Complementing the Wemby Show

[z0sa]

The Spurs, moving forward for the foreseeable future, are and should be the Wemby Show.

Furthermore, it is expected at some point (hopefully sooner than later) that the Wemby Show and Co. contends for le numero ses.

Many here (probably rightly) consider the current season one of assessment and development.

But who on the current roster ACTUALLY complements our best player and the future of the franchise in a way that drives us towards another le?

Before we begin, it's important to immediately point out how young and capable of both foreseen and unforeseen growth our guys are. Furthermore, Pop forcing players into roles out of their comfort zone, like Sochan as PG, also should be looked at. Therefore, this is more of a single measurement that should be surveyed again and again to see where and how we should continue growing. If this is truly a developmental/tank season, then the least we can do is see who's actually developing into someone who will help Wemby in his (and vicariously, our) hunt for les.

Let's discuss who we have and how they make the best player on our team better or worse .

Jeremy Sochan - does not complement Wemby at all as a PG. As a slashing wing or forward, maybe. Huge net negative for now - hurting Wemby's development. But could be a good player next to Wemby at a more natural position.

Devin Vassell - possible very strong complementary player. I'm not sure if he can grow into a true #2 or if we need all-star talent and has a lot of trouble finding Wemby. It's up in the air due to his injuries - he needs to get healthy and stay that way.

Keldon Johnson - wild card. I actually like KJ as trade fodder, but his hero balling ways aren't amazing for Wemby getting the ball at all. That said, one man can't win a le by himself. I see KJ as a possible sixth man on a le squad potential wise.

Zach Collins - I'm not sure he's got the physical talent to play center in this league. However, he's probably the only guy outside of Tre Jones who consistently gets Wemby the ball in decent positions. While the future of his role on the team might not be the starting C or even as a starter, I definitely think he complements Wemby.

Tre Jones - probably the only player who's clearly good alongside Wemby on the team. He doesn't have the size, shooting or athleticism to be more than a backup in this league, though. However for the moment, definitely good for the Wemby Show.

Malaki Branham - another wild card. There have been stretches (very short ones, admittedly) where he was able to do some decent floor general-ing. Usually, though, he's another KJ-esque player who's only looking for his own shot when he makes offensive moves or gets the ball in scoring position off movement. For the moment, he's a bit more of a positive than a negative, but not by much.

Cedi Osman - the new Spur, as a veteran who knows his role, is another one of the only guys on the team who I feel definitely/already complements Wemby. His outside shooting and poise is great -- hope he keeps it up, gels well with Wemby and and fits into the Spurs' plans moving forward.

Julian Champagnie - the problem with this one is his lack of experience, I hope. If he ever gets his 3 point stroke back, he's possibly a role player off the bench who can go for streaky shooting stretches when we need them. As a starter though, we can do a lot better and I don't think he does much for Wemby's growth if he can't hit open shots with a high rate.

Mamu - really like this guy's effort and IQ. If he can shoot the 3 and pass well consistently, another decent role player for the mix but interchangeable with myriad others across the league.

Charles Bassey - he doesn't get much run next to Wemby but he's deceptively good for his size and length. He's got great timing on blocked shots, but really needs an outside jumper. Tentatively a good backup who won't make a bunch of terrible mistakes if he works extremely hard. I see him as a Haslem type and that's actually not bad at all.

Doug McBuckets - one of those glue guys and our oldest guy on the team. Definitely feel like his 3pt shooting off the bench would be good on a contender. He just needs to take care of the ball a bit better and ensure he's always facilitating the offense when he's in, because he ain't wowing anyone with his defense.


To summarize: all of these guys need to show they can help Wemby win. Who's going to get on the gravy train and who's going to be an obstacle on the court to facilitating Wemby's growth?

[LeBowen]

Good post.

It's obvious that Devin is a keeper...if he can stay healthy, ugh.
Tre is a solid backup, Sochan should be used in his natural position as you said. Meaning either as a 6th man or as a starting PF if Wemby starts at C in some matchups.
Some others could be solid bench options like Osman or Keldon, but to me they're all prime trade candidates.
Spurs have a ridiculous amount of assets and creating a solid team while keeping important picks should be easy.


The biggest need is obvious, Spurs really need a floor general. I don't know who, when or how, but it's needed asap.
Then as many 3-D guys as possible.

New PG, Devin and Tre can be the creators, Jeremy can be the glue guy and Wemby obviously would be the first option alongside new PG.
Then it's all about defense and spacing, it's 2023, we can't afford any more slow-footed charity cases if we're to compete.

[Extra Stout]

Devin — would be a keeper if he could stay healthy. It’s a real question whether he can.

Sochan — he has talent, but his natural position is PF, which is what Wemby is playing. Eventually Wemby will move to C, but that could take years. He is not and never will be a point guard. Sochan might need to be traded in order to develop properly.

KJ — fool’s gold. He’s a marginal contributor on a good team. His outsized role on the Spurs comes because the talent is so bad.

Zach Collins — on a real team he’d be a backup center playing spot minutes.

Tre Jones — backup point guard

Devonte’ Graham — backup point guard

Cedi Osman — replacement-level player who looks like a solid contributor because the talent is so bad.

Doug McDermott — replacement-level player

Malaki Branham — G-League player who might improve

Charles Bassey — G-League player

Julian Champagnie — G-League player

Mamu — G-League player

Blake Wesley — not even a G-League player

They wanted to “see what they have.” 14 games in, it’s already clear that what they have is a pile of .

[scott]

If you just take normal roster turnover into account, that by itself would tell you that by the team the Spurs are able to compete (3 years minimum, probably more like 5 years) the roster will look completely different. Then you add in the fact that most of these players suck it not that hot of a take to say that the vast majority of these players will not be on the Spurs by the time we start being compe ive.

IMO, the Spurs can recognize that now and jump start the process by making moves to surround Wemby with better, more likely to be part of the future, players now via trade. We have tons of draft capital, in fact, more than can possibly be used. I don't think building exclusively through the draft is the way to go because then you'll always been waiting on that next guy to develop as you lose other guys you've already developed and get caught in the hamster wheel. While that's happening, you run the risk of disenfranchising your true Superstar, perhaps the player with the most star power who has ever worn a Spurs jersey in his prime*. Spurs Priority #1 has to be making sure Wemby is happy and in San Antonio. Nothing else matters as much as that.

But, maybe Wemby is perfectly okay with this display because they've convinced him of some grand plan. I wouldn't know, but I have a hard time believing it.

*Dominique and TMac also had the Star Power that Wemby does, but both were aged-out vets by the time they joined the Silver and Black. Duncan, DRob, Neph, Tony, Manu never had the star power Wemby does. Maybe Gervin was up there.

[exstatic]

Devin — would be a keeper if he could stay healthy. It’s a real question whether he can.

Sochan — he has talent, but his natural position is PF, which is what Wemby is playing. Eventually Wemby will move to C, but that could take years. He is not and never will be a point guard. Sochan might need to be traded in order to develop properly.

KJ — fool’s gold. He’s a marginal contributor on a good team. His outsized role on the Spurs comes because the talent is so bad.

Zach Collins — on a real team he’d be a backup center playing spot minutes.

Tre Jones — backup point guard

Devonte’ Graham — backup point guard

Cedi Osman — replacement-level player who looks like a solid contributor because the talent is so bad.

Doug McDermott — replacement-level player

Malaki Branham — G-League player who might improve

Charles Bassey — G-League player

Julian Champagnie — G-League player

Mamu — G-League player

Blake Wesley — not even a G-League player

They wanted to “see what they have.” 14 games in, it’s already clear that what they have is a pile of .

You’ve obviously never seen a gleague game.

[JeffDuncan]

The Spurs, moving forward for the foreseeable future, are and should be the Wemby Show.
…
But who on the current roster ACTUALLY complements [Wemby]?
…
Jeremy Sochan - …

Too raw to tell. Sochan is not a very good player now, at either end. Needs serious, honest, coaching and experience at his correct position. The way he’s being misused and abused it’s impossible to say whether he could ever be a good complement for Wemby.

Devin Vassell - …

Good shooter, so yes he complements Wemby. The injury concerns expressed are unwise. The injury rate in the NBA is so high that if you allow yourself to be guided by that, you’ll never sign anybody. The way to handle the possibility of injury is by having another good shooter coming off the bench behind him. Bench strength, “next man up.” You wouldn’t expect bench players to be as good as the starters, just good enough to keep the team going. That’s how to handle injuries, which WILL happen.

Keldon Johnson - …

Could be replaced by almost any SF in the league who can score enough points. Keldon is a lousy complement to Wemby because he’s too self-centered. At least he seems, for now, to have stopped kissing himself. Might be alright coming off the bench, maybe. Maybe.

[Pauleta14]

I don't think Tre even as a back up PG has the level. He'd be a liability and pressured the 10-15min he'd play

Too small and no particular strength, neither shooting, defense or passing

I don't get it

Pls someone explain me what I'm missing wth him haha

[JeffDuncan]

My view of Tre is that he’s good enough so replacing him is a low priority, far down on the list of what the team needs. If an opportunity comes along for a better backup pg, grab it of course. Actively shopping for a backup pg, now, isn’t the way to improve the team, tho. A minor concern, for the future.

[Kawhi Duncan]

I don't think Tre even as a back up PG has the level. He'd be a liability and pressured the 10-15min he'd play

Too small and no particular strength, neither shooting, defense or passing

I don't get it

Pls someone explain me what I'm missing wth him haha

Tre consistently is one of the top PGs at assist/turnover ratio... He is a good passer

[TD 21]

Out of the extended core (starters + Jones and Branham), Vassell is the only long term keeper/complement to Wembanyama.

I expect them to pretend with Sochan and maybe Jones and Collins, but not Johnson and Branham.

They need virtually everything, all of which has been discussed ad nauseam.

Most of all, they need to re-think their entire ethos/draft philosophy and stop having such a narrow minded view of "character" and prioritizing that above ell else.

The team is filled with choir boys, who don't check any specific box either physically or skillset wise, which is why this team sucks at virtually everything and has no iden y.

[Raven]

tre jones is easily the worst of the bunch.

[Pauleta14]

Tre litteraly through lobs BELOW the rim ffs

Everybody can score on him bc he's too small

Liking Tre is a clear symptom of the losing mentality that has attached itself to this franchise.

He makes Beno Udrih look like Steph Curry

[scott]

I look forward to the day when our backup PG is what's holding us back. For now, Tre is the least of our concerns.

[paperboy77]

Kinda like what you said but for me this is how I see it plus Wemby. Also, Pop needs to be humbled somehow. Maybe ownership starts making some noise about him. Also, on the guys you are down on... those need to be treated like team fodder and totally cut-able. We can't develop everyone and don't need to. Either they fit or they don't get on the court. Pop gives them too much rope.

Jeremy Sochan - Top 6 Player only at Forward or Small ball Center

Devin Vassell - Top 6 player only if healthy.

Keldon Johnson - Bench player, 7 or 8th man. Trade bait if possible.

Zach Collins - Bench player. Package in a trade if possible.

Tre Jones - Top 6 player. At this point, the Starting PG. Until there's a replacement, he starts.

Malaki Branham - Deep bench, maybe backup 2 guard.

Cedi Osman - Definitely first man off the bench. Maybe the final starter at SF.

Julian Champagnie - Scrub. Should be in Austin or packaged out. Don't care about his confidence. Seen him come of the bench in trash minutes and doesn't hustle his ass off. Smells of Luka Samich.

Mamu - For me top 6 player. Pop must find a way to pair this guy with Wemby.

Charles Bassey - Third big off the bench or part of a trade package.

Doug McBuckets - Probably trade bait but only if unavoidable. Part of the rotation.

[Pauleta14]

scott ...

I disagree

He's as much a concern as Sochan at PG

Those are our 2 playmakers supposed to feed Victor and NONE is capable or doing so

Tre is even worse than Sochan who at least can impact defensively

[Tyronn Lue]

The moves before deadline will be interesting. Sure they suck balls, but how much of that is pure suckage vs teams figured out Victor at his age/experience level?

[CGD]

Lowe’s analysis about Keldon in the piece below is spot on. Hes simply lost out there after a year where he was “the man” and it’s costing the team doubly: lower output from the player himself, and lower production from the position generally. He really should be first off the bench, but Pop won’t do that.

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/sa...banyama-roster

It feels like if the right offer came the Spurs would move him this deadline, but the more interesting question is whether the Spurs would use Keldon and picks to proactively go get someone they like.

[Extra Stout]

Lowe’s analysis about Keldon in the piece below is spot on. Hes simply lost out there after a year where he was “the man” and it’s costing the team doubly: lower output from the player himself, and lower production from the position generally. He really should be first off the bench, but Pop won’t do that.

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/sa...banyama-roster

It feels like if the right offer came the Spurs would move him this deadline, but the more interesting question is whether the Spurs would use Keldon and picks to proactively go get someone they like.

Johnson could come off the bench. But a Sochan-Jones lineup is a huge liability on shooting. I think they would have to start Graham. Frankly, I don’t know why they don’t.

[scott]

scott ...

I disagree

He's as much a concern as Sochan at PG

Those are our 2 playmakers supposed to feed Victor and NONE is capable or doing so

Tre is even worse than Sochan who at least can impact defensively

I'm not saying Tre Jones is what we should build our franchise around, but if you think he is the problem I'm not sure what games you are watching.

Of all the two-man lineups that have played greater than 30 minutes together this season, only 5 have a positive net rating, and 4 of those have Tre Jones in them.

Lineup	GP	MIN	ORTG	DRTG	NETRTG
Vassell-Jones	7	99	123.6	102.3	21.4
Jones-Wembanyama	11	159	116.1	105.2	10.9
Jones-Sochan	11	69	116.4	110.3	6.2
Johnson-Champagnie	4	50	108.7	102.8	5.9
Collins-Jones	11	117	114.1	112.3	1.8

You say that Jones is worse that Sochan, but Sochan's best minutes by Net Rating come when he is sharing the court with Tre Jones, and he's a negative without Jones on the court.

[Pauleta14]

I'm not saying he's our main pb but he's definitely one that shouldn't be underrated like most of u seem to do (maybe by opposition from way worst cases)

Those stats are irrelevant bc the whole team sucks and Pop's linups are often weird (so limiting the data of 2/5 doesn't make sense, it depends a lot on the other 3 on the court too)

My point isn't to on Tre, i can see he can do stuff decently and at least gives it all etcbut BB is all about matchups and Tre iwill lose every type he'll face bc of his size and inability to score.

Giving 10M/season for THAT is surreal to me (good for him and his family tho)

[Pauleta14]

Tre is obviously better than Sochan offensively, but Sochan is A LOT better on defense

Sochan wins slightly overall, both suck as PG and both are handicaping Victor's development

[exstatic]

I'm not saying he's our main pb but he's definitely one that shouldn't be underrated like most of u seem to do (maybe by opposition from way worst cases)

Those stats are irrelevant bc the whole team sucks and Pop's linups are often weird (so limiting the data of 2/5 doesn't make sense, it depends a lot on the other 3 on the court too)

My point isn't to on Tre, i can see he can do stuff decently and at least gives it all etcbut BB is all about matchups and Tre iwill lose every type he'll face bc of his size and inability to score.

Giving 10M/season for THAT is surreal to me (good for him and his family tho)

$10M isn’t even the middle class exception, it’s literally nothing in NBA terms. It was also only for 2 years.

[boutons_deux]

Devin is useless if he can't. Stay healthy

Look how many games he missed last year and already this year

[mudd]

Halliburton would have been the best fit with Wemby. Wright got it wrong!

[DesignatedT]

Halliburton would have been the best fit with Wemby. Wright got it wrong!

They wouldn't have gotten Wemby if they had drafted Haliburton. He was good enough to prevent the tank.