Game Thread: San Antonio Spurs at New York Knicks November 8th, 2023 | 6:30 PM CT

[Chomag]

They just are not a well coached team

[Mikeanaro]

I want Jambalaya ball, not the other guys trying to save the day.

[Frenchfred]

Man....Im not even hopefull another lottery pick can improve this team....We gotta gut this whole roster..
Role players are terrible,No talent,no iq,And no heart...

agreed. The team needs a good PG (Luka?) + a backup, one more 3-point shooter, a center who can rebound and defend.

[timtonymanu]

Lol Pop. Maybe we should have replaced him with Udoka. Udoka doesn’t have his head up his ass like Pop does.

[sananspursfan21]

This is sad. Tre can stay. Vassell can stay. I could take or leave Keldon. Everyone else can leave.

[skin27]

Stupid pop.. he should make wemby the first option in every damn game..

[Frenchfred]

Wemby looking like a bust.smh

not a bust but not the stud that people think he is. He has potential but he has a lot to learn, he is far from being Duncan when he joined the league but with 1-2 more years he should be fine.

[FkLA]

They're completely non-competitive. This isn't just losing. You'd think at some point the players and coaches would start getting him involved. The only time they've been able to compete this year is when he's a big part of what the team does. Just run shit through him. It can't be worse than losing by 30 every fucking game.

:pctoss

[weebo]

this team totally looks disorganized, outmatched and to be honest incompetent....I get it that they're a young team and a team that hasn't been together as a group long but damn the way they're playing the last couple of games is unacceptable

[Marcus Bryant]

Won a couple games and started to smoke their own dope

Just bad basketball all around.

Defensive rotations are garbage.

Offense is some version of hero ball and giving me flashbacks to the mid 90s when the Spurs didn’t have guards who could hit jumpers.

At least string a good quarter together

[FkLA]

not a bust but not the stud that people think he is. He has potential but he has a lot to learn, he is far from being Duncan when he joined the league but with 1-2 more years he should be fine.

Duncan played 4 years in college.

[objective]

Can't even make a Max offer sheet to Maxey with the Zollins extension. Morey's obsession with nickel and diming guys to win every negotiation could have given them a chance.

[Dex]

I love how the hate switches to Pop whenever the Spurs play poorly.

I'm not saying his gameplan is perfect...but it would help if the players could HIT SOME SHOTS

[Arcadian]

I like how Wemby goes into a shot-blocking motion instinctively even when he's nowhere near the shooter. It reminds me of when you accidentally press Triangle in 2K :lol

[Frenchfred]

Duncan played 4 years in college.

I know, that's why I said that Wemby should be okay in 1-2 years.

[spurraider21]

Won a couple games and started to smoke their own dope

Just bad basketball all around.

Defensive rotations are garbage.

Offense is some version of hero ball and giving me flashbacks to the mid 90s when the Spurs didn’t have guards who could hit jumpers.

At least string a good quarter together
its on the coaching

[Raven]

knicks reminding everyone why everyone likes to see them be shit forever

[Chinook]

I want Jambalaya ball, not the other guys trying to save the day.

I think that attitude is the toxic pulse running through the team. Victor's not it right now. He has flashes, but he's still quite raw. The Spurs are not in a position where they need to rely on one guy to make everything happen, and too much of this season has been the tension between trying to figure out how to play together and how to figure out how to feature Wemby. When you have a young team, everyone's trying to improve at the same time. Vets can afford to play a certain way to accommodate a young blue-chip. It's much harder for guys still trying to figure out their place in the league. You can't tell a bunch of guys who've been told for years to be aggressive to stop just so a less efficient guy can get shots in bad position. IT's antithetical to the philosophy they were taught. Wemby should be a cog in the machine rather than a seperate machine altogether. That's a coaching issue for sure, but it's also a Wemby issue. He needs to get with the program. Dude has a long career ahead of him. It's okay to stay within himself and be a defender who scores opportunistically for year or two. As much as people say the pressure doesn't get to him, it's pretty clear it does.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wemby looks every bit the 19 year old Frenchman in this game

[spurraider21]

Can't even make a Max offer sheet to Maxey with the Zollins extension. Morey's obsession with nickel and diming guys to win every negotiation could have given them a chance.
sixers are 100% going to give maxey the max next offseason. they're just waiting to capitalize on his lower cap hold next offseason, same way spurs didnt extend kawhi until he was a restricted free agent then gave him the max anyway. the spurs waiting then enabled us to fit Aldridge into the cap, something that wouldnt have been possible had kawhi been given an extension an offseason earlier

[onechance87]

I love how the hate switches to Pop whenever the Spurs play poorly.

I'm not saying his gameplan is perfect...but it would help if the players could HIT SOME SHOTS

yup....this team has no talent or iq....Pop cant teach defence or rebounds or basic easy passes...This team
is just lazy and dumb lately

[MannyIsGod]

I love how the hate switches to Pop whenever the Spurs play poorly.

I'm not saying his gameplan is perfect...but it would help if the players could HIT SOME SHOTS

Dude no. Fuck this. This team is poorly coached right now. I've defended Pop for a long ass time but this is inexcusable. This team has absolutely no identity other than isolation nonsense and poor defense and at this point it falls squarely on Pop. This is not a very talented team but the system is absolutely piss poor and they're not even trying to compete. They have regressed from last year which is insane since they added one of the best player in the NBA.

This shit is on the coaching staff.

[cd98]

Man this game is bad. It’s not unexpected, but it would be nice to have a little fight.

[skin27]

I think that attitude is the toxic pulse running through the team. Victor's not it right now. He has flashes, but he's still quite raw. The Spurs are not in a position where they need to rely on one guy to make everything happen, and too much of this season has been the tension between trying to figure out how to play together and how to figure out how to feature Wemby. When you have a young team, everyone's trying to improve at the same time. Vets can afford to play a certain way to accommodate a young blue-chip. It's much harder for guys still trying to figure out their place in the league. You can't tell a bunch of guys who've been told for years to be aggressive to stop just so a less efficient guy can get shots in bad position. IT's antithetical to the philosophy they were taught. Wemby should be a cog in the machine rather than a seperate machine altogether. That's a coaching issue for sure, but it's also a Wemby issue. He needs to get with the program. Dude has a long career ahead of him. It's okay to stay within himself and be a defender who scores opportunistically for year or two. As much as people say the pressure doesn't get to him, it's pretty clear it does.

Lebron was already the first option on his rookie year.. wemby can also do that..but for some reason pop doesnt make him first option yet.

[Arcadian]

I think that attitude is the toxic pulse running through the team. Victor's not it right now. He has flashes, but he's still quite raw. The Spurs are not in a position where they need to rely on one guy to make everything happen, and too much of this season has been the tension between trying to figure out how to play together and how to figure out how to feature Wemby. When you have a young team, everyone's trying to improve at the same time. Vets can afford to play a certain way to accommodate a young blue-chip. It's much harder for guys still trying to figure out their place in the league. You can't tell a bunch of guys who've been told for years to be aggressive to stop just so a less efficient guy can get shots in bad position. IT's antithetical to the philosophy they were taught. Wemby should be a cog in the machine rather than a seperate machine altogether. That's a coaching issue for sure, but it's also a Wemby issue. He needs to get with the program. Dude has a long career ahead of him. It's okay to stay within himself and be a defender who scores opportunistically for year or two. As much as people say the pressure doesn't get to him, it's pretty clear it does.

How is Victor not "with the program"? He hasn't been selfish in any way as far as I can tell, even though he has every right to be.

[cd98]

Spurs decided not to sign veterans, so we are going to get these kind of jumbled messes.

[MannyIsGod]

Wemby seeing double teams and we cant' get open shots because the offense for this taem is to stand around and watch the guy with the ball

[objective]

sixers are 100% going to give maxey the max next offseason. they're just waiting to capitalize on his lower cap hold next offseason, same way spurs didnt extend kawhi until he was a restricted free agent then gave him the max anyway. the spurs waiting then enabled us to fit Aldridge into the cap, something that wouldnt have been possible had kawhi been given an extension an offseason earlier

Using the cap hold was part of the plan, maxing him out wasn't if I remember the sixers podcasts this summer correctly

[Chinook]

I love how the hate switches to Pop whenever the Spurs play poorly.

I'm not saying his gameplan is perfect...but it would help if the players could HIT SOME SHOTS

When you're the head exec and coach, the team's performance is always your fault. He and his staff get a ton of blame for everything from the horrible defensive rotation to the lack of competent defenders on the team, to the actions to get guys shots, to having a team full of guys with no BBIQ. You can't sign off on a roster, have that roster unable to play up to a basic scheme on either end and then skate on blame.

[Frenchfred]

Lebron was already the first option on his rookie year.. wemby can also do that..but for some reason pop doesnt make him first option yet.

Wemby is not at the same level as Lebron was when he entered the league.

[Kurgan]

I love how the hate switches to Pop whenever the Spurs play poorly.

I'm not saying his gameplan is perfect...but it would help if the players could HIT SOME SHOTS

When you've got two 40 point losses and a 30 point loss, all within the same week, that's not just a talent issue. Even the worst NBA teams don't lose by that much, that frequently unless there's a blatant tankjob going on. Pop doesn't have it anymore and it's been the case for a few years now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Grades

Coaching F-
Players F+

Maybe this team needs to be kicked in the teeth, but that was last game

[Dverde]

I don’t mind losing, but this team is playing soft. Poop sticking with his players playing soft instead of benching them is something I don’t like. I think this team needs Danny Green back to light a fire in Poop to yell at players again.

[Chinook]

How is Victor not "with the program"? He hasn't been selfish in any way as far as I can tell, even though he has every right to be.

He doesn't have a right to be selfish. Him not being "with the program" comes from the fact that he's disjointed with what everybody else on the court is trying to do. Again, it's like a WR getting open because he ran the wrong route and expecting the QB to find him.

[SpurSpike]

This team could really use a player like Derrick White. We shouldn't have traded both our home growth point guards.

[objective]

Despite how disappointing I've found Collins this year and his extension, the veteran alternative some of us liked, Brook Lopez, has had a terrible season. Haven't watched the bucks enough to know if it's bad coaching using him wrong or if he's just getting cooked

[Marcus Bryant]

Getting worked by a non-elite playoff team. Ugh

[Mikeanaro]

HE CAN DUNK!!!!

[Marcus Bryant]

Hey, it’s under 20

[skin27]

Wemby is not at the same level as Lebron was when he entered the league.

Thay are the same.. dont forget wemby played on a proffesional league before enyerinh the nba..both enter the nba at the same age.

[DAF86]

Pick and roll action with Wemby working. Shoking. :wow

[cd98]

If Spurs had a great playmaker like CP or of that ilk, Wemby could get easy baskets. I mean, imagine this guy in a pick and roll with Manu. But Spurs don’t have that and Wemby doesn’t have the skill set to consistently create his own shot, especially when he’s doubled on the perimeter. He’ll get better, but Spurs need a playmaker, even if it isn’t a PG.

[Dex]

When you're the head exec and coach, the team's performance is always your fault. He and his staff get a ton of blame for everything from the horrible defensive rotation to the lack of competent defenders on the team, to the actions to get guys shots, to having a team full of guys with no BBIQ. You can't sign off on a roster, have that roster unable to play up to a basic scheme on either end and then skate on blame.

I get what you are saying.

At the same time, the team is getting plenty of open fucking looks and just straight up missing them.

The roster and coaching staff obviously needs an overhaul, but Pop isn't the one out there forcing players to miss.

[paperboy77]

agreed. The team needs a good PG (Luka?) + a backup, one more 3-point shooter, a center who can rebound and defend.


Luka? What you high? How would we get him and why would he want to be part of this shit show? :drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk

[freetiago]

First time someone passed to him on a roll and he dunks. Even Old man Hubie getting angry they’re not passing to him

[SayNoToDrugsTBH]

Poop is such a dick.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes Drive to the damn rim

[Raven]

i cannot stand the doubling on the ballhandler when sochan plays aggressive, just let him work and stay on your fuckin player ffs, it always ends up with a wide open 3

[MannyIsGod]

I get what you are saying.

At the same time, the team is getting plenty of open fucking looks and just straight up missing them.

The roster and coaching staff obviously needs an overhaul, but Pop isn't the one out there forcing players to miss.

Uhhhh, what game are you watching? This team is definitely not getting a lot of quality looks.

[Raven]

Luka? What you high? How would we get him and why would he want to be part of this shit show? :drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk

free agent. Spurs are team Slovenia.

[cd98]

Hubie dropping truth bombs for Spurs fans.

[Chinook]

Lebron was already the first option on his rookie year.. wemby can also do that..but for some reason pop doesnt make him first option yet.

Lebron is a perimeter player who was a phenom because of his floor game for his size. That game was better than Wemby has, so he didn't need to be set up. Wemby isn't the first-overall pick anymore. He's a player in the league with a certain set of skills and trade-offs. The Spurs need to feed him, and he needs to put himself in position to get fed. He isn't at the point where he needs to be the focus of the team. You can't just give him the ball and get out of his way. You have to set him up, which means all five guys (including Wemby) have to play full actions. Wemby calls for passes constantly when he's not even close to the best option. Guys will be getting to the rim, and instead of screen for them, he'll slip and call for a pass. Guys will get getting ready to take wide open threes, and Wemby will be calling for a pass rather than getting in position for a potential offensive rebound. It happens all the time.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

5’10 Brunson scoring on Sochan with ease. What does that kid do good again?

[Dverde]

Chris Paul would have this team playing right. He would get the ball to Wemby in good positions. Don’t like Chrissy, but it’s games like these that make me see his strengths.

[Frenchfred]

Luka? What you high? How would we get him and why would he want to be part of this shit show? :drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk

The Spurs are looking to be good in two years. This year is learning curve for Wemby and confirmation for Vassel. Next year, another high pick and hopefully a decent PG to orchestrate the team and have Sochan back to his position and in two year we need to use the picks to look for a good player.

[cd98]

Like Hubie said, if Spurs had vets, Spurs would run sets and get Wemby better looks. The Spurs have talent, but little experience.

[paperboy77]

Stupid pop.. he should make wemby the first option in every damn game..

You know Pop has done this to any and every good rookie we've ever had not named Tim or David. In a way you gotta put A LOT of this on Wemby. 19 years old or not he should study a tape of how Kawhi did it. That dude made his own opportunities by hustling. Wemby kinda acts like he expects everything to come to him... gotta go get it big guy!

[r0drig0lac]

lol Tre

[Mikeanaro]

I think that attitude is the toxic pulse running through the team. Victor's not it right now. He has flashes, but he's still quite raw. The Spurs are not in a position where they need to rely on one guy to make everything happen, and too much of this season has been the tension between trying to figure out how to play together and how to figure out how to feature Wemby. When you have a young team, everyone's trying to improve at the same time. Vets can afford to play a certain way to accommodate a young blue-chip. It's much harder for guys still trying to figure out their place in the league. You can't tell a bunch of guys who've been told for years to be aggressive to stop just so a less efficient guy can get shots in bad position. IT's antithetical to the philosophy they were taught. Wemby should be a cog in the machine rather than a seperate machine altogether. That's a coaching issue for sure, but it's also a Wemby issue. He needs to get with the program. Dude has a long career ahead of him. It's okay to stay within himself and be a defender who scores opportunistically for year or two. As much as people say the pressure doesn't get to him, it's pretty clear it does.
I hear you, at this point there are a lot of raw players in SA, but at the same time I feel Pop is kinda soft.
Not the same Pop that will punish mistakes, but even if he wants to there are no good players to teach the lesson anyway.
But so far in this particular game which I started watching in the 2nd quarter Wemby had no touches and the other guys are not playing team ball, its looking ugly but Im still gonna follow this team.
At least is not some team full of garbage vets like it was a couple years ago.

[boutons_deux]

Yes, it's only November

What VW was supposed to make watching the Spurs fun again?

So far it's a huge disappointment

They're not even competitive

And they have so far to go to become competitive

[Frenchfred]

Like Hubie said, if Spurs had vets, Spurs would run sets and get Wemby better looks. The Spurs have talent, but little experience.

What talent outside of Vassel?

[Fizziksman]

How is this team so bad at fastbreaks. When they aren't turning it over they are just missing layups lol

[Kurgan]

I get what you are saying.

At the same time, team is getting plenty of open fucking looks and just straight up missing them.

The roster and coaching staff obviously needs an overhaul, but Pop isn't the one out there forcing players to miss.

Combination of drafting and building a roster of non-shooters and brain drain on the coaching staff(shooting especially with Chip gone). Kawhi was an aberration. Most bad shooters will stay bad shooters

[Barfunk]

lol Tre

Wide open layup miss smh

[Frenchfred]

Yes, it's only November

What VW was supposed to make watching the Spurs fun again?

So far it's a huge disappointment

They're not even competitive

And they have so far to go to become competitive

agreed. I don't mind losing but this is not watchable at this point

[Chinook]

I get what you are saying.

At the same time, the team is getting plenty of open fucking looks and just straight up missing them.

The roster and coaching staff obviously needs an overhaul, but Pop isn't the one out there forcing players to miss.

I don't actually disagree in this game. Not every "open" look is a good look, though. They are missing some good looks, but they're also going from "good to okay" on a number of looks where they're going from guys like McD or Osman to Jones or Sochan for looks. The Spurs are passing a lot, but they often aren't passing to advantage spots.

[Marcus Bryant]

Waited too late to compete tonight

[Raven]

jeremy really worked his butt off today...

[Barfunk]

Really Keldon?

[FkLA]

I think that attitude is the toxic pulse running through the team. Victor's not it right now. He has flashes, but he's still quite raw. The Spurs are not in a position where they need to rely on one guy to make everything happen, and too much of this season has been the tension between trying to figure out how to play together and how to figure out how to feature Wemby. When you have a young team, everyone's trying to improve at the same time. Vets can afford to play a certain way to accommodate a young blue-chip. It's much harder for guys still trying to figure out their place in the league. You can't tell a bunch of guys who've been told for years to be aggressive to stop just so a less efficient guy can get shots in bad position. IT's antithetical to the philosophy they were taught. Wemby should be a cog in the machine rather than a seperate machine altogether. That's a coaching issue for sure, but it's also a Wemby issue. He needs to get with the program. Dude has a long career ahead of him. It's okay to stay within himself and be a defender who scores opportunistically for year or two. As much as people say the pressure doesn't get to him, it's pretty clear it does.

Fuck that. The other pieces can prove themselves and know their place at the same time. It shouldn't be up to the generational prospect to pick his spots. He's not the complimentary piece, they are. If the product is going to be non-competitive anyways you might as well prioritize the development of Wemby. If the rest of the guys don't get behind that then they can kick rocks.

[spursparker9]

lol everything is falling apart.

[Chinook]

Like holy shit Wemby, McDermott has an open three -- one of the very best shots the Spurs offense can make. Why are you running to him calling for the ball? Just get in position to get the rebound. The Spurs have had a number good opportunities since the mid-point of the quarter. A number of them have been complicated by Wemby trying to get himself open rather than just playing the play.

[Ditty]

Happy Brunson isn't making these BS shots in Dallas anymore at least.

[DAF86]

5’10 Brunson scoring on Sochan with ease. What does that kid do good again?

Sochan was the Spurs best player tonight (from what I saw, at least).

[MannyIsGod]

Sochan was the Spurs best player tonight (from what I saw, at least).

Yeah Sochan was solid tonight.

[Kurgan]

What talent outside of Vassel?

Even Vassel is overrated relative to the contract he just got. He doesn't really do anything besides shoot or score. Doesn't create for others and his defense has been underwhelming relative to all the hype he had coming out of college. Spurs flubbed that pick passing on Haliburton, who's better than Vassell in every facet of the game. Regardless, just his shooting alone puts him on a higher tier as a prospect compared to scrubs like Sochan or Keldon.

[Barfunk]

I'm not sure if it's just a complete lack of talent outside a couple players, or if it's more coaching. Can't tell.

[Refocus]

We're gonna make a lot of team's offenses look elite this year arent we lol

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

Yeah Sochan was solid tonight.

the only spur that actually competed physically tonight. shocking.

[Uriel]

Record before Vassell injury: 3-2
Record after Vassell injury: 0-3

[Chomag]

I'm getting kind of tired of hearing " we need to wait and see what we have"

We know exactly what we have and it ain't good. This team has somehow gotten worse from last year.

[J_Paco]

Like holy shit Wemby, McDermott has an open three -- one of the very best shots the Spurs offense can make. Why are you running to him calling for the ball? Just get in position to get the rebound. The Spurs have had a number good opportunities since the mid-point of the quarter. A number of them have been complicated by Wemby trying to get himself open rather than just playing the play.

It might be a little bit of selfishness and pressing for the ball because of the added pressure of being in MSG.

[objective]

Fuck that. The other pieces can prove themselves and know their place at the same time. It shouldn't be up to the generational prospect to pick his spots. He's not the complimentary piece, they are. If the product is going to be non-competitive anyways you might as well prioritize the development of Wemby. If the rest of the guys don't get behind that then they can kick rocks.

I tend to agree with this.

The time to give Sochan time to become a point guard was last year and this one if they had drafted Miller or Ausur.

But Wemby is the future and he needs development and good point guard play is what any developing big needs. Clowning at the point guard is a blueprint for setting bigs back.

[Chinook]

Fuck that. The other pieces can prove themselves and know their place at the same time. It shouldn't be up to the generational prospect to pick his spots. He's not the complimentary piece, they are. If the product is going to be non-competitive anyways you might as well prioritize the development of Wemby. If the rest of the guys don't get behind that then they can kick rocks.

Again, that's toxic. Wemby being a star prospect means little to any of the players on the team. They aren't part-owners of the team. Just as the prospect of drafting Wemby shouldn't've motivated them to tank last year, the prospect of developing him isn't really their concern. They need to work on themselves and try to get their shots. If Pop wanted to run a system where they kept giving Wemby the ball, he would be calling plays to that end rather than just letting them "figure it out". The Spurs got rid of their vets and instead purposefully got a bunch of young or raw guys. This is the result that will have, especially given how weak Pop's coaching hand is right now.

[J_Paco]

We're gonna make a lot of team's offenses look elite this year arent we lol

Kind of like last season. SMDH LOL

[z0sa]

Lebron is a perimeter player who was a phenom because of his floor game for his size. That game was better than Wemby has, so he didn't need to be set up. Wemby isn't the first-overall pick anymore. He's a player in the league with a certain set of skills and trade-offs. The Spurs need to feed him, and he needs to put himself in position to get fed. He isn't at the point where he needs to be the focus of the team. You can't just give him the ball and get out of his way. You have to set him up, which means all five guys (including Wemby) have to play full actions. Wemby calls for passes constantly when he's not even close to the best option. Guys will be getting to the rim, and instead of screen for them, he'll slip and call for a pass. Guys will get getting ready to take wide open threes, and Wemby will be calling for a pass rather than getting in position for a potential offensive rebound. It happens all the time.

Brutal, but so true.

When do we press the panic button with Wemby? I've been drinking, but he's looked outright bad. Mostly because his shot selection and hustle off the ball has quickly become lazy or as I would rather believe, tired. I'm already beginning to believe his conditioning is way below NBA level.

[objective]

Got to see Wesley doing what he does, getting to the rim and blowing the layup. Dependable.

[boutons_deux]

Spurs won two quarters, but got blown out in the two they lost

[DAF86]

I'm not sure if it's just a complete lack of talent outside a couple players, or if it's more coaching. Can't tell.

Defense shouldn't be this bad. Wemby, Vassell and Sochan were all A+ defensive prospects. Even if they weren't, a young team such as this should be better than they are on hustle and fresh legs alone. Coaching should definitely do better there.

And then, there's the obvious fact that they don't know how to utilize Wemby on the offensive end yet.

So, yeah, Pop should roll up his sleeves and start doing some better coaching.

[CorrectCrusader]

Tough one but the boys will bounce back

[CorrectCrusader]

Brutal, but so true.

When do we press the panic button with Wemby? I've been drinking, but he's looked outright bad. Mostly because his shot selection and hustle off the ball has quickly become lazy or as I would rather believe, tired. I'm already beginning to believe his conditioning is way below NBA level.

Lmao you clowns are unreal

[Ditty]

Glad to see Sochan play better tonight. Hopefully they get back on the winning track back home on Friday with Vassell getting more work.

[Barfunk]

I mean out of the gate, it was clank clank clank clank clank clank clank.

[z0sa]

Lmao you clowns are unreal

Eh? Can you be more specific? I'm not hating. He just looks ... tired, or phased out. I think it's a lot mentally, the pressure, learning Pop's systems, learning how to play with a bunch of new teammates - most of which are almost as young ...

[cd98]

What talent outside of Vassel?

Well Wemby. Jones has talent. But also Sochan has talent. He's only a year older than Wemby. Collins does some nice things. Some of the young guys on this team will never be stars, but they can be quality role players. The Spurs don't have their second best talent on the team yet. That will come either in the next draft or free agency or through a trade. The Spurs have pieces to build a team quickly, but it's about being patient for the right opportunities.

[Mugen]

All of the terrible things that come with being the youngest team in the league with none of the benefits tbh :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

This young team needs a Terry Cummings, Elie, Kersey, AJ type.

So much to learn.

[J_Paco]

Got to see Wesley doing what he does, getting to the rim and blowing the layup. Dependable.

Is that kid ever gonna learn to finish at the rim?

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Sochan was the Spurs best player tonight (from what I saw, at least).
Thought he did another poor job as starting point guard, helped get the team in a hole to start the game and start of the 2nd half.. He can’t shoot teams don’t respect him, he couldn’t take advantage of mismatches when the game mattered. Rotated on defense 2 steps too slow per par and got his lunch eaten by Brunson.

[Chinook]

Brutal, but so true.

When do we press the panic button with Wemby? I've been drinking, but he's looked outright bad. Mostly because his shot selection and hustle off the ball has quickly become lazy or as I would rather believe, tired. I'm already beginning to believe his conditioning is way below NBA level.

You should probably sober up. He's fine. It's just that Pop needs to start doing his job and coaching the team. If Wemby is offering some resistance behind the scenes, he needs to work with Victor to get that straightened out. If other guys on the team are freezing Wemby out, Pop needs to handle it. If this is what the players do organically, Pop needs to GMO the shit out of them.

[FkLA]

Again, that's toxic. Wemby being a star prospect means little to any of the players on the team. They aren't part-owners of the team. Just as the prospect of drafting Wemby shouldn't've motivated them to tank last year, the prospect of developing him isn't really their concern. They need to work on themselves and try to get their shots. If Pop wanted to run a system where they kept giving Wemby the ball, he would be calling plays to that end rather than just letting them "figure it out". The Spurs got rid of their vets and instead purposefully got a bunch of young or raw guys. This is the result that will have, especially given how weak Pop's coaching hand is right now.

What's toxic is the idea that complimentary players need to get their shots up at the expense of the generational prospect. What's the ceiling of all these guys if you take Wemby's ceiling out of the picture? The play-in? There has to be balance, that allows complimentary guys to "prove" themselves and for Wemby to be the focal point. It's not like other guys weren't allowed to show out during his 38 point game. He's forcing shit right now because he goes long stretches without even touching the ball. Basically just playing one on one for most of his shots since he is almost completely uninvolved otherwise.

[SPURt]

Spurs are gonna go as Wemby goes. Tough night at the office. Keldon’s missed free throws followed by the Brunson three was the dagger. Sochan had a better game, so glass 1/8th full?

[Thomas82]

Hubie dropping truth bombs for Spurs fans.

What did he say? I didn't get to see the game because I was at work.

[KobesAchilles]

Can we trade for CP3?

[Barfunk]

Defense shouldn't be this bad. Wemby, Vassell and Sochan were all A+ defensive prospects. Even if they weren't, a young team such as this should be better than they are on hustle and fresh legs alone. Coaching should definitely do better there.

And then, there's the obvious fact that they don't know how to utilize Wemby on the offensive end yet.

So, yeah, Pop should roll up his sleeves and start doing some better coaching.

+1/ Agreed, coaching should do a better job but of course I'm not gonna act like I fully know what I'm seeing. Team also just appears as if it sucks currently though as well. Hopefully we can figure some things out!

[z0sa]

You should probably sober up. He's fine. It's just that Pop needs to start doing his job and coaching the team. If Wemby is offering some resistance behind the scenes, he needs to work with Victor to get that straightened out. If other guys on the team are freezing Wemby out, Pop needs to handle it. If this is what the players do organically, Pop needs to GMO the shit out of them.


Wemby calls for passes constantly when he's not even close to the best option. Guys will be getting to the rim, and instead of screen for them, he'll slip and call for a pass. Guys will get getting ready to take wide open threes, and Wemby will be calling for a pass rather than getting in position for a potential offensive rebound. It happens all the time.

These two posts feel like they're from different people. Is it okay for him to call for the ball when he's not open, needs to be establishing position, etc per your post? Just curious if you're walking it back.

For the most part, agree though. I just would prefer to see more hustle than less

[paperboy77]

free agent. Spurs are team Slovenia.

I'll believe it when i see it. Just saying you are reaching very high and I don't think that's realistic given our history of attracting any big free agents in their prime. (Don't even say Aldrige!)

[paperboy77]

The Spurs are looking to be good in two years. This year is learning curve for Wemby and confirmation for Vassel. Next year, another high pick and hopefully a decent PG to orchestrate the team and have Sochan back to his position and in two year we need to use the picks to look for a good player.

That's like the perfect world scenario. I think they need to take some chances and trade away some of the players we "think" are actually good in order to get a proven player. What really frustrates me is that we had opportunities to get these type of players given our money situation and assets. Unfortunately we are way too timid or complacent or incompetent to do what needs to be done. Also, we absolutely lucked out with Wemby so this is nothing to do with any kind of skill by our front office.

[objective]

What's toxic is the idea that complimentary players need to get their shots up at the expense of the generational prospect. What's the ceiling of all these guys if you take Wemby's ceiling out of the picture? The play-in? There has to be balance, that allows complimentary guys to "prove" themselves and for Wemby to be the focal point. It's not like other guys weren't allowed to show out during his 38 point game. He's forcing shit right now because he goes long stretches without even touching the ball. Basically just playing one on one for most of his shots since he is almost completely uninvolved otherwise.

I think you're right about when he forces things, it's because he's frustrated and goes on tilt. I think the pacers game might have been the one where he just comes out in the second half just selfishly puking up bad shots. He needs a game manager because he needs to be managed to prevent this kind of attitude getting too toxic.

Vassell's presence helps a little because he gets his dependable touches and shots, but everything else is a crapshoot.

But they can't have 75 or 74 more games of this crap. If anyone thinks Wemby takes bad shots and is selfish and in the way while calling for the ball nonstop, it's probably going to be a lot worse by all-star break if this doesn't get managed soon.

Hell I say trade for Brogdan. He's his own problem and not a long term solution but Spurs need someone with maturity to take control. Jones isn't good enough imo to just go with him over Sochan and call it a day

[spurs1990]

Hey LA fell by 32 pts so night wasn’t all bad

[Marcus Bryant]

This wasn’t Trader Bob Bass taking a couple years to build a supporting cast for DRob, or TD walking into an established contender in his rookie season.

Not sure what we’re expecting here, this is a different scenario, a true lotto team that just added a generational talent. Gonna be a different rookie year for him than David and Timmy.

[kxs783kms]

Every game Wemby does this weird jump where an opposing player will be shooting a 3 and even if he's in the lane, not running towards the shooter, or if he's on the opposite side of the court, he'll jump as if he's affecting the shooter. It's nothing major, it just strange and funny because he does this once or twice every game.

[CorrectCrusader]

Worried about the Branham and Wesley picks, looks like they're just flat out busts so far.

[Chinook]

These two posts feel like they're from different people. Is it okay for him to call for the ball when he's not open, needs to be establishing position, etc per your post? Just curious if you're walking it back.

For the most part, agree though. I just would prefer to see more hustle than less

I'm not panicking over what the team is doing eight games into the Wemby era. That doesn't mean I don't think Wemby is behaving in a way that warrants criticism or think that it isn't harmful to the team to try to force Wemby to get passes when he's not in position to get them. That needs to get hammered out, not because it's a catastrophe, but because there's too much season to go to let things linger like this.

[objective]

If other guys on the team are freezing Wemby out, Pop needs to handle it. If this is what the players do organically, Pop needs to GMO the shit out of them.

I don't know if Pop has that fire anymore, and even in the past when he did it felt like it took years for him to get Parker to give the ball to Kawhi. I think it finally culminated when Pop was jumping up and down, screaming and pointing while Parker had it in the halfcourt and it finally happened.

I don't see Pop doing that anymore. It's probably going to take a coach in the floor to wrangle things, as in a point guard.

[Spurs Homer]

Im shocked none of you cliff jumpers commented on the garden crowd chanting “overrated”

as wemby was shooting free throws

lol

[rascal]

Im shocked none of you cliff jumpers commented on the garden crowd chanting “overrated”

as wemby was shooting free throws

lol

New York crowd is rough. They'll let you know when you're playing bad. They came out to see Wemby and he disappointed them.

[z0sa]

I'm not panicking over what the team is doing eight games into the Wemby era. That doesn't mean I don't think Wemby is behaving in a way that warrants criticism or think that it isn't harmful to the team to try to force Wemby to get passes when he's not in position to get them. That needs to get hammered out, not because it's a catastrophe, but because there's too much season to go to let things linger like this.

Yeah, exactly. I do want to actually bring the panic button up again - not as grandstanding, but to genuinely seek your opinion. What if anything should we be scared of? For me, it's exactly what I described - Wemby checking out. He's 19, Pop's 70whatever. It's not unfathomable that the two don't actually see eye to eye, despite Pop's reputation. What if coaching isn't the solution? What if Wemby envisions isolating on one half of the court as a big part of his game, considering how sh*tty our current lineup honestly is? It's just a hypothetical.

[baseline bum]

This young team needs a Terry Cummings, Elie, Kersey, AJ type.

So much to learn.

Yeah, was really hoping to land Brook Lopez or CP3

[Chinook]

What's toxic is the idea that complimentary players need to get their shots up at the expense of the generational prospect.

To be clear, I'm not calling your view toxic to have as a fan. It's natural for you want the Spurs to show off their fancy new player. But in the locker-room, trying to force guys to forget everything they've been taught up to this point and to instead defer to a guy who can't even set a screen properly is going to cause problems.


What's the ceiling of all these guys if you take Wemby's ceiling out of the picture? The play-in?

The ceiling of these guys is to be decent players who might have long and lucrative NBA careers. There's no guarantee they'll be Wemby's teammate for a long time. Pop should be implementing a system to get them all points, but if it's going to be without structures, guys are going to try to play the way they know how rather than worshiping a guy who doesn't seem to have much interest in helping others out. Collins and Bassey are far, far better screeners, which means it's so much easier to work with those guys to create situations to get both them and the ball-handlers good looks.


There has to be balance, that allows complimentary guys to "prove" themselves and for Wemby to be the focal point. It's not like other guys weren't allowed to show out during his 38 point game.

Yes, there does have to be balance. No one in their right mind should disagree there.


He's forcing shit right now because he goes long stretches without even touching the ball.

No. He's forcing shit because he struggles to score sometimes and gets frustrated. He got tons of touches to start the game and still forced shit. The Suns game wasn't them deciding to give him the ball. It was Phoenix defending him with small players and having no IQ in terms of trying to stop him for getting into his spots. He couldn't do anything against the Knicks because he's not going to beat good defensive bigs off the dribble right now, and very few are going to let him have a clean catch in the first place. The moment Wemby failed to hit any of his early shots, any chance of him forcing the Knicks to change their plan went out the window. Victor pretty much gave up on the game at that point.


Basically just playing one on one for most of his shots since he is almost completely uninvolved otherwise.

Honestly, the Spurs actually pass much more when Wemby's on the court than when he's off it. I don't think there's a ton of evidence that they are freezing him out when they assist at a higher rate with him on the floor. In fact, Wemby's on/off for the team's assist percentage is the highest on the team. It's an indictment of him that he's not benefitting from guys passing. The narrative that they're selfishly looking for theirs and ignoring him doesn't match the stats. Here are two potential explanations: 1) They're colluding to freeze Wemby out and are basically playing money in the middle with him; 2) They're running offense and trying to find guys, but Wemby isn't presenting good scoring opportunities on a consistent basis. Some want to assume it's that first one, but how many people even went back and looked at the 38-point game to see what the difference was?

[Dex]

We just lost to a team named after pants.

[Dex]

Spurs are gonna go as Wemby goes. Tough night at the office. Keldon’s missed free throws followed by the Brunson three was the dagger. Sochan had a better game, so glass 1/8th full?

I am 100% being reactionary after two bad losses, but...

Keldon needs to get his shit together because he does not deserve to be a starter on this team, or any team TBH

Dude plays terrible defense, doesn't really run offense other than barreling towards the rim, and his trebuchet-style three isn't falling.

Being a "good teammate" only gets you so far in the NBA.

[Chinook]

Yeah, exactly. I do want to actually bring the panic button up again - not as grandstanding, but to genuinely seek your opinion. What if anything should we be scared of? For me, it's exactly what I described - Wemby checking out. He's 19, Pop's 70whatever. It's not unfathomable that the two don't actually see eye to eye, despite Pop's reputation. What if coaching isn't the solution? What if Wemby envisions isolating on one half of the court as a big part of his game, considering how sh*tty our current lineup honestly is? It's just a hypothetical.

I do think Wemby checked out early in this game, which suggests there are issues between him and coaches. That's something that has to be fixed, but it's not a panic situation. The team can't really develop until they get this type of stuff worked out. I'm currently assuming they'll figure out different ways to get Wemby the ball in advantage situations, even against teams that can defend better than the Suns. However, that's going to require a certain amount of buy-in from Wemby that he might not believe he has to give until he can see more evidence. I'm very curious about when the Spurs are going to start altering the rotation. When they do that and what choices they make will give us information on what Pop thinks the problems are. Wemby's going to respond to that, and that will let us know where his mind is at. Then of course we'll get into trading season, and we'll see what posture the Spurs have.

[FkLA]

I don't know if Pop has that fire anymore, and even in the past when he did it felt like it took years for him to get Parker to give the ball to Kawhi. I think it finally culminated when Pop was jumping up and down, screaming and pointing while Parker had it in the halfcourt and it finally happened.

I don't see Pop doing that anymore. It's probably going to take a coach in the floor to wrangle things, as in a point guard.

It's weird that Pop came out that one game and was like "yeah, this is the first game we tried to play through Victor". And since then we're going on like the 3rd or 4th game where his involvement in the offense would lead you to believe he's the last option on the floor.

[Chinook]

I don't think people appreciate enough that other teams have coaches who scout and make game plans for how to deal with Wemby. That's a huge reason why he hasn't been very effective on defense recently, but it's also a huge reason he's struggling on offense. Playing against legit centers isn't good for his game right now. There's a difference in how to scheme perimeter players off a guy versus how to scheme centers off him. The trade-off is supposed to be that Collins goes off against the opposing PFs. He's been playing well, but you'll never want Zach taking enough possessions to truly cause damage. MAYBE replacing Collins and Sochan with Jones and Osman might run the opposing PF off the court, but if the opposing center is anything on offense, it might take a lot out of Wemby to guard him. Does that mean the Spurs should play Wemby at center? I'd be curious to see if the numbers with him at that position have changed since the first few games.

[Jordan Jackson]

Players are open for a reason…they can’t shoot.

Knicks doubled or tripled teamed Wemby - dared the others to make shots, which they won’t. If you’re an opposing team you are happy to let the Tre Jones and Sochans of the world bomb away from 3.

Teams are not going to let Wembanyama embarrass them.

Oh and the Spurs defense is a dogs breakfast too. Crazy stuff out there. 74 more to go…

[spurs10]

I am 100% being reactionary after two bad losses, but...

Keldon needs to get his shit together because he does not deserve to be a starter on this team, or any team TBH

Dude plays terrible defense, doesn't really run offense other than barreling towards the rim, and his trebuchet-style three isn't falling.

Being a "good teammate" only gets you so far in the NBA.
Yeah, i'm just wondering if he isn't hugely affected by falling a place or two in the pecking order.

[Chinook]

I don't know if Pop has that fire anymore, and even in the past when he did it felt like it took years for him to get Parker to give the ball to Kawhi. I think it finally culminated when Pop was jumping up and down, screaming and pointing while Parker had it in the halfcourt and it finally happened.

I don't see Pop doing that anymore. It's probably going to take a coach in the floor to wrangle things, as in a point guard.

If Pop is getting styled on by Keldon Johnson and Malaki Branham, he needs to retire. If he doesn't have the fire to force guys to play differently, he needs to move them. All he has to do is pull them for guys like Mamu and Graham. They'll do whatever Pop asks.

[Mugen]

I don't know if Pop has that fire anymore, and even in the past when he did it felt like it took years for him to get Parker to give the ball to Kawhi. I think it finally culminated when Pop was jumping up and down, screaming and pointing while Parker had it in the halfcourt and it finally happened.

I don't see Pop doing that anymore. It's probably going to take a coach in the floor to wrangle things, as in a point guard.

I mean that's the elephant in the room and it has been for years. He hasn't really had it since the Kawhi debacle and his wife passing. The last time I thought Pop gave a shit was after the Zaza incident.

We joke around because it's funny but there's a lot of truth that maybe the oldest NBA coach just isn't a good fit for the youngest team in the league. It's really not that hard to comprehend that somebody as old as Pop just doesn't truly have it anymore, it's super normal in all walks of life including basketball :lol

[Chinook]

So Wemby has the highest USG% of any Spur since Kawhi in his last year on the club. Like seriously, only Prime Kawhi (meaning the year before that) had a noticeably higher measurement than Victor does right now. Folks arguing that Victor's not getting touches are frankly out of touch. The dude used 19 possessions to get 14 points and three TOs tonight. Dude gets the ball a lot. He just gets bad looks for a number of reasons.

[Arcadian]

That's hilarious that some people are turning on Wemby after a few non-amazing performances. :lol Fuck all of that. He's not perfect, but he's the best player on this team by far and still almost guaranteed to be MVP contender in a few years. Anyone suddenly suggesting he's a "bust" or he's the problem with the team is simply overreacting.

Can't say I didn't see that coming, though.

[FkLA]

To be clear, I'm not calling your view toxic to have as a fan. It's natural for you want the Spurs to show off their fancy new player. But in the locker-room, trying to force guys to forget everything they've been taught up to this point and to instead defer to a guy who can't even set a screen properly is going to cause problems.



The ceiling of these guys is to be decent players who might have long and lucrative NBA careers. There's no guarantee they'll be Wemby's teammate for a long time. Pop should be implementing a system to get them all points, but if it's going to be without structures, guys are going to try to play the way they know how rather than worshiping a guy who doesn't seem to have much interest in helping others out. Collins and Bassey are far, far better screeners, which means it's so much easier to work with those guys to create situations to get both them and the ball-handlers good looks.



Yes, there does have to be balance. No one in their right mind should disagree there.



No. He's forcing shit because he struggles to score sometimes and gets frustrated. He got tons of touches to start the game and still forced shit. The Suns game wasn't them deciding to give him the ball. It was Phoenix defending him with small players and having no IQ in terms of trying to stop him for getting into his spots. He couldn't do anything against the Knicks because he's not going to beat good defensive bigs off the dribble right now, and very few are going to let him have a clean catch in the first place. The moment Wemby failed to hit any of his early shots, any chance of him forcing the Knicks to change their plan went out the window. Victor pretty much gave up on the game at that point.



Honestly, the Spurs actually pass much more when Wemby's on the court than when he's off it. I don't think there's a ton of evidence that they are freezing him out when they assist at a higher rate with him on the floor. In fact, Wemby's on/off for the team's assist percentage is the highest on the team. It's an indictment of him that he's not benefitting from guys passing. The narrative that they're selfishly looking for theirs and ignoring him doesn't match the stats. Here are two potential explanations: 1) They're colluding to freeze Wemby out and are basically playing money in the middle with him; 2) They're running offense and trying to find guys, but Wemby isn't presenting good scoring opportunities on a consistent basis. Some want to assume it's that first one, but how many people even went back and looked at the 38-point game to see what the difference was?

The ball is moving, it just doesn't seem to be making its way to him as much as it is to some of the other key guys. I don't think it's just us fans being eager to use our new shiny player either. Too many fans are seeing the same thing. Also, Sean mentions it all the time and if you want to attribute that to him being a homer, Hubie mentioned it a few times today too. I'm not even talking about force feeding him either...I'm talking about he ran the floor and has a mismatch lets throw it inside to him. Or there was a switch and he has a smaller guy on him. Like obvious mismatch opportunities that are just being ignored. To me that's what stood out most about the Suns game. Or the couple 4th Qtrs when he's "taken over". He's getting those looks.

I do agree with some of the criticism. His screens need work. He was really horrible the first couple of games, slipping way too early looking to get open. I think he's gotten a little better although still far from ideal. I also do think he excessively calls for the ball a lot of times even when he's not really open. I could see how those things could be off putting as his teammate but definitely not a reason to freeze him out if that is indeed what's going on. I would hope that his teammates would talk to the kid, help him grow. He's 19.

[objective]

If Pop is getting styled on by Keldon Johnson and Malaki Branham, he needs to retire. If he doesn't have the fire to force guys to play differently, he needs to move them. All he has to do is pull them for guys like Mamu and Graham. They'll do whatever Pop asks.

I don't even know if Pop thinks there's an issue to deal with.

Everyone says, "oh, pop will make sure they throw lobs to Wemby"

But now I actually remembered when the Spurs acquired Richard Jefferson and everyone thought, "lobs here we come!"

Except it didn't happen it feels like for months.

Then when there finally were lob plays in the halfcourt, the reporting wasn't that Pop finally got through to them.

It turned out that Jefferson and Parker got together on their own to work it in. If the players hadn't made it an issue then pop probably wasn't going to make it one

And that was over 10 years ago.

That's why I'm now of the opinion that they need to trade for a veteran point guard. Someone has to be a coach on the floor.

[spurraider21]

So Wemby has the highest USG% of any Spur since Kawhi in his last year on the club. Like seriously, only Prime Kawhi (meaning the year before that) had a noticeably higher measurement than Victor does right now. Folks arguing that Victor's not getting touches are frankly out of touch. The dude used 19 possessions to get 14 points and three TOs tonight. Dude gets the ball a lot. He just gets bad looks for a number of reasons.
His usage is high because he plays like a black hole. Last few games he’s played like a 7’4 Antoine Walker.

in part it’s because the guys seem to miss him when he had advantageous positions. And then in part he becomes frustrated and lets that get the better of him, because then he takes it upon himself to jack up a bad look when he does have the ball out of fear he’s not going to be fed. So he definitely had some of the “muh touches” syndrome and it’s also affecting his defensive effort

[z0sa]

I do think Wemby checked out early in this game, which suggests there are issues between him and coaches. That's something that has to be fixed, but it's not a panic situation. The team can't really develop until they get this type of stuff worked out. I'm currently assuming they'll figure out different ways to get Wemby the ball in advantage situations, even against teams that can defend better than the Suns. However, that's going to require a certain amount of buy-in from Wemby that he might not believe he has to give until he can see more evidence. I'm very curious about when the Spurs are going to start altering the rotation. When they do that and what choices they make will give us information on what Pop thinks the problems are. Wemby's going to respond to that, and that will let us know where his mind is at. Then of course we'll get into trading season, and we'll see what posture the Spurs have.

I was on the fence about trading, because I honestly have watched an average of maybe 15-20 games a season since 2017 playoffs (just life/work stuff). So that's it's own can of worms - who do we deal/what picks and for which position(s)? I think the FO is actually frozen right now because WEMBY is the true ?. Again, this isn't hate or saying he's a bust or anything - we just don't know where exactly he will feel most comfortable until more time has passed.

More immediately, Healthy Devin Vassell would certainly help, no question there. But it's also unreasonable to think one will have always have the same healthy lineup/rotation. Being real, would I be happier with Wemby playing hero ball, to the detriment of the rest of the team's production/growth? How many of these guys will be here 3 years from now, when Pop's sun is setting but we're "supposed" to be contending? It's a bit of an odd place for the Spurs fan. We're "slaves" to the SystemTM, win or lose. What if the system drives your generational talent out? At what point does Pop draw the line and say, I've got Wemby's back over all y'alls cause I want another ring/COTY etc?

[Chinook]

That's hilarious that some people are turning on Wemby after a few non-amazing performances. :lol Fuck all of that. He's not perfect, but he's the best player on this team by far and still almost guaranteed to be MVP contender in a few years. Anyone suddenly suggesting he's a "bust" or he's the problem with the team is simply overreacting.

Can't say I didn't see that coming, though.

Wemby is a rookie, he's going to do things wrong. He's going to get better. Yes, suggesting he's a bust is silly and hopefully just reactionary. Thinking he has things he needs to improve on is just being realistic. That's been true in his good and bad games. He's going to get better, and he's not as good as he's going to be now. Talking about the things he's not doing well isn't "turning on him". It's just a thought-terminating comment. This season is going to take a legit portion of the rest of our lives. We can talk about it, both the good and the bad without violating some sacred path. The Spurs are losing games right now, and a lot of people have played a hand in it. No player in the rotation is free of criticism. It's going to be a long season if you are offended by people having a frank discussion about what's ailing the team.

[widowmaker]

Dude if someone wants to win the 3 point contest this year they should have a spur guarding them.

[objective]

His usage is high because he plays like a black hole. Last few games he’s played like a 7’4 Antoine Walker.

in part it’s because the guys seem to miss him when he had advantageous positions. And then in part he becomes frustrated and lets that get the better of him, because then he takes it upon himself to jack up a bad look when he does have the ball out of fear he’s not going to be fed. So he definitely had some of the “muh touches” syndrome and it’s also affecting his defensive effort

I agree that contributes a lot to his bad shots.

It's like rescuing a starving person, if you let them they'll overeat and put themselves at further risk.

And it might seem ridiculous for a high usage player to feel starved, but after early experiences of putting himself in position and not getting the ball so often, which is not easy, then yes he'll feel starved

The starvation will make things worse. Wait until he stops trying to get good position because he feels he won't get the ball anyway. When that apathy takes root and he just wants to hang around the three point line and chuck bricks because it's easier and everyone else does, that's going to be a bigger problem then him going on tilt with bad shots and raising his hand for the ball.

[Marcus Bryant]

Knicks challenged Spurs’ supporting cast to beat them tonight and it couldn’t.

Anyways, if you think Wemby is a “bust” as I’ve seen posted here, might as well tune out for the next decade, you’re going to hate how that turns out.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

How bad are we going to get murked by the wolves?

[SPURt]

I am 100% being reactionary after two bad losses, but...

Keldon needs to get his shit together because he does not deserve to be a starter on this team, or any team TBH

Dude plays terrible defense, doesn't really run offense other than barreling towards the rim, and his trebuchet-style three isn't falling.

Being a "good teammate" only gets you so far in the NBA.
To be fair, none of these Spurs have been consistently good. I don’t think any of them know how to play with Wembanyama. The catch is Wemby is 19 and hasn’t figured out how he needs to play to live up to his own hype. When they figure it out, it’s gonna be scary.

[FkLA]

His usage is high because he plays like a black hole. Last few games he’s played like a 7’4 Antoine Walker.

in part it’s because the guys seem to miss him when he had advantageous positions. And then in part he becomes frustrated and lets that get the better of him, because then he takes it upon himself to jack up a bad look when he does have the ball out of fear he’s not going to be fed. So he definitely had some of the “muh touches” syndrome and it’s also affecting his defensive effort

Exactly. Just because he jacks up shots all the time doesn't mean he's involved or that his looks are coming within the flow the offense. It's all one on one. Or him literally just shooting over defenders on his threes (not even off penetration from others). Or grabbing the defensive rebound, dribbling the ball down the court and shooting it. Basically mostly everything is coming outside the "system".

I think he just wants to be great, live up to hype, etc and definitely does seem to get frustrated when things aren't going well. Or when his involvement in the offense is that of the last option on the floor. I don't get why he would be the one to be labeled selfish for that though. Imo it's more selfish to not acknowledge that he's the most talented, highest ceiling player on the team. Role players need to play their roles.

[Dex]

Dude if someone wants to win the 3 point contest this year they should have a spur guarding them.

You jest...but Spurs are literally last in the NBA when it comes to OPP 3PT%.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-three-point-pct

For the record, we were also worst in the NBA last season, too.

[Chinook]

His usage is high because he plays like a black hole. Last few games he’s played like a 7’4 Antoine Walker.

in part it’s because the guys seem to miss him when he had advantageous positions. And then in part he becomes frustrated and lets that get the better of him, because then he takes it upon himself to jack up a bad look when he does have the ball out of fear he’s not going to be fed. So he definitely had some of the “muh touches” syndrome and it’s also affecting his defensive effort

I think Wemby looks for "advantageous position" too much. As I said, guys are out there running actions to get open threes, and Wemby is completely separated from the other four guys calling for the ball. Collins and Bassey are out there screening to get their guys clean drives, and Wemby is slipping try to get himself open. Like, sure, he might have an advantage in that moment (even though the opposing defenders are totally looking for that now and are much better at disrupting it than the Suns were) but the other guys were depending on him to do his job, and he's not on those plays. And if the justification for that is "Well I'm better than all of you, and you should make giving me the ball whenever I want a priority" it wouldn't sit well.

Even a lot of his "good positions" aren't that good. He very rarely sets up in the "dunker" spot, which is why you would think a guy looking for a duck-in, lob or put-back. Instead he sets up shop for a post-up, which is essentially calling your own number for an iso. That can certainly work sometimes, but a lot goes into getting a good post-up and Wemby doesn't tend to have all of that work done when he calls for the ball. People should look at how other teams enter to the post -- even for perimeter players -- versus what it looks like when Wemby wants the ball. Tonight there were multiple times when Wemby got pushed so far away from the basket that he was practically in the lap of the guy trying to pass him the ball. Some of the blame might be the angle other Spurs are taking to try the pass. But Wemby's unability to hold his position is definitely a part of the spacing issues. It doesn't help that other teams know Wemby's not inclined to pass and are totally going to double him when does catch the pass.

That's why everything has to be quick actions, and in order to have quick actions, everyone needs to be on the same page. That means the others have to have their heads on a swivel looking to make the pass, but it also means Victor needs to pick his moments better. He's only going to have a couple of seconds to get the ball, and he needs to only open those windows when there's a good chance he'll get a pass. The team should be prioritizing his off-ball game right now, but I think Victor really wants on-ball touches. I just don't think he's at the point where a lot of those are good for the team without him already being in rhythm.

[Mugen]

Wemby isn't a bust obviously and I still think he's going to be top 10 player sooner rather than later. But the narrative that he went to the perfect coaching staff for his development is definitely overhyped tbh.

[Mugen]

He's also still a horrible screener. I'm flabbergasted that he's still really bad at it considering it's probably one of the easiest things to coach a player on tbh.

[heyheymymy]

def concerning but im going to need a larger sample size than 8 games before I start panicking esp considering the immense integration and Vassell being out with injury.

youngest team in the league = immense integration. Integration takes time and tinkering:

Learning the Spurs playbook (new guys), Learning the league (1-2 year players Vic, Bran), Still adding to their game (KJ, Dev, Zollins, Jones), and the whole team still getting legs under them at start of the season. All this adds to lack of cohesion appearance on court. Though it does look like there may be some fundamental flaws on top of all that as well.

We always said during offseason this year would be used to find out what Wemby needs around him and looks like that's what's happening. Good thing we have cap flexibility and tons of draft assets for trades etc.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Wemby started this game with quick 3s.

He needs to be watching and modeling Tim and Jokic, not KD.

[Marcus Bryant]

This season Wemby acclimates to NBA basketball and you find out what you have among the menagerie of players you’ve accumulated. It is what it is.

[FkLA]

I think Wemby looks for "advantageous position" too much. As I said, guys are out there running actions to get open threes, and Wemby is completely separated from the other four guys calling for the ball. Collins and Bassey are out there screening to get their guys clean drives, and Wemby is slipping try to get himself open. Like, sure, he might have an advantage in that moment (even though the opposing defenders are totally looking for that now and are much better at disrupting it than the Suns were) but the other guys were depending on him to do his job, and he's not on those plays. And if the justification for that is "Well I'm better than all of you, and you should make giving me the ball whenever I want a priority" it wouldn't sit well.

Even a lot of his "good positions" aren't that good. He very rarely sets up in the "dunker" spot, which is why you would think a guy looking for a duck-in, lob or put-back. Instead he sets up shop for a post-up, which is essentially calling your own number for an iso. That can certainly work sometimes, but a lot goes into getting a good post-up and Wemby doesn't tend to have all of that work done when he calls for the ball. People should look at how other teams enter to the post -- even for perimeter players -- versus what it looks like when Wemby wants the ball. Tonight there were multiple times when Wemby got pushed so far away from the basket that he was practically in the lap of the guy trying to pass him the ball. Some of the blame might be the angle other Spurs are taking to try the pass. But Wemby's unability to hold his position is definitely a part of the spacing issues. It doesn't help that other teams know Wemby's not inclined to pass and are totally going to double him when does catch the pass.

That's why everything has to be quick actions, and in order to have quick actions, everyone needs to be on the same page. That means the others have to have their heads on a swivel looking to make the pass, but it also means Victor needs to pick his moments better. He's only going to have a couple of seconds to get the ball, and he needs to only open those windows when there's a good chance he'll get a pass. The team should be prioritizing his off-ball game right now, but I think Victor really wants on-ball touches. I just don't think he's at the point where a lot of those are good for the team without him already being in rhythm.

Bro, you're trying to paint him out to be a guy that just picked up a basketball for the first time. I get that there's levels in basketball but come on. I'm sure the kid has posted up plenty in his short career and has some level of understanding of angles. We've all acknowledged that he spams the call for the ball button...including plenty of times when he's not even open. But there's also just times where it makes perfect sense to get him the ball and the pass just isn't made for whatever reason.

Unacceptable given the caliber of prospect he is compared to the rest of the guys.

[heyheymymy]

Does kinda seem like Vassell is quite the lynchpin holding this team together because this recent tumble really accelerated after his absence from injury. I know the LAC game was all hands on deck so granted that of course but this team looks totally adrift without Dev.

At least the Suns games show a bit of the proof of concept and hope Dev gets back to 100% soon.

[objective]

Well, Brogdon left tonight's game with a hamstring strain, so he probably won't be a viable trade possibly for awhile

[Fireball]

Embarassing first half ...

[Chinook]

Bro, you're trying to paint him out to be a guy that just picked up a basketball for the first time. I get that there's levels in basketball but come on. I'm sure the kid has posted up plenty in his short career and has some level of understanding of angles. We've all acknowledged that he spams the call for the ball button...including plenty of times when he's not even open. But there's also just times where it makes perfect sense to get him the ball and the pass just isn't made for whatever reason.

Unacceptable given the caliber of prospect he is compared to the rest of the guys.

I don't disagree here. That's why a good coach sits down with everyone and figures out how to make the connections work. Like sit down in the film room with the guys and show what good opportunities are and how to create them. Victor is trying to adjust to NBA ball, and that's harder than a lot of folks want to believe. There are openings he thinks are there than aren't. There are moves he thinks he can make that he can't. Him working on identifying those things will really help ease his sense of mind. Along those lines, Pop needs to get guys in a film room to figure out how to get the players to understand when certain conditions require a pass to Wemby and what to do when Wemby has good position but is losing it. Like they should take time each practice throwing contested lobs to Wemby as trainers push him around with foam boards. They should also work on all aspects of entry passing. They should have Wemby wear a blindfold and pivot around while guys run around him and try to snatch the ball out of his hands.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Also, there is still no one on this team trying to attack the paint via the dribble. The offense is gonna keep being shit til that changes. It is repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly said that Wemby can handle like a guard...

Defense is a lost cause because no speed or athleticism, on top of IQ stuff.

Edit: I wish I could be a fly on the wall in practice and film sessions. It seems like they don't actually do any game prep besides unorganized shoot-arounds.

[spurs1990]

After last years 10.1 average margin differential, Spurs are suffering another league leading 12.5 pts per game deficit. That’s including their three wins. New level of futility by the goat coach

https://i.ibb.co/9gGDPnf/IMG-5639.jpg

[RC_Drunkford]

They suck on defense, so Brunson's 40 won't matter. Wemby should absolutely feast.

this didn't age well

[Obstructed_View]

tre jones defence has become worst the last few games.....Dude cant shoot or play decent d....Hes a big reason
why we suking along with not rebounding
That's why he isn't an NBA starter. The extreme dislike for Sochan, who does both way better, remains puzzling.

[John B]

In the meantime Lonnie Walker led the Nets with 21 pts last night over the Clips. Lonnie has been averaging 15 pts coming off the bench for the Nets this season averaging 43.8% from 3pt :lol

[exstatic]

off topic but i havent really paid much attention to Scoot and the Blazers and just checked on his stats so far. holy shit did we really luck out getting the #1 pick :lol I know it's only been a few games and he will improve but his numbers are abysmal right now - 8.8ppg/4.5apg/2.2rpg on 34% shooting (9% from three :lmao) with 4 TOs and 4 fouls per game. going about as bad as it can for him so far

I don't think the Spurs would have drafted him. If he were the expected pick, I think they trade back. The thing that would have put them off would have been the fact that he did not dominate in a minor league, and in fact didn't improve year over year. He was just basically marking time to being drafted. That wouldn't be the work ethic and drive the Spurs would be looking for.

[exstatic]

In the meantime Lonnie Walker led the Nets with 21 pts last night over the Clips. Lonnie has been averaging 15 pts coming off the bench for the Nets this season averaging 43.8% from 3pt :lol

Shooting has never been Lonnie's problem. He doesn't finish at a high level, and plays atrocious defense, which is likely why he is coming off the bench.

[cd98]

The problem is people here generally tend to think that adding Wemby to essentially last year's roster guarantees the Spurs should be an 8th seed or at least the playin. Spurs jettisoned experienced players on last year's roster and there are only 2 veterans: Osman and McDermott. I don't think Pop sees winning as the primary goal right now. I think he sees this as a time to experiment and see what works and what doesn't work and evaluate the type of player they need. If they want to win games, they can be active trading for more experienced players, but I don't think they want to trade young guys and then have those players get to a better situation and do better and then regret not being more patient.

If you put Wemby on that Robinson team with Rod Strickland, Terry Porter, Willie Anderson (an underrated lop thrower), and another lottery pick in Sean Elliott, he'd be having a much easier time scoring. Same with if you paired him with Mario Ellie, Avery Johnson, David Robinson, Antonio Daniels, and Steve Kerr. That's unique that number one draft picks show up with rosters that are win now rosters. Mostly, first overall picks go to horrible offenses/defenses, and that is the case here. Early blow out losses are normal and this team will continue to improve. I don't think Pop cares about losing by 40 points right now and if the Spurs panicked and started looking to trade, they'd get crap offers. I think they just ride it out and see how things go and wait for the right deals to come into place.

[Arcadian]

I think Wemby looks for "advantageous position" too much. As I said, guys are out there running actions to get open threes, and Wemby is completely separated from the other four guys calling for the ball.

How do you know where he was supposed to be? Do you have access to the Spurs playbook? For all you know, he's told to go out there and freestyle. Isn't that pretty much what Pop has indicated?

[Mugen]

Anybody have any stats for Coaches Challenges (times challenged, success rate, etc.) from the last few years?

[timtonymanu]

Anybody have any stats for Coaches Challenges (times challenged, success rate, etc.) from the last few years?

Victor had to beg pop to use one during the Houston game when he got called for offensive interference :lol

[Raven]

I'll believe it when i see it. Just saying you are reaching very high and I don't think that's realistic given our history of attracting any big free agents in their prime. (Don't even say Aldrige!)

oh i don't see it happening either, but i mean, it is not outside of logic.