if tp did not sign that extenstion he would command the max

[ducks]

holt got lucky and so did spur fans :smokin :smokin :smokin

[usckk]

Hell ya we did

[smeagol]

holt got lucky and so did spur fans :smokin :smokin :smokin
He is not the only one :fro

[TDMVPDPOY]

even if holt didnt buldge at the max, parkers game will be expose by the spurs and other teams, no one sets the high pic n roll like duncan does :D, trade parker though

[exstatic]

He'll get his in 6 years. He'll be 29 and in his prime. The Spurs will have to pay him or lose him at that point.

[ducks]

even if holt didnt buldge at the max, parkers game will be expose by the spurs and other teams, no one sets the high pic n roll like duncan does :D, trade parker though


actually rasho sets that pick the best of the spur players

[ducks]

does duncan's contract last 6 more years?


tp will need a big in 6 years if duncan is done.......

[exstatic]

Doesn't matter if Duncan is done or not. They will have to pay Tony or lose him.

[smeagol]

He is not the only one :fro
What I meant is that this is the second time Holt got lucky with regards to contracts. Manu's 52/6 contract is another fvking steal on his part.

[T Park]

He looks lucky NOW.

At the time, they were risks.

Btw,

281 Million Vbookie cash???

[smeagol]

He looks lucky NOW.

At the time, they were risks.
I don't think they were risks at all. Lots of people saw their value before they were about to sign their contracts. The have both proven they deserve those contracts and more.



281 Million Vbookie cash???
I got lucky in a couple of bets :angel

[Brodels]

He'll get his in 6 years. He'll be 29 and in his prime. The Spurs will have to pay him or lose him at that point.

I'm going to wait for a while before I believe that. By that time, he'll have taken the pounding of 11 NBA seasons. And as a slight-of-build point guard who relies heavily on speed to be successful, 11 years of NBA mileage will probably have taken some toll by that point.

That's the thing with all of these young players coming into the league. People look at a 30 year old and believe he's entering is prime, but if he's got 12 years under his belt and has taken a pounding for that long, his prime will likely come earlier.

The reason why 28-31 is generally considered a player's prime is because a player has gained experience but still has a good deal of athleticism. But the experience is the sole reason why a player's prime falls during those years. An NBA player isn't typically in his physical prime at age 30. A player is in his physical prime after he's been in the league for some period time and has had a chance to condition and establish his ideal playing weight.

So if a player coming out of college at age 22 hits his prime after maybe 6 years in the league when he's 28, it's logical to think that Parker could hit his prime this season or next season or the season after. After all, if experience is the primary factor in a player reaching his prime, Parker is certainly ahead of the experience curve for a player of his age. But his body has taken more of a pounding, too.

I guess what I'm saying is that the idea of a player reaching his prime at age 28-31 isn't going to apply any longer. Sure, a 30 year old body can probably recover more quickly than a 36 year old body, but the constant pounding an NBA player takes over time is still going to add up. I really believe that you'll start to see players hitting their primes at a younger age on average.

Think about it this way: Van Exel, who isn't the same player he used to be, has played 12 full seasons. Mike Finley, who arguably has lost a step, has only played 10 full seasons. If Parker stays healthy, he'll probably have played more minutes at the point when his contract expires than Van Exel has in his career to this point.

And Parker is a part of that. Few point guards start in the NBA for 11 years and survive without losing a step or three. Parker might be an exception, but since he relies so heavily on speed, it seems likely that a decline in his quickness would lead to the end of his prime. So I don't buy that Parker will be hitting his prime when his current contract is over. I think it's much more likely that we'll see him reach that stage in the next year or two or three or four. And that's good for Spurs fans, because Tim Duncan is still dominant and likely will be for the next few years.

The Spurs did well to lock up Parker, because his best years are going to be the next several years. It's hard to know what he could get on the open market when his current deal expires.

[smeagol]

Brodels, I agree with most of what you say, but there are exceptions. How old is Nash? 31? 32?

[T Park]

If he gets a consistent jump shot, wich is definately happening, then that will help with the wear and tear and depending on speed.

[Sense]

I wonder if our top3 players will stay in SA until they retire....

[exstatic]

I don't believe Manu will. <Gets ready for Church of Manu attack> Someone was referring to Tony taking a beating, but Manu takes more of a beating than almost any player in the league. With some of his injuries, we've gotten a preview of the 32-33 YO Manu, and it isn't pretty. Someone will pay him ridiculous cash. It just won't be the Spurs.

[Brodels]

Brodels, I agree with most of what you say, but there are exceptions. How old is Nash? 31? 32?

Nash has played 9 full NBA seasons, 7 NBA seasons with starter's minutes. When Parker finishes his current contract, if he stays healthy, he'll have played more minutes by the end of his deal than Nash has played in his entire career to this point. Nash was born in 1974.

Although Nash isn't afraid to drive to the hoop, I don't think he takes the pounding under the hoop that Parker takes. Nash is still a jump shooter, first and foremost. And it's hard to imagine that Nash expends much energy or takes much of a beating on the defensive end. Sometimes it looks like Nash doesn't even try to play defense.

But although Nash is a good example to think about, I'm thinking more about what's going to be average and what's going to be typical. There will always be players who can seemingly dominate without losing a step for 18 years. But most player will begin to lose something physically after playing 10 or 11 years in the league. And for players relying heavily on speed like Parker, that can be a serious problem.

I'm not saying that Parker won't be awesome at that point in his career or that he'll absolutely slow down. All I'm saying is that we need to think about how we think about the average NBA player's prime years. It's different now. And Parker will have a significant amount of mileage on his body when his current contract is up.

[smeagol]

Again, Brodels, I agree with most of what you are saying. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Another thing to consider is that Parker does not play too many minutes.

[SequSpur]

Manu who?

[exstatic]

Again, Brodels, I agree with most of what you are saying. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Another thing to consider is that Parker does not play too many minutes.

No, he doesn't, and he's the number 3 option.

I guess I'm the only one not seeing this beating/wear and tear that Parker is taking. Most times, when he goes all the way to the rack, he's untouched. His game is also played very close to the floor, a la JKidd. He's got, what, 3 dunks in his career?

[SequSpur]

Where was Manu tonight?

[MI21]

Brodels brings up good points, and he could very well be correct.

But perhaps TP is like AI. AI is in his 30's, and never been a better player than he is now, and is still one of the very fasted players in the league. He has hit the deck and played more MPG than just about any player in league history, and it hasn't affected him.

Hopefully TP is the same.

[exstatic]

That's actually a real good point, MI21. Iverson is 30, and in his 10th season. He only played one year at Georgetown, so he was Tony's age or a little older when he entered the league. He's had to carry the load his whole career, and has absorbed probably more contact than anyone not named Shaq during that time. He's still quick as lightning.

[exstatic]

Where was Manu tonight?
Where was Vag-insanity? (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30254)

[The Hustler]

if tp did not sign that extenstion he would command the max
holt got lucky and so did spur fans

holt got lucky and so did spur fans :smokin :smokin :smokin


holt and pop played hardball. they made tony think they were doing him a favor by giving him the extra couple mil.

and now? TP is one of the best bargains...CIA Pop strikes again.


and this contract makes tony very attractive should the right trade come along...right ducks...:lmao

[FromWayDowntown]

Of course, Parker's free agency summer would have been summer of 2005. I don't think anyone could doubt that Tony would have commanded big, big bucks (likely up to the max) had he played it out and gone on the market.

What he's doing now wouldn't have much impact on what he would have gotten in free agency, because, ostensibly, he would have already signed a long-term deal wherever he was going to end up.

[1Parker1]

Brodels, I agree with most of what you say, but there are exceptions. How old is Nash? 31? 32?


Better yet, what about Iverson?

[jcrod]

I'm going to wait for a while before I believe that. By that time, he'll have taken the pounding of 11 NBA seasons. And as a slight-of-build point guard who relies heavily on speed to be successful, 11 years of NBA mileage will probably have taken some toll by that point.

That's the thing with all of these young players coming into the league. People look at a 30 year old and believe he's entering is prime, but if he's got 12 years under his belt and has taken a pounding for that long, his prime will likely come earlier.

The reason why 28-31 is generally considered a player's prime is because a player has gained experience but still has a good deal of athleticism. But the experience is the sole reason why a player's prime falls during those years. An NBA player isn't typically in his physical prime at age 30. A player is in his physical prime after he's been in the league for some period time and has had a chance to condition and establish his ideal playing weight.

So if a player coming out of college at age 22 hits his prime after maybe 6 years in the league when he's 28, it's logical to think that Parker could hit his prime this season or next season or the season after. After all, if experience is the primary factor in a player reaching his prime, Parker is certainly ahead of the experience curve for a player of his age. But his body has taken more of a pounding, too.

I guess what I'm saying is that the idea of a player reaching his prime at age 28-31 isn't going to apply any longer. Sure, a 30 year old body can probably recover more quickly than a 36 year old body, but the constant pounding an NBA player takes over time is still going to add up. I really believe that you'll start to see players hitting their primes at a younger age on average.

Think about it this way: Van Exel, who isn't the same player he used to be, has played 12 full seasons. Mike Finley, who arguably has lost a step, has only played 10 full seasons. If Parker stays healthy, he'll probably have played more minutes at the point when his contract expires than Van Exel has in his career to this point.

And Parker is a part of that. Few point guards start in the NBA for 11 years and survive without losing a step or three. Parker might be an exception, but since he relies so heavily on speed, it seems likely that a decline in his quickness would lead to the end of his prime. So I don't buy that Parker will be hitting his prime when his current contract is over. I think it's much more likely that we'll see him reach that stage in the next year or two or three or four. And that's good for Spurs fans, because Tim Duncan is still dominant and likely will be for the next few years.

The Spurs did well to lock up Parker, because his best years are going to be the next several years. It's hard to know what he could get on the open market when his current deal expires.

Dude, you post is way to long. I didn't even bother.

TP will be in his prime. He will have is jump shot by then and no he will not of lost his speed/quickness at 29. Nash btw is about 34.

[Lady M]

the first thing Tony want is win win and win

when he lost 3 games with France's Team at euro basket it was like a drama for him
A say to is best friend Boris Diaw "how can you survive in Atlanta"

of course he want some money but his first choise is a very good team for win more and more.

Tony can't take the same decision than Joe Johnson play only for the money

so if SA don't sign him last year, they probably sign this year (maybe with a best contract but it isn't certain)

[The Artest Factor]

Parker is a poor mans Marbury. Same selfish me-first attitude, same lack of defense. the only difference is Marbury is more skilled and more physically gifted.

[TDMVPDPOY]

tony parker is a busts

[Spurminator]

Your schtick is butts.

[Brodels]

Dude, you post is way to long. I didn't even bother.

TP will be in his prime. He will have is jump shot by then and no he will not of lost his speed/quickness at 29. Nash btw is about 34.

:lol Nice retort. Forget trends and solid theories, I guess it boils down to the fact that Parker will have lost nothing by then simply because you said so. Nice comeback.

And Nash is "about 34?" You don't even know? He's 31. That's not "about 34" in my book.

And besides, the whole point was that there is more to consider than age. You've got to consider minutes and years played. And Nash has only been a starter in the league for seven years. I can tell you didn't read my post because you didn't respond to anything in it.

Here's a hint: at least skim a post before you respond to it.

[ducks]

I like brodels post
there are thought out before he post
yes they are long but they contain information

it does not take to long to read

[exstatic]

tony parker is a busts

Do you even watch basketball? Parker came within inches of a triple double in just shy of 34 minutes with 20p/8r/7a. He's in the top 20 in scoring, assists, and FG%. Hint, the list is real short: Tony and KG.

Your brain "is a busts".

[SequSpur]

Tony Parker is a stud. Hopefully, he keeps it up. I still would like to see an outside shot.

[spursfaninla]

I think Brodel is right about the average.

However, in your calculus, you have to subtract what would have been the pounding of a college season for 3 or 4 years, if you really want to talk about changing the concept of "prime years" from what it used to be.

Yes, college is shorter than the NBA season, but not insignificant.

Plus, the body is better able to recover from the pounding in the 20's, so the damage done is easier to recover from.

The other significant thing to consider is that the body takes years to develop muscle mass. This is very much the case in most NBA players; it takes years for them to develop into the physical players they become. Shaq, for instance, is MUCH stronger now than he was when he first entered into the league (though he could jump higher back then).

This is most evident when you look at NFL players; you don't see guys come right out of HS, not because they aren't talented enough, nor because they lack experience; its because they have to develop their bodies to handle the strength and size of the NFL.

I think Tony will get bigger over the years, and will develop more dimensions to his game. If he doesn't, he most likely WILL be slower by the age of 29 or 30, and will be declining by that point.

If he spends the time improving his game in other ways, he will probably be better than he is now, even though he will be slightly slower.

[Mr. Defense]

Tony Parker is a stud. Hopefully, he keeps it up. I still would like to see an outside shot.



#1: keep the D up and the assists up.

#2: take it to the hole when you can.

That is all i want from TP.

stats don't win championships. remember that.

[Brodels]

I think Brodel is right about the average.

However, in your calculus, you have to subtract what would have been the pounding of a college season for 3 or 4 years, if you really want to talk about changing the concept of "prime years" from what it used to be.

Yes, college is shorter than the NBA season, but not insignificant.

Plus, the body is better able to recover from the pounding in the 20's, so the damage done is easier to recover from.

The other significant thing to consider is that the body takes years to develop muscle mass. This is very much the case in most NBA players; it takes years for them to develop into the physical players they become. Shaq, for instance, is MUCH stronger now than he was when he first entered into the league (though he could jump higher back then).

This is most evident when you look at NFL players; you don't see guys come right out of HS, not because they aren't talented enough, nor because they lack experience; its because they have to develop their bodies to handle the strength and size of the NFL.

I think Tony will get bigger over the years, and will develop more dimensions to his game. If he doesn't, he most likely WILL be slower by the age of 29 or 30, and will be declining by that point.

If he spends the time improving his game in other ways, he will probably be better than he is now, even though he will be slightly slower.

Point well taken.

Personally, I'm not convinced that the rigors of a college season even some close to what happens in an NBA season because of the following:

- College teams play less than half as many games
- College games are shorter
- The college game is a little less physical
- Although the same could be said about a player's first year in the NBA, many college kids don't play serious minutes until they've been there for a while, at least traditionally
- Many college coaches are more likely to play a variety of players, thus limiting the amount of time any one player spends on the floor

The college factor needs to be taken into consideration. And even though I really don't have anything to base this on except what I've said above, it seems to me that the pounding a player takes over three college seasons could be about equivalent to what an NBA player receives in one season. Again, that has no basis in fact, but it seems reasonable.

You're right about the muscle mass. That, along with a lack of experience, are the reasons why players don't hit their primes until they've played several years in the league. But it seems like most players hit their physical peak and their primes after playing about 5-7 years in the league. With Parker, we're talking about 11 seasons.

If Parker can get stronger and become a more complete player, I don't doubt that he'll be able to have success well into his thirties. But I'm not convinced that he's going to be a better player once he loses some speed, because doing so would require him to completely change what his game is about. I don't think that's very likely.

It's not a stretch to believe that Parker will be good into his thirties. But I don't believe that he's going to be hitting his prime after he's played 11 seasons in the league. Sure, he'll be 29. But he'll also be a speed player with 11 seasons behind him of starting in the NBA.

I think your point is a good one.

[SequSpur]

#1: keep the D up and the assists up.

#2: take it to the hole when you can.

That is all i want from TP.

stats don't win championships. remember that.

An outside shot keeps the defense from saggin on Tim Duncan. The Avery Johnson effect.

[5ToolMan]

I'm going to wait for a while before I believe that. By that time, he'll have taken the pounding of 11 NBA seasons. And as a slight-of-build point guard who relies heavily on speed to be successful, 11 years of NBA mileage will probably have taken some toll by that point.

That's the thing with all of these young players coming into the league. People look at a 30 year old and believe he's entering is prime, but if he's got 12 years under his belt and has taken a pounding for that long, his prime will likely come earlier.

The reason why 28-31 is generally considered a player's prime is because a player has gained experience but still has a good deal of athleticism. But the experience is the sole reason why a player's prime falls during those years. An NBA player isn't typically in his physical prime at age 30. A player is in his physical prime after he's been in the league for some period time and has had a chance to condition and establish his ideal playing weight.

So if a player coming out of college at age 22 hits his prime after maybe 6 years in the league when he's 28, it's logical to think that Parker could hit his prime this season or next season or the season after. After all, if experience is the primary factor in a player reaching his prime, Parker is certainly ahead of the experience curve for a player of his age. But his body has taken more of a pounding, too.

I guess what I'm saying is that the idea of a player reaching his prime at age 28-31 isn't going to apply any longer. Sure, a 30 year old body can probably recover more quickly than a 36 year old body, but the constant pounding an NBA player takes over time is still going to add up. I really believe that you'll start to see players hitting their primes at a younger age on average.

Think about it this way: Van Exel, who isn't the same player he used to be, has played 12 full seasons. Mike Finley, who arguably has lost a step, has only played 10 full seasons. If Parker stays healthy, he'll probably have played more minutes at the point when his contract expires than Van Exel has in his career to this point.

And Parker is a part of that. Few point guards start in the NBA for 11 years and survive without losing a step or three. Parker might be an exception, but since he relies so heavily on speed, it seems likely that a decline in his quickness would lead to the end of his prime. So I don't buy that Parker will be hitting his prime when his current contract is over. I think it's much more likely that we'll see him reach that stage in the next year or two or three or four. And that's good for Spurs fans, because Tim Duncan is still dominant and likely will be for the next few years.

The Spurs did well to lock up Parker, because his best years are going to be the next several years. It's hard to know what he could get on the open market when his current deal expires.

Great and well reasoned post!

While I agree, Tony will have considerably more miles on him by the time he reaches 10 years in the league, they are mostly highway miles. Tony has always been a well conditioned athlete who lives right and has been mostly injury free. Because of this, baring serious injury, I expect his growing knowledge to more than off set any minor loss of quickness or spead for the next several years.