Final Grades of Spurs Transactions During Trade Deadline Season

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/final-grades-spurs-trade-deadline-transactions/

[K...]

we can use this thread to debate how much the spurs were set bback by the overleverage of top teams. while late first round picks aren't much better then good seconds, the spurs probably lost two or three by teams being so overspent.

[DPG21920]

Nice write up - I agree with most of the grades but I would give Richardson deal a C with potential for B+ if things go well there…

I love the other trades, especially the Jak deal and I more so love the fact Sa is clearly locked in on their vision, doing smart things to stay consistent there vs waffling in between and they are now a very active trade partner which was a huge part of the FO missing for a long while.

I just feel pretty disappointed they let so much cap space go to waste; they did well overall and having the cap space left doesn’t harm them but it feels like a real missed opportunity and have to wonder if they learned a lesson regarding waiting too long vs taking deals maybe in off season since bird in hand you know?

[CGD]

^ agree. As a fan i want to understand the theory of the case as it were. The front office is finally picking a path.

I’d be frustrated if I were routing for a WAS, CHA, or even HOU right now precisely because they have no clue what their strategy for success is.

[John B]

Nice write up - I agree with most of the grades but I would give Richardson deal a C with potential for B+ if things go well there…

I love the other trades, especially the Jak deal and I more so love the fact Sa is clearly locked in on their vision, doing smart things to stay consistent there vs waffling in between and they are now a very active trade partner which was a huge part of the FO missing for a long while.

I just feel pretty disappointed they let so much cap space go to waste; they did well overall and having the cap space left doesn’t harm them but it feels like a real missed opportunity and have to wonder if they learned a lesson regarding waiting too long vs taking deals maybe in off season since bird in hand you know?

Agree. I thought the Spurs waited too long. ST was talking about maybe getting at least 1 unprotected FRP for acquiring Westbrook? That boat sailed and the Spurs was left with huge cap space? Maybe absorbing Simmons for 1-2 unprotected??? Whatever, but nothing. Again PATFO seems to make solid moves, but nothing really sexy to warrant an A. Overall grade? B-

[KingKev]

Agree. I thought the Spurs waited too long. ST was talking about maybe getting at least 1 unprotected FRP for acquiring Westbrook? That boat sailed and the Spurs was left with huge cap space? Maybe absorbing Simmons for 1-2 unprotected??? Whatever, but nothing. Again PATFO seems to make solid moves, but nothing really sexy to warrant an A. Overall grade? B-

None of this was ever on the table. You weren’t high on Jak but were also disappointed we couldn’t get two unprotected FRPs for him. C’mon man.

[CGD]

^ in my book, it’s hard for me to give a grade less than an A- for the totality of the moves of the 2022-23 season (starting with Murray).

Setting aside the blockbuster moves at the deadline, who would we say has done better under the circumstances? Maybe Utah, but they had more pieces to play with at the start than the Spurs did. My only quibble is not using the capspace more aggressively, but now we are seeing that was mostly a function of the stingy marketplace and it’s SRP-paloozaness.

The final analysis will come draft time.

[Seventyniner]

Will the Spurs be able to use their cap space on draft night to absorb contract(s) that extend into next season? If so, them not having used it at the trade deadline is more defensible.

[DPG21920]

Agree. I thought the Spurs waited too long. ST was talking about maybe getting at least 1 unprotected FRP for acquiring Westbrook? That boat sailed and the Spurs was left with huge cap space? Maybe absorbing Simmons for 1-2 unprotected??? Whatever, but nothing. Again PATFO seems to make solid moves, but nothing really sexy to warrant an A. Overall grade? B-

I think we have to compartmentalize some; the most important thing by far was moving Jak and they did a great job in that deal and maximized his value given the context of situation. So that alone warrants and overall A.

Ya, I dont love the Richardson deal but it was fine and hopefully improves with some time. I dont love they leave proverbial meat on the bone; but it doesn’t “hurt” them it just doesn’t maximize asset management.

So definitely see some areas for improvement but overall? They are nailing the most important things and that should weight way more heavily than anything else. They crushed the Murray deal. They did really well with White to give themselves a shot at a real amazing return there. Jak was a slamming deal. DeRozan deal looks more and more solid.

Those things matter more than the rest and its a nice balance of real tangible assets along with some high upside swing (like the BOS swap)

[DPG21920]

Will the Spurs be able to use their cap space on draft night to absorb contract(s) that extend into next season? If so, them not having used it at the trade deadline is more defensible.

Yes - but they could have done both. Where the took on some people and still have tons of cap space next year to keep doing that. It looks like they indeed passed on deals for WB pre season and that appears to have been a misstep or miscalculation on their end on their ability to do better or up values with time. Doug, Josh etc..didn’t up their values at all and Spurs were left standing when the music stopped to a degree.

No harm no foul, just not “optimal”

[scott]

I was able to Force-Trade McBuckets for 3 unprotected FRPs on 2k, so I give the Spurs an F- for this deadline.

[CGD]

Technically yes, but I don’t see it being a real factor because they have all the capspace again next year. Like if the spurs wanted to do a Ben Simmons trade, they could just do it next year. Would probably be different if we were in “buy” mode but that’s unlikely unless maybe the get Wemby.

[scott]

In all seriousness, I too would have liked to see us get some assets into that cap space, but I'm glad we didn't force it by trying to absorb someone like Simmons (without a significant haul that frankly I don't think BKY wants to pay, they just got draft capital back, they can't afford to lose it salary dumps) with multiple years left.

If the Spurs land a Wemby or some other franchise altering player, we're going to want that cap space to quickly build a contender around him by using some of our warchest. The 1989 Model.

[DPG21920]

Technically yes, but I don’t see it being a real factor because they have all the capspace again next year. Like if the spurs wanted to do a Ben Simmons trade, they could just do it next year. Would probably be different if we were in “buy” mode but that’s unlikely unless maybe the get Wemby.

Agree - there was just “free” money this year with the floor but again its not an “issue” just observation

[KingKev]

In all seriousness, I too would have liked to see us get some assets into that cap space, but I'm glad we didn't force it by trying to absorb someone like Simmons (without a significant haul that frankly I don't think BKY wants to pay, they just got draft capital back, they can't afford to lose it salary dumps) with multiple years left.

If the Spurs land a Wemby or some other franchise altering player, we're going to want that cap space to quickly build a contender around him by using some of our warchest. The 1989 Model.

Yeah this is will be an interesting dynamic if we are fortunate to land Wemby because he alone won’t make much a difference to this current roster but now you have a reason to start building quickly. Personally I’d rather they keep a slow rebuild even if they land him and get a few more lottery picks.

[John B]

None of this was ever on the table. You weren’t high on Jak but were also disappointed we couldn’t get two unprotected FRPs for him. C’mon man.

That doesn't mean I don't want 2 FRP's for Jak :lol Hey you guys said Jak's top 10 Center. But besides that, huge cap, plenty of movable assets... getting 1 protected FRP and 5 SRP's and we got Graham's 15 mil salary, an injured Birch with his 7 million. I take it back C- :lol

[scott]

Yeah this is will be an interesting dynamic if we are fortunate to land Wemby because he alone won’t make much a difference to this current roster but now you have a reason to start building quickly. Personally I’d rather they keep a slow rebuild even if they land him and get a few more lottery picks.

I see the appeal in that but that is where I think you start playing with fire on guys wanting out. Most NBA players probably don't really care where they play home guys. They want to be rich and they want to compete. Those are the two biggest motivating factors, not whether or not San Antonio has nightclubs. Don't want to fuck around and find yourself in a Charlotte situation.

[slick'81]

Hopefully that poodle pick is not in the 20's

[Chinook]

Fans make up fake trades where the Spurs get good picks for taking Westbrook or Robinson and then hold it against the Spurs when that doesn't happen. The same has already happened with Simmons. Cap space and salary slots don't work that way in the modern NBA. They got a good haul for Poeltl, and they turned Richardson (who himself was just salary ballast from a previous year) into a trade token and another year of Richardson's salary slot. Josh didn't have a ton of value. He'd be traded for basically nothing multiple times. This is arguably the most he's gotten since the Butler trade. Graham made sense as a buy-low candidate. It's arguably better that he's not expiring than if he is, because the Spurs have a player who currently fills a need without having to offer a long-term deal to a player this summer. Vet PG is now no longer a need.

I don't know if there is a team that did better during the deadline. You can say Dallas and Phoenix win just by getting superstars. The Nets got a haul but also lost two stars. Everyone else was just part of the bundles-of-seconds sweepstakes. The Spurs definitely hover above that group and are probably just above Portland who got a similar haul on the surface but with them getting worse picks when you dig into it.

[John B]

I see the appeal in that but that is where I think you start playing with fire on guys wanting out. Most NBA players probably don't really care where they play home guys. They want to be rich and they want to compete. Those are the two biggest motivating factors, not whether or not San Antonio has nightclubs. Don't want to fuck around and find yourself in a Charlotte situation.

Another losing season and Kelldon is gone. That giddy kid is not even smiling. Then Vassell. It will be a brutal downward spiral and finally you're Sacramento

[offset formation]

F.

No problem with any of the trades, probably should have been done sooner. F because they let it be known they wanted so much more than they actually got. Now they're marked as a team that will completely fold for half their asking price. Not good for future. So, again I say...F.

[GAustex]

That was a great read
Thanks

[DPG21920]

Fans make up fake trades where the Spurs get good picks for taking Westbrook or Robinson and then hold it against the Spurs when that doesn't happen. The same has already happened with Simmons. Cap space and salary slots don't work that way in the modern NBA. They got a good haul for Poeltl, and they turned Richardson (who himself was just salary ballast from a previous year) into a trade token and another year of Richardson's salary slot. Josh didn't have a ton of value. He'd be traded for basically nothing multiple times. This is arguably the most he's gotten since the Butler trade. Graham made sense as a buy-low candidate. It's arguably better that he's not expiring than if he is, because the Spurs have a player who currently fills a need without having to offer a long-term deal to a player this summer. Vet PG is now no longer a need.

I don't know if there is a team that did better during the deadline. You can say Dallas and Phoenix win just by getting superstars. The Nets got a haul but also lost two stars. Everyone else was just part of the bundles-of-seconds sweepstakes. The Spurs definitely hover above that group and are probably just above Portland who got a similar haul on the surface but with them getting worse picks when you dig into it.

The WB deal was not made up; timvp confirmed that was a real offer.

[MultiTroll]

Meh after all the spouting about 2 first rounders for Poodle and a 1 first rounder for Richardson......

The league called the Spurs bluff and they settled.

That's it. Could turn out OK.

Would like to know if any team did offer 2 1st for Poodle earlier and Spurs held out.

Grahams salary? Not good. Seriously doubt he starts draining 3'd beyond his career 35% and at 6'1" he's a liability on D. Good unload by New Orleans.
Retard almost cost us the Pistons game.

[Chinook]

The WB deal was not made up; timvp confirmed that was a real offer.

The Westbrook trade WAS made up. LJ saying the Spurs and Lakers talked isn't the same thing as the Lakers offering an unprotected pick to turn Westbrook into McD and Richardson without Poeltl. LAL got a much better deal than that. It's much more likely they weren't offering much or were asking for a lot more than you might assume. Earlier in the year, the Lakers were even more Kyrie-hopeful than they are now. They were not going to make a deal that borked their 2023 cap AND give up value for role-players any more than the Spurs were going to lock themselves out of using all of their cap space for a one-and-done moderately protected first. The two sides were really not good fits, but some posters wanted them to fit anyway.

[Raven]

meh, I thought the average is a c- with the poeltl operation being a flat F. Can't get how a team that has to buy players to get over the minimum threshold can't pay a good center, and then perhaps trade him the year after or whatever.

[scott]

F.

No problem with any of the trades, probably should have been done sooner. F because they let it be known they wanted so much more than they actually got. Now they're marked as a team that will completely fold for half their asking price. Not good for future. So, again I say...F.

You're still on this stupid shit? Have you never negotiated anything in your life? :lol

[Mr. Body]

Oh Jesus, are we going to start with DPG's weird bullshit again?

[Mr. Body]

Overall they did really great. Sure, Poeltl will have pulled better in a better market, but they did great with the protections. I'm not bothered by the use of cap space. You fish or cut bait -- which means you can fish later, and the offseason is where they can try again.

It sounds like Bassey gets some of the pot of money all the players will get for going up to the floor? That's a nifty bit of free negotiation. I like him and think cementing him for a few years is smart.

[DPG21920]

The Westbrook trade WAS made up. LJ saying the Spurs and Lakers talked isn't the same thing as the Lakers offering an unprotected pick to turn Westbrook into McD and Richardson without Poeltl. LAL got a much better deal than that. It's much more likely they weren't offering much or were asking for a lot more than you might assume. Earlier in the year, the Lakers were even more Kyrie-hopeful than they are now. They were not going to make a deal that borked their 2023 cap AND give up value for role-players any more than the Spurs were going to lock themselves out of using all of their cap space for a one-and-done moderately protected first. The two sides were really not good fits, but some posters wanted them to fit anyway.

Well, all I can say is and timvp can confirm, there seems to have been a real offer. Don’t know if it was an unprotected first but even if it was protected thats still way better than Richardson deal IMO.

I wrote at the time SA had little incentive to keep Richardson vs trade him in off season. It was something that was somewhat apparent early

[DPG21920]

Oh Jesus, are we going to start with DPG's weird bullshit again?

What’s weird? It’s pertinent to the thread. If you dont like it, keep it moving.

[Mr. Body]

Great, we're going to get more of how we should have traded five players and cap space for a draft pick.

[DPG21920]

Great, we're going to get more of how we should have traded five players and cap space for a draft pick.

You realize that my trade setup is basically exactly what UTA did so why are you acting like it was some outlandish thing lol? But for you, so you stop crying about people posting in a thread on subject, I will stop posting in this thread.

Just for you. Don’t say I never did anything for you ok. Please regale us with your entertaining and beautiful basketball mind and always unique insights.

[spurs10]

Nice write up - I agree with most of the grades but I would give Richardson deal a C with potential for B+ if things go well there…

I love the other trades, especially the Jak deal and I more so love the fact Sa is clearly locked in on their vision, doing smart things to stay consistent there vs waffling in between and they are now a very active trade partner which was a huge part of the FO missing for a long while.

I just feel pretty disappointed they let so much cap space go to waste; they did well overall and having the cap space left doesn’t harm them but it feels like a real missed opportunity and have to wonder if they learned a lesson regarding waiting too long vs taking deals maybe in off season since bird in hand you know? By going well are you talking about Graham or the four SRPs turning into something?

[exstatic]

Another losing season and Kelldon is gone. That giddy kid is not even smiling. Then Vassell. It will be a brutal downward spiral and finally you're Sacramento

He’s extended for four years that start next season. He’s going nowhere any time soon.

[DPG21920]

By going well are you talking about Graham or the four SRPs turning into something?

Graham turning into something…Im ok with the trade just dont think it was anything special. 4 2RP for Josh is good, but dont love Graham but if he turns into a + asset? Then it’s definitely a B+.

C to B- for me as of now

[Mr. Body]

Keldon will probably be moved before long. He's doing the good soldier thing but he's not a cornerstone and would be better somewhere else. Vassell, I'm not sure. We need to actually see him play.

[Seventyniner]

Technically yes, but I don’t see it being a real factor because they have all the capspace again next year. Like if the spurs wanted to do a Ben Simmons trade, they could just do it next year. Would probably be different if we were in “buy” mode but that’s unlikely unless maybe the get Wemby.

What I was trying to establish was whether all of this season's cap space will go to waste. It looks like there will be one last chance to use it, though I don't know how common it is for a team to carry that much cap space into a draft and absorb a bad contract in return for draft capital.

The point would be to find a team who wants to dump salary at the last minute, most likely to reduce or eliminate the luxury tax bill just before it comes due in July. From what I can tell only the Nuggets ($14.2M) and Nets ($12.4M) are into the tax by a low enough amount for the Spurs to get them out single-handedly. But getting a share of the over $600M in tax expected to be paid by all taxpayers combined (a non-tax team's share will be around $30M if nothing changes), rather than having to forego that $30M and pay the tax, could be worth a first.

Denver's outgoing firsts have so many protections and conditions that I don't know if they can trade any firsts on draft night (maybe their 2030, or 2029 with similar rolling protections as their 2027 outgoing first). Brooklyn has a bunch of extras from Phoenix; perhaps the 2023 Suns pick could be in play if the Suns finish the season hot and that pick is in the mid to late 20s.

I'm just brainstorming here.

[offset formation]

You're still on this stupid shit? Have you never negotiated anything in your life? :lol

Yeah and I learned from doing so at an early age, letting it be public what I want beforehand , then caving at the last minute portends poorly for the next negotiation. In fact I was an expert at this by the age of 8.

[Seventyniner]

Keldon will probably be moved before long. He's doing the good soldier thing but he's not a cornerstone and would be better somewhere else. Vassell, I'm not sure. We need to actually see him play.

He's far from untouchable. Given how friendly his contract is, he could possibly fetch more than Derrick White did. Though White is a far better fit as a role player on a contender.

[CGD]

Keldon will probably be moved before long. He's doing the good soldier thing but he's not a cornerstone and would be better somewhere else. Vassell, I'm not sure. We need to actually see him play.

Just watch, we’ll trade him back to Toronto too.

[Mr. Body]

He's far from untouchable. Given how friendly his contract is, he could possibly fetch more than Derrick White did. Though White is a far better fit as a role player on a contender.

Yeah, that's the thing. White is superior in a few departments that are really key -- and Boston sucked at. Keldon could be great as a third or fourth guy on a playoff team, but as we've seen no one has assets.

[spurs10]

Graham turning into something…Im ok with the trade just dont think it was anything special. 4 2RP for Josh is good, but dont love Graham but if he turns into a + asset? Then it’s definitely a B+.

C to B- for me as of now Understand.

[John B]

He’s extended for four years that start next season. He’s going nowhere any time soon.

You know how PATFO cater to their players. I just hope they get 2 FRP’s unprotected for him

[benefactor]

You realize that my trade setup is basically exactly what UTA did so why are you acting like it was some outlandish thing lol? But for you, so you stop crying about people posting in a thread on subject, I will stop posting in this thread.

Just for you. Don’t say I never did anything for you ok. Please regale us with your entertaining and beautiful basketball mind and always unique insights.
He is next level stupid. I mean how in the fuck can you be here this long and still have zero insight into how anything works?

[Mr. Body]

You realize that my trade setup is basically exactly what UTA did so why are you acting like it was some outlandish thing lol? But for you, so you stop crying about people posting in a thread on subject, I will stop posting in this thread.

Just for you. Don’t say I never did anything for you ok. Please regale us with your entertaining and beautiful basketball mind and always unique insights.

Your trade scenario was consistently jamming more and more players into some idiot trade for a single pick. We got more by just trading two of those players in separate trades. Then you started screaming that nobody understood you.

Utah lost that trade pretty badly, btw.

[Mr. Body]

He is next level stupid. I mean how in the fuck can you be here this long and still have zero insight into how anything works?

Lol, taking DPG's side on this one. Ouch.

[exstatic]

What I was trying to establish was whether all of this season's cap space will go to waste. It looks like there will be one last chance to use it, though I don't know how common it is for a team to carry that much cap space into a draft and absorb a bad contract in return for draft capital.

The point would be to find a team who wants to dump salary at the last minute, most likely to reduce or eliminate the luxury tax bill just before it comes due in July. From what I can tell only the Nuggets ($14.2M) and Nets ($12.4M) are into the tax by a low enough amount for the Spurs to get them out single-handedly. But getting a share of the over $600M in tax expected to be paid by all taxpayers combined (a non-tax team's share will be around $30M if nothing changes), rather than having to forego that $30M and pay the tax, could be worth a first.

Denver's outgoing firsts have so many protections and conditions that I don't know if they can trade any firsts on draft night (maybe their 2030, or 2029 with similar rolling protections as their 2027 outgoing first). Brooklyn has a bunch of extras from Phoenix; perhaps the 2023 Suns pick could be in play if the Suns finish the season hot and that pick is in the mid to late 20s.

I'm just brainstorming here.

We can trade at the draft, but we can’t take ending contracts to lighten anyone’s tax load. That ship sailed at the deadline, so we’d just be getting a jump on next year’s cap space by taking extended salary.

[exstatic]

Your trade scenario was consistently jamming more and more players into some idiot trade for a single pick. We got more by just trading two of those players in separate trades. Then you started screaming that nobody understood you.

Utah lost that trade pretty badly, btw.
Yeah, that Laker one shot pick is pretty crappy. The pick we got from TOR is much better, because we get three shots at a 1-6 protected pick, versus one shot at a 1-4.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, that Laker one shot pick is pretty crappy. The pick we got from TOR is much better, because we get three shots at a 1-6 protected pick, versus one shot at a 1-4.

I want to leave aside DPG's nonsense aside. He's fine otherwise.

Watching the LAL-GSW right now. Ainge gave the Lakers two starters, gave away a good PG in Conley, and got nothing but a distant FRP years from now after the Lakers will probably have reloaded. I can only guess he wanted to dump players?

[offset formation]

I want to leave aside DPG's nonsense aside. He's fine otherwise.

Watching the LAL-GSW right now. Ainge gave the Lakers two starters, gave away a good PG in Conley, and got nothing but a distant FRP years from now after the Lakers will probably have reloaded. I can only guess he wanted to dump players?

Just another example of the universe always putting the Fakers on 3rd base after their own incompetence should have struck them out. I'll never get over that BS trade of Pau to the Lakers for nothing practically other than his brother. All signed sealed and delivered by the Logo and Laker legend.

Fuck the Lakers all tge way down to their entitled cores

[Sugus]

Yeah and I learned from doing so at an early age, letting it be public what I want beforehand , then caving at the last minute portends poorly for the next negotiation. In fact I was an expert at this by the age of 8.

It can't be the first time you've come across a team with valuable goods setting an initial, high bidding price. It just can't, I don't believe it.

Enlighten us: which teams, specifically and demonstrably, have been "bitten in the ass" by having "folded" on earlier trades, in later years? Any specific examples at all? Maybe that's just the way business is done through the league, and trades don't follow a hive-minded principle and are independent of each other?

I personally have a number of examples that go against your point, of teams who made mind-bogglingly bad trades that were negotiated publicly, too, and then followed that up with years of being a normal, non-"abused" trade partner. But let's hear your examples first.

[DPG21920]

I want to leave aside DPG's nonsense aside. He's fine otherwise.

Watching the LAL-GSW right now. Ainge gave the Lakers two starters, gave away a good PG in Conley, and got nothing but a distant FRP years from now after the Lakers will probably have reloaded. I can only guess he wanted to dump players?

Lmao - whether you like it or not, a real nba team did a trade VERY SIMILAR to the one I proposed. So personal opinion aside, calling it non-sense is just stupid. It legit happened. So you can argue that it was a dumb trade by UTA to get a shot a pick number 5 for role players and taking on shedding 15M in salary next season, but you cannot argue it’s as non-sense.

[Chinook]

Lmao - whether you like it or not, a real nba team did a trade VERY SIMILAR to the one I proposed. So personal opinion aside, calling it non-sense is just stupid. It legit happened. So you can argue that it was a dumb trade by UTA to get a shot a pick number 5 for role players and taking on shedding 15M in salary next season, but you cannot argue it’s as non-sense.

It's not that similar of a trade. Beasley is good money on his deal, and Vanderbilt is a coveted prospect. While Conley isn't great money, the Jazz also paid to turn his salary into Russell. I don't think the Spurs would've beaten that offer without something more valuable going out. It's hard to see anything but Poeltl fitting that bill.

[DPG21920]

It's not that similar of a trade. Beasley is good money on his deal, and Vanderbilt is a coveted prospect. While Conley isn't great money, the Jazz also paid to turn his salary into Russell. I don't think the Spurs would've beaten that offer without something more valuable going out. It's hard to see anything but Poeltl fitting that bill.

It’s similar in the context of volume and quality of players - Collins/Doug/Richardson (and I said Tre if needed/wanted) for Russ + 1 first. People were mad I was sending out “3 to 4 good players for one terrible contract!”

Its almost identical to what UTA did, both in quality of players (if you are arguing UTA players are better than SA then it makes their argument WEAKER that my idea was outlandish for SA) and how they saved money by unloading Conley where we would have saved exact same money in Doug.

It’s nearly identical in this regard compared to these yahoos crying about my idea being far fetched. Has nothing to do with regards to SA being able to beat UTA deal. They thought SA was giving up too much in my deal and that no one would do something like that.

Forgetting whether or not SA could have beaten UTA, functionally in principle:

UTA Sending: Mike Conley + Vanderbilt + Beasley and getting 1 LA first while saving 15M off of Conley for only taking on WB money this year is nearly identical in structure to

SA Sending: Collins + Doug + Josh Richardson (and I was willing to do Tre too) and getting 1 LA first while saving 15M off Doug for only taking on WB money this year

It’s the same exact type of deal/structure and logic that I proposed that Body cries over still today :cry

Doesn’t matter if people think SA deal I hypothetically proposed was better than UTA offer or if UTA got fleeced; whole point was it was a SPOT ON structure and not at all unreasonable from a SA perspective

[Chinook]

It’s similar in the context of volume and quality of players - Collins/Doug/Richardson (and I said Tre if needed/wanted) for Russ + 1 first. People were mad I was sending out “3 to 4 good players for one terrible contract!”

Its almost identical to what UTA did, both in quality of players (if you are arguing UTA players are better than SA then it makes their argument WEAKER that my idea was outlandish for SA) and how they saved money by unloading Conley where we would have saved exact same money in Doug.

It’s nearly identical in this regard compared to these yahoos crying about my idea being far fetched. Has nothing to do with regards to SA being able to beat UTA deal. They thought SA was giving up too much in my deal and that no one would do something like that.

I had no issues with that deal if the Spurs wanted to trade those guys. They might covet Collins a lot, and he's playing well. I don't think it matters, because it's not the same as what LAL got. My issue isn't with that as much as it is with the deals with unprotected picks being pitched and then being used as a sign the Spurs are getting destroyed in trades.

Assuming the Spurs could do the LAL trade, I think it's justifiable that they didn't while I also think I would've done it personally. It's close. So long as we stay away from things like the suggested Simmons trade, we're probably on a good discussion track.

[DPG21920]

I had no issues with that deal if the Spurs wanted to trade those guys. They might covet Collins a lot, and he's playing well. I don't think it matters, because it's not the same as what LAL got. My issue isn't with that as much as it is with the deals with unprotected picks being pitched and then being used as a sign the Spurs are getting destroyed in trades.

Assuming the Spurs could do the LAL trade, I think it's justifiable that they didn't while I also think I would've done it personally. It's close. So long as we stay away from things like the suggested Simmons trade, we're probably on a good discussion track.

Sure I get that - it’s just all hypotheticals and paths. There’s not only one good trade to be made. I did value the Lakers pick more than about any other for my own reasons, but not getting it doesn’t mean it’s a failure if they do other deals that net similar or better.

I’m fine with a Simmons deal seeing that they have Khem + Graham honestly. Next year likely isn’t using cap space again and under the assumption that absorbing Simmons mostly would net the best quality assets in return? I’m ok with his “extra” year past Doug/Khem/Graham because next year doesn’t seem to “really” count from a Spurs perspective anyways it seems.

It debatable for sure - I’m not 100% sold myself, but BKY does have some players and picks now that would make me seriously listen I would say.

[Chinook]

Sure I get that - it’s just all hypotheticals and paths. There’s not only one good trade to be made. I did value the Lakers pick more than about any other for my own reasons, but not getting it doesn’t mean it’s a failure if they do other deals that net similar or better.

I’m fine with a Simmons deal seeing that they have Khem + Graham honestly. Next year likely isn’t using cap space again and under the assumption that absorbing Simmons mostly would net the best quality assets in return? I’m ok with his “extra” year past Doug/Khem/Graham because next year doesn’t seem to “really” count from a Spurs perspective anyways it seems.

It debatable for sure - I’m not 100% sold myself, but BKY does have some players and picks now that would make me seriously listen I would say.

I think you misunderstand. The Simmons deal isn't (in my opinion) realistic enough to discuss, because no one's trading unprotected picks to dump salary anymore. The Spurs aren't going to get that, and fans projecting it and making that a sign of a good trade are being unrealistic.

By far Brooklyn's best play in my mind is for them to try to rehab Simmons to at least the point that he's buoyant ballast. They have a ton of future value on their team and can afford to be patient. If the Spurs should be looking opportunistically at the Nets at all, it should be to try to snatch Cam Johnson from them in free agency. I still really like him in a rotation with Keldon and Sochan.

[DPG21920]

I think you misunderstand. The Simmons deal isn't (in my opinion) realistic enough to discuss, because no one's trading unprotected picks to dump salary anymore. The Spurs aren't going to get that, and fans projecting it and making that a sign of a good trade are being unrealistic.

By far Brooklyn's best play in my mind is for them to try to rehab Simmons to at least the point that he's buoyant ballast. They have a ton of future value on their team and can afford to be patient. If the Spurs should be looking opportunistically at the Nets at all, it should be to try to snatch Cam Johnson from them in free agency. I still really like him in a rotation with Keldon and Sochan.

I get that (the Cam part and agree - I am fine with SA adding talent they think is legit and good value and young). But I disagree on the Simmons part some; I do see what you are saying and I don’t disagree that the path you think makes sense in fact makes sense.

But BKY doesn’t own their own picks and have no incentive to tank. The trades they made seem to infer they want to compete and having a 40M albatross that seemingly ruins the vibe and doesn’t try hard can be seen as bad (especially if they want to keep Cam etc..). They can get a complete get out of jail free card and maybe meaningfully enough cap space to sign actual talent to be a playoff team for 1 unprotected pick and maybe some 2nds?

Not sure SA would do that and ownership pay all that money for a pick, but I do think BKY would need to strongly consider it if that was the price (and maybe with SA left dancing alone this deadline they will realize that even getting that one truly unprotected first is very valuable and SA is definitely in a better spot to rehab Simmons too). But again, that is just my perspective on that.

[KingKev]

I get that (the Cam part and agree - I am fine with SA adding talent they think is legit and good value and young). But I disagree on the Simmons part some; I do see what you are saying and I don’t disagree that the path you think makes sense in fact makes sense.

But BKY doesn’t own their own picks and have no incentive to tank. The trades they made seem to infer they want to compete and having a 40M albatross that seemingly ruins the vibe and doesn’t try hard can be seen as bad (especially if they want to keep Cam etc..). They can get a complete get out of jail free card and maybe meaningfully enough cap space to sign actual talent to be a playoff team for 1 unprotected pick and maybe some 2nds?

Not sure SA would do that and ownership pay all that money for a pick, but I do think BKY would need to strongly consider it if that was the price (and maybe with SA left dancing alone this deadline they will realize that even getting that one truly unprotected first is very valuable and SA is definitely in a better spot to rehab Simmons too). But again, that is just my perspective on that.

Did you look at their cap space before you went off on another 3 paragraph rant? Paying an unprotected FRP to get off of Simmons does nothing for them in 23-24.

[DPG21920]

Did you look at their cap space before you went off on another 3 paragraph rant? Paying an unprotected FRP to get off of Simmons does nothing for them in 23-24.

Yes. Did you smart guy?

[KingKev]

Yes. Did you smart guy?

Well paying to move Simmons really only helps them come 2024-25 if they decide to blow it up and focus on Cam Thomas and Bridges.

You were terribly wrong regarding KD and you are likely just as wrong here. Hold your L.

[MultiTroll]

Dougie McDermott for a 1st.
:lmao

[DPG21920]

Well paying to move Simmons really only helps them come 2024-25 if they decide to blow it up and focus on Cam Thomas and Bridges.

You were terribly wrong regarding KD and you are likely just as wrong here. Hold your L.

Not falling for this lol