Complementing the Wemby Show

[z0sa]

The Spurs, moving forward for the foreseeable future, are and should be the Wemby Show.

Furthermore, it is expected at some point (hopefully sooner than later) that the Wemby Show and Co. contends for title numero ses.

Many here (probably rightly) consider the current season one of assessment and development.

But who on the current roster ACTUALLY complements our best player and the future of the franchise in a way that drives us towards another title?

Before we begin, it's important to immediately point out how young and capable of both foreseen and unforeseen growth our guys are. Furthermore, Pop forcing players into roles out of their comfort zone, like Sochan as PG, also should be looked at. Therefore, this is more of a single measurement that should be surveyed again and again to see where and how we should continue growing. If this is truly a developmental/tank season, then the least we can do is see who's actually developing into someone who will help Wemby in his (and vicariously, our) hunt for titles.

Let's discuss who we have and how they make the best player on our team better or worse .

Jeremy Sochan - does not complement Wemby at all as a PG. As a slashing wing or forward, maybe. Huge net negative for now - hurting Wemby's development. But could be a good player next to Wemby at a more natural position.

Devin Vassell - possible very strong complementary player. I'm not sure if he can grow into a true #2 or if we need all-star talent and has a lot of trouble finding Wemby. It's up in the air due to his injuries - he needs to get healthy and stay that way.

Keldon Johnson - wild card. I actually like KJ as trade fodder, but his hero balling ways aren't amazing for Wemby getting the ball at all. That said, one man can't win a title by himself. I see KJ as a possible sixth man on a title squad potential wise.

Zach Collins - I'm not sure he's got the physical talent to play center in this league. However, he's probably the only guy outside of Tre Jones who consistently gets Wemby the ball in decent positions. While the future of his role on the team might not be the starting C or even as a starter, I definitely think he complements Wemby.

Tre Jones - probably the only player who's clearly good alongside Wemby on the team. He doesn't have the size, shooting or athleticism to be more than a backup in this league, though. However for the moment, definitely good for the Wemby Show.

Malaki Branham - another wild card. There have been stretches (very short ones, admittedly) where he was able to do some decent floor general-ing. Usually, though, he's another KJ-esque player who's only looking for his own shot when he makes offensive moves or gets the ball in scoring position off movement. For the moment, he's a bit more of a positive than a negative, but not by much.

Cedi Osman - the new Spur, as a veteran who knows his role, is another one of the only guys on the team who I feel definitely/already complements Wemby. His outside shooting and poise is great -- hope he keeps it up, gels well with Wemby and and fits into the Spurs' plans moving forward.

Julian Champagnie - the problem with this one is his lack of experience, I hope. If he ever gets his 3 point stroke back, he's possibly a role player off the bench who can go for streaky shooting stretches when we need them. As a starter though, we can do a lot better and I don't think he does much for Wemby's growth if he can't hit open shots with a high rate.

Mamu - really like this guy's effort and IQ. If he can shoot the 3 and pass well consistently, another decent role player for the mix but interchangeable with myriad others across the league.

Charles Bassey - he doesn't get much run next to Wemby but he's deceptively good for his size and length. He's got great timing on blocked shots, but really needs an outside jumper. Tentatively a good backup who won't make a bunch of terrible mistakes if he works extremely hard. I see him as a Haslem type and that's actually not bad at all.

Doug McBuckets - one of those glue guys and our oldest guy on the team. Definitely feel like his 3pt shooting off the bench would be good on a contender. He just needs to take care of the ball a bit better and ensure he's always facilitating the offense when he's in, because he ain't wowing anyone with his defense.


To summarize: all of these guys need to show they can help Wemby win. Who's going to get on the gravy train and who's going to be an obstacle on the court to facilitating Wemby's growth?

[LeBowen]

Good post.

It's obvious that Devin is a keeper...if he can stay healthy, ugh.
Tre is a solid backup, Sochan should be used in his natural position as you said. Meaning either as a 6th man or as a starting PF if Wemby starts at C in some matchups.
Some others could be solid bench options like Osman or Keldon, but to me they're all prime trade candidates.
Spurs have a ridiculous amount of assets and creating a solid team while keeping important picks should be easy.


The biggest need is obvious, Spurs really need a floor general. I don't know who, when or how, but it's needed asap.
Then as many 3-D guys as possible.

New PG, Devin and Tre can be the creators, Jeremy can be the glue guy and Wemby obviously would be the first option alongside new PG.
Then it's all about defense and spacing, it's 2023, we can't afford any more slow-footed charity cases if we're to compete.

[Extra Stout]

Devin — would be a keeper if he could stay healthy. It’s a real question whether he can.

Sochan — he has talent, but his natural position is PF, which is what Wemby is playing. Eventually Wemby will move to C, but that could take years. He is not and never will be a point guard. Sochan might need to be traded in order to develop properly.

KJ — fool’s gold. He’s a marginal contributor on a good team. His outsized role on the Spurs comes because the talent is so bad.

Zach Collins — on a real team he’d be a backup center playing spot minutes.

Tre Jones — backup point guard

Devonte’ Graham — backup point guard

Cedi Osman — replacement-level player who looks like a solid contributor because the talent is so bad.

Doug McDermott — replacement-level player

Malaki Branham — G-League player who might improve

Charles Bassey — G-League player

Julian Champagnie — G-League player

Mamu — G-League player

Blake Wesley — not even a G-League player

They wanted to “see what they have.” 14 games in, it’s already clear that what they have is a pile of shit.

[scott]

If you just take normal roster turnover into account, that by itself would tell you that by the team the Spurs are able to compete (3 years minimum, probably more like 5 years) the roster will look completely different. Then you add in the fact that most of these players suck it not that hot of a take to say that the vast majority of these players will not be on the Spurs by the time we start being competitive.

IMO, the Spurs can recognize that now and jump start the process by making moves to surround Wemby with better, more likely to be part of the future, players now via trade. We have tons of draft capital, in fact, more than can possibly be used. I don't think building exclusively through the draft is the way to go because then you'll always been waiting on that next guy to develop as you lose other guys you've already developed and get caught in the hamster wheel. While that's happening, you run the risk of disenfranchising your true Superstar, perhaps the player with the most star power who has ever worn a Spurs jersey in his prime*. Spurs Priority #1 has to be making sure Wemby is happy and in San Antonio. Nothing else matters as much as that.

But, maybe Wemby is perfectly okay with this display because they've convinced him of some grand plan. I wouldn't know, but I have a hard time believing it.

*Dominique and TMac also had the Star Power that Wemby does, but both were aged-out vets by the time they joined the Silver and Black. Duncan, DRob, Neph, Tony, Manu never had the star power Wemby does. Maybe Gervin was up there.

[exstatic]

Devin — would be a keeper if he could stay healthy. It’s a real question whether he can.

Sochan — he has talent, but his natural position is PF, which is what Wemby is playing. Eventually Wemby will move to C, but that could take years. He is not and never will be a point guard. Sochan might need to be traded in order to develop properly.

KJ — fool’s gold. He’s a marginal contributor on a good team. His outsized role on the Spurs comes because the talent is so bad.

Zach Collins — on a real team he’d be a backup center playing spot minutes.

Tre Jones — backup point guard

Devonte’ Graham — backup point guard

Cedi Osman — replacement-level player who looks like a solid contributor because the talent is so bad.

Doug McDermott — replacement-level player

Malaki Branham — G-League player who might improve

Charles Bassey — G-League player

Julian Champagnie — G-League player

Mamu — G-League player

Blake Wesley — not even a G-League player

They wanted to “see what they have.” 14 games in, it’s already clear that what they have is a pile of shit.

You’ve obviously never seen a gleague game.

[JeffDuncan]

The Spurs, moving forward for the foreseeable future, are and should be the Wemby Show.
…
But who on the current roster ACTUALLY complements [Wemby]?
…
Jeremy Sochan - …



Too raw to tell. Sochan is not a very good player now, at either end. Needs serious, honest, coaching and experience at his correct position. The way he’s being misused and abused it’s impossible to say whether he could ever be a good complement for Wemby.



Devin Vassell - …



Good shooter, so yes he complements Wemby. The injury concerns expressed are unwise. The injury rate in the NBA is so high that if you allow yourself to be guided by that, you’ll never sign anybody. The way to handle the possibility of injury is by having another good shooter coming off the bench behind him. Bench strength, “next man up.” You wouldn’t expect bench players to be as good as the starters, just good enough to keep the team going. That’s how to handle injuries, which WILL happen.



Keldon Johnson - …



Could be replaced by almost any SF in the league who can score enough points. Keldon is a lousy complement to Wemby because he’s too self-centered. At least he seems, for now, to have stopped kissing himself. Might be alright coming off the bench, maybe. Maybe.

[Pauleta14]

I don't think Tre even as a back up PG has the level. He'd be a liability and pressured the 10-15min he'd play

Too small and no particular strength, neither shooting, defense or passing

I don't get it

Pls someone explain me what I'm missing wth him haha

[JeffDuncan]

My view of Tre is that he’s good enough so replacing him is a low priority, far down on the list of what the team needs. If an opportunity comes along for a better backup pg, grab it of course. Actively shopping for a backup pg, now, isn’t the way to improve the team, tho. A minor concern, for the future.

[Kawhi Duncan]

I don't think Tre even as a back up PG has the level. He'd be a liability and pressured the 10-15min he'd play

Too small and no particular strength, neither shooting, defense or passing

I don't get it

Pls someone explain me what I'm missing wth him haha

Tre consistently is one of the top PGs at assist/turnover ratio... He is a good passer

[TD 21]

Out of the extended core (starters + Jones and Branham), Vassell is the only long term keeper/complement to Wembanyama.

I expect them to pretend with Sochan and maybe Jones and Collins, but not Johnson and Branham.

They need virtually everything, all of which has been discussed ad nauseam.

Most of all, they need to re-think their entire ethos/draft philosophy and stop having such a narrow minded view of "character" and prioritizing that above ell else.

The team is filled with choir boys, who don't check any specific box either physically or skillset wise, which is why this team sucks at virtually everything and has no identity.

[Raven]

tre jones is easily the worst of the bunch.

[Pauleta14]

Tre litteraly through lobs BELOW the rim ffs

Everybody can score on him bc he's too small

Liking Tre is a clear symptom of the losing mentality that has attached itself to this franchise.

He makes Beno Udrih look like Steph Curry

[scott]

I look forward to the day when our backup PG is what's holding us back. For now, Tre is the least of our concerns.

[paperboy77]

Kinda like what you said but for me this is how I see it plus Wemby. Also, Pop needs to be humbled somehow. Maybe ownership starts making some noise about him. Also, on the guys you are down on... those need to be treated like team fodder and totally cut-able. We can't develop everyone and don't need to. Either they fit or they don't get on the court. Pop gives them too much rope.

Jeremy Sochan - Top 6 Player only at Forward or Small ball Center

Devin Vassell - Top 6 player only if healthy.

Keldon Johnson - Bench player, 7 or 8th man. Trade bait if possible.

Zach Collins - Bench player. Package in a trade if possible.

Tre Jones - Top 6 player. At this point, the Starting PG. Until there's a replacement, he starts.

Malaki Branham - Deep bench, maybe backup 2 guard.

Cedi Osman - Definitely first man off the bench. Maybe the final starter at SF.

Julian Champagnie - Scrub. Should be in Austin or packaged out. Don't care about his confidence. Seen him come of the bench in trash minutes and doesn't hustle his ass off. Smells of Luka Samich.

Mamu - For me top 6 player. Pop must find a way to pair this guy with Wemby.

Charles Bassey - Third big off the bench or part of a trade package.

Doug McBuckets - Probably trade bait but only if unavoidable. Part of the rotation.

[Pauleta14]

scott ...

I disagree

He's as much a concern as Sochan at PG

Those are our 2 playmakers supposed to feed Victor and NONE is capable or doing so

Tre is even worse than Sochan who at least can impact defensively

[Tyronn Lue]

The moves before deadline will be interesting. Sure they suck balls, but how much of that is pure suckage vs teams figured out Victor at his age/experience level?

[CGD]

Lowe’s analysis about Keldon in the piece below is spot on. Hes simply lost out there after a year where he was “the man” and it’s costing the team doubly: lower output from the player himself, and lower production from the position generally. He really should be first off the bench, but Pop won’t do that.

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-keldon-johnson-role-fit-victor-wembanyama-roster

It feels like if the right offer came the Spurs would move him this deadline, but the more interesting question is whether the Spurs would use Keldon and picks to proactively go get someone they like.

[Extra Stout]

Lowe’s analysis about Keldon in the piece below is spot on. Hes simply lost out there after a year where he was “the man” and it’s costing the team doubly: lower output from the player himself, and lower production from the position generally. He really should be first off the bench, but Pop won’t do that.

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-keldon-johnson-role-fit-victor-wembanyama-roster

It feels like if the right offer came the Spurs would move him this deadline, but the more interesting question is whether the Spurs would use Keldon and picks to proactively go get someone they like.
Johnson could come off the bench. But a Sochan-Jones lineup is a huge liability on shooting. I think they would have to start Graham. Frankly, I don’t know why they don’t.

[scott]

scott ...

I disagree

He's as much a concern as Sochan at PG

Those are our 2 playmakers supposed to feed Victor and NONE is capable or doing so

Tre is even worse than Sochan who at least can impact defensively

I'm not saying Tre Jones is what we should build our franchise around, but if you think he is the problem I'm not sure what games you are watching.

Of all the two-man lineups that have played greater than 30 minutes together this season, only 5 have a positive net rating, and 4 of those have Tre Jones in them.



Lineup
GP
MIN
ORTG
DRTG
NETRTG


Vassell-Jones
7
99
123.6
102.3
21.4


Jones-Wembanyama
11
159
116.1
105.2
10.9


Jones-Sochan
11
69
116.4
110.3
6.2


Johnson-Champagnie
4
50
108.7
102.8
5.9


Collins-Jones
11
117
114.1
112.3
1.8



You say that Jones is worse that Sochan, but Sochan's best minutes by Net Rating come when he is sharing the court with Tre Jones, and he's a negative without Jones on the court.

[Pauleta14]

I'm not saying he's our main pb but he's definitely one that shouldn't be underrated like most of u seem to do (maybe by opposition from way worst cases)

Those stats are irrelevant bc the whole team sucks and Pop's linups are often weird (so limiting the data of 2/5 doesn't make sense, it depends a lot on the other 3 on the court too)

My point isn't to shit on Tre, i can see he can do stuff decently and at least gives it all etcbut BB is all about matchups and Tre iwill lose every type he'll face bc of his size and inability to score.

Giving 10M/season for THAT is surreal to me (good for him and his family tho)

[Pauleta14]

Tre is obviously better than Sochan offensively, but Sochan is A LOT better on defense

Sochan wins slightly overall, both suck as PG and both are handicaping Victor's development

[exstatic]

I'm not saying he's our main pb but he's definitely one that shouldn't be underrated like most of u seem to do (maybe by opposition from way worst cases)

Those stats are irrelevant bc the whole team sucks and Pop's linups are often weird (so limiting the data of 2/5 doesn't make sense, it depends a lot on the other 3 on the court too)

My point isn't to shit on Tre, i can see he can do stuff decently and at least gives it all etcbut BB is all about matchups and Tre iwill lose every type he'll face bc of his size and inability to score.

Giving 10M/season for THAT is surreal to me (good for him and his family tho)

$10M isn’t even the middle class exception, it’s literally nothing in NBA terms. It was also only for 2 years.

[boutons_deux]

Devin is useless if he can't. Stay healthy

Look how many games he missed last year and already this year

[mudd]

Halliburton would have been the best fit with Wemby. Wright got it wrong!

[DesignatedT]

Halliburton would have been the best fit with Wemby. Wright got it wrong!

They wouldn't have gotten Wemby if they had drafted Haliburton. He was good enough to prevent the tank.

[exstatic]

Halliburton would have been the best fit with Wemby. Wright got it wrong!

GettingHalliburton likely means no Wemby. We couldn’t have been bad enough.

[scott]

They wouldn't have gotten Wemby if they had drafted Haliburton. He was good enough to prevent the tank.

Not even Wemby is good enough to prevent a tank - why do we think Haliburton would have been?

[RC_Drunkford]

if this is the Wemby show the Spurs should first fix the announcing of the starting line up. From what I know, the star player is the last one out of the starting 5 to be announced, but here Wemby is 3rd and our "star" is Keldon Johnson :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

GettingHalliburton likely means no Wemby. We couldn’t have been bad enough.

you're doubting Pop? He would say "you got long arms young man. You can play center"

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think on a championship contender, Wemby is number 1, Vassell could start but be our 4th option. Tre could be sharing backup point duties with another veteran PG. Maybe McDermott and/or Osman 10th and/or 11th in the rotation. Collins as the backup big, with another wiley vet. Collins is the only guy playing with heart right now (other than Osman) and that counts for something.Maybe Johnson keeps a backup role, but I'm not sure. Not sold on Sochan this year at all, but maybe if he gets to play his natural position my thoughts will change. He's so inconsistent and some of that competitive fire isn't there right now. No one else on the roster feels like they belong on a contender.


So basically we have 5 or 6 guys and only two starters. The 2nd and 3rd members of the new big 3 aren't on the team yet, unless by some miracle Vassell grows into that role and figures out how to stay on the floor.
We need 7 guys and two all-star level starters. This team has some work to do.

[Obstructed_View]

Not even Wemby is good enough to prevent a tank - why do we think Haliburton would have been?
The Spurs lost a coin toss with Houston, and that's how they won the lottery. A difference of one game would have changed the outcome.

[JeffDuncan]

if this is the Wemby show the Spurs should first fix the announcing of the starting line up. From what I know, the star player is the last one out of the starting 5 to be announced, but here Wemby is 3rd and our "star" is Keldon Johnson :lol


I noticed that too. It’s only more stupidity, from an organization that’s gone stupid in nearly every way.

When’s the last time the Spurs did something smart? Serious question. I’m trying to remember….. Surely there’s something.

[baseline bum]

I noticed that too. It’s only more stupidity, from an organization that’s gone stupid in nearly every way.

When’s the last time the Spurs did something smart? Serious question. I’m trying to remember….. Surely there’s something.

Getting an unprotected pick swap for Reggie Bullock and some seconds a couple of months ago was pretty amazing.

[JeffDuncan]

Getting an unprotected pick swap for Reggie Bullock and some seconds a couple of months ago was pretty amazing.


That was when they acquired Bullock in connection with the Grant Williams trade. The Spurs facilitated the Williams trade. The Mavs moved Bullock to the Spurs so they could bring in Williams from the Celtics.

The Spurs got a 2030 1st round pick swap, which does them no good at all for trying to build around Wemby in the near future. The Spurs also gave up some picks. They traded a 2024 second rd pick to the Celtics. (The team NEEDS near-term picks.) They also gave up a 2025 second rd pick to the Mavs, (the team NEEDS near-term picks,) and a 2028 second rd pick to the Mavs.

Then the Spurs just waived Bullock with no return. So as far as players for the Spurs, they got nothing (for a roster that NEEDS players.) The Rockets signed Bullock off waivers. The Rockets have some extra second rd picks for the next couple drafts, btw.

In short:

1) The Spurs gained a distant 1st rd pick swap that’s worthless for building around Wemby.

2) They gave up two near-term 2nd rd picks, which might have been used more intelligently near the trade deadline or near the draft, if the Spurs weren’t going to use the picks themselves.

3) They “gained” a player who wasn’t useful, and just waived him, and he was then signed by a team that has some extra 2nd rd picks, near term.

None of that looks smart to me.

[exstatic]

That was when they acquired Bullock in connection with the Grant Williams trade. The Spurs facilitated the Williams trade. The Mavs moved Bullock to the Spurs so they could bring in Williams from the Celtics.

The Spurs got a 2030 1st round pick swap, which does them no good at all for trying to build around Wemby in the near future. The Spurs also gave up some picks. They traded a 2024 second rd pick to the Celtics. (The team NEEDS near-term picks.) They also gave up a 2025 second rd pick to the Mavs, (the team NEEDS near-term picks,) and a 2028 second rd pick to the Mavs.

Then the Spurs just waived Bullock with no return. So as far as players for the Spurs, they got nothing (for a roster that NEEDS players.) The Rockets signed Bullock off waivers. The Rockets have some extra second rd picks for the next couple drafts, btw.

In short:

1) The Spurs gained a distant 1st rd pick swap that’s worthless for building around Wemby.

2) They gave up two near-term 2nd rd picks, which might have been used more intelligently near the trade deadline or near the draft, if the Spurs weren’t going to use the picks themselves.

3) They “gained” a player who wasn’t useful, and just waived him, and he was then signed by a team that has some extra 2nd rd picks, near term.

None of that looks smart to me.

Now you’re just moving the goalposts. Getting a FRP swap, no matter when it is, and it’s actually probably better that it’s down the line, just for dead cap space that they must use anyway is smart. You’re just pissed off and hating.

[JeffDuncan]

Now you’re just moving the goalposts. Getting a FRP swap, no matter when it is, and it’s actually probably better that it’s down the line, just for dead cap space that they must use anyway is smart. You’re just pissed off and hating.


None of that was smart.

[exstatic]

None of that was smart.

Sure it was, if you understand what renting cap space is about. It’s not about acquiring a positive asset. If Bullock were such a player, they wouldn’t send an unprotected FRP swap with him. He’s dead money that we have to spend to hit the salary floor, and he was designed to be cut from day one,just like Payne and the other guy from the Cleveland trade. So, we combined 3 of like 17 SRPs that we have out to the trade horizon in 2030 into an unprotected FRP, and used cap space that we had to. Smart.

[Pauleta14]

The Spurs gained nothing short term and THAT should be the focus

Let's not act like Wemby isn't a franchise changer or didn't already raised the franchise value more than 1 billion

Spurs taking care of 2030 instead of 2023-24-25

Wemby is really unlucky to have ended up in SA tbh

[baseline bum]

In short:

1) The Spurs gained a distant 1st rd pick swap that’s worthless for building around Wemby.

2) They gave up two near-term 2nd rd picks, which might have been used more intelligently near the trade deadline or near the draft, if the Spurs weren’t going to use the picks themselves.

3) They “gained” a player who wasn’t useful, and just waived him, and he was then signed by a team that has some extra 2nd rd picks, near term.

None of that looks smart to me.

Nonsense. If Doncic leaves Dallas that swap becomes an insanely valuable trade piece to get someone to put next to Wemby in his prime. And if Doncic stays it still gives the Spurs the ability to offer someone the better of two picks to build around Wemby. And who gives a shit about seconds? The Spurs have a billion of them. But if you want another example, can go with getting two unprotected firsts and an unprotected pick swap for a guy Murray they apparently weren't going to give a max contract to. Plus the two Charlotte seconds since you're so hung up on seconds. How about trading Thaddeus Young for a first? Getting a first out of Chicago when they were happy to let DeRozan walk for nothing? Accumulating firsts is how you make trades for stars.

[baseline bum]

The Spurs gained nothing short term and THAT should be the focus

Let's not act like Wemby isn't a franchise changer or didn't already raised the franchise value more than 1 billion

Spurs taking care of 2030 instead of 2023-24-25

Wemby is really unlucky to have ended up in SA tbh

Spurs are still set up decently long term with all the picks they have, and with two unprotected first plus two unprotected pick swaps plus one pick swap only protected against #1. That's an enormous amount of draft capital they can do really interesting things with to put a supporting cast around Victor as he grows plus whatever they can get out of the Toronto pick and their own this summer.

[CGD]

The Spurs gained nothing short term and THAT should be the focus

Let's not act like Wemby isn't a franchise changer or didn't already raised the franchise value more than 1 billion

Spurs taking care of 2030 instead of 2023-24-25

Wemby is really unlucky to have ended up in SA tbh

Good God man. You must be the life of the party!
Wemby is fine, this team will look radically different in his third year, which is when he’ll be really good. Let’s not act like Wemby doesn’t have a long way to go still, if even just in terms of getting stronger physically.

[Pauleta14]

I'm fine with the process, even tanking etc

I just don't get that FO thought they didn't need veterans or skilled passers

It's imposing an unnecessary handicap on their futur franchise player who has a target on his bck every games

I've never seen that in any franchise

[JeffDuncan]

Sure it was, if you understand what renting cap space is about. It’s not about acquiring a positive asset. …



It was not smart. Which of these is smart:

Use salary space on a useful player, or, use salary space on a useless player?

Hint, useful is better than useless.

Your answer?

[Pauleta14]

^ THIS

[exstatic]

I'm fine with the process, even tanking etc

I just don't get that FO thought they didn't need veterans or skilled passers

It's imposing an unnecessary handicap on their futur franchise player who has a target on his bck every games

I've never seen that in any franchise

So, you’re fine with tanking, but you don’t understand it at all. You don’t go get positive assets, veteran or otherwise, that might accidentally cause you to win more games than you would have without them.

[exstatic]

It was not smart. Which of these is smart:

Use salary space on a useful player, or, use salary space on a useless player?

Hint, useful is better than useless.

Your answer?

That’s only if you view players as the only assets in a trade. Not smart, to quote you.

Who were these marvelous players who were available for cheap? Because if you aren’t going to accrue assets, you damn well not be spending them on short term pieces.

[CGD]

Who says no:

SAS: Garland
CLE: Keldon, Tre, Branham, and a FRP

Cleveland bets on Mitchell at the PG, and gets much needed depth and balance to their roster. Spurs get their PG of the future, move Sochan to his natural position, and still have assets to replenish any SG/SF needs they may have traded away.

Garland
Vassell
Sochan
Wemby
Collins

Our bench is shit, but it’s not like it’s great now anyway.

[Pauleta14]

You can tank constuctively

[RC_Drunkford]

Who says no:

SAS: Garland
CLE: Keldon, Tre, Branham, and a FRP

Cleveland bets on Mitchell at the PG, and gets much needed depth and balance to their roster. Spurs get their PG of the future, move Sochan to his natural position, and still have assets to replenish any SG/SF needs they may have traded away.

Garland
Vassell
Sochan
Wemby
Collins

Our bench is shit, but it’s not like it’s great now anyway.

Cleveland says no. They will trade Mitchell not Garland

[JeffDuncan]

Nonsense. If Doncic leaves Dallas …



If cows flew like jet fighters you could fly cows off aircraft carriers. Whee. Moo.

Nobody knows how things will be in 2030. But we do know that the Spurs need to be building around Victor in the very near future. Even now.

If Spurs seconds are so worthless, why did the Celtics and Mavs even want them, and why couldn’t the Spurs get a second for Bullock when they decided not to keep him?


But if you want another example, can go with getting two unprotected firsts and an unprotected pick swap for a guy Murray …



Atlanta initiated that because Trae Young wanted Murray.

Getting rid of players is not the point now. Getting players is.

It would be smart of the Spurs FO to initiate something, and get a useful player. You don’t agree?

Failing to get useful players, now, is not smart.


…Accumulating firsts is how you make trades for stars.


Making trades for stars is done by making trades for stars.

Trading away players, and tanking, is not being “smart.” Any FO could do that. Any of them. A Jr High School chess club could do it, easily.

A smart FO is one that can build a good team. The Spurs FO has a long way to go to prove they’re anywhere close to being smart.

Brian Wright’s record as GM:

32-39
33-39
34-48
22-60
3-11, so far

Not much sign of smarts there, so far. Cross your fingers.

[JeffDuncan]

That’s only if you view players as the only assets in a trade. …



Let me know when you see a piece of paper score 20 points in an NBA game.

The players are the only reason all that other stuff even exists.

If you don’t understand it’s all about players, you don’t understand anything.



Because if you aren’t going to accrue assets, you damn well not be spending them on short term pieces.


You’d rather have a file of paper than a decent point guard for this current Spurs team, you say? Is that right?

[exstatic]

You can tank constuctively

No you can’t. You do things to lose games. There is nothing constructive about that. Anything constructive works against the tank.

[Pauleta14]

I disagree, You can play on the PT, game played or rotations to tank smartly

What's happening is pathetic, very little positive and a lot of unnecessary handicaps

[z0sa]

I disagree, You can play on the PT, game played or rotations to tank smartly

What's happening is pathetic, very little positive and a lot of unnecessary handicaps

That's the real issue if we want to talk tank. Tank and developmental seasons don't have to be mutually exclusive at all.

[spurraider21]

You’ve obviously never seen a gleague game.
We all saw 82 gleague games last season

[stnick2261]

The problem with the original Spurs dynasty was the fact that they didn't have the assets to reload after they started winning. The draft is designed so bad teams get the best players (to stop dynasties and increase parity in the league). When the Spurs were consistently the best team in the league, they were drafting around #30 every year. Not only that, they didn't even have a 1st round draft pick every year because of some bad decisions. In order for us to get rid of Richard Jefferson, we had to include our 2012 1st round pick. That draft had Draymond Green and Khris Middleton still on the board at that pick.

In 2005 (in the middle of our dynasty) we traded Malik Rose and 2 first round picks for 103 game rental of Nazr Mohammed. Those 2 picks were #30 in 2005 (David Lee) and #29 in 2006 (Paul Millsap was available).

Once we are done with our tanking, you are going to want the Spurs to have other team's draft picks in our basket of assets. You need to re-load with players that aren't necessarily remaining at pick 30. Pick swaps are also wonderful when your pick is #30 (even if it only gives you a few spots).

2013, our pick was #28. We drafted LJC right after Rudy Gobert (#27)
2017, our pick was #29. We drafted Derrick White. Jarrett Allen went #22 and OG Anunoby went #23
2018, our pick was #18. We drafted Lonnie Walker IV. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander went #11

[z0sa]

The problem with the original Spurs dynasty was the fact that they didn't have the assets to reload after they started winning. The draft is designed so bad teams get the best players (to stop dynasties and increase parity in the league). When the Spurs were consistently the best team in the league, they were drafting around #30 every year. Not only that, they didn't even have a 1st round draft pick every year because of some bad decisions. In order for us to get rid of Richard Jefferson, we had to include our 2012 1st round pick. That draft had Draymond Green and Khris Middleton still on the board at that pick.

In 2005 (in the middle of our dynasty) we traded Malik Rose and 2 first round picks for 103 game rental of Nazr Mohammed. Those 2 picks were #30 in 2005 (David Lee) and #29 in 2006 (Paul Millsap was available).

Once we are done with our tanking, you are going to want the Spurs to have other team's draft picks in our basket of assets. You need to re-load with players that aren't necessarily remaining at pick 30. Pick swaps are also wonderful when your pick is #30 (even if it only gives you a few spots).

2013, our pick was #28. We drafted LJC right after Rudy Gobert (#27)
2017, our pick was #29. We drafted Derrick White. Jarrett Allen went #22 and OG Anunoby went #23
2018, our pick was #18. We drafted Lonnie Walker IV. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander went #11

I'm more concerned about what our current roster does for Wemby rather than speculating too much about potential trades, but I really like what you've written up. That said, I can't say I agree. I feel like we've got the right pieces (including picks) to make moves - we should do so. 3 main reasons:

1, expecting another Duncan-esque dynasty is too much even for Wemby. I'm not saying I don't want that - fuck, I hope it does happen. But I'd be happy with just one more LOB. Thus between hoarding picks and trying to over-develop rather than make win-now moves over the next couple seasons utilizing those picks (if necessary), I personally would greatly prefer the latter option.

2, If our window of contention peters out after only 5-7 years, the good news is Wemby's young enough that you could ride the lottery again and he'd still be <30 and healthy, most likely. (always assuming health!)

3, If we DON'T assume health, as could definitely be the case for a freak of nature like Wemby, then over-developing and relying too much on the long game could cost us our entire championship window entirely.

That said, I agree the Spurs do appear to be playing the long game and hoping to draft and develop again a la Tony and Manu. But both were late picks in their respective rounds, so really how important are those high picks in the end? It'd be interesting to see if the Spurs picks from the Duncan era (Manu/Tony/Kawhi) were flashes in the pan from the FO standpoint and they truly just got lucky and/or were so far ahead of the curve on Europeans (for TP/Manu) they really were no-brainers.

Edit: Manu obv isn't european but he played euroball before CoM crucifies me