Call Your Ideal Off-Season

[Pauleta14]

Ya - I think theres pros and cons. Keldon is a very good player, still young and a legit scorer and 6th man. Spurs should not be in a rush to move him or get off his deal. I do think something like pick 5 is fair value in terms of one-for-one so that part is fine.

It’s more of a question of what doing something like that allows. I would be interested because as much as I like Keldon, I would personally prefer someone with more defensive upside alongside better passing (even though Keldon really improved there). He’s not a 3PT ace so it’s not like losing him hurts things there that much; but it does hurt overall offense and scoring punch.

But if you now have no Keldon (salary absorbed by DET here) + picks 4, 5 and 8 now, you get a lot of space (not just for this year, but next year too when it may matter more) and now you can really take some shots at a guard and maybe 2 wings?

Reed + Holland + Buzelis?

Risacher + Reed + Dillingham?


Does replacing Graham + Keldon + Cedi with one of those 2 combos set the team up better long term and get you more well rounded players net/net with also more flexibility going into off season now and next season?

If that type of transaction happens, it'll mean PATFO is going for another soft tank (which is very possible considering the ridiculous talent in 25')

Other than specific skills, this team is missing experience (and BBIQ which doesn't help my case with Keldon, I'll admit ^^)

Point is, I don't see them adding that many rookies from at best an average draft. I see them giving Keldon one last season to see real impovements before using his friendly contract in a trade and drafting 2 future role players to develop.

We might have too much time in our hands before the draft and reading some ideas, some'd be fine adding 4-5 rookies to the youngest roster in the league... :lol

Each time Pop was asked about the absence of veteran experience, he justified it by them taking ONE season to observe. That implies that once it's done, that basic requierement for a team will be fulfilled no?

It makes this summer (draft & trades) so intriguing tbh, forget PATFO's narrative in future interviews, we'll know what their real goal is (tank or PO) with the moves they make.

[mo7888]

The DET trade for Keldon is enticing not because I love this draft, but because its a clean reset of money/cap space that allows you to replace Keldon immediately (not via draft, but Im talking right now in FA) and get a more versatile team and bump 2 guys down rotation and open up real minutes for those who earn it.

But I also see reason not to do it too…Keldon is a very good player and his contract is not something that is negative at all *needing* to be moved. Guess it depends on which way SA wants to go, but theres pros and cons to the deal like all deals.

What about Keldon to POR for Brogdon + 14? You get your vet guard stop gap and additional lottery pick.

Could end up with something like:

Castle at 4, Cody Williams at 8, Bub Carrington at 14 and Brogdon as your vet PG starter stop gap?

That adds two nice guards for your future and a vet to basically phase out Graham/Cedi/Branham/Blake (unless they leap) and you add a nice wing to your stable to grow with team and replace Keldon.

I like the Portland trade better than the Detroit ones. I think it'd look like KJ + 8 + Cha for Brogdon + 7 + 14

Draft Castle + Reed + Williams/ Filipowski etc

[jjspur]

Lmao Giddey.
OKC had four shooters around him and he still got benched in Mavs series.
Shot 3/16 from deep over 7 games.
And you'd start him together with Sochan. :lmao

Not to mention that he's got just one year left on his rookie deal and would have to be extended.


And yeah, he likes underage girls.

Go ahead and laugh, but at least he can pass inbounds and be a defensive disrupter, unlike some of our players. Like all players, Giddey has his strengths and weaknesses (we can work on that) but it seems you're also laughing at Sochan - that's funny too except he's already on our team and will be looking to extend soon. :lmao Giddey however would be an improvement over some of last years players, even with his bad shooting.

As for the young gals, who knows what they do in the land down under - need to ask Brett Brown about that one.

[DPG21920]

If that type of transaction happens, it'll mean PATFO is going for another soft tank (which is very possible considering the ridiculous talent in 25')

Other than specific skills, this team is missing experience (and BBIQ which doesn't help my case with Keldon, I'll admit ^^)

Point is, I don't see them adding that many rookies from at best an average draft. I see them giving Keldon one last season to see real impovements before using his friendly contract in a trade and drafting 2 future role players to develop.

We might have too much time in our hands before the draft and reading some ideas, some'd be fine adding 4-5 rookies to the youngest roster in the league... :lol

Each time Pop was asked about the absence of veteran experience, he justified it by them taking ONE season to observe. That implies that once it's done, that basic requierement for a team will be fulfilled no?

It makes this summer (draft & trades) so intriguing tbh, forget PATFO's narrative in future interviews, we'll know what their real goal is (tank or PO) with the moves they make.

Ehhh…I mean you can still add 2 vets no prob. Most of the guys Im talking about replacing out of the rotation (Blake, Branham, Keldon) are all relatively young too with issues. So it’s about long term still and getting players that fit Wemby better and are more well rounded with better upside too.

[DPG21920]

I like the Portland trade better than the Detroit ones. I think it'd look like KJ + 8 + Cha for Brogdon + 7 + 14

Draft Castle + Reed + Williams/ Filipowski etc

Yup - Ive talked about that one too. Would love that deal.

[scott]

Personally I’d be shocked if Keldon could fetch number 5 pre-draft, even in a class like this one. I think Keldon’s value is probably more along the lines of 1 unprotected FRP from a playoff-bound team at the deadline (very similar to what we got for DWhite, less the swap. I think Keldon is not as valuable as White was at the time of that trade). Just imvho

[DPG21920]

Personally I’d be shocked if Keldon could fetch number 5 pre-draft, even in a class like this one. I think Keldon’s value is probably more along the lines of 1 unprotected FRP from a playoff-bound team at the deadline (very similar to what we got for DWhite, less the swap. I think Keldon is not as valuable as White was at the time of that trade). Just imvho

I dont know. I think when you put it as the pick it sounds worse. But if you say would DET trade Buzelis for Keldon? I think that makes it more clear how the value is and Keldon without a doubt is much better than Buzelis right now, there’s plenty of tape on him and he is still young and locked up on a very solid deal.

For a team like DET that is probably very tired of losing and still wants to sort stay young, I think framed like that it makes plenty of sense (and most DET fans I talk to seemingly would leap at that deal)

[Chinook]

Has anyone mentioned this idea yet?

Trades:


Spurs trade 4, 8, ATL25, ATL27, Collins and Wesley
Hawks trade Murray. 1 and SAC 25
This feels rich, but that depends on how much the Spurs value the first-overall pick. In this scenario, the Spurs are using it to take Risacher. Because they are able to move Collins and Wesley for Murray, they are both able to keep Johnson and use cap space.


Spurs trade DeVonte Graham, cash and second to Detroit for a fake second


Draft:


Spurs select Risacher at 1
Spurs select Simpson at 35
Spurs select Chomche at 48 (two way)


Free Agency:


Spurs sign Malik Monk to $100M/4
Spurs sign Bamba for $7M/2
Spurs re-sign Mamukelashvili for $14M/3


Roster:


Murray, Jones, Simpson
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Risacher, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Mamukelashvili Cissoko
Wembanyama, Bassey, Bamba


Comments:


Well this is a pretty strong all-in move. The Spurs are still left with 2-4 2025 picks, so not all is lost. But this only really make sense if the Spurs want Sarr or Risacher. I personally don't see the need, so I'd want the team to at least hold onto 8, but people on here have proposed more substantial trades that don't bring in a starting PG and SF while still leaving room to create a strong bench unit. I'm a bit scared of the bench defense given how shaky the center spot is. If Bassey is healthy, he can help Jones on that end. But Monk/Johnson/Mamu core inspires no confidence. Maybe the Spurs can use the room exception to bring in a real backup center rather than paying Mamu. The team can use the room exception to take a player back in trade too, and there might be somewhat overpaid centers on other teams who could be had for nothing or for seconds.


All in all, it's a pretty sustainable roster given how many assets they traded away. Murray (especially in this case since his kicker basically has to be waived for the trade to be legal), Vassell and Johnson are all on lower-cost long-term deals. Wemby, Sochan and Risacher are on rookie deals. Jones is the only flight risk, and hopefully Simpson can move up in that spot. It's hard for me to believe it has a ton of upside outside of Wemby eating some rare candies and jumping multiple tiers. Risacher doesn't seem to have a ton of star potential, and Vassell is likely not going to get there. They'd probably need another big move to get that second star, but if that's the case, I don't see how they justify trading so many picks.

[Chinook]

Personally I’d be shocked if Keldon could fetch number 5 pre-draft, even in a class like this one. I think Keldon’s value is probably more along the lines of 1 unprotected FRP from a playoff-bound team at the deadline (very similar to what we got for DWhite, less the swap. I think Keldon is not as valuable as White was at the time of that trade). Just imvho

Something I do wonder about is Johnson, Bassey and 35 for Lopez and 23. The Bucks apparently are trying to add a younger forward in place of Lopez so they can play Giannis at the 5 more. Keldon gives them that option, and Bassey adds some depth for them. The issue is that Doc Rivers is the guy who let go of Bassey (and Champangie), so he may not really value getting them on cheap contracts. I wouldn't mind one of Branham or Wesley going out, but ideally, the Spurs would be able to use a trade exception to bring Lopez in so they could keep their cap space open for another deal. If they can find a taker for Collins (maybe using 8 with Zach to bring in another player), it could end up leading to a better roster.

[scott]

Has anyone mentioned this idea yet?

Trades:


Spurs trade 4, 8, ATL25, ATL27, Collins and Wesley
Hawks trade Murray. 1 and SAC 25
This feels rich, but that depends on how much the Spurs value the first-overall pick. In this scenario, the Spurs are using it to take Risacher. Because they are able to move Collins and Wesley for Murray, they are both able to keep Johnson and use cap space.


Spurs trade DeVonte Graham, cash and second to Detroit for a fake second


Draft:


Spurs select Risacher at 1
Spurs select Simpson at 35
Spurs select Chomche at 48 (two way)


Free Agency:


Spurs sign Malik Monk to $100M/4
Spurs sign Bamba for $7M/2
Spurs re-sign Mamukelashvili for $14M/3


Roster:


Murray, Jones, Simpson
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Risacher, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Mamukelashvili Cissoko
Wembanyama, Bassey, Bamba


Comments:


Well this is a pretty strong all-in move. The Spurs are still left with 2-4 2025 picks, so not all is lost. But this only really make sense if the Spurs want Sarr or Risacher. I personally don't see the need, so I'd want the team to at least hold onto 8, but people on here have proposed more substantial trades that don't bring in a starting PG and SF while still leaving room to create a strong bench unit. I'm a bit scared of the bench defense given how shaky the center spot is. If Bassey is healthy, he can help Jones on that end. But Monk/Johnson/Mamu core inspires no confidence. Maybe the Spurs can use the room exception to bring in a real backup center rather than paying Mamu. The team can use the room exception to take a player back in trade too, and there might be somewhat overpaid centers on other teams who could be had for nothing or for seconds.


All in all, it's a pretty sustainable roster given how many assets they traded away. Murray (especially in this case since his kicker basically has to be waived for the trade to be legal), Vassell and Johnson are all on lower-cost long-term deals. Wemby, Sochan and Risacher are on rookie deals. Jones is the only flight risk, and hopefully Simpson can move up in that spot. It's hard for me to believe it has a ton of upside outside of Wemby eating some rare candies and jumping multiple tiers. Risacher doesn't seem to have a ton of star potential, and Vassell is likely not going to get there. They'd probably need another big move to get that second star, but if that's the case, I don't see how they justify trading so many picks.

I threw up the something similar to the ATL trade a few pages ago (which I later caveated as something I don’t actually want to do, was just throwing some creative ideas out there). Personally I’d only be okay with 4 and 8 going out for 1 if it was also part of some package that brought DJM or Trae here as well (I personally prefer DJM).

I still don’t actually want to do this… but I like the scenario you threw out there. Still leaves us with bullets in the chamber for future drafts (and I’m slightly less optimistic on the ATL picks than others here) and leaves us some other trade assets like Keldon and even Vassell if necessary.

With that said, I don’t see Risacher as enough of an upgrade over any other wings in this draft (and in fact he isn’t even my highest rated wing) to want to do this.

[scott]

Has anyone mentioned this idea yet?

Trades:


Spurs trade 4, 8, ATL25, ATL27, Collins and Wesley
Hawks trade Murray. 1 and SAC 25
This feels rich, but that depends on how much the Spurs value the first-overall pick. In this scenario, the Spurs are using it to take Risacher. Because they are able to move Collins and Wesley for Murray, they are both able to keep Johnson and use cap space.


Spurs trade DeVonte Graham, cash and second to Detroit for a fake second


Draft:


Spurs select Risacher at 1
Spurs select Simpson at 35
Spurs select Chomche at 48 (two way)


Free Agency:


Spurs sign Malik Monk to $100M/4
Spurs sign Bamba for $7M/2
Spurs re-sign Mamukelashvili for $14M/3


Roster:


Murray, Jones, Simpson
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Risacher, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Mamukelashvili Cissoko
Wembanyama, Bassey, Bamba


Comments:


Well this is a pretty strong all-in move. The Spurs are still left with 2-4 2025 picks, so not all is lost. But this only really make sense if the Spurs want Sarr or Risacher. I personally don't see the need, so I'd want the team to at least hold onto 8, but people on here have proposed more substantial trades that don't bring in a starting PG and SF while still leaving room to create a strong bench unit. I'm a bit scared of the bench defense given how shaky the center spot is. If Bassey is healthy, he can help Jones on that end. But Monk/Johnson/Mamu core inspires no confidence. Maybe the Spurs can use the room exception to bring in a real backup center rather than paying Mamu. The team can use the room exception to take a player back in trade too, and there might be somewhat overpaid centers on other teams who could be had for nothing or for seconds.


All in all, it's a pretty sustainable roster given how many assets they traded away. Murray (especially in this case since his kicker basically has to be waived for the trade to be legal), Vassell and Johnson are all on lower-cost long-term deals. Wemby, Sochan and Risacher are on rookie deals. Jones is the only flight risk, and hopefully Simpson can move up in that spot. It's hard for me to believe it has a ton of upside outside of Wemby eating some rare candies and jumping multiple tiers. Risacher doesn't seem to have a ton of star potential, and Vassell is likely not going to get there. They'd probably need another big move to get that second star, but if that's the case, I don't see how they justify trading so many picks.

I threw up the something similar to the ATL trade a few pages ago (which I later caveated as something I don’t actually want to do, was just throwing some creative ideas out there). Personally I’d only be okay with 4 and 8 going out for 1 if it was also part of some package that brought DJM or Trae here as well (I personally prefer DJM).

I still don’t actually want to do this… but I like the scenario you threw out there. Still leaves us with bullets in the chamber for future drafts (and I’m slightly less optimistic on the ATL picks than others here) and leaves us some other trade assets like Keldon and even Vassell if necessary.

With that said, I don’t see Risacher as enough of an upgrade over any other wings in this draft (and in fact he isn’t even my highest rated wing) to want to do this.

[TD 21]

Not bad, except the Hawks, who'd be trading down to 4 to select Clingan and who already have Capela and Okongwu, probably only even consider taking Collins if the Spurs take Capela (with Graham included to make the math work).

I'd haggle with the Hawks '25 1st as opposed to '26, but ultimately it'd be tough to say no to getting a starting PG and SF who fit well and still have a significant amount of draft capital left over.

The Bucks trade makes no sense for either team though and I don't buy the Antetokounmpo at center notion, nor was Rivers responsible for releasing Bassey/Champagnie. Last I checked, Morey was/is the POBO.

[DPG21920]

Has anyone mentioned this idea yet?

Trades:


Spurs trade 4, 8, ATL25, ATL27, Collins and Wesley
Hawks trade Murray. 1 and SAC 25
This feels rich, but that depends on how much the Spurs value the first-overall pick. In this scenario, the Spurs are using it to take Risacher. Because they are able to move Collins and Wesley for Murray, they are both able to keep Johnson and use cap space.


Spurs trade DeVonte Graham, cash and second to Detroit for a fake second


Draft:


Spurs select Risacher at 1
Spurs select Simpson at 35
Spurs select Chomche at 48 (two way)


Free Agency:


Spurs sign Malik Monk to $100M/4
Spurs sign Bamba for $7M/2
Spurs re-sign Mamukelashvili for $14M/3


Roster:


Murray, Jones, Simpson
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Risacher, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Mamukelashvili Cissoko
Wembanyama, Bassey, Bamba


Comments:


Well this is a pretty strong all-in move. The Spurs are still left with 2-4 2025 picks, so not all is lost. But this only really make sense if the Spurs want Sarr or Risacher. I personally don't see the need, so I'd want the team to at least hold onto 8, but people on here have proposed more substantial trades that don't bring in a starting PG and SF while still leaving room to create a strong bench unit. I'm a bit scared of the bench defense given how shaky the center spot is. If Bassey is healthy, he can help Jones on that end. But Monk/Johnson/Mamu core inspires no confidence. Maybe the Spurs can use the room exception to bring in a real backup center rather than paying Mamu. The team can use the room exception to take a player back in trade too, and there might be somewhat overpaid centers on other teams who could be had for nothing or for seconds.


All in all, it's a pretty sustainable roster given how many assets they traded away. Murray (especially in this case since his kicker basically has to be waived for the trade to be legal), Vassell and Johnson are all on lower-cost long-term deals. Wemby, Sochan and Risacher are on rookie deals. Jones is the only flight risk, and hopefully Simpson can move up in that spot. It's hard for me to believe it has a ton of upside outside of Wemby eating some rare candies and jumping multiple tiers. Risacher doesn't seem to have a ton of star potential, and Vassell is likely not going to get there. They'd probably need another big move to get that second star, but if that's the case, I don't see how they justify trading so many picks.

I dont really want to do any sort of this, but if we did I would honestly rather keep 4 and 8 then.

[Ignazzz]

Hawks - no
Trading away one Of the PG star is big hit for management. Adding 1st pick overal same transaction is suicide from marketing perspective. Never happen.

[exstatic]

No Edey. No Knecht. No Collier. I think I could Live with just about anything else.

[Pauleta14]

Ehhh…I mean you can still add 2 vets no prob. Most of the guys Im talking about replacing out of the rotation (Blake, Branham, Keldon) are all relatively young too with issues. So it’s about long term still and getting players that fit Wemby better and are more well rounded with better upside too.

I'm talking about the overall impact of too many rookies added to an already (too) young roster. Keldon is entering his 5th season and his experience starts to become valuable despite all his imperfections and Pop seems to like Brahman a lot and I can see him waiting the end of next season to make a decision.
Blake is gone I agree

It's of course dependant on market opportunities and shouldn't be done just by principle. But the team needs some "been there done that" players as much as specific skills.

We'll see but "knowing" Pop and listening to almost all his interviews, I feel like he wants to be as patient as he can be on Vassell Sochan Keldon or even Brahman's development and will only trade them for a unique opportunity (same way he did with George Hill)

[exstatic]

I'm talking about the overall impact of too many rookies added to an already (too) young roster. Keldon is entering his 5th season and his experience starts to become valuable despite all his imperfections and Pop seems to like Brahman a lot and I can see him waiting the end of next season to make a decision.
Blake is gone I agree

It's of course dependant on market opportunities and shouldn't be done just by principle. But the team needs some "been there done that" players as much as specific skills.

We'll see but "knowing" Pop and listening to almost all his interviews, I feel like he wants to be as patient as he can be on Vassell Sochan Keldon or even Brahman's development and will only trade them for a unique opportunity (same way he did with George Hill)

First round picks and their contracts are weird. They come in with two years fully guaranteed, but after year one,you have to decide the option for year THREE, and after year two, the option for year FOUR. Not picking up either of those options means the player plays for a season, knowing he’s not in your plans. You can also only pay him his option amount if you change your mind, where other teams can steal him with a bigger offer if he breaks out. That limitation also applies to any team you may trade him to, diminishing his value on that front.

[Pauleta14]

First round picks and their contracts are weird. They come in with two years fully guaranteed, but after year one,you have to decide the option for year THREE, and after year two, the option for year FOUR. Not picking up either of those options means the player plays for a season, knowing he’s not in your plans. You can also only pay him his option amount if you change your mind, where other teams can steal him with a bigger offer if he breaks out. That limitation also applies to any team you may trade him to, diminishing his value on that front.

I agree with DPG on the idea that we need diff player with skills more adapted to Wemby and hope for a reasonable turnover.

I was just puting myself in PATFO's shoes. I'm afraid we won't see as many changes as we hope mainly for the reasons I mentioned

We'll see. It's the most interesting off season in decades in so many aspects tbh

[DPG21920]

No Edey. No Knecht. No Collier. I think I could Live with just about anything else.

I’d be fine with Collier (not preferred) compared to the others. Hard no on other. Hope no on Collier

[mo7888]

I’d be fine with Collier (not preferred) compared to the others. Hard no on other. Hope no on Collier

Depends on where we're talking about picking for me. I'm OK with Edey if somehow we acquire a late teen pick. I'm fine with Knecht at 8 (although he's not my preference). All I feel like I'm give up with him is upside and with this draft most pf the upside guys at 8 are probably less likely to reach it than Knecht is to reaching a solid floor. On Collier, I'd rather go elsewhere, bit in this draft, I could see reaching.

[spurraider21]

Not bad, except the Hawks, who'd be trading down to 4 to select Clingan and who already have Capela and Okongwu, probably only even consider taking Collins if the Spurs take Capela (with Graham included to make the math work).

I'd haggle with the Hawks '25 1st as opposed to '26, but ultimately it'd be tough to say no to getting a starting PG and SF who fit well and still have a significant amount of draft capital left over.

The Bucks trade makes no sense for either team though and I don't buy the Antetokounmpo at center notion, nor was Rivers responsible for releasing Bassey/Champagnie. Last I checked, Morey was/is the POBO.
capela is on the outs there, so imo its really just okongwu

[Mr. Body]

No Edey. No Knecht. No Collier. I think I could Live with just about anything else.

I'd take Knecht or Edey if I had to, and then if it's getting kicked in the nuts or Collier I'd think about it.

[TD 21]

capela is on the outs there, so imo its really just okongwu

I know, but it's highly unlikely they have him out of the rotation period.

[spurraider21]

I know, but it's highly unlikely they have him out of the rotation period.
think they dump him like they did collins

[buttsR4rebounding]

People are sleeping on Edey. In the right situation he's my pick for ROY.

[venitian navigator]

My ideal off season is to trade for draft picks in this draft so Wemby gm can be completely at work and no first me ego nba player is on the walk of a well costructed nba team with future championship goal.

My wiew is that ideal trade partners could be Portland (because they probably want badly to get rid of DAY and want at the same time some more options in the 2025 draft than this one) and Chicago (because they probably prefer too the 2025 draft, they are not going to tank so they're at big risk of losing 2025 draft choice and have injured player Ball to trade).

So first trade is :


SA gets DAY, 7th and 14th draft picks in 2024 draft Portland gets KJ, Collins, Charlotte pick in 2025 (lottery protected), 2024 SA end LAK second rounders



second trade is

SA gets Lonzo Ball 2024 Chi Pick (number 11) Chicago gets Devonte Graham, (+ Malaki Braham only if necessary), 2025 Chicago pick (top 10 protected)

This way we could end with picks 4, 7, 8, 11 and 14.


players remaining before drafting

x Vassell x Wemby x
Tre Jones (Graham) Champagne Sochan Barlow
Ball (cut?) x Wesley (or x) Cissoko x DAY (cut?) x

Considering the high chance of cutting one or both Ball and DAY, we remain with high chance to full the 5/6 xes with picks or free agents (imho for example Osman did well and could be resigned to a good price)

potential targets with picks


4) Castle/Risacher/Sheppard
7) Castle/Risacher/Sheppard/Salaun/Buzelis/C. Williams/Knecht
8) Edey
11) Salaun/Buzelis/C. Williams/ Knecht/Carter/Da Silva/ Missi
14) draft guard forward or big man depending of the previous choices; could be available (order from guards to forwards to big men) Carter, Dillingham, Topic, Knecht, Walter, Salaun, Buzelis, C. Williams, Da Silva, Missi, Kl Ware etc etc


Considering the high amount of variables depending who we're allowed to draft, this could be a possible outcome:

Castle/Sheppard Vassell Risacher/Buzelis Wemby Edey
TreJones Graham Salaun Sochan DAY (Barlow)
Ball/Wesley Cissoko Champagnie Osman Barlow (DAY)


That would be ideal imho because:

1)We preserve most of our draft choices for future drafts (expecially ours and Atlanta ones)
2)We can try multiple ways of playing (from really mall to really big)
3)We preserve the chance to play Wemby whenever (he will be tired after olimpic games and should be treted cautiously), and wherever Pop and he prefers and the same for Pop to choose depending by the situations to play him as a (small or big) forward or center
4)We take Ball and DAY contracts respectively for one and two years but we can easily afford that and, in case thinghs go really wrong, cut them whenever we prefer; in case thinghs go well or extremely well, play them and see what they can give and if they're compatible with the team's future (they both are not extremely old and are both veterans with some experience)
5) The team so builded is from the start a more than decent team, just needing some playing time and experience (a lot of promising rookies) but with obvious strenghts (Big men Wemby and Edey together are gonna be a nightmare for opposing defensive teams) and possible improvements on defense and playmaking (see Castle/Sheppard and possibly Risacher/Sheppard or Castle/Risacher or Castle/Buzelis or Sheppard/Buzelis or Castle(Sheppard)/Williams combos) and possibly also on outside shooting (possible Sheppard/Risacher or Williams combo).

[Indianman]

Why would we want Lonzo Ball?

[venitian navigator]

Why would we want Lonzo Ball?

only because, in my wiew, we want Chicago 2024 draft pick...then if Ball solves his injury problems and can play again (very very very difficult it happens, so the decision from Chicago to get rid of him and his 2024 salary) he could become a good part of the team or a treadable piece...

[Indianman]

Is the price worth it though? What is his contract situation?

[venitian navigator]

Its one year left. Player option (he will obviously take it) at 21 millions...
DAY has 2 years at more than 30 millions x year...
In both situations, in my wiew, the price is high but we do it because of the draft picks....the picks are the real price Portland and Chicago have to pay and if the players we can receive by these picks are, for our FO (and Wemby), worth to be drafted in a perspective to be good pieces for a contending team in a not so distant future (two to five years, considering also the future picks we're gonna draft in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028 etc...till 2030), then the price to pay is more than right...

[Pauleta14]

only because, in my wiew, we want Chicago 2024 draft pick...then if Ball solves his injury problems and can play again (very very very difficult it happens, so the decision from Chicago to get rid of him and his 2024 salary) he could become a good part of the team or a treadable piece...


Brother, you want to add up to FIVE (!!) rookies to develop to the youngest roster of the league?

It's just not realistic, even if they're more talented they'll also discover NBA and the pro life etc you need a balance in the roster and PATFO know they need to add experience.

[venitian navigator]

Brother, you want to add up to FIVE (!!) rookies to develop to the youngest roster of the league?

It's just not realistic, even if they're more talented they'll also discover NBA and the pro life etc you need a balance in the roster and PATFO know they need to add experience.

it depends what's your goal for next season...do you really want to be a for sure playoff team in the year after the olimpics (with Wemby probably going all in till the finals) in a draft like 2025 where a lot of lottery talent is available?
Do you really want some supposedly entitled veteran in the first year of his coming to Spurs become a voice lauder than Wemby's one?

Imho next 2 years will be the really last "rebuilding ones" and once you've obtained the sufficient young talent then the next step (in 2025) will be adding the necessary veterans ... that will be much more happy to come in a so strongly builded team.

[Pauleta14]

it depends what's your goal for next season...do you really want to be a for sure playoff team in the year after the olimpics (with Wemby probably going all in till the finals) in a draft like 2025 where a lot of lottery talent is available?
Do you really want some supposedly entitled veteran in the first year of his coming to Spurs become a voice lauder than Wemby's one?

Imho next 2 years will be the really last "rebuilding ones" and once you've obtained the sufficient young talent then the next step (in 2025) will be adding the necessary veterans ... that will be much more happy to come in a so strongly builded team.

The rebuilding started last season, 4-5 rookies would have a step back effect. I expect the team to improve. Not putting any specific target. I'm sure Wemby and other players do to.

It's going to be very difficult to tank with Wemby's defensive impact and Pop said multiple times that the absence of veterans was due to ONE season of observation.

I'm not even talking about what I think should be done, I'm saying it doesn't match PATFO's narrative and supposed timeline

I see the Spurs adding a few bricks to the built, a couple rookies to dev + a cple new players with more exp (depending on opportunities) to integrate.

Then you have guys like Champagnie and Brahman who are cheap enough to be worth the patience one more season to see if they show real long term potential (again, not my pov, putting myself in PATFO's shoes/logic)

I just don't see it and would be very surprised. If it was 25' type of quality draft why not, but an average one...

[venitian navigator]

I understand your pov and in fact my reasoning was about the comparison between the 2 drafts....what is already being said, is that our FO values this draft more than others FO....and imho they have good reasons to to so, because there are imho not only there are a lot of decent prospects with a very good complementary skills, character and behavior bit also a lot of french guys.
You also have to consider that next year (draft 2025) we could anyway benefcit of 4 first round picks (our, Atlanta, Chicago and Charlotte) presumably not higher than the ones we have in my perspective and possibly not that better than the ones you can get with the picks I "buyed" using some of the 2025 picks (the less valueable Chicago top 10 protected and Charlotte lottery protected).
So imho the "process" of adding draft picks should come in a striong way this year and the next one go one with the cahnce to decide to improve via draft (quality) or trades (veterans) or free agency (veterans)...
As you can see by the amount of draft picks we already have in next 2/3 years, the rebuilding process via draft is in any case in full development...so I just say the sooner the better and in 2024 we could gain not only very good quantity but possibly quality too (5 first rounds, total 5 players, instead of 2 first and 2 seconds, total four player that in any case we already have)...

[Pauleta14]

I understand your pov and in fact my reasoning was about the comparison between the 2 drafts....what is already being said, is that our FO values this draft more than others FO....and imho they have good reasons to to so, because there are imho not only there are a lot of decent prospects with a very good complementary skills, character and behavior bit also a lot of french guys.
You also have to consider that next year (draft 2025) we could anyway benefcit of 4 first round picks (our, Atlanta, Chicago and Charlotte) presumably not higher than the ones we have in my perspective and possibly not that better than the ones you can get with the picks I "buyed" using some of the 2025 picks (the less valueable Chicago top 10 protected and Charlotte lottery protected).
So imho the "process" of adding draft picks should come in a striong way this year and the next one go one with the cahnce to decide to improve via draft (quality) or trades (veterans) or free agency (veterans)...
As you can see by the amount of draft picks we already have in next 2/3 years, the rebuilding process via draft is in any case in full development...so I just say the sooner the better and in 2024 we could gain not only very good quantity but possibly quality too (5 first rounds, total 5 players, instead of 2 first and 2 seconds, total four player that in any case we already have)...

Maybe, we'll see. It's tough to read tbh

This summer is so interesting just to see more clearly what are PATFO's timeline and strategy depending on their draft choices and moves on the market.

Right now the gap between scenarios among Spurs fans and observers is absurd/hillarious

[stnick2261]

Somehow Zaccharie Risacher drops to 4th and Stephon Castle drops to 8th. We don't do anything else this off season.

Summer '25, We get lucky with ping pong balls again... not the top pick, but 2 picks high enough to draft Nolan Traore and Ace Bailey. We then get Lauri Markkanen in a sign and trade.

Traore / Castle
Vassell /
Ace / Risacher
Markkanen / Sochan
Wemby

Then we spend the next dozen years drafting at #30

[scott]

Another scenario that is a little different.

Draft Night Trade:

Spurs send #8, #35, Zach Collins, and the best of SA/ATL27
Jazz send: Lauri Markkanen and #29

Spurs Draft:

#4 Reed Sheppard
#29 Tyler Smith

Free Agency: Spurs sign Malik Monk

Off-season Trade:

Spurs Send: Devin Vassell, salary filler
Cleveland Send: Darius Garland

Spurs line next season:

Garland/Tre/Wesley
Monk/Sheppard/Branham
Markkanen/Johnson/Champ/Sissoko
Sochan/Tyler Smith
Wemby/Bassey/Mamu

Rationale:

With Garland and Lauri, Vassell becomes less important and I’m not super jazzed about having $29MM tied up in our 4th option. From Cleveland’s POV, draft capital is less important than a win-now player. Vassell would be a better fit next to Mitchell, so they do the straight up swap.

Reed Sheppard gives us a great shooting option off the bench and between he, Garland, Monk and Tre you have good ball handling locked up at the guard position. I am a little concerned about the lack of size at Guard though, and it could create some defensive issues.

Tyler Smith is a true stretch four and I would consider this a steal at 29.

[DPG21920]

Im still keeping an eye on Spurs and Detroit dealing. Same with Spurs and CHA….theres a lot of scenarios where SA moving up from 8 or acquiring an extra pick outright in addition to 4+8 makes sense to me.

[CGD]

^ I’m still not understanding the idea of overpaying now for Lauri. Unlike Young, Murray, and Garland, he is not cost controlled. I dont want the player but assuming I did, Utah’s position will only weaken as the year goes on. Just wait or make a play when he’s an UFA next summer.

[CGD]

Im still keeping an eye on Spurs and Detroit dealing. Same with Spurs and CHA….theres a lot of scenarios where SA moving up from 8 or acquiring an extra pick outright in addition to 4+8 makes sense to me.

Definitely think trading up from 8 to 5 or 6 are in play. If ZR and Castle are somehow both still there at 4, I think you need a trade with DET to get the other.

[LeBowen]

^ I’m still not understanding the idea of overpaying now for Lauri. Unlike Young, Murray, and Garland, he is not cost controlled. I dont want the player but assuming I did, Utah’s position will only weaken as the year goes on. Just wait or make a play when he’s an UFA next summer.

His value would be lower, but as it usually goes, more teams panic and overpay at the deadline.
No way Ainge allows him to become UFA.

[scott]

His value would be lower, but as it usually goes, more teams panic and overpay at the deadline.
No way Ainge allows him to become UFA.

Of course it's way too early to know who will have capspace next offseason, but my only thought is that Ainge get to the deadline and decide he's better off being S&T facilitator when Lauri is a UFA than taking whatever offers he has in front of him (though I do agree with you that this is highly unlikely - but I could see a scenario where it happens).

One benefit I see to acquiring Lauri now (or at the deadline), CGD is then you can go over the cap to resign him next offseason, as opposed to having to use available cap space (I think this is true - but if I'm wrong hopefully one of our cap experts could chime in).

[Seventyniner]

Im still keeping an eye on Spurs and Detroit dealing. Same with Spurs and CHA….theres a lot of scenarios where SA moving up from 8 or acquiring an extra pick outright in addition to 4+8 makes sense to me.

Do you think there would be a reason for the Spurs to trade #4 to one of those teams in return for their first and a minor asset?

[DPG21920]

Do you think there would be a reason for the Spurs to trade #4 to one of those teams in return for their first and a minor asset?

I could see it for sure. I dont think it would be that much so it may not be worth it, but if SA likes some non-traditional guys early (Cody Williams I could see, Carter etc…) then it would make sense for SA to move back a spot or two if they can get a heavily protected future first or something.

[scott]

I could see it for sure. I dont think it would be that much so it may not be worth it, but if SA likes some non-traditional guys early (Cody Williams I could see, Carter etc…) then it would make sense for SA to move back a spot or two if they can get a heavily protected future first or something.

With the leadership changes in DET, I wonder if something like 4 + Keldon for 5 + Ivey could be in play? I'd definitely say this is a little bit of wishful thinking on my part, but you never know when there is a major change in philosophy. Maybe DET like Castle to pair next to Cade and just wants to move off Ivey while adding some SF depth behind Ausar.

DET rotation could look like this:

Cade/Sasser
Castle/Grimes
Ausar/Keldon
Stewart/Fontecchio
Duren/Wiseman

Still pretty pathetic but at least it would be more rounded and have a defensive identity? Maybe include 35 to DET, since they don't have their own #31.

[Kevin]

We’re not getting Lauri for the 8 and a bad contract. Maybe the 4 & 8 straight up for Lauri but even that feels light given the awfulness of this years draft.

[scott]

We’re not getting Lauri for the 8 and a bad contract. Maybe the 4 & 8 straight up for Lauri but even that feels light given the awfulness of this years draft.

Then it's a good thing no one proposed that.

[Kevin]

Then it's a good thing no one proposed that.

Misread your post. Jazz might do that deal without Zollins and with the 4 instead of the 8.

[scott]

Let's look at the Pascal Siakam trade as a gauge of Lauri's value.

Siakam, like Lauri, was on an expiring that could not/cannot be extended by the acquiring team, meaning the acquiring team runs the risk of losing the acquired player via UFA. Both players will likely command $40MM/yr plus on their new deals.

Siakam got two 2024 picks (IND's own and the worst of Jazz/Clippers/Rockets/Thunder) and IND's 2026 protected 1-4 in 2026 (also protected 1-4 in 2027, then it becomes seconds). The Raptors also got some players that they don't really care about (with Bruce Brown on the hook for $23MM for another season).

At the time of the trade, Indiana was in the playoff picture and their pick could reasonably be expected to be somewhere around 20 or later (it finished #19). The Clippers and Thunder were some of the better teams in the league, so that pick would reasonably expected to be in the late 20s (it finished #29*).

What I'm proposing is actually roughly equivalent to the Siakam trade. The pick value I'm proposing is better (8 is better than 19 more than 29 is better than 35, and UTA would get fully unprotected of two teams, as opposed to just a Top4 protected of IND). This offsets the extra year half-season of negative Collins value versus Bruce Brown.

If we use the Siakam trade as a guide, 8 + 35 + Best of SA/ATL27 + Collins is about proper value (and I'd do it in a heart beat).

*Note, #29 later got sent from TOR to UTA along with Kira Lewis and Otto Porter for Kelly Olynyk and Ochai Agbaji. I never understood that trade. TOR seems to love spending late FRP's on marginally useful bigs.

[Kevin]

Pascal is three years older than Lauri, made twice as much money in the final year of his deal (18M versus 36M) and Lauri is a significantly better defender. Spurs have to beat that deal by fair amount all things considered.

[DPG21920]

With the leadership changes in DET, I wonder if something like 4 + Keldon for 5 + Ivey could be in play? I'd definitely say this is a little bit of wishful thinking on my part, but you never know when there is a major change in philosophy. Maybe DET like Castle to pair next to Cade and just wants to move off Ivey while adding some SF depth behind Ausar.

DET rotation could look like this:

Cade/Sasser
Castle/Grimes
Ausar/Keldon
Stewart/Fontecchio
Duren/Wiseman

Still pretty pathetic but at least it would be more rounded and have a defensive identity? Maybe include 35 to DET, since they don't have their own #31.

Ive been floated trades just like that….I think there is some real merit to that deal. Just have to see of course, but IMO something in that range, or even Keldon for pick 5 makes sense.

[KingKev]

Pascal is three years older than Lauri, made twice as much money in the final year of his deal (18M versus 36M) and Lauri is a significantly better defender. Spurs have to beat that deal by fair amount all things considered.

In terms of defense:


Siakim >>>> Lauri

[Chinook]

I was talking on RealGM, and an idea that came from that was:

NOP: Sexton and Zach Collins
Spurs: Clarkson
Jazz: McCollum

Trading Collins for a sixth man seems like a win, and it would make using a draft pick on a center or otherwise spending real money on one a viable idea. Like if they went weird and drafted Clingan and Carter, they'd have:

Jones, Clarkson, Wesley
Vassell, Carter, Branham
________, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, _________, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Clingan, Bassey

and they'd have about $25 Million in cap space and the RE to fill those last two spots. As far as who'd fill that, they could trade for Cam Johnson or try to sign Patrick Williams. Then the RE could be used on Mamu or Osman. Depending on what the trades would cost, it could be a solid off-season. But I don't see the same growth potential there as other mock off-seasons I've talked about. Carter and Clingan are solid picks who could fill the gaps well if the team had one last piece. But the lack of an impact forward looms large.

[Silverheart80]

The rebuilding started last season, 4-5 rookies would have a step back effect. I expect the team to improve. Not putting any specific target. I'm sure Wemby and other players do to.

It's going to be very difficult to tank with Wemby's defensive impact and Pop said multiple times that the absence of veterans was due to ONE season of observation.

I'm not even talking about what I think should be done, I'm saying it doesn't match PATFO's narrative and supposed timeline

I see the Spurs adding a few bricks to the built, a couple rookies to dev + a cple new players with more exp (depending on opportunities) to integrate.

Then you have guys like Champagnie and Brahman who are cheap enough to be worth the patience one more season to see if they show real long term potential (again, not my pov, putting myself in PATFO's shoes/logic)

I just don't see it and would be very surprised. If it was 25' type of quality draft why not, but an average one...

No. Evaluating was last season. Rebuilding begins in earnest this season.

Before 2023-24 began, PATFO publicly stated, "We want to see what we've got." And what they've got is a lot of veteran garbage.

Last season was the moment for Vassell to finally turn the corner, and he proved to be an awful decision-maker who isn't good at sharing the ball. Super-low BBIQ. Unable to create good shots for himself and teammates, which is why he took so many contested shots. He's not a leader. Keldon is limited as a scorer. Even more limited as a defender. Again, not a leader. Both have hit their ceiling, and neither is good enough to be a #2 or #3 option. 22 wins says as much.

Time to move on from them. And thus, rebuilding begins this season. There's no way this team can go forward with Vassell as a #2 or #3 option. He doesn't have the brains to carry the responsibility, which makes me sad to say because I was hopeful when the Spurs drafted him.

[Silverheart80]

"Call Your Ideal Off-Season"?

My ideal is:
1) Draft Sarr, by whatever trade is necessary
2) Draft Castle, by whatever trade is necessary
3) Trade Vassell, especially if it helps conserve future draft assets. Team BBIQ will immediately improve. Addition by subtraction.

I don't foresee the team finding a permanent point guard solution this off-season, much as it's wanted.

With this draft, the Spurs have the chance to build toward a ruthless set of long, switchable defensive starters. Sarr will end up being an NBA wing, not a center. Castle, the same, even though right now he says he wants to be a point guard. Love that mentality, but he's gonna end up as a wing. I think they're gonna develop into scoring threats that can space the floor, but it'll take time because they're still raw. They're gonna be immediate difference makers on defense. Put them with VW, and move Vassell and hopefully Keldon too, and we're building a foundation that can win championships. Scoring and creating shots (beyond VW) will probably continue to be a problem in 2024-25, but the Spurs will be a problem for the league with VW, Sarr, Castle, and Sochan, growing together as elite NBA defenders.

[LeBowen]

I was talking on RealGM, and an idea that came from that was:

NOP: Sexton and Zach Collins
Spurs: Clarkson
Jazz: McCollum



This makes no sense.
Spurs get a great 6th man for a negative asset they want to get rid of.
NOLA gets out of CJ's contract and replaces him with a younger CJ, pretty much.
Jazz gets McCollum for whatever reason?

RealGM has the most unrealistic trade ideas.
Did you maybe forget to add picks in that trade?


"Call Your Ideal Off-Season"?

My ideal is:
1) Draft Sarr, by whatever trade is necessary
2) Draft Castle, by whatever trade is necessary
3) Trade Vassell, especially if it helps conserve future draft assets. Team BBIQ will immediately improve. Addition by subtraction.

I don't foresee the team finding a permanent point guard solution this off-season, much as it's wanted.

With this draft, the Spurs have the chance to build toward a ruthless set of long, switchable defensive starters. Sarr will end up being an NBA wing, not a center. Castle, the same, even though right now he says he wants to be a point guard. Love that mentality, but he's gonna end up as a wing. I think they're gonna develop into scoring threats that can space the floor, but it'll take time because they're still raw. They're gonna be immediate difference makers on defense. Put them with VW, and move Vassell and hopefully Keldon too, and we're building a foundation that can win championships. Scoring and creating shots (beyond VW) will probably continue to be a problem in 2024-25, but the Spurs will be a problem for the league with VW, Sarr, Castle, and Sochan, growing together as elite NBA defenders.

Sorry, but you're proposing Spurs get rid of the only somewhat reliable shooter and have three non-shooters as key pieces next to Wemby?
Did Silver announce the removal of 3pt line or something? If he didn't, teams would legit give everyone on that roster Ben Simmons treatment.

[Silverheart80]

This makes no sense.
Spurs get a great 6th man for a negative asset they want to get rid of.
NOLA gets out of CJ's contract and replaces him with a younger CJ, pretty much.
Jazz gets McCollum for whatever reason?

RealGM has the most unrealistic trade ideas.
Did you maybe forget to add picks in that trade?



Sorry, but you're proposing Spurs get rid of the only somewhat reliable shooter and have three non-shooters as key pieces next to Wemby?
Did Silver announce the removal of 3pt line or something? If he didn't, teams would legit give everyone on that roster Ben Simmons treatment.

No one has said Sarr and Castle are non-shooters. They're not elite outside scorers at this early stage of development, but that doesn't mean they're non-shooters. Defense and high BBIQ still wins championships. Every time.

Sarr and Castle are super-raw as offensive players right now, but the ability is there for them to develop into scorers. It'll take time. The Spurs are a garbage defensive team, even with VW, and that needs to change immediately. They can't get stops because 'the only somewhat reliable shooter' and KJ (amongst others) can't reliably defend in key moments. They're just not smart basketball players. Sarr and Castle are. I know everyone wants elite scorers at every position around VW, but without defense beyond VW, we're nowhere, as evidenced by a 22-win season.

[LeBowen]

No one has said Sarr and Castle are non-shooters. They're not elite outside scorers at this early stage of development, but that doesn't mean they're non-shooters. Defense and high BBIQ still wins championships. Every time.


Why did Timberwolves lose to Dallas, then?
Or Heat to Denver in last year's finals?

Castle and Sarr are non-shooters for all intents and purposes.
As is Sochan. Every NBA player can hit a three here and there if left wide open, even the likes of Deandre Jordan.
But if opponents want you to shoot and don't even bother closing out, you're a non-shooter.

Take Derrick Jones Jr as an example. 39% on 3 attempts in these playoffs.
Hit only one 3pt in three finals games. Mavericks are instantly a different team without him being able to hit those shots.

PJ Washington is a tier better shooter, made 36% on 6.6 attempts per game before the finals.
28% in the finals and even that's inflated because his first makes were during that fake comeback in G3.

Defense still wins championships, but only if those defenders (read: Derrick and Jrue) can shoot. The game has evolved past just defense.


Sarr and Castle are super-raw as offensive players right now, but the ability is there for them to develop into scorers. It'll take time.

This is the fifth straight year in the lottery. Second longest streak after the Pistons.
Wemby is probably going to average like 25/12/5 with 4 blocks next season. You think he'll put up with two more years of garbage rosters and be happy with being this generation's KG?


The Spurs are a garbage defensive team, even with VW, and that needs to change immediately. They can't get stops because 'the only somewhat reliable shooter' and KJ (amongst others) can't reliably defend in key moments.

You want to turn us into current Orlando. Did you watch their series against Cleveland? Great defense, noone can shoot for shit. They lost to Cavs without Allen, with no legit wings and with undersized backcourt.


They're just not smart basketball players. Sarr and Castle are. I know everyone wants elite scorers at every position around VW, but without defense beyond VW, we're nowhere, as evidenced by a 22-win season.

We're nowhere because other than Wemby and Devin, noone else would get any minutes on a legit playoff team.
The entire roster is somewhere between subpar and awful defensively, but it was Collins who significantly tanked our defensive rating.
Replace him with an average backup rim-protector and Spurs instantly become average defensive team.
22nd in DRTG this season.
28th in 3pt%, despite being 16th in makes. Shoot enough volume, but noone can shoot for shit.

We shouldn't settle for one-dimensional players.
If we talk starting lineup, having more than one bad shooter around Wemby should never happen. Ideally you'd want everyone to shoot.
The same goes for defense. Can't have more than one bad defender.

[Silverheart80]

Why did Timberwolves lose to Dallas, then?
Or Heat to Denver in last year's finals?

Castle and Sarr are non-shooters for all intents and purposes.
As is Sochan. Every NBA player can hit a three here and there if left wide open, even the likes of Deandre Jordan.
But if opponents want you to shoot and don't even bother closing out, you're a non-shooter.

Take Derrick Jones Jr as an example. 39% on 3 attempts in these playoffs.
Hit only one 3pt in three finals games. Mavericks are instantly a different team without him being able to hit those shots.

PJ Washington is a tier better shooter, made 36% on 6.6 attempts per game before the finals.
28% in the finals and even that's inflated because his first makes were during that fake comeback in G3.

Defense still wins championships, but only if those defenders (read: Derrick and Jrue) can shoot. The game has evolved past just defense.



This is the fifth straight year in the lottery. Second longest streak after the Pistons.
Wemby is probably going to average like 25/12/5 with 4 blocks next season. You think he'll put up with two more years of garbage rosters and be happy with being this generation's KG?



You want to turn us into current Orlando. Did you watch their series against Cleveland? Great defense, noone can shoot for shit. They lost to Cavs without Allen, with no legit wings and with undersized backcourt.



We're nowhere because other than Wemby and Devin, noone else would get any minutes on a legit playoff team.
The entire roster is somewhere between subpar and awful defensively, but it was Collins who significantly tanked our defensive rating.
Replace him with an average backup rim-protector and Spurs instantly become average defensive team.
22nd in DRTG this season.
28th in 3pt%, despite being 16th in makes. Shoot enough volume, but noone can shoot for shit.

We shouldn't settle for one-dimensional players.
If we talk starting lineup, having more than one bad shooter around Wemby should never happen. Ideally you'd want everyone to shoot.
The same goes for defense. Can't have more than one bad defender.

I believe Sarr and Castle will eventually develop into offensive threats that play excellent defense. You don't.

They haven't played an NBA game yet. We'll see how it shakes out.

[LeBowen]

I believe Sarr and Castle will eventually develop into offensive threats that play excellent defense. You don't.

They haven't played an NBA game yet. We'll see how it shakes out.

They can develop into reasonable offensive threats, not legit scorers.

Fwiw, I'd draft Sarr at #4 if he's available by some miracle.
Would have him as Wemby's backup, guaranteeing 48 minutes of elite rim protection until he develops his offensive game.

[DPG21920]

Ive been floated trades just like that….I think there is some real merit to that deal. Just have to see of course, but IMO something in that range, or even Keldon for pick 5 makes sense.

My trade(s) with DET were Keldon for pick 5 outright, or Keldon + 8 for Ivey + 5. Keldon is better than Ivey so DET should be paying SA for that which is why they move back 3 spots IMO

[DPG21920]

I was talking on RealGM, and an idea that came from that was:

NOP: Sexton and Zach Collins
Spurs: Clarkson
Jazz: McCollum

Trading Collins for a sixth man seems like a win, and it would make using a draft pick on a center or otherwise spending real money on one a viable idea. Like if they went weird and drafted Clingan and Carter, they'd have:

Jones, Clarkson, Wesley
Vassell, Carter, Branham
________, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, _________, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Clingan, Bassey

and they'd have about $25 Million in cap space and the RE to fill those last two spots. As far as who'd fill that, they could trade for Cam Johnson or try to sign Patrick Williams. Then the RE could be used on Mamu or Osman. Depending on what the trades would cost, it could be a solid off-season. But I don't see the same growth potential there as other mock off-seasons I've talked about. Carter and Clingan are solid picks who could fill the gaps well if the team had one last piece. But the lack of an impact forward looms large.

I do that deal easily if I am SA.

[Seventyniner]

28th in 3pt%, despite being 16th in makes. Shoot enough volume, but noone can shoot for shit.

Just to nitpick a bit, the Spurs were 21st in threes made per 100 possessions. Raw makes is not a good stat because the Spurs played at such a fast pace.

[Chinook]

This makes no sense.
Spurs get a great 6th man for a negative asset they want to get rid of.
NOLA gets out of CJ's contract and replaces him with a younger CJ, pretty much.
Jazz gets McCollum for whatever reason?

RealGM has the most unrealistic trade ideas.
Did you maybe forget to add picks in that trade?

I think you might be overestimating the gap between Collins and Clarkson. Collins is a negative contract on the Spurs but would be in line to start on a friendlier roster in New Orleans. The Pelicans are adamant about acquiring a more mobile stretch center, and there just aren't that many to choose from. Clarkson is a good sixth man, but he's far from perfect. I would be willing to toss in incentive, but probably not what you assume would be required.

[LeBowen]

I think you might be overestimating the gap between Collins and Clarkson. Collins is a negative contract on the Spurs but would be in line to start on a friendlier roster in New Orleans. The Pelicans are adamant about acquiring a more mobile stretch center, and there just aren't that many to choose from. Clarkson is a good sixth man, but he's far from perfect. I would be willing to toss in incentive, but probably not what you assume would be required.

Just because Collins took threes it doesn't mean he's a stretch big.
My personal #1 priority for the roster going forward is to get rid of him.
Our roster has many players who aren't going to stay in the league for much longer, but Collins was easily worse than all of them.
Collins and Zion on the floor together would easily be the worst defensive frontcourt duo in the league.

Clarkson isn't perfect, but he'd be the best scorer on our team.

[TD 21]

A ludicrous proposal all the way around . . .

Sexton is basically a younger McCollum, which is to say not the play maker they need; though cheaper, younger and arguably better.

Collins provides no stretch, rim protection or defensive rebounding, all needs next to Williamson (I realize good luck checking all 3, but none?).

Clarkson entered his decline last season and wouldn't really check any box. I'd rather give Branham another shot than acquire him at this point.

Since McCollum is the inverse of what I said about Sexton, he doesn't do anything for them either other than make them older.

[KingKev]

Never been to big on this sort of research but Klay unfollowed the Warriors and deleted Warriors related content lol

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10124859-klay-thompson-unfollows-warriors-on-instagram-amid-nba-rumors-before-free-agency

I personally have always taken him as a whiny little hoe so this sounds like something he would do when he realized he isn’t getting his final bag there.

[Chinook]

Never been to big on this sort of research but Klay unfollowed the Warriors and deleted Warriors related content lol

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10124859-klay-thompson-unfollows-warriors-on-instagram-amid-nba-rumors-before-free-agency

I personally have always taken him as a whiny little hoe so this sounds like something he would do when he realized he isn’t getting his final bag there.

There's this extremely dillusional Warriors fan channel I stumbled on on YouTube that considers Klay staying a non-negotiable and believes GS can make moves to bring in stars around them. Like he thinks a team would trade the 16th-overall pick for Moody. Hilarious stuff.

[onechance87]

its about time warriors falling apart.Now is our time to return.Also seeing paul george and
clippers not on the same page for a contract.Would be awesome to see clippers,lakers,and
warriors all start to fade from contention.

[exstatic]

Do you think there would be a reason for the Spurs to trade #4 to one of those teams in return for their first and a minor asset?

I see no scenario where we trade back with 4. The look on BW’s face when the Spurs drew 4 at the lottery tells you how disappointed he was to not be picking higher. If they trade with Detroit or CHA,it will likely be 8 and then another asset to move up.

[DPG21920]

I see no scenario where we trade back with 4. The look on BW’s face when the Spurs drew 4 at the lottery tells you how disappointed he was to not be picking higher. If they trade with Detroit or CHA,it will likely be 8 and then another asset to move up.

Agree with this. DET and CHA are both clear candidates for Spurs to trade with here vs trading back. I wouldn’t be mad at a solid trade back but I dont think it’s most likely.

[Guru of Nothing]

Draft Castle and Knect.

Hold on to the Atlanta picks. I won't rehash Trae Young deals here, except to say I'm not opposed, but really not in favor either. If the ATL cache of picks were to be dealt, I'd rather go after Cade Cunningham. Imagine a backcourt rotation of Cade, Castle, and Vassell (make sure Vassell works for that next contract), with Tre Jones juicing the bench play.

Try to deal Chicago and Charlotte picks for a starting guard (assuming the Atlanta picks have not been dealt). Use Keldon to sweeten the deal


No bad contracts. I think the Zac Collins contract is a blessing in disguise. It reminded the front office of what not to do, without wrecking the franchise. Kind of like sticking a paper clip in an electrical socket. I would stick to low-key free-agent additions, with a moderate deal for Batum, or maybe even a heavy one-year contract for say 20M, with the idea that we see Sochan become fully actualized on the court. If I'm the owner, my only order to PATFO is no bad contracts.


Pains me to say it, but run back Branham and Wesley one more season. I'm not ready to give up on them yet. Likewise for Barlow; he's a bit of ugly duckling at the moment, but I swear I see somethng good in him on the court, like a Shane Battier. Bring back Mamu too for depth.

Advance in the play-in, play well in the first round of the playoffs and set the league on notice that that the Spurs will be owning this shit in 2026.

[offset formation]

I was talking on RealGM, and an idea that came from that was:

NOP: Sexton and Zach Collins
Spurs: Clarkson
Jazz: McCollum

Trading Collins for a sixth man seems like a win, and it would make using a draft pick on a center or otherwise spending real money on one a viable idea. Like if they went weird and drafted Clingan and Carter, they'd have:

Jones, Clarkson, Wesley
Vassell, Carter, Branham
________, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, _________, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Clingan, Bassey

and they'd have about $25 Million in cap space and the RE to fill those last two spots. As far as who'd fill that, they could trade for Cam Johnson or try to sign Patrick Williams. Then the RE could be used on Mamu or Osman. Depending on what the trades would cost, it could be a solid off-season. But I don't see the same growth potential there as other mock off-seasons I've talked about. Carter and Clingan are solid picks who could fill the gaps well if the team had one last piece. But the lack of an impact forward looms large.

I would LOVE to have Clarkson here! But I hate the idea of Jones being the starter in front of Clarkson. And you don't have Mamu in there either and to me he's a no brainer keeper over at least 4 or 5 other guys there

[NickiRasgo]

My ideal offseason is that Wemby won't get hurt in the Olympics.

[spurraider21]

I see no scenario where we trade back with 4. The look on BW’s face when the Spurs drew 4 at the lottery tells you how disappointed he was to not be picking higher. If they trade with Detroit or CHA,it will likely be 8 and then another asset to move up.
once you make it into the top 5 and get thru that commercial break, everybody looks disappointed when their name is called

[Chinook]

So I don't love this, but let's try a bit of a different off-season:


Trades:

Obligatory trade to get rid of Graham's guarantee

Draft:

At 4, Spurs select Risacher
At 8, Spurs select Salaun
At 35, Spurs select Chomche
At 48, Spurs select Shead (two-way)

Free Agency:

The Spurs trade Branham, Bassey and CHI25 for Immanuel Quickley (sign-and-trade) $120M/4
The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to $14M/2 deal with the second year not guaranteed.
The Spurs sign Tristan Newton to $5.8M/3
The Spurs signed Jesse Edwards and Jamison Battle to two-way contracts

Quickley, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Newton
Risacher, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Salaun, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Chomche

TW: Shead, Edwards, Battle

Comments:

I've never been a huge fan of Quickley, but I know a lot of folks on ST have been. Hopefully locking in a youngish PG on a below-max deal can make up for the team drafting front court players with their first three picks in one of the best PG drafts in a while. I don't love Salaun or Risacher, but it's hard to doubt the Spurs have invested at forward after this. Chomche is a wildcard, and it's may not be the best idea for him to be the third big with his inexperience, but the team has Battle as depth if need be and can shuffle their two-ways around to get more center minutes handled in a crisis. Is the upside there? Who knows? But the intrigue certainly is I fully expect Ujuri to draft Chomche at 31 if not 19, but if not, it's probably worth the gamble.

This trade gives the team a decent core of guys who are locked into affordable deals. Richardson comes back to be a good vet off the bench who seemed to love his time in SA. While they didn't get the young PG I wanted, they did bring in two high-floor prospects in Shead and Newton to compete with Wesley for what would be an open backup PG spot in 2025-2026 when Jones expires. Those guys almost work better if they sign Paul rather than Quickley. But I would only be amenable to Paul if the Spurs brought in a star vet wing like James, George, Leonard or Butler. Otherwise, I'd rather the team live within it means a bit.

As it stands, the Spurs would still have room to add a couple of guys in 2025 and would only gain more tradeable contracts with Quickley and Richardson. They remain a threat to make a huge move if the opportunity arises, but are not dependent on that type of move to start winning more games.

[CGD]

^ I’m of a different philosophy:

- use 2024 draft to either find good backcourt help and/or shore up the defense (read: Castle; Carter; Reed; McCain; Cody)

- find front court stopgals via free agency (Thobias; Batum) and other FA depth as needed (don’t dislike idea of Josh returning)

- cycle through Blake, Malachi, Bassey, Champ, Tre, Keldon.

- draft your wing/s of the future in 2025 when more are available.

[Chinook]

^ I’m of a different philosophy:

- use 2024 draft to either find good backcourt help and/or shore up the defense (read: Castle; Carter; Reed; McCain; Cody)

- find front court stopgals via free agency (Thobias; Batum) and other FA depth as needed (don’t dislike idea of Josh returning)

- cycle through Blake, Malachi, Bassey, Champ, Tre, Keldon.

- draft your wing/s of the future in 2025 when more are available.

I'm closer to this philosophy personally, but I've made like a half-dozen scenarios by this point and this was just one of them. I don't know that this draft's strength is in its wings. There are a lot of guards and bigs to choose from. At the same time, the team legit needs a starting SF and bench PF but only has limited means to do so if they don't want to create a new hole. The draft can help fill one of those holes, and then free agency could fill the other. I don't know that I would call a major free-agent signing a "stop-gap", because I don't believe the Spurs will draft/develop their entire rotation. I'd want whomever they sign to be a quality starter for 3-4 years with an absolute minimum of two years. I wouldn't put a Batum who's on the clear decline on that list just because he came alive during a play-in game.

I also think Jones and Johnson shouldn't be put into the same category as fringe rotation players. Jones was a quality rotation player last year and has now established a track record of being so. Johnson is controversial, but he's far more accomplished than those guys and was better than them at their age as well.

[spurraider21]

So I don't love this, but let's try a bit of a different off-season:
i usually enjoy chinook takes. lets see whats going on



Trades:

Obligatory trade to get rid of Graham's guarantee
https://media2.giphy.com/media/jRGGQMWvYvYraZ5kvI/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952d32ib5xtgt1jyet5lhahqldhgaam 31pwuutcfo71&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g


Draft:

At 4, Spurs select Risacher
https://media.tenor.com/GDhJPXWxgpgAAAAM/fyeah.gif


At 8, Spurs select Salaun
At 35, Spurs select Chomche
At 48, Spurs select Shead (two-way)
https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-20-2014/DNjSIt.gif


Free Agency:

The Spurs trade Branham, Bassey and CHI25 for Immanuel Quickley (sign-and-trade) $120M/4
The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to $14M/2 deal with the second year not guaranteed.
The Spurs sign Tristan Newton to $5.8M/3
The Spurs signed Jesse Edwards and Jamison Battle to two-way contracts
https://media.tenor.com/rKLBka9zl5UAAAAM/yeah-excellent.gif


Quickley, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Newton
Risacher, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Salaun, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Chomche

TW: Shead, Edwards, Battle

https://media3.giphy.com/media/BY8ORoRpnJDXeBNwxg/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952ojfg17d74cfv06hzefbojtmh6ts9o g1lc7gh8j3e&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g


Comments:

I've never been a huge fan of Quickley, but I know a lot of folks on ST have been. Hopefully locking in a youngish PG on a below-max deal can make up for the team drafting front court players with their first three picks in one of the best PG drafts in a while. I don't love Salaun or Risacher, but it's hard to doubt the Spurs have invested at forward after this. Chomche is a wildcard, and it's may not be the best idea for him to be the third big with his inexperience, but the team has Battle as depth if need be and can shuffle their two-ways around to get more center minutes handled in a crisis. Is the upside there? Who knows? But the intrigue certainly is I fully expect Ujuri to draft Chomche at 31 if not 19, but if not, it's probably worth the gamble.

This trade gives the team a decent core of guys who are locked into affordable deals. Richardson comes back to be a good vet off the bench who seemed to love his time in SA. While they didn't get the young PG I wanted, they did bring in two high-floor prospects in Shead and Newton to compete with Wesley for what would be an open backup PG spot in 2025-2026 when Jones expires. Those guys almost work better if they sign Paul rather than Quickley. But I would only be amenable to Paul if the Spurs brought in a star vet wing like James, George, Leonard or Butler. Otherwise, I'd rather the team live within it means a bit.

As it stands, the Spurs would still have room to add a couple of guys in 2025 and would only gain more tradeable contracts with Quickley and Richardson. They remain a threat to make a huge move if the opportunity arises, but are not dependent on that type of move to start winning more games.
between IQ/Risacher/Richardson its hard not to like this in the aggregate, even though im not a fan of all the moves, particularly salaun, chomche... nor am i at all intrigued by newton.

several tangible improvements, IQ can be around for a while, and the only future pick we give up to get it done is the protected pick which seems unlikely to convey next year at this point? still have ammo to remain flexible if some of the moves dont work out

[DPG21920]

I call this the rookie wave off season:

Take Risacher or Castle at 4

Trade Keldon + CHI pick for 5 and take Risacher or Castle

Take Carter at 8

See if NO truly wants to trade 21 for seconds and give them 35 + their own 2nds back and take Ja’Kobe as your new 6th man heater type (which also allows you to move Tre Jone if you need to for something of more value later)

Fully re-worked back court that pushes Branham/Blake out competency along with waiving Graham and draft Keldon replacement but that actually fits as a starter better due to shooting/size/defense

You also now have about 34M-ish in cap space since DET absorbs all of Keldons money and you put pick 5 salary slot in his place.

Take that money and go for OG?

Re-sign Mamu for depth.

Castle / Tre / Ja’Kobe

Vassell / Carter

OG / Champagnie

Sochan / Risacher / Mamu

Wemby / Collins / Bassey

You retain all of your own picks in this scenario along with all the ATL picks and other swaps SA has. You swap Keldon money + 15M for OG and get your longer term Keldon replacement in Risacher.

So question becomes would you rather have Keldon (19M) + maybe someone like Tobias Harris (15M) or just OG (34M)? I probably would rather have OG knowing that if injures happened you could slot Risascher in as a starter

Even if you cant land OG, Im still fine doing the 4 rookies and just starting Risacher and Spurs are now greatly positioned to still make trades with their picks and ability to absorb deals etc..or will be big players in next free agency.

[Chinook]

I keep thinking back to my idea of a young talented PG and a vet wing who help handle the play-making duties. Seeing SR21's combination of elation and disgust encouraged me to make another mock off-season.

Trades:
None:

Draft:

At 4, the Spurs draft Sheppard
At 8, the Spurs draft Williams
At 35, the Spurs draft Mitchell
At 48, the Spurs draft Ajinca (two-way or stash)

Free Agency:

Graham (guaranteed), Branham, Bassey (guaranteed), CHI25 and Chicago's second-round pick for DeMar DeRozan (sign-and-trade) at $81M/3 with the last year non-guaranteed.
The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to a $22M/3 deal (using part of the MLE) with a team option for the final season.
The Spurs sign Xavier Tillman to a $12M/2 deal (using remainder of the MLE) with a team option for the second year

Final Roster:

Sheppard, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Mitchell
Williams, Johnson, Champangie
DeRozan, Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Tillman

Comments:

Whether you think DMDR or Williams is the PF or SF, I don't care. Unless Jeremy comes with a much improved ability to space the floor, I don't think he and DeRozan work well together, but I actually like the fit with DeRozan being there to provide vertical pressure and help Sheppard run the offense while Williams and Vassell hold down the wings. Wemby would have three PnR partners and plenty of spacing around him even if DeRozan means it's not perfect. I'd worry about the defense, especially by replacing Sochan with DMDR, but hopefully Sheppard and Williams offset that. By all accounts, DeRozan is a tremendous mentor and locker-room presence. He's never shown to be a contending player, but either he'll adjust to being a contributor on a team with a clear superstar who isn't him, or his stint will only last for two seasons. Richardson is another familiar face who should help stabilize a second unit which actually has a lot of talent and may just need the time and run to take advantage of it. Tillman is expensive insurance, but his contract allow the Spurs to keep their trade options open.

I wish there was a more obvious choice to start at PF than Williams. That's the weakest part of this roster. If the Spurs could get Middleton or build a time machine to bring in 32-year-old Nic Batum, it would be much easier to build a rotation that could both challenge for a playoff birth next season and continue to develop key prospects. Sochan is talented, but he's not good enough to where the team can put starting him as a core part of their roster build. I don't love Williams as the guy to replace Jeremy in the first unit, but I don't love any player projected to drafted around 8 to do that. The middle of the draft has Holmes, Smith, Klintman, Mogbo and Ingram. The Spurs have 35 but shouldn't be looking for a starter there. If we're being honestly, Pop would probably start Jones, Vassell, DeRozan, Sochan and Wemby for 30 games despite the bad spacing turning winnable games into losses before benching Vassell for Champangie for a few more games and finally moving first Jones and then Sochan to the bench around the ASB. But the actual season mechanics are for a different thread.

[John B]

Castle at 4, Carter at 8.
Trade Keldon, Tre and FRP’s for Markkanen if he’s available

Castle, Carter, Vassell, Markkanen, Wemby

[DPG21920]

I keep thinking back to my idea of a young talented PG and a vet wing who help handle the play-making duties. Seeing SR21's combination of elation and disgust encouraged me to make another mock off-season.

Trades:
None:

Draft:

At 4, the Spurs draft Sheppard
At 8, the Spurs draft Williams
At 35, the Spurs draft Mitchell
At 48, the Spurs draft Ajinca (two-way or stash)

Graham (guaranteed), Branham, Bassey (guaranteed), CHI25 and Chicago's second-round pick for DeMar DeRozan (sign-and-trade) at $81M/3 with the last year non-guaranteed.
The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to a $22M/3 deal (using part of the MLE) with a team option for the final season.
The Spurs sign Xavier Tillman to a $12M/2 deal (using remainder of the MLE) with a team option for the second year

Sheppard, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Mitchell
Williams, Johnson, Champangie
DeRozan, Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Tillman

Comments:

Whether you think DMDR or Williams is the PF or SF, I don't care. Unless Jeremy comes with a much improved ability to space the floor, I don't think he and DeRozan work well together, but I actually like the fit with DeRozan being there to provide vertical pressure and help Sheppard run the offense while Williams and Vassell hold down the wings. Wemby would have three PnR partners and plenty of spacing around him even if DeRozan means it's not perfect. I'd worry about the defense, especially by replacing Sochan with DMDR, but hopefully Sheppard and Williams offset that. By all accounts, DeRozan is a tremendous mentor and locker-room presence. He's never shown to be a contending player, but either he'll adjust to being a contributor on a team with a clear superstar who isn't him, or his stint will only last for two seasons. Richardson is another familiar face who should help stabilize a second unit which actually has a lot of talent and may just need the time and run to take advantage of it. Tillman is expensive insurance, but his contract allow the Spurs to keep their trade options open.

I wish there was a more obvious choice to start at PF than Williams. That's the weakest part of this roster. If the Spurs could get Middleton or build a time machine to bring in 32-year-old Nic Batum, it would be much easier to build a rotation that could both challenge for a playoff birth next season and continue to develop key prospects. Sochan is talented, but he's not good enough to where the team can put starting him as a core part of their roster build. I don't love Williams as the guy to replace Jeremy in the first unit, but I don't love any player projected to drafted around 8 to do that. The middle of the draft has Holmes, Smith, Klintman, Mogbo and Ingram. The Spurs have 35 but shouldn't be looking for a starter there. If we're being honestly, Pop would probably start Jones, Vassell, DeRozan, Sochan and Wemby for 30 games despite the bad spacing turning winnable games into losses before benching Vassell for Champangie for a few more games and finally moving first Jones and then Sochan to the bench around the ASB. But the actual season mechanics are for a different thread.

I just really cant see going back to the DeRozan well…what about in this scenario if instead of going DeRozan, SA opts for a trade and grabs Jerami Grant? Take that same package you are offering for DeRozan (can change up some of course, but hypothetically if it took somewhat similar) and get Grant instead?

[Chinook]

I just really cant see going back to the DeRozan well…what about in this scenario if instead of going DeRozan, SA opts for a trade and grabs Jerami Grant? Take that same package you are offering for DeRozan (can change up some of course, but hypothetically if it took somewhat similar) and get Grant instead?

The Spurs would need to send out $22,293,104 to match Grant. That's a much harder ask than then $18, 367, 920 they're sending out in the DeRozan deal. That would mean adding two more cheap players or swapping in a rotation player. It's a much bigger talent drain for what I would consider to be a worse player and worse contract. Grant is signed for four more years rather than DeRozan's two, which is a negative in this case. The previous scenario basically gave the Spurs a reset button in 2026 with DeRozan's, Richardson's, Collins', Sochan's and Wesley's deals all expiring or having options. Having Grant instead with $70 Million left on his contract is much more restricting.

I've never hated Grant, and still don't. But it's not a minor swap to add him in. It would require a completely different type of off-season, one where the Spurs feel they have a team they could more strongly commit to for four years rather than the transitional/developmental roster this scenario proposed. If you're one of those people wanting to trade for Cunningham and maxing him, for example, then maybe you use some of the salary difference to bring in Grant. I might try a mock off-season built around that. We've still got a few days to kill before a lot of hypotheticals get rendered moot.

[Ariel]

Draft:

At 4, the Spurs draft Sheppard
At 8, the Spurs draft Williams
Not my top choices but reasonable picks,

At 35, the Spurs draft Mitchell
At 48, the Spurs draft Ajinca (two-way or stash)
A+ here, would also consider Pacome Dadiet, Cam Christie or Justin Edwards at 35, and Antonio Reeves or KJ Simpson at 48.

Graham (guaranteed), Branham, Bassey (guaranteed), CHI25 and Chicago's second-round pick for DeMar DeRozan (sign-and-trade) at $81M/3 with the last year non-guaranteed.
Hate this, you're basically paying Chicago back what they originally sent for DDR. I'm not opposed to trading the pick, but would prefer to use it on younger players who raise the team's ceiling beyond next season, rather than its immediate floor.

The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to a $22M/3 deal (using part of the MLE) with a team option for the final season.
The Spurs sign Xavier Tillman to a $12M/2 deal (using remainder of the MLE) with a team option for the second year
Players sound like a sensible choice, but I wouldn't commit to salary beyond '25, that class looks juicy and, though the Spurs may come out empty handed, it's still worth trying. So I'd rather overpay for 1 year deals, or offer 2 year deals with 2nd year team option.

[mo7888]

I keep thinking back to my idea of a young talented PG and a vet wing who help handle the play-making duties. Seeing SR21's combination of elation and disgust encouraged me to make another mock off-season.

Trades:
None:

Draft:

At 4, the Spurs draft Sheppard
At 8, the Spurs draft Williams
At 35, the Spurs draft Mitchell
At 48, the Spurs draft Ajinca (two-way or stash)

Graham (guaranteed), Branham, Bassey (guaranteed), CHI25 and Chicago's second-round pick for DeMar DeRozan (sign-and-trade) at $81M/3 with the last year non-guaranteed.
The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to a $22M/3 deal (using part of the MLE) with a team option for the final season.
The Spurs sign Xavier Tillman to a $12M/2 deal (using remainder of the MLE) with a team option for the second year

Sheppard, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Mitchell
Williams, Johnson, Champangie
DeRozan, Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Tillman

Comments:

Whether you think DMDR or Williams is the PF or SF, I don't care. Unless Jeremy comes with a much improved ability to space the floor, I don't think he and DeRozan work well together, but I actually like the fit with DeRozan being there to provide vertical pressure and help Sheppard run the offense while Williams and Vassell hold down the wings. Wemby would have three PnR partners and plenty of spacing around him even if DeRozan means it's not perfect. I'd worry about the defense, especially by replacing Sochan with DMDR, but hopefully Sheppard and Williams offset that. By all accounts, DeRozan is a tremendous mentor and locker-room presence. He's never shown to be a contending player, but either he'll adjust to being a contributor on a team with a clear superstar who isn't him, or his stint will only last for two seasons. Richardson is another familiar face who should help stabilize a second unit which actually has a lot of talent and may just need the time and run to take advantage of it. Tillman is expensive insurance, but his contract allow the Spurs to keep their trade options open.

I wish there was a more obvious choice to start at PF than Williams. That's the weakest part of this roster. If the Spurs could get Middleton or build a time machine to bring in 32-year-old Nic Batum, it would be much easier to build a rotation that could both challenge for a playoff birth next season and continue to develop key prospects. Sochan is talented, but he's not good enough to where the team can put starting him as a core part of their roster build. I don't love Williams as the guy to replace Jeremy in the first unit, but I don't love any player projected to drafted around 8 to do that. The middle of the draft has Holmes, Smith, Klintman, Mogbo and Ingram. The Spurs have 35 but shouldn't be looking for a starter there. If we're being honestly, Pop would probably start Jones, Vassell, DeRozan, Sochan and Wemby for 30 games despite the bad spacing turning winnable games into losses before benching Vassell for Champangie for a few more games and finally moving first Jones and then Sochan to the bench around the ASB. But the actual season mechanics are for a different thread.

I'm actually pretty good with that. The only part I see differently is giving Chicago back their 1st for dmr since he's a FA. I'd probably want them to take Collins in that scenario and adjust to his numbers. The fit of dmr and Sheppard is pretty good though and gives Reed a chance to adjust to playing Pg at this level.

[scott]

Chinook has been putting in the work in this thread. Love it.

[Chinook]

Hate this, you're basically paying Chicago back what they originally sent for DDR. I'm not opposed to trading the pick, but would prefer to use it on younger players who raise the team's ceiling beyond next season, rather than its immediate floor.

The Spurs' ceiling is based on Wemby's development. He's the pole in the center of the tent. The goal of these next two years is to develop as many players into quality pieces as possible. Young guys who are still being paid for how good they're "supposed to become" are exactly what the team doesn't need to spend assets on yet. Too often people want the Spurs to pay premium prices for guys who can't get their teams out of the lottery, and they use the excuse of them being able to grow with Wemby to justify it. Victor doesn't need classmates. He needs teachers and other vets who know how to do their jobs. When he grows into himself more, then you can start bringing in disciples to follow him. It's much more efficient in terms of money and assets to do it that way as well.


Players sound like a sensible choice, but I wouldn't commit to salary beyond '25, that class looks juicy and, though the Spurs may come out empty handed, it's still worth trying. So I'd rather overpay for 1 year deals, or offer 2 year deals with 2nd year team option.

I don't see 2025 as all that appealing, especially once you factor in the extensions that will fall into place. I've talked before about how preserving cap space is very taxing on the talent level of a roster. The Spurs would have to choose to make that sacrifice to be able to have a max slot available just as they currently have to sacrifice a moderate amount to create any decent chunk of space this summer. That's not nearly as difficult in 2026, when Collins and the 2022 draftees expire and Keldon/Vassell are at the low points in their contracts. 2026 is a much stronger vet class, and more importantly the Spurs will have a much better idea about how far their core players can take them. They aren't likely to get a ton of clarity about that this season where guys are trying to settle into new roles.

[Chinook]

I'm actually pretty good with that. The only part I see differently is giving Chicago back their 1st for dmr since he's a FA. I'd probably want them to take Collins in that scenario and adjust to his numbers. The fit of dmr and Sheppard is pretty good though and gives Reed a chance to adjust to playing Pg at this level.

If the Spurs were able to convince the Bulls to take Collins and Branham instead of Graham, Branham AND Bassey, it would actually open up cap space and the room exception rather than the MLE (and LLE, but I didn't use it in this scenario). It would also let them offer $86.5M/3, with that extra bit in the first two years increasing the likelihood they could get away with the final year being mostly non-guaranteed. Then sign someone like Mo Wanger to something like $49M/3 with the second year being a partial guarantee to push the total guaranteed to up $20 Million and the rest and the final year being non-guaranteed. Then give the rest of the cap space to Richardson on a $21M/3 deal with the last year non-guaranteed. That would leave:

Sheppard, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Mitchell
Williams, Johnson, Champangie
DeRozan, Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Wagner, Bassey

And they'd still have the room exception for a further trade or signing later on.

[scott]

Another moonshot pre-draft scenario:

#4: Spurs draft Castle

Spurs trade #8 + #35 + a future SRP for #5 and draft Matas Buzelis

Spurs trade four SRPs to PHX for #21 and draft Tyler Smith

Spurs take Bronny James at #48 and sell his rights to LAL for the maximum amount allowed by the league

Spurs trade SA25 + ATL27 + SA29 + swap rights to the best of ATL/SA26 + Keldon Johnson + Tre Jones + whatever filler necessary for Cade Cunningham and Quintin Grimes

Spurs bring back KBD on some kind of minor deal

2025 Lineup:

Cade/Castle/Wesley
Vassell/Grimes/Branham
Buzelis/Champagnie/KBD
Sochan/Smith/Mamu
Wemby/Collins/Bassey

[LeBowen]

Who exactly defends in that lineup?
We'd get murdered.

And it's not like Williams in his rookie year or Demar would spread the floor.

[mo7888]

If the Spurs were able to convince the Bulls to take Collins and Branham instead of Graham, Branham AND Bassey, it would actually open up cap space and the room exception rather than the MLE (and LLE, but I didn't use it in this scenario). It would also let them offer $86.5M/3, with that extra bit in the first two years increasing the likelihood they could get away with the final year being mostly non-guaranteed. Then sign someone like Mo Wanger to something like $49M/3 with the second year being a partial guarantee to push the total guaranteed to up $20 Million and the rest and the final year being non-guaranteed. Then give the rest of the cap space to Richardson on a $21M/3 deal with the last year non-guaranteed. That would leave:

Sheppard, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Mitchell
Williams, Johnson, Champangie
DeRozan, Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Wagner, Bassey

And they'd still have the room exception for a further trade or signing later on.

I like that, and I like Wagner in that 2nd unit...

[Chinook]

Who exactly defends in that lineup?
We'd get murdered.

And it's not like Williams in his rookie year or Demar would spread the floor.

Williams isn't a bad defender. He lacks strength, but that's basically the one thing on defense DeRozan doesn't lack, and among the few NBA-level skills that seem like they'll be there in year one for Williams is his shooting. But no doubt he's not a ready-made fit.

[LeBowen]

Williams isn't a bad defender. He lacks strength, but that's basically the one thing on defense DeRozan doesn't lack, and among the few NBA-level skills that seem like they'll be there in year one for Williams is his shooting. But no doubt he's not a ready-made fit.

I'm obviously heavily against the idea of bringing Demar back, but if we were to, we'd need the other forward to be 3-D ready contributor right away.

While we're at 3-D obviously really hard to acquire such players these days.
Everyone keeps talking about Bridges, but I'd be interested in Cam Johnson if he can be had for cheap and Spurs don't draft Risacher. Even DFS would be interesting.

And I'd definitely go for MPJ if he becomes available due to Denver's cap hell situation.

[CGD]

Another moonshot pre-draft scenario:

#4: Spurs draft Castle

Spurs trade #8 + #35 + a future SRP for #5 and draft Matas Buzelis

Spurs trade four SRPs to PHX for #21 and draft Tyler Smith

Spurs take Bronny James at #48 and sell his rights to LAL for the maximum amount allowed by the league

Spurs trade SA25 + ATL27 + SA29 + swap rights to the best of ATL/SA26 + Keldon Johnson + Tre Jones + whatever filler necessary for Cade Cunningham and Quintin Grimes

Spurs bring back KBD on some kind of minor deal

2025 Lineup:

Cade/Castle/Wesley
Vassell/Grimes/Branham
Buzelis/Champagnie/KBD
Sochan/Smith/Mamu
Wemby/Collins/Bassey

I would love Cade here man, truly, but they’re about to extend him to a max and make him the face of that team as it hits the reset button.

I do think there will be a number of teams (PELs said as much) that would sell a late FRP for several future SRPs. Honestly I haven’t been focused on that part of the first round this year, but who stands out? Would have to be someone who unexpectedly falls right (eg, a McCain, Furphy, Bub)?

[Chinook]

Another moonshot pre-draft scenario:

#4: Spurs draft Castle

Spurs trade #8 + #35 + a future SRP for #5 and draft Matas Buzelis

Spurs trade four SRPs to PHX for #21 and draft Tyler Smith

Spurs take Bronny James at #48 and sell his rights to LAL for the maximum amount allowed by the league

Spurs trade SA25 + ATL27 + SA29 + swap rights to the best of ATL/SA26 + Keldon Johnson + Tre Jones + whatever filler necessary for Cade Cunningham and Quintin Grimes

Spurs bring back KBD on some kind of minor deal

2025 Lineup:

Cade/Castle/Wesley
Vassell/Grimes/Branham
Buzelis/Champagnie/KBD
Sochan/Smith/Mamu
Wemby/Collins/Bassey

The Spurs would have a first-level max slot available during that series of moves if they time the transactions correctly and could get a second- or third-level slot if they could include Collins in whatever acquisition. Like they could do Sochan, Collins, CHA25 and CHI25 for George and Zubac

Cunningham, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Grimes, Branham
George, Champangie, Bates-Diop
Smith, Buzelis, Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama, Zubac, Bassey

Or as its friends call it: Go big or go home.

[exstatic]

I'm obviously heavily against the idea of bringing Demar back, but if we were to, we'd need the other forward to be 3-D ready contributor right away.

While we're at 3-D obviously really hard to acquire such players these days.
Everyone keeps talking about Bridges, but I'd be interested in Cam Johnson if he can be had for cheap and Spurs don't draft Risacher. Even DFS would be interesting.

And I'd definitely go for MPJ if he becomes available due to Denver's cap hell situation.

I hate MPJ, and I think his teammates feel the same way. He’s the definition,of a black hole, and not particularly clutch. Go back and watch that clip where Wemby scores 17 in 3 minutes, and see how many open threes he clanked. He was also the player who got beat by Champagnie for the dunk, because he lost focus on D, and his man. His contract is also an albatross, and won’t be improved much by the new media deal. Also, the two back surgeries before age 23. He missed his entire run okie season, and played 9 games in his forth season.

[Chinook]

I'm obviously heavily against the idea of bringing Demar back, but if we were to, we'd need the other forward to be 3-D ready contributor right away.

Why? This isn't a roster that's trying to contend. It's a roster trying to develop their core prospects while being more respectable on the court. Having a weakness that a good team could exploit in a seven-game series doesn't really matter. What matters is in 2026 when the team is actually trying to figure out if it can contend, will Sheppard, Vassell, Williams and Wemby be stronger for having spent the previous two years with those vets? I think they would. Then you add the three-and-D forward and either let DMDR stay on as the sixth man or move on. That's assuming Sochan never figures out how to shoot and moves on in 2026 as well, but him having two years to focus on that rather than on playing PG, being the designated stopper of the first unit or any of the other high-minded ambitions he's been asked to meet should be good for him.

[TD 21]

Too often people want the Spurs to pay premium prices for guys who can't get their teams out of the lottery.

There's maybe five players at most (Jokic, Embiid, Antetokounmpo, Doncic, Gilgeous-Alexander), who if they play 70+ games, could take just about any roster and likely get them to the playoffs.

That's an unfair standard to apply on the rest of the league and leaves out the myriad factors of each unique situation that goes into the equation to create the context.

[LeBowen]

I hate MPJ, and I think his teammates feel the same way. He’s the definition,of a black hole, and not particularly clutch. Go back and watch that clip where Wemby scores 17 in 3 minutes, and see how many open threes he clanked. He was also the player who got beat by Champagnie for the dunk, because he lost focus on D, and his man. His contract is also an albatross, and won’t be improved much by the new media deal. Also, the tw back surgeries before age 23. He missed his entire run okie season, and played 9 games in his forth season.

I hated him all the way up to last year's playoffs. I always kept talking how he doesn't know how to play basketball.
But then he made noticable improvements to his defense. Regressed back late on this year, but considering all the family shit he had to deal with, I respect him for even playing.
And he still torched the Lakers.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't give Nuggets anything more than Keldon, Tre and one FRP.
While his contract is an overpay, it expires before Wemby's rookie extension kicks in.

He's a 6'10 wing, shoots 40% on 7 attempts from 3pt and is a very good rebounder. All the things we need.
I'd take him as an reclamation project. No contender is obviously taking him.

[LeBowen]

Why? This isn't a roster that's trying to contend. It's a roster trying to develop their core prospects while being more respectable on the court. Having a weakness that a good team could exploit in a seven-game series doesn't really matter. What matters is in 2026 when the team is actually trying to figure out if it can contend, will Sheppard, Vassell, Williams and Wemby be stronger for having spent the previous two years with those vets? I think they would. Then you add the three-and-D forward and either let DMDR stay on as the sixth man or move on. That's assuming Sochan never figures out how to shoot and moves on in 2026 as well, but him having two years to focus on that rather than on playing PG, being the designated stopper of the first unit or any of the other high-minded ambitions he's been asked to meet should be good for him.

I'm a believer that it's much harder to develop players on bad teams. Especially teams that are a bad fit.
I'd like to see if Devin can develop his playmaking skills and Sheppard would also need to be tested in that department.
Williams also has some point forward potential.
Wemby likes handling the ball.
What's Demar's purpose, then?

Veterans I'd like to add are high character guys that don't really need the ball. Like Barnes I mentioned yesterday.
Or Batum if Wemby can convince him to play another year.
Maybe a veteran point guard if we don't draft a point guard in this draft.
I dont' want any veteran 20ppg scorers.

[Chinook]

I'm a believer that it's much harder to develop players on bad teams. Especially teams that are a bad fit.

You say this and go on to describe a bad team. A team that relies on guys who don't know how to play in the NBA to have the ball in their hands is a bad team. It's a far bigger factor as to why the Spurs have been horrible for years than the talent level of the players in the league. I know the meme answer as to why the offense stuttered so much was that no one on the Spurs knew how to throw a lob. That was never true. The problem with the team's offense is that it started off the year relying on Sochan to be the point guard and had Johnson playing the primary play-making role. The reason why Jones starting shored up so many issues isn't that Jones is uber-talented; it's that he actually knows how to do his half of play-making. If you eschew that for Williams and Reed learning on the job, and you get the first part of last season all over again.

Guys need to start learning how to play roles. Basically every prospect in the last two decades had to go through some bullshit where they had the ball forced in his hands so he could do things that were not his strength to the detriment of fundamental skills like shooting and defense. That has to stop. If Williams ends up being a play-maker, it's find to explore that in a few years after he's already put in the team to make sure his shot translates and that he's big/strong enough to defend NBA forwards. He should be just shooting right now. Sheppard needs to learn how to be an NBA point-guard, but he also needs to learn how the NBA moves and where his place is going to be in it. That's why having an experienced ball-handler next to him is a plus. He also gets to save energy for defense. Wemby will get the ball plenty, but no NBA player should be so ball-needy that he can't play with another play-maker. Victor is just as much of a unicorn off the ball as he is on it, and if he learns to play with DeRozan, he'll have a much easier time fitting in with his actual Robin in a couple of years.


Veterans I'd like to add are high character guys that don't really need the ball. Like Barnes I mentioned yesterday.

See to me, this is exactly wrong. They don't need guys who can't provide any resistance to their improvement. It's not that Barnes is bad, but he doesn't replace DeRozan -- he just takes Williams' spot in the starting lineup without helping the flow. The benefits of DeRozan just go unexploited while Williams or Sochan again has to carry a load they wouldn't be asked to carry on a competent roster.

So yes, I 100-percent agree that it's much harder to develop players on bad teams and with bad fits. But bad teams aren't bad because they don't have talent -- a true lack of talent is very rare in today's league. They're bad because they focus too much on acquiring young players and not enough on building a structure to promote their growth and weed out the duds. If you look around at the bad teams, you'll find clumps of high picks who play similar positions but haven't seemed to improve at all. This is how they become those teams. IF the Spurs want to avoid that, they need to draw a line in the sand and tell their young guys, "Cross this line or go home. We're not going to coddle you anymore or give you undeserved minutes. We're trying to win games now. Earn your spot or be replaced. We have too many picks to worry about it."

[LeBowen]

You say this and go on to describe a bad team. A team that relies on guys who don't know how to play in the NBA to have the ball in their hands is a bad team. It's a far bigger factor as to why the Spurs have been horrible for years than the talent level of the players in the league. I know the meme answer as to why the offense stuttered so much was that no one on the Spurs knew how to throw a lob. That was never true. The problem with the team's offense is that it started off the year relying on Sochan to be the point guard and had Johnson playing the primary play-making role. The reason why Jones starting shored up so many issues isn't that Jones is uber-talented; it's that he actually knows how to do his half of play-making. If you eschew that for Williams and Reed learning on the job, and you get the first part of last season all over again.

Imo, it's different when someone like Sheppard is trying to develop his point guard skills compared to Pop randomly experimenting with Jeremy.
And if we draft Sheppard, I'd be willing to bet he doesn't start right away.

Other than playmaking, our two biggest issues were perimeter defense and 3pt shooting.
I just wouldn't be able to whitstand another season of traffic cone Demar. And he's even older now.


See to me, this is exactly wrong. They don't need guys who can't provide any resistance to their improvement. It's not that Barnes is bad, but he doesn't replace DeRozan -- he just takes Williams' spot in the starting lineup without helping the flow. The benefits of DeRozan just go unexploited while Williams or Sochan again has to carry a load they wouldn't be asked to carry on a competent roster.

Again, defense and shooting.


So yes, I 100-percent agree that it's much harder to develop players on bad teams and with bad fits. But bad teams aren't bad because they don't have talent

Agreed, often times it's coaching and rosters that don't fit together.


a true lack of talent is very rare in today's league

And yet we lack talent.
Take the best player out out every roster and Spurs were arguably the worst team in the league. Top3 worst, best case scenario.


They're bad because they focus too much on acquiring young players and not enough on building a structure to promote their growth and weed out the duds.

But our roster was mostly duds.


If you look around at the bad teams, you'll find clumps of high picks who play similar positions but haven't seemed to improve at all. This is how they become those teams.

That's why I'm advocating against another year in the lottery. We'll just descend into the territory of losing being acceptable.


IF the Spurs want to avoid that, they need to draw a line in the sand and tell their young guys, "Cross this line or go home. We're not going to coddle you anymore or give you undeserved minutes. We're trying to win games now. Earn your spot or be replaced. We have too many picks to worry about it."

Agreed.
I just don't think Demar is the guy to get.

I wouldn't be against CP3 I detest.
I wouldn't be against Klay I also dislike.
I wouldn't be against PG13, obviously.
I wouldn't be against any cheap veterans I mentioned.
But I just don't want a no-3 no-D, 35 year old, despite him being a high character guy and a good locker room presence.

[objective]

Simple steps to make an ideal off season

4 - Sheppard
8 - Holland

2nd round mix and match: Mogbo, Chomche, AJay Mitchell, Juan Nunez, Klintman, Scheierman, Dunn, Dadiet

Caproom - Patrick Williams rfa sheet or sign and trade or just roll it over. Maybe steal Melton who would probably cost the same.

Most importantly, if Sheppard is gone at 4, I would go

4- Holland
8- Dillingham

Maaaaaybe Carter instead of Dillingham

The constants though are Sheppard and Holland

Holland has so much potential I think that people are missing as they get hung up on the shooting and the state of the Ignite. In the NBA now you do need big strong wings on defense. Jaylen Brown was a better cover for Luka because of his strength and motor, something McDaniels couldn't match despite being taller and longer. He just didn't have the strength to not get bumped off by Luka. Vassell would have the same problem. Keldon isn't guarding anyone, even Sochan might be better used against Kyrie to stay with him and smother him.

Holland has the size, the strength, the length, the bulk, the bulk (currently listed over 10 pounds heavier than Jaden McDaniels for instance) and that incredible motor that Brown showed in the finals

Add in everything else and if the shooting comes around he's an ideal SF.. able to drive, to cut, to playmake some, crush in transition, create defensive events, I can see it coming together.

Add Sheppard to that with his incredible transition passing, the event creation on defense (and I do believe his POA defense will improve), the remarkable shooting ... It's a dream come true. Teams are already so discombobulated and confused trying to account for Wemby that it's the perfect setup for a disruptor like Sheppard to get in there and take advantage with steals as teams are trying to move the ball to get Wemby moved out of the play.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs would need to send out $22,293,104 to match Grant. That's a much harder ask than then $18, 367, 920 they're sending out in the DeRozan deal. That would mean adding two more cheap players or swapping in a rotation player. It's a much bigger talent drain for what I would consider to be a worse player and worse contract. Grant is signed for four more years rather than DeRozan's two, which is a negative in this case. The previous scenario basically gave the Spurs a reset button in 2026 with DeRozan's, Richardson's, Collins', Sochan's and Wesley's deals all expiring or having options. Having Grant instead with $70 Million left on his contract is much more restricting.

I've never hated Grant, and still don't. But it's not a minor swap to add him in. It would require a completely different type of off-season, one where the Spurs feel they have a team they could more strongly commit to for four years rather than the transitional/developmental roster this scenario proposed. If you're one of those people wanting to trade for Cunningham and maxing him, for example, then maybe you use some of the salary difference to bring in Grant. I might try a mock off-season built around that. We've still got a few days to kill before a lot of hypotheticals get rendered moot.

Perhaps, but to me Grant fits much much better and doesnt cause the issues that DeRozan does. Im willing to pay for that because for the first two years I’d rather have Grant and then I think when theres 2 years left on Grants deal he’s trade able as you said.

And ya, my idea would probably be using Keldon in this deal to shift some of that money to Grant vs paying it to Keldon + DeRozan

But it was just an idea.

What do you think about my aggressive rookie framework where SA adds 4 from this draft.

[Chinook]

Imo, it's different when someone like Sheppard is trying to develop his point guard skills compared to Pop randomly experimenting with Jeremy.
And if we draft Sheppard, I'd be willing to bet he doesn't start right away.

My comments were directed at the suggestion that the Spurs should be trying to have Williams handle the ball because he has some "potential" there. The Spurs have been using that logic to hinder players' development for years now. Sheppard would need to learn to play PG, and DeRozan or a similar ball-handling scorer would act as training wheels while he does that. Vassell being able to run the PnR would help too. But if the starting lineup is relying on a player who struggles to pass the ball without completely stopping his movement, then it will look horrible again. Pop would be justified in going with Jones instead, which means the spacing situation becomes more complicated once again.


Other than playmaking, our two biggest issues were perimeter defense and 3pt shooting.

This is why the Spurs are drafting and starting two of the best shooters for their positions in this scenario, both of whom help with the defense. Considering how most of the other defensive prospects are mediocre to horrible shooters, this is probably the best splitting of the difference they can get through that avenue.


And yet we lack talent.
Take the best player out out every roster and Spurs were arguably the worst team in the league. Top3 worst, best case scenario.

But they don't actually. That's meme talk. Their issue isn't talent -- it's realized talent. That comes from basically every player being put on the "positionless/playmaking/"Beautiful Game" track rather than being taught to play their positions and build NBA skills. It's not just Sochan who was put in a position where he learned luxury skills over fundamentals. Vassell is a proto-star in that he had developed the ability to hit some difficult shots that would serve him well as a closer, and his play-making is really intriguing as a top option on a good team. However, his shot is inconsistent, and his defense has regressed? Why? Why is it that basically every prospect gets worse or stays the same at shooting? Why to guys who've been in the league for years not know how to play defense? It's not because they all lack that capacity. It's because for some reason the Spurs can't teach those skills.

I fully believe by the end of this week there will be four or five players who could be key contributors to future Spurs contender. I believe just as strongly that the second-best player for that contender will not be on the roster. So no, I don't want the Spurs to continue down the track of training their prospects for roles they shouldn't play. Bringing in a guy like DeRozan to come in and meet the need for a second star for a couple of years without breaking the bank is the best way to stop that cycle.


Agreed.
I just don't think Demar is the guy to get.

I am not trying to make you like any specific player, obviously. You can like who you like. But CP3 and Thompson are very different players than DeRozan, and they fit with a different roster than the one this scenario covers. Those other rosters could be viable or even better, but the number of proven play-making wings is pretty small, and they tend to not be affordable. Getting one who's older is a bonus because you aren't trying to make them a part of your future. You can just sign them to be who they are and then move on.

[Chinook]

Perhaps, but to me Grant fits much much better and doesnt cause the issues that DeRozan does. Im willing to pay for that because for the first two years I’d rather have Grant and then I think when theres 2 years left on Grants deal he’s trade able as you said.

And ya, my idea would probably be using Keldon in this deal to shift some of that money to Grant vs paying it to Keldon + DeRozan

But it was just an idea.

I would disagree that Grant fits better, and I wouldn't assume he's going to be tradeable making a ton of money in his 30s. I in particular wouldn't say he's tradeable for the cap space the Spurs are giving up. Adding Keldon and creating another hole to lock up that money for four more years also doesn't feel create. I certainly wouldn't trade the fifth-overall pick for Jerami Grant, and if that's Johnson's worth, he shouldn't be getting used as a throw-in here. That said, who knows what will come down the pipeline for the Spurs, and Grant has a role he can play for the right team. The Spurs being that team would require some more moving parts, in my opinion.


What do you think about my aggressive rookie framework where SA adds 4 from this draft.

I wouldn't be a huge fan of trading so much, especially for three guards and an SF. Three players in the top 10 are sneakily expensive, and I'm not panicking if the Spurs can only get one of Risacher, Castle or Sheppard. It's okay to lose guys. Carter, Dillingham, Holland, Buzelis -- there are plenty of guys. I have expressed interest in the team acquiring a later first, because I think there's decent value in the 20s that may not be there in the 30s. But that's just a way to move up a few slots and snag Smith, Holmes, da Silva or Klintman.

I do not like the idea of trading Keldon like this at all, even though I think getting a top-five pick for him would be a win on value. I've said before that I want the team to stop losing at this point, so trading one of the few rotation-caliber players and marginalizing a second just to load up on rookies in an ambiguous class doesn't feel like a great direction from me.

[jesterbobman]

Going in a relatively slow build fashion...

Draft Sheppard at 4,
Trade 8 and the Charlotte protected pick for 6, draft Castle. (I think this is an overpay in terms of assets to move up 2 spots, but Castle and Sheppard are two of my top 3, and I don't think there's any reasonable chance of that conveying).
Trade 35, 48 and a future second (pick a year where Phoenix has 0 picks) to Phoenix (pick #22, to occur after the draft pick is made for Stepien reasons), draft Tyler Smith.

FA: Trade Malaki Branham, and a second round pick to Cleveland for Isaac Okoro (S&T at about 14/15m pa).

Waive DeVonte Graham for 2.85m.

Sheppard / Tre / Blake
Vassell / Castle
Okoro / Keldon / Champagnie
Sochan / Smith
Wemby / Collins / Bassey

Still probably need a front court upgrade. One idea would be turning the DeVonte waive into another S&T (Bulls for Patrick Williams? using the Bulls pick?, though if you did that you'd probably opt for Kel'el Ware over Tyler Smith as Smith and Williams are a bit redundant).

I think the clear downside of that is that you're not getting experienced (7 - 10 + years) players as leaders, but the roster construction works decently (3 backcourt shooters, Good on ball defense options, continuing with the offense as multi ball handlers with shooting) and you're not using up a ton of assets in improving around Wemby.

[mo7888]

Going in a relatively slow build fashion...

Draft Sheppard at 4,
Trade 8 and the Charlotte protected pick for 6, draft Castle. (I think this is an overpay in terms of assets to move up 2 spots, but Castle and Sheppard are two of my top 3, and I don't think there's any reasonable chance of that conveying).
Trade 35, 48 and a future second (pick a year where Phoenix has 0 picks) to Phoenix (pick #22, to occur after the draft pick is made for Stepien reasons), draft Tyler Smith.

FA: Trade Malaki Branham, and a second round pick to Cleveland for Isaac Okoro (S&T at about 14/15m pa).

Waive DeVonte Graham for 2.85m.

Sheppard / Tre / Blake
Vassell / Castle
Okoro / Keldon / Champagnie
Sochan / Smith
Wemby / Collins / Bassey

Still probably need a front court upgrade. One idea would be turning the DeVonte waive into another S&T (Bulls for Patrick Williams? using the Bulls pick?, though if you did that you'd probably opt for Kel'el Ware over Tyler Smith as Smith and Williams are a bit redundant).

I think the clear downside of that is that you're not getting experienced (7 - 10 + years) players as leaders, but the roster construction works decently (3 backcourt shooters, Good on ball defense options, continuing with the offense as multi ball handlers with shooting) and you're not using up a ton of assets in improving around Wemby.

Do we really think Okoro can be had for those assets and that Price?

[DPG21920]

I would disagree that Grant fits better, and I wouldn't assume he's going to be tradeable making a ton of money in his 30s. I in particular wouldn't say he's tradeable for the cap space the Spurs are giving up. Adding Keldon and creating another hole to lock up that money for four more years also doesn't feel create. I certainly wouldn't trade the fifth-overall pick for Jerami Grant, and if that's Johnson's worth, he shouldn't be getting used as a throw-in here. That said, who knows what will come down the pipeline for the Spurs, and Grant has a role he can play for the right team. The Spurs being that team would require some more moving parts, in my opinion.



I wouldn't be a huge fan of trading so much, especially for three guards and an SF. Three players in the top 10 are sneakily expensive, and I'm not panicking if the Spurs can only get one of Risacher, Castle or Sheppard. It's okay to lose guys. Carter, Dillingham, Holland, Buzelis -- there are plenty of guys. I have expressed interest in the team acquiring a later first, because I think there's decent value in the 20s that may not be there in the 30s. But that's just a way to move up a few slots and snag Smith, Holmes, da Silva or Klintman.

I do not like the idea of trading Keldon like this at all, even though I think getting a top-five pick for him would be a win on value. I've said before that I want the team to stop losing at this point, so trading one of the few rotation-caliber players and marginalizing a second just to load up on rookies in an ambiguous class doesn't feel like a great direction from me.

I would say don’t get so fixated on the exact players but more that overall construct. Maybe its 2 wings and 2 guards or 2 guards a wing and a Center etc…its more about value and bringing 4 rookies in etc…

I don’t honestly “want” to trade Keldon, but being able to have him fully absorbed offsets that expensive salary of 2 more firsts and spurs aren’t giving up core picks here (keeping all their own and all of ATL etc..).

But biggest thing on Keldon is if he’s not a fit as a starter and you can get someone that has the same scoring upside, but can defend/hit 3s it changes the flexibility of the whole 6th man thing where they can also start and truly fit well and not tank the defense etc…

But of course I highly doubt SA would bring in 4 rookies, but I would be happy with 3 (Risacher, Carter and Castle for example) leaving room for going after OG with the extra cap space by DET absorbing Keldon full deal alongside giving SA legit value for Keldon (pick 5)

[jesterbobman]

Do we really think Okoro can be had for those assets and that Price?

I think it's semi realistic - price is the right range for a 5th starter / bench piece (though it might be a few million low). He'd only be available if Cleveland wasn't looking to keep him, the sign and trade isn't meant to be exact value in a player for player swap, more of them getting something (I don't think super high of Branham, but something, has shown scoring flashes, and the Ohio / Cleveland connection might help). Agree it's not a balanced trade in terms of assets, but as a sign and trade, I don't think it needs to be (or generally is).

[Chinook]

So a couple of final mock off-seasons before the draft renders most of the speculation moot. There's one more I'll try to squeeze out tomorrow, but I wanted to get this one in today.


Trades:


Spurs trade Keldon Johnson, Zach Collins, Devonte Graham, 4, 8, ATL25, CHI25 and ATL27 for Cade Cunningham, 14 and Jerami Grant
Blazers trade Grant and 14 for Collins and 8
Pistons Trade Cunningham for Johnson, Graham 4, ATL25, CHI25 and ATL27


Spurs trade 48, CHA25 and a fake second for Harrison Barnes 21
Pelicans trade 21 for 43, 48. and CHA25
Kings trade Barnes and 43 for a fake second

Draft:


At 14, the Spurs select Jared McCain
At 21, the Spurs select Yves Missi
At 35, the Spurs select Nikola Djurusic (whom they convince to stay in Europe for another year)


Free agency:


The Spurs sign Cedi Osman to a $16M/2 deal with the final year being non-guaranteed


Roster:


PG Cunningham, Jones, Wesley
SG Vassell, McCain, Branham
SF Grant, Osman, Champangie
PF Sochan, Barnes, Cissoko
C Wembanyama, Missi, Bassey


This is definitely more expensive than I would want the team to be. However, the Spurs do end up with a decent rotation including some young guys with potential in the second unit. I don't love how many assets were spent on a first unit that doesn't look to have enough to win despite being quite expensive. However, it's possible better players/ contracts might be out of the Spurs' price range. The major trade doesn't use cap space from any team, so it can be done immediately, which is always good for getting the rookies in the building leading up to the summer league. Missi and McCain are players with limited niches but decent upside within those niches. Djurisic got some hype playing next to Topic, and he could factor into the 2025 rotation if McCain takes over PG duties from Jones. It sucks to come into the draft with two top-10 picks and tons of future selections and leave with two mid-firsts and no extra future firsts, But I guess that's the price of progress.

[DPG21920]

Hell ya I do that one. EASILY. I would love Cade.

[scott]

So a couple of final mock off-seasons before the draft renders most of the speculation moot. There's one more I'll try to squeeze out tomorrow, but I wanted to get this one in today.


Trades:


Spurs trade Keldon Johnson, Zach Collins, Devonte Graham, 4, 8, ATL25, CHI25 and ATL27 for Cade Cunningham, 14 and Jerami Grant
Blazers trade Grant and 14 for Collins and 8
Pistons Trade Cunningham for Johnson, Graham 4, ATL25, CHI25 and ATL27


Spurs trade 35, CHA25 and a fake second for Harrison Barnes 21
Pelicans trade 21 for 43, 48. and CHA25
Kings trade Barnes and 43 for a fake second

Draft:


At 14, the Spurs select Jared McCain
At 21, the Spurs select Yves Missi
At 35, the Spurs select Nikola Djurusic (whom they convince to stay in Europe for another year)


Free agency:


The Spurs sign Cedi Osman to a $16M/2 deal with the final year being non-guaranteed


Roster:


PG Cunningham, Jones, Wesley
SG Vassell, McCain, Branham
SF Grant, Osman, Champangie
PF Sochan, Barnes, Cissoko
C Wembanyama, Missi, Bassey


This is definitely more expensive than I would want the team to be. However, the Spurs do end up with a decent rotation including some young guys with potential in the second unit. I don't love how many assets were spent on a first unit that doesn't look to have enough to win despite being quite expensive. However, it's possible better players/ contracts might be out of the Spurs' price range. The major trade doesn't use cap space from any team, so it can be done immediately, which is always good for getting the rookies in the building leading up to the summer league. Missi and McCain are players with limited niches but decent upside within those niches. Djurisic got some hype playing next to Topic, and he could factor into the 2025 rotation if McCain takes over PG duties from Jones. It sucks to come into the draft with two top-10 picks and tons of future selections and leave with two mid-firsts and no extra future firsts, But I guess that's the price of progress.

This doesn't impact the roster in the following year, but you have the Spurs trading away 35 but then using it on Djurusic..

Not in love with Grant's contract, but I like him as a player. If Cade's 3p shooting continues to develop as it has, I think you've done a really good job of covering up Sochan's deficiency in this area. This is a fun build.

[Chinook]

This doesn't impact the roster in the following year, but you have the Spurs trading away 35 but then using it on Djurusic..

Not in love with Grant's contract, but I like him as a player. If Cade's 3p shooting continues to develop as it has, I think you've done a really good job of covering up Sochan's deficiency in this area. This is a fun build.

Instead of 35, I had NOP getting 43 from the Kings and 48 as part of a three-team trade where the Spurs get Barnes from SAC.

[Chinook]

All right, so last hurrah


Trades:


Spurs trade Keldon Johnson, Zach Collins, Tre Jones and CHI25 to LAC for Paul George (extend-and-trade for a total of $153.7M/3)
Spurs trade 35, 48 and two additional second-rounders from future years to NOP for 21


(... feels like something is missing)


Draft:


At 4, the Spurs select Stephon Castle
At 8, the Spurs select Cody Williams
At 21, the Spurs select Zach Edey


Free agency:


The Spurs waive Graham (hmm...)
The Spurs sign Chris Paul to a $40M/2 deal (via cap space)
The Spurs re-sign Sandro MamuKelashvili to a $8M/2 deal (via the room exception and containing team option in second year)
The Spurs re-sign sign Graham to an $8M/2 deal (via the remainder of the room exception with player option in second year)


Roster:


PG Paul, Castle, Wesley
SG Vassell, Graham, Branham
SF George, Williams, Champangie
PF Sochan, Mamukelashvili, Cissoko
C Wembanyama, Edey, Bassey


Comments:


Mock after mock, I tossed in a Graham trade to get rid of his guaranteed salary. It's just good business to do so. However, multiple times recently I've been looking at guard candidates to use all or part of the room exception on. In reality, Graham's one of the best such players. As a combo-guard with a good outside shot and a strong pick-and-roll game, he seems to pair well with Castle as a steady hand who can do PG things while also playing well off the ball. With Paul's age, having two capable backups coming off the bench together makes sense. If Castle is going to make it as a point-guard, having Paul there early in his career is about the best the team can do in terms of guidance.


After the Bridges trade, it's not clear what a George deal would look like. The Spurs are giving up two legit rotation players and Collins who seems to fit well in a Kawhi/Harden offense. With George's ability to opt out, I don't know how much more the Clippers could ask, but the answer is probably that some team would be willing to give more. George has indicated that he'd like to play in a good system and a flowing offense more than a contender, and the Spurs' philosophy combined with Paul, Castle and Graham seems to be a good fit. In a lot of ways, George is the place Williams would be trying to reach, so being able to back him up. Add the growth Vassell can see from playing next to the paragon of his archetype, and the team might have a fascinating wing combo for the next four seasons.


Fuck it, the Spurs are drafting Edey in this last mock. Go gigantic or go home. Maybe 21 is too low, but there's a legit chance that it's not. A lot of people might complain about Edey's defense, especially combined with Mamu's horrible showing there. But Castle and Williams should help, and so long as every plays drop coverage correctly, the overall effect should be better than the lowlights, as is the case with Lopez and Pau Gasol. The offense is fascinating, and Edey gives the bench a focal point, both in terms of post-ups but also in terms of PnR, at which Zach is actually very good. He's a good training big for Castle and should work very well off Graham. If that three-pointer comes along, the bench should be very interesting.


Final Thoughts:


When you compare this last mock to the first one I made in this thread, you can see a lot of similarities. The players are very different, but the guiding philosophy is the same. I believe the Spurs can and must take a real step forward while also taking full advantage of the young talent they have and stand to bring in in the near future. Just as Middleton was slated to age out for Holland and help Dillingham grow, so too would George and Paul age out for Castle and Williams. This is an "ideal" mock, so in practice, this roster would likely require some unprotected picks being added and very persuasive recruiting to make happen. While I do think the team would have a better chance at really making noise in the next two years, I'm not sure the long-term prognosis beats out that of the first mock roster. However, besides Edey being there, this seems doable. That's not to say it's at all likely that PATFO would even imagine doing this, but it seems more of a matter of will than capacity. It just goes to show how many options are always there and why speculating before and bitching in hindsight remain so popular.


Thanks to scott for the thread. It provided me a lot of entertainment over the past 10 weeks or so when I would've otherwise been tapping my foot counting down until today. I apologize for hijacking it so much.

[Seventyniner]

I don't consider that hijacking at all. It is totally in the spirit of the thread, even if you're throwing out more than one scenario. It's the thoughts that count.

[spurraider21]

my ideal offseason would have been salaun withdrawing from the draft tbh

[scott]

Indeed - you weren't hijacking at all Chinook. Appreciate all the food for thought! That's what this thread was for.

[Chinook]

my ideal offseason would have been salaun withdrawing from the draft tbh

So the Spurs/Hawks could win the 2025 lottery and select him first-overall?

[LeBowen]

Some things are clearer after the draft.
Time to make my best impression of a Chinook-style post.

My take is Spurs are 100% in on point Castle and we're not in for a smaller point guard.
Ideal development would be Bucks 2.0 with obvious similarities between Castle-Jrue, Devin-Middleton and Wemby-Giannis.
It's all about positional size and positive defense, but our spacing is dreadful as of now.
I'm not giving up on Jeremy, not even close, but him and Castle can't both be starters this season.

West will be brutal, chances of making the playoffs are low unless Wemby has an MVP-level season, which wouldn't surprise me.
But we can't tank with Wemby, he's just too good. There are way too many teams that bottomed out and will surely be worse than us just because of Wemby.
Wizards, Pistons, Nets, Hornets, Raptors, Blazers all look like they're ready to #capturetheFlagg, with Bulls and Jazz having also being in the running. And maybe some other teams.
No chance to get a top5 worst record. What's the point of tanking, then?

My pipe dream is Markkanen, but unless he refuses to extend, it's not happening. Jazz has 15 FRPs in the next 6 drafts and they don't need any more. They'll want a young player with all-star upside from a contender.

With Castle, Spurs have solved POA defense issues and due to his size we're ready to build a defensive juggernaut.
But even defensive juggernauts need spacing.
I don't think there's a chance or a good fit available this summer if we talk star players, but we definitely need a couple of legit 3-D starters to make the team functional and enable everyone to develop in the right enviroment.

As things stand right now, we'll have $20-25M available cap space depending on how the second round goes.

Castle/Tre
Devin/Malaki

That's the guard rotation, imo. Castle will probably share the floor with Tre and can slide to SG or even SF, but I don't think they're going to bring a #4 pick off the bench.
No trades needed.
Wesley will be fighting for his NBA life and will surely get some minutes when Castle or Tre don't suit up.

?/Keldon/Champagnie
?/Jeremy/?

This is just a dire wing rotation and we desperately need at least two players.


Trade 1:

Kings are looking to get rid of Harrison Barnes to go under the tax, he wouldn't cost much and Spurs can absorb his contract.
$18M and $19M in the two upcoming seasons, fair value. Age 32 and 33 seasons, not too old. NBA champion, high charcater guy.
Kings would probably accept some SRPs and Spurs absorbing his contract.

Backup veteran option is Tobias Harris. I think Barnes is a better player, but Harris would be servicable enough. Same age.
I wouldn't offer more than 40/2.

If we're going with a younger option, Pat Williams apparently rejected 64/4 from the Bulls, idk if he's worth more.
Expectations were high and he kind of never delivered.
There were also rumors of PATFO being interested in Naji Marshall, decent rotation option, I guess.
Obi Toppin is also a free agent.

But let's stick with a short-term, veteran option.
That's one wing done.


Trade2:

Cam Johnson appears to be the ideal solution for the second wing.
Nets are bottoming out and I'm sure every playoff team with a FRP to spare will be after him.
DFS would be a consolation price.

As for Cam, he's young enough at 28, on a great deal up until 2027 and has a finals run under his belt.
I think something like '25 CHI, '25 CHA, lottery proected '27 SAS with them taking both Zach and Graham would be a fair deal.
I doubt anyone is offering two actual FRPs for Cam Johnson, even though Bridges trade ruined the market, contenders don't have picks to waste.
If they ask for more, my limit would be worse of '27 SAS/ATL instead of just our own lottery protected pick.

Getting rid of Collins and Graham without waiving him and getting Barnes and Cam Johnson in return would put us $3M below the cap.
$3M below the cap assuming tonight's #35 is traded for Barnes.

Free agency:

Get another backup big with those $3M.
Could even not guarantee Bassey and get up to $5.5M in cap space.
Goga Bitadze looks like an obvious choice. Him being willing to punch coaches is a bonus, tbh.
There's a decent number of veteran options. Drummond, Deandre, Zeller, Plumlee and so on. Could even bring back Barlow, but I don't think he's got enough size.

24-25 roster:

Castle/Tre/Wesley
Devin/Malaki
Cam/Keldon/Champagnie
Barnes/Jeremy/Sidy
Wemby/Bitadze/Bassey

The biggest question mark with this lineup would be if we have enough playmaking, but since PATFO is fully on big point guard train and just used a #4 pick on Castle, they simply have to roll with it.
Tre would be ready to step in if needed.
Four wings are good shooters (giving Keldon benefit of the doubt), with Jeremy hoping to develop his shot and only Keldon is a negative defender.

While this roster doesn't make the playoffs, it would be perfect for the current stage in roster development, imo.
With solid spacing and positive defenders we could easily beat any playoff team on a given night and the bench would be deep.
The most important thing is to have functional spacing and perimeter defense so Wemby and Castle can develop.

If Malaki continues to be awful, just use Champagnie as Devin's backup. I've got no real hope Malaki will actually develop.

Most importantly, this would be a big upgrade over last season's roster without using many assets and it would leave us with a lot of easily moveable contracts and a stash of picks, ready to strike when the opportunity to trade for an actual wing star presents itself. Tre, Keldon, Barnes, Jeremy would all be expendable.
(Yeah right, Brian Wrong is just going to trade Keldon for a 2032 swap. :lol)

[scott]

Thanks for another thoughtful scenario, LeBowen. I was going to do a scenario where our entire rotation was Wemby, Devin, Castle and a bunch of picks in the next decade... but I won't disrespect the seriousness you put into this.

Man, what an improvement that SL would be. The continued hole at wing is what makes moving out of #8 that much more baffling that we wouldn't even take a shot at one... but no need to relitigate all of that.

I like the Cam Johnson option a lot, but I fear that his price will end up too much for the Spurs and their precious future draft capital. I could easily see a team who wants to win-now coming with multiple protected picks or far out picks for Johnson.

Barnes is just an all-around solid vet who would give us leadership presence we so desperately need and his contract is kind of ideal for what we need to slot into our roster in terms of sizing and timing.

Man, I'm salivating over the prospects of a starting 5 who, aside from Castle who will need to develop, have legit shooting ability from 3. It would be a major sea change in the way our offense flows. I like this build.

[CGD]

^ folks are gonne be shocked at the asking price for 29 year old Cam Johnson. Teams are already lining up for him. I like him, I just don’t things the stars will align

Other offseason moves:
- Swap Collins/Blake and Lopez/SRP
- Sign Thobias Harris
- Sign Gary Trent Jr


24-25 roster:

Castle/Tre
Devin/Trent
Tobias/Champaign
Sochan/Keldon
Wemby/Lopez

Deep Bench
- Malaki
- Sidy
- Bassey

[DAF86]

^ folks are gonne be shocked at the asking price for 29 year old Cam Johnson. Teams are already lining up for him. I like him, I just don’t things the stars will align

Other offseason moves:
- Swap Collins/Blake and Lopez/SRP
- Sign Thobias Harris
- Sign Gary Trent Jr


24-25 roster:

Castle/Tre
Devin/Trent
Tobias/Champaign
Sochan/Keldon
Wemby/Lopez

Deep Bench
- Malaki
- Sidy
- Bassey

How much can a 12 ppg 3 and (average) D player really cost? 1 protected first was always the norm. Let's say there's a lot of demand, it can't be more than 2 protected firsts, and that would be an overpay, tbh.

[Ariel]

The way things are shaping up, I think Spurs will go for another (soft) tank this season, gunning for another high lottery pick in a much anticipated draft and then go big game hunting in the '25 free agency and via trades. If that's the case, they better get it right, because they will have wasted Wemby's first two seasons, and they have only one more year until he becomes extension eligible, and I very much doubt he'll sign long term after two horrendous seasons if the third one isn't a home run. So the FO would be under tremendous pressure to get it right, they could thread the needle and lay the foundation for another dynasty, or completely fumble one of the best prospects in NBA history to the point he forces a deal elsewhere after his rookie deal and leaves nothing but barren land.

[DAF86]

Dillingham
Vassell
Castle
Cam
Wemby

Tre
Keldon
Furphy
Sochan
Chomche

What could have been :depressed

[CGD]

How much can a 12 ppg 3 and (average) D player really cost? 1 protected first was always the norm. Let's say there's a lot of demand, it can't be more than 2 protected firsts, and that would be an overpay, tbh.

Zach Lowe was musing it could be two FRPs. I actually like the idea of Cam a fair amount, I just can’t reconcile what we saw this last draft (prioritizing the future timeline in mind) with spending two FRPs on an older piece.

He seems like a good finishing piece for a Cleveland or Dallas. We’re just not there yet.

[scott]

Zach Lowe was musing it could be two FRPs. I actually like the idea of Cam a fair amount, I just can’t reconcile what we saw this last draft (prioritizing the future timeline in mind) with spending two FRPs on an older piece.

He seems like a good finishing piece for a Cleveland or Dallas. We’re just not there yet.

Should have just traded #8 for Cam if the plan was to go after him, tbh.

[CGD]

The other player i think could be interesting is DeAndre Hunter. I know he’s a beta-max and slightly overpaid, but he could play a 3/D role in SA. Good outside shooter, and ive long felt is in the wrong situation.

SAS: Hunter
ATL: Keldon; Blake

Castle
Vassell
Hunter
Sochan
Wemby

[Chinook]

The other player i think could be interesting is DeAndre Hunter. I know he’s a beta-max and slightly overpaid, but he could play a 3/D role in SA. Good outside shooter, and ive long felt is in the wrong situation.

SAS: Hunter
ATL: Keldon; Blake

Castle
Vassell
Hunter
Sochan
Wemby

The Spurs (now) have the cap space to absorb Hunter, and that's basically as far as I'd be willing to go

[spurraider21]

Wild that the spurs could have had Castle, Dillingham, and Furphy without having to move up at all

[CGD]

The Spurs (now) have the cap space to absorb Hunter, and that's basically as far as I'd be willing to go

I’m fine with that. Just thought about swapping players with no/negative trade value, and thinning our herd a little.

I’d also swap Lopez and Collins.

Castle/Tre
Vassell/Malaki
Hunter/Champaign
Sochan/TBD
Wemby/Lopez

[scott]

This was fun to read back on.

Lots of bad takes by a lot of people, including myself. I won't quote them. We all make mistakes.

However... I will say, that too many people were waaaaaay too high on Patrick Williams :lol

[scottspurs]

This was fun to read back on.

Lots of bad takes by a lot of people, including myself. I won't quote them. We all make mistakes.

However... I will say, that too many people were waaaaaay to high on Patrick Williams :lol

if you look closely Patrick Williams and Carter Bryant are the same person