So Who's Gonna Go? A discussion of the current roster.

[Obstructed_View]

It's an amazing time to be a Spurs fan. I'm seeing a dizzying amount of analysis about who the Spurs should get to go with their prize draft pick. Second round gems, starting centers, free-agent flopping bitches. We're like kids with Mom's credit card at the candy store. We got our shopping carts full of sweets and are looking for more.

But there remains a reality that the Spurs have a roster full of players at the moment, each of which has some value, depending on the team's plans. Assuming they want to keep all their free agents, let's talk about some of the guys, and how they might fit. We talk about dozens of players we might bring in. Let's talk about who's here now.

Are the Spurs building for the future or making a playoff run?

This seems like the biggest question. And someone making a case for a player has to have an idea why or why not. Devonte Graham has voiced a commitment to preparing to be a valuable role player for the Spurs. Doug McDermott seems like exactly the kind of shooter you want to play a two-man game with Victor. But if you're going to roll with the youngsters, those guys seem like the first ones that have some value. If you decide to wait until the trade deadline, then you can't grab a bunch of free agents and draft picks now without someone having to go. Right now the only vet who isn't going to be here is Gorgui Dieng, and Victor gets his roster spot.

If you're building for the future, then the roster has a glut of guys in whom the Spurs have committed some level of effort to develop. Do you just throw away the two-way guys and waste the time spent letting them learn? Were they just here for the tank? Is a random second-round draft pick going to automatically be better? Do you trade Keldon Johnson because he's got value and count on a draft pick developing into a useful player? How long do you wait? Do you think Tre Jones is a backup? Do you let him go because Sochan is your point forward? Who else is running the offense?

I could write paragraphs on this stuff, but there's too much in my head. I'm interested in your thoughts about it. But try to follow some rules: If you want to bring in a free agent, who do you think needs to go? If you want to draft two guys in the second round, who are they replacing? If you think Keldon is trash and should be traded, what does trash bring back in a trade? Vet or rookie? Win now or build for the future? Do you believe that all the guys on the roster are actually a 20 win team, or were they held back and load-managed into winning the greatest prize in basketball, and can now be unleashed with their future superstar?

Pick a guy on the roster you want to keep or jettison and say why. Or just opine on how you think the Spurs should build going forward. I'll make specific posts about guys or groups of guys on the roster and we can talk about them individually.

[Obstructed_View]

Keldon Johnson

This is a name that comes up a lot as a trade chip. But why? Keldon has improved pretty steadily, and who knows what he's going to be when he shows up in the fall? He's also been a good leader and a team guy, he's an emotional spark plug, and he's on a good contract. Do you make him sixth man? Do you wait and see? Do you package him with second round picks for a shot at another big rookie?

1. Age

Tanking aside, we think the Spurs traded Jakob Poetl and Dejounte Murray because they were older than the core. They could bring back some value and could go to teams that were ready to compete. Keldon may be at that point now. If you're going with yet another youth movement, I guess you could make a case.

2. Skillset

He is small for a power forward, he's short for a small forward, and he's slow for a shooting guard. But that mismatch works in reverse as well, making him a problem for defenders at each position. He is a developing shooter and a fearless inside scorer, and seems like a team guy. Personally, I like him. I think he's the kind of guy you don't let go. He can cause matchup problems for teams and he looks like a winner. He doesn't really fit a traditional starting role, so make him the first guy off the bench to use his energy to punish gassed starters and second teamers. Also, he deserves to have a chance to win with the Spurs. Seems like a dick move to make him lose for a year, and then send him away just as the team's fortunes seem to be turning.

[Philthemage]

Mamu. I really hope we keep him because I love his creativity on offense. Defensively he may be below par but
I hope we have enough guys / system which can mask it.

[Mr. Body]

They're building for the future, but the time horizon has shortened considerably. If they make the playoffs this year, then fantastic. They may really go for it next year.

The shortened development horizon probably affects the guys who were on the longer development track the most. I mark those as Malaki Branham, Blake Wesley, and Dominick Barlow. They each have promising (or very promising) skill sets, but may not have the same leisure and opportunity afforded Vassel, Johnson, Murray.

Then we have the rescues. Spurs astutely picked up cast-aways Charles Bassey, Sasho Mamukelashvili, and Julian Champagnie. Each is 22-24 years old and cannot be said to be 'development' prospects in quite the same way as the 19 year-olds. But each was stuck on stacked playoff teams where they couldn't find court time.

Last we have Keldon Johnson, alone of the core, although I'll mention Tre Jones, who is an almost 'must keep' due to his position. Keldon's timeline was actually very short, in my opinion. I think he might have been traded by the trade deadline as a 'good soldier' move, getting him to a playoff team. But now that's changed.

Of everyone mentioned:
Malaki Branham has the best chance to stay. His ceiling is unknown but high; only way I see him getting eventually moved is defense.
Blake Wesley will have at least another year to develop. I do think his future is wobbly, mostly because of guards that could get drafted eventually.
Dominick Barlow will get another year, probably.

Mamu, Champagnie have good skill sets. But are they NBA rotation guys? Champagnie seems safe - the team badly needs shooting. Mamu's skill set could be exceptional next to Wemby at times.

Bassey is locked into a remarkably cheap contract for several years and his strength and growing skill set could be very useful.

tl;dr I don't think anyone's out the door at all. But the horizon has shortened on what the team will be able to offer in terms of development and guaranteed roster spots. If the Spurs were looking at the playoffs in 2-3 years without the scads of draft picks, that would be one thing. But they will need to start trying to improve the starting lineup. And they may need to pull the plug earlier on a guy like Wesley.

[exstatic]

Mamu. I really hope we keep him because I love his creativity on offense. Defensively he may be below par but
I hope we have enough guys / system which can mask it.

Well, we should have one guy next year who can.

One of the archetypes that teams are hunting is a Jumbo Creator, guys 6’8” or 6’9” who and good handles, passing and vision. Mamu is a super jumbo creator at 6’11”. I see a better chance that Bassey gets traded than Mamu is let go.

[Obstructed_View]

They're building for the future, but the time horizon has shortened considerably. If they make the playoffs this year, then fantastic. They may really go for it next year.

The shortened development horizon probably affects the guys who were on the longer development track the most. I mark those as Malaki Branham, Blake Wesley, and Dominick Barlow. They each have promising (or very promising) skill sets, but may not have the same leisure and opportunity afforded Vassel, Johnson, Murray.

Then we have the rescues. Spurs astutely picked up cast-aways Charles Bassey, Sasho Mamukelashvili, and Julian Champagnie. Each is 22-24 years old and cannot be said to be 'development' prospects in quite the same way as the 19 year-olds. But each was stuck on stacked playoff teams where they couldn't find court time.

Last we have Keldon Johnson, alone of the core, although I'll mention Tre Jones, who is an almost 'must keep' due to his position. Keldon's timeline was actually very short, in my opinion. I think he might have been traded by the trade deadline as a 'good soldier' move, getting him to a playoff team. But now that's changed.

Of everyone mentioned:
Malaki Branham has the best chance to stay. His ceiling is unknown but high; only way I see him getting eventually moved is defense.
Blake Wesley will have at least another year to develop. I do think his future is wobbly, mostly because of guards that could get drafted eventually.
Dominick Barlow will get another year, probably.

Mamu, Champagnie have good skill sets. But are they NBA rotation guys? Champagnie seems safe - the team badly needs shooting. Mamu's skill set could be exceptional next to Wemby at times.

Bassey is locked into a remarkably cheap contract for several years and his strength and growing skill set could be very useful.

tl;dr I don't think anyone's out the door at all. But the horizon has shortened on what the team will be able to offer in terms of development and guaranteed roster spots. If the Spurs were looking at the playoffs in 2-3 years without the scads of draft picks, that would be one thing. But they will need to start trying to improve the starting lineup. And they may need to pull the plug earlier on a guy like Wesley.

Man, that's a good post. You organized 90 percent of what's in my head on this topic. Thank you.

You touched on all the guys I have an opinion on keeping. Birch, KBD, and Langford seem like the first guys to sacrifice for draft picks or free agents. I love Blake Wesley, but you are correct that he needs to show improvement sooner rather than later if he wants to stick.

[Mr. Body]

Only way I see Mamu getting cut/not resigned is if he's a total disaster in some way, like defensively, and he won't be. He has a great personality, works hard, and like ec says has very good creation abilities, which didn't work as well on Milwuakee but can be exceptional on the Spurs. Slightly different skillset, but he can fill-in for Sochan while playing the same secondary creation/instigation role.

[Mr. Body]

Champagnie I don't see having a long-term future here, just feeling like he's limited, even if his late-season shooting was real. I can see the FO targeting shooters (and wings) in future drafts. This team just literally has no other SF in the more traditional mold on the roster than Champagnie.

[slick'81]

Mamu is a guy pop will love. Guys like birch,kbd barlow and langford are disposable

[Obstructed_View]

Champagnie I don't see having a long-term future here, just feeling like he's limited, even if his late-season shooting was real. I can see the FO targeting shooters (and wings) in future drafts. This team just literally has no other SF in the more traditional mold on the roster than Champagnie.

He's also 22, but if you ignore the sample size, his scoring is pretty shocking. Have the Spurs announced the summer league roster yet? I'd hope JC is on that so we can see if it was a fluke or not.

[CGD]

I don’t really see the roster crunch. They can cut Birch, move on from KBD if they really need the space. This is a feel out year, and I really think they like all their end of bench prospects enough to keep looking at them. If they keep a SRP I assume that’s a 2 way candidate.

[Mr. Body]

He's also 22, but if you ignore the sample size, his scoring is pretty shocking. Have the Spurs announced the summer league roster yet? I'd hope JC is on that so we can see if it was a fluke or not.

I don't put huge stock in sudden late season production by fringe players on bad teams, whether it's Shaeden Sharpe or Julian Champagnie. Good teams are resting players for the playoffs and no longer gameplanning for awful opponents. Bad opponents are tanking and not rolling out their middling best.

That said, I did like how JC was hesitant to shoot, Pop got onto him, and he started letting it fly. If he can keep hitting, that's fantastic.

[exstatic]

I don’t really see the roster crunch. They can cut Birch, move on from KBD if they really need the space. This is a feel out year, and I really think they like all their end of bench prospects enough to keep looking at them. If they keep a SRP I assume that’s a 2 way candidate.

The roster crunch isn’t about this year. We can manage that. Next year, we again have 3 FRPs,in all likelihood, plus 3 SRPs. The guys signing this year won’t want to sign for one year. Ergo, roster crunch.

[Dverde]

I think they a going to run back almost the entire roster and see how they fit with Wemby. Next year will still be a rebuilding year and they’ll know more about what they have and what is needed moving forward at the end of it. I think KPD will sign elsewhere and Langford is out due to Branham’s solid play. Dieng is obviously out for roster space needs.

[MultiTroll]

Keldon Johnson

what he's going to be when he shows up in the fall?

2. Skillset

He is a developing shooter
Must know this info to decide. Last year was he simply following orders to chuck away and help complete the tank?
Or is he yet another Kobme Bryant school of idiot ball chuck chuck and chuck some more?

Seems he has to improve his outside shot or the +/- on his mismatches is too much minus.

If he vastly improves his outside shot, great. If not, then his trade value will tank.
There must be someone on Spurs staff who has a read on this. OTOH prolly never going to know until game time.

A dilemma indeed.

[mo7888]

I think Body and Ex nailed it on their summation on the roster. I'm going to limit my comment here to Keldon and Sochan. Obviously, one of them is going to be a 6th man. One of the key questions in my mind is, as a 6th man will that player embrace that role instead of just accepting it? I think the answer to that question will have a significant part to play in any trades we may be looking at. I would think at this point that the coaches/FO have a good idea about this. I don't have a feel for it yet myself..

[jjspur]

How well we do this upcoming season will depend a lot on how we do in this draft. Yes we got Wemby and that will help tremendously, but we have two other picks and a some decisions to make as to who stays and who goes. Select at least 1 of two decent 2nd rounders, let go of some unimpressive/always injured players, possibly make a surprise signing or trade and we have a very good chance to improve by at least 10-15 games. I'm sure the spurs have a plan and then probably a backup plan.

It all starts with a good draft and then the real fun begins. Do well spurs, last year really sucked but it really paid off. Lets move forward from this point on.

[Mr. Body]

I think Body and Ex nailed it on their summation on the roster. I'm going to limit my comment here to Keldon and Sochan. Obviously, one of them is going to be a 6th man. One of the key questions in my mind is, as a 6th man will that player embrace that role instead of just accepting it? I think the answer to that question will have a significant part to play in any trades we may be looking at. I would think at this point that the coaches/FO have a good idea about this. I don't have a feel for it yet myself..

PG and the Keldon/Sochan thing are the two biggest questions. As many have said, the PG spot can go with Jones/Graham/Wesley. My concern there isn't initiating offense but defending point-of-attack. Maybe they can do Collins-Wembenyama-Sochan-Johnson-Vassell but Devin would have to guard Fox, SGA, Kyrie, etc.

The PG can be resolved in many ways. The Sochan/Johnson question has fewer solutions:

For now, I feel like Keldon starts. His shooting improves the starting unit. Playing off Wembanyama he can slash and drive with impunity. I don't think he's as good off the bench. Sochan, however, came off the bench at Baylor and has that basket of skills that can plug in if the starters are stalling or just be a leader of the bench unit.

I don't think that's optimal. Eventually you want Sochan starting and that's why I think KJ may be moved eventually.

[mo7888]

PG and the Keldon/Sochan thing are the two biggest questions. As many have said, the PG spot can go with Jones/Graham/Wesley. My concern there isn't initiating offense but defending point-of-attack. Maybe they can do Collins-Wembenyama-Sochan-Johnson-Vassell but Devin would have to guard Fox, SGA, Kyrie, etc.

The PG can be resolved in many ways. The Sochan/Johnson question has fewer solutions:

For now, I feel like Keldon starts. His shooting improves the starting unit. Playing off Wembanyama he can slash and drive with impunity. I don't think he's as good off the bench. Sochan, however, came off the bench at Baylor and has that basket of skills that can plug in if the starters are stalling or just be a leader of the bench unit.

I don't think that's optimal. Eventually you want Sochan starting and that's why I think KJ may be moved eventually.

I agree with you on the Sochan/Keldon question being the more difficult one. There are several ways to address the PG issue. I do wish we'd hear a little more behind the scenes (looking at you Timvp) on Keldon and Sochan's thoughts/mentality about coming off the bench. That little bit of info might shed some light on what we're thinking re: trades.

[BacktoBasics]

There’s no reason Sochan can’t start at the 4 with Keldon at the 3. They play fine together.

[R. DeMurre]

I'm fine with the patient approach to suss out Wemby's fit, but my one concern about KJ is that he'll become San Antonio's John Collins, and the longer this happens, the lower his trade value becomes. People used to talk about Collins as a 20/10 guy but that was one year on a seriously losing team, and now he's viewed more objectively as something like a 15/8 guy, and nobody seems to want to offer much for him. Right now, some GMs might still see KJ as a 20 ppg piece with potential to be a #2 or #3 weapon on offense, but one more year of declining efficiency might eliminate that view. Of course, a guy like Aaron Gordon benefitted hugely from a change of scenery, and the most optimistic hope is that KJ does something similar running alongside Wembanyama. I'd still offer him to the Knicks for Quickley + salary filler in the hopes that IQ blossoms as a PG or efficient 6th man/combo guard, which seems like a much greater need than a 6'5" SF.

[mo7888]

There’s no reason Sochan can’t start at the 4 with Keldon at the 3. They play fine together.

In a year or two that'll probably work, but Zollins is starting at the 5 and Wembanyama at the 4 this year.

[Bruno]

Blake Wesley

He played 669 minutes for a 3.5 PER. The last time a NBA player played over 500 minutes in a season with a PER that bad was DeShawn Stevenson in 2009-2010...

If he doesn't show up during Summer League and in preseason, Spurs might not pick his third year option.

[TD 21]

I'm fine with the patient approach to suss out Wemby's fit, but my one concern about KJ is that he'll become San Antonio's John Collins, and the longer this happens, the lower his trade value becomes. People used to talk about Collins as a 20/10 guy but that was one year on a seriously losing team, and now he's viewed more objectively as something like a 15/8 guy, and nobody seems to want to offer much for him. Right now, some GMs might still see KJ as a 20 ppg piece with potential to be a #2 or #3 weapon on offense, but one more year of declining efficiency might eliminate that view. Of course, a guy like Aaron Gordon benefitted hugely from a change of scenery, and the most optimistic hope is that KJ does something similar running alongside Wembanyama. I'd still offer him to the Knicks for Quickley + salary filler in the hopes that IQ blossoms as a PG or efficient 6th man/combo guard, which seems like a much greater need than a 6'5" SF.

Nah. Johnson is on a team friendly contract and is a more desired archetype as a wing, who in a more streamlined role is probably a relatively efficient off-ball scorer/finisher.

Collins is a combo big, who's not adept either defending in space or at the rim, with limited ball skills offensively outside of spot up shooting, which cratered this past season.

I don't see the Knicks being interested in Johnson and the only way the Spurs get Quickley is drastically overpaying. Even then, the Knicks might work out a sign and trade to add more picks.

[R. DeMurre]

Nah. Johnson is on a team friendly contract and is a more desired archetype as a wing, who in a more streamlined role is probably a relatively efficient off-ball scorer/finisher.

Collins is a combo big, who's not adept either defending in space or at the rim, with limited ball skills offensively outside of spot up shooting, which cratered this past season.

I don't see the Knicks being interested in Johnson and the only way the Spurs get Quickley is drastically overpaying. Even then, the Knicks might work out a sign and trade to add more picks.


I wasn't comparing KJ's style or role to that of Collins. I was just making the comparison of potential dwindling trade value.

[exstatic]

Nah. Johnson is on a team friendly contract and is a more desired archetype as a wing, who in a more streamlined role is probably a relatively efficient off-ball scorer/finisher.

Collins is a combo big, who's not adept either defending in space or at the rim, with limited ball skills offensively outside of spot up shooting, which cratered this past season.

I don't see the Knicks being interested in Johnson and the only way the Spurs get Quickley is drastically overpaying. Even then, the Knicks might work out a sign and trade to add more picks.

He shot 37.4% from 3. Try harder for stuff to hate on. He was also #4 in opp/FG% at the rim in his second season.

[TD 21]

I wasn't comparing KJ's style or role to that of Collins. I was just making the comparison of potential dwindling trade value.

I know.


He shot 37.4% from 3. Try harder for stuff to hate on. He was also #4 in opp/FG% at the rim in his second season.

He shot 29.2% from 3. Try harder for stuff to refute me on. I doubt the latter, but either way that was 4 seasons ago.

[BackHome]

Blake Wesley

He played 669 minutes for a 3.5 PER. The last time a NBA player played over 500 minutes in a season with a PER that bad was DeShawn Stevenson in 2009-2010...

If he doesn't show up during Summer League and in preseason, Spurs might not pick his third year option.

I have to be honest I was Shocked that he played with the big boy club as he was picked as a "Potential" type of guy and those type generally need to be in G League working on things at one year and usually two years

[BackHome]

​I don't see a lot of changes this year other then we probably letting Birch, Dieng, and Langford go this upcoming season. After this season the Spurs will probably move on from McDermott and they will have to make a decision on Collins on keeping him or letting him walk.

As far as new contract looking at Tre to a team friendly deal as he knows he is the future backup he provides some stability. I really like Mamu because he is not that the most athletic player but he plays the beautiful game and I can see him really working with Sochan and Wemby. They are going to be so many cut back dunks and just nice passing to slashing players for easy point with these guys.

[scott]

In many ways, how fast the Spurs move on upgrading this roster somewhat depends on how Wemby looks in NBA games. If it looks like he’s going to have a 15/8/2 rookie season while only playing in 50 games, it make sense to go slow and continue to see how the rest of these young guys develop with more picks in coming. But if he looks more like he’s going to be 23/11/3 while playing in 70 games, all-star appearance, ROY, All NBA 3rd Team… then we’ve got to accelerate things and start moving those assets quickly. We should know all of this by the trade deadline.

[baseline bum]

In many ways, how fast the Spurs move on upgrading this roster somewhat depends on how Wemby looks in NBA games. If it looks like he’s going to have a 15/8/2 rookie season while only playing in 50 games, it make sense to go slow and continue to see how the rest of these young guys develop with more picks in coming. But if he looks more like he’s going to be 23/11/3 while playing in 70 games, all-star appearance, ROY, All NBA 3rd Team… then we’ve got to accelerate things and start moving those assets quickly. We should know all of this by the trade deadline.

I don't think Wemby putting up 23ppg would be all that surprising next season. 23ppg isn't that big a deal like it was when it was Tim doing it twenty years ago when you could play defense. There were 32 players who put up 23 ppg or more this season vs nine who did it back in 02-03 for example.

[Mr. Body]

Vic might get 3-4 buckets a game just on dump-offs and dunker-spot stuff. He might get 2-3 on putbacks a game. I might be underestimating.

[Obstructed_View]

I have to be honest I was Shocked that he played with the big boy club as he was picked as a "Potential" type of guy and those type generally need to be in G League working on things at one year and usually two years

If not for the tank, he definitely would have just been on the bench for road trips. But he proved he can get past NBA players and get his shit swatted away just like he does everywhere else. This is the year to prove he isn't just a deer.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think Wemby putting up 23ppg would be all that surprising next season. 23ppg isn't that big a deal like it was when it was Tim doing it twenty years ago when you could play defense. There were 32 players who put up 23 ppg or more this season vs nine who did it back in 02-03 for example.
Given the roster, I could see his assist numbers blow up.

[scott]

I don't think Wemby putting up 23ppg would be all that surprising next season. 23ppg isn't that big a deal like it was when it was Tim doing it twenty years ago when you could play defense. There were 32 players who put up 23 ppg or more this season vs nine who did it back in 02-03 for example.

Last rookie to put up 23+ PPG was Allen Iverson in 1996-97. Blake Griffen came close in 2010-11 with 22.5.

While 23ppg isn’t as a big deal as it used to be, rookie aren’t as prepared for the NBA as they used to be either (since everyone is 19 years old now).

Love your optimism, but we have to put things in some perspective.

[PhantomDashCam]

There were 23 players ahead of KJ in the PPG category league leaders this season. Only one of those players outside of Keldon - Jalen Green - has yet to be All-star in their career. All the rest have.

Counting stats certainly don't tell the entire story but it can put things in perspective at times. As Clark Kellogg would say, "...At the end of the day, this game is still about putting the ball in the basket".




#
Player
TEAM
GP
MIN
PTS



















1
Joel Embiid (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203954/traditional)
PHI (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612755/)
66
34.6
33.1



















2
Luka Doncic (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629029/traditional)
DAL (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612742/)
66
36.2
32.4



















3
Damian Lillard (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203081/traditional)
POR (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612757/)
58
36.3
32.2



















4
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628983/traditional)
OKC (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612760/)
68
35.5
31.4



















5
Giannis Antetokounmpo (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203507/traditional)
MIL (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612749/)
63
32.1
31.1



















6
Jayson Tatum (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628369/traditional)
BOS (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612738/)
74
36.9
30.1



















7
Donovan Mitchell (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628378/traditional)
CLE (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612739/)
68
35.8
28.3



















8
Kyrie Irving (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/202681/traditional)
DAL (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612742/)
60
37.4
27.1



















9
Jaylen Brown (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627759/traditional)
BOS (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612738/)
67
35.9
26.6



















10
Trae Young (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629027/traditional)
ATL (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612737/)
73
34.8
26.2



















11
Ja Morant (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629630/traditional)
MEM (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612763/)
61
31.9
26.2



















12
Lauri Markkanen (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628374/traditional)
UTA (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612762/)
66
34.4
25.6



















13
Julius Randle (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203944/traditional)
NYK (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612752/)
77
35.5
25.1



















14
De'Aaron Fox (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628368/traditional)
SAC (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612758/)
73
33.4
25.0



















15
Zach LaVine (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203897/traditional)
CHI (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612741/)
77
35.9
24.8



















16
Anthony Edwards (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630162/traditional)
MIN (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612750/)
79
36.0
24.6



















17
DeMar DeRozan (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/201942/traditional)
CHI (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612741/)
74
36.2
24.5



















18
Nikola Jokic (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203999/traditional)
DEN (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612743/)
69
33.7
24.5



















19
Pascal Siakam (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627783/traditional)
TOR (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612761/)
71
37.4
24.2



















20
Jalen Brunson (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628973/traditional)
NYK (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612752/)
68
35.0
24.0



















21
Kristaps Porzingis (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/204001/traditional)
WAS (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612764/)
65
32.6
23.2



















22
Jimmy Butler (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/202710/traditional)
MIA (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612748/)
64
33.4
22.9



















23
Jalen Green (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630224/traditional)
HOU (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612745/)
76
34.2
22.1



















24
Keldon Johnson (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629640/traditional)
SAS (https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612759/)
63
32.7
22.0

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/mikefinger/status/1670917118106148864

[Degoat]

https://twitter.com/mikefinger/status/1670917118106148864

Was just about to post this lol

[spurraider21]

I have to be honest I was Shocked that he played with the big boy club as he was picked as a "Potential" type of guy and those type generally need to be in G League working on things at one year and usually two years
thats the problem of taking a "potential" or "project" type in the first round. they get the guaranteed contract.

[Mr. Body]

Wesley was and is still a good swing at that pick. Look at that round. The Spurs only missed a couple players at most.

Wesley jumped into a pretty bad ND team and had to do nearly everything as a freshman. This included bad shit selection and just trying to get points.

So he came into the league as having bad habits but some promise. I'm not too swayed by advanced metrics. Few players who have as bad numbers are still worked on by their teams. He's still a lot of raw material and most teams don't do that.

[heyheymymy]

I'm sticking with the core we built and so is Wright.

People say the core sucks but then cite a tank season as why and I think that could be a fallacy.

Jones (if re-signed) improved at the end of both of the last 2 seasons. Yes I like trying to bring Jones back, people are underestimating what he brings to the team.

KJ and Vassell are pretty potent players that were just missing a Wemby anchor they now have. Let's see what they do with a winning culture and some #1 overall caliber support.

Guys like Graham Doug, KBD and Mamu (last 2 if re-signed) could play strong roles.

Sochan and Branham hold a ton of promise. Not giving up on Wesley yet either.

I like this core group to start off and then tinker as necessary from there.

[heyheymymy]

People forget the Blake Wesley injury. He missed HALF of the season. Was playing impressively before that.

[heyheymymy]

KJ packed it in around Jan-Feb last season. Look at his efforts before that as a showcase and it becomes hard for any trade to bring at least that back. It's all lateral moves at an insane premium to pay imho. Obvs would look at a deal if another team is just giving away the gold but that's not realistic.

[SpursFan86]

I'm sticking with the core we built and so is Wright.

People say the core sucks but then cite a tank season as why and I think that could be a fallacy.

Jones (if re-signed) improved at the end of both of the last 2 seasons. Yes I like trying to bring Jones back, people are underestimating what he brings to the team.

KJ and Vassell are pretty potent players that were just missing a Wemby anchor they now have. Let's see what they do with a winning culture and some #1 overall caliber support.

Guys like Graham Doug, KBD and Mamu (last 2 if re-signed) could play strong roles.

Sochan and Branham hold a ton of promise. Not giving up on Wesley yet either.

I like this core group to start off and then tinker as necessary from there.

I see where you’re coming from, but also think it’s a little naive to act like a 20 win team is loaded with talent and we were only bad because we were tanking :lol

Our main core guys (KJ/Vassell/Sochan) still have somewhat significant question marks. Branham showed promise but would it really surprise anyone THAT much if he ended up flaming out and not being a serious contributor? I don’t think he will, but just saying it’s not like he had a dominant rookie season and proved without a doubt he’s a big time player. Wesley is a huge question mark. Tre is a solid backup PG but if he’s your starting PG you better have some serious firepower elsewhere.

Not trying to be negative - I really do think our roster has a lot of potential. But the idea that we have all the guys we need and they just need to grow together is probably overly optimistic. That being said I ultimately agree with the idea of seeing how some of these guys play in an environment more conducive to success. Another year of development + fewer injuries + Victor being around could very well do wonders for several players.

[jeebus]

I don't think Wemby putting up 23ppg would be all that surprising next season. 23ppg isn't that big a deal like it was when it was Tim doing it twenty years ago when you could play defense. There were 32 players who put up 23 ppg or more this season vs nine who did it back in 02-03 for example.

I can see him doing that imo tbqhwy. The physicality isn't there in the NBA like it is in Europe, and as long as Vassell/KJ/etc hit their shots to keep defenders honest, it shouldn't be too much a stretch to see him hit that. Only thing stopping him from hitting that are playing restrictions or the inevitable foot injuries fwiw.

[heyheymymy]

I see where you’re coming from, but also think it’s a little naive to act like a 20 win team is loaded with talent and we were only bad because we were tanking :lol

Our main core guys (KJ/Vassell/Sochan) still have somewhat significant question marks. Branham showed promise but would it really surprise anyone THAT much if he ended up flaming out and not being a serious contributor? I don’t think he will, but just saying it’s not like he had a dominant rookie season and proved without a doubt he’s a big time player. Wesley is a huge question mark. Tre is a solid backup PG but if he’s your starting PG you better have some serious firepower elsewhere.

Not trying to be negative - I really do think our roster has a lot of potential. But the idea that we have all the guys we need and they just need to grow together is probably overly optimistic. That being said I ultimately agree with the idea of seeing how some of these guys play in an environment more conducive to success. Another year of development + fewer injuries + Victor being around could very well do wonders for several players.

That's fair and I prob need to be more realistic. I'm not against making moves and trust the FO that if a deal goes down they know what they are doing.

It's a different franchise now too, I could totally see the Spurs being more bold and abandon historical conservative approaches. And SA really could use more support at PG and C imho.

[heyheymymy]

One thing I keep citing is this box score from March, beating the full strength Denver Nuggets. 3 months before the Nuggets won the championship the tanking Spurs beat them 120-128.

I feel like the Nuggets were admittedly in the middle of a rough stretch at that point of the season but what am I missing? DEN full strength, everyone suits out/full mins played, playing for seeding, Jokic hits a triple double, they wanted to win that game and the tank Spurs handled them.

The tank season showed a lot of promise even as the team was deliberately losing games. Just gotta read between the lines a little. Wonder if that's what the FO is looking at too. Wright says it himself, "NO" Spurs are not looking at trading Dev or KJ. Straight from the source, if they thought they were underpowered, I feel like we would see a different outlook there although suppose it could be a ruse/smokescreen.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202303100SAS.html

[heyheymymy]

But isn't "a 20 win team" a fallacy in terms of capabilities since the 20 wins came from in some cases deliberately losing games to ensure the #1 overall pick which the Spurs have since secured?

No one's complaining about getting the #1 pick. No one is complaining about getting Wemby.

How do you get Wemby? Gotta get the #1 pick. How do you get the #1 pick? Gotta lose games. How do you deliberately lose games? Gotta deliberately play like shit. So many games last season where Spurs were playing hot potato with the ball. Where is the line between sucks and scuttle?

Are we still genuinely citing games lost on purpose as a metric for quality assessments? Aren't we genuinely citing what's in some cases deliberate subterfuge? Won't that lead to unsound conclusions?

[Degoat]

One thing I keep citing is this box score from March, beating the full strength Denver Nuggets. 3 months before the Nuggets won the championship the tanking Spurs beat them 120-128.

I feel like the Nuggets were admittedly in the middle of a rough stretch at that point of the season but what am I missing? DEN full strength, everyone suits out/full mins played, playing for seeding, Jokic hits a triple double, they wanted to win that game and the tank Spurs handled them.

The tank season showed a lot of promise even as the team was deliberately losing games. Just gotta read between the lines a little. Wonder if that's what the FO is looking at too. Wright says it himself, "NO" Spurs are not looking at trading Dev or KJ. Straight from the source, if they thought they were underpowered, I feel like we would see a different outlook there although suppose it could be a ruse/smokescreen.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202303100SAS.html

I agree with you! The biggest obstacle will be health and not just wemby but Vassell & Sochan. If the spurs maintain their health next year I think they could be pushing for the playoffs. A few tweaks between adding wemby, anyone else in the draft, internal growth, and maybe one contributor from free agency joining in we could be something.

[DPG21920]

Spurs had no margin for error alongside no real PG and still did well many games. With no margin for error, all the injuries really did them in. If SA best guys didn’t miss significant time, they finish with many more wins and that’s before Wemby and growth/leaps from the guys coming now that they will be in better roles slightly.

Spurs, outside of the defense that is somewhat hard to explain, were much better than the other tanking teams IMVHO

[Mr. Body]

Spurs were competitive early, then Josh Primo happened, some injuries, and suddenly things changed. I still believe devaluing defense was a conscious choice.

This team will suffer from inexperience but they're going to overwhelm teams. I see them listed in practically no playoff expectations but I wouldn't be surprised at all to have a 40 win season. Probably less, but maybe not. Wemby-Sochan-Keldon-Vassell is a legit starting lineup, or more likely Collins instead of Sochan. And depending on how players progress, their bench can be a handful.

[offset formation]

Vic might get 3-4 buckets a game just on dump-offs and dunker-spot stuff. He might get 2-3 on putbacks a game. I might be underestimating.

If Pop is coaching the team, he will. No way Pop lets him develop outside only, when Pop’s schemes should get him 10 easy points per game in the paint and contribute the easiest buckets he can. Establish a reputation inside then, given his range, he becomes unguardable.

[KobesAchilles]

The roster actually worries me bc of how devoid of talent it actually is. The great thing about tanking is that we got Vic. The not so great thing is outside of Vic, our team still sucks

Tre Jones is a back up. If he is going to be our starter next year then you are already doing Vic a disservice. He is a bottom 5 pg if he is a starter and that’s just a fact no matter how much spurs fans “sleep on Tre” or “disrespect” him. The guy is a fine bench player and one I want on the team. But not if he is going to start.

Im worried about Sochan. He is exactly who I wanted us to draft last year. I really wanted him. I love everything about his game. But he can’t shoot. And you can’t start a nonshooting point guard AND a non shooting PF. The shit didn’t work for DRob and it won’t work for Wemby. Sochan is all heart and hustle and toughness. But he is undersized at guarding prominent big men (AD and Jok) and really I don’t know if you can start him next to Wemby if he can’t shoot OR guard opposing C’s. One of these things we need from him if he’s gonna be a starter. But he could also be a key bench guy going forward

KJ is undersized. He has zero clue how to play defense/ it looks like he doesn’t even try on that end bc he’s so stupid as a defender. Watching him “play defense” hurts my eyes and just makes me wonder how he could be so out of position or why is picking up non shooters at the 3 and leaving shooters open. It baffles me how little he knows still about that side of the ball. Offensively he needs to improve his dribbling, his passing, his footwork, his tunnel vision, and his shot selection. But that comes with reps… hopefully. I actually expect him to reign in his offense a bit bc last year was a lot of ok I’m going to drive the ball with zero plan except try to bully my defender.

Vassell has the tools to be a CJ McCollum. He will never be an all star but he will be a damn good player. He has so many tools in his bag. He can finish with either hand, drive left or right, fade and create from any part of the floor, and his 3 looks effortless. I’m very excited about him. I would like for him to come off a lot more screens and run him like the Warriors do Klay bc he takes so many damn tough shots and basically nothing is created for him. That’s a design flaw on Pop

Collins is a decent big man but we need to go hard after Lopez. Sign Lopez and have Collins as the back up big and you really have a team. Heck a CP3, Vassell, Sochan, Wemby, Lopez starting line up with Tre Jones, Blake. KJ, filler or trade with Dallas for that one PF from the Cougars, and Collins is a playoff team.

Everybody else on the roster will need to go and be replaced with vets

[TekXX]

The roster actually worries me bc of how devoid of talent it actually is. The great thing about tanking is that we got Vic. The not so great thing is outside of Vic, our team still sucks

Tre Jones is a back up. If he is going to be our starter next year then you are already doing Vic a disservice. He is a bottom 5 pg if he is a starter and that’s just a fact no matter how much spurs fans “sleep on Tre” or “disrespect” him. The guy is a fine bench player and one I want on the team. But not if he is going to start.

Im worried about Sochan. He is exactly who I wanted us to draft last year. I really wanted him. I love everything about his game. But he can’t shoot. And you can’t start a nonshooting point guard AND a non shooting PF. The shit didn’t work for DRob and it won’t work for Wemby. Sochan is all heart and hustle and toughness. But he is undersized at guarding prominent big men (AD and Jok) and really I don’t know if you can start him next to Wemby if he can’t shoot OR guard opposing C’s. One of these things we need from him if he’s gonna be a starter. But he could also be a key bench guy going forward

KJ is undersized. He has zero clue how to play defense/ it looks like he doesn’t even try on that end bc he’s so stupid as a defender. Watching him “play defense” hurts my eyes and just makes me wonder how he could be so out of position or why is picking up non shooters at the 3 and leaving shooters open. It baffles me how little he knows still about that side of the ball. Offensively he needs to improve his dribbling, his passing, his footwork, his tunnel vision, and his shot selection. But that comes with reps… hopefully. I actually expect him to reign in his offense a bit bc last year was a lot of ok I’m going to drive the ball with zero plan except try to bully my defender.

Vassell has the tools to be a CJ McCollum. He will never be an all star but he will be a damn good player. He has so many tools in his bag. He can finish with either hand, drive left or right, fade and create from any part of the floor, and his 3 looks effortless. I’m very excited about him. I would like for him to come off a lot more screens and run him like the Warriors do Klay bc he takes so many damn tough shots and basically nothing is created for him. That’s a design flaw on Pop

Collins is a decent big man but we need to go hard after Lopez. Sign Lopez and have Collins as the back up big and you really have a team. Heck a CP3, Vassell, Sochan, Wemby, Lopez starting line up with Tre Jones, Blake. KJ, filler or trade with Dallas for that one PF from the Cougars, and Collins is a playoff team.

Everybody else on the roster will need to go and be replaced with vets

I'm with you on this, i don't see a point in running it back with a team we know isn't going to cut it so why waste a season? Still waiting for Wright to do something other than tank and trade away players.

[Mr. Body]

Clearly we need to shoot all the players and collect their insurance payouts.

[scott]

We’ll undoubtedly get a boatload of picks in return for these players who so obviously suck ass. Trade ‘em! ST is a wild place sometimes

[Silverheart80]

1) Start the current best five combination of players. Too early to surrender future 1sts and key players just yet.

My hope is our Opening Night starters are Sochan, Vassell, Keldon, Wembanyama, and Collins. That said, I'm not sure if that's currently our *best five combination*, but I don't think our best five includes a guard that's 6'1". Much more intrigued with Mamu's skillset starting next to Wembanyama, in place of Collins. But unless Collins gets injured, that's not happening. Moving on….

2) Start the season with Sochan and Vassell as tandem 'point forwards'. Build offensive sets with those two high-IQ guys initiating. Why? Because the league is moving toward tall, switchable lineups where elite rosters are able to cut, pass, create, and shoot threes. In the coming years -- short, traditional point guards won't be able to stay on the floor because they'll be defensive liabilities, even if they're great shooters. There will be plenty of those guys in the league. They're not going away. They just won't be starting on contenders. Size is gonna matter more and more to win les. Denver and OKC are leading the way building rosters toward this evolution. Spurs have an excellent chance to match and surpass, but it means biting the bullet and and stop thinking 6'5" and below.

Sochan was already initiating offense as a rookie. Vassell is even better suited to do it. If the tandem works, it creates mismatch opportunities every night. And that's without even talking about the mismatches that Wembanyama creates. Try it. If the team is .500 at the All-Star break, stay with it. Keys will be Sochan's FG% improvement and Vassell staying healthy.

3) Weak link in the lineup is Keldon. I love him. But he's such a deficient defender, and at 6'5", teams will continue to prey upon him. For now, I say stay with him. Maybe he evolves with VW alongside him. Let it play out.

4) Who goes? If Tre gets a massive deal from another team looking to give him a starting job, shake his hand and let him go. Otherwise, he's a solid backup. I'm fine with KBD, Birch, Dieng, McDermott (nice shooter, horrible defender even for a bench guy) and Langford moving on. No need to chase a free agent that steals development time from the young core.

PREDICTIONS:

If the Spurs go with VW plus the current roster AND stay reasonably healthy --

.500 record at the All-Star Break
.700 record thereafter

Spurs finish as top-6 Seed in the West.

VW finishes top-3 in both Steals and Blocks. Wins Rookie of the Year and Defensive Player of the Year.

[Dex]

But isn't "a 20 win team" a fallacy in terms of capabilities since the 20 wins came from in some cases deliberately losing games to ensure the #1 overall pick which the Spurs have since secured?

No one's complaining about getting the #1 pick. No one is complaining about getting Wemby.

How do you get Wemby? Gotta get the #1 pick. How do you get the #1 pick? Gotta lose games. How do you deliberately lose games? Gotta deliberately play like shit. So many games last season where Spurs were playing hot potato with the ball. Where is the line between sucks and scuttle?

Are we still genuinely citing games lost on purpose as a metric for quality assessments? Aren't we genuinely citing what's in some cases deliberate subterfuge? Won't that lead to unsound conclusions?

This is why I am really interested to see this team run it back (obviously with the awesome addition of Wemby)

Yes, the Spurs only won 22 games last season...but I do feel like that was by design, not just because they sucked. Pop was pulling wires and picking holes at every turn to turn winnable games into losses...mixing and matching weird lineups, taking out hot players, sitting guys randomly. Trading guys like Murray and Poeltl.

In those 22 wins, the team showed some really nice flashes when Pop allowed them to run free. It will be interesting to see how much the Spurs actually try to contend this season, but I'd like to see what this group can do when they are actually trying to win games instead of intentionally scheming to lose them.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs had no margin for error alongside no real PG and still did well many games. With no margin for error, all the injuries really did them in. If SA best guys didn’t miss significant time, they finish with many more wins and that’s before Wemby and growth/leaps from the guys coming now that they will be in better roles slightly.

Spurs, outside of the defense that is somewhat hard to explain, were much better than the other tanking teams IMVHO

Spurs easily win 30+ games if they don't sit 2-3 starters in every game

[KobesAchilles]

We’ll undoubtedly get a boatload of picks in return for these players who so obviously suck ass. Trade ‘em! ST is a wild place sometimes
I didn’t trade anybody! I just signed better players and moved the worse ones to the bench. We won 22 games last year. Let’s run it back with the same damn team. That’s what is wild. This isn’t 1998 where we had Elliot and Robinson coming back. We made moves for DRob when he was a rookie. We got TC and Rod. Adding talent to our team isn’t a bad thing

[rankingtear]

Pop stopped playing Tre and Sochan together to end the year, 3 straight games that they are both available. They also alternate rest days. I think Pop intention is to play Sochan at the point and Tre as backup next season, I don't know if this is still the case after Wemby. There was 1 game where we were fully healthy , the lineup is Zollins, Sochan, KJ, Devin and Branham with Tre off the bench. We won that game against DEN.

Pop likely saw Tre as the next Patty someone you can build the bench unit around. Tre + roll big and shooters.

[CorrectCrusader]

Pop stopped playing Tre and Sochan together to end the year, 3 straight games that they are both available. They also alternate rest days. I think Pop intention is to play Sochan at the point and Tre as backup next season, I don't know if this is still the case after Wemby. There was 1 game where we were fully healthy , the lineup is Zollins, Sochan, KJ, Devin and Branham with Tre off the bench. We won that game against DEN.

Pop likely saw Tre as the next Patty someone you can build the bench unit around. Tre + roll big and shooters.

I am so down for point forward Sochan

[MannyIsGod]

I didn’t trade anybody! I just signed better players and moved the worse ones to the bench. We won 22 games last year. Let’s run it back with the same damn team. That’s what is wild. This isn’t 1998 where we had Elliot and Robinson coming back. We made moves for DRob when he was a rookie. We got TC and Rod. Adding talent to our team isn’t a bad thing

I think you're undervaluing our current players and I think you're also discounting that there is going to be substantial improvement from 1) time and 2) playing with Wemby.

Wemby has the potential to have an impact similar to what Shaq did in his first year. I don't think anyone is claiming that this team is a contender in year 1 without substantial changes but I don't think they'll look anything like they did last year.

[Extra Stout]

I think any player whose ceiling is below star level is obviously expendable.

If the Spurs are comfortable with what they have and are just running it back except with Wemby, to me that means they intend to continue building through the draft and covet another lottery pick.

[KobesAchilles]

I think you're undervaluing our current players and I think you're also discounting that there is going to be substantial improvement from 1) time and 2) playing with Wemby.

Wemby has the potential to have an impact similar to what Shaq did in his first year. I don't think anyone is claiming that this team is a contender in year 1 without substantial changes but I don't think they'll look anything like they did last year.
Undervaluing how? Victor or no Victor, Tre is a bottom 5 PG. why would start a subpar player when you have a franchise player (in a completely different position). Do you remember how teams beat DRob led teams? They just triple teamed him and AJ couldn’t hit a shot. Or Vinny or Strickland against GSt. Tre is a very good back up. That’s not me undervaluing him that’s me being realistic.

KJ sucks really really bad on defense. That’s just a fact. His positioning on that end of the floor is atrocious. And he still needs all those things to work on offensively. I’m not saying he can’t improve. But he should be a bench player regardless. Otherwise who is on the bench? Vassell is better. Sochan is higher drafted. Tre is our only PG. Collins plays a role Wemby will not. He has to be a bench player. Brooke Lopez is a better center than Collins. That’s not undervaluing. And CP3 is better than Tre.

Undervalue would be me saying to get rid of all the bums

[Vince Carter's ankle]

And CP3 is better than Tre.
he was
a couple of years ago

[spurraider21]

he was
a couple of years ago
he still is by orders of magnitude

[Vince Carter's ankle]

he still is by orders of magnitude
it's enough to watch 5-7 Suns games, so as not to write such nonsense in the future.
Paul can't consistently drive to the basket and play defense.
also he gets injured at least every season.

[Big Empty]

The roster actually worries me bc of how devoid of talent it actually is. The great thing about tanking is that we got Vic. The not so great thing is outside of Vic, our team still sucks

Tre Jones is a back up. If he is going to be our starter next year then you are already doing Vic a disservice. He is a bottom 5 pg if he is a starter and that’s just a fact no matter how much spurs fans “sleep on Tre” or “disrespect” him. The guy is a fine bench player and one I want on the team. But not if he is going to start.

Im worried about Sochan. He is exactly who I wanted us to draft last year. I really wanted him. I love everything about his game. But he can’t shoot. And you can’t start a nonshooting point guard AND a non shooting PF. The shit didn’t work for DRob and it won’t work for Wemby. Sochan is all heart and hustle and toughness. But he is undersized at guarding prominent big men (AD and Jok) and really I don’t know if you can start him next to Wemby if he can’t shoot OR guard opposing C’s. One of these things we need from him if he’s gonna be a starter. But he could also be a key bench guy going forward

KJ is undersized. He has zero clue how to play defense/ it looks like he doesn’t even try on that end bc he’s so stupid as a defender. Watching him “play defense” hurts my eyes and just makes me wonder how he could be so out of position or why is picking up non shooters at the 3 and leaving shooters open. It baffles me how little he knows still about that side of the ball. Offensively he needs to improve his dribbling, his passing, his footwork, his tunnel vision, and his shot selection. But that comes with reps… hopefully. I actually expect him to reign in his offense a bit bc last year was a lot of ok I’m going to drive the ball with zero plan except try to bully my defender.

Vassell has the tools to be a CJ McCollum. He will never be an all star but he will be a damn good player. He has so many tools in his bag. He can finish with either hand, drive left or right, fade and create from any part of the floor, and his 3 looks effortless. I’m very excited about him. I would like for him to come off a lot more screens and run him like the Warriors do Klay bc he takes so many damn tough shots and basically nothing is created for him. That’s a design flaw on Pop

Collins is a decent big man but we need to go hard after Lopez. Sign Lopez and have Collins as the back up big and you really have a team. Heck a CP3, Vassell, Sochan, Wemby, Lopez starting line up with Tre Jones, Blake. KJ, filler or trade with Dallas for that one PF from the Cougars, and Collins is a playoff team.

Everybody else on the roster will need to go and be replaced with vets100%

[LeBowen]

Good post, KobesAchilles, but I disagree on Sochan.

Obviously as you said Tre will be backup once Spurs get back into the playoff picture, so he won't be starting with Jeremy.
Yeah, Jeremy can't shoot, but that doesn't mean he won't improve.

Before he changed to one-handed FTs, he shot 43% from the line and 18% from deep on 2 attempts.
After the switch, he had 78% from the line and 28% from deep on 2.8 attempts.
Still a horrible percentage from deep, but how many other players don't care about the potential embarrassment of one-handed FTs? We're talking about a guy who's willing to do absolutely anything to improve and I've got no doubts that he will become a servicable shooter in a few years. He just turned 20, give him some time.
And even in worst case scenario, he will be one of the best defenders in the league and a solid playmaking wing. You're talking about him guarding Cs when paired with Wemby, but there won't be many Cs that will be able to stay on the floor against Wemby if he develops as projected.

I agree on KJ, he's a horrible defender which is concerning, because he's athletic enough to at least not be a liability.

I wouldn't say that Vassell will be a McCollum. He's way closer to Middleton for me. A bit shorter, but will still have more than enough size to be a problem for most shooting guards in the league.
This roster needs a star point guard and if we get one, Vassell becomes an even bigger issue because most teams have defensively awful point guards. And then they'll have to match up with Devin.

I'd also love Lopez, too bad he's already 35 so it doesn't really matter if we get him.

I'd wait another year before replacing everyone. Give them all a chance in a season with no blatant tanking or dozens of DNPs.
I think it could easily be a play-in team with a point guard upgrade and Wemby living up to the expectations.

[spurraider21]

i agree that it is very difficult as of now to start sochan alongside another non-shooter. i dont think Tre Jones is really starting caliber anyway, but especially so on a team with sochan. if we move up for bufkin/wallace/hood-schifino, any of those guys are better shooters than Tre, and all of them have defensive upside as they aren't undersized. wallace i could see being an all-defensive team talent pretty early in his career.

i also have really warmed up to the idea of spending that FA money on Reaves

[ismael-robert]

Nobody has a clue. They'll do something Nobody predicted

[BillMc]

Spurs easily win 30+ games if they don't sit 2-3 starters in every game

This. Easily

[Joseph Kony]

I'm all for riding into the season with whoever the Spurs nab in the draft and minimal roster changes aside from cutting the fat and seeing how things go. as others have said this team needs to actually get some time on the court together and see how they gel. i would guess we barely had our full team available much at all last season, so this season should give us a more realistic idea of what we have and what we need. Keldon sliding back into not being the focal point of the offense will do him wonders and Vassell looks ready to take the next step, health permitting. Along with Sochan, we could already have the core we need, we just need to actually see them play and figure out their roles around Wemby

[scott]

I didn’t trade anybody! I just signed better players and moved the worse ones to the bench. We won 22 games last year. Let’s run it back with the same damn team. That’s what is wild. This isn’t 1998 where we had Elliot and Robinson coming back. We made moves for DRob when he was a rookie. We got TC and Rod. Adding talent to our team isn’t a bad thing

My bad, I wasn’t really referring to you.

You aren’t wrong - but I don’t think you can do it in a day. I think the best way of thinking about it - for me - is that the current core is the core until someone better comes along. That could be in FA, trade, or draft. But certainly some of these guys will cycle out, maybe one or two step up to stay in the core, and new faces will emerge.

[scott]

We’ve all assumed that one of KJ or Sochan need to go to the bench… but hear me out… what about both?

Starting 5:

New PG (Reeves?)
Bran
Dev
Wemby
Collins

2nd Unit:

Tre
SG TBD (Devonte?)
KJ
Sochan
Bassey

You can mask Bran’s defensive limitations in the starting unit, and Sochan/Bassey help cover up Keldon’s. I worry about a lineup that features both Bran and Keldon, defensively.

[TD 21]

State Of The Spurs (spurstalk.com) (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301764)


Pop stopped playing Tre and Sochan together to end the year, 3 straight games that they are both available. They also alternate rest days. I think Pop intention is to play Sochan at the point and Tre as backup next season, I don't know if this is still the case after Wemby. There was 1 game where we were fully healthy , the lineup is Zollins, Sochan, KJ, Devin and Branham with Tre off the bench. We won that game against DEN.

Pop likely saw Tre as the next Patty someone you can build the bench unit around. Tre + roll big and shooters.

I've thought of that game too, but this time the lineup would feature basically zero guards.

That lineup would likely get pressed/trapped into oblivion full court and deep dropped (p-n-r) to death in the half court, with only Vassell somewhat able to make defenses pay, but with poor spacing around him.

If they don't start Sochan though, they're back to no big wing/forward defender in the starting lineup.

[rankingtear]

State Of The Spurs (spurstalk.com) (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301764)



I've thought of that game too, but this time the lineup would feature basically zero guards.

That lineup would likely get pressed/trapped into oblivion full court and deep dropped (p-n-r) to death in the half court, with only Vassell somewhat able to make defenses pay, but with poor spacing around him.

If they don't start Sochan though, they're back to no big wing/forward defender in the starting lineup.

We might have 2 combination of Branham - Sochan and Tre - Johnson, with the last 2 spots on the SL. I think it depends on if Wemby is more of a wing on offense like what he showed in the ignite exhibition game or more a 4/5 he looked in france. Spacing, rules and pace is different, he would score more easily probably be an average 3 point shooter.

There is also on off chance chance that Sochan develops a wicked mid range pull up this offseason and be a true lead guard prospect and that lineup would work.

[Dejounte]

There was a time Keldon was a “non-shooter”. Sochan isn’t going to the bench, tbh. The Spurs usually “ride the wave” with their prospects until there’s signs of decline. To demote him when there isn’t any sign of decline would be opposite of what the Spurs do, especially since they assign more accountability and leadership towards their higher draft selections.

Sochan will “magically” look like a shooter by mid-season, maybe sooner. Did people forget the story of the season with Sochan? He was a rapid learner, probably the quickest one anyone had seen in a decade.

[TD 21]

It never ceases to amaze me how this fanbase of all of them, automatically equate going to the bench with a "demotion".

[Dejounte]

It never ceases to amaze me how this fanbase of all of them, automatically equate going to the bench with a "demotion".

I mean, we can’t pretend we know what goes in these player’s heads aside from the things they say or do. An average basketball player would feel like it’s a demotion. Is that even debatable? Like, to the fan it’s obvious we know the history of the Spurs and the one and great Manu. But are we assuming that these players share that fandom, too? It ceases to amaze me too that this isn’t common sense.

[Mr. Body]

I mean, we can’t pretend we know what goes in these player’s heads aside from the things they say or do. An average basketball player would feel like it’s a demotion. Is that even debatable? Like, to the fan it’s obvious we know the history of the Spurs and the one and great Manu. But are we assuming that these players share that fandom, too? It ceases to amaze me too that this isn’t common sense.

Agree. Just because we had one of the only stars in history that was proud and happy to come off the bench doesn't mean this is easy to do.

[wildbill2u]

Spurs had no margin for error alongside no real PG and still did well many games. With no margin for error, all the injuries really did them in. If SA best guys didn’t miss significant time, they finish with many more wins and that’s before Wemby and growth/leaps from the guys coming now that they will be in better roles slightly.

Spurs, outside of the defense that is somewhat hard to explain, were much better than the other tanking teams IMVHO

Try looking at last year from DPG21920's angle above. Did the Spurs really try to lose games last year?. I saw almost every game and it looked like our outmatched players were trying to win some close games in the 4th quarter rather than just giving up--and Pop looked like he was interested and doing some serious coaching to win at the end of those games. He didn't just sub in the worst players off the bench and wave the white flag--- if he thought the youngsters could learn something by playing hard in the 4th. That is very different from the classical "tanking" attitude and deliberately losing tactics IMHO>

The fact that they came up short in most games doesn't obviate the fact that they were probably trying their best and it just wasn't good enough against more experienced and talented teams. As a result, I think we came out of the season with our players maintaining a better attitude and with some hard-won experience about what it takes to win in the 4th quarter. They didn't have to hang their heads or curse the coaches for not letting them try to win. IT was a losing season but had some positive aspects beyond just getting a great draft position and pick.

[exstatic]

Try looking at last year from DPG21920's angle above. Did the Spurs really try to lose games last year?. I saw almost every game and it looked like our outmatched players were trying to win some close games in the 4th quarter rather than just giving up--and Pop looked like he was interested and doing some serious coaching to win at the end of those games. He didn't just sub in the worst players off the bench and wave the white flag--- if he thought the youngsters could learn something by playing hard in the 4th. That is very different from the classical "tanking" attitude and deliberately losing tactics IMHO>

The fact that they came up short in most games doesn't obviate the fact that they were probably trying their best and it just wasn't good enough against more experienced and talented teams. As a result, I think we came out of the season with our players maintaining a better attitude and with some hard-won experience about what it takes to win in the 4th quarter. They didn't have to hang their heads or curse the coaches for not letting them try to win. IT was a losing season but had some positive aspects beyond just getting a great draft position and pick.

Absolutely. The players tried, but the rotations were whack, and Pop didn't seem to hold anyone accountable for defense. The players weren't trying to lose, but Pop was sabotaging it. Was pretty clear after New Years.

[wildbill2u]

Three players lead the list of gone forever: Dieng, Langford, Birch. (I think Dieng may be offered a coaching job.)

Coaches seem to like KBD so he will probably stay around despite problems with consistency. If a team wanted him as part of a trade deal, I'm OK with that. At age 27 he isn't likely to make much progress in his skillset. And with Wemby at PF, along with Sochan and maybe Barlow as a developing prospect, he could be the odd man out. On the other hand, he seems to be ok with bench role and is a decent locker room presence. Meh.

I don't see the necessity for waiving or trading more than 4 players out of the current roster. The biggest likelihood is is that we bring in Wemby and maybe a Guard or Wing. Whether they will immediately move in and improve the team has yet to be seen, but the possibilities in the draft are always exciting at this time of year. Especially if a trade would bring us a second super pick to go with Wemby.

[RC_Drunkford]

if Sochan or Keldon don't like coming off the bench, are they culture fits?

[KobesAchilles]

Well somebody has to come off the bench. You can’t start 6 players. Tre is our only PG so he is starting. Vassell is our best shooter so he is starting. Wemby is the #1 pick so he is starting. Collins is playing center so he is starting. And Sochan is the #9 pick in the draft so he is starting

That leaves KJ as a bench player. Just by default. And if he has a problem with it then fuck him tbh. Tbh I think if we start Tre as PG we aren’t making the playoffs. The dude should NOT be a starter. I don’t understand Spurstalk fascination with purposefully starting a bottom 5 PG. makes zero sense to me.

[Mr. Body]

No, Sochan comes off the bench. Keldon's shooting is needed on the first unit. He'll play off Wembanyama better than off the bench. Maximize both KJ and Sochan that way.

[TD 21]

I mean, we can’t pretend we know what goes in these player’s heads aside from the things they say or do. An average basketball player would feel like it’s a demotion. Is that even debatable? Like, to the fan it’s obvious we know the history of the Spurs and the one and great Manu. But are we assuming that these players share that fandom, too? It ceases to amaze me too that this isn’t common sense.

That's not what you said though. If they suspect it'll be a shock to the system, it's not difficult to have a conversation beforehand and explain the reasoning. It wouldn't be permanent and his role wouldn't change much in the interim either way.

[RC_Drunkford]

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