Spurs looking to acquire another 1st?

[ernest787]

Figured I'd post. Not sure of the credibility but would be awesome if they can get back into the first

https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1661418280123260928?s=20

[rjv]

with portland, the magic and dallas all possibly willing to part with some 1st round picks, i'm sure we'll start reading seeing all sorts of trade suggestions-and perhaps some speculation as the draft gets closer.

[DAF86]

Was this one of the threads explaining how the priority is on PF/C over PG Extra Stout?

[DAF86]

Pull a Texans and trade for Scoot, imho.

[Mr. Body]

It's a rumor that has been floating around and isn't terribly surprising. Not sure what that site is, but probably just reflecting general news and the same sort of speculation you see in other threads here. No one knows what the Spurs will do other than draft Wembanyama.

[exstatic]

Was this one of the threads explaining how the priority is on PF/C over PG Extra Stout?

OMG,Rafael Barlowe from NBA Big Board!

[Extra Stout]

OMG,Rafael Barlowe from NBA Big Board!

Is Sam Amico more or less credible than Barlowe? Asking for a friend.

[rascal]

Rafael Barlowe is reading Spurstalk.

[Mr. Body]

I mean, it's not a huge mystery. The Spurs have a lot of draft capital, two SRPs this year, a positional need. It writes itself. If it said they intend to transition into playing pickle ball instead of basketball, that's a scoop.

[Extra Stout]

What would #33, #44, and the Hornets pick next year get? Maybe Brooklyn at #22?

[baseline bum]

What would #33, #44, and the Hornets pick next year get? Maybe Brooklyn at #22?

That would be a steal since the Charlotte pick is protected to 16 over the next two years and converts to two seconds after that.

[spurraider21]

That would be a steal since the Charlotte pick is protected to 16 over the next two years and converts to two seconds after that.
charlotte pick was top 16 protected in 2023, but in 2024 and 2025 its top 14

[baseline bum]

charlotte pick was top 16 protected in 2023, but in 2024 and 2025 its top 14

Nice. Damn I was remembering it 17 this year, then 16 the next two.

[spurraider21]

Nice. Damn I was remembering it 17 this year, then 16 the next two.
https://media.tenor.com/R90Ed5aPTe4AAAAd/tim-duncan.gif

[Degoat]

That cite use to belong to Chad Ford, it was just called NBA Big Board with Chad Ford, he retired like two years ago and Barlowe took over. It’s actually pretty credible, I listen to his podcast occasionally.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659638164028366849?s=46

[Extra Stout]

Has Rupert declared for the draft?

[Maddog]

There's lot reports of uncertain veracity about the Spurs seeking interviews with players projected to be in the first round.

[exstatic]

Is Sam Amico more or less credible than Barlowe? Asking for a friend.

He's a knock off of Sam Amick.

[Mr. Body]

I'd be once again impressed if the Spurs float interest in certain players then go somewhere else. I can see the interest in Rupert as a defensive project in the 20-30 range.

[SpurSpike]

Has Rupert declared for the draft?

Looks like it, here is a little article about him.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/36232856/rayan-rupert-no-17-overall-prospect-enter-nba-draft

[ernest787]

That cite use to belong to Chad Ford, it was just called NBA Big Board with Chad Ford, he retired like two years ago and Barlowe took over. It’s actually pretty credible, I listen to his podcast occasionally.

Awesome to hear thus site has some credibility. I know people have speculated about this but nice to see someone seemingly reporting it.

Knowing the spurs this could all be a smokescreen but we will see i guess

[Extra Stout]

Looks like it, here is a little article about him.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/36232856/rayan-rupert-no-17-overall-prospect-enter-nba-draft
They’d have to move up maybe as far as late lottery to ensure they get him if they want him.

[objective]

Barlows was at the combineI think and does have some agent contacts, so it's possible he heard some things

[DAF86]

OMG,Rafael Barlowe from NBA Big Board!


Is Sam Amico more or less credible than Barlowe? Asking for a friend.

Were the other links directly from the Spurs management mouths?

[TrueSpursFan]

They’d have to move up maybe as far as late lottery to ensure they get him if they want him.

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

im not sure why it’s not embedding

[SpurSpike]

They’d have to move up maybe as far as late lottery to ensure they get him if they want him.

Na, I was reading somewhere that he was projected possible lottery when that article was written but his stock has since then plummeted. He is now projected late 1st or even 2nd round.

[JPB]

If Rafael Barlowe of NBA Big Board says so... Thanks Ty Jäger and his 5K followers for reporting that solid info.

Lots of articles or tweets from obscure pundits assumign stuff to get some attention. Reality is they know nothing, just guessing.

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

im not sure why it’s not embedding

Why'd dude say interest in Rupert suggests he pushes Jones? Rupert is in no way a point guard.

[Extra Stout]

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

im not sure why it’s not embedding

Hmmm… wonder why he’s plummeting. If the Spurs like him and he’s available at 33, then great.

[Mr. Body]

Hmmm… wonder why he’s plummeting. If the Spurs like him and he’s available at 33, then great.

Nah, he doesn't even know Rupert's position. And I didn't see Rupert on many major mocks as he claims.

[exstatic]

Barlows was at the combineI think and does have some agent contacts, so it's possible he heard some things

Agents have been known to use lightly or non-connected media to spread false rumors.

"OMG, Nic Batum has a heart condition!"

[scott]

I'd be once again impressed if the Spurs float interest in certain players then go somewhere else. I can see the interest in Rupert as a defensive project in the 20-30 range.

This is the source of my recurring nightmare that we pick Amen @ #1.

[Dejounte]

https://instagram.com/timmartinbball?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Wemby and Rayan share the same trainer.

[Atl Spur]

We hardly ever reveal our intentions….. nothing to see here.

[couchman]

I've seen a mock where we trade Keldon to grab #6 and get Ausar.
Take it with a grain of salt but these are sometimes interesting to see how much people value players and picks.

[rjv]

I've seen a mock where we trade Keldon to grab #6 and get Ausar.
Take it with a grain of salt but these are sometimes interesting to see how much people value players and picks.

i'm pretty sure that was on bleacher report; it also has the spurs taking on nurkic and keon johnson.

[couchman]

Yeah that's the one

[NASpurs]

We hardly ever reveal our intentions….. nothing to see here.

I actually agree with you for once.

[Extra Stout]

We hardly ever reveal our intentions….. nothing to see here.
What you say is true, but patiently waiting in the Zen Garden for that which is unknowable in advance is not fun. Tranquil, perhaps, wise, even, but not fun.
To speculate about the unknowable, to pretend to have special knowledge, to argue about it tirelessly, that is fun.

[JPB]

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

im not sure why it’s not embedding

Click on the twitter icon in the advanced settings to insert the link.

https://twitter.com/EvanTownsend_/status/1659643480438612013

[duncan2150]

Barlows was at the combineI think and does have some agent contacts, so it's possible he heard some things

+1 he's a good source imo

[JPB]

+1 he's a good source imo

There's a whole bunch of people at the combine and no one knows what the spurs intend to do, starting by agents. How would they? This is not a tupperware reunion where eveyone knows and shares NBA GMs intentions... Nobody knows what the spurs want to do, except the spurs, they don't scream it around... And in the case spurs would have given their word to an agent, then ofc he wouldn't precisley talk. this is a business, not kindergarten.

Tell me Woj, windhorst or Givony and we'll talk but even themselves have no idea.

[Dejounte]

Yet if it was Bilal the rumor was about, some people here would go gaga and easily believe it

[Uriel]

I would be thrilled if we could convert our two late 2nd rounders into a late 1st round pick, but I think it would be a mistake to trade our future first rounder from Charlotte to do that.

I would take the 17th overall pick in the 2024 draft over the 22nd overall pick in the 2023 draft.

[mo7888]

I would be thrilled if we could convert our two late 2nd rounders into a late 1st round pick, but I think it would be a mistake to trade our future first rounder from Charlotte to do that.

I would take the 17th overall pick in the 2024 draft over the 22nd overall pick in the 2023 draft.

I wouldn't....this draft looks much stronger.

[Extra Stout]

I would be thrilled if we could convert our two late 2nd rounders into a late 1st round pick, but I think it would be a mistake to trade our future first rounder from Charlotte to do that.

I would take the 17th overall pick in the 2024 draft over the 22nd overall pick in the 2023 draft.
That’s not the correct comparison. The comparison is a ~70% chance at a pick somewhere between 15 and 30 at some point over the next three years versus the 22nd pick now.

[scott]

Certainly there is some time value of picks that needs to be taken into consideration. In the NFL, the rule of thumb is a round higher (a 4th rounder this year is worth a 3rd rounder next year). Of course the NBA is a lot different, but I'd have to imagine teams have a general idea of the time value of picks - of course there is the added wrinkle of uncertainty of where a pick may land in the future.

[duncan2150]

There's a whole bunch of people at the combine and no one knows what the spurs intend to do, starting by agents. How would they? This is not a tupperware reunion where eveyone knows and shares NBA GMs intentions... Nobody knows what the spurs want to do, except the spurs, they don't scream it around... And in the case spurs would have given their word to an agent, then ofc he wouldn't precisley talk. this is a business, not kindergarten.

Tell me Woj, windhorst or Givony and we'll talk but even themselves have no idea.

Man, i'm just sayig he's a good source for me, that doesn't mean what people told him is exact...relax

[JuneJive]

Indy has picks #26 #29 #32, and of course their #7 which they will use.

But one of those latter one's will be on the table.

[Mr. Body]

Certainly there is some time value of picks that needs to be taken into consideration. In the NFL, the rule of thumb is a round higher (a 4th rounder this year is worth a 3rd rounder next year). Of course the NBA is a lot different, but I'd have to imagine teams have a general idea of the time value of picks - of course there is the added wrinkle of uncertainty of where a pick may land in the future.

Teams tend to greatly value current picks over future picks. That is, of the same round and vaguely of the same range. Teams need to produce new players and buzz for fans, GMs tend to like to keep their jobs.

As for the Spurs, there's opportunity cost of waiting to pick players next year over this year (if we could trade next year's picks for this year). We know what players are available, we get another year to develop the pick(s) after selection, etc. Next year is filled with mystery boxes, like an advent calendar. If you like to roll the dice, you might take next year's 17 over this year's 22, but if you are comfortable with the players available this year, you take this year.

[TrueSpursFan]

Click on the twitter icon in the advanced settings to insert the link.

https://twitter.com/EvanTownsend_/status/1659643480438612013

Thanks!

[Russ]

There's a whole bunch of people at the combine and no one knows what the spurs intend to do, starting by agents. How would they? This is not a tupperware reunion where eveyone knows and shares NBA GMs intentions... Nobody knows what the spurs want to do, except the spurs, they don't scream it around... And in the case spurs would have given their word to an agent, then ofc he wouldn't precisley talk. this is a business, not kindergarten.

Tell me Woj, windhorst or Givony and we'll talk but even themselves have no idea.

The one telltale sign that the Spurs might be interested in a player -- they don't invite him for a work out.

[scott]

The one telltale sign that the Spurs might be interested in a player -- they don't invite him for a work out.

They haven't worked me out once in the last 25 years. Still waiting for my name to be called on draft night :lol

[TrueSpursFan]

The one telltale sign that the Spurs might be interested in a player -- they don't invite him for a work out.

Didn’t the spurs workout all 3 rookies last year?

[objective]

What's the point of getting worked up over Barlowe? He's 'credible' in that he has media credentials, attends draft events, scouts overseas, scouts high schools, has some connections with agents and if I remember right was even involved with one of the smalltime unofficial combines a few years ago, the kind of thing that maybe got players noticed to get opportunities in third world countries. From what I can tell, scouting is his full time job.

Obviously any rumors or speculation he reports is just that, rumors and speculation. But he is more 'credible' than 99.9% of anonymous Twitter users and YouTubers who click bait and make stuff up.

He might be better to read then listen to his podcast, I find his vocal delivery monotone and grating with what I think is lots of mic popping.

[Mr. Body]

Didn’t the spurs workout all 3 rookies last year?

Malaki and Blake were in the same workout.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Packaging 33 and a first to add PG talent makes sense. I am just not sure we are going to get very far with that. Then again there are teams looking to dump salary and dissatisfied with their draft position so who knows.

This offseason is hella fun.

[Atl Spur]

What you say is true, but patiently waiting in the Zen Garden for that which is unknowable in advance is not fun. Tranquil, perhaps, wise, even, but not fun.
To speculate about the unknowable, to pretend to have special knowledge, to argue about it tirelessly, that is fun.

Lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Agents have been known to use lightly or non-connected media to spread false rumors.

"OMG, Nic Batum has a heart condition!"

And that is just it. They talk to agents, players, and club media directors mostly. Guys like Ford and Wojo have higher level contacts in board rooms so they tend to have more veracity.

You can tell where the information is coming from generally. In this case it sounds like clubs are saying the Spurs are calling around about draft picks.

They probably are it makes sense. That doesn't mean anything will come of it.

[Degoat]

I really don’t see a guy to trade up for unless it’s into the top 10 tbh I really like Jalen Hood Schifino but I don’t think he worth moving assets for. Anthony Black and Casen Wallace are pipe dreams

[talkspurs]

I wonder if Orl would take Chi draft pick for their #11 this year. Throw in a 2nd this year and if we need to eat a contract or another 2nd somewhere I would do it.

They have lots of young players already and have the #6 pick. This would allow them to push off the11th pick for another 2 years. If chicago decides to rebuild It could be better then the 11th pick. They also would get a 2nd this year to throw at someone as well as getting rid of a contract they dont want or another 2nd in the future.

[rankingtear]

Smells like Amen. There is realistic scenario where he drops to the 8-11 range.

[Mr. Body]

Smells like Amen. There is realistic scenario where he drops to the 8-11 range.

What realistic scenario has Amen going 8-11?

[tonight...you]

What realistic scenario has Amen going 8-11?
Willy Wonka's Land of the Oompah Loompahs realistic scenario.
I'm thinking of visiting, just for the awesome/awful (kind of weird when you say those two words close together and how they sound so similar and yet mean so different) takes I can get ridiculed for when I come back!

[SpurPadre]

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

https://twitter.com/evantownsend_/status/1659643480438612013?s=46&t=e2H9Qtfw_lBDsh5nxSLHUA

im not sure why it’s not embedding

Interesting. Townsend saying he's not that athletic while NBA Draftnet has his athleticism as a 9/10: Rayan Rupert - NBADraft.net (https://www.nbadraft.net/players/rayan-rupert/)

[rankingtear]

What realistic scenario has Amen going 8-11?

Ausar going to HOU based on new rumors. Then it is DET, ORL , after Hayes and Suggs they won't take another poor shooting lead guard. IND has a primary and a big hole at the 4 spot. That leaves WAS at 8 and UTA at 9.

[Atl Spur]

We don’t need more rookies people… any move worth making is for the swap of picks for vets. We currently have enough young talent.

[Atl Spur]

Trim the non proven roster fat and move some of the expiring contracts.

[mo7888]

We don’t need more rookies people… any move worth making is for the swap of picks for vets. We currently have enough young talent.

I think we could use a couple more rookies. Most here think we need a PG rookie and I'm not opposed to it, but I think there's more value in one of the PF's that's likely to drop into the early-mid 20's. I also think we could use another rookie on a 2 way deal in the 2nd rd. I would like to add a couple of good locker room vets as well.

[Mr. Body]

I think we could use a couple more rookies. Most here think we need a PG rookie and I'm not opposed to it, but I think there's more value in one of the PF's that's likely to drop into the early-mid 20's. I also think we could use another rookie on a 2 way deal in the 2nd rd. I would like to add a couple of good locker room vets as well.

What are the PFs in the 20s? Like Kris Murray?

[Mal]

What the point adding late 1st round ? Would that PG be better than Tre Young as backup, long term ?

[mo7888]

What are the PFs in the 20s? Like Kris Murray?

Murray and Jackson

[Russ]

What are the PFs in the 20s? Like Kris Murray?

According to NBADraft.net, Trayce Jackson-Davis (Indiana) and Noah Clowney (Alabama).

[mo7888]

According to NBADraft.net, Trayce Jackson-Davis (Indiana) and Noah Clowney (Alabama).

I've Clowney in there too (27 on my board).. I've got TJD as a 2nd rounder, but he is rising on others boards.

[Ariel]

We don’t need more rookies people… any move worth making is for the swap of picks for vets. We currently have enough young talent.
Bullsh!t. We only have enough talent (for a long term contender) if every single young player (Wemby, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, Branham) reaches his absolute ceiling, and maybe not even then. Realistically we should add one or two more pieces, to account for whatever inevitably goes wrong (someone plateaus or busts, gets badly hurt, bolts, etc). This is the time to do so, we can afford to take a few chances while the core continues to grow for an extra year or two, once it's set and you're in win now mode it's much harder to take those chances, since you actually start using your assets to balance/round up/complete the roster and start losing players to free agency.

[Russ]

We only have enough talent (for a long term contender) if every single young player (Wemby, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, Branham) reaches his absolute ceiling, and maybe not even then. Realistically we should add one or two more pieces, to account for whatever inevitably goes wrong (someone plateaus or busts, gets badly hurt, bolts, etc). This is the time to do so, we can afford to take a few chances while the core continues to grow for an extra year or two, once it's set and you're in win now mode it's much harder to take those chances, since you actually start using your assets to balance/round up/complete the roster and start losing players to free agency.

:toast

[exstatic]

Bullsh!t. We only have enough talent (for a long term contender) if every single young player (Wemby, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, Branham) reaches his absolute ceiling, and maybe not even then. Realistically we should add one or two more pieces, to account for whatever inevitably goes wrong (someone plateaus or busts, gets badly hurt, bolts, etc). This is the time to do so, we can afford to take a few chances while the core continues to grow for an extra year or two, once it's set and you're in win now mode it's much harder to take those chances, since you actually start using your assets to balance/round up/complete the roster and start losing players to free agency.

How are those players supposed to reach their absolute ceiling if you choke the development pipeline by having too many players in it? We have 4 FRPs from the last two drafts, including Wemby who will probably take most of the staff's time, currently in the pipeline: Wemby, Sochan, Malaki, and Blake. That's probably stretching the development staff to it's limits. Pick Wemby, and sell the two SRPs. We could have as many as 3 FRPs next year, making anyone picked in the second round completely expendable, so why waste the picks? That would be seven FRPs selected in 3 drafts. That's enough development material to work with.

[Extra Stout]

How are those players supposed to reach their absolute ceiling if you choke the development pipeline by having too many players in it? We have 4 FRPs from the last two drafts, including Wemby who will probably take most of the staff's time, currently in the pipeline: Wemby, Sochan, Malaki, and Blake. That's probably stretching the development staff to it's limits. Pick Wemby, and sell the two SRPs. We could have as many as 3 FRPs next year, making anyone picked in the second round completely expendable, so why waste the picks? That would be seven FRPs selected in 3 drafts. That's enough development material to work with.
Then they probably have to accelerate the decision-making on Vassell and Johnson. Are either of them one of the top 3-4 players on a contending team? If so, keep them and move others. If not, trade one or both and draw from the deck again.

[exstatic]

Then they probably have to accelerate the decision-making on Vassell and Johnson. Are either of them one of the top 3-4 players on a contending team? If so, keep them and move others. If not, trade one or both and draw from the deck again.

I didn't even mention them, because their development is mostly done. You still have 4 FRPs from the last two drafts who are nowhere near evaluation, and a possible 7 in 3 drafts if the likely 2 extra picks convey next year, plus ours. SRPs are cash equivalents now, virtual toilet paper.

[The Truth #6]

We need to consolidate picks to move up to get higher quality talent. Otherwise we would have too many young players to teach.

[montgod]

How are those players supposed to reach their absolute ceiling if you choke the development pipeline by having too many players in it? We have 4 FRPs from the last two drafts, including Wemby who will probably take most of the staff's time, currently in the pipeline: Wemby, Sochan, Malaki, and Blake. That's probably stretching the development staff to it's limits. Pick Wemby, and sell the two SRPs. We could have as many as 3 FRPs next year, making anyone picked in the second round completely expendable, so why waste the picks? That would be seven FRPs selected in 3 drafts. That's enough development material to work with.

I don't agree... perfect example is OKC. Last year two rookies started, 1 came off the bench. Rest of starting 5 had 4, 3, and 1 year of experience. Next year, Holmgren will still be a rookie, Wiggins, Mann had a year exp, and Poku is on his 2nd year along w/whoever they draft. Having minutes to get used to the NBA, make a mistake and learn from it with the FO being able to watch and see what the player becomes is a part of the process. So there shouldn't be a detractor on adding talent when you can especially in the form of more affordable 1st rounders/2nd rounders vs FA. If the FO feels this draft has more talent than next, and they feel this team needs it, then why not take advantage and get as much as you can while you can?

[Ariel]

How are those players supposed to reach their absolute ceiling if you choke the development pipeline by having too many players in it? We have 4 FRPs from the last two drafts, including Wemby who will probably take most of the staff's time, currently in the pipeline: Wemby, Sochan, Malaki, and Blake. That's probably stretching the development staff to it's limits. Pick Wemby, and sell the two SRPs. We could have as many as 3 FRPs next year, making anyone picked in the second round completely expendable, so why waste the picks? That would be seven FRPs selected in 3 drafts. That's enough development material to work with.
Last year you were saying the same thing, we couldn't make room for 3 rookies and we had to get rid of one pick. Now you're back at it again. I think you're stuck 20 years back, the Spurs are rebuilding and pretty much every tanking team has gone through that phase, having a large number of young players until they amass their core. Right now I'd say Wemby, Sochan and Branham are already NBA players who can contribute right now even if they have room to grow, the problem arises when you try to develop too many long term projects at once (guys who might not even be NBA players). Right now that category contains Wesley and Barlow, maybe Bassey too. And if it becomes a problem eventually, you had enough time to make an assessment on which players warrant your investment, simply cut/dump those who don't. Simply rotate players faster, Samanic and Wieskamp style. If Blake shows no improvement by next year, move on. Same as Barlow. If you avoid GG Jackson types you don't clog the pipeline.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs built a new 500 million dollar practice facility, but their staff is not big enough to develop 10 NBA players :lmao Yeah right :lmao

[montgod]

Fully agree

[Spursfanfromafar]

The real issue for the Spurs isn't development but the means of doing so. Development in a winning environment is much better than a losing one. Tanking for more talent when you already have good talent isn't the right approach. For the current talent to develop quicker and better, they need to be put into "winning" positions - that is play the right way both on offense and defense and to work out what they are being coached in an effective manner. For that to happen, the Spurs should get a good veteran or two to be added to the mix. And that can be done better by leveraging the cap space for now.. but at some point of time.. maybe not this season, the Spurs must look at using their extra picks to land a solid contributing veteran to the core.

[Mr. Body]

I don't agree... perfect example is OKC. Last year two rookies started, 1 came off the bench. Rest of starting 5 had 4, 3, and 1 year of experience. Next year, Holmgren will still be a rookie, Wiggins, Mann had a year exp, and Poku is on his 2nd year along w/whoever they draft. Having minutes to get used to the NBA, make a mistake and learn from it with the FO being able to watch and see what the player becomes is a part of the process. So there shouldn't be a detractor on adding talent when you can especially in the form of more affordable 1st rounders/2nd rounders vs FA. If the FO feels this draft has more talent than next, and they feel this team needs it, then why not take advantage and get as much as you can while you can?

OKC is close to the 'churn' problem, or is already there. They've been drafting over players because they have to use their picks. For example, drafting Ousmane Dieng sort of in the Pokusevski role, drafting Jaylin Williams (PF) over Jeremiah Robinson-Earle.

There's risk of 1) being infatuated with the same kinds of players, and 2) being in love with the draft process. I think Presti just loves drafting guys. But the pray-and-spray approach works when you find a Jalen Williams (SG). They have a Giddey-SGA-Williams-Holmgren set with some good additional pieces with plenty of picks ahead. In a way it doesn't matter how profligate you are with your picks so long as you get your players. But at some point the cupboard runs bare.

We're facing the same problem, but behind in the timeline. Also, of course, Wembanyama changes everything for us. But they - and we - have to at some point shift to figuing out how to trade picks into the future, consolidate them for better potential talent, or trade them for existing talent.

[Ariel]

Then they probably have to accelerate the decision-making on Vassell and Johnson. Are either of them one of the top 3-4 players on a contending team? If so, keep them and move others. If not, trade one or both and draw from the deck again.
Vassell and Johnson are fine, it's on the Blake Wesleys, Barlows and Basseys we need to make a decision on. Just evaluate their progress year by year, and if they don't show progress and they don't make up for the opportunity cost, move on to make room for someone else.
Probably Langford and Dieng are let go, McDermott and Graham get moved by the trade deadline, Birch is just a dead roster spot until next year. Then at the end of next year you evaluate your prospects, weed out those you should continue investing in and those who don't and move on from the latter. Keep it rolling, we need more bites at the apple,

[Ariel]

The real issue for the Spurs isn't development but the means of doing so. Development in a winning environment is much better than a losing one. Tanking for more talent when you already have good talent isn't the right approach. For the current talent to develop quicker and better, they need to be put into "winning" positions - that is play the right way both on offense and defense and to work out what they are being coached in an effective manner. For that to happen, the Spurs should get a good veteran or two to be added to the mix. And that can be done better by leveraging the cap space for now.. but at some point of time.. maybe not this season, the Spurs must look at using their extra picks to land a solid contributing veteran to the core.
No one is proposing the Spurs tank the same way, you can do things like Indiana does and be competitive while still adding talent. There's a middle ground, and that's where the Spurs should be until there's enough talent on the roster. We've made huge strides, but we're not there yet.

[JPB]

Spurs built a new 500 million dollar practice facility, but their staff is not big enough to develop 10 NBA players :lmao Yeah right :lmao

It's not so much about staff, although you don't want it to become the mexican army developing a wagon of prospects, but about playing time in a team that hopefully is trying to improve. Otherwise you spend another 2 year sucking bad giving time to guys who for most of them won't be there in 2 or 3 years, if not in the NBA altogether... There's a competition to play, it's not just scrimmages and you just got a generational talent. Don't just put a bunch of scrubs around him to see the one who will stick... Bring more talent with your assets.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell and Johnson are fine, it's on the Blake Wesleys, Barlows and Basseys we need to make a decision on. Just evaluate their progress year by year, and if they don't show progress and they don't make up for the opportunity cost, move on to make room for someone else.
Probably Langford and Dieng are let go, McDermott and Graham get moved by the trade deadline, Birch is just a dead roster spot until next year. Then at the end of next year you evaluate your prospects, weed out those you should continue investing in and those who don't and move on from the latter. Keep it rolling, we need more bites at the apple,

I agree

[montgod]

No one is proposing the Spurs tank the same way, you can do things like Indiana does and be competitive while still adding talent. There's a middle ground, and that's where the Spurs should be until there's enough talent on the roster. We've made huge strides, but we're not there yet.

Exactly. I think OKC is the best example, HOU probably the worse since they don't have a process in place for development/direction. The key is Spurs currently don't have enough talent yet for long term success. Getting there, but no need in stopping just yet... or at least let's see how this year goes after the FO makes moves. I think the draft and FA will be telling on the direction of the team and how the FO views it.

[JPB]

Vassell and Johnson are fine, it's on the Blake Wesleys, Barlows and Basseys we need to make a decision on. Just evaluate their progress year by year, and if they don't show progress and they don't make up for the opportunity cost, move on to make room for someone else.
Probably Langford and Dieng are let go, McDermott and Graham get moved by the trade deadline, Birch is just a dead roster spot until next year. Then at the end of next year you evaluate your prospects, weed out those you should continue investing in and those who don't and move on from the latter. Keep it rolling, we need more bites at the apple,

Totally, your core is Keldon, Devin, Sochan, Tre, Wemby and Zollins. Very few of the remaining guys will be there in 2 years. It's up to them to show litterally day 1 next season they're worth a spot in Wemby's team. that's why I'm all in to trade up and grab another first.

[The Truth #6]

My point, more specifically, is that we are in a rebuilding phase, and there will be young players, obviously, but we need talent more than anything, so that’s why I think we should consolidate picks to get higher quality talent. We’re less likely to get quality talent if we’re only picking in the teens and 20s with our first round picks.

[montgod]

Totally, your core is Keldon, Devin, Sochan, Tre, Wemby and Zollins. Very few of the remaining guys will be there in 2 years. It's up to them to show litterally day 1 next season they're worth a spot in Wemby's team. that's why I'm all in to trade up and grab another first.

I'd actually prune that down to only Sochan, Devin, Branham, and Wemby as being the core (KJ has one foot in, one foot out depending on what happens this offseason imo). The rest are still in flux honestly depending on who the FO likes in the draft, FA, and/or trade deals on the table. Hence my reasoning that they want to add more talent to identify more core pieces vs just great role players.

[RC_Drunkford]

Totally, your core is Keldon, Devin, Sochan, Tre, Wemby and Zollins. Very few of the remaining guys will be there in 2 years. It's up to them to show litterally day 1 next season they're worth a spot in Wemby's team. that's why I'm all in to trade up and grab another first.

I see Wemby, Sochan, Vassell, Keldon and Branham as the core although Keldon is definitely expandable down the line. I'm against trading him right now though. Tre as back up PG. Playing time isn't really the issue right now. There are enough minutes for all those guys and players like Bassey, Mamu and Champagnie can be used as 3rd stringers who still have good upside. Locking some of them up to Bassey type deals for cheap seems like a good idea to me, so if you lose somebody later down the line you already have a cheap replacement in place. They could also be good trade fillers. Spurs should definitely try to draft another player in this draft, I'm with you on that. The picks later down the line need to be used to bring in players or move up in the draft if the Spurs have a specific target.

[montgod]

I see Wemby, Sochan, Vassell, Keldon and Branham as the core although Keldon is definitely expandable down the line. I'm against trading him right now though. Tre as back up PG. Playing time isn't really the issue right now. There are enough minutes for all those guys and players like Bassey, Mamu and Champagnie can be used as 3rd stringers who still have good upside. Locking some of them up to Bassey type deals for cheap seems like a good idea to me, so if you lose somebody later down the line you already have a cheap replacement in place. They could also be good trade fillers. Spurs should definitely try to draft another player in this draft, I'm with you on that. The picks later down the line need to be used to bring in players or move up in the draft if the Spurs have a specific target.

Beat you to it... great minds think alike lol

[Payote75]

Vassell is so part of the core he will be one of the best shooters on the league and am eventual Allstate I'd say as of now as much as I love Keldon and I believe him part of the core the big 3 coming into a vision is Wemby Sochan and Vassell Keldon RT there though.

[JPB]

Yeah my bad, I gorgot Branham to the core. Obviously.

[montgod]

Vassell is so part of the core he will be one of the best shooters on the league and am eventual Allstate I'd say as of now as much as I love Keldon and I believe him part of the core the big 3 coming into a vision is Wemby Sochan and Vassell Keldon RT there though.

He was mentioned already.... in case you didn't know, his first name is Devin

[Ariel]

My point, more specifically, is that we are in a rebuilding phase, and there will be young players, obviously, but we need talent more than anything, so that’s why I think we should consolidate picks to get higher quality talent. We’re less likely to get quality talent if we’re only picking in the teens and 20s with our first round picks.
I don't know that anyone is against that, certainly I'm not. We have more 2nd rounders than we can use in 2 decades right now, probably too many first rounders too, If we can consolidate picks into better ones that's obviously a good idea. What I'm mostly against is the notion that we've reached a breaking point in terms of player development, we haven't and this is as good a time to do so as it's going to be for the foreseeable future. If it's used on higher ceiling prospects all the better as far as I'm concerned.

[stnick2261]

I think we have the perfect number of 1st round picks. In 8 years, we have enough picks (15) to field a full team. That should account for the best rising to starters, the lesser ones falling to the 2-3 deep... and the ones who don't pan out at all can be released for FAs.

We can actually go back to draft-and-stash'ing 2nd round picks... but ideally, we can use the 2nd round picks to move the 1st round picks up a few spots each year. (I'd love to package our 2nds this year for another first).

By the time all of those draft picks are used, the ones we picked first will be grizzled veterans.

[ducks]

Takes two to tangle

[Extra Stout]

I think only Sochan on the roster has the potential to be a secondary or tertiary star, but it’s not a sure thing. Maybe he’s just a solid starter. Vassell’s ceiling is probably a solid starting wing on a good team.

So the Spurs have to keep looking in the draft I think. They can either keep drawing, figuring one or two of the picks over the next couple of years will pan out as stars, or they can make deals to get higher picks sooner for specific players they want.

[Ariel]

Takes two to tangle
And to tango too...

[rascal]

I think only Sochan on the roster has the potential to be a secondary or tertiary star, but it’s not a sure thing. Maybe he’s just a solid starter. Vassell’s ceiling is probably a solid starting wing on a good team.

So the Spurs have to keep looking in the draft I think. They can either keep drawing, figuring one or two of the picks over the next couple of years will pan out as stars, or they can make deals to get higher picks sooner for specific players they want.

I see no all star level players other than Wemby on the current roster.

No current player has special NBA athleticism or shot creation and no player on the team is an exceptional shooter/go to scorer or shows explosive quickness. The team has a couple of potential solid upside starters but most are below average without all star level potential.

Wemby is the cornerstone of a possible future multi championship dynasty but the Spurs still need to do work in building around him.

[Mr. Body]

Dejounte Murray was totally a star when he came out and never improved whatsoever.

[Extra Stout]

Dejounte Murray was totally a star when he came out and never improved whatsoever.
DJM showed more by the end of his first season than Johnson or Vassell ever have.

[RC_Drunkford]

I see no all star level players other than Wemby on the current roster.

No current player has special NBA athleticism or shot creation and no player on the team is an exceptional shooter/go to scorer or shows explosive quickness. The team has a couple of potential solid upside starters but most are below average without all star level potential.

Wemby is the cornerstone of a possible future multi championship dynasty but the Spurs still need to do work in building around him.

exactly. It's not like any of these guys are Shaedon Sharpe

[rascal]

DJM showed more by the end of his first season than Johnson or Vassell ever have.

Vassell and Johnson aren't going to get much better than what they are now.

Last year's rookies can get better but I don't see any of them getting good enough to be an all star go to second scoring option to Wemby.

Those unprotected Atlanta picks may turn out to get the spurs high enough into the draft to get another all star level player.

[Mr. Body]

DJM showed more by the end of his first season than Johnson or Vassell ever have.

I'm not sure if that means anything.

[rascal]

exactly. It's not like any of these guys are Shaedon Sharpe

Sharpe has more all star potential than any other current spur other than Wemby.

[RC_Drunkford]

Devin Vassell can clearly become a Paul George or Jaylen Brown type of player. He actually averaged more points than both of them did in their 3rd year. As far as I know those guys are considered legit 2nd options on championship contenders. And I agree with Extra Stout that Sochan could get there if he becomes a shooter as he's a difficult match up due to his size and foot speed already.

[Extra Stout]

Vassell and Johnson aren't going to get much better than what they are now.

Last year's rookies can get better but I don't see any of them getting good enough to be an all star go to second scoring option to Wemby.

Those unprotected Atlanta picks may turn out to get the spurs high enough into the draft to get another all star level player.
I think when a player is special, you know it in the first or second year, even if they haven’t put it all together yet. Maybe there are some late-blooming exceptions I’m not thinking of, but they’re rare.

Wesley is the only Spur who has that kind of potential, but he’s likelier to fall out of the league than he is to become a star.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sharpe has more all star potential than any other current spur other than Wemby.

Sharpe can clearly be Michael Jordan

[Extra Stout]

Devin Vassell can clearly become a Paul George or Jaylen Brown type of player. He actually averaged more points than both of them did in their 3rd year. As far as I know those guys are considered legit 2nd options on championship contenders. And I agree with Extra Stout that Sochan could get there if he becomes a shooter as he's a difficult match up due to his size and foot speed already.
I don’t think PPG average means much. On bad teams, somebody still has to take the shots. Paul George was “that guy” by his second year. Jaylen Brown’s advanced stats over his first few years look more like Vassell’s, but even back then observers knew he was special. If Vassell were that guy, he already would be there.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t think PPG average means much. On bad teams, somebody still has to take the shots. Paul George was “that guy” by his second year. Jaylen Brown’s advanced stats over his first few years look more like Vassell’s, but even back then observers knew he was special. If Vassell were that guy, he already would be there.

Jaylen Brown averaged 13 PPG in his 3rd season. Vassell missed more than half a season last year. You can't determine his ceiling after 2 1/2 years of playing NBA ball

[Extra Stout]

I mean, Devin Vassell would need to get on his horse next year to be as good as Danny Green at the same point in his career. Was Danny Green a star?

[rascal]

Devin Vassell can clearly become a Paul George or Jaylen Brown type of player. He actually averaged more points than both of them did in their 3rd year. As far as I know those guys are considered legit 2nd options on championship contenders. And I agree with Extra Stout that Sochan could get there if he becomes a shooter as he's a difficult match up due to his size and foot speed already.

Not a chance. Vassell looks and plays weaker(not as quick and explosive to the rim) than Paul George.

George is 6'8" with a 6' 11" wingspan.
Vassell is 6'5'

Sochan is still unknown but he's overrated on Spurstalk and has become a big fan favorite but watching his game nothing indicates that he will become a go to 2nd scoring option.

[RC_Drunkford]

I mean, Devin Vassell would need to get on his horse next year to be as good as Danny Green at the same point in his career. Was Danny Green a star?

Danny Green averaged 18 PPG and could dribble? When did you become a Spurs fan? :lol

[spurraider21]

Jaylen Brown averaged 13 PPG in his 3rd season. Vassell missed more than half a season last year. You can't determine his ceiling after 2 1/2 years of playing NBA ball
another comp is middleton based on his development track

[Extra Stout]

Danny Green averaged 18 PPG and could dribble? When did you become a Spurs fan? :lol
You’re too hung up on points per game. Vassell averaged 18 because he was on a dogshit team with no better options. On a good team, Vassell would be the fourth or fifth option and score half as much.

Danny Green was one of the prototypical 3 & D guys of the 2010’s. He couldn’t dribble but neither could Michael Finley.

[RC_Drunkford]

You’re too hung up on points per game. Vassell averaged 18 because he was on a dogshit team with no better options. On a good team, Vassell would be the fourth or fifth option and score half as much.

Danny Green was one of the prototypical 3 & D guys of the 2010’s. He couldn’t dribble but neither could Michael Finley.

ok so on a tanking team Danny Green could average 18 PPG?

[Extra Stout]

another comp is middleton based on his development track
I could stomach that, but that would mean Vassell needs a breakout 2023-24.

[mo7888]

I think when a player is special, you know it in the first or second year, even if they haven’t put it all together yet. Maybe there are some late-blooming exceptions I’m not thinking of, but they’re rare.

Wesley is the only Spur who has that kind of potential, but he’s likelier to fall out of the league than he is to become a star.

I think Branham has better chance of reaching a Devin Booker level archetype. Don't take that as a prediction that he'll make it there, but he's got the game and a smooth release that makes me think he's got a shot at it.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think Branham has better chance of reaching a Devin Booker level archetype. Don't take that as a prediction that he'll make it there, but he's got the game and a smooth release that makes me think he's got a shot at it.

Devin and Malaki are the only players on the team who can create their own shot. Both have a chance at becoming 2nd or 3rd option type of players. Malaki's game is already way too mature for a 19-year old and he still has so much more to unlock

[Extra Stout]

ok so on a tanking team Danny Green could average 18 PPG?
If they were at least allowed to try hard enough to run him off screens to get open for catch and shoot, then sure, he could score 18. On last year’s Spurs he would have been the best shooter and best perimeter defender by wide margins.

If they asked him to create off the dribble, then no. :lol

[exstatic]

I don't agree... perfect example is OKC. Last year two rookies started, 1 came off the bench. Rest of starting 5 had 4, 3, and 1 year of experience. Next year, Holmgren will still be a rookie, Wiggins, Mann had a year exp, and Poku is on his 2nd year along w/whoever they draft. Having minutes to get used to the NBA, make a mistake and learn from it with the FO being able to watch and see what the player becomes is a part of the process. So there shouldn't be a detractor on adding talent when you can especially in the form of more affordable 1st rounders/2nd rounders vs FA. If the FO feels this draft has more talent than next, and they feel this team needs it, then why not take advantage and get as much as you can while you can?

OKC is so pick bloated that they traded THREE FRPs for the #11 pick in last year's draft. That's a ridiculous payout for the #11 pick. Before we get to that point, we need to start selling SRPs for cash. We have 12 FRPs, not including swaps, between this draft and 2029, 7 of our own, plus 5 acquired in trades. We have NINETEEN fucking SRPs between now and 2029. Cash 'em out like Casino chips.

[Mr. Body]

All this talk is a little crazy. If the team thinks they can get a good player going for a better pick, they should. Another two rookies this off season is great.

This team needs talent especially at certain skill sets.

[Payote75]

He was mentioned already.... in case you didn't know, his first name is Devin


Thanks 👍 I don't get why some people on here can't hold a conversation and need to be condescending turds towards other posters. Majority are awesome just a few bad apples man. It wasn't a slight just an opinion chill out.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I think when a player is special, you know it in the first or second year, even if they haven’t put it all together yet.
Khris Middleton?
Jimmy Butler?
Pascal Siakam?

[Extra Stout]

Khris Middleton?
Jimmy Butler?
Pascal Siakam?
Middleton I’ll give you but not the other two. They had shown they had something by their second year.

[Mr. Body]

There's a Most Improved Player award for a reason.

[SpursBills]

I think next year Spurs will get a pretty high draft pick. That will be the time to get the second star. A lot of people are projecting the Spurs to win a lot of games next year, but historically this hasn't been the case with "generational" talent in their rookie year.

Mavs during Luka's rookie year were 33-49
Cavs during Lebron's rookie year were 35-47
Sonics during Durant's rookie year were 20-62
Pelicans (Hornets) during AD's rookie year were 27-55

Spurs were amazing during Duncan's rookie year, but Duncan was 2 years older than Wemby is now and had a decent team around him including 32 year old DRob. Orlando during Shaq's rookie year went 41-41, even Chicago during Jordan's rookie year went 38-44.

Also of note, the likelihood of those 4 players staying with their franchises I think was directly influenced by the player(s) they drafted in the following year, while the team was still bad. The Cavs drafted Luke Jackson with the 10th pick after Lebron, the Mavs lost their pick in the Luka trade, and the Hornets drafted Austin Rivers 10th after AD's rookie year. Lebron, AD, and (possibly) Luka ended up unhappy as they dragged their teams into the postseason year after year but could never get the requisite talent to get over the hump.

OKC drafted Westbrook and Harden after Durant, ended making a Finals run, and then even though Durant left for the Warriors, very few people would say that OKC didn't have enough from a talent standpoint.

I think Wemby has a higher ceiling than someone like Luka, but I don't think he's as advanced as Luka or certainly Lebron coming into the league. We will most likely get 30-35 wins next year, which has us picking 5-8 next year and that will probably be the most interesting Spurs draft in the last 20 years.

[RC_Drunkford]

If they were at least allowed to try hard enough to run him off screens to get open for catch and shoot, then sure, he could score 18. On last year’s Spurs he would have been the best shooter and best perimeter defender by wide margins.

If they asked him to create off the dribble, then no. :lol

:lmao :lmao :lmao that clearly shows how much you know about basketball. Never in his life would Danny Green be able to average 18 PPG for a season in the NBA. No matter which team. And he played for the team with the best ball movement ever. Devin Vassell was a 2nd option averaging that.

[Degoat]

As the draft gets closer I think Keynote George is gonna fly up boards. I was watching some film of him and he gives me some Desmond Bane vibes.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think next year Spurs will get a pretty high draft pick. That will be the time to get the second star. A lot of people are projecting the Spurs to win a lot of games next year, but historically this hasn't been the case with "generational" talent in their rookie year.

Mavs during Luka's rookie year were 33-49
Cavs during Lebron's rookie year were 35-47
Sonics during Durant's rookie year were 20-62
Pelicans (Hornets) during AD's rookie year were 27-55

Spurs were amazing during Duncan's rookie year, but Duncan was 2 years older than Wemby is now and had a decent team around him including 32 year old DRob. Orlando during Shaq's rookie year went 41-41, even Chicago during Jordan's rookie year went 38-44.

Also of note, the likelihood of those 4 players staying with their franchises I think was directly influenced by the player(s) they drafted in the following year, while the team was still bad. The Cavs drafted Luke Jackson with the 10th pick after Lebron, the Mavs lost their pick in the Luka trade, and the Hornets drafted Austin Rivers 10th after AD's rookie year. Lebron, AD, and (possibly) Luka ended up unhappy as they dragged their teams into the postseason year after year but could never get the requisite talent to get over the hump.

OKC drafted Westbrook and Harden after Durant, ended making a Finals run, and then even though Durant left for the Warriors, very few people would say that OKC didn't have enough from a talent standpoint.

I think Wemby has a higher ceiling than someone like Luka, but I don't think he's as advanced as Luka or certainly Lebron coming into the league. We will most likely get 30-35 wins next year, which has us picking 5-8 next year and that will probably be the most interesting Spurs draft in the last 20 years.

almost our entire roster will improve individually
Wemby will be even better than he is now
the defense will be significantly better
we won't tank and rest 3 starters every game
the team has a closer who's jump shot is unguardable

if that alone doesn't equal 18 more wins than I don't know

[exstatic]

As the draft gets closer I think Keynote George is gonna fly up boards. I was watching some film of him and he gives me some Desmond Bane vibes.

Desmond Bane was a 30th pick. If that's the vibe you're getting, Keyonte will be dropping down.

[spurraider21]

Desmond Bane was a 30th pick. If that's the vibe you're getting, Keyonte will be dropping down.
next time a player gives me manu vibes we shouldnt take him until the end of the 2nd

[Mal]

Sabres roster from last year contained a lot of guys that look like late 1st or 2nd rookies. There is plenty to choose from

[Mr. Body]

Some interesting comments on various first rounders from anonymous college coaches who played them. The Jarace one stood out to me. What I've heard before, that he winds up avoiding contact.

https://www.on3.com/news/nba-draft-college-coaches-candid-scouting-reports-on-first-round-draft-picks/

[JPB]

Vassell and Johnson aren't going to get much better than what they are now.



Ofc they will. they're still young and not close to their prime. Plenty of players dramatically improve after 4 or 5 years... They get older more confident, adults, gets a family maybe, more professionals and start to really get it. I mean just the simple fact of getting more experienced will have them improve.

[JPB]

DJM showed more by the end of his first season than Johnson or Vassell ever have.

He sure showed dem spurs with his 3.4 points, 1.3 assists and 1.1 rebounds in 38 games in his rookie season.

[Extra Stout]

He sure showed dem spurs with his 3.4 points, 1.3 assists and 1.1 rebounds in 38 games in his rookie season.
He showed what he was going to be in Game 6 against Houston.

[RC_Drunkford]

He showed what he was going to be in Game 6 against Houston.

yeah I remember you posting right after that game that he will be a triple double machine. Oh wait that was me :lol

[JPB]

He showed what he was going to be in Game 6 against Houston.

You mean those same POs where he averaged 5.7 pts, 2.5 rbs and 2.5 ass... Way to pick one game to occult the big picture... But no doubt those 11pts, 10rbs and 5 ass in game 6 showed the world he was gonna be a one time (back up) all star, to such a point he averaged 8.1 pts/game the following season. Was Murray an all star this year by the way? Any NBA player can have a (not that great game) in the PO like Lonnie vs the dubs this year,. Dejounte is overrated and a stat padder, which spurs understood.

Keldon averaged, 9 / 12.8 / 17 / 22 points in his first 4 seasons. Dejounte, 3.4 / 8.1 / 10.8 / 15.7 and his max is 20.5 this year, after 7 years in the NBA. Took 4 for Keldon to average 22. Sure contexts are different but Murray is overrated and saying he showed more in his first year and that Keldon or Devin ever will and those two won't progress anymore doesn't make sense.

[rascal]

almost our entire roster will improve individually
Wemby will be even better than he is now
the defense will be significantly better
we won't tank and rest 3 starters every game
the team has a closer who's jump shot is unguardable

if that alone doesn't equal 18 more wins than I don't know

Not necessarily will everyone improve. That's the common belief that most everyone will improve but it doesn't work that way. Some players may even regress.

[rascal]

You mean those same POs where he averaged 5.7 pts, 2.5 rbs and 2.5 ass... Way to pick one game to occult the big picture... But no doubt those 11pts, 10rbs and 5 ass in game 6 showed the world he was gonna be a (back up) all star. Like Lonnie vs the dubs this year, to such a point Murray averaged 8.1 pts/game the following season. Any NBA player can have a (not that great game) in the PO. Was Murray an all star this year by the way? Dejounte is overrated and a stat padder, which spurs understood.

Keldon averaged, 9 / 12.8 / 17 / 22 points in his first 4 seasons. Dejounte, 3.4 / 8.1 / 10.8 / 15.7 and his max is 20.5 this year, after 7 years in the NBA. Took 4 for Keldon to average 22. Sure contexts are different but Murray is oeverrated and saying showed more in his first year and that Keldon or Devin ever will and those two won't progress anymore doesn't make sense.

I don't see anything special with either Keldon or Vassell that jumps out to say they will improve significantly more than what you see now. Those guys will never reach all star status or be the second scoring option on a deep playoff team.

The Spurs really need to add another wing with all star potential upside, shooting and athleticism. It may take one of those Atlanta unprotected picks to hit high in the lottery to get that type of player.

[JPB]

I don't see anything special with either Keldon or Vassell that jumps out to say they will improve significantly more than what you see now. Those guys will never reach all star status or be the second scoring option on a deep playoff team.

The Spurs really need to add another wing with all star potential upside, shooting and athleticism. It may take one of those Atlanta unprotected picks to hit high in the lottery to get that type of player.

l'm not saying their ceiling is all star, although I don't say it's necessarily not, and I agree spurs shoud bring more talent, but saying they won't progress anymore is not correct. They showed they can score in the NBA (you do'nt average 22/game on a season if you don't have talent) and they look like good pros ready to work on their game, which is the reason some youngsters regress (work ethic and life hygiene). They'll get more experienced and confident, specially with Wemby around bringing his competitiveness and fire. That's the one thing with generational talents, they bring people behind them and make everyone improve around.

[stnick2261]

All this talk is a little crazy. If the team thinks they can get a good player going for a better pick, they should. Another two rookies this off season is great.

This team needs talent especially at certain skill sets.

I would definitely prefer 2 great rookies this year instead of 1 great and 2 second round prospects. Talent is exponentially better at the top of the draft (on average) and we need more talent.

[scott]

Wemby, Sochan, Keldon, Devin (and to a lesser extent Bran) are the core but only until there is someone better to replace them - which will definitely happen for a lot of those guys.

Everyone has a hard time seeing a future without some of our current "core" but there will be moves. We have zero players on our team now how were on the team 5 years ago. The 2013-14 Spurs only had the Big 3 + Bonner on the team who was on the squad 5 years prior. The only constant will be the stars. If that is Wemby + one other player, we'll call that a success. If it is Wemby + 2 other players from that list... then oh boy did we do well.

Keep the talent pipeline full.

[Extra Stout]

You mean those same POs where he averaged 5.7 pts, 2.5 rbs and 2.5 ass... Way to pick one game to occult the big picture... But no doubt those 11pts, 10rbs and 5 ass in game 6 showed the world he was gonna be a one time (back up) all star, to such a point he averaged 8.1 pts/game the following season. Was Murray an all star this year by the way? Any NBA player can have a (not that great game) in the PO like Lonnie vs the dubs this year,. Dejounte is overrated and a stat padder, which spurs understood.

Keldon averaged, 9 / 12.8 / 17 / 22 points in his first 4 seasons. Dejounte, 3.4 / 8.1 / 10.8 / 15.7 and his max is 20.5 this year, after 7 years in the NBA. Took 4 for Keldon to average 22. Sure contexts are different but Murray is overrated and saying he showed more in his first year and that Keldon or Devin ever will and those two won't progress anymore doesn't make sense.
He passed the eye test. It was the way he impacted the game with Kawhi out on both ends of the floor. Lonnie Walker just hit some shots.

True that Dejounte is nothing more than a borderline All-Star. I won’t argue that. Neither Johnson nor Vassell will ever sniff that level.

[Extra Stout]

I don’t get why in 2023 people focus on ppg. Back in the day Damon Stoudamire put up gaudy numbers on a crappy team in Toronto, then went to Portland and shit the bed. Manu Ginobili never averaged 20 ppg.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

1661755652576796672
How so? Doesn't Brooklyn realize that Schaedon Sharp is a future superstar? 🤡
By the way, what did Mikal show in the first two seasons on offense?

[lebomb]

I like Mikal alot, but I would take the No. 3 and Schaedon Sharp for him. But, thats just me. *shrugs*

[RC_Drunkford]

Not necessarily will everyone improve. That's the common belief that most everyone will improve but it doesn't work that way. Some players may even regress.

Shaedon Sharpe will improve though. On the Nets. Why are the Blazers trading such a generational talent?

[CGD]

1661755652576796672
How so? Doesn't Brooklyn realize that Schaedon Sharp is a future superstar? 🤡
By the way, what did Mikal show in the first two seasons on offense?

So the posturing begins. The podcasters have been trying to wish this trade into existence.

[CGD]

I like Mikal alot, but I would take the No. 3 and Schaedon Sharp for him. But, thats just me. *shrugs*

I agree. Scoot + Sharpe seems like the perfect way to reboot quickly if you are the Nets.

[Mr. Body]

I like Mikal alot, but I would take the No. 3 and Schaedon Sharp for him. But, thats just me. *shrugs*

There's a reason they're trying to dump Sharpe. He's fool's gold. You can stick him in the corners and he gets you absurd dunks in transition and lobs, but he is a very bad defender and he's way behind in understanding basketball.

For the #3... if it's Brandon Miller, Marks knows he's a high bust risk. His ceiling is also lower than people want to admit even if he doesn't bust -- look at Jabari Smith. You're giving up a ton for a guy whose skill set doesn't do as much as you think. If it's Scoot, it's a better outcome, but there are high risks there. Maybe he'll get to be as good as Mikal Bridges.

Beyond this, Mikal Bridges has value to the Nets well beyond the court. Sharpe and Henderson both seem self-absorbed with an over-inflated and not-yet earned view of their abilities. The franchise just dealt with three toxic personalities. They really like the identity Bridges gives them.

[rascal]

Shaedon Sharpe will improve though. On the Nets. Why are the Blazers trading such a generational talent?

They are looking to trade Simons with the third pick. 95% of Blazer fans want Simons traded over Sharpe.

Portland sees Sharpe as high value and is desperate to win now with Dame and will sacrifice their future to put players around Dame to win now. But look for them to try to trade Simons first.

[Rito3d30]

Del

[JPB]

I don’t get why in 2023 people focus on ppg. Back in the day Damon Stoudamire put up gaudy numbers on a crappy team in Toronto, then went to Portland and shit the bed. Manu Ginobili never averaged 20 ppg.

Because he didn't have to, since there were those Tim and TP guys around, who don't exist in the current team, which is the whole point. Ofc points don't tell the whole story but someone has to score them and we have repeated enough here that team needs talent, stars, mainly scoring stars. You won't find a Tim/Manu/TP big 3 anytime soon and the question is about Keldon or Vassell's ceiling, as different makers, mainly as scorers. You're not going anywhere with no one over 20/games in today's NBA. And focusing on points/game over 4 or 5 years to see if a player can be one of your top 2 or 3 guys who will make you win makse sense. We need one of Keldon or Vassel to be a 25pt+/game player to go where we want and if they want to stay or everyone will quintiple team Wemby.

[rascal]

There's a reason they're trying to dump Sharpe. He's fool's gold. You can stick him in the corners and he gets you absurd dunks in transition and lobs, but he is a very bad defender and he's way behind in understanding basketball.

For the #3... if it's Brandon Miller, Marks knows he's a high bust risk. His ceiling is also lower than people want to admit even if he doesn't bust -- look at Jabari Smith. You're giving up a ton for a guy whose skill set doesn't do as much as you think. If it's Scoot, it's a better outcome, but there are high risks there. Maybe he'll get to be as good as Mikal Bridges.

Beyond this, Mikal Bridges has value to the Nets well beyond the court. Sharpe and Henderson both seem self-absorbed with an over-inflated and not-yet earned view of their abilities. The franchise just dealt with three toxic personalities. They really like the identity Bridges gives them.

They aren't trying to dump Sharpe. Simons is the player they want to trade.

[exstatic]

There's a reason they're trying to dump Sharpe. He's fool's gold. You can stick him in the corners and he gets you absurd dunks in transition and lobs, but he is a very bad defender and he's way behind in understanding basketball.

For the #3... if it's Brandon Miller, Marks knows he's a high bust risk. His ceiling is also lower than people want to admit even if he doesn't bust -- look at Jabari Smith. You're giving up a ton for a guy whose skill set doesn't do as much as you think. If it's Scoot, it's a better outcome, but there are high risks there. Maybe he'll get to be as good as Mikal Bridges.

Beyond this, Mikal Bridges has value to the Nets well beyond the court. Sharpe and Henderson both seem self-absorbed with an over-inflated and not-yet earned view of their abilities. The franchise just dealt with three toxic personalities. They really like the identity Bridges gives them.

He has a buttery jumper,and can jump out of the gym. That’s it, though. He’s essentially Lonnie.

[heyheymymy]

Would def keep Bridges vs a Scoot or Miller/Sharpe or Simons combo

Way to many unknowns while Bridges is established. Not surprised BKN asked for more

[Degoat]

Would def keep Bridges vs a Scoot or Miller/Sharpe or Simons combo

Way too many unknowns while Bridges is established. Not surprised BKN asked for more


I guess I’m bias but I feel like Bridges and Vassell are very similar players and I’d take Scoot or Miller over both lol

[Extra Stout]

Because he didn't have to, since there were those Tim and TP guys around, who don't exist in the current team, which is the whole point. Ofc points don't tell the whole story but someone has to score them and we have repeated enough here that team needs talent, stars, mainly scoring stars. You won't find a Tim/Manu/TP big 3 anytime soon and the question is about Keldon or Vassell's ceiling, as different makers, mainly as scorers. You're not going anywhere with no one over 20/games in today's NBA. And focusing on points/game over 4 or 5 years to see if a player can be one of your top 2 or 3 guys who will make you win makse sense. We need one of Keldon or Vassel to be a 25pt+/game player to go where we want and if they want to stay or everyone will quintiple team Wemby.
OK. I don’t think those two are capable of fulfilling those roles. Even if KJ gets close, he gives it all back on the other end. I think the Spurs will have to find guys to fill those roles in upcoming drafts.

[Chinook]

We don’t need more rookies people… any move worth making is for the swap of picks for vets. We currently have enough young talent.

Imagine avoiding drafting a guy in the top 10 because you have Blake Wesley or Mamu on the roster.

The team is going to get plenty of additional young talent. They have too many draft picks not to. They have to avoid fetishizing the guys on the roster as if they have their spots on lock, because they will get competition. If you find that scenario disconcerting, then it should be more reason to support them consolidating their draft assets rather than just taking them as they come.

[Dex]

Imagine avoiding drafting a guy in the top 10 because you have Blake Wesley or Mamu on the roster.

The team is going to get plenty of additional young talent. They have too many draft picks not to. They have to avoid fetishizing the guys on the roster as if they have their spots on lock, because they will get competition. If you find that scenario disconcerting, then it should be more reason to support them consolidating their draft assets rather than just taking them as they come.

100% agree. Guys like Wesley or Mamu could be good to great role players...and should be treated as such. They aren't the type of guys you hitch your wagon to.

We've now got our guy who should be the clear #1. Spurs need to focus on whatever takes to get a clear #2, and I don't think that person exists on our current roster barring some monumental growth from someone like Sochan, Vassell, Branham, etc. I don't even think Johnson is that guy...I'm pretty sure he is at or just near his ceiling and that's still like a third option.

[Atl Spur]

100% agree. Guys like Wesley or Mamu could be good to great role players...and should be treated as such. They aren't the type of guys you hitch your wagon to.

We've now got our guy who should be the clear #1. Spurs need to focus on whatever takes to get a clear #2, and I don't think that person exists on our current roster barring some monumental growth from someone like Sochan, Vassell, Branham, etc. I don't even think Johnson is that guy...I'm pretty sure he is at or just near his ceiling and that's still like a third option.

Has history taught us nothing? Use your draft capital / cap space to surround your cornerstone with high end vets. Let branham, Wesley, vassell etc…. develop naturally. Kj is a great bench piece, kbd is a great bench piece, Zach is a great bench piece/fringe starter. Next years draft will provoke these same debates, neglecting to acknowledge the minimal impact the previous draft picks / class had from top to bottom. Free agency will help reveal our true intentions

[Dex]

Has history taught us nothing? Use your draft capital / cap space to surround your cornerstone with high end vets. Let branham, Wesley, vassell etc…. develop naturally. Kj is a great bench piece, kbd is a great bench piece, Zach is a great bench piece/fringe starter. Next years draft will provoke these same debates, neglecting to acknowledge the minimal impact the previous draft picks / class had from top to bottom. Free agency will help reveal our true intentions

I think we are basically saying the same thing. I'm not asking for the Spurs to go out and seek another superstar, although it would be great if it happens naturally.

Tony and Manu were basically 2A/2B to Tim, depending upon who you ask. We were very lucky in that regard for it to come from a 28th and 57th pick.

I think the NBA is realizing that the days of trying to team up 3 "stars" with no help around them doesn't work. We need to develop a solid team from 1-10, and we have all the pieces to make that happen.

[RC_Drunkford]

I got a feeling that the Blazers are trying to copy the Nuggets roster, only with Nurkic not being nearly as good as Jokic

[Mr. Body]

There's a difference between:

1. The FO acquiring a new draft pick because they want to add a rookie, any type of rookie, to the roster
2. The FO acquiring a new draft pick because they are targeting a specific player

I don't think the team wants to get another draft pick just for another spin at the wheel.

I think they are very specifically targeting certain players. If they don't think they can get one of those players, they'll pull back. (Exception: moving the 33 into the 20s.)

So, they wouldn't be trying to get a top 10 pick 'just to see.' Or a pick in the late lottery, or around 20. They would only pull the trigger if they know they can hit their target.

[Big Empty]

There's a difference between:

1. The FO acquiring a new draft pick because they want to add a rookie, any type of rookie, to the roster
2. The FO acquiring a new draft pick because they are targeting a specific player

I don't think the team wants to get another draft pick just for another spin at the wheel.

I think they are very specifically targeting certain players. If they don't think they can get one of those players, they'll pull back. (Exception: moving the 33 into the 20s.)

So, they wouldn't be trying to get a top 10 pick 'just to see.' Or a pick in the late lottery, or around 20. They would only pull the trigger if they know they can hit their target.
💯👏🏽💯👏🏽 this is spot on. If the FO is licking their chops to pair another player in this draft next to Wemby, i think they’l make some major moves to get it done. I dont think they are gonna move assets JUST to see. They’re patient and smart about it. I do think the Spurs will get super aggressive in Wembys 2nd year though if we dont make any moves. We have a ton of draft picks to play with especially if a team is desperate.

[spurraider21]

Has history taught us nothing? Use your draft capital / cap space to surround your cornerstone with high end vets. Let branham, Wesley, vassell etc…. develop naturally. Kj is a great bench piece, kbd is a great bench piece, Zach is a great bench piece/fringe starter. Next years draft will provoke these same debates, neglecting to acknowledge the minimal impact the previous draft picks / class had from top to bottom. Free agency will help reveal our true intentions
for every vassell that develops nicely you have your lonnie walker, luka samanic, and josh primo

cant act like we know for sure what branham/wesley will look like in 1, 2, or 3 years, and certainly cant take for granted that those positions are solved

[Ariel]

There's a difference between:

1. The FO acquiring a new draft pick because they want to add a rookie, any type of rookie, to the roster
2. The FO acquiring a new draft pick because they are targeting a specific player

I don't think the team wants to get another draft pick just for another spin at the wheel.

I think they are very specifically targeting certain players. If they don't think they can get one of those players, they'll pull back. (Exception: moving the 33 into the 20s.)

So, they wouldn't be trying to get a top 10 pick 'just to see.' Or a pick in the late lottery, or around 20. They would only pull the trigger if they know they can hit their target.
Yeah, they're definitely not jumping up/into the draft without a clear picture of what they're going after, which is why we'll be left speculating all the way until draft night. Probably any deal gets done on the clock, only if their target is available.

[Ariel]

Has history taught us nothing? Use your draft capital / cap space to surround your cornerstone with high end vets. Let branham, Wesley, vassell etc…. develop naturally. Kj is a great bench piece, kbd is a great bench piece, Zach is a great bench piece/fringe starter. Next years draft will provoke these same debates, neglecting to acknowledge the minimal impact the previous draft picks / class had from top to bottom. Free agency will help reveal our true intentions
History gave the Spurs a quota of luck you can't assume will repeat itself.
Had the Spurs not landed Duncan (~80% chance it didn't happen) David Robinson would have surely retired ringless, they didn't "naturally" develop anything, Tim just fell into their lap by chance and landed on a very different situation to the one Wemby will find himself in right now.
Had Tony and Manu not reached their absolute best case scenario, Tim probably doesn't get that second ring and could very well have gone elsewhere in free agency (he almost did in '00). Don't get me wrong, the Spurs' scouting was great and deserves a lot of credit especially with Tony, but if you think they knew what Manu would become you're deluding yourself. You can't rely on finding that kind of talent at the right time every time with crappy picks, that's an anomaly that has given some a false sense of security.
My point is, putting together a championship contender isn't easy, and you can't take for granted it's naturally going to happen. Also take into consideration the clock is ticking, because if you haven't found those pieces midway Wemby's rookie extension, chances are he'll push for a trade to another team.
The Spurs have as much freedom to take chances as they're going to have in the foreseeable future, not taking a few more chances at top young talent now would be a costly mistake down the road, I hope the FO doesn't make that mistake.

[Atl Spur]

Draft


Who said they were solved? What you can’t do is keep drafting young player after young player….. develop what you have and trim what you deem not part of your plan moving forward. The meld between young and established must have a certain balance. That’s why a KP and Wemby pf/c combo with Zach substitute would be great for a solid offensive / defensive rotation. Devin starts / Branham back up, Sochan starts / kj back up, Wemby starts / kbd back up , KP starts / Zach off the bench ( depending on match up ). Pg position…….. wait for it………Ben!!!! Lol

[Atl Spur]

Next year they’ll be some other prospect come along that tickles the leagues fancy…….. we have leverage to draft and stash as well as mortgage portions of our future picks without fear.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, they're definitely not jumping up/into the draft without a clear picture of what they're going after, which is why we'll be left speculating all the way until draft night. Probably any deal gets done on the clock, only if their target is available.

Right. The suggestion is that they see a player or players that are not common to find in drafts, or the opportunity is different to move up this year, or they want that type of player on board now rather than later.

I feel like it's those three things in descending order. They see something they really really want, they think it's possible for various reasons, and they either want that player now or don't think they'll likely see them again. Fun part is guessing who this person is - or if there are a few.

[Atl Spur]

Right. The suggestion is that they see a player or players that are not common to find in drafts, or the opportunity is different to move up this year, or they want that type of player on board now rather than later.

I feel like it's those three things in descending order. They see something they really really want, they think it's possible for various reasons, and they either want that player now or don't think they'll likely see them again. Fun part is guessing who this person is - or if there are a few.

If they do feel this way, we won’t know about it:)

[Mr. Body]

If they do feel this way, we won’t know about it:)

Well, otherwise they're just trying to get another first round pick because they're kids out there having fun and don't care much yet who is available. I doubt that's true.

Or they aren't trying to get another first round pick. I also doubt this is true, but is more plausible.

[Atl Spur]

Well, otherwise they're just trying to get another first round pick because they're kids out there having fun and don't care much yet who is available. I doubt that's true.

Or they aren't trying to get another first round pick. I also doubt this is true, but is more plausible.

Yeah…..that’s it. Hopefully it works out for us:)

[rjv]

Yeah, they're definitely not jumping up/into the draft without a clear picture of what they're going after, which is why we'll be left speculating all the way until draft night. Probably any deal gets done on the clock, only if their target is available.

complicating matters is that there is no certainty regarding the picks from 2-10.

[exstatic]

complicating matters is that there is no certainty regarding the picks from 2-10.

Right. It sounds like maybe they have a team looking to trade out of the top of the draft in a position where a player they really like may be available. We’ll never know what it was unless the trade goes down.

My WAG is Detroit at 5 and Anthony Black as the target.

[Mr. Body]

Right. It sounds like maybe they have a team looking to trade out of the top of the draft in a position where a player they really like may be available. We’ll never know what it was unless the trade goes down.

My WAG is Detroit at 5 and Anthony Black as the target.

What do you see a trade with Detroit looking like? IMO they're the least likely trading partner after the Top 4.

[Ariel]

Detroit desperately needs wings. I think they probably try to trade up to get Brandon Miller, and if not they'll pick up Cam Whitmore, which is the right move IMO. The only way we could have a chance could be something like, say, Keldon + unprotected Spurs '24. and that's a MAYBE. I wouldn't do that for Anthony Black though, I really like him but it's too much.

[Mr. Body]

Detroit desperately needs wings. I think they probably try to trade up to get Brandon Miller, and if not they'll pick up Cam Whitmore, which is the right move IMO. The only way we could have a chance could be something like, say, Keldon + unprotected Spurs '24. and that's a MAYBE. I wouldn't do that for Anthony Black though, I really like him but it's too much.

I feel like Detroit uses their pick. I'm not even sure they have a big appetite to go get Miller. And I feel like they'll take Whitmore or Ausar. (Reading their boards tends in this direction, too.)

But I do know, and I will repeat this over and over, that the Spurs are never going to trade Keldon to a team in a horrible, still-tanking circumstance. It's just not going to happen. A Dallas or a New York? Yes. To a really bad team? No.

[Ariel]

But I do know, and I will repeat this over and over, that the Spurs are never going to trade Keldon to a team in a horrible, still-tanking circumstance. It's just not going to happen. A Dallas or a New York? Yes. To a really bad team? No.
Yes, I already said something similar. Keldon just signed an extension, turning around and shipping him out against his will sends a horrible message and pretty much guarantees no other rookie will agree to a team friendly deal. Only way I see him being moved in the recent future is if he's ok with it. In a couple of years, that's a different story.

[Mugen]

Right. It sounds like maybe they have a team looking to trade out of the top of the draft in a position where a player they really like may be available. We’ll never know what it was unless the trade goes down.

My WAG is Detroit at 5 and Anthony Black as the target.

I'd guess Amen tbh. But yeah Black isn't making it past Washington at #8 IMO.

[rascal]

I'd guess Amen tbh. But yeah Black isn't making it past Washington at #8 IMO.

Wash also likes Cason Wallace. Utah might take Gradey Dick(they need shooting) or Black. If they go Dick then Dallas has a shot at Black.

[rascal]

I feel like Detroit uses their pick. I'm not even sure they have a big appetite to go get Miller. And I feel like they'll take Whitmore or Ausar. (Reading their boards tends in this direction, too.)

But I do know, and I will repeat this over and over, that the Spurs are never going to trade Keldon to a team in a horrible, still-tanking circumstance. It's just not going to happen. A Dallas or a New York? Yes. To a really bad team? No.

Most likely Cam is going to Detroit. Ivey, Cam, Duren and Cade an exciting team.

[RC_Drunkford]

with how TimVP was reporting that the Spurs are high on the Thompson twins, I'd assume they are trying to get one of them

[buttsR4rebounding]

with how TimVP was reporting that the Spurs are high on the Thompson twins, I'd assume they are trying to get one of them

Bleacher Report had an interesting mock with trades. Portland trades #3 to Orlando for 2 players and Orlando’s lottery picks. Portland then traded #6, Nurkik, and Leon Johnson to SA for KJ. SA selects Ausar Thompson. Pure fantasy, but fun.

[Mr. Body]

with how TimVP was reporting that the Spurs are high on the Thompson twins, I'd assume they are trying to get one of them

If you can see the tiger, you're not the prey.

[DPG21920]

Thoughts?

1662201354226475009

[Mugen]

Thoughts?

1662201354226475009

Would need another first tbh (I don't think teams value the CHA pick much even with Scoot on the way) and Nick Smith sucks.

[spurraider21]

Thoughts?

1662201354226475009
pleasantly surprised that account has been tweeting about basketball and not bitcult stuff

[RC_Drunkford]

If you can see the tiger, you're not the prey.

Honestly for a team that wants to run and play at a high pace the Thompson twins are perfect. The problem is they can't shoot and are very raw overall, but I can see the fit

[exstatic]

Would need another first tbh (I don't think teams value the CHA pick much even with Scoot on the way) and Nick Smith sucks.

A third FRP for #11? There’s a pretty good chance that Toronto’s pick is even, or better, so that the CHA pick would just be a sweetener. I hated the OKC trade last year where they gave up three FRPs for #11. Ain’t nobody I want at #11 at the cost of three FRPs

[Mr. Body]

I don't think Anthony Black will be availalbe at 11. I really don't think he lasts past Washington (8) or Utah (9). Both teams badly need point guards. Their fan bases seem to support this (if disagree about the targets).

If Orlando keeps that pick, and I think they will, Gradey Dick is likely to be there and they should take him without hesitation. He's exactly right for their needs.

I do think there are teams that might trade a pick out of the round, but not sure Orlando is one of them.

That said, if I can get Anthony Black for those two picks next year, I do it without hesitation. I'll throw in the 33 this year without thinking.

[rascal]

Honestly for a team that wants to run and play at a high pace the Thompson twins are perfect. The problem is they can't shoot and are very raw overall, but I can see the fit

Black is a Spurtalk favorite and he can't shoot either.

[rascal]

A third FRP for #11? There’s a pretty good chance that Toronto’s pick is even, or better, so that the CHA pick would just be a sweetener. I hated the OKC trade last year where they gave up three FRPs for #11. Ain’t nobody I want at #11 at the cost of three FRPs

There is more value in current known picks than unknown picks with protections.

Char may not even convey and that Toronto pick might end up in the 20s in a weaker draft class next year.

[Dejounte]

Land any of Jordan Hawkins, Rayan Rupert, or Cason Wallace and I’m happy! Waited so long for the draft lottery now it feels like forever until draft night.

[Dejounte]

The way Hawkins moves offball is incredible. If everything is smokescreen, then I hope Hawkins is the guy behind the smoke.

[BackHome]

He is the best shooter in this class

[Dejounte]

He is the best shooter in this class

In years tbh

Have not seen a player know how to navigate around screens like that since Ray Allen. He does not stop running around.

[rascal]

The way Hawkins moves offball is incredible. If everything is smokescreen, then I hope Hawkins is the guy behind the smoke.

Yes, Spurs need a shooter.

Hit big shots in the championship run so good under pressure.

[Mr. Body]

Just gaming out top picks. I'm glad we don't have to worry about this part of the draft. I actually feel fairly confident about most of these picks right now (barring trades):

SAS - Victor Wembanyama
CHA - Scoot Henderson
POR - Brandon Miller
HOU - Amen Thompson
DET - Cam Whitmore
ORL - Taylor Hendricks
IND - Jarace Walker

I feel like Charlotte not taking Scoot is a complete feint they aren't taking seriously. Portland may ultimately trade that pick elsewhere. If they keep it, finally some scoring from a non-guard position.

Houston picking Amen seems so obvious I start wondering if it's not. Looking through Detroit boards and needs, Whitmore seems really obvious there. The Orlando spot is not the clearest. Looking through Orlando spaces, they like Hendricks most of their options. Like Houston, Indiana picking Jarace Walker seems very obvious.

After this, we have Washington and Utah, with Ausar Thompson, Cason Wallace, Anthony Black still available. I feel like Washington would take Ausar. I think Utah would take Black, but Wallace may be just as good an option and seems like an Ainge pick.

Dallas would have the option to trade out or pick the leftover. I don't think anyone still available is great for them. I'm going to say it's Black/Wallace and traded. They might take Gradey Dick and keep him. Maybe Dereck Lively?

Orlando seems to absolutely take Gradey Dick if he's available.

After this, for shits n giggles, things get more uncertain.

OKC fans seem convinced they're taking Leonard Miller.

Toronto fans really like Keyonte George, but there's variance here.

NOP is a complete question mark. That team has more uncertainty than they'd like. Some want to trade it. Maybe Jordan Hawkins or Dariq Whitehead...

Then things get wild, like usual. It feels like there are more 'set' picks and needs in the lottery this year over last year. Later picks, I like the Lakers taking Nick Smith, actually, and then GSW maybe trading out. Brooklyn, a little later, will grab better players than most players around them and take like Kobe Bufkin and Coulibaly.

[RC_Drunkford]

In years tbh

Have not seen a player know how to navigate around screens like that since Ray Allen. He does not stop running around.

that sounds like a good fit with Sochan distributing the ball at the top of the key kinda like the Warriors do with Draymond. I gotta watch some tape on him

[tonight...you]

In years tbh

Have not seen a player know how to navigate around screens like that since Ray Allen. He does not stop running around.
My ears are perked.

[DPG21920]

pleasantly surprised that account has been tweeting about basketball and not bitcult stuff

Don’t hate - bitcoin pays for my ticket give aways and charity :lol

[Mr. Body]

Gradey Dick rates as a better shooter to me than Hawkins in this draft. Surprisingly, Malaki had a better 3pt percentage than both of them last year, but obviously he shot fewer and only in certain circumstances. Hawkins is constantly cycling and shoots a ton from deep.

Branham is the much worse defender. Hawkins actually is pretty good defensively. Where Branham gets him is Hawkins is not good handling the ball and a pretty bad passer. They both have issues producing other than scoring.

[scott]

Would need another first tbh (I don't think teams value the CHA pick much even with Scoot on the way) and Nick Smith sucks.

Yeah, CHA + TOR + one more that could either be CHI or a SA lotto protected is probably more market price if you look at the OKC trade last year.

Would have to be on the clock with the Spurs target sitting there though. Can’t do that deal in advance.

[DPG21920]

Im not doing 3 picks. The fact that TOR pick could be better should be enough alongside another first IMO….I mean I wont cry if SA loves someone enough to do it, but that’s too much IMO.

I really like Cason (I’m just assuming Black will be gone by 10+)

[Ariel]

Yeah, CHA + TOR + one more that could either be CHI or a SA lotto protected is probably more market price if you look at the OKC trade last year.

Would have to be on the clock with the Spurs target sitting there though. Can’t do that deal in advance.
Toronto + Charlotte + Chicago / SA (even if protected) is just crazy, probably 2 of those picks convey as high as 11 or even higher (Toronto + Chicago/SA), and the other has improved its chances significantly. No one in that range is worth that much, at that price I'd rather stand pat and wait for another opportunity.

[scott]

Im not doing 3 picks. The fact that TOR pick could be better should be enough alongside another first IMO….I mean I wont cry if SA loves someone enough to do it, but that’s too much IMO.

I really like Cason (I’m just assuming Black will be gone by 10+)

I get your logic, but “might be” up to 4 picks better, a year later, might be enough of a time value premium on its own but thats before factoring for risk adjustment and the strength of draft class evaluation. The CHA pick helps, but still don’t think it’s enough if you balance out all the odds. There are some decent draft pick trade value models out there, but none really address the time value of picks (a pick today is worth generally worth more than the same pick in the future - the only exception would likely be when accounting for draft class strength and generational talents at the very top end of the draft. For picks in the middle of the round, it would be highly unlikely for class strength factor to be stronger than time value). Same concept as the time value of money.

[Ariel]

The strength of draft class one year ahead is complete BS, you can only spot a Wemby or a Banchero that far ahead, and those are not the guys at #11. Black, Hendricks, Cason Wallace, those guys were in no one's radar one year ago. The fallacy is believing you're trading future uncertainty for present certainty, when in fact you're only trading 3 shots for 1, none of which guarantee anything.
The value of picks in time depends on the team in question, for some team that's overloaded with picks or burdened cap wise, a future pick may be worth more than a present one. It's largely contingent on the case, and if you can't find a fair trading partner you're better served doing nothing.

[scott]

Toronto + Charlotte + Chicago / SA (even if protected) is just crazy, probably 2 of those picks convey as high as 11 or even higher (Toronto + Chicago/SA), and the other has improved its chances significantly. No one in that range is worth that much, at that price I'd rather stand pat and wait for another opportunity.

I also wouldn’t do it - but that is the last market data we have. The fact that Toronto’s pick “might” be up to 4 slots better in the future does not equate the picks alone.

Maybe ORL does it for just TOR and CHA, but I wouldn’t if I were in their shoes.

[scott]

The strength of draft class one year ahead is complete BS, you can only spot a Wemby or a Banchero that far ahead, and those are not the guys at #11. Black, Hendricks, Cason Wallace, those guys were in no one's radar one year ago. The fallacy is believing you're trading future uncertainty for present certainty, when in fact you're only trading 3 shots for 1, none of which guarantee anything.
The value of picks in time depends on the team in question, for some team that's overloaded with picks or burdened cap wise, a future pick may be worth more than a present one. It's largely contingent on the case, and if you can't find a fair trading partner you're better served doing nothing.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I just said.

“the only exception would likely be when accounting for draft class strength and generational talents at the very top end of the draft. For picks in the middle of the round, it would be highly unlikely for class strength factor to be stronger than time value”

[exstatic]

I get your logic, but “might be” up to 4 picks better, a year later, might be enough of a time value premium on its own but thats before factoring for risk adjustment and the strength of draft class evaluation. The CHA pick helps, but still don’t think it’s enough if you balance out all the odds. There are some decent draft pick trade value models out there, but none really address the time value of picks (a pick today is worth generally worth more than the same pick in the future - the only exception would likely be when accounting for draft class strength and generational talents at the very top end of the draft. For picks in the middle of the round, it would be highly unlikely for class strength factor to be stronger than time value). Same concept as the time value of money.

I’d do 3 picks for #6, but not for#11. Just because OKC was brain dead last year, and traded 3 picks for one outside of the top 10 doesn’t mean we have to follow suit.

[scott]

The practical example of this… if you have the number 1 pick and the top talent is Anthony Bennett, but you know next year has Lebrun or Wemby… you might be willing to trade the 100% sure thing #1 pick at what you feel is a decent shot at #1 next year (the flattened lotto odds have made this tougher… but the disparity in talent between an Anthony Bennett and a Lebron might make you willing to take a 14% shot).

The opposite is also true. There is no way in hell you are going to trade a 100% sure thing at Wemby even if you were somehow guaranteed the #1 pick in the following 3 years.

However, this effect can really only be taken into account at the very top end of the draft. It is next to impossible to know a year out the strength of the next year’s class in the middle of the round short of some scenario where all the talent is holding out of this year’s draft because of some weird CBA hiccup that drains all the talent out of one draft (which, to my knowledge has never happened and likely never would).

[scott]

I’d do 3 picks for #6, but not for#11. Just because OKC was brain dead last year, and traded 3 picks for one outside of the top 10 doesn’t mean we have to follow suit.

Like I said, I wouldn’t do it either, especially since our ST targets are all likely depleted at 11. But I don’t think ORL is doing it for CHA and TOR. But… they might! Would be ecstatic if that happened.

[Atl Spur]

We have our two shooting guards already right? Hawkins would be dope but how does he get to see time on the court…

[rascal]

We have our two shooting guards already right? Hawkins would be dope but how does he get to see time on the court…

By shooting the ball better than the current players.

[Mr. Body]

We have our two shooting guards already right? Hawkins would be dope but how does he get to see time on the court…

Yes, you're drafting him over Branham. I do think the Spurs want shooting, of course they do, but more at the wing.

[DPG21920]

I get your logic, but “might be” up to 4 picks better, a year later, might be enough of a time value premium on its own but thats before factoring for risk adjustment and the strength of draft class evaluation. The CHA pick helps, but still don’t think it’s enough if you balance out all the odds. There are some decent draft pick trade value models out there, but none really address the time value of picks (a pick today is worth generally worth more than the same pick in the future - the only exception would likely be when accounting for draft class strength and generational talents at the very top end of the draft. For picks in the middle of the round, it would be highly unlikely for class strength factor to be stronger than time value). Same concept as the time value of money.

I get that - and Im fine swapping CHI pick with CHA pick too. Just not 3 picks. Especially looking at the trade deadline where getting a 1st was extremely difficult. Even good players were only fetching 2nds etc…

So with that in mind, giving someone an extra first, with more potential than the one they give up when they already get pick 6 as well? Just saying I think it may be solid enough. But ya, Im not saying it’s a slam dunk or no brained for ORL. Just that I can see a path to something like that being an opportunity with them or maybe a team around them willing to trade.

Hard to tell - trade deadline was strange with regards to firsts and values.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I’d do 3 picks for #6, but not for#11. Just because OKC was brain dead last year, and traded 3 picks for one outside of the top 10 doesn’t mean we have to follow suit.

All 3 picks were heavily protected. Also, a team with such a large war chest of picks as OKC has will value individual picks at a lower level than the average team. The timing of the picks along with the team’s current roster construction can raise or lower picks’ values.

[DPG21920]

But I just checked. OKC gave up pick 11 and the picks they got back:

Washington- top 14
Denver- top 14
Detroit-top 18

All definitely worse than 11.

So CHI being top 8 protected & TOR top 6 to me offsets not throwing in a 3rd (I can see using some extra 2nds though).

[DPG21920]

But none of this matters lol - it’s just a general mindset/framework where I would be happy if SA was looking at something like this. Using some of the picks to cash in now and get a player they like.

If they can’t get ok value and/or don’t like players THAT much, all good too.

[Chinook]

I don't love trading the Toronto pick, but three picks is doable. I'd prefer for the team to see how high it can get with CHA24, CHI25 and 33. The best scenario I could see is those picks plus turning Graham into THJ might get Dallas to punt on 10. The Spurs clean up their future pick pool while getting a good second pick in this draft. Between this and waiving Bertans, Dallas saves a sh'ton of money toward the aprons and collects future assets to try to shore up pieces around Kyrie and Doncic. Graham gives them the scoring-guard off the bench piece they keep letting go only to realize they actually need them.

[DPG21920]

Ya - there are lots of paths. Im just mentally working through possibilities using picks to consolidate some picks, look for opportunities while not giving up anyone in core like Keldon/Vassell/etc..

But Zach, Graham, Doug and people like that Im good with

The TOR pick thing is only if they really love someone obviously. I do think the value regardless of TOR + CHA pick should be done no matter what if possible, but largely agree the TOR pick is valuable and likely only gets on the table if there’s a player SA really loves

[buttsR4rebounding]

But I just checked. OKC gave up pick 11 and the picks they got back:

Washington- top 14
Denver- top 14
Detroit-top 18

All definitely worse than 11.

So CHI being top 8 protected & TOR top 6 to me offsets not throwing in a 3rd (I can see using some extra 2nds though).

So both the Washington and especially Detroit pick may have issues with conveyance and the Denver pick is likely to be 25th or lower. All picks are not created equal. I’m not necessarily disagreeing I’m just saying I can understand doing it if it’s a guy they are really targeting.

[Mr. Body]

So both the Washington and especially Detroit pick may have issues with conveyance and the Denver pick is likely to be 25th or lower. All picks are not created equal. I’m not necessarily disagreeing I’m just saying I can understand doing it if it’s a guy they are really targeting.

All three picks were 2023 picks. Two of them were pushed forward because they did not convey this year. The Denver pick was traded by NYK to Charlotte as part of the very confusing trade that got Duren to Detroit. Charlotte currently has that 2023 pick from Denver, which is #27.

[buttsR4rebounding]

All three picks were 2023 picks. Two of them were pushed forward because they did not convey this year. The Denver pick was traded by NYK to Charlotte as part of the very confusing trade that got Duren to Detroit. Charlotte currently has that 2023 pick from Denver, which is #27.

So depending on the conveyance details I wouldn’t be too confident in the Detroit pick coming to fruition. I’m sure that was part of the trade calculus.

[Mr. Body]

I've floated the idea of trading one of the 2024 picks to a team wanting to get out of this year. Both Golden State and Brooklyn do not have any draft picks next year. (GSW's is 1-4 protected, going to Memphis.)

Golden State is at 19
Brooklyn is at 21 and 22

I don't think you want to trade either the Charlotte or Toronto picks straight up, but there's something possible.

With the 19 or 21, you could perhaps entice Dallas more with a package absorbing salary with a player later in the draft. More attractive for them than leaving this draft without any players at all.

Dallas also has no picks next year, likely owing New York their 1-10 protected pick. They also have no SRPs this year. They came away with Jaden Hardy last second round and he's been alright.

SO... Getting GSW or BKN to trade one of their picks this year for one next year (and other accomodations) gives a platform to make Dallas comfortable trading their #10. This is because they still get a decent player in this draft. And whatever else.

This can get the Spurs to #10.

[Mr. Body]

So depending on the conveyance details I wouldn’t be too confident in the Detroit pick coming to fruition. I’m sure that was part of the trade calculus.

The Detroit pick's protections: 1-13 in 2025, 1-11 in 2026 and 1-9 in 2027
The Washington pick's protections: 1-12 in 2024, 1-10 in 2025 and 1-8 in 2026

They each become one or two SRPs if they don't convey.

They're not awful. They're bad franchises. It sort of beggars belief that neither of them will make the POs in those ranges. And they don't have to make the POs, they just have to improve to be not completely awful. But... yeah. Who knows.

[DPG21920]

Im just saying trading TOR + CHI picks for 11 means ORL gets plenty of value IMO. Spurs may not want to do that, but I don’t think the OKC trade means it has to be 3 1sts but you never know.

Will be interesting to see how this shakes out. Seemingly lots of sellers on paper at this point. Combine that with how trade deadline made it appear like days of teams just throwing a bunch of firsts at teams are somewhat coming to an end and you never know.

But that could have been Wemby effect where no team was giving up even a 1% shot at Wemby. Now that is over and teams know, they may be willing to trade firsts again since there’s no Wemby next draft

[exstatic]

So depending on the conveyance details I wouldn’t be too confident in the Detroit pick coming to fruition. I’m sure that was part of the trade calculus.

The protections on the Detroit pick drop to 1-9 by 2027. The Washington pick protections drop to 1-8 by 2026. Those will both likely convey, although it will take a while.

[scott]

But I just checked. OKC gave up pick 11 and the picks they got back:

Washington- top 14
Denver- top 14
Detroit-top 18

All definitely worse than 11.

So CHI being top 8 protected & TOR top 6 to me offsets not throwing in a 3rd (I can see using some extra 2nds though).

They are all heavily protected up front, but they do slide to lower protections pretty nicely.

Maybe CHI + CHA + 33 is the Compromise? Of course, they aren't going to invite any of us to the negotiating table if talks did occur :lol

[DPG21920]

They are all heavily protected up front, but they do slide to lower protections pretty nicely.

Maybe CHI + CHA + 33 is the Compromise? Of course, they aren't going to invite any of us to the negotiating table if talks did occur :lol

Haha - I would even do CHI + TOR, but ya, it’s not set in stone. Just a general framework :lol

[scott]

So both the Washington and especially Detroit pick may have issues with conveyance and the Denver pick is likely to be 25th or lower. All picks are not created equal. I’m not necessarily disagreeing I’m just saying I can understand doing it if it’s a guy they are really targeting.

The WAS pick goes to Top 12 Protected in 2024, Top 10 in 2025 and Top 8 in 2026.

The DET pick is Top 18 in 2024, Top 13 in 2025, Top 11 in 2016, Top 9 in 2027>

Just the thing to consider in the calculus. So while on first glance WAS and DET picks may look less valuable than say, the CHA pick, they likely do have a higher chance of conveying (longer time horizons and more aggressive with the protections declining). One of the things I love about NBA pick trading is all these wrinkles that make objective valuation difficult.

[Mr. Body]

Guys, I think you're inventing a trade for a pick Orlando doesn't want to trade. They're going to find much-needed shooting there. IMO they're more likely to trade the 6.

[DPG21920]

The WAS pick goes to Top 12 Protected in 2024, Top 10 in 2025 and Top 8 in 2026.

The DET pick is Top 18 in 2024, Top 13 in 2025, Top 11 in 2016, Top 9 in 2027>

Just the thing to consider in the calculus. So while on first glance WAS and DET picks may look less valuable than say, the CHA pick, they likely do have a higher chance of conveying (longer time horizons and more aggressive with the protections declining). One of the things I love about NBA pick trading is all these wrinkles that make objective valuation difficult.

To me a combo of TOR + CHI picks are stronger than that and should be more than enough value. Im more unsure SA does that vs ORL tbh..

[DPG21920]

Guys, I think you're inventing a trade for a pick Orlando doesn't want to trade. They're going to find much-needed shooting there. IMO they're more likely to trade the 6.

We don’t know - don’t focus on that IMO. Just teams in that general range and using the pick combos SA has to move up in that area. But if you aren’t looking to move Keldon etc..then it will have to be a team that isn’t obsessed with moving a pick for a “win now” player etc..

But at end of the day there may be nothing there and this is all moot anyways.

[scott]

I've floated the idea of trading one of the 2024 picks to a team wanting to get out of this year. Both Golden State and Brooklyn do not have any draft picks next year. (GSW's is 1-4 protected, going to Memphis.)

Golden State is at 19
Brooklyn is at 21 and 22

I don't think you want to trade either the Charlotte or Toronto picks straight up, but there's something possible.

With the 19 or 21, you could perhaps entice Dallas more with a package absorbing salary with a player later in the draft. More attractive for them than leaving this draft without any players at all.

Dallas also has no picks next year, likely owing New York their 1-10 protected pick. They also have no SRPs this year. They came away with Jaden Hardy last second round and he's been alright.

SO... Getting GSW or BKN to trade one of their picks this year for one next year (and other accomodations) gives a platform to make Dallas comfortable trading their #10. This is because they still get a decent player in this draft. And whatever else.

This can get the Spurs to #10.

I would def do the CHA pick straight up for either of those. For the GSW pick, you're giving up a maximum of 4 draft slots in the future for the certainty of #19 now. I do that in a heartbeat if I'm the Spurs. I would probably want some SRP sweeteners (maybe even up to 33) if I am GSW.

[Mr. Body]

I would def do the CHA pick straight up for either of those. For the GSW pick, you're giving up a maximum of 4 draft slots in the future for the certainty of #19 now. I do that in a heartbeat if I'm the Spurs. I would probably want some SRP sweeteners (maybe even up to 33) if I am GSW.

Well, one, the Spurs won't want to actually take 3 FRPs next year (I don't think). Better to take two good rookies this year, then see what comes.

But if they manage to swap CHA 2024 for the 19 or 21, then there are two routes IMO:

1. They target players like Kobe Bufkin or Jordan Hawkins. I think both or either may go a bit earlier. Haven't gamed it out; one might be there.
2. They use the 19 or 21 to move up with other assets.

[scott]

Guys, I think you're inventing a trade for a pick Orlando doesn't want to trade. They're going to find much-needed shooting there. IMO they're more likely to trade the 6.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more Orlando probably wants to use both picks. Getting any combo of Cam/Walker/Hendrix and Dick/Hawkins/George would probably fit their roster pretty well.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The Detroit pick's protections: 1-13 in 2025, 1-11 in 2026 and 1-9 in 2027
The Washington pick's protections: 1-12 in 2024, 1-10 in 2025 and 1-8 in 2026

They each become one or two SRPs if they don't convey.

They're not awful. They're bad franchises. It sort of beggars belief that neither of them will make the POs in those ranges. And they don't have to make the POs, they just have to improve to be not completely awful. But... yeah. Who knows.

No, they aren’t as bad as I figured. They will likely convey in 2025 although if Washington ever trades Beal that’s not a lock.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more Orlando probably wants to use both picks. Getting any combo of Cam/Walker/Hendrix and Dick/Hawkins/George would probably fit their roster pretty well.

Agreed. But there may be a situation where they value “value” more than that player at 11 alongside knowing that netting an extra first may help in future deals if they are trying to make leap sooner to playoff team and they want to add vets via trade. But not sure - I see both angles.