Charania: Spurs Have Exploratory Interest In Murray

[spursparker9]

Get Murray and get Nephew back in Free Agency and we are set

Old Spurs reunion!

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Too good to be true unfortunately

[timtonymanu]

Get Murray and get Nephew back in Free Agency and we are set

Old Spurs reunion!

And hire Stephen Jackson as an assistant. Get all the guys that burned bridges with us.

[baseline bum]

And hire Stephen Jackson as an assistant. Get all the guys that burned bridges with us.

Could bring back Bob Hill and make Red McCombs the owner again

[objective]

Atlanta GM is not a robot. He is not going to trade DJM back to the Spurs for less than what they traded to get him. That would be Exhibit A to the notice of termination the gm would get. They may have talks with the Spurs to up the bid on DJM, but my guess is that with Young, they still feel like they should be competing. Their roster isn't bad, but they can stomach a trade with the Lakers to get Austin Reeves or Siakum from Toronto. They will just use San Antonio to get draft picks on top of whatever players they get, but they want win now players, not a "blow it up and start over." Trading for any Spurs players not Vassel or Wemby (obviously Wemby is off limits) is not good for them. They will want legit contributors for the playoffs and whatever draft capital they can get.

The gm in charge at the time of the trade was already fired / forced to quit The rumor is that the owner and his son pushed the trade through over Travis Schlenck's objections; Schlenck stepped down 6 months after the trade and Landry took over as yes man to execute what ownership wants

Nick Resller the son isn't going to fire himself or even blame himself. The great thing about being born into wealth, privilege and opportunity is you never have to learn from your mistakes. He didn't fail, he was failed by others. And if he wants to reset on Murray, Landry will execute the best he can and if it turns out bad then he'll take the hit

[mo7888]

The gm in charge at the time of the trade was already fired / forced to quit The rumor is that the owner and his son pushed the trade through over Travis Schlenck's objections; Schlenck stepped down 6 months after the trade and Landry took over as yes man to execute what ownership wants

Nick Resller the son isn't going to fire himself or even blame himself. The great thing about being born into wealth, privilege and opportunity is you never have to learn from your mistakes. He didn't fail, he was failed by others. And if he wants to reset on Murray, Landry will execute the best he can and if it turns out bad then he'll take the hit

Great point on Schlenck..

[scott]

For those wondering where Siakam may sign, lest we forget that Sign & Trades exist. He is exerting his leverage to get the biggest payday he can this summer, whether with a cap space team like Philly or via S&T

[MannyIsGod]

And, the spurs need bridge players like smart/brogdon who can eventually be moved to get them a Holiday or Porzingis. Murray’s contract is definitely movable, he fits an immediate need, and helps resolve a potential logjam of integrating a bunch of youth over the next 5 or so years. The plan was never to actually use all those picks.

The Spurs absolutely do not need Smart on this team nor do they need someone like Brogdon. I don't get the idea that Marcus Smart is some one who has any role on the Spurs.

[vy65]

The Spurs absolutely do not need Smart on this team nor do they need someone like Brogdon. I don't get the idea that Marcus Smart is some one who has any role on the Spurs.

I wasn’t suggesting those specific players. By “bridge player” I mean someone who fills an immediate need, but can eventually be flipped in a subsequent deal for a key piece on a contending team. Like what the C’s did with Smart/Brogdon or Denver with

[MannyIsGod]

I wasn’t suggesting those specific players. By “bridge player” I mean someone who fills an immediate need, but can eventually be flipped in a subsequent deal for a key piece on a contending team. Like what the C’s did with Smart/Brogdon or Denver with

Gotcha. I don't think Smart fits that bill. Borgdon definitely is the type of player who has enough value to be a trade asset but not enough value to stick places. I do think the Spurs would be wise to acquire players of that caliber who serve as good players but also assets, but I don't think we're going to do that via trade this year due to our lack of assets currently. Do think that they should look to do that with cap space if they aren't able to use the space to land a big player, though.

[playbonner15]

pop has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and trade him unprotected Spurs picks in ‘25 and ‘27, and send them Sochan. We keep the tank rolling for a few more months, get Bronny James, which leads to signing Lebron James. Then sign Patty mills for the culture and contend.
funny if this happens and Spurs get their 6th ring :lol

[gambit1990]

Gross

what a terrible, terrible trade :lol

with the idea of moving wemby back to PF where he was worse, so he can start alongside capela who is even worse offensively than collins, and siakam, who cant shoot, at the 3?

ban-worthy post imo
defense wins championships :lobt2:

these replies are extremely shortsighted. you can easily stagger wemby & capela, especially with wemby's minutes restrictions. you can have siakam @ the 4 & wemby @ the 5 whenever you want.

capela was also best with cp3 so he'd get an offensive boost being reunited with him.

the team would be a defensive juggernaut & the best spurs team since healthy kawhi in the playoffs vs the warriors.

[BacktoBasics]

Gotcha. I don't think Smart fits that bill. Borgdon definitely is the type of player who has enough value to be a trade asset but not enough value to stick places. I do think the Spurs would be wise to acquire players of that caliber who serve as good players but also assets, but I don't think we're going to do that via trade this year due to our lack of assets currently. Do think that they should look to do that with cap space if they aren't able to use the space to land a big player, though.
He's talking concept not actual player. They were just examples of bridge players that could be used if the can is kicked down the road. He doesn't mean those guys would be good bridge players for us only that we would benefit from the idea of using guys like that at temporary bridge options.

Could be any player of that concept.

[Dejounte]

Latest From Hawks’ Insider:

Spurs Are Leading Contender At This Point In Time With Keldon As Most Likely Player Heading To Atlanta

[Proxy]

nah, for what. get him back for the contract we didn't want to give him? traded at the perfect time.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Keldon and the Toronto pick is the best I’d do. With Atlanta on the verge of collapse their picks are so off limits that DJ can go cry over the Spurs not appreciating him in another podcast if he wants. Not giving them for a semi piece.

[Dejounte]

nah, for what. get him back for the contract we didn't want to give him? traded at the perfect time.

Murray Is Signed To A Team Friendly Contract. It’s Barely A Little Over Devin’s Contract And He’s Currently Better Than Devin.

[Kurgan]

Not the biggest fan of Murray but anything is better than our dogshit PG rotation. Plus, Murray will give the starting lineup a boost in the rebounding department, an area we keep getting killed every night

[Robz4000]

Latest From Hawks’ Insider:

Spurs Are Leading Contender At This Point In Time With Keldon As Most Likely Player Heading To Atlanta

Wouldn't include Keldon in a trade for Murray tbh.

[Proxy]

Murray Is Signed To A Team Friendly Contract. It’s Barely A Little Over Devin’s Contract And He’s Currently Better Than Devin.

they're different positions, DJ aint the PG I want for Wemby til the 26-27 year. that's aside from his apparent ego, dude is a moron

[Dejounte]

Wouldn't include Keldon in a trade for Murray tbh.

You Are Much More Likely To Find Another Keldon In This Draft Than A Player Equal To Or Better Than Murray Tbh.

With Murray On Board, Players Like Zaccharie Risacher Or Ron Holland Would Make Sense On This Team. Both Of Those Guys Would Have Made Keldon Expendable Eventually If Keldon Were To Stay.

[baseline bum]

Latest From Hawks’ Insider:

Spurs Are Leading Contender At This Point In Time With Keldon As Most Likely Player Heading To Atlanta

ROFL that guy thinks the Hawks are getting their picks back and Keldon

[Robz4000]

You Are Much More Likely To Find Another Keldon In This Draft Than A Player Equal To Or Better Than Murray Tbh.

With Murray On Board, Players Like Zaccharie Risacher Or Ron Holland Would Make Sense On This Team. Both Of Those Guys Would Have Made Keldon Expendable Eventually If Keldon Were To Stay.

If you trade for Murray and keep Keldon (assuming Keldon is cool with his new 6th man role), there's still a gaping hole at starting SF that either could potentially fill. Obviously if Keldon isn't willing to remain in that role you trade him.

[RC_Drunkford]

but even better, you hope the warriors buyout cp3 this season.

SL: cp3 / dejounte / pascal / wemby / capela :hungry::hungry:

then find the right role players over the summer.

how dumb can a human be? :lmao

[gambit1990]

smh

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

how dumb can a human be? :lmao

A 50 year old who’s always injured, 3 players out of position and no spacing. What could go wrong?

[gambit1990]

how dumb can a human be? :lmao

A 50 year old who’s always injured, 3 players out of position and no spacing. What could go wrong?

you can easily stagger wemby & capela, especially with wemby's minutes restrictions. you can have siakam @ the 4 & wemby @ the 5 whenever you want.

capela was also best with cp3 so he'd get an offensive boost being reunited with him.

the team would be a defensive juggernaut & the best spurs team since healthy kawhi in the playoffs vs the warriors.
contender? no. a huge step in the right direction by winning games to keep wemby happy via with contracts that don't tie you down? YES.

[RC_Drunkford]

contender? no. a huge step in the right direction by winning games to keep wemby happy via with contracts that don't tie you down? YES.

yeah burn all your assets on washed up players 30 and over whose contracts expire in the offseason where no good free agents are available. Fuckin genius :lmao

You're not winning games with a bunch of non-shooters, 3 players playing out of position and a slow PG and C who can't guard the pick & roll. It's like having to explain basketball to a 5-year old.

[gambit1990]

yeah burn all your assets on washed up players 30 and over whose contracts expire in the offseason where no good free agents are available. Fuckin genius :lmao
oh right, because the spurs are a magnet for all the good free agents? :lol


You're not winning games with a bunch of non-shooters, 3 players playing out of position and a slow PG and C who can't guard the pick & roll. It's like having to explain basketball to a 5-year old.
you win a TON more games than the spurs are winning now. and again, this is about keeping wemby happy--which is the most important thing. he's not sticking around as long as david did being neglected of surrounding talent. even duncan leaves if he hadn't won early / if doc rivers didn't say family couldn't ride on team flights.

ALSO :lol even if my trade is such a disaster (which it isn't), the spurs still keep all their own draft picks in the trade i proposed :lmao

[TDMVPDPOY]

if trading keldon means no more hearing his stupid and1s... then do it

[Rocalcio]

i did. you called the proposed offer more expensive than what we got for him

it's not

Of course it is, it’s not because you keep shitting on these players that their objective value is reduced.

[rankingtear]

They would ask for that 27 pick back and maybe that 26 swap. Lets them avoid the doomsday scenario if Trae leaves. It has more value to them than to us. Would not do this trade but at least the FO knows DJ inside out minimize the risk that there is friction in the locker room.

[Kawhi Duncan]

Murray back here would be a MONUMENTAL mistake... He CLEARLY didn't like being here, especially when u saw his tweets throwing shade... On top of that he will not only leave as soon as he can, but he may poison Wemby's mind to bring here...

[The Truth #6]

Or the interest is bogus, and Pop is trying to help Landry drum up trade interest to help keep his job.

[exstatic]

nah, for what. get him back for the contract we didn't want to give him? traded at the perfect time.

He was a klutch client, and since he wouldn’t sign the second extension, the Spurs would have been over a barrel, with him unrestricted. They were afraid of $45M, not $25M, and would have signed him to this deal in a second, and he never would have been traded.

[Pauleta14]

Woud Murray be an improvement at the PG position, YES

Is Murray Wemby compatible? Huge doubt for me

[Dejounte]

Or the interest is bogus, and Pop is trying to help Landry drum up trade interest to help keep his job.

I Don’t Know. This Theory Doesn’t Fly Because Of The Optics For The Spurs. You Have Tre Jones, Who In His Mind, Is Happy About Finally Starting And All Of A Sudden You Hear Trade Rumors For A Point Guard Who Will For Sure Take That Spot Again From Him. It’s Bad For Chemistry To Stir Shit Up All For The Sake Of Helping Someone Else Out In The League. Pop Has Problems Of His Own With His Current Team And You Think He Has Time To Care About Others? Not Sure About That Man.

[Dejounte]

Not To Mention This Is Shams Who Reported This And The Spurs Are Rarely A Team Coming Out Of His Mouth. Too Many Downsides, Not Enough Upside For This To Be Nothing But Smoke.

[Dejounte]

This Isn’t One Of Those Years Where The Trade Deadline Would Be Your Typical “Stand Pat” By The Spurs. All Those Years They Did That It Was Because Either A) They Did Not Want To Mess Up Chemistry For Their Playoff Run Or B) They Want To Exercise More Patience For Developing Their Young Core. Since A Is Obviously Out, B Doesn’t Apply Either Because The Development Hourglass Is Mostly Out For Everyone Except Wemby (And Maybe Sochan). This Is Likely The Ceiling For Most Of Everyone Including Malaki And Tre. The Current State Of The Spurs Require Action To Steer The Spurs Back Into The Right Direction Where A Guy Like Dejounte Could Easily Raise The Ceiling For Each Player Since He Is A Point Guard Who Already Knows The System And Can Facilitate To Others.

[Mal]

Keldon and the Toronto pick is the best I’d do. With Atlanta on the verge of collapse their picks are so off limits that DJ can go cry over the Spurs not appreciating him in another podcast if he wants. Not giving them for a semi piece.

I would do it. Heck, add Graham and Charlotte pick which is gonna be 2x SRP eventually

[spurraider21]

Of course it is, it’s not because you keep shitting on these players that their objective value is reduced.
You still think those players have equal value as the picks they were selected with :lol

you’re not getting a 1 for branham right now

[The Truth #6]

I hear ya, Dejounte. I don't deny those points. I mean, if they can get him back cheaply I think they would. On the other hand, they could be wary of any drama with him. And as for Tre, I think he knows he's a backup. Losing out to Sochan and then Branham seems more frustrating.

Ultimately, I don't claim to have any specific knowledge, just speculating on various ways to look at it.

[Mugen]

12+ pages...what Point Sochan does to a mfer :lol

[Dverde]

I hope all this Spurs talk gets The Lakers to up their offer. I still see him going there or Miami.

[My Fault]

Murray would be a bird in the hand, a solid vet they might be able to get for pennies on the dollar. Topic and Collier have looked less than impressive, Castle can't shoot, pretty much leaves Dillingham as the best looking bet at PG but he's no sure thing either. Both Scoot Henderson and Amen Thompson would probably go first in this year's draft and they have both looked awful as rookies. It's a real crapshoot in the draft and if they can get their PG situation settled with Murray it allows them to take some swings on fowards with their draft picks. No one other than rascal (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=914) is saying mortgage the future for Murray. This ain't the Spurs front office that drafted Kawhi, Manu, and Tony, this is the front office that just pissed away three firsts on Sochan, Branham, and Wesley, so stupidity is thinking they shouldn't make moves for good young players on bargain contracts because let's just stockpile picks forever. If the trade is for pennies on the dollar, then I agree but I don’t feel he’s worth throwing away assets for. I generally agree with your take, I’d prefer the Spurs go for a defensive wing with their pick and worry about a point later in the draft but that Hawks pick we’d likely be giving back could be very valuable.

[lefty]

He can pass the ball to Wemby?

Yes please

[scott]

Interesting that Keldon is the one rumored to be part of a potential deal. When Keldon was viewed as a core piece of the starting 5, I thought he made the most sense to move in a trade, but I’ve actually really liked him in his bench role.

While sending Keldon out and getting DJM in does solve the PG problem, it creates a big depth problem, but as Dejounte notes it will be easier to fill that role (or the SF role in general) than it will be to fill the PG role. It is questionable that any of the PGs in this draft will ever be as good as DJM, but there are lots of SF prospects in the draft who may be as good as Keldon.

Keldon for DJM is also helpful for future cap flexibility. Even tho Keldon is on an affordable deal, those start to add up.

[LeBowen]

Great point about Thompson and Scoot, way better prospects than this year's college PGs and they look nothing special.
Can't say much about Topic, but if he can shoot he could come of the bench or even play some minutes together with Murray.
Let's not pretend that Tre is a long-term piece of the puzzle.

The main goal of the entire franchise should be maximizing Wemby's potential and development if it's not detrimental to the long-term future asset wise.
As of now they've done everything to sabotage Wemby.
Unless there's a next big thing playmaker in the upcoming draft, and I'm pretty sure there isn't, Spurs simply must get someone who's going to make this bunch of players look like an actual team.

DJ is no superstar, but he's proven to be a competent playmaker, he's improved his shooting and he's a good defender on a solid contract.
Can't ask for more.
If there's no bad blood because of the way he left, bring him back. Hawks are desperate and easy to fleece.

[RC_Drunkford]

the goal should be to put together a team capable of winning and getting to the playoffs, while the new draft picks develop in a limited role coming off the bench. Much better recipe than to have a bunch of rookies start just to lose 20 games in a row. I'd also rather keep Keldon, looking at how bad the talent level on our team is, but we will have to give up something if it happens.

[Extra Stout]

Interesting that Keldon is the one rumored to be part of a potential deal. When Keldon was viewed as a core piece of the starting 5, I thought he made the most sense to move in a trade, but I’ve actually really liked him in his bench role.

While sending Keldon out and getting DJM in does solve the PG problem, it creates a big depth problem, but as Dejounte notes it will be easier to fill that role (or the SF role in general) than it will be to fill the PG role. It is questionable that any of the PGs in this draft will ever be as good as DJM, but there are lots of SF prospects in the draft who may be as good as Keldon.

Keldon for DJM is also helpful for future cap flexibility. Even tho Keldon is on an affordable deal, those start to add up.
That would be hilarious for the Hawks to take Johnson rather than insisting upon Vassell.

[SpurSpike]

​
That would be hilarious for the Hawks to take Johnson rather than insisting upon Vassell.

Spurs should say no to both, we aren't the desperate ones here Atlanta is. Take advantage of that and offer them a decent package of salary filler and picks, take it or leave it no big deal imo. You only have to beat other teams offers and the only other team that seems to be a threat that can offer decent players and picks are the Pelicans and they have been quiet so far.

[Dejounte]

the goal should be to put together a team capable of winning and getting to the playoffs, while the new draft picks develop in a limited role coming off the bench. Much better recipe than to have a bunch of rookies start just to lose 20 games in a row. I'd also rather keep Keldon, looking at how bad the talent level on our team is, but we will have to give up something if it happens.

Don’t Say This To The “Everyone Over 27 Doesn’t Fit Our Timeline” People. People Think Trotting Out Rookies Year After Year Will Amount To Something As If Letting Them Make Mistake After Mistake Is Healthy For Their Development And That They Will Magically Learn To Be A Winning Team After A Few Years. “Trust The Process” They Say. Bullshit. Those Teams Only Started To Become Good When Those Teams Added Vets For Their Young Core To Play And Compete For Minutes With. That’s How You Destroy Lottery Talent.

[Dejounte]

You Would Think That In A “Developmental Year” Like This That All The Minutes Our Year 2 And 3 Players Is Good Experience For Their Growth But I’d Argue That It’s Been The Exact Opposite: It Has Stagnated Or Damaged Their Growth Because There Aren’t Any Vets On The Court With Them To Teach Them The Error Of Their Ways And Show Them How To Play The Right Way Instead Of Just Telling Them Like The Coaches Do.

[Kevin]

Keldon for Murray keeps the Spurs books pretty clean so they could still add another star down the road. It all comes down to draft pick compensation.

If I was the Hawks I would want KJ plus the 2025 and 2027 picks.

If I was the Spurs I'd be willing to do KJ plus the 2027 pick and one other pick. Just not sure what that other pick would be be.

[KDKSpurs24]

You Would Think That In A “Developmental Year” Like This That All The Minutes Our Year 2 And 3 Players Is Good Experience For Their Growth But I’d Argue That It’s Been The Exact Opposite: It Has Stagnated Or Damaged Their Growth Because There Aren’t Any Vets On The Court With Them To Teach Them The Error Of Their Ways And Show Them How To Play The Right Way Instead Of Just Telling Them Like The Coaches Do.

Exactly. People might laugh but we need to start taking the same approach Houston did in free agency. Adding some vets (Dejounte would be like put Vanvleet) and add an “enforcer”. It’s done pretty well for them so far except we should be much better because year 2 Wemby is gonna be so much better than Sengun is right now. Definitely a playoff team and it’ll be so much better for development. People who are talking about “fitting a timeline” have no clue because the players may be all young and have a lot of time to develop but they will never develop the right habits if they don’t have vets teaching them out to win!

[Davidicus]

This DJM trader rumor, if true, is fascinating to me as it signals what Spurs FO have concluded after 35 games:

1. Again if the interest is real, it shows that Spurs FO is ready to accelerate Wemby's timeline. Remember early Nov Manu said it will take at least 3 years to play for a championship: "Once people understand the potential, then you can add other pieces from free agency." Pop early Nov mentioned in regards to Wemby's development "I don't want to follow a roadmap because there is none." Preseason Spurs FO quotes were all about lets see what we have and then we'll adjust (mostly in regards to Wemby's development, but also sprinkles of Spurs roster, which are intertwined). Mere interest in bringing back DJM is a tell of their opinion on Wemby today vs game 1.

2. And then if the trade does in fact happen, it will be fascinating to see what they give up. The more they give up, the bigger their confidence in Wemby (although getting a steal in the trade doesnt indicate the opposite).

This trade is not in a vacuum though. It's not like the Spurs are actively shopping for borderline All-Star point guards before the trade deadline. DJM knows the system, a lot of the players, Pop, is still young, has a great contract, and is a very good point guard (we need one of those). The culture stuff I'm not worried about, because if Spurs FO is comfortable with it, then I am, because I personally believe 1. they know much more about the situation than we do, and 2. they wouldn't do anything to jeopardize Wemby's comfort level. If DJM comes at the right price, it's a low-risk situation that can help build this team up.

To echo other posters, rebuild doesn't mean we use every single draft pick we own, keep the good ones, and be super competitive by 2027. It means something like this - trading for DJM, continuing to develop the young bucks, add a piece or two each year, and be contending by 2025/6 (see Manu's quote).

I am a "Yes" to trading for DJM, because any doubts I have (which I do) would be steadied by the fact that Spurs FO chose to make the transaction. And very telling.

[rascal]

Murray would be a bird in the hand, a solid vet they might be able to get for pennies on the dollar. Topic and Collier have looked less than impressive, Castle can't shoot, pretty much leaves Dillingham as the best looking bet at PG but he's no sure thing either. Both Scoot Henderson and Amen Thompson would probably go first in this year's draft and they have both looked awful as rookies. It's a real crapshoot in the draft and if they can get their PG situation settled with Murray it allows them to take some swings on fowards with their draft picks. No one other than rascal is saying mortgage the future for Murray. This ain't the Spurs front office that drafted Kawhi, Manu, and Tony, this is the front office that just pissed away three firsts on Sochan, Branham, and Wesley, so stupidity is thinking they shouldn't make moves for good young players on bargain contracts because let's just stockpile picks forever.

I want the Spurs to keep their picks and the Atlanta picks so I don't want Murray. You aren't getting Murray unless you trade with some of those picks.

[exstatic]

Keldon for Murray keeps the Spurs books pretty clean so they could still add another star down the road. It all comes down to draft pick compensation.

If I was the Hawks I would want KJ plus the 2025 and 2027 picks.

If I was the Spurs I'd be willing to do KJ plus the 2027 pick and one other pick. Just not sure what that other pick would be be.

I’m starting to come around on the 27 pick. It’s a sneaky good move in that it’s too late to improve them enough to wreck the25 pick or the 26 swap, and it might be enough, with the Charlotte pick and the Chicago pick, plus filler, to satisfy their FO and placate their fanbase. They would get back 2 of the 3 FRPs that they sent us, plus a not terrible Chicago pick. Send them contracts to match, and none of our young players.

[Dejounte]

Exactly. People might laugh but we need to start taking the same approach Houston did in free agency. Adding some vets (Dejounte would be like put Vanvleet) and add an “enforcer”. It’s done pretty well for them so far except we should be much better because year 2 Wemby is gonna be so much better than Sengun is right now. Definitely a playoff team and it’ll be so much better for development. People who are talking about “fitting a timeline” have no clue because the players may be all young and have a lot of time to develop but they will never develop the right habits if they don’t have vets teaching them out to win!

100%. We’d All Be Laughing At The Rockets Right Now If They Were Having A Year Like Ours And Claim That They Are Headed Nowhere But Them Showing Positive Improvement As A Team (As A Result Of Having More Vets) Actually Makes Most Of Their Young Guys Look Good And There Isn’t Any Doubt Now Whether A Guy Like Sengun Is A Good Player Or Not Because They Are Having Success As A Team. Kudos To The Rockets For That. I Just Threw Up In My Mouth For Saying That.

[k830713]

https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/uSEWY93lko_lb9https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/uSEWY93lko_lb9

[exstatic]

https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/uSEWY93lko_lb9https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/uSEWY93lko_lb9

Fuck that. Give them back their 27 and the Charlotte pick, throw in the CHI pick, and ship out Cedi and Devonte for salary relief. Your trade gives up our best two picks, and by giving them assets that early, they improve quickly and it likely devalues the 27 pick.

[scott]

Dejounte is nailing it in regards to the Timeline discussion. The notion that we do nothing but make all these draft picks and have the team organically turn into something is non-sensical. Continually adding 19 and 20-year old kids to a roster full of other players who have never had any experience winning or vet leadership is a recipe for disaster and will lead to a perma-tank situation where we are always one or two years away from being one or two years away. It's easy to envision how something like that happens:

2023: "We just need to see what we have around Wemby and see him develop"
2024: "We just need to see what we have around Topic and see him develop"
2025: "We just need to see what we have around Flagg and see him develop"
2026: "We just need to see what we have around Boozer and see him develop"
2027: "We just need to see what we have around Kevin Tran and see him develop"

And so on, and so on.

As someone rightly pointed out, if Wemby has a long career with the Spurs, which we all hope he does, he'll likely go through three different main lineup evolutions around him, like Duncan did. I'd even argue that Duncan went through four lineup evolutions, it's just that the last one didn't ring and was Duncan's last season.

Duncan, DRob, Sean Elliott era
Duncan, Parker, Manu Big 3 era
Beautiful game era (while this still had the big 3, they were all in different stages of their career, and the team wasn't as reliant on those 3)
Neph, LMA era (Duncan's last season - franchise record 67 wins


Yeah, DJM doesn't fit the Wemby timeline in terms of being around for his entire career, but DJM could easily perform at a high level and be part of the first half of Wemby's career.

DJM also brings a minor connection back to the Spurs playoff years, he was a rookie in the Zaza year where we should have ringed if not for that dirty MFer. He was part of 3 Spurs play-off teams (though injured for one of them), 2 Spurs Play-In Teams, and 1 Hawks Play-Off team. We need some postseason experience on our roster. Right now, Zollins, Cedi, Doug and Devonte are our ONLY players with playoff experience, and I have them listed in the order of the most playoff games played (20, 19, 15, 6 to be exact). DJM has 21 playoff games under his belt. For that reason I also like the idea of insisting that Patty be part of the deal (95 playoff games, 1 ring). Even if Patty is just a direct replacement for Devonte, that is a huge addition to this young team.

[rascal]

Dejounte is nailing it in regards to the Timeline discussion. The notion that we do nothing but make all these draft picks and have the team organically turn into something is non-sensical. Continually adding 19 and 20-year old kids to a roster full of other players who have never had any experience winning or vet leadership is a recipe for disaster and will lead to a perma-tank situation where we are always one or two years away from being one or two years away. It's easy to envision how something like that happens:

2023: "We just need to see what we have around Wemby and see him develop"
2024: "We just need to see what we have around Topic and see him develop"
2025: "We just need to see what we have around Flagg and see him develop"
2026: "We just need to see what we have around Boozer and see him develop"
2027: "We just need to see what we have around Kevin Tran and see him develop"

And so on, and so on.

As someone rightly pointed out, if Wemby has a long career with the Spurs, which we all hope he does, he'll likely go through three different main lineup evolutions around him, like Duncan did. I'd even argue that Duncan went through four lineup evolutions, it's just that the last one didn't ring and was Duncan's last season.

Duncan, DRob, Sean Elliott era
Duncan, Parker, Manu Big 3 era
Beautiful game era (while this still had the big 3, they were all in different stages of their career, and the team wasn't as reliant on those 3)
Neph, LMA era (Duncan's last season - franchise record 67 wins


Yeah, DJM doesn't fit the Wemby timeline in terms of being around for his entire career, but DJM could easily perform at a high level and be part of the first half of Wemby's career.

DJM also brings a minor connection back to the Spurs playoff years, he was a rookie in the Zaza year where we should have ringed if not for that dirty MFer. He was part of 3 Spurs play-off teams (though injured for one of them), 2 Spurs Play-In Teams, and 1 Hawks Play-Off team. We need some postseason experience on our roster. Right now, Zollins, Cedi, Doug and Devonte are our ONLY players with playoff experience, and I have them listed in the order of the most playoff games played (20, 19, 15, 6 to be exact). DJM has 21 playoff games under his belt. For that reason I also like the idea of insisting that Patty be part of the deal (95 playoff games, 1 ring). Even if Patty is just a direct replacement for Devonte, that is a huge addition to this young team.

Not if you make good draft picks. Spurs could be getting two lottery picks this year and two next year.

The core that the Spurs won their championships with were their own draft picks with some veteran additions to that core.

[Spurminator]

Not if you make good draft picks. Spurs could be getting two lottery picks this year and two next year.

The core that the Spurs won their championships with were their own draft picks with some veteran additions to that core.

That would still be the case. What this team is missing is those "veteran additions." What recent history gives you any confidence that this FO can build a Championship team through the draft?

[NASpurs]

2027: "We just need to see what we have around Kevin Tran and see him develop"


:lol Kevin Tran is already developed. We're on HIS timeline, even with Wemby on the team.

[LeBowen]

Not if you make good draft picks. Spurs could be getting two lottery picks this year and two next year.

The core that the Spurs won their championships with were their own draft picks with some veteran additions to that core.

Noone is saying that Spurs should trade away all the assets to become a treadmill team, but people are putting way too much value on lottery picks, imo.
Giannis and Jokic won the right way. Homegrown teams with some additions.
Jamal Murray at #7 was the highest pick Bucks/Nuggets made.
On the other hand you have the Sixers and all their lottery failures. Same goes for Suns.
Then again you have Dallas and Luka being too good, too soon and them not having enough assets to improve the roster or messing it up.
Won't even mention shit franchises that can't do anything right like the Hornets or Pistons.

Spurs will have a top5 pick this year with Wemby already guaranteed to be a parennial MVP candidate.
13 total first rounders, some of them really valuable.

At some point tanking and hoarding assets becomes detrimental, one more season of this and we're entering Hornets territory.
Look at the recent drafts and count how many top10 picks actually lived up to the expectations.

It's way harder to properly evaluate talent because all the most hyped prospects are one and done, nowhere near being a finished product.
Unless you're guaranteed to strike gold like we did with Wemby, tanking is not worth it anymore.
Look at the rest of draft class. Sure, some of them will turn out to be great, but wasn't Scoot supposed to be the next Westbrook and Thompson was the next Grant Hill? What happened?

[baseline bum]

Interesting that Keldon is the one rumored to be part of a potential deal. When Keldon was viewed as a core piece of the starting 5, I thought he made the most sense to move in a trade, but I’ve actually really liked him in his bench role.

While sending Keldon out and getting DJM in does solve the PG problem, it creates a big depth problem, but as Dejounte notes it will be easier to fill that role (or the SF role in general) than it will be to fill the PG role. It is questionable that any of the PGs in this draft will ever be as good as DJM, but there are lots of SF prospects in the draft who may be as good as Keldon.

Keldon for DJM is also helpful for future cap flexibility. Even tho Keldon is on an affordable deal, those start to add up.

Seeing Topic have 4 points in his first Euroleague game and Collier having a terrible season has soured me so much on this draft that I wasn't too high on to begin with. The only PG prospect I see that I really like is Dillingham, but I could see him creeping up the board to where the Spurs maybe wouldn't get him without a top 3 pick. I see Risascher and think maybe he can be a solid role player in the mold of Batum or maybe Tayshaun Prince but ouch having to spend a top 3 pick to get him. Holland and Buzelis having disappointing years while playing in a soft league on GLeague Ignite too? Damn. Sarr looks like a nice project but not one of such talent that you can say screw the fit, take him anyways. Such a terrible year to be this bad.

[baseline bum]

That would be hilarious for the Hawks to take Johnson rather than insisting upon Vassell.

No way Spurs are giving Vassell up for Murray. That's at best a side-grade for the team. Hawks are the ones desperate to make a move since them staying the course just gives the Spurs some nice lottery picks.

[scott]

Fuck that. Give them back their 27 and the Charlotte pick, throw in the CHI pick, and ship out Cedi and Devonte for salary relief. Your trade gives up our best two picks, and by giving them assets that early, they improve quickly and it likely devalues the 27 pick.

Even if you just swapped the '25 ATL for '27 (I'd rather send them ours than theirs), I think this isn't too bad. But I agree, the '25 ATL pick should be off-limits. Of course would rather give them the CHI pick than the TOR pick, but I'm becoming okay with the TOR pick. In this deal we are keeping Keldon, which I like.

'27 FRP (unprotected) + CHI pick is what I've felt is the right value the whole time.

[scott]

Not if you make good draft picks. Spurs could be getting two lottery picks this year and two next year.

The core that the Spurs won their championships with were their own draft picks with some veteran additions to that core.

Even if you make good draft picks, they are all kids. Even if it were Scoot or a Thompson in this draft and the Spurs picked them, we'd still have to wait for them to develop. The Spurs won their championships by adding their own picks to already good teams (which is how those picks were so low to begin with). At no point did the Spurs have to rely on some kid who didn't know how to play basketball to develop for the team to be good, and that is the point. This Spurs team will be much better by building a competent team and then adding draft picks to them (potentially two this year, at least one next year).

The idea that we can do nothing other than draft and hope it works out is wishful thinking.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Even if you just swapped the '25 ATL for '27 (I'd rather send them ours than theirs), I think this isn't too bad. But I agree, the '25 ATL pick should be off-limits. Of course would rather give them the CHI pick than the TOR pick, but I'm becoming okay with the TOR pick. In this deal we are keeping Keldon, which I like.

'27 FRP (unprotected) + CHI pick is what I've felt is the right value the whole time.

Why would you be giving an unprotected pick for a mediocre player, who’s proven he’s not a difference maker? Who are you bidding against? Because it seems you’re bidding with the original DJ trade in mind and this is just wrong.

[spurraider21]

another aspect at play here is the hawks owner is a cheap fuck who probably wants to get under the tax, hence salary dumping collins for scraps

as it stands, their roster next year (before worrying about free agents or cap holds) has 163mil in salary whereas the luxury tax line is close to 172 mil. if they wanted to hang onto say, saddiq bey, that would probably put them over the tax line, on a middling roster.

could make the spurs package of expiring + picks the most attractive offer to them, as opposed to lakers offers built around hachimura/russell, both of whom are under contract beyond this year.

they also could be looking to unload deandre hunter, who has yet to begin his 4 year extension. im not saying we should get in on that, but could be something they try to do as part of a murray trade. offload extra salary whether it be hunter or capela

[scott]

No way Spurs are giving Vassell up for Murray. That's at best a side-grade for the team. Hawks are the ones desperate to make a move since them staying the course just gives the Spurs some nice lottery picks.

If the Hawks really wanted Vassell, it would have to be DJM for Devin straight up or Devin + CHI or CHA pick at most.

I think Keldon + TOR pick or a '27 unprotected (or maybe even Top 4 Protected) is probably fair value.

[spurraider21]

vassell should not be part of this discussion

[mo7888]

Even if you just swapped the '25 ATL for '27 (I'd rather send them ours than theirs), I think this isn't too bad. But I agree, the '25 ATL pick should be off-limits. Of course would rather give them the CHI pick than the TOR pick, but I'm becoming okay with the TOR pick. In this deal we are keeping Keldon, which I like.

'27 FRP (unprotected) + CHI pick is what I've felt is the right value the whole time.

If you swapped 27 for 25, you should only give them the lesser pick, virtually making it a swap in our favor.

[Mugen]

Trade for Dejounte and let him ball out for a few more seasons. Then trade him again for Trae :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

even if we draft a PG like Topic or Dillingham, it will take them at least 3 years to be above average starters. I'd much rather have Murray starting while one of them comes off the bench and if he turns into an All-Star slide Murray to the 2 and Vassell to the 3 or make a trade. Also if you have the team set, draft someone like Risacher for the SF spot and he can start on a team that functions where he can focus on 3-and-D. This team has to realize Wemby's championship window starts as soon as next season and by the 25/26 season you want to have a real chance at ringing.

[exstatic]

I think the assessment that their owner is a cheap fuck is spot on. They probably wouldn’t want either Vassell’s or even Keldon’s contract. Cedi and Devonte, plus some combination of picks gives them relief of all but $2.5M of Dejounte’s first year extension, and 100% of the rest of it.

[Davidicus]

To add on other poster's points:

Free agency is where you beat the system of draft picks and trades. We aren't adding FA's soley because we have Wemby; we have to show experienced FAs that they can win here (Manu: "Once people understand the potential, then you can add other pieces from free agency"). It's essentially the Lakers' strategy: trade draft picks for good players, that will in turn attract more good players, so 1+1=3.

If we use every single FRP and wait to be competitive in 2027, that means the FAs don't come until 2028. Not exact dates, but you get my point. There is an exponential effect here in terms of timeline + talent acquisition that cannot be ignored when you have Wemby doing what he's doing right now.

[scott]

Why would you be giving an unprotected pick for a mediocre player, who’s proven he’s not a difference maker? Who are you bidding against? Because it seems you’re bidding with the original DJ trade in mind and this is just wrong.

My personal opinion is that DJM's value is currently approximately 1/2 of what ATL paid for him, thus that is the basis of what I'd offer. Everyone is of course free to disagree.

[baseline bum]

If the Hawks really wanted Vassell, it would have to be DJM for Devin straight up or Devin + CHI or CHA pick at most.

I think Keldon + TOR pick or a '27 unprotected (or maybe even Top 4 Protected) is probably fair value.

Disagree, Devin for Dejounte straight up is a terrible deal for the Spurs. Keldon for Dejounte straight up is what I'd pay if they want a player now who would be a better fit for them. They can have the Charlotte pick back too if they need something to save face.

[scott]

If you swapped 27 for 25, you should only give them the lesser pick, virtually making it a swap in our favor.

I like that from the Spurs POV, but I'm not sure that gets the deal done (which is why I'd offer our pick over the ATL pick). But if they'd take the lesser, than yeah I'm down.

[exstatic]

My personal opinion is that DJM's value is currently approximately 1/2 of what ATL paid for him, thus that is the basis of what I'd offer. Everyone is of course free to disagree.

Keep: 2025 unprotected, 2026 unp swap
Return: CHA FRP, 2027 unprotected

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

My personal opinion is that DJM's value is currently approximately 1/2 of what ATL paid for him, thus that is the basis of what I'd offer. Everyone is of course free to disagree.

Yeah I saw your post about Vassell and picks for Murray. We have completely different opinions on DJ’s value.

My point was you still seem to refer to his original deal when perhaps you should care about who you’re bidding against right now and I don’t see anyone giving Atlanta an unprotected pick, nor do I expect them to take a pick heavy offer. They’ll look for players to shake things up because they can’t afford to tank. Spurs is the only team that can afford them that by trading their own picks back, which is probably why this rumour is out in the first place.

[scott]

Disagree, Devin for Dejounte straight up is a terrible deal for the Spurs. Keldon for Dejounte straight up is what I'd pay if they want a player now who would be a better fit for them. They can have the Charlotte pick back too if they need something to save face.

From the Spurs POV, they might value Devin over DJM, but I think DJM is a better player right now with more value around the league. Could be wrong about that, but that's my perspective on why the trade would have to work that way.

I'm not actually suggesting we give up Devin though. He's been frustrating this season because of his decision making, but I think he's forced into it by the lack of a PG or basic offensive structure. I'd like to see what he can do with his current skillset if he had a real team around him.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Keep: 2025 unprotected, 2026 unp swap
Return: CHA FRP, 2027 unprotected

That would be significantly less than 1/2 value. You'd probably have to add something like the Chicago pick or a lightly protected Spurs pick in 27 or 28 which I would definitely do.

[scott]

Yeah I saw your post about Vassell and picks for Murray. We have completely different opinions on DJ’s value.

My point was you still seem to refer to his original deal when perhaps you should care about who you’re bidding against right now and I don’t see anyone giving Atlanta an unprotected pick, nor do I expect them to take a pick heavy offer. They’ll look for players to shake things up because they can’t afford to tank. Spurs is the only team that can afford them that by trading their own picks back, which is probably why this rumour is out in the first place.

The Spurs don't have any players of value to send back to ATL, other than guys who are (or should be) off-limits, so picks is the only currency we have to compete in this trade. One unprotected FRP in 27 and one of our less valuable protected FRPs is the value that 1) I'd be willing to give up and 2) puts us over the top.

You're free to disagree, but this is what answers your question of "why"

[mo7888]

I like that from the Spurs POV, but I'm not sure that gets the deal done (which is why I'd offer our pick over the ATL pick). But if they'd take the lesser, than yeah I'm down.

I'd like DJ back, but not enough to risk the top pick in 25. I'd do 27 like ex suggests, but they can pound sand if they think they're getting potentially the better pick in 25 or 26.

[exstatic]

That would be significantly less than 1/2 value. You'd probably have to add something like the Chicago pick or a lightly protected Spurs pick in 27 or 28 which I would definitely do.

Read a pretty good analysis of swaps, and while you might strike gold, they are not used very often, and have about the value of a SRP. The CHA pick, despite the fact that it’s lottery protected and may convert to 2 SRPs, holds more value.

[spurraider21]

From the Spurs POV, they might value Devin over DJM, but I think DJM is a better player right now with more value around the league. Could be wrong about that, but that's my perspective on why the trade would have to work that way.

I'm not actually suggesting we give up Devin though. He's been frustrating this season because of his decision making, but I think he's forced into it by the lack of a PG or basic offensive structure. I'd like to see what he can do with his current skillset if he had a real team around him.
they both signed extensions in the same offseason

vassell signed for 5/135 and murray signed for 4/114

murray's deal is slightly more expensive per year, but was also widely seen as him taking a discount by opting for the extension instead of waiting for free agency

[cd98]

Would you rather have White or Murray back?

[baseline bum]

From the Spurs POV, they might value Devin over DJM, but I think DJM is a better player right now with more value around the league. Could be wrong about that, but that's my perspective on why the trade would have to work that way.

I'm not actually suggesting we give up Devin though. He's been frustrating this season because of his decision making, but I think he's forced into it by the lack of a PG or basic offensive structure. I'd like to see what he can do with his current skillset if he had a real team around him.

Another thing you gotta factor in with an Atlanta trade is the Spurs would be giving up draft position with the Atlanta picks by trading them a good player like Devin or Keldon. If the Hawks are looking at trades centered around Grimes or Hachimura Spurs could just sit back and let the lotto balls come in from Atlanta.

[scott]

I'd like DJ back, but not enough to risk the top pick in 25. I'd do 27 like ex suggests, but they can pound sand if they think they're getting potentially the better pick in 25 or 26.

I agree, that is what I am suggesting, trading out the '25 pick (meaning we keep it) and instead giving them '27. To me, unprotected '25 picks are off the table.

[vy65]

Curious what people think the actual chances are of a deal getting done. I’d think they’d be >50% considering fit, need, and ability to put a competitive package together. So for this front office, I’d put the chances of actually getting this done at below 20%

[Davidicus]

DJ is not the defender he once was. Not even close. Watch the next hawks game


I will. Quick search around the internet mentions perhaps playing alongside Tre, fans complaining about ATL defensive gameplans / coaching, and overall defensive intensity on ATL squad. I’m skeptical that’s it’s actually physical, he’s still only 27 years old.

I watched the Hawks' 2 most recent games against Orlando and Indiana. I'd recommend anyone with NBA TV go watch the Indiana game, where DJM scored 30 in 34min and guarded Haliburton for some stretches.

Offensively:
- He looks much more confident in his shots, including his 3. His 3pt %s are reflected in that: this year a career high 38.4% on 6 attempts/gm. Thats a 5.7% jump with 1.7 more attempt/gm compared to his last year in SA.
- He still makes some downright nasty plays with his combination of lateral bursts, length, and finishing.
- Contrary to certain posters, he does in fact pass the ball. Good vision, and the passes are fast and sharp.
- Contrary to certain posters, he is not a ball hog. It's just that his whole career he's had a length advantage, and is not afraid to use that advantage. Sounds like someone we know? Him + Wemby on PnR would be downright scary close the the basket. You can't leave Wemby 1:1, so Dejounte would have space and height.

Defensively:
- I don't know if it was too small a sample size, but he looks the same guys. He was never a lockdown 1-1 defender. He uses his length to make up for initial lateral quickness on ball, and his steals are pick pocket / off ball. He does not look like he's lost a step, at the ripe old age of 27.
- Felt like most of the time the opposing team was either switching him off or flat out avoiding him.
- He's 0.5 stl/game down compared to SA totals, I'd definitely chalk that up to team defense / mentality.
- Overall I think any perceived defensive drop is due to being on ATL, where they try to out-shoot everybody. They just don't value defense as much. I think he'd snap right back into place in SA with Pop on him, not to mention Wemby behind him.

[scott]

they both signed extensions in the same offseason

vassell signed for 5/135 and murray signed for 4/114

murray's deal is slightly more expensive per year, but was also widely seen as him taking a discount by opting for the extension instead of waiting for free agency

Yeah, this seems to support my thinking that DJM is considered the better player and more valued today. Vassell could most certainly eclipse Murray over time though - but only if the Spurs improve. If they stay in CHA perma-tank mode, then Vassell is going to be viewed as about as valuable as Terry Rozier.

[vy65]

An unappreciated potential aspect of this deal is the potential to bring Patty back. I worry about DJM culturally, but Patty would go a long way to smoothing that over and building another connection back to the days of the big 3. I don’t imagine he’s getting much burn in ATL and would be an upgrade over McDermott

[scott]

I watched the Hawks' 2 most recent games against Orlando and Indiana. I'd recommend anyone with NBA TV go watch the Indiana game, where DJM scored 30 in 34min and guarded Haliburton for some stretches.

Offensively:
- He looks much more confident in his shots, including his 3. His 3pt %s are reflected in that: this year a career high 38.4% on 6 attempts/gm. Thats a 5.7% jump with 1.7 more attempt/gm compared to his last year in SA.
- He still makes some downright nasty plays with his combination of lateral bursts, length, and finishing.
- Contrary to certain posters, he does in fact pass the ball. Good vision, and the passes are fast and sharp.
- Contrary to certain posters, he is not a ball hog. It's just that his whole career he's had a length advantage, and is not afraid to use that advantage. Sounds like someone we know? Him + Wemby on PnR would be downright scary close the the basket. You can't leave Wemby 1:1, so Dejounte would have space and height.

Defensively:
- I don't know if it was too small a sample size, but he looks the same guys. He was never a lockdown 1-1 defender. He uses his length to make up for initial lateral quickness on ball, and his steals are pick pocket / off ball. He does not look like he's lost a step, at the ripe old age of 27.
- Felt like most of the time the opposing team was either switching him off or flat out avoiding him.
- He's 0.5 stl/game down compared to SA totals, I'd definitely chalk that up to team defense / mentality.
- Overall I think any perceived defensive drop is due to being on ATL, where they try to out-shoot everybody. They just don't value defense as much. I think he'd snap right back into place in SA with Pop on him, not to mention Wemby behind him.

I'd also be curious if the defensive assignments he is tasked with as SG in ATL are different than those as the PG in SA. He has the disadvantage of being the guard opposite of a defensive liability in Tre versus being opposite of Devin who is more capable on D.

[Davidicus]

Another thing you gotta factor in with an Atlanta trade is the Spurs would be giving up draft position with the Atlanta picks by trading them a good player like Devin or Keldon. If the Hawks are looking at trades centered around Grimes or Hachimura Spurs could just sit back and let the lotto balls come in from Atlanta.

I disagree. For one, Vassell and Wemby are untouchable. Anyone else (Keldon really - Sochan just not a good fit) could give ATL a short-term boost, but I don't see them greatly increasing their competitiveness into 2025 and drops off 26 and 27. The goal is Atlanta keeps fighting the next couple of years and then craters with Trae ready to move on.

[Davidicus]

I'd also be curious if the defensive assignments he is tasked with as SG in ATL are different than those as the PG in SA. He has the disadvantage of being the guard opposite of a defensive liability in Tre versus being opposite of Devin who is more capable on D.

Yes, this definitely is a large factor. Trae is averaging 36min/game, thats #8 in the league. Guess who's guarding the better player on defense? Lol

[scott]

Just in case anyone was hoping for the full reunion, you can forget about it. Kawhi just extended with the Clippers, and Paul George is likely to do so as well.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I watched the Hawks' 2 most recent games against Orlando and Indiana. I'd recommend anyone with NBA TV go watch the Indiana game, where DJM scored 30 in 34min and guarded Haliburton for some stretches. Offensively: - He looks much more confident in his shots, including his 3. His 3pt %s are reflected in that: this year a career high 38.4% on 6 attempts/gm. Thats a 5.7% jump with 1.7 more attempt/gm compared to his last year in SA. - He still makes some downright nasty plays with his combination of lateral bursts, length, and finishing. - Contrary to certain posters, he does in fact pass the ball. Good vision, and the passes are fast and sharp. - Contrary to certain posters, he is not a ball hog. It's just that his whole career he's had a length advantage, and is not afraid to use that advantage. Sounds like someone we know? Him + Wemby on PnR would be downright scary close the the basket. You can't leave Wemby 1:1, so Dejounte would have space and height. Defensively: - I don't know if it was too small a sample size, but he looks the same guys. He was never a lockdown 1-1 defender. He uses his length to make up for initial lateral quickness on ball, and his steals are pick pocket / off ball. He does not look like he's lost a step, at the ripe old age of 27. - Felt like most of the time the opposing team was either switching him off or flat out avoiding him. - He's 0.5 stl/game down compared to SA totals, I'd definitely chalk that up to team defense / mentality. - Overall I think any perceived defensive drop is due to being on ATL, where they try to out-shoot everybody. They just don't value defense as much. I think he'd snap right back into place in SA with Pop on him, not to mention Wemby behind him.



Thank you for this. And please post more often!

[VBM]

I worry about DJM culturally, but Patty would go a long way to smoothing that over and building another connection back to the days of the big 3.

Talent >>> culture. Winning goes a long way toward breeding good culture. We've got enough nice guys/good soldiers on the team already. If Wemby's mindset could be swayed so easily by a guy like DJM, then he doesn't have a true superstar mentality.

[SpurSpike]

Its really too bad we cant trade Collins because of him signing that late extension. I think he would fit what Atlanta wants, they could use a big that can stretch the floor. We seem to be playing better without him anyways.

[Splits]

100%. We’d All Be Laughing At The Rockets Right Now If They Were Having A Year Like Ours And Claim That They Are Headed Nowhere But Them Showing Positive Improvement As A Team (As A Result Of Having More Vets) Actually Makes Most Of Their Young Guys Look Good And There Isn’t Any Doubt Now Whether A Guy Like Sengun Is A Good Player Or Not Because They Are Having Success As A Team. Kudos To The Rockets For That. I Just Threw Up In My Mouth For Saying That.

wHAT tHE fUCK iS wRONG wITH yOUR cAPSLOCK?

[Leetonidas]

wHAT tHE fUCK iS wRONG wITH yOUR cAPSLOCK?

He's channelling them Instagram baller vibes to manifest the trade tbh

[exstatic]

Its really too bad we cant trade Collins because of him signing that late extension. I think he would fit what Atlanta wants, they could use a big that can stretch the floor. We seem to be playing better without him anyways.

Supposedly, their owner is cheap, and doesn’t want salary, anyways. Fortunately, we kept some ending contract veterans around for trade purposes. Cedi/Devonte works perfectly.

[vy65]

Not a wojbomb, but maybe some woj-rifle fire

1745176748482756929

[ginobilized]

DJM would help this team communicate a LOT better, the more I think about it the more I like it. There's little leadership experience out there.

Elite passing could come from another position down the road, like a future SF. Rim-running shot-blocking power forward with a 3ball and we'd be getting somewhere.

[spurraider21]

a point i hadnt considered is that murray's contract has a 15% trade kicker

his deal would be closer to 4/130 as opposed to 4/114

[scott]

Trades are like the only thing Brian Wright is good at. Let's go, get it done!

[TD 21]

Johnson doesn't make much sense for the Hawks. Would they immediately look to re-route him for something that does? Or prefer him to paying Bey?

The Spurs were rumored interested in the latter in the '20 draft, but he supposedly wants $20M annually and is basically a more established Champagnie.

Maybe the Spurs would be fine including Johnson to lessen the draft capital and because he'd have less on ball time with Murray.

Plus, this draft has plenty of SF's projected in the top 10.

[Seventyniner]

If the Hawks are really just trying to cut salary they might insist on including Capela to reduce their 2024-2025 salary commitment. They also might be interested in cost controlled players for the next few years like Champ and Bassey, and the Spurs trading for Dejounte would make Wesley and Branham expendable who also are under contract for peanuts for the next couple of years.

The point of this would be to tear things down while they still control their own pick this summer and try to rebound as quickly as possible in free agency, while getting back at least some draft capital (perhaps their own 2027 pick back, or one/both of the CHI/TOR picks, and as many seconds as they want). Trading Dejounte and Capela for expirings would give them about $27M in cap space this summer, though they would have to renounce every single cap hold.

[Ignazzz]

a point i hadnt considered is that murray's contract has a 15% trade kicker

his deal would be closer to 4/130 as opposed to 4/114

good reason to make him happy in San Antonio ;)

[Spurminator]

https://y.yarn.co/b9fac8da-8d93-422b-9af1-6820d28e2684_text.gif

[Phenomanul]

Johnson doesn't make much sense for the Hawks. Would they immediately look to re-route him for something that does? Or prefer him to paying Bey?

The Spurs were rumored interested in the latter in the '20 draft, but he supposedly wants $20M annually and is basically a more established Champagnie.

Maybe the Spurs would be fine including Johnson to lessen the draft capital and because he'd have less on ball time with Murray.

Plus, this draft has plenty of SF's projected in the top 10.

Murray and Keldon are best buds... retaining Keldon to ensure good comradery in the locker room can only be synergistic. They will hit the ground running.

[spurraider21]

1745192605963391120

kuminga has intrigue, future warriors picks could actually be tasty, and CP3 fits the bill of an expiring player while also not being useless on the floor

[vy65]

1745192605963391120

kuminga has intrigue, future warriors picks could actually be tasty, and CP3 fits the bill of an expiring player while also not being useless on the floor

ATL: we like the fit with Dejounte and Trae Young
GSW: hold my beer …

[scott]

I thought you couldn't trade an injured player? How long is Paul expected to be out for?

[spurraider21]

ATL: we like the fit with Dejounte and Trae Young
GSW: hold my beer …
:lol... but Steph is actually a demon off-ball. Trae just cant do it

[DAF86]

Why is this thread so active? Dejounte isn't even close to talented enough to put up with the bullshit and drama he would bring and the money he would demand.

[exstatic]

1745192605963391120

kuminga has intrigue, future warriors picks could actually be tasty, and CP3 fits the bill of an expiring player while also not being useless on the floor

That would be the end of Klay in GS.

[exstatic]

Why is this thread so active? Dejounte isn't even close to talented enough to put up with the bullshit and drama he would bring and the money he would demand.

He’s already signed an extension for 4 years, starting at $25M and increasing to $31.6M the last year. He’s totally worth that money.

[DAF86]

Nah, he not.

[J_Paco]

Why is this thread so active? Dejounte isn't even close to talented enough to put up with the bullshit and drama he would bring and the money he would demand.

Right, DeJounte is better than any current guard/wing on the Spurs but he's also proven to be a bit of a headcase. Plus, didn't he just 'badmouth' our organization just last season so much so that everyone was upset about it?

And that is to say nothing about him being nearly in his 30's (he'll be 28 in September), plus is gonna want a massive extension (which was said previously the Spurs hesitant to offer him).

So with all that said, I'd rather continue on with Jones, Branham, Wesley (please start playing him more, Pop) and whatever future guards we could acquire (through the draft).

Weren't y'all the same people that said any team with DeJounte as it's best player (or second best with Victor here) isn't going very far?

[J_Paco]

He’s already signed an extension for 4 years, starting at $25M and increasing to $31.6M the last year. He’s totally worth that money.


I didn't realize that Atlanta already gave him his extension. Still, I would rather keep the cap flexibility over spending on a guy that doesn't really raise the team's ceiling much.

[poopbox]

Osman , Doug, Branham, and Keldon. Arguably 4 of the 10 worst defenders in basketball in one lineup :lol

[Dejounte]

Why is this thread so active? Dejounte isn't even close to talented enough to put up with the bullshit and drama he would bring and the money he would demand.

Maybe Because People Are Free To Talk About Whatever The Hell They Want Tbh.

[exstatic]

I didn't realize that Atlanta already gave him his extension. Still, I would rather keep the cap flexibility over spending on a guy that doesn't really raise the team's ceiling much.

We have no cap flexibility after this summer, and that isn’t even a max slot. I’d rather get DJ than sell cap room for second rounders one last time. Any competent PG raises our ceiling.

[poopbox]

Duren just ran Barlow over:lol

[J_Paco]

We have no cap flexibility after this summer, and that isn’t even a max slot. I’d rather get DJ than sell cap room for second rounders one last time. Any competent PG raises our ceiling.

Sure, but why not use the cap space on a guy that could raise our ceiling more than DeJounte?

PG is the most pressing need, but it isn't the only need (3-and-D wing defender is another) that the team needs. They'll have picks and cap space to try and find a better long-term fit at PG.

Everyone in the fanbase is extremely impatient, yes, I know this season has been dogshit, and willing to buy on a guy that previously did want to be here. Remember, the Spurs sold high on DeJounte partly because he didn't want to sign another extension with the Spurs.

No point in bringing back a possible malcontent.

[Dejounte]

Sure, but why not use the cap space on a guy that could raise our ceiling more than DeJounte?

PG is the most pressing need, but it isn't the only need (3-and-D
wing defender is another) that the team needs. They'll have picks and cap space to try and find a better long-term fit at PG.


Everyone in the fanbase is extremely impatient, yes, I know this season has been dogshit, and willing to buy on a guy that previously did want to be here. Remember, the Spurs sold high on DeJounte partly because he didn't want to sign another extension with the Spurs.

No point in bringing back a possible malcontent.

Exstatic Just Said There Will Be No Player Attainable With The Cap Space They Have Left. So You Want To Sit On It For The Sake Of Sitting On It.

[exstatic]

Sure, but why not use the cap space on a guy that could raise our ceiling more than DeJounte?

PG is the most pressing need, but it isn't the only need (3-and-D wing defender is another) that the team needs. They'll have picks and cap space to try and find a better long-term fit at PG.

Everyone in the fanbase is extremely impatient, yes, I know this season has been dogshit, and willing to buy on a guy that previously did want to be here. Remember, the Spurs sold high on DeJounte partly because he didn't want to sign another extension with the Spurs.

No point in bringing back a possible malcontent.

Who? Who raises our ceiling more than DJ, AND WILL SIGN HERE?

[DAF86]

Maybe Because People Are Free To Talk About Whatever The Hell They Want Tbh.

You Don't Say. Maybe That's Also Why I Wrote What I Wrote, Tbh.

[J_Paco]

Exstatic Just Said There Will Be No Player Attainable With The Cap Space They Have Left. So You Want To Sit On It For The Sake Of Sitting On It.

They can easily move Keldon's deal to create more space, but I'm more against reacquiring DeJounte then anything. He clearly wanted to go to a bigger market with more (possible exposure), neither of which the Spurs were/are going to provide.

And you mean that there isn't a better player than DeJounte available with the remaining cap space.

Many of you are building this 'reunion' up to eventually be disappointed. I'll be glad if/when it doesn't happen and Pop continues to start Tre Jones.

[baseline bum]

Sure, but why not use the cap space on a guy that could raise our ceiling more than DeJounte?

PG is the most pressing need, but it isn't the only need (3-and-D wing defender is another) that the team needs.

Anunoby will re-up with New York and Quickley is restricted so that kills free agency for this team unless you have a hard-on for Malik Monk. Think I'd much rather have Dejounte than him.

[spurraider21]

He’s already signed an extension for 4 years, starting at $25M and increasing to $31.6M the last year. He’s totally worth that money.
15% trade kicker to be factored in

[J_Paco]

Who? Who raises our ceiling more than DJ, AND WILL SIGN HERE?

I'm not scouring the future free-agency market to find out, sorry. We've already seen where having DeJounte as top 2 player on a team gets you (jn the play-in tournament). Both in San Antonio and Atlanta.

I get that people want immediate improvement, which DeJounte can provide, but I'd rather continue to build through the draft and try to package Keldon + future 1st round pick down the road.

[spurraider21]

Anunoby will re-up with New York and Quickley is restricted so that kills free agency for this team unless you have a hard-on for Malik Monk. Think I'd much rather have Dejounte than him.
monk or dejounte is a legit question mark for our team as far as fit, but dejounte is a bird in the hand. not like spurs are the only team that will be pursuing monk. but if you trade for dejounte, he's all yours

murray also has a longer track record of being a good player. he does need to go back to trying hard on defense.

[exstatic]

They can easily move Keldon's deal to create more space, but I'm more against reacquiring DeJounte then anything. He clearly wanted to go to a bigger market with more (possible exposure), neither of which the Spurs were/are going to provide.

And you mean that there isn't a better player than DeJounte available with the remaining cap space.

Many of you are building this 'reunion' up to eventually be disappointed. I'll be glad if/when it doesn't happen and Pop continues to start Tre Jones.

OK, so you think there is a team that wants Keldon, and can absorb him into cap space. We’ll stipulate that.

WHO IS BETTER THAN DJ, AND WILL SIGN HERE? Still waiting on an answer to that.

[Dejounte]

They can easily move Keldon's deal to create more space, but I'm more against reacquiring DeJounte then anything. He clearly wanted to go to a bigger market with more (possible exposure), neither of which the Spurs were/are going to provide.

And you mean that there isn't a better player than DeJounte available with the remaining cap space.

Many of you are building this 'reunion' up to eventually be disappointed. I'll be glad if/when it doesn't happen and Pop continues to start Tre Jones.

Your Plan Is To Be Five Years Away From Being Five Years Away. That’s No Plan. That’s A Prayer.

[spurraider21]

OK, so you think there is a team that wants Keldon, and can absorb him into cap space. We’ll stipulate that.

WHO IS BETTER THAN DJ, AND WILL SIGN HERE? Still waiting on an answer to that.
austin reaves tbh

[DAF86]

Who? Who raises our ceiling more than DJ, AND WILL SIGN HERE?

It isn't as simple as "who's available now that's better than Dejounte?", the question is "who could be available in the next 4 years and we wouldn't be able to sign becuase of the DJ contract?".

[J_Paco]

Anunoby will re-up with New York and Quickley is restricted so that kills free agency for this team unless you have a hard-on for Malik Monk. Think I'd much rather have Dejounte than him.

Why give up assets and cap space for a guy that doesn't raise the team's ceiling beyond the play - in tournament (contention)?

Are we that desperate to bring back a possible malcontent that is only two years away from 30?

What happened to 'findjng talent that fits Victor's timeline' yadda, yadda, yadda? I guess the fans aren't ready to take their lumps (short or long - term) and that overly nervous that Victor will eventually bail.

I'm here (as a fan of the Spurs) win or lose, but bring back DeJounte is hitting the panic button, IMO. I might be wrong, he comes back and the team takes off (not likely) but I highly doubt it.

[baseline bum]

I'm not scouring the future free-agency market to find out, sorry.

Then it's pretty stupid to say you want to save capspace for this FA class

[J_Paco]

Your Plan Is To Be Five Years Away From Being Five Years Away. That’s No Plan. That’s A Prayer.

I don't have a 'plan.' LOL

I'm a passive observer just like you and everyone else on ST.

The team needs to be shrewd and calculated with how they build this team. Unfortunately, they waited too long to begin their 'tank' and don't have high - end prospects around Wemby. (Not that that guarantees success since Detroit has many more top 10 picks on their roster, yet are the worst team in the league.)

Again, being bad success and not having (or playing) a 2nd PG is/was very dumb, short sighted by Pop/the front-office.

[Dejounte]

Players Who Will Earn More Per Year Than Murray:
Barrett
Wiggins
Herro
Poole
Jerami Grant

Players Who Will Be Earning Around What Dejounte Is Earning
Draymond Green
Vassell
Jaden McDaniels

Murray Is Arguably Better Than Most Of These Players And At Worst On The Same Level As Them. His Contract Is A Bargain And People Are Letting Their Feelings Blind Them From Being Sold On The Spurs Getting A Good Player.

[baseline bum]

Why give up assets and cap space for a guy that doesn't raise the team's ceiling beyond the play - in tournament (contention)?

Are we that desperate to bring back a possible malcontent that is only two years away from 30?

What happened to 'findjng talent that fits Victor's timeline' yadda, yadda, yadda? I guess the fans aren't ready to take their lumps (short or long - term) and that overly nervous that Victor will eventually bail.

I'm here (as a fan of the Spurs) win or lose, but bring back DeJounte is hitting the panic button, IMO. I might be wrong, he comes back and the team takes off (not likely) but I highly doubt it.

Murray fits Victor's timeline fine. That's ridiculous to think this team should be a bunch of 20 year olds. Would have a young above average starting point guard locked up so they could focus on getting a SF with their picks and Murray wouldn't cost the Spurs their truly valuable assets (the 25 picks and the 26 swap). LOL let's not bring a guy in who could elevate this team from ~15 wins to the play in?

[J_Paco]

Then it's pretty stupid to say you want to save capspace for this FA class

Never said specifically for this class, friend.

I said future cap flexibility, but thanks for being so pedantic and uptight over a differing opinon.

Let me know when you, Exstatic, and DeJounte will be acquiring those front-office jobs.

[Dejounte]

I don't have a 'plan.' LOL

I'm a passive observer just like you and everyone else on ST.

The team needs to be shrewd and calculated with how they build this team. Unfortunately, they waited too long to begin their 'tank' and don't have high - end prospects around Wemby. (Not that that guarantees success since Detroit has many more top 10 picks on their roster, yet are the worst team in the league.)

Again, being bad success and not having (or playing) a 2nd PG is/was very dumb, short sighted by Pop/the front-office.

Preferred Plan. Approach. Strategy. What You’d Like The Spurs To Do. It’s Like I Said Earlier In This Thread. It’s A Bad Plan For The Spurs To Pray For Their Draft Picks To Become Foundation Pieces Without Surrounding Them With Vets Like Murray Who Will Support Their Development.

[Dejounte]

Never said specifically for this class, friend.

I said future cap flexibility, but thanks for being so pedantic and uptight over a differing opinon.

Let me know when you, Exstatic, and DeJounte will be acquiring those front-office jobs.

No One Is Pretending To Be A GM. You’re On Equal Plane As Us And Shared Your Own Preference On What You’d Like The Spurs To Do.

[DAF86]

Players Who Will Earn More Per Year Than Murray:
Barrett
Wiggins
Herro
Poole
Jerami Grant

Players Who Will Be Earning Around What Dejounte Is Earning
Draymond Green
Vassell
Jaden McDaniels

Murray Is Arguably Better Than Most Of These Players And At Worst On The Same Level As Them. His Contract Is A Bargain And People Are Letting Their Feelings Blind Them From Being Sold On The Spurs Getting A Good Player.

I'm all for letting feelings aside in favour of a good basketball decision, but Murray isn't it, tbh. The dude is as mentally flaky as they come. I'm not sure I want to build around Wemby with that level of mental inestability as one of my cornerstones, tbh. Specially when his offensive game is so fucking mid.

[J_Paco]

Murray fits Victor's timeline fine. That's ridiculous to think this team should be a bunch of 20 year olds. Would have a young above average starting point guard locked up so they could focus on getting a SF with their picks and Murray wouldn't cost the Spurs their truly valuable assets (the 25 picks and the 26 swap). LOL let's not bring a guy in who could elevate this team from ~15 wins to the play in?


Obviously, you don't want a roster that consists of only 20 - something year olds since that is what we have this season.

I also don't want to spend on a guy that clearly no longer wanted to be here, could easily become a malcontent if brought back, and doesn't raise the team's ceiling beyond 'treadmill team.'

DeJounte is like Derrick White, where he'd be much better suited as the 3rd or 4th best player/option on a team, but y'all want him to comeback here and be our 2nd best player. Not thanks.

Sign (better) team-oriented veterans & use your likely top 5 pick on the PG of the future. Which I think is the Spurs actual course of action to the disappointment of y'all.

[J_Paco]

No One Is Pretending To Be A GM. You’re On Equal Plane As Us And Shared Your Own Preference On What You’d Like The Spurs To Do.



Most of ST pretends to be a GM, my friend. Or a head coach, sports psychologist, etc.

[Dejounte]

Obviously, you don't want a roster that consists of only 20 - something year olds since that is what we have this season.

I also don't want to spend on a guy that clearly no longer wanted to be here, could easily become a malcontent of brought back, and doesn't raise the team's ceiling beyond 'treadmill team.'

DeJounte is like Derrick White, where he'd be much better suited as the 3rd or 4th best player/option on a team, but y'all want him to comeback here and be our 2nd best player. Not thanks.

Sign (better) team-oriented veterans & use your likely top 5 pick on the PG of the future. Which I think is the Spurs actual course of action to the disappointment of y'all.

So Do You Actually Believe The Spurs Won’t Get At Least A Sense Of If Murray Wants To Be Here Or Not Before Trading For Him? Come On, That’s Common Sense And Shouldn’t Be Even Part Of The Equation.

Murray Wouldn’t Be The Second Best, That Would Presumably Be Vassell As The Spurs Have Been Hoping He Continues His Upward Trajectory.

Murray Won’t Even Be Paid As A Top Three Guy So I Am Confused Why This Is The Crux Of Your Argument.

[exstatic]

It isn't as simple as "who's available now that's better than Dejounte?", the question is "who could be available in the next 4 years and we wouldn't be able to sign becuase of the DJ contract?".

This is the last summer we will have cap room. It’s now or never. Who is better, this summer,who will sign here?

[J_Paco]

I'm all for letting feelings aside in favour of a good basketball decision, but Murray isn't it, tbh. The dude is as mentally flaky as they come. I'm not sure I want to build around Wemby with that level of mental inestability as one of my cornerstones, tbh. Specially when his offensive game is so fucking mid.

Right, DeJounte would be a 3 - 4 year stop gap (with the possibilty of wanting out, again) and not a long - term solution.

These guys are acting like he didn't want out of town and was willing to sign that extension that he got from Atlanta here (he wasn't).

[exstatic]

Why give up assets and cap space for a guy that doesn't raise the team's ceiling beyond the play - in tournament (contention)?

Are we that desperate to bring back a possible malcontent that is only two years away from 30?

What happened to 'findjng talent that fits Victor's timeline' yadda, yadda, yadda? I guess the fans aren't ready to take their lumps (short or long - term) and that overly nervous that Victor will eventually bail.

I'm here (as a fan of the Spurs) win or lose, but bring back DeJounte is hitting the panic button, IMO. I might be wrong, he comes back and the team takes off (not likely) but I highly doubt it.

We made the play in with him as our #1. Stop with the drama, and just admit that you don’t like him.

[DAF86]

This is the last summer we will have cap room. It’s now or never. Who is better, this summer,who will sign here?

Didn't you get my point? It isn't as simole as "this is the last summer we will have cap space, let's just spend now". You have a lot of good contracts that would be easy to move if a good opportunity arises. Adding Dejounte's to the mix might make things harder in that regard.

[DAF86]

Right, DeJounte would be a 3 - 4 year stop gap (with the possibilty of wanting our, again) and not a long - term solution.

These guys are acting like he didn't want out of town and was willing to sign that extension that he got from Atlanta here (he wasn't).

I don't care about any of that. I just think he isn't that good, tbh.

[DAF86]

Dejounte is a flawed offensive player that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. You would need to build the rest of the starting lineup around his limitations. For example, a trio of Murray, Sochan and Wemby will never get you anywhere close to real contention. Just not enough shooting on that lineup.

I'd much rather draft Dillingham or Sheppard and spend the cap space on folks that can actually shoot, while keeping enough short term flexibility to jump on an oportunity to get a real second option if the chance presents itself, tbh.

[Frenchfred]

This is the last summer we will have cap room. It’s now or never. Who is better, this summer,who will sign here?

how come?

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio_spurs/

[J_Paco]

We made the play in with him as our #1. Stop with the drama, and just admit that you don’t like him.


I definitely don't dislike DeJounte. Never made that statement before or after his time in San Antonio.

Not even after he went on Stephen Jackson's podcast and 'dissed' the organization. I actually root from him, Derrick, Lonnie and most other former Spurs (not named Kawhi Leonard).

I just think that ship has sailed and we know who & what DeJounte is at this point

Would he be an upgrade over any current Spurs' PG? Absolutely, but you are taking major risks of they were to reacquire him.

He has shown 'diva' tendencies, didn't want to sign an extension here and I doubt he'd be okay with a pecking order that makes him 3rd (if not 4 if the were to keep Keldon to acquire him).

Plus, you are committing $28 - $30 million (with an apparent 15% trade kicker) to a near 30 PG, who best seasons are likely behind him.

Remember, PG usually have a sharp decline after 30 and his time in Atlanta has shown us that still isn't great off-ball (far ore effective ball in his hand).

I just don't see how bringing back a volatile personality (ask ST's DeJounte that has all the receipts) would be good for such a young, inexperienced group.

There are other avenues to acquire another PG, but my preferred method is through the draft.

They could also try to get one from a PG - rich team like Orlando (Anthony, Black, Fultz) or Indiana (McConnell, Nembhard).

I'm not high or potentially bring him back to San Antonio, but y'all are. Point blank.

No need for insults or questioning my reasons why.

[baseline bum]

Obviously, you don't want a roster that consists of only 20 - something year olds since that is what we have this season.

I also don't want to spend on a guy that clearly no longer wanted to be here, could easily become a malcontent if brought back, and doesn't raise the team's ceiling beyond 'treadmill team.'

DeJounte is like Derrick White, where he'd be much better suited as the 3rd or 4th best player/option on a team, but y'all want him to comeback here and be our 2nd best player. Not thanks.

Sign (better) team-oriented veterans & use your likely top 5 pick on the PG of the future. Which I think is the Spurs actual course of action to the disappointment of y'all.

So basically only trade for say SGA since anyone else would only be able to take this team to maybe 40 wins next year? Dejounte would be brought here to be a third option most likely, or fourth if the Spurs can hit on their draft pick this summer, I don't know what you're complaining about here. Murray elevates this team a lot giving them another desperately needed scorer who plays passable defense and would allow the team to move Tre to his rightful position as a backup PG where he'd be one of the best in the league. And I'm still keeping the Atlanta lottery picks in 25 and 26 to see if we can luck into Cooper Flagg, Cameron Boozer, or AJ Dybantsa or trade them for a legit star.

[baseline bum]

Right, DeJounte would be a 3 - 4 year stop gap (with the possibilty of wanting out, again) and not a long - term solution.

These guys are acting like he didn't want out of town and was willing to sign that extension that he got from Atlanta here (he wasn't).

He wasn't willing to sign a $16 million a year extension, the max the Spurs could have offered under the CBA at the time, and he would have been a moron to do so. Would you take a pay cut at work?

[J_Paco]

I don't care about any of that. I just think he isn't that good, tbh.

Fair enough.

I'm higher on him as player, but we both agree he'd be a bad fit back with San Antonio .

[Dejounte]

Dejounte is a flawed offensive player that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. You would need to build the rest of the starting lineup around his limitations. For example, a trio of Murray, Sochan and Wemby will never get you anywhere close to real contention. Just not enough shooting on that lineup.

I'd much rather draft Dillingham or Sheppard and spend the cap space on folks that can actually shoot, while keeping enough short term flexibility to jump on an oportunity to get a real second option if the chance presents itself, tbh.

I’m Happy You Like Spreading Misinformation Because Murray Has Been Shooting The Same Percentage From 3 As Vassell This Season. Both Are At 81-211 3PT FGA. Murray Is Also Shooting The 3 Better Than Anunoby On More Attempts And The Same Percentage As Anthony Edwards.

Murray’s USG Rates As Way Below Wemby’s So If You Think Wemby Doesn’t Have The Ball In His Hands Enough, Then You Don’t Really Believe That Dj Has The Ball In His Hands A Lot. Murray’s USG Compares To Guys Like LaVine, Middleton, And Giddey… Guys Who Aren’t Even The Primary Playmaker On Their Teams. So That’s Another Bit Of Misinformation.

[J_Paco]

He wasn't willing to sign a $16 million a year extension, the max the Spurs could have offered under the CBA at the time, and he would have been a moron to do so. Would you take a pay cut at work?

Not sure what crawled up your ass and died.

Sure, the guy that went on a podcast and mostly derided his time in San Antonio (as an active player) only wanted out because of the monetary difference in pay.

It wasn't that he wanted brighter lights and a bigger market too.

He refused to sign the extension and also requested a trade. He could refused the extension and re-signed in the off-season if he actually wanted to remain here. He didn't because he not only wanted the raise in salary but also a change in scenery, which his interview on Stephen Jackson"s podcast made abundantly clear.

[Seventyniner]

Another thing Dejounte would bring the Spurs is ball safety. He was pretty bad about turning the ball over early in his career and he became very good at it before being traded. This year his turnover % is 10.3%, a sterling number for a guard with a usage rate of 24.5%.

Tonight he is 5-6 from three with 4 assists and 1 turnover with 5 minutes left against the Sixers.

[Frenchfred]

I have the feeling that the Spurs are just going to stay put, get a high pick (theirs) and hope to get another one from Toronto. Probably sign one or two vets and probably end up in the lottery again next year hoping to get Cooper Flag with their pick and Atlanta's. By then (2025), they'll have a better idea what to do with Sochan, Branham and Wesley. Collins will have an expiring contract so could be moved.

[J_Paco]

So basically only trade for say SGA since anyone else would only be able to take this team to maybe 40 wins next year? Dejounte would be brought here to be a third option most likely, or fourth if the Spurs can hit on their draft pick this summer, I don't know what you're complaining about here. Murray elevates this team a lot giving them another desperately needed scorer who plays passable defense and would allow the team to move Tre to his rightful position as a backup PG where he'd be one of the best in the league. And I'm still keeping the Atlanta lottery picks in 25 and 26 to see if we can luck into Cooper Flagg, Cameron Boozer, or AJ Dybantsa or trade them for a legit star.

You really are full of piss and vinegar over a guy that doesn't want to be on your favorite team.


Again (and for the last time), DeJounte wanted more money but also he didn't want to be in San Antonio any longer. IMO, he wouldn't be a long-term answer at PG since he's nearing 30 and has already suffered a career altering injury (which he never has looked the same defensively afterwards).

I get that y'all hate having only one legitimate PG on the roster and Pop/the front-office is dumb for doing so (or at least not playing/developing Wesley more on the main roster).

It's led to bad vibes and pining for a guy that no longer wanted to be here.

Well, I'd like them to go through other channels to find a starting caliber PG than bringing DJ back.

[rascal]

We made the play in with him as our #1. Stop with the drama, and just admit that you don’t like him.

I also remember him folding in the paly in game against the Pelicans and getting into foul trouble. Spurs lost that game.

[baseline bum]

Not sure what crawled up your ass and died.

Sure, the guy that went on a podcast and mostly derided his time in San Antonio (as an active player) only wanted out because of the monetary difference in pay.

It wasn't that he wanted brighter lights and a bigger market too.

He refused to sign the extension and also requested a trade. He could refused the extension and re-signed in the off-season if he actually wanted to remain here. He didn't because he not only wanted the raise in salary but also a change in scenery, which his interview on Stephen Jackson"s podcast made abundantly clear.

Do you take a paycut at work? Why should Murray have? No one in his right mind would have signed that rookie extension, as it was for way less than his market value. I watched that entire interview and he was mostly complimentary of the Spurs and of his time in San Antonio. He didn't want to be rebuilding. I would have been excited about going to Atlanta too in his shoes and the Spurs had no reasonable way to lock him up before he hit free agency, so moved him for a ridiculously good offer instead of losing him for nothing.

[DAF86]

I’m Happy You Like Spreading Misinformation Because Murray Has Been Shooting The Same Percentage From 3 As Vassell This Season. Both Are At 81-211 3PT FGA. Murray Is Also Shooting The 3 Better Than Anunoby On More Attempts And The Same Percentage As Anthony Edwards.

Murray’s USG Rates As Way Below Wemby’s So If You Think Wemby Doesn’t Have The Ball In His Hands Enough, Then You Don’t Really Believe That Dj Has The Ball In His Hands A Lot. Murray’s USG Compares To Guys Like LaVine, Middleton, And Giddey… Guys Who Aren’t Even The Primary Playmaker On Their Teams. So That’s Another Bit Of Misinformation.

Yet, with all of that, Hawks are willing to trade him away 50 cents on the dollar. What does that tell you?

[rascal]

I have the feeling that the Spurs are just going to stay put, get a high pick (theirs) and hope to get another one from Toronto. Probably sign one or two vets and probably end up in the lottery again next year hoping to get Cooper Flag with their pick and Atlanta's. By then (2025), they'll have a better idea what to do with Sochan, Branham and Wesley. Collins will have an expiring contract so could be moved.

Most likely, the spurs have said to be patient with the rebuild. Spurstalk is becoming impatient with the losing this year.

They didn't acquire these first round picks to trade them back to get Murray and it's going to take a more expensive package (including some of those unprotected draft picks) than most in here would be willing to trade to get Murray in a trade.

[CGD]

Aren’t DJ and Shams both represented by Klutch sports?

[rascal]

Yet, with all of that, Hawks are willing to trade him away 50 cents on the dollar. What does that tell you?

What makes you think the Hawks are willing to trade him at half his value. That is just Spurstalk wishful thinking. The Hawks aren't going to be taking the trash offers that are being thrown around in here.

[DAF86]

What makes you think the Hawks are willing to trade him at half his value. That is just Spurstalk wishful thinking.

It is everywhere, bro. :lol

[baseline bum]

What makes you think the Hawks are willing to trade him at half his value. That is just Spurstalk wishful thinking. The Hawks aren't going to be taking the trash offers that are being thrown around in here.

The Hawks wouldn't be trading him at half his value, that would be stupid. His value is likely around half of the ridiculous overpay Atlanta made for him, especially since he's not an allstar anymore and is more like an above average starter.

[Dejounte]

You really are full of piss and vinegar over a guy that doesn't want to be on your favorite team.


Again (and for the last time), DeJounte wanted more money but also he didn't want to be in San Antonio any longer. IMO, he wouldn't be a long-term answer at PG since he's nearing 30 and has already suffered a career altering injury (which he never has looked the same defensively afterwards).

I get that y'all hate having only one legitimate PG on the roster and Pop/the front-office is dumb for doing so (or at least not playing/developing Wesley more on the main roster).

It's led to bad vibes and pining for a guy that no longer wanted to be here.

Well, I'd like them to go through other channels to find a starting caliber PG than bringing DJ back.

I Thought It Was Point Blank With You Believing What You Believe And Us Believing What We Believe Yet It Looks Like You’re Putting In More Effort Trying To Convince Us To Believe What You Believe In About Murray. I Already Shut Down The Center Of Your Argument Being That Murray Would Be A Malcontent Here/ Shouldn’t Be Forgiven For His Sins With One Simple Fact: The Spurs Will Not Trade For Him Without Knowing If He Will Be Happy Here. Case Closed.

[exstatic]

Yet, with all of that, Hawks are willing to trade him away 50 cents on the dollar. What does that tell you?

That Trae Young destroys careers?

[rascal]

The Hawks wouldn't be trading him at half his value, that would be stupid. His value is likely around half of the ridiculous overpay Atlanta made for him, especially since he's not an allstar anymore and is more like an above average starter.

He wasn't an all star caliber player either when the Spurs traded him. He's a better player now than he was then. he got a gift all star appearance as an injury replacement player.

[Dejounte]

It Is Very Likely Murray Doesn’t Get Traded Here. There Are 29 Other Teams In The NBA And At Least Three Other Teams Involved In The Rumor. He Doesn’t Get Traded Here? Oh Well. All That This Exposes Are The Fans Who Have A Flawed Idea About How The Team Should Be Constructed On Its Path Back To Relevancy.

[baseline bum]

He wasn't an all star caliber player either when the Spurs traded him. He's a better player now than he was then.

He was literally a 25 year old allstar with a PER of 22.3 when the Spurs traded him. I don't know how you think he would have the same or more trade value now as a 27 year old with a PER of 16.9 that pegs him at roughly an above average starter.

[DAF86]

That Trae Young destroys careers?

Nah, Dejounte is empty calories. Ever since his triple doubles here. His numbers were always prettier than his real impact.

Spurs fans are getting too desperate, tbh. I guess that's what too much losing does to a fanbase. :depressed

[DAF86]

It Is Very Likely Murray Doesn’t Get Traded Here. There Are 29 Other Teams In The NBA And At Least Three Other Teams Involved In The Rumor. He Doesn’t Get Traded Here? Oh Well. All That This Exposes Are The Fans Who Have A Flawed Idea About How The Team Should Be Constructed On Its Path Back To Relevancy.

Reflect on that, bro.

[J_Paco]

Do you take a paycut at work? Why should Murray have? No one in his right mind would have signed that rookie extension, as it was for way less than his market value. I watched that entire interview and he was mostly complimentary of the Spurs and of his time in San Antonio. He didn't want to be rebuilding. I would have been excited about going to Atlanta too in his shoes and the Spurs had no reasonable way to lock him up before he hit free agency, so moved him for a ridiculously good offer instead of losing him for nothing.

I'm done with you, man. When the hell did I say that DeJounte should have accepted the extension and if he didn't the team should move him?

That never happened cause I don't care how the team pays out contracts to players. You must have me confused with another poster on here

Again, and for the absolute last time with you, DeJounte declined the extension and requested that the team trade him. He likely had no intention of returning to the Spurs in any capacity.

He had a good career here, but it seems like many things chafed him & he didn't always want to go along with managements plans. We are talking about a guy that thought he should walk in as a raw, 29th pick and be the starter over established veterans.

You want DeJounte back in San Antonio and I don't. Simple as that.

I think I've made my points and will move on so this pointless discussion can cease (since he likely isn't being brought back). Peace.

[baseline bum]

Nah, Dejounte is empty calories. Ever since his triple doubles here. His numbers were always prettier than his real impact.

Spurs fans are getting too desperate, tbh. I guess that's what too much losing does to a fanbase. :depressed

Don't really see that at all. He'd be a quality starter here. No one thinks he's an allstar nor is anyone but rascal proposing giving up an allstar package to get him. If they can get him cheap they should, if Atlanta thinks the Spurs are going to offer them back anything approaching the value the Hawks paid for him in 2021 ROFL we'll just collect three years of their lottery picks.

[Dejounte]

Nah, Dejounte is empty calories. Ever since his triple doubles here. His numbers were always prettier than his real impact.

Spurs fans are getting too desperate, tbh. I guess that's what too much losing does to a fanbase. :depressed

You Believed Poku And Bertans Would Be All-Stars. Don’t Be So Confident In Your Analyses Of Players.

[baseline bum]

I'm done with you, man. When the hell did I say that DeJounte should have accepted the extension and if he didn't the team should move him?

That never happened cause I don't care how the team pays out contracts to players. You must have me confused with another poster on here

Again, and for the absolute last time with you, DeJounte declined the extension and requested that the team trade him. He likely had no intention of returning to the Spurs in any capacity.

He had a good career here, but it seems like many things chafed him & he didn't always want to go along with managements plans. We are talking about a guy that thought he should walk in as a raw, 29th pick and be the starter over established veterans.

You want DeJounte back in San Antonio and I don't. Simple as that.

I think I've made my points and will move on so this pointless discussion can cease (since he likely isn't being brought back). Peace.

Prob good to stop if you're going to get this emotional

[DAF86]

You Believed Poku And Bertans Would Be All-Stars. Don’t Be So Confident In Your Analysis Of Players.

One thing is trying to project how a college or european rookie will do in the NBA, another is analyzing a player with almost a decade of experience in the NBA.

Besides, do you really want to get into draft prospects evaluation, bro? I'm trying to be nice here and not start naming all the Smiths and Achiuawas, or whatever that scrub's name was. :lol

[Dejounte]

One thing is trying to project how a college or european rookie will do in the NBA, another is analyzing a player with almost a decade of experience in the NBA.

Besides, do you really want to get into draft prospects evaluation, bro? I'm trying to be nice here and not start naming all the Smiths and Achiuawas, or whatever that scrub's name was. :lol

I’ve Grown In My Evaluation Of Players And I’m Not The One Spreading Misinformation About A Player Or Throwing Around Superficial Statements About Said Player.

[DAF86]

Don't really see that at all. He'd be a quality starter here. No one thinks he's an allstar nor is anyone but rascal proposing giving up an allstar package to get him. If they can get him cheap they should, if Atlanta thinks the Spurs are going to offer them back anything approaching the value the Hawks paid for him in 2021 ROFL we'll just collect three years of their lottery picks.

Do you see a core of Murray, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Wemby becoming a true contender in 3 or 4 years?

You don't believe in Sochan and Keldon? Fine, do you see a core of Murray, Vassell, Wemby and 2 wings (that wouldn't be max players because the money would be spent on the other 3) becoming contenders? I don't. We need something better than DJ offensively at the PG position.

[DAF86]

I’ve Grown In My Evaluation Of Players And I’m Not The One Spreading Misinformation About A Player Or Throwing Around Superficial Statements About Said Player.

Superficial is taking raw stats and thinking that's what that player is as a player. We have seen Dejounte play for a decade now, he's DeRozanesque. His numbers will always be there, but we all know that's not what we need down the road if we really want to become a championship contender. Heck, since I've brought him up, why not bring back DeRozan? He would also help us improve and he's posting better numbers than Dejounte.

[Davidicus]

All the arguments For or Against are relatively vanilla, tbh. Dejounte isn't an average player who stat pads and has no impact. He's not a complete diva. He's also not the answer to all of our problems.

However, he is a very good player who can offer us a ton of use over the remainder of his contract. And yes he can absolutely fit into our system, especially with his improved 3PT%.

It all comes down to price. #1 rule is to not take too big of risks with Wemby's 5yr plan, given all of our assets. If we can get Dejounte on a good deal, his abilities + contract become a low-risk situation, with a known return. Kinda like CD's these days ;)

[baseline bum]

Do you see a core of Murray, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Wemby becoming a true contender in 3 or 4 years?


Of course not, Sochan is trash. I'm hoping the 24 pick or one of the 25 picks develops into something special or could be traded for such.



You don't believe in Sochan and Keldon? Fine, do you see a core of Murray, Vassell, Wemby and 2 wings (that wouldn't be max players because the money would be spent on the other 3) becoming contenders? I don't. We need something better than DJ offensively at the PG position.

What makes you think the Spurs won't have money? The cap is likely to go way up in a couple of years when the league starts expanding to streaming services and Victor won't be expensive until 27-28. I'd love something better than Dejounte at the point but am not too sold on the PG in this draft and even if they are good it's probably not for 3 years. And nothing says you can't draft a PG just because Murray is there. If they do and he ends up ready to take Murray's place you trade Dejounte for a better fit.

[rascal]

It all comes down to price. #1 rule is to not take too big of risks with Wemby's 5yr plan, given all of our assets. If we can get Dejounte on a good deal, his abilities + contract become a low-risk situation, with a known return. Kinda like CD's these days ;)

This is the catch. Spurstalk is underestimating what the Hawks will be asking back in a trade.

The Hawks aren't going to hand him back over especially to the spurs for what most in here think.

[DAF86]

All the arguments For or Against are relatively vanilla, tbh. Dejounte isn't an average player who stat pads and has no impact. He's not a complete diva. He's also not the answer to all of our problems.

However, he is a very good player who can offer us a ton of use over the remainder of his contract. And yes he can absolutely fit into our system, especially with his improved 3PT%.

It all comes down to price. #1 rule is to not take too big of risks with Wemby's 5yr plan, given all of our assets. If we can get Dejounte on a good deal, his abilities + contract become a low-risk situation, with a known return. Kinda like CD's these days ;)

Bringing Dejounte back would set the rebuilding back, might even break it. How's that for a non-vanilla argument against bringing him back?

[DAF86]

Of course not, Sochan is trash. I'm hoping the 24 pick or one of the 25 picks develops into something special or could be traded for such.



What makes you think the Spurs won't have money? The cap is likely to go way up in a couple of years when the league starts expanding to streaming services and Victor won't be expensive until 27-28. I'd love something better than Dejounte at the point but am not too sold on the PG in this draft and even if they are good it's probably not for 3 years. And nothing says you can't draft a PG just because Murray is there. If they do and he ends up ready to take Murray's place you trade Dejounte for a better fit.

I just don't see Dejounte as a long term piece on a championship team. So I guess his relative value would be as a stop-gap while we find our championship PG. The question then becomes: "would you be willing to give up 2 first round picks for a stop-gap?" I wouldn't. Not even a first.

[Davidicus]

Bringing Dejounte back would set the rebuilding back, might even break it. How's that for a non-vanilla argument against bringing him back?

See my previous posts, but to summarize:

1. All very dependent on price of the trade, but we (assumedly) would still have plenty of future draft capital that is not dependent on Spurs performance.
2. Going for success earlier due to Wemby's readiness, and therefore attracting FA's to join DJM + Wemby (Manu was quoted early Nov in TP's intvw that it'll take min 3 years for team to compete for championships, and that FAs will come once they see the opportunity of winning). In short: why waste Wemby's readiness now waiting for 2024, 2025, and 2026 top 10 picks to be "ready" to compete 3 years after they were drafted?

[mo7888]

This is the catch. Spurstalk is underestimating what the Hawks will be asking back in a trade.

The Hawks aren't going to hand him back over especially to the spurs for what most in here think.

So, for the record, what do you think a fair deal for the Spurs to offer looks like?

[DAF86]

See my previous posts, but to summarize:

1. All very dependent on price of the trade, but we (assumedly) would still have plenty of future draft capital that is not dependent on Spurs performance.
2. Going for success earlier due to Wemby's readiness, and therefore attracting FA's to join DJM + Wemby (Manu was quoted early Nov in TP's intvw that it'll take min 3 years for team to compete for championships, and that FAs will come once they see the opportunity of winning). In short: why waste Wemby's readiness now waiting for 2024, 2025, and 2026 top 10 picks to be "ready" to compete 3 years after they were drafted?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for getting better as soon as possible. I just think Dejounte isn't it, much less for the price he would cost.

[baseline bum]

I just don't see Dejounte as a long term piece on a championship team. So, his value would be as a stop gap while we find our championship PG? The question then is "would you be willing to give up 2 first round pick for a stop gap?" I wouldn't. Not even a first.

I'd give up the protected Chicago pick and the Hawks could have their 27 back, maybe with like top 4 protection if the Spurs think they can squeeze the protection in. Or I'd give them Keldon and nothing else. Also I shouldn't say I don't like any of the PG in this draft. Dillingham looks awesome, but would have to luck into a top 3 pick to get him maybe. But Topic, Castle, Collier? Meh.

[Davidicus]

One other item to think about here: we have not seen the full potential of DJM paired with Wemby. That's obvious, but when you stop and think about it, Dejounte had a great final year with us (21/8/9/2) on a garbage team, and he's now spent 1.5 years with the Atlanta Hawks (the Atlanta Hawks...) playing Shooting Guard next to a crazy offensive mosquito man.

These arguments of DJM not being a championship-caliber PG are ridiculous. DJM + Wemby + Vassell isnt going to win the championship next year. But let's take last year's Denver Nuggets, and throw in KCP, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Jr, and Bruce Brown, + fillers as equivalents to what the Spurs could garner in 2-5 years with a DJM Wemby DV trio. That roster absolutely has championship potential.

[baseline bum]

So, for the record, what do you think a fair deal for the Spurs to offer looks like?

Dude already said Vassell plus either our 24 pick unprotected or one of the 25 picks unprotected :lol


This is more like it. Vassell or Sochan and one unprotected pick of Spurs 24 or Hawks 25 or Spurs 25 and if Sochan then pick swap with Atlanta back also. You do the deal? The deal has to hurt a little and if it doesn't then no trade.

[DAF86]

I'd give up the protected Chicago pick and the Hawks could have their 27 back, maybe with like top 4 protection if the Spurs think they can squeeze the protection in. Or I'd give them Keldon and nothing else. Also I shouldn't say I don't like any of the PG in this draft. Dillingham looks awesome, but would have to luck into a top 3 pick to get him maybe. But Topic, Castle, Collier? Meh.

Another thing to consider, is that trading for Murrays will be more expensive for the Spurs than for any other franchise in the NBA. Do you imagine the bullying the Hawks front office would get if they trade Dejounte back to the Spurs for an average player and a protected first round pick after giving up 4 (or however they were, I don't even remember now) unprotected picks?

I don't even know why we are talking about it, it will never happen. The Hawks will stay the fuck away from the Spurs, tbh. :lol

[mo7888]

Dude already said Vassell plus either our 24 pick unprotected or one of the 25 picks unprotected :lol

Hmmmm.... ok i hadn't seen that (or don't remember it)..... nobody else is going to offer that rich of a package..

[rascal]

So, for the record, what do you think a fair deal for the Spurs to offer looks like?

I said earlier what Atlanta would probably want and what it would cost the Spurs to make the trade attractive enough to Atlanta.

[itzsoweezee]

People are really overrating Vassell if they think the addition of Murray is good enough to get the Spurs to contention.

They need to keep building through the draft and use all those assets they’ve stockpiled to trade for the next disgruntled star when the opportunity strikes.

[baseline bum]

Another thing to consider, is that trading for Murrays will be more expensive for the Spurs than for any other franchise in the NBA. Do you imagine the bullying the Hawks front office would get if they trade Dejounte back to the Spurs for an average player and a protected first round pick after giving up 4 (or however they were, I don't even remember now) unprotected picks?

I don't even know why we are talking about it, it will never happen. The Hawks will stay the fuck away from the Spurs, tbh. :lol

If the Hawks look at it that way and trade Murray for Grimes and a couple of Knicks firsts either years from now or low in the draft (their own, the pick Dallas owes them this year, or the pick Milwaukee owes them next year) I'd die laughing since that would make the 25, 26, and 27 picks amazing.

[DAF86]

One other item to think about here: we have not seen the full potential of DJM paired with Wemby. That's obvious, but when you stop and think about it, Dejounte had a great final year with us (21/8/9/2) on a garbage team, and he's now spent 1.5 years with the Atlanta Hawks (the Atlanta Hawks...) playing Shooting Guard next to a crazy offensive mosquito man.

These arguments of DJM not being a championship-caliber PG are ridiculous. DJM + Wemby + Vassell isnt going to win the championship next year. But let's take last year's Denver Nuggets, and throw in KCP, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Jr, and Bruce Brown, + fillers as equivalents to what the Spurs could garner in 2-5 years with a DJM Wemby DV trio. That roster absolutely has championship potential.

The problem is that this Murray is Dejounte, not Jamal. Not even in the same stratosphere as offensive players (and please folks, don't come with PPG and FG% to try and sell the idea they are close. Let's save everybody's time, tbh).

[J_Paco]

I just don't see Dejounte as a long term piece on a championship team. So I guess his relative value would be as a stop-gap while we find our championship PG. The question then becomes: "would you be willing to give up 2 first round picks for a stop-gap?" I wouldn't. Not even a first.

The crazy part is we already have a combo guard with a similar size & skillset to Murray, who also is just as raw & unrefined as him coming out of college.

Yet, that kid hasn't 'shown enough' to merit them pining over him and for Pop to unglue him from the bench.

[rascal]

Hmmmm.... ok i hadn't seen that (or don't remember it)..... nobody else is going to offer that rich of a package..

The Spurs are going to have to far outdo any other offers. I don't see it happening. The Spurs are not going to trade any of their unprotected picks. They are holding those as the keys for their rebuild.

[BacktoBasics]

Trading Vassell for Murray should be a non starter for anyone with a brain. You can overpay to a certain degree but moving a core player that would highly benefit from the trade is a bad idea.

[Davidicus]

I think KJ + 2024 Spurs or Raptors 1st + 2025 Spurs or Chicago 1st could do it. But I honestly don't know, and don't believe 95% of this forum knows. Feels like more teams are getting into the mix by the day. We could use timvp right now.

I am in the camp that trading Keldon + keeping one of our 1sts this year is a great move in order to draft another Forward this year vs PG iffiness.

[Davidicus]

The problem is that this Murray is Dejounte, not Jamal. Not even in the same stratosphere as offensive players (and please folks, don't come with PPG and FG% to try and sell the idea they are close. Let's save everybody's time, tbh).

I get where you're coming from, I just dont feel it needs to look that way all the time. Take the 2021 championship Bucks: Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue Holiday at PG. Jrue was 30yo, averaged 18pts / 4.5rbd / 6ast / 1.5stl. Dejounte could do that for sure.

[rascal]

Hawks are thinking we over paid to get him now you're going to over pay if you want him back.

[baseline bum]

I think KJ + 2024 Spurs or Raptors 1st + 2025 Spurs or Chicago 1st could do it. But I honestly don't know, and don't believe 95% of this forum knows. Feels like more teams are getting into the mix by the day. We could use timvp right now.

I am in the camp that trading Keldon + keeping one of our 1sts this year is a great move in order to draft another Forward this year vs PG iffiness.

Huge overpay, Murray is nowhere close to worth the 24 pick right now or the 25 pick. Maybe after the lottery if the Spurs are picking fifth or sixth and Risacher and Dillingham are off the board then the 24 pick could be worth moving for Dejounte, but no way when it has a chance of being one of those two or Sarr.

[baseline bum]

Hawks are thinking we over paid to get him now you're going to over pay if you want him back.

Works out fine then, they'll get crap back from the Knicks or Lakers and more lotto balls to the Spurs for Cooper Flagg and Cameron Boozer.

[scott]

Most entertaining thread in awhile tbh. A few thoughts:

1. I can’t believe it took until Page 14 for someone to bring up MUH CAP SPACE. Crofl.

2. When did it become canon that DJM requested a trade? That has not been in any of the accounts, and in fact I thought the story was more along the lines that Murray was surprised and hurt when he became the subject of trade rumors and then eventually traded

3. There is a valid question of whether DJM elevates a team. While, how about this: The Spurs were a play-in team with DJM, and then became one of the worst teams in the league (and got the #1 pick) without him. The roster didn’t change much between DJM’s last year and the season after with the exception of DJM leaving. Jak was traded at the deadline when the Spurs were already a bottom team.

4. I don’t think anyone suggested the Spurs are making this trade for DJM to be our 2nd best player. I believe the goal would be for him to be our fourth best player behind Wemby, Vassell, and whoever you can find with a top draft pick.

5. The Spurs have ample draft capital to make a move for DJM and still add some high profile young players. Ideally, you can get him for a further out pick and not impact the two (expected-to-be) high picks in 24 and 25. Adding DJM should not stop you from adding a talented wing prospect or even one of these young PG prospects who will need 3 years to develop anyway.

6. DJM fits the timeline just fine. It’s not like he is Mike Conley (who hey, I’d love on a 1 or 2 year deal). As covered in this thread, there will be several evolutions of the team around Wemby in his career. DJM can be an important part of Phase I, and that can last for the next 3-6 years and DJM can fit in that just fine.

7. If you think DJM sucks, okay fine, then your opinion has been heard.

[Davidicus]

Most entertaining thread in awhile tbh. A few thoughts:

1. I can’t believe it took until Page 14 for someone to bring up MUH CAP SPACE. Crofl.

2. When did it become canon that DJM requested a trade? That has not been in any of the accounts, and in fact I thought the story was more along the lines that Murray was surprised and hurt when he became the subject of trade rumors and then eventually traded

3. There is a valid question of whether DJM elevates a team. While, how about this: The Spurs were a play-in team without DJM, and then became one of the worst teams in the league (and got the #1 pick) without him. The roster didn’t change much between DJM’s last year and the season after with the exception of DJM leaving. Jak was traded at the deadline when the Spurs were already a bottom team.

4. I don’t think anyone suggested the Spurs are making this trade for DJM to be our 2nd best player. I believe the goal would be for him to be our fourth best player behind Wemby, Vassell, and whoever you can find with a top draft pick.

5. The Spurs have ample draft capital to make a move for DJM and still add some high profile young players. Ideally, you can get him for a further out pick and not impact the two (expected-to-be) high picks in 24 and 25. Adding DJM should not stop you from adding a talented wing prospect or even one of these young PG prospects who will need 3 years to develop anyway.

6. DJM fits the timeline just fine. It’s not like he is Mike Conley (who hey, I’d love on a 1 or 2 year deal). As covered in this thread, there will be several evolutions of the team around Wemby in his career. DJM can be an important part of Phase I, and that can last for the next 3-6 years and DJM can fit in that just fine.

7. If you think DJM sucks, okay fine, then your opinion has been heard.

thank you

[scott]

Hawks are thinking we over paid to get him now you're going to over pay if you want him back.

Then we simply say no and the Hawks can try to do better somewhere else. It’s not that complicated. But DJM is now older, more expensive (but still on a good contract) and has a lower PER, WS, BPM, VORP and DRTG than when he left San Antonio. Maybe teams will ignore that, but I think most will see that

1. ATL overpaid for him to start with
2. He is less valuable a player than two years ago
3. The Hawks are in a negative leverage situation

I do agree the Spurs will have to pay more than other teams if they want him back, but nowhere near the hypothetical value that you are coming up with - which is close to what Atlanta paid.

Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll see. Or maybe Atlanta keeps him.

[baseline bum]

Then we simply say no and the Hawks can try to do better somewhere else. It’s not that complicated. But DJM is now older, more expensive (but still on a good contract) and has a lower PER, WS, BPM, VORP and DRTG than when he left San Antonio. Maybe teams will ignore that, but I think most will see that

1. ATL overpaid for him to start with
2. He is less valuable a player than two years ago
3. The Hawks are in a negative leverage situation

I do agree the Spurs will have to pay more than other teams if they want him back, but nowhere near the hypothetical value that you are coming up with - which is close to what Atlanta paid.

Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll see. Or maybe Atlanta keeps him.

Yeah the 24, 25, 26 picks are the kind you'd move for someone like Lillard, not fucking Dejounte Murray.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

He'd easily be the best guard and arguably wing on the team

[spurraider21]

The problem is that this Murray is Dejounte, not Jamal. Not even in the same stratosphere as offensive players (and please folks, don't come with PPG and FG% to try and sell the idea they are close. Let's save everybody's time, tbh).
You’re right. One Murray is an all star and the other isn’t

[DAF86]

You’re right. One Murray is an all star and the other isn’t

Jokic getting robbed of the MVP and Murray never making the ASG. The Nuggets trully are the new Spurs.

[timtonymanu]

You’re right. One Murray is an all star and the other isn’t

You’re right. The other one is an nba champion lol

[Chinook]

The Spurs are in their second year of play top-five-pick bad, and folks are absolutely freaking out. It's mind-boggling. No, Wemby's not going to leave in year six because the Spurs weren't competitive in year 1. No, you don't tank for one year and then go all-in. No, literally no team that tries to be immediately competitive immediately after bottoming out succeeds. Just let this season go. For fuck's sake. Falling over for dude's like Quickley or Murray to the point where we see thread after thread of vitriol about the front office not trying to acquire someone -- it's just sad. They're playing Wemby at center. They have Jones starting. They finally look like a competent team that's playing improved ball but still losing. That's where you should want to be at this point. Instead, people want to make a Holliday (from Philly) panic trade, giving up current value and devaluing future assets. It's ridiculous.

Yes, PATFO can fuck up the rebuild. Yes, the Spurs could find themselves in an endless sequence of tanking. Technically these scenarios are possible. But it shows a tremendous lack of perspective to project that based on this season. They have not built the base of talent they need to. They have one top-five pick and two top-10 picks on their roster. (I'm not counting Collins.) They have a chance to double those totals this season. This is not a highly rated draft, but every single draft has good players come out of it. Yes it's worth it to get those picks. We should also remember who Murray was as a Spur. A lot of the people calling for him now were perfectly happy to trade him before. He's a good player, but a limited one. The team isn't at the point where he'd make sense.

I've seen folks saying that DJM would end up being the fourth-best player behind Wemby, Vassell and the pick the Spurs get in this draft. That carries one of two lines of reasoning:

A) The Spurs aren't going to get out of the top-five even if the traded for Murray.

B) The Spurs are going to get out of the top-five, but the pick they use still has a decent chance to be better than Murray. (I'm gonna be generous here and pretend that Murray would be around for more than the next four years and we're talking about the prospect after he matures rather than suggesting he's going to be better than Murray after just a year or two in the league).

If A) is true, why are folks clamoring to make this trade again? Jones is perfectly competent to run the team as it stands. I'm one of the posters who spoke out most against the "Expensive Mistake" mantra. But trading real assets and committing solid money to a guy who doesn't move the needle seems unideal.

If B) is true, why are folks clamoring to make this trade again? The Spurs would have a chance to draft two players who could be better than Murray and keep future cap space open. They could make a future trade -- fuck, even a future Murray trade. That would make way more sense if you trust Wright's skill enough to project him drafting a better than fringe All-Star player in the 6-10 range.

I think folks need to get over the fear response that Kawhi asking out seems to have instilled in them. We all have ideas for what moves we'd like the team to make. That's normal. I think if most of us are honest with ourselves, we'd realize we often advocate for things that turn out to be bad decisions pretty often. Whether it's trying to trade two first-rounders for Taurean Prince or urging the team to offer big contracts to John Collins and Zach Lavine, we say stuff in the moment and get to move on knowing we don't actually have to get it right. That doesn't mean a Murray trade, were it to happen, would be a bad outcome. I think there are definite plus and hypothetical paths for it to be the start of a turn-around. I'm more just saying to stop getting stressed out over it. Rebuilding is going to take years -- actual years of our finite lives. It's not always going to be fun, and it's perfectly okay to take a step back from the team for a bit if you don't like the inevitable wait. There are plenty of reasons to stick around to watch right now in my opinion, but I don't think that winning is going to be one of those reasons for a bit if the team actually goes through the process I think it needs to in order to build a contender.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Winning bad now

[Dejounte]

This Has Nothing To Do With Wemby Leaving And More To Do With Surrounding The Young Core With Vets To Stabilize The Team and Provide Healthy Competition As Many Of Your Posts In The Past Have Suggested And Aligned With, Chinook. I Do Not Have The Energy To Write An Essay Like You Have Writing This Way But Man, It’s Literally Your Philosophy About How The Team Should Be Built. You Are The Author Of That. I Feel Like I Am In A M Night Shamalan Movie And A Twist Was Just Revealed. Please Don’t Write An Essay Back.

[poopbox]

The Spurs are in their second year of play top-five-pick bad, and folks are absolutely freaking out. It's mind-boggling. No, Wemby's not going to leave in year six because the Spurs weren't competitive in year 1. No, you don't tank for one year and then go all-in. No, literally no team that tries to be immediately competitive immediately after bottoming out succeeds. Just let this season go. For fuck's sake. Falling over for dude's like Quickley or Murray to the point where we see thread after thread of vitriol about the front office not trying to acquire someone -- it's just sad. They're playing Wemby at center. They have Jones starting. They finally look like a competent team that's playing improved ball but still losing. That's where you should want to be at this point. Instead, people want to make a Holliday (from Philly) panic trade, giving up current value and devaluing future assets. It's ridiculous.

Yes, PATFO can fuck up the rebuild. Yes, the Spurs could find themselves in an endless sequence of tanking. Technically these scenarios are possible. But it shows a tremendous lack of perspective to project that based on this season. They have not built the base of talent they need to. They have one top-five pick and two top-10 picks on their roster. (I'm not counting Collins.) They have a chance to double those totals this season. This is not a highly rated draft, but every single draft has good players come out of it. Yes it's worth it to get those picks. We should also remember who Murray was as a Spur. A lot of the people calling for him now were perfectly happy to trade him before. He's a good player, but a limited one. The team isn't at the point where he'd make sense.

I've seen folks saying that DJM would end up being the fourth-best player behind Wemby, Vassell and the pick the Spurs get in this draft. That carries one of two lines of reasoning:

A) The Spurs aren't going to get out of the top-five even if the traded for Murray.

B) The Spurs are going to get out of the top-five, but the pick they use still has a decent chance to be better than Murray. (I'm gonna be generous here and pretend that Murray would be around for more than the next four years and we're talking about the prospect after he matures rather than suggesting he's going to be better than Murray after just a year or two in the league).

If A) is true, why are folks clamoring to make this trade again? Jones is perfectly competent to run the team as it stands. I'm one of the posters who spoke out most against the "Expensive Mistake" mantra. But trading real assets and committing solid money to a guy who doesn't move the needle seems unideal.

If B) is true, why are folks clamoring to make this trade again? The Spurs would have a chance to draft two players who could be better than Murray and keep future cap space open. They could make a future trade -- fuck, even a future Murray trade. That would make way more sense if you trust Wright's skill enough to project him drafting a better than fringe All-Star player in the 6-10 range.

I think folks need to get over the fear response that Kawhi asking out seems to have instilled in them. We all have ideas for what moves we'd like the team to make. That's normal. I think if most of us are honest with ourselves, we'd realize we often advocate for things that turn out to be bad decisions pretty often. Whether it's trying to trade two first-rounders for Taurean Prince or urging the team to offer big contracts to John Collins and Zach Lavine, we say stuff in the moment and get to move on knowing we don't actually have to get it right. That doesn't mean a Murray trade, were it to happen, would be a bad outcome. I think there are definite plus and hypothetical paths for it to be the start of a turn-around. I'm more just saying to stop getting stressed out over it. Rebuilding is going to take years -- actual years of our finite lives. It's not always going to be fun, and it's perfectly okay to take a step back from the team for a bit if you don't like the inevitable wait. There are plenty of reasons to stick around to watch right now in my opinion, but I don't think that winning is going to be one of those reasons for a bit if the team actually goes through the process I think it needs to in order to build a contender.

Hilariously bad line of thinking. As bad as the Spurs are in year 1, if they don't dramatically improve there won't be a year 6 of Wemby, he will be gone by then.

Between the minutes restriction, awful talent around him, and incompetent coaching, they have already cost him ROY. This guy came into the league supposedly as some generational talent, the greatest prospect since Lebron, and right now he won't even win ROY. Massive disappointment.

As bad as the Spurs are this year, they have to be THAT MUCH better next year. You can't win 18 games this year then turn around and win 27 games next year and be like we won 9 more games. Congrats instead of picking 2nd you picking 7th what a turn around.

The spurs also don't exist in a vacuum. They don't just have to be a better version of themselves, they also need to be better than the other 29 teams in the nba. Because all of those teams are going to be trying to sign Victor as well.

Now of course the spurs are not going to go from lottery to title in 1 year. 2 years. Even 3 years. That is not the way the nba works...unless your Lebron. It's a transactional league. It's a drafting league. You get better by drafting well, and you get better by upgrading the talent on your team through trades and through free agency signings. The spurs don't need to go all in on one season...but these last two seasons have shown that the majority of players on our team are not good enough to do anything other than field one of the 5 worst teams in basketball and that CLEARLY won't be enough when you have a real franchise player. And then do you trust this front office to do those things? Do you think the drafting has been great the last 4 years? I don't. Do you think the free agency signing have been great the last for 4 years? I don't. Do you think the trades have been great the last 4 years? I mean we know the spurs can trade for 1st round picks, but can they trade for actual nba players that can help you win consistently? No they cannot. We signed Rudy Gay and got worse and worse and worse. We traded for Derozan and Poeltl and got worse and worse and worse. We signed the corpse of Demare Carroll and got worse and worse and worse. Every single trade they have done since Kawhi has contributed to them being a worse team. Every free agency signing they have made since Kawhi has contributed to them being a worse basketball team. Every draft pick they have made has contributed to them to being a worse basketball team. Past performance is a pretty big indicator of future results, and our front office has been EXCEPTIONALLY bad the last 4 years. I can legit only think of maybe 3 or 4 front offices who have been worse...but none of them have the current pressure of needing to build a team around a "generational talent" so they don't necessarily have to hit the gas like the spurs do.

I think that if we are not a sure fire player off team with the ability to at least have a competitive 1st round performance in year 4 of Victor, it won't be a year 5. And why would there be? San Antonio is synonymous with winning. If your not winning, why the fuck would you play for the Spurs?

You say "trading real assets"...uh there are only two...maybe 3 on this entire team. Victory, Devin, and I GUESS Keldon...though I disagree. Tre only looks good here cause our other guards a terrible. No team that is serious about winning is going to trade anything for him. Like you think Boston is going to cut Derrick White minutes to play Tre, or the clippers are going to cut Harden and Mann minutes to play Tre? No bad team is going to trade for him cause they already got a shit ton of young guards. You think Detriot is going to cut Cade, or Ivey, or Hayes minutes to play Tre? You think blazers are going to cut Scoot, or Sheadon, or Simmons minutes to play Tre? Nope.

I guess the good news is you don't have to worry about some bad trade happening for the spurs in season cause the spurs don't have very many players anybody wants.

[Bruno]

I don't know if it has been mentioned in these 20 pages, but Murray has a max trade bonus in his extension. It will add $12M to it.

After a trade, his contract will be this summer $94M/3 years followed by a $31.5M player option. It's still a fine contract but it isn't that much of a bargain.

[DAF86]

I can't think of any all-time great that hasn't made the playoffs by year 3. That's the goal the Spurs should aim for if they want to retain Wemby beyond his rookie contract. Don't rush it, but start shaking things up to win as soon as possible. I buy getting the highest pick possible for the next draft, but starting from next off season, PATFO better get moving to see some results.

[JuneJive]

Been there, done that.

Hard pass.

[scott]

The Spurs are in their second year of play top-five-pick bad, and folks are absolutely freaking out. It's mind-boggling. No, Wemby's not going to leave in year six because the Spurs weren't competitive in year 1. No, you don't tank for one year and then go all-in. No, literally no team that tries to be immediately competitive immediately after bottoming out succeeds. Just let this season go. For fuck's sake. Falling over for dude's like Quickley or Murray to the point where we see thread after thread of vitriol about the front office not trying to acquire someone -- it's just sad. They're playing Wemby at center. They have Jones starting. They finally look like a competent team that's playing improved ball but still losing. That's where you should want to be at this point. Instead, people want to make a Holliday (from Philly) panic trade, giving up current value and devaluing future assets. It's ridiculous.

Yes, PATFO can fuck up the rebuild. Yes, the Spurs could find themselves in an endless sequence of tanking. Technically these scenarios are possible. But it shows a tremendous lack of perspective to project that based on this season. They have not built the base of talent they need to. They have one top-five pick and two top-10 picks on their roster. (I'm not counting Collins.) They have a chance to double those totals this season. This is not a highly rated draft, but every single draft has good players come out of it. Yes it's worth it to get those picks. We should also remember who Murray was as a Spur. A lot of the people calling for him now were perfectly happy to trade him before. He's a good player, but a limited one. The team isn't at the point where he'd make sense.

I've seen folks saying that DJM would end up being the fourth-best player behind Wemby, Vassell and the pick the Spurs get in this draft. That carries one of two lines of reasoning:

A) The Spurs aren't going to get out of the top-five even if the traded for Murray.

B) The Spurs are going to get out of the top-five, but the pick they use still has a decent chance to be better than Murray. (I'm gonna be generous here and pretend that Murray would be around for more than the next four years and we're talking about the prospect after he matures rather than suggesting he's going to be better than Murray after just a year or two in the league).

If A) is true, why are folks clamoring to make this trade again? Jones is perfectly competent to run the team as it stands. I'm one of the posters who spoke out most against the "Expensive Mistake" mantra. But trading real assets and committing solid money to a guy who doesn't move the needle seems unideal.

If B) is true, why are folks clamoring to make this trade again? The Spurs would have a chance to draft two players who could be better than Murray and keep future cap space open. They could make a future trade -- fuck, even a future Murray trade. That would make way more sense if you trust Wright's skill enough to project him drafting a better than fringe All-Star player in the 6-10 range.

I think folks need to get over the fear response that Kawhi asking out seems to have instilled in them. We all have ideas for what moves we'd like the team to make. That's normal. I think if most of us are honest with ourselves, we'd realize we often advocate for things that turn out to be bad decisions pretty often. Whether it's trying to trade two first-rounders for Taurean Prince or urging the team to offer big contracts to John Collins and Zach Lavine, we say stuff in the moment and get to move on knowing we don't actually have to get it right. That doesn't mean a Murray trade, were it to happen, would be a bad outcome. I think there are definite plus and hypothetical paths for it to be the start of a turn-around. I'm more just saying to stop getting stressed out over it. Rebuilding is going to take years -- actual years of our finite lives. It's not always going to be fun, and it's perfectly okay to take a step back from the team for a bit if you don't like the inevitable wait. There are plenty of reasons to stick around to watch right now in my opinion, but I don't think that winning is going to be one of those reasons for a bit if the team actually goes through the process I think it needs to in order to build a contender.

This is a pretty long response to arguments that no one is making.

No one here is suggesting the Spurs go “all-in” for Dejounte. Those of us who think this would be a good move have pretty much settled on one far out unprotected FRP (like ours or ATL’s ‘27.- preferably ours, betting on ourselves) and one less valuable FRP like CHI or CHA. Anything above that and I think most of us are good with walking away. This is far from an all-in move, especially considering our stockpile of FRP’s that we can’t possible all use. This is exactly what they are all for.

As for your A or B: it’s a false choice. Obviously those advocating for re-acquiring DJM believe he elevates the team. But Pop has proven it is still capable to successfully tank. Adding DJM and making our team better is not mutually exclusive of having two high picks in this year’s draft, to go along with two FRP’s (at a minimum) next year.

As for making the move now… no, there is not a real urgency to make this move now, a move like this can be made in the summer and it is all the same. And you’re on record saying the tanking stops this year and the team must be improved next season. So could we just make this move in the summer? Yeah, that would be fine… except the move isn’t available in the summer, it is available now. Could some other player of similar combination of ability, contract and fit be available this summer? Maybe. But maybe not. If you play the game of “let’s wait and see if some better opportunity comes around”, you’ll be sitting on your hands waiting, possibly forever.

If you think Murrary’s combination of ability, contract and fit are right for the team, you don’t wait for the summer - you do the deal now.If you don’t think his combination of ability, contract and fit are right for the team… then say you don’t think so, that’s fine, and then folks can chose to argue or not over whether it is right for the team. If he’d be right fit for the team in 6 months, then he is right for the team now. If he’s not , then he’s not. But right now you are arguing against positions that no one is really taking.

A potential DJM re-acquisition is part of a specific blueprint to the rebuild. Having a quality starting PG (which I think DJM is, at a reasonable contract) really facilitates and speeds up the rebuild in a way that doesn’t really sacrifice the plan going forward. It allows you to focus on a forward with your top pick and still take that developmental PG if you really want, but it takes pressure off of relying on some 19 year old who will need 3-years to develop at running the point for this team, which will be painful and slow down progress. It’s okay to not like this blueprint. You may have your own… or you may not, and simply just not like this one. That’s okay. But again, we can debate the blueprint without arguing against positions that no one has made. No one has suggested going all-in for DJM, to the contrary, we have scoffed at the idea.

[scott]

And… no, being 6-30 is not “where we should want to be in this point.” We’ve started Jones for 3 games and have looked better and have beaten the only team that is worse than us. Let’s hold off on the ticker tape parade.

Other’s have said it best: Wemby has proven his window is already open. A half season playing with DJM (even if still tanking to protect our Top 5 pick) will be constructive at building the on-court relationship. With or without DJM (or any other player) the rest of the season should be about building the on-court relationships that are going to endure. We don’t need any more time seeing “what we have”. One thing I liked about what Pop said after the game today - they made a point to make Wemby the focal point of the offense. Good, we are finally game planning and developing a philosophy centered around our star.

Wemby has proven he is good enough to start putting real pieces around. The expectation should be at least a play-in slot next season. So let’s start building to it. We don’t need to purposefully suck ass to “see what we have” anymore.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sure, but why not use the cap space on a guy that could raise our ceiling more than DeJounte?

PG is the most pressing need, but it isn't the only need (3-and-D wing defender is another) that the team needs. They'll have picks and cap space to try and find a better long-term fit at PG.

Everyone in the fanbase is extremely impatient, yes, I know this season has been dogshit, and willing to buy on a guy that previously did want to be here. Remember, the Spurs sold high on DeJounte partly because he didn't want to sign another extension with the Spurs.

No point in bringing back a possible malcontent.

ok so why don't you tell us which player that would be? Maybe cause there's nobody better available?


It isn't as simple as "who's available now that's better than Dejounte?", the question is "who could be available in the next 4 years and we wouldn't be able to sign becuase of the DJ contract?".

you want to wait 4 years???? And the Spurs could basically sign anybody since Wemby, Devin and DJ would only tie up 70 million together.


Obviously, you don't want a roster that consists of only 20 - something year olds since that is what we have this season.

I also don't want to spend on a guy that clearly no longer wanted to be here, could easily become a malcontent if brought back, and doesn't raise the team's ceiling beyond 'treadmill team.'

DeJounte is like Derrick White, where he'd be much better suited as the 3rd or 4th best player/option on a team, but y'all want him to comeback here and be our 2nd best player. Not thanks.

Sign (better) team-oriented veterans & use your likely top 5 pick on the PG of the future. Which I think is the Spurs actual course of action to the disappointment of y'all.

that's a narrative made up by Murray haters. He never asked for a trade, the Spurs wanted to trade him and tried to find a team that he would like to play for. Also nobody thinks he should be the 2nd option, but he'd be a great 3rd/4th option. We obviously still need to fix the forward spots, but PG wouldn't be an issue anymore. Also Murray just turned 27, he's not on the wrong side of 30 like you make it out to be.


Do you see a core of Murray, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Wemby becoming a true contender in 3 or 4 years?

You don't believe in Sochan and Keldon? Fine, do you see a core of Murray, Vassell, Wemby and 2 wings (that wouldn't be max players because the money would be spent on the other 3) becoming contenders? I don't. We need something better than DJ offensively at the PG position.

We'd have a supermax slot with these 3 on the team so yes. I see it. You get a Star player at SF that team can contend. Ideally we do need somebody better at PG if we're talking about building the perfect roster, but the point y'all be missing is that there is nobody out there. So that player will most likely be somebody we draft and develop for 3-4 years which is when DJ's contract expires.

[MannyIsGod]

I have absolutely no problem with exploring a cheap trade for Murray but I don't believe for a second ATL would consider taking a reasonable offer from the Spurs for Murray simply because of how badly they would be roasted in the media for it. This thread is a lot of speculation for something that has almost no shot of happening. IDGAF what Shams is reporting.

[Dejounte]

And… no, being 6-30 is not “where we should want to be in this point.” We’ve started Jones for 3 games and have looked better and have beaten the only team that is worse than us. Let’s hold off on the ticker tape parade.

Other’s have said it best: Wemby has proven his window is already open. A half season playing with DJM (even if still tanking to protect our Top 5 pick) will be constructive at building the on-court relationship. With or without DJM (or any other player) the rest of the season should be about building the on-court relationships that are going to endure. We don’t need any more time seeing “what we have”. One thing I liked about what Pop said after the game today - they made a point to make Wemby the focal point of the offense. Good, we are finally game planning and developing a philosophy centered around our star.

Wemby has proven he is good enough to start putting real pieces around. The expectation should be at least a play-in slot next season. So let’s start building to it. We don’t need to purposefully suck ass to “see what we have” anymore.

To Support This:

https://x.com/jeffgspurszone/status/1745297673714806852?s=46

It’s Time To Go For One Guy Or Two. Of The Decades I’ve Followed The Spurs, I Don’t Recall A Comment Like This From Pop Before.

[ambchang]

Just more ammo for the same usual suspects to use down the road to say how BWrong is the worst GM in the league by not trading for DJM using some trash we didn’t want.

[Dejounte]

A Chris Paul Type PG From The Draft Isn’t Walking Through That Door. The Scenario People Want Is A Middling Prospect Type Like Anthony Black Or Derrick White In The Lottery Who Will Take Years To Learn The System And People Want A Lesser Type Vet Than Murray, Say Someone Like Schroder Or I Don’t Know, TJ McConnell— Cheap Players Who Would Start Until The Rook Is Ready And People Think There Is Some Kind Of Linear Progression From That? That Would Be Like LeBron’s Early Years Being Stuck With Z Igauskas And Larry Hughes… Because The Cavs Were Too Cheap And Pseudo-Savvy With Their Moves To Take Any Meaningful Risks. And Murray Is Hardly A Risk At His Current Salary And What We’d Ideally Give Up.

So Go On Guys, Let’s Waste Wemby’s Early Years By Being The Cavs Of Yesteryear Or Let’s Root For Having An Actual Plan In Place Where We Aren’t Praying For A Rando PG Prospect To Become The Next Tony Parker Without Any Veteran Support. The Spurs Can Do Both Develop And Compete, These Aren’t Mutually Exclusive.

[exstatic]

I have absolutely no problem with exploring a cheap trade for Murray but I don't believe for a second ATL would consider taking a reasonable offer from the Spurs for Murray simply because of how badly they would be roasted in the media for it. This thread is a lot of speculation for something that has almost no shot of happening. IDGAF what Shams is reporting.

The GM who executed that trade quit six months later. The person responsible was the owner’s failson, and he won’t be held responsible. The offers that are floating around are far less lucrative than us returning their 27 pick, the CHA pick, and giving up the CHI pick, or one of our own down the line. They can sell it to the fan base (and themselves) as “ hey, we got back two of the three FRPs that we sent, plus a different one.”.

[mo7888]

This is a pretty long response to arguments that no one is making.

No one here is suggesting the Spurs go “all-in” for Dejounte. Those of us who think this would be a good move have pretty much settled on one far out unprotected FRP (like ours or ATL’s ‘27.- preferably ours, betting on ourselves) and one less valuable FRP like CHI or CHA. Anything above that and I think most of us are good with walking away. This is far from an all-in move, especially considering our stockpile of FRP’s that we can’t possible all use. This is exactly what they are all for.

As for your A or B: it’s a false choice. Obviously those advocating for re-acquiring DJM believe he elevates the team. But Pop has proven it is still capable to successfully tank. Adding DJM and making our team better is not mutually exclusive of having two high picks in this year’s draft, to go along with two FRP’s (at a minimum) next year.

As for making the move now… no, there is not a real urgency to make this move now, a move like this can be made in the summer and it is all the same. And you’re on record saying the tanking stops this year and the team must be improved next season. So could we just make this move in the summer? Yeah, that would be fine… except the move isn’t available in the summer, it is available now. Could some other player of similar combination of ability, contract and fit be available this summer? Maybe. But maybe not. If you play the game of “let’s wait and see if some better opportunity comes around”, you’ll be sitting on your hands waiting, possibly forever.

If you think Murrary’s combination of ability, contract and fit are right for the team, you don’t wait for the summer - you do the deal now.If you don’t think his combination of ability, contract and fit are right for the team… then say you don’t think so, that’s fine, and then folks can chose to argue or not over whether it is right for the team. If he’d be right fit for the team in 6 months, then he is right for the team now. If he’s not , then he’s not. But right now you are arguing against positions that no one is really taking.

A potential DJM re-acquisition is part of a specific blueprint to the rebuild. Having a quality starting PG (which I think DJM is, at a reasonable contract) really facilitates and speeds up the rebuild in a way that doesn’t really sacrifice the plan going forward. It allows you to focus on a forward with your top pick and still take that developmental PG if you really want, but it takes pressure off of relying on some 19 year old who will need 3-years to develop at running the point for this team, which will be painful and slow down progress. It’s okay to not like this blueprint. You may have your own… or you may not, and simply just not like this one. That’s okay. But again, we can debate the blueprint without arguing against positions that no one has made. No one has suggested going all-in for DJM, to the contrary, we have scoffed at the idea.

I think your first sentence is the most poignant. It was a long well reasoned strawman argument that simply doesn't represent a response to the vast majority of arguments being put forward.

[CGD]

The GM who executed that trade quit six months later. The person responsible was the owner’s failson, and he won’t be held responsible. The offers that are floating around are far less lucrative than us returning their 27 pick, the CHA pick, and giving up the CHI pick, or one of our own down the line. They can sell it to the fan base (and themselves) as “ hey, we got back two of the three FRPs that we sent, plus a different one.”.

The turnover in GMs and failson (my new favorite term, thanks Spurstalk), should give Landry Fields some cover in taking a deal for less than what was sent out for DJ. I think it’s either a player and one quality pick, or two quality picks max. But to be clear under no circumstances should it be giving back the unprotected picks— those are gold given how things are unfolding over there.

TOR, CHI, and CHA picks: there you have your 3 FRPs back Landry.

[Davidicus]

The GM who executed that trade quit six months later. The person responsible was the owner’s failson, and he won’t be held responsible. The offers that are floating around are far less lucrative than us returning their 27 pick, the CHA pick, and giving up the CHI pick, or one of our own down the line. They can sell it to the fan base (and themselves) as “ hey, we got back two of the three FRPs that we sent, plus a different one.”.

This needs to be repeated for educational purposes.

Not to mention the obvious fact that if Spurs do end up offering the best haul for ATL, and they choose to take the 2nd best offer instead, they have to sell whatever that offer is to the fans. Not implying that the public would ever know what Spurs offered, just simply that it’s #2 in quality. Just doesn’t make sense.

[Chinook]

This Has Nothing To Do With Wemby Leaving And More To Do With Surrounding The Young Core With Vets To Stabilize The Team and Provide Healthy Competition As Many Of Your Posts In The Past Have Suggested And Aligned With, Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557). I Do Not Have The Energy To Write An Essay Like You Have Writing This Way But Man, It’s Literally Your Philosophy About How The Team Should Be Built. You Are The Author Of That. I Feel Like I Am In A M Night Shamalan Movie And A Twist Was Just Revealed. Please Don’t Write An Essay Back.

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what I said. My theories have always been about windows rather than short-term improvements. I've said too many times recently that the main goal right now has to be getting the best 2024 picks possible, both in the sense of the Spurs having a good pick and avoiding Toronto keeping theirs. I have talked about the need to cycle and upgrade the prospects on the team, and I am not a fan of tanking. But I talked about the team not rushing this rebuild to become a failed mediocre team. The trades people keep advocating for are at best attempts to do that. The single best way for the Spurs to improve their roster is to get more talent through the draft. This summer, they'll have trades and free agency. But not during this season, especially when the team is 24 games under .500.

Your essay talk is lame. If you don't want to engage, don't. But stop trying to criticize others for writing too much.

[Dejounte]

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what I said. My theories have always been about windows rather than short-term improvements. I've said too many times recently that the main goal right now has to be getting the best 2024 picks possible, both in the sense of the Spurs having a good pick and avoiding Toronto keeping theirs. I have talked about the need to cycle and upgrade the prospects on the team, and I am not a fan of tanking. But I talked about the team not rushing this rebuild to become a failed mediocre team. The trades people keep advocating for are at best attempts to do that. The single best way for the Spurs to improve their roster is to get more talent through the draft. This summer, they'll have trades and free agency. But not during this season, especially when the team is 24 games under .500.

Your essay talk is lame. If you don't want to engage, don't. But stop trying to criticize others for writing too much.

As Scott Pointed Out (And Yourself Actually, Since You Seem Quite Forgetful Of Your Own Posts— That The Spurs Have Enough Of A “Cushion”), Pursuing Dejounte Is Unlikely To Impact This Year’s Draft Position.

I Have No Problem With Long Posts Provided They Have Actual Substance And/ Or Responding To The Topic At Hand Instead Of Referencing Extreme Ends That No One Is Making.

[exstatic]

The turnover in GMs and failson (my new favorite term, thanks Spurstalk), should give Landry Fields some cover in taking a deal for less than what was sent out for DJ. I think it’s either a player and one quality pick, or two quality picks max. But to be clear under no circumstances should it be giving back the unprotected picks— those are gold given how things are unfolding over there.

TOR, CHI, and CHA picks: there you have your 3 FRPs back Landry.

I’d actually rather give them back their 27 pick than the TOR pick. The TOR pick might improve them too quickly, devaluing the 27 pick, if we keep it.

[rankingtear]

There is a bargain to be had here because we own their future flexibility, no other team would value those picks more. This is a unique situation that would be gone by the deadline.

[JeffDuncan]

…
[Murray] never asked for a trade, the Spurs wanted to trade him and tried to find a team that he would like to play for.


That isn’t correct either. The Spurs were ok with trading DJM, obviously, but Atlanta made the trade happen. Atlanta initiated it, not the Spurs.

Atlanta was looking for a defense-minded guard to pair with Trae, especially for team defense since Trae is a bad defender. Also, they wanted playmaking help for Trae. DJM looked perfect for their needs, which is why they were willing to pay so much. All the Spurs did was say yes to an offer no team would refuse.

It was Atlanta that made the trade happen, not the Spurs, and not DJM, himself. Is the point.

The Spurs FO does not have that much initiative.

It’s odd Atlanta would want to trade DJM. His contract is reasonable, he still fits their needs, and their team weaknesses, elsewhere, are pretty clear. They’d be wiser to focus on other things. But they’re welcome to screw up however they please, should they so choose.

In a return to the Spurs, the role DJM would fill would be that of an interim pg, while the Spurs draft and develop their super duper pg of the future, whoever that mythical creature may be. But a reunion is unlikely, since many other possible destinations exist.

What DJM is worth in a trade depends on what Atlanta is doing. Is it a serious blowup, or a minor rebuild on the fly?

If they’re doing a blowup, they’ll want more draft picks than the Spurs should be willing to give. So that’s just a “no.”

For a minor rebuild they’ll be more focused on players. We could talk.