I am a Sniffer. It is time to Fire Pop.

[Obstructed_View]

So whenever the lakers lose, even when it’s their own fault, would lead to an asterisk for another team? Like in 05 when the lakers couldn’t even make the playoffs and shaq was second in MVP voting with Miami and somehow the champs should get a title? I don’t really get it.
If you made sense of any of that, I'm impressed.

[ducks]

Biden needs your help pop
Get the fuck out of sa

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

13 straight losses for our 16 million dollar head coach.

[Dverde]

:lol I wish someone had the balls to ask Pop about this one. They don’t want to poke the bear tho.

https://x.com/mikefinger/status/1730432259734311087?s=20

[TimmyBuckets]

Can't wait for Becky to get the reins so the sonics can come back.

[Russo21]

13 straight losses for our 16 million dollar head coach.

Disgusting waste of money for a guy pushing 80 years old leading the team to the worst records in the NBA consecutive years. We should be looking for someone younger who could possibly be Wemby's career long coach he can learn and grow with. Greedy grandpa earning his 16 million a year but he can't take that shit to the grave. Fuck, he's actually earning more than what Duncan, Parker and Ginobili earned a lot of years in their careers. Such bullshit

[MultiTroll]

13 straight losses for our 16 million dollar head coach.
he's tied Bob Hill the guy he fired.

We know we know the players wanted Hill out.
Just sayin.

Will he do the right thing now and step down?
Hell no!

[ducks]

13 straight losses for our 16 million dollar head coach.

Is he the highest person on the spurs team

[Russo21]

:lol I wish someone had the balls to ask Pop about this one. They don’t want to poke the bear tho.

https://x.com/mikefinger/status/1730432259734311087?s=20

That would be hilarious �� And I'd love to hear his rebuttal. Although he'd just make some bullshit sarcastic comment like usual without answering the question

[tapiefan]

13 in a row and the old fuck is still here. What an embarassement for the franchise. Like the old senile uncle invited at each Christmas dinner.

[TekXX]

Poop sniffers would say nobody liked Bob Hill and that was the reason he was fired. Can someone remind me why he wasn't liked?

[LkrFan]

Gracias, Pepito

De nada :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Poop sniffers would say nobody liked Bob Hill and that was the reason he was fired. Can someone remind me why he wasn't liked?
I didn't live in SA at the time, so all the talk of how hated he was seems like retconning. From my standpoint, players were starting to come back from injury and Pop wanted to be head coach and also wanted Timmy so he pulled the plug on Hill and kept all the players on the injury list.

[Mikeanaro]

He should fire his own ass.

[KobesAchilles]

Hopefully the Holts grow a spine and fire this guy. I love Pop but if Landry was fired from the Cowboys, I don’t see why Pop can’t be fired

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I didn't live in SA at the time, so all the talk of how hated he was seems like retconning. From my standpoint, players were starting to come back from injury and Pop wanted to be head coach and also wanted Timmy so he pulled the plug on Hill and kept all the players on the injury list.

Yep that covers it.

Pop has always been a prick, only now he's a prick who owns the worst start in Spurs history.

[Tyronn Lue]

It has nothing to do with winning. It ultimately has nothing to do with competitiveness either. People want to know that Pop is providing coaching to get them to competitiveness. There are 0 signs that he is doing so.
Even more than this, Pop is obviously not the future of this team, so what's the long game here?

[Tyronn Lue]

Hopefully the Holts grow a spine and fire this guy. I love Pop but if Landry was fired from the Cowboys, I don’t see why Pop can’t be fired
They won't fire him. He'll step down for health reasons, might remain in the FO for optics before he's asked to cease and desist. Not sure how you deliver that message to him though, plus the contract he signed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They won't fire him. He'll step down for health reasons, might remain in the FO for optics before he's asked to cease and desist. Not sure how you deliver that message to him though, plus the contract he signed.

If you're signing the checks, it's easy.

Step down due to health, or we found something related to the morality clause in your deal that says we get to fire you and not pay you.

Not sure the Holts have it in them, but think the Dells might.

[Russo21]

Even more than this, Pop is obviously not the future of this team, so what's the long game here?

Exactly what I've been saying. Unless he coaches until he's freaking in his 90 he's not the future. We should be looking for Wemby's career coach he can learn and grow with. Pop is not that guy.

[z0sa]

Even more than this, Pop is obviously not the future of this team, so what's the long game here?

The only "game" that makes any sense for Pop is winning a ring again in the next 5 years. COTY might be up there for him too though he'd never admit it so we can never know for sure outside the org.

Which is why it's very strange he's treating this season like it's the beginning of a major tank fest for years to come.

[Trainwreck2100]

Poop sniffers would say nobody liked Bob Hill and that was the reason he was fired. Can someone remind me why he wasn't liked?

Ask the team at the time

[Obstructed_View]

Even more than this, Pop is obviously not the future of this team, so what's the long game here?
It was so perfect. Ime got out of his contract. Pop could have handed off the team, maybe been lead assistant for a couple of years, with a young roster and an otherworldly rookie. Oh well.

[Obstructed_View]

The only "game" that makes any sense for Pop is winning a ring again in the next 5 years. COTY might be up there for him too though he'd never admit it so we can never know for sure outside the org.

Which is why it's very strange he's treating this season like it's the beginning of a major tank fest for years to come.
I'm impressed that you think he's doing this on purpose. If so, it's an awfully big risk to take with your young superstar.

[spurs10]

If it appears to you that Pop is in a 'win now' mode, I'd ask why he's made no attempts to surround Wemby with a better team. Maybe some veteran players who have some experience in closing games, ball-handling, etc. He knows they aren't a play-off team.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think he has any idea what the hell he's doing. It's not like they're working on anything or developing. They are certainly starting to play a bit more consistently, and Victor is figuring out how to get the ball in his spots. No coaching required for that.

[spurs10]

I don't think he has any idea what the hell he's doing. It's not like they're working on anything or developing. They are certainly starting to play a bit more consistently, and Victor is figuring out how to get the ball in his spots. No coaching required for that.
I don't know what is going on at practice and if he's has a game plan. I have noticed Wemby doesn't sound dismayed or unhappy in interviews, though this is probably a measure of his maturity and professional attitude. My feelings are, Pop and the coaches notwithstanding, this team is not good enough to do much better than their historic losing streak.....they are getting better.

I am excited to see Collins in the All Star 3 Point contest! Ugh!

[z0sa]

I'm impressed that you think he's doing this on purpose. If so, it's an awfully big risk to take with your young superstar.

Trying to give Pop the benefit of the doubt and hope it's a CIA moment. It's doubtful he planned on such a bad showing thus far, though, I agree - even if he did intend on tanking another season.

[exstatic]

Trying to give Pop the benefit of the doubt and hope it's a CIA moment. It's doubtful he planned on such a bad showing thus far, though, I agree - even if he did intend on tanking another season.

The thing about tanking is, if you do it wrong, it’s very possible to win games you don’t want to win. I don’t think he wanted those blowouts, because that’s bad for morale, so he does things in close games like using all of his timeouts so that he can’t challenge. The fine line that you have to walk is to lose a LOT of games, but not get blown out too often.

[itzsoweezee]

If it appears to you that Pop is in a 'win now' mode, I'd ask why he's made no attempts to surround Wemby with a better team. Maybe some veteran players who have some experience in closing games, ball-handling, etc. He knows they aren't a play-off team.

Is the plan to lose every game this season? That’s some plan.

[Obstructed_View]

Trying to give Pop the benefit of the doubt and hope it's a CIA moment. It's doubtful he planned on such a bad showing thus far, though, I agree - even if he did intend on tanking another season.
CIA was always a cover by the sniffers to explain the retarded shit he has always done. When he benches all his starters before a national game against a conference power, when he benches his centers in the playoffs, when he lets great players rot on the bench until they are facing elimination, when he refuses to foul when up by three, when he subs out a player who just hit four shots in a row...

[exstatic]

CIA was always a cover by the sniffers to explain the retarded shit he has always done. When he benches all his starters before a national game against a conference power, when he benches his centers in the playoffs, when he lets great players rot on the bench until they are facing elimination, when he refuses to foul when up by three, when he subs out a player who just hit four shots in a row...

Have you ever studied game theory? In a zero sum game, where one party wins and the other party loses, the BEST strategy is to avoid the worst possible outcome for yourself. The worst possible outcome is to foul a 3 point shooter in the act, and he makes the shot and the FT. Pop doesn’t not foul because of some personal preference or bias, he does it because it’s good sound strategy. In the long run, it’s the best strategy. Chess.

[Obstructed_View]

Have you ever studied game theory? In a zero sum game, where one party wins and the other party loses, the BEST strategy is to avoid the worst possible outcome for yourself. The worst possible outcome is to foul a 3 point shooter in the act, and he makes the shot and the FT. Pop doesn’t not foul because of some personal preference or bias, he does it because it’s good sound strategy. In the long run, it’s the best strategy. Chess.
Okay. Let's use your game theory logic, since you've studied it:

You're up three with 30 seconds to go against a team that has several good three point shooters. They have the ball.

Three and a foul is a fluke play, statistically unlikely, but I'll give it to you.

The worst possible outcome is to give up a three and a foul. The next worst outcome is to give up a three. You avoid both of those by fouling the dribbler when he catches the inbound pass before he shoots. Barring flukes, worst case is they hit two free throws and you get the ball back up one with the shot clock off.

When you play defense, you take NONE of the outcomes away, good or bad. Pop plays defense in that scenario 100 percent of the time, whether the other team has good shooters or not, whether at home or in the road, whether the other team got the rebound or is coming from a time out.

Game theory says Pop is playing Candyland, not chess.

[exstatic]

Okay. Let's use your game theory logic, since you've studied it:

You're up three with 30 seconds to go against a team that has several good three point shooters. They have the ball.

Three and a foul is a fluke play, statistically unlikely, but I'll give it to you.

The worst possible outcome is to give up a three and a foul. The next worst outcome is to give up a three. You avoid both of those by fouling the dribbler when he catches the inbound pass before he shoots. Barring flukes, worst case is they hit two free throws and you get the ball back up one with the shot clock off.

When you play defense, you take NONE of the outcomes away, good or bad. Pop plays defense in that scenario 100 percent of the time, whether the other team has good shooters or not, whether at home or in the road, whether the other team got the rebound or is coming from a time out.

Game theory says Pop is playing Candyland, not chess.

If you play defense, you win 60% of the time with a ‘good’ shooter, 65% with an average shooter. You’re also omitting fouling him, and he misses,but you put him on the line to tie.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not fouling while up 3 can be justified. Benching Tim Duncan while playing Tony Parker when you need a stop is absolutely idiotic

[Russo21]

Not fouling while up 3 can be justified. Benching Tim Duncan while playing Tony Parker when you need a stop is absolutely idiotic

Or a rebound ��the old fart really fucked that up. Yep let's bench one of the best defenders and rebounders in history on an important finals defensive possession where you desperately need a stop and or a rebound, makes sense. Unforgivable. Idiots forgive because we won the next year but we'd be 5-0 or 6-0 if it weren't for him, either sounds better than 5-1. He's been a fool for many a year. So overrated. Now sniffers and PopTards underrate Duncan just because he was coached by Pop, ffs �� Pop is so overrated. His record in non Duncan years is well well below .500

[MultiTroll]

Idiots forgive because we won the next year but we'd be 5-0 or 6-0 if it weren't for him, either sounds better than 5-1.
Not that we want or need moron mainstream media approval, but it would have completely put Duncan in the conversation of Jordan or Duncan, who was better.
Also would have somewhat shut the mouths of delusional casual Kombe Phan. Now we hear the "they both had 5" nonsense, as if Duncan wasn't >>>>> then coatailer + foodstamps Kirby.

[dbestpro]

What I really would like to know is what are they trying to do on defense? I don’t see any plan. When we had the twin towers we would crowd the shooters to make them drive into the shot blockers. Now they look like slow cats chasing a mouse.

[K...]

Its a beautiful day, and yall Mfs are crying about 6? Lmao

[Obstructed_View]

If you play defense, you win 60% of the time with a ‘good’ shooter, 65% with an average shooter. You’re also omitting fouling him, and he misses,but you put him on the line to tie.
You just said good strategy is eliminating the worst outcome. Fouling does that 100 percent of the time.

100 > 65

Fouling a shooter is not part of the strategy. Stop trying to pretend it is.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I wish the media guys would at least question what is going on.

[baseline bum]

Poop sniffers would say nobody liked Bob Hill and that was the reason he was fired. Can someone remind me why he wasn't liked?

Probably from the pissing match he got in with Rodman that cost the Spurs hugely in the 95 WCF. Both David and AJ wanted Hill out which is why they want to bat so hard for Pop before that Houston game in 1999 when he was about to get fired and replaced by Coc Rivers.

[baseline bum]

I didn't live in SA at the time, so all the talk of how hated he was seems like retconning. From my standpoint, players were starting to come back from injury and Pop wanted to be head coach and also wanted Timmy so he pulled the plug on Hill and kept all the players on the injury list.

Yes Pop told David to break his foot

[The Truth #6]

Or a rebound ��the old fart really fucked that up. Yep let's bench one of the best defenders and rebounders in history on an important finals defensive possession where you desperately need a stop and or a rebound, makes sense. Unforgivable. Idiots forgive because we won the next year but we'd be 5-0 or 6-0 if it weren't for him, either sounds better than 5-1. He's been a fool for many a year. So overrated. Now sniffers and PopTards underrate Duncan just because he was coached by Pop, ffs �� Pop is so overrated. His record in non Duncan years is well well below .500

Not to get into the Sniffer Debate, but for the rebound play, to me, the concern was that Tim was so slow at that point (relatively) that he would be a liability having to run out to the perimeter to defend a shooter on the 3 point line. In retrospect, he should have left him in. But if Tim was in the game and he failed to contest a wide open 3, then Pop would have been hated by the haters also. My issues with Pop is not one play but infatuations with certain players over an extended time. He fell in love with Finley excessively who only stabbed us in the back in the end. He's in love with Sochan right now, which has been a failure so far, but at this point I think they might as well continue.

Anyway. Just some ramblings.

[Obstructed_View]

Yes Pop told David to break his foot
Yeah that's the only thing that happened that season.

[baseline bum]

Yeah that's the only thing that happened that season.

So you wanted him to rush David back from a broken foot like Portland did Walton?

[Obstructed_View]

So you wanted him to rush David back from a broken foot like Portland did Walton?
lol nobody said that, did they? Again, Robinson was not the one and only thing that happened that year.

We know from the intervening 27 years that he would NEVER EVER fudge an injury report or intentionally lose games to get a high draft pick. But Bob Hill was cast after the fact as unlikeable because he was going to fight to keep his job even if it meant getting Adonal Foyle.

[baseline bum]

lol nobody said that, did they? Again, Robinson was not the one and only thing that happened that year.

We know from the intervening 27 years that he would NEVER EVER fudge an injury report or intentionally lose games to get a high draft pick. But Bob Hill was cast after the fact as unlikeable because he was going to fight to keep his job even if it meant getting Adonal Foyle.

So why not make up some shit and end Dominique's season?

[exstatic]

The reason the players wanted him gone was that every win was due to him, and every loss was on the players, sometimes named specifically in the press. He constantly threw them under the bus.

[Obstructed_View]

So why not make up some shit and end Dominique's season?

Lol you're ridiculous.

[baseline bum]

Lol you're ridiculous.

LOL the guy who thinks a one man team should still be winning games when that one man has a broken foot calling anyone ridiculous. Just come out and say fuck Pop because he doesn't like Trump. Everyone knows that's what you mean.

[z0sa]

The thing about tanking is, if you do it wrong, it’s very possible to win games you don’t want to win. I don’t think he wanted those blowouts, because that’s bad for morale, so he does things in close games like using all of his timeouts so that he can’t challenge. The fine line that you have to walk is to lose a LOT of games, but not get blown out too often.

It's dangerous to look incompetent, from a job-security standpoint. Especially at his age, but ever, really. So I have difficulty believing he's purposely making such a big mistake.

Then again, if he truly has zero chance of being fired because ownership has assured him as much, then yeah, I could see your point. But that's really a bit of a stretch - nobody's untouchable in entertainment.

[z0sa]

CIA was always a cover by the sniffers to explain the retarded shit he has always done. When he benches all his starters before a national game against a conference power, when he benches his centers in the playoffs, when he lets great players rot on the bench until they are facing elimination, when he refuses to foul when up by three, when he subs out a player who just hit four shots in a row...

His subbing is confusing a fuck ton of the time, but I think some of it is because he wants players to always be ready and trust in The System. It's a bit cult-y.

[Obstructed_View]

His subbing is confusing a fuck ton of the time, but I think some of it is because he wants players to always be ready and trust in The System. It's a bit cult-y.
It's the summit of hubris that the stupid decisions he made that Tim Duncan's talent was able to overcome are part of a "system" that he thinks was successful because of himself.

[z0sa]

It's the summit of hubris that the stupid decisions he made that Tim Duncan's talent was able to overcome are part of a "system" that he thinks was successful because of himself.

I would have chuckled at this before the current season - specifically the mic incident. Now, I honestly don't know. I think the System was great for the Spurs team in 2014. The 2023-24 Spurs are not the same team in any way, shape or form and so even though we're using it, I'm not certain it's actually doing anyone any favors anymore.

[exstatic]

It's dangerous to look incompetent, from a job-security standpoint. Especially at his age, but ever, really. So I have difficulty believing he's purposely making such a big mistake.

Then again, if he truly has zero chance of being fired because ownership has assured him as much, then yeah, I could see your point. But that's really a bit of a stretch - nobody's untouchable in entertainment.

:lol Pop has complete job security.

[CapitalEmm]

I’m starting to wonder if “the system” happened despite Pop, with him probably actively fighting against it insisting on the team continuing to run “4 down.”

[Obstructed_View]

I would have chuckled at this before the current season - specifically the mic incident. Now, I honestly don't know. I think the System was great for the Spurs team in 2014. The 2023-24 Spurs are not the same team in any way, shape or form and so even though we're using it, I'm not certain it's actually doing anyone any favors anymore.
I'm with you. I honestly thought Pop was tanking last year and would suddenly have this team rolling. It's increasingly clear to me that the 2013 team was Tim, Tony and Manu, who could run the 2-man game to perfection and could run a three-man PnR at an elite level adding Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw and an army of smart, veteran role players who knew how to pass. Those were guys that you could tell to move the ball for better shots and they would nod and do it. The 2014 team was the same group angry that Pop pulled his all-world defender for the last possession of a championship close-out game.

[Obstructed_View]

I’m starting to wonder if “the system” happened despite Pop, with him probably actively fighting against it insisting on the team continuing to run “4 down.”
That and his smallball fixation. He damn sure didn't love the pick and roll because he kept Splitter out of the rotation for two years. :lol

[z0sa]

:lol Pop has complete job security.

source?

[PhantomDashCam]

Rogue Bogues indeed…

https://x.com/andrewbogut/status/1732357924922827015?s=20

[exstatic]

source?

Really? You think they’ll fire the All Time winningest coach, like ever? Pop will leave on his terms, and in his own time.

[Brazil]

:lol yeah Spurs played the beautiful game despite Pop coaching :lol

[z0sa]

Really? You think they’ll fire the All Time winningest coach, like ever? Pop will leave on his terms, and in his own time.

Why does this thread exist, then? You act like it's insane to discuss it now in a 7 page (at 50 replies each, no less) thread and growing.

Hence the source ask. If you have a source to shut down this talk, feel free to share. Otherwise, laughing it off is just laziness on your behalf.

[z0sa]

FWIW, I feel immense sadness at the thought of Pop leaving - and him being fired seems unimaginable. But it's not 100% certain it'll never happen if we lose a lot. That's more obvious to me than assuming based upon 5 rings f*ggot that Pop is untouchable as we welcome the next LeBron into the team/League.

[MultiTroll]

Pop will leave on his terms, and in his own time.
He certainly will.

Official Losingest Coach watch Thread (spurstalk.com) (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298706&highlight=losingest)

[Pauleta14]

:lol yeah Spurs played the beautiful game despite Pop coaching :lol

the beautiful game existed thx to Boris Diaw

[exstatic]

Why does this thread exist, then? You act like it's insane to discuss it now in a 7 page (at 50 replies each, no less) thread and growing.

Hence the source ask. If you have a source to shut down this talk, feel free to share. Otherwise, laughing it off is just laziness on your behalf.

You've been here how long, and don't know there's a huge cadre of Pop haters? Jerkoffs on a message board have zero relevance to Pop's continuation coaching.

[z0sa]

You've been here how long, and don't know there's a huge cadre of Pop haters? Jerkoffs on a message board have zero relevance to Pop's continuation coaching.

Suddenly Scott is a pp hater? and you're moving the goalposts. you say Pop has complete job security. Is that a fact? nope. No one who has lost 14 games straight in a professional sports league has ever been untouchable. so come off the :lol your opinion is wrong stuff, friend. all im sayin

[scott]

Why does this thread exist, then? You act like it's insane to discuss it now in a 7 page (at 50 replies each, no less) thread and growing.

Hence the source ask. If you have a source to shut down this talk, feel free to share. Otherwise, laughing it off is just laziness on your behalf.

To be fair, the thread only exists because I'm tired of watching us traverse the seas of time like a ship without a rudder. I'd probably agree that the Spurs won't fire Pop, even if they should.

lol at being called a Pop hater though.

[Brazil]

the beautiful game existed thx to Boris Diaw

true but also manu, tp, tim, kawhi, Tiago... and the coach

Who in his right mind would believe Spurs played that kind of bb against the coach will ? in particular when the said coach is Pop :lol

[exstatic]

To be fair, the thread only exists because I'm tired of watching us traverse the seas of time like a ship without a rudder. I'd probably agree that the Spurs won't fire Pop, even if they should.

lol at being called a Pop hater though.

tbh, I never even looked to see who started this thread, and would not call you a Pop hater, scott, but there are a ton of them, and they are the ones running up the post count here, which is something mentioned in the z0sa post I quoted.

[spurs10]

Winningest Coach In All Team Sports for 20 years. That's a pretty good sign of success. People trying to separate the success of Pop, David, Tim, Manu, and Tony is ridiculous. It's a team. Tim alone, or Pop alone are not responsible for that kind success.

[Pauleta14]

true but also manu, tp, tim, kawhi, Tiago... and the coach

Who in his right mind would believe Spurs played that kind of bb against the coach will ? in particular when the said coach is Pop :lol

well all the players that played were part of it of course,
but none were more important and impactful than Boris imo. He was a very unique player whose unselfishness and love of the beautiful game (from his education in Pau/France) allowed what happened. He was contagious more than any other player
to this day he still absurdly underrated.

His main weakness was his lack of selfishness that could have made him a super star.

[Seventyniner]

"Pop used to be really good but now he sucks" really isn't that hot of a take.

[KobesAchilles]

I love Pop. He’s great all time coach. The 4th best ever. He’s won so many games for us and done more for us as a city than any coach possibly could. The success he had in a small market will never be matched and is unparalleled. When I think coaching excellence, basketball excellence, and overall human being excellence, I think of Pop more so than anybody in the history of the league. Him sucking as a coach pains me on an emotional level bc of all the battles this man has led us through.

But every coach gets old. Every general retires. Every person reaches the time when it’s time to move on from him. Will he be fired? I hope not. I hope he steps down gracefully. But he can’t be our coach any longer. He can be a consultant. He can be our president of operations. He can be at the facility every single day as a special liaison of some sort. But just not our coach. No bashing or hating from me. It’s just time to move on.

[ducks]

"Pop used to be really good but now he sucks" really isn't that hot of a take.

Many coaches of the year get fired
Even coaches who win a title 2-4 years later they get their asses fired

[Joseph Kony]

bump

[Leetonidas]

The old man needs to go

[Robz4000]

He's here until he dies, and prolly for a good while after.

[CorrectCrusader]

He's here until he dies, and prolly for a good while after.
:pop: I will never get over myself :pop:

[Barfunk]

Still going with 1.Manu and 1b.Becky, but even Brent Barry as coach would be an improvement over Pop right now.

[Mugen]

It's going to be an amazing day when the old man is finally gone. Like a bunch of concentration camps getting liberated tbh.

[z0sa]

I'm almost on the bandwagon. One more loss, and I will be. You can't have the exact same collapse in the 3rd quarter over and fucking over for a franchise record 17 games straight and not fire the coach. It's that simple. History and contributions to the city be damned.

I'm nobody except a fan, and you've got one last chance, old man. Please make it happen.

[BatManu20]

This is nuts. And frankly unacceptable tbh.


Spurs largest leads this season with Wins (green) and Losses (red).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA4Txt5W4AAOLjb?format=png&name=large

[BatManu20]

Spurs are now 1-9 when leading by 10 points in a game this season btw.

[Mugen]

I'm almost on the bandwagon. One more loss, and I will be. You can't have the exact same collapse in the 3rd quarter over and fucking over for a franchise record 17 games straight and not fire the coach. It's that simple. History and contributions to the city be damned.

I'm nobody except a fan, and you've got one last chance, old man. Please make it happen.

Brother, if you weren't on the bandwagon when he started Bryn Forbes for b2b seasons and when he literally refused to play Dejounte and DWhite together, I don't know what to say. Pop's been absolute shit for a long time now...to the point where I'm not even sure if its on him anymore. He seems legitimately senile that somebody should have taken the keys a long time ago.

[rascal]

I love Pop. He’s great all time coach. The 4th best ever. He’s won so many games for us and done more for us as a city than any coach possibly could. The success he had in a small market will never be matched and is unparalleled. When I think coaching excellence, basketball excellence, and overall human being excellence, I think of Pop more so than anybody in the history of the league. Him sucking as a coach pains me on an emotional level bc of all the battles this man has led us through.

But every coach gets old. Every general retires. Every person reaches the time when it’s time to move on from him. Will he be fired? I hope not. I hope he steps down gracefully. But he can’t be our coach any longer. He can be a consultant. He can be our president of operations. He can be at the facility every single day as a special liaison of some sort. But just not our coach. No bashing or hating from me. It’s just time to move on.

Pop is going to the Hall of Fame. The Spurs are never going to fire him.

They will ask him to step down and resign instead of firing him but if he doesn't resign the spurs still won't fire him.

[ducks]

Spurs are now 1-9 when leading by 10 points in a game this season btw.

Terrible coaches

[z0sa]

Brother, if you weren't on the bandwagon when he started Bryn Forbes for b2b seasons and when he literally refused to play Dejounte and DWhite together, I don't know what to say. Pop's been absolute shit for a long time now...to the point where I'm not even sure if its on him anymore. He seems legitimately senile that somebody should have taken the keys a long time ago.

I'm a total Spurs homer, always have been. I always "believe", always trust Pop though I've criticized him plenty. Everyone makes mistakes - you learn, you grow, even as an old head.

And I truly thought Pop would bring his ultimate A game for this last bit of his life/career.

He's failed everyone, especially Wemby, thus far. It's pathetic how he's misused and underutilized players in proper positions over and over.

Also, unrelated to Mugen, but people defending this as a 'ghost tank', fuck you, straight up.

[Mugen]

I'm a total Spurs homer, always have been. I always "believe", always trust Pop though I've criticized him plenty. Everyone makes mistakes - you learn, you grow, even as an old head.

And I truly thought Pop would bring his ultimate A game for this last bit of his life/career.

He's failed everyone, especially Wemby, thus far. It's pathetic how he's misused and underutilized players in proper positions over and over.

Also, unrelated to Mugen, but people defending this as a 'ghost tank', fuck you, straight up.

The problem is when people think the Spurs = Pop. It was never that. Pop was made by Duncan.

He's always been a mediocre coach that's devolved into flat out shit the last decade.

This franchise will never ever be relevant again until the old man is within 50 feet.

If you're a Spurs homer then you'd want him in a retirement home yesterday.

[z0sa]

The problem is when people think the Spurs = Pop. It was never that. Pop was made by Duncan.

He's always been a mediocre coach that's devolved into flat out shit the last decade.

This franchise will never ever be relevant again until the old man is within 50 feet.

If you're a Spurs homer then you'd want him in a retirement home yesterday.

I'm nostalgic bro. Pop did such great things. I remember 2003 still like it was yesterday, and even stretches of 99 though i was pretty young. It's so hard to want to just kick his ass to the curb, but I'm almost there. Almost

[Mugen]

I'm nostalgic bro. Pop did such great things. I remember 2003 still like it was yesterday, and even stretches of 99 though i was pretty young. It's so hard to want to just kick his ass to the curb, but I'm almost there. Almost

Don't worry, dawg. I got a feeling Pop's just getting started this season :lol

[SupremeGuy]

Pop needs to retire and we need to fucking convince Manu to coach tbh.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pop just fuck off buddy

[Ditty]

Wemby will have so much organizational power in two-three years as a player. If Pop isn't the coach he believes he can lead him to success then he will push him to retirement or just only the president of the team. The Spurs know by then that they need to start showing a lot of promise by that time if they want to build an arena in downtown SA with tax increases.

[Mugen]

Wemby will have so much organizational power in two-three years as a player. If Pop isn't the coach he believes he can lead him to success then he will push him to retirement or just only the president of the team. The Spurs know by then that they need to start showing a lot of promise by that time if they want to build an arena in downtown SA with tax increases.

If the Spurs are not significantly better by the end of next season, I guarantee you they won't have to worry about who Wemby wants as coach down the road :lol

[Russo21]

I'm nostalgic bro. Pop did such great things. I remember 2003 still like it was yesterday, and even stretches of 99 though i was pretty young. It's so hard to want to just kick his ass to the curb, but I'm almost there. Almost

1999 and 2003 Pops plan was 4 down. You hear him in the huddle and he says 'give the ball to Tim and we'll see what they do'. That's not a great coach. A pre school kid could have known to tell the team to do that.

[Obstructed_View]

Too bad San Antonio doesn't have any ice floes.

[Obstructed_View]

1999 and 2003 Pops plan was 4 down. You hear him in the huddle and he says 'give the ball to Tim and we'll see what they do'. That's not a great coach. A pre school kid could have known to tell the team to do that.
It was a ripoff of Rudy Tomjianovich.

[z0sa]

1999 and 2003 Pops plan was 4 down. You hear him in the huddle and he says 'give the ball to Tim and we'll see what they do'. That's not a great coach. A pre school kid could have known to tell the team to do that.

True — which is why I dont understand why he doesnt do the same shit with wemby

[RC_Drunkford]

I'd even be happy with Jim Boylen at this point. At least he had to sub in the 3rd stringers at the end of the 4th to make sure they lose. Pop is getting blown out with the starters

[baseline bum]

True — which is why I dont understand why he doesnt do the same shit with wemby

Victor is pretty trash in the low post. Can't hold position and gets pushed easily into fadeaways.

[baseline bum]

1999 and 2003 Pops plan was 4 down. You hear him in the huddle and he says 'give the ball to Tim and we'll see what they do'. That's not a great coach. A pre school kid could have known to tell the team to do that.

I have never thought Pop was a very good ingame coach, but in the past he has been excellent with player development. Guys like Malik Rose, Stephen Jackson, and Danny Green had their careers resurrected off the trash heap by Pop. Seems nonexistent right now though. Most frustrating thing is seeing Sochan not being molded into a good defender when he has the physical tools to be one.

[tapiefan]

One more, and grand pa is still the MC of the franchise, giving lessons to everyone. Terrible organization TBH. Pop is puting a legacy of shit on the Spurs for how is performing with the best prospect of the decade.

For sure our French diamond will not waste another year with this senile "coach".

[offset formation]

Victor is pretty trash in the low post. Can't hold position and gets pushed easily into fadeaways.

Simple understanding of defensive leverage at play. His COG is simply too high. His only advantage is his length if he can get one step, he wins. If not, and they can square him up, he's next to useless in the post.

[The Truth #6]

I have never thought Pop was a very good ingame coach, but in the past he has been excellent with player development. Guys like Malik Rose, Stephen Jackson, and Danny Green had their careers resurrected off the trash heap by Pop. Seems nonexistent right now though. Most frustrating thing is seeing Sochan not being molded into a good defender when he has the physical tools to be one.

I agree with that. He thinks in long time frames. He was great at drawing up plays for specific moments but as for in game adjustments, not so much. Probably where Bud learned from.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I love Pop. He’s great all time coach. The 4th best ever. He’s won so many games for us and done more for us as a city than any coach possibly could. The success he had in a small market will never be matched and is unparalleled. When I think coaching excellence, basketball excellence, and overall human being excellence, I think of Pop more so than anybody in the history of the league. Him sucking as a coach pains me on an emotional level bc of all the battles this man has led us through.

But every coach gets old. Every general retires. Every person reaches the time when it’s time to move on from him. Will he be fired? I hope not. I hope he steps down gracefully. But he can’t be our coach any longer. He can be a consultant. He can be our president of operations. He can be at the facility every single day as a special liaison of some sort. But just not our coach. No bashing or hating from me. It’s just time to move on.


No one's expecting Holt Cat to come out and call a PC and say Pop has been relieved of duties.

What we want is for the Spurs to call a PC and Pop to announce he's retiring (health issues would be a good catch all reason).

[z0sa]

Victor is pretty trash in the low post. Can't hold position and gets pushed easily into fadeaways.

I agree, it doesn’t have to be 4down. More like 4 mid or whatever spot Wemby is comfortable in. An iso in his preferred spot.

He cant carry as one of the options. He has to be THE option. Running a bunch of isos creates that mentality. At the beginning of the season Id say in response to this but what if we start losing a bunch. That would destroy Wemby's confidence. But what's stopping us now

[The Truth #6]

Pop's season plan looks to be bold and decisive so far. Definitely not taking the easy path and knowing that other coaches may balk at coming into a team so devoid of star talent after Wemby. So, he went all in on Jeremy as point guard to develop possible star talent while simultaneously letting Victor on his own discover his short comings and areas for improvement, fully cognizant of his tendencies to alienate star players by being too controlling, formerly known as coaching. If Jeremy pops, then great. If not, the team is perfectly set up for a top 5 pick while Jeremy takes his new experience back to his forward position.

It's Pop's own exit strategy. Like a soldier, he's falling on his sword with these bold moves a rookie coach wouldn't have the balls or organizational support to try. And as he's said before, he's trying to set the team up for whoever takes over next. Haters have wanted tanking and bold moves to push this team towards success. And he is delivering. It's his most humble coaching year ever.

(*Leaves quietly and grabs popcorn*)

[gambit1990]

it’s so weird, it’s almost like pop wants to humble wemby with all these Ls. like he didn’t want the hype / success vs the suns to get to his head.

[ginobilized]

Pop's season plan looks to be bold and decisive so far. Definitely not taking the easy path and knowing that other coaches may balk at coming into a team so devoid of star talent after Wemby. So, he went all in on Jeremy as point guard to develop possible star talent while simultaneously letting Victor on his own discover his short comings and areas for improvement, fully cognizant of his tendencies to alienate star players by being too controlling, formerly known as coaching. If Jeremy pops, then great. If not, the team is perfectly set up for a top 5 pick while Jeremy takes his new experience back to his forward position.

It's Pop's own exit strategy. Like a soldier, he's falling on his sword with these bold moves a rookie coach wouldn't have the balls or organizational support to try. And as he's said before, he's trying to set the team up for whoever takes over next. Haters have wanted tanking and bold moves to push this team towards success. And he is delivering. It's his most humble coaching year ever.

(*Leaves quietly and grabs popcorn*)

I have had very similar thoughts this season. Pop has been given so much by the Spurs that it makes sense that it's his turn take his lumps. A rebuild is never pretty or easy. Pop is doing the dirty work for the Spurs and saving a coach from this unwinable situation.
I do think Pop can be a great teacher and that is sorely needed with this squad. It's becoming clearer that we are on a long trajectory. Hence, Brett Brown's hiring.

[Leetonidas]

Pop's season plan looks to be bold and decisive so far. Definitely not taking the easy path and knowing that other coaches may balk at coming into a team so devoid of star talent after Wemby. So, he went all in on Jeremy as point guard to develop possible star talent while simultaneously letting Victor on his own discover his short comings and areas for improvement, fully cognizant of his tendencies to alienate star players by being too controlling, formerly known as coaching. If Jeremy pops, then great. If not, the team is perfectly set up for a top 5 pick while Jeremy takes his new experience back to his forward position.

It's Pop's own exit strategy. Like a soldier, he's falling on his sword with these bold moves a rookie coach wouldn't have the balls or organizational support to try. And as he's said before, he's trying to set the team up for whoever takes over next. Haters have wanted tanking and bold moves to push this team towards success. And he is delivering. It's his most humble coaching year ever.

(*Leaves quietly and grabs popcorn*)

What in the sniff is this? :lol

[offset formation]

What in the sniff is this? :lol

Some people just like to watch the world burn.

Note the starred message at the end.

[Mugen]

Damn, we eating good this season. 17 straight baby!

https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/happy-dance-icegif-3.gif

[Kawhi_6rings]

I hate being aligned in any way with fucking ducks, but here we are.

It's been a great run, ol' buddy, but it's time for you to go live on a nice farm where you can run and enjoy the sun.
NO ONE CAN FIRE POP IN THE WORLD

[spurs1990]

Congrats to coach Greg the Pop popovich for a record breaker tonight.

Still in the hunt for the Iowa sharpshooter

1734417975862509824

[gambit1990]

if pop announced his coaching retirement tomorrow, would his contract just be void? or the spurs would work out something akin to a buyout?



if he got fired then he'd still be owed all his money, right?

[BatManu20]

The fact that the old man is getting paid an NBA record $16M/year for this is shit-show actually hilarious tbh :lol

[MultiTroll]

NO ONE CAN FIRE POP IN THE WORLD
Timmy Duncan is the only person the clueless Holt Jrs would listen to.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Pop's season plan looks to be bold and decisive so far. Definitely not taking the easy path and knowing that other coaches may balk at coming into a team so devoid of star talent after Wemby. So, he went all in on Jeremy as point guard to develop possible star talent while simultaneously letting Victor on his own discover his short comings and areas for improvement, fully cognizant of his tendencies to alienate star players by being too controlling, formerly known as coaching. If Jeremy pops, then great. If not, the team is perfectly set up for a top 5 pick while Jeremy takes his new experience back to his forward position.

It's Pop's own exit strategy. Like a soldier, he's falling on his sword with these bold moves a rookie coach wouldn't have the balls or organizational support to try. And as he's said before, he's trying to set the team up for whoever takes over next. Haters have wanted tanking and bold moves to push this team towards success. And he is delivering. It's his most humble coaching year ever.

(*Leaves quietly and grabs popcorn*)

Well, now I just feel awful about everything I said about Pop’s coaching so far this season! :lol

[AusSpur]

The fact that the old man is getting paid an NBA record $16M/year for this is shit-show actually hilarious tbh :lol

And isn't Monty in Detroit the second highest paid coach :lol

[ambchang]

This is getting ridiculous. It makes no sense for the spurs to tank this year. Last year was obvious and the fan base could endure it because there was hope and the young players were actually developing. Sochan was improving at a tremendous rate last year with a defined role and a limited number of things to focus on. This year he has regressed dramatically because there are no directions at all in what he should do.

If the spurs are tanking this year this means that there is no one on the roster PATFO thinks is a worthy second banana to wemby, which is sobering. Vassell and sochan, with the right directions and growth plans can be key cogs on a contender but Vassell looks like nick young reincarnate and sochan barely looks like an nba player.

I do not buy that the spurs are tanking on purpose and I do not buy that the players are this bad. This is all poor coaching.

[ducks]

Pop should tell Trump he be in his cabinet

[ducks]

Wemby needs to tell David Robinson
Tell pop to retire
No one has the balls David Robinson does

[The Truth #6]

It's fascinating. Pop's coaching career will be bookended by absolute failure, with years of abyss at Pomona to now these last two years, and yet in between, total greatness. I said it before the season started, there are too many contradictory statements and goals for this season to be actually about winning, and I debated the late Mr. Body on this precise topic. The FO wanted to see what they have. Well it only took 20 games to find out. The season is a disaster but it's been one of extreme experimentation of their existing pieces combined with extreme conservatism of their trade assets. It's not my choice (I wanted to try and get someone like Keynote George via a draft day trade ) but I can also acknowledge that I see an outline of what they're trying to do this year.

[spurs1990]

Wemby needs to tell David Robinson
Tell pop to retire
No one has the balls David Robinson does

What does that mean? Was Robinson behind Brown, Tarkanian, or Lucas being fired.. all three??

[Seventyniner]

There's always the tinfoil hat theory that the intention all along was to tank this year and that Pop is taking the hit of all the losses so that they don't accrue to another coach. Falling on his sword in more ways than one.

But that's the kind of thing that would be in a movie, not real life.

[exstatic]

This is nuts. And frankly unacceptable tbh.


Spurs largest leads this season with Wins (green) and Losses (red).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA4Txt5W4AAOLjb?format=png&name=large

Do people still think we're not tanking? :lol The "we have no talent" trope is dumped into the furnace with this graphic.

[MultiTroll]

Do people still think we're not tanking? :lol The "we have no talent" trope is dumped into the furnace with this graphic.
I don't. I think Popped is just that incompetent.
He's been blowing leads his entire career.
However, if this is some CIA Pop tank, exactly who and what are the Spurs tanking for?

[MannyIsGod]

Do people still think we're not tanking? :lol The "we have no talent" trope is dumped into the furnace with this graphic.

Id love to hear an explanation how a graphic showing 19 losses in 22 games is actually proof we have anything but rock bottom talent.

[tim_duncan_fan]

What did Dejounte mean when he said, "it's bigger than basketball?"

[MannyIsGod]

Ex you bitched for you years about how Lonnie Walker wasn't someone worth keeping because he was a net negative player. We now have a roster where only Devin Vassell is a wing who is as good as Lonnie fucking Walker. Lonnie has better defensive stats than our atrocious roster and is a way larger impact on offense. Meanwhile we see a team go 5 for 41 for 3 and if you look down the roster you're going to tell me that we've got more talent than we did from a couple of years ago?

The team is really devoid of talent. Turns out guys like Champagne aren't good and probably aren't NBA players. Maybe Keldon and Devin can get better, but that's debatable at this point. Sochan definitely can, but he and Branham have seriously regressed which isn't a great sign since year 2 is an important one. Its not a given these players will be any good. Blake Wesley? HA. Zach Collins? I'd rather have either Eubanks or Landale. Shit, I never thought I'd say it but who on this team is actually even as good as Keta Bates Diop?

This team fucking sucks my dude and not sure why you're trying to make an argument that it doesn't.

[MannyIsGod]

How many losses in a row would it take to get Pop fired? 40? 50?

[exstatic]

Ex you bitched for you years about how Lonnie Walker wasn't someone worth keeping because he was a net negative player. We now have a roster where only Devin Vassell is a wing who is as good as Lonnie fucking Walker. Lonnie has better defensive stats than our atrocious roster and is a way larger impact on offense. Meanwhile we see a team go 5 for 41 for 3 and if you look down the roster you're going to tell me that we've got more talent than we did from a couple of years ago?

The team is really devoid of talent. Turns out guys like Champagne aren't good and probably aren't NBA players. Maybe Keldon and Devin can get better, but that's debatable at this point. Sochan definitely can, but he and Branham have seriously regressed which isn't a great sign since year 2 is an important one. Its not a given these players will be any good. Blake Wesley? HA. Zach Collins? I'd rather have either Eubanks or Landale. Shit, I never thought I'd say it but who on this team is actually even as good as Keta Bates Diop?

This team fucking sucks my dude and not sure why you're trying to make an argument that it doesn't.

OK, my dude, we'll just have to agree to disagree. My view is that we are two years behind OKCs curve. They won 20ish games two years in a row, then 40, then this year. We'll have to wait to see what happens next year.

So, we were tanking last year, and replaced KBD with Victor, but now we're just bad, but not tanking? It's the same fucking players.

[spurraider21]

This is getting ridiculous. It makes no sense for the spurs to tank this year. Last year was obvious and the fan base could endure it because there was hope and the young players were actually developing. Sochan was improving at a tremendous rate last year with a defined role and a limited number of things to focus on. This year he has regressed dramatically because there are no directions at all in what he should do.

If the spurs are tanking this year this means that there is no one on the roster PATFO thinks is a worthy second banana to wemby, which is sobering. Vassell and sochan, with the right directions and growth plans can be key cogs on a contender but Vassell looks like nick young reincarnate and sochan barely looks like an nba player.

I do not buy that the spurs are tanking on purpose and I do not buy that the players are this bad. This is all poor coaching.
they kind of tanked on purpose in that they just added wemby to the tank roster. the only thing they did in the offseason to not tank harder was to use the #1 pick on wemby instead of trading it for a haul. otherwise their offseason consisted of re-signing Tre Jones, Mamu, Champagnie, Collins while also making a few trades for future picks. ffs they traded the #33 overall pick in a deep draft for 2 shit future seconds :lol

but that doesnt explain why the product on the floor is worse than last year. thats on pop

[The Truth #6]

I think tanking last year confused people into thinking that we could be good if we wanted to. I don't think we're tanking this year because he's not really holding out any good players like last year, though that Jeremy experiment will be debated. I think we're just a young team with no point guard trying to figure it out on the fly. They're no longer getting blown out by 40 points, it's just normal young bad team type of stuff now.

[exstatic]

I think tanking last year confused people into thinking that we could be good if we wanted to. I don't think we're tanking this year because he's not really holding out any good players like last year, though that Jeremy experiment will be debated. I think we're just a young team with no point guard trying to figure it out on the fly. They're no longer getting blown out by 40 points, it's just normal young bad team type of stuff now.

Other than Wemby, the roster is IDENTICAL.

[TimmyBuckets]

Pop is doing a great job tanking. Spurs don't have a history of landing great FAs. Aside from LMA, who have the Spurs landed? Players mentioning Spurs in their list of teams doesn't count b/c we know it's BS. Just be excited about the potential star we'll get as a top 3 pick and probably another good player in the top 10. Along with Vassel and Wemby, and possibly with Sochan's improvements, that should be a solid base to build on. If the Spurs contend next year rather than 2 years even better, but ST should just be glad that we landed Wemby. Otherwise, instead of contending in the next 2 years, it would be more like the next 10 years.

[The Truth #6]

Other than Wemby, the roster is IDENTICAL.

So that proves to you that we ARE tanking? The roster construction?

[exstatic]

So that proves to you that we ARE tanking? The roster construction?

If we tanked last year, with14/15 of the same roster, why would you think we’re NOT tanking this year?

[spurraider21]

If we tanked last year, with14/15 of the same roster, why would you think we’re NOT tanking this year?
if this is the extent of the analysis, why did you not think we were tanking until 10 games into the season?

[The Truth #6]

If we tanked last year, with14/15 of the same roster, why would you think we’re NOT tanking this year?

You didn't seem to have this same opinion with this same roster in preseason. I remember our conversations being to the effect of this is a developmental year and we'll see where it goes. To me, that's different than tanking. I think a logical explanation is that they are a very young team, and very young teams often lose a lot of games. Or is this a semantical difference for you?

[exstatic]

You didn't seem to have this same opinion with this same roster in preseason. I remember our conversations being to the effect of this is a developmental year and we'll see where it goes. To me, that's different than tanking. I think a logical explanation is that they are a very young team, and very young teams often lose a lot of games. Or is this a semantical difference for you?

In other threads I have admitted to being a bonehead, and taking 10 games +/- to figure it out.

[spurraider21]

In other threads I have admitted to being a bonehead, and taking 10 games +/- to figure it out.
it took you 10 games to realize we had the same roster as last year, or 10 games to recalibrate your definition of tanking?

[exstatic]

it took you 10 games to realize we had the same roster as last year, or 10 games to recalibrate your definition of tanking?

To realize we were tanking, having virtually the same team, and losing in the same way. I was so 'all in' early, that I paid $2500 for two seats downstairs at the FBC for 10 games, and another $200 for parking, so if anyone has a reason to bitch about the tank, it's me, and I refuse.

[offset formation]

Ex you bitched for you years about how Lonnie Walker wasn't someone worth keeping because he was a net negative player. We now have a roster where only Devin Vassell is a wing who is as good as Lonnie fucking Walker. Lonnie has better defensive stats than our atrocious roster and is a way larger impact on offense. Meanwhile we see a team go 5 for 41 for 3 and if you look down the roster you're going to tell me that we've got more talent than we did from a couple of years ago?

The team is really devoid of talent. Turns out guys like Champagne aren't good and probably aren't NBA players. Maybe Keldon and Devin can get better, but that's debatable at this point. Sochan definitely can, but he and Branham have seriously regressed which isn't a great sign since year 2 is an important one. Its not a given these players will be any good. Blake Wesley? HA. Zach Collins? I'd rather have either Eubanks or Landale. Shit, I never thought I'd say it but who on this team is actually even as good as Keta Bates Diop?

This team fucking sucks my dude and not sure why you're trying to make an argument that it doesn't.

Got to bare bones it at this point and go with what's plain to see where defensive effort or ability is shown. I get rid of Keldon, Champ, Collins, Jones (just too small), Branham, McDermott.

Wesley has shown occasional flashes but his offense is rather atrocious so peace out to him.

I give a ultimatum to show marked improvement to Vassell and Sochan game in and game out. Sometimes ain't good enough on a team where they're the leaders.

I'm actively only keeping Wemby, Bassey, Mamu, Osman, Cissoko, Barlow.

You could ostensibly build a very good team from those players with the right draft picks and trades and get this team on the right path. Because the alternative is historically bad defense. Got to cut the wheat from the chaff.

[dbestpro]

Someone needs to be held accountable for the loses. Trade someone, fire someone, cut someone, but do something that says this culture of losing is not acceptable. No one is getting better.

[MannyIsGod]

OK, my dude, we'll just have to agree to disagree. My view is that we are two years behind OKCs curve. They won 20ish games two years in a row, then 40, then this year. We'll have to wait to see what happens next year.

So, we were tanking last year, and replaced KBD with Victor, but now we're just bad, but not tanking? It's the same fucking players.

First, you can't gloss over like adding Victor is some run of the mill transaction. Dude is a force and should be having an impact on the Spurs record but we're WORSE.

Second, yes, its just another year with much of the same cast, but we have 3 second year players, and many others who are young AF and from whom you would expect to see a substantial level of improvement and yet almost everyone - if not everyone actually - has REGRESSED from what they were doing last year. Even if we just ran it back with the same players and didn't add Wemby you don't see how getting WORSE results from the same group after substantial time is an issue and something to be extremely concerned about?

But worst of all, these players seem to be OK with losing. It is clear the losing is really bothering Wemby, but outside of him? I see Vassell and Keldon laughing and flexing and doing so many things like that while losing 17 games in a row and it doesn't inspire me with confidence that these players who have known nothing but losing actually have what it takes between the ears to be winners. Nothing from the Spurs this offeason indicated they were in a tanking mode. None of the statemnts form Pop, the front office, or the players have indicated that at any point. I sure as shit don't think the point was ever to run out and lose 17 in a row.

This shit is just y'all coping and hoping that this is actually the plan because the alternatives are way worse.

[MannyIsGod]

it took you 10 games to realize we had the same roster as last year, or 10 games to recalibrate your definition of tanking?

Bingo

[MannyIsGod]

Got to bare bones it at this point and go with what's plain to see where defensive effort or ability is shown. I get rid of Keldon, Champ, Collins, Jones (just too small), Branham, McDermott.

Wesley has shown occasional flashes but his offense is rather atrocious so peace out to him.

I give a ultimatum to show marked improvement to Vassell and Sochan game in and game out. Sometimes ain't good enough on a team where they're the leaders.

I'm actively only keeping Wemby, Bassey, Mamu, Osman, Cissoko, Barlow.

You could ostensibly build a very good team from those players with the right draft picks and trades and get this team on the right path. Because the alternative is historically bad defense. Got to cut the wheat from the chaff.


Quite frankly, the only player I want to keep at this point is Wemby. I have been higher on Keldon than most but at this point the attitude they have that its OK to lose is just really turning me off. This team really lacks fight and they lose concentration so fucking much. Part of it is the piss poor schemes that Pop is running out right now. Its insane how much helping this team does defensively that inevitable leaves shooters open and that's either the players being incredibly poorly coached (or dumb) or just a really bad scheme.

We have a serious lack of talent but its also really difficult to be THIS bad. We were HISTORICALLY bad on defense last year and even by running it back we should have seen some improvement this year - especially when adding Wemby, but our net rating is even worse and defensive rating is only marginally better.

Any other coach in the NBA and there would be alarm bells going off and they would be firmly on the hot seat but all we here about Pop is how great he is.

[baseline bum]

First, you can't gloss over like adding Victor is some run of the mill transaction. Dude is a force and should be having an impact on the Spurs record but we're WORSE.

Second, yes, its just another year with much of the same cast, but we have 3 second year players, and many others who are young AF and from whom you would expect to see a substantial level of improvement and yet almost everyone - if not everyone actually - has REGRESSED from what they were doing last year. Even if we just ran it back with the same players and didn't add Wemby you don't see how getting WORSE results from the same group after substantial time is an issue and something to be extremely concerned about?

But worst of all, these players seem to be OK with losing. It is clear the losing is really bothering Wemby, but outside of him? I see Vassell and Keldon laughing and flexing and doing so many things like that while losing 17 games in a row and it doesn't inspire me with confidence that these players who have known nothing but losing actually have what it takes between the ears to be winners. Nothing from the Spurs this offeason indicated they were in a tanking mode. None of the statemnts form Pop, the front office, or the players have indicated that at any point. I sure as shit don't think the point was ever to run out and lose 17 in a row.

This shit is just y'all coping and hoping that this is actually the plan because the alternatives are way worse.

Pop seems to be OK with losing. I miss the Pop who used to flip out at Tony Parker and Danny Green when they fucked up and made them into really good players. Not that I expect this to be a winning team when they're so light on talent outside Victor but JFC you should be able to win some games with defensive effort and right now seems like we're seeing none outside of Victor.

[MannyIsGod]

Pop seems to be OK with losing. I miss the Pop who used to flip out at Tony Parker and Danny Green when they fucked up and made them into really good players. Not that I expect this to be a winning team when they're so light on talent outside Victor but JFC you should be able to win some games with defensive effort and right now seems like we're seeing none outside of Victor.

Exactly man, I don't expect Pop to have the same fire he had 10-20 years ago - well all mellow with age - but sometimes this team just does shit that would have led to Danny on the bench for a month and nothing happens. This team's players are OK with doing dumb shit and overall with losing and it shows. That's a big issue. This team desperately needs a Mario Ellie type of presence. I don't think anyone expected this team to be good by any stretch but I sure AF did not expect us to beat the losing streak record they set last year. This team hasn't won in over a month and you can't tell me that's good for a young team.

[baseline bum]

Kind of wonder if Victor must be disappointed as hell to play for Pop right now, in a never meet your heroes kind of way. When he was drafted he sounded like he wanted that Pop who yelled at players when they made mistakes and who demanded effort, concentration, and steady improvement or you could go fuck off to the bench.

[spurs10]

To realize we were tanking, having virtually the same team, and losing in the same way. I was so 'all in' early, that I paid $2500 for two seats downstairs at the FBC for 10 games, and another $200 for parking, so if anyone has a reason to bitch about the tank, it's me, and I refuse. Yeah it's a pretty penny to pay to watch your team lose game after game. Yeah I was a bonehead as well and it took awhile to realize we aren't trying to win.

[baseline bum]

Exactly man, I don't expect Pop to have the same fire he had 10-20 years ago - well all mellow with age - but sometimes this team just does shit that would have led to Danny on the bench for a month and nothing happens. This team's players are OK with doing dumb shit and overall with losing and it shows. That's a big issue. This team desperately needs a Mario Ellie type of presence.

I do, that's his job and he's well paid for it. If he didn't want to coach the team he should have retired instead of quiet quitting.

[exstatic]

First, you can't gloss over like adding Victor is some run of the mill transaction. Dude is a force and should be having an impact on the Spurs record but we're WORSE.

Second, yes, its just another year with much of the same cast, but we have 3 second year players, and many others who are young AF and from whom you would expect to see a substantial level of improvement and yet almost everyone - if not everyone actually - has REGRESSED from what they were doing last year. Even if we just ran it back with the same players and didn't add Wemby you don't see how getting WORSE results from the same group after substantial time is an issue and something to be extremely concerned about?

But worst of all, these players seem to be OK with losing. It is clear the losing is really bothering Wemby, but outside of him? I see Vassell and Keldon laughing and flexing and doing so many things like that while losing 17 games in a row and it doesn't inspire me with confidence that these players who have known nothing but losing actually have what it takes between the ears to be winners. Nothing from the Spurs this offeason indicated they were in a tanking mode. None of the statemnts form Pop, the front office, or the players have indicated that at any point. I sure as shit don't think the point was ever to run out and lose 17 in a row.

This shit is just y'all coping and hoping that this is actually the plan because the alternatives are way worse.

He’s a force on defense, with a Drtg of 110. He’s currently a zero on offense, with an Ortg of 95.

[spurraider21]

Pop seems to be OK with losing. I miss the Pop who used to flip out at Tony Parker and Danny Green when they fucked up and made them into really good players. Not that I expect this to be a winning team when they're so light on talent outside Victor but JFC you should be able to win some games with defensive effort and right now seems like we're seeing none outside of Victor. Chinook can attest to this, but Danny would make several great plays in a row, make one mistake, and pop would bench him for it :lol

pop was also known for coaching everybody the same. yeah he would give danny a hard time. or white. lonnie. but he would also yell at timmy. was notoriously hard on parker. where the fuck is that pop when wemby jacks up 30 foot 3 pointers with 16 on the shot clock? or when there is obvious lack of hustle. still see so many of these guys jogging, or maybe lightly running on transition D. no, you have to be sprinting. pop of old would do a hockey shift rotation if he saw the starting 5 jog in transition

[spurraider21]

He’s a force on defense, with a Drtg of 110. He’s currently a zero on offense, with an Ortg of 95.
his Ortg is shit because he's been sabotaged by being forced to play most of his minutes without a point guard

[exstatic]

his Ortg is shit because he's been sabotaged by being forced to play most of his minutes without a point guard

But we’re not tanking…

[spurraider21]

But we’re not tanking…
sabotaging the development of our young guys for a better pick in a year with no one clear prize. brilliant

tanking is generally a roster construction thing. we already did that during the offseason. now we're just fucking guys over by letting them continue playing with bad habits and in a directionless offense

let me be clear. i dont think theres a magic button pop can push to turn this roster, this year, into a winning club that would be fighting for a playoff spot. but you act like there is no line between being a playoff team and setting a franchise record for consecutive losses. its a fucking joke. the spurs have a net rating of +25 with the 3 man lineup of Wemby/Vassell/Tre on the floor. but there are more Wemby/Sochan/Branham minutes than that lineup even though they have a -29 net rtg. its a disgrace

or a rather obvious one, the 5 man lineup of Wemby/Sochan/Keldon/Vassell/Tre... the starting lineup that a lot of people here were suggesting all offseason... has a net rating of +41. they have 21 minutes together. there's a fucking Champagnie lineup with more minutes than that one

if you look at our top 5 man lineups (that have played at least 10 minutes together), 7 of the top 8 feature Tre and Wemby together. you might say the team having 7 wins instead of 3 would be catastrophic for us, but id say its valuable experience for wemby to learn the ins and outs of playing with a point guard, learning how to run effective pick and rolls, etc

to emphasize again, i dont think theres any magic button to make this team a playoff team that pop simply isnt pushing, and those net rtgs arent sustainable. but its just obvious shit that we arent seeing to the detriment of the development of the players. whether we pick #3 or #7 is much less important than if wemby develops well vs does not

[Extra Stout]

his Ortg is shit because he's been sabotaged by being forced to play most of his minutes without a point guard
I don’t think the lack of a point guard is why he often looks like Bambi on roller skates, or why he’s so weak he ends up getting pushed out halfway to the three-point line when he tries to post up.

[spurraider21]

I don’t think the lack of a point guard is why he often looks like Bambi on roller skates, or why he’s so weak he ends up getting pushed out halfway to the three-point line when he tries to post up.
he's a 19 year old rookie. im not expecting him to be the best player on a good team. but what you are describing, his weakness in scoring in post ups, or isos... is exactly why he could use the benefit of a point guard who can set the table for him to get more easy finishes.

nobody confuses deandre jordan for an offensive dynamo but he was scoring 13 ppg because chris paul would set him up for easy to convert, high percentage shots. imagine wemby had 6-7 of those types of looks per game, rather than 1-2

[scott]

To realize we were tanking, having virtually the same team, and losing in the same way. I was so 'all in' early, that I paid $2500 for two seats downstairs at the FBC for 10 games, and another $200 for parking, so if anyone has a reason to bitch about the tank, it's me, and I refuse.

Just one exception I take here, and it is with this. We aren’t losing in the same way. Last year, Pop had to sit guys who got up on the wrong side of the bed, and do weird 4th quarter rotations to squander leads.

This year, we’ve been pretty healthy, our generational talent has played in all but one game, and we are mostly losing in the 3rd quarter with a regular rotation in place. Whereas last year’s team almost had to try and lose as many games, this year’s team is doing it effortlessly.

[scott]

Manny and BB make great points about the apparent lack of concern with losing amongst most of the players.

What this team really needs is a GM willing to make a move that gets the players and coaching staff shook. A Billy Bean type move - getting rid of Art Howe’s pet cats to force him into embracing the plan Billy wanted to execute. Something to the effect of trading Vassell, or Sochan, or Keldon. Do those sound like drastic moves? Yeah, they do… but that’s what it takes for the players and coaching staff to take notice.

Unfortunately, or FO isn’t structured like that in that the GM reports to the Head Coach, who is the President of Basketball Operations. Thus, any accountability has been removed.

[exstatic]

Manny and BB make great points about the apparent lack of concern with losing amongst most of the players.

What this team really needs is a GM willing to make a move that gets the players and coaching staff shook. A Billy Bean type move - getting rid of Art Howe’s pet cats to force him into embracing the plan Billy wanted to execute. Something to the effect of trading Vassell, or Sochan, or Keldon. Do those sound like drastic moves? Yeah, they do… but that’s what it takes for the players and coaching staff to take notice.

Unfortunately, or FO isn’t structured like that in that the GM reports to the Head Coach, who is the President of Basketball Operations. Thus, any accountability has been removed.

The Holts could make Pop do anything they wanted, or force him out. Yet, they don't.

[exstatic]

Just one exception I take here, and it is with this. We aren’t losing in the same way. Last year, Pop had to sit guys who got up on the wrong side of the bed, and do weird 4th quarter rotations to squander leads.

This year, we’ve been pretty healthy, our generational talent has played in all but one game, and we are mostly losing in the 3rd quarter with a regular rotation in place. Whereas last year’s team almost had to try and lose as many games, this year’s team is doing it effortlessly.

If anything, the rotation is weirder this year. I don't think we ever ran a zero PG set for anything but a minute or two last year. This year, only the bench unit gets a PG, and it's Tre, who can't shoot, and who's flaws are exposed and magnified by playing off the bench.

[Extra Stout]

The Holts could make Pop do anything they wanted, or force him out. Yet, they don't.
I think the Holts stay out of the basketball side and just trust Pop. I think the whole organization trusts Pop. Even if he doesn’t have the same fire as a coach, they’re going to ride with him until the wheels fall off.

The only caveat would be if Wembanyama forced a change. Obviously a 19-year-old who is still learning won’t do that.

The Spurs said they wanted to use this season to see what they have, to understand how players fit around Wembanyama. Less than two months in, they have some answers: “nothing” and “they don’t.” So the rest of the season feels pointless and hopeless.

Pop isn’t a bad coach. He’s just not as good as he used to be, because he doesn’t appear to hold players accountable in the same way.

[exstatic]

I think the Holts stay out of the basketball side and just trust Pop. I think the whole organization trusts Pop. Even if he doesn’t have the same fire as a coach, they’re going to ride with him until the wheels fall off.

The only caveat would be if Wembanyama forced a change. Obviously a 19-year-old who is still learning won’t do that.

The Spurs said they wanted to use this season to see what they have, to understand how players fit around Wembanyama. Less than two months in, they have some answers: “nothing” and “they don’t.” So the rest of the season feels pointless and hopeless.

Pop isn’t a bad coach. He’s just not as good as he used to be, because he doesn’t appear to hold players accountable in the same way.

New England appears to be ready to jettison multiple SB winning coach Bill Bellichek. Icons do get fired, and this is really their FIRST bad season. We're in the middle of our second, and nary a peep from ownership.

Rich people don't like losing, and have very little patience, as a group. Why not even a whisper of discontent?

[MultiTroll]

Pop isn’t a bad coach. He’s just not as good as he used to be, because he doesn’t appear to hold players accountable in the same way.
:lol This notion that Popped not holding players accountable is some new thing.

He's had his pets all along. Michael Finley could play like dogshit. When he and Pop were dating he would NEVER get pulled or scolded. We're talking 2009 2010 in particular. Ya ya we won in 2007 after choking off 2006 with the most stacked team in the NBA.
Manu GNob 2013 Finals Game 6. Watch the game but not thru Spurs Homer glasses. That 8 turnover game was far far beyond pathetic. Asshat never got pulled and a Duncan Chip and MVP Finals was robbed.

Timmy Dunks covered over Pops deficiancies. He could stand there and signal 4 Down and then give pompous lines in post game interviews.

Long, long gone. Check the record since Duncan and then Prime Kahwi went down.

[MannyIsGod]

New England appears to be ready to jettison multiple SB winning coach Bill Bellichek. Icons do get fired, and this is really their FIRST bad season. We're in the middle of our second, and nary a peep from ownership.

Rich people don't like losing, and have very little patience, as a group. Why not even a whisper of discontent?

So fucking what? Is your argument that Pop is somehow doing a good job because the Holt's won't fire him? I don't need some stupid metric of what the Holts are doing in order to evaluate Pop's coaching and the fact that THIS is your defense is telling.

[scott]

So fucking what? Is your argument that Pop is somehow doing a good job because the Holt's won't fire him? I don't need some stupid metric of what the Holts are doing in order to evaluate Pop's coaching and the fact that THIS is your defense is telling.

Yeah I’m not exactly sure what point exstatic is trying to make - maybe that the Holts are along for the plan?

Either way, I’m fine with also saying that the Holts are failing as owners. They’re the only ones who can hold Pop (as head of Basketball Ops, not as HC) accountable to a higher standard, and they don’t.

You can combat that with saying there is nothing to hold Pop accountable for, since he is doing the plan just how they want… in which case, they still suck since they seem content with putting out this product when they had the fanbase in the palm of their hands after getting Wemby. They could have gotten anything they want out of this city and fanbase, and instead they just decided to shit all over all of us.

So… either they suck for not holding Pop to a higher standard, or they suck for being okay with this being the standard.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah I mean I don't get the point here but its hard to find a defense that the organization is doing ANYTHING right when you're approaching 20 losses in a row! Like this shit is completely indefensible. This is not tanking this is being historically bad. Not many teams in the history of the game have had streaks this poor much less two years in a row. Its really hard to oversell how bad this team is right now. This is no longer about tanking but about whether or not we're going to set more records that are not of the good sort.

[TimmyBuckets]

Yes the owners are failing, Pop is failing, everyone on the organization is failing. They're failing so hard they set themselves up to get a generational talent and jump start a rebuild that would otherwise have taken a decade probably. What a failure. Now what would have been a middling season at best (though unlikely, as they were set to win 20 or so games before the season started), is the only opportunity they have left to tank and get a top tier talent with a top 3 and top 10 pick. What a terrible strategy (see KD's Sonics first season record).

I love the whiners on here that offer no solutions and think Spurs are in a terrible situation, where other teams who've had multiple bad years with good talent aren't even close to being as set up for success as the Spurs are. How long was Embiid on the Sixers for before they became good? When were the pistons ever good with their multiple terrible years? Butthurt fans are still yapping about Pop's mic moment and are unable to see the bigger picture. IDK if you noticed but the Big 3 aren't here anymore. This isn't the late 90's team with vets ready to compete that a 21.5 year old Timmy came to. This is the young inexperienced team that Wemby came to. You're 5 years too early to be calling for Pop's head dummies. Only Pop can remove Pop. He should just give himself an extension so ST can commit a mass Hara-kiri.

[exstatic]

So fucking what? Is your argument that Pop is somehow doing a good job because the Holt's won't fire him? I don't need some stupid metric of what the Holts are doing in order to evaluate Pop's coaching and the fact that THIS is your defense is telling.

Manny, never change. You’re like Wind In His Hair from Dances with Wolves. First you are angry, always.

I’m saying the Holts are OK with the 2nd tank, and no, they’re not coping. :lol

[timtonymanu]

The sniffers acting like Wemby landing on the spurs was a master plan. What if the lottery ball didn’t go their way? We would have amen Thompson to lead this team of scrubs. Easy to bring up the “oh yeah the spurs have a plan” excuse because they were lucky enough to land Wemby. They sure as shit got lucky because they would be in even bigger turmoil without him.

[rascal]

The Holts could make Pop do anything they wanted, or force him out. Yet, they don't.

And they won't.

It would be a bad look for a conservative organization to fire their future Hall of Fame coach who coached the team to five titles.

[TimmyBuckets]

Landing Wemby was the master plan. They’ve been scouting him for years. He played for TP’s and Diaw’s teams and they’ve known about him for years. Besides that, what exactly would the dweeebs on here have Pop do? Have spurs bottom 6-7 instead of bottom 3? There’s such a thing as tanking properly. Spurs made moves to put themselves in this position. Poetl trade remember what they got back? DJ trade remember what they got back? What did you expect this team to do? Keep DJ and have him along with some top 20 pick and run with that so ST can whine about them not tanking?

PS: I’m in the Spurs rigged it camp lowkey but that’s neither here nor there lol

[RC_Drunkford]

First, you can't gloss over like adding Victor is some run of the mill transaction. Dude is a force and should be having an impact on the Spurs record but we're WORSE.

Second, yes, its just another year with much of the same cast, but we have 3 second year players, and many others who are young AF and from whom you would expect to see a substantial level of improvement and yet almost everyone - if not everyone actually - has REGRESSED from what they were doing last year. Even if we just ran it back with the same players and didn't add Wemby you don't see how getting WORSE results from the same group after substantial time is an issue and something to be extremely concerned about?

But worst of all, these players seem to be OK with losing. It is clear the losing is really bothering Wemby, but outside of him? I see Vassell and Keldon laughing and flexing and doing so many things like that while losing 17 games in a row and it doesn't inspire me with confidence that these players who have known nothing but losing actually have what it takes between the ears to be winners. Nothing from the Spurs this offeason indicated they were in a tanking mode. None of the statemnts form Pop, the front office, or the players have indicated that at any point. I sure as shit don't think the point was ever to run out and lose 17 in a row.

This shit is just y'all coping and hoping that this is actually the plan because the alternatives are way worse.

Right on the money. If Pop was tanking he wouldn't play the same rotation. He'd play Wesley, Barlow and the rest of the end of the bench so everybody can get playing time. This team is just dumb and bad with a bad coach. That's a terrible combination.

[HemisfairArena]

And they won't.

It would be a bad look for a conservative organization to fire their future Hall of Fame coach who coached the team to five titles.

bullshit,,,New England is running Belichick out of town at the end of the season and not worried how it looks because they have the balls,,,,our organization does not. Belichick has down everything Pop has done but in the NFL but they have had enough of his losing and ready to move on,,,,our organization is going down with the ship and will probably lose Wemby in the process,,,

[timtonymanu]

Yes the owners are failing, Pop is failing, everyone on the organization is failing. They're failing so hard they set themselves up to get a generational talent and jump start a rebuild that would otherwise have taken a decade probably. What a failure. Now what would have been a middling season at best (though unlikely, as they were set to win 20 or so games before the season started), is the only opportunity they have left to tank and get a top tier talent with a top 3 and top 10 pick. What a terrible strategy (see KD's Sonics first season record).

I love the whiners on here that offer no solutions and think Spurs are in a terrible situation, where other teams who've had multiple bad years with good talent aren't even close to being as set up for success as the Spurs are. How long was Embiid on the Sixers for before they became good? When were the pistons ever good with their multiple terrible years? Butthurt fans are still yapping about Pop's mic moment and are unable to see the bigger picture. IDK if you noticed but the Big 3 aren't here anymore. This isn't the late 90's team with vets ready to compete that a 21.5 year old Timmy came to. This is the young inexperienced team that Wemby came to. You're 5 years too early to be calling for Pop's head dummies. Only Pop can remove Pop. He should just give himself an extension so ST can commit a mass Hara-kiri.

I love how you bring up how the big 3 aren’t here anymore but this also isn’t the same Pop from the title years. But okay, keep convincing yourself that this was part of the plan, to lose 18 straight, to absolutely make sure our players don’t develop correctly. To be happy with losing. I would be all “yay tanking” If we were actually seeing development from our players outside Wemby. But like manny has said, they have ALL regressed. Like y’all wouldn’t be having this same tune if we got stuck with Scoot or the Thompson twins.

[RC_Drunkford]

some of y'all have your head so far up Pop's ass, it's hilarious

[gambit1990]

pop won’t get fired. it’s not even his resume saving him … it’s his contract.

[druggas]

And they won't.

It would be a bad look for a conservative organization to fire their future Hall of Fame coach who coached the team to five titles.

Phil Jackson was fired and his resume craps all over Popovich's.

[poopbox]

And they won't.

It would be a bad look for a conservative organization to fire their future Hall of Fame coach who coached the team to five titles.

I don't think it would. I actually think starting next year the media will start the "pop needs to go you can't risk losing your franchise player cause you can't win" storyline. I also think more than a few players on this team have tuned Pop out. Also...who would actually care if Pop got fired? Who are the people who would be like thats it Pop gone I'm not supporting the Spurs anymore. I can't think of any.

[JeffDuncan]

… If Pop was tanking he wouldn't play the same rotation. He'd play Wesley, Barlow and the rest of the end of the bench so everybody can get playing time. This team is just dumb and bad with a bad coach. That's a terrible combination.


You are correct. Especially consider Wesley. He is supposedly being developed, and the Spurs are supposedly high on him. He has been available for 17 games this season, but he has played in only 5 games, for a grand total of 24 minutes. If Pop is tanking, so that wins don’t matter, where is Wesley’s development time?

Good ole Pop, the incompetent goofball, is trying to win. It’s sad.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, never change. You’re like Wind In His Hair from Dances with Wolves. First you are angry, always.

I’m saying the Holts are OK with the 2nd tank, and no, they’re not coping. :lol

The Holts might be OK with the status right now given that ticket sales are probalby still good due to Wemby being here, but I seriously doubt they'd be OK with multiple tank years were attendance figures hit really low numbers. They very obviously will give Pop such a long rope that I have no idea what it would take for him to be under public pressure but to take that and then try to act like this is some kind of grand plan is just ridiculous. We have no idea how the Holts feel about this, but I doubt they look at the losing streak and think FUCK YEAH THIS IS GREAT.

I'm not angry dude. I don't put a but of emotions and I use strong language because that's how I communicate but you trying to deflect from the stupid shit you keep trying to latch onto about how the situation is no big deal is just you deflecting. I've never been one to blame Pop for shit. I've never been doom and gloom and I've been higher on many of these players than a lot of people on here. But to sit here and look at the current situation as anything but a gigantic dumpster fire and incredibly problematic is just the pinnacle of bullshit. That doesn't make me angry but by all means continue to deflect since you seem hell bent on your stupid position.

[MannyIsGod]

The sniffers acting like Wemby landing on the spurs was a master plan. What if the lottery ball didn’t go their way? We would have amen Thompson to lead this team of scrubs. Easy to bring up the “oh yeah the spurs have a plan” excuse because they were lucky enough to land Wemby. They sure as shit got lucky because they would be in even bigger turmoil without him.

Actually do think its fair to say that Wemby was the master plan. Or at least maximizing our chance to get Wemby, which turned out well. Just because its low probability doens't mean that it wasn't what they planned for.

[Mikeanaro]

Ok Wemby was the master plan, and that master plan leads to 20 losses in a row?
More like a train wreck and Pop needs to be fired.

[Sugus]

The sniffers acting like Wemby landing on the spurs was a master plan. What if the lottery ball didn’t go their way? We would have amen Thompson to lead this team of scrubs. Easy to bring up the “oh yeah the spurs have a plan” excuse because they were lucky enough to land Wemby. They sure as shit got lucky because they would be in even bigger turmoil without him.

You do know a plan doesn't have to be infallible to be a good one, right? You're irrationally wrong here. By all accounts, the Spurs did have VW as their master plan. TiMVP did an article on it and everything a couple months before the draft.

If the lottery balls had landed differently and we'd gotten a non-franchise prospects, the Spurs would've tanked again and again, until they got one. Isn't that the whole shtick with tanking? They'll still tank this year for the hopeful 1B piece, and then try to turn the page. If it fails, rinse and repeat, like everyone else does.

It's funny, after so many years of the Choir preaching to the Spurs to tank, seeing everyone so flabbergasted by it... Funny indeed.

[Sugus]

Ok Wemby was the master plan, and that master plan leads to 20 losses in a row?
More like a train wreck and Pop needs to be fired.

Yeah, man, you got it. The master plan ends at the middle of your franchise prospect's rookie season. Eureka!

[Sugus]

We have no idea how the Holts feel about this, but I doubt they look at the losing streak and think FUCK YEAH THIS IS GREAT.

This is unfair. We don't know how the owners personally feel, but it's certainly fair to judge the Spurs' general non-reaction to their record as a sign that ownership is, at the least, on board with the status and outlook of the team. We all say it - any other coach losing 17 or whatever in a row, would be under the "hot seat". So where's the heat - any at all? You say it yourself, Pop keeps doing the same thing, trots the same lineups...


But to sit here and look at the current situation as anything but a gigantic dumpster fire and incredibly problematic is just the pinnacle of bullshit. That doesn't make me angry but by all means continue to deflect since you seem hell bent on your stupid position.

What's so "incredibly problematic" about the situation, tbh? The Spurs are tanking this year. They look terrible, as they should. They weren't expected to be this bad, as people (myself included) overstated the impact rookie Wemby would have on the team, but beyond that, it wasn't really gonna turn out much differently. The team had glaring, glaring holes last year, that contributed to the tank -- and they decided to fix none of them in the off-season. I wonder what you thought would happen (besides the part about VW)?

Like seriously. When they decided not to address the "no starting PG" issue of last season, and instead decided to convert their PF into a PG as a self-stated experiment, just where did you think the season was going? Everyone's shat on the Sochan PG experiment, but it's going pretty much as expected, and the team knows it, hence the above.

[Seventyniner]

There's just a lot of fan fatigue right now over the long losing streak. Even with the Spurs' terrible point differential, their Pythagorean expected record is 5-18.

Let's say the Spurs had won 2 games in the last 18 instead of zero: the Miami and Atlanta games. Then they would be 5-18 with losing streaks of 4, 7, and 5 along the way. I think there would be a lot less cliffjumping here in that scenario, even though it's actually worse for the Spurs in terms of lottery positioning.

[Mikeanaro]

Yeah, man, you got it. The master plan ends at the middle of your franchise prospect's rookie season. Eureka!
Terrible plan, you get an awesome rookie and then you make it play with no PG or no team whatsoever.
Small market teams are hard I get it, but playing for Pop is a huge minus.
In the old days they had to learn ¨the system¨ so there was a learning curve but now Pop makes these kids run and shoot like headless chickens.
They need a new coach, not the arrogant woke fest that Pop is.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I do think these young guys would benefit from a couple of veteran mentors on the roster to learn from and to emulate. Too bad the league has very few of those guys that are a) available, and b) affordable anymore.

Feels like this team will have to take it's lumps and hopefully the roster will get molded a bit with improvements for next season.



Maybe Manu, Tony and Tim would come back and play 10 minutes a night. :)

[MannyIsGod]

There's just a lot of fan fatigue right now over the long losing streak. Even with the Spurs' terrible point differential, their Pythagorean expected record is 5-18.

Let's say the Spurs had won 2 games in the last 18 instead of zero: the Miami and Atlanta games. Then they would be 5-18 with losing streaks of 4, 7, and 5 along the way. I think there would be a lot less cliffjumping here in that scenario, even though it's actually worse for the Spurs in terms of lottery positioning.

But I've watched every single one of those games and they have not been in real position to win any of them. This is an incredibly non competitive team right now. Regardless of what the expected wins are by any given model the Spurs have not been in a position to win a single game in this steak which is pretty incredible. It's really impossible to overstate how bad this team has been.

[MannyIsGod]

This is unfair. We don't know how the owners personally feel, but it's certainly fair to judge the Spurs' general non-reaction to their record as a sign that ownership is, at the least, on board with the status and outlook of the team. We all say it - any other coach losing 17 or whatever in a row, would be under the "hot seat". So where's the heat - any at all? You say it yourself, Pop keeps doing the same thing, trots the same lineups...



What's so "incredibly problematic" about the situation, tbh? The Spurs are tanking this year. They look terrible, as they should. They weren't expected to be this bad, as people (myself included) overstated the impact rookie Wemby would have on the team, but beyond that, it wasn't really gonna turn out much differently. The team had glaring, glaring holes last year, that contributed to the tank -- and they decided to fix none of them in the off-season. I wonder what you thought would happen (besides the part about VW)?

Like seriously. When they decided not to address the "no starting PG" issue of last season, and instead decided to convert their PF into a PG as a self-stated experiment, just where did you think the season was going? Everyone's shat on the Sochan PG experiment, but it's going pretty much as expected, and the team knows it, hence the above.

I actually don't think we were wrong in Wemby impact. He's been amazing and it's not his fault we've regressed. What's problematic is that we've regressed despite having a high impact player which points to the rest of the team being worse than they were the year before. All of these players that should be improving are getting worse. That is incredibly problematic.

[exstatic]

I actually don't think we were wrong in Wemby impact. He's been amazing and it's not his fault we've regressed. What's problematic is that we've regressed despite having a high impact player which points to the rest of the team being worse than they were the year before. All of these players that should be improving are getting worse. That is incredibly problematic.

OKC won 20ish games twice with SGA on the roster putting up roughly 24p/6a/5r over the two year span. The horror.

[MannyIsGod]

OKC won 20ish games twice with SGA on the roster putting up roughly 24p/6a/5r over the two year span. The horror.

Ok and how many of those players from the first year are on OKC now? Other than SGA it's only Dort. So basically the entire roster turned over. You obviously weren't expecting the entire roster to turn over before the season. Are you now? If so then why are they signing Zach Collins to his contract? If so why have they extended Vassel and Keldon?

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that this team is intentionally tanking but actually good then use a team that was so bad they have kept no one as a comparison. You literally just throw shit against the wall hoping it sticks without actually putting any thought to it.

[scott]

I think most would be fine with another tank this year if it came along with visible signs of development. Instead we see nothing but regression, and even a situation that doesn’t develop Wemby to his full potential.

[MultiTroll]

I think most would be fine with another tank this year if it came along with visible signs of development. Instead we see nothing but regression, and even a situation that doesn’t develop Wemby to his full potential.

[exstatic]

Ok and how many of those players from the first year are on OKC now? Other than SGA it's only Dort. So basically the entire roster turned over. You obviously weren't expecting the entire roster to turn over before the season. Are you now? If so then why are they signing Zach Collins to his contract? If so why have they extended Vassel and Keldon?

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that this team is intentionally tanking but actually good then use a team that was so bad they have kept no one as a comparison. You literally just throw shit against the wall hoping it sticks without actually putting any thought to it.

Never said they were good, just better than their record. Never said we would, or should keep everyone from this roster. A better comparison for OKC would be between their 1st and 2nd 20 win teams, not their roster now. We could very well have 4 FRPs in the next two drafts that could become our Chet and our Jalen.

You do understand that you can't tank solely with roster construction, you HAVE to dump games intentionally by, I don't know, not playing a PG, right? I think everyone here agrees that the team would likely be better and win more games if we played one in the starting lineup. We still aren't. Malaki is running the point now. I mean, we had Phoenix pay us to take a PG in his 20s with Finals experience who can shoot and play defense, and we waived him with only Tre on the roster. One of the best movement/pullup shooters on the roster, Graham, can't buy a minute in a rotation that is crying out for that exact skill set. WE ARE PLAYING DOUG MCDERMOTT IN THE ROTATION. None of these are accidents. If we were in full on player development mode, and running a PG and an optimal rotation, this team would finish somewhere in the 6-9 pre-lottery draft position, which would be a fucking disaster. We have to finish in the bottom 3 to get our Wemby sidekick, and two other teams are free falling along with us, with two others maybe 3 games back, and both 3-7 for their last 10.

[ambchang]

I wouldn’t have much problems if the spurs would be competitive then pop pull players or put in stupid lineups to sabotage the games like they did last year. Instead the spurs were pile drived end to end in every single game they played this year. It’s horrible.

[Splits]

Pop just coached what might be the greatest game in NBA history. Top 5 for sure. Legend.

[Sugus]

I actually don't think we were wrong in Wemby impact. He's been amazing and it's not his fault we've regressed. What's problematic is that we've regressed despite having a high impact player which points to the rest of the team being worse than they were the year before. All of these players that should be improving are getting worse. That is incredibly problematic.

I don't see what you mean. Devin has improved. Keldon is at his ceiling and has been playing consistent ball for his standard. Sochan has improved in spite of learning a new role on the go. Most of the other guys are, frankly, JAG for the Spurs' relvant long-term planning. I'm not losing sleep over Branham or Wesley "regressing", TBQH.

Agreed on Wemby's impact though, and let me clarify that I meant impact record-wise. I truly think his on-court impact is understated and, as soon as the Spurs decide to actually start winning again, you and everyone else will wonder "where have the Spurs always been". But some pieces are already here; they're just being forcefully dis-arranged in the search of another top-end talent.

I guess it's simply a matter of "how much of the Spurs' current performance do you take at face value as a serious team instead of a tanking team", and I just don't put a lot of stake in it. It's like cliff-jumping over that "historically bad defense" last year, as if Wemby wasn't going to be a one-man army on D. The team just isn't trying to win, top-to-bottom.

[Sugus]

OKC won 20ish games twice with SGA on the roster putting up roughly 24p/6a/5r over the two year span. The horror.

Exactly. And it's the same with top-end talent on tanking, or recently-tanking teams; years of shitty discussions about "empty calories" and "stats on a bad team", then as soon as the FO builds a real team around the talent, everyone switches to "OMG when did he get so good???".

See also: Suns and Devin Booker. Fox and the Kings (though I'll freely admit to being one of these people with him, I've never liked his game).

[Sugus]

Terrible plan, you get an awesome rookie and then you make it play with no PG or no team whatsoever.
Small market teams are hard I get it, but playing for Pop is a huge minus.
In the old days they had to learn ¨the system¨ so there was a learning curve but now Pop makes these kids run and shoot like headless chickens.
They need a new coach, not the arrogant woke fest that Pop is.

Who says it's terrible? Do you have the recipe for a championship-level team? Far as I'm aware, there's many roads to Rome, and none of them certain. Again, you're judging less than half of Wemby's rookie season here. I can just as easily argue that placing Wemby in a tough position makes him grow extra in a "sink or swim" environment and develop skills he wouldn't have access to if a good PG was force-feeding him every possession. It's far too early to tell the kind of impact it'll have on his game -- and seeing as he gets better and better each day, yeah, i'm not panicking here.

I don't disagree that they need a new coach as I believe in organic growth between both a team and a coaching staff, especially a team as young as the Spurs - and a coach as old as Pop. But judging a "masterplan" this early in, is just making a fool of yourself, sorry to say. It's not a master plan without a lot of steps, y'know?

[Mikeanaro]

Who says it's terrible? Do you have the recipe for a championship-level team? Far as I'm aware, there's many roads to Rome, and none of them certain. Again, you're judging less than half of Wemby's rookie season here. I can just as easily argue that placing Wemby in a tough position makes him grow extra in a "sink or swim" environment and develop skills he wouldn't have access to if a good PG was force-feeding him every possession. It's far too early to tell the kind of impact it'll have on his game -- and seeing as he gets better and better each day, yeah, i'm not panicking here.

I don't disagree that they need a new coach as I believe in organic growth between both a team and a coaching staff, especially a team as young as the Spurs - and a coach as old as Pop. But judging a "masterplan" this early in, is just making a fool of yourself, sorry to say. It's not a master plan without a lot of steps, y'know?
The record says it, 18L´s in a row is not pretty.
Yeah, the recipe is GET SOME TALENT AND ADAPT TO THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED, 2014 was a decade ago.
Ask GSW, MIA, DEN, BOS, Milwaukee, sure they are idiots and dont know shit.

How many steps? 385?
Leaving the players improvise for 20 games without a plan and Im making a fool of myself, sure...
The Sochan ¨experiment¨ make a giraffe believe its an elefant.

The man is old and out of touch, you guys act like if Pop retires there wont be another good coach and Spurs will never go deep in the playoffs, let alone win a championship.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Pop's Spurs just beat the in-season tournament champion Lakers. That means something... right?

[MultiTroll]

Pop's Spurs just beat the in-season tournament champion Lakers. That means something... right?
Sure.
The Pistons beat the 2013-14 GOAT Spurs in Game 52 en route to a 29-53 record,

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Sure.
The Pistons beat the 2013-14 GOAT Spurs in Game 52 en route to a 29-53 record,

29 wins sounds pretty sweet at this point tbh

[MultiTroll]

29 wins sounds pretty sweet at this point tbh
Surely the GOAT coachs strategy will get us there.

29 in two years, right?

[weebo]

The record says it, 18L´s in a row is not pretty.
Yeah, the recipe is GET SOME TALENT AND ADAPT TO THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED, 2014 was a decade ago.
Ask GSW, MIA, DEN, BOS, Milwaukee, sure they are idiots and dont know shit.

How many steps? 385?
Leaving the players improvise for 20 games without a plan and Im making a fool of myself, sure...
The Sochan ¨experiment¨ make a giraffe believe its an elefant.

The man is old and out of touch, you guys act like if Pop retires there wont be another good coach and Spurs will never go deep in the playoffs, let alone win a championship.

Pop is never getting fired. No way the Holt's ever do that. The problem here is that a lot of you lied to yourselves. The Spurs landed a once in a lifetime baller and all of a sudden they were PO bound. It's a young team--they were garbage last year and they're garbage this year. This is basically year 0 of the rebuild. Prior to this year, they were drafting on potential and now they have someone to build around. It's going to take time--"pounding the rock" bs. For now, you need to look at this season as an 82 game preseason. The Spurs need to see who they can keep while Wemby figures out how he fits in the NBA. If you don't have the patience to wait on a small market team to build a winning team, tune out and bandwagon back when they start winning or go jump on the Lakers bandwagon.

[exstatic]

29 wins sounds pretty sweet at this point tbh

29 wins would be a fucking disaster. This is the last chance in the Wemby era for us to have a high, self owned draft pick to get his #2 player.

[Obstructed_View]

I wouldn’t have much problems if the spurs would be competitive then pop pull players or put in stupid lineups to sabotage the games like they did last year. Instead the spurs were pile drived end to end in every single game they played this year. It’s horrible.
What games are you watching? They have given up double digit leads in more than half of their games. They were blown out by Indiana and the Clippers, but they led in almost every other game. They just run hot and cold, which young teams do.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't see what you mean. Devin has improved. Keldon is at his ceiling and has been playing consistent ball for his standard. Sochan has improved in spite of learning a new role on the go. Most of the other guys are, frankly, JAG for the Spurs' relvant long-term planning. I'm not losing sleep over Branham or Wesley "regressing", TBQH.

Agreed on Wemby's impact though, and let me clarify that I meant impact record-wise. I truly think his on-court impact is understated and, as soon as the Spurs decide to actually start winning again, you and everyone else will wonder "where have the Spurs always been". But some pieces are already here; they're just being forcefully dis-arranged in the search of another top-end talent.

I guess it's simply a matter of "how much of the Spurs' current performance do you take at face value as a serious team instead of a tanking team", and I just don't put a lot of stake in it. It's like cliff-jumping over that "historically bad defense" last year, as if Wemby wasn't going to be a one-man army on D. The team just isn't trying to win, top-to-bottom.

The Spurs added Victor to last year's team. They're worse.

[baseline bum]

29 wins would be a fucking disaster. This is the last chance in the Wemby era for us to have a high, self owned draft pick to get his #2 player.

With how shitty all the 2022 picks have developed not sure I believe this tbh

[Tyronn Lue]

29 wins would be a fucking disaster. This is the last chance in the Wemby era for us to have a high, self owned draft pick to get his #2 player.
I agree with this. As painful as it will be for Spurs fan for the team to suck all season, it will be be painful longer to suck only most of the season. Imagine Spurs had few more wins last year, Victor is somewhere else.

[HemisfairArena]

I agree with this. As painful as it will be for Spurs fan for the team to suck all season, it will be be painful longer to suck only most of the season. Imagine Spurs had few more wins last year, Victor is somewhere else.

Tanking and sucking like this,,,,,in a few years, Wemby will be somewhere else,,,,,

[ambchang]

What games are you watching? They have given up double digit leads in more than half of their games. They were blown out by Indiana and the Clippers, but they led in almost every other game. They just run hot and cold, which young teams do.

They pretty much always build up a lead and then give it up when the other team decided to get serious. Just at no point in any of the games did I think the spurs were going to win it, including the one they just won ve the lakers. There were so many wtf comments in every game that they aren’t really like a pro basketball team and I just knew the wheels will fall off at some point. Of course, they won the one game which sort of proved me wrong.

[exstatic]

They pretty much always build up a lead and then give it up when the other team decided to get serious. Just at no point in any of the games did I think the spurs were going to win it, including the one they just won ve the lakers. There were so many wtf comments in every game that they aren’t really like a pro basketball team and I just knew the wheels will fall off at some point. Of course, they won the one game which sort of proved me wrong.

Your description of “pile drived from end to end” is inaccurate, other than maybe two games. Your effort to then move the goalposts is transparent.

[ambchang]

Your description of “pile drived from end to end” is inaccurate, other than maybe two games. Your effort to then move the goalposts is transparent.
Fair. Over exaggeration on my part earlier on. The spurs were playing a very disappointing brand of ball so far this season. They are playing better with wemby at 5 and sochan back at 4, with Collins off the bench. I still want jones at PG and Braham should really come off the bench but I’m skeptical of how competitive the spurs would be. I hope to see some drastic improvements by mid/end February and wanted the sochan in the second half of last season back.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs go on big runs. That is the polar opposite of your characterization.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't see what you mean. Devin has improved. Keldon is at his ceiling and has been playing consistent ball for his standard. Sochan has improved in spite of learning a new role on the go. Most of the other guys are, frankly, JAG for the Spurs' relvant long-term planning. I'm not losing sleep over Branham or Wesley "regressing", TBQH.

Agreed on Wemby's impact though, and let me clarify that I meant impact record-wise. I truly think his on-court impact is understated and, as soon as the Spurs decide to actually start winning again, you and everyone else will wonder "where have the Spurs always been". But some pieces are already here; they're just being forcefully dis-arranged in the search of another top-end talent.

I guess it's simply a matter of "how much of the Spurs' current performance do you take at face value as a serious team instead of a tanking team", and I just don't put a lot of stake in it. It's like cliff-jumping over that "historically bad defense" last year, as if Wemby wasn't going to be a one-man army on D. The team just isn't trying to win, top-to-bottom.

I'm not sure why you think Sochan has improved. He and Devin have been worse. If they played better than last year we'd be in a much better positino, as evidenced by last game where they played well.

[MannyIsGod]

29 wins would be a fucking disaster. This is the last chance in the Wemby era for us to have a high, self owned draft pick to get his #2 player.

a fucking disaster is a hilarious way to describe a win total that is almost certainly going to be bottom 5.

[MannyIsGod]

With how shitty all the 2022 picks have developed not sure I believe this tbh

I doubt the draft this year will be total trash, but its just stupid to for the Spurs to aim for a bottom record with the flattened odds. It made sense when you have someone like Wemby but now? Who the fuck are we tanking for that a few percentage points makes a gigantic difference?

[baseline bum]

I doubt the draft this year will be total trash, but its just stupid to for the Spurs to aim for a bottom record with the flattened odds. It made sense when you have someone like Wemby but now? Who the fuck are we tanking for that a few percentage points makes a gigantic difference?

Didn't say they were going to be aiming for a top pick.

[exstatic]

a fucking disaster is a hilarious way to describe a win total that is almost certainly going to be bottom 5.

The highest lottery pick odds for position #5 is picking 7th, at 26.7%, so yeah, fucking disaster. The highest pick odds for position #2 is pick 5 at 27.8%. If you study draft pick values, the trend line drops sharply right after pick 5.

Your best odds of maximizing your pick are being as close to the top of the draft as possible. Winning an extra 8-10 games is, in fact a disaster in this context.

[Obstructed_View]

I remember a Spurs team that completely sold out to challenge the three point line. Now we see a team that sags three guys into the paint FOR NO REASON giving up uncontested threes at a historical rate.

We were led to believe that challenging three pointers and getting back on defense were pillars of Pop's coaching philosophy. Clearly that isn't the case.

[scott]

I don't see what you mean. Devin has improved. Keldon is at his ceiling and has been playing consistent ball for his standard. Sochan has improved in spite of learning a new role on the go. Most of the other guys are, frankly, JAG for the Spurs' relvant long-term planning. I'm not losing sleep over Branham or Wesley "regressing", TBQH.

Agreed on Wemby's impact though, and let me clarify that I meant impact record-wise. I truly think his on-court impact is understated and, as soon as the Spurs decide to actually start winning again, you and everyone else will wonder "where have the Spurs always been". But some pieces are already here; they're just being forcefully dis-arranged in the search of another top-end talent.

I guess it's simply a matter of "how much of the Spurs' current performance do you take at face value as a serious team instead of a tanking team", and I just don't put a lot of stake in it. It's like cliff-jumping over that "historically bad defense" last year, as if Wemby wasn't going to be a one-man army on D. The team just isn't trying to win, top-to-bottom.

lolwut?

[scott]

Just want to get on the record now how many years it is acceptable to use the excuse that we are just trying to maximize our odds of a top pick.

In 2028, when we still suck, will the Sniffers still be talking about how we just need to add that 8th lottery pick to the roster to be able to finally compete?

[Dverde]

I remember a Spurs team that completely sold out to challenge the three point line. Now we see a team that sags three guys into the paint FOR NO REASON giving up uncontested threes at a historical rate.

We were led to believe that challenging three pointers and getting back on defense were pillars of Pop's coaching philosophy. Clearly that isn't the case.

The “opponents shoot open 3 pointers” zone has been constantly used this year.

[exstatic]

Just want to get on the record now how many years it is acceptable to use the excuse that we are just trying to maximize our odds of a top pick.

In 2028, when we still suck, will the Sniffers still be talking about how we just need to add that 8th lottery pick to the roster to be able to finally compete?

I’ll be off of the tank Tank next year. I’ve said in a few threads that we’re on the OKC track, 20ish, 20ish, 40ish, contender over a four year period.

[scott]

I’ll be off of the tank Tank next year. I’ve said in a few threads that we’re on the OKC track, 20ish, 20ish, 40ish, contender over a four year period.

Appreciate calling your shot. Hope you are right. It will take more than just a draft pick though, hopefully we are ready to make some moves for some useful vets.

[MannyIsGod]

The highest lottery pick odds for position #5 is picking 7th, at 26.7%, so yeah, fucking disaster. The highest pick odds for position #2 is pick 5 at 27.8%. If you study draft pick values, the trend line drops sharply right after pick 5.

Your best odds of maximizing your pick are being as close to the top of the draft as possible. Winning an extra 8-10 games is, in fact a disaster in this context.

Would love to see your "study draft pick values" quantified, Mr. Draft pick scholar.

Acting like a relatively small percentage point drop vs. actually providing our players with proper development is whatever, but you you're flopping around for reasoning instead what else should I expect. Its clear #2 pick odds are better, but acting like its bad worse enough a few spots less than you shouldn't take into consideration the opportunity cost associated with losing culture is pretty ridiculous.

[MannyIsGod]

The 3rd quarter numbers really point to a coaching problem, IMO. A team comes in, makes adjustments, and the Spurs have no answer time and time and time again. Its incredible how consistent this is through the season.

[MannyIsGod]

Didn't say they were going to be aiming for a top pick.

I replied to you but I was agreeing with you and addressing Ex.

[Frenchfred]

Just want to get on the record now how many years it is acceptable to use the excuse that we are just trying to maximize our odds of a top pick.

In 2028, when we still suck, will the Sniffers still be talking about how we just need to add that 8th lottery pick to the roster to be able to finally compete?

before Wemby, what were the highest picks the Spurs had the past couple of years? The problem is that they waited too long to tank so ended up with a lot of mid lottery picks. Now, we have Wemby which a good start. Unfortunately, next year draft is not good but we can expect a top5 and top10 so who knows potentially two okay to good players. The Spurs need to have cap space in 2 years to go after another star. Of course, if there is disgruntled superstar (Luka ��) before, just send all the draft picks to get him.

[baseline bum]

I replied to you but I was agreeing with you and addressing Ex.

LOL my bad. Yeah not buying the tanking excuse at all this year.

[Jordan Jackson]

Would love to see your "study draft pick values" quantified, Mr. Draft pick scholar.

Acting like a relatively small percentage point drop vs. actually providing our players with proper development is whatever, but you you're flopping around for reasoning instead what else should I expect. Its clear #2 pick odds are better, but acting like its bad worse enough a few spots less than you shouldn't take into consideration the opportunity cost associated with losing culture is pretty ridiculous.

He is kind of right though. There is no amount of development that is going to turn these players into something they are not. Spurs drafted some players with deadly flaws in their games which really is a product of mediocre draft position to begin with.

If they can get a higher pick (top 3?)- they get access to better quality of talent and for cheap.

Hopefully, they can raise the value of some of these guys so that they are attractive in a trade package for a long term piece. I would love to roll the Raptors for OG Anunoby. Doubt they pick up the phone when they see Pops number though.

[gambit1990]

he won’t get fired. like i said before, it’s not even about the resume it’s about the $$$

[exstatic]

Would love to see your "study draft pick values" quantified, Mr. Draft pick scholar.

Acting like a relatively small percentage point drop vs. actually providing our players with proper development is whatever, but you you're flopping around for reasoning instead what else should I expect. Its clear #2 pick odds are better, but acting like its bad worse enough a few spots less than you shouldn't take into consideration the opportunity cost associated with losing culture is pretty ridiculous.

I don’t do draft pick analysis, because I know where to find it, and I’m not as smart as the actual analysts.

[MannyIsGod]

I don’t do draft pick analysis, because I know where to find it, and I’m not as smart as the actual analysts.

So then link the analysis that supports your steep drop off so we can see and evaluate it for ourselves instead of your not as smart as the actual analysts version of it.

[MannyIsGod]

http://nbasense.com/draft-pick-trade-value/4/jacob-goldstein-4

There's a draft value as a function of pick location. There's no big drop-off after 5 on any of the four listed there by people you admit are smarter than you, Ex. The functions area all fairly linear at that point and its not a super steep slope.

[MannyIsGod]

https://quantimschmitz.com/2023/04/02/how-valuable-is-each-nba-draft-pick/

Same shit.

I'm going to guess you saw the historical data showing that 5 has been much better than 6. Unless we expect that for some magic reason 6 is just a bad spot where 7, 8, and 9 are all better despite coming later (and since all the players available at those spots were also available at 6 we know that's not the case), that historical data is just variability and not an actual thing. There's a steep drop off early but after that its pretty level and the difference in picks isn't huge by any stretch. The trend line does not, in fact, drop sharply.

[MannyIsGod]

The gulf in that function is actually more than what it is between the 5th and the 7th record due to the flattened lotto odds as well. If you take the expected win share for a pick and then multiply it by the odds of a pick for the Xth worst record then the gap in expected win shares goes from 6 to 4. 4 win shares over an entire NBA career isn't exactly something to call a disaster (especially when Front office scouting and developmental skill are probably a larger factor).

[exstatic]

http://nbasense.com/draft-pick-trade-value/4/jacob-goldstein-4

There's a draft value as a function of pick location. There's no big drop-off after 5 on any of the four listed there by people you admit are smarter than you, Ex. The functions area all fairly linear at that point and its not a super steep slope.

Po tay to. Po tah to

https://thedatajocks.com/nba-draft-pick-values/

[MannyIsGod]

Po tay to. Po tah to

https://thedatajocks.com/nba-draft-pick-values/

Do you have a reason for believing this model is better? Did you read the article?

I'm going to be frank. I don't think you understand any of the models or why you should believe one over any of the others and are just picking the one that is convenient. Am I wrong?

[exstatic]

Do you have a reason for believing this model is better? Did you read the article?

I'm going to be frank. I don't think you understand any of the models or why you should believe one over any of the others and are just picking the one that is convenient. Am I wrong?

I referenced this model last year when posters were crying, like you this year, about tanking, but by all means, be an insulting dick about it. I thought you were above the typical ST ad hominem when you can’t rebutt. Guess not.

[MannyIsGod]

I referenced this model last year when posters were crying, like you this year, about tanking, but by all means, be an insulting dick about it. I thought you were above the typical ST ad hominem when you can’t rebutt. Guess not.

Ad hominin? You above stated you didn't understand the models lol. Regardless of you having posted it before, why do you think its better than the other ones? You're choosing it now for what reason other than its convenient? If you read the article, you see that the author states they are adding in arbitrary measures into the model. For some reason, they want to make this in a function that involves grouping picks into tiers. Why? What reason do we have to expect picks to cluster into these plateaus where you see steep drop off between picks. Why does this one analyst decide to make arbitrary changes to a simple statistical model that no other analyst has chosen?

You can't say you don't understand it and then get upset when someone says you're using shit you don't understand to make a point just because you like what it says. I don't see a reason to expect anything other than a standard exponential decay function. Thats exactly what the data shows. What would be unexpected would be some kind of a weird step at arbitrary points in the draft.