The Point Guard Position

[Mr. Body]

More I think about it, I see PG as the biggest concern for the team going forward. The team's three needs are: shooting, supporting bigs, point guard.

I want another big, but this can be a stop-gap; we can get these guys in future drafts. We need shooting, but have some already on the team.

The big issue is point guard.

1. Maybe the player(s) are already on the team. I'm a big fan of Tre Jones, but don't think his size and shooting suggest a long-term championship starter. Although Sochan is a good ballhandler, I don't see him as a solution there, either. We can go a year or so without the position totally defined, but not forever.

2. Acquire a free agent veteran. This also does not seem like a long-term solution, but could help for a few years depending on who the player is. Who this player might be is less certain. There doesn't seem to be anyone on the market and the FA crop is bare.

3. Draft a point guard. I know there are adherents to paying a king's ransom for Scoot or even Amen Thompson. I don't think either is a solution at all. One is a shooty combo guard, the other isn't just a long way from NBA stature, he's not even a point guard. They're both going to be expensive.

To me, the draft is where we will have to find a point guard. I can see a lineup where Vassell might guard up a position, where Sochan is primary ballhandler, but think he could get in trouble. Both get in trouble, actually. I'm not keen on running with Jones forever, although we absolutely have to lock him up.

So... what do we do? To me, and this has bopped around other threads, we need to go hard at one of the point guards in this draft. While they're not perfect, they all have good defensive potential. To me, we need ways of slowing down opposing guards.

1. Good point guards may be available in later drafts, but having defensive ones - with actual offensive skills - seems pretty rare.
2. The point takes time to learn. It might be better to get one on board immediately with Wembanyama. We can still try for another one later if needed.

To me, there are four FRP-level point guards in this draft I've concentrated on. I'm going to include a fifth, as he's come up elsewhere, and a sixth.

Anthony Black. A tall freshman with good body strength, perhaps underwhelming athleticism. Questionable, but not totally horrible jumpshot that is slow and flatfooted. A disruptive defender and heady passer. A touch turnover prone. Gets to the line a lot.

Cason Wallace. Advanced stats are almost all best in this crop, and he has the 'Kentucky guard' pedigree. A good shooter with decent volume at range and heady defender with a strong body. But he has similarities to TyTy Washington, who wasn't great last year.

Kobe Bufkin. Skinny, but tough. Hit a really high rate attacking the rim, popped in a dislocated finger and ripped off eight points once. A jack-of-all-trades type, though. Good defender, but maybe not a stopper, and maybe not explicitly a point guard.

Jalen Hood-Schifino. Was not expected to be draft ready after his freshman year, but may now go in the top 20. Erratic production and his advanced stats really aren't good. Some games, very dominant, others, not as much. Good size and tools, good vision.

Nick Smith, Jr. A rough year for a highly regarded player coming into the year. Derailed by injury, never quite got back into things. A warrior, though, determined to play rather than sit out. Skinny, could be a great slasher and scorer, not sure he's a point guard.

Marcus Sasser. An outlier, as he's almost 23. Is only Scoot size at 6'2", but his advanced stats are terrific, he shot over eight threes a game for Houston, twice as many as anyone else on this list. Unlike any of the others, he should be available in the late first, early second round.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=anthony-black--kobe-bufkin--jalen-hood-schifino--marcus-sasser--cason-wallace

[Mr. Body]

The question, of course, is what it would take to get some of these players. I sort of ranked them according to where I think they might get picked. Actually, I think Bufkin might go after JHS. Those three players -- JHS, NSJ, and Bufkin -- I'm totally unsure about.

Cason and Black might go 8 and 9 to Washington and Utah and would take aggression to move to get. The others are more up in the air.

[BacktoBasics]

Black and Cason particularly Black are the only guys who I see as long term solutions. Not to say any of the others couldn’t develop but just going off of what we see today. Black is a perfect fit. I don’t even know what it’s called but his area of “elitism” is controlling the flow of the game without even having the ball in his hands. Great off ball player. Hustler. Looks like he’s got the kind of personality that would gel with our culture and current group.

This isn’t something that we need to rush either. We have a lot of draft capital and a good enough team to buy us time without forcing the issue. I’m less interested in going all in on a trade for a big name. We’d be smart to let this issue resolve itself organically or with prudent deals.

[Extra Stout]

I think the goal is to have the best possible team for the 2025-26 season. That’s when Wembanyama would really start to come into his own.

So when evaluating point guards, I think you have to expand the pool to players who could be available not just this year, but also 2024 and 2025. Over that time horizon, the obvious play is to draft a point guard next year or the following year.

They’d really have to think one of the guys on your list is all that in order to justify making a move any more aggressive than one into the late first round.

Tre Jones is nothing to sneeze it. He has his limitations, but last year he led the team in win shares.

[Mr. Body]

I think the goal is to have the best possible team for the 2025-26 season. That’s when Wembanyama would really start to come into his own.

So when evaluating point guards, I think you have to expand the pool to players who could be available not just this year, but also 2024 and 2025. Over that time horizon, the obvious play is to draft a point guard next year or the following year.

They’d really have to think one of the guys on your list is all that in order to justify making a move any more aggressive than one into the late first round.

Tre Jones is nothing to sneeze it. He has his limitations, but last year he led the team in win shares.

So who are those players? Part of the point I'm making is that draft point guards are often not good defenders. Or, if they are, they can't do anything else. We have 2-3 options who are actually good at both. I'll need to dig back to see if this has ever been the case.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, so gazing over the drafts back to 2018, the top guard prospects, or at least the ones who got pulled, are players like:

Jalen Suggs
Killian Hayes
Darius Garland
Jaden Ivey
Tyrese Haliburton
etc.

Those were picks scattered around. Haliburton was a miss by almost every team. Great player, obviously, but you can't expect those misses again. Also, not a good defender. Ivey was an expensive pick, not a good defender. Killian Hayes, good defender, good distributor, awful shooter.

It's rare enough to find prospects that are solid defenders and have good skills on the other side. It's incredibly rare to find, say, two or three of them.

You find an Acevedo type later on, but I don't know if that can be counted on.

[RC_Drunkford]

If you ask me besides being a good shooter and defense we need somebody who is quick. We‘re trying to play a fast pace game and need speed at the point

[mo7888]

More I think about it, I see PG as the biggest concern for the team going forward. The team's three needs are: shooting, supporting bigs, point guard.

I want another big, but this can be a stop-gap; we can get these guys in future drafts. We need shooting, but have some already on the team.

The big issue is point guard.

1. Maybe the player(s) are already on the team. I'm a big fan of Tre Jones, but don't think his size and shooting suggest a long-term championship starter. Although Sochan is a good ballhandler, I don't see him as a solution there, either. We can go a year or so without the position totally defined, but not forever.

2. Acquire a free agent veteran. This also does not seem like a long-term solution, but could help for a few years depending on who the player is. Who this player might be is less certain. There doesn't seem to be anyone on the market and the FA crop is bare.

3. Draft a point guard. I know there are adherents to paying a king's ransom for Scoot or even Amen Thompson. I don't think either is a solution at all. One is a shooty combo guard, the other isn't just a long way from NBA stature, he's not even a point guard. They're both going to be expensive.

To me, the draft is where we will have to find a point guard. I can see a lineup where Vassell might guard up a position, where Sochan is primary ballhandler, but think he could get in trouble. Both get in trouble, actually. I'm not keen on running with Jones forever, although we absolutely have to lock him up.

So... what do we do? To me, and this has bopped around other threads, we need to go hard at one of the point guards in this draft. While they're not perfect, they all have good defensive potential. To me, we need ways of slowing down opposing guards.

1. Good point guards may be available in later drafts, but having defensive ones - with actual offensive skills - seems pretty rare.
2. The point takes time to learn. It might be better to get one on board immediately with Wembanyama. We can still try for another one later if needed.

To me, there are four FRP-level point guards in this draft I've concentrated on. I'm going to include a fifth, as he's come up elsewhere, and a sixth.

Anthony Black. A tall freshman with good body strength, perhaps underwhelming athleticism. Questionable, but not totally horrible jumpshot that is slow and flatfooted. A disruptive defender and heady passer. A touch turnover prone. Gets to the line a lot.

Cason Wallace. Advanced stats are almost all best in this crop, and he has the 'Kentucky guard' pedigree. A good shooter with decent volume at range and heady defender with a strong body. But he has similarities to TyTy Washington, who wasn't great last year.

Kobe Bufkin. Skinny, but tough. Hit a really high rate attacking the rim, popped in a dislocated finger and ripped off eight points once. A jack-of-all-trades type, though. Good defender, but maybe not a stopper, and maybe not explicitly a point guard.

Jalen Hood-Schifino. Was not expected to be draft ready after his freshman year, but may now go in the top 20. Erratic production and his advanced stats really aren't good. Some games, very dominant, others, not as much. Good size and tools, good vision.

Nick Smith, Jr. A rough year for a highly regarded player coming into the year. Derailed by injury, never quite got back into things. A warrior, though, determined to play rather than sit out. Skinny, could be a great slasher and scorer, not sure he's a point guard.

Marcus Sasser. An outlier, as he's almost 23. Is only Scoot size at 6'2", but his advanced stats are terrific, he shot over eight threes a game for Houston, twice as many as anyone else on this list. Unlike any of the others, he should be available in the late first, early second round.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=anthony-black--kobe-bufkin--jalen-hood-schifino--marcus-sasser--cason-wallace

That list of prospects tells me one thing... we can fairly easily gets one or more of these guys if we feel like he's the fit. While I like Scoot, I don't like the cost of moving there and you can find a guy, albeit not as talented, that could be a better fit long-term.

[Ariel]

Cason Wallace. Advanced stats are almost all best in this crop, and he has the 'Kentucky guard' pedigree. A good shooter with decent volume at range and heady defender with a strong body. But he has similarities to TyTy Washington, who wasn't great last year.
I came here to say the same thing :lol everybody keeps this "Kentucky" narrative because of a string of successful guards, but each player is different, and the most recent Kentucky guard was Ty Ty Washington who didn't show anything. He's actually pretty similar to Ty Ty in terms of height (6'2.5"), wingspan (6'8.5"), weight, closer to him than often mentioned Jrue Holiday (considerably stronger than Cason IMO), and he isn't a pure PG either. On the plus side he's got good instincts on defense and he can shoot the 3, but IMO he's overrated and I'm really not interested in getting into the lottery to pick him, I'd prefer Bufkin at the late lottery / mid-teens over him.
Pass on Hood Schifino and Nick Smith Jr. Sasser at #44 sounds good to me.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

They have so many really young developmental guys on the roster, if they go for a pg in the draft, I'd prefer they save their draft capital and go with someone older who would be available late like Sasser. He's more of a finished product than the one and done guys who will need a lot more seasoning. There aren't going to be developmental minutes for them any longer on the big club. I wouldn't mind them taking a flyer on Markquis Nowell or Isiah Wong. Neither are projected in the top 60 right now, but both are >22 years old and both are gamers. Nowell was an absolute beast in the tourney. You can't teach clutch. He'd be a killer change of pace guy off the bench. He's tiny but maybe that isn't as big of an issue now with a 7'4" dude patrolling the paint behind him. Plus the photo op of him standing next to Wemby may be too good to pass up.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/NHuxNVCmMglV6t.9ae.sGg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTE0MjM7Y2Y9d2VicA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/9fcede338d3f2b9e650ec48ae9c689bc

[Mr. Body]

I came here to say the same thing :lol everybody keeps this "Kentucky" narrative because of a string of successful guards, but each player is different, and the most recent Kentucky guard was Ty Ty Washington who didn't show anything. He's actually pretty similar to Ty Ty in terms of height (6'2.5"), wingspan (6'8.5"), weight, closer to him than often mentioned Jrue Holiday (considerably stronger than Cason IMO), and he isn't a pure PG either. On the plus side he's got good instincts on defense and he can shoot the 3, but IMO he's overrated and I'm really not interested in getting into the lottery to pick him, I'd prefer Bufkin at the late lottery / mid-teens over him.
Pass on Hood Schifino and Nick Smith Jr. Sasser at #44 sounds good to me.

Kentucky guards: It's as likely that Calipari just gets many top players every year and some of them pan out. Here's TyTy compared to Cason. Take with a grain of salt, but he might have actually been the better prospect:

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=cason-wallace--tyty-washington

[Extra Stout]

Sasser brings a ton to the table, but is he really a point guard? I guess not, which is why somebody with his eye-popping numbers projects so low.

[Russ]

What about Terquavion Smith. He averaged more assists/game (at NC State) than any of those guys except Cason Wallace and he leaves them in the dust in terms of quickness.

He can also shoot from way downtown as well as mid range (nice pull up). He's actually looked pretty electric at the Combine.

He's also projected to go where the Spurs may be able to pick him, whereas the listed guys are generally predicted to go higher.

[exstatic]

What about Terquavion Smith. He averaged more assists/game (at NC State) than any of those guys except Cason Wallace and he leaves them in the dust in terms of quickness.

He can also shoot from way downtown as well as mid range (nice pull up). He's actually looked pretty electric in the Combine.

He's also projected to go where the Spurs may be able to pick him, whereas the listed guys are generally predicted to go higher.

His overall FG% is 38%. That's just fucking horrible, especially for someone with a USG% of 30. High usage low efficiency guys are a problematic archetype.

[Mr. Body]

Sasser brings a ton to the table, but is he really a point guard? I guess not, which is why somebody with his eye-popping numbers projects so low.

Probably gets into: What do we want/expect/need from a point guard?

- Do we need a guy who can bring the ball up the court, get the team organized and moving into sets?
- Do we need a guy who can do advanced creation like a Chris Paul?
- Do we need a guy who can take shots whenever possible to make defenses honest?
- Do we need a guy who can be a disruptive, plus defender?
- Do we need a guy who can be even more, a lock-down defender?

Sasser might be more of a 'get shots up' kind of point, someone who can move the ball up court, get the ball moving around. With the Spurs, they will run their motion offense and run picks and stuff. They may not need an exceptional playmaker or passer. A guy who will take threes whenever he's open and without remorse may work. But do we already have that in Devonte Graham (who is not the defender Sasser is)?

[Mugen]

In TyTy's defense, he was put in a horrible position by being drafted by the Rockets. Look at Jabari for most of the year tbh.

[exstatic]

In TyTy's defense, he was put in a horrible position by being drafted by the Rockets. Look at Jabari for most of the year tbh.

Yeah, Houston is pretty much where high draft picks go to die, when they don't go to Detroit.

[Russ]

His overall FG% is 38%. That's just fucking horrible, especially for someone with a USG% of 30. High usage low efficiency guys are a problematic archetype.

Dejounte Murray shot .416 (2 point) and .288 (3 point) at Washington and improved that considerably with the Spurs.

This guy reminds me of Dejounte in build, athleticism, and raw aggression. The Spurs likely need high upside guys now more than safe picks (especially if they stay where they are in the draft).

[JuneJive]

Wesley not even being mentioned speaks volumes.

If they're gonna develop someone I think it's him.

[TrainOfThought5]

Wesley not even being mentioned speaks volumes.

If they're gonna develop someone I think it's him.

He would need to do a lot of developing between this year and next. He was terrible at finishing at the rim, questionable passes, weak, not a good defender. How much of that do you think he’ll improve on? I’d rather trade him, KJ, 33, and ATL pick and go and get Anthony Black.

[Extra Stout]

Wesley not even being mentioned speaks volumes.

If they're gonna develop someone I think it's him.
TD 21 said it elsewhere — Wesley has a long way to go to reach the level of replacement player. His speed does him no good if he can’t finish at the rim, and over a full year he hasn’t developed in that area.

[Ariel]

In TyTy's defense, he was put in a horrible position by being drafted by the Rockets. Look at Jabari for most of the year tbh.


Yeah, Houston is pretty much where high draft picks go to die, when they don't go to Detroit.
If you can't find your way into the most PG starved roster in the league, it may not just be an environment thing, you know? How bad do you have to be not to be an improvement?

[J_Paco]

Yeah, Houston is pretty much where high draft picks go to die, when they don't go to Detroit.

True, but if Udoka can get them to buy in (and finds a lineup that works) they could improve next year defensively.

I expect the Spurs and Rockets to improve defensively, but that ain't saying much cause both were dogshit this season.

Back to the topic of this thread, bringing back Tre Jones has to be the #1 priority in free-agency.

I think the team has a lot of options and some time on their hands before they "need" to find a PG. Tre proved more than capable of playing the spot, although I agree he'd be better as a backup, plus we could see Blake Wesley make a jump in year two (it'll need to be massive).

And they could keep Graham around for extra year or two as a 'Patty Mills' - type spark plug while we find a more optimal, long-term solution.

The Spurs have time, draft capital, and cap space to find the solution.

(Sasser could be a good option amongst these prospects, but he wouldn't have the highest ceiling amongst them. Which might not matter if Wemby becomes a superstar - level player before his 3rd or 4 year.)

[Ocotillo]

Good thread and I agree this is the "position" of concern for the roster at the moment. One thing I would add to the options offered in the initial post is the Spurs have shown an inclination (with mixed results) to bring in an international point guard as at least a stop gap or backup so don't overlook that. I like Tre Jones but because of his pedestrian 3 point shooting feel he is a solid backup. If he is offered a deal by another team that is too expensive for a backup, he is likely to be gone. If not, you keep him here. He likely stays the starter until a drafted PG gets up to speed and maybe the international guy is his backup.

[Mr. Body]

Here are Kobe Bufkin's shooting stats the last 10 games of the season.

66-127
20-45
29-32

If I did my math right. Basically, almost a third of the season, a point when Michigan increasingly relied on him, a point where Michigan was playing must-win games. (Didn't win enough of them, but wouldn't say that was his fault.)

Now... he's a young sophomore, so this wasn't an acceleration at the end of his first year. It might be noise. But:

.519 fg%
.444 3p%
.906 ft%

In some ways he's a mini-Haliburton (https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kobe-bufkin--tyrese-haliburton). Not nearly the player Haliburton was as a sophomore -- and how did so many teams skip on him?? -- but similar kinds of production.

[exstatic]

TD 21 said it elsewhere — Wesley has a long way to go to reach the level of replacement player. His speed does him no good if he can’t finish at the rim, and over a full year he hasn’t developed in that area.

37 games, so far.

[Extra Stout]

37 games, so far.
He has one more summer league, a training camp, and however many minutes he can earn during the season to figure it out.

[The Truth #6]

For the second round, I actually like the idea of four year point guards. Sasser looks like the closest thing to it so I definitely would take a look at him if he is still around, unless Supreme Balla Coulibaly is still available.

[Extra Stout]

Sasser reminded me of a Patty Mills who can play defense.

[Chinook]

Wesley has years to figure it out. But the Spurs should still acquire a PG of they can get a good fit. That's what it means to have a lot of picks.

[slick'81]

Is tre jones resigned and given the reigns?

[Ditty]

We get Bronny in next years draft :king

[mookie2001]

I'm kind of liking Tre Jones for this job, don't dribble around too much, don't turn the ball over.

See some people wanting to draft Black or get Ben Simmons or Giddey when we already have our own non shooting PG. If we replace Jones the guy better be a shooter

[mookie2001]

Or Van Vleet either isn't he a chucker

[exstatic]

We get Bronny in next years draft :king

Dear God, no. Don't need that family's circus anywhere near SA.

[JuneJive]

I don't see the need for a an established star PG right now.

This is not a contending team yet and getting a bonafide point guard would be one of the finishing touches on a contender.

As it stands, the Spurs need to know what they're getting and will get in the future from the current talent ( Wemby, Sochan, Vassell )
How will they gel, what's clicking, what's not, who is gonna surprise, that being a positive one or a disappointing one.

Jones will do more than fine for the time being.
He knows his role and is well liked all around. Pop included.

I'd be extremely surprised if he weren't extended.

Moving up in the lotto is wishful thinking. Spurs will not do that.
It would cost too much.

The talent there ( Black, Wallace, JHS ... is nice but nothing special, imho )

[buttsR4rebounding]

We get Bronny in next years draft :king

I mentioned this before as a sneaky short term PG play. Use one of next year's 3 FRP to draft Jr and have LBJ come in and play point guard if Wemby shows a high enough level of play this year. Sign a FA like Brown, get LBJ on a deal and Wemby at a high level who knows what might happen.

[exstatic]

I mentioned this before as a sneaky short term PG play. Use one of next year's 3 FRP to draft Jr and have LBJ come in and play point guard if Wemby shows a high enough level of play this year. Sign a FA like Brown, get LBJ on a deal and Wemby at a high level who knows what might happen.


Dear God, no. Don't need that family's circus anywhere near SA.

[duncan2150]

the target should be Black but he'll be too expensive, wallace too.

So imo as we need a third pg, just see if there's an opportunity with a mid to late first with a correct price and then you can grab JHS or Bufkin if you like them. The thing is you don't have a lot of PG with our secound round range.

If you don't draft a pg, you can try a PG via free agency ( i just see coby white as a correct target) or stand path.

[TD 21]

I don't see the answer within' this group both in terms of caliber or skillset. They all seem like secondary ball handlers or combo guards who lean heavily toward being off guards offensively (namely Smith, Jr. and Sasser).

Despite Vassell's on ball growth, the Spurs don't have a wing who can be be the primary or even 1A ball handler/play maker, so the PG is going to have to be a clear lead guard with star potential offensively.

[John B]

Anthony Black. A tall freshman with good body strength, perhaps underwhelming athleticism. Questionable, but not totally horrible jumpshot that is slow and flatfooted. A disruptive defender and heady passer. A touch turnover prone. Gets to the line a lot.



https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=anthony-black--kobe-bufkin--jalen-hood-schifino--marcus-sasser--cason-wallace

I think Anthony posted 39” vertical at the Combine

Another standout at the Combine was Brandin Podziemski, a 43% 3pt shooter big 6’5” Guard from Santa Clara who posted 10 points, 8 assists, 8 rebounds, and 2 steals in the last combine scrimmage, and a 39-inch vertical, currently slated at #41 in mock draft. He’s not bad at all.


https://youtu.be/QclpKjfFaBQ

[couchman]

I'm unimpressed with the draft PG options outside of Scoot, and I agree with those who think he may be too expensive to chase.

I'm telling ya, Austin Reaves would be great here and could play PG.
I know it's a long shot but I'd force LA to pay top dollar for him or lose him.

[td4mvp2k]

bufkin def jumps out the screen. looks like he already has alot of elite skills that already translate to the nba. if theres a guy the spurs can get without trading the house it could be him.

[Biggems]

I am high on Jalen Pickett from Penn St. I believe he can be had with our last 2nd round pick.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I am high on Jalen Pickett from Penn St. I believe he can be had with our last 2nd round pick.

Now we’re talking! We are Penn State!!!!! Class of 83.

[Mr. Body]

bufkin def jumps out the screen. looks like he already has alot of elite skills that already translate to the nba. if theres a guy the spurs can get without trading the house it could be him.

He's all over mock drafts but I'm feeling the more serious ones are seeing him in the late lottery.

[RC_Drunkford]

Probably gets into: What do we want/expect/need from a point guard?

- Do we need a guy who can bring the ball up the court, get the team organized and moving into sets?
- Do we need a guy who can do advanced creation like a Chris Paul?
- Do we need a guy who can take shots whenever possible to make defenses honest?
- Do we need a guy who can be a disruptive, plus defender?
- Do we need a guy who can be even more, a lock-down defender?

Sasser might be more of a 'get shots up' kind of point, someone who can move the ball up court, get the ball moving around. With the Spurs, they will run their motion offense and run picks and stuff. They may not need an exceptional playmaker or passer. A guy who will take threes whenever he's open and without remorse may work. But do we already have that in Devonte Graham (who is not the defender Sasser is)?

I'd say we need a fast paced PG who can break down the defense. That would be the best pick & roll and pick and pop partner for Wemby as well as the 3-point shooting wings. Now he should also be able to play off the ball and hit 3s at a high clip so you can run a 2-man game at the top of the key with dribble hand offs and passes by Sochan, the way Draymond is distributing the ball on the Warriors. If he can defend well that will be a plus. I don't see that type of player in this draft tbh

[Mr. Body]

I'd say we need a fast paced PG who can break down the defense. That would be the best pick & roll and pick and pop partner for Wemby as well as the 3-point shooting wings. Now he should also be able to play off the ball and hit 3s at a high clip so you can run a 2-man game at the top of the key with dribble hand offs and passes by Sochan, the way Draymond is distributing the ball on the Warriors. If he can defend well that will be a plus. I don't see that type of player in this draft tbh

You probably just want more of a combo guard like Keyonte George. Just see how Graham plays with Wembanyama.

[BackHome]

I think Anthony posted 39” vertical at the Combine

Another standout at the Combine was Brandin Podziemski, a 43% 3pt shooter big 6’5” Guard from Santa Clara who posted 10 points, 8 assists, 8 rebounds, and 2 steals in the last combine scrimmage, and a 39-inch vertical, currently slated at #41 in mock draft. He’s not bad at all.


https://youtu.be/QclpKjfFaBQ

I am thinking he goes mid to late first I like him as a combo guard he definitely plays very relaxed very smart and does a little bit of everything - His NBA Measurements where Height: 6'3.75 Wing: 6'5.50

[Leetonidas]

I'm unimpressed with the draft PG options outside of Scoot, and I agree with those who think he may be too expensive to chase.

I'm telling ya, Austin Reaves would be great here and could play PG.
I know it's a long shot but I'd force LA to pay top dollar for him or lose him.
I wouldn't mind Spurs making him a huge frontloaded offer. Reaves has a lot of herky jerky change of direction Manu-ness to his game. Not sure about playing PG full time though

[John B]

I am thinking he goes mid to late first I like him as a combo guard he definitely plays very relaxed very smart and does a little bit of everything - His NBA Measurements where Height: 6'3.75 Wing: 6'5.50

43% 3pt shooter, one of the best pure shooters in the draft. I wouldn’t be surprised he’s Spurs pick

[The Truth #6]

You probably just want more of a combo guard like Keyonte George. Just see how Graham plays with Wembanyama.

Graham might do really well, relatively speaking.

[RC_Drunkford]

You probably just want more of a combo guard like Keyonte George. Just see how Graham plays with Wembanyama.

as far as the shooting and offball movement goes yes, Graham is that kind of guy. But he's not the pick and roll player who can drive to the rim and then kick out to the big or corners. Wesley has the potential there, but has a lot to work on. We need a star player at that position.

[The Truth #6]

I’d say we at least need a functional 3/D point guard. A star is always awesome of course, but we need playmaking chops from someone on the team to complement VW. Ideally from the PG but from someone. Or someone who does really well in the pnr with VW. Maybe Branham?

Next year we’ll see what works. KJ and Vassel should have higher trade value playing next to Wemby for a year. Anyway, I don’t expect big moves but we’ll see if Wright feels compelled to put something together. Maybe Wright isn’t worried about a PG yet but finding a fiery Mario Elie type to bring a competitive accountable culture to the team—that might be more important next year than positional optimization.

We’ll see.

[rankingtear]

Stretching the young guys playmaking is more important than a lead guard next season. Having playmaking on non guard positions is the key for the future.

[scott]

Another heady Mr. Body post - great stuff, these conversations of the pinnacle of what ST can be.

Personally, I think it’s best to just run it back with Tre and see how the team develops. Next year’s draft does have a few PG prospects (Collier, Wagner, Proctor, McCain, Bronny) that might be in play.

I do think we need to add a vet backup, even with Graham and Blake on the team. I’m gonna throw out a suggestion that everyone is going to really hate… but what about Patty back as a locker room leader, spot minutes backup? Assuming it isn’t for 3/$50 of course

[John B]

Patty is not a true PG though. I would expect George Hill with veteran signing, then draft a true PG like Branden from Santa Clara, 43% 3pt shooter big PG. And also Bilal Coulibaly. Wemby, Bilal and Branden for me. But if there’s a way to get Anthony Black, then hell yeah.

[EricB]

He has one more summer league, a training camp, and however many minutes he can earn during the season to figure it out.

lol he’s 20

[vander]

I don't get these type of threads, Wemby is 19 and Spurs are nowhere near contending yet.
We have no idea what we will need to compliment him in 3-5 years when he might be an MVP level player.

Wemby and Sochan both have PG abilities no? why not just roll with Wesley and Tre and draft picks until it's obvious what piece we need to compliment Wemby

[Mr. Body]

I don't get these type of threads, Wemby is 19 and Spurs are nowhere near contending yet.
We have no idea what we will need to compliment him in 3-5 years when he might be an MVP level player.


Maybe if you read the first part of the thread you'd understand it? Just a thought.

[John B]

I don't get these type of threads, Wemby is 19 and Spurs are nowhere near contending yet.
We have no idea what we will need to compliment him in 3-5 years when he might be an MVP level player.

Wemby and Sochan both have PG abilities no? why not just roll with Wesley and Tre and draft picks until it's obvious what piece we need to compliment Wemby

You have two more picks, plenty of movable assets, plenty of future FRP and SRP. It’s better to be thinking 25 moves ahead. If you can get an Anthony Black. He’s also 19 and can develop in our future Big 3. He’s more than a facilitator, he’s a great defender, long. Plus Sochan, Vassell. You plan early. Spurs have 2-3 years to develop Wemby. It’d be nice to get that starting PG early too. I’m not saying it’s not Blake nor Malaki, maybe. But Black is another beast, defensively.

[Ocotillo]

One other thing, the Spurs have it seems, always been looking for the right point guard. Tony Parker was the exception. David Robinson went through a myriad of scrubs manning the point (and I am not forgetting Strickland but he was hardly here). Avery Johnson finally stepped in not so much as a top point guard but a steady hand that knew his role. Then post Tony, we had the Dejounte era and now we are back to trying to figure out who the starting point will be again.

[Extra Stout]

One other thing, the Spurs have it seems, always been looking for the right point guard. Tony Parker was the exception. David Robinson went through a myriad of scrubs manning the point (and I am not forgetting Strickland but he was hardly here). Avery Johnson finally stepped in not so much as a top point guard but a steady hand that knew his role. Then post Tony, we had the Dejounte era and now we are back to trying to figure out who the starting point will be again.
Tell me you grew up in the ‘90s without telling me you grew up in the ‘90s, O fan of a franchise that spent the ‘70s and ‘80s with James Silas, Johnny Moore, and Johnny Dawkins.

[The Truth #6]

Tre Jones is our Jon Sunvold?

[exstatic]

I’d say we at least need a functional 3/D point guard. A star is always awesome of course, but we need playmaking chops from someone on the team to complement VW. Ideally from the PG but from someone. Or someone who does really well in the pnr with VW. Maybe Branham?

Next year we’ll see what works. KJ and Vassel should have higher trade value playing next to Wemby for a year. Anyway, I don’t expect big moves but we’ll see if Wright feels compelled to put something together. Maybe Wright isn’t worried about a PG yet but finding a fiery Mario Elie type to bring a competitive accountable culture to the team—that might be more important next year than positional optimization.

We’ll see.

Kel
don

[The Truth #6]

Kel
don

Mario played defense for one. I’d say his intensity and leadership were totally different.

[Bruno]

A steady PG will certainly help the development of all the young players. Re-signing Tre Jones would be good but if it doesn't happen a player like Jevon Carter would be a decent option.

[Ocotillo]

Tell me you grew up in the ‘90s without telling me you grew up in the ‘90s, O fan of a franchise that spent the ‘70s and ‘80s with James Silas, Johnny Moore, and Johnny Dawkins.

Yep, I became a fan in 84, 85 timeframe so I either watched the players you mention or am aware of their contribution to Spurs lore. I didn't make clear i started with the DRob years moving forward. Johnny Moore had a post-Desert Fever stint with the team during that timeframe as well.

[wildbill2u]

It's hard not to notice that the two guards we drafted high last year aren't even mentioned as serious competition for a starting PG position. Tre isn't my ideal PG for the future, but he did get better as last year wore on.

[Extra Stout]

Yep, I became a fan in 84, 85 timeframe so I either watched the players you mention or am aware of their contribution to Spurs lore. I didn't make clear i started with the DRob years moving forward. Johnny Moore had a post-Desert Fever stint with the team during that timeframe as well.
I totally understand the thinking that the Spurs have “always” been looking for a point guard, even though the interval between Strickland breaking his hand and Avery Johnson taking firm control of the reigns was all of 2 1/2 years. It’s just that that 2 1/2 years seems like a whole lot longer because I was a teenager at the time and I think that’s how memory works.

[Extra Stout]

Wait, doesn’t Devonte’ Graham play for the Spurs?

[Ocotillo]

I totally understand the thinking that the Spurs have “always” been looking for a point guard, even though the interval between Strickland breaking his hand and Avery Johnson taking firm control of the reigns was all of 2 1/2 years. It’s just that that 2 1/2 years seems like a whole lot longer because I was a teenager at the time and I think that’s how memory works.

Heck it seemed like most of the decade to me lol.

[Biggems]

Now we’re talking! We are Penn State!!!!! Class of 83.

Oh no, I hate PSU and I love that my Horns ended their season, but Pickett can play. Also, Micah is my favorite player in the NFL rt now.

[Extra Stout]

Oh no, I hate PSU and I love that my Horns ended their season, but Pickett can play. Also, Micah is my favorite player in the NFL rt now.
Mine too, but man is he a bandwagon NBA fan.

[R. DeMurre]

I would skip the PG draft hopefuls and try to steal Immanuel Quickley from the Knicks. He's still only 23-- so barely older than the current draft prospects, has three proven seasons of incredible impact numbers on his resumé but without the gaudy numbers that always result in max contracts, and in 21 starts put up 22.6ppg, 5.4 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.3 TO, 40.1 3ptFG% while also being a 6MOTY candidate. At best, he blossoms into a very good PG, and at worst a valuable and versatile glue guy. The Knicks have too many guards, and pairing the 6'3" Quickley with the 6'1" Brunson isn't ideal... but a 6'3" IQ + a 6'5" Devin Vassell is. I think a gamble on him as your future PG is a good one.

[tempest186]

While I agree that getting a pg to play with Wemby early to develop chemistry, I like the idea of a vet to start him off. Then over the next couple of drafts, the Spurs have a lot of picks to find the right fit after they see how year one plays out. definitely need shooters and defenders so I'd say focus on those unless a great fit for a front court partner falls. Personally, I'd be very much in favour of bringing Poetl back to pair with his, assuming he wanted to return.

[lmbebo]

My gut feels like this problem won't be solved this off season unless they make a move to try and bring in another rookie

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Tre Jones is our Jon Sunvold?

Nah. Sunvold could actually shoot the ball.

[$pursDynasty]

Should the Spurs consider trading the Hawks a pick back for the instagram baller? The combo of Dejounte and Trae wasn't as successful as expected and they might not want to pay him. Should/would the Spurs trade a pick to put him on point of this team? Murray with the other players we have would be a great team defensively and man that length. He is probably better than anything we could expect to nab with a non-lottery pick.

[SpursRussia]

What would it take to get Halliburton from Indy? Shit defender, but should fit really well on offense.

[Twisted_Dawg]

I would skip the PG draft hopefuls and try to steal Immanuel Quickley from the Knicks. He's still only 23-- so barely older than the current draft prospects, has three proven seasons of incredible impact numbers on his resumé but without the gaudy numbers that always result in max contracts, and in 21 starts put up 22.6ppg, 5.4 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.3 TO, 40.1 3ptFG% while also being a 6MOTY candidate. At best, he blossoms into a very good PG, and at worst a valuable and versatile glue guy. The Knicks have too many guards, and pairing the 6'3" Quickley with the 6'1" Brunson isn't ideal... but a 6'3" IQ + a 6'5" Devin Vassell is. I think a gamble on him as your future PG is a good one.

Good post! Realistically what do you think the Knicks would want form him?

[scott]

What would it take to get Halliburton from Indy? Shit defender, but should fit really well on offense.

While I doubt there is anyone on this board who would be against this, I think the consensus is that he is practically untouchable for Indy.

[spurraider21]

Should the Spurs consider trading the Hawks a pick back for the instagram baller? The combo of Dejounte and Trae wasn't as successful as expected and they might not want to pay him. Should/would the Spurs trade a pick to put him on point of this team? Murray with the other players we have would be a great team defensively and man that length. He is probably better than anything we could expect to nab with a non-lottery pick.
nah. if they really want murray back, just sign him outright as a UFA in 2024

[SpursRussia]

While I doubt there is anyone on this board who would be against this, I think the consensus is that he is practically untouchable for Indy.

Seems like they are more likely to try and dump Hield and Turner and try build around Mathurin and Haliburton, but we can always dream.

[SpursRussia]

nah. if they really want murray back, just sign him outright as a UFA in 2024

I'd rather they don't consider it, he's not a good culture fit and he was speaking too much shit about his time here.

[Darkwaters]

A steady PG will certainly help the development of all the young players. Re-signing Tre Jones would be good but if it doesn't happen a player like Jevon Carter would be a decent option.

Good to see you around old timer!

[The Truth #6]

Good post! Realistically what do you think the Knicks would want form him?

That seems like a good less expected target. A draft pick plus filler? I will defer to the trade machinists.

[Biggems]

Mine too, but man is he a bandwagon NBA fan.

I thought he was a Sixers fan, cause of being from Pennsylvania

[buttsR4rebounding]

If Charlotte decides to take Scoot Terry Rozier would probably become available. Either him or LaMelo. Rozier wouldn’t be my first choice, but he’d be a decent placeholder.

[DAF86]

Take on CP3 contract for a couple years, he would make Wemby's transition so much easier. It would get him 4 to 6 wide open layups/dunks per game.

[scott]

Find me an under the radar, crafty Argentinian PG. This is the Bizarro TP/Manu duo we need.

[exstatic]

Take on CP3 contract for a couple years, he would make Wemby's transition so much easier. It would get him 4 to 6 wide open layups/dunks per game.

He's washed, and can't make it past the first or second round of the playoffs any more. He has some kind of chronic hamstring issue, and it bites him (and his team) every year.

[rascal]

Here are Kobe Bufkin's shooting stats the last 10 games of the season.

66-127
20-45
29-32

If I did my math right. Basically, almost a third of the season, a point when Michigan increasingly relied on him, a point where Michigan was playing must-win games. (Didn't win enough of them, but wouldn't say that was his fault.)

Now... he's a young sophomore, so this wasn't an acceleration at the end of his first year. It might be noise. But:

.519 fg%
.444 3p%
.906 ft%

In some ways he's a mini-Haliburton (https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kobe-bufkin--tyrese-haliburton). Not nearly the player Haliburton was as a sophomore -- and how did so many teams skip on him?? -- but similar kinds of production.

I like Bufkin more than Black. I don't like Black's shooting form.

Bufkin will also cost less to move up for. Bufkin looks solid in all areas. Black needs better shooting.

[Chinook]

I'm not a fan of Paul as I've said. However reading this and the center discussion makes me want to say that STers are putting way too much emphasis on youth. Most of the players who are on the team now won't be on the team in four or five years. The Spurs having mainly the same rotation pieces in pace for a half-decade back in the day is the exception, not the rule. They don't need a young PG to grow with the team, and they don't need a young center to play with Wemby for 10 years. They just need players that work for now, and those guys can be of any age. So yeah, it can mean to draft someone or sign a young vet. But it can also mean to bring in guys in their last years or give shots to middle-aged NBA players. The Spurs thrived on having a multi-generational roster, and they should look into instilling that now. The last thing they should want is a bunch of guys trying to develop at the same time and wanting escalating contracts as they improve.

[rascal]

I'm not a fan of Paul as I've said. However reading this and the center discussion makes me want to say that STers are putting way too much emphasis on youth. Most of the players who are on the team now won't be on the team in four or five years. The Spurs having mainly the same rotation pieces in pace for a half-decade back in the day is the exception, not the rule. They don't need a young PG to grow with the team, and they don't need a young center to play with Wemby for 10 years. They just need players that work for now, and those guys can be of any age. So yeah, it can mean to draft someone or sign a young vet. But it can also mean to bring in guys in their last years or give shots to middle-aged NBA players. The Spurs thrived on having a multi-generational roster, and they should look into instilling that now. The last thing they should want is a bunch of guys trying to develop at the same time and wanting escalating contracts as they improve.

The Spurs were successful for a long time because they didn't have a revolving door with their top core players.

It's the way the Spurs found success in the past and I think they will try again to recreate that.

Bringing in older guys like Paul will create a revolving door approach and the older vets are more costly.

[R. DeMurre]

Good post! Realistically what do you think the Knicks would want form him?

I think KJ for IQ + Evan Fournier might get it done. The Knicks have a bottleneck of guards/small players, and Brunson is the established PG leader. I don't care about Fournier, but it relieves the Knicks of one year of his salary, plus gives VW a French teammate. If that doesn't work, try KJ + Devonte Graham for IQ + Fournier + Derrick Rose (+ SRP?). Knicks get a young back up guard to replace IQ, plus KJ's shooting. Again, don't care about Fournier or Rose, but it gives the Knicks relief and both are only on the books for a year with the Spurs. I don't see KJ or Devonte being a part of a future VW led team, so losing them combined with the cap relief for the Spurs to start the '25 season (when Fournier & Rose expire) seems like a good deal to me.

[DAF86]

He's washed, and can't make it past the first or second round of the playoffs any more. He has some kind of chronic hamstring issue, and it bites him (and his team) every year.

So? We don't want him to contend.

[Chinook]

The Spurs were successful for a long time because they didn't have a revolving door with their top core players.

It's the way the Spurs found success in the past and I think they will try again to recreate that.

Bringing in older guys like Paul will create a revolving door approach and the older vets are more costly.

The Spurs didn't have a revolving door, but they did change their core multiple times. It's not realistic to keep guys together for years in a post-Lebron era where taking less money is considered a sucker's play. You bring in a 23 year-old role-player and he'll be gone when he's 26. There's zero reason to try to pencil in a rotation that will be intact long enough to "grow together". MAYBE the very core will be around a couple of contracts, but when we're talking about the 6-8 men, no. They will move on if they're any good.

[Extra Stout]

I think the “core” is the top 3 or 4 players. The Spurs had Tim-Manu-Tony for 14 years. Bowen was part of the core for eight years. Kawhi was there for six (not counting the flake-out year). The other players churned over the years.

[R. DeMurre]

It's easy to stick with a "core" if those guys are Timmy, Manu, and Tony. Very different scenario coming off four consecutive losing seasons.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not a fan of Paul as I've said. However reading this and the center discussion makes me want to say that STers are putting way too much emphasis on youth. Most of the players who are on the team now won't be on the team in four or five years. The Spurs having mainly the same rotation pieces in pace for a half-decade back in the day is the exception, not the rule. They don't need a young PG to grow with the team, and they don't need a young center to play with Wemby for 10 years. They just need players that work for now, and those guys can be of any age. So yeah, it can mean to draft someone or sign a young vet. But it can also mean to bring in guys in their last years or give shots to middle-aged NBA players. The Spurs thrived on having a multi-generational roster, and they should look into instilling that now. The last thing they should want is a bunch of guys trying to develop at the same time and wanting escalating contracts as they improve.

I agree, the team needs more veteran presence. Not sure how this will happen.

I also think my push for a good young PG prospect may be premature. There are a few reasons for my interest, not all of them good:

- The assets we have to take a swing at a prospect may be harder to come by in a few years
- There are a few good defensive PGs or semi-PGs possibly available in this draft
- I want to reiterate that my interest here is that these guys are specifically good at defense as well as other things, possibly a rare mix
- This draft seems unusual in that teams may be slugging it out for IMO overrated athletes who are pushing these PG prospects down
- If we can get a key position on board, why not? Team culture seems fantastic right now
- Swinging now does not preclude swinging later, but only swinging later means we didn't swing now
- We have to use our draft capital somehow. We will likely have six draft picks next year, for example

So, my main reasons are that PG is what's going to tie the room together. I like Jones a lot, not sure about fulltime, career starter. Wesley is a good defender, but strong doubts about his longterm viability esp. as a starter. Branham is poor defensively and I don't think he's really the passer or vision-guy you need, no offense to him.

If the situation was different, if these PGs weren't good at defense, if there wasn't a weird scrum going on in the 2-7 picks, and then good prospects after, then we have a different situation. It's the somewhat rare situation that I'm tapping into. I don't want all our PG options next year or 2025 or 2026 to be awful defensive guys.

That said, I think Anthony Black will be out of range. I have concerns about his shooting - that flatfooted, slowass shit is getting to me - and so the ledger of busting the piggy bank of picks to move up to get him I don't think will be worth it.

And I think Kobe Bufkin will now fall into the late lottery and I think he'll be too expensive to get. Again, the ledger balance between potential and cost may not be there.

[Extra Stout]

It's easy to stick with a "core" if those guys are Timmy, Manu, and Tony. Very different scenario coming off four consecutive losing seasons.
Mr. rascal’s point was that it doesn’t make sense to bring in a “core” guy like Chris Paul as a key cog when he might only be around for a year.

[couchman]

The question of "core" is what comes up now that we have Wemby on the way.
A core is not 5+ players. The NBA doesn't really let you do that nowadays.
A core is 3-4 guys that you try to keep together.

We have our potential superstar with Wemby.
Now the question is, what is the best way to get another 2 or 3 guys to form the core?
Do we already have one or two of those guys on the roster and we develop them?
Sochan has that potential. Can Vassell or Keldon elevate to Manu or Parker levels?

Are we going to draft them in the future?
A patient approach lets Wemby become a star and own the culture and THEN you bring in his supporting stars.
All of the biggest the Spurs have had in my lifetime came through the draft.

Will we pick them up as free agents?
The Spurs have historically picked up really good role players in free agency like Patty and Diaw and Bowen and Green and Kersey etc etc.
You can argue that some of them were part of the core for winning titles, but mostly we've just gotten really good role players who were outside the core.
Our efforts to get stars have had mixed results, even when we've signed people like Aldridge or Michael Finley.
It's unclear if we can build a super team through free agency. Probably not.

A final note about age: Tim was 2 years older than Manu, and 6 years older than Parker.

And to stay on topic: Quickley seems interesting at PG

[R. DeMurre]

Jordan, Shaq, and Durant were 28 when they won their first rings. LeBron and Steph were 27, Olajuwan and Dirk were 31. None of them won with PGs that were around in their rookies seasons-- those facts make me a little less concerned about who the PG is next year.

[Chinook]

Mr. rascal’s point was that it doesn’t make sense to bring in a “core” guy like Chris Paul as a key cog when he might only be around for a year.

That's not a good counter-argument though. The Spurs don't need a core yet. The guys who were core for Tim weren't there when he was young. Tim was significantly older than "core member" Parker, who was quite a bit older than "core member" Leonard. No one in their right mind should think the Spurs would get Paul to grow with Wemby. They don't need to look for players to do that. They need to look for players to help the team improve its long-term position, and they can do that without that player being young. Hell, you can argue that it's a detriment to bring in a young PG who's trying to figure out how to balance scoring and passing, who's still trying to get a feel for playing the PNR, who's trying to find their voice or is working out rotations on D into a team of guys who are also trying to figure that out.

The Spurs don't need a guy who will grow into his prime when Wemby enters his. They may want a guy who's in his prime at that time (though that's not necessary, as Tim showed), but they can get that by trading for or signing a PG during that time. They don't need them now. In the same way, if the Spurs sign an old PG who retires before Wemby enters his prime, they can just acquire another. Like holy shit, so many people seem to think Duncan's career began in 2003. Years of the Spurs figuring shit out happened. They aren't going to have some ironclad plan in place to win titles with Wemby. That rumor has been misconstrued. They're going to have to make many moves over years reacting to the rest of the NBA and their own team. Not only should they not worry about having their core right now, but they'd be fools if they thought they already do.

[Extra Stout]

Good post! Realistically what do you think the Knicks would want form him?
I bet they would want something like the Hornets pick + the Raptors pick.

But “rumors” suggest they see him more as a chip in a bigger deal to land an established player. Who knows.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I think NYK are trying to land a good size fish. I'm not a big fan of Quickley in this role. I think his sense of self and role is larger than we want and I don't think he fulfills PG duties. He's more of a SG and would overlap too much with Vassell.

That said, if we want to explore that route, I can see them having some interest in Keldon.

[scott]

The question of "core" is what comes up now that we have Wemby on the way.
A core is not 5+ players. The NBA doesn't really let you do that nowadays.
A core is 3-4 guys that you try to keep together.

We have our potential superstar with Wemby.
Now the question is, what is the best way to get another 2 or 3 guys to form the core?
Do we already have one or two of those guys on the roster and we develop them?
Sochan has that potential. Can Vassell or Keldon elevate to Manu or Parker levels?

Are we going to draft them in the future?
A patient approach lets Wemby become a star and own the culture and THEN you bring in his supporting stars.
All of the biggest the Spurs have had in my lifetime came through the draft.

Will we pick them up as free agents?
The Spurs have historically picked up really good role players in free agency like Patty and Diaw and Bowen and Green and Kersey etc etc.
You can argue that some of them were part of the core for winning titles, but mostly we've just gotten really good role players who were outside the core.
Our efforts to get stars have had mixed results, even when we've signed people like Aldridge or Michael Finley.
It's unclear if we can build a super team through free agency. Probably not.

A final note about age: Tim was 2 years older than Manu, and 6 years older than Parker.

And to stay on topic: Quickley seems interesting at PG

I think this is a good way of looking at it, and I think for *now* you look at our core as Wemby, Sochan, Vassell and Keldon. If any piece of the core needs upgrading along the way, we aren't locked in by any means, either by drafting, signing or trading for someone else.

I don't want this core surrounded exclusively by a lot of young guys. Give them support to raise their floor and provide the support to help them achieve their ceiling. While I'm not really into the CP3 idea, I think that is along the right lines. A wily vet who can come in, raise the floor and provide some guidance for these kids on how to be a successful professional (which doesn't only mean championships). They aren't going to learn that from other 19-year olds.

[RC_Drunkford]

People here are talking about defensive PGs, but Blake is actually a good defender (or has good defensive potential). I don't see any of the later PG prospects having more potential than him

[Extra Stout]

People here are talking about defensive PGs, but Blake is actually a good defender (or has good defensive potential). I don't see any of the later PG prospects having more potential than him
It feels harder to be patient on his development with Wemby accelerating the rebuilding timeframe. You figure you need three years to know what he really is, but by then Wemby should be ready for prime time and the rest of the lineup needs to be ready to start contending.

[couchman]

I want to believe that Blake will develop into a good PG and he really showed some strong potential in summer league and early in the season
BUT he was so so bad after coming back from the injury. Yeesh it was terrible.
Hopefully he can regain some form and also add a floater to his game.
He really just needs a floater or tear drop or something and he'd suddenly unlock a lot of his game imo

Agree that Wemby just changed the timeline for guys to develop.

[RC_Drunkford]

It feels harder to be patient on his development with Wemby accelerating the rebuilding timeframe. You figure you need three years to know what he really is, but by then Wemby should be ready for prime time and the rest of the lineup needs to be ready to start contending.

So will all the other PGs in this draft who can't shoot. You let Blake play another 2 years and see where he's at. He showed some flashes. If you want defense and elite speed you got it with him. The jump shot is what needs to come along, but his shot is not terrible that it seems you can't fix it. Hopefully he adds some stuff to his game this offseason. The things I like about him is he's super competitive, hard worker and actually seems to have a good IQ when it comes to making the right pass

[scott]

It feels harder to be patient on his development with Wemby accelerating the rebuilding timeframe. You figure you need three years to know what he really is, but by then Wemby should be ready for prime time and the rest of the lineup needs to be ready to start contending.

It's a great point - but also a good case for a CP/Mike Conley type PG addition while Blake continues to develop on his time frame (and with a mentor to learn from).

[exstatic]

I want to believe that Blake will develop into a good PG and he really showed some strong potential in summer league and early in the season
BUT he was so so bad after coming back from the injury. Yeesh it was terrible.
Hopefully he can regain some form and also add a floater to his game.
He really just needs a floater or tear drop or something and he'd suddenly unlock a lot of his game imo

Agree that Wemby just changed the timeline for guys to develop.

He never got to play enough games to get to the breakout point like Sochan and Malaki did.

[Mr. Body]

So will all the other PGs in this draft who can't shoot. You let Blake play another 2 years and see where he's at. He showed some flashes. If you want defense and elite speed you got it with him. The jump shot is what needs to come along, but his shot is not terrible that it seems you can't fix it. Hopefully he adds some stuff to his game this offseason. The things I like about him is he's super competitive, hard worker and actually seems to have a good IQ when it comes to making the right pass

His spot-up jumpshot was fine this year, although it was much better than in college, so may be an outlier. His problem is when he gets into the lane.

[scott]

It's a great point - but also a good case for a CP/Mike Conley type PG addition while Blake continues to develop on his time frame (and with a mentor to learn from).

And just one clarification - I don't want any vet PG that we'd have to give up any considerable assets for. Like, an SRP or two at most. And definitely don't want one that hamstrings our cap flexibility in future years.

Just a short term vet who can help raise the floor of our youth and help support them in achieving their ceiling. They don't need to be part of the core in the long term.

[jesterbobman]

Somewhere amongst the non Wemby perimeter players, we need a primary initiator who can force pressure on opposition defences that creates a bit of a breakdown and allow the other perimeter players to fit their role better. I don't think Vassell, Keldon or Sochan fit, or are likely to fit that role (to me, Keldon is best attacking an already bent defense, Vassell is close but doesn't quite generate enough rim pressure, and Sochan's shooting (while improving) limits the actions you can take with him on ball, and, and I think he's best as a connective passer. I'd love to be wrong.

The next several PG free agency classes are doo doo in terms of realistic options for a number 1 - teams aren't letting those guys go (Nuggets aren't letting for of Jamal Murray, Pacers aren't letting Hali go, for instance) so it'd be a trade for someone, or a draft pick.

This is probably the best PG draft class for a while, but after a point, players are unlikely to be better than Tre (who I think is worth keeping - there's value in being solid).

To me, it makes sense to look at the prices of the lottery guys (Black, Amen, Cason Wallace, Scoot) and if it's not too expensive, using some of the stockpile of less valuable picks (i.e, the non Atlanta picks) to move up. If the price is too high (e.g, to get Wallace would take the Charlotte, Chicago and Toronto picks) I'd just go with a caretaker who'll be here for a year to make sure we had 48 minutes of steady PG play as an option to ensure the development situation is good.

[LeBowen]

Garland and Mitchell aren't a good fit together at the Cavs, but Garland is already on a max deal, so it's probably best to avoid him.

Tre will suffice for Wemby's rookie season, let Wesley develop and hope a star PG becomes unhappy and requests a trade.

[rascal]

People here are talking about defensive PGs, but Blake is actually a good defender (or has good defensive potential). I don't see any of the later PG prospects having more potential than him

I like Blake but is he really a pg? He doesn't seem to process the pg role, court awareness. He seems more suited for sg.

[SpursBills]

What are the odds the spurs can pay a first rounder to get Dyson Daniel’s from the pels who is getting overshadowed by some of their other young players? He offers similar benefits to black and may come cheaper

[JuneJive]

I guess I like Wesley's potential more than some here do.

He's a potent slasher and a decent shooter with a pretty solid defense already.

His finishing is still awful. Decision making another weakness at this point in time, but he's a willing passer and capable of reading the defense.

I very much see him as the new HOTS.

Finishing will be his make or break attribute.

[John B]

He never got to play enough games to get to the breakout point like Sochan and Malaki did.

I remember early last season, people saying that Blake has the highest upside of the three, by the fearless way he plays. But then he got hurt, and Sochan was forced to play PG, and started the shooting with one hand, which unleashed all his confidence and skills. Then Malaki was put in the fire also, and he too started getting better with more minutes.

I still think Blake will be a stud. When Ginobili was a rookie, Pop had headaches with his unorthofox style. Blake is fearless, and he believes he is the best out there. He got that dawg in him. Not like Lonnie who deferred. Blake likes to be the man and not shy about it. He could very well be who Spurs starting PG. I’m excited what he brings next season. Hopefully he has added more muscle weight to absorb contacts finishing. I’m really rooting for this kid.

[TD 21]

Most of the players who are on the team now won't be on the team in four or five years.

I'd rank it as follows . . .

Lock: Wembanyama
Likely: Vassell, Sochan
Possibly: Johnson, Collins, Jones, Branham
Unlikely: Wesley, Bassey, Mamukelashvili, Champagnie, Barlow
No chance: McDermott, Graham, Bates-Diop, Langford, Dieng, Birch



If the price is too high (e.g, to get Wallace would take the Charlotte, Chicago and Toronto picks) I'd just go with a caretaker who'll be here for a year to make sure we had 48 minutes of steady PG play as an option to ensure the development situation is good.

My sense is if they target a PG/combo guard in the late lottery, it'll be Wallace.

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1636048391154155521

what i like about wesley is his progression at passing, he was pretty solid imo in that category. We sure need to let him shows what he got next two years.

As he could also play sg that's not a problem if we draft or add another PG( Graham will be the odd man)

[RC_Drunkford]

I like Blake but is he really a pg? He doesn't seem to process the pg role, court awareness. He seems more suited for sg.

well a shooting guard needs to be able to shoot. I think Blake has the potential to be a better playmaker than Dejounte Murray

[scott]

I'd rank it as follows . . .

Lock: Wembanyama
Likely: Vassell, Sochan
Possibly: Johnson, Collins, Jones, Branham
Unlikely: Wesley, Bassey, Mamukelashvili, Champagnie, Barlow
No chance: McDermott, Graham, Bates-Diop, Langford, Dieng, Birch




My sense is if they target a PG/combo guard in the late lottery, it'll be Wallace.

I think this is a great way to think about it, but I'd drop Vassell down to Possibly and Collins & Jones down to unlikely. Maybe even Johnson too. 5 years is a long team, especially for a team that isn't very good.

There are exactly 0 players on this team that were on the squad 5 years ago. The only players that were on the 2013-14 team that were on the 2008-09 team were the Big 3 + Bonner.

[JPB]

I remember early last season, people saying that Blake has the highest upside of the three, by the fearless way he plays. But then he got hurt, and Sochan was forced to play PG, and started the shooting with one hand, which unleashed all his confidence and skills. Then Malaki was put in the fire also, and he too started getting better with more minutes.

I still think Blake will be a stud. When Ginobili was a rookie, Pop had headaches with his unorthofox style. Blake is fearless, and he believes he is the best out there. He got that dawg in him. Not like Lonnie who deferred. Blake likes to be the man and not shy about it. He could very well be who Spurs starting PG. I’m excited what he brings next season. Hopefully he has added more muscle weight to absorb contacts finishing. I’m really rooting for this kid.

That's precisely Blake's problem (and why people may oversestimate him), realizing he isn't as good as he thinks he is right now and not forcing trying things that he can't do or just don't work... Having that "dog" in you is good if you actually have the talent to go with, otherwise you're just a scrub trying to be a star. he's just not an NBA player now, on a tanking team maybe but not in a team trying to become relevant...

He has a long way to go and needs to focus on defense first and facilitate things rather than creating since just he just can't finish and maybe never will (he can become mediocre at best). Get some confidence doings the basic, little things while you work on your weaknesses. and maybe realize your ceiling isn't maybe a star but a backup or third string PG, or you won't last long in this league... There's nothing right now that suggests Wesley can become a starter in this league... not even det dawg.

[Guru of Nothing]

well a shooting guard needs to be able to shoot. I think Blake has the potential to be a better playmaker than Dejounte Murray

The Antonio Daniels comparison is strong in my mind.

[rascal]

well a shooting guard needs to be able to shoot. I think Blake has the potential to be a better playmaker than Dejounte Murray

Blake doesn't look like a pg to me. Looks like a raw, still needs work on finishing at the rim and shooting sg. Has speed and attacks like a shooting guard, Ivey lite.

[TD 21]

I think this is a great way to think about it, but I'd drop Vassell down to Possibly and Collins & Jones down to unlikely. Maybe even Johnson too. 5 years is a long team, especially for a team that isn't very good.

There are exactly 0 players on this team that were on the squad 5 years ago. The only players that were on the 2013-14 team that were on the 2008-09 team were the Big 3 + Bonner.

Fair enough. The odds are definitely against the "possibly" group, but they stand reasonable chances.

My logic with Vassell is his malleability + premium position (wing).

The difference between now and 5 years ago, is this isn't an aging, aimless team anymore and had they not been in the situation they were, I have no doubt White and Poeltl would have been long tenured Spurs.

[rascal]

well a shooting guard needs to be able to shoot. I think Blake has the potential to be a better playmaker than Dejounte Murray

A pg needs to make decisions with the ball and able to setup an offense. Blake doesn't look natural at pg.

[John B]

well a shooting guard needs to be able to shoot. I think Blake has the potential to be a better playmaker than Dejounte Murray

I almost gave up on Murray until adter Demar left. Then finally he clicked. Blake just finished his rookie year. Already his handles and passing were better than Murray on his rookie year, and this is coming from a team without the Big 3 and vets who created structure for Murray.

The thing about Murray was he’s a hardworker, and really tried to get better, similar to Kawhi. I see the same for Blake. I see that dawg in him. So I’m not concern.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am figuring that we are going to resign Jones and bring in a bevy of developmental types few have heard of. We used to do that a lot in the 00s.

[CGD]

I am figuring that we are going to resign Jones and bring in a bevy of developmental types few have heard of. We used to do that a lot in the 00s.

Yeah, that and extend Devon. It’s probably the prudent thing to do in year 1 of Wemby why they take stock of what they have.

[Mr. Body]

I am figuring that we are going to resign Jones and bring in a bevy of developmental types few have heard of. We used to do that a lot in the 00s.

We really don't have the roster spots for that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We really don't have the roster spots for that.

I hear you but there is a backup PG spot ready for some churning.

[RC_Drunkford]

A pg needs to make decisions with the ball and able to setup an offense. Blake doesn't look natural at pg.

neither did Dejounte Murray in his rookie season. Kid is 20, he'll need time

[BackHome]

Yeah I am not worried on Blake I love his confidence as long as your not cocky but to make in this league you got to believe in yourself and your abilities. To me the biggest things that I am looking forward to see him improve on is ability to finish at the rim and just slowing down on offense. On defense he is a dog and as long as he continues that he will not be in Pop's dog house and get playing time

[Mr. Body]

Tbh I think we're collectively overrating Blake a bit being too optimistic. Dude was a 25th pick. Yes, we've done well eventually developing late picks, yes, his attitude send to be completely right for this. I have faith he will be a good player and can have a good career.

But I don't want to depend on Blake Wesley. Not at this point. And depending on him, in any fashion, may be detrimental to his growth.

I am okay with going Jones, Graham, Wesley in the depth chart, with other players carrying playmaking duties here and there.

At some point we need to find real plusses at that position. It would be awesome if Blake is part of that solution, or if Tre becomes a high level starter. But just hanging on their development doesn't seem wise.

[Degoat]

Ever since we got news of the number 1 pick I’ve been thinking of ways the spurs could upgrade the PG position, but like mentioned I think our best option is to roll with what we have tbh. Tre Jones was very solid this year in year 3 getting consistent minutes. Devonte Graham is a shooter who can get hot at any game, and lastly Blake Wesley… I thought he was trash last year, I won’t lie lol but he missed a big chunk because of his meniscus tear and whenever I was watching clips today he has it! Just gotta be patient with him I’m confident he’ll look completely different this year.

[rascal]

The best option is to try to make a trade to upgrade the current roster. PG from the draft with the upside to be the future starter or a physical center or an athletic scoring wing, are needs for the current roster.

pg is a position that needs an upgrade and I'm sure the Spurs have that as the number one priority this off season.


Getting lucky to land Wemby has clouded the perception of Spurstalk with optimism that the Spurs can just go with the team they had last year with only adding Wemby.

[spurraider21]

Luckily it’s a pretty good draft for point guards who can play D. A few solid options

[Rocalcio]

Yeah, so gazing over the drafts back to 2018, the top guard prospects, or at least the ones who got pulled, are players like:

Jalen Suggs
Killian Hayes
Darius Garland
Jaden Ivey
Tyrese Haliburton
etc.

Those were picks scattered around. Haliburton was a miss by almost every team. Great player, obviously, but you can't expect those misses again. Also, not a good defender. Ivey was an expensive pick, not a good defender. Killian Hayes, good defender, good distributor, awful shooter.

It's rare enough to find prospects that are solid defenders and have good skills on the other side. It's incredibly rare to find, say, two or three of them.

You find an Acevedo type later on, but I don't know if that can be counted on.

I said it before but I really think Hayes could be a good fit. His shoot needs to improve, obviously, but he had several games where he was good on that point, so I believe it's fixable. He's young, good distributor and defender as you mentioned, and cherry of the top, he's french. He won't play much next season with Cunningham coming back, so he's expandable for Detroit and we could get him for a cheap deal.

[benfti]

I would love to see Patty Mills end his career in Silver and Black, if he’s going to sit on the end of the bench, it should be in San Antonio. He’d be great in the locker room with this young team.

[mudyez]

Wow, back to back good takes...I like the Hayes and Mills ideas even while probably not both at the same time.

[Davidicus]

I would love to see Patty Mills end his career in Silver and Black, if he’s going to sit on the end of the bench, it should be in San Antonio. He’d be great in the locker room with this young team.

Here here!

[Rocalcio]

One other thing, the Spurs have it seems, always been looking for the right point guard. Tony Parker was the exception. David Robinson went through a myriad of scrubs manning the point (and I am not forgetting Strickland but he was hardly here). Avery Johnson finally stepped in not so much as a top point guard but a steady hand that knew his role. Then post Tony, we had the Dejounte era and now we are back to trying to figure out who the starting point will be again.

During Robinson’s era I remember we were always weak on the PF position.

[FutureMan]

I would love to see Patty Mills end his career in Silver and Black, if he’s going to sit on the end of the bench, it should be in San Antonio. He’d be great in the locker room with this young team.

Almost every trade scenario I draw up for this off-season has Birch for Mills :lol

[Extra Stout]

During Robinson’s era I remember we were alsways weak on the PF position.
J.R. Reid! Will Perdue! :lol

[mo7888]

Almost every trade scenario I draw up for this off-season has Birch for Mills :lol

Birch and Graham + Charlotte pick for Harris and Patty + a Nets 1st this year makes some sense for both teams.

[CGD]

J.R. Reid! Will Perdue! :lol

In the early days Terry Cummings was good, even though by the time he got to us he was already on his last legs (knees actually).

[CGD]

Birch and Graham + Charlotte pick for Harris and Patty + a Nets 1st this year makes some sense for both teams.

That's where i'm at, except i'd like to get away with sending our two SRPs instead of the CHA pick if possible.

[Mr. Body]

Birch and Graham + Charlotte pick for Harris and Patty + a Nets 1st this year makes some sense for both teams.

I feel like our 33 or something else needs to go to them to balance. They might be interested in an SRP next year instead of the 33, as they have no picks that year at all. I agree they'll like the ability to drop salary, but that doesn't seem to be the biggest concern. They're going to trade Royce O'Neal and Dorrian Finney-Smith this year. That might impact things. Joe Harris still has value as a player, too, although he's expensive.

It's a sort of trade I've been pushing into the world.

[mo7888]

I feel like our 33 or something else needs to go to them to balance. They might be interested in an SRP next year instead of the 33, as they have no picks that year at all. I agree they'll like the ability to drop salary, but that doesn't seem to be the biggest concern. They're going to trade Royce O'Neal and Dorrian Finney-Smith this year. That might impact things. Joe Harris still has value as a player, too, although he's expensive.

It's a sort of trade I've been pushing into the world.

It's possible it could take a 2nd added to get it done. One the O'Neal or DFS thing, are they going to move one of them for salary cap space or as buyers by attaching something? I don't see why they'd move either for space because they don't own their own picks going forward. Moving those guys feels like a modified tear-down and I don't think they are going in that direction. Part of the reason I could see them moving one of their picks is to move salary that doesn't really add up to more wins, with the goal being staying under the tax and still trying to field a semi-competitive team. Are they doing something other than that?

[Mr. Body]

It's possible it could take a 2nd added to get it done. One the O'Neal or DFS thing, are they going to move one of them for salary cap space or as buyers by attaching something? I don't see why they'd move either for space because they don't own their own picks going forward. Moving those guys feels like a modified tear-down and I don't think they are going in that direction. Part of the reason I could see them moving one of their picks is to move salary that doesn't really add up to more wins, with the goal being staying under the tax and still trying to field a semi-competitive team. Are they doing something other than that?

I think Brooklyn wants to remain competitive, yeah. They're in a bad place with their own picks. Marks is a seriously good evaluator of bargain talent, in my mind, and think they can do well.

From what I gather, they want to move those extra 3-and-D wings for assets, not as salary dumps, and think they will find suitors. They're good players, just no room for them on the team.

I do think Brooklyn wouldn't mind shedding salary, just don't think that's a priority. They lose a lot of salary after next year. Honestly, other than not controlling their picks, they're not in horrible shape for a rebuild-on-the-fly. They got screwed by their prima donnas, but Bridges looks like a near star who is a good citizen, they have some other pieces, and draft picks from other teams.

I really do think selling them on picks next year is a starting point, though.

[mo7888]

I think Brooklyn wants to remain competitive, yeah. They're in a bad place with their own picks. Marks is a seriously good evaluator of bargain talent, in my mind, and think they can do well.

From what I gather, they want to move those extra 3-and-D wings for assets, not as salary dumps, and think they will find suitors. They're good players, just no room for them on the team.

I do think Brooklyn wouldn't mind shedding salary, just don't think that's a priority. They lose a lot of salary after next year. Honestly, other than not controlling their picks, they're not in horrible shape for a rebuild-on-the-fly. They got screwed by their prima donnas, but Bridges looks like a near star who is a good citizen, they have some other pieces, and draft picks from other teams.

I really do think selling them on picks next year is a starting point, though.

I agree that they would like to balance out their picks by adding some next year. As for O'Neal and DFS, I just don't see them bringing back anything of value unless Brooklyn adds something and I doubt they want to add picks to them. On the salary, I don't think deeply cutting it is a high priority, but I do think they will shed just enough to get under the tax (although they do have until the deadline to accomplish that). I can't see them paying the tax this year.

[Mr. Body]

I agree that they would like to balance out their picks by adding some next year. As for O'Neal and DFS, I just don't see them bringing back anything of value unless Brooklyn adds something and I doubt they want to add picks to them. On the salary, I don't think deeply cutting it is a high priority, but I do think they will shed just enough to get under the tax (although they do have until the deadline to accomplish that). I can't see them paying the tax this year.

Rumors are that Memphis was offering four picks for Bridges last year and two picks for O'Neal. These would have been later first round picks and before everything blew up for them. Take that with a grain of salt.

[mo7888]

Rumors are that Memphis was offering four picks for Bridges last year and two picks for O'Neal. These would have been later first round picks and before everything blew up for them. Take that with a grain of salt.

I definitely see the value in Bridges... cheap contract to boot make him very valuable. I wouldn’t trade him for 4 low firsts either...

[Mr. Body]

I definitely see the value in Bridges... cheap contract to boot make him very valuable. I wouldn’t trade him for 4 low firsts either...

Bridges' name is flying around but I don't think BKN trades him unless it's a king's ransom and that ransom fits them. He's likeable, hard-working, very presentable, wants to be there. I don't quite think he's star level, but that hardly matters. He also played 83 games this season! As a culture fit, he's superb for them.

Anyway, I think they're in alright shape given how devastating the toxic whiny personalities of those three stars were. Like, if Harden leaves Philly -- and now I don't think he will, he's just angling for cash -- they're dead in the water.

[Davidicus]

Definitely go for a promising PG in this years draft.

Also - why not go for Patty Mills? He's in the final year of a $6.8M contract. He'd be a great leadership guy and could help bring up whatever young PG we have, not to mention 3P shooting + spacing with Wemby. If not now, would love to see him return as a FA next Summer. Come on home Patty Melt!

[Mr. Body]

Definitely go for a promising PG in this years draft.

Also - why not go for Patty Mills? He's in the final year of a $6.8M contract. He'd be a great leadership guy and could help bring up whatever young PG we have, not to mention 3P shooting + spacing with Wemby. If not now, would love to see him return as a FA next Summer. Come on home Patty Melt!

If there's room, I'm for Patty coming back. He's basically done as a player, but having him on hand would be excellent.

[AFBlue]

Make Sochan your PG. Problem solved.

[Ariel]

Rumors are that Memphis was offering four picks for Bridges last year and two picks for O'Neal. These would have been later first round picks and before everything blew up for them. Take that with a grain of salt.
Still those will be 20+ picks barring Ja Morant actually goes ahead does something more with his gun than posting stupid videos. I wouldn't trade Bridges, but if they would, just hold Portland for ransom and get #3 + Sharpe + whatever else you can (future pick, so on). Or call Toronto for a swap that gets you OG Anunoby + #13 + future pick. Something like that, were you get proven young players (or at least, somewhat) plus picks, rather than just picks.

[TD 21]

Still those will be 20+ picks barring Ja Morant actually goes ahead does something more with his gun than posting stupid videos. I wouldn't trade Bridges, but if they would, just hold Portland for ransom and get #3 + Sharpe + whatever else you can (future pick, so on). Or call Toronto for a swap that gets you OG Anunoby + #13 + future pick. Something like that, were you get proven young players (or at least, somewhat) plus picks, rather than just picks.

:lmao That sounds like something the Craptors would have the audacity to propose.

From a Trail Blazers perspective, if they're trading the 3rd pick to them, it's got to be Siakam or bust.

[Ariel]

:lmao That sounds like something the Craptors would have the audacity to propose.

From a Trail Blazers perspective, if they're trading the 3rd pick to them, it's got to be Siakam or bust.
I've clearly stated there I wouldn't trade Bridges if I were Brooklyn, I'm using it as an example of a very straight up trade that gives them a replacement plus better assets than the proposed 4 20+ picks from Memphis.

[TD 21]

I've clearly stated there I wouldn't trade Bridges if I were Brooklyn, I'm using it as an example of a very straight up trade that gives them a replacement plus better assets than the proposed 4 20+ picks from Memphis.

Bridges flashed more on ball ability in his short stint as a Net so far than Anunoby has in his entire career. He's also signed long term and far more durable. Not comparable at all.

[Rocalcio]

J.R. Reid! Will Perdue! :lol

Carl Herrera…

[slick'81]

Carl Herrera…


Charles smith

[Rocalcio]

Charles smith

I liked him actually.

Antoine Carr, Cadillac Anderson

[JPB]

Nets are not trading Bridges unless it's a crazy offer no one will pull since he's not a franchise player or something, simply a potential, feel good all star on a poor year.
He could be very valuable on a contender but not worth the prize at the end of the day.

[lefty]

I liked him actually.

Antoine Carr, Cadillac Anderson
Was Terry Cummings bad in San Antonio?

[slick'81]

Was Terry Cummings bad in San Antonio?

after the knee he was still serviceable on offense

[scott]

Was Terry Cummings bad in San Antonio?

Not at all! He put up 22 and 8 his first season with us. In year 2 and 3, when Elliott was starting to increase his presence, he still put up 17 and 8 and 17 and 9. Then he blew out his knee in an offseason pickup game and was never the same (though he still went on to play like 9 more years?).

TC was an epic addition and part of what I refer to as the 1989 Model* that we could consider for Wemby but I tend to agree that we should go slower.

*The 1989 Model was to surround your incoming franchise player with the best team possible. To get TC, the Spurs traded several “young core” assets.

I wouldn’t say it would be like us getting Dame, because TC was a 28-year old two-time All Star when we got him. The best currently analogy I could think of would be if we traded Keldon and Branham for Julius Randall? Maybe that fits? I think those two current Spurs are the most analogous because to get TC we gave up our team leader from the year before (Alvin Robertson) and a promising young building block that was a fringe part of the core (Cadillac Anderson).

[Mitch Cumsteen]

David Robinson never had much help at power forward. He only had Terry Cummings and Tim Duncan.


*The 1989 Model was to surround your incoming franchise player with the best team possible. To get TC, the Spurs traded several “young core” assets.

They traded Alvin Robertson who was a reprobate (albeit a semi-all star level reprobate) and Cadillac Anderson, who had an altogether unforgettable career. In hindsight, the Spurs fleeced the Bucks in that trade.

But regarding the 1989 model, one thing they did do was bring in a past his prime but still able to contribute veteran point guard with championship experience in Maurice Cheeks. That type of guy would be perfect for this team. Of course, they traded Cheeks mid-way through the season for Rod Strickland, but still. it made sense then. It makes sense now.

[aissagholi7981]

Don't look too much into a traditional PG. What team in the playoffs this year had a "true PG"

Everyone is playing out of position, you don't need a CP3 PG anymore.

This should and will be out starting 5 to open the season and Pop will either decide to go traditional or run with it by 1/4 of the season:

Sohan
DV
KJ
Wemby
Collins

That's a damn fun starting 5 that has some serious potential. Stop overthinking and run with it. Defensively we would be great, which is all that matters to the Spurs.

For anyone disagreeing, hard to name 8 teams better than that in the West, just saying.

[exstatic]

David got three really good years of TC at the beginning and 6 years of Duncan at the end. That’s 9 years out of 14. He wasn’t shorted on front court help the way he was shorted on guards.

[Mr. Body]

Vinny fucking Del Negro, man. It was so bad Robinson lead the team in assists per game one year.

[JPB]

Antonio Daniels, man... Imagine Pop doesn't give a second chance to TP before the draft.

[Chomag]

That roster for 1990 Robinson's rookie year was special, they were 1 silly Rod Strickland pass from making it and had they all stayed healthy would have been contending for another 2 or 3 years. I think many newer Spurs fans way underrated it.

I'm hoping we can give Wemby about the same level in talent for his start.

[onechance87]

We need a pg who can shoot 3s....Its been awhile since we had one

[scott]

David Robinson never had much help at power forward. He only had Terry Cummings and Tim Duncan.


They traded Alvin Robertson who was a reprobate (albeit a semi-all star level reprobate) and Cadillac Anderson, who had an altogether unforgettable career. In hindsight, the Spurs fleeced the Bucks in that trade.

But regarding the 1989 model, one thing they did do was bring in a past his prime but still able to contribute veteran point guard with championship experience in Maurice Cheeks. That type of guy would be perfect for this team. Of course, they traded Cheeks mid-way through the season for Rod Strickland, but still. it made sense then. It makes sense now.

In hindsight, sure, but trades are not made in hindsight. At the time, Cadillac had just completed his second season where he put up 14 and 8 on a really bad team, was one year removed from All Rookie 1st Team honors, and was regarded by fans as part of the young core. He was more accomplished than Branham at this point, who I used in my example. Because Cadillac turned out to kind be a bust does not mean he was not valued as a promising young player at the time of the deal. He did have one season after the Spurs where he finished in the Top 10 in rebounds per game, but that is hardly reason to not label him as someone who failed to live up to his early potential.

[Ariel]

I'm hoping we can give Wemby about the same level in talent for his start.
In 1989 David Robinson was 24. Wemby will be 19. The Spurs don't need to give Wemby a similar team right now, they need to give him a BETTER ONE in 2/3 years.

[scott]

In 1989 David Robinson was 24. Wemby will be 19. The Spurs don't need to give Wemby a similar team right now, they need to give him a BETTER ONE in 2/3 years.

Though I was an early proponent of the 1989 model, I am solidly in this camp now. Let’s use this year to “see what we got” and then start the wheeling and dealing next year.

This is of course all hyperbole, but Woj (I believe it was Woj) said the expectation among some in the league is for Wemby to be the league’s best player by year 3. That is the target year for having a truly capable roster around him.

Year 1 - see what we got, but honestly I really think we could still be a playoff team. And honestly I would have said this with drafting any player who can contribute on Sochan’s level this season. We worked to lose a lot of those games last year. Without active win management and finding ourselves on the other side of natural variance, I think we could have easily been a 28-32 win team. I do not think it is crazy to think Wemby is worth a 10 game swing, even if he only plays 65 games. This is with only making minor moves this offseason.

Year 2 - we’ll have seen what we got, we’ll need to then take that data and correct whatever deficiencies we identify. Maybe we are a year 1 playoff team, but PG and C are glaring areas to improve… cool, now we have our assignment for the offseason and the resources at our disposal to make that happen. I believe that can actually start happening around the trade deadline this season.

Year 3 - we don’t need to be title favorites, but we should be realistic contenders for a top 4 seed in the West. Anything short of that, and we are behind schedule IMO.

[exstatic]

Another reason to sit tight is that teams are pissed off that we won again, and not only will we not get any favorable trades, we likely won’t even be offered and fair or equitable trades. Give it a year to cool off, rather than overpaying now.

[Ariel]

Another reason to sit tight is that teams are pissed off that we won again, and not only will we not get any favorable trades, we likely won’t even be offered and fair or equitable trades. Give it a year to cool off, rather than overpaying now.
The same thing was said with Danny Ainge and the Lakers, and they pulled off a great trade. Teams have their own needs and will do what's in their best interest. You just can't come off as desperate, you have to be actively looking for opportunities but willing to hold your ground if the terms are not in your favor. It's all about leverage.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I don't think teams will avoid working with the Spurs at all. The league is really competitive right now, not many great teams (or any), old contenders are in decline. There's nobody wanting to stonewall a Spurs team who is not yet a contender and has stuff people might like to have.

[K...]

Another reason to sit tight is that teams are pissed off that we won again, and not only will we not get any favorable trades, we likely won’t even be offered and fair or equitable trades. Give it a year to cool off, rather than overpaying now.

While true (and teams know we have pick surplus) the league is still over leveraged and teams will be in tear down mode. Deals will be there

[scott]

Yeah, I don't think teams will avoid working with the Spurs at all. The league is really competitive right now, not many great teams (or any), old contenders are in decline. There's nobody wanting to stonewall a Spurs team who is not yet a contender and has stuff people might like to have.

Yeah, I think trying to resign Jak (unless TOR explicitly elects to not resign him) would do more damage to our trading ability than winning the Wemby sweepstakes. Someone was going to have to win that one, and from "insider" reporting it seems like a lot of teams are happy for the league it was us.

[rascal]

Though I was an early proponent of the 1989 model, I am solidly in this camp now. Let’s use this year to “see what we got” and then start the wheeling and dealing next year.

This is of course all hyperbole, but Woj (I believe it was Woj) said the expectation among some in the league is for Wemby to be the league’s best player by year 3. That is the target year for having a truly capable roster around him.

Year 1 - see what we got, but honestly I really think we could still be a playoff team. And honestly I would have said this with drafting any player who can contribute on Sochan’s level this season. We worked to lose a lot of those games last year. Without active win management and finding ourselves on the other side of natural variance, I think we could have easily been a 28-32 win team. I do not think it is crazy to think Wemby is worth a 10 game swing, even if he only plays 65 games. This is with only making minor moves this offseason.

Year 2 - we’ll have seen what we got, we’ll need to then take that data and correct whatever deficiencies we identify. Maybe we are a year 1 playoff team, but PG and C are glaring areas to improve… cool, now we have our assignment for the offseason and the resources at our disposal to make that happen. I believe that can actually start happening around the trade deadline this season.

Year 3 - we don’t need to be title favorites, but we should be realistic contenders for a top 4 seed in the West. Anything short of that, and we are behind schedule IMO.

Can't go into the off season with that ultra conservative mindset. The goal is to look to improve the team at any time.

[lefty20]

1662224645272076289

[BatManu20]

Lol Kyrie will never be a Spur. Ever.

[lefty20]

I'd give it exactly 0.0% chance of happening. That's why I was surprised to see that tweet.

[Mr. Body]

One sucky thing about life nowadays is how bookies are held up as gurus or predictors of events instead of people baiting you into wasting your money.

[mo7888]

1662224645272076289

Between this and the Wembanyama for Chet and everything okc has, it feels like bizarro world today..

[CGD]

The Kyrie camp just trying to stir interest in him. No way in hell this ever happens

[SpurSpike]

Lets just steal Austin Reaves from the Lakers. Lol.

[scott]

1662224645272076289

The life of a bookie is a good one… you get to set odds for an infinite set of possibilities, no matter how remote the chances of them happening, and make a little money from some sucker who thinks that sounds like a good deal.

I’m setting the Spurs as the favorite to trade for Giannis this summer, and it pays 10:1. Any takers?

[ambchang]

The 1989 model was a disaster. It out robinson in a win now mode right out of the gate and when it didn’t taken the first year or two, the surrounding cast collapsed and the team was devoid of any young talent. The team was too good to draft decent players because robinson dragged them to 50 wins year in and out, but the surrounding cast was so flawed they get exploited year in and out from 1991 to 1995 in the playoffs.

Don’t do it at all.

The spurs are in much better shape now than then. The boatload of draft picks will turn into one superstar either through draft or trades and a bunch of role players that can support the current core plus that future superstar.

[ajh18]

If we got word that Scoot would be available at 3, and some team offered to send an all-star to Portland (like a Bradley Beal) in exchange for 5 1sts from us, with us getting pick 3 to draft Henderson, do you pull the trigger?

Obviously with fillers to make cap work.

[Extra Stout]

If we got word that Scoot would be available at 3, and some team offered to send an all-star to Portland (like a Bradley Beal) in exchange for 5 1sts from us, with us getting pick 3 to draft Henderson, do you pull the trigger?

Obviously with fillers to make cap work.
You’d have to be convinced Scoot had Russell Westbrook’s athleticism with Jason Kid’s brain.

[Ariel]

If we got word that Scoot would be available at 3, and some team offered to send an all-star to Portland (like a Bradley Beal) in exchange for 5 1sts from us, with us getting pick 3 to draft Henderson, do you pull the trigger?

Obviously with fillers to make cap work.
No, that's superstar value and Scoot has proven NOTHING yet. Furthermore, our 1sts are all pretty good (own, unrestricted from Atlanta, lightly protected from Toronto and Chicago -somewhat-). If they were 1sts like OKC is flooding the league with (lottery protected, far away in time) then MAYBE. But deals like this are the reason franchises end up hopeless for a decade or more. If the opportunity isn't there, DON'T FORCE THE ISSUE, just WAIT... do your homework and stay vigilant and the opportunity will come.

[Mr. Body]

If his name was Tim Henderson and he played for Iowa State last year, none of this hype shit would be going on.

[EricB]

Athletic writer talking about the Raptors and what they should do this off-season proposed Malachi Flynn for one of the Spurs surplus second rounders.

I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t watch one Raptors game this past season and have zero idea about him.

[Mr. Body]

Athletic writer talking about the Raptors and what they should do this off-season proposed Malachi Flynn for one of the Spurs surplus second rounders.

I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t watch one Raptors game this past season and have zero idea about him.

You're only allowed one Malaki per team.

[EricB]

You're only allowed one Malaki per team.


that new CBA is tricky

[Mr. Body]

Personally, if the Spurs keep the 33 and they want a PG, I'd go for Marcus Sasser or similar. I don't think they'll use the pick in the 40s.

[mo7888]

If we got word that Scoot would be available at 3, and some team offered to send an all-star to Portland (like a Bradley Beal) in exchange for 5 1sts from us, with us getting pick 3 to draft Henderson, do you pull the trigger?

Obviously with fillers to make cap work.

I love Scoot!

Absolute No from me...

[TD 21]

If they can move Graham, I can see them targeting Mills or Joseph and if they can trade into the late lottery to draft a PG/combo guard, that probably becomes even more likely.

[Mr. Body]

If they can move Graham, I can see them targeting Mills or Joseph and if they can trade into the late lottery to draft a PG/combo guard, that probably becomes even more likely.

Depending on their moves, the Nets may be happy to just let the Spurs take Mills to be rid of his contract. Something nominal with a SRP could be done perhaps.

[BacktoBasics]

Graham isn’t a bad chucker. Good trade filler too. He’s a good asset right now.

[BatManu20]

I like Sasser’s game a lot. He’s got a lot of skill and can stroke it from 3. A little smaller than you’d like obviously at 6’2, which is why he’ll fall to the back end of the First Round (that and his age), but he’s a guy who I think can definitely be an impact player in this league down the line. He competes hard on the defensive end too which you like to see. I don’t think he makes it to pick 33 though. Think he goes in the 25-30 range.

[BatManu20]

It’s too bad Markquis Nowell is like 5’8. He was one of the best PG’s in CBB this season on 18/8/3/3 averages. Kid could really fill it up offensively and is a great passer. He showed out big time in the tournament too. Big shot taker, big shot maker. Plays with a ton of heart. He won’t even sniff the league at his size though. For shame.

NmIepCXsbFE

[TD 21]

Depending on their moves, the Nets may be happy to just let the Spurs take Mills to be rid of his contract. Something nominal with a SRP could be done perhaps.

I agree, but then it'd be a question of necessity, both in terms of archetype and allocation of roster spots.

That's why my sense is Mills would be more so pending what happens with Graham.

[BatManu20]

As much as I’d love Patty back in SA, he seems pretty redundant with Devontae Graham on the roster. I actually though Graham played pretty well down the stretch of the season for us. He’s not the future obv, but I’m kind of intrigued to see what he can do with more playing time.

[Mr. Body]

As much as I’d love Patty back in SA, he seems pretty redundant with Devontae Graham on the roster. I actually though Graham played pretty well down the stretch of the season for us. He’s not the future obv, but I’m kind of intrigued to see what he can do with more playing time.

Agree, but Mills would be sort of the Dieng of the team next year. They need to hit the salary floor somehow, too.

[BatManu20]

Agree, but Mills would be sort of the Dieng of the team next year. They need to hit the salary floor somehow, too.

Fair enough. Would be pretty cool seeing Patty back in SA tbh. And he’d get some PT as much as we rest guys. I’m all for it. Better than him rotting away on BKN’s bench.

[exstatic]

If we got word that Scoot would be available at 3, and some team offered to send an all-star to Portland (like a Bradley Beal) in exchange for 5 1sts from us, with us getting pick 3 to draft Henderson, do you pull the trigger?

Obviously with fillers to make cap work.

No. That’s the haul for an All NBA player, not a prospect. That’s more than BKN got for KD.

[scott]

It’s too bad Markquis Nowell is like 5’8. He was one of the best PG’s in CBB this season on 18/8/3/3 averages. Kid could really fill it up offensively and is a great passer. He showed out big time in the tournament too. Big shot taker, big shot maker. Plays with a ton of heart. He won’t even sniff the league at his size though. For shame.

NmIepCXsbFE

We should take him at 44 for the Wemby/Nowell photo ops alone.

[Sentenza]

there is a PG, who is very good, very young, and who may be able to play more for his club...Ja Morant...let's keep an eye on this file!

[Philthemage]

Probably not a popular opinion but I feel SA would be a good place for Jalen Suggs. I loved watching him play in college and he really had that playmaking vision. But not sure if that's been tainted in his years in Orlando now.

[Degoat]

Probably not a popular opinion but I feel SA would be a good place for Jalen Suggs. I loved watching him play in college and he really had that playmaking vision. But not sure if that's been tainted in his years in Orlando now.

I would LOVE Jalen Suggs, I don’t think they’re ready to move on just yet unless it’s for good value

[Philthemage]

I would LOVE Jalen Suggs, I don’t think they’re ready to move on just yet unless it’s for good value

I think they've put him in a bad spot, forcing him to be an off guard, and he'd be way more comfortable in like a George Hill role.

[rascal]

There are three players I wouldn't mind the spurs drafting if they can move up into the 16th slot from a trade with Utah.

Jordan Hawkins, Kobe Bufkin or Jalen Hood-Shifino. One or more of these players will be there at 16. And getting 16 won't cost you a large haul of future draft picks.

They will address one of the biggest needs pg or shooting with any of these picks.

[mo7888]

There are three players I wouldn't mind the spurs drafting if they can move up into the 16th slot from a trade with Utah.

Jordan Hawkins, Kobe Bufkin or Jalen Hood-Shifino. One or more of these players will be there at 16. And getting 16 won't cost you a large haul of future draft picks.

They will address one of the biggest needs pg or shooting with any of these picks.

Keyonte George
Gregory Jackson II
Kris Murray
Rayan Rupert
Bilal Coulibaly
Kobe Bufkin
Jordan Hawkins
Dariq Whitehead
Jalen Hood-Schifino

Of these 9 players I think at least 6 of them will be available at 16. I'd be happy with any of them for different reasons. Now, I'd prefer PG or shooting be an attribute of the pick if I were ranking them for what the Spurs need, but ultimately there are cases to be made for any of them.

[scott]

Keyonte George
Gregory Jackson II
Kris Murray
Rayan Rupert
Bilal Coulibaly
Kobe Bufkin
Jordan Hawkins
Dariq Whitehead
Jalen Hood-Schifino

Of these 9 players I think at least 6 of them will be available at 16. I'd be happy with any of them for different reasons. Now, I'd prefer PG or shooting be an attribute of the pick if I were ranking them for what the Spurs need, but ultimately there are cases to be made for any of them.

Picking for the Spurs, how would you rank those 9, specifically?

[mo7888]

Picking for the Spurs, how would you rank those 9, specifically?

Hawkins
Bufkin
Rupert
Murray
George
Coulibaly
Hood-Schifino
Jackson
Whitehead

That's not how I have them on my Board, but that's probably where I'd put them on our Board.

[Dejounte]

With another 1st (assuming it’s anywhere between 8th pick and lower… i don’t believe the Spurs have any assets to move that high and even the 8th pick is being generous):

Hawkins
Rupert
Keyonte
Tie between Wallace and Black

[Ariel]

Would take them in the late lottery/late teens:
Keyonte George
Dariq Whitehead (if health checks out)
Kobe Bufkin
Jordan Hawkins

Would take them but in the 20s:
Rayan Rupert
Bilal Coulibaly

Don't want them:
Kris Murray
Hood Schifino
GG Jackson

[Mr. Body]

Chopping it up on other threads really has cemented the thinking that the Spurs need to be aggressive in this draft. There are other solutions to the PG problem, but they aren't looking fantastic.

1. Go with what we have into the future, hope for the best.
2. Get a starting PG through free agency.
3. Draft a starting PG. (Do so sooner than later.)

I am a Tre Jones supporter. I don't think he's a longterm starter. Both his height and shooting limit him, but retaining him this summer is vital. I'm honestly not a big optimist in Wesley. Develop him, certainly, but I think he's more of a SG than the point you need.

I do think Sochan and others can initiate the offense. I don't think a pure playmaker or a pure shooter is necessary. My big thing is we need a point of attack defender. That's my key skill in PGs. Shooting is second. Playmaking in the Spurs system can be taught (more or less).

Problems are:

1. Next draft looks pretty weak in PGs. Of course, no way of telling until games start. I don't want to count on getting the solution here.
2. Free agency doesn't look promising. Aging and problematic players this year. Only a guy like Dejounte Murray is on the horizon, possibly, and he's going to want a bag. Free agents are expensive.
3. The team is absolutely jammed with players right now. I know Barlow is not assured, or KBD. But I don't think guys like Branham or Wesley or Mamu are assured. We have a lot of picks coming up.

Really think the play here is getting aggressive with the draft this year. As discussed, there are probably amounts the Spurs FO is willing to pay. Maybe it's for certain players, or maybe they cap out across the board.

Anthony Black
Cason Wallace
Kobe Bufkin
Jalen Hood-Schifino

Those, I think, are the 'aggressive' targets, guys who will be in the lottery or toward 20.

I don't think they'll go after Keyonte George or Nick Smith, Jr. Neither rates as a point/facilitator and both have big questions. Both might fall into the 20s, though. It's hard to imagine either as a starting point guard, and I want defense.

Later players include Colby Jones, Marcus Sasser, Andre Jackson, and Amari Bailey. Of the last three, Bailey seems to have the most upside. I don't think Sasser or Jackson is a real solution so much as a depth guy.

Anyway, I think this is a serious question going forward. There are no great solutions on the immediate horizon and I'm curious to see how the team tries to solve it.

[BackHome]

Moving up to pick Black or Wallace I think will cost way more then what the Spurs will want to pay. To be honest people getting a little to greedy we just got the number 1 pick in the draft with a generational talent and people want to try and find another top starter in the same draft. As far as a PG I would like to find one but if not I am very confident we can find one in the draft in 23/25. Also, it is just not we get Wemby and a starting PG were set we still need to find a lottery SF and a defensive Center in the next couple of drafts so be careful of just giving away picks.

[Mr. Body]

Moving up to pick Black or Wallace I think will cost way more then what the Spurs will want to pay. To be honest people getting a little to greedy we just got the number 1 pick in the draft with a generational talent and people want to try and find another top starter in the same draft. As far as a PG I would like to find one but if not I am very confident we can find one in the draft in 23/25. Also, it is just not we get Wemby and a starting PG were set we still need to find a lottery SF and a defensive Center in the next couple of drafts so be careful of just giving away picks.

Where else are you getting your point guard if you don't get it in this draft? How do you know a good defensive point guard will be available in the next two years? Why wouldn't you be aggressive when you know the player you might need is there?

[Bruno]

Chopping it up on other threads really has cemented the thinking that the Spurs need to be aggressive in this draft. There are other solutions to the PG problem, but they aren't looking fantastic.


It's hazardous to make projection past this summer. Spurs will have nice trade assets at the 2024 trade deadline (expiring/cap space and first round picks), likely a lottery pick in 2024 and a lot of cap space to go after free agents next summer. They aren't in a bleak situation at all.

Focusing on this summer:

As you said, the answer won't come through free agency. Fred VanVleet or D'Angelo Russell aren't the answer. Tre or #33 pick being starter caliber players is somewhat unlikely.

To get a mid first round pick, the perfect entry point would be Miami at #18. They aren't in a good situation luxury tax wise and Spurs could give them a lot of breathing room this summer by taking Lowry $30M expiring contract.
A trade like Lowry + #18 for Birch (or Graham) + #33 would just make sense. Spurs could add some assets (#44, future second round pick, Charlotte pick?) to sweeten the deal.

[Mr. Body]

The Miami pick is interesting.

The Spurs really have to take a good hack at it next week. I don't see any FA answers on the horizon and it's impossible to know what happens in future drafts.

[CGD]

We get it bro, you LOVE Anthony Black

[Dejounte]

There are Anthony Blacks that come around every year and it’s just a question of if the Spurs want to give up assets now to develop one now or if they can be patient and wait another year. IMO, the Anthony Black last year was Jalen Williams and I don’t even think Black will reach that level. There will be another Black next year. And if we’re being truly honest, guys in the lottery normally have decent stats (if they don’t have otherworldly athleticism) and Black’s numbers are quite underwhelming… he doesnt even reach .200 WS/40.

[Mr. Body]

We get it bro, you LOVE Anthony Black

Hmm... Didn't say that in this thread.

[Mr. Body]

There are Anthony Blacks that come around every year and it’s just a question of if the Spurs want to give up assets now to develop one now or if they can be patient and wait another year. IMO, the Anthony Black last year was Jalen Williams and I don’t even think Black will reach that level. There will be another Black next year. And if we’re being truly honest, guys in the lottery normally have decent stats and Black’s numbers are quite underwhelming… he doesnt even reach .200 WS/40.

Jalen Williams is not a point guard.

And the thread isn't about Black. It's about getting a defensive point guard who is a potential starter. I listed at least four of these, possibly six.

Do people just not know how to read? Is that the issue?

[Dejounte]

Jalen Williams is not a point guard.

And the thread isn't about Black. It's about getting a defensive point guard who is a potential starter. I listed at least four of these, possibly six.

Do people just not know how to read? Is that the issue?

Maybe the world doesn’t revolve around you? I see mention of Black’s name in the post before mine and I’m free to post about it. Fuck off.

[mo7888]

Theres also the option of trading for one thats on a current roster. I'm not really thinking of anyone in particular, but I'm just saying that the way the new cba is going to effect teams may make someone available that we aren't thinking about.

My preference though is trading for a PG in this draft. You'll hate this, but my prder of preference (I'm leaving out Scoot and Amen because I don't see us moving that high) is:

NSJ
Wallace
Black
Bufkin
JHS

[Degoat]

If we move up I really like taking the upside of Keyonte George, JHS, or Nick Smith. (In that order I think)
I dont think the spurs honestly view the need of an actual PG, just a combo guard that can do a little bit of everything

[rankingtear]

Should go after Keyonte he is still the best shooter and shot maker among combo guards. We underrating his size and frame at 205, he probably plays at 210. That prevents him from being a huge liability on defense.

[Mr. Body]

If we move up I really like taking the upside of Keyonte George, JHS, or Nick Smith. (In that order I think)
I dont think the spurs honestly view the need of an actual PG, just a combo guard that can do a little bit of everything

I agree that I am pushing more for a 'point guard' distributor. Not even Parker was that kind of player. If the team thinks those guys you mention are good targets, then by all means. I think George might not be up to snuff on the defensive end. That's really what I'm after as much as anything.

[exstatic]

There are Anthony Blacks that come around every year and it’s just a question of if the Spurs want to give up assets now to develop one now or if they can be patient and wait another year. IMO, the Anthony Black last year was Jalen Williams and I don’t even think Black will reach that level. There will be another Black next year. And if we’re being truly honest, guys in the lottery normally have decent stats (if they don’t have otherworldly athleticism) and Black’s numbers are quite underwhelming… he doesnt even reach .200 WS/40.

Jalen Williams was a 21 YO Junior. Black is a 19 YO freshman.

Scoot's WS/48 = -0.054

[Mr. Body]

Maybe the world doesn’t revolve around you? I see mention of Black’s name in the post before mine and I’m free to post about it. Fuck off.

You okay? Maybe sit this one out?

[Dejounte]

You okay? Maybe sit this one out?

Typical Body, act like an ass and then deflect by saying something sassy. Always trying to “win the internet” by being a keyboard warrior.

[Dejounte]

Jalen Williams was a 21 YO Junior. Black is a 19 YO freshman.

Scoot's WS/48 = -0.054

You know how I feel about age already, and you know I disagree with you about Scoot’s athleticism (that you downplay it heavily). So we’re gonna go into a rabbit hole again here with me being open minded about how these players will end up while you go on about knowing which players will be successful and which won’t. Just a ridiculous type of discussion reeking of arrogance about one’s own judgment about NBA players (you and that fuckboi Body)

[buttsR4rebounding]

As this debate has evolved I have come to the conclusion that the guy to target is Bufkin. He plays good D, has a great feel for the game, finishes a crazy high percentage at the rim and can shoot the 3 both C&S and off the dribble. And he could very well be available outside the lottery. He has good positional size at 6'5" and just has the feel of being a great fit for the Spurs.

[exstatic]

You know how I feel about age already, and you know I disagree with you about Scoot’s athleticism (that you downplay it heavily). So we’re gonna go into a rabbit hole again here with me being open minded about how these players will end up while you go on about knowing which players will be successful and which won’t. Just a ridiculous type of discussion reeking of arrogance about one’s own judgment about NBA players (you and that fuckboi Body)

I simply took a criteria that you applied as a negative to Black, and applied it to Scoot. Has nothing to do with athleticism.

I know your stance on age, just as you know mine, but the fact is that the overwhelming majority of FRPs are 18/19, not 21/22, so I think the NBA kind of sees it more my way. If you stick around in college until you're 21/22, you're stronger and more physically developed, but it doesn't make you a better star prospect, IMO. I don't see it being much different from the 20YO Thompsons playing against 15/16 YO kids.

[Mr. Body]

As this debate has evolved I have come to the conclusion that the guy to target is Bufkin. He plays good D, has a great feel for the game, finishes a crazy high percentage at the rim and can shoot the 3 both C&S and off the dribble. And he could very well be available outside the lottery. He has good positional size at 6'5" and just has the feel of being a great fit for the Spurs.

100%. He's mocked all over the place from the 20s into maybe even 9. He'll go somewhere in between.

I want to look more at Wallace. I've kind of determined him as not the right fit, but that's unfair.

As for Hood-Schifino, I watched the Hoosiers this year. I strongly felt like he'd be a lotto pick if he stayed another year. There were flashes. He's big, under control, has some nice moments, and then all that would disappear.

One thing that happens in the NBA, that I feel is under-recognized, is that players just don't get time to develop. It's one thing to work out in gyms and against your teammates, it's another to have play after play in a game environment. A lot of players never get that game time stuff because they aren't good enough. Or, if they do, it's in very specific roles and duties for very limited number of plays.

This is why a lot of players crap out, I feel. Some cannot scale down. They're volume shooters who cannot become specialists. Others have terrible flaws, but could become good if they could work them out. One great thing about the Spurs these last years is that they've taken flawed players and really worked with them. We're seeing it with Wesley now. I feel the same about Hood-Schifino. If a team works with him, sets aside non-productive time and does it on and off the court, he could be what you need.

[LeBowen]

What do you guys think about Garland? He's just 23 and is a perfect point guard for modern NBA.
His size wouldn't be an issue considering the rest of our projected roster.

The only issue is that he already signed a max which kicks in this summer. 33-36-38-41-44 million over the next 5 seasons.
Still, the cap will rise and he'll definitely be worth at least 30 a year.

22/8 on great efficency while playing together with chucker Mitchell and poor spacing. Could easily be a 25/10 guy for us.

He's a bad fit on the Cavs because him and Mitchell can't defend shit together and they can't afford to have two of them on 60+ million per season with no good wings on the roster and Mobley's extension coming up.

Keldon can't land us a good point guard in the draft, but I'm sure Cavs would be willing to take him for Garland and Spurs wouldn't have to give up much else because of Keldon's team-friendly deal that would serve as an additiona asset for the Cavs.

Other than Garland, maybe we could take advantage of dumpster fire in Minnesota next summer if Edwards asks out, but they'd ask for a lot. Beyond those two, there aren't any realistic deals to be had that fit the timeline.
And I'm not going to pretend that I know much about the upcoming drafts.