Woj: Zach Collins agrees to 2-year 35 million $ extension

[Atl Spur]

a true bottom bitch :lol

Men don’t act like you…..there may be some daddy issues here. Keep it basketball

[jeebus]

Collins last ten games 37.7% from the field 11.1% from three and 62.5 from the line. :lol

:pop: he just needs to keep shooting that 3 ball. I don't care if Wemby gets frustrated and leaves, that's family business. We like what we have and he can spot Rwanda on a map :pop:

[Gagnrath]

Collins was -27 against Cleveland in the 20 minutes he played. Victor was +10. They lost by 16 points.

As awful as Collins has been shooting and especially from distance, his defense is even more atrocious. He gets manhandled by bigger guys and torched by smaller guys. I can't believe how much he's regressed from the end of last season.


I'm trying to figure out what changed, Sometimes he was looking better than Jakob and seemed serviceable, then this year spends a lot of games just looking bad. I know he's had health issues in his career and it was a last chance deal but he needs to get a lot of that back if he wants to continue. Is it head or body? Whats going on?

[Dejounte]

I'm trying to figure out what changed, Sometimes he was looking better than Jakob and seemed serviceable, then this year spends a lot of games just looking bad. I know he's had health issues in his career and it was a last chance deal but he needs to get a lot of that back if he wants to continue. Is it head or body? Whats going on?

Last year’s team allowed him to be much more of a stat stuffer than he is now, obviously because Vic is getting all those touches. Last year’s Collins was just as bad as this year’s— I kept saying it in game threads last year and now everyone’s surprised because the stakes are higher (with finding the right fit next to Vic). He’s who he’s always been. A dude who has no defensive awareness.

[vy65]

What a waste of 35 million dollars

[Big Empty]

Only reason Matt Bonner wasnt worse was he only made like 4 million a year lol

[Gagnrath]

Last year’s team allowed him to be much more of a stat stuffer than he is now, obviously because Vic is getting all those touches. Last year’s Collins was just as bad as this year’s— I kept saying it in game threads last year and now everyone’s surprised because the stakes are higher (with finding the right fit next to Vic). He’s who he’s always been. A dude who has no defensive awareness.

The defense isn't as much the issue as no shooting and no touch. He doesn't need to be much more than so-so on defense if he rebounds well and has the ability to pull a defensive center away from the basket.

[slick'81]

Only reason Matt Bonner wasnt worse was he only made like 4 million a year lol


And could hit an open three

[RC_Drunkford]

this guy was foul prone as a rookie and he still is. A couple of Raptors players had the ball under the rim, standing there not even attempting to pump fake and here comes Zach Collins flying in with a body check to send them to the line.

[vy65]

Our GM musta turned Japanese with just how Wong he was with this one

[SpursFan86]

Dude has been shockingly bad this year :lol To start the year he was at least somewhat playable despite his 3 point shot not falling. As the year has gone on he’s just gotten worse and worse.

[Blizzardwizard]

Still likely 100+ more games of watching this guy defend thin air and brick threes.

Damn you, Brian. Damn you.

[Kurgan]

In retrospect, Bonner gets way too much hate from the Spurs fanbase after having watched this faggot attempt to play basketball the past three years.

[z0sa]

Zollins was signed for this money with the idea he'd be nailing three's at least at a decent clip, 35% or so. He's not worth anything near 17 mill without doing so. our bigs outside of Wemby are either undersized, raw, suck, injured, or a combination thereof.

[CorrectCrusader]

https://i.imgur.com/gzHN8jC.png

[onechance87]

https://i.imgur.com/gzHN8jC.png

man did this guy just stop practicing his three point shooting in the offseason...How did he get this bad.
Guy got paid and said fuck it...Was a bad gamble from wright

[z0sa]

man did this guy just stop practicing his three point shooting in the offseason...How did he get this bad.
Guy got paid and said fuck it...Was a bad gamble from wright

to me, they paid Zach because they wanted someone a bit more "veteran", a bit "nasty" to protect Wemby and help him grow as a big. The problem is that Zach has some nasty, sure, but no talent. :lol he's just not good enough to be next to Wemby. He SHOULD be shining on the bench, though. He should be showing that "nasty" by knocking in these open 3s when we can't kill for a basket. That's what 'real' nasty is on the court. He's tough but not good. It is what it is.

[vy65]

Hitting the salary floor MVP

[bluebellmaniac]

Hmmm. And next year if he's hitting 40% of his 3's, then he's earn every penny he was due this year. Let's not condemn those who help us achieve our goals this year.

[RC_Drunkford]

if we had a real rim protecting big coming off the bench our defense would at least be consistent. But with him it becomes a lay up line everytime he subs in and then he also clanks a bunch of 3-point shots, being a liability on both ends.

[spurraider21]

Took pop 1/3 of the season to take Sochan off point. How long is it going to take to make Barlow the primary backup 5?

[spurraider21]

if we had a real rim protecting big coming off the bench our defense would at least be consistent. But with him it becomes a lay up line everytime he subs in and then he also clanks a bunch of 3-point shots, being a liability on both ends.
Pop didn’t seem bashful about giving Bassey opportunities before he went down. Tho that was all during the “big lineup” experiment where he was the primary backup and Collins was a starter

[RC_Drunkford]

Pop didn’t seem bashful about giving Bassey opportunities before he went down. Tho that was all during the “big lineup” experiment where he was the primary backup and Collins was a starter

I really hope we makesome trades in the offseason and offload his contract. He plays losing basketball. It also sucks that Bassey is out for the season, development wise. When Barlow plays instead of Collins we're much better.

[CGD]

Meanwhile: https://theathletic.com/5276718/2024/02/14/isaiah-stewart-drew-eubanks-punch-pistons-suns/?amp=1

[r0drig0lac]

even when he makes the right move, something wrong still happens, it seems like some kind of curse, impressive.

[poopbox]

Took pop 1/3 of the season to take Sochan off point. How long is it going to take to make Barlow the primary backup 5?

Barlow is not the answer either. He had Gafford and Bagley looking like HOF:lol

[JPB]

It's gonna soon cost spurs 3 FRPs to offload the karate kid's contract :lol

[BatManu20]

Lol

1758137656565977118

[Ocotillo]

Lol

1758137656565977118

I guess he got a case of the yips for Christmas.

[itzsoweezee]

Barlow is not the answer either. He had Gafford and Bagley looking like HOF:lol

Barlow is a much better basketball player than Collins

[spurraider21]

i've always been a "shoot away" kind of guy when guys are in slumps, but my god, maybe pop should tell him he's literally not allowed to shoot 3's anymore. no more pick and pops.

he's actually shooting a career high on 2pt attempts

[timtonymanu]

Wouldn’t care at all about him if he wasn’t offered that shitty contract. Way overpaid for how little he contributes.but as usual this dumb organization has a problem with giving out charity contracts to non long term solutions.

[Dejounte]

I said it before and ill say it again…i wouldnt be surprised if Zach was caught in a drug bust. Ive seen eyes like his before and it’s one of a cokehead

[Dejounte]

Sexual assault with primo
domestic violence with forbes
substance abuse with zach

it’s a trifecta

spurs the new jailblazers

[Russ]

So let's see . . .

In his last game (last night) in 21 minutes he had 12 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 blocks. (He also had 6 points albeit on 9 shots.)

He's an ancient 26 years old.

He's got an arguably high salary that goes on and on until . . . year after next.

What a disaster!

Assemble all of our draft capital to get rid of this problem!!!

[objective]

Guess who was talked about during the Dunc'd On podcast episode about the worst contracts in the league?

[onechance87]

almost 20 million a year for next year and after....Money could of been used better.Man wright better make sum shit happen
this summer and make some improvements.Tgree straight years of being terrible is not acceptable unless we are improving.
We drafted wemby and yet got worse,Just says something about wright moves with the roster.

[CGD]

His salary will be needed for the Trae deal, so just chill.

[Knoxxx]

Wait a minute, two MORE years?!?

(barf emoji)

[ginobilized]

His salary will be needed for the Trae deal, so just chill.

Collins salary will not be tradable until October. It's veteran contract.

[KobesAchilles]

I don’t see what anyone here is complaining about. The going rate for a good bench big man is about 15-20 million a year. We got a bargain in his contract. How many of yall are GMs? How many of yall have experience in the front office of an NBA team. PATFO have been making good moves for years now. To question them shows you aren’t really a fan of this team

[onechance87]

I don’t see what anyone here is complaining about. The going rate for a good bench big man is about 15-20 million a year. We got a bargain in his contract. How many of yall are GMs? How many of yall have experience in the front office of an NBA team. PATFO have been making good moves for years now. To question them shows you aren’t really a fan of this team

Thats the problem...Hes not a good bench big man either.He cant defend or shoot.He hurts this team when hes out there.

[ismael-robert]

Hasn't the point already been made zacks new salary n contract don't kick in till next season

[CGD]

Collins salary will not be tradable until October. It's veteran contract.

No

[JeffDuncan]

I don’t see what anyone here is complaining about. The going rate for a good bench big man is about 15-20 million a year. …


Nah.

Andre Drummond, twice NBA rebound champ, twice an All-Star, once All-NBA, 30 yrs old, contract is $3.36 M.

Mason Plumlee, $5 M.

Eubanks, who’s been playing quite a bit for the Suns, $2.35 M.

Dwight Powell, who had started for the Mavs the last couple seasons, $4 M.

Mo Bamba, also Dario Saric, both at $2 M.

A bench big man who is simply that - a bench big man - is lucky to get over $5 M in this league.

The reason Zollins got that contract is because the Spurs planned for him to be a starter beside Wemby. It’s starter money, at the level for a supporting player. But for a bench big man it’s a bad contract.

[ginobilized]

No

I hope I'm wrong, thought that I read that somewhere on this beloved forum. I take everything I read here as 100% accurate and true.

[KobesAchilles]

Nah.

Andre Drummond, twice NBA rebound champ, twice an All-Star, once All-NBA, 30 yrs old, contract is $3.36 M.

Mason Plumlee, $5 M.

Eubanks, who’s been playing quite a bit for the Suns, $2.35 M.

Dwight Powell, who had started for the Mavs the last couple seasons, $4 M.

Mo Bamba, also Dario Saric, both at $2 M.

A bench big man who is simply that - a bench big man - is lucky to get over $5 M in this league.

The reason Zollins got that contract is because the Spurs planned for him to be a starter beside Wemby. It’s starter money, at the level for a supporting player. But for a bench big man it’s a bad contract.
Oh I’m aware :lol

[Mr. Body]

I don’t see what anyone here is complaining about. The going rate for a good bench big man is about 15-20 million a year. We got a bargain in his contract. How many of yall are GMs? How many of yall have experience in the front office of an NBA team. PATFO have been making good moves for years now. To question them shows you aren’t really a fan of this team

Collins is a good player. He was our best player at the end of last year. He's really bad right now. Either you have to believe he's completely lost the ability to play, which is probably not the case, or you recognize he doesn't have it right now for one reason or another.

The brain trust on this site thinks he never was good.

[LeBowen]

Collins is a good player. He was our best player at the end of last year. He's really bad right now. Either you have to believe he's completely lost the ability to play, which is probably not the case, or you recognize he doesn't have it right now for one reason or another.

The brain trust on this site thinks he never was good.

The biggest issue with sports fans in general is that they can't accept the fact that players can improve or decline.
They mostly make up their mind and that's about it.

Collins is this team's veteran. Even if we take into account his last season level, his extension was an overpay. But whatever, feelgood story, player coming back from an injury, he's still fairly young and will get even better etc.
And then he turns into a G-league player. He's legit looking worse than two G-league bigs we have on the roster. Both pre-injury Bassey and Barlow have looked better than him.
He's getting completely torched by bench players which just can't happen.

He's completely out of it and that's a fact. Right now he's the definition of a charity case player.
Are we supposed to hope and pray he goes back to last season's level? Fuck no.

Poor shooting streak can be excused and it's not his fault he's got the green light to shoot threes when he obviously can't, but I just can't get over that atrocious defense.
He's completely lost.

Gets toched in the post, on pnr, can't boxout properly, makes dumb fouls, doesn't communicate and coordinate defense as a big, there's just nothing positive to write about. And none of those things have anything to do with current level of play.

[rankingtear]

He was really good to last year in the last 15 games 17 PPG at 48/40/80. 4.4 3PA. 1.1 STL and 1.3 BLK. He would probably valued at 14 a year for 3-4 years if he hit the market last offseason. They McDermott his deal to make it look worse than it is. More money for less years. It is unlikely to affect what they do. The salary floor is a real thing that teams accounts for. Worst case he would just be our next salary floor/ trade filler guy after they waive Graham.

The bad contracts would matter maybe 3 years from now once Wemby extension hit. So far Devin is the only one on the books for that for a cheap 13% of the cap.

[rankingtear]

The biggest issue with sports fans in general is that they can't accept the fact that players can improve or decline.
They mostly make up their mind and that's about it.

Collins is this team's veteran. Even if we take into account his last season level, his extension was an overpay. But whatever, feelgood story, player coming back from an injury, he's still fairly young and will get even better etc.
And then he turns into a G-league player. He's legit looking worse than two G-league bigs we have on the roster. Both pre-injury Bassey and Barlow have looked better than him.
He's getting completely torched by bench players which just can't happen.

He's completely out of it and that's a fact. Right now he's the definition of a charity case player.
Are we supposed to hope and pray he goes back to last season's level? Fuck no.

Poor shooting streak can be excused and it's not his fault he's got the green light to shoot threes when he obviously can't, but I just can't get over that atrocious defense.
He's completely lost.

Gets toched in the post, on pnr, can't boxout properly, makes dumb fouls, doesn't communicate and coordinate defense as a big, there's just nothing positive to write about. And none of those things have anything to do with current level of play.

Or he just fucked up his ankle again.

[LeBowen]

Or he just fucked up his ankle again.

He was horrible even before he missed games this season.
As they say, if you're on the floor, you're healthy.

There's no way he'd be playing injured considering that the season is already over.
If you ask me, typical case of contract year player coming back to his actual level.

[rankingtear]

He was horrible even before he missed games this season.
As they say, if you're on the floor, you're healthy.

There's no way he'd be playing injured considering that the season is already over.
If you ask me, typical case of contract year player coming back to his actual level.

He is not this horrible. He is really bad now, he can't step into his shot and has zero lift. Pop already said that ankle set him back.

[SupremeGuy]

As much as it cracks me up to see you guys shit on Zollins, there's no way he's this bad. He has to still be hurt or shit maybe he made an account here and you fuckwads raped his confidence. lol

[MannyIsGod]

Collins is a good player. He was our best player at the end of last year. He's really bad right now. Either you have to believe he's completely lost the ability to play, which is probably not the case, or you recognize he doesn't have it right now for one reason or another.

The brain trust on this site thinks he never was good.

He had an OK stretch last year but I don't know that that makes him a good player. He's been fucking ATROCIOUS this year.

[MannyIsGod]

Y'all don't need to make up phantom injuries or drug habbits to explain Collins. He might just not be that good at all. He had a good month last year, got paid, and now has possibly just reverted. Maybe not, but at this point until proven otherwise the guy just kinda sucks. His contract is far from the end of the world but its not exactly good. Its definitely a bad contract right now.

[scott]

I hope I'm wrong, thought that I read that somewhere on this beloved forum. I take everything I read here as 100% accurate and true.

I believe the one-year trade restriction is for players who sign a Designated Player Extension, which Collins did not. All indications point to him being tradeable after April 22.

[scott]

Collins is a good player. He was our best player at the end of last year. He's really bad right now. Either you have to believe he's completely lost the ability to play, which is probably not the case, or you recognize he doesn't have it right now for one reason or another.

The brain trust on this site thinks he never was good.

Lots of players were good and considered worth their deals when they signed them, only for them to age poorly and become negative assets. Right now Collins and his deal are a negative asset (meaning, it will likely cost us to move off it). That doesn't mean we need to commit collective suicide, but there is also nothing wrong with acknowledging this fact.

[Harry Callahan]

This contract is not a huge problem given the Spurs current roster. There are several players who will be out of here due to lack of performance and losing out to higher level players coming in the future. I don't know what the deal is with Collins right now, but getting healthy would probably help the situation more than anything. That may come next year. Still only a 2 year commitment starting in 24-25. I don't think we need to attach assets to ZC and dump him just yet.

[NASpurs]

:lol why do people say his health is the reason of him sucking ass. Before the latest injury, he was fucking horrible.

And asking this guy to stay healthy :lol

[JPB]

It's the headband tbh. I don't know if he lost a bet, but when you look like a scrub, you play like a scrub. Gotta remove it and everything will get back in order.

[ginobilized]

I can imagine signing the extension, getting Wemby and being a starter were all huge confidence boosters for him. Losing the starting role and have opposing offenses licking their chops to attack the paint when Wemby leaves must be brutal.
Add in Wemby's minutes restriction and Collins is going against starting 5s often. All that is tough to adjust to in the beginning of a season. I think he'll salvage the season to some degree in the last segment of games. A big break like the ASG can help a player refocus.

The Cobra Kai headband vibe is not helping, but, can't be the only culprit of his decline.

At least he gets to keep that money, regardless.

[BatManu20]

We really gave this guy a 2-yr/$35M extension last Summer :lol

1761052675389407289

[Jordan Jackson]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone shoot 4.3% from 3. I know some context needs to be factored in. But to quote our astute rookie “what the fuck is this?”

[Mugen]

What a fucking fleece job by Zollins on the FO, you have to respect it tbh. BWrong :lol

[objective]

"4%? That's who we are." - :pop:

[SpursFan86]

I’m still in awe at how bad he’s been. I think there’s a legitimate argument that he’s been the clear worst player on the team over the past 2 months. Bassey going down at the start of this year is really unfortunate.

[Splits]

Author: Jeff Garcia (KENS)Published: 9:36 AM CST February 21, 2024
Updated: 9:36 AM CST February 21, 2024
Facebook
SAN ANTONIO — To start the San Antonio Spurs' 2023-24 season, Zach Collins was in the starting unit playing alongside rookie Victor Wembanyama.


However, as the season progressed, the team opted to shuffle the lineup, and now Collins finds himself coming off the bench rather than paired with Wemby as often as he had.


But as the season progresses, Collins admits he'd like to share time on the court more often with the French big man.


“We were playing together a lot more at the start of the year and then I got moved to coming off the bench, so we don’t really get to play together that much anymore, (but) I did enjoy playing with him because he’s a fun guy to throw the ball to under the rim," he said to The Spokesman-Review.


In 25 games played together, a two-man lineup of Collins and Wembanyama averages 33.0 points per game, including 44% field goal shooting, 30% three-point shooting, and 14.9 rebounds.


A deeper dive shows the big difference between having Collins on the court and not with Wembanyama.

They played 385 minutes together for a Net Rating of -10.48. Wembanyama has played 1007 total minutes without Collins on the court, which has yielded a Net Rating of -4.13.


However, in 656 total minutes with Collins on the court without Wembanyama, the Net Rating is -14.36.


Statistically, moving Collins was the best move, but he hopes to see more time on the court with the 20-year-old basketball phenom.


“Hopefully, we can get back out on the court a little bit more in the future," he said.


Yeah, that's what is needed. lmao net rating of -14 when he's the only big.

[Seventyniner]

imo it's all in his head. Collins went from being the best big on the team after the Poeltl trade last year to being the clear backup to a teenager.

If he doesn't manage to finish the season well the Spurs will definitely try to dump him, perhaps by attaching assets and including him as salary ballast.

If the Spurs get desperate I think they could waive-and-stretch Collins's $35M over the next 5 years, eating $7M of dead cap every year. But I really hope it doesn't come to that.

[objective]

Zollins desperate for Wemby to save him. Sad.

Funny he talks about throwing passes to Wemby, I'm pretty sure getting split away from Wemby cut down Zollins turnovers majorly because there's no more awful passes out of bounds trying to feed Wemby

[scott]

One has to wonder if Zach has reached rock bottom, or if things can somehow get worse.

[RC_Drunkford]

He's a great tank commander. We would've easily won 10 more games without him.

[Big Empty]

He's a great tank commander. We would've easily won 10 more games without him. with just about 30 games left, its now important to keep him on the court to ensure a top 5 pick

[Raven]

think he could use playing with a legit pf, he's defending solid, but gets scored on regardless.

[CGD]

think he could use playing with a legit pf, he's defending solid, but gets scored on regardless.

I do think the bench is tiny outside of Zach to be fair, and Keldon remains a zero on that side of the court as well. The Bassy injury is underrated.

But yeah, it really looks like I have to eat crow on Zach as one of his biggest defenders over the years. Sad bc I love his redemption story.

[Chomag]

Does he make the top 10 list of worst players to ever put on a spurs uniform?

[CGD]

Does he make the top 10 list of worst players to ever put on a spurs uniform?

Come on man, no. There are like 5 dudes ahead of him on the CURRENT roster. But there is an argument if broken down on a per dollar basis.

[Dejounte]

Come on man, no. There are like 5 dudes ahead of him on the CURRENT roster. But there is an argument if broken down on a per dollar basis.

Just because he plays more than other players doesn’t make him better than the other players. And this isn’t a genuine argument since not all of those players are centers and the team has to play a center. Collins, is in fact, one of the worst Spurs players of all-time.

[Knoxxx]

Collins at least scored a little last night and hit a few 3s. His body language is pretty bad out there though. I’ve been beating the drum that one of the team’s biggest needs is a legit big to pair with Wemby. Sochan is a SF/PF that doesn’t deal with the likes of LeBron or AD that well. Of course, LeBron has his way with most everyone except he whose name we shall not mention.

[Ariel]

imo it's all in his head. Collins went from being the best big on the team after the Poeltl trade last year to being the clear backup to a teenager.

If he doesn't manage to finish the season well the Spurs will definitely try to dump him, perhaps by attaching assets and including him as salary ballast.

If the Spurs get desperate I think they could waive-and-stretch Collins's $35M over the next 5 years, eating $7M of dead cap every year. But I really hope it doesn't come to that.
I very much doubt the Spurs would waive and stretch Collins. Barring some unforeseen circumstance that demands immediate cap space, they probably eat his salary next season, and use his contract as trade filler the season following, when he becomes an expiring.

[John B]

What I like about Zach is he still goes out there playing hard. He gets posterized because he doesn’t give up on a dunk. You have to give him credit for trying. I’m happy for him making that shot last night. I’m rooting he gets better because he’s a good kid, he has the motor and tenacity, and a hardworker. He climbed his way back from long injuries. He’s not a quitter.

[MannyIsGod]

Does he make the top 10 list of worst players to ever put on a spurs uniform?

How is this even a serious question? No.

[baseline bum]

imo it's all in his head. Collins went from being the best big on the team after the Poeltl trade last year to being the clear backup to a teenager.

If he doesn't manage to finish the season well the Spurs will definitely try to dump him, perhaps by attaching assets and including him as salary ballast.

If the Spurs get desperate I think they could waive-and-stretch Collins's $35M over the next 5 years, eating $7M of dead cap every year. But I really hope it doesn't come to that.

They're not going to attach assets to get rid of Collins with a weak FA class where they'll need to make the salary floor anyways. Collins will get moved in the summer of 2025 or at the 2026 trade deadline when he's an expiring.

[onechance87]

They're not going to attach assets to get rid of Collins with a weak FA class where they'll need to make the salary floor anyways. Collins will get moved in the summer of 2025 or at the 2026 trade deadline when he's an expiring.

but man hes that bad,That hes hurting this team.Everyone sees it.As soon as collins steps in,You just
know shit gonna go south fast.

[Big Empty]

I very much doubt the Spurs would waive and stretch Collins. Barring some unforeseen circumstance that demands immediate cap space, they probably eat his salary next season, and use his contract as trade filler the season following, when he becomes an expiring.
Which is why we need another defensive center. Barlow is solid but Collins should be playing pf off the bench along side Wemby or another 5 when Wembys getting rest. Sochan can play the 3 or 4 depending on matchups. I hope Toronto’s pick miracously conveys we could plug two big holes with solid top 10 talent

[baseline bum]

but man hes that bad,That hes hurting this team.Everyone sees it.As soon as collins steps in,You just
know shit gonna go south fast.

Indeed he is, but I still wouldn't attach assets to get rid of him. Especially since his contract could prove really useful for using for matching salary in trade. E.g., if the Spurs wanted to trade for Trae this summer or maybe at the 2025 draft I'm guessing it would be something like Keldon + Collins + Atlanta's 25 and 27 picks and the Spurs relinquish the 26 pick swap.

[BatManu20]

Does he make the top 10 list of worst players to ever put on a spurs uniform?

No... Top-10 worst contracts, sure. But not top-10 worst players. Spurs have had some really bad ones over the years. Off the top of my head, guys like Jeff Ayers, Danny Ferry, Austin Daye, Steve Smith, Chucky Brown, Greg Anderson, Jack Haley, Mengke Bateer, etc. come to mind. Even Mamu and Champagnie on our current roster are worse.

[scott]

Zach playing so bad that he got a write-up in Lowe's piece this week:

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39577809/lowe-red-hot-cavs-flourishing-luka-kyrie-pairing

5. The shot Zach Collins (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4066650/zach-collins) might need to bagI have had a soft spot for Collins since the 2018-19 season, when he had somewhat of a breakout playoff performance for the Portland Trail Blazers (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/por/portland-trail-blazers). Collins was 21 then, in his second season, and it was reasonable to hope he might turn into the rare center who could both protect the rim and shoot 3s.
Injuries decimated him; Collins played only 39 games over the next three seasons. He was a worthy reclamation project for the San Antonio Spurs, and earned the two-year, $34.8 million extension he signed before this season.
But Collins' fit around Victor Wembanyama (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/5104157/victor-wembanyama) was murky. The Spurs started both bigs to open the season, and nudged Collins into a role as floor-spacing center; he is jacking 4.7 3s per 36 minutes, by far a career high. He is shooting 26.7%.


And these are wide-open shots. The nearest defender is about 9 feet from Collins on average when he takes 3s -- the 14th-highest figure among 295 players who have attempted at least 100 3s, per Second Spectrum.
For a while, Collins' persistence was admirable. It takes fortitude to chuck through slumps and groaning crowds. About 10 or 15 games ago, his determination crossed that threshold from plucky to demoralizing. It's time to turn more of those 3s into dribble handoffs and other actions.
That might happen organically. Collins is now a full-time center coming off the bench, meaning he can revert to diving to the rim and posting up mismatches. He is taking 3.6 3s per 36 minutes as a backup, down from 5.2 as a starter.
Collins has a mean, physical post game, and can flick hooks with either hand. He remains a reliable (if foul-prone) defender. There have been a lot of bigs who tried to stretch their range, discovered it didn't work and revived their careers by returning to the bruising basics.

I'm not totally writing off Collins as a low-volume 3-point shooter; he just turned 26. Perhaps the Spurs could design plays so more of Collins' 3s come from the corners.

[scott]

Just the fact that fans (us) are having even a remote discussion about waiving and stretching Collins is embarrassing. If that actually happened, it would have to be accompanied with Wright's resignation, that's how much of an embarrassment that would be.

[CGD]

Just the fact that fans (us) are having even a remote discussion about waiving and stretching Collins is embarrassing. If that actually happened, it would have to be accompanied with Wright's resignation, that's how much of an embarrassment that would be.

Those here who are serious about the idea waiving and stretching Zach are just dumbasses. It unserious.

Dumbasses

[MannyIsGod]

Just the fact that fans (us) are having even a remote discussion about waiving and stretching Collins is embarrassing. If that actually happened, it would have to be accompanied with Wright's resignation, that's how much of an embarrassment that would be.

Makes no sense to waive and stretch such a short duration contract unless that was the hurdle to some Free Agent move. I have a hard time believing that would ever be the case. There's no indication the Spurs are ready to give up on him either. Maybe he has to compete for the backup big job next season, but i do believe he'll be given a chance. He shouldn't even have the job on THIS roster, though, so I don't think he'll win it next year. But I do think he'll be given the chance.

[Bruno]

His ankle injury has just been a big turning point in his season. Before the injury, he was averaging 12.9ppg and 6.0rpg in 26mpg while shooting 50/31/79. Saying that, he wasn't as good as his stats showed with especially a so-so defense.

Pre-injury Collins is an average backup C worth $10M a year.
Post-injury Collins is one of the worst player of the league.

It seems that it's cathartic for some of you to endlessly trash/insult him but you had to be a little honest and recognize how the injury has affected him. If Collins could go back to the level he had in the first two months of the season, he would be a slightly overpaid fine backup C.

[Spurs Homer]

Zollins has surpassed Bonner as the Spurs biggest "minute-stealer" from other more deserving players.

Just a horrible waste of minutes.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

His ankle injury has just been a big turning point in his season. Before the injury, he was averaging 12.9ppg and 6.0rpg in 26mpg while shooting 50/31/79. Saying that, he wasn't as good as his stats showed with especially a so-so defense.

Pre-injury Collins is an average backup C worth $10M a year.
Post-injury Collins is one of the worst player of the league.

It seems that it's cathartic for some of you to endlessly trash/insult him but you had to be a little honest and recognize how the injury has affected him. If Collins could go back to the level he had in the first two months of the season, he would be a slightly overpaid fine backup C.

He has been moving around better.

[TD 21]

Which is why we need another defensive center. Barlow is solid but Collins should be playing pf off the bench along side Wemby or another 5 when Wembys getting rest. Sochan can play the 3 or 4 depending on matchups. I hope Toronto’s pick miracously conveys we could plug two big holes with solid top 10 talent

Collins doesn't have the ball skills nor mobility to play PF (which is primarily composed of big wings) in today's NBA.

[baseline bum]

No... Top-10 worst contracts, sure. But not top-10 worst players. Spurs have had some really bad ones over the years. Off the top of my head, guys like Jeff Ayers, Danny Ferry, Austin Daye, Steve Smith, Chucky Brown, Greg Anderson, Jack Haley, Mengke Bateer, etc. come to mind. Even Mamu and Champagnie on our current roster are worse.

Danny Ferry was a big part of helping the Spurs pull out a must win Game 2 over Phoenix in the 03 playoffs after David was hurt and Kevin Willis got suspended. If you're not old enough to remember, that Suns team was a matchup nightmare for the Spurs and had owned them all season in addition to stealing Game 1 of the series. Ferry definitely earned his ring with that performance. Don't get me wrong, he was a terrible starter for the 01 Spurs but he's very very very far from being on a list of worst Spurs.

[spurraider21]

Richard Jefferson was a worse contract. We traded a first to swap him with SJax even though he wasn’t expiring either, it was just a shorter contract by 1 year.

Though jax did play well down the stretch that first season. Was terrible the next year and then waived

Pau getting 3/48 was bad. 50 mills was bad. Parker’s last 3/43 or whatever was very bad

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Danny Ferry was a big part of helping the Spurs pull out a must win Game 2 over Phoenix in the 03 playoffs after David was hurt and Kevin Willis got suspended. If you're not old enough to remember, that Suns team was a matchup nightmare for the Spurs and had owned them all season in addition to stealing Game 1 of the series. Ferry definitely earned his ring with that performance. Don't get me wrong, he was a terrible starter for the 01 Spurs but he's very very very far from being on a list of worst Spurs.

Stoudamire/Nash/Pringles imploded nicely after that. Ferry and Willis gooning off the bench were key. Ferry getting in people's head was legendary.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H_Hpog8rAg

[baseline bum]

Richard Jefferson was a worse contract. We traded a first to swap him with SJax even though he wasn’t expiring either, it was just a shorter contract by 1 year.

Though jax did play well down the stretch that first season. Was terrible the next year and then waived

Pau getting 3/48 was bad. 50 mills was bad. Parker’s last 3/43 or whatever was very bad

At least the 3/48 for Gasol was a promise they made after asking him to take a paycut to sign CP0 back when that fucker was acting like he would come here. Had to live up to that one after getting him to opt out of his final year at $16 million.

[CGD]

Richard Jefferson was a worse contract. We traded a first to swap him with SJax even though he wasn’t expiring either, it was just a shorter contract by 1 year.

Though jax did play well down the stretch that first season. Was terrible the next year and then waived

Pau getting 3/48 was bad. 50 mills was bad. Parker’s last 3/43 or whatever was very bad

I didn’t mind the Jefferson trade at the time, but the extension was brutal.

[Knoxxx]

In fairness to Collins, many times the combination of Wemby at C and Sochan at PF has displayed plenty awful rim protection, once they lure Wemby out of the paint or use the rim to do a quick reverse layup or similar tactics to evade our one reliable shot blocker.

I’ll add that watching Collins try and defend the LeBron + AD two man game was especially brutal, though.

[sfernald]

This guy and his contract are gonna be the reason Wemby leaves..

[scott]

His only value at this point is using him to match salary in a trade. Otherwise, he is indeed a costly mistake that somewhat limits our options in FA, but who knows if that actually matters since FA classes are all garbage these days anyway.

[CGD]

This guy and his contract are gonna be the reason Wemby leaves..

Lol, no. On the contrary it’s more likely to be used for marching purposes in a Trae trade. Look at our salaries: we really don’t have many other ways to get to number we need for such a trade (assuming they’re still in love with Vassell).

[sfernald]

Lol, no. On the contrary it’s more likely to be used for marching purposes in a Trae trade. Look at our salaries: we really don’t have many other ways to get to number we need for such a trade (assuming they’re still in love with Vassell).

If they take the Collins contract back we will have to throw in an extra first!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Richard Jefferson was a worse contract. We traded a first to swap him with SJax even though he wasn’t expiring either, it was just a shorter contract by 1 year.

Though jax did play well down the stretch that first season. Was terrible the next year and then waived

Pau getting 3/48 was bad. 50 mills was bad. Parker’s last 3/43 or whatever was very bad

Perspective.

The fact this is the list of bad contracts the Spurs have had only shows how great we’ve had it as a fanbase.

[Atl Spur]

Perspective.

The fact this is the list of bad contracts the Spurs have had only shows how great we’ve had it as a fanbase.
^this

[Knoxxx]

Collins looked pretty bad but still got 17-8. If he could get his head out he could fool a trade partner into thinking he’s a serviceable backup big.

That may be the strategy. Polish the turd in preparation for the off season.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Collins looked pretty bad but still got 17-8. If he could get his head out he could fool a trade partner into thinking he’s a serviceable backup big.

That may be the strategy. Polish the turd in preparation for the off season.
17 points on 17 attempts is not ideal.

[exstatic]

The Venn diagram of posters stressing about Zack’s contract and posters who don’t care that trading for Trae means two contracts totaling $120M afterWemby’s DPE kicks in is a circle.

[Mugen]

^this

:lol

[The Truth #6]

I saw he made a few three pointers last night in the highlights. He's three point percentage most likely skyrocketed.

[DAF86]

This guy and his contract are gonna be the reason Wemby leaves..

Why? :lol

I don't get people bitching about Collins' contract. Next season he becomes a 17.5 mill expiring to make salaries match on a trade. Why yall sweating over it?

[DAF86]

If they take the Collins contract back we will have to throw in an extra first!

No, because Collins would be an expiring contract. Those are valuable on themselves for teams that want to open up cap space.

[get_mills_out]

?? he's fully guaranteed in 2025-26

[baseline bum]

Why? :lol

I don't get people bitching about Collins' contract. Next season he becomes a 17.5 mill expiring to make salaries match on a trade. Why yall sweating over it?

Nah it's season after next that he becomes an expiring. Next season is the first year of his two year extension.

[baseline bum]

If they take the Collins contract back we will have to throw in an extra first!

Doubtful. They could never move Collins on his own but if it's to match salary in a major trade it's not a big deal.

[venitian navigator]

Im not been worried about his contract once has been clear that this season was a tanking one...Collins has very good tecnique but not the best athleticism (also because of past injuries) so he has to play with effort and energy for becoming useful in a big man role. There is no motivation in playing your best effort orv a risky energy game if you know from the beginning that winning games is not the priority....Frankly I think he played hard for the contract he received and can reply that standard once the team goal will be winning again as many games as possible...the only thing he has to improve is his 3 point percentage because was considered his main offensive skill...but also that is probably just a psicologiocal gthing, because his shooting tecnique looks good...

[rjv]

The Venn diagram of posters stressing about Zack’s contract and posters who don’t care that trading for Trae means two contracts totaling $120M afterWemby’s DPE kicks in is a circle.

you probably lost some of them at "Venn diagram".

[DAF86]

Nah it's season after next that he becomes an expiring. Next season is the first year of his two year extension.

Damn, I'm rusty in all off court stuff. :lol

The contract is bad then, still not awful. This is probably colateral damage from projecting Wemby as anything other than center, smh. :bang

[baseline bum]

Damn, I'm rusty in all off court stuff. :lol

The contract is bad then, still not awful. This is probably colateral damage from projecting Wemby as anything other than center, smh. :bang

Think it was just a case of Collins playing hard in a contract year. Got fooled by the 37% three point shooting last year.

[spurraider21]

Why? :lol

I don't get people bitching about Collins' contract. Next season he becomes a 17.5 mill expiring to make salaries match on a trade. Why yall sweating over it?
hes not expiring next season

his contract runs through the 25-26 season

edit: didnt see the following posts

[sfernald]

Damn, Collin not only fooled spurs management and pop but half our fans too apparently.

[spurraider21]

He’s made 10 of his last 13 threes

[Atl Spur]

Damn, Collin not only fooled spurs management and pop but half our fans too apparently.

He’ll be fine or be part of a trade! No biggie…

[Knoxxx]

Collins clearly can score a bit and definitely gets involved when he’s in the game. He just doesn’t rebound or do much else and plays defense like a stiff.

[sfernald]

He’ll be fine or be part of a trade! No biggie…

yeah I was just mad in the moment, all good.

[ambchang]

If Zach can play like he did the last few games the entire year, he’d be a $15m/yr type of player, maybe $12m

[CGD]

If Zach can play like he did the last few games the entire year, he’d be a $15m/yr type of player, maybe $12m

I agree. I think he’s been better. The focus on verticality defensively in recent games has been good. It’s cut down on some (but not all) of the stupid fouling.

Many public commentators have also observed that the refs are letting the players be more physically after a league crack down on cheap offense— this benefits a player like Zach.

[KingKev]

The contract may have been an overpay given expectations and this season’s performance but he is one of the few ppl on this team who has fking balls. Ppl were pretty low on D White once upon a time expecting him to be something more than a high end role player; Zach has the ability to be a high end role player on a team in contention in a similar fashion. The problem is we are so damn fucking far from contention it doesn’t really matter.

[JPB]

Zach has the ability to be a high end role player on a team in contention in a similar fashion. The problem is we are so damn fucking far from contention it doesn’t really matter.

Zollins is a third stringer at best. you don't want him to have any kind of real role in a contending team. Way too limited.

[RC_Drunkford]

no, Collins lacks the main thing you need from a center: being able to protect the rim. Pop is playing Sochan next to him more to help him with that and he has looked better since.

[SupremeGuy]

He's been better lately tbh.

[BatManu20]

Zollins suffers from classic white-guy hooper syndrome. Short arms and a lack of high-end athleticism renders him a liability defensively, no matter who’s hard he tries. NBA players are just too big and athletic for someone of his pigment to try and protect the rim against them tbh.

[itzsoweezee]

The worst defensive center in the NBA. He’s basically a traffic cone

[Atl Spur]

He’s a PF; stretch 4

[KingKev]

He’s a PF; stretch 4

Just needs to add a 3 point shot lol but honestly if he did he probably would be a very solid stretch 4. He has a role in the league for sure with that tenacity and soft touch around the rim when he is confident.

[KobesAchilles]

Isn’t he shooting like 20% from 3 this year? How is he a stretch 4 :lol

[scott]

Collins and Branham both seem to suffer from this affliction where they can only play good basketball after the all-star break.

[JPB]

He's been better lately tbh.

yeah, he's not atrocious anymore. He's just mediocre now.

Hard to see any real future next for a big who can't protect the rim nor stretch the floor.

[Atl Spur]

Isn’t he shooting like 20% from 3 this year? How is he a stretch 4 :lol

31% this year. 37% last year and 34% the year before…. Anymore questions? You knew better but still tried it smh!

[Atl Spur]

yeah, he's not atrocious anymore. He's just mediocre now.

Hard to see any real future next for a big who can't protect the rim nor stretch the floor.

If you say so:) Bro, Zach’s just getting back to his norm; hopefully he leads the bench properly next year.

[spurraider21]

Zollins suffers from classic white-guy hooper syndrome. Short arms and a lack of high-end athleticism renders him a liability defensively, no matter who’s hard he tries. NBA players are just too big and athletic for someone of his pigment to try and protect the rim against them tbh.
Kessler, Holmgren, Poeltl are good rim protectors

[itzsoweezee]

31% this year. 37% last year and 34% the year before…. Anymore questions? You knew better but still tried it smh!

In other words, he’s not a stretch four

[JPB]

In other words, he’s not a stretch four

He's definitely not a 4. Doesn't have the mobility nor the moves for that in modern BB. And if he can't really shoot at that, hard to call the guy a "stretch 4"... He's an undersized non rim protecting, non rebounding, non defending center. And if he can't knock a couple 3s a game, he's basically just a stiff out there.

He still has a few moments like other average guys on this team, and like in any bad, tanking/rebuidling team with no real hierarchy where night in, night out, some guy will feel it and drop 20... But in any competitive team, these guys are supposed to have clear roles and a specific skill they're good at and consistent with...

[itzsoweezee]

He's definitely not a 4. Doesn't have the mobility nor the moves for that in modern BB. And if he can't really shoot at that, hard to call the guy a "stretch 4"... He's an undersized non rim protecting, non rebounding, non defending center. And if he can't knock a couple 3s a game, he's basically just a stiff out there.

He still has a few moments like other average guys on this team, and like in any bad, tanking/rebuidling team with no real hierarchy where night in, night out, some guy will feel it and drop 20... But in any competitive team, these guys are supposed to have clear roles and a specific skill they're good at and consistent with...

Nothing more needs to be said

[spurraider21]

Zollins looks like he'd have been a 4 in the 90s or early 2000s where basically everybody started 2 centers and just called the shorter of them the power forward

[RC_Drunkford]

You just can't win with an undersized center. He's a poor man's Sabonis and the Kings aren't going anywhere with Sabonis just like the Pacers did. The only way to mask his weakness if you play two 6'10 wings next to him like Denver is doing with Joker (although he's a legit 7 footer).

[LeBowen]

You just can't win with an undersized center. He's a poor man's Sabonis and the Kings aren't going anywhere with Sabonis just like the Pacers did. The only way to mask his weakness if you play two 6'10 wings next to him like Denver is doing with Joker (although he's a legit 7 footer).

The issue that we aren't even comparing him with starters, but backups.
He's probably one of the highest paid backups in the league and he's easily worse than at least 25 of them.

We're lucky that contract is a perfect filler for salary matching, but he really has to go this summer. He's a detriment to other bigs on the roster.
Barlow deserves minutes and yet Pop's solution last night was to play him together with both Collins and Wemby, even though Warriors had no size whatsoever.

What I don't understand was why did they rush with his extension?
Yeah, it was a feel good story about an unlikely comeback, but noone was lining up to offer him 32 million.

[KobesAchilles]

31% this year. 37% last year and 34% the year before…. Anymore questions? You knew better but still tried it smh!
No I mean 2024. I’m pretty sure he’s in the 20% from 3 point line. Dude has been garbage from 3 the whole calendar year. And 31% is totally stretch 4 material tbh… for a losing team.

[The Truth #6]

Collins and Branham both seem to suffer from this affliction where they can only play good basketball after the all-star break.

Exactly. They're clutch!!!!!!

[Atl Spur]

No I mean 2024. I’m pretty sure he’s in the 20% from 3 point line. Dude has been garbage from 3 the whole calendar year. And 31% is totally stretch 4 material tbh… for a losing team.

You guys! lol. I respond from my phone hence the shorter responses but at some time you boys have to use the noodle and connect a to b. This year isn’t his best agreed and we will all agree:)

[Atl Spur]

Btw, is Evan Mobley a stretch 4? I’ll wait

[Dejounte]

This guy fucking sucks and will be out of the league in a few years.

[JeffDuncan]

Isn’t he shooting like 20% from 3 this year? How is he a stretch 4 :lol


That must mean it’s a stretch to see him as a 4.

However, would Zollins be worse as a 4 than as a C? Maybe not. Not much of a recommendation, to argue he can be equally bad at more than one position. Call it position-less basketball, I suppose.

Have people seen how he guards on the perimeter? One thing about that, you wouldn’t have to worry about him being blown by at the rim. He’d already be blown by long before the guy with the ball gets to the rim.

But I do hope - sincerely, no kidding - that he comes on strong, to justify his place on the roster. My fingers are crossed for him.

[Atl Spur]

This guy fucking sucks and will be out of the league in a few years.

lol…… one of the best talent evaluation orgs in the business didn’t think so:) However sometimes we all get it wrong myself included. Define a few years for us….

[Atl Spur]

That must mean it’s a stretch to see him as a 4.

However, would Zollins be worse as a 4 than as a C? Maybe not. Not much of a recommendation, to argue he can be equally bad at more than one position. Call it position-less basketball, I suppose.

Have people seen how he guards on the perimeter? One thing about that, you wouldn’t have to worry about him being blown by at the rim. He’d already be blown by long before the guy with the ball gets to the rim.

But I do hope - sincerely, no kidding - that he comes on strong, to justify his place on the roster. My fingers are crossed for him.

He’s more 4 than 5; let’s not beat a dead horse.

[ambchang]

Zollins is a big man tweener. Too slow for a 4 but too weak for a 5. He has some good passing skills and shooting for a big (this year is really an aberration, I still think he can shoot), and he is tough. But he just isn’t built to play in today’s league. Maybe 15 years ago he’d have a roll as a 4

[Sugus]

Zollins is a big man tweener. Too slow for a 4 but too weak for a 5. He has some good passing skills and shooting for a big (this year is really an aberration, I still think he can shoot), and he is tough. But he just isn’t built to play in today’s league. Maybe 15 years ago he’d have a roll as a 4

Injuries have taken their toll on his body as well, nevermind the tweener stuff. I liked the contract at the time, and still don't think it's too bad, but if this year's Zollins is who he will be moving forward, then he's trade fodder at best, sadly.

Hate to see players' bodies break down like that. I like his demeanor on the court... He had a nasty block yesterday against the Rockets, wears his heart on his sleeve in that regard.

[RC_Drunkford]

The issue that we aren't even comparing him with starters, but backups.
He's probably one of the highest paid backups in the league and he's easily worse than at least 25 of them.

We're lucky that contract is a perfect filler for salary matching, but he really has to go this summer. He's a detriment to other bigs on the roster.
Barlow deserves minutes and yet Pop's solution last night was to play him together with both Collins and Wemby, even though Warriors had no size whatsoever.

What I don't understand was why did they rush with his extension?
Yeah, it was a feel good story about an unlikely comeback, but noone was lining up to offer him 32 million.

it was basically market value for his production from last season. I said before the number should be around 17 million per year. What made them think to lock him in, cause he'd get more expensive if they don't is a mystery to me. I thought it was clear that the Spurs would let him hit free agency. Dumb move to extend him.

[JeffDuncan]

it was basically market value for his production from last season. I said before the number should be around 17 million per year. What made them think to lock him in, cause he'd get more expensive if they don't is a mystery to me. I thought it was clear that the Spurs would let him hit free agency. Dumb move to extend him.


Zollins’ contract extension, last October, was based on the Spurs’ plan for him to be a starter beside Wemby. That’s why the Spurs gave Zollins a starter amount of money just before the season began, 3 days before the first game. It must have looked good in practice, and after the preseason. I suppose it did.

Verdict on the plan: fail.

Maybe next season we’ll see a plan that succeeds. Maybe.

[vy65]

Him and Keldon both in the top 10 worst contract draft on the Simmons pod

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Him and Keldon both in the top 10 worst contract draft on the Simmons pod

That was a legitimately horrible list by them. Wasted time listening to it.

Collins’s wasn’t on their list, tbh. Their research and effort was incredibly poor.

[ambchang]

Him and Keldon both in the top 10 worst contract draft on the Simmons pod

How is keldon on that list? His contract is pretty good.

[KobesAchilles]

How is keldon on that list? His contract is pretty good.
Bc bench player chuckers who play no defense don’t get 20+ million a year. We paid him as if he were a starter and he isn’t one.

[ambchang]

Bc bench player chuckers who play no defense don’t get 20+ million a year. We paid him as if he were a starter and he isn’t one.

It’s comparable to OG, Bojan, hunter and duncan robinson money. And OG will have a huge raise this summer while Robinson signed a few years back.

[Bruno]

Few days/weeks ago, Olynyk signed a 2 years for $26.2M extension with Toronto and I think they have both a similar market value. Olynyk is the superior player but he is turning 33.
Another way of seeing it is that a MLE contract over 2 years should be this summer about $26.8M/2 years. I think he would get that this summer.

Spurs gave Collins $34.8M/2 years, that's about $4M too much per year with a projected salary cap of $141M. I'm certainly not losing any sleep over that.

[Seventyniner]

Few days/weeks ago, Olynyk signed a 2 years for $26.2M extension with Toronto and I think they have both a similar market value. Olynyk is the superior player but he is turning 33.
Another way of seeing it is that a MLE contract over 2 years should be this summer about $26.8M/2 years. I think he would get that this summer.

Spurs gave Collins $34.8M/2 years, that's about $4M too much per year with a projected salary cap of $141M. I'm certainly not losing any sleep over that.

Me neither. It's a bad contract but nowhere near crippling.

[Splits]

just glad he finally lost the headband.

[timtonymanu]

I find it hilarious that the Spurs video to him just says “Thank You Zach Collins,” while the tribute video to Tre said “Thank you for Everything, Tre Jones!”

[scott]

I find it hilarious that the Spurs video to him just says “Thank You Zach Collins,” while the tribute video to Tre said “Thank you for Everything, Tre Jones!”

First draft of the Zach video just said "thx"

[stephen jackson]

he sucked so bad

[KingKev]

You can get away with sucking at basketball if you are a nice person. Flipping the bird AND sucking at basketball is exile.

[RC_Drunkford]

In the end it all worked out and he got us De‘Aaron Fox. Thank you Zach, enjoy your 50 million dollars

[rankingtear]

At the end of the day it was a good salary matching contract post cap floor era.

[KingKev]

At the end of the day it was a good salary matching contract post cap floor era.

Yeah but post Kawhi era has seen a third of our salary cap tied up in dead cap every year and this needs to end.

[quentin_compson]

First draft of the Zach video just said "thx"

Nah, the first draft said "thx" while simultaneously flipping him off.

[ambchang]

I liked zach energy and he always hustles, just that the results are pretty bad. Like that kid on the JV team who runs around and gives his all but just make things worse.

You have to respect his attitude though. And he’s way richer than I will ever be.

[Seventyniner]

Imagine the meltdown here if the Bulls cut Zollins and the Spurs re-sign him for the minimum.

Yes, I know this can't happen. It's just funny to think about.

[ChumpDumper]

I mean he'd probably be worth it in that case.

[scott]

Zollins is an elite level Towel Waiver. Would love to have him on a vet minimum.

[spurraider21]

still cant believe we were able to unload this contract in the Fox trade. dude was literally our Nurkic (non-impactful center fallen out of the rotation, under contract to earn 18 mil next season), and the suns had to give up a first just to get off of him. we got to ship him off in a deal where we landed fuckin Fox

[dn0774]

still cant believe we were able to unload this contract in the Fox trade. dude was literally our Nurkic (non-impactful center fallen out of the rotation, under contract to earn 18 mil next season), and the suns had to give up a first just to get off of him. we got to ship him off in a deal where we landed fuckin Fox

Exactly this, not even having to see his name on the depth chart next year will be a gift that keeps on giving. I'm hoping the Hawks pick can jump a few spots and get us one of the big 4 in this coming draft class and perhaps our pick can be used on a mid to late lottery big.

[Arguendo]

still cant believe we were able to unload this contract in the Fox trade. dude was literally our Nurkic (non-impactful center fallen out of the rotation, under contract to earn 18 mil next season), and the suns had to give up a first just to get off of him. we got to ship him off in a deal where we landed fuckin Fox
Same, Collins was such a bad contract.
Meanwhile, Spurs got Harrison Barnes and a Sac Swap for assisting. That is not much less than-

Bulls in:
2 2nds + a $6M expiring
Zollins bad K, Tre's $9M expiring, and their own top 1/3 protected '25
Josh Giddey with a trade exception

Bulls Out: DeMar S&T, Lavine (salary relief, but still he's a 24/5/5 guy on 45% today), and Caruso

That's, ugh, not great value. One of these FOs is better than the other. We should talk to Chi before the lottery...
See if we can get Buzelis and their '25 for Keldon and the Sac Swap :lmao

[Leetonidas]

still cant believe we were able to unload this contract in the Fox trade. dude was literally our Nurkic (non-impactful center fallen out of the rotation, under contract to earn 18 mil next season), and the suns had to give up a first just to get off of him. we got to ship him off in a deal where we landed fuckin Fox

Brian keeps getting it Wright

[Arguendo]

Is it possible for Zach to end up back here this year? Like could he sign with another team, get cut, and then get picked up by us.
I'd rather have Bamba, but the Spurs love their corporate knowledge

[exstatic]

Is it possible for Zach to end up back here this year? Like could he sign with another team, get cut, and then get picked up by us.
I'd rather have Bamba, but the Spurs love their corporate knowledge

No. Not possible. Teams did this for years, but as soon as the Spurs did it with Brent Barry, they outlawed it. I believe it’s a full year at a minimum before you can return to your trading team.

[tbdog]

No. Not possible. Teams did this for years, but as soon as the Spurs did it with Brent Barry, they outlawed it. I believe it’s a full year at a minimum before you can return to your trading team.

I believe if he signed with another team and gets waived, then the Spurs can trade him. Another option is if the Bulls traded Collins to another team and that team waives him, Spurs can sign him.

[scott]

Is it possible for Zach to end up back here this year? Like could he sign with another team, get cut, and then get picked up by us.
I'd rather have Bamba, but the Spurs love their corporate knowledge

The bad man can't hurt us anymore. We are safe.

[sfernald]

Dude this guy sucked.

[couchman]

He had half of a decent season when we were tanking and then sucked at all other times.
That we managed to unload him at no cost in this trade is his best contribution as a Spur.
God speed Zach Collins!

[Knoxxx]

He was a good dude that showed some promise as a reclamation project. Seemed he could be a solid modern stretch big. When his 3 PT% tanked and injury bug reemerged it was time to cut bait. No hard feelings about that, he was a well intentioned Spur who kept a good team attitude until the end. We had cap money to blow at the time. No harm no foul going forward.

[NASpurs]

Only way Zollins would get any playing time on the Bulls is if they were down 40... which they are right now. Imagine being a franchise that gave him minutes otherwise.

[timtonymanu]

Only way Zollins would get any playing time on the Bulls is if they were down 40... which they are right now. Imagine being a franchise that gave him minutes otherwise.

He was objectively having a good season, what you talking about?

[buttsR4rebounding]

And if he didn’t have such a large contract the Spurs would have had to include another rotation player in the deal.

[baseline bum]

Only way Zollins would get any playing time on the Bulls is if they were down 40... which they are right now. Imagine being a franchise that gave him minutes otherwise.

Jesus Christ, I don't think I have ever seen a halftime score of 71-29.

Also Zollins in a Bulls jersey; just inject that shit straight into my veins.

https://i.ibb.co/tTYGFJpW/zollins.jpg

No class from the Bulls though, not letting Zach keep his number. Also feels bad seeing Tre there.

[scott]

Jesus Christ, I don't think I have ever seen a halftime score of 71-29.

Also Zollins in a Bulls jersey; just inject that shit straight into my veins.

https://i.ibb.co/tTYGFJpW/zollins.jpg

No class from the Bulls though, not letting Zach keep his number. Also feels bad seeing Tre there.

I think a change.org petition to unretire #23 for Zollins is in order

[Dex]

Hey now. We should give kudos to our fine tank-commander for his time here, he got the job done.

Now I need to find somebody else to complain about.

[Jordan Jackson]

Good to see Collins and Jones brought their infectious losing ways to the Bulls.

[John B]

And if he didn’t have such a large contract the Spurs would have had to include another rotation player in the deal.

That was so clairvoyant of our front office :lol

[J_Paco]

Zach was good his first year or two after getting over all the injuries that had accumulated (in Portland). He just couldn't handle an increased role or higher expectations which is really, really disappointing for him and the team.

He also had the issue of not being good as a full-time center or as a 'stretch 4.' It sucks cause had his shooting and defense not fallen off then his passing (in the high-post) could still be extremely useful.

Not to mention his 'fake tough' antics that always came back to bite him in the ass cause he's (literally) not built like that. I hope can figure it out elsewhere and stick around in the NBA cause he seemed like a good guy/teammate.

[jjspur]

By no means am I a Zollins fan , and to be fair he did have some skills - just not 17 million dollars worth of skills. I wonder who the dumbass in the spurs front office that offered him that contract. In many cases like this, its always about the money.

[kht]

I remember his first two weeks as a Spur... came out guns blazing. Rebounds, hustle plays, post-play and the occasionally stretch 4/5 three pointer. Walmart Jokic stat-stuffer.

[spursparker9]

Zollins with near triple double against LAC

21 pts 17 rebs 7 asts 2 stls

[scott]

He's finally found a home, good for Zach. He was a good soldier (when he wasn't flipping off refs)

[Ice009]

Darn! I knew he was capable. Good for him. It's good to see guys perform that the Spurs traded (don't want the trades to look too lopsided) as it'll make other teams more willing to trade with the Spurs.

Having said that, I wonder how Zach would have looked the rest of the season (if he was still with the Spurs) now that Victor is out for the season.

[Ni-G]

Darn! I knew he was capable. Good for him. It's good to see guys perform that the Spurs traded (don't want the trades to look too lopsided) as it'll make other teams more willing to trade with the Spurs.

Having said that, I wonder how Zach would have looked the rest of the season (if he was still with the Spurs) now that Victor is out for the season.

I can tell you that with this coaching he would look him usual self waving towel on the bench.

[John B]

Darn! I knew he was capable. Good for him. It's good to see guys perform that the Spurs traded (don't want the trades to look too lopsided) as it'll make other teams more willing to trade with the Spurs.

Having said that, I wonder how Zach would have looked the rest of the season (if he was still with the Spurs) now that Victor is out for the season.

It means no Sochan at backup C

[Strategic]

Like most of the Spurs this season he was handicapped by a lack of offensive structure.

[stephen jackson]

He still sucks I’m glad he’s gone

[Kevin]

Not sure how but Zollins has pretty good advanced stats this season.

WS/48:136
BPM: 0.2
ORTG: 122 DRTG: 114

Go figure.

[exstatic]

Not sure how but Zollins has pretty good advanced stats this season.

WS/48:136
BPM: 0.2
ORTG: 122 DRTG: 114

Go figure.
It’s almost like he’s not as bad as people here think he is…

[Kevin]

It’s almost like he’s not as bad as people here think he is…

I was leaning towards small sample size anomaly. Zollins looked bad this season with weak counting stats.

[itzsoweezee]

It’s almost like he’s not as bad as people here think he is…

He sucks.

[NASpurs]

Good for him, seems like he's turning the corner these past two games.

[spurraider21]

Not sure how but Zollins has pretty good advanced stats this season.

WS/48:136
BPM: 0.2
ORTG: 122 DRTG: 114

Go figure.
objectively good tbh

[sfernald]

I doubt he will be in the league next year. He's playing for NBL next year.

[exstatic]

I was leaning towards small sample size anomaly. Zollins looked bad this season with weak counting stats.

A nod to the flaw of counting stats. Two players both score 20ppg. One takes 18 shots, and rarely gets to the line. The other takes 14 shots, and lives at the line. Are they equally valuable?

It’s like the Bowen/Kobe dynamic. Bruce never really shut down Kobe. What he did was make him work like a dog to get his usual points by focusing on scoring instead of scoring AND playmaking. Those extra shots he needed to get his points were shots that didn’t go to his usual support players like Fish and Horry. Bowen made their whole team less efficient by making Kobe less efficient, but if you looked at the box score, he got his usual points.

[scott]

He might have a chance to return to end-of-career Gorgui Deing levels of impact. Objectively good.

https://i.imgur.com/juKHSNn.png

[ambchang]

Small sample but this is what happens when limited (role) players have a clear role. They don’t have to think too much, do what limited few things they had to do and just focus on those.

The spurs need a system. Get the most out of these limited guys and at least get the sum of the parts.

[scott]

In the end, Zach Collins was not a culture fit

[couchman]

Im more convinced than ever that we need a new coaching staff.
We also need to continue to add veteran role players.
Collins still sucks but he has some usable traits that we never used here.

[z0sa]

Small sample but this is what happens when limited (role) players have a clear role. They don’t have to think too much, do what limited few things they had to do and just focus on those.

The spurs need a system. Get the most out of these limited guys and at least get the sum of the parts.

Yeah, more and more, it's clear to me our biggest issue is coaching, followed by roster construction.

We need a roster that allows for (good) coaching to maximize our role player contributions. We've built a roster that feels very Nellie-ball oriented without any of the stuff (like dribble drives from multiple position, great passing from a point forward/center type though Wemby could fill this role if the roster was better, and a score of ace shooters) that makes a Nellie-ball style work.

[Knoxxx]

Collins is ok but his main flaws of inadequate rim protection and poor 3 PT shooting remain.

[dn0774]

Collins is ok but his main flaws of inadequate rim protection and poor 3 PT shooting remain.

Agree’d. The concerning early takeaway is that Collins looks like an actual NBA player with the Bulls but didn’t with the Spurs. The question is why.

[Manu-of-steel]

3 straight double double for Zollins. Tre Jones also with 2 digit scoring for 3rd time off the bench. They look capable. Could it be the Spurs coaching style?

[exstatic]

Agree’d. The concerning early takeaway is that Collins looks like an actual NBA player with the Bulls but didn’t with the Spurs. The question is why.

Usage. If you get enough touches, any player can score 20 points regularly. Also, if you’re regularly putting up shots, you’re more relaxed, and not thinking “OMG, this is one of my 5 shots for the game, it had better go in!”.

[scott]

3 straight double double for Zollins. Tre Jones also with 2 digit scoring for 3rd time off the bench. They look capable. Could it be the Spurs coaching style?

Could just be Collins doing exactly what he did before we drafted Wemby… showing up big in meaningless games.

[Raven]

collins was playing well with us up a certain point when mitch started his bs. however he was still getting scored on a lot, despite playing high quality D, contesting vertically and stuff, this usually doesn't last, and it isn't.

[objective]

Not surprised Donovan is able to coach up players, he always outcoached Pop at least

Unless my memory is ruined Chicago had a pretty good defense by the numbers a couple of years ago with Vuc and DeRozan starting, he's a good coach.

Better for us to have Chicago pass San Antonio in the standings, get up to that 8th spot in the lottery

[rankingtear]

He is getting more minutes and a more wide open offense.

[slick'81]

Who gives a shit? We got foxx

[exstatic]

I don’t care what he does as long as he shows out in the 9/10 play in game, and sends ATL packing.

[ambchang]

Who gives a shit? We got foxx

Point is to win games aNd compete for playoffs then titles. Can’t do that with a system that minimizes the impact of the players we have.

Zach didn’t get usage because he sucked here. His play was absolutely terrible but now in Chicago, which has higher stake games than the spurs, he looks at least half way competent. Yeah sure his rim protection still sucks but if he could do everything hed he an all star. He’s now a competent starter level guy, whereas he wasn’t even g league worthy with the spurs. Hell, I’d be happy if he could play like a decent bench player back when he was here.

My conclusions are:
1) new environment allows him to reset
2) little scouting of him in this new role. He will cool down. But he’s still be a much better player after he cooled down than he was with us
3) the coaching here limited him because there was no system. And this is consistent with almost every player on the spurs. They all showed promise at one point in their careers (or even this season) but then got yanked around and got steadily worse. KJ, Vassell, Tre, zollins, sochan, champaigne. Even Wesley showed some potential but never got anywhere. I left out Malaki because he really showed nothing. All of their progresses looked like the stock market in 2008 (or 2026), it just falls off the bloody cliff. I can see a few players not panning out after peaking early in their careers, but every single one? I find that shocking.
Even wemby isn’t no hitting hit potential so far, he’s just extra terrestrially talented. You guys wait a few years of castle with this coaching staff and lack of system. You will turn against him.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The overanalysing of Zollins’s 3 games is unnecessary, as we’ve already witnessed the same from him in the half a season after Poeltl was traded. He’s not a bad player, he can put some numbers when given an extended opportunity. He’s also not very good, especially next to Wemby. He was overpaid for what he could offer.

But he’s not as bad as he was showing in his last couple of months as a Spur, he was in a funk, just like Keldon was and Vassell is right now. It’s just that there’s mostly black and white in the internets and no shades. Also this forum has been oversaturated by people who love a proper moan.

[ambchang]

Totally agree it is an over-analyze on my part, but I guess it is the straw that broke this camel's back. I am getting progressively more annoyed at what is happening with the product out on the floor, and I pretty much attribute it almost entirely on the coaching and developmental staff at this point. I am not going to pretend that Zollins is an $18M/year player or a good player, but I think he does have a role in this league and is not as atrociously bad as he's been the last two years he was with us. His advanced stats were absolutely eye-gougingly bad the last two years and I actually thought it was because he sucked. Maybe he still sucked, but for him to go from a -0.2 BPM to a +0.3 in 6 games with CHI is pretty crazy. His per 36 is actually similar between SAS and CHI, other than the crazy drop in fouls, increase in rebounding, FTs and efficiency. He has been put into a totally different role that he is capable of playing with SAS, and he struggled. I am arguing that PATFO are putting square players in a round role, and they can't adapt, because these are role players. A player like Wemby can thrive in anything, but a player like KJ, Sochan, Vassell, Tre, Zollins, Champaigne, can't. They are role players, they aren't other-worldly talents, so the job of PATFO is either:
1) Design a system around Wemby that can allow these role players to maximize their contributions. How do you allow a player like KJ to go inside and score? How do you allow a player like Sochan to roll to basket more and maximize his rebounding strength? How do you let him set good screens? How do you get Vassell to get to open spots for shots while Wemby draws the attention of 2 or 3 defenders? How do you allow a player like Tre to run an efficient low-error offence and hold down the fort with the second uint? How do you let Champaigne get clean looks out at the 3 point line? How do you let Zollins come in and sub for Wemby and not ask him to be Wemby 0.1, but have a system where he can actually contribute?
2) Design a system around Wemby, evaluate the players. Get rid of the players who do not fit that system, then attain the players who do fit that system either through signings, trades or the draft.

PATFO is now stuck in the middle, doing neither, or both. I don't know, and it's not working. It hasn't been working the last two years with Wemby, and it didn't work for the 4 or 5 years prior to that before Wemby. What is PATFO doing? I don't know, and the scary part is that they don't seem to know.

I am most definitely jumping to conclusions if it's just Zollins, but it isn't. All the young players other than Wemby look like turds out there. It's probably not the hill I should die on with Zollins but it's just one more data point.

PATFO, if anyone is reading this, please pick a lane. I still maintain there is potential with these players, just design a system.

[Rocalcio]

Another solid double-double from him last night

[cd98]

Maybe the fans in Chicago are more supportive of their players and don't wish them to be traded for nothing.

[Chinook]

I think it's going to be hard for the Spurs to have a consistently good back up center with the way they've been playing Wemby (before the condition, obviously). You can't come in for two minutes at a time and really get something going. Maybe when Victor comes back, he will have a more traditional minutes allocation, and the Spurs could create a role for a center rather than it being a flex position. That said, Collins was a decent player for most of his time with the Spurs. STers are like chickens who have to peck something to death the moment they see a little blood. They absolutely should continue adding talent when they can, but this is going to take time no matter what. Like it'll take at least another two years. Hopefully, folks won't start trying to push them to make a second trade for a star. The Fox deal was only fine because of the value they gave up. They basically can't make a trade now without cutting into their meat, and they're not close to being ready to do that.

[widowmaker]

Maybe the fans in Chicago are more supportive of their players and don't wish them to be traded for nothing.


So a player needs support from the fans to do what they get paid millions to do playing a game. Sure.

[Spurs Homer]

Good for zollins and good that he is not on the spurs...

even biyombo makes zollins look bad....

[exstatic]

I think it's going to be hard for the Spurs to have a consistently good back up center with the way they've been playing Wemby (before the condition, obviously). You can't come in for two minutes at a time and really get something going. Maybe when Victor comes back, he will have a more traditional minutes allocation, and the Spurs could create a role for a center rather than it being a flex position. That said, Collins was a decent player for most of his time with the Spurs. STers are like chickens who have to peck something to death the moment they see a little blood. They absolutely should continue adding talent when they can, but this is going to take time no matter what. Like it'll take at least another two years. Hopefully, folks won't start trying to push them to make a second trade for a star. The Fox deal was only fine because of the value they gave up. They basically can't make a trade now without cutting into their meat, and they're not close to being ready to do that.

Truer words were never spoken. Just wait for a hiccup in Castle’s development curve, and the hate will flow.

[scott]

I think it's going to be hard for the Spurs to have a consistently good back up center with the way they've been playing Wemby (before the condition, obviously). You can't come in for two minutes at a time and really get something going. Maybe when Victor comes back, he will have a more traditional minutes allocation, and the Spurs could create a role for a center rather than it being a flex position. That said, Collins was a decent player for most of his time with the Spurs. STers are like chickens who have to peck something to death the moment they see a little blood. They absolutely should continue adding talent when they can, but this is going to take time no matter what. Like it'll take at least another two years. Hopefully, folks won't start trying to push them to make a second trade for a star. The Fox deal was only fine because of the value they gave up. They basically can't make a trade now without cutting into their meat, and they're not close to being ready to do that.

Yes, Zach Collins was objectively good this season... Spurs fans are just mean.

https://i.imgur.com/GUEjETM.png

[Obstructed_View]

Truer words were never spoken. Just wait for a hiccup in Castle’s development curve, and the hate will flow.
TIL consistently being the worst player on the court since the beginning of the season is "a hiccup". :lmao

[Leetonidas]

Man who fucking cares if he's had a few solid games. He is garbage. We all witnessed the same shit and it had nothing to do about how he was coached or whatever. Collins getting repeatedly abused on defense while clanking shots on offense consistently is not Mitch or Pops fault. We all watched this dude play and saw him get dominated night in and night out. He had a pretty long leash and never played as well as he did after Spurs traded Jak in 2022/2023. He will eventually revert to sucking ass again. I don't care if he's strung together some solid outings. We watched him flounder for years and it had nothing to do with how he was used. PF, Center, didn't matter, he was consistently outmatched and every time he stepped on the court the other team went on a run. We all witnessed it

[scott]

Man who fucking cares if he's had a few solid games. He is garbage. We all witnessed the same shit and it had nothing to do about how he was coached or whatever. Collins getting repeatedly abused on defense while clanking shots on offense consistently is not Mitch or Pops fault. We all watched this dude play and saw him get dominated night in and night out. He had a pretty long leash and never played as well as he did after Spurs traded Jak in 2022/2023. He will eventually revert to sucking ass again. I don't care if he's strung together some solid outings. We watched him flounder for years and it had nothing to do with how he was used. PF, Center, didn't matter, he was consistently outmatched and every time he stepped on the court the other team went on a run. We all witnessed it

Yes, it is apparently SpursTalk members' fault for being meanie-heads.

[LeBowen]

Anyone who thinks that there was even a 1% chance of Collins being a positive contributor for the Spurs should stop following basketball alltogether.
Not just stop, but get banned from it.

[Chinook]

You're on a dinner-date, and the restaurant messed up your food. So you go ballistic at the waiter to point that your date leaves. Then you go to hang out with your boys and complained that "the restaurant ruined your date".

Three things can be true:

1) Collins wasn't holding up, and it was good that he was used as ballast in the trade
2) It's going to be a struggle to find a center who can be consistently effective in numerous short stints rather than two sustained stints like most backups get
3) STers have a habit of shitting themselves inside-out whenever they feel like they have a beef. Whether that beef has merit doesn't prevent them from being covered in shit and viscera.

[timtonymanu]

Crying over a guy that is statpadding on a lottery team with no pressure :lol. Idk care if Chicago is in the play in in the shitty ass Eastern conference. Zollins was garbage and should never be in the rotation on any team serious about contending for the playoffs..

[scott]

I love the "ST are meanies" thought pieces that come up any time someone's bad takes get exposed as bad. Regale us with more analogies please. These are fun.

Three things can be true:

1) People on SpursTalk hold a wide range of opinions, each of them holding equal weight as one another as nothing more than individual opinions
2) People having a different opinion on a player doesn't equate to "shitting themselves inside-out"
3) You were wrong about Zach Collins

Maybe we need a Safe Space Forum for certain posters so they can be protected from opinions that challenge them, so that no one has to be encouraged to kill themselves