Spurs Looking To Build New Stadium Downtown

[CGD]

Downtown (besides where the Riley's Believe it Or Not walkway) was pretty dead. Closed up shops. A stadium would do wonders.

Yup, was there for a conference 3 years ago and was saddened at how dead downtown had gotten. I suppose it’s all migrating the Pearl area?

[ambchang]

North American (and to an extent Australian) cities were built with the automobile in mind, it’s not a surprise as they were growing during the auto age. Most older world cities were built when the main form of transportation were horses, carts, bicycles or legs. Most North American cities have enormous sprawls and having a subway system with a decentralized population is not efficient or cost effective. Unless Americans are willing to give up (or more likely can no longer afford) 2500 two car garage houses and willing to move into condos and other high density housing, a subway system just doesn’t make any financial sense.

[CGD]

North American (and to an extent Australian) cities were built with the automobile in mind, it’s not a surprise as they were growing during the auto age. Most older world cities were built when the main form of transportation were horses, carts, bicycles or legs. Most North American cities have enormous sprawls and having a subway system with a decentralized population is not efficient or cost effective. Unless Americans are willing to give up (or more likely can no longer afford) 2500 two car garage houses and willing to move into condos and other high density housing, a subway system just doesn’t make any financial sense.

Yup and the success of remote work makes it even more challenging for proponents of public transit in the US. For example, the metro in the DC area (one of the best subway systems we have in the country) is struggling financially because the majority of Fed workers are still on hybrid schedules. Ridership is just not the same anymore.

[offset formation]

We need a lift type system that is relatively cheap compared to subways or trains and it'd fit into and around existing infrastructure. It'd scale out to suburban areas much easier.

It's the only salvation for urban sprawl cities common in the South and West.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/madisoniszler/status/1851394401437663289

[ChumpDumper]

:lol I can see maybe trying to preserve the courthouse but the ITC building is straight garbage. Besides, you can get all the brutalism you could stand at the original UTSA campus.

[CGD]

https://x.com/madisoniszler/status/1851394401437663289

Dirty— it’s either the “Spurs to Austin” lobby, the NIMBYs, or “not a dime from us” crew.

[scott]

As to who-done-it:

https://sanantonioreport.org/san-antonio-institute-texan-cultures-utsa-historic-designation/


A Texas Historical Commission panel ruled Saturday that the Institute of Texan Cultures is eligible to be listed on the National Register of Historic Places.The Conservation Society of San Antonio filed the application (https://sanantonioreport.org/conservation-society-san-antonio-historic-designation-institute-of-texan-cultures/) in 2022 to include the Institute of Texas Cultures (ITC) on the National Register. UTSA, the Institute’s owner, opposed the request.

Apparently this was approved back in January though

[Das Texan]

:lol I can see maybe trying to preserve the courthouse but the ITC building is straight garbage. Besides, you can get all the brutalism you could stand at the original UTSA campus.

its stupid shit like this that has caused so many buildings in downtown to be vacant for decades.

There is maintaining history and there is letting that get in the fucking way of literally anything.

Both of these buildings need to be fucking torn down for similar reasons. They are mold infested dumps that are way too costly to remodel and are really part of history we dont need to remember from a design ideal.

[Russ]

I think Victoria Courts was also ruled out for civic reasons last time -- which caused the Spurs to end up at the AT&T site.

[manufan10]

"Reports indicate that San Antonio is gearing up for a sports and entertainment revolution. City leaders are unveiling ambitious plans for a $4 billion project dubbed "Project Marvel” — which would include a new arena for the San Antonio Spurs this week."

https://www.news4sanantonio.com/news/local/city-set-to-unveil-plans-to-revamp-san-antonio-with-new-spurs-arena-and-entertainment-hub-project-marvel-hemifair-alamodome-convention-center

[Russ]

"Reports indicate that San Antonio is gearing up for a sports and entertainment revolution. City leaders are unveiling ambitious plans for a $4 billion project dubbed "Project Marvel” — which would include a new arena for the San Antonio Spurs this week."

https://www.news4sanantonio.com/news/local/city-set-to-unveil-plans-to-revamp-san-antonio-with-new-spurs-arena-and-entertainment-hub-project-marvel-hemifair-alamodome-convention-center


Dusty lives! (I think.)

[djohn2oo8]

"Reports indicate that San Antonio is gearing up for a sports and entertainment revolution. City leaders are unveiling ambitious plans for a $4 billion project dubbed "Project Marvel” — which would include a new arena for the San Antonio Spurs this week."

https://www.news4sanantonio.com/news/local/city-set-to-unveil-plans-to-revamp-san-antonio-with-new-spurs-arena-and-entertainment-hub-project-marvel-hemifair-alamodome-convention-center

Been a while since I lived in SA. Any chance this actually happens?

[Dejounte]

The wemby effect

[DPG21920]

Been a while since I lived in SA. Any chance this actually happens?

I would imagine its pretty damn likely

[CGD]

Long overdue. Smart to make it part of the broader revitalization too to blunt some of the anti-public funding crowd attacks.

[exstatic]

Long overdue. Smart to make it part of the broader revitalization too to blunt some of the anti-public funding crowd attacks.

As long as the ‘public’ are out of towners who pay through hotel/rental car taxes, I’m down.

[MarCowMar]

So, yer be wanting me to put down me gun 'un me bible--both of which ye chastened me so nastily for appreciatin'-- in order fer me to get out me wallet and pay fer yer new spertball stadium?

And sayin' I do pay for yer spertball stadium, do I get a free seat?

Come now! no free seat? Well what about free perkin? Surely a person wut has paid for the concrete and wood ye practice on, can be spared a dedicated spert to perk?

No perkin?! Well the least you could do is offer me a discount on the dogs or the sudz?

Yer tells me the dogs and the sudz are some of the only honest profits of this sadistic, Masonic endeavor?

Blast, Yankee at least give this foul construction a Christian name representative of the sacrifice the taxpayer's made for its creation, and lest God not be angered that we have dedicated such a gross sum of money to a secular spectacle. What do ye plan on naming this abomination? Perhaps Grace Court Arena?

The Pornhub Trafficking Hub?? There is no hope fer yer lot.

[lefty]

Been a while since I lived in SA. Any chance this actually happens?

Yea
They need to to accommodate those fatties

[SouthernFried]

This is what Greed and Corruption looks like.

Pretty much the definition.

[Pauleta14]

This is what Greed and Corruption looks like.

Pretty much the definition.

That's how the US were built tho. It makes sense

[Bill_Brasky]

This is what Greed and Corruption looks like.

Pretty much the definition.

Oh, THIS is where we're drawing the line. Right.

[SouthernFried]

That's how the US were built tho. It makes sense

No. This was not how the US was built. The Corruption in govt was built this way. And it's been the same way for all of human history. Govts are corrupt, almost by definition.

"The natural order is for govt to continually increase is power, at the expense of individual liberty." - Thomas Jefferson. The same sentiment as been issued by many others, Woodrow Wilson, Reagan, etc. The US Constitution was written with one purpose and one purpose only. To limit the US Govt. Every amendment puts limitations on the Govt. Not on the people.

We have become corrupt, because we have basically thrown away most of the Constitution. It's why they don't teach it anymore. Most people only know 1 or 2 amendments, if that. For a reason. The most important document in American history, and arguably the world. And Most Americans have no clue what it says. Hell, most teachers have no clue either.

Therein lies the problem....

[SouthernFried]

Oh, THIS is where we're drawing the line. Right.

Nobody said, or inferred that. It's just another boondoggle amongst many, going back decades.

[SouthernFried]

The Spurs simply don't deserve another stadium.

Not that that has any bearing on the matter...

[ChumpDumper]

No. This was not how the US was built. The Corruption in govt was built this way. And it's been the same way for all of human history. Govts are corrupt, almost by definition.

"The natural order is for govt to continually increase is power, at the expense of individual liberty." - Thomas Jefferson. The same sentiment as been issued by many others, Woodrow Wilson, Reagan, etc. The US Constitution was written with one purpose and one purpose only. To limit the US Govt. Every amendment puts limitations on the Govt. Not on the people.

We have become corrupt, because we have basically thrown away most of the Constitution. It's why they don't teach it anymore. Most people only know 1 or 2 amendments, if that. For a reason. The most important document in American history, and arguably the world. And Most Americans have no clue what it says. Hell, most teachers have no clue either.

Therein lies the problem....


Nobody said, or inferred that. It's just another boondoggle amongst many, going back decades.


The Spurs simply don't deserve another stadium.

Not that that has any bearing on the matter...

:lol

[ace3g]

https://media.kens5.com/assets/KENS/images/c60211e9-a07a-4a8b-96bf-2a9809da38e5/20241121T150711/c60211e9-a07a-4a8b-96bf-2a9809da38e5_1920x1080.jpg


City of San Antonio reveals early concepts of ‘transformational’ downtown sports and entertainment district | kens5.com (https://www.kens5.com/article/money/economy/sports-entertainment-district-spurs-san-antonio-project-marvel-arena/273-cca6638e-ab6f-46df-9616-cfc6d858c049?tag1=kensshare&fbclid=IwY2xjawGsQ1pleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHTxdTGfYm560F VArm_Kn4SPf5xi4CU-c91N_np3T6BJS1BIUwQL_WhdKwQ_aem_KKSwv3RLFu-qIpqP8a1Alg)

[rjv]

anti-tax dipshits with no vision will do everything they can to keep SA in the dark ages.

[lefty]

This is fucking ugly

[rjv]

This is fucking ugly

it's a conceptual rendering, not the actual architectural design.

[MannyIsGod]

The idea of covering 37 with park space is A+. Would not be cheap but that is an excellent plan.

[DPG21920]

Inject it into my veins! SA is growing and booming. The city has momentum and life. If you spend anytime near pearl, Southtown, Hemisphere, downtown, King William you can see it and feel it.

Can’t wait to walk the river walk to games and post games and enjoy the hell more than I already do out of living in SA and seeing the Spurs.

[NASpurs]

I'm happy the city is modernizing a bit. It felt like we were stuck in the early 90s for like 30 years there. It's good to see downtown becoming a place even locals want to visit. Before, you could've spent five years in between downtown visits.

[lefty]

it's a conceptual rendering, not the actual architectural design.

i know

[NASpurs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw2J4925yso https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/chrome-extension://hkegehhbmbongohpgmdadkbkmnfokicn/img/icon128.png

[NASpurs]

Watching the video that I just posted from the beginning, seems like the Holts and the Spurs (RC name dropped) are heavily involved to the surprise of no one but still good.

[rjv]

i know

so, you find a concept 'ugly'?

[scott]

Did the previous Hemisfair redevelopment get completely scrapped? I got pitched on a part of that project back in like 2017-18 and it looked promising, though this looks like a much better use of the space. Love that they are investing in the Alamodome too to keep it relevant... but is that just for UTSA, NCAA and other large events? Surely folks have given up on the NFL pipe dream by now... isn't the new Missions stadium supposed to be in this area as well?

I don't live in San Antonio anymore, and have little occasion to go back, but this would draw me to a trip back home for some games.

[rjv]

Did the previous Hemisfair redevelopment get completely scrapped? I got pitched on a part of that project back in like 2017-18 and it looked promising, though this looks like a much better use of the space. Love that they are investing in the Alamodome too to keep it relevant... but is that just for UTSA, NCAA and other large events? Surely folks have given up on the NFL pipe dream by now... isn't the new Missions stadium supposed to be in this area as well?

I don't live in San Antonio anymore, and have little occasion to go back, but this would draw me to a trip back home for some games.

SA Missions park would be in a different part of downtown. I would think that the Alamadome would be to stick with UTSA, host NCAA football playoff games or national title games, and to keep Austin from stealing the NCAA basketball venues from us. but, if an NFL team ever did become a possibility, the venue could already be in place.

[scott]

If there is hopes of ever luring another pro sports team (and a revitalization like this could spur the kind of economic development necessary to catapult San Antonio into the kind of city that can realistically attract another pro team, not like the fantasy-land proposals of yesteryear), I personally think there is more opportunity in MLB than the NFL. If you're going to be doing major work on the Alamodome, might be worth making the necessary adaptations to have it be MLB-ready (depending on the incremental cost, of course)

[jeebus]

lmao what a joke, especially the alamodome bit. that money pit needs to be nuked from orbit.

[Mugen]

When would it open? Might have to visit you fatsos at some point tbh :lol

[TXstbobcat]

When would it open? Might have to visit you fatsos at some point tbh :lol

per the presentation to city council looks like the spurs arena would be done in the next 5 years.

they Said they can’t start working on the Alamodome improvements until after the women’s ncaa final four scheduled there in 2029.

[ChumpDumper]

The idea of covering 37 with park space is A+. Would not be cheap but that is an excellent plan.

Yeah, that's pretty exciting getting that open space that connects to the east side. Austin is considering those kinds of caps over I-35 downtown and I hope they don't get cold feet on them.

Did the previous Hemisfair redevelopment get completely scrapped? I got pitched on a part of that project back in like 2017-18 and it looked promising, though this looks like a much better use of the space. Love that they are investing in the Alamodome too to keep it relevant... but is that just for UTSA, NCAA and other large events? Surely folks have given up on the NFL pipe dream by now... isn't the new Missions stadium supposed to be in this area as well?

I don't live in San Antonio anymore, and have little occasion to go back, but this would draw me to a trip back home for some games.
Yeah, I think they rightly concluded that the dome is losing men's Final Four bids in no small part because the exterior shots look dumb. A funky fresh facade and moar luxury suites could get the dome back in the rotation.

I doubt there are any NFL aspirations. If that ever happened, that would probably be some Hays or Comal County boondoggle SA doesn't need to be a part of.

The Missions stadium will be somewhere else downtown further west or south -- maybe Fox Tech.

[scott]

Yeah, that's pretty exciting getting that open space that connects to the east side. Austin is considering those kinds of caps over I-35 downtown and I hope they don't get cold feet on them.

Yeah, I think they rightly concluded that the dome is losing men's Final Four bids in no small part because the exterior shots look dumb. A funky fresh facade and moar luxury suites could get the dome back in the rotation.

I doubt there are any NFL aspirations. If that ever happened, that would probably be some Hays or Comal County boondoggle SA doesn't need to be a part of.

The Missions stadium will be somewhere else downtown further west or south -- maybe Fox Tech.

Too bad they can't get the Missions in the same "Sports and Entertainment Complex" - that would be cool

[The Truth #6]

I like tearing down the ITC for a potential Spurs arena. The ITC has been mismanaged for decades, misallocating emergency funds that were supposed to keep the building safe, afaik.

Personally, I'd rather have the Missions play downtown somehow than rebuild the Alamodome, though I understand that will upset fans of Roadrunner football and Judas Priest/Def Leppard reunion concerts.

As for anti-tax arguments, I'm not opposed to public funding but it should include public ownership. Unfortunately, the city council would have to push for that and almost zero chance of that if I had to guess.

[MannyIsGod]

If there is hopes of ever luring another pro sports team (and a revitalization like this could spur the kind of economic development necessary to catapult San Antonio into the kind of city that can realistically attract another pro team, not like the fantasy-land proposals of yesteryear), I personally think there is more opportunity in MLB than the NFL. If you're going to be doing major work on the Alamodome, might be worth making the necessary adaptations to have it be MLB-ready (depending on the incremental cost, of course)

Even without a pro team, just having more sports and events downtown is good for a quality of life perspective. SA should have their NASL team play down there. After living in DC and spending a lot of time in NY I hope I never have to live in a super spread out city again.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, that's pretty exciting getting that open space that connects to the east side. Austin is considering those kinds of caps over I-35 downtown and I hope they don't get cold feet on them.



There have been federal programs aimed at this kind of a project during the recent admin but who knows if they will survive or continue.

https://www.transportation.gov/reconnecting

It makes a lot of sense in a place like SA where that highway is a huge barrier to connecting the neighborhood and the city. A project like this would open up a lot more space to development because of how much it would increase the accessibility.

I'm really happy SA leaders are thinking about projects like this. It increases greenspace and makes a lot of environmental AND economic sense.

[heyheymymy]

that render looks slick

I like the walkover park that covers the freeway there

[scott]

There have been federal programs aimed at this kind of a project during the recent admin but who knows if they will survive or continue.

https://www.transportation.gov/reconnecting

It makes a lot of sense in a place like SA where that highway is a huge barrier to connecting the neighborhood and the city. A project like this would open up a lot more space to development because of how much it would increase the accessibility.

I'm really happy SA leaders are thinking about projects like this. It increases greenspace and makes a lot of environmental AND economic sense.

I guess a good thing is that San Antonio already has experience with a project of this exact nature, though on a smaller scale, with the Hardberger Park Land Bridge. I left before it was completely though so I'm not sure how residents feel about it and whether or not they're ready to embrace it at a larger scale. It's cool stuff though.

[ChumpDumper]

There have been federal programs aimed at this kind of a project during the recent admin but who knows if they will survive or continue.

https://www.transportation.gov/reconnecting

It makes a lot of sense in a place like SA where that highway is a huge barrier to connecting the neighborhood and the city. A project like this would open up a lot more space to development because of how much it would increase the accessibility.

I'm really happy SA leaders are thinking about projects like this. It increases greenspace and makes a lot of environmental AND economic sense.

Yeah, I think the city got some federal money for the initial planning but will be on the hook for construction. My guess is they ask for 8 of them and settle for the 4 closest to the river. UT is also going to make some of their own for access to place like the baseball/softball complex.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO8__xPLSh0

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqGK9eAfpNE

[Bruno]

It looks like a nice project. Lot of green space around the arena and covering up the highway is great.

They won't modify Alamodome until 2029 and the NCAA Women Final 4 that will happen there. It gives a lot of time to do something else than what is actually planed. I guess what interest Spurs/the City the most right now about the Alamodome is its big parking lots.

It will for sure going to be a challenge to find an use for the Frost bank Center. From what I've heard, they don't have a plan with it for the moment.

[scott]

It will for sure going to be a challenge to find an use for the Frost bank Center. From what I've heard, they don't have a plan with it for the moment.

HEB Distribution Center tbh

[ace3g]

https://x.com/Matthew_Tynan/status/1908241909665194143

[benefactor]

So someone tell me again where the stadium is going to go? Are they going to tear down the alamodome?

[rjv]

SA conservation society is filing a lawsuit to save that awful tribute to 1970's brutalist architecture otherwise known as the institute of texan cultures.

[SpurSpike]

So someone tell me again where the stadium is going to go? Are they going to tear down the alamodome?

Across the highway from the Alamodome where the Texas Cultures building is.

https://i0.wp.com/sanantonioreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/nickwagner-utsa-property-institute-texan-cultures-16JUL22-5.jpg?fit=2560%2C1798&ssl=1

https://i0.wp.com/sanantonioreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Screenshot-2024-11-21-at-12.27.58%E2%80%AFAM.png?fit=1200%2C675&ssl=1

[BatManu20]

Yea the plan is to tear down The UTSA Institute of Texan Cultures (ITC) and eventually relocate it up near UTSA's campus I believe. From what I read, they're temporarily moving it to the Frost Bank Tower later this year so they can began to tear down the ITC building and will begin building it's new home up by the campus.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I hope they really do put the stadium by the tower of Americas. That shit is like a 15 minute walk from the river walk!!

[CGD]

I hope they really do put the stadium by the tower of Americas. That shit is like a 15 minute walk from the river walk!!

It would be a game changer for downtown, and the local economy. Perfect location honestly.

[SpursGenius]

Need to do it. Hopefully they do it private public combo so it gets done quicker.

[ChumpDumper]

It won't be the same as the "good ol' days" but youngsters need to know the joy of hanging out downtown before and after the game to which you walk.

[CGD]

It won't be the same as the "good ol' days" but youngsters need to know the joy of hanging out downtown before and after the game to which you walk.

Without a doubt! Those were great times. It’s how most fun cities do it.

[DPG21920]

It won't be the same as the "good ol' days" but youngsters need to know the joy of hanging out downtown before and after the game to which you walk.

Exactly. Especially with Pearl already doing great you now have all of Riverwalk ready for this.

[BatManu20]

And so it begins.

1909725786740797773

[BatManu20]

I just walked by the ITC this weekend too on my way to Hemisphere Park for the March Madness festivities and decided to snap a pic cause I knew it wasn't going tp be up much longer. Didn't realize that would be in a couple days lol. Wild. But glad it's happening tbh. Let's get this arena built and the Spurs in Playoff contention and watch us cook.

1909956044479955277

[LeBowen]

What's the ETA for the new arena?
Could it be done and ready for let's say 2028-29 season?

Spurs won in their inaugural season at current arena, would be nice to keep the tradition going.

[BatManu20]

What's the ETA for the new arena?
Could it be done and ready for let's say 2028-29 season?

Spurs won in their inaugural season at current arena, would be nice to keep the tradition going.

There isn't a set one yet from what I've read. Initial reports were that Project Marvel would be a 4-8 year project depending on different variables so I imagine somewhere along those lines, but the Spurs are under lease with Frost Bank Arena through the 2031-32 season. They can always buy out of that contract early for a pretty penny of course though. Time will tell. Hopefully we'll know more in the near future. Just glad it's actually happening tbh. A downtown arena will be so much better than being stuck over there on the west side in the middle of nothing.

[scott]

I just walked by the ITC this weekend too on my way to Hemisphere Park for the March Madness festivities and decided to snap a pic cause I knew it wasn't going tp be up much longer. Didn't realize that would be in a couple days lol. Wild. But glad it's happening tbh. Let's get this arena built and the Spurs in Playoff contention and watch us cook.

1909956044479955277

We'll always have the memories of sliding down that hill on a cardboard box during Folklife Festival.

RIP, you ugly piece of brutalist shit.

[rjv]

There isn't a set one yet from what I've read. Initial reports were that Project Marvel would be a 4-8 year project depending on different variables so I imagine somewhere along those lines, but the Spurs are under lease with Frost Bank Arena through the 2031-32 season. They can always buy out of that contract early for a pretty penny of course though. Time will tell. Hopefully we'll know more in the near future. Just glad it's actually happening tbh. A downtown arena will be so much better than being stuck over there on the west side in the middle of nothing.


The agreement between the spurs, the city ,and the county to all work together with Project Marvel, and come up with a vision for the Frost Bank Center, suggests that the lease can be modified and I think that is why that agreement was such a big deal. I think the next big step is getting a bond put together that would be place on the ballot. This will determine any time frame. But I think the Spurs and the city both would love to have an arena up before 2030.

[manufan10]

1920482718489432571

[BatManu20]

1923064305521496190

[bigfan]

Still remember coming out of Hemisfair after another Spurs victory and walking across the street to that bar on the river level of the first Marriott, those were great times. I believe if you bought the plastic mug at the bar your first mug of frozen margaritas were free forever. The Spurs need to play downtown.

[CGD]

1923064305521496190

The Dylan Harper effect

[SpursGenius]

They better just force this through. Need it for final four too. Just make alamodome multipurpose for baseball too incase Vegas deal falls apart for A's

[Robz4000]

Spurs arena will be built tbh, just the rest of Project Marvel that's up in the air. Hope it happens but the city of SA can't be expected to pay $2B+ for it.

[BackHome]

If you build it they will come

[Seventyniner]

If you build it they will come

Our corn fields have crop circles in them.

[BatManu20]

1932596206229713087

[Ice009]

I thought they weren't going to ask for public money?

[goliath]

My understanding is that it’s not for the “arena” or for “Project Marvel” proper. It’s for improvements in the roads and infrastructure around the project

[BatManu20]

1933197769214218647

[ChumpDumper]

I thought they weren't going to ask for public money?

lol they always were going to ask for public money and never acted like they wouldn't. The money being discussed here is from the existing venue taxes being paid by people renting cars and hotel rooms. The county just raised the latter to its maximum 2%.

[Ice009]

lol they always were going to ask for public money and never acted like they wouldn't. The money being discussed here is from the existing venue taxes being paid by people renting cars and hotel rooms. The county just raised the latter to its maximum 2%.

Oh OK, got it thanks. I think that is what I was confused by. I think I read that previously about the car rental and hotel rooms. I thought they weren't going to do that either as someone mentioned people in SA aren't all Spurs/NBA fans and they don't all agree about the car rental and hotel room taxes.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyCq7PIUPQQ

[ChumpDumper]

Oh OK, got it thanks. I think that is what I was confused by. I think I read that previously about the car rental and hotel rooms. I thought they weren't going to do that either as someone mentioned people in SA aren't all Spurs/NBA fans and they don't all agree about the car rental and hotel room taxes.
They'd probably have to elect a whole new county commission. I think the last vote had all but one in favor and that one just opposed the increase, not the tax itself.

[exstatic]

Oh OK, got it thanks. I think that is what I was confused by. I think I read that previously about the car rental and hotel rooms. I thought they weren't going to do that either as someone mentioned people in SA aren't all Spurs/NBA fans and they don't all agree about the car rental and hotel room taxes.

That tax is paid almost exclusively by out of towners, and some of the rental cars not for tourists are rented locally by auto insurance companies. It’s the reason the tax passed in the first place. Let the tourists pay for the arena.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/News4SA/status/1948733868527251796

[bigfan]

Make it happen. I remember when the Dallas Mayor and County Judge kept screwing around with Jerrah and he told them to pound sand and built JerryWorld in Arlington instead. The Spurs need to be downtown like when it was at Hemisfair and connecting it with the underused Alamodome is an excellent idea to kick some life in that place as well. You only get one shot at these things folks.

[thOOdee]

Make it happen. I remember when the Dallas Mayor and County Judge kept screwing around with Jerrah and he told them to pound sand and built JerryWorld in Arlington instead. The Spurs need to be downtown like when it was at Hemisfair and connecting it with the underused Alamodome is an excellent idea to kick some life in that place as well. You only get one shot at these things folks.

agreed, if not I wouldn't be surprised if heavy consideration was given for some place closer to austin as another option.

[exstatic]

Make it happen. I remember when the Dallas Mayor and County Judge kept screwing around with Jerrah and he told them to pound sand and built JerryWorld in Arlington instead. The Spurs need to be downtown like when it was at Hemisfair and connecting it with the underused Alamodome is an excellent idea to kick some life in that place as well. You only get one shot at these things folks.

lol. Cowboys haven’t actually played in Dallas since they used the Cotton Bowl as their home base. The Legacy Texas Stadium was in Irving. Who cares if they move from Irving to Arlington?

As for the AlamoDome, that will always be underutilized as long as the McCombs family retains the concession rights. The event promoters and city don’t see a dime of that money.

[ChumpDumper]

https://x.com/News4SA/status/1948733868527251796

Honestly more than I thought they would pony up. Gonna be difficult to refuse them since it looks like that amount is most of the cost of a new arena. If the city manages to get the land bridge and the new façade on the dome, they should be in the running for Final Fours for another couple decades.

[onechance87]

Lets get this rolling.

[scott]

If the County gets an initiative on the ballot this fall, when can the city get theirs on? Does the city even need one?

[ChumpDumper]

If the County gets an initiative on the ballot this fall, when can the city get theirs on? Does the city even need one?This article deals mainly with the infrastructure around Hemisfair, but the deadline makes the timing of the Spurs' proposal pretty logical.

Council members have until Aug. 18 to place a bond measure on the Nov. 4 ballot. City officials said the measure could include funding for the first set of infrastructure projects as well as money for affordable housing and improvements in neighborhoods around the district.

https://www.visitsanantonio.com/meeting-professionals/in-the-news/post/heres-what-first-phase-of-upgrades-for-project-marvel-could-cost/

[NASpurs]

I know it would drive costs up but they really need to figure out the parking situation there if not, create some kind of rail system from the various sides of town. I'm guessing people would be parking in the Alamodome parking lot as well but the traffic is going to be cheeks.

In Dallas, I liked how I could take a train from Arlington to the American Airlines Center.

[Bruno]

Is it known if the February rodeo will move to the new arena ?

Not having the RRT would be quite a big change for Spurs.

[rjv]

Is it known if the February rodeo will move to the new arena ?

Not having the RRT would be quite a big change for Spurs.

The Frost Bank Center would have the added advantage of the Freeman Coliseum grounds as a place for all the livestock and a venue for the actual rodeo events. Then there's the carnival space to consider. Also, the Rodeo would keep the FBC relevant for at least three weeks of the year and would generate revenue.

[ChumpDumper]

The Frost Bank Center would have the added advantage of the Freeman Coliseum grounds as a place for all the livestock and a venue for the actual rodeo events. Then there's the carnival space to consider. Also, the Rodeo would keep the FBC relevant for at least three weeks of the year and would generate revenue.

Yeah they need to try and make that place Rodeoland or some shit.

[baseline bum]

I know it would drive costs up but they really need to figure out the parking situation there if not, create some kind of rail system from the various sides of town. I'm guessing people would be parking in the Alamodome parking lot as well but the traffic is going to be cheeks.

In Dallas, I liked how I could take a train from Arlington to the American Airlines Center.

Shit I can't believe they don't even have Park & Ride anymore to the games. God I hate dealing with the parking lot at FB Center.

[ChumpDumper]

I know it would drive costs up but they really need to figure out the parking situation there if not, create some kind of rail system from the various sides of town. I'm guessing people would be parking in the Alamodome parking lot as well but the traffic is going to be cheeks.

In Dallas, I liked how I could take a train from Arlington to the American Airlines Center.There will be an Alamodome garage built along with the arena and park & ride will be subsidized. I haven't seen the actual plans but the link I posted has all the road projects planned.

[TekXX]

Shit I can't believe they don't even have Park & Ride anymore to the games. God I hate dealing with the parking lot at FB Center.

It seemed pretty orderly, what am i missing? Obviously, you had to avoid getting hit with a stray bullet going through the ghetto but once you're there it doesn't seem too bad.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I’m not originally from San Antonio, but I’ve been living here now for 4 years and I hope they get this stadium downtown built.

I know it’s gonna cause issues with traffic and maybe have us paying a bit more in taxes, but I truly believe it could help a lot of those businesses downtown and it would definitely be great to actually walk and do stuff before and after games.

[bigfan]

lol. Cowboys haven’t actually played in Dallas since they used the Cotton Bowl as their home base. The Legacy Texas Stadium was in Irving. Who cares if they move from Irving to Arlington?

As for the AlamoDome, that will always be underutilized as long as the McCombs family retains the concession rights. The event promoters and city don’t see a dime of that money.

Jerry wanted it right in downtown Dallas off Lamar by the police station next to the convention center and those two old bags wanted him to build it near the Cotton Bowl so after months of bs he told them to shove off. This Marvel plan looks great, would be great for downtown and every citizen of San Antonio and the Spurs have agreed to pony up big bucks too. Make it happen.

[scott]

Shit I can't believe they don't even have Park & Ride anymore to the games. God I hate dealing with the parking lot at FB Center.

FYI homie, I can't respond to your DMs because your storage space is full :lol

[baseline bum]

FYI homie, I can't respond to your DMs because your storage space is full :lol

Oh shit cleared it all out now

[BatManu20]

1949091102671114648

[T Park]

I’m not originally from San Antonio, but I’ve been living here now for 4 years and I hope they get this stadium downtown built.

I know it’s gonna cause issues with traffic and maybe have us paying a bit more in taxes, but I truly believe it could help a lot of those businesses downtown and it would definitely be great to actually walk and do stuff before and after games.

from the plans ive seen,. unless you rent a car or hotel room, you won't pay anything

[T Park]

Yeah they need to try and make that place Rodeoland or some shit.

like the Texans in Houston, there would be no Spurs in San Antonio without the rodeo.

[ChumpDumper]

like the Texans in Houston, there would be no Spurs in San Antonio without the rodeo.

Sure, but now they don't have to share a venue. It looks like the rodeo is going to take over managing the Frost Bank Center; I'm glad it's working out that way so they can expand their operations out there.

[spurs10]

Sure, but now they don't have to share a venue. It looks like the rodeo is going to take over managing the Frost Bank Center; I'm glad it's working out that way so they can expand their operations out there. Hear, hear. 'Expanding their operations' will be great. We will need a new name for the Rodeo Road Trip.

[exstatic]

Hear, hear. 'Expanding their operations' will be great. We will need a new name for the Rodeo Road Trip.

No longer sharing the Frost Center with the rodeo ends the need for the RRT. It also means we could host the ASG, since that always fell during the rodeo.

[talkspurs]

If they get the new arena I would think we would get the All star game shortly after. no inside info but the new stadium better weather then most of the country. walk able downtown . dome and convention center could host events right there.

[ismael-robert]

We have hosted allstar...we have alamodome

[exstatic]

We have hosted allstar...we have alamodome

Yeah, 30 years ago, when we played in the Dome. Haven’t hosted it since.

[CGD]

I’m not originally from San Antonio, but I’ve been living here now for 4 years and I hope they get this stadium downtown built.

I know it’s gonna cause issues with traffic and maybe have us paying a bit more in taxes, but I truly believe it could help a lot of those businesses downtown and it would definitely be great to actually walk and do stuff before and after games.

+ 1000

[Biggems]

No longer sharing the Frost Center with the rodeo ends the need for the RRT. It also means we could host the ASG, since that always fell during the rodeo.

Hopefully with much better looking jerseys

[Obstructed_View]

So excited to have Spurs bball downtown again. That makes it worth the drive.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/3nOqBa2na78?si=bnKFVdsdgRQkTN-D

[djohn2oo8]

1953284094948716735

[pRoshi]

Shit I can't believe they don't even have Park & Ride anymore to the games. God I hate dealing with the parking lot at FB Center.

The only park and ride I've used is at crossroads mall. That was for the one Spurs game played at the Alamodome when we tried to break the attendance record. For the most part the traffic getting to a spurs game at the FB center isn't so bad, but i like to get to shit way too early.

[baseline bum]

The only park and ride I've used is at crossroads mall. That was for the one Spurs game played at the Alamodome when we tried to break the attendance record. For the most part the traffic getting to a spurs game at the FB center isn't so bad, but i like to get to shit way too early.

I loved the park and ride because I could avoid paying $20 for parking and then waiting forever to get out of the lot after the game. Hopefully with them looking to have a good shot at a playoff spot they'll start opening the park and ride again. Was nice using the one on Randolph Blvd.

[rjv]

mayor jones isn't looking to competent; already lost her first battle.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

The only park and ride I've used is at crossroads mall. That was for the one Spurs game played at the Alamodome when we tried to break the attendance record. For the most part the traffic getting to a spurs game at the FB center isn't so bad, but i like to get to shit way too early.

Crossroads PNR was really convenient for us. We'd all meet at Dave and Busters for happy hour and ride the PNR to game. After game we'd go back to Dave and Busters for reverse happy hour. Those were good times.

[spurraider21]

come to vegas

[BatManu20]

1953586592548872571

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Why is Gina Ortiz Jones being such a C*nt

[onechance87]

Why is Gina Ortiz Jones being such a C*nt

shes a lesbian who doesnt care for sports.There are rumors if gina fcks this up,Spurs could sale
and lose the spurs for good.Cant lose our only pro sports francise or make enemies with them.

[TXstbobcat]

This is the main reason I voted for Rolando Pablos.

[TXstbobcat]

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2025/08/08/fate-of-larger-public-funding-scheme-for-spurs-arena-could-rest-on-november-vote/

can the city of San Antonio make this vote like the 2025 All-Star game vote where on certain days your vote counts 3 - 1

[TekXX]

The establisment won this round, corporate bootlickers

[djohn2oo8]

1953586592548872571
1953632892892196944

Seen this before. Could turn contentious.

[vy65]

Play stupid games, Seattle/Vegas/Kansas City/Pittsburgh/Austin might win some prizes

[djohn2oo8]

Play stupid games, Seattle/Vegas/Kansas City/Pittsburgh/Austin might win some prizes
She’s clearly going to campaign against this publicly and that matters if this comes up for a vote.

[vy65]

If SA balks at chipping in to build a much needed new stadium for the best thing that’s ever happened to it, then SA doesn’t deserve the spurs.

[bigfan]

Former Dallas Mayor Laura Miller and former Dallas County Judge Margaret Kelleher were singularly responsible for running Jerry Jones off to Arlington. He wanted that great stadium right in the middle of downtown Dallas and those two short-sighted sports hating haggamiers jerked Jones around for so long he told them to f off and he built his place in Arlington. You cannot imagine how deadsville downtown Dallas is at night. When the Spurs played at Hemisfair things were great, especially at all the Riverwalk bars and restaurants after another victory. Don't blow this, it seems a great plan, will bring back the Alamodome, even repurpose that oddball courthouse into something useful. Get it done SA!

[scott]

1953632892892196944

Seen this before. Could turn contentious.

This isn't an altogether unreasonable position for the Mayor to take, but it's not like this came out of nowhere... why wasn't all of this work already done?

Fucking up a new arena for the Spurs is a sure fire way to find yourself completely blackballed from politics forever, tbh.

[talkspurs]

I loved the park and ride because I could avoid paying $20 for parking and then waiting forever to get out of the lot after the game. Hopefully with them looking to have a good shot at a playoff spot they'll start opening the park and ride again. Was nice using the one on Randolph Blvd.

Currently under construction but should be finished before to long. I think it will have less spots then the previous one there.

[Robz4000]

Arena will be built imo, not a doubt in my mind. The rest of Project Marvel may not happen though tbh.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

If SA balks at chipping in to build a much needed new stadium for the best thing that’s ever happened to it, then SA doesn’t deserve the spurs.

I read her quote and I actually think she has legit reasons for wanting to delay. I dont think folks understand just how much damage that DOGE and the GOP tax cuts for the rich have taken away from municipal budgets. Literally every city, state, and county across the U.S. is currently struggling with massive budget deficits at the moment and coming up with $500 million would be difficult anywhere.

[exstatic]

shes a lesbian who doesnt care for sports.There are rumors if gina fcks this up,Spurs could sale
and lose the spurs for good.Cant lose our only pro sports francise or make enemies with them.

She won’t be able to stop it. They ran right over her at the last city council meeting.

[exstatic]

I read her quote and I actually think she has legit reasons for wanting to delay. I dont think folks understand just how much damage that DOGE and the GOP tax cuts for the rich have taken away from municipal budgets. Literally every city, state, and county across the U.S. is currently struggling with massive budget deficits at the moment and coming up with $500 million would be difficult anywhere.

I’m sure either Seattle or Vegas would be happy to build a new arena for the Spurs, and that’s the bottom line. We can’t not do this, so dragging heels helps nothing.

[vy65]

Echoing what Scott said, why didn’t the city run a feasibility study in the past several years the project has been proposed? Some of the content of Mayor David Jones Garcia’s proposed study (why the ITC site, can we support two stadiums) seems slap dickish at best and dilatory at worst. If those are really SA’s concerns, then that’s work that should have been done way earlier in the project. And it’s hard to understand the criticism that Bexar county residents are paying for the stadium where the public portion is being paid by hotel and rental car taxes.

But keep playing stupid games SA. Let’s see how this turns out for you.

[djohn2oo8]

She won’t be able to stop it. They ran right over her at the last city council meeting.
Doesn’t it have to come up for a vote in November?

[TXstbobcat]

Doesn’t it have to come up for a vote in November?

correct. Bexar county residents vote on this on 11/4.

[TDomination]

I’m sure either Seattle or Vegas would be happy to build a new arena for the Spurs, and that’s the bottom line. We can’t not do this, so dragging heels helps nothing.
bingo

somebody somewhere will use money to pay for this, no doubt about it. So it might as well be us.

[NASpurs]

This lady might be lynched if she's the cause as to why this team moved somewhere else.

[spurraider21]

Play stupid games, Seattle/Vegas/Kansas City/Pittsburgh/Austin might win some prizes
https://media1.tenor.com/m/acU28-Gj1W0AAAAd/jack-nicholson-jack.gif

[Trill Clinton]

Project Marvel needs to pass already. That area has been gentrified already so they might as well go all the way with it and get it done.

[ChumpDumper]

I think even Austin would consider building an arena if the Spurs were going in halfsies. The city here seems to be in a permanent holding pattern with the only real site of theirs where they could put one. Logistically it would be a disaster but the MLS stadium more or less is too. Round Rock/Wilco would probably fall all over themselves to make their own sports district near Dell Diamond or some stupid shit like that.

[baseline bum]

The establisment won this round, corporate bootlickers

In America the corporations win every round.

[vy65]

I think even Austin would consider building an arena if the Spurs were going in halfsies. The city here seems to be in a permanent holding pattern with the only real site of theirs where they could put one. Logistically it would be a disaster but the MLS stadium more or less is too. Round Rock/Wilco would probably fall all over themselves to make their own sports district near Dell Diamond or some stupid shit like that.

Shame they're redoing the convention center. That would have been a dope space for a downtown stadium.

[djohn2oo8]

This lady might be lynched if she's the cause as to why this team moved somewhere else.
But she shouldn’t be. That dumbass DOGE shit Texas adopted was always going to give a reason to drag feet on this.

[scott]

I’m sure either Seattle or Vegas would be happy to build a new arena for the Spurs, and that’s the bottom line. We can’t not do this, so dragging heels helps nothing.

While I hope this the Marvel deal gets done, this is a pretty cavalier approach to the situation. If you were in charge of negotiating, Holt Jr would offer zero and demand you pay for the whole thing.

[scott]

Also important to keep in mind, Vegas doesn't need to build an arena to attract the Spurs, they already have one (that wasn't built with any public dollars).

Since Vegas is the biggest threat, it makes sense to look to them as an example and the A's stadium project is a decent guide. It's roughly estimated at a $2B project, and the public is kicking in $380MM of that. The Spurs are getting a pretty sweet deal if they can get away with only paying 1/3rd... it's not totally unreasonable for the city to try to extract a little more out of them if they can.

Ultimately, the city absolutely cannot afford to fuck this up, but don't lose sight that the Spurs ownership are primary beneficiaries of what is currently proposed.

[itzsoweezee]

What a stupid, sports obsessed country we live in. Absolutely bonkers that governments are willing to give handouts to billionaires. And the dumber the resident, the more willing they are to empty their pockets for this billionaire welfare.

[rjv]

there are more components to this project than just a Spurs arena.

[exstatic]

While I hope this the Marvel deal gets done, this is a pretty cavalier approach to the situation. If you were in charge of negotiating, Holt Jr would offer zero and demand you pay for the whole thing.

It’s reality, Scott. It’s also based on the situation today,where the Spurs have already offered a pile of money to the project.

[LeBowen]

What a stupid, sports obsessed country we live in. Absolutely bonkers that governments are willing to give handouts to billionaires. And the dumber the resident, the more willing they are to empty their pockets for this billionaire welfare.

I 100% agree, it's just that in this specific situation a city like San Antonio can't afford to lose it's only team, especially not with Wemby being the potential GOAT.

[rjv]

it's also important to remember that the funding mechanisms for Project Marvel, such as the PFZ and venue tax, can only be spent on these type of projects. realistically, competitive projects that could be left out would entail some performing arts centers in the area such as the Magik's Children Theater and the San Antonio Philharmonic.

[tonight...you]

it's also important to remember that the funding mechanisms for Project Marvel, such as the PFZ and venue tax, can only be spent on these type of projects. realistically, competitive projects that could be left out would entail some performing arts centers in the area such as the Magik's Children Theater and the San Antonio Philharmonic.
Didn't a younger Pau Gasol once turn down going to the Spurs because of it's poor opera scene?

[rjv]

Didn't a younger Pau Gasol once turn down going to the Spurs because of it's poor opera scene?

gasol is European and spent time in Los Angeles and Chicago. there was no way he was going to find any sort of performing arts in SA that would have compared. and SA has never placed an emphasis on the arts. i guess one could argue that the establishment of a vibrant downtown scene could be the catalyst for more traffic into these other performance venues. the completion of the Alameda renovation might help to restore some of the golden days of SA's place as a performing arts destination. i think the Tobin has come up short in that regard.

[baseline bum]

What a stupid, sports obsessed country we live in. Absolutely bonkers that governments are willing to give handouts to billionaires. And the dumber the resident, the more willing they are to empty their pockets for this billionaire welfare.

Agreed, but I know my tax dollars are going to billionaire welfare anyways so might as well gift it to a company I like (the Spurs). It's not like there is much opportunity cost when the city isn't going to do anything useful like subway / light rail or public internet with the money if they don't gift the Spurs an arena.

[CGD]

This isn't an altogether unreasonable position for the Mayor to take, but it's not like this came out of nowhere... why wasn't all of this work already done?

Fucking up a new arena for the Spurs is a sure fire way to find yourself completely blackballed from politics forever, tbh.

She inherited a really tough political situation. I want this project as much as anyone and the revitalized downtown that we desperately need and deserve.

But I also agree that her position is not unreasonable, especially after the moronic Trump Budget Bill that just passed in July. Reality is cities and states are gonna have to foot huge bills for a lot of shortfalls as a result of it. I don’t think the average American fully appreciates how deep those cuts coming are.

[Das Texan]

Considering 7 of 10 Council Members want this to proceed, its going to happen.

Just this idiot mayor delaying what is going to happen.

This is what happens when stupid San Antonio citizens dont fucking bother to show up for an election (or pay attention to any debate).

[onechance87]

She won’t be able to stop it. They ran right over her at the last city council meeting.

Im just worried she might start campaigning against the project and influnce and motivate voters to go against it as well.So far
been seeing mixed reactions about it.

[exstatic]

Im just worried she might start campaigning against the project and influnce and motivate voters to go against it as well.So far
been seeing mixed reactions about it.

She’s permanently politically dead if she does that.

[talkspurs]

Echoing what Scott said, why didn’t the city run a feasibility study in the past several years the project has been proposed? Some of the content of Mayor David Jones Garcia’s proposed study (why the ITC site, can we support two stadiums) seems slap dickish at best and dilatory at worst. If those are really SA’s concerns, then that’s work that should have been done way earlier in the project. And it’s hard to understand the criticism that Bexar county residents are paying for the stadium where the public portion is being paid by hotel and rental car taxes.

But keep playing stupid games SA. Let’s see how this turns out for you.

The money that this is being taken from can also be used for other things. I dont know what it currently pays for things (I am guessing bonds) but could be used for infrastructure, flooding control. I also am not against some things in it. Updating the dome I think is good.

[KobesAchilles]

The Spurs don’t even need a new arena. They just needed to actually build around the old one and have stuff to do. But being downtown will help as people can go to stuff before and after the game

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs don’t even need a new arena. They just needed to actually build around the old one and have stuff to do.There's no place to build unless someone is going to buy up and clean up all the industrial/warehouse properties around the FBC or bulldoze Willow Springs.

This is a rare opportunity to redevelop absolutely prime downtown property. If they want to be a tourist backwater they should just leave Hemisfair as mostly open space as a pretty monument to their timidity.

[KobesAchilles]

There's no place to build unless someone is going to buy up and clean up all the industrial/warehouse properties around the FBC or bulldoze Willow Springs.

This is a rare opportunity to redevelop absolutely prime downtown property. If they want to be a tourist backwater they should just leave Hemisfair as mostly open space as a pretty monument to their timidity.
I can see why they are building the new arena downtown. It makes sense. But when they first built the SBC Center they had ideas and promises of turning that whole area into an area where people can bar hop and eat out and etc etc. instead they just have the Valero as the hangout spot :lol

[bluebellmaniac]

I can see why they are building the new arena downtown. It makes sense. But when they first built the SBC Center they had ideas and promises of turning that whole area into an area where people can bar hop and eat out and etc etc. instead they just have the Valero as the hangout spot :lol

Unfulfilled promises of grandiose development to build up an area in decay does not bode well for any promises for downtown.

[ChumpDumper]

I can see why they are building the new arena downtown. It makes sense. But when they first built the SBC Center they had ideas and promises of turning that whole area into an area where people can bar hop and eat out and etc etc.
All that was pie in the sky.

It was the best the county could do after the city shit the bed.

[ChumpDumper]

Unfulfilled promises of grandiose development to build up an area in decay does not bode well for any promises for downtown.

The grandiose development is precisely what would be built in Project Marvel. Can't think of bigger projects outside of military bases down there.

[CGD]

This isn't an altogether unreasonable position for the Mayor to take, but it's not like this came out of nowhere... why wasn't all of this work already done?

Fucking up a new arena for the Spurs is a sure fire way to find yourself completely blackballed from politics forever, tbh.

I mean some of it DID come out of nowhere. The Trump Budget Bill, which will lead to the gutting of all sort of programs, wasn’t an entirely foreseeable thing even as recent as 3 months ago.

My sense is that she is struggling to find a place to hang her hat on this. Obviously the spurs are politically popular. She’s smart. But, she also knows she’ll have to explain that MASSIVE expenditure at a time when cities across America are gonna be asked to be backstops to food pantries closing, people losing health insurance, and scaled back support for schools (among other things).

[exstatic]

I mean some of it DID come out of nowhere. The Trump Budget Bill, which will lead to the gutting of all sort of programs, wasn’t an entirely foreseeable thing even as recent as 3 months ago.

My sense is that she is struggling to find a place to hang her hat on this. Obviously the spurs are politically popular. She’s smart. But, she also knows she’ll have to explain that MASSIVE expenditure at a time when cities across America are gonna be asked to be backstops to food pantries closing, people losing health insurance, and scaled back support for schools (among other things).

If she had run on a ‘don’t build a stadium with public money’ platform, she would have lost the election. I see a lot of her position as performative, appeasement to her base.

[CGD]

If she had run on a ‘don’t build a stadium with public money’ platform, she would have lost the election. I see a lot of her position as performative, appeasement to her base.

Is that what she saying? I don’t read her commentary to say “no public funds” for a stadium.

Also, well yeah, these guys are elected with the support of a coalitions. So if the people that elected you care about the impact of these cuts on healthcare, food pantries, etc. (or whatever), it’s political malpractice to have one of your first things out the gate be something that seem against that (corporate subsidies etc). Politics 101.

She’s navigating all this I’m sure.

[BatManu20]

Translation: You will fuck us out of tens of millions of dollars over the coming years if you do not build this arena and renovate the dome.

1954943832807584084

[djohn2oo8]

1954962838776340953

[djohn2oo8]

She’s permanently politically dead if she does that.
Well that seems to be the plan. I don’t think she cares if she takes a political hit.

[rjv]

Well that seems to be the plan. I don’t think she cares if she takes a political hit.

jones is very politically ambitious and is likely using her time as mayor as a potential stepping stone to another run for congress. if she publicly campaigns against Marvel, she will lose support from council and will have a hard time pushing her agenda through. it would be disastrous for her if she wound up a lame duck mayor for three years. having the support of COPS/Metro will mean nothing if she can't do anything for them down the road.

[ChumpDumper]

1954962838776340953

The FBC lease runs out in 2032. The most aggro timeline had the Spurs downtown for the 2028-29 season. The Asst. City Manager said they wanted the main parts of Phase 1 including the arena done by 2030, so the mayor is probably right to say there is time but talking like everything should come to a halt is just bad messaging. I don't see why she couldn't have her answers by the time the county taxpayers vote on [the tourists'] part of the funding.

[djohn2oo8]

The FBC lease runs out in 2032. The most aggro timeline had the Spurs downtown for the 2028-29 season. The Asst. City Manager said they wanted the main parts of Phase 1 including the arena done by 2030, so the mayor is probably right to say there is time but talking like everything should come to a halt is just bad messaging. I don't see why she couldn't have her answers by the time the county taxpayers vote on [the tourists'] part of the funding.
It doesn’t appear as if she wants it at all. Per the next tweet

[djohn2oo8]

1954986180866429390

[vy65]

PR101: when you put the word "strategic" in front of your action, you're already doing damage control. If all she is after is more information, then why can't she just ask for that information - and also not hit the pause button? What's the point of pausing the project if all you want is information? Is she going to try to negotiate with the spurs after getting the diligence she's seeking? Again, if you want to negotiate more then why not just negotiate more vs. pausing the development wholesale.

That last tweet had her speaking nonsense. Wtf does pausing Project Marvel have to do with wealth inequality? If the concern is about economic opportunity, then why stall a multi-billion dollar development? Again, the City's portion is being funded out of a tourism tax, so it's not coming out of the wallets of ostensibly impoverished San Antonians.

There may be a good reason for what she's doing. But what's abundantly clear is that she is doing a piss poor job messaging why she is doing what she is doing.

[rjv]

from my vantage point, she is going to lose her first public battle. council is going to vote to move ahead with it and she'll have no choice but to allow the voters to decide. she's definitely not going to endorse it but hard to say if she'll actively campaign against it.

[spurraider21]

https://www.tripsavvy.com/thmb/wLzVR_Zi3--ChhLd3cBoNEhVfgg=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/DSC_7511-744f886db0b248aaa574ac3501764c99.jpg

[rjv]

NBA owners don't want a relocation team in Vegas. They want to benefit from the revenue sharing of the $3 billion that an expansion team would bring.

[exstatic]

NBA owners don't want a relocation team in Vegas. They want to benefit from the revenue sharing of the $3 billion that an expansion team would bring.

They are now pausing expansion,because the owners don’t want to split the new media deal 32 ways. That’s less per team than currently spitting it 30 ways. The one time fee they get would be offset by decreased media income in just a few years.

[onechance87]

Wow actually seeing big support for gina from residents.It looks like shes already campaigning against the spurs.She trying to make
it seem like the spurs are another rich company trying to screw san antonio.Asking for a pause is saying she dont trust the
spurs and there tactics.

[ChumpDumper]

1954986180866429390She's being super mealy-mouthed about it. Sounds like she's trying to put herself into a position where she can take credit or deny it whatever happens by saying she has concerns but really can't do anything about it.

I expect the Spurs folks to sit down with the city manager or someone else who could (and maybe already does) understand all of it and that person will relay it all to the council who will green light it while Ortiz can say she tried.

And if one wants to say SA needs to act like the 7th largest city in the US, it's completely fair to say it's time for the city to pony up for an arena after completely sitting out the last three decades only putting like $15 million into the dome while the county did all the heavy lifting with the FBC well after its construction, renovating it for over $100 million knowing it was already half way through it's foreseeable lifespan as a main venue.

[rjv]

They are now pausing expansion,because the owners don’t want to split the new media deal 32 ways. That’s less per team than currently spitting it 30 ways. The one time fee they get would be offset by decreased media income in just a few years.

i think Silver is putting a pause on expansion until 2027-28, when more than half the teams will have expiring contracts with their regional networks. a RSN platform in which all teams, including expansion franchises, agree to participate in could be a game changer.

[BatManu20]

Lol get fucked lady.

1955022844632633458

[BatManu20]

https://www.tripsavvy.com/thmb/wLzVR_Zi3--ChhLd3cBoNEhVfgg=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/DSC_7511-744f886db0b248aaa574ac3501764c99.jpg

Vegas will get their team eventually, but it shouldn't be the Spurs. Plus based on Wemby's recent comments regarding LV, that might be the worst place we could relocate to tbh. :lol

1740636063708672397

[rjv]

^^ he ain't wrong.

[vy65]

Vegas would be a fucking nightmare to actually live in. Outside of the usual suspects, I think a team in CDMX would be kinda dope. Huge, potentially untapped market, futbol notwithstanding.

[spurraider21]

Vegas would be a fucking nightmare to actually live in. Outside of the usual suspects, I think a team in CDMX would be kinda dope. Huge, potentially untapped market, futbol notwithstanding.
i mean you dont gotta live on the strip lol

i live in SW vegas and it just feels like suburbia not much different from living in the san fernando valley in LA. not as many awesome restaurants, but same vibe tbh

[tonight...you]

Vegas would be a fucking nightmare to actually live in. Outside of the usual suspects, I think a team in CDMX would be kinda dope. Huge, potentially untapped market, futbol notwithstanding.
Ciudad Mexico is the shit. Love that place, except for the insane traffic and driving.
That is next level shit.
The food and culture though... amazing.
As is the smog and the surrounding towns filled with nothing, but roving bands of feral dogs.

Also El Popo going off and the town is built upon a swamp.

[Das Texan]

Oritz Jones is the worst mayor this century for San Antonio and she has been in the job for a month.

Completley unprepared, completely out of touch with San Antonio itself.

If San Antonio is going to act like the 7th biggest city then this is an easy thing to pass along with better public transportation. Maybe funding the arts as well, since all the other bigger cities do that.

Her stance should surprise nobody. But nobody paid the fuck attention to what she was blathering on about during the debates with Pablos. They just saw, D good, R bad.

Plus the idiot San Antonio citizens didnt bother to show up.

Along with the out going city council members eating themselves and all losing becuase they couldnt agree on whom should run for mayor.

End of day, this is going to pass. Ortiz Jones is going to be railroaded by on this and there isnt really anything her or a certain Council member can do who are in some fantasy land about economic impacts on things.

Plus as said before, this city hasnt paid anything for a basketball arena since they expanded Hemisfair. LOL

[The Truth #6]

I will admit I have not paid much attention to the details of the negotiation. But in situations like this, I think I would have a few general questions or thoughts.

1. She's trying to show some due diligence because the city has been trying to railroad this through.

2. Or everyone else already got their cut and she is slowing this down because she wants to get her cut.

That's the cynical interpretation that I would have to guess is usually halfway right, too often.

The other factor could just be that the predecessor went too fast and she just doesn't want to make a quick decision.

Obviously as Spurs fans everybody wants this to go through because they don't want to lose the Spurs, but no matter what the Spurs are going to get a sweetheart corporate bullshit deal. So if she can negotiate for this Spurs to pay more it's not like I'm really offended or anything.

But like I said I'm getting up to speed, so I could easily be wrong.

[ZeusWillJudge]

...And if one wants to say SA needs to act like the 7th largest city in the US, it's completely fair to say it's time for the city to pony up for an arena after completely sitting out the last three decades only putting like $15 million into the dome while the county did all the heavy lifting with the FBC well after its construction, renovating it for over $100 million knowing it was already half way through it's foreseeable lifespan as a main venue.


Whether the new arena gets built or not, that's just an absolutely ignorant Austin-ite comment. It's like saying the money came out of the cookie jar and not the sock drawer. Who is the City, and who is the County? It's US. The only difference is that running it through the County spreads the cost out over a few more people. But the money still comes out of the same bucket. There is no autonomous government with its own money. And City or County, they were/are all elected by the citizens. Drones like you love to say, "The people are all for this", but the people voted for other people who are against it. Your arena is going to get built, because the people who will benefit the most financially can afford the most effective PR campaign.

When they decided to build that stupid statue of Me at Olympia, I tried to tell them to spend the money on light donkey carts instead. But do you little hairless monkeys listen? Noooo, they just increased the tax on hydromel and papyrus and built it anyway. Now it's one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Except it's...you know...gone. For the record, when you increase the tax on mead, people keep drinking. When you increase the tax on papyrus, they quit writing and reading as much, and you wind up like Austin, with people screaming to defund the Scythian archers.

[Das Texan]

Also as per usual, there is not one cent of additional taxes on San Antonio residents for this project, unless you elect to stay in a hotel that will front the majority of these taxes or frequent the new businesses that will be in the district, in which case the project already starts to pay for itself.

The short sighted mindset is why San Antonio is the largest city (by far) without any real public transit system in place (and a few other long standing issues). Its why 281 is a fucking winding mess north of Downtown.

[ChumpDumper]

Whether the new arena gets built or not, that's just an absolutely ignorant Austin-ite comment. It's like saying the money came out of the cookie jar and not the sock drawer. Who is the City, and who is the County? It's US. The only difference is that running it through the County spreads the cost out over a few more people. But the money still comes out of the same bucket. There is no autonomous government with its own money. And City or County, they were/are all elected by the citizens. Drones like you love to say, "The people are all for this", but the people voted for other people who are against it. Your arena is going to get built, because the people who will benefit the most financially can afford the most effective PR campaign.

When they decided to build that stupid statue of Me at Olympia, I tried to tell them to spend the money on light donkey carts instead. But do you little hairless monkeys listen? Noooo, they just increased the tax on hydromel and papyrus and built it anyway. Now it's one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Except it's...you know...gone. For the record, when you increase the tax on mead, people keep drinking. When you increase the tax on papyrus, they quit writing and reading as much, and you wind up like Austin, with people screaming to defund the Scythian archers.

:lol The people paying the county taxes for the SBC and the new arena isn't YOU -- it's ME when I rent a hotel room down there.

You seem spectacularly ignorant of the past thirty years.

Your shtick is particularly stupid in this light.

I know all about people who are for and against these things because I do live in Austin and we (myself included) regularly tell companies and sports teams to pound sand. I was pretty stunned to see how much the Spurs were willing to put up for an arena this time around. If you want the Spurs in San Antonio, you're not going to get much more from them. If you don't want them to stay in San Antonio, that's cool too. There's nothing wrong with being a charming little place for old people to putter about and bitch about service at whatever restaurants might be left downtown.

I assume you're voting against people like my being able to contribute to keeping the Spurs in San Antonio; good for you.:tu

[BatManu20]

1955108977001295954

[CGD]

Texas is fascinating to me. If this were any other project most here would be letting their “fiscal responsibility” freak flag fly. Guess Trump did change that party forever.

I want this project built. I also think there hasn’t been the most transparency so far. Gina could also help her cause if she showed us what she thinks SA is foregoing by spending $500+M (investments in education, etc etc), instead of “show me the data.” Thats a losing message.

[Das Texan]

Texas is fascinating to me. If this were any other project most here would be letting their “fiscal responsibility” freak flag fly. Guess Trump did change that party forever.

I want this project built. I also think there hasn’t been the most transparency so far. Gina could also help her cause if she showed us what she thinks SA is foregoing by spending $500+M (investments in education, etc etc), instead of “show me the data.” Thats a losing message.

San Antonio is foregoing nothing by spending this money on the Spurs. Well maybe they are losing out on some infrastucture improvements in other parts of the city that they wouldnt do or get passed if it wasnt for this project anyway.

City is paying by way of tourism taxes... Taxes in this new district (which well wouldnt exist if not for this project) and infrastrucutre (that is mostly needed in the area anyway).

But not like Gina has any fucking clue since she has never been around any form of local governance until about a month ago.

[SpurSpike]

Things are getting more expensive by the day. If she if worried about spending too much money, delaying a construction project will only increase the cost.

[onechance87]

1955108977001295954

This bitch is gonna fck everything up.

[KGB POP]

San Antonio is foregoing nothing by spending this money on the Spurs. Well maybe they are losing out on some infrastucture improvements in other parts of the city that they wouldnt do or get passed if it wasnt for this project anyway.


City is paying by way of tourism taxes... Taxes in this new district (which well wouldnt exist if not for this project) and infrastrucutre (that is mostly needed in the area anyway).


But not like Gina has any fucking clue since she has never been around any form of local governance until about a month ago.

The whole argument that "This how things have always been done therefore it must be done this way" is the ultimate cop-out of the dumb.

[KGB POP]

Some San Antonians disagree with the premise that San Antonio can't lose the Spurs under any circumstance. And regardless of where the money is coming from, it's public money and maybe it's just morally wrong that a poor city like SA should be using that money to make a nepo baby and private equity firms richer. But hey, some dumb people like being sycophants for the rich .Reflected glory and all that, right? And Holt Jr. wins either way-the city either bends over for him, or he moves the team, or he sells his interest. So screw him. Have some pride.

[exstatic]

Some San Antonians disagree with the premise that San Antonio can't lose the Spurs under any circumstance. And regardless of where the money is coming from, it's public money and maybe it's just morally wrong that a poor city like SA should be using that money to make a nepo baby and private equity firms richer. But hey, some dumb people like being sycophants for the rich .Reflected glory and all that, right? And Holt Jr. wins either way-the city either bends over for him, or he moves the team, or he sells his interest. So screw him. Have some pride.

The money comes from tourists. It’s a hotel/rental car tax. It’s not money diverted from anything else. The Spurs are also putting up $500M for the project.

Ask Seattle what they might do with a do over. It’s looking like 17 years later, they’re not even going to get an expansion franchise.

[ChumpDumper]

Some San Antonians disagree with the premise that San Antonio can't lose the Spurs under any circumstance. And regardless of where the money is coming from, it's public money and maybe it's just morally wrong that a poor city like SA should be using that money to make a nepo baby and private equity firms richer. But hey, some dumb people like being sycophants for the rich .Reflected glory and all that, right? And Holt Jr. wins either way-the city either bends over for him, or he moves the team, or he sells his interest. So screw him. Have some pride.Then what?

[djohn2oo8]

1955288200496189838

are term sheets normally non binding?

[ChumpDumper]

1955288200496189838

are term sheets normally non binding?

Until the entities bind themselves to the terms, yes.

[vy65]

1955108977001295954

lolololololol

[vy65]

Some San Antonians disagree with the premise that San Antonio can't lose the Spurs under any circumstance. And regardless of where the money is coming from, it's public money and maybe it's just morally wrong that a poor city like SA should be using that money to make a nepo baby and private equity firms richer. But hey, some dumb people like being sycophants for the rich .Reflected glory and all that, right? And Holt Jr. wins either way-the city either bends over for him, or he moves the team, or he sells his interest. So screw him. Have some pride.

Send the boys up 35 to us in Austin, we'll take great care of them.

[rjv]

lolololololol


where in the heck is that poster getting $4 billion from? that's 1.5 billion more than the Intuit Dome.

[ChumpDumper]

where in the heck is that poster getting $4 billion from? that's 1.5 billion more than the Intuit Dome.

$4 billion is an estimate for the entire project:

https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/01d09ae/2147483647/strip/true/crop/839x649+0+0/resize/880x681!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fac%2F45%2F97ca225b47 53be708790ce170534%2Fscreenshot-2024-11-21-153808.png

[TekXX]

Oritz Jones is the worst mayor this century for San Antonio and she has been in the job for a month.

Completley unprepared, completely out of touch with San Antonio itself.

If San Antonio is going to act like the 7th biggest city then this is an easy thing to pass along with better public transportation. Maybe funding the arts as well, since all the other bigger cities do that.

Her stance should surprise nobody. But nobody paid the fuck attention to what she was blathering on about during the debates with Pablos. They just saw, D good, R bad.

Plus the idiot San Antonio citizens didnt bother to show up.

Along with the out going city council members eating themselves and all losing becuase they couldnt agree on whom should run for mayor.

End of day, this is going to pass. Ortiz Jones is going to be railroaded by on this and there isnt really anything her or a certain Council member can do who are in some fantasy land about economic impacts on things.

Plus as said before, this city hasnt paid anything for a basketball arena since they expanded Hemisfair. LOL

Out of touch with whom? the establisment millionaires? The last thing San Antonio needed was Trump-lite Pablos

[rjv]

$4 billion is an estimate for the entire project:

https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/01d09ae/2147483647/strip/true/crop/839x649+0+0/resize/880x681!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fac%2F45%2F97ca225b47 53be708790ce170534%2Fscreenshot-2024-11-21-153808.png


but that's not what he wrote. and this is the general problem with the naysayers (although this is the current political climate); people don't spell things out. either it's laziness or deliberate manipulation to seed dissent. summing it up as a $4.5 billion arena is misleading. the second part of that bulletin is also misleading because the mechanism for the finding can only be used for projects such as the one proposed in project marvel. but, again, we live in times where people either make shit up and hope it sticks or are poorly informed.

[ChumpDumper]

but that's not what he wrote. and this is the general problem with the naysayers (although this is the current political climate); people don't spell things out. either it's laziness or deliberate manipulation to seed dissent. summing it up as a $4.5 billion arena is misleading. the second part of that bulletin is also misleading because the mechanism for the finding can only be used for projects such as the one proposed in project marvel. but, again, we live in times where people either make shit up and hope it sticks or are poorly informed.
Largely true. The most regular ol' city taxes going to the project will be for roads and infrastructure around it, and there is no plan to increase the tax rates to allocate that money.

[Das Texan]

Out of touch with whom? the establisment millionaires? The last thing San Antonio needed was Trump-lite Pablos

Both final options were fucking bad.

Mostly because the better options were all fucking morons and fought against themselves.

Whom exactly is Jones in touch with now anyway?

[tonight...you]

Both final options were fucking bad.

Mostly because the better options were all fucking morons and fought against themselves.

Whom exactly is Jones in touch with now anyway?
I like it when "the better options" were also morons who in-fought.
I guess there were no good options at all?

[ChumpDumper]

Express-News editorializes in favor of Project Marvel -- cites the stark difference between the proposed arena and stupid shit built in the middle of nowhere like FBC and Wolff Stadium.

[rjv]

I like it when "the better options" were also morons who in-fought.
I guess there were no good options at all?

too many candidates and a terrible date for the election; it was held on the same night as the Flambeau Parade. most san antonians would rather get drunk on overpriced crap beer and stuff their faces with gorditas than vote. less than 10% of the electorate cast a vote.

[CGD]

I mean it’ll come down to the vote in November right? It’s an off-cycle year, and around the start of the new NBA season. Not sure how this is polling right now, but if the council vote is any indication of the support for the project seems like Gina has a tough path ahead. Probably why she wants to kick this over until after this election.

[ChumpDumper]

It's just weird. Like does she know the PFZ money from state taxes can't go to food banks or low income housing?

The tourist soaking tax money has been used by the county for other things as well after and during funding the FBC.

Either she's ignorant about these simple things or is counting on the ignorance of a potential populist(?) bloc?

I haven't lived in SA for 25 years and it's super easy to look up and understand these issues.

[NASpurs]

Which Spurstalker was it?

https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/marcos-rene-olvera-san-antonio-20816572.php?utm_content=cta&sid=5936c62d2ddf9c486ef56ed6&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=41121845_20251308&utm_campaign=mysa%20%7C%20breaking%20news&stn=nf

Arrest after social media threats against Mayor Jones over Project Marvel

[mikec]

i mean you dont gotta live on the strip lol

i live in SW vegas and it just feels like suburbia not much different from living in the san fernando valley in LA. not as many awesome restaurants, but same vibe tbh

My parents live in the suburbs. They never go near the strip. They say it's nice, go hiking all the time. Not a nightmare...except the summers. Brutal.

[spurraider21]

My parents live in the suburbs. They never go near the strip. They say it's nice, go hiking all the time. Not a nightmare...except the summers. Brutal.
yeah ive been here a little over a year now and have only been to the strip when family/friends have visited and want to go :lol

[BatManu20]

1955829424940601582

[Das Texan]

1955829424940601582

Basically pushing forward in spite of the Mayor trying to be a roadblock as she learns her power isnt as immense as she was lead to believe it would be when she ran.

[djohn2oo8]

Basically pushing forward in spite of the Mayor trying to be a roadblock as she learns her power isnt as immense as she was lead to believe it would be when she ran.
She can still make it difficult by publicly denouncing it.

[ChumpDumper]

She can still make it difficult by publicly denouncing it.

How is that going to change council votes?

[CGD]

She can still make it difficult by publicly denouncing it.

Yes, except she hasn’t proven herself a good messenger so far to generate the type of public outcry needed for that.

The next opportunity is probably when it heads to voters on November, right? Will see what happens then. That’s also around the excitement of the NBA returning so it’ll be tough, especially if Wemby goes nuts for a few games lol.

[Bruno]

If the Major/City isn't fine with the whole project, Spurs should just push for the new arena and the bridge above the interstate.

I just don't see the rest of the project (convention center upgrade, new concert venue, new Hotel, UTSA Hospitality school, renovating the Alamodome) having some significant impact on the success of the arena. While Spurs truly need a new arena, it's debatable that the rest of the project is needed by SA.

[BatManu20]

1956033712321130817

[spurs10]

I thought this was in the bag. Don Harris's tweet looks promising.

[ChumpDumper]

If the Major/City isn't fine with the whole project, Spurs should just push for the new arena and the bridge above the interstate.

I just don't see the rest of the project (convention center upgrade, new concert venue, new Hotel, UTSA Hospitality school, renovating the Alamodome) having some significant impact on the success of the arena. While Spurs truly need a new arena, it's debatable that the rest of the project is needed by SA.Convention space is probably wanted by the city council more than even the arena. If only one thing happens here, it will be the convention center expansion.

[Phenomanul]

They need to include a tram rail system that operates around the inner loop. Each quadrant would have its own parking lot. That's what would be needed to ensure the downtown traffic on game days wouldn't come to a grinding halt every single time.

[onechance87]

1956033712321130817

Shes a evil woman.Shes coming off as its my way or the highway attitude.She dont seem interested in being
friends to a important piece in our city.

[djohn2oo8]

How is that going to change council votes?
Not talking about council votes. I’m talking about the public vote in November.

[djohn2oo8]

1956054284509848005

[BatManu20]

1956130216667177005

[ChumpDumper]

Not talking about council votes. I’m talking about the public vote in November.
The one that has nothing to do with her government?

[CGD]

They need to include a tram rail system that operates around the inner loop. Each quadrant would have its own parking lot. That's what would be needed to ensure the downtown traffic on game days wouldn't come to a grinding halt every single time.

Good luck with that

[CGD]

Convention space is probably wanted by the city council more than even the arena. If only one thing happens here, it will be the convention center expansion.

Yup. The piece that doesn’t really fit is the Alamodome renewal to be honest.

[exstatic]

Not talking about council votes. I’m talking about the public vote in November.

The public vote is for a renewal of the county hotel/rental car tax. We like having out of towners finance our arenas. It’ll pass in a breeze, just like last time.