Robert Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft Prospect

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/robert-dillingham-spurs-164-pound-question/

Spurs Ceiling Comparison: More Explosive Patty Mills

Spurs Floor Comparison: Skinnier Speedy Claxton

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[TrainOfThought5]

More explosive Patty Mills?! Wow that’s a pessimistic take! I was thinking young Tony Parker with Elite outside shooting!

[HankChinaski]

Dillingham is still on list of players to target. His body control with some contact an off the dribble shooting is amazing. His defense is a concern but still like him overall with one of our picks as well.

[TrainOfThought5]

Dillingham is still on list of players to target. His body control with contact an off the dribble is amazing. His defense is a concern but still like him overall with one of our picks as well.

Kyrie is not a good defender. Tony Parker was not a good defender. I think PG defense is overblown for Elite Offensive Creators.

[MultiTroll]

Over rated.

[HankChinaski]

I don't think he will an NBA all-star. But I would draft him at 8 basically just for his scoring potential and to Alleviate scoring issues as the team is currently constructed.

[NASpurs]

Will more than likely be there at 8

[HankChinaski]

Kyrie is not a good defender. Tony Parker was not a good defender. I think PG defense is overblown for Elite Offensive Creators.
The only concern is a player like dillingham being targeted heavily and being able to have them on the court it tight games. What lineups you throw out there to balance his positives on offense to when he is on defense.

What I mean with concerns with defense.

[TrainOfThought5]

Over rated.

his defensive concerns are overrated. He’ll have Wemby behind him.

[Chinook]

I would've said upside were more like "Australian National Team Mills but able to translate to the NBA". Spurs Mills where he was a shooter and opportunistic scorer is very different from the Mills who play internationally. I do see that upside in Dilly where he can shoot and put also take advantage of any space the defense gives him. The real question isn't offense, since he's still more likely to be the third option if everything works out, and he would be able to do that even if he can't finish reliably through contact. The question is if he can be useful on defense. His size isn't really an issue, because there are defensive schemes where guys that size can play a role. Mills himself was a great point defender when the Spurs ran zone. Dilly doesn't have to be big -- he just has to be aggressive and disruptive, and that's more mental than anything. But some of his interviews bring the mental part into question. A Dilly who can contribute to a defense which is carried by others can be a championship PG provided the offense comes along. A Dilly who is incompetent on defense as much as he's overpowered is more of a sixth man than anything else. A sixth-man Dilly is well worth the eighth pick, but not necessarily the fourth.

[MultiTroll]

his defensive concerns are overrated. He’ll have Wemby behind him.
Ya maybe we can stack the roster with Pops Pets and overburden Wemby.

[Mr. Body]

meh

[drpill]

Still my favourite prospect for the Spurs in this year's draft. I'm confident Dillingham and Wembanyama would find a powerful synergy on the offensive end of the floor. Both are extremely creative players and brilliant improvisers -- Wemby deserves teammates who can read the game like he can, so they can elevate one another. A team is not merely the sum of its parts, both for better and, as we've seen at times, worse. Dillingham's on- and off-ball skills are a key missing ingredient for this team, and his shooting is desperately needed.

Defensively, he will always be a problem. If he could eventually approach average, it would be a huge win. But outside of mental lapses, what I mostly saw from Dillingham on the defensive side was that his lack of size and strength led to him getting backed down and overpowered, leading to easy buckets. But with Wemby looming as a help defender this glaring weakness is significantly less worrisome. It could even lead to an extra easy block or two for Vic each game as teams try to take advantage.

I say go for it at 4 if Risacher and Castle are gone, don't try to get cute so you can pick one middling wing over another. In that scenario I like Dilly at 4 and BPA at 8.

[TrainOfThought5]

Ya maybe we can stack the roster with Pops Pets and overburden Wemby.

That strategy Rang 5 times with Duncan. And Dilly would be a better offensive contributor than most guards that Duncan played with.

[LeBowen]

One thing I don't understand is why people hype up Sheppard's shooting when Dillingham takes way more difficult shots from every possible situation and still has elite efficency?

If Spurs want a shooter, Dillingham has to be the pick.

[GAustex]

When I watched Kentucky he seemed to be on the bench a lot and the white dude was the point

[Joseph Kony]

PG defense is extremely overrated. if the Spurs can surround Wemby with at least two more competent defenders in the SL, it wont matter if Dilly sucks on defense. kid has a lot of offensive talent and we need a PG, i hope if they do not end up trading for Young/Garland that they nab him in the draft. Our defense is terrible but that is easier to fix imo, Spurs need someone who can actually score the rock which has been sorely missed these last few years

[Mr. Body]

When I watched Kentucky he seemed to be on the bench a lot and the white dude was the point

You never watched Kentucky, then, because that was never true.

[ChumpDumper]

When I watched Kentucky he seemed to be on the bench a lot and the white dude was the point

So the black dude's production per minute was that much better? :wow

[heyheymymy]

When I watched Kentucky he seemed to be on the bench a lot and the white dude was the point

he and "the white dude" checked in together off the bench and played as a duo pretty much all season

[Mr. Body]

he and "the white dude" checked in together off the bench and played as a duo pretty much all season

Right, and while they shared point duties, it was often Dillingham who took more possessions there, in part because Sheppard is incredible off-ball, in part because Dillingham was so good breaking defenses and has a much better handle.

It is true that Dillingham had to take the bench at times due to foul trouble. He does foul too much.

[MultiTroll]

That strategy Rang 5 times with Duncan. And Dilly would be a better offensive contributor than most guards that Duncan played with.
Ok we can check back in 5 years and see how that's working out.

[objective]

Patty Mills ceiling and bad defense?

Sounds like pops idea of a good guy to get switched onto Durant with no help

[BatManu20]

My hopeful pick at 8 with Castle being our guy at 4. He may not even be available at that point. Theoretically he should be, but a team like Charlotte could take him at 6 with LaMelo's injury history or a team like Utah could trade up ahead of us and take him. You never know, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him go in the top-7. Rockets at 3 may even be interested.

Either way, I think he's definitely BPA if he's still there at 8. He and Castle would compliment each other well. And as for his size/weight, yea he's always gonna be undersized. But with Wemby and Castle theoretically on the floor together, they can help mask some of his defensive shortcomings. He's the lead Guard we need and his offense has a chance to be a pretty damn good one for the foreseeable future. Reminds me so much of Brandon Jennings. Same exact height/weight and playing style, only he's right-handed.

[scott]

The handful of late season UK games I watched, I was actually impressed with Dillingham's effort level on defense. Don't need him to be Jrue Holiday, just need him to be enough of a pest there.

I'm more concerned about how his size impacts his durability than it impacts his in-game play. Can he hold up to 30+ mpg for 82 games? This might be a big factor that ultimate suits him to be a better sixth man (which is still a very important role). With that said, size doesn't seem to limit Trae Young's ability to hold up, so maybe it won't impact Dillingham either.

He remains firmly locked in with Sheppard and Castle as interchangable 3-4-5 slots on my amateur board.

[BatManu20]

Could also see the Spurs passing on a PG altogether and signing a vet PG for this season in hopes that they can land Nolan Traoré in next year's draft tbh. Not a really a fan of putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak, but I guarantee he's all over the Spurs radar already. A 6'4+ multi-dimensional PG who plays great defense, can pass, shoot, attack the basket, play both on and off-ball, and who also excels in PnR is PATFO's wet dream (and any NBA front office's tbh). He's going to be a hot commodity in next year's draft imo.


nhTv0TYKzmE?si=_0GwIiFUQz1za26v

[Knoxxx]

If we draft Dilly and Edey, is Edey allowed to throw Dilly at the basket while he's holding the ball? Could work, is that legal? Then when teams catch on he could maybe dump or alley to Wemby mid flight.

This just dawned on me, since he is only a buck 60 he could easily be thrown by a strong player. The Dilly Alley Oop. Or maybe jump off someone's shoulders, like a small child in a swimming pool does.

[SpursBills]

If we draft Dilly and Edey, is Edey allowed to throw Dilly at the basket while he's holding the ball? Could work, is that legal? Then when teams catch on he could maybe dump or alley to Wemby mid flight.

This just dawned on me, since he is only a buck 60 he could easily be thrown by a strong player. The Dilly Alley Oop. Or maybe jump off someone's shoulders, like a small child in a swimming pool does.

"If you don't like that, you don't like NBA basketball"

[Mr. Body]

Risk repeating myself but with some new stuff.

- Dude apparently shot 21/45 contested on threes, 21/43 uncontested on threes. That's 46.7% contested/guarded on threes, 48.8% on open threes. This means... it had absolutely no effect on him when he was guarded. That's completely wild to me.

- Talk about him being like Trae Young or whatever, but he shot way, way better in college than Trae did. It's not even close. (Sheppard, too, of course.)

- He's an instant advantage creator. His handling and quickness, the hesitations, spins, feints, step-backs, give him space very, very quickly. With his (in college) ability to hit even with defenders, he's potentially a big threat.

- He lobs the shit out of the ball. He loved lobbing to Kentucky's bigs on rolls, in transition, on cuts. He was always tossing lobs. His chemistry with Ivisic was particularly great. If you're complaining about guys not getting Wemby looks or not trusting themselves on delivery, that's not a problem here. If he sees Wemby around the rim, I imagine the ball's going up.

- He's clutch. Numerous games, he was digging Kentucky back. In the famous loss against Oakland he seemed like he could do it again, nailed a really tough 3 at the 1:03 mark to cut it to one, and... never saw the ball again.

- The defense... Honestly, it's horrible, fucking terrible. I've never seen such bad rotations, decisions, not knowing what the fuck to do. But he did improve. His high school experience was with Kanye West Academy and Overtime Elite, no place where he got a lick of defensive coaching. It was absurd the things he was doing earlier in the season. But he did get better. Honestly, he did. And he's active, like, calling switches and chattering. He's just still bad at it. Worst, to me, is that he ball-watches, disengages, gives up on plays. That shit is horrible. When he nearly beat LSU on a dagger shot (after multiple dagger plays), his ball-watching cost them the game because his man secured the offensive rebound on LSU's subsequent miss.

That's horrible. BUT... if you can get him to buy-in, get that he's losing possessions and games because he's not fully in... I honestly, dear-to-God, think he can be okay on defense. The size is not great, but below a threshold it doesn't really matter. What DOES matter for him is that he's quick. Against Oakland, he was actually their only decent defender (still was helping off of Gohlke for some fucking reason), because of his quickness. Screens don't really seem to affect him. He's like a water bug getting around them. It's... the rest.

Verdict: Best player in the draft, to me. Very easily, and then there's some talent behind. His ceiling is very high, if you can teach him to become alright on defense. His handles are elite, his quickness is elite, his shooting is elite, and he's clutch. If, at worst, you have a guy who can only come off the bench, a guy who you throw in there for a complete change of pace from Wembanyama-centric offense, a guy who when you're down twelve points can maybe start reeling off threes and getting into the lane, then that's still worth a #8 or even a #4 pick in this draft to me.

[BatManu20]

If we draft Dilly and Edey, is Edey allowed to throw Dilly at the basket while he's holding the ball? Could work, is that legal? Then when teams catch on he could maybe dump or alley to Wemby mid flight.

This just dawned on me, since he is only a buck 60 he could easily be thrown by a strong player. The Dilly Alley Oop. Or maybe jump off someone's shoulders, like a small child in a swimming pool does.

Almost zero chance Spurs draft Edey imo. Would be shocked. I think OKC takes Edey at 12 to help combat Wemby. They lack size on the interior as is and they know Chet cant guard Wemby. Edey cant either, but it gives them some interior help to combat him and teams like Minny. Unless Cody Williams is available at 12, I wouldn't surprised if they took Edey at that spot.

[Knoxxx]

"If you don't like that, you don't like NBA basketball"

Probably some dumb rule against it, like in football how you can't jump on someone to block a kick. I guess it does carry some elevated injury risk.

[Mr. Body]

The handful of late season UK games I watched, I was actually impressed with Dillingham's effort level on defense. Don't need him to be Jrue Holiday, just need him to be enough of a pest there.


Hundred percent agree. The worst defender in the draft, to me, isn't like a Dillingham, who really was trying and improving, but didn't really know what he was doing. The worst was Isaiah Collier, who just didn't give a crap.

[Knoxxx]

Risk repeating myself but with some new stuff.

- Dude apparently shot 21/45 contested on threes, 21/43 uncontested on threes. That's 46.7% contested/guarded on threes, 48.8% on open threes. This means... it had absolutely no effect on him when he was guarded. That's completely wild to me.

- Talk about him being like Trae Young or whatever, but he shot way, way better in college than Trae did. It's not even close. (Sheppard, too, of course.)

- He's an instant advantage creator. His handling and quickness, the hesitations, spins, feints, step-backs, give him space very, very quickly. With his (in college) ability to hit even with defenders, he's potentially a big threat.

- He lobs the shit out of the ball. He loved lobbing to Kentucky's bigs on rolls, in transition, on cuts. He was always tossing lobs. His chemistry with Ivisic was particularly great. If you're complaining about guys not getting Wemby looks or not trusting themselves on delivery, that's not a problem here. If he sees Wemby around the rim, I imagine the ball's going up.

- He's clutch. Numerous games, he was digging Kentucky back. In the famous loss against Oakland he seemed like he could do it again, nailed a really tough 3 at the 1:03 mark to cut it to one, and... never saw the ball again.

- The defense... Honestly, it's horrible, fucking terrible. I've never seen such bad rotations, decisions, not knowing what the fuck to do. But he did improve. His high school experience was with Kanye West Academy and Overtime Elite, no place where he got a lick of defensive coaching. It was absurd the things he was doing earlier in the season. But he did get better. Honestly, he did. And he's active, like, calling switches and chattering. He's just still bad at it. Worst, to me, is that he ball-watches, disengages, gives up on plays. That shit is horrible. When he nearly beat LSU on a dagger shot (after multiple dagger plays), his ball-watching cost them the game because his man secured the offensive rebound on LSU's subsequent miss.

That's horrible. BUT... if you can get him to buy-in, get that he's losing possessions and games because he's not fully in... I honestly, dear-to-God, think he can be okay on defense. The size is not great, but below a threshold it doesn't really matter. What DOES matter for him is that he's quick. Against Oakland, he was actually their only decent defender (still was helping off of Gohlke for some fucking reason), because of his quickness. Screens don't really seem to affect him. He's like a water bug getting around them. It's... the rest.

Verdict: Best player in the draft, to me. Very easily, and then there's some talent behind. His ceiling is very high, if you can teach him to become alright on defense. His handles are elite, his quickness is elite, his shooting is elite, and he's clutch. If, at worst, you have a guy who can only come off the bench, a guy who you throw in there for a complete change of pace from Wembanyama-centric offense, a guy who when you're down twelve points can maybe start reeling off threes and getting into the lane, then that's still worth a #8 or even a #4 pick in this draft to me.

He's too risky for the 4 when you can have either Castle or Sheppard there. Sheppard can at least maybe be the next Mark Price or something, he's a safer pick that Dilly. Better shooter, bigger, better defender. I think Dilly is a nice flyer at 8 though. If he can outscore his man, then I am not sure why I care about his defense? Can someone explain that to my caveman self?

[LeBowen]

He's too risky for the 4 when you can have either Castle or Sheppard there. Sheppard can at least maybe be the next Mark Price or something, he's a safer pick that Dilly. Better shooter, bigger, better defender. I think Dilly is a nice flyer at 8 though. If he can outscore his man, then I am not sure why I care about his defense? Can someone explain that to my caveman self?

Sheppard wasn't good enough for full time point guard duties in college, he has zero chance whatsoever to be a point guard in the NBA.
Why is Sheppard a better shooter? Please find me some of his deep shots off the dribble, contested or while he's still moving?
Then you look at Dillingham's shot selection and he looks like the second coming of AI with deeper range.
I'm not saying it's going to translate to the NBA, but all of Sheppard's shots look so cherry picked his percentage becomes irrelevant.

Better defender? If he can't be POA, it doesn't matter.
Look at Tre. He gives maximum effort every single possession, has solid understanding on how he should position himself, but he's just too small and gets torched by every good playmaker.
1/10 or 3/10 defender isn't much of a difference for us.

[heyheymymy]

Dillingham has been a roller coaster for me. My first sim I mocked with Cody Williams and Rob Dillingham back in March or something. If you watched UK Wildcats it was a horse race with Dillingham first, then discovering Reed Sheppard and kind of going back and forth as to who would be best in SA.

Sheppard came out really high in Givony's data based board and he had a huge game with the game winner and the balance shifted and people wanted Sheppard more suddenly.

I'm basically almost all the way back to Dillingham now but as you can see it's a back-and-forth tough choice. I could see Dillingham become a force or a flop.

[heyheymymy]

My problem with Dillingham is if his shot isn't falling what does he give you? With Castle he gives you size and defense, with Sheppard he gives you defense and BBIQ, but Dilly has a bad shooting night and how is he not just Branham with extra steps?

Comes down to will Dilly learn defense vs will Castle learn to shoot? Which is more likely?

[drpill]

I can see the case for Castle over Dillingham at 4. I don't love it but if you can manage to get both of them (or Risacher/Dilly) it's a coup. Sheppard though, no, even though I like him and he'd make a nice consolation prize. I'd prefer to take a swing at Dillingham's upside all day. To me he has more potential to raise this team's ceiling than anyone else in the draft.

[LeBowen]

Dillingham can become a great playmaker and impact the game even with his shot isn't falling.

Sheppard and Vassell at guards would mean we need a point forward.

[Mr. Body]

He's too risky for the 4 when you can have either Castle or Sheppard there. Sheppard can at least maybe be the next Mark Price or something, he's a safer pick that Dilly. Better shooter, bigger, better defender. I think Dilly is a nice flyer at 8 though. If he can outscore his man, then I am not sure why I care about his defense? Can someone explain that to my caveman self?

I can see those rationales, I just feel like Dillingham is the best talent and potentially transforms the Spurs. I also think he could go higher than anyone right now expects or that Detroit/Charlotte will get smart about this. I like Sheppard, but think he's more limited than I'd wish. Anyway, anyway I can get Castle and Dillingham out of this draft, I feel like I nailed my hopes.

[Knoxxx]

Sheppard wasn't good enough for full time point guard duties in college, he has zero chance whatsoever to be a point guard in the NBA.
Why is Sheppard a better shooter? Please find me some of his deep shots off the dribble, contested or while he's still moving?
Then you look at Dillingham's shot selection and he looks like the second coming of AI with deeper range.
I'm not saying it's going to translate to the NBA, but all of Sheppard's shots look so cherry picked his percentage becomes irrelevant.

Better defender? If he can't be POA, it doesn't matter.
Look at Tre. He gives maximum effort every single possession, has solid understanding on how he should position himself, but he's just too small and gets torched by every good playmaker.
1/10 or 3/10 defender isn't much of a difference for us.

So first off you agree with me that Sheppard is the better defender so that's a start, even though you do about a good a job of articulating that as the Fonz trying to say he's wrong (can't do). Now the part about Sheppard shoots 10% higher, but that's because he takes easier shots. Pretty shaky, but why not just admit you have a man crush on Dilly and be done with it? I don't have a problem with you just saying Dilly is more dynamic, so he's your choice. The jury is out as to whether either is a PG solution, that much they have in common.

I dedicate this video to you, my friend:


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x237vwo

[Mr. Body]

My problem with Dillingham is if his shot isn't falling what does he give you? With Castle he gives you size and defense, with Sheppard he gives you defense and BBIQ, but Dilly has a bad shooting night and how is he not just Branham with extra steps?

Comes down to will Dilly learn defense vs will Castle learn to shoot? Which is more likely?

If his shot isn't falling, he's super quick and can get into the lane. Pretty different than Parker, but they both could more or less get to wherever they wanted to go. Dillingham's playmaking is pretty underrated. Not a genius passer, but he makes snap passes and sees them well, most important he places them well. He got more assists per 36 minutes than any first round PG prospect other than Kolek, including Sheppard.

Now, if the question is whether his shooting never translates, or if he just has off-games, that's another question. But even if he doesn't shoot 44% from three and is more like 38% or 39% that's... actually better than Trae by some ticks.

[scott]

Could also see the Spurs passing on a PG altogether and signing a vet PG for this season in hopes that they can land Nolan Traoré in next year's draft tbh. Not a really a fan of putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak, but I guarantee he's all over the Spurs radar already. A 6'4+ multi-dimensional PG who plays great defense, can pass, shoot, attack the basket, play both on and off-ball, and who also excels in PnR is PATFO's wet dream (and any NBA front office's tbh). He's going to be a hot commodity in next year's draft imo.


nhTv0TYKzmE?si=_0GwIiFUQz1za26v

I'd say that you don't worry about next year's draft and you draft the best players that are available. If that is a PG (say, Dillingham) and you're in a position to take Traore next year and he is the best player and fit available, you do it and figure it out then. Worst case scenario is that you have two really good PGs on your team, and Traore can probabl play next to a guy like Dillingham anyway. Sounds like a good problem to have.

[Knoxxx]

If his shot isn't falling, he's super quick and can get into the lane. Pretty different than Parker, but they both could more or less get to wherever they wanted to go. Dillingham's playmaking is pretty underrated. Not a genius passer, but he makes snap passes and sees them well, most important he places them well. He got more assists per 36 minutes than any first round PG prospect other than Kolek, including Sheppard.

Now, if the question is whether his shooting never translates, or if he just has off-games, that's another question. But even if he doesn't shoot 44% from three and is more like 38% or 39% that's... actually better than Trae by some ticks.

That's actually better than anyone on the Spurs team. no I am not counting McDoormat

[LeBowen]

So first off you agree with me that Sheppard is the better defender so that's a start, even though you do about a good a job of articulating that as the Fonz trying to say he's wrong (can't do). Now the part about Sheppard shoots 10% higher, but that's because he takes easier shots. Pretty shaky, but why not just admit you have a man crush on Dilly and be done with it? I don't have a problem with you just saying Dilly is more dynamic, so he's your choice. The jury is out as to whether either is a PG solution, that much they have in common.

I dedicate this video to you, my friend:


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x237vwo

Him being better doesn't mean he's good enough of a defender.
No scouting report has him as POA.

I'm not that high on Dillingham, but I acknowledge that he's one of tbe few players with star potential in this class.
Sheppard definitely isn't one of them.

[BatManu20]

I'd say that you don't worry about next year's draft and you draft the best players that are available. If that is a PG (say, Dillingham) and you're in a position to take Traore next year and he is the best player and fit available, you do it and figure it out then. Worst case scenario is that you have two really good PGs on your team, and Traore can probabl play next to a guy like Dillingham anyway. Sounds like a good problem to have.

Agreed 100%. That's why I said I don't like putting all your eggs in one basket. Too risky, and I'm confident (I hope) that PATFO are smarter than that. You take BPA, especially iff it's at a position pf need, period. W just food for thought.

[GAustex]

Is there one player his size getting minutes in the playoffs
Irving?
Pass on this dude

[drpill]

There are/were plenty of players Dillingham's height making an impact in the playoffs. He gives up some pounds to all of them but he isn't short compared to McConnell, Brunson, Irving, etc. McConnell is 6'1" with a 6'0" wingspan and was as essential as anyone for the Pacers' run.

[PhantomDashCam]

I’ve mentioned this before, but is anyone concerned about the wear and tear his body takes on some of these self-creation opportunities?
If he’s injured atm, why do you guys think that is?
His landings on some of these jumpers is extremely awkward and adds up through the course of the season.

I remember the Spurs had to teach TP how to land on some of his forays into the paint or risk shortening his career.
How do you do that on Jumpers?

[GAustex]

So there is no player his size in the playoffs

Pass on this dude
Another trea

[bevo]

Not particularly fond of him. Think he'll put up some high scoring games, but how much will he give up on the other end? He might pair well with a player like Stephen castle. Won't be upset if we draft him, but he's not at the top of my list either.

[Dejounte]

The weaknesses of this guy is so drastic but this draft is so poor that he’s the preferred choice over many other average candidates at our picks. Everything is so alarming about him on defense that I don’t think people are prepared for what they’re going to witness when he’s in the NBA. If people think Wemby will be able to hide his Forbes-level defense, fine. But the guy is foul-happy and probably won’t be able to stay on the court to even showcase his offense consistently. It’s a terrible pick but it’s also a pick we have to make if Sheppard or Castle aren’t there at 4.

[Uriel]

If Dillngham is a gifted scorer with no defense to speak of, wouldn’t that essentially make him a smaller, lighter, PG version of Branham?

[MultiTroll]

Could also see the Spurs passing on a PG altogether and signing a vet PG for this season in hopes that they can land Nolan Traoré in next year's draft tbh. Not a really a fan of putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak, but I guarantee he's all over the Spurs radar already. A 6'4+ multi-dimensional PG who plays great defense, can pass, shoot, attack the basket, play both on and off-ball, and who also excels in PnR is PATFO's wet dream (and any NBA front office's tbh). He's going to be a hot commodity in next year's draft imo.


nhTv0TYKzmE?si=_0GwIiFUQz1za26v
Surely Tony Porker would be all over this and informing the Spurs.

For that matter Wemby himself.

Bruno, Pauleta can you give us a direct Frenchy report?

[GAustex]

Spurs competition would pick with this dude and the Luka or Ant or SGA would abuse this little fellow

[NASpurs]

Spurs competition would pick with this dude and the Luka or Ant or SGA would abuse this little fellow

This guy is going to get head hunted to death. :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

lol Patty Mills never had those handles. His ceiling is at least Darius Garland. I'm extremely high on Dillingham and got him #2 on my board. Definitely want us to draft him. He's definitely a swing for the fences type of pick, but if he hits it would transform our entire offense for the better.

[poopbox]

more explosive patty mills :lol

Dilli must have smashed timvp chick or something :lmao

[Chinook]

I'd say that you don't worry about next year's draft and you draft the best players that are available. If that is a PG (say, Dillingham) and you're in a position to take Traore next year and he is the best player and fit available, you do it and figure it out then. Worst case scenario is that you have two really good PGs on your team, and Traore can probabl play next to a guy like Dillingham anyway. Sounds like a good problem to have.

That's even more true given that Tre is going to be a free agent next year and might not even last the season if the Spurs are out of the playoff race at the deadline. Traore wouldn't be competiting with Dilly for minutes at that point; he'd be competing with Wesley or some second-rounder. Needless to say, you don't not draft a guy because of that.

[baseline bum]

Dilly being only 164 lb scares the shit out of me since it's not likely he can ever get to 185-190 in that frame but his shooting, speed, and ballhandling makes me still like him as my second choice in this draft, behind only Risacher (with Sarr obviously not even worth considering at 4 since no way in hell he lasts that long).

[baseline bum]

The weaknesses of this guy is so drastic but this draft is so poor that he’s the preferred choice over many other average candidates at our picks. Everything is so alarming about him on defense that I don’t think people are prepared for what they’re going to witness when he’s in the NBA. If people think Wemby will be able to hide his Forbes-level defense, fine. But the guy is foul-happy and probably won’t be able to stay on the court to even showcase his offense consistently. It’s a terrible pick but it’s also a pick we have to make if Sheppard or Castle aren’t there at 4.

I'm prepared for Branham level defense, especially in his rookie year, but at least with an offensive game to go with it.

[Mr. Body]

I'm prepared for Branham level defense, especially in his rookie year, but at least with an offensive game to go with it.

I said it above, the problem with Dillingham won't quite be the same problem with Branham. They both disengage and just start watching after the action moves past them. Big problem. The big difference is that Branham completely dies on screens. He gets screened and it's game over. I've seen the same with Sheppard, to be honest.

The problem with Dillingham is not getting rotations, blowing assignments. In that, he's gotten better. But he's quick enough to stick with players and screens aren't a problem. The issues he has are similar but also different than Branham. I think Branham may be a lost cause. I'm not sure about Rob.

Rob's size isn't a concern to me. If you have Jalen Brunson wanting to post him up ten times a game, that's not a horror show. You can gameplan that, and it's not even an efficient shot. What else is the problem with the size? The quickness more than makes up for it.

The people who swear Dillingham is the worst defender ever don't know what they're talking about. It's just repeated garbage. Yes, he's horrible. That's not the whole story.

[024]

I don't know why the Spurs would want the worst and second worst defending guards on their team in Dillingham and Branham. Still value Sheppard over Dillingham right now but 1) Sheppard might not make it to #8 and 2) Sheppard's defense can prove to be just as bad. Will see how the workouts go.

[tbdog]

Dilly wouldn't be able to stop a one on one fastbreak. Not the slightest unless he developers a godly charging skill. Players will just just go up for a layup. He is unlikely going to crash offensive glass. He also wouldn't be able to defend the upper paint. Players would just shove him out of the way without extensions.

With two picks, Spurs should seriously consider him at 8 though because the offensive upside is there. Wemby gravity is going to be nuts. Dilly shooting and quick movement around screens is a weapon if it all works out.

So spurs should draft a sure thing at 4 and dilly at 8 imo.

[baseline bum]

Dilly wouldn't be able to stop a one on one fastbreak. Not the slightest unless he developers a godly charging skill. Players will just just go up for a layup. He is unlikely going to crash offensive glass. He also wouldn't be able to defend the upper paint. Players would just shove him out of the way without extensions.

With two picks, Spurs should seriously consider him at 8 though because the offensive upside is there. Wemby gravity is going to be nuts. Dilly shooting and quick movement around screens is a weapon if it all works out.

So spurs should draft a sure thing at 4 and dilly at 8 imo.

What sure thing at 4? Not even a sure thing to draft at 1.

[tbdog]

What sure thing at 4? Not even a sure thing to draft at 1.

Well, try identify is there a future playoff rotational player. Sheppard and Castle I think both could be sure thing rotational players of there game developers accordingly. Where as that Matas guy seems more of a risk.

[poopbox]

People saying Dilli is to small. He is like an inch shorter and 10 pounds lighter than Ja. Is size a problem for Ja when he was literally jumping over Poeltl every time we played. Didn't seem like it.:rollin

His defense is bad. What rookie point guard defense isn't bad? Let me go check and see all the rookie point guards who made an all defensive team. Damn i can't find one.

It's like all you guys watched the same podcast or something and came back with the exact same talking points.

If Dilli is there at 4 he is the no brainer pick. And he might not even be there at 4. Washington has a new regime and they might just draft him cause they need almost everything other than a shooting guard. The rockets are a real team wit no PG behind Van Fleet and they already have to many wings so he makes perfect sense for them.

I can't believe people would rather have Castle over Dilli. Castle at 8 is fine. But I guess some people want two Devin Vassels instead of one.

[Knoxxx]

The weaknesses of this guy is so drastic but this draft is so poor that he’s the preferred choice over many other average candidates at our picks. Everything is so alarming about him on defense that I don’t think people are prepared for what they’re going to witness when he’s in the NBA. If people think Wemby will be able to hide his Forbes-level defense, fine. But the guy is foul-happy and probably won’t be able to stay on the court to even showcase his offense consistently. It’s a terrible pick but it’s also a pick we have to make if Sheppard or Castle aren’t there at 4.

That must be some good stuff you’re smoking! Dilly projects to be there at 8. There is no need to reach for him at 4. There are at least 5-6 choices we will have at 8 that are all reasonable within the top 12.

But the beauty of that is it also makes your argument that we can “afford” to take Dilly at 4. Except the obvious math error you are making that Castle and Sheppard being gone at 4 means we get either Sarr or Risacher.

Thank you, come again.

[Knoxxx]

Spurs competition would pick with this dude and the Luka or Ant or SGA would abuse this little fellow

This is loser thinking. What if the other team actually had to also adapt to the lightning quickness of Dilly? Say by keeping a small fast guard in the game when he’s in to try and keep up with him? This is a disease on this board, thinking we have to play the same way as any other team and react to other teams rather than make them react to us.

Think out of the box, man! I know it’s hard!

[itzsoweezee]

People saying Dilli is to small. He is like an inch shorter and 10 pounds lighter than Ja. Is size a problem for Ja when he was literally jumping over Poeltl every time we played. Didn't seem like it.:rollin

His defense is bad. What rookie point guard defense isn't bad? Let me go check and see all the rookie point guards who made an all defensive team. Damn i can't find one.

It's like all you guys watched the same podcast or something and came back with the exact same talking points.

If Dilli is there at 4 he is the no brainer pick. And he might not even be there at 4. Washington has a new regime and they might just draft him cause they need almost everything other than a shooting guard. The rockets are a real team wit no PG behind Van Fleet and they already have to many wings so he makes perfect sense for them.

I can't believe people would rather have Castle over Dilli. Castle at 8 is fine. But I guess some people want two Devin Vassels instead of one.

What are we doing here? Every small guy has the same potential?

Ja has like a 6’7” wingspan and supreme athleticism.

[rascal]

People saying Dilli is to small. He is like an inch shorter and 10 pounds lighter than Ja. Is size a problem for Ja when he was literally jumping over Poeltl every time we played. Didn't seem like it.:rollin

His defense is bad. What rookie point guard defense isn't bad? Let me go check and see all the rookie point guards who made an all defensive team. Damn i can't find one.

It's like all you guys watched the same podcast or something and came back with the exact same talking points.

If Dilli is there at 4 he is the no brainer pick. And he might not even be there at 4. Washington has a new regime and they might just draft him cause they need almost everything other than a shooting guard. The rockets are a real team wit no PG behind Van Fleet and they already have to many wings so he makes perfect sense for them.

I can't believe people would rather have Castle over Dilli. Castle at 8 is fine. But I guess some people want two Devin Vassels instead of one.

Ja is much more athletic and quicker than Dillingham.

[GAustex]

This is loser thinking. What if the other team actually had to also adapt to the lightning quickness of Dilly? Say by keeping a small fast guard in the game when he’s in to try and keep up with him? This is a disease on this board, thinking we have to play the same way as any other team and react to other teams rather than make them react to us.

Think out of the box, man! I know it’s hard!

You know who are losers Greg popobich and the clusterfucks
Fuck you

[poopbox]

Ja is much more athletic and quicker than Dillingham.

More athletic? Sure. Ja is one of the most athletic point guards ever. I'd actually only put young Derrick Rose and young Westbrook over him, and those guys had borderline inhuman jumping ability when they came into the league.

Quicker? Not so sure. Dillig is lightning quick. Watchin his film and count how many times he beats an ice coverage because he is just that quick, or how many times he splits a double team that they know he is going to try to split because again, he is just that quick.

[poopbox]

What are we doing here? Every small guy has the same potential?

Ja has like a 6’7” wingspan and supreme athleticism.

The point is to show that just because someone is small doesn't mean they can't play.

Dilly isn't as atheltic as Ja, but he is plenty athletic enough to be the type of point guard we need.

[itzsoweezee]

All of Trae’s defensive weaknesses, with only a sliver of Trae’s offensive game. This guy is destined to be a career bench player. A 6 foot shooting guard is not what the spurs need.

[itzsoweezee]

The point is to show that just because someone is small doesn't mean they can't play.

Dilly isn't as atheltic as Ja, but he is plenty athletic enough to be the type of point guard we need.

The problem is, he’s not a point guard.

[Knoxxx]

You know who are losers Greg popobich and the clusterfucks
Fuck you

Who peed on your wheaties?

[TrainOfThought5]

Is there one player his size getting minutes in the playoffs
Irving?
Pass on this dude

disingenuous statement because Kyrie-lite is Dillingham’s ceiling.

[GAustex]

Who peed on your wheaties?
Fuck you loser

[TrainOfThought5]

The weaknesses of this guy is so drastic but this draft is so poor that he’s the preferred choice over many other average candidates at our picks. Everything is so alarming about him on defense that I don’t think people are prepared for what they’re going to witness when he’s in the NBA. If people think Wemby will be able to hide his Forbes-level defense, fine. But the guy is foul-happy and probably won’t be able to stay on the court to even showcase his offense consistently. It’s a terrible pick but it’s also a pick we have to make if Sheppard or Castle aren’t there at 4.

No. If Sheppard or Castle aren’t there at four we draft Risacher or Sarr, drink wine, and laugh our asses off.

[GAustex]

disingenuous statement because in my mind Kyrie-lite is Dillingham’s cieling.
I do not think spurs need a mini guard like that fool in ATL/Young

[TrainOfThought5]

I do not think spurs need a mini guard like that fool in ATL/Young

he’s a much better shooter than young. Much cheaper too, and he’s won’t be the first option on this team. Relax.

[rankingtear]

He is functionally the smallest player in the league next year. The only way he is a starter is if he is an all-nba caliber player on offense. It would be fun to watch though but it won't move the needle even if he hits.

[Knoxxx]

Fuck you loser

No, YOU!!!

[Knoxxx]

No. If Sheppard or Castle aren’t there at four we draft Risacher or Sarr, drink wine, and laugh our asses off.

Yeah Amen bro that was what I said! Certain posters being near tears over nothing though, reminds me to stop nit picking peoples posts, even obvious idiots.

[Knoxxx]

He is functionally the smallest player in the league next year. The only way he is a starter is if he is an all-nba caliber player on offense. It would be fun to watch though but it won't move the needle even if he hits.

He’s lightning in a bottle, I actually like him a lot, at 8 though.

[Dejounte]

That must be some good stuff you’re smoking! Dilly projects to be there at 8. There is no need to reach for him at 4. There are at least 5-6 choices we will have at 8 that are all reasonable within the top 12.

But the beauty of that is it also makes your argument that we can “afford” to take Dilly at 4. Except the obvious math error you are making that Castle and Sheppard being gone at 4 means we get either Sarr or Risacher.

Thank you, come again.

Umm maybe you assumed I thought highly of Risacher and Sarr? Those guys are even worse prospects than Dillingham, tbh.

[Knoxxx]

Umm maybe you assumed I thought highly of Risacher and Sarr? Those guys are even worse prospects than Dillingham, tbh.

Aha, spicey I’ll bite!

Here is my top 10 for Spurs, not 10 best overall:

1 Sarr
2 Risacher
3 Castle
4 Sheppard
5 Dilly
6 Topic
7 Knecht
8 Cody
9 Buzelis
10 Holland

I would flip Knecht and Williams if we took Sheppard at 4.

I expect Dilly to fall, Castle + Dilly would be a nice combo. I don’t see Castle or Sheppard dropping to 8. Nor Sarr/Risacher to fall to 4.

what is your top 10?

[lrrr]

Of all the prospects, Dillinghams game fits best with Wemby. There's not even a close second. The speed and shooting ability will make that 2 man game amazing to watch. Wemby has said prospects have reached out to him, and if you were in his shoes who would you want the Spurs to draft? Some guy who can't shoot? No thanks.

Do you think it's possible Rob has faked an ankle injury and taken some diuretics to shed weight if the Spurs have given him some sort of a guarantee?

[John B]

He could drop to 8 then it’s a no brainer.

[The Truth #6]

From a roster standpoint, not sure Castle and Dillingham work at least for next year. Castle wants to play point. Tre is going to play. Dillingham doesn't play at all? Of course playing Castle at SF makes sense to me but not sure how serious Castle is with his statements. Then you'd also have the team completely moving on from Blake which is fine but amplifies the issue of crunch for playing time. Would be interesting to see unfold.

[kobyz]

The most logical pick for Houston at 3

[tbdog]

From a roster standpoint, not sure Castle and Dillingham work at least for next year. Castle wants to play point. Tre is going to play. Dillingham doesn't play at all? Of course playing Castle at SF makes sense to me but not sure how serious Castle is with his statements. Then you'd also have the team completely moving on from Blake which is fine but amplifies the issue of crunch for playing time. Would be interesting to see unfold.

They both kinda combo guards. Castle seems more nba ready. But the talk is, none of the prospects are nba ready.

[benefactor]

They both kinda combo guards. Castle seems more nba ready. But the talk is, none of the prospects are nba ready.
I think it's more about them not being starter material. Most of the top 8ish can get minutes pretty quickly, but that's about all that can be expected for the moment.

[024]

If Dillingham purposely tanked his value by heading to the combine underweight, it would be a true coup by his agent. But the more likely reason is he fucked up and didn't adequately anticipate the blowback, which does not bode well.

Seeing some ceiling comparisons to Garland but Garland has a larger wingspan and almost 30 lbs on him. Don't know Lou William's wingspan and he looked longer as well but his weight is closer to Dillingham's. So I would say Dillingham's ceiling is closer to Lou William's but even more limited in physical tools. And like Williams, Dillingham's offensive production needs to be high to be a net positive on the floor during the regular season. Playoffs will be a different beast and players like Williams get constantly exposed. Can see the Spurs giving him a shot at #8 but not terribly excited about his long term prospects on a playoff team.

[Darkwaters]

The most logical pick for Houston at 3

I find it hard to believe the analytics-happy Rockets pass on Sheppard if available.

[mystargtr34]

I find it hard to believe the analytics-happy Rockets pass on Sheppard if available.

Yeah I still think the most likely top 3 is Sarr, Risacher, Sheppard in that order. Risacher has an outside shot for the Hawks pick but then the Wiz would take Sarr anyway.

Not only does Sheppard tick the analytics box the Rockets love, they were bottom 10 in 3 point shooting last season so he ticks that box also. He would backup FVV for the next two seasons then theoretically take up the starting role from there.

3 point shooting is even more important for them when you consider Amen Thompson and Sengun are their two best prospects atm and neither can shoot 3’s so you need to surround them with shooting to avoid the multiple non-shooter spacing issues.

[The Truth #6]

For teams needing shooting, Dillingham is a solid shooter as well. Feels like that gets forgotten a bit.

[Darkwaters]

For teams needing shooting, Dillingham is a solid shooter as well. Feels like that gets forgotten a bit.

You think people forget that Dillingham can shoot?

That's like his entire selling point.

[Mr. Body]

You think people forget that Dillingham can shoot?

That's like his entire selling point.

It's a bit wild how undervalued Dillingham's shooting is. I guess Sheppard takes all the oxygen out of the room - and for good reason, his shooting was incredible. Dillingham's is way up there. Here are the three point shooting percentages of the best shooters in 2023 and 2024:

Jared McCain .414
Gradey Dick .403
Jordan Hawkins .388
Brandon Miller .384

Rob Dillingham .444

All of these are at high volume, around 6-8 threes per 36 minutes.

I understand the Spurs won't take him, but don't understand how another team wouldn't. Looking at you, Detroit. If De'Aaron Fox is perfectly fine at the same size and weight, Dillingham will be fine. Just get that player who can fill up the bucket and provide playmaking.

But, yes, somehow just how good RD is at shooting is ignored. And not just in one category. There's not a category of shooting - step-backs, catch-and-shoot, spot ups, off-the-dribble - where he wasn't elite shooting from deep. On spot-ups, when someone drove and kicked out to him, he hit an absurd 54.5%.

https://x.com/redcooteay/status/1789432149352825132?s=46

[Cabrito]

Fox and Dilly are not the same size. Fox is a couple of inches taller and weighs 20 more pounds. Dilly will put on some weight as his body fills out, but you also don’t want him too big as quickness is one of his biggest assets.

[CGD]

It's a bit wild how undervalued Dillingham's shooting is. I guess Sheppard takes all the oxygen out of the room - and for good reason, his shooting was incredible. Dillingham's is way up there. Here are the three point shooting percentages of the best shooters in 2023 and 2024:

Jared McCain .414
Gradey Dick .403
Jordan Hawkins .388
Brandon Miller .384

Rob Dillingham .444

All of these are at high volume, around 6-8 threes per 36 minutes.

I understand the Spurs won't take him, but don't understand how another team wouldn't. Looking at you, Detroit. If De'Aaron Fox is perfectly fine at the same size and weight, Dillingham will be fine. Just get that player who can fill up the bucket and provide playmaking.

But, yes, somehow just how good RD is at shooting is ignored. And not just in one category. There's not a category of shooting - step-backs, catch-and-shoot, spot ups, off-the-dribble - where he wasn't elite shooting from deep. On spot-ups, when someone drove and kicked out to him, he hit an absurd 54.5%.

https://x.com/redcooteay/status/1789432149352825132?s=46

Didnt appreciate Jared McCain's percentages. He's starting to get more buzz and wonder if he climbs into the Top 10. Seems like Dillingham has been most hurt by his inability to allay team concerns about his poor measurements bc he got hurt (really the thing weighing him down).

[Mr. Body]

Jared McCain and Reed Sheppard are the same height as him and a bit heavier. That extra weight is not going to do anything in the NBA. It might win you a possession here or there but probably not. They're all small.

[Mr. Body]

Didnt appreciate Jared McCain's percentages. He's starting to get more buzz and wonder if he climbs into the Top 10. Seems like Dillingham has been most hurt by his inability to allay team concerns about his poor measurements bc he got hurt (really the thing weighing him down).

I guess. Like I said before, Dillingham was listed all year at exactly what he measured at the combine. This is just a lot of casuals flooding in and freaking out for some reason when it was perfectly obvious he was small. Once the ball is tossed in the center of the court, no one gives a shit about combine measurements. Do you know how long Jayson Tatum's arms are? No, because no one gives a crap if they're slightly longer or slightly shorter than they are.

McCain might go up the board, but his problem is that he's only a shooter. He's more like Jordan Hawkins last year, a great shooter but doesn't handle the ball or set up other players much. Maybe teams think he can play more of a facilitating role, but that's not what he did at Duke.

[Pauleta14]

Fox and Dilly are not the same size. Fox is a couple of inches taller and weighs 20 more pounds. Dilly will put on some weight as his body fills out, but you also don’t want him too big as quickness is one of his biggest assets.

I agree. He has an Allen Iverson body type... who dominated a more physical era.

Does he has the same heart and drive tho? Because he's gonna be on the floor A LOT

He's so tough to choose bc he can be out of the league in 3y like becoming an allstar

[The Truth #6]

Dillingham might be the best shooter in this draft because in the NBA you can't just wait for open shots, you have to create shots, and RD seems great at step backs etc which is probably a better gauge of shooting for the next level. I think McCain is good at that as well. Those two could do better than Reed Sheppard (whom I want to call Resheed for some reason, but I digress).

[The Truth #6]

Also, how much of Reed's open shots were due to playing alongside Dillingham? It's just a thought I had.

[jeebus]

A taller, skinnier Isaiah Thomas. Perfect.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Spurs competition would pick with this dude and the Luka or Ant or SGA would abuse this little fellow

Luka and Ant abuse 95% of the league.

[ChumpDumper]

My current mood is Dilly/Knecht. Just get ALL the shooting.

Again, I'm not going to be too disappointed in any choice the Spurs make outside of maybe two nonshooters.

[R. DeMurre]

Also, how much of Reed's open shots were due to playing alongside Dillingham? It's just a thought I had.


This thread on X has some cool charts comparing the shooting breakdowns of Sheppard and Dillingham: https://x.com/redcooteay/status/1790771809559748778?s=46

[The Truth #6]

My current mood is Dilly/Knecht. Just get ALL the shooting.

Again, I'm not going to be too disappointed in any choice the Spurs make outside of maybe two nonshooters.

I like that too. I'm either Castle/Carter or Dilly/Knecht.

[Knoxxx]

Didnt appreciate Jared McCain's percentages. He's starting to get more buzz and wonder if he climbs into the Top 10. Seems like Dillingham has been most hurt by his inability to allay team concerns about his poor measurements bc he got hurt (really the thing weighing him down).

RD is small but super fast and dynamic. Also when you see his highlights he goes up and slams way easier than Wesley despite being shorter. He’s also a fine passer and another poster pointed out he believes RD was taking more difficult shots than Sheppard while still nailing 44% from 3.

In summary, I think this mitigates your measurement concerns.

[Knoxxx]

My current mood is Dilly/Knecht. Just get ALL the shooting.

Again, I'm not going to be too disappointed in any choice the Spurs make outside of maybe two nonshooters.

Agree, we have to get one shooter at 4 or 8, at least. Still leaves the door open to many options, including Castle at 4 or several longer wings at 8.

[024]

Fox and Dilly are not the same size. Fox is a couple of inches taller and weighs 20 more pounds. Dilly will put on some weight as his body fills out, but you also don’t want him too big as quickness is one of his biggest assets.

Fox also has a 6'6.5" wingspan vs Dillingham's 6'3" wingspan.

[BatManu20]

There's a decent chance Dilly won't be there at 8 tbh. Think a team like CHA might be interested in him as BPA, even if he doesn't really fit with them right now. LaMelo Ball is also injured all the time so they may see him as an insurance policy. Who knows. I'm still not ruling out Utah potentially moving up in this draft either.

[alfahdlan]

https://x.com/DynastyHoopsHQ/status/1796712336746831899/photo/1

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DynastyHoopsHQ/status/1796712336746831899/photo/1

https://x.com/DynastyHoopsHQ/status/1796712336746831899

[rascal]

Is Pritchard worth a top 8 pick? I'd say no.

[Mr. Body]

Dillingham as Pritchard is bizarre. They play nothing alike.

[CorrectCrusader]

Kyrie is not a good defender. Tony Parker was not a good defender. I think PG defense is overblown for Elite Offensive Creators.

Kyrie is actually a pretty good defender. If you'd watch this years playoffs you would know that

[Ariel]

Some guy typed random numbers on a spreadsheet and somehow that's objective and credible :lol

[SpursBills]

Is Pritchard worth a top 8 pick? I'd say no.

What's your order of preference for 8 assuming Castle goes at 4?

[Mr. Body]

It's the problem with comps. Who was recently comped to Obi Toppin? And then someone was freaking out, "But Obi Toppin is bad at [such and such]." The hope is you're capturing playing styles, where they get shots, deficiencies, whether they have handles, and all this stuff.

I'm going to say, "Rob Dillingham comps to Stephen Curry." He's going to lead the team to four championships.

[TrainOfThought5]

Kyrie is actually a pretty good defender. If you'd watch this years playoffs you would know that

Define good. Is he anywhere near Rajon Rondo, Marcus Smart levels? Jrue Holiday? All Defense team? No.

Kyrie isn’t doing anything that Dillingham can’t learn to do.

[LeBowen]

What's your order of preference for 8 assuming Castle goes at 4?

Not rascal, but for me it's about immediate contribution from at least one of two picks.
We can't really go into the season with two more prospects that aren't NBA ready when we have so many holes in our roster already.

If we get Castle, he'll surely be in the rotation and a positive contributor, so we can take a swing with #8.
But then again, drafting both Castle and another non-shooter can't work unless Spurs get at least two legit shooters in FA or via trades.

Imo, Castle+Topic can't work. We'd want Castle to be the secondary creator, but both creators being non-shooters wouldn't work.
Add Jeremy who can't play with either and the rotation just doesn't work.

If it's Castle at #4, then get either Dillingham or best wing available at #8.
If Castle isn't there, then best wing available at #4 and BPA at #8.
I wouldn't oppose getting a veteran big andd two wing rookies.

[rascal]

Can't see him wearing a Spur's jersey.

[rascal]

What's your order of preference for 8 assuming Castle goes at 4?

Sarr, Castle, Risacher, Buzelis in that order and all gone by 8. Not interested in any player going around 8. Don't want Topic, Clingan, Salaun, Williams, Holland, Dillingham, Sheppard.
Either trade 8 for a veteran or move it for a future first.

[AFBlue]

If he's there at 8, he needs to be the pick. Instant offense.

[baseline bum]

Can't see him wearing a Spur's jersey.

I'm skeptical too given their hard-on for point guards with size when they pick in the first (Hill, Joseph, Murray, White, Primo, Branham, Wesley). Hope that means they take Castle instead of Topic at 4 at least if so.

[LakerHater]

brian wright has a hard time with draftin/evaluating Gs

[Mr. Body]

In an ESPN podcast devoted mostly to Bronny (of course) they reported that Klutch is trying to hide Dillingham.

First, I keep forgetting that he's Klutch, which sucks.

Second, I don't know if I believe it. Klutch makes demands, they're not into subterfuge.

It also doesn't seem the wisest, for him. I mean, expecting the same thing's going on as with Stephon Castle. Even more than Castle, Dillingham's career could be made or shot depending on where he goes. Spurs? Legit big possibilities. His problems are covered to good amount. He can throw a boat-ton of lobs to Wembyanama.

Last, though, this all depends on some kind of coordination with the Spurs, which doesn't seem likely. Not to say SAS is the only preferred destination, but it's risky to wiggle your ass out in the Red District hoping for a certain gentleman when he may have other plans.

[Mr. Body]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsbouB4l1iQ

Another vid.

That play at :33 is fucking awesome.

That play at :40 is fucking atrocious.

It's the Trae Young brand disengaging and just watching plays that has got to be fixed. Holy shit man.

[DAF86]

A taller, skinnier Isaiah Thomas. Perfect.

Weird use of sarcasm given that coming up with a taller, skinnier Isiah Thomas would be a monumental win in this year's draft, tbh.

[DAF86]

My current mood is Dilly/Knecht. Just get ALL the shooting.

Again, I'm not going to be too disappointed in any choice the Spurs make outside of maybe two nonshooters.

I know many guys in here would hate that draft, but that likely gives you two instant contributors, probably even starters (Knecht would start right away over Champaigne. Dilly probably begins the season as a backup to Tre). If you are looking for the fastest impact possible, a combination of those guys (you can also switch Dilly for Sheppard) is the best bet, imho.

[exstatic]

Also, how much of Reed's open shots were due to playing alongside Dillingham? It's just a thought I had.

He’d get more open shots playing off a Wemby than he ever did off Dilly.

[Knoxxx]

I’m generally a fan of Dilly (in particular at the 8 not the 4), but what makes him better than the much cheaper to draft KJ Simpson?

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1800702823828701287

[Obstructed_View]

Weird use of sarcasm given that coming up with a taller, skinnier Isiah Thomas would be a monumental win in this year's draft, tbh.

Isaiah Thomas <> Isiah Thomas

[rankingtear]

Woo said this guy is dropping along with Holland.

[Mr. Body]

Vecenie's latest had him going out of the lottery. To me that's amazing.

The narrative around the draft nowadays is so dependent on measurements, which I guess is okay to a certain degree, but it's so selectively applied and only to serve certain things.

Reed Sheppard is widely considered top three, yet everyone acknowledges that he's going to have problems as a POA defender and will need to be covered. His size is not appreciably different than Dillingham. It really isn't.

Pundits and fans everywhere call out to get big packages together for Trae Young or Darius Garland... who are the same size as Rob Dillingham. They both went high lottery.

Dillingham shot 44.4% from deep in college. Young shot 36% from deep in college (and has never been a great shooter).

Garland shot better, but only played six games at the beginning of the year against cupcakes. Dillingham is quicker, has better handles, and is a better playmaker.

Yet Vecenie has him going to the Sixers in a mock.

To me there's a significant problem with how these narratives are forming and a lot of teams are going to make a mistake. Not saying the Spurs should take him, just saying the fickle, inane group narrative is problematic.

Barely months ago the narrative was that Kentucky guards were often taken way too late and they often blew up once they hit the league. Which... other than a few examples is true.

So... what happened? Why exactly did an entire draft industry decide to ignore everything it was saying (and is still saying and doing) while spontaneously deciding to selectively apply a new, incomplete narrative?

[Mr. Body]

If it comes down to weight, then fine.

But then why are measurements being ignored in many other cases?

A full 22% of the league is 6'3" or shorter. No, the league is not trending bigger. Yes, small guards have gone deep in the playoffs or have won championships. Yes, if I'm not mistaken, shooting is still a key skill in the NBA and here's the second best shooter in the draft, who is the same size as the best shooter in the draft.

And he has a key skill to become a better defender, which is quickness.

He's the same size as other Kentucky guards who are doing very well like Fox and Maxey.

So, why has this delusion descended over things?

[CGD]

If it comes down to weight, then fine.

But then why are measurements being ignored in many other cases?

A full 22% of the league is 6'3" or shorter. No, the league is not trending bigger. Yes, small guards have gone deep in the playoffs or have won championships. Yes, if I'm not mistaken, shooting is still a key skill in the NBA and here's the second best shooter in the draft, who is the same size as the best shooter in the draft.

And he has a key skill to become a better defender, which is quickness.

He's the same size as other Kentucky guards who are doing very well like Fox and Maxey.

So, why has this delusion descended over things?

Isn’t the big issue that he hasn’t been able to work out during this process bc he’s hurt? Basically, he hasnt been able to mollify team concerns about size while showing his other skillsets etc.

That seems like a legit thing to me. Same reason fans here are saying “well NO WAY spurs take Topic at 8 now” bc of the knee.

[rankingtear]

If it comes down to weight, then fine.

But then why are measurements being ignored in many other cases?

A full 22% of the league is 6'3" or shorter. No, the league is not trending bigger. Yes, small guards have gone deep in the playoffs or have won championships. Yes, if I'm not mistaken, shooting is still a key skill in the NBA and here's the second best shooter in the draft, who is the same size as the best shooter in the draft.

And he has a key skill to become a better defender, which is quickness.

He's the same size as other Kentucky guards who are doing very well like Fox and Maxey.

So, why has this delusion descended over things?

The PG spot is trending bigger there was a study that this is the tallest and heaviest the PG position has been in 70 years. The league height is trending toward the middle with like sized players. Shooting can be found on any position now. Big men smaller, guards bigger.

[PhantomDashCam]

Isn’t the big issue that he hasn’t been able to work out during this process bc he’s hurt? Basically, he hasnt been able to mollify team concerns about size while showing his other skillsets etc.

That seems like a legit thing to me. Same reason fans here are saying “well NO WAY spurs take Topic at 8 now” bc of the knee.

I think you’re on the money here.
Klutch will make sure he has a chance to shine though when he’s fully healthy, the issue is going to be which teams will he work out for.
He probably won’t be able to do as many as he would like and he may have to perform for teams outside the top ten as a result.

[CGD]

It could also be a simple as Klutch’s meddling and hiding him. Apparently they did this with Lively last year to get him to DAL. Might they be doing something similar with Dillingham? And if so to what team?

[Uriel]

Woo said this guy is dropping along with Holland.
That’s what pundits were saying about Devin Vassell too. Look how that turned out :p:

[Knoxxx]

Castle + Dilly would be a nice draft.

[LeBowen]

It could also be a simple as Klutch’s meddling and hiding him. Apparently they did this with Lively last year to get him to DAL. Might they be doing something similar with Dillingham? And if so to what team?

Tbh, Spurs would be the only good lottery situation for him.
Teams that don't have a point guard are about to enter a longer rebuild and he'd be relegated to the bench for teams that do.

Maybe they hope Spurs take him at #8.

[wildbill2u]

Like size, speed and quickness can't be taught. However, I think speed and quickness can be tremendous assets if you are going to teach a player defense. Attitude toward playing defense is the key. Most shooters have spent their entire career being lauded for their shooting ability and being given a pass on defense. They grow up thinking defense is just a waiting period until they get the ball back to do something on offense.

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs shouldn't take this guy. If we're going to go after a tiny guard, I'd prefer its one we know is a star and not take a flier on a high draft pick who may or may not pan out but will never have size. If we're going to roll the dice - and it seems like any pick is a roll of the dice - we should bet on size and athleticism.

[TD 21]

The PG spot is trending bigger there was a study that this is the tallest and heaviest the PG position has been in 70 years. The league height is trending toward the middle with like sized players. Shooting can be found on any position now. Big men smaller, guards bigger.

Not here, it can't . . . it's only the most important skill in the game.

Team we're not going to skip steps is once again on the verge of doing it by trying to find someone who can theoretically play deep in the playoffs as opposed to not trying to force that and just finding someone who can help them climb the latter and maybe eventually become part of a package for the actualized version of the former.

[objective]

Vecenie's latest had him going out of the lottery. To me that's amazing.

The narrative around the draft nowadays is so dependent on measurements, which I guess is okay to a certain degree, but it's so selectively applied and only to serve certain things.

Reed Sheppard is widely considered top three, yet everyone acknowledges that he's going to have problems as a POA defender and will need to be covered. His size is not appreciably different than Dillingham. It really isn't.

Pundits and fans everywhere call out to get big packages together for Trae Young or Darius Garland... who are the same size as Rob Dillingham. They both went high lottery.

Dillingham shot 44.4% from deep in college. Young shot 36% from deep in college (and has never been a great shooter).

Garland shot better, but only played six games at the beginning of the year against cupcakes. Dillingham is quicker, has better handles, and is a better playmaker.

Yet Vecenie has him going to the Sixers in a mock.

To me there's a significant problem with how these narratives are forming and a lot of teams are going to make a mistake. Not saying the Spurs should take him, just saying the fickle, inane group narrative is problematic.

Barely months ago the narrative was that Kentucky guards were often taken way too late and they often blew up once they hit the league. Which... other than a few examples is true.

So... what happened? Why exactly did an entire draft industry decide to ignore everything it was saying (and is still saying and doing) while spontaneously deciding to selectively apply a new, incomplete narrative?

I think one of the key differences with Trae Young and Dillingham that could explain what you're noticing is that, from a stat I heard on a podcast about Dillingham (I think it was the Locked On Fantasy NBA show) ... Dillingham was assisted on over 70+% of his 3s. Trae Young I'm guessing created much more of his own shot. Young was the man, Dillingham wasn't.

[Mr. Body]

I think one of the key differences with Trae Young and Dillingham that could explain what you're noticing is that, from a stat I heard on a podcast about Dillingham (I think it was the Locked On Fantasy NBA show) ... Dillingham was assisted on over 70+% of his 3s. Trae Young I'm guessing created much more of his own shot. Young was the man, Dillingham wasn't.

I've seen that, too. In fact, argued with some guy on reddit kind of pointlessly.

The reason why Trae doesn't get assisted on his shots is because he's ball-dominant and jacks up really, really bad shots that are completely against the flow of any intelligent offense whatsoever.

Frankly I don't see any reason why a player getting assisted on shots is a bad thing. What are Sheppard's numbers? I'll bet they're pretty high. Did you know Dillingham hit 52% on his spot-up threes?

Did anybody actually watch him? Kentucky moved the ball around very well around the perimeter. The point was getting assists on their three point shooting. It was one of the things that Calipari actually did well.

So... we're gonna just make up new rules about what we want as a draft industry?

At this point, again, I think people are just making up reasons to not like Dillingham when in every other category and every other time-span they've loved players like him. But for some reason they throw out any consistency whatsoever. No one knows what they're talking about and are just repeating what each other is saying.

[Mr. Body]

What's kind of impressive to me - and adding to the sense that no one actually watches these players or even bothers listening to themselves -- is that Dillingham had the reputation of being a Trae Young, just jack em up, type player at OTE. Lots of questions whether he could fit into a college system. And then, when he did, he's getting dinged for not being a Trae Young, just jack em up, type player.

It's full on absurd.

[LeBowen]

What's kind of impressive to me - and adding to the sense that no one actually watches these players or eve bothers listening to themselves -- is that Dillingham had the reputation of being a Trae Young, just jack em up, type player at OTE. Lots of questions whether he could fit into a college system. And then, when he did, he's getting dinged for it for not being a Trae Young, just jack em up, type player.

It's full on absurd.

I'd say that 90-95% of takes on college prospects are from people who haven't actually seen enough of those players.
Then they get biased off a few highlights videos and try to push for the player they like.

To me, Dillingham has two concerns.
Can his defense become passable?
Can he get into the paint, have solid FG% at the rim and draw fouls?

If answer to both those is yes, his floor is great 6th man, with star scorer ceiling.

[rankingtear]

Not here, it can't . . . it's only the most important skill in the game.

Team we're not going to skip steps is once again on the verge of doing it by trying to find someone who can theoretically play deep in the playoffs as opposed to not trying to force that and just finding someone who can help them climb the latter and maybe eventually become part of a package for the actualized version of the former.

I am all for shooting with Wemby. But these are prospects at the end of the day. Can he stay on the floor to provide that shooting is the question. If he did, would he have the trade value down the line. Is it more than 90 percentile offensive players rotting on rebuilding teams benches. Did you just develop an albatross contract.

[Ariel]

Dillingham falling doesn't sound crazy to me, it's been proven time and again small guards scare teams and, no matter how talented they, are they always get passed on even when they shouldn't, which is why I always had him at 8 rather than 4. But if he gets pushed back ever further, this may be a good opportunity to trade back and pick him a few spots later. There's too much talent in this kid to ignore it.

[duncan2150]

I think with Dillingham the main problem is the D. He was bad and can he improves a lot ? Offensively he is good tough not on Trae Young at Oklahoma level. Young can create more imo.

[onechance87]

I think with Dillingham the main problem is the D. He was bad and can he improves a lot ? Offensively he is good tough not on Trae Young at Oklahoma level. Young can create more imo.

He will always be bad at d just with his size alone.That fact that he doesnt care to try to plaY d will hurt him as well.Your taking a gamble that he will
be great with scoring and playmaking and help him elevate wemby.Taking him with castle would be smart imo as well.

[Degoat]

I’m still really high on Dilly, kid came off the bench averaging like 23 mins a game and still put up 15ppg, 4ast, on 44% from 3 as a freshman.

Him or carter gotta be the pick at #8 Imo.

[SpursDynasty85]

I’m still really high on Dilly, kid came off the bench averaging like 23 mins a game and still put up 15ppg, 4ast, on 44% from 3 as a freshman.

Him or carter gotta be the pick at #8 Imo.

Would take Carter over Dillingham because of defensive issues. Same reason I would not want Trae Young on our team (especially for that kind of money).

[CGD]

It’s not that his injury/lack of workouts is hurting him, it’s that other PGs are coming in strong. Carter and Bub have been getting a lot of buzz, even as they are different players than Dillongham.

[scott]

Wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes with Dillingham as well. The size issues are real, but it's not like they just snuck up on us... they've been known. I do think other PGs coming on late has an impact, as does his injury and inability to work out for teams, but I'm curious if maybe there is some other issue that isn't being reported.

[Mr. Body]

Wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes with Dillingham as well. The size issues are real, but it's not like they just snuck up on us... they've been known. I do think other PGs coming on late has an impact, as does his injury and inability to work out for teams, but I'm curious if maybe there is some other issue that isn't being reported.

This can definitely be the case.

As for others, definitely can see. McCain is the same height but bulkier. Still think he goes a bit later. Carrington has big advocates but I have trouble seeing what they're seeing, at least as a late lottery pick. Carter definitely seems like a junkyard dog type that Memphis would be into, among other teams.

[TD 21]

I am all for shooting with Wemby. But these are prospects at the end of the day. Can he stay on the floor to provide that shooting is the question. If he did, would he have the trade value down the line. Is it more than 90 percentile offensive players rotting on rebuilding teams benches. Did you just develop an albatross contract.

I wasn't necessarily advocating for Dillingham, but again, why is team we're not going to skip steps worried about the finish line when they've yet to get out of the starting blocks?

[DAF86]

This can definitely be the case.

As for others, definitely can see. McCain is the same height but bulkier. Still think he goes a bit later. Carrington has big advocates but I have trouble seeing what they're seeing, at least as a late lottery pick. Carter definitely seems like a junkyard dog type that Memphis would be into, among other teams.

Weird to say coming from a Dilly advocate. I have cooled down a bit on Dilly but I still like him and what I see in Bub is the same I see in Dilly (great self creation skills, granted on lesser efficiency) but on a 6'5" body.

[SpursDynasty85]

Wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes with Dillingham as well. The size issues are real, but it's not like they just snuck up on us... they've been known. I do think other PGs coming on late has an impact, as does his injury and inability to work out for teams, but I'm curious if maybe there is some other issue that isn't being reported.

I think the main concern was that he came in 7 lbs under his listed weight knowing everyone was going to be keyed on this number. Concern is that he will have trouble adding muscle and may not hold up in the pros.

[rascal]

The Spurs aren't drafting Dillingham, a small player with defensive shortcomings.

[CGD]

Weird to say coming from a Dilly advocate. I have cooled down a bit on Dilly but I still like him and what I see in Bub is the same I see in Dilly (great self creation skills, granted on lesser efficiency) but on a 6'5" body.

I totally agree with this. And it’s not like Bub played at Weber State or some other small school where there are questions about level of competition. He played in the ACC.

Dillingham could end up being the better player, but is he THAT much better where he should clearly be a top 8 pick and Bub (or McCain for that matter) clearly 10 pick worse?

[jesterbobman]

I mean, I don't love Dillingham, but he's probably the best advantage creator in the draft, and that's an incredibly valuable skill to bet on.

I can get not going for a Sheppard / Dillingham combo, as you want some positional size as a backcourt combo and it could be hard to get development minutes for both of them, but I'd be fine with him at 8 with anyone else as a pairing.

[drpill]

https://youtu.be/eKUXMK4GnPw?

Some harsh truths here about Rob's bad habits on both ends of the floor. I could see some of this driving Spurs fans (not to mention teammates and coaches) nuts at times unless he learns to play with more patience and his decision making improves a lot. No guarantee that he will ever fix these low IQ lapses, but they do seem of the fixable sort. He made strides last year, so it still feels like a worthwhile high upside bet to me. Some of the tape used in this review is from his OTE days and doesn't entirely reflect where he's at as a player right now, but there are still some worrying tendencies.

I can understand if the FO wants to go in a different direction, clearly all of this year's prospects have flaws so it's a matter of choosing the flaws you can live with and try to work on. Unfortunately you can never dream of teaching Dilly to be larger so other prospects might offer more reason for optimism.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/eKUXMK4GnPw?

Some harsh truths here about Rob's bad habits on both ends of the floor. I could see some of this driving Spurs fans (not to mention teammates and coaches) nuts at times unless he learns to play with more patience and his decision making improves a lot. No guarantee that he will ever fix these low IQ lapses, but they do seem of the fixable sort. He made strides last year, so it still feels like a worthwhile high upside bet to me. Some of the tape used in this review is from his OTE days and doesn't entirely reflect where he's at as a player right now, but there are still some worrying tendencies.

I can understand if the FO wants to go in a different direction, clearly all of this year's prospects have flaws so it's a matter of choosing the flaws you can live with and try to work on. Unfortunately you can never dream of teaching Dilly to be larger so other prospects might offer more reason for optimism.

One of my underlying things for Dillingham is his basketball history. He went to play for Kanye West's Donda Academy and then played for OverTime Elite (against the Thompson brothers, etc.). That's... not a great two environments for coaching. For OTE he essentially was a crowd-pleaser showing off his handles and jacking shots, like a circus performer.

What gives me optimism is that he came into Kentucky with that reputation and wound up fitting in very well into their offense. He was mostly perfect offensively, other than some freelancing and heat checks. Was practically their offensive engine to a good deal (+30% assist rate). He has a lot of seasoning to do, like knowing when to wait for screens and so on, but for his wild west background, he came a huge way.

On the other side, defense, he did things that I thought were amazing. I'd never seen such horrible judgment on rotations and positioning. Yet, he also did get better! Still awful, but he wasn't making the humongous, skin-crawling mistakes (like leaving a guy in the dunker spot to go back to his man). He seems mostly engaged on defense and seems to try.

Now, I do question the wisdom of going to Kanye West academy and OTE. The fact that he's a Klutch guy puts questions in my head. The fact that he's a bit of an influencer type. (He seems to like fashion.)

But I have reasons to think he can improve on defense. In large part, because his coaching seems to have been completely absent. Another part is that he seems to buy-in instead of just having no interest, like an Isaiah Collier type. The last part, he's very quick, can stay with guys, and doesn't get screened easily.

So... I shrug off a good bit of whether he can get better with seasoning and coaching. I've already seen it. Whether he's going to do it, that's another matter that interviews and background can tell a team.

[drpill]

I agree, he has shown strong signs that he can develop within a team setting and his off-ball play is one of the more intriguing aspects of his game right now. And there is evidence that he could develop into a pesky defender if he dedicates himself. Honestly he remains my favourite swing and in my mind the best potential fit offensively that this draft has to offer. That said, as much as than anything, I'm wary of adding another knucklehead with tunnel vision to this roster, so you have to be sold on the developmental curve and overall BB IQ.

[spurraider21]

One of my underlying things for Dillingham is his basketball history. He went to play for Kanye West's Donda Academy and then played for OverTime Elite (against the Thompson brothers, etc.). That's... not a great two environments for coaching. For OTE he essentially was a crowd-pleaser showing off his handles and jacking shots, like a circus performer.

What gives me optimism is that he came into Kentucky with that reputation and wound up fitting in very well into their offense. He was mostly perfect offensively, other than some freelancing and heat checks. Was practically their offensive engine to a good deal (+30% assist rate). He has a lot of seasoning to do, like knowing when to wait for screens and so on, but for his wild west background, he came a huge way.

On the other side, defense, he did things that I thought were amazing. I'd never seen such horrible judgment on rotations and positioning. Yet, he also did get better! Still awful, but he wasn't making the humongous, skin-crawling mistakes (like leaving a guy in the dunker spot to go back to his man). He seems mostly engaged on defense and seems to try.

Now, I do question the wisdom of going to Kanye West academy and OTE. The fact that he's a Klutch guy puts questions in my head. The fact that he's a bit of an influencer type. (He seems to like fashion.)

But I have reasons to think he can improve on defense. In large part, because his coaching seems to have been completely absent. Another part is that he seems to buy-in instead of just having no interest, like an Isaiah Collier type. The last part, he's very quick, can stay with guys, and doesn't get screened easily.

So... I shrug off a good bit of whether he can get better with seasoning and coaching. I've already seen it. Whether he's going to do it, that's another matter that interviews and background can tell a team.
what is actually wrong with Klutch?

[BatManu20]

1800165296164196472

[Eaglenole2002]

Would take Carter over Dillingham because of defensive issues. Same reason I would not want Trae Young on our team (especially for that kind of money).
For conversation sake, Dillingham maxes out as Malik Monk and Carter maxes out as George Hill. Who do you want?

[Eaglenole2002]

I agree, he has shown strong signs that he can develop within a team setting and his off-ball play is one of the more intriguing aspects of his game right now. And there is evidence that he could develop into a pesky defender if he dedicates himself. Honestly he remains my favourite swing and in my mind the best potential fit offensively that this draft has to offer. That said, as much as than anything, I'm wary of adding another knucklehead with tunnel vision to this roster, so you have to be sold on the developmental curve and overall BB IQ.
The last sentence is key. He won’t ever be big enough to be a plus defender, but he does show effort (at times). Will he understand more complex defensive schemes since he admitted ye didn’t always understand the game plan. Is that laziness or lack of intelligence?

[Uriel]

League sources believe the San Antonio Spurs aren't likely based on what they're signaling to agents. We're hearing teams prefer bigger positional prospects.
Although it’s tempting to classify this as smokescreen, this might actually be real. It’s not like the Spurs are going around telling agents they don’t like Dillingham, which is extremely unlikely. More likely, they’re telling agents they value positional size, which would rule out Dillingham.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10124239-2024-nba-mock-draft-top-5-shakeup-plus-full-2-round-predictions-with-2-weeks-to-go

[Mr. Body]

I mean, what agents? Are the Spurs telling other agents that they don't want Dillingham? Are they telling agents that they want positional size? Hold the presses, a team wants taller players rather than smaller ones. That's crazy! Put it on the front page.

Dillingham is only now starting workouts. Did the Spurs call all the other agents and say, Just so you know, we're not letting Dillingham come. No reason we're telling you this, just thought you should know.

[baseline bum]

Wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes with Dillingham as well. The size issues are real, but it's not like they just snuck up on us... they've been known. I do think other PGs coming on late has an impact, as does his injury and inability to work out for teams, but I'm curious if maybe there is some other issue that isn't being reported.

Him coming in at only 164 kind of snuck up on us when he was listed 176 all year. 176 as a baseline would have been enough that a couple of years in the weight room could have gotten him to a reasonable starting PG size (6'2" 185-190 lbs). Hard to see him hitting that starting from a base of 164 though unless he goes Beno with the breakfast tacos. Really got me valuing Castle and Sheppard over him as much as I really liked Dillingham when I thought he was 176.

[scott]

Him coming in at only 164 kind of snuck up on us when he was listed 176 all year. 176 as a baseline would have been enough that a couple of years in the weight room could have gotten him to a reasonable starting PG size (6'2" 185 lbs). Hard to see him hitting that starting from a base of 164 though unless he goes Beno with the breakfast tacos. Really got me valuing Castle and Sheppard over him as much as I really liked Dillingham when I thought he was 176.

Part of me feels like teams should have been able to look at him and know he wasn't 176. And whether the scale says 176 or 164 or any number in between... it was obvious just looking at him that he was little and his size was going to be an issue. I guess the 164 just didn't really catch me off guard at all.

[LeBowen]

Part of me feels like teams should have been able to look at him and know he wasn't 176. And whether the scale says 176 or 164 or any number in between... it was obvious just looking at him that he was little and his size was going to be an issue. I guess the 164 just didn't really catch me off guard at all.

I just hate when people change their opinion of a player just because of 12lbs, it's ridiculous.
As you said, we all saw his actual size and playstyle.

I'd argue that it's better that he was at 164 than 176 because he'll have an easier time putting on extra weight without losing speed. Being that weak with 12lbs extra would've been even more concerning.
While size obviously severely limits his defensive potential, we've seen last night that size doesn't matter if you don't put any effort in.

He'll most likely always be a negative defender, but his skillset and upside is the highest in his draft.
Imo, if Spurs don't pick Sheppard at #4 and Dillingham is available at #8, it's an easy choice. Can't miss out on such three level scoring potential when you already have a rookie guaranteed to contribute (Risacher/Castle in this scenario).

[baseline bum]

Part of me feels like teams should have been able to look at him and know he wasn't 176. And whether the scale says 176 or 164 or any number in between... it was obvious just looking at him that he was little and his size was going to be an issue. I guess the 164 just didn't really catch me off guard at all.

176 is pretty light too and I just thought oh he looks like 2001 draft day Tony Parker levels of smallish when I'd watch Kentucky games.

[baseline bum]

I just hate when people change their opinion of a player just because of 12lbs, it's ridiculous.
As you said, we all saw his actual size and playstyle.

I'd argue that it's better that he was at 164 than 176 because he'll have an easier time putting on extra weight without losing speed. Being that weak with 12lbs extra would've been even more concerning.
While size obviously severely limits his defensive potential, we've seen last night that size doesn't matter if you don't put any effort in.

He'll most likely always be a negative defender, but his skillset and upside is the highest in his draft.
Imo, if Spurs don't pick Sheppard at #4 and Dillingham is available at #8, it's an easy choice. Can't miss out on such three level scoring potential when you already have a rookie guaranteed to contribute (Risacher/Castle in this scenario).

Why is it ridiculous? At 164 he's probably too small to reach 185-190 like Parker did without some major negative consequences. At 176 as a baseline it probably wouldn't have been a problem.

[scott]

San Antonio can get Rob Dillingham to 190, no problem. We've all seen those "skinny fat guys" with slight frames but a beer/taco belly :lol

[baseline bum]

San Antonio can get Rob Dillingham to 190, no problem. We've all seen those "skinny fat guys" with slight frames but a beer/taco belly :lol

Already said I don't think the Beno breakfast taco route is a good path for Dilly :lol

[spurraider21]

San Antonio can get Rob Dillingham to 190, no problem. We've all seen those "skinny fat guys" with slight frames but a beer/taco belly :lol
dilly's quickness is part of his allure. he's not in the fat pg archetype. thats something sheppard can gravitate toward, go for a FVV/Lowry build

[Mr. Body]

I just hate when people change their opinion of a player just because of 12lbs, it's ridiculous.
As you said, we all saw his actual size and playstyle.

I'd argue that it's better that he was at 164 than 176 because he'll have an easier time putting on extra weight without losing speed. Being that weak with 12lbs extra would've been even more concerning.
While size obviously severely limits his defensive potential, we've seen last night that size doesn't matter if you don't put any effort in.

He'll most likely always be a negative defender, but his skillset and upside is the highest in his draft.
Imo, if Spurs don't pick Sheppard at #4 and Dillingham is available at #8, it's an easy choice. Can't miss out on such three level scoring potential when you already have a rookie guaranteed to contribute (Risacher/Castle in this scenario).


Some people just have a fetish for measurements. Matas Buzelis barely weighs more than Dillingham compared to his height yet he's considered a potentially good defender.

I don't even understand what an extra twenty or forty pounds is supposed to do. Yeah, like, if Dillingham was slighter then I'd be concerned, but Sheppard, Jared McCain, Carter and Collier are all short yet they only use it against one of them. Any extra weight for any of them isn't going to matter.

What exactly is that extra weight going to do? How exactly is it going to improve any of their defense?

Some. Sure. Is it going to impact things so much that you're going to say, Gee, sure glad Reed Sheppard had that extra twent five pounds, it sure stopped Amen Thompson from dunking on his head.

No.

Again, more that a fifth of the league is 6'3" or smaller. Do you think a single one of those is guarding Embiid in the post?

So what's the effect here?

If anything, a heavier Dillingham, like if Dillingham was 200 lbs, then he probably loses his quickness and his major advantage is gone.

[SpursDynasty85]

For conversation sake, Dillingham maxes out as Malik Monk and Carter maxes out as George Hill. Who do you want?

Malik Monk is definitely better than George Hill. So you’re asking me if Dillingham turns out better than Carter who would I pick? Obviously Dillingham although we may need to look at Fit. George Hill would be a slightly better fit for this team since he would start over Tre Jones while Monk would come off the bench because of Vassell.

Malik Monk is a better athlete and also weighs 200 lbs. The closest comp is Darius Garlandfor Dillingham’s potential. I’m not sure of a Devin Carter comp maybe a bigger Bobby Jackson? If that is the case I’m taking the possible lockdown defender in Carter with some 3 point shooting upside.

[LeBowen]

Why is it ridiculous? At 164 he's probably too small to reach 185-190 like Parker did without some major negative consequences. At 176 as a baseline it probably wouldn't have been a problem.

Because he played more than enough games to evaluate him properly.
He's the same player regardless of if he weighed in at 150 or 200.
He's still an electric offensive weapon and tragic defensively.

Improving his understanding of the game and instincts on defensive end is way more important than 10lbs difference.
You really think him playing at 190 instead of 180 at his peak will be the difference maker?
It's 10lbs, ffs.

[baseline bum]

Because he played more than enough games to evaluate him properly.
He's the same player regardless of if he weighed in at 150 or 200.
He's still an electric offensive weapon and tragic defensively.

Improving his understanding of the game and instincts on defensive end is way more important than 10lbs difference.
You really think him playing at 190 instead of 180 at his peak will be the difference maker?
It's 10lbs, ffs.

Can't coach size and that 10 lbs makes him smaller than almost everyone but guys like Ja Morant and Trae Young who are way more talented (and in Morant's case way more athletic too) to make up for that deficiency. If they somehow get Risacher at 4 or really want Buzelis at 4 then I'm good with taking Dilly 8 but not on board at 4 anymore. And not 8 if they have already picked Castle or Sheppard to play PG behind Tre since gotta play the guy you draft.

[Chinook]

People are dramatically overstating the Spurs' penchant for targeting big PGs. George Hill and Cory Joseph were drafted when the NBA listed height in shoes as a default. Hill measured at 6-1.25 and Joseph at 6-2 flat. Jones didn't do the combine, but he's 6-1. Patty Mills was 5-11.25, Ray McCallum was 6-0.25. Marcus Denmon was a giant at 6-2.25. Bryn Forbes wasn't invited to the combine, but he is likely just under 6-2. TJ Ford was 5-11

I don't think anyone denies the Spurs see the value in larger play-makers. They had one of the GOATs to fit that mold. Moreover, Pop has definitely pushed for positionless basketball for years now, far longer than many STers may realize. But no, the Spurs have always been willing to accommodate shorter guards. White and Murray are both good players. That's why the Spurs drafted them. If the tall-PG fixation were as strong as the argument goes, we would've seen them bring in a lot more prospects in that size range, both successful and busts. In reality, it seems like they go for who they think will be good, and while size may factor into their preferences, it's not the determining factor. If they think Dillingham is the most talented player on the board, they will bring him in. I don't think people should read too much into what the media says about the Spurs' interests, because we know they try to hide that as much as possible, even with second-rounders like Metu.

Also, Fox is 6-2. At some point, people are going to have to realize that heights for players drafted before 2020 are still casually given in shoes and to stop comparing past and current players without doing that conversion. Ten years ago, Dillingham would've been listed as 6-2, just like Hill was listed at 6-3 despite only being a quarter-inch taller.

[Pauleta14]

His quick feet are such a weapon, he can create separation against anybody

Him or Reed at 8

[KingKev]

I really haven't done much due diligence on any of the prospective lottery picks but from the little I’ve seen of Dilli impresses me as a pure scorer. AI came in the league and played at similar measurements. Definitely some similarities in their games.

[JPB]

His quick feet are such a weapon, he can create separation against anybody

Him or Reed at 8

what's hurting Dilly is not as much him not being able to work out than others actually doing so and intiriguing/seducing GMs and their brothers.

As far as defense is concerned, I do'nt really believe in the "mental" part of it you'd just have to make a player buy into for players like Dillingham. Players entering the NBA as terrible in defense very rarely ends up even as half decent. First because there's a knack and instictive part in defending that they just don't have, and they may try to give effort on it for a little while but never long or hard enough so you can actually rely on it. They just iinstinctively don't give a fuck, that's not really part of BB for them.

[LeBowen]

Can't coach size

We're talking about 10lbs here, not 50. Or something like 3 inches longer wingspan that's noticable.


guys like Ja Morant and Trae Young who are way more talented (and in Morant's case way more athletic too) to make up for that deficiency.

If Dillingham had similar college stats to either of those two, he'd be a lock for #1 pick. Maybe #2.
They were obviously higher rated prospects, but it's not like he's got nothing to offer compared to their skillset.

Both are obviously superior playmakers/passers, but it's not like Dillingham isn't good, especially considering his lower usage.
Trae has great range, but his 3pt percentages aren't that great. Some of it is due to his shot selection, but still.
Ja's inability to shoot well from 3pt severly limits his ceiling as the first option.
Dillingham's jumpshot is picture perfect, he's shooting from everywhere and every situation.
As in unlike Trae who barely moves off the ball, Dillingham can also fill that role and run around screens. Due to his speed, he'll be impossible to catch.
I wouldn't rule out him becoming one of the best shooters in the game and developing into a great playmaker.

Don't forget that Ja stayed in college an extra year. His first year stats are worse than Dillingham's.
I'm sure Dillingham would average like 22-24ppg and 5-7 assists if he stayed at Kentucky for one more year.


If they somehow get Risacher at 4 or really want Buzelis at 4 then I'm good with taking Dilly 8 but not on board at 4 anymore. And not 8 if they have already picked Castle or Sheppard to play PG behind Tre since gotta play the guy you draft.

Agreed except for the Castle bit.
Castle could become a point guard, but he definitely won't be one early on. I think him and Dillingham would be a great duo off the bench.
Everyone keeps thinking about starting lineup fit, but our bench unit is disgustingly bad and the biggest reason for most losses.

I don't think Dillingham gets picked in top10 if we don't take him.

[Mr. Body]

I simply don't understand people tripping over themselves wanting to acquire Darius Garland or Malik Monk when Dillingham was arguably or very clearly better than them in college and they all have the same size problem.

They'd do anything to get those players but using a single pick in a supposedly weak draft is the worst thing ever.

Make it make sense.

[Mr. Body]

Here is Dillingham vs. Garland vs. Monk in college.

Just acknowledging these don't tell the whole story. Dillingham is more like Garland in that he's a playmaker. Monk is more of a straight up shooting guard.

Garland only played six games in college against Winthrop, Liberty, Alcorn State, USC, and Kent State. It's too small a sample size, but note that Dillingham is more or less equivalent through an entire season against better competition. And his three point shooting was better than Monk, a guy many want to get for his three point shooting.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=rob-dillingham--darius-garland--malik-monk

[itzsoweezee]

I simply don't understand people tripping over themselves wanting to acquire Darius Garland or Malik Monk when Dillingham was arguably or very clearly better than them in college and they all have the same size problem.

They'd do anything to get those players but using a single pick in a supposedly weak draft is the worst thing ever.

Make it make sense.

Very simple. Dillingham is years away from being a productive NBA player. The spurs can’t afford any more guard projects that may or may not pan out, when there are plenty available throughout the league.

[LeBowen]

Very simple. Dillingham is years away from being a productive NBA player.

Why is he any further away than other guard prospects in this draft?
The only player who looks like he'd be a solid contributor in a bigger role right away is Carter.

While Dillingham is an awful defender, Sheppard would also be a negative and he surely won't be a point guard right away. Tre would eventually end up as a starter.
And if you look at their games, Sheppard's shot selection is that of a role player, while Dillingham took a lot of first option shots.
We don't know if Castle will ever actually be able to develop into a point guard.
Topic has torn ACL.

I'd argue that Dillingham is less of a prospect than anyone else.
He's got the offensive skillset, full package. It's just about developing physically and translating it.
Others would have to both develop skills they don't have and develop physically, except Castle. But he's so far away from being a point guard, he's definitely also a project.

PATFO keeps gambling with these supposed all-round players who just need to develop their shot and it keeps failing.
It's time to gamble with someone who can actually shoot.

Dillingham/Sheppard are either/or scenario. It's either Sheppard at #4 or Dillingham at #8. Won't get both.

[baseline bum]

I simply don't understand people tripping over themselves wanting to acquire Darius Garland or Malik Monk when Dillingham was arguably or very clearly better than them in college and they all have the same size problem.

They'd do anything to get those players but using a single pick in a supposedly weak draft is the worst thing ever.

Make it make sense.

All Monk costs is money they have to spend anyways. Definitely agree on not selling the farm for Garland though.

[baseline bum]

We're talking about 10lbs here, not 50. Or something like 3 inches longer wingspan that's noticable.



If Dillingham had similar college stats to either of those two, he'd be a lock for #1 pick. Maybe #2.
They were obviously higher rated prospects, but it's not like he's got nothing to offer compared to their skillset.

Both are obviously superior playmakers/passers, but it's not like Dillingham isn't good, especially considering his lower usage.
Trae has great range, but his 3pt percentages aren't that great. Some of it is due to his shot selection, but still.
Ja's inability to shoot well from 3pt severly limits his ceiling as the first option.
Dillingham's jumpshot is picture perfect, he's shooting from everywhere and every situation.
As in unlike Trae who barely moves off the ball, Dillingham can also fill that role and run around screens. Due to his speed, he'll be impossible to catch.
I wouldn't rule out him becoming one of the best shooters in the game and developing into a great playmaker.

Don't forget that Ja stayed in college an extra year. His first year stats are worse than Dillingham's.
I'm sure Dillingham would average like 22-24ppg and 5-7 assists if he stayed at Kentucky for one more year.



Agreed except for the Castle bit.
Castle could become a point guard, but he definitely won't be one early on. I think him and Dillingham would be a great duo off the bench.
Everyone keeps thinking about starting lineup fit, but our bench unit is disgustingly bad and the biggest reason for most losses.

I don't think Dillingham gets picked in top10 if we don't take him.

Coming in so much smaller than he was listed significantly raises Dillingham's bust potential IMO. Not nearly as much as Topic's wingspan which puts him in the absolute do not draft territory for me and likely explains why he sucked in Euroleague, but at 6'2" 185 by Year 2 or 3 Dillingham's size wouldn't be a big deal. 6'2" 175 by Year 2 or 3 though seems like even the small PGs will be able to overpower him though. People complain about Garland being small and he's over 190. Also not really talking about starting lineup right now. I don't want Castle and Dillingham together because I want Castle to be groomed to be PG behind Tre and there aren't any minutes for Dillingham then unless you want to dump Tre, which god no I don't want another 22 win season. At 164lbs though Dilly looks like Michael Adams plus 3-4 inches.

[CGD]

I simply don't understand people tripping over themselves wanting to acquire Darius Garland or Malik Monk when Dillingham was arguably or very clearly better than them in college and they all have the same size problem.

They'd do anything to get those players but using a single pick in a supposedly weak draft is the worst thing ever.

Make it make sense.

I don’t think it’s that mind bending. In my view, when it comes down to these small guards, it basically comes down to proof of concept.

The fascinating SI (linked below) lays out the statistical case for why it is becoming increasingly difficult to “stick” as an undersized guard (shorter than 6-foot-2), especially if the player does not have a Defensive Box Plus-Minus of +3.0 or higher in college.

In the draft process teams are dealing with so many unknowns about the player that you really can’t afford to ignore more generalized data about the archetype. In contrast, with a Garland or Young, you’ve seen this archetype buck the trend to become effective players.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/a-study-on-undersized-guards-in-the-nba-draft-small

[R. DeMurre]

The slippery slope debate is always tough with size, but I get the worries about Dillingham because his listed height/weight already represented a floor that would require a lot of other factors to work in order to get a picture of him being successful... so to come in even 12 lbs lighter than that floor had to be at the very least a bit shocking for scouts and FOs. A question for the measurements-don't-matter advocates: If you're a GM and you bring in Dilly for a workout and he weighs in at 161-- that just 3 lbs lighter than what he weighed at the Combine-- do you still dismiss any worries? Or do you say, ok, this is an issue?

[itzsoweezee]

Why is he any further away than other guard prospects in this draft?
The only player who looks like he'd be a solid contributor in a bigger role right away is Carter.

While Dillingham is an awful defender, Sheppard would also be a negative and he surely won't be a point guard right away. Tre would eventually end up as a starter.
And if you look at their games, Sheppard's shot selection is that of a role player, while Dillingham took a lot of first option shots.
We don't know if Castle will ever actually be able to develop into a point guard.
Topic has torn ACL.

I'd argue that Dillingham is less of a prospect than anyone else.
He's got the offensive skillset, full package. It's just about developing physically and translating it.
Others would have to both develop skills they don't have and develop physically, except Castle. But he's so far away from being a point guard, he's definitely also a project.

PATFO keeps gambling with these supposed all-round players who just need to develop their shot and it keeps failing.
It's time to gamble with someone who can actually shoot.

Dillingham/Sheppard are either/or scenario. It's either Sheppard at #4 or Dillingham at #8. Won't get both.

Dillingham can score, but his fundamentals are really poor. He’s not the type of guy that can be a high level role player, which is what he’d need to be playing on a team with wembanyama. He didn’t seem like the type of guy that can contribute without the ball in his hands.

If we’re just comparing other guard prospects, I like Castle and Carter more.

And between Sheppard and Dillingham, I have more confidence in Sheppard’s shooting than Dillingham’s. Sheppard is a catch and shoot guy, while Rob seems to shoot more off the dribble (but I could be wrong). Catch-and-shoot guys are what the spurs need. Not any more of these guys that just pound the ball to death and are unable to adapt to a catch-and-shoot type of role (basically almost everyone on the roster)

[drpill]

Dillingham can score, but his fundamentals are really poor. He’s not the type of guy that can be a high level role player, which is what he’d need to be playing on a team with wembanyama. He didn’t seem like the type of guy that can contribute without the ball in his hands.

If we’re just comparing other guard prospects, I like Castle and Carter more.

And between Sheppard and Dillingham, I have more confidence in Sheppard’s shooting than Dillingham’s. Sheppard is a catch and shoot guy, while Rob seems to shoot more off the dribble (but I could be wrong). Catch-and-shoot guys are what the spurs need. Not any more of these guys that just pound the ball to death and are unable to adapt to a catch-and-shoot type of role (basically almost everyone on the roster)

You are wrong. Rob is great at movement, repositioning, and shooting off the catch. But he also has that self-creation element that Sheppard lacks, and which the Spurs badly need.

[LeBowen]

Dillingham can score, but his fundamentals are really poor.

I disagree. Out of all the lottery guards, only Topic has better vision and traditional playmaking skills.


He’s not the type of guy that can be a high level role player, which is what he’d need to be playing on a team with wembanyama. He didn’t seem like the type of guy that can contribute without the ball in his hands.

Why not? A lot of his threes were assisted, he moves off the ball well. I can't find the stats now, but someone posted it here.
And what's even a role player? This roster needs someone who can break down defenses and create space for others.
Sounds simplistic, but if we have a ballhandler defenders need to chase over the screens, PNR with Wemby is unguardable.


If we’re just comparing other guard prospects, I like Castle and Carter more.

I also like Carter, but if we draft Castle, then I'd want someone with better playmaking skills at #8.
Castle has star potential if he can develop his shot, but that's a big if.


And between Sheppard and Dillingham, I have more confidence in Sheppard’s shooting than Dillingham’s. Sheppard is a catch and shoot guy, while Rob seems to shoot more off the dribble (but I could be wrong). Catch-and-shoot guys are what the spurs need. Not any more of these guys that just pound the ball to death and are unable to adapt to a catch-and-shoot type of role (basically almost everyone on the roster)

I actually don't.
If you're an elite c&s shooter, you're not getting many of those looks in the NBA.
You'll need to shoot while moving, shoot over heavy contests and shoot off the dribble.
Players like McDermott, Belinelli or Redick were almost always on the move while receiving the ball and then shot without making a full stop to go into their jumpshot.
Most of Sheppard's shots were textbook c&s, wide open threes against joke college defenses.
And it's kind of strange that someone shooting 52% from 3pt took only 4.4 attempts in 29mpg.

Players who can shoot off the dribble can shoot c&s threes.
Except Wemby, I guess. :lol But he said it's because his arms are too long.

Our current players pound the ball because they don't know what to do with it.
If we talk c&s guys, that should be left for forwards, imo.

[Mr. Body]

Dillingham can score, but his fundamentals are really poor. He’s not the type of guy that can be a high level role player, which is what he’d need to be playing on a team with wembanyama. He didn’t seem like the type of guy that can contribute without the ball in his hands.

If we’re just comparing other guard prospects, I like Castle and Carter more.

And between Sheppard and Dillingham, I have more confidence in Sheppard’s shooting than Dillingham’s. Sheppard is a catch and shoot guy, while Rob seems to shoot more off the dribble (but I could be wrong). Catch-and-shoot guys are what the spurs need. Not any more of these guys that just pound the ball to death and are unable to adapt to a catch-and-shoot type of role (basically almost everyone on the roster)

Fundamentals are poor on offense? Don't think I can agree there. A great thing about Dillingham is that he does not pound the air out of the ball. He makes quick decisions. My favorite thing about him may be how he stampedes close-outs. Basically, as a guy is racing out to get him on a kick-out, he'll already be driving on that guy, if he's not shooting. There's no sitting and deliberating. The decision-making is instant.

And it's kinda funny. He was attacked somewhere for the fact that 70% of his makes were assisted. (First, I'm unsure about this number.) And then now he's attacked for not being a catch-and-shoot guy.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the breakdown was that he hit 52% on spot-ups. Teammate does an action and finds a freed-up Dillingham. He hit over fifty percent of those. Catch-and-shoot was slightly lower, but still very high. Catch-and-shoot meaning that he's moving into the shot as someone passes it to him. It can be very difficult, and some guys are just one of the two. Dillingham was great at every kind of three-point shot. The only one that slipped a bit was when he shot one out of his own action, like pulling up in transition. It was something like 37% or so. Still good, but I think a sign of freewheeling and sometimes taking bad shots. That can be coached.

Finally, his numbers for the year, there was no difference between his guarded and non-guarded three point numbers. They were practically the same (he shot and missed two more guarded threes than un-guarded threes). At least in college, having a hand in his face seemed to have no impact on his shooting whatsoever.

[Mr. Body]

Someone on realgm.com's draft board pulled up the thread on Stephen Curry back in the 2009 draft. You see much of the same arguments. Stephen Curry is too small. He's too small. Guy's too small, he looks like a child. He's going to get killed.

Absolutely not saying Dillingham is Curry. Of course not.

But to me it's the same. Curry dropped down to 7 because of doubts. To be fair, Harden was picked earlier. Minnesota screwed the pooch in taking two other guards (Ricky Rubio, a good pick, and Johnny Flynn, yikes).

Blake Griffin went number one, a good pick. Then Hashem Thabeet, yikes. Tyreke Evans, who is okay at the time but in retrospect yikes.

So a few of the teams made good picks, but the others tanked it.

There is absolutely no reason Detroit shouldn't take Dillingham. Washington probably should.

Again, not saying he's Curry. But he's the Curry in this draft. Where he's going to fall and everyone's going to wonder how the eff that happened.

The realgm thread: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=776177&start=60

[Mr. Body]

I'll finish with this: Dillingham has a high bust potential if he goes to the wrong team. More than almost any other player if he goes to the wrong place he may have no chance.

[LeBowen]

I'll finish with this: Dillingham has a high bust potential if he goes to the wrong team. More than almost any other player if he goes to the wrong place he may have no chance.

I think Klutch is doing everything in their power to get him to Spurs at #8, tbh.
If Spurs or Jazz at #10 don't get him, I think he'd want to fall all the way to Heat at #15.
OKC is obviously not getting him.

To me, his skill is just too much to ignore.
Speed, handles, passing, shooting from every situation, decision making.
The only question mark other than defense is how effective will he be at getting to the rim and drawing fouls.

We keep talking about Spurs needing to take a swing, I'd rather take a swing with Dillingham who can be the next star guard than one of those theoretical forwards who need to fix a dozen things if they're to become high level starters.

[Pauleta14]

what's hurting Dilly is not as much him not being able to work out than others actually doing so and intiriguing/seducing GMs and their brothers.

As far as defense is concerned, I do'nt really believe in the "mental" part of it you'd just have to make a player buy into for players like Dillingham. Players entering the NBA as terrible in defense very rarely ends up even as half decent. First because there's a knack and instictive part in defending that they just don't have, and they may try to give effort on it for a little while but never long or hard enough so you can actually rely on it. They just iinstinctively don't give a fuck, that's not really part of BB for them.

I keep changing my mind.

I was done on Dilli 1st/2nd choice and then I watch a quick film on him and I see 24' Iverson :lol

I agree on the defense, the fact that's he's been lobbying for the Spurs leads me to think he's ready for/not afraid of it. Everybody knows you don't play under Pop if you don't play D.

He'll adapt to the Spurs culture and Wemby is such a cheat code on help D that he'll always be covered

1st Castle or Risacher if available
2nd Dilli (in favour of Reed mainly bc of the ball handling abilities and quick feet that will allow him to create separation at will)

[KingKev]

Not exactly anything new but apparently Dilli and his camp are lobbying hard for us to pick him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10124810-nba-draft-2024-rumors-rob-dillingham-campaigning-to-join-victor-wembanyama-spurs

[Mr. Body]

Not exactly anything new but apparently Dilli and his camp are lobbying hard for us to pick him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10124810-nba-draft-2024-rumors-rob-dillingham-campaigning-to-join-victor-wembanyama-spurs

Stephon Castle: My career could make or break according to whether I go to San Antonio. Please don't send me to Charlotte.

Rob Dillingham: My career or make or break according to whether I go to San Antonio. Please don't send me to Charlotte.

[LeBowen]

Stephon Castle: My career could make or break according to whether I go to San Antonio. Please don't send me to Charlotte, Detroit, Portland, Washington or Atlanta.

Rob Dillingham: My career or make or break according to whether I go to San Antonio. Please don't send me to Charlotte, Detroit, Portland, Washington or Atlanta.

Fixed that for you.

[Pauleta14]

Not exactly anything new but apparently Dilli and his camp are lobbying hard for us to pick him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10124810-nba-draft-2024-rumors-rob-dillingham-campaigning-to-join-victor-wembanyama-spurs

I like it

Spurs doesn't only mean Wemby, it also means Pop's coaching and defensive expectations

He wants it and it should mitigate some of the doubts there are regarding his defense imo

[scott]

Dilly seems like the kind of dude who, if we don't draft him after him being pretty open about wanting to come here, will drop 50 on us repeatedly throughout his career. Won't even be mad at him for it.

[CGD]

Dilly seems like the kind of dude who, if we don't draft him after him being pretty open about wanting to come here, will drop 50 on us repeatedly throughout his career. Won't even be mad at him for it.

Don’t worry, Castle will smoother him.

[scott]

Don’t worry, Castle will smoother him.

Even back when Pop cared about defense, there were those guys who just always went off on us. I'm not holding my breath that we're going to smother anyone anytime soon :lol

[Ariel]

Stephon Castle: My career could make or break according to whether I go to San Antonio. Please don't send me to Charlotte.

Rob Dillingham: My career or make or break according to whether I go to San Antonio. Please don't send me to Charlotte.
And probably Castle gets picked right before us, and we ignore Dillingham twice. Oh well...

[Dverde]

Dillingham has the potential, it’s just tough to ignore the size and defensive issues. The whole league hunts these liabilities in the playoffs now. I think he would work better being a sixth man.

[lefty20]

Even back when Pop cared about defense, there were those guys who just always went off on us. I'm not holding my breath that we're going to smother anyone anytime soon :lol

Dilly = Michael Redd confirmed

[Uriel]

Not exactly anything new but apparently Dilli and his camp are lobbying hard for us to pick him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10124810-nba-draft-2024-rumors-rob-dillingham-campaigning-to-join-victor-wembanyama-spurs
I’d love to have him at #8 if we can get Risacher at #4.

Risacher and Dillingham is my dream scenario (outside of Risacher and Castle, which is likely impossible without a trade).

[rankingtear]

Krysten Peek insuated Dilly being hidden because of his defense. Ducking 5x5 or 3x3 workout maybe.

[baseline bum]

I’d love to have him at #8 if we can get Risacher at #4.

Risacher and Dillingham is my dream scenario (outside of Risacher and Castle, which is likely impossible without a trade).

Would you do Keldon and #8 for #5 and Fournier if Risacher and Castle are still on the board? I think I probably would.

[DPG21920]

Would you do Keldon and #8 for #5 and Fournier if Risacher and Castle are still on the board? I think I probably would.

Nope. Keldon for 5 straight up? Sure. But I’m not trading Keldon a legit nba player to move up 3 spots. That’s silly. Now if they put in Ivey instead of Fournier? I’m ok with that.

[baseline bum]

Nope. Keldon for 5 straight up? Sure. But I’m not trading Keldon a legit nba player to move up 3 spots. That’s silly. Now if they put in Ivey instead of Fournier? I’m ok with that.

Think I'd rather have Castle than say Carter + Johnson, especially when Keldon's trade value probably lowers further with another year of being a horrific fit next to Victor. Of course I'm not making that trade if Risacher is off the board and I'll just take Castle #4 and see who drops to #8.

[tbdog]

https://youtu.be/ItlB7mvk888?si=dD8cce-AK63VqG9f

It does look good though.

[DPG21920]

Think I'd rather have Castle than say Carter + Johnson, especially when Keldon's trade value probably lowers further with another year of being a horrific fit next to Victor. Of course I'm not making that trade if Risacher is off the board and I'll just take Castle #4 and see who drops to #8.

Hard disagree my friend. Keldon is only a negative asset on this board imo. Every other fan base I interact with values him solidly.

There’s no way his value would in theory get lower than moving up 3 spots in this draft. That’s impossible. Hes a young legit nba rotation player who has proven he can score 15-20 PPg alongside working hard and being a great teammate.

He is worth so much more than moving up 3 in this draft. I’m fine trading Keldon in many scenarios but this is akin to a pure salary dump and that seems outrageous to me.

You better think Castle is the next Kawhi to do that type of deal.

[spurraider21]

I’m not trading keldon to go from 8 to 5 in a flat draft :lol

[baseline bum]

Hard disagree my friend. Keldon is only a negative asset on this board imo. Every other fan base I interact with values him solidly.

There’s no way his value would in theory get lower than moving up 3 spots in this draft. That’s impossible. Hes a young legit nba rotation player who has proven he can score 15-20 PPg alongside working hard and being a great teammate.

He is worth so much more than moving up 3 in this draft. I’m fine trading Keldon in many scenarios but this is akin to a pure salary dump and that seems outrageous to me.

You better think Castle is the next Kawhi to do that type of deal.

Castle having to be the next Kawhi for this to be worthwhile is insanely overvaluing Keldon. I don't think Keldon has as much trade value as say Poeltl did when the Spurs moved him, and suspect he might get you a pick say top 10 protected in return. Castle seems a huge step up from what the team could get at #8 if they're able to take Risacher at #4.

[DPG21920]

Castle having to be the next Kawhi for this to be worthwhile is insanely overvaluing Keldon. I don't think Keldon has as much trade value as say Poeltl did when the Spurs moved him, and suspect he might get you a pick say top 10 protected in return. Castle seems a huge step up from what the team could get at #8 if they're able to take Risacher at #4.

Salary dumping Keldon (which is what trading him to move up just 3 spots in this draft is) is so far undervaluing him that it’s not even worth a conversation in reality IMO. Yes, if you are going to salary dump a legit NBA rotation player who is young and on a very fair deal then the player you are doing it for better be big time worth it.


In this draft Keldon is worth pick 5 by himself - certainly not just moving up 3 spots.

[baseline bum]

I’m not trading keldon to go from 8 to 5 in a flat draft :lol

I know you're not a Castle fan so what if the scenario is Sarr, Clingan, and Castle are taken in the top 3 and you can trade up to #5 for Sheppard to pair with Risacher?

[baseline bum]

Salary dumping Keldon (which is what trading him to move up just 3 spots in this draft is) is so far undervaluing him that it’s not even worth a conversation in reality IMO. Yes, if you are going to salary dump a legit NBA rotation player who is young and on a very fair deal then the player you are doing it for better be big time worth it.


In this draft Keldon is worth pick 5 by himself - certainly not just moving up 3 spots.

Getting #5 for Keldon is pretty crazy, no way I could see that happening but I'd definitely be on board with it. Think you're really overvaluing him to have him worth more than 2023 Poeltl.

[baseline bum]

I think Castle will be a better pro than Keldon and in the NBA you usually win the trade if you get the best player, so I'd move Keldon to be able to draft Castle in that scenario where you can take Risacher #4.

[DPG21920]

Getting #5 for Keldon is pretty crazy, no way I could see that happening but I'd definitely be on board with it.

It’s not very crazy. This is not a great draft (on paper) and Keldon is a for sure, still young, very solid NBA player. He’s proven and young and while hes not perfect he can legit help teams.

Detroit which has plenty of young guys and could still stay young could very well be interested in getting someone who can actually for sure play and be a top 7 rotation piece in lieu of taking another gamble in this draft.

Would I say it’s likely? Ehhhh, that’s too hard to say. But I will tell you the other side of the fence (DET Fans) seemed VERY excited about that trade proposal when I discuss it with them.

[DPG21920]

I think Castle will be a better pro than Keldon and in the NBA you usually win the trade if you get the best player, so I'd move Keldon to be able to draft Castle in that scenario where you can take Risacher #4.

I get what you’re saying about wanting both those players and I think the logic of moving up to secure them in that scenario is sound. I just highly disagree that you pay that much to do it. At that point it becomes a relatively hard to justify price for the risk. Sure, if you’re right and Castle is a stud then who cares. And SA can afford to “lose” Keldon and be ok with all their cap space and extra draft capital to replace him; I just dont agree the risk reward is good there in this type of deal and that SA should be able to easily use say that top 10 CHI pick + 8 to move up and if they still want to move Keldon, they can get something much better than moving up 3 spots.

Put a legit prospect that may still have more value like Ivey in instead of Fournier? Ok, I can live with that because at least theres some upside. But Fournier makes this a literal salary dump and at that point I’d rather them just absorb Keldon straight up (which they can do since they have like 50M in cap space)

[Ariel]

It’s not very crazy. This is not a great draft (on paper) and Keldon is a for sure, still young, very solid NBA player. He’s proven and young and while hes not perfect he can legit help teams.

Detroit which has plenty of young guys and could still stay young could very well be interested in getting someone who can actually for sure play and be a top 7 rotation piece in lieu of taking another gamble in this draft.

Would I say it’s likely? Ehhhh, that’s too hard to say. But I will tell you the other side of the fence (DET Fans) seemed VERY excited about that trade proposal when I discuss it with them.
Those Detroit fans didn't watch him play. Really, there's NO chance Keldon gets you a no. 5 pick. ZERO. May dupe a casual fan who catches a few highlights here and there, but no front office with a brain does that.

[DPG21920]

Those Detroit fans didn't watch him play. Really, there's NO chance Keldon gets you a no. 5 pick. ZERO. May dupe a casual fan who catches a few highlights here and there, but no front office with a brain does that.

Nah - too many on this board are way off on not just Keldon the player but valuations. Could Keldon net 5 on its own? I think so especially for a team like DET., but even if you don’t think so its not that far of IMO.

Even if SA had to give up CHA pick + 2 2nds along with Keldon, its somewhere in that “range”

[baseline bum]

I get what you’re saying about wanting both those players and I think the logic of moving up to secure them in that scenario is sound. I just highly disagree that you pay that much to do it. At that point it becomes a relatively hard to justify price for the risk. Sure, if you’re right and Castle is a stud then who cares. And SA can afford to “lose” Keldon and be ok with all their cap space and extra draft capital to replace him; I just dont agree the risk reward is good there in this type of deal and that SA should be able to easily use say that top 10 CHI pick + 8 to move up and if they still want to move Keldon, they can get something much better than moving up 3 spots.

Put a legit prospect that may still have more value like Ivey in instead of Fournier? Ok, I can live with that because at least theres some upside. But Fournier makes this a literal salary dump and at that point I’d rather them just absorb Keldon straight up (which they can do since they have like 50M in cap space)

I think I'd rather keep the Chicago pick than Keldon too. I don't think Keldon has near the trade value he would have had last summer for instance, and expect it to further diminish with another year of not really fitting this team. I don't see Detroit trading Ivey in the deal, I don't expect they'd even do Ivey for Keldon straight up much less give him and miss their shot to take say Buzelis who I doubt is there at #8. Do you see Keldon as part of this team's long term plan? I don't, so I'm more than happy to move him for someone who I think has a good chance of being a long term piece for this team.

[DPG21920]

I think I'd rather keep the Chicago pick than Keldon too. I don't think Keldon has near the trade value he would have had last summer for instance, and expect it to further diminish with another year of not really fitting this team. I don't see Detroit trading Ivey in the deal, I don't expect they'd even do Ivey for Keldon straight up much less give him and miss their shot to take say Buzelis who I doubt is there at #8. Do you see Keldon as part of this team's long term plan? I don't, so I'm more than happy to move him for someone who I think has a good chance of being a long term piece for this team.

I do. I think Keldon can clearly have a role on a more well rounded team as a legit bench spark plug. His passing improved alongside other things and as long as his 3Ball stays solid hes a damn good player overall.

Again, I have no issue trading Keldon, but salary dumping him to move up 3 spots is just outrageous to me. He would literally have to die for his value to get worse than that so Im not worried at all about another “bad” year in that regard.

[baseline bum]

I do. I think Keldon can clearly have a role on a more well rounded team as a legit bench spark plug. His passing improved alongside other things and as long as his 3Ball stays solid hes a damn good player overall.

Again, I have no issue trading Keldon, but salary dumping him to move up 3 spots is just outrageous to me. He would literally have to die for his value to get worse than that so Im not worried at all about another “bad” year in that regard.

So do you think you're moving Keldon a year from now and still getting a prospect as good as Castle in exchange? Or is there someone you really like who is likely to be there at 8 who you think is as good or a better prospect than Castle? I don't see Sheppard or Buzelis lasting to 8. Holland, Dillingham, and Cody Williams are definitely interesting there, but I don't know if the opportunity cost is passing on Castle. I don't want Topic unless the cost is really cheap, like he drops to the New Orleans slot and the Spurs can trade two or three seconds to take a swing on him.

[DPG21920]

So do you think you're moving Keldon a year from now and still getting a prospect as good as Castle in exchange? Or is there someone you really like who is likely to be there at 8 who you think is as good or a better prospect than Castle? I don't see Sheppard or Buzelis lasting to 8. Holland, Dillingham, and Cody Williams are definitely interesting there, but I don't know if the opportunity cost is passing on Castle. I don't want Topic unless the cost is really cheap, like he drops to the New Orleans slot and the Spurs can trade two or three seconds to take a swing on him.

It’s more that i don’t rate castle any higher really than3-4 other guys in that range alongside it being a terrible value. I like Cody & holland just as much. I think Keldon will help not only win games but that the odds of these players being way better than Keldon is 50/50. And I also think Keldon could be used for something more valuable trade wise than this. Keldon + Holland or Cody > Castle

If it were just trading Keldon for castle and you still get holland or Cody? That makes sense.

[baseline bum]

It’s more that i don’t rate castle any higher really than3-4 other guys in that range alongside it being a terrible value. I like Cody & holland just as much. I think Keldon will help not only win games but that the odds of these players being way better than Keldon is 50/50. And I also think Keldon could be used for something more valuable trade wise than this. Keldon + Holland or Cody > Castle

If it were just trading Keldon for castle and you still get holland or Cody? That makes sense.

Makes sense why you would rate the #8 higher than me then. I have Castle a tier up on those guys and don't mind trading two quarters for 40 cents I guess since the 40 cents is usually more valuable than the two quarters when it comes to NBA rosters.

[DPG21920]

If we could magically throw Keldon into this draft with his current age, contract and what we’ve seen and teams could theoretically draft all of that he is easily a top 10 pick.

[DPG21920]

Makes sense why you would rate the #8 higher than me then. I have Castle a tier up on those guys and don't mind trading two quarters for 40 cents I guess since the 40 cents is usually more valuable than the two quarters when it comes to NBA trades.

True but I’m saying even if I did rate castle higher I still don’t like the deal on value alone. I would trade Keldon for castle. I would not trade Keldon + 8 for Castle. What has castle shown to be worth not only a legit young nba player like Keldon but also throwing in a lottery pick?

[DPG21920]

George Hill netted pick 15 in a deal. Keldon should net similar and pick 5 is not that far off picks 10-15 in a normal draft imo

[baseline bum]

George Hill netted pick 15 in a deal. Keldon should net similar and pick 5 is not that far off picks 10-15 in a normal draft imo

I don't think Keldon would have similar value to 2011 Hill. Back then people still remembered Hill as the guy who was a huge part of knocking off that 2-seed Mavs team in the 2010 playoffs, while Keldon kind of seems like empty stats on a bad team. Keldon's basically a replacement level player (VORP 0.2) while Hill's two seasons before the trade he had a VORP of 1.7 and 1.5. That's like Naz Reid or Jalen Johnson level production.

[Chinook]

STers are deep in their meme bag with Keldon. There are trades where moving him makes sense. But because replacing him will cost at least what he makes, it's not the solution so many want it to be. That's even more true when you're talking about trading him away to (slightly) improve a pick rather than getting a new one.

You aren't trading Castle for Keldon. You're trading Keldon for the peace of mind knowing that you don't have to wait an extra three picks to take Castle. The Spurs shouldn't pass on Castle at 4 if they feel that strongly about him. Risacher would be nice because there is almost certainly going to be a PG at 8 that will work. But in and of himself he's just a decent wing prospect. If Castle can't be out a decent wing prospect, he's not worth trading Keldon and a top-10 pick to acquire.

But let's entertain the trade, because as I said, there are paths forward.



After this trade (and assuming the Spurs pay a team to take Graham's guaranteed money off their hands), the Spurs would have about $39.7 Million in cap space. Their depth chart would look like this:


Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Branham,
Risacher, Champangie
Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey


So ... What? I guess they can try to get Monk signed to a $100M/4 deal. That leaves $16.4 Million in cap space. Then there'd be the room exception for $8 Million. So let's add O'Neale and Osman.


Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Risacher, O'Neale, Champangie
Sochan, Osman, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

It's not a bad result, but there are mock off-seasons that involve picking Sheppard, Dillingham and more. If the Spurs truly feel like there are two blue-chippers on the board at their pick, and they have a deal in place to snag both, I would trust the FO to do what they think is right. But if they're just preferable to near-equal prospects, then I don't see how you could do this trade. Just have draft discipline.

[TD 21]

Since I'm a nice guy, allow me to be of assistance: :lmao At this nonsense again. Johnson isn't worth anything close to a 5th pick in any draft and counting stats without context in '24.