Shams: Spurs Trade for Phoenix G Cam Payne

[scott]

Per Shams, Spurs get Cam Payne, a second round pick, cash in exchange for a future second round pick.

[RC_Drunkford]

somebody tell me what exactly we are getting out of this? We get a 2nd and trade a 2nd? Is Cam Payne our new starting PG?

[Obstructed_View]

Not a good sign for Wesley.

[Kurik]

Interesting, Payne is an expiring contract 6.5m I believe.

[jeebus]

Blake Wesley banished to Austin until he learns how to fuckin pass

[RC_Drunkford]

so either we got a 2nd and gave them a fake 2nd (something like top 55 protected) or we actually want to keep Cam Payne

[scott]

Per basketball-reference.com, Cam Payne’s nicknames are The Campaign, Killer Cam and Haboob :lol

[Joseph Kony]

Payne is solid, nothing special, probably on par with Jones. Now we have two backup PGs :lol

[LeBowen]

Well, it seems that Spurs have given up on trying to find an immediate PG upgrade and will just ride the season out with Tre and Payne.
Solid player, nothing special.

$6.5M expiring deal.

Wesley better start learning Chinese.

[Atl Spur]

We will probably be in on a bigger trade that will require a lot of 1 year salary going out….. we have a ton of moving parts .

[scott]

So this now makes 18 NBA contracts on our roster, with Cidy and Barlow still unsigned. We can carry up to 20 going into camp, correct?

Acquiring a bunch of expirings you can waive is certainly one way to meet the floor.

Payne does seem like an upgrade to Graham and Wesley

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I like Cam Payne, solid back-up. This trade makes the roster crunch even worse though. I expect another trade coming up soon. A 3-for-1 would help, maybe a couple of these.

[Joseph Kony]

So this now makes 18 NBA contracts on our roster, with Cidy and Barlow still unsigned. We can carry up to 20 going into camp, correct?

Acquiring a bunch of expirings you can waive is certainly one way to meet the floor.

Payne does seem like an upgrade to Graham and Wesley

He's definitely an upgrade to Wesley (which isn't saying much though). Graham is another story

[TD 21]

Payne won't affect Wesley's spot, but he might Graham's. It'll all depend on who gets consolidated into whatever trade they'll probably make.

[Atl Spur]

It’s more about the money I think vs fit/performance.

[spursparker9]

Probably just to fill up the cap. But is a low risk move and Payne is a good backup PG

[Kurik]

Yeah I think Graham and Payne are about even to be honest though it’s nice Payne is an expiring contract. Payne is two years removed from being one of if not the best backup PGs though.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Btw, it seems like the pick coming to the Spurs would be one of the 3 they got from Memphis in a recent trade for pick swaps. It'll be interesting to find out which one it is. Phoenix dealt all of their own 2nds in the Beal trade.

[scott]

Talking a little bit about Payne: he’s a career 36% 3P shooter on 3 attempts per game. In 2020-21 he shot 44% from 3 on similar volume (and played in 60 games that year so it’s not like it was a limited sample like it was the prior year when he shot 52% for PHX over 8 games).

He may not be an overall better player than Graham, but seems like a better PG than Graham.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZ477RZCSw

[BatManu20]

Our PG issue has been resolved!

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jLyYgsu5x0

[slick'81]

We back bitches!:makemyday

[BatManu20]

Blake Wesley rn.


https://media.tenor.com/yI2g8yTGP6cAAAAC/trey-tre.gif

[PrimeMinister]

roster consolidation move incoming

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He’s good from three, handles the ball fairly well and put up assist numbers similar to Trey on a per minute basis. Not a bad backup point. Feels like more moves coming though.

[timtonymanu]

I kinda like Cam Payne. Definitely think something else is happening with so many players under contract.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1680609011358396419

[spurraider21]

Nice. Payne isn’t starting caliber but he can play. Expiring deal. Another SRP. It’s not even a burden to take him on. He’d get more as a free agent.

im assuming we are also getting a real SRP and sending back a fake one otherwise the inclusions make no sense

[Eaglenole2002]

Nice. Payne isn’t starting caliber but he can play. Expiring deal. Another SRP. It’s not even a burden to take him on. He’d get more as a free agent.

im assuming we are also getting a real SRP and sending back a fake one otherwise the inclusions make no sense

Of they’re sending a real one back, I wonder if it’s just to spread out the SRPs more evenly, or further off into the future since we have more than we know what to do with.

[spurraider21]

You guys think Wesley gets waived at this point? Or are they just gonna waive pain. Seems unlikely since he’s actually a decent player. Better than Graham at least

[Big Empty]

Yall think this is part of a bigger upcoming trade?

[Mr. Body]

A consolidation trade looks more than likely, unless they really want to eat a lot of salary before the season starts. I wonder if Miami wants depth for Lowry. Not sure what other pieces are out there.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Worth noting the Spurs have sold their cap space for more stuff than Detroit (Harris) or OKC (Bertans, Oladipo) could.

[exstatic]

I like Cam Payne, solid back-up. This trade makes the roster crunch even worse though. I expect another trade coming up soon. A 3-for-1 would help, maybe a couple of these.

They’re going to cut Stevens by tomorrow, because they don’t want to guarantee his money.

[spurraider21]

A consolidation trade looks more than likely, unless they really want to eat a lot of salary before the season starts. I wonder if Miami wants depth for Lowry. Not sure what other pieces are out there.
Depth for Lowry is possible. We have a lot of expiring guys who can play reasonable roles. Bullock/Osman/Payne/Graham*/McDermott

[RC_Drunkford]

Osman, Bullock and Payne (and maybe Birch) would be enough to take on Lowry or Herro and are actually decent bench pieces for a contender. I‘m pretty sure we‘re about to send them to Miami

[Mugen]

The Spurs have like 40+ mil in expiring contracts and obviously a ton of draft capital they can attach. I don't think they will but they could get a really big time player or at least a big time contract with that. Damn tbh

[Mr. Body]

Depth for Lowry is possible. We have a lot of expiring guys who can play reasonable roles. Bullock/Osman/Payne/Graham*/McDermott

I think Miami is hanging onto Lowry for the Lillard trade, though. Who knows.

[spurs1990]

Payne IIRC was Westbrick's sidekick during his stat padding OKC season. Meh move

[spurraider21]

I think Miami is hanging onto Lowry for the Lillard trade, though. Who knows.
Woulda made more sense for them to take on a couple of pieces like bullock and Payne and then have us absorb the rest of the salary. If we can’t absorb any it doesn’t make as much sense. But alas we can offer all expiring deals anyway

[spurraider21]

I’d still like to be in on Herro. I’m not letting branham get in the way of acquiring a known commodity who can be the flamethrower our backcourt could use

[MannyIsGod]

If Payne can regain form I love this trade. Even if not I still think it's a good zero risk flyer.

[Mugen]

I'm warming up to Tyler Herro being the starting PG next season tbh :lol

[slick'81]

Spurs have more then enough expiring's and picks to make any deal they want

[DPG21920]

somebody tell me what exactly we are getting out of this? We get a 2nd and trade a 2nd? Is Cam Payne our new starting PG?

Spurs trading a fake second…they have to send something out in a deal; either cash or a pick but since they are getting cash from PHX as well for saving them money? Spurs sending out a top 55 protected 2nd to satisfy requirements

[Mr. Body]

PHX also traded a 2025 pick swap for three SRPs. Interesting development.

[Old School 44]

Ok, somebody start the “Cam House of Payne” thread.

[Mr. Body]

I'm warming up to Tyler Herro being the starting PG next season tbh :lol

Heat tried him at PG and it really doesn't work.

[Mugen]

Spurs have the following in the war chest:
-A ton of varied draft capital
-40+ mil in expirings
-A good young player on a solid contract (Keldon)

If there's a big time player available, they could literally outbid almost anybody tbh. I don't think they'll make a splash but man if they're somewhat decent by December, they should explore pushing those chips in a little earlier tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs have the following in the war chest:
-A ton of varied draft capital
-40+ mil in expirings
-A good young player on a solid contract (Keldon)

If there's a big time player available, they could literally outbid almost anybody tbh. I don't think they'll make a splash but man if they're somewhat decent by December, they should explore pushing those chips in a little earlier tbh.

well they can't keep all those players on the team though. 18 roster spots plus Cissoko and Barlow :lol

[Mugen]

well they can't keep all those players on the team though. 18 roster spots plus Cissoko and Barlow :lol

Yeah good point, but i think they should still have at least some of those guys after the season starts.

[Mugen]

Heat tried him at PG and it really doesn't work.

Short term, plop him at the 1. Long-term put him at the 2 and slide Devin to the 3 when Keldon is shipped out tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Spurs have the following in the war chest:
-A ton of varied draft capital
-40+ mil in expirings
-A good young player on a solid contract (Keldon)

If there's a big time player available, they could literally outbid almost anybody tbh. I don't think they'll make a splash but man if they're somewhat decent by December, they should explore pushing those chips in a little earlier tbh.

James Harden is available!

[DPG21920]

You guys think Wesley gets waived at this point? Or are they just gonna waive pain. Seems unlikely since he’s actually a decent player. Better than Graham at least

I think we see a trade for sure. Could even see Graham/Doug used since they are higher end expiring deals, but Spurs still have some good vets post trade to help roster out.

Khem/Stevens are gone for sure. Cedi/Payne/Bullock/Doug/Graham 2-3 of them are gone too via trade

[DPG21920]

Worth noting the Spurs have sold their cap space for more stuff than Detroit (Harris) or OKC (Bertans, Oladipo) could.

Yup. First move for Cedi had me wince a little but seeing Spurs NOT penny pinch and not just doing a move to get to floor and stopping? LOVE what I’m seeing - they are being killers when it comes to turning over every value stone and asset management/optimization

[slick'81]

Yup. First move for Cedi had me wince a little but seeing Spurs NOT penny pinch and not just doing a move to get to floor and stopping? LOVE what I’m seeing - they are being killers when it comes to turning over every value stone and asset management/optimization


they have to with wemby

[timvp]

Good trade. Cam is a neutral-ish asset. Getting paid to take him on plus a second is good work.

[spurraider21]

I think we see a trade for sure. Could even see Graham/Doug used since they are higher end expiring deals, but Spurs still have some good vets post trade to help roster out.

Khem/Stevens are gone for sure. Cedi/Payne/Bullock/Doug/Graham 2-3 of them are gone too via trade
Being able to trade expiring vets for assets while also acquiring other expiring vets (and getting assets to do so) would be a hell of an offseason tbh

[CGD]

I think they’ll just end up waiving Cam along with Berch and Stevenson to get to 15. Don’t see him making the team honestly, plus spurs got some cash to offset some of his deal.

[Mr. Body]

I think they’ll just end up waiving Cam along with Berch and Stevenson to get to 15. Don’t see him making the team honestly, plus spurs got some cash to offset some of his deal.

If so, those are some really expensive SRPs they're acquiring.

[Spurs Brazil]

I don't think the Spurs will waive Payne. A 2nd round and cash just to eat that contract would be too expensive. I think they really like him or he'll be part of another trade.

[slick'81]

Rather have graham ,tbh

[DPG21920]

Being able to trade expiring vets for assets while also acquiring other expiring vets (and getting assets to do so) would be a hell of an offseason tbh

100% - just fantastic work so far. Let’s see what’s next.

[JPB]

I don't think the Spurs will waive Payne. A 2nd round and cash just to eat that contract would be too expensive. I think they really like him or he'll be part of another trade.

Any case, another smart move by Wright. Spurs (and ST tbh) are certainly not confident entering the season with a Tre/Graham/Wesley rotation at PG, probably the worst in the NBA, assuming Wesley even makes the A team. At worst, they either get a decent back up in Payne, at best he helps for a bigger trade.

[Mr. Body]

Any case, another smart move by Wright. Spurs (and ST tbh) are certainly not confident entering the season with a Tre/Graham/Wesley rotation at PG, probably the worst in the NBA, assuming Wesley even makes the A team. At worst, they either get a decent back up in Payne, at best he helps for a bigger trade.

Phoenix is now literally the worst PG set-up in the NBA, and the obsession of the "worst" whatever on this board is getting obnoxious. Tre Jones will be fine if we go that direction. Cam Payne, if he stays, will be fine. He was literally fine for the Suns.

[exstatic]

If so, those are some really expensive SRPs they're acquiring.

It’s payroll they needed to take in to stay above the floor.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

PHX also traded a 2025 pick swap for three SRPs. Interesting development.

Apparently it’s a 2026 swap. Orlando basically betting 3 SRPs that they’ll be better than both Phoenix and Washington in 2026. Bold move.

Wonder whether the SRP the Spurs are getting is out of those or the previous ones from the Memphis trade.

[Mr. Body]

It’s payroll they needed to take in to stay above the floor.

They could just sign Tre Jones. Instead they're waiting.

So, again, either they're buying expensive SRPs, which might be what they want, or something else happens.

[td4mvp2k]

good job spurs, cant relax with thunder also setting up for the future with lots of assets. also be hard to believe they aint trying to get something in return in the dame stakes.

[spurs10]

Good move again. Spurs are putting themselves in a good position with cash and expiring contract to make some moves down the road. Great summer so far.

[CGD]

If so, those are some really expensive SRPs they're acquiring.

6M minus the cash offset? Nah I think that’s consistent with what we’ve seen SRPs go for (3-4M range).

[spurraider21]

Once this trade becomes official the spurs only way to generate enough cap space for another similar trade would be to rescind Tre’s qualifying offer. Can then sign him at the end when it’s all said and done

[spurraider21]

The main reason I’m liking this move is because we’ve seen them be aggressive sending out SRPs like the bullock trade. The willingness to do that (and seeing the suns selling FRP swaps for second rounders in 2 separate trades) puts my mind at ease about stockpiling picks with diminishing returns.

[Mr. Body]

6M minus the cash offset? Nah I think that’s consistent with what we’ve seen SRPs go for (3-4M range).

So... 150-200% more expensive than what some teams buy the most expensive SRPs for? When we have a glut of SRPs already?

Not seeing your logic there.

[XenoThirteen]

Dumb question, but is there a locked period where the spurs will not be allowed to trade all these new players they’ve been acquiring to other teams?

[Mr. Body]

Dumb question, but is there a locked period where the spurs will not be allowed to trade all these new players they’ve been acquiring to other teams?

Wondering the same thing. Used to be a rule that you couldn't aggregate players you just traded for until a long period of time.

[Obstructed_View]

Used to be like 28 days but I think they have until October to cut the roster down.

[jhfenton]

Any case, another smart move by Wright. Spurs (and ST tbh) are certainly not confident entering the season with a Tre/Graham/Wesley rotation at PG, probably the worst in the NBA, assuming Wesley even makes the A team. At worst, they either get a decent back up in Payne, at best he helps for a bigger trade.

I doubt they'll cut Wesley, but I see him spending most of his playing time in Austin this season. Baptism by fire is fine if you're tanking anyway, but I don't see his role right now on a big squad that is trying to win more. And he needs the minutes.

[John B]

Nothing about Wesley. This trade is to meet payroll, and get a good backup PG in return. It’s possible he gets traded by trade deadline or not depends on his chemistry with the team. But the development of Wesley continues, I suspect plenty in Austin in the beginning and more with the main team after deadline.

[spurraider21]

Nothing about Wesley. This trade is to meet payroll, and get a good backup PG in return. It’s possible he gets traded by trade deadline or not depends on his chemistry with the team. But the development of Wesley continues, I suspect plenty in Austin in the beginning and more with the main team after deadline.
We already made payroll

[exstatic]

We already made payroll

For the moment. If we do a many for one, taking back a bit less, and then cutting Stevens, which we 100% will, that might drop us a bit.

[duncan2150]

Good moove

i like payne more than Graham, Wesley is not ready and the contract is expiring.

[MannyIsGod]

I think they’ll just end up waiving Cam along with Berch and Stevenson to get to 15. Don’t see him making the team honestly, plus spurs got some cash to offset some of his deal.
This makes no sense. He has value on this team and as a possible deadline trade.

[MannyIsGod]

Nothing about Wesley. This trade is to meet payroll, and get a good backup PG in return. It’s possible he gets traded by trade deadline or not depends on his chemistry with the team. But the development of Wesley continues, I suspect plenty in Austin in the beginning and more with the main team after deadline.

I mean it definitely says they don't think Wesley can be a contributor at the start of the season which is definitely something.

[jjspur]

Wonder how much cash they got. If its like 3 million or so, that would help if they decided to waive Payne.
Personally I'd rather they waive Wesley . I know its early but he has a very long long way to go. Payne is experienced and has only 1 year left on his contract.

[Extra Stout]

What about Payne, Osman, Bullock, and Birch for Kyle Lowry. The Spurs get a serviceable veteran point guard and leader, while the Heat get a bench. The salaries match.

[MultiTroll]

You Wesley sniffers need some decongestant.

Of course he is Austin material at best at this point.

Paynes contract -expiring to boot- is excellent.

[Mr. Body]

Sort of puts to bed the 'Spurs and Suns are on bad terms' thing, if it was still a thing.

[DPG21920]

Sort of puts to bed the 'Spurs and Suns are on bad terms' thing, if it was still a thing.

New owner…

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Dumb question, but is there a locked period where the spurs will not be allowed to trade all these new players they’ve been acquiring to other teams?
according to fanspo 2 months restriction

Cedi Osman cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 04, 2023.

Reggie Bullock cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 10, 2023.

[RC_Drunkford]

Duane Rankin: The #Suns are getting a protected 2nd round pick from the Spurs in return on the Cameron Payne trade, (https://hoopshype.com/social/) sources inform @azcentral. This includes a $6.5M trade exception.
1 hour ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/2198950/) – via Twitter DuaneRankin (https://twitter.com/DuaneRankin)

[DAF86]

So what's the trade? Payne and a 2nd for a 2nd. How does that work? :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

It’s a fake 2nd. Top 55 protected or something so it most likely won’t convert

[spurraider21]

So what's the trade? Payne and a 2nd for a 2nd. How does that work? :lol
Suns are sending us an actual SRP

by rule in any trade the spurs HAVE to give something. So they are sending a phony, probably top 55 protected SRP that will not likely convey or if it does will hold very little value

[Kurik]

So what's the trade? Payne and a 2nd for a 2nd. How does that work? :lol

Spurs had cap room to absorb Payne’s contract, Suns are paying a lot in luxury tax and keeping Payne wouldn’t make too much sense from a financial sense for them.

Spurs send a “fake” second round pick that will most likely be top 55 protected to make the trade work. Suns send Cash, Payne, and a second round pick to the Spurs.

[TD 21]

Osman, Bullock and Payne (and maybe Birch) would be enough to take on Lowry or Herro and are actually decent bench pieces for a contender. I‘m pretty sure we‘re about to send them to Miami

Osman is the one I could see sticking around through the trade deadline and maybe even beyond next season.

Lowry would probably request and be granted a buy out.



Short term, plop him at the 1. Long-term put him at the 2 and slide Devin to the 3 when Keldon is shipped out tbh.

Herro isn't Spurs material, can't defend PG's and sliding Vassell to SF is too scrawny a wing tandem. As this team becomes good again, positional size will be a key.

[scott]

according to fanspo 2 months restriction

Cedi Osman cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 04, 2023.

Reggie Bullock cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 10, 2023.

I have seen reporting to the contrary on this - that because the Spurs acquired these players with cap space, they are able to aggregate them immediately.

[Obstructed_View]

Nothing about Wesley. This trade is to meet payroll, and get a good backup PG in return. It’s possible he gets traded by trade deadline or not depends on his chemistry with the team. But the development of Wesley continues, I suspect plenty in Austin in the beginning and more with the main team after deadline.
Disagree. Spurs are already at the floor. They now have a legitimate roster crunch. They didn't take on yet another body just to gather in yet another second rounder. This is a signal that they don't have faith in the Wesley-as-a-point-gguard experiment to me.

[timvp]

Looks like the Spurs can still carve out another ~$9 million in cap space if they delay signing Tre Jones and waive Stevens. I guess it could be even higher if they can work out a contract buyout with one of these vets they acquired.

A nice thing about these trades the Spurs have made is they've acquired vets who actually fit reasonably well. Payne adds needed point guard depth. Bullock and Osman add three-point shooting and experience on the wings.

Great offseason so far, IMO.

The Bullock trade is the best of the bunch but the Osman and Payne deals are better than most salary dumps.

[baseline bum]

So what's the trade? Payne and a 2nd for a 2nd. How does that work? :lol

They effectively gave up a second round pick in exchange for being able to salary dump Payne on the Spurs.

[Degoat]

I like the move but something’s gotta be brewing right? Payne, Osman, Bullock are solid vets but something doesn’t add up especially with Barlow and sidy not on deals yet

[sfernald]

Disagree. Spurs are already at the floor. They now have a legitimate roster crunch. They didn't take on yet another body just to gather in yet another second rounder. This is a signal that they don't have faith in the Wesley-as-a-point-gguard experiment to me.

Yeah, notice they waited until they got a good look at Wesley in Summer League before making this trade. I would have done the same thing based on his performance.

Also, one thing I’ll say about Payne is I think he’s a little underrated here. He did score 31/5/5 in a playoff game against Denver this year. He can really run hot on the threes which is nice to have. And I think he had a nice 29 point playoff game the year before. He has some real playoff experience and has played pretty well when given the minutes.

[exstatic]

yeah, notice they waited until they got a good look at Wesley in Summer League before making this trade. I would have done the same thing based on his performance.

Also, one thing I’ll say about Payne is a think he’s a little underrated here. He did score 31/5/5 in a playoff game against Denver this year. He can really run hot on the threes which is nice to have. And I think he had a nice 29 point playoff game the year before. He has some real playoff experience and has played pretty well when given some minutes in them.

Correlation <> causality. Could have been something on Phoenix’s end. Or, They might have been haggling over this since the draft.

[sfernald]

Correlation <> causality. Could have been something on Phoenix’s end. Or, They might have been haggling over this since the draft.

Maybe not or maybe. I would personally lean towards causality after watching him struggle myself.

[exstatic]

Maybe not or maybe. I would personally lean towards causality after watching him struggle myself.

And you’re 100% entitled to hold whatever opinion on this matter. Could be that it was their only ending contract that would either fit in our space, or of a player they were willing to relinquish. Could be they couldn’t agree on the cash until now. I think there are a lot more reasons for the timing of this trade than cutting a FRP that has played 37 games.

[R. DeMurre]

I'd call it a fine baby steps move. I would've preferred Delon Wright, who looks like he's about to be traded to Charlotte-- he's 4" taller than Cam and a much better defender-- but I don't think it matters much in the big picture, where visions of a championship with Wembanyama are at least 4 years away anyway.

I wonder if deep down the Spurs are hoping for one more lottery pick before the Wemby era really kicks in, or if making the play in is an actual goal for year one.

[duncan2150]

I have seen reporting to the contrary on this - that because the Spurs acquired these players with cap space, they are able to aggregate them immediately.

Yes

https://twitter.com/YossiGozlan/status/1680612566698201088

[slick'81]

Good job spurs! You reached the floor and added another 2 to the war chest:bobo

[tbdog]

Gee, roster crunch. Birch has to go.

[sfernald]

And you’re 100% entitled to hold whatever opinion on this matter. Could be that it was their only ending contract that would either fit in our space, or of a player they were willing to relinquish. Could be they couldn’t agree on the cash until now. I think there are a lot more reasons for the timing of this trade than cutting a FRP that has played 37 games.


I never said he’d be cut. Just not ready for minutes this year. Maybe never. But definitely not this year. They need at a minimum some decent pg play for Wemby this year.

[mo7888]

according to fanspo 2 months restriction

Cedi Osman cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 04, 2023.

Reggie Bullock cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 10, 2023.

No restrictions since they were acquired into cap space...

[exstatic]

Yes

https://twitter.com/YossiGozlan/status/1680612566698201088

That would actually be unSpursy, to close the door on options before they have to.

[mo7888]

That would actually be unSpursy, to close the door on options before they have to.

Yes, there's zero cost for them to wait on resigning Tre..

[ace3g]

Someone online mentioned we now have Champagnie and CamPayne, lol

[baseline bum]

Yes, there's zero cost for them to wait on resigning Tre..

Tre wouldn't actually get a paycheck until October anyways right? So no harm in waiting?

[exstatic]

Like, they’ll cut Stevens before his guarantee date on the 17th, but they’ve known they would cut him, and won’t until they have to. Multiply that by the number of acquisitions we have made over the 15 Man roster limit. I’m honestly not sure Cedi and Payne aren’t eventual cuts.

[cd98]

Good trade. Spurs needed an experienced point guard to help the offense hum. They’ll be able to get the starter down the road, but they needed a placeholder this season to help see what they have in the others. I think Jones starts, but Payne is a good get as an expiring.

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaNBA/status/1680704785572413441

[itzsoweezee]

somebody tell me what exactly we are getting out of this? We get a 2nd and trade a 2nd? Is Cam Payne our new starting PG?

A backup point guard on a team without a backup point guard

[Degoat]

A backup point guard on a team without a backup point guard

What about Devonte Graham? Not saying he’s the answer but think I prefer him over Payne

[manufan10]

1680709839536680961

[WaywardTexan]

This explains our plan for the new downtown stadium

[itzsoweezee]

What about Devonte Graham? Not saying he’s the answer but think I prefer him over Payne

Is Graham a point guard? I haven’t watched him much, but he seemed to be just a shooter to me. Payne seems more of a true point. Payne a good, low investment, support term option

[callo1]

Good grab.

[XenoThirteen]

according to fanspo 2 months restriction

Cedi Osman cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 04, 2023.

Reggie Bullock cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 10, 2023.

This probably means our Spurs news will be slow for the next month. Expected… but damn. :lol

[JPB]

Someone online mentioned we now have Champagnie and CamPayne, lol

And "Dom" Barlow.

[jesterbobman]

Smart move overall. Cam is fine, and 48 minutes of competence at PG is helpful. Wesley isn't a competent option at the moment (I think it was a good gamble of a pick, getting able to touch the paint is valuable, but he's not there yet...and might not get there).

Still seems like with the number of depth veterans the Spurs have, they could get in on a trade in a 3 for 1 for an expiring that's a bigger deal. Lowry is the obvious fit, especially if it's after / part of a Miami-Dame trade: Bullock, in particular should have value to a contender as a 3&D wing. A Bullock / Stevens / Graham for Lowry package is probably decent for both sides.

[Obstructed_View]

This, paired with shutting down Wesley tonight does not bode well for Blake's future. Is he worth waiting to trade away or do you cut him now so he has a chance to sign on with someone else?

[tbdog]

This, paired with shutting down Wesley tonight does not bode well for Blake's future. Is he worth waiting to trade away or do you cut him now so he has a chance to sign on with someone else?

No rush. His value isn't exactly high.

[Obstructed_View]

No rush. His value isn't exactly high.
Agree, but if he doesn't look to be in their plans they might move now just to do him a solid.

[Mr. Body]

Guys, Blake Wesley isn't getting cut because of Summer League.

Guys, they didn't trade for Cam Payne because of Summer League.

[CGD]

This makes no sense. He has value on this team and as a possible deadline trade.

Unless they do a consolidation trade here soon, one of Bullock, Osman, and Payne probably won’t make the team. Simple roster crunch math. I doubt they waive Mamu and Champagne having just cut deals with them, and Bassey is at a position of need.

[Marcus Bryant]

Looks like a good use of cap space.

[CGD]

So... 150-200% more expensive than what some teams buy the most expensive SRPs for? When we have a glut of SRPs already?

Not seeing your logic there.

Fair, but I think it turns on the cash offset. After the SRP market shifted in February, 3-4M is not an unreasonable cost for one of those picks anymore. It basically took 4 SRP for NOLA to get off of 12M of Devonte Graham.

This piece is illuminating: https://sports.yahoo.com/the-rise-of-second-round-picks-how-the-once-undervalued-draft-assets-are-shaping-a-new-market-landscape-155530243.html

[Obstructed_View]

Guys, Blake Wesley isn't getting cut because of Summer League.

Guys, they didn't trade for Cam Payne because of Summer League.

Yeah they just wanted that extra second round pick to add another player when their roster was already overcrowded. :lol

[spurraider21]

Guys, Blake Wesley isn't getting cut because of Summer League.

Guys, they didn't trade for Cam Payne because of Summer League.
and yet they will sign Barlow because of summer league?

to quote cutewizard:

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Mr. Body]

and yet they will sign Barlow because of summer league?

to quote cutewizard:

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

They already were signing Barlow. Are you okay?

[Mr. Body]

Yeah they just wanted that extra second round pick to add another player when their roster was already overcrowded. :lol

Yes, I'm sure Friday afternoon all the Spurs brass got together and said: "If Blake doesn't impress tonight, fuck it, we cut him. We just cut him straightaway."

Yes, that makes sense.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs will most likely waive Birch and Stevenson. That leaves them with 16 players and they still have to sign Cissoko cause of his buy out. Meaning 2 guys either get cut or 3 players get traded for 1.

[Obstructed_View]

Yes, I'm sure Friday afternoon all the Spurs brass got together and said: "If Blake doesn't impress tonight, fuck it, we cut him. We just cut him straightaway."

Yes, that makes sense.
I didn't say that. I said they might release him if they thought it would help him now to sign on with another team.

And Blake has been utter shit all summer league, so they didn't decide this in one day.

[Spurs9]

Honestly really like Payne, I got a few of his autograph cards tbh.

[tbdog]

What is our roster looking like now? Is it 15 players plus 3 two ways?

[spurraider21]

Spurs will most likely waive Birch and Stevenson. That leaves them with 16 players and they still have to sign Cissoko cause of his buy out. Meaning 2 guys either get cut or 3 players get traded for 1.
Also depends if Barlow will agree to a 2 way

[Kurik]

The Spurs can always decide on the best mix of point guards to keep for the season throughout training camp and the pre-season. I don’t think anyone should consider themselves a lock when it comes to our PGs besides Tre.

[Mr. Body]

I didn't say that. I said they might release him if they thought it would help him now to sign on with another team.

And Blake has been utter shit all summer league, so they didn't decide this in one day.

You think they're going to cut him so he can sign somewhere else? You think they're going to go with, like, Devonte Graham this year instead of continuing with Wesley? Who have they cut while they were still developing? I can think of only one, and it was his attitude and quit that cut him.

I don't get this line of thinking whatsoever. Why would they cut someone at the end of Summer League just because he hasn't yet turned a corner? It's senseless.

[tbdog]

If that's the case, three of Longford, Dieng, Birch or Stevens gets waived. Siddy and rice two ways.

[Kurik]

If that's the case, three of Longford, Dieng, Birch or Stevens gets waived. Siddy and rice two ways.

Because of Sidy’s buyout status with his EU team he can’t be signed to a two-way unfortunately.

[Spurs9]

Bright Wright is a genius tbh, all of his moves have been very calculated for the future. Maintaining the max flexibility with the contracts and picks.

[Mr. Body]

If that's the case, three of Longford, Dieng, Birch or Stevens gets waived. Siddy and rice two ways.

Langford and Dieng are already gone. I do think Birch and Stevens are gone -- tomorrow for Stevens. Birch might be around a bit long as they keep looking for deals.

[BacktoBasics]

You think they're going to cut him so he can sign somewhere else? You think they're going to go with, like, Devonte Graham this year instead of continuing with Wesley? Who have they cut while they were still developing? I can think of only one, and it was his attitude and quit that cut him.

I don't get this line of thinking whatsoever. Why would they cut someone at the end of Summer League just because he hasn't yet turned a corner? It's senseless.

It’s fucking annoying is what it is. Got members here wanting to cut Branham too. Half thought after Wembys first game that we’d have a handful of dumbass members suggest he be cut because Barlow looks good.

[CGD]

according to fanspo 2 months restriction

Cedi Osman cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 04, 2023.

Reggie Bullock cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 10, 2023.

Is this right? I’ve seen elsewhere that when a player is acquired with capspace (as with all our moves so far) that the player can instantly be re-routed and aggregated?

[NickiRasgo]

Didn't Patty was traded 3x in 1 week? What's the rule on that?

[CGD]

It’s fucking annoying is what it is. Got members here wanting to cut Branham too. Half thought after Wembys first game that we’d have a handful of dumbass members suggest he be cut because Barlow looks good.

Yeah just that’s just dumb. They have like 3 year developmental plans for these guys, and invested heavily in seeing those through.

It’s part of the reason why I think Payne ultimately gets cut tbh.

[dbestpro]

Can Payne had quite a few good games when Paul went down for the Suns. I think he is a solid backup PG and provides needed playmaker skills.

[Obstructed_View]

Waiting for an example of a single person saying to cut Branham.

[slick'81]

Can Payne had quite a few good games when Paul went down for the Suns. I think he is a solid backup PG and provides needed playmaker skills.

dare we say he unseats tre?!

[daslicer]

Good trade Cam is a solid player and is a veteran. Always good to have veterans on a very young team.

[Chinook]

Waiting for an example of a single person saying to cut Branham.

Closest I can think of was me a couple of times. The first time, I wondered if the team could look to trade Branham if they ended up drafting another SG with their first pick (this was pre-lotto if that wasn't obvious) and could get a second lotto pick after the trade. Second was me saying that Reaves was way better than Branham and that Malaki would have to improve his metrics substantially in order to reach the same level of performance. No, neither of those is suggesting cutting him, but it's that sentiment that Branham hasn't shown himself to be a core prospect which I think Basics is exaggerating to make his point. And yes, a lot of posters do get stuck in the idea that talking about trading a guy is the same as wanting to cut him. It's a bad assumption, but it's pretty normal on forums.

As far as Body is saying, I don't think the Spurs are going to cut Wesley because of summer league. I do think they were interested in bringing in a vet PG in large part because of summer league. I think if Wesley had come in and looked really good, especially in terms of his intangibles, the Spurs would have been fine running with the group they had already. But he doesn't look like a rotation player. They could use another guard, if only in camp to push guys. As I've said multiple times, you want to actually have real obstacles for guys to overcome. The tanking Spurs with no star prospects could afford to play a bunch of guys with horrible metrics but a lot of chutzpah. The team can't afford to do that now. They will almost certainly cut some first-round picks as time goes on, even some who don't look completely hopeless. If it's not this year, it is likely to be next year. Wesley might survive camp, and if he plays well, he'll definitely survive. But he could play bad enough that he can't beat out guys who frankly deserve it more than him (in that scenario).

Jones/Payne/Graham -- I really like that camp battle. All three have a chance to win the starting job, and any of the three might end up out of the rotation (although Jones would be the most surprising)

Vassell/Branham/Champangie -- Unless something happen and Devin is traded, he should be the starter. But the competition for minutes behind him should be fierce. With Champ being able to play the three and Malaki the one, there's a chance both make the rotation. But still, it could be intense.

Johnson/McDermott/Bullock --Keldon might be the sixth man if Sochan beats him out, but I'm not assuming the Spurs go into camp with that as their plan. McDermott and Bullock are interchangeable. Maybe one or both is traded this summer. If not, Doug has the clear advantage.

Wembanyama/Sochan/Osman/Mamukelashvili -- The battle here is obviously only for that third spot, but I do think the competition is open. While Mamu might slide to the five and Cedi to the three, I think it would be hard to see both make the roster

Collins/Bassey/Barlow -- I don't think Collins is locked in despite the reporting. Pop saying Zach was their starter before winning the lotto doesn't mean anything. He'll get the first crack at it, but this has to be who fits best with Wemby. This could be Collins, but Barlow has a head start in chemistry. Assuming Zach starts, the competition for backup center should be intense.

Rice -- two way
Cissoko -- limbo but could take Bullock's spot if the Spurs like him enough
Birch/Stevens -- Cut

So that leaves Wesley on the bubble, even with most of the fan trimmed away. Yes, Osman and Bullock could be both be cut, and Cissoko could have to go back to Europe. But we don't know that for sure. The Spurs will have two or three firsts with other young PG prospects like James in next year's draft. They don't have to stayed married to Wesley. They could cut him, hope he makes it past waivers, then lock him into a two-way deal. Hell, they might pick up his option if he agrees to do that, though that' would be bad cap management. Blake on a two-way would be 100 percent worth keeping. Wesley on the 15 is another matter. I'd say it's likely he stays, but there are a bunch of scenario where he doesn't.

Also, timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8), making a more comprehensive version of this post in a month or two as part of a series of pre-camp articles seems like a really cool idea. I imagine you were already thinking along these lines. But if this sparks the idea, feel free to run with it.

[spurraider21]

It’s fucking annoying is what it is. Got members here wanting to cut Branham too. Half thought after Wembys first game that we’d have a handful of dumbass members suggest he be cut because Barlow looks good.
Nobody here has suggested waiving branham

[daslicer]

It’s fucking annoying is what it is. Got members here wanting to cut Branham too. Half thought after Wembys first game that we’d have a handful of dumbass members suggest he be cut because Barlow looks good.

Spurstalk has always been like this. It's filled with bipolar idiots who are prisoners of the moment. The only positive of sucking the last few years is that those bipolar idiots weren't around but now they have returned in full force with the Spurs drafting Wemby.

[Ariel]

Spurstalk has always been like this. It's filled with bipolar idiots who are prisoners of the moment. The only positive of sucking the last few years is that those bipolar idiots weren't around but now they have returned in full force with the Spurs drafting Wemby.
Worst take I've ever read. I love it.

[Ariel]

Closest I can think of was me a couple of times. The first time, I wondered if the team could look to trade Branham if they ended up drafting another SG with their first pick (this was pre-lotto if that wasn't obvious) and could get a second lotto pick after the trade. Second was me saying that Reaves was way better than Branham and that Malaki would have to improve his metrics substantially in order to reach the same level of performance. No, neither of those is suggesting cutting him, but it's that sentiment that Branham hasn't shown himself to be a core prospect which I think Basics is exaggerating to make his point. And yes, a lot of posters do get stuck in the idea that talking about trading a guy is the same as wanting to cut him. It's a bad assumption, but it's pretty normal on forums.

As far as Body is saying, I don't think the Spurs are going to cut Wesley because of summer league. I do think they were interested in bringing in a vet PG in large part because of summer league. I think if Wesley had come in and looked really good, especially in terms of his intangibles, the Spurs would have been fine running with the group they had already. But he doesn't look like a rotation player. They could use another guard, if only in camp to push guys. As I've said multiple times, you want to actually have real obstacles for guys to overcome. The tanking Spurs with no star prospects could afford to play a bunch of guys with horrible metrics but a lot of chutzpah. The team can't afford to do that now. They will almost certainly cut some first-round picks as time goes on, even some who don't look completely hopeless. If it's not this year, it is likely to be next year. Wesley might survive camp, and if he plays well, he'll definitely survive. But he could play bad enough that he can't beat out guys who frankly deserve it more than him (in that scenario).

Jones/Payne/Graham -- I really like that camp battle. All three have a chance to win the starting job, and any of the three might end up out of the rotation (although Jones would be the most surprising)

Vassell/Branham/Champangie -- Unless something happen and Devin is traded, he should be the starter. But the competition for minutes behind him should be fierce. With Champ being able to play the three and Malaki the one, there's a chance both make the rotation. But still, it could be intense.

Johnson/McDermott/Bullock --Keldon might be the sixth man if Sochan beats him out, but I'm not assuming the Spurs go into camp with that as their plan. McDermott and Bullock are interchangeable. Maybe one or both is traded this summer. If not, Doug has the clear advantage.

Wembanyama/Sochan/Osman/Mamukelashvili -- The battle here is obviously only for that third spot, but I do think the competition is open. While Mamu might slide to the five and Cedi to the three, I think it would be hard to see both make the roster

Collins/Bassey/Barlow -- I don't think Collins is locked in despite the reporting. Pop saying Zach was their starter before winning the lotto doesn't mean anything. He'll get the first crack at it, but this has to be who fits best with Wemby. This could be Collins, but Barlow has a head start in chemistry. Assuming Zach starts, the competition for backup center should be intense.

Rice -- two way
Cissoko -- limbo but could take Bullock's spot if the Spurs like him enough
Birch/Stevens -- Cut

So that leaves Wesley on the bubble, even with most of the fan trimmed away. Yes, Osman and Bullock could be both be cut, and Cissoko could have to go back to Europe. But we don't know that for sure. The Spurs will have two or three firsts with other young PG prospects like James in next year's draft. They don't have to stayed married to Wesley. They could cut him, hope he makes it past waivers, then lock him into a two-way deal. Hell, they might pick up his option if he agrees to do that, though that' would be bad cap management. Blake on a two-way would be 100 percent worth keeping. Wesley on the 15 is another matter. I'd say it's likely he stays, but there are a bunch of scenario where he doesn't.

Also, timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8), making a more comprehensive version of this post in a month or two as part of a series of pre-camp articles seems like a really cool idea. I imagine you were already thinking along these lines. But if this sparks the idea, feel free to run with it.
I'm higher on Branham than you're, but overall I pretty much agree with your overview of the roster, there's definitely something happening sooner or later even assuming Stevens and Birch are cut (pretty much a given). I'd like to see Wesley another year on the G-League before making a decision on him, but it's getting crowded and I wonder if he's as safe as I assumed not too long ago.

[T Park]

Looks like the Spurs can still carve out another ~$9 million in cap space if they delay signing Tre Jones and waive Stevens. I guess it could be even higher if they can work out a contract buyout with one of these vets they acquired.

A nice thing about these trades the Spurs have made is they've acquired vets who actually fit reasonably well. Payne adds needed point guard depth. Bullock and Osman add three-point shooting and experience on the wings.

Great offseason so far, IMO.

The Bullock trade is the best of the bunch but the Osman and Payne deals are better than most salary dumps.


believe I also read if they renounce Dieng's cap hold etc it goes up too

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Is this right? I’ve seen elsewhere that when a player is acquired with capspace (as with all our moves so far) that the player can instantly be re-routed and aggregated?
maybe you're right

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I have seen reporting to the contrary on this - that because the Spurs acquired these players with cap space, they are able to aggregate them immediately.

No restrictions since they were acquired into cap space...
ok
ty

[tbdog]

Realistically, what player could Spurs get in a package for some of these contacts, considering the roster crunch.

Capela?
Fournier?
Larry Nance?
Causo?
Conley?
Hunter?

[kobyz]

Should have gone after Reaves instead of all those moves

[jesterbobman]

Closest I can think of was me a couple of times. The first time, I wondered if the team could look to trade Branham if they ended up drafting another SG with their first pick (this was pre-lotto if that wasn't obvious) and could get a second lotto pick after the trade. Second was me saying that Reaves was way better than Branham and that Malaki would have to improve his metrics substantially in order to reach the same level of performance. No, neither of those is suggesting cutting him, but it's that sentiment that Branham hasn't shown himself to be a core prospect which I think Basics is exaggerating to make his point. And yes, a lot of posters do get stuck in the idea that talking about trading a guy is the same as wanting to cut him. It's a bad assumption, but it's pretty normal on forums.

As far as Body is saying, I don't think the Spurs are going to cut Wesley because of summer league. I do think they were interested in bringing in a vet PG in large part because of summer league. I think if Wesley had come in and looked really good, especially in terms of his intangibles, the Spurs would have been fine running with the group they had already. But he doesn't look like a rotation player. They could use another guard, if only in camp to push guys. As I've said multiple times, you want to actually have real obstacles for guys to overcome. The tanking Spurs with no star prospects could afford to play a bunch of guys with horrible metrics but a lot of chutzpah. The team can't afford to do that now. They will almost certainly cut some first-round picks as time goes on, even some who don't look completely hopeless. If it's not this year, it is likely to be next year. Wesley might survive camp, and if he plays well, he'll definitely survive. But he could play bad enough that he can't beat out guys who frankly deserve it more than him (in that scenario).

Jones/Payne/Graham -- I really like that camp battle. All three have a chance to win the starting job, and any of the three might end up out of the rotation (although Jones would be the most surprising)

Vassell/Branham/Champangie -- Unless something happen and Devin is traded, he should be the starter. But the competition for minutes behind him should be fierce. With Champ being able to play the three and Malaki the one, there's a chance both make the rotation. But still, it could be intense.

Johnson/McDermott/Bullock --Keldon might be the sixth man if Sochan beats him out, but I'm not assuming the Spurs go into camp with that as their plan. McDermott and Bullock are interchangeable. Maybe one or both is traded this summer. If not, Doug has the clear advantage.

Wembanyama/Sochan/Osman/Mamukelashvili -- The battle here is obviously only for that third spot, but I do think the competition is open. While Mamu might slide to the five and Cedi to the three, I think it would be hard to see both make the roster

Collins/Bassey/Barlow -- I don't think Collins is locked in despite the reporting. Pop saying Zach was their starter before winning the lotto doesn't mean anything. He'll get the first crack at it, but this has to be who fits best with Wemby. This could be Collins, but Barlow has a head start in chemistry. Assuming Zach starts, the competition for backup center should be intense.

Rice -- two way
Cissoko -- limbo but could take Bullock's spot if the Spurs like him enough
Birch/Stevens -- Cut

So that leaves Wesley on the bubble, even with most of the fan trimmed away. Yes, Osman and Bullock could be both be cut, and Cissoko could have to go back to Europe. But we don't know that for sure. The Spurs will have two or three firsts with other young PG prospects like James in next year's draft. They don't have to stayed married to Wesley. They could cut him, hope he makes it past waivers, then lock him into a two-way deal. Hell, they might pick up his option if he agrees to do that, though that' would be bad cap management. Blake on a two-way would be 100 percent worth keeping. Wesley on the 15 is another matter. I'd say it's likely he stays, but there are a bunch of scenario where he doesn't.

Also, timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8), making a more comprehensive version of this post in a month or two as part of a series of pre-camp articles seems like a really cool idea. I imagine you were already thinking along these lines. But if this sparks the idea, feel free to run with it.

I think this is a pretty decent summary of where the Roster is, and looks like going into training camp.

The reality of cutting picks is pretty clear. The job of roster construction is to get good players, and try not to be too committed to how you got them - For instance, the Spurs were eventually smart in going with Danny Green over James Anderson (injury happened), but not being stuck with whoever you drafted, and just going with the best of similar position / age choices is good practice. I think we could cut Blake, but the pick was still decent as a sensible gamble on tools and rim pressure.

[Mr. Body]

Should have gone after Reaves instead of all those moves

Then we'd just be sitting here with our dick in our hand.

[spursparker9]

1680709839536680961

He can be the Nick Van Exel role

[Dhbsr555]

Not a good sign for Wesley.
Wesley might be cut

[mo7888]

Should have gone after Reaves instead of all those moves

I'm not so sure.. it's pretty close to a wash as it stands, but i expect a consolidation trade that will make this path more desirable..

[duncan2150]

Wesley will not be cut after only one year with the ball club

birch, stevens are gone

then one of payne or graham will be traded or cut ( i guess graham, payne looks more solid as a back up pg), and also one of osman, bullock imo ( i guess osman) will be cut or trade

Spurs could still open near to 10 Mo of cap space so a lot of possibilities to finish the offseason

[CorrectCrusader]

Payne will get cut long before Wesley does.

[exstatic]

Sammich wasn’t even cut until after his second season, and because of a shit attitude, not because of his mid skill set. If he gets two seasons, I think Blake will, too, at a minimum.

[mo7888]

I agree with most here that we aren't cutting Wesley. If he's not on the roster, it'll be because he's included in a consolidation trade, but even that, I'd say, is unlikely..

[BacktoBasics]

Nobody here has suggested waiving branhamSpurs Homer did and I've seen other members suggest it as well.

[BacktoBasics]

Waiting for an example of a single person saying to cut Branham.


Nobody here has suggested waiving branham

Here you go. Now if you want me to dig up another example we'll need to place a wager on it. There have been a few members suggest that we waive Branham.


At this point im good waiving both branham and wesley and just put cidy in at pg

cant be any worse tbh

[spurraider21]

Spurs Homer did and I've seen other members suggest it as well.
I’ve had spurs homer on ignore for a few years now :lol

my bad

[kobyz]

Then we'd just be sitting here with our dick in our hand.

Why? In your scenario that Lakers match we still have money to to do those moves while facking the Lakers future with all the taxes they pay

[exstatic]

Why? In your scenario that Lakers match we still have money to to do those moves while facking the Lakers future with all the taxes they pay

We weren't the only team with cap room at the beginning of the FA period, and fucking with the Lakers may have cost us one or more of those deals, maybe the Dallas swap, as we twist in the wind waiting for the inevitable match on July 6th.

[kobyz]

We weren't the only team with cap room at the beginning of the FA period, and fucking with the Lakers may have cost us one or more of those deals, maybe the Dallas swap, as we twist in the wind waiting for the inevitable match on July 6th.

at that time we were the only team with cap space for Bullock, and even if not, Spurs could ask those team to wait one day to see if Lakers match...

[BacktoBasics]

at that time we were the only team with cap space for Bullock, and even if not, Spurs could ask those team to wait one day to see if Lakers match...

I'd rather not assume that the Lakers would call our bluff. The FO very specifically went into the offseason with the belief that they wanted to maintain financial flexibility and not make costly mistakes that would tie up our cap for years to come. Although I like Reaves he's far from a proven player with only one decent season and one great playoff run under his belt. He was good but not great with all those Laker injuries and it wasn't until the postseason that he punched above into another level.

We would be stupid to risk tying up 100+ million dollars hoping that he can be better than last season with less talent around him.

Figuring out what we have around Wemby and continuing to make pragmatic moves for at least his rookie season is just smart GMing. Blowing our wad on a guy who averaged 13ppg takes some faith when there's no good reason to take the risk. We probably have the most flexibility of any team in the league right now. We're doing the right thing in preserving that for the right move.

[kobyz]

I'd rather not assume that the Lakers would call our bluff. The FO very specifically went into the offseason with the belief that they wanted to maintain financial flexibility and not make costly mistakes that would tie up our cap for years to come. Although I like Reaves he's far from a proven player with only one decent season and one great playoff run under his belt. He was good but not great with all those Laker injuries and it wasn't until the postseason that he punched above into another level.

We would be stupid to risk tying up 100+ million dollars hoping that he can be better than last season with less talent around him.

Figuring out what we have around Wemby and continuing to make pragmatic moves for at least his rookie season is just smart GMing. Blowing our wad on a guy who averaged 13ppg takes some faith when there's no good reason to take the risk. We probably have the most flexibility of any team in the league right now. We're doing the right thing in preserving that for the right move.

we could offer Reaves a Paul Reed like contract with 1 year guaranteed with 2 years becoming guaranteed if his team making the second round

[BacktoBasics]

we could offer Reaves a Paul Reed like contract with 1 year guaranteed with 2 years becoming guaranteed if his team making the second round

There would have been no motivation for him to sign that. The 4 year 52 million was already on the table from LA.

Fucking with teams just to fuck with teams is childish with no returnable value for the effort unless its a good faith offer.

We did the right thing.

[Chinook]

Sammich wasn’t even cut until after his second season, and because of a shit attitude, not because of his mid skill set. If he gets two seasons, I think Blake will, too, at a minimum.

Completely different situations. Samanic was one of a handful of young players on the roster. The team could afford to keep him. Wesley is in a roster crunch. A lot of the solutions people keep offering as easy fixes don't cut it. The Spurs will have to cut into the meat this year, and they will continue to have to do so for likely a few more years. The Spurs should be trying to reward the guys who perform well and putting the best team around Wembanyama, not trying to cling to prospects. If it's close, yes I think they go with Wesley. But if he's clearly not one of the 15-best players on the team, it would be a disservice to keep him. They cut Livio during the first camp despite having much less young talent and needing someone at his position. They cut Anderson after his first year when it was clear they couldn't wait for him to get healthy. Yes, those guys had their own special circumstances. But Wesley has his own too. I don't see any way he doesn't have to compete for his job. I see a tons of ways he can win that spot, but he should have to win it.

[Bruno]

Spurs obviously did that trade for the second round pick but I wonder if they will now try to trade Devonte' Graham for an expiring.
Graham 2024-2025 contract is only $2.85M guaranteed so it isn't a big deal but it looks like Brian Wright is trying to optimize everything.

[CGD]

Spurs obviously did that trade for the second round pick but I wonder if they will now try to trade Devonte' Graham for an expiring.
Graham 2024-2025 contract is only $2.85M guaranteed so it isn't a big deal but it looks like Brian Wright is trying to optimize everything.

I keep saying the trade hiding in plain sight is for Lonzo Ball + a CHI FRP.
Dump 3 of our expirings there (including Graham) and eat ~18M next year.
Likely the Spurs get the disabled player exception too.

[kobyz]

There would have been no motivation for him to sign that. The 4 year 52 million was already on the table from LA.

Fucking with teams just to fuck with teams is childish with no returnable value for the effort unless its a good faith offer.

We did the right thing.

No, it's no childish, it's a legitimate basketball decision, and it's not just to hurt a rival team, signing Reaves to something 80m 4y is a fantastic value that you wouldn't get close to using the cap space you wish to save for next year weak free agence class

[kobyz]

I keep saying the trade hiding in plain sight is for Lonzo Ball + a CHI FRP.
Dump 3 of our expirings there (including Graham) and eat ~18M next year.
Likely the Spurs get the disabled player exception too.

Could CHI trade Ball if they using the disabled player exception?

[Mr. Body]

I keep saying the trade hiding in plain sight is for Lonzo Ball + a CHI FRP.
Dump 3 of our expirings there (including Graham) and eat ~18M next year.
Likely the Spurs get the disabled player exception too.

I don't see why the Bulls do this and the Spurs seem pretty clear they don't want to take on salary beyond this next season.

[BacktoBasics]

No, it's no childish, it's a legitimate basketball decision, and it's not just to hurt a rival team, signing Reaves to something 80m 4y is a fantastic value that you wouldn't get close to using the cap space you wish to save for next year weak free agence class

Whether that’s a “value” is yet to be seen. He still needs to take a jump this season to reach that value. 80 million is much more digestible than 100 million +. I think there’s a good chance they match 80 million.

[CGD]

Could CHI trade Ball if they using the disabled player exception?

Not sure, but there were rumblings of waiving and stretching him so I’m sure they’re exploring options for him. I’m suspect anymore those would impact their use of that exception going forward.

[CGD]

I don't see why the Bulls do this and the Spurs seem pretty clear they don't want to take on salary beyond this next season.

They get off 20M next year? They’re gonna be paying a lot of money to the shitty trio of DDR, Vuc, and Levine.

Re Spurs I hear that, but when the next year’s free agency class is trash the whole point of expirings then is that by the next trade deadline you leverage those contracts to take back shittier salaries with money into the following year for assets (see Graham; Berch). I see this as a trade deadline type of deal, but given the roster crunch it could be a “two birds one stone” type of thing.

[kobyz]

Whether that’s a “value” is yet to be seen. He still needs to take a jump this season to reach that value. 80 million is much more digestible than 100 million +. I think there’s a good chance they match 80 million.

You okay with them matching and making them pay more and putting them in tougher tax situation...
Spurs messed up this situation, admit it

[Obstructed_View]

Wesley might be cut

I suggested he might be in another thread, but I think the only way that happens is if he requests it or the Spurs think it would help Wes get to another team. Otherwise, as others have said, there’s plenty of time.

[spurraider21]

I don't see why the Bulls do this and the Spurs seem pretty clear they don't want to take on salary beyond this next season.
get off ball's money a year early and get a couple of actually playable players for a year. presumably with vucevic, drozan, lavine, etc, they are still looking to win games

as it stands the earliest pick they can trade is 2029 though

[BacktoBasics]

You okay with them matching and making them pay more and putting them in tougher tax situation...
Spurs messed up this situation, admit it

No I’m not okay with that. There’s no evidence or proof that it would even hurt them in the long run. They could up using that large contract to attract a bigger player. Then you helped them rather than hurt them. What you’re suggesting is just childish stupidity.

I prefer we operate above water and in good faith. Fucking over the competition that deliberately isn’t a win and doesn’t do anything to further our franchise. I understand that ethics are nothing compared to winning but I don’t see any real tangible value for egregiously attempting to dick teams over.

I’ve always found greater success in concentrating on myself and my own business rather than put effort into fucking someone else over.

[kobyz]

No I’m not okay with that. There’s no evidence or proof that it would even hurt them in the long run. They could up using that large contract to attract a bigger player. Then you helped them rather than hurt them. What you’re suggesting is just childish stupidity.

I prefer we operate above water and in good faith. Fucking over the competition that deliberately isn’t a win and doesn’t do anything to further our franchise. I understand that ethics are nothing compared to winning but I don’t see any real tangible value for egregiously attempting to dick teams over.

I’ve always found greater success in concentrating on myself and my own business rather than put effort into fucking someone else over.

Thinking it's better having Reaves at bigger contract rather than cheap contract make no sense, stop being front office homer

[spurraider21]

No I’m not okay with that. There’s no evidence or proof that it would even hurt them in the long run. They could up using that large contract to attract a bigger player. Then you helped them rather than hurt them. What you’re suggesting is just childish stupidity.

I prefer we operate above water and in good faith. Fucking over the competition that deliberately isn’t a win and doesn’t do anything to further our franchise. I understand that ethics are nothing compared to winning but I don’t see any real tangible value for egregiously attempting to dick teams over.

I’ve always found greater success in concentrating on myself and my own business rather than put effort into fucking someone else over.
i think its really bizarre to characterize signing a RFA to an offer sheet as operating in bad faith

"maybe they wanted to sign him for more than they did" is also indeed a take

[BacktoBasics]

Thinking it's better having Reaves at bigger contract rather than cheap contract make no sense, stop being front office homer

I’m not being homer. I’m just being practical. I never said it was “better”. I gave you an example to illustrate that your idiotic argument about fucking another team over doesn’t live in a vacuum.

Tossing around 80-100 million simply to be a dick isn’t good GMing. It’s being a spiteful shortsighted child.

[BacktoBasics]

i think its really bizarre to characterize signing a RFA to an offer sheet as operating in bad faith

"maybe they wanted to sign him for more than they did" is also indeed a take
He suggested doing it simply to fuck with another team. First off he’s not worth 80 to 100 million. His value was exactly what the lakers gave him.

You make an offer to a RFA if you intend to sign him. Offering simply to offer in the hopes that it might fuck another franchise over is bad faith business.

Clearly our FO wasn’t interested in offering 80-100 million on the off chance they’d make us eat it. Because we already knew that his 52 million was on the table. Pretty safe to assume that anywhere up to maybe 75 million and they’ll match.

It would have been a waste of time.

[PrimeMinister]

we're still wondering why the FO didn't throw 100 million at a role player that had a good playoff run next to one of the best players of all time?

[Mr. Body]

we're still wondering why the FO didn't throw 100 million at a role player that had a good playoff run next to one of the best players of all time?

I think it's just deep sexual attraction to Arkansas Hillbilly, which is fine. But just take him on a date, you know?

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Completely different situations. Samanic was one of a handful of young players on the roster. The team could afford to keep him. Wesley is in a roster crunch. A lot of the solutions people keep offering as easy fixes don't cut it. The Spurs will have to cut into the meat this year, and they will continue to have to do so for likely a few more years. The Spurs should be trying to reward the guys who perform well and putting the best team around Wembanyama, not trying to cling to prospects. If it's close, yes I think they go with Wesley. But if he's clearly not one of the 15-best players on the team, it would be a disservice to keep him. They cut Livio during the first camp despite having much less young talent and needing someone at his position. They cut Anderson after his first year when it was clear they couldn't wait for him to get healthy. Yes, those guys had their own special circumstances. But Wesley has his own too. I don't see any way he doesn't have to compete for his job. I see a tons of ways he can win that spot, but he should have to win it.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but Wesley was a project to begin with and he just turned 20 while spending a good portion of his rookie season injured. It just seems like it's way too soon to pull the plug on him. Maybe in an another year if he doesn't improve and they've got even more incoming young talent? Sure, but this isn't Lonnie after year 4. And as much as it's about putting the best team around Wemby right now, it's more about putting the best team around him in 3 years. The last thing this franchise is going to do -- obviously, based on what they've done this summer -- is sacrifice anything long term for short term results. Unless there is something we don't know about Wesley (e.g., attitude or work ethic issues), I would be stunned if he weren't on the 15.

[kobyz]

I’m not being homer. I’m just being practical. I never said it was “better”. I gave you an example to illustrate that your idiotic argument about fucking another team over doesn’t live in a vacuum.

Tossing around 80-100 million simply to be a dick isn’t good GMing. It’s being a spiteful shortsighted child.

It's not tossing around, bigger and longer Jeff Hornesek absolutely worth that price, especially when the cap room gonna rise the coming years and while looking at the trash free agence class next year

[Spurs Homer]

Here you go. Now if you want me to dig up another example we'll need to place a wager on it. There have been a few members suggest that we waive Branham.

man, you sure got triggered…

i was enjoying watching wemby and enjoying some cold ones and branham and wesley were bricking the game away and i got fed up with them and you STILL are crying about that?

since when did spurstalk posters develop such thin skin?

wesley- i wont deny it - he needs to go - not an nba player

branham - i didnt like him much last year and hoping he improved - a LOT - but i would not hate it if both were packaged in a trade deal to get a good NBA point guard

but not sure why you are so triggered over two unproven scrubs and not sure why YOU think you can dictate others postings and whether YOUR expert opinion has been tarnished by a strangers postings not directed at you….

grow a pair and chill buddy!

[BacktoBasics]

It's not tossing around, bigger and longer Jeff Hornesek absolutely worth that price, especially when the cap room gonna rise the coming years and while looking at the trash free agence class next year

If he improves this season then I’ll agree with you. Took Hornacek like 6 years to make an all star team and he was averaging 20ppg. Reaves only averaged 13ppg with injuries to scoring players. He had 1 good post season.

Again you’re not looking at the whole picture.

Thank god we didn’t offer him 100 million and be stuck with it.

[BacktoBasics]

man, you sure got triggered…

i was enjoying watching wemby and enjoying some cold ones and branham and wesley were bricking the game away and i got fed up with them and you STILL are crying about that?

since when did spurstalk posters develop such thin skin?

wesley- i wont deny it - he needs to go - not an nba player

branham - i didnt like him much last year and hoping he improved - a LOT - but i would not hate it if both were packaged in a trade deal to get a good NBA point guard

but not sure why you are so triggered over two unproven scrubs and not sure why YOU think you can dictate others postings and whether YOUR expert opinion has been tarnished by a strangers postings not directed at you….

grow a pair and chill buddy!
He asked for an example and I provided it.

[Spurs Homer]

He asked for an example and I provided it.

ok good for you

If branham stays and improves good for the spurs and good that i was wrong if that happens

not a big deal tbh

[kobyz]

If he improves this season then I’ll agree with you. Took Hornacek like 6 years to make an all star team and he was averaging 20ppg. Reaves only averaged 13ppg with injuries to scoring players. He had 1 good post season.

Again you’re not looking at the whole picture.

Thank god we didn’t offer him 100 million and be stuck with it.

I didn't suggest 100m, you could have been creative with that and get him at other great price or if Lakers elect to match still make them to pay more

[BacktoBasics]

I didn't suggest 100m, you could have been creative with that and get him at other great price or if Lakers elect to match still make them to pay more

No you couldn’t have. My best guess is that they’ll match up 70 million. Maybe even 75-80. Anything over 80 million isn’t worth tying up the money.

Maybe after this season he’ll be worth 85 or 90 million but I see no reason to roll the dice.

You guys are just impatient and want to spend money to spend money.

If we could get Reaves for 4 years at 60 million I’d be perfectly fine with that risk. But that wasn’t an option.

Tying up our cap on an offer we know they match would have been dumb considering the value that cap could potentially hold as a 3rd team facilitator on a Lilliard or Harden deal. I understand we’re past that but in the moment it was smart to not be careless with our cap space.

Some of you need to look at the big picture and all the moving parts. Not just an offer for face value.

[JPB]

The famous Jeff Hornesek.

[Extra Stout]

I hope we never stop talking about what might have been with Hillybilly Kobe.

[Obstructed_View]

I’ve had spurs homer on ignore for a few years now :lol

my bad

Honestly I have both of them on my ignore list.

[DPG21920]

Trade official

1681039871400456196

[DPG21920]

1681046533544849410

[spurraider21]

as expected. that SRP is probably top 55 protected

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Spurs own 2024 SRP is already fake traded to Boston (top 55 protected), so it might end up with a weird protection like 56-60 to Boston, 50-55 to Phoenix and 31-49 to Spurs or something like that.

[spurraider21]

The Spurs own 2024 SRP is already fake traded to Boston (top 55 protected), so it might end up with a weird protection like 56-60 to Boston, 50-55 to Phoenix and 31-49 to Spurs or something like that.
the spurs have a couple of other 2024 SRPs they can send, just not their own natural one

we get the more favorable of Chicago/NOP 2024 SRP

we also get the Lakers 2024 SRP


edit: the chicago/NOP one was sent as part of the bullock trade. so we can still send the lakers pick, and its probably top 55 protected as well

[sfernald]

Do you guys have a list of all the firsts and seconds we have now over the next few years?

[jesterbobman]

Do you guys have a list of all the firsts and seconds we have now over the next few years?

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed Is probably the best. Takes time to get perfect as details emerge on trades, but it's good enough.

[spurraider21]

yeah the realgm list is my go-to, but they're pretty behind as far as moves from this offseason

[urunobili]

I dig Cam. I trust at worst he'll be PG2...

[TD 21]

If he improves this season then I’ll agree with you. Took Hornacek like 6 years to make an all star team and he was averaging 20ppg. Reaves only averaged 13ppg with injuries to scoring players. He had 1 good post season.

Again you’re not looking at the whole picture.

Thank god we didn’t offer him 100 million and be stuck with it.

Still relying on counting stats without context.

Reaves is one of the most valuable archetypes (3 and D combo guard with size) extant and provides elite efficiency.

If he wasn't in a weird spot contractually, he'd have easily commanded $100M (which isn't that much in today's league).

[BacktoBasics]

Still relying on counting stats without context.

Reaves is one of the most valuable archetypes (3 and D combo guard with size) extant and provides elite efficiency.

If he wasn't in a weird spot contractually, he'd have easily commanded $100M (which isn't that much in today's league).

Easily is a massive stretch.

He didn’t even average 30 minutes a game last season. I get the draw to him. His postseason was a nice leap.

I have a 100 dollar bet with another member here that he won’t average over 30 minutes a game next season. I’ll offer you the same bet.

Based on last season I don’t like Reaves at 100 million and we weren’t the only team that could have tossed out an offer.

He got market value. For his sake I hope he has a great season. I have no interest in him on our roster at 100 million.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMHSKWT90PU

[cutewizard]

Payneeeeeeeeeeeeeee is here, hehehehehe

Paynetotbatot

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1CXs0IcdNU

[cutewizard]

he has the SWAGGER lol

we are totally stackedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

oh god, Nibiru is here, hehehehe

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVI_KN22Wg4

[MannyIsGod]

For those saying we should waive Cam Payne, the odds of Blake Wesley being better than Cam Payne over the next 4-5 years are not good. Being young is a reason to give players more time if you can, but not on its own. The player has to show adequate potential and it's debatable on whether or not Wesley has done that. There is an opportunity cost with keeping him and that should not be discounted so easily.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVBdu1ekOXA

[Extra Stout]

Time for the Cam Payne campaign

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V50jRgNWbfA

Cameron {Payne >>>>>> THE LEFT HAND OF THE SPURSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cutewizard]

we shall give them pain, hehehehehehehe

[Dejounte]

we shall give them pain, hehehehehehehe

What the fuck dude stop spamming shit

[Degoat]

I like Payne, it was a good addition but I think Devonte Graham is better imo

[BackHome]

Not a fan of Payne I would easily take Graham over him but that just me...

[tonight...you]

What the fuck dude stop spamming shit
Lol. Cute's been doing this for years and years. Let 'em have their fun.
It's better than just being a toxic jerk (not saying that's you at all), which there are so many on this site.

[NickiRasgo]

Magic got unprotected 2026 FRP swap from Suns or Wizards in this trade.

[Chinook]

Magic got unprotected 2026 FRP swap from Suns or Wizards in this trade.

Most swaps are unprotected. We've really gotta stop using that modifier. It's just like how most second-round picks that are traded are unprotected but no one feels the need to say, "And the Spurs got a completely unprotected second-round pick from LAL as part of the deal".

Yes, that swap is unprotected, but it's a lower priority than Washington. So WSH gets the best pick of them and PHX, ORL gets the best of their pick and the worse of WSH/PHX, and PHX gets the worst of all three. For some reason, folks on RGM were saying Washington can't trade another swap for those years, but that doesn't seem true. We'll just see if anyone is willing to buy it at this point.

[Ariel]

Yes, that swap is unprotected, but it's a lower priority than Washington. So WSH gets the best pick of them and PHX, ORL gets the best of their pick and the worse of WSH/PHX, and PHX gets the worst of all three. For some reason, folks on RGM were saying Washington can't trade another swap for those years, but that doesn't seem true. We'll just see if anyone is willing to buy it at this point.
What the hell, since we're there, I'd call Phoenix and sell them like 5/6 2nd rounders for swap rights on every pick they own:
'24: lesser of own/WAS
'26: lesser of own/WAS/ORL
'28: lesser of own/WAS
'30: lesser of own/WAS
I'd say their future looks like crap after '26 and Washington isn't exactly a well run franchise, I'd like the Spurs future much better than theirs by then and even if you improve most picks by a few slots it'll be worth it. If they want to mortgage their house for another round at the casino, might as well put up an offer.

[TD 21]

Easily is a massive stretch.

He didn’t even average 30 minutes a game last season. I get the draw to him. His postseason was a nice leap.

I have a 100 dollar bet with another member here that he won’t average over 30 minutes a game next season. I’ll offer you the same bet.

Based on last season I don’t like Reaves at 100 million and we weren’t the only team that could have tossed out an offer.

He got market value. For his sake I hope he has a great season. I have no interest in him on our roster at 100 million.

To put it in perspective, off the top Poole got $125M (1 year younger) and Herro (2 years younger) got $120M last off season. Both are defensive liabilities who have never scored on league average efficiency.

He was in his 2nd season and rose to prominence as it wore on. I'll do you a favor and save your money for you.

The only reason he didn't get $98M is because other teams knew it'd be a waste of time.

[exstatic]

Magic got unprotected 2026 FRP swap from Suns or Wizards in this trade.

The problem with the derivative swap, second hand, is that you never get the best pick. Wizards get that, THEN Magic get the better of the second or third best picks.

[exstatic]

What the hell, since we're there, I'd call Phoenix and sell them like 5/6 2nd rounders for swap rights on every pick they own:
'24: lesser of own/WAS
'26: lesser of own/WAS/ORL
'28: lesser of own/WAS
'30: lesser of own/WAS
I'd say their future looks like crap after '26 and Washington isn't exactly a well run franchise, I'd like the Spurs future much better than theirs by then and even if you improve most picks by a few slots it'll be worth it. If they want to mortgage their house for another round at the casino, might as well put up an offer.

They didn’t swap a pick with Orlando, they swapped a swap. Of the three picks, WSH,PHO, or their own, they get the middle pick.

[redman112]

Lol. Cute's been doing this for years and years. Let 'em have their fun.
It's better than just being a toxic jerk (not saying that's you at all), which there are so many on this site.
haha he's been on steroids:rollin

[Ariel]

They didn’t swap a pick with Orlando, they swapped a swap. Of the three picks, WSH,PHO, or their own, they get the middle pick.
No. The first swap, with Washington, gives Phoenix the lesser of the two picks as payment for Beal. Then Phoenix sold swap rights to Orlando on the pick they get (the lesser of the 2 between Phoenix and Washington), so that Orlando gets the better between that one and their own. So Phoenix is guaranteed to get THE LESSER OF THE 3. Washington or Orlando may get the better or the one in the middle, depending on where they end up, they're just guaranteed to not get the worst of the 3. For instance, say this is the order before and after swaps take place:
1) Before: WAS, ORL, PHO - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (neither swap)
2) Before: ORL, WAS, PHO - After: ORL, WAS, PHO (neither swap)
3) Before: WAS, PHO, ORL - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (only ORL swaps)
4) Before: ORL, PHO, WAS - After: ORL, WAS, PHO (only WAS swaps)
5) Before: PHO, ORL, WAS - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (only WAS swaps)
6) Before: PHO, WAS, ORL - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (both swap)
Suppose every prior scenario is equally likely (unrealistic, but indulge me for the purpose of clarity):
Washington ends up with the better pick 2/3 of the time and the middle one 1/3 or the time
Orlando ends up with the better pick 1/3 of the time and the middle one 2/3 or the time
Phoenix always ends up with the worst pick.

[NickiRasgo]

Most swaps are unprotected. We've really gotta stop using that modifier. It's just like how most second-round picks that are traded are unprotected but no one feels the need to say, "And the Spurs got a completely unprotected second-round pick from LAL as part of the deal".

Yes, that swap is unprotected, but it's a lower priority than Washington. So WSH gets the best pick of them and PHX, ORL gets the best of their pick and the worse of WSH/PHX, and PHX gets the worst of all three. For some reason, folks on RGM were saying Washington can't trade another swap for those years, but that doesn't seem true. We'll just see if anyone is willing to buy it at this point.


The problem with the derivative swap, second hand, is that you never get the best pick. Wizards get that, THEN Magic get the better of the second or third best picks.

Thanks for clarification but that's quite complicated. lol Shows what the market now of SRPs esp. after the Spurs started doing it with the Mavs.