Most Likely Off Season Scenario?

[TD 21]

Not what you necessarily prefer.

I'm going they draft Williams and sign Jones and Martin . . .

Starters: Sochan, Martin, Wembanyama, Vassell, (Tyus) Jones

Bench: Johnson, (Tre) Jones, Collins, Williams, Champagnie, Branham

Deep bench/G-League: Bassey, Wesley, Barlow, Cissoko

[TrainOfThought5]

We need to be drafting starters. Risacher and Dilly will do fine. Sign Patty and Lonnie.

[aissagholi7981]

We're going to end up with the second pick
NBA does NOT want Detroit to waste another player, this draft is bad enough, they can't have any "bad drafts"

Trade for Trae

Draft Risacher

Sign some vets

That's all

[exstatic]

We need to be drafting starters. Risacher and Dilly will do fine. Sign Patty and Lonnie.

Highly unlikely that they sign Lonnie. They didn’t even like him enough to agree to an extension or a QO to keep him. He was the first of the new wave to not get one. Other than the two players waived, everyone since has got one.

He’s low IQ.

[onechance87]

Go after a big who helps rebound and defends the paint and not always rely on wemby.Sign hartenstien or jalen smith.
Draft a pg in topic or dilly.

[onechance87]

Highly unlikely that they sign Lonnie. They didn’t even like him enough to agree to an extension or a QO to keep him. He was the first of the new wave to not get one. Other than the two players waived, everyone since has got one.

He’s low IQ.

why about kyle anderson...A veteran that can make plays and help make things simple for wemby

[Dverde]

I could see Patty coming back as an assistant coach. No way Spurs waste a bench spot for Patty or Bonnie Walker. My other guess is ATL is going to trade Trae to another team after the Spurs decline their best offer.

[baseline bum]

1. Draft Reed Sheppard and Cody Williams
2. In free agency strike out on Malik Monk and sign DeRozan back instead

Starters: DeRozan, Vassell, Williams, Sochan, Wembanyama
Bench: Jones, Keldon, Zollins, Sheppard, Champagnie, Wesley, Branham

[MultiTroll]

Should happen? Oh let us count the ways.

"Most likely will happen"?
Grandpa keeps things pretty much the same or brings in one of his pets like Patty Mills etc, :depressed

Think we've got to see exactly where our lotto pick falls to give a more informed answer.

[td4mvp2k]

only way there's any real change to the roster is with a big trade.

[Frenchfred]

Doncic and Giannis asking to be traded to the Spurs

[Splits]

Re-sign Mamu, Barlow. Draft some eventual scrub or long-term project with the 3rd pic. Pick up options on Sochan, Branum, Wesley. Run it back.

[onechance87]

Re-sign Mamu, Barlow. Draft some eventual scrub or long-term project with the 3rd pic. Pick up options on Sochan, Branum, Wesley. Run it back.

why resign them if pop aint even gonna give em a chance.Hes just gonna choose collins over them.

[TheGreatYacht]

Trade for Trae, no matter what it takes. Everyone and everything on the table aside from Vic. Draft class is terrible. Only like 3 of the top 15 prospects can shoot. Trade the pick(s) if that’s what it takes to get Trae.

Our franchise player is 20 years old and getting triple teamed because at any point he’s on the court, there’s 2 non shooting threats in with him at all times. It’s either Jones and Sochan or Barlow and Wesley. Get shooters in free agency. Not only would it help Wemby face more single coverage, but Trae would as well. Would easily average 13 assists a game.

[Dejounte]

Only sure things:
-Wemby and Vassell are starters

Unlikely to change:
-Sochan as a starter. Still on his third year, I think they see what he can develop this offseason now that they have him fixed on a position
-Champagnie having minutes in the rotation. Being a starter may be out of his depth, but getting value from a contract like this is good for building a team
-In Pop’s interview yesterday, he was asked who among the youth has experienced the most growth this season. He said Vassell and to my surprise, Malaki. I think they continue to see what Malaki can grow into and will exercise more patience. I say he is guaranteed rotation minutes.
-Zach Collins still the backup C unfortunately

Likely to happen:
-Barlow getting regular rotation minutes. He’s the signature Spurs feel good story so as long as he continues to work hard, the Spurs have another player they can get a lot of value out of given that he will be on a team friendly contract… which is superb for team building. Still skeptical he can play at the PF position at a good level, but he’s forced there because of Zach fucking Collins

Some chance of happening:
-Every year we add new youth and adding new youth means some players have to go to make room for their development. I think if we had to pick any candidate(s) that need to go: Keldon, Wesley, Tre, and (I wish) Zach Collins. So I think these guys have a chance to be traded this offseason
-I included Wesley in that group because while he has shown promising spurts of excellence… it’s just not enough. I think the Spurs will draft a point guard (one of Topic, Dilly, or Collier) and once they do, there will be no room for Wesley unless he plays offball.
-I think it’s obvious they need vets or more consistent players and I have been looking at Pat Williams lately. I wonder how hard it would be to get him.

projected lineup:

Topic/ Jones/ Sidy
Vassell/ Branham
Sochan/ Champagnie
Patrick Williams/ Barlow
Wemby/ Collins

[Frenchfred]

Trade for Trae, no matter what it takes. Everyone and everything on the table aside from Vic. Draft class is terrible. Only like 3 of the top 15 prospects can shoot. Trade the pick(s) if that’s what it takes to get Trae.

Our franchise player is 20 years old and getting triple teamed because at any point he’s on the court, there’s 2 non shooting threats in with him at all times. It’s either Jones and Sochan or Barlow and Wesley. Get shooters in free agency. Not only would it help Wemby face more single coverage, but Trae would as well. Would easily average 13 assists a game.

Trae is shooting 42% from the field, not sure that’s going to help Wemby not getting double teamed

[Splits]

Alternate scenario: Draft Bronny, blackmail LBJ in at a discount, send his scrub son to Austin.

[TD 21]

aissagholi7981, baseline bum, Splits understood the assignment. :tu

Wanted to keep it brief, but the natural 2nd is probably dependent on the Craptors 1st conveying (I'm obviously skeptical) and being retained and if so, can be expected to be expended on one of their usual stereotypes.

That would obviously create the domino effect of knocking one of the "Deep bench/G-Leaguers" out of a roster spot.

If, as speculated/reported Barlow is an RFA again after this season per his request, then I wonder if he eventually asks for his release given the unclear path to a rotation spot.

[Mr. Body]

Who the heck is Martin

[Ariel]

Who the heck is Martin
Caleb Martin?

[scott]

Most likely? Draft Matas with pick 5. Raptors pick does not convey. SRPs are used on guys who won't see the floor and we need not think about.

FA: We'll re-sign Cedi, sign some shooter in the Dougy McBuckets mold, otherwise run it back.

Jones/Blake
Vassell/Branham
Matas/Keldon/Shooter
Sochan/Cedi
Wemby/Collins

23 wins next year.

[baseline bum]

Most likely? Draft Matas with pick 5. Raptors pick does not convey. SRPs are used on guys who won't see the floor and we need not think about.

FA: We'll re-sign Cedi, sign some shooter in the Dougy McBuckets mold, otherwise run it back.

Jones/Blake
Vassell/Branham
Matas/Keldon/Shooter
Sochan/Cedi
Wemby/Collins

23 wins next year.

No way they don't bring Champagnie back at $3 million a year.

[Ariel]

This is tough because there are so many variables we still don't know... how many picks, where do they land, who's available where... but I'll give it a shot:

Draft:
If one pick: Buzelis, Risacher or Topic
If two picks: add Cody Williams or Sheppard
Not two guards (i.e., Topic AND Sheppard), but may take 2 wings.

Possible FA targets: Caleb Martin (PO), Josh Richardson (PO), Tyus Jones (UFA)
Possible trade targets: Malcom Brogdon (2 SRPs, maybe the Charlotte pick), Corey Kispert.

Surprise: Keldon Johnson gets included in a trade. Maybe Tre Jones too, but if so probably at the deadline

[onechance87]

No way they don't bring Champagnie back at $3 million a year.

that 3 million gotta go to a veteran or decent role player.

[Pauleta14]

Most likely PATFO will be a lot more passive than we all expect them to be.

[rankingtear]

Trade for Trae, no matter what it takes. Everyone and everything on the table aside from Vic. Draft class is terrible. Only like 3 of the top 15 prospects can shoot. Trade the pick(s) if that’s what it takes to get Trae.

Our franchise player is 20 years old and getting triple teamed because at any point he’s on the court, there’s 2 non shooting threats in with him at all times. It’s either Jones and Sochan or Barlow and Wesley. Get shooters in free agency. Not only would it help Wemby face more single coverage, but Trae would as well. Would easily average 13 assists a game.

Eh Trae is a midget they can play off him a little and still contest the shot.

[baseline bum]

that 3 million gotta go to a veteran or decent role player.

Only ring-chasing vets sign for that kind of money. Spurs have no shot of getting someone better than Champagnie at $3 million a year and they have a team option at that price for the next two seasons.

[Splits]

Only ring-chasing vets sign for that kind of money. Spurs have no shot of getting someone better than Champagnie at $3 million a year and they have a team option at that price for the next two seasons.

technically he's non-guaranteed these next two seasons and 3rd year is a team option, but you're right under no circumstance do they not guarantee him next season unless his leg falls off or he goes blind or Raymond gelds him

[Ariel]

If, as speculated/reported Barlow is an RFA again after this season per his request, then I wonder if he eventually asks for his release given the unclear path to a rotation spot.
An avenue I'd explore if that's the case, is including him and possibly another prospect alongside him (Champagnie, Bassey) + filler in a S&T for Corey Kispert (25 y.o. wing, for his career: 47.9 FG% and 38.4 3P% on 5 3PA). If they were willing to take back Collins, I might include something else. Washington makes for an interesting partner, lots of possible synergies (them willing to take money and wanting picks, possibly moving up in the draft, them having young vets and being willing to take on gambles, Spurs' looming roster crunch, etc)

[scott]

No way they don't bring Champagnie back at $3 million a year.

I think he'll be back, just part of the unnamed riff-raff to fill out the rest of the roster

[onechance87]

Only ring-chasing vets sign for that kind of money. Spurs have no shot of getting someone better than Champagnie at $3 million a year and they have a team option at that price for the next two seasons.

i ment its got go into the money to help sign role players.Think bassey or champ get waived to create cap space.
Think would have 20 million to work with signing role players.Hope we dont use all to sign tyus jones.

[Duncan2177]

Trade for Trae

Draft Risacher or Cody Williams.

Sign free agent Andre Drummond to back up Wemby and move Collins to the 4.

That is all.

[BackHome]

:vomit:

[aissagholi7981]

As long as we don't draft anyone white that is NOT from Europe, we're ok.

[TD 21]

Most likely? Draft Matas with pick 5. Raptors pick does not convey. SRPs are used on guys who won't see the floor and we need not think about.

FA: We'll re-sign Cedi, sign some shooter in the Dougy McBuckets mold, otherwise run it back.

Props for answering the question correctly, but there's virtually no chance they don't acquire a ball handling guard of some sort.


This is tough because there are so many variables we still don't know... how many picks, where do they land, who's available where... but I'll give it a shot

Yeah, that's why I didn't want to go into the minutia and just focused on the virtual locks, which are the natural pick and a starting caliber veteran(s).


An avenue I'd explore if that's the case, is including him and possibly another prospect alongside him (Champagnie, Bassey) + filler in a S&T for Corey Kispert (25 y.o. wing, for his career: 47.9 FG% and 38.4 3P% on 5 3PA). If they were willing to take back Collins, I might include something else. Washington makes for an interesting partner, lots of possible synergies (them willing to take money and wanting picks, possibly moving up in the draft, them having young vets and being willing to take on gambles, Spurs' looming roster crunch, etc)

Kispert has another season left and none of those "prospects" are good enough to get them to take Collins.

[Ariel]

Kispert has another season left and none of those "prospects" are good enough to get them to take Collins.
I thought he was drafted in '20, but he was drafted in '21, so you're right he has one more year left and I was working under the assumption they might not want to pay a role player long term..

[scott]

Props for answering the question correctly, but there's virtually no chance they don't acquire a ball handling guard of some sort.





I hope you are right, but I don't have a lot of faith in the front office right now.

[z0sa]

Likely? PATFO stand pat another season. I don't see any big moves happening since we're going to be bringing in another couple of players to develop in all likelihood. Likely is the keyword here. I'd love to be wrong. We need a great player to team with Wemby. Vassell ain't it, not unless he explodes way above what appears to be his current ceiling (as a primary scorer/playmaker).

I wish I could comment on the draft. I just don't see any rhyme or reason to what the Spurs may or may not do there. The organization is too opaque - but if we don't trade for one, we definitely need someone who can at least set Wemby and hopefully Vassell up for easy hoops.

[couchman]

Draft one or two guys in the lottery and mostly run it back with some lower end shuffling at the bottom of the roster.
Tank again for the ‘25 draft with an eye towards starting to compete in 25-26 season.

I want Trae but I think he is not moved this offseason.
Things could get interesting if ATL sucks again during the season and he requests a trade.
Spurs would have max leverage then and might make a deal before trade deadline.

[Robz4000]

Basically run it back with Dillingham/Risacher in the fold. Could see them bring in someone like Gordon Hayward or Tyus Jones depending on who they draft but I feel after analyzing current Wemby they realize they're further away from contention than a lot of people want to believe. The '25 offseason is where I see the Spurs seriously start making moves unless they draft Bronny this offseason and Lebron miraculously comes.

[JPB]

Starters: Sochan, Martin, Wembanyama, Vassell, (Tyus) Jones

Bench: Johnson, (Tre) Jones, Collins, Williams, Champagnie, Branham

Deep bench/G-League: Bassey, Wesley, Barlow, Cissoko

:cry :depressed


1. Draft Reed Sheppard and Cody Williams
2. In free agency strike out on Malik Monk and sign DeRozan back instead

Starters: DeRozan, Vassell, Williams, Sochan, Wembanyama
Bench: Jones, Keldon, Zollins, Sheppard, Champagnie, Wesley, Branham

:cry :depressed




projected lineup:

Topic/ Jones/ Sidy
Vassell/ Branham
Sochan/ Champagnie
Patrick Williams/ Barlow
Wemby/ Collins

:cry :depressed

Seeing players like Champagnie, Branham, Wesley, Barlow or even Sochan talked about as if they had any kind of real place in a competitive team around Wemby (not saying that's what posters believe but what Spurs seem to believe) and that they'll be anything else than role players/3rd stringers is really depressing...

When spurs actually did succesfully develop reclamation projects or rookies, that's was mostly one by one in contending teams, without pressure, and top players/veterans around. Not all at once in a messy, losing team. And all of them became role players, White as the only high end one, and Murray as the only borderline all star... Recently, they failed on Lonnie, Sammich, Primo and nor Blake or Malaki will become more than at best middle end role players.

You sometimes wonder if PATFO realize they don't have the big 3 anymore and this is the NBA we're talking about with good to great players in every team... This is a really competitive league and they seem to beleive they canmake a diamond out of every kid they draft or outsmart everyone with their development program... That's not gonna happen.

[JPB]

-Every year we add new youth and adding new youth means some players have to go to make room for their development. I think if we had to pick any candidate(s) that need to go: Keldon, Wesley, Tre, and (I wish) Zach Collins. So I think these guys have a chance to be traded this offseason
-I included Wesley in that group because while he has shown promising spurts of excellence… it’s just not enough. I think the Spurs will draft a point guard (one of Topic, Dilly, or Collier) and once they do, there will be no room for Wesley unless he plays offball.


So basically getting rid of players you spent 4 years developing to make room for new, young players you'll spend 4 years developing...

[JPB]

Most Likely Off Season (provocative) Scenario?

Spurs don't make major moves.
Wemby threatens to ask for a trade if major moves dont happen before the deadline.

[dbestpro]

Spurs are going to shock everyone as they trade for 2 veteran starters from teams that want to rebuild and will value Spurs youth over BBIQ.

[Leetonidas]

We all know the most likely scenario is the Spurs doing nothing besides drafting a couple players. We'll have virtually the same roster again + probably 2 rooks

[Mitch Cumsteen]

The pick(s) are too difficult to predict without knowing draft order. I don’t think they take Sarr no matter what, but anyone else is a possibility. I’d be happy with Risacher, Williams, Dillingham or Topic. Or Sheppard if they have bad lottery luck and the aforementioned are gone.

They have to bring in some vets this offseason, especially ones that can shoot. They aren’t going star chasing. That’s not how this organization operates. Grayson Allen is the obvious choice but he may be playing himself out of the Spurs budget and Phoenix can’t afford to let him walk because they are out of avenues to improve their bench at the second apron. Malik Monk may also be pricing himself out of the spurs market and he’s got some baggage but he’s a great fit on the court. I’d be very interested in Bruce Brown if Toronto doesn’t pick up his option. I think they also need a veteran big who can bang down low. Collins isn’t it and Bassey can’t stay healthy. Hartenstein, maybe Andre Drummond who is somehow only 30 years old.

[CGD]

I think we’ll be hitting a window here soon where it would be malpractice for the Spurs not to see what they can get for Keldon. It’s a contract designed to be traded, and I think Keldon should still be valued as a good bench piece for a playoff team. So I’m watching that this summer.

Aside from that:

- Pop will start Wemby, Sochan, Dev
- the Champ position is ripe for upgrade with the best 3/D vet they can reasonably afford, but hopefully the Rookie they draft end the season there (ZR, Matas, Williams, etc)
- they’ll ride with Tre Jones unless they cash in the chips for a PG they like (Garland, Trae, Ivey/Cade, etc.). I’m betting the season starts with Trae tho.
-

[jjspur]

I think that our starting five basically stays the same - minus Champ and the second team gets an upgrade.

With a small trade and a few draft picks, that will mean that some of our current 3rd teamers say adios. We do a lot of dead money deals every year and the front office seems to be OK with it, it will probably happen again next season.

While I'm not confident that we will get the Toronto pick (it would be great if we did), I'd go with a somewhat more proven commodity rather than someone with just "potential". Wemby won't wait forever to win. A hard no to Buzelis or Topic (see what they can do at the combine first before singing their praises) and a yes to Dillingham, Knecht, or Reed Sheppard - role playing guards and probably good fits, that are as good if not better then our current ones. (we need someone better to throw the ball to Wemby) Forget Risacher or Sarr, those guys go 1 or 2 and unless we get the #1 or #2 pick, we aren't getting them.

All in all, in this weak draft with no obvious stars, we should go for solid more experienced players - that's progress. Swinging for the fences likely gets you a strikeout - and the spurs have had their fair share of those recently.

[MultiTroll]

moar of this
1769080439426208142

[JPB]

moar of this
1769080439426208142

Maybe he's just tired but comparing with early season PCs, looks like they sucked all the enthusiasm the kid had for the game :lol

I'm telling you, anyone believing Wemby is up for another season, much less 2 or 3 years of that mess, developing young guys and rooks is delusional. Half a season like that next year and the honey moon is over.

[sfernald]

As long as we don't draft anyone white that is NOT from Europe, we're ok.

Guys like Reed Sheppard were created to break that stereotype.

[sfernald]

:cry :depressed



:cry :depressed



:cry :depressed

Seeing players like Champagnie, Branham, Wesley, Barlow or even Sochan talked about as if they had any kind of real place in a competitive team around Wemby (not saying that's what posters believe but what Spurs seem to believe) and that they'll be anything else than role players/3rd stringers is really depressing...

When spurs actually did succesfully develop reclamation projects or rookies, that's was mostly one by one in contending teams, without pressure, and top players/veterans around. Not all at once in a messy, losing team. And all of them became role players, White as the only high end one, and Murray as the only borderline all star... Recently, they failed on Lonnie, Sammich, Primo and nor Blake or Malaki will become more than at best middle end role players.

You sometimes wonder if PATFO realize they don't have the big 3 anymore and this is the NBA we're talking about with good to great players in every team... This is a really competitive league and they seem to beleive they canmake a diamond out of every kid they draft or outsmart everyone with their development program... That's not gonna happen.


what do you think about this potential starting lineup?

Tre / Lil Bronnie / Lebron James / Pascal Siakam / Wemby

Draft Lil Bronnie and let Lebron James and his agency do the rest.

[SouthernFryd]

I look at this team and wonder...who the F put these players together?

Then I look at who is going to put future players together on the Spurs...and they're the same people.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein.

Doesn't take a genius like Albert here, to figure out what the Spurs future is.

I'm not a Spurs fan. I'm a basketball fan. And right now, I can't be both. Spurs are horrible from top to bottom. I hope Wemby moves.

[exstatic]

what do you think about this potential starting lineup?

Tre / Lil Bronnie / Lebron James / Pascal Siakam / Wemby

Draft Lil Bronnie and let Lebron James and his agency do the rest.

Bronny isn’t even NBA level. He’s been overhyped because he’s LeBron’s son.

[sfernald]

Bronny isn’t even NBA level. He’s been overhyped because he’s LeBron’s son.

He should be able to at least do as well as Champagnie no?

[exstatic]

He should be able to at least do as well as Champagnie no?

No. He’s going to be revealed as a failson.

[aissagholi7981]

Stay away. There literally are maybe 2 white players in the league, not from Europe that are good. Do not waste a a high pick for Reed.

[scott]

Stay away. There literally are maybe 2 white players in the league, not from Europe that are good. Do not waste a a high pick for Reed.

White non-Europeans in the NBA that would immediately be one of our 5 best players:

Tyler Herro
Austin Reeves
Grayson Allen
Chet Holmgren
Alex Caruso
Donte DiVincenzo
Walker Kessler
Brooks Lopez
Max Strus
Gordon Hayward
Duncan Robinson
Kevin Huerter
Brandin Podziemski
Christian Braun

That's just off the top of my head.

[KobesAchilles]

Klay Thompson for 35 million

[sfernald]

White non-Europeans in the NBA that would immediately be one of our 5 best players:

Tyler Herro
Austin Reeves
Grayson Allen
Chet Holmgren
Alex Caruso
Donte DiVincenzo
Walker Kessler
Brooks Lopez
Max Strus
Gordon Hayward
Duncan Robinson
Kevin Huerter
Brandin Podziemski
Christian Braun

That's just off the top of my head.

That’s a good memory!

[itzsoweezee]

Most likely: they double down and draft two more teenagers, neither of whom can shoot.

What they need to do: get a starting level point guard and a real backup center. Preserve those 2025 picks and use one of this year’s picks to make real upgrades

[buttsR4rebounding]

Draft a PG to develop and sign a PG so that we have 2 competent PGs available. Drafted PG should spend most of the year in Austin. Wesley would be 3rd string. Stop playing Branham at PG. Draft a SF to develop. Sign/trade for either a PF that can shoot 3s or a SF that can. If you sign a PF, move Sochan to the 3. Move Champs to the bench. He's much more suited to play with the 2nd team.

[aissagholi7981]

White non-Europeans in the NBA that would immediately be one of our 5 best players:

Tyler Herro
Austin Reeves
Grayson Allen
Chet Holmgren
Alex Caruso
Donte DiVincenzo
Walker Kessler
Brooks Lopez
Max Strus
Gordon Hayward
Duncan Robinson
Kevin Huerter
Brandin Podziemski
Christian Braun

That's just off the top of my head.

Now tell me how many of those players were a top 5 pick.

[Ariel]

Now tell me how many of those players were a top 5 pick.
Probably not enough because they fell victim to the same silly stereotype you're advocating for.

[Dejounte]

We have some horribly racist posters on this site, it’s disgusting. Dude in another thread is still using the C word when it comes to asians. Pathetic.

[Dejounte]

Anyway, if it wasn’t obvious already, Vassell is here for a long time:

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1769545165444628950?s=46

I’m not a big fan of his game but for all our sake I hope he improves.

[exstatic]

Probably not enough because they fell victim to the same silly stereotype you're advocating for.

Or, they are role players, and didn’t deserve it.

[daslicer]

Stay away. There literally are maybe 2 white players in the league, not from Europe that are good. Do not waste a a high pick for Reed.

Wow unfortunately Harlem is still alive.

[The Truth #6]

Scenarios:

Trade their second round draft pick.

Don't get Toronto's pick.

We pick #6 and get Cody Williams.

Who currently is not on the team next year: Mamu and Bassey.

One of this replaced by Cody. The other for a cheap veteran.

Coaches: we see Patty brought back as an assistant.

[Pauleta14]

Anyway, if it wasn’t obvious already, Vassell is here for a long time:

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1769545165444628950?s=46

I’m not a big fan of his game but for all our sake I hope he improves.

Its been clear for month if you listen closely to what Pop says (especially in pre games interviews)

Same for Sochan and Tre. He considers all 3 as the core for the futur.

While the rest of NBA and fans think they should/will be gone…

[MultiTroll]

Anyway, if it wasn’t obvious already, Vassell is here for a long time:

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1769545165444628950?s=46

I’m not a big fan of his game but for all our sake I hope he improves.
65 games.
About freaking time he can make a simple lob to Wemby / simple pass to Wemby when he himself is covered.

Popped acting like it's some accomplishment. :lmao

[get_mills_out]

Anyway, if it wasn’t obvious already, Vassell is here for a long time:

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1769545165444628950?s=46

I’m not a big fan of his game but for all our sake I hope he improves.

Spurs seems weirdly attached to low floor, mid ceiling guys. Vassell is fine as it goes but seems like he’s checked out for like a week per month. He might give you 25 but theres also a good chance he gives you 8

[Mr. Body]

We have some horribly racist posters on this site, it’s disgusting. Dude in another thread is still using the C word when it comes to asians. Pathetic.

It's a site where Splits drops the n-word and people still drop gay slurs. This is the world timvp created and doesn't care to clean up.

[Mr. Body]

Slowly, more users will realize a core of the team is already here. It takes too much to replace what we have and adding pieces is much better resource management anyway.

The draft will bring in a couple of players who will help, but not knock it out of the park. The team will try to add a couple of existing players to improve the rotation. A guy like Bassey isn't going anywhere.

Improvement will be incremental, but the curve will be better than the piss-and-moaners will expect, which will make them very, very mad, because they don't actually want this team to succeed, they just want to piss and moan. They weren't even happy when the team was winning championships.

[onechance87]

Its been clear for month if you listen closely to what Pop says (especially in pre games interviews)

Same for Sochan and Tre. He considers all 3 as the core for the futur.

While the rest of NBA and fans think they should/will be gone…

We gotta move from tre,A pg who cant shoot and a average passer will only hurt wemby and this team.Same with sochan
if he cant improve his shooting.Not sure with vassell.Dude is to inconsistent to be paired up with wemby.Vassel alot
just is a role player not making an impact.

[Pauleta14]

We gotta move from tre,A pg who cant shoot and a average passer will only hurt wemby and this team.Same with sochan
if he cant improve his shooting.Not sure with vassell.Dude is to inconsistent to be paired up with wemby.Vassel alot
just is a role player not making an impact.

I agree and it didn’t take long to notice their incompatibility with Wemby’s game/skills

Pop of 20y ago would never even think twice but the new Pop is a sentimental stubborn old man.

Anyways no point even hoping for an change. All we can do is hope for (unrealistic) improvements/miracles

[R. DeMurre]

I was a big advocate for trading Keldon this summer, when his status as a 20 ppg starter would've brought something potentially significant in return. Now he's almost universally seen as a bench tweener who doesn't do much in terms of impact, and sadly I think the ship has sailed on his value.

That unfortunately can be the other side of the "let's be patient and wait and see what we have" approach.

[spurraider21]

It's a site where Splits drops the n-word and people still drop gay slurs. This is the world timvp created and doesn't care to clean up.
and where you tell people to shoot themselves in the head

[rjv]

We have some horribly racist posters on this site, it’s disgusting. Dude in another thread is still using the C word when it comes to asians. Pathetic.

yeah, ST definitely has some posters that likely surf the dark web when they're not posting their racist crap here.

[itzsoweezee]

Slowly, more users will realize a core of the team is already here. It takes too much to replace what we have and adding pieces is much better resource management anyway.

The draft will bring in a couple of players who will help, but not knock it out of the park. The team will try to add a couple of existing players to improve the rotation. A guy like Bassey isn't going anywhere.

Improvement will be incremental, but the curve will be better than the piss-and-moaners will expect, which will make them very, very mad, because they don't actually want this team to succeed, they just want to piss and moan. They weren't even happy when the team was winning championships.

Except all the evidence to date indicates that this “core” will never be good enough. This is a team with a superstar, some role players, and some non-NBA talent. This team is worse than last year and will bee just as bad next year without any major roster changes other than bringing in a couple more net negative rookies

[Splits]

It's a site where Splits drops the n-word and people still drop gay slurs. This is the world timvp created and doesn't care to clean up.

Look motherfucker. My mother is Vietnamese and my father is Senegalese. I'm bi. I don't live in your shit cuntry and I can say chink or nig or whatever the fuck I want even if I was a privileged honkey bitch like you. So go make another mayonnaise sandwich, listen to John Cougar Mellancamp and fuck your mother so more.

[LeBowen]

Except all the evidence to date indicates that this “core” will never be good enough. This is a team with a superstar, some role players, and some non-NBA talent. This team is worse than last year and will bee just as bad next year without any major roster changes other than bringing in a couple more net negative rookies

It doesn't just indicate, it's more or less blatantly obvious that barring some miraculous developments, our roster is full of scrubs who aren't even NBA level players, let alone legit pieces of a future contender.


Wemby - already the entire franchise. One win without him all season long. We'd legit have the worst record in history of the league if we didn't win the lottery last year.
Devin - the only good player on the rest of the roster, but there are dozens of similar guards in the league. If he's to live up to that contract, he really needs to get better at consistently getting to the rim, drawing fouls and making the right passes.
Keldon - fifth season already, negative IQ chucker and a traffic cone on defense. As already said, he lost any trade value he had. A part of the problem.
Jeremy - if you take aside his Rodman persona, he's such a confusing and mostly net negative players. His numbers aren't bad, but he's so out of control and random. Best case scenario would be a solid 6th man and a glue guy, utility forward.
Tre - can stay as a backup for a few more years, but he's not good enough even for that role if we talk serious, playoff basketball.

Others aren't even worth a mention.
Zach needs to be gone at all costs, Cedi is your average journeman third stringer, others are G-league scrubs.
Every team has a couple of Branhams and Wesleys in G-league. Thinking that they could eventually develop into useful players for a winning roster is ridiculous level of coping and homerism.
Branham can't do anything when his shot isn't falling and it's not falling most of the time. Wesley is a point guard with bad handles and no range.
Barlow is showing some promise, but he'll get killed by every actual big, we already saw it happen. Bassey suffered a catastrophic injury.
Julian is your average G-league wing.

To become good enough for a winning roster, you either need to excel at something or be a fundamentally solid, allround player.
Looking at our roster, who fills that criteria?

I can be overly pessimistic at times, but I'd like some of the resident optimists to change my mind.
Barring some unprecedented improvements noone could've predicted, none of our guys except Devin and maybe Jeremy will ever be worth even 10 million a season.

[VBM]

I'm telling you, anyone believing Wemby is up for another season, much less 2 or 3 years of that mess, developing young guys and rooks is delusional. Half a season like that next year and the honey moon is over.

Tim Duncan damn near left a year removed from winning a title, and he carried himself in a selfless way. Wemby has outwardly shown that he cares about the legacy he builds in this league (no issue with that). The wait and see approach definitely won't be something he tolerates for long. They need to trade the picks for a star and move Sochan for a 1st rounder if possible. End the love affair with guys like Mamu (if he didn't have a name that sounded like Manu, nobody would care about him). Get some legitimate talent around Wemby and Vassell (who we're stuck with for a few years given that price tag). DV is solid, but he's better served as a 3rd or 4th option.

[Mr. Body]

and where you tell people to shoot themselves in the head

Because that would be great. Seriously, though, you crying ninny, a little flaming is what happens on the internet. If you had any fortitude whatsoever you'd roll with it. But attacking classes of people and being racist and homophobic should be beneath the rancid pieces of shit who do it.

But I guess you like the N-word though?

[Mr. Body]

Except all the evidence to date indicates that this “core” will never be good enough. This is a team with a superstar, some role players, and some non-NBA talent. This team is worse than last year and will bee just as bad next year without any major roster changes other than bringing in a couple more net negative rookies

Are we in the Finals? Are we even in the fricken playoffs?

Do you know what it takes to build a roster? Getting rid of everyone and then starting from scratch just gives you even worse players with no development.

Tell me what magic tricks you think are going to suddenly get us into the Finals from right now. No, Trae Young ain't gonna do it.

[spurraider21]

Because that would be great. Seriously, though, you crying ninny, a little flaming is what happens on the internet. If you had any fortitude whatsoever you'd roll with it. But attacking classes of people and being racist and homophobic should be beneath the rancid pieces of shit who do it.

But I guess you like the N-word though?
i dont actually take offense to it. im just pointing out your hypocrisy. you cant cry about other people being mean when you keep calling people whiny bitches and tell them to off themselves

[JPB]

spurs said they were gonna use this season to see what they got. Let's hope they saw what everybody saw:

1. They got Wemby, a top 10 (top 5?) player next year. Yeah, still some stuf to clear but he will rather quickly, specially in a more functional team...

2. Besides that, there's absolutely no point, like absolutely no point at all, losing any more time trying to develop that group for the next 2-3... years around Vic. There's no core here, no starters, no 2nd options in a contender, Devin as a borderline SG 3rd option, all great that spurs development program might be or the power Pop believes he has to mold these players into what he wants...

You don't make donkeys race horses, no matter how hard you try or hard you pound the rock. these guys can play BB, somehow, but they're just not good enough for the NBA elite. The more they play, the more they lose value, Keldon and Sochan first. No one, absolutely no one in the NBA is salivating at that roster... It's more like "damn they suck" or "they're starting that Champagnie guy just because he has a funny name, or what?", "Dominick Barlow is an NBA player, really?

At some point, it's about talent and skills, not just "developing" players or some kind of alchemy... Spurs had the chance to strike gold with the big 3, that doesn't meas it makse them gold makers... Are they that deluded, that they believe these guys can become elite NBA players? that they can will them into it, because, you know, we're the freaking spurs? If they are, and just add another couple rookies, this isn't gonna end well next year.

[Mr. Body]

i dont actually take offense to it. im just pointing out your hypocrisy. you cant cry about other people being mean when you keep calling people whiny bitches and tell them to off themselves

What's the hypocrisy? Flaming an individual for rubbish takes is not the same as throwing around bigotry. Maybe you don't like banter, but they're very elementally not the same.

You do understand the difference, right?

[Mr. Body]

So... like people can attack players but can't take it themselves? Is that's what's going on?

[onechance87]

That collins contract really gonna fucked us this offseasom.Spurs underestimated how good wemby was gonna
be this season.Could of used that money to sign real good role players or even star players this summer.

[Seventyniner]

"Most likely" is hard to work with because there are dozens to hundreds of possibilities, and even the most likely among them will still have a pretty low absolute chance of happening.

The draft lottery will narrow things down a lot, and there will still be 6 weeks until the draft at that point. As such, I don't think it's worth trying to come up with specific scenarios until then.

[scott]

Because that would be great. Seriously, though, you crying ninny, a little flaming is what happens on the internet. If you had any fortitude whatsoever you'd roll with it. But attacking classes of people and being racist and homophobic should be beneath the rancid pieces of shit who do it.

But I guess you like the N-word though?

Or maybe this website would be better without the racism or the encouragement of suicide? I recognize I'm not a saint of a poster either, but maybe we can all agree to be better? This board can be great when people just act like adults.

[scott]

I know we have plenty of threads like this already, but more and more I think the team needs even more wholesale changes than it has time for in the Wemby era.

In an NBA2K like world where you can completely turn over a roster in a couple of minutes and have instant chemistry, you'd move on from pretty much every major piece of our team not named Wemby. Some of the end-of-bench role players (Bassey, Barlow, Champ if appropriately put as an end of bench guy) are fine - but pretty much everything between Wemby and them needs to be upgraded, including Vassell (tbh).

Vassell actually played one of his best games yesterday, IMO, but it still had a couple of fatal problems (to a championship level team) that I'm not sure Devin will ever overcome: some very questionable decision making and the lack of a clutch gene.

Sochan comes off as too nonchalant to achieve greatness, IMO. He doesn't appear to have the drive, which causes wild inconsistency in his game. Maybe this can change overtime... I don't know?

Keldon has the right attitude, but is just limited, talent-wise.

Unfortunately, trying to just scrap it all and completely rebuild around Wemby will take too long, and will probably do more damage than good... so we need to (likely) keep at least two of the three above in order to have a chance at real positive growth. It makes sense that it would be Vassell and probably Sochnan, who at least has the opportunity to change his path (Keldon kind of is what he is at this point).

Just my dumb opinion.

[Tyronn Lue]

A few problems I see with this roster.

1. Low IQ. I don't know if that's just basketball IQ or IQ in general, but a good roster needs at least a few high IQ guys.
2. Chemistry. This roster is like a perpetual tryouts to make a roster. They see Victor do amazing things and they want to do amazing things, or they want to play it safe and so they don't seem to know their roles very well (could be a coaching problem). It leads to a group of 5 guys on the floor instead of a team. I'd be surprised if they ever do anything together off the court.
3. Youth. While the above attributes can be blamed on youth, these guys will eventually be split/traded or simply out of the league (by eventually I hopefully mean soon). When that happens, they won't be replaced by even less experienced players. So it's not necessarily their faults, and some could end up being good players. Putting all the neophytes on the same squad as a "Survivor" type experiment might be good reality TV but sucks as an NBA team.
4. Coach with carte blanche. When the conductor can lead the orchestra however he sees fit, and he's bored already of the music, he can switch the seats around to see what it sounds like real time with formal attired audience members scratching their heads, wondering what they are watching. It's not rocket science. Anyone here could probably coach this team and make game calls as well if not better than Pop has this year.

[Raven]

need to get luka in next year's free agency, that's it.

[itzsoweezee]

Are we in the Finals? Are we even in the fricken playoffs?

Do you know what it takes to build a roster? Getting rid of everyone and then starting from scratch just gives you even worse players with no development.

Tell me what magic tricks you think are going to suddenly get us into the Finals from right now. No, Trae Young ain't gonna do it.

Why are you resorting to these straw man arguments? No one is arguing to jettison the whole roster, no one is suggesting there is a move that gets the spurs to the finals next year.

There is a broad spectrum of options between do nothing(your suggestion) and starting over from scratch. Luckily, the spurs have cap space, a bunch of draft assets, and some tradable contracts. They basically have all the tools necessary to make this team much better next year while also retaining flexibility for the future.

[spurraider21]

need to get luka in next year's free agency, that's it.
luka isnt a free agent next year

[CGD]

Slowly, more users will realize a core of the team is already here. It takes too much to replace what we have and adding pieces is much better resource management anyway.

The draft will bring in a couple of players who will help, but not knock it out of the park. The team will try to add a couple of existing players to improve the rotation. A guy like Bassey isn't going anywhere.

Improvement will be incremental, but the curve will be better than the piss-and-moaners will expect, which will make them very, very mad, because they don't actually want this team to succeed, they just want to piss and moan. They weren't even happy when the team was winning championships.

I think you’re mostly right. The question is whether Jeremy is the 3rd guy long term, assuming they see Dev as the 2.

Personally, I think that for this first generation of Wemby-led teams, Dev is an excellent 3 and that 2 isn’t yet on the roster. I see Sochan as the essential glue guy who, as a starter, will eventually have the role Keldon has played over the past few years (high motor, hustler). Keldon, Zach, and Tre will eventually roll off as they mix and match the pieces.

[Frenchfred]

luka isnt a free agent next year

he might ask out if the Mavs don’t go far in the playoffs. Not that the Spurs will have a championship caliber roster

[Raven]

luka isnt a free agent next year
i didn't say he was

[spurraider21]

i didn't say he was
you said they need to get him in free agency

you can only get free agents in free agency

[exstatic]

need to get luka in next year's free agency, that's it.


i didn't say he was

Kinda looks like you did.

[Rubberducky]

Article on what Malik Monk might get this off season: https://www.forbes.com/sites/matissa/2024/02/28/what-should-malik-monks-next-contract-look-like/?sh=4f7ae6102f5e

From what I've seen from Kings fans, they'll probably offer him something around 4/78 and that its gonna take at least 3/60 from other teams to have a chance.

[Silverheart80]

I know we have plenty of threads like this already, but more and more I think the team needs even more wholesale changes than it has time for in the Wemby era.

In an NBA2K like world where you can completely turn over a roster in a couple of minutes and have instant chemistry, you'd move on from pretty much every major piece of our team not named Wemby. Some of the end-of-bench role players (Bassey, Barlow, Champ if appropriately put as an end of bench guy) are fine - but pretty much everything between Wemby and them needs to be upgraded, including Vassell (tbh).

Vassell actually played one of his best games yesterday, IMO, but it still had a couple of fatal problems (to a championship level team) that I'm not sure Devin will ever overcome: some very questionable decision making and the lack of a clutch gene.

Sochan comes off as too nonchalant to achieve greatness, IMO. He doesn't appear to have the drive, which causes wild inconsistency in his game. Maybe this can change overtime... I don't know?

Keldon has the right attitude, but is just limited, talent-wise.

Unfortunately, trying to just scrap it all and completely rebuild around Wemby will take too long, and will probably do more damage than good... so we need to (likely) keep at least two of the three above in order to have a chance at real positive growth. It makes sense that it would be Vassell and probably Sochnan, who at least has the opportunity to change his path (Keldon kind of is what he is at this point).

Just my dumb opinion.

Not so dumb. Agree with most of this. I might have more belief in Sochan than you. He makes a lot of mistakes, but don't give up on him. You see nonchalance -- I see frustration. High BBIQ guy, and yeah, he's made a lot of mistakes this year, but unlike most of his teammates, he's not scared. He's a dawg, and we need more like him. We're seeing his floor right now, not his ceiling. This summer, his hands need to get a little stronger. Generally in good position for rebounds, but he loses them because his hands aren't clamping tips in traffic. Rebound numbers will improve next year, as will shooting. Outside of VW, he's obviously Pop's choice for on-ball, one-on-one perimeter defense, and he'll be better at that job when he's not surrounded by awful perimeter defenders.

I was very wrong how much Vassell could become a leader this year. I thought this was his year to be that guy, but his BBIQ is so low (horrific shot selection; doesn't make teammates better; doesn't lead in crunch time). The 15-53 record is largely a reflection of where he stacks amongst the NBA elite, as the Spurs' most veteran 'star', and if PATFO wanted to "see what we've got", I think the current record shows what Vassell's got as a 1st / 2nd option player. (Ditto Tre as a starting point guard.) Keep showcasing Vassell this next month. Keep running two-man game with him. Keep pumping his numbers. He's a future Sixth Man of the Year candidate, but most likely, not here.

Don't sleep on Blake Wesley. Also a dawg. Effective perimeter defense, possession to possession. Franchise is going nowhere until PATFO acquires more players that defend like he does on the perimeter. Abysmal offensive player last year who has added a floater and made a big jump. Right now would be his junior year at Notre Dame. Big summer ahead for his shot development and playmaking improvement. You'll know after next season whether to keep or sell on him, but this summer would be too early. Don't be surprised if he's getting starting minutes at "point guard" next year. Air quotes because I think PATFO is looking to be even more positionless than this year, which I'm 100% for. Also why I want no part of Trae Young, who doesn't work within a positionless defensive roster, or any roster that expects to play effective defense.

Minor note -- I hope Barlow and/or Mamu can keep developing into Spurs bench pieces into next year, but obviously they're not answers as starters.

Beyond these -- yeah, I think your general take is right on.

[Raven]

you said they need to get him in free agency

you can only get free agents in free agency
i hear ya.. but given that i don't have a framework for how to actually do it, it is not meant literally.. more like a broad period between mid next season and the time when contracts will start to get too expensive very quick.

[heyheymymy]

Sochan is a total keeper

Gotta say, I really believe in him and am optimistic on his future

[Rosewood]

Sochan is a total keeper

Gotta say, I really believe in him and am optimistic on his future Same. Really like Jeremy and am hoping he proves a lot of people wrong next year.

[VBM]

Sochan is a total keeper



If it's for 1-2 mil a year, sure.

[pad300]

Most likely offseason... OK

Spurs end up 28th in the league (3ed pick pre-lottery). Toronto ends up 25th (6th pick pre-lottery). The team ends up with 2 picks: 5 and 8 (2 teams jump ahead into the top 4, but TO isn't one of them). PATFO will draft what they think is BPA in both cases - but probably a PG and a Wing (as the only top-10 worthy big is Sarr, who will go before 5). Hopefully (IMO, of course), Topic and Buzelis... They also have 2 SRP (33 and 44). I suspect 1 big man and either a second big or a wing. Alternatively, one of the second round picks could be an international, especially if they can talk a guy into a draft and stash (eg maybe Pacome Dadiet)

The spurs currently have the following 14 (of 15 possible) contracts on the books next year: Keldon Johnson, Victor Wembanyama, Devin Vassell, Tre Jones, Zach Collins, Jeremy Sochan, Devonte Graham, Branham, Champagnie, Wesley, Bassey and Sissoko, pick #5 and Pick #8. They also have 2 (of 3) two way contracts filled: Bouyea and Gray. Mamu, Barlow and Cedi are free agents.

To make roster spots, I think they will move on from Devonte (Clearly, they don't see him as part of this team's future, so the will either release his partial guarantee for more cap space or as part of a trade) and Bassey (a casualty of the limited # of slots available, his non-guaranteed contract and injury issues make him a pretty easy cut).

As I have previously stated I expect them to bring in a veteran PG, by either trade or FA. I figure most probable is that they bring in Tyus Jones for something around $72M/4yrs. They will try (and likely succeed) to resign Barlow and Cedi, but not Mamu (I like him as a 15th man, but they need the spot).

Roster:
PG(4) - Tyus Jones, Tre Jones, Blake Wesley and Nikola Topic (could also see minutes at the 2)
SG (2) Vassel, Branham, Sissoko
SF (2) Cedi, Champagnie
SF-PF(3) Tweeners - Sochan, Keldon Johnson, Buzelis
C-PF Tweeners (1) - Barlow
C (2)- Victor, Zach

Starting lineup
PG - Tyus Jones
SG - Devin Vassell
SF - Jeremy Sochan
PF - ?Matas Buzelis?
C- Victor Wembanyama

Backup PG will be a very high competition slot, with Tre Jones, Blake Wesley and Nikola Topic all fighting for minutes. Topic might be handed plenty of D-league time, just to get him minute and reps...(But with his size, he could also get minutes as backup SG, playing beside Tre or Blake.)
Backup SG Branham (Topic also could get minutes here), Champagnie. Sissoko will continue to get lots of G-league minutes (up until such time as he can shoot the 3 at >35%).
Backup SF - Cedi, Champagnie
Backup PF - Keldon
Backup C - Collins, Barlow

[mo7888]

Most likely Spurs get the #3 and #8 picks in the draft. Spurs take Topic at #3 and miss out on Buzelis (who moved up to a top 5 pick) and take Knecht at #8.

Spurs sign Tobias Harris in the offseason.

Tre, Topic, Wesley
Vassell, Knecht/Branham
Sochan, Keldon, Champagnie
Tobias, Barlow, Sidy
Wemby, Zollins, Bassey

[Pauleta14]

Most likely Spurs get the #3 and #8 picks in the draft. Spurs take Topic at #3 and miss out on Buzelis (who moved up to a top 5 pick) and take Knecht at #8.

Spurs sign Tobias Harris in the offseason.

Tre, Topic, Wesley
Vassell, Knecht/Branham
Sochan, Keldon, Champagnie
Tobias, Barlow, Sidy
Wemby, Zollins, Bassey

How can u envision Tre and Sochan still starting next season??

That would be shameful

[mo7888]

How can u envision Tre and Sochan still starting next season??

That would be shameful

The question wasn't what i wanted to happen. It was what I thought was most likely...

[baseline bum]

Most likely Spurs get the #3 and #8 picks in the draft. Spurs take Topic at #3 and miss out on Buzelis (who moved up to a top 5 pick) and take Knecht at #8.

Spurs sign Tobias Harris in the offseason.

Tre, Topic, Wesley
Vassell, Knecht/Branham
Sochan, Keldon, Champagnie
Tobias, Barlow, Sidy
Wemby, Zollins, Bassey

Don't really see the Spurs having the capspace to sign Harris. Probably can't clear any more than $25 million even if the Toronto pick doesn't convey and they cut Bassey, Champagnie, Barlow, and Graham.

[KobesAchilles]

I mean with a whole offseason to practice, who says no to Sochan going back to our starting PG next year? Draft 2 wings in Williams and Buz and bam our shortest player is Vassell. Imagine the damage that team will do. I can see Pop salivating at the thought of another experiment

[baseline bum]

I mean with a whole offseason to practice, who says no to Sochan going back to our starting PG next year? Draft 2 wings in Williams and Buz and bam our shortest player is Vassell. Imagine the damage that team will do. I can see Pop salivating at the thought of another experiment

You got it flipped man. Draft Cody and make him PG.

[Pauleta14]

The question wasn't what i wanted to happen. It was what I thought was most likely...

My bad then

But still it’s unimaginable to me. First year has the excuse of the observation/discovery.
Next season has to be about building with futur starters.

Only Vassell (if not used as he should in a big trade) can be starting along Victor from this season’s team

[baseline bum]

How can u envision Tre and Sochan still starting next season??

That would be shameful

Even if they draft Dillingham, Sheppard, or Topic I still expect Jones to start, as I doubt any of the three will be able to beat him out for the starting job right away. I strongly doubt Cody Williams or Buzelis would start over Sochan either if they draft one of them. Sarr probably would start over Sochan. If they draft Risacher he probably takes Champagnie's spot in the starting lineup. I find it highly unlikely Tre and Sochan aren't both starters opening night unless they make a trade for Trae Young.

[Pauleta14]

Even if they draft Dillingham, Sheppard, or Topic I still expect Jones to start, as I doubt any of the three will be able to beat him out for the starting job right away. I strongly doubt Cody Williams or Buzelis would start over Sochan either if they draft one of them. Sarr probably would start over Sochan. If they draft Risacher he probably takes Champagnie's spot in the starting lineup. I find it highly unlikely Tre and Sochan aren't both starters opening night unless they make a trade for Trae Young.

I don’t expect a potentially drafted PG to start either. I’m expecting a reliable starting NBA PG to arrive. It’s the minimum.

[rankingtear]

Sochan is a total keeper

Gotta say, I really believe in him and am optimistic on his future

He is already on the heels of Tre and Devin as players with the best net rating with Wemby since the new year and he is yet to have that 3rd year leap. This is also with him shitting himself on offense most of that time.

[The Truth #6]

Sochan is a total keeper

Gotta say, I really believe in him and am optimistic on his future

I like Sochan. As for low motivation, I don't know, those sleepy eyes, I think he's probably just smoking weed before games?

[mo7888]

Don't really see the Spurs having the capspace to sign Harris. Probably can't clear any more than $25 million even if the Toronto pick doesn't convey and they cut Bassey, Champagnie, Barlow, and Graham.

It would need to be a S&T..

[mo7888]

My bad then

But still it’s unimaginable to me. First year has the excuse of the observation/discovery.
Next season has to be about building with futur starters.

Only Vassell (if not used as he should in a big trade) can be starting along Victor from this season’s team

I'd like to see a couple of significant trades. It doesn't have to be major stars, just something to improve without burning our best draft capital. We need to at least build into the play-in range next season.

I just don't expect it..

[exstatic]

It would need to be a S&T..

He’ll be 32 before next season, so seconds and salary ballast.

[jjspur]

My guess is we trade the Charlotte pick for a decent backup player, say goodbye to some of our backups/3rd stringers and look to sign a part time starter/second teamer with our cap space. Getting a decent point guard or someone who can pass to Wemby, would help the most whether its through the draft or free agency. Get anyone who can play some defense !!!

No more wasting a roster spot on other teams end of the bench castoffs or rookies with "potential" who are two years away from being two years away. Look to the G-League if you have to. We have some real options available such as picks and cap space, we just have to use them wisely. As soon as the season is over (or sooner) , Wright needs to get on the phones to see who is available. After all that is part of his job.

We aren't going to win 50 games next year but if Pop doesn't start Sochan at pg, and Wemby takes another leap forward, we have a chance at winning 30 - 35 games and maybe a play in slot.

[baseline bum]

I don’t expect a potentially drafted PG to start either. I’m expecting a reliable starting NBA PG to arrive. It’s the minimum.

The PG options in free agency are Maxey, Harden, Holiday, Quickley (RFA), Russell, Westbrook, Tyus Jones, Dinwiddie, Fultz, Reggie Jackson, Lowry, Beverley, and crap. Of those I think the attainable ones are Jones, Dinwiddie, Fultz, Jackson, Lowry, and Beverley. Tyus would be a nice upgrade over Tre but don't know that the Spurs will want to tie up the $105 million or so it would probably take to sign him when he's such a limited player. Dinwiddie was been terrible and isn't an upgrade over Tre, same with Lowry. Fultz is just as limited a shooter as Tre so no point in throwing big money at him. Jackson is more instant offense off the bench than PG and Beverley is more defensive role player than PG. Short of a Trae Young trade I expect Tre Jones to be the starting PG opening night next season.

[baseline bum]

It would need to be a S&T..

Blech Spurs would have to give them good picks to get them to take Graham or Zollins into their capspace, and Graham has to either be cut by July 1st or his $12.65 million becomes guaranteed if I remember right. No thanks.

[baseline bum]

He’ll be 32 before next season, so seconds and salary ballast.

Not a chance. Philly is in a make or break year for building around Embiid and they're not taking the Spurs crap like Graham or Collins just to get something for Harris when that capspace they have cleared can be put to actual useful players. Even if they like Graham they can get him for a few million instead of the $12.65 million they'd have to pay him if trading with the Spurs for him.

[jjspur]

Blech Spurs would have to give them good picks to get them to take Graham or Zollins into their capspace, and Graham has to either be cut by July 1st or his $12.65 million becomes guaranteed if I remember right. No thanks.

The don't play Graham now, they wont play him next season. He'll be cut and the spurs will eat the 3 million or so guarantee, creating a needed roster spot.

[baseline bum]

The don't play Graham now, they wont play him next season. He'll be cut and the spurs will eat the 3 million or so guarantee, creating a needed roster spot.

True. I was just going over options that would theoretically be on the table for being able to land Tobias Harris when the team won't have any more than $25 million in capspace. Not that I'd want Harris at all at the salary he'll command.

[exstatic]

True. I was just going over options that would theoretically be on the table for being able to land Tobias Harris when the team won't have any more than $25 million in capspace. Not that I'd want Harris at all at the salary he'll command.

He’ll be 32, and had Philly over a barrel last time. No one really has a ton of cap room this summer, and I doubt Philly bids against themselves again.

[baseline bum]

He’ll be 32, and had Philly over a barrel last time. No one really has a ton of cap room this summer, and I doubt Philly bids against themselves again.

Yeah you're right, looking at teams with capspace he doesn't have many options to get paid and probably could be had outright with the Spurs capspace if the Toronto pick doesn't convey unless some dumbass team like Chicago wants him and then Philly could trade him for DeRozan instead of just signing Demar outright.

[mo7888]

Blech Spurs would have to give them good picks to get them to take Graham or Zollins into their capspace, and Graham has to either be cut by July 1st or his $12.65 million becomes guaranteed if I remember right. No thanks.

Maybe, but its the difference between how much room we can create and Harris's new contract (which I'm guessing is around $25M/per). We can create around $20M, so a couple smaller contracts might get it done.

[Seventyniner]

Maybe, but its the difference between how much room we can create and Harris's new contract (which I'm guessing is around $25M/per). We can create around $20M, so a couple smaller contracts might get it done.

I agree. Philly has an incentive to S&T him so that they get something in return. Minor salary ballast works, or maybe they even think Collins has enough positive value to eat his contract. Philly will be operating over the cap for the foreseeable future so cap space for them shouldn't be a concern.

[The Truth #6]

I forget Graham is even on the team. He and Mamu are likely gone.

[jjspur]

I forget Graham is even on the team. He and Mamu are likely gone.

Graham has been in pop's doghouse forever, but I actually like Mamu. He can pass really well and can shoot somewhat decently. His defense is unfortunately not very good. Like you said both will probably be gone.

[Pauleta14]

The PG options in free agency are Maxey, Harden, Holiday, Quickley (RFA), Russell, Westbrook, Tyus Jones, Dinwiddie, Fultz, Reggie Jackson, Lowry, Beverley, and crap. Of those I think the attainable ones are Jones, Dinwiddie, Fultz, Jackson, Lowry, and Beverley. Tyus would be a nice upgrade over Tre but don't know that the Spurs will want to tie up the $105 million or so it would probably take to sign him when he's such a limited player. Dinwiddie was been terrible and isn't an upgrade over Tre, same with Lowry. Fultz is just as limited a shooter as Tre so no point in throwing big money at him. Jackson is more instant offense off the bench than PG and Beverley is more defensive role player than PG. Short of a Trae Young trade I expect Tre Jones to be the starting PG opening night next season.

You guys a depressing me with ur predictions :lol

I can’t see Tyus Jones bc both brothers will take away some competitive edge to at least one of them.

I know many of u aren’t fan of the idea but I like the perspective of trading for Brogdon. He’d cover passing abilities, veteran leadership and shooting.

Anyways we’ll see but I don’t get the logic to have an undersized starting PG who struggles to assist his franchise player…

it’s surreal to me

[baseline bum]

You guys a depressing me with ur predictions :lol

I can’t see Tyus Jones bc both brothers will take away some competitive edge to at least one of them.

I know many of u aren’t fan of the idea but I like the perspective of trading for Brogdon. He’d cover passing abilities, veteran leadership and shooting.

Anyways we’ll see but I don’t get the logic to have an undersized starting PG who struggles to assist his franchise player…

it’s surreal to me

Could probably get Brogdon for the Chicago pick and Collins, though you'll still see plenty of Tre Jones starting given Brogdon is good to miss at least 20-30 games every season. Wouldn't do the trade to take Brogdon into capspace though since the Chicago pick doesn't have too bad of protection so outweighs Brogdon's worth. But if they can get Brogdon and still have a couple million over MLE left to spend in the summer might be worth it.

[stnick2261]

It was nice during our tanking year to have the opportunity to "try out" players that would otherwise never get the chance. I think we are at the point now (with so many draft picks coming up) to make a decision of who to keep and who to cut. There are a lot of roster spots we could free up if needed.

[baseline bum]

I agree. Philly has an incentive to S&T him so that they get something in return. Minor salary ballast works, or maybe they even think Collins has enough positive value to eat his contract. Philly will be operating over the cap for the foreseeable future so cap space for them shouldn't be a concern.

Cap space is a prime concern for Philly given that was their plan in moving on from Harden, eg to open up huge capspace this summer. They'll have more than $60 million in capspace after factoring in cap holds and the hold for Maxey and they can surely do better than Zollins for $17 million or taking trash like Branham or Champagnie just to say they got something for Harris. I doubt they get PG13 to leave LA but could probably get DeRozan and Monk and then ship Harris off to Chicago or Sacramento.

[TD 21]

Most likely Spurs get the #3 and #8 picks in the draft. Spurs take Topic at #3 and miss out on Buzelis (who moved up to a top 5 pick) and take Knecht at #8.

Spurs sign Tobias Harris in the offseason.

Tre, Topic, Wesley
Vassell, Knecht/Branham
Sochan, Keldon, Champagnie
Tobias, Barlow, Sidy
Wemby, Zollins, Bassey

I won't entirely rule out Topic, but suffice it to say he'd be a departure from the type of lead guard they've coveted post Parker.

Can't see them expending an 8th pick on Knecht, considering there's no path to him eventually becoming a starter (too much negative overlap with Vassell).

The 76ers and Pistons can outbid the Spurs for Harris and the former has the advantage of being able to offer an immediate chance to contend for a championship while the latter apparently has a bunch of ties/connections to him and he has familiarity with both.


The PG options in free agency are Maxey, Harden, Holiday, Quickley (RFA), Russell, Westbrook, Tyus Jones, Dinwiddie, Fultz, Reggie Jackson, Lowry, Beverley, and crap. Of those I think the attainable ones are Jones, Dinwiddie, Fultz, Jackson, Lowry, and Beverley. Tyus would be a nice upgrade over Tre but don't know that the Spurs will want to tie up the $105 million or so it would probably take to sign him when he's such a limited player. Dinwiddie was been terrible and isn't an upgrade over Tre, same with Lowry. Fultz is just as limited a shooter as Tre so no point in throwing big money at him. Jackson is more instant offense off the bench than PG and Beverley is more defensive role player than PG. Short of a Trae Young trade I expect Tre Jones to be the starting PG opening night next season.

$105M for Tyus Jones? He'll probably command 2-3 years for $45M-$60M.

Before anyone says it (Chinook), I know the Spurs probably won't have the outright cap space for him and Caleb Martin. But they have a realistic path to both should they want them.


You guys a depressing me with ur predictions :lol

I can’t see Tyus Jones bc both brothers will take away some competitive edge to at least one of them.

I know many of u aren’t fan of the idea but I like the perspective of trading for Brogdon. He’d cover passing abilities, veteran leadership and shooting.

Anyways we’ll see but I don’t get the logic to have an undersized starting PG who struggles to assist his franchise player…

it’s surreal to me

The Spurs are virtually guaranteed to bring in a rotational lead guard of some sort, so Tyus Jones can either have it be him (if they don't draft Sheppard or trade for Young first, etc.) or someone else cutting into his brother's minutes.

The problem with Brogdon is he's injury prone, but yeah he's an option too.

The thing is, unless they're trading for at minimum a top starter (Murray), they really need two rotational guards since all of the other names are either not good enough or too unproven.

Unfortunately, they're too conservative and seemingly high on Branham to go that route though.

[Seventyniner]

Cap space is a prime concern for Philly given that was their plan in moving on from Harden, eg to open up huge capspace this summer. They'll have more than $60 million in capspace after factoring in cap holds and the hold for Maxey and they can surely do better than Zollins for $17 million or taking trash like Branham or Champagnie just to say they got something for Harris. I doubt they get PG13 to leave LA but could probably get DeRozan and Monk and then ship Harris off to Chicago or Sacramento.

You're right. I hadn't actually checked the numbers, I was just used to them being an over-the-cap team.

It might be possible for the Spurs to get involved in a 3-way deal involving Harris, but I won't hold my breath. The Spurs don't have anything the Sixers would really need and the only way for the Spurs to get involved is if the third team doesn't want Harris.

[DAF86]

Not likely, but a personal favourite that could be somewhat attainable:

-Draft Risacher and Dillingham/Sheppard.
-Sign Grayson Allen.
-Trade for Naz Reid and Herb Jones.

Starting lineup: Dillingham/Sheppard, Vassell, Allen, Herb, Wemby.

Bench: Tre, Branham, Risacher, Sochan, Reid.

(Collins and Keldon are gone in the moves).

I think that sqaud would show significant improvement without the dangers of making a Trae Young trade.

[Mugen]

Not likely, but a personal favourite that could be somewhat attainable:

-Draft Risacher and Dillingham/Sheppard.
-Sign Grayson Allen.
-Trade for Naz Reid and Herb Jones.

Starting lineup: Dillingham/Sheppard, Vassell, Allen, Herb, Wemby.

Bench: Tre, Brahnam, Risacher, Sochan, Reid.

(Collins and Keldon are gone in the moves).

I think that sqaud would show significant improvement without the dangers of making a Trae Young trade.

BWrong would never be capable of anything like that tbh.

[DAF86]

BWrong would never be capable of anything like that tbh.

The most difficult moves would be the Herb and Reid trades. I wonder what it would take for NO and Wolves to accept such moves. I would be willing to part with protected first round picks, tbh.

[Mugen]

The most difficult moves would be the Herb and Reid trades. I wonder what it would take for NO and Wolves to accept such moves. I would be willing to part with protected first round picks, tbh.

Reid would be more gettable IMO. Herb is probably a top 3 contract in the league. But Minny will have to make some difficult decisions with their cap situation esp if they fizzle out early again in the playoffs.

[DAF86]

Reid would be more gettable IMO. Herb is probably a top 3 contract in the league. But Minny will have to make some difficult decisions with their cap situation esp if they fizzle out early again in the playoffs.

Herb Jones + filler (maybe a contract the Pelicans would want to get rid of) for Keldon Johnson and a protected 20 first round pick. Would NO go for it?

[Mugen]

Herb Jones + filler (maybe a contract the Pelicans would want to get rid of) for Keldon Johnson and a protected 20 first round pick. Would NO go for it?

I think they could easily do better than that tbh. I honestly think Keldon has little to zero value around the league. Maybe even negative when you consider his contract.

[DAF86]

I think they could easily do better than that tbh. I honestly think Keldon has little to zero value around the league. Maybe even negative when you consider his contract.

Probably. If we get a top 3 pick, does any Spurs fan would consider trading it away for Herb?

[LeBowen]

Reid would be more gettable IMO. Herb is probably a top 3 contract in the league. But Minny will have to make some difficult decisions with their cap situation esp if they fizzle out early again in the playoffs.

They'll be 45M over the cap as things stand now.
Even if they get rid of KAT, still just 4M under the cap and just 9 players on the roster.

Naz is an expiring next year and it should be a fairly cheap trade.
But Presti will likely be on it and masterminds in our front office will get outplayed.

They could also opt to trade McDaniels, another player worth keeping an eye on.

NOLA has a logjam at SF with both Ingram and Trey Murphy being up for an extension.
If they were smart, they'd opt to keep Herb and trade one of those two. I'd personally get rid of Ingram, but then again I don't want him here. Would be the worst outcome for us.
NOLA trade is just wishful thinking in some ways.

Bridges price has plummeted and he's definitely going to ask out. He'll be 28, so a bit older and maybe not worth trading two picks for.
Grayson is a no brainer for 70/4 or 80/5. Fits every possible roster, elite shooter, doesn't need the ball, defends well and can replace Jeremy as the fake tough guy on the roster.

Celtics will be 17M over the cap even if Jrue doesn't take his 39M option, which he most likely will.
Tatum will be entering his final year, with Brown, Porzingis and Pritchard being the only guys not up for an extension.
They have to make some really difficult choices.

If not Trae or Garland, I want one of Derrick or Jrue. Preferrably Derrick.
Having Tre or a rookie start the next season would be a guarantee for a disaster.
Brogdon is the other PG worth keeping an eye on, not many contenders could absorb his 22M a year.

[DAF86]

They'll be 45M over the cap as things stand now.
Even if they get rid of KAT, still just 4M under the cap and just 9 players on the roster.

Naz is an expiring next year and it should be a fairly cheap trade.
But Presti will likely be on it and masterminds in our front office will get outplayed.

They could also opt to trade McDaniels, another player worth keeping an eye on.

NOLA has a logjam at SF with both Ingram and Trey Murphy being up for an extension.
If they were smart, they'd opt to keep Herb and trade one of those two. I'd personally get rid of Ingram, but then again I don't want him here. Would be the worst outcome for us.
NOLA trade is just wishful thinking in some ways.

Bridges price has plummeted and he's definitely going to ask out. He'll be 28, so a bit older and maybe not worth trading two picks for.
Grayson is a no brainer for 70/4 or 80/5. Fits every possible roster, elite shooter, doesn't need the ball, defends well and can replace Jeremy as the fake tough guy on the roster.

Celtics will be 17M over the cap even if Jrue doesn't take his 39M option, which he most likely will.
Tatum will be entering his final year, with Brown, Porzingis and Pritchard being the only guys not up for an extension.
They have to make some really difficult choices.

If not Trae or Garland, I want one of Derrick or Jrue. Preferrably Derrick.
Having Tre or a rookie start the next season would be a guarantee for a disaster.
Brogdon is the other PG worth keeping an eye on, not many contenders could absorb his 22M a year.

There are moves to be made to improve the roster if PATFO doesn't chicken out. I think these type of lowkey moves would be much more benefitial than swinging for the fences on a Trae Young type trade, tbh.

[Mugen]

Probably. If we get a top 3 pick, does any Spurs fan would consider trading it away for Herb?

Yeah I'd probably trade it away for Herb tbh. I don't have much faith in BWrong making the right pick. At least Herb is a known commodity tbh.

[mo7888]

They'll be 45M over the cap as things stand now.
Even if they get rid of KAT, still just 4M under the cap and just 9 players on the roster.

Naz is an expiring next year and it should be a fairly cheap trade.
But Presti will likely be on it and masterminds in our front office will get outplayed.

They could also opt to trade McDaniels, another player worth keeping an eye on.

NOLA has a logjam at SF with both Ingram and Trey Murphy being up for an extension.
If they were smart, they'd opt to keep Herb and trade one of those two. I'd personally get rid of Ingram, but then again I don't want him here. Would be the worst outcome for us.
NOLA trade is just wishful thinking in some ways.

Bridges price has plummeted and he's definitely going to ask out. He'll be 28, so a bit older and maybe not worth trading two picks for.
Grayson is a no brainer for 70/4 or 80/5. Fits every possible roster, elite shooter, doesn't need the ball, defends well and can replace Jeremy as the fake tough guy on the roster.

Celtics will be 17M over the cap even if Jrue doesn't take his 39M option, which he most likely will.
Tatum will be entering his final year, with Brown, Porzingis and Pritchard being the only guys not up for an extension.
They have to make some really difficult choices.

If not Trae or Garland, I want one of Derrick or Jrue. Preferrably Derrick.
Having Tre or a rookie start the next season would be a guarantee for a disaster.
Brogdon is the other PG worth keeping an eye on, not many contenders could absorb his 22M a year.

There's alot of good thoughts in there. One thing i do see differently though, is I think we have a decided advantage over Presti in trades with Minnesota. Minnesota isn't going to want to trade useful players to a team who's a current threat to them as far as standings go. Our suckitude is an advantage in this instance..

[Pauleta14]

Imo if we want Reid, Herb or any real valuable addition, we'll have to overpay.

Except for Wemby and income taxes, Spurs aren't attractive enough short term

The question is a what time will the Spurs be ok paying the luxury tax, 1-2-3 years? considering what Wemby already brought, it should be a no brainner but with the Spurs tradition....

[Ignazzz]

Probably. If we get a top 3 pick, does any Spurs fan would consider trading it away for Herb?

maybe not 1:1
our top pick & our ca. 33rd for Herb and 25th (pels pick)

[venitian navigator]

All scenarios depends on how many and how valuable draft picks we'll have next draft. Possibly, we could have a top 3pick, a top 10 pick,a top 35 pick and a top 55 pick... There is room for any kind of trades also on draft day... And this draft looks to me to be very weak on the top (the order of lottery picks is highly uncertain and probably there will be ton of surprises in draft night) but very strong till the first 50 picks...

[venitian navigator]

Top 45 not 55...

[Silverheart80]

From a terrific Mike Finger article in the March 10th San Antonio Express-News:

"In 2021, four of the worst six teams in the NBA were Minnesota, Oklahoma City, Cleveland and Orlando. All won fewer than 24 games that season.

Three years later, all four of those teams are playoff locks. The Thunder and Timberwolves began the weekend as the top two teams in the Western Conference, while the Cavaliers and Magic both were in the top five in the East.

So how did they get there? Was it a matter of young rosters improving and growing older together? Well, unless we're talking about a select, small core on each team, not really.

On this season's Oklahoma City powerhouse, only three players are left over from when the Thunder bottomed out in 2021. Same goes for Cleveland. Minnesota has four players remaining from three years ago. Orlando has the most continuity of the group with six holdovers."

That last stanza resonates. The only two current Spurs that play anything remotely resembling consistent individual defense, possession to possession, are VW and Jeremy. Blake Wesley is more professional on defense than most other Spurs, but his offense is still so raw that he's not cracking a starting lineup anytime soon (rooting hard for him to turn that corner though). Beyond those three -- that's it. It's a sieve. The rest play lottery-level individual defense. And here we are.

I'm guessing by 2026, only four of the current roster will still be Spurs -- most certainly players with high BBIQ and defensive skill -- Victor, Jeremy, and two others not named Devin. I'll be surprised to see the Spurs draft any US-born players in the next two years. Mostly high-IQ non-US players with significant pro experience, switchability on defense, and 3-point accuracy. I hope.

[MultiTroll]

Grayson is a no brainer for 70/4 or 80/5. Fits every possible roster, elite shooter, doesn't need the ball, defends well and can replace Jeremy as the fake tough guy on the roster.
Hell no.
Massive phaggot.
Do not want his cancer ass around Wemby.

[pad300]

... I'll be surprised to see the Spurs draft any US-born players in the next two years. Mostly high-IQ non-US players with significant pro experience, switchability on defense, and 3-point accuracy. I hope.

I really doubt it, prospects like that go high, and there aren't enough to go around.

[exstatic]

Maybe, but its the difference between how much room we can create and Harris's new contract (which I'm guessing is around $25M/per). We can create around $20M, so a couple smaller contracts might get it done.

His season cratered after Embiid went down. I don’t think you need $25M to sign him. The market this summer won’t support that. My guess is that his price point comes in somewhere between the MLE and $20M.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't see any scenario where New Orleans trades Herb Jones, except for a star. They love him there, have no use whatsoever for Keldon Johnson, a dude who's a net negative on a 16-56 team.

[CorrectCrusader]

Probably. If we get a top 3 pick, does any Spurs fan would consider trading it away for Herb?

Herb Jones? in a heartbeat.
However I think it'd be better to package it for Trae

[Notorious H.O.P.]

PATFO realizes they don't know what they are doing and hire a SpursTalk random to handle the off-season.

Rando uses the 3rd and 7th picks to salary dump Collins and Branham to the Warriors in exchange for a freshly guaranteed Chris Paul.

Bryn Forbes is signed for the explicit purpose of cutting him again.

Keldon, Champagnie and ATL 27 traded to the Magic for a sign and traded Mo Wagner and Fultz.

Mills signed to a one year farewell tour towel waving contract.

Signs multiple French guys to keep Wemby happy.

Pop replaced by Coach Bud.

[rascal]

End up with one first round pick and draft Topic.

Add a couple low level veterans for the bench and run back the same team next year.

[exstatic]

Imo if we want Reid, Herb or any real valuable addition, we'll have to overpay.

Except for Wemby and income taxes, Spurs aren't attractive enough short term

The question is a what time will the Spurs be ok paying the luxury tax, 1-2-3 years? considering what Wemby already brought, it should be a no brainner but with the Spurs tradition....

Reid and Herb would both be trades, so the desirability of SA isn’t a factor. There was a little smoke at the deadline about Herb, but I’ve heard nothing about Naz on the block, and the obvious piece for them to move is KAT. That rolls back their payroll in a major way.

[exstatic]

Probably. If we get a top 3 pick, does any Spurs fan would consider trading it away for Herb?

No. He’s a role player, a complementary piece. If the Toronto pick doesn’t convey this year, I’d offer it to N.O. If it does, I’d offer them the Chicago pick, with maybe the Charlotte pick as a sweetener/ throw in.

[exstatic]

I don't see any scenario where New Orleans trades Herb Jones, except for a star. They love him there, have no use whatsoever for Keldon Johnson, a dude who's a net negative on a 16-56 team.

Herb Jones isn’t a star. He’s a role player. He’s Bowen. He’ll never pull a star in return.

They have some problems with payroll, so they’ll need to be moving someone.

[DAF86]

Herb Jones isn’t a star. He’s a role player. He’s Bowen. He’ll never pull a star in return.

They have some problems with payroll, so they’ll need to be moving someone.

If you want to build a championship core, that's more valuable than a flawed star. A Bruce Bowen is more valuable than a Russell Westbrook. A Herb Jones is more valuable than a Trae Young.

[tbdog]

If you want to build a championship core, that's more valuable than a flawed star. A Bruce Bowen is more valuable than a Russell Westbrook. A Herb Jones is more valuable than a Trae Young.

If you can find a 1-2-3. Herb Jones as your second best player will not be a championship core.

[DAF86]

If you can find a 1-2-3. Herb Jones as your second best player will not be a championship core.

Of course not, but a Bruce Bowen or Herb Jones is way more probable to be part of a championship core than a Russell Westbrook or a Trae Young.

[tbdog]

Of course not, but a Bruce Bowen or Herb Jones is way more probable to be part of a championship core than a Russell Westbrook or a Trae Young.

Russell got to the finals as the thunders number 2. Trae got to the ECF as the hawks number 1.

[DAF86]

Russell got to the finals as the thunders number 2. Trae got to the ECF as the hawks number 1.

Bruce Bowen won 3 championships.

[tbdog]

Bruce Bowen won 3 championships.


As like the number 4 guy. In 2004/5 championship season, he was 6th highest paid in the team. Parker earned half of his contract. Rose, Barry, Nesterovic, Manu, TD all earned more.

[DAF86]

As like the number 4 guy. In 2004/5 championship season, he was 6th highest paid in the team. Parker earned half of his contract. Rose, Barry, Nesterovic, Manu, TD all earned more.

Yeah, so? You wouldn't be getting Herb to be a top 3 player nor one of the highest paid.

[tbdog]

Yeah, so? You wouldn't be getting Herb to be a top 3 player nor one of the highest paid.

Why are you comparing good role players to former mvp's?

[JPB]

From a terrific Mike Finger article in the March 10th San Antonio Express-News:

"In 2021, four of the worst six teams in the NBA were Minnesota, Oklahoma City, Cleveland and Orlando. All won fewer than 24 games that season.

Three years later, all four of those teams are playoff locks. The Thunder and Timberwolves began the weekend as the top two teams in the Western Conference, while the Cavaliers and Magic both were in the top five in the East.

So how did they get there? Was it a matter of young rosters improving and growing older together? Well, unless we're talking about a select, small core on each team, not really.

On this season's Oklahoma City powerhouse, only three players are left over from when the Thunder bottomed out in 2021. Same goes for Cleveland. Minnesota has four players remaining from three years ago. Orlando has the most continuity of the group with six holdovers."

That last stanza resonates. The only two current Spurs that play anything remotely resembling consistent individual defense, possession to possession, are VW and Jeremy. Blake Wesley is more professional on defense than most other Spurs, but his offense is still so raw that he's not cracking a starting lineup anytime soon (rooting hard for him to turn that corner though). Beyond those three -- that's it. It's a sieve. The rest play lottery-level individual defense. And here we are.

I'm guessing by 2026, only four of the current roster will still be Spurs -- most certainly players with high BBIQ and defensive skill -- Victor, Jeremy, and two others not named Devin. I'll be surprised to see the Spurs draft any US-born players in the next two years. Mostly high-IQ non-US players with significant pro experience, switchability on defense, and 3-point accuracy. I hope.

You mean OKC (the model to follow if I'm listening to the spurs) went from bottom to top of the league and contender in 2 years..

And how did they got there? By trading for a star PG to play with their young phenom rookie center (who was actually out the first year).

Interesting.

[exstatic]

If you want to build a championship core, that's more valuable than a flawed star. A Bruce Bowen is more valuable than a Russell Westbrook. A Herb Jones is more valuable than a Trae Young.

You didn’t follow the conversation. I love Herb Jones, but DeMuure said the Pels wouldn’t take anything less than a star in return, which is just plain foolishness. Back in the day, no one would have traded Kobe or even Ray Allen for Bowen.

[DAF86]

You didn’t follow the conversation. I love Herb Jones, but DeMuure said the Pels wouldn’t take anything less than a star in return, which is just plain foolishness. Back in the day, no one would have traded Kobe or even Ray Allen for Bowen.

I followed the conversation, I just started a new one, tbh.

[DAF86]

Why are you comparing good role players to former mvp's?

Because if you want to build a championship contender, some role players are more valuable that some former MVPs. You have more chances of winning a championship with a Bruce Bowen on your roster, than a Russell Westbrook.

A Westbrook elevates your floor, a Bowen elevetes your ceiling.

On this specific Spurs case what I'm trying to say is that if you want to have a bigger chance of getting to the playoffs next season, you are better off getting Trae Young than Herb Jones; but if the goal is to build a champonship contender in the long run, you are better off getting Herb Jones and looking for a true championship level 2nd guy somwhere down the road.

[MannyIsGod]

If you want to build a championship core, that's more valuable than a flawed star. A Bruce Bowen is more valuable than a Russell Westbrook. A Herb Jones is more valuable than a Trae Young.

LOL ok. This is nonsense. Herb Jones won't make as much as Trae, nor will he get back as much in a trade. He's a good player, but he does not in any way move the needle the way a player like Trae Young does. This is a Mike Greenburg level of take like saying UCONN could beat NBA teams. Just outlandish.

[MannyIsGod]

If you already HAVE a championship core, THEN I could see teh argument of Herb Jones being more valuable. But if you want to make one? There are way more Herb Jones in the leagues than Trae Youngs. This isn't even debatable.

[DPG21920]

Im just going simplified here and it all wont be done in one off season - this is a multi year build:

But everyone outside of Wemby and to a lesser degree Devin+Sochan is on the block. Spurs need a complete overhaul of players at least 6-15 if not 4-15. It wont happen all this off season and maybe we see some leaps from Branham, Blake, etc…but Spurs are going to need major upgrades and change

Everyone who is not Wemby (and again to lesser degree Dev + Sochan) needs to be fighting for a reason to be kept or have a rotation spot as high as they do this season.

So what I would like to see at a minimum, is 5 guys over turned this off season. Hopefully Spurs draft two guys in the lottery assuming we get lucky with the TOR pick conveying.

We see at least 1 trade and maybe 2 free agent signings.

That is 5 “new” players with 5 current guys replaced.

[DAF86]

If you already HAVE a championship core, THEN I could see teh argument of Herb Jones being more valuable. But if you want to make one? There are way more Herb Jones in the leagues than Trae Youngs. This isn't even debatable.

If you want to build a championship core, I don't think a guy like Trae Young gets it done. Not as a second option, nor third. In fact, the lower he gets into the ranks within the team, the less useful he gets. I would argue having Herb as the 4th (or even 3rd) best player of your team, is more conductive to champinship level aspirations than a guy like Young.

So my reasoning is the following:

Herb or Young as your 2nd best player = no championship

Herb or Young as your 3rd best player = likely no championship either

Herb as your 4th best player = elite championship piece
Young as your 4th best player = an awful fit

That's why I would rather have a Herb Jones than a Trae Young if my aspiration is to build a championship core. If the aspiration is to get better sooner but never trully contend, then, yeah, go get Trae.

[Seventyniner]

If you want to build a championship core, I don't think a guy like Trae Young gets it done. Not as a second option, nor third. In fact, the lower he gets into the ranks within the team, the less useful he gets. I would argue having Herb as the 4th (or even 3rd) best player of your team, is more conductive to champinship level aspirations than a guy like Young.

Since you think Young can't be the second or even third best player on a championship team, it makes perfect sense that you wouldn't want the Spurs to get him at all.

[MannyIsGod]

If you want to build a championship core, I don't think a guy like Trae Young gets it done. Not as a second option, nor third. In fact, the lower he gets into the ranks within the team, the less useful he gets. I would argue having Herb as the 4th (or even 3rd) best player of your team, is more conductive to champinship level aspirations than a guy like Young.

So my reasoning is the following:

Herb or Young as your 2nd best player = no championship

Herb or Young as your 3rd best player = likely no championship either

Herb as your 4th best player = elite championship piece
Young as your 4th best player = an awful fit

That's why I would rather have a Herb Jones than a Trae Young if my aspiration is to build a championship core. If the aspiration is to get better sooner but never trully contend, then, yeah, go get Trae.

The idea that if I replace Jamal Murray with Trae Young that Denver is somehow a worse team last year is crazy to me.

[Chomag]

Unfortunately, others then getting lucky in the lottery ( emphasize lottery)I don't have any faith in this current FO putting together a competitive team.

The conservative approach will not work until they have at least a core and you can't build a core spending time developing scrubs.

[scott]

If you want to build a championship core, I don't think a guy like Trae Young gets it done. Not as a second option, nor third. In fact, the lower he gets into the ranks within the team, the less useful he gets. I would argue having Herb as the 4th (or even 3rd) best player of your team, is more conductive to champinship level aspirations than a guy like Young.

So my reasoning is the following:

Herb or Young as your 2nd best player = no championship

Herb or Young as your 3rd best player = likely no championship either

Herb as your 4th best player = elite championship piece
Young as your 4th best player = an awful fit

That's why I would rather have a Herb Jones than a Trae Young if my aspiration is to build a championship core. If the aspiration is to get better sooner but never trully contend, then, yeah, go get Trae.

The argument is wholly predicated on the fact that you don't like Young (which is completely fine). But replace Young with another all-star player and the argument starts to fall apart. I like the way you put it earlier: Trae raises your floor but Herb raises your ceiling. I think that is another way of saying that your stars set the range of outcomes - but all the complementary pieces are what fine tune and optimize your team and allow you to reach the upper range of outcomes that your stars provide. In the end, you need those stars AND you need those complementary pieces (duh), but a second star next to Wemby is going to elevate the range of outcomes for a Herb Jones-like player to help us optimize.

[MannyIsGod]

The argument is wholly predicated on the fact that you don't like Young (which is completely fine). But replace Young with another all-star player and the argument starts to fall apart. I like the way you put it earlier: Trae raises your floor but Herb raises your ceiling. I think that is another way of saying that your stars set the range of outcomes - but all the complementary pieces are what fine tune and optimize your team and allow you to reach the upper range of outcomes that your stars provide. In the end, you need those stars AND you need those complementary pieces (duh), but a second star next to Wemby is going to elevate the range of outcomes for a Herb Jones-like player to help us optimize.

This is a fantastic post. I get that Trae Young is not a good fit for every team out there but I just think people really need to stop the hyperbole around him. The idea that Young's deficiencies somehow make him unable to win a Championship in any scenario as a 2nd star is just insane to me. There have been other guards who have won as score first guards who aren't good defenders. The example of Jamal Murray above is one such player and one who is not nearly as good as Young on offensive!

Herb Jones and role players like him are valuable and vitally important but lets be real. There's a reason why players like Young get a max contracts and why players like Jones don't and it isn't because everyone else's evaluation systems are wrong.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The idea that if I replace Jamal Murray with Trae Young that Denver is somehow a worse team last year is crazy to me.

Well they would be worse because Murray is a better player. More efficient, better defender, and most importantly can play within a system instead of being the system. Oh and he has one more thing working for him - unlike Young, he raises his game in the playoffs.

[DAF86]

The idea that if I replace Jamal Murray with Trae Young that Denver is somehow a worse team last year is crazy to me.

Oh, but they would definitely be. Trae is worse at pretty much everything.

[DAF86]

The argument is wholly predicated on the fact that you don't like Young (which is completely fine). But replace Young with another all-star player and the argument starts to fall apart.

Well, yeah, but I'm not arguing I would rather add Herb Jones over any all-star. I'm saying I would rather add Herb Jones over what I consider extremely flawed all-stars like a Trae Young or prime Westbrook.


I like the way you put it earlier: Trae raises your floor but Herb raises your ceiling. I think that is another way of saying that your stars set the range of outcomes - but all the complementary pieces are what fine tune and optimize your team and allow you to reach the upper range of outcomes that your stars provide. In the end, you need those stars AND you need those complementary pieces (duh), but a second star next to Wemby is going to elevate the range of outcomes for a Herb Jones-like player to help us optimize.

Yeah, but not just any all-star. You have to choose the right ones, that's why I want no part of Trae Young.

[MannyIsGod]

Well they would be worse because Murray is a better player. More efficient, better defender, and most importantly can play within a system instead of being the system. Oh and he has one more thing working for him - unlike Young, he raises his game in the playoffs.

By all means make the statistical case for it because its not what I see when I look at the actual numbers. Jamal is a slightly better defender, I'll definitely grant you that, but Trae young's offensive numbers are substantially better and that is without the benefit of playing alongside Jokic (which also applies to the his defensive numbers FWIW).

[R. DeMurre]

You didn’t follow the conversation. I love Herb Jones, but DeMuure said the Pels wouldn’t take anything less than a star in return, which is just plain foolishness. Back in the day, no one would have traded Kobe or even Ray Allen for Bowen.


Just to be clear, I was responding to posts suggesting Herb could be had for Keldon Johnson + a FRP, and my point was he's valued in New Orleans and fits the team very well, so I don't think they'd include him in a trade unless it was as part of a package for a big upgrade. I wasn't saying that Herb is a star.

But I'd argue that another of his qualities is that as a defense first guy, he'll also never demand the salary that Trae can, as an offense first/little-to-no D guy. Adding Herb wouldn't handcuff a team financially the way a Trae contract would, either now or in the future.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, but they would definitely be. Trae is worse at pretty much everything.

You guys do realize that stats are a thing, right? That you can't just make shit up and it somehow becomes reality, right?

[DAF86]

You guys do realize that stats are a thing, right? That you can't just make shit up and it somehow becomes reality, right?

Well, isn't that an esqueletic ass analysis. :lol

Since when "more counting stats" = better player? Was Westbrook the best player in the World when he was averaging a 30pts triple double, or was he just a shameless statpadder?

Years of watching Duncan, Manu and Spurs basketball didn't teach you anything?

[DAF86]

By all means make the statistical case for it because its not what I see when I look at the actual numbers. Jamal is a slightly better defender, I'll definitely grant you that, but Trae young's offensive numbers are substantially better and that is without the benefit of playing alongside Jokic (which also applies to the his defensive numbers FWIW).

Do you really think Trae would be able to mantain his counting stats having to defer to Jokic?

[TD 21]

Yeah, but not just any all-star. You have to choose the right ones, that's why I want no part of Trae Young.

That's just it; you don't get to. No one in their right mind would pick Young or any small guard even near the top (now that Paul is ancient and Curry is old) if given their druthers, but it doesn't work that way.

Between that, having a GOAT caliber prospect, a desperate need for someone with his skillset and the goods to make the move, it's why the Spurs will be virtually forced to at least give it serious consideration if he becomes available.

[DAF86]

That's just it; you don't get to. No one in their right mind would pick Young or any small guard even near the top (now that Paul is ancient and Curry is old) if given their druthers, but it doesn't work that way.

Between that, having a GOAT caliber prospect, a desperate need for someone with his skillset and the goods to make the move, it's why the Spurs will be virtually forced to at least give it serious consideration if he becomes available.

I would rather wait a little before making a desperate move like that, tbh.

[fafo]

The idea of Trae Young to San Antonio gives me pause only because of the potentially hefty price tag, but why wouldn't he improve in San Antonio?

After Dejounte, who is the best teammate he's ever had? Bogdanovic? Jalen Johnson? Clint Capela? Atlanta has been AWFUL at surrounding him with talent. It's easy to point at his shooting percentages and wonder if he's overrated, but the team context has made it impossible for him to be more efficient. The one year that they advanced in the playoffs (2021 when they beat New York in convincing fashion and added fuel to the fire in Philly over Ben Simmons) was on Trae's back. Having Victor (and Vassell for that matter, in comparison to the talent in Atlanta) would make his life so much easier.

[Seventyniner]

Since when "more counting stats" = better player? Was Westbrook the best player in the World when he was averaging a 30pts triple double, or was he just a shameless statpadder?


Do you really think Trae would be able to mantain his counting stats having to defer to Jokic?

MannyIsGod didn't say counting stats. Only you did.

[DAF86]

The idea of Trae Young to San Antonio gives me pause only because of the potentially hefty price tag, but why wouldn't he improve in San Antonio?

After Dejounte, who is the best teammate he's ever had? Bogdanovic? Jalen Johnson? Clint Capela? Atlanta has been AWFUL at surrounding him with talent. It's easy to point at his shooting percentages and wonder if he's overrated, but the team context has made it impossible for him to be more efficient. The one year that they advanced in the playoffs (2021 when they beat New York in convincing fashion and added fuel to the fire in Philly over Ben Simmons) was on Trae's back. Having Victor (and Vassell for that matter, in comparison to the talent in Atlanta) would make his life so much easier.

That's what the Hawks' management thought Murray would also do and it turns out Trae can't play off ball.

[DAF86]

MannyIsGod didn't say counting stats. Only you did.

Well, I'm guessing he doesn't mean advanced metrics because Murray's are better.

[exstatic]

Do you really think Trae would be able to mantain his counting stats having to defer to Jokic?

Trae can’t play off the ball, which is why the Trae/DJ back court didn’t work. He and Jokic would be oil and water.

[TD 21]

I would rather wait a little before making a desperate move like that, tbh.

Fair enough (I'm on the fence myself), but it may not be available, to where virtually everything lines up, when it's "ideal".

As far as his willingness to defer, I wouldn't be concerned with that here. Everyone knows Wembanyama is going to be a much bigger star and I think he'd accept that and concede that it's "his franchise" because he was here first.

Him being the target defensively in the playoffs especially is obviously a concern, but many times throughout history people thought something couldn't win, until it did. If he's the second best player to the player with the GOAT defensive ceiling, maybe he can.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, I'm guessing he doesn't mean advanced metrics because Murray's are better.

Oh really? Cause that's not what BPM says. That's not what RAPTOR says. That's not what VORP says.

[DAF86]

Oh really? Cause that's not what BPM says. That's not what RAPTOR says. That's not what VORP says.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murraja01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngtr01.html

:lol

[DAF86]

Fair enough (I'm on the fence myself), but it may not be available, to where virtually everything lines up, when it's "ideal".

As far as his willingness to defer, I wouldn't be concerned with that here. Everyone knows Wembanyama is going to be a much bigger star and I think he'd accept that and concede that it's "his franchise" because he was here first.

Him being the target defensively in the playoffs especially is obviously a concern, but many times throughout history people thought something couldn't win, until it did. If he's the second best player to the player with the GOAT defensive ceiling, maybe he can.

I'm not concerned with that either. He's on record saying Wemby could be the GOAT and that he needs peeople that help him make his life easier. His mental willigness I don't doubt, what I question is his capacity to be efficient off ball. He checks out when he doesn't have the ball on his hands. He doesn't move, he doesn't cut. He just stands still 5 feet from the 3pt line being a non-factor. I guess that can be coached, but still.

[MannyIsGod]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murraja01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngtr01.html

:lol

Young OBPM this year 4.9
Murray OBPM this year 4.0

Overall BPM

Young 2.6
Murray 3.5



Last year

Young OBPM 5.3
Murray 2.6

Overall BPM

Young 3.3
Murray 1.3

Career OBPM

Young 5.2
Murray 1.8

Overall BPM

Young 3.0
Murray 0.8


Career DBPM

Young -2.2
Murray -1

Young is a worse defender and there's no denying that, but Murray is not a good defender and has a better defense around him that hides this. Young is a FAR better offensive player despite your claims otherwise and over their career Young is overall the better player and its not even close according to advanced stats.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, but they would definitely be. Trae is worse at pretty much everything.

And before you start moving the goal posts, this is the standard you set. Its demonstrably wrong.

[MannyIsGod]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

This is only previous seasons since 538 is a shell of its former self, but its the same shit as above.

Young

Off 4.9
Def -0.9
Tot 3.9

Murray

Off 3.6
Def -0.2
Tot 3.3


Same shit. So if by "pretty much everything" you mean nothing but defense then I concede. But basketball is more than just defense and it's not like Murray is a defensive player to begin with. He's a bit bigger but not really. He just has a shit ton of length around him and the best player in the NBA.

[DAF86]

Using career stats to try and save face after realizing Murray's metrics were better this year. :lol

Either way, this is still apples to oranges. I would like to see Young's metrics as a second option.

[DAF86]

And before you start moving the goal posts, this is the standard you set. Its demonstrably wrong.

How is it wrong? Murray is the better defender, the better off ball player, the more efficient shooter. The only advantages Young has are because of the higher usage.

[MannyIsGod]

Using career stats to try and save face after realizing Murray's metrics were better this year. :lol

Either way, this is still apples to oranges. I would like to see Young's metrics as a second option.

When did we limit it to one year? That's like me comparing the years Murray has been out. And even this year, Tre is better on the offensive side of the ball. I don't give a fuck about saving face, the stats are right there. I'm having in discussion in good faith not trying to one some imaginary contest where you make up the rules as you go along.

You clearly said Murray is better than Young as almost everything and even in THIS season, which is not what you said before, that is obviously wrong.

I'm not even a huge Young fan but you guys just fucking make up bullshit about him all the fucking time because you don't like him. The stats are right there. Keep making up bullshit if you want but its pretty damn transparent honestly. It makes for shit discussions when you all wont' even acknowledge reality.

[MannyIsGod]

How is it wrong? Murray is the better defender, the better off ball player, the more efficient shooter. The only advantages Young has are because of the higher usage.

First you want to talk about advanced stats and now you want to break up offense into sub categories. Murray isn't even the more efficient shooter! Young has a higher efg and true shooting. Like for fucks sake man. Murray is a league average 3 point shooter this year while Young is at 46%.

I don't have offball stats but I would be shocked if Young was better considering he doesn't play with this dude named Jokic, but the fact that even with that Young is substantially the betters shooter and you're trying to say otherwise is ridiculous.

[Dejounte]

First you want to talk about advanced stats and now you want to break up offense into sub categories. Murray isn't even the more efficient shooter! Young has a higher efg and true shooting. Like for fucks sake man. Murray is a league average 3 point shooter this year while Young is at 46%.

I don't have offball stats but I would be shocked if Young was better considering he doesn't play with this dude named Jokic, but the fact that even with that Young is substantially the betters shooter and you're trying to say otherwise is ridiculous.

DAF’s stuck in the past thinking the big three can be re-created just like that. And then you have these stat purists who say no to any player that doesn’t meet their criteria of uber-efficient players through their rudimentary understanding of stats.

[DAF86]

When did we limit it to one year? That's like me comparing the years Murray has been out. And even this year, Tre is better on the offensive side of the ball. I don't give a fuck about saving face, the stats are right there. I'm having in discussion in good faith not trying to one some imaginary contest where you make up the rules as you go along.

You clearly said Murray is better than Young as almost everything and even in THIS season, which is not what you said before, that is obviously wrong.

I'm not even a huge Young fan but you guys just fucking make up bullshit about him all the fucking time because you don't like him. The stats are right there. Keep making up bullshit if you want but its pretty damn transparent honestly. It makes for shit discussions when you all wont' even acknowledge reality.

I have no issue with Young, other than his game. Is that so difficult to comprehend? He's arguably the worst defender in the entire league, he has subpar efficiency for a star, he hasn't shown he can adapt to play off ball. Do you really have that hard of a time believing that there are many people that won't like that type of player?

[DAF86]

DAF’s stuck in the past thinking the big three can be re-created just like that. And then you have these stat purists who say no to any player that doesn’t meet their criteria of uber-efficient players through their rudimentary understanding of stats.

I don't want to re-create anything, I'm just not willing to settle for, arguably, the worst "star" out there. Why is that so difficult to understand? :lol

I have named plently of guys I'd be fine getting like Markkanen, Garland, Jrue Holiday, etc. In which ways would they re-create the big three? :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I have no issue with Young, other than his game. Is that so difficult to comprehend? He's arguably the worst defender in the entire league, he has subpar efficiency for a star, he hasn't shown he can adapt to play off ball. Do you really have that hard of a time believing that there are many people that won't like that type of player?

its not about liking him or not liking him its about how you guys just make up shit about him. He's is inarguably a bad defender. The stats and eye test bear this out quite clearly. Jamal Murry is a bad defender, too. But the game isn't just about defense. How good you are on offense matters.

And OF COURSE he's not an off ball player. This is quite honestly the stupidest line of criticism I've seen. Young is one of the best offensive players in the league and by FAR the best player on his team. Why would he be expected to play off ball when he's their best on ball player? Why would they put the ball in someone elses hands when they are better by having it in his hands?

Murray has a 27.1% usage. Tre is at 30%. OH NO THE INSANE USAGE DIFFERENCE.

[JeffDuncan]

How is it wrong? Murray is the better defender, the better off ball player, the more efficient shooter. The only advantages Young has are because of the higher usage.


There is something wrong with your head. You have obviously totally forgotten the point of talking about this.

The point is very tall, and one of his nicknames is Wemby.

Who has higher assist numbers, much higher in fact, Murray or Young?

Give an honest, straightforward answer to that question, and don’t lie.

So which of the two should be better, much better, at feeding Wemby?

That’s the point.

It isn’t about Murray and Young going 1 on 1 against each other. That has nothing to do with anything.

Are you really sure that the “only” advantage Young has is “higher usage?” Really?

You have so completely lost track that you’re going on about things without thinking about Wemby.

Ya dummy.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't want to re-create anything, I'm just not willing to settle for, arguably, the worst "star" out there. Why is that so difficult to understand? :lol

I have named plently of guys I'd be fine getting like Markkanen, Garland, Jrue Holiday, etc. In which ways would they re-create the big three? :lol

I mean if we're talking about players that aren't going to be moved then why limit it to these? I personally would love to see Wemby play with Anthony Edwards and I definitely would rather see than that Wemby with Young. Wemby Tatum would also be amazing. Wemby Luka!!! Wemby SGA would just be fucking great too. Wonder why we're not talking about any of these pairings and instead talking about Young?

[DAF86]

its not about liking him or not liking him its about how you guys just make up shit about him. He's is inarguably a bad defender. The stats and eye test bear this out quite clearly. Jamal Murry is a bad defender, too. But the game isn't just about defense. How good you are on offense matters.

What did I make up about him?


And OF COURSE he's not an off ball player. This is quite honestly the stupidest line of criticism I've seen. Young is one of the best offensive players in the league and by FAR the best player on his team. Why would he be expected to play off ball when he's their best on ball player? Why would they put the ball in someone elses hands when they are better by having it in his hands?

Well, we arguing his fit next to Wemby here. If he comes here, he's gonna be playing off ball a ton and so far he hasn't shown he can be efficient in that role.

[MannyIsGod]

What did I make up about him?



Well, we arguing his fit next to Wemby here. If he comes here, he's gonna be playing off ball a ton and so far he hasn't shown he can be efficient in that role.


.....why would you expect Young to play offball to Wemby? I definitely would not want that and I don't see how anyone who has watched Wemby this year thinks that would be a good idea.

[DAF86]

There is something wrong with your head. You have obviously totally forgotten the point of talking about this.

The point is very tall, and one of his nicknames is Wemby.

Who has higher assist numbers, much higher in fact, Murray or Young?

Give an honest, straightforward answer to that question, and don’t lie.

So which of the two should be better, much better, at feeding Wemby?

That’s the point.

It isn’t about Murray and Young going 1 on 1 against each other. That has nothing to do with anything.

Are you really sure that the “only” advantage Young has is “higher usage?” Really?

You have so completely lost track that you’re going on about things without thinking about Wemby.

Ya dummy.

This is such a dumb fucking post that I don't know why the fuck I take the time to answer seriously.

Having more assists doesn't equal being the better passer. Many times it means having the ball in your hands more. Dejounte in his last season with the Spurs averaged over 9 assists per game, as soon as he teamed up with Young, DJ's assists went down to 6. Did Murray suddenly became a lesser passer or did he just had the ball in his hands less?

It is laughable that this is the kind of basketball debate you have to have with some people here. And the funniest part is that he's the one callong others "dumb". :lol

[DAF86]

.....why would you expect Young to play offball to Wemby? I definitely would not want that and I don't see how anyone who has watched Wemby this year thinks that would be a good idea.

Because Wemby would be the #1 option and Trae the #2. Or do you want Young to suck the air out of the ball like he does in Atlanta while Wemby watches?

[tbdog]

That's what the Hawks' management thought Murray would also do and it turns out Trae can't play off ball.

No. Not really. Trae is one of the best on ball offensive players, but like Luka, he needs possessions off and that's when a secondary play maker is required, like Irving or Brunson. The same as prime LeBron, he always wanted another guard despite him being one of the best on ball players in history. The issue for Murray and the hawks was that they needed Murray to defend the best guards, which usually is the shooting guard. Tee can't guard down like Luka can just defend a shitty wing player. Murray can't defend 2s as well as defending 1s. And the hawks have no flexibility on the roster to deal with that issue. That's the issue, Murray can't coexist with Trae on defense. You can say that's Trae fault, sure. But the Hawks blew their load on the wrong player.

[tbdog]

Because Wemby would be the #1 option and Trae the #2. Or do you want Young to suck the air out of the ball like he does in Atlanta while Wemby watches?

That two man game though.

[JeffDuncan]

This is such a dumb fucking post …



Meaning your own, you’re right. You wrote a dumb fucking post. And not for the first time.



Having more assists doesn't equal being the better passer. Many times it means having the ball in your hands more. …



You claim that the reason Jokic has such fine assist numbers isn’t because he’s a great passer, it’s only because he gets his hands on the ball a lot.

You moron.

(Trae Young has a higher AST% this season than Jokic, btw.)


… Dejounte in his last season with the Spurs averaged over 9 assists per game, as soon as he teamed up with Young, DJ's assists went down to 6. …



Would Trae Young become the shooting guard if he joined the Spurs?

Nice try at changing the subject. You moron.

The funniest thing is how you wrote that with no regard at all for the change of position. Looks like you don’t care about a change of position. You need to go back to those posts you’ve made where you’ve been so insistent that Wemby must be a center, and apologize, and tell everyone you’ve now concluded that position doesn’t matter.

So go do that now.

The argument you have presented is basically: ‘higher assist numbers don’t mean a player is a better passer, because DeJounte Murray became a shooting guard.’

You moron.



It is laughable that this is the kind of basketball debate you have to have with some people here. And the funniest part is that he's the one callong others "dumb". :lol


Nice try, spunky. Ya dumbass.

And even though the entire reason for the discussion is possible teammates for Wemby, you wrote another post where you didn’t mention Wemby at all.

You moron.

Jamal Murray has an AST% of 31.2.

Trae Young has an AST% of 44.4.

Which of those two is more likely to get an assist to Wemby on a typical possession?

Can you answer that? Or are you truly nothing but a dumbass?

[heyheymymy]

1. Tre Jones - $ 9.1
2. Blake Wesley - $ 2.6 (team option)
3. Devin Vassell - $ 29.3
4. Malaki Branham - $ 3.2 (team option)
5. Keldon Johnson - $ 19.0
6. Julian Champagnie - $ 3.0 (not fully guaranteed)
7. Sidy Cissoko - $ 1.8
8. Jeremy Sochan - $ 5.5 (team option)
9. Victor Wembanyama - $ 12.7
10. Zach Collins - $ 16.7
11. Charles Bassey - $ 2.5 (not fully guaranteed)

12. (Dominick Barlow) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
13. (Cedi Osman) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
14. (Sandro Mamuklashvili) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
15. (Devontae' Graham) - $ 12.6 (not fully guaranteed)

16. Two-Way 1
17. Two-Way 2
18. Two-Way 3

Total Salary = $91.6 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024. add 9.6 + the 3.0 = 12.6 if Graham isn't waived by July 1, 2024

Total Salary = $108.4 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey

[heyheymymy]

Thoughts:


Check my math/roster lol open to any clarifications corrections and thoughts here thanks

Looks like you could have the 2 slots freed up for SA FRP and potential TOR FRP by not bringing back Mamu and Graham

Feels like you must pursue the return of Osman. I could see differing opinions on ST but Osman seems like the type of guy Spurs love and he seems to fit the role and brings zero drama good locker room vibes. Feels like the slight upgrade to Doug role.

Feels like Barlow will hold his slot and be brought back as well. He’s done well and shown those hints of capabilities worth further exploration. Again, Spurs type and someone the FO historically sticks with so I expect Barlow to return.

Feels like you could waive Bassey but I think the FO typically sticks with guys in these injury situations and seemed high on Bassey too. Would free up a slot.

Suppose if you really want to clean house you could clear like up to 5 slots by some or all of not bringing back Mamu, waiving Cissoko, cutting before full guarantee Bassey, Champ, and Graham plus add another 2 for a total of 7 opened slots by not bringing back Osman and Barlow as well. Some combination of this will happen but you see tons of flexibility there whatever it ends up being.

Clear up to 7 slots and still keep Wesley, Branham and Sochan plus core guys Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Wemby and Collins with 7 slots to fill from draft and FA.

A Euro Stash activates a 19th roster slot correct me if I’m wrong. Something to keep in mind for the 2RPs

You can distribute Graham’s approx $2.8-3.0 guaranteed portion at approx $0.944 each season over the next 3 seasons, I believe.

[heyheymymy]

Here is the Rookie pay scale:

1st: $10,132,300
2nd: $9,065,600
3rd: $8,141,200
4th: $7,340,000
5th: $6,646,800
6th: $6,037,000
7th: $5,511,000
8th: $5,048,800
9th: $4,640,900
10th: $4,408,800

Say SA gets TOR that’s about two top 10 picks. Say it’s #4 & #8. That’s $7.3 plus $5.0 = $12.3 added to salary.

Takes you to $121.7 / $141.0 salary cap for:

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed 3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey
-plus hypothetical FRP #4 & FRP #8

Jones/FRP/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Keldon/FRP/Champ/Cissoko
Sochan/Osman/Barlow
Wemby/Zollins/Bassey

3 Two-Ways

for $121.7 plus Osman and Barlow offers and Two-Way amounts / $141.0 salary cap

Waive say Bassey in this scenario and add a say, $8-14MM free agent and still hit cap

[rankingtear]

There is too much emphasis on assist to Wemby. What Wemby actually wants is a huge part of decision making. The thing most of Trae teammates complain about.

[Proxy]

highly doubt trae is dumb to the point where he wouldn't understand he'd be the robin to wemby, anyone that thinks trae would be selfish to that point is delusional

[Proxy]

trae and wemby could both get their numbers. trae getting his shots and assist, wemby getting his defense stats and post positioning

[exstatic]

1. Tre Jones - $ 9.1
2. Blake Wesley - $ 2.6 (team option)
3. Devin Vassell - $ 29.3
4. Malaki Branham - $ 3.2 (team option)
5. Keldon Johnson - $ 19.0
6. Julian Champagnie - $ 3.0 (not fully guaranteed)
7. Sidy Cissoko - $ 1.8
8. Jeremy Sochan - $ 5.5 (team option)
9. Victor Wembanyama - $ 12.7
10. Zach Collins - $ 16.7
11. Charles Bassey - $ 2.5 (not fully guaranteed)

12. (Dominick Barlow) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
13. (Cedi Osman) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
14. (Sandro Mamuklashvili) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
15. (Devontae' Graham) - $ 12.6 (not fully guaranteed)

16. Two-Way 1
17. Two-Way 2
18. Two-Way 3

Total Salary = $91.6 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024. add 9.6 + the 3.0 = 12.6 if Graham isn't waived by July 1, 2024

Total Salary = $108.4 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey

Just to be clear, rookie scale contracts are iron clad guaranteed for years one and two, but the options are offset. After year one,you have to decide on the year THREE option, and after year two, the year FOUR option. The year three options for Sochan, Malaki, and Wesley have already been exercised last fall. This fall, after year two, they decide on the year four options.

[exstatic]

1. Tre Jones - $ 9.1
2. Blake Wesley - $ 2.6 (team option)
3. Devin Vassell - $ 29.3
4. Malaki Branham - $ 3.2 (team option)
5. Keldon Johnson - $ 19.0
6. Julian Champagnie - $ 3.0 (not fully guaranteed)
7. Sidy Cissoko - $ 1.8
8. Jeremy Sochan - $ 5.5 (team option)
9. Victor Wembanyama - $ 12.7
10. Zach Collins - $ 16.7
11. Charles Bassey - $ 2.5 (not fully guaranteed)

12. (Dominick Barlow) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
13. (Cedi Osman) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
14. (Sandro Mamuklashvili) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
15. (Devontae' Graham) - $ 12.6 (not fully guaranteed)

16. Two-Way 1
17. Two-Way 2
18. Two-Way 3

Total Salary = $91.6 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024. add 9.6 + the 3.0 = 12.6 if Graham isn't waived by July 1, 2024

Total Salary = $108.4 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey

Just to be clear, rookie scale contracts are iron clad guaranteed for years one and two, but the options are offset. After year one,you have to decide on the year THREE option, and after year two, the year FOUR option. The year three options for Sochan, Malaki, and Wesley have already been exercised last fall. This fall, after year two, they decide on the year four options.

[spurraider21]

Because Wemby would be the #1 option and Trae the #2. Or do you want Young to suck the air out of the ball like he does in Atlanta while Wemby watches?
Malone was the #1 option and Stockton was very much on ball. same with stoudemire/nash

[heyheymymy]

Jones/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Champagnie/Johnson/Sissoko
Sochan/
Wemby/Zollins/Bassey

TOTAL: $118.4 / $141.0 salary cap

Plus $7.3 for say a #4 FRP plus $5.0 for say a #8 FRP = $12.3 added to salary.

TOTAL: $130.7 / $141.0 salary cap

That gives $10.3MM left under cap to pay Graham's guaranteed portion (~3.0MM), sign Barlow, possibly Osman, Two-Way contracts and/or any possible free agents pending roster avail. Not even mentioning 2RPs depending on freeing up existing roster slots.

2024-2025

Jones/FRP/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
FRP/Johnson/Champagnie/Sissoko
Sochan/Osman/Barlow
Wemby/Zollins/Bassey

Possibly trade Keldon plus sweetners or don't bring Champ back and use the salary/vacancy to bring back an established player in trade or sign a target free agent?

[heyheymymy]

thanks ex

EDIT: Indeed Sochan, Branham and Wesley options exercised October 23, 2023

[Silverheart80]

Well, yeah, but I'm not arguing I would rather add Herb Jones over any all-star. I'm saying I would rather add Herb Jones over what I consider extremely flawed all-stars like a Trae Young or prime Westbrook.



Yeah, but not just any all-star. You have to choose the right ones, that's why I want no part of Trae Young.

Pretty much.

If the Spurs could acquire Herb Jones in a trade without giving up most of their future prime draft assets -- yeah, sure. Pull the trigger.

Chances are slim he'll be available unless the Pels implode in the first round, get smashed by big margins, and their chemistry unravels. Even then, I don't see them cutting Herb Jones loose, unless management panics. AND YET every year, at least one or two playoff teams grossly underperform and wanna "shake things up", come summertime. They panic. A key player that was unavailable at the end of the regular season suddenly becomes trade bait. So yeah, if you're rooting for Herb Jones to be a Spur, then I guess root for the Pels to be obliterated in the playoffs.

Trae Young is a waste of conversation. Currently, he's surrounded by a strong defensive backcourt partner, a shot blocking big man, plus sharpshooters and he's still in the lottery. ATL is not going to cut him loose to the Spurs without demanding their draft assets back. Spurs own the Hawks' future. Use that advantage wisely. Ice Trae's defense is garbage. Spurs' team defense is already bad enough. If the mission is to build a team around VW that can potentially win multiple rings, Trae's not the answer.

[pad300]

...
A Euro Stash activates a 19th roster slot correct me if I’m wrong. Something to keep in mind for the 2RPs
...


Could you expand on what this is and how it works (or provide a link)?

If, for example, we drafted Topic with our highest (or only) FRP, and he was willing to take this stash option, what would happen? Could he play in Euroleague? Would he count on our payroll for the year (lux tax)? Would the year count against his rookie contract?

[heyheymymy]

Correct me if I’m wrong but "Euro" Stash retains the rights to sign that player while they sign with and play for any non-NBA team for up to 3 years, I believe. They don't count against salary (the other team is paying) or roster capacity, I believe.
Rights are tradable. I think it's usually second round. Seems highly unlikely Topic would agree to that but you never know, his situation is so unique maybe it's possible but highly doubtful.

[MannyIsGod]

Because Wemby would be the #1 option and Trae the #2. Or do you want Young to suck the air out of the ball like he does in Atlanta while Wemby watches?

Why is this some given? Trae is currently by far the better of the two offensively and its not some given Wemby is that good ever. Wemby is going to be a very good player on both sides of the court, but his role with Trae would be one where he can receive lobs and other passes to put him in position to score easily. It would make zero sense to have Young defer to him.

[DPG21920]

Here is the Rookie pay scale:

1st: $10,132,300
2nd: $9,065,600
3rd: $8,141,200
4th: $7,340,000
5th: $6,646,800
6th: $6,037,000
7th: $5,511,000
8th: $5,048,800
9th: $4,640,900
10th: $4,408,800

Say SA gets TOR that’s about two top 10 picks. Say it’s #4 & #8. That’s $7.3 plus $5.0 = $12.3 added to salary.

Takes you to $121.7 / $141.0 salary cap for:

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed 3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey
-plus hypothetical FRP #4 & FRP #8

Jones/FRP/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Keldon/FRP/Champ/Cissoko
Sochan/Osman/Barlow
Wemby/Zollins/Bassey

3 Two-Ways

for $121.7 plus Osman and Barlow offers and Two-Way amounts / $141.0 salary cap

Waive say Bassey in this scenario and add a say, $8-14MM free agent and still hit cap


Spurs have a ton of 2nd round picks - if they need cap space trading Collins even if you have to attach 2 2nds should not be that hard IMO. Of course there is always the trade Keldon route too where you may be able to get something back vs sending picks out like with Collins.

[DPG21920]

Malone was the #1 option and Stockton was very much on ball. same with stoudemire/nash

This is true but everything we’ve seen from SA seems to indicate they would not have that same type of setup/offense so it becomes a question on if that is true, how much of Trae’s value then gets somewhat negated because Spurs aren’t just going to have a ball dominant PG like Nash style offense but a free flowing one where ball is moving with a lot of guys who can initiate beyond just carrying the ball up the court.

[DPG21920]

Why is this some given? Trae is currently by far the better of the two offensively and its not some given Wemby is that good ever. Wemby is going to be a very good player on both sides of the court, but his role with Trae would be one where he can receive lobs and other passes to put him in position to score easily. It would make zero sense to have Young defer to him.

Ehhhh….I mean I see what you are saying but IMO Spurs are clearly building for the future and in that scenario Wemby has to grow and get the reps even if technically at this point in time Trae is better

[MannyIsGod]

Ehhhh….I mean I see what you are saying but IMO Spurs are clearly building for the future and in that scenario Wemby has to grow and get the reps even if technically at this point in time Trae is better

Well in a scenario where they get Young I don't think they're taking their time building for the future and letting Wemby learn on the court at the expense of the team. Wemby is a great player and I think he has the chance to be the best player in the NBA but I don't think its a given or even likely that he ever develops into a better offensive player than Young. That's not because I don't expect Wemby to be good but rather because not many players ever get that good on offense.

[DPG21920]

Well in a scenario where they get Young I don't think they're taking their time building for the future and letting Wemby learn on the court at the expense of the team. Wemby is a great player and I think he has the chance to be the best player in the NBA but I don't think its a given or even likely that he ever develops into a better offensive player than Young. That's not because I don't expect Wemby to be good but rather because not many players ever get that good on offense.

I think Wemby has more than shown enough on offense already that hes worth betting on there. It’s also why I think Spurs will zero % go after Trae. Of course I can be wrong and I will root for him if they decide that’s what they think is best, but I don’t think they go for him due to the stuff im saying (Wemby being the number one option as the only way to win a title + if that’s true Traes value being severely negated in that scenario = not worth paying price to get him)

[BacktoBasics]

Well in a scenario where they get Young I don't think they're taking their time building for the future and letting Wemby learn on the court at the expense of the team. Wemby is a great player and I think he has the chance to be the best player in the NBA but I don't think its a given or even likely that he ever develops into a better offensive player than Young. That's not because I don't expect Wemby to be good but rather because not many players ever get that good on offense.

Just the reality that Trae is a ball dominant player with handles alone solidifies that point. No matter how good Wemby is he's not going to be a PG dictating pace.

[MannyIsGod]

I think Wemby has more than shown enough on offense already that hes worth betting on there. It’s also why I think Spurs will zero % go after Trae. Of course I can be wrong and I will root for him if they decide that’s what they think is best, but I don’t think they go for him due to the stuff im saying (Wemby being the number one option as the only way to win a title + if that’s true Traes value being severely negated in that scenario = not worth paying price to get him)

I mean its a pretty safe bet to say the Spurs won't get Young. That's by far the likeliest scenario here. I'm not betting against, Wemby being a great offensive player either! But if Wemby ever has as season above .40 from 3 and an assist percentage that high while limiting turnovers I'll be very surprised. I do think Wemby could have some monster offensive seasons but I do think they'll likely take a very good facilitator.

[exstatic]

Malone was the #1 option and Stockton was very much on ball. same with stoudemire/nash

Trae is not Stockton, not even close.