The Sacramento Kings have agreed on a sign-and-trade that will land DeMar DeRozan on a three-year deal, send Harrison Barnes to the San Antonio Spurs and Chris Duarte, two second-round picks and cash to the Chicago Bulls. [Archive] - Page 2

LeBowen

07-07-2024, 06:26 AM

Will be a good idea to have another wing but it will depends on what they think of champ imo they like him and the team will be the same as today plus mamu or another big. btw i really like the deal, a swap and a taking a good vet who's 38% carreer 3pt shooter is nice.

Tbh, I wouldn't trade for any more role players except for Collins upgrade, would be just lateral moves.
If we're to actually compete, we either need to get a legit second option like Markkanen or have some of the young guys take a big leap forward.

Manu&Duncan fan

07-07-2024, 07:58 AM

I didn’t realize we got a 1st rd pick swap for this… turn it around and include it in the Lauri trade?

Very possible. Because Utah will have to absorb both Keldon and Collins in order for us to extend Lauri. So, we definitely need to give Ainge one or two more high picks.

mudyez

07-07-2024, 07:59 AM

Was Huerter ever really in the conversation? I like Barnes, but would have loved Huerter instead.

DPG21920

07-07-2024, 08:03 AM

Regarding the “touch” rule I would venture to guess SA sends the cash they got from CHA to CHI to satisfy that no?

Chinook

07-07-2024, 08:07 AM

Pretty sure CHI25:2 is going from SA to Chicago

CGD

07-07-2024, 08:11 AM

CGD

07-07-2024, 08:12 AM

Regarding the “touch” rule I would venture to guess SA sends the cash they got from CHA to CHI to satisfy that no?

Or just some bullshit SRP.

exstatic

07-07-2024, 08:22 AM

Regarding the “touch” rule I would venture to guess SA sends the cash they got from CHA to CHI to satisfy that no?

That’s what I was thinking.

exstatic

07-07-2024, 08:25 AM

Would trading Bassey out solve the cap space issue of being about to fit Paul?

Only if you trade him into someone’s cap space, and there is a cost to that. Much easier to just cut him.

exstatic

07-07-2024, 08:26 AM

Or just some bullshit SRP.

I think we got $200K from CHA. Even a shit second rounder will return more than that.

Bruno

07-07-2024, 08:29 AM

The cash for the touch rule isn't the same amount than the cash a team must send in a two teams trade. It was, an maybe still is, $1.1M for the touch rule and $110K for a two teams trade.

For the touch rule, Spurs can't send a protected second round pick (the usual top55 protected), they must send a pick that will convey. They might send a quite bad pick because they have a huge chest of second round pick.

For example, in 2026, Spurs will have as second round picks:
- worst of Thunder, Mavs and 76ers.
- best of Spurs and worst of Pacers/Heat.
- worst of Pels and Blazers.
- Jazz
- Hornets pick if Spurs don't get their 2025 first round pick.

Spurs might send the worst of these 4/5 second round picks to satisfy the touch rule.

Bruno

07-07-2024, 08:30 AM

Would trading Bassey out solve the cap space issue of being about to fit Paul?

Not enough, Spurs would still be about $2.5M shy of where they need to be.

DPG21920

07-07-2024, 08:37 AM

Pretty sure CHI25:2 is going from SA to Chicago

What???? Spurs give up the ability to land CHI 25 first for this? I would be big time surprised.

heyheymymy

07-07-2024, 08:42 AM

What???? Spurs give up the ability to land CHI 25 first for this? I would be big time surprised.

Spurs have CHI 2025 1st and 2nd

I believe Chinook is referring to the second round pick. The Spurs would still keep the CHI 25 first.

exstatic

07-07-2024, 08:43 AM

What???? Spurs give up the ability to land CHI 25 first for this? I would be big time surprised.

Not the first, the second. And that isn’t out in the NBAoSphere anywhere. Seems to just be conjecture.

heyheymymy

07-07-2024, 08:44 AM

But I hope it's not that CHI 25 second

Take one of those shitty ones, 26 best of Spurs and worst of Pacers/Heat. lol

DPG21920

07-07-2024, 08:48 AM

Spurs have CHI 2025 1st and 2nd

I believe Chinook is referring to the second round pick. The Spurs would still keep the CHI 25 first.

Ok - that would make sense. I thought he was saying CHI 25 first and 2nd

Eaglenole2002

07-07-2024, 08:52 AM

On a scale of 1-10, I’d put this about a 7.5. This year is a simulator type of year in my eyes. Barnes serves a few purposes: 1) A floor spacing 4 who does not require high usage. He’s not a part of the future, but this player archetype very much is. 2) A contract that can be aggregated into a bigger deal. I suspect he’ll be kept this year so it won’t come into play, but a year from now his expiring contract could be very useful in a bigger deal. 3) Professionalism. The Spurs need some more adults on the floor who know where to be and when to be there.

Spurs9

07-07-2024, 08:56 AM

Just woke up to see this, love this trade. Great move!

Obstructed_View

07-07-2024, 08:59 AM

i find it really vomit inducing, how underrated champ is by the spurs fans.

Not playing defense, having non-NBA athleticism and being immensely streaky will do that.

exstatic

07-07-2024, 09:00 AM

But I hope it's not that CHI 25 second

Take one of those shitty ones, 26 best of Spurs and worst of Pacers/Heat. lol

Hope not, too, but the reality is they always sell/trade the first pick in the second round anyway.

Obstructed_View

07-07-2024, 09:02 AM

On a scale of 1-10, I’d put this about a 7.5. This year is a simulator type of year in my eyes. Barnes serves a few purposes: 1) A floor spacing 4 who doesn’t not require high usage. He’s not a part of the future, but this player archetype very much is. 2) A contract that can be aggregated into a bigger deal. I suspect he’ll be kept this year so it won’t come into play, but a year from now his expiring contract could be very useful in a bigger deal. 3) Professionalism. The Spurs need some more adults on the floor who know where to be and when to be there.
Well put. I think he's the perfect vet addition. Between him and CP, these kids are going to have a lot to learn if they decide they want to.

Spurs9

07-07-2024, 09:12 AM

So glad we didn't give up tons of picks for Lauri and sign him to a massive contract. This keeps things way more flexible for a solid player.

exstatic

07-07-2024, 09:24 AM

So glad we didn't give up tons of picks for Lauri and sign him to a massive contract. This keeps things way more flexible for a solid player.

That’s not necessarily off the table. It would depend on him signing or not signing an extension. That will be known in a month or so.

cjw

07-07-2024, 09:35 AM

Pickswap in 2032 :lol

That’s in seven drafts. Not dissimilar from a point of career for Wemby as it would be for someone like Tatum’s Celtics lucking into a pick swap this year.

It’s a product of a front office that doesn’t have to worry about getting fired every six months, and lets them play the long game when very few other GMs have that latitude. Think about the Ravens/Patriots front office in the NFL over past decade, or Chiefs/Eagles more recently. This is even more of a long game that will pay massive dividends when Wemby is in his prime.

You add these every damn time if it’s available to you. Especially from historically dysfunctional franchises like the Kings and Wolves.

Atl Spur

07-07-2024, 09:54 AM

That’s in seven drafts. Not dissimilar from a point of career for Wemby as it would be for someone like Tatum’s Celtics lucking into a pick swap this year.

It’s a product of a front office that doesn’t have to worry about getting fired every six months, and lets them play the long game when very few other GMs have that latitude. Think about the Ravens/Patriots front office in the NFL over past decade, or Chiefs/Eagles more recently. This is even more of a long game that will pay massive dividends when Wemby is in his prime.

You add these every damn time if it’s available to you. Especially from historically dysfunctional franchises like the Kings and Wolves.
I hate that you even had to educate / explain to any of us so called fans but here we are. Thanks

Chomag

07-07-2024, 10:15 AM

I like this trade, Barns doesn't necessarily improve the overall talent on the team but he does improve the overall roster make up, improving the IQ and a fitting vet player for a Wemby lead offense. I do however share the concerns with those feeling that this is the FO saying they did something and are done. Wemby still needs an Allstars caliber sidekick and anything less will just keep this team in the middle of the pack no matter how great Wemby becomes.

spurraider21

07-07-2024, 10:17 AM

I dno if they can manage to unload Wesley or branham or something but if they can manage to retain Champagnies current contract in all this, that would be a solid W.

Shampenny isn’t special but his contract is quite nice

fafo

07-07-2024, 10:20 AM

1809802287809716648

ace3g

07-07-2024, 10:33 AM

https://x.com/johnhollinger/status/1809967880814924234

Amuseddaysleeper

07-07-2024, 10:33 AM

This would just be dumb, and I legit don't understand this attitude. He was really good in 2022-2023 and clearly was thrown off last year and his confidence suffered. It's just a nonsense take. He's not making that much and is the only backup we have at that position.

Is he a longterm solution? No. Is there any factual or basketball basis to wanting to get rid of him? No, it's just kneejerk nonsense.

Don’t be dim, he was absolutely dog shit and that was a brain dead contract the Spurs handed out. He was easily one of our worst players when he’s on the floor. We desperately need a big to replace him because he was horrific

Amuseddaysleeper

07-07-2024, 10:34 AM

I wouldn't take him for the same money. He doesn't play a wisp of defense, refuses to take three pointers and dominates the ball.

The worst part is that he doesn't specifically do anything wrong, per se. He's a good guy. So he poisons your young players. They all learn from him. Then they all do the same stupid shit. Dejounte did the same stuff, dribbling the clock down for himself.

LMAO nailed it!

Mr. Body

07-07-2024, 10:54 AM

Don’t be dim, he was absolutely dog shit and that was a brain dead contract the Spurs handed out. He was easily one of our worst players when he’s on the floor. We desperately need a big to replace him because he was horrific

Nah, you're just being an idiot. I mean, just on the fact that we need a backup big alone makes you wrong.

TD 21

07-07-2024, 10:55 AM

As usual, people are viewing the rotation as too black and white. Even though Sochan and Barnes will start together, they will sop up most of the PF minutes. Johnson will sub in for one (probably Barnes because the second unit needs his shooting) around mid quarter 1st and 3rd, then they'll mostly alternate before a closing (non blowout) lineup is determined.

Branham is the automatic, he's fucking useless.

Wesley and Cissoko are even more useless though and Bassey's usefulness is in question because of his injuries.

I suspect they still view Branham as a legitimate prospect.

I don't know why people think Champagnie is in danger.

Mr. Body

07-07-2024, 11:01 AM

As usual, people are viewing the rotation as too black and white. Sochan and Barnes will sop up most of the PF minutes, even though they'll start together. Johnson will sub in for one (probably Barnes because the second unit needs his shooting) around mid quarter 1st and 3rd, then they'll mostly alternate before a closing (non blowout) lineup is decided.

Wesley and Cissoko are even more useless though and Bassey's usefulness is in question because of his injuries.

I suspect they still view Branham as a legitimate prospect.

I don't know why people think Champagnie is in danger.

IMO Blake Wesley would be the first gone, but he's on a guarantee and so cutting him doesn't clear any cap space. Cissoko doesn't look great but is in the same boat - doesn't help with cap space, and using assets to dump them would be tragic.

Branham still has potential, but has to show that he can be on the floor this year.

Guessing Bassey is cut due to his inability to stay healthy, sadly.

I don't really know how much cap needs to be cleared, but this leaves Mamu or Champ, I think, with at least one of them having to go. I'd think the team would like to keep them, but choices have to be made to get CP on.

scott

07-07-2024, 11:01 AM

Seems obvious that one, if not both, of the SRPs going to CHI are from SAS. Since we apparently have no clue how to properly use FRPs anyway, it doesn't really matter.

TD 21

07-07-2024, 11:21 AM

IMO Blake Wesley would be the first gone, but he's on a guarantee and so cutting him doesn't clear any cap space. Cissoko doesn't look great but is in the same boat - doesn't help with cap space, and using assets to dump them would be tragic.

Branham still has potential, but has to show that he can be on the floor this year.

Guessing Bassey is cut due to his inability to stay healthy, sadly.

I don't really know how much cap needs to be cleared, but this leaves Mamu or Champ, I think, with at least one of them having to go. I'd think the team would like to keep them, but choices have to be made to get CP on.

It shouldn't take much in the way of draft capital and maybe cash to dump them.

Not to the point where they'd value that over retaining Champagnie or Branham (yes, the advanced stats are terrible; I'm speaking from what I suspect to be their perspective).

If Bassey is waived and clears, I believe he can be re-signed.

Mamukelashvili wouldn't have much of a role again anyway.

Amuseddaysleeper

07-07-2024, 11:32 AM

Nah, you're just being an idiot. I mean, just on the fact that we need a backup big alone makes you wrong.

So we need no back up bigs? So Wemby will play 48 minutes a game? Sochan at C? No wonder you get clown on this forum constantly with these dumbass takes.

Collins is an absolute SIEVE defensively, absolutely not worth his contract. One of the worst players on the floor for the squad with the worst 5 man combinations.

Again, try not to be dim, I feel bad when you get bullied on here but I can see why it happens.

Mr. Body

07-07-2024, 11:35 AM

It shouldn't take much in the way of draft capital and maybe cash to dump them.

Not to the point where they'd value that over retaining Champagnie or Branham (yes, the advanced stats are terrible; I'm speaking from what I suspect to be their perspective).

If Bassey is waived and clears, I believe he can be re-signed.

Mamukelashvili wouldn't have much of a role again anyway.

I really don't know the waive-and-clear rules. If they can pull the players back, then there's no real issue here. Champ and Bassey are great bench guys.

I do think the team remains positive on Branham, certainly more than general thought here.

Osman will find more PT elsewhere.

Mr. Body

07-07-2024, 11:37 AM

So we need no back up bigs? So Wemby will play 48 minutes a game? Sochan at C? No wonder you get clown on this forum constantly with these dumbass takes.

Lol, this is what I said. Do you not know how to read? Even if Collins has another off year we need him as a backup big. WTF just learn how to read as a very basic.

Splits

07-07-2024, 11:37 AM

It's a good move, another vet to teach the kids what to do and when to do it. Nice use of cap space. The 2nd year isn't great, but can be managed

3&D_TBH

07-07-2024, 11:38 AM

My gut says that Mamu will be back based on nothing but the way he and Vic vibe. That’s enough for me tbh.

Arguendo

07-07-2024, 11:38 AM

BTW, this trade, as reported, isn't legal CBA wise:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84

There must have a "touch" link between Spurs and Bulls. It could be a second round pick or Spurs could trade Bassey to Bulls.

Thanks for the info.
Id assumed that one of the 2nds to the Bulls is coming from the Spurs since those picks haven’t been specified. Also this is the exact type of situation where a very low value asset like the worst of 3/4 teams 2nd rd pick come into play, you have to give up some bona fide value rather than a fake pick (top 55 protected). I take this to also mean a pick swap is not actual value unless it eventually converts, so a 2nd rd swap that may disappear wouldn’t qualify.

Amuseddaysleeper

07-07-2024, 11:38 AM

Lol, this is what I said. Do you not know how to read? Even if Collins has another off year we need him as a backup big. WTF just learn how to read as a very basic.

My friend you want to employ this guy:

6.6 PPG • 4.3 RPG • 2.6 APG • 37.3 FG%* • 4.3 3PFG%* (not a typo) • -21.8 NETRTG • 30.1% on wide open shots shit year (defender 6+ ft away) • Allowing 63.3 FG% to players who have attempted 5+ shots vs him this year

itzsoweezee

07-07-2024, 12:01 PM

I’d much rather have Barnes than Derozan. This was an all-around win for the Spurs.

I think the Kings could be a team the Spurs leapfrog next year. Vivek can’t help himself with these stupid decisions.

Arguendo

07-07-2024, 12:05 PM

i find it really vomit inducing, how underrated champ is by the spurs fans.
It’s insane, 22y/o, good size (6’7” shoes, 6’9.5” wingspan), avg shooter, durable (played 67/72 games once he got the job, started 59), locked in for 3 yrs non guaranteed, where final yr may be adjust up as under min.
Dudes in the 10 man rotation for nearly every team, rostered by everyone at his current level & sometimes 22y/o get better, esp on non-tanking teams. Dude has actual value on the K & age alone

slick'81

07-07-2024, 12:06 PM

Its definitely not earth shattering but spurs filled some depth without giving up much of anything. Cant really be mad about this particular deal even if barnes is finished as a starter

Mugen

07-07-2024, 12:17 PM

Hopefully the Bulls pick conveys in '26 or '27 tbh.

scott

07-07-2024, 12:23 PM

It’s insane, 22y/o, good size (6’7” shoes, 6’9.5” wingspan), avg shooter, durable (played 67/72 games once he got the job, started 59), locked in for 3 yrs non guaranteed, where final yr may be adjust up as under min.
Dudes in the 10 man rotation for nearly every team, rostered by everyone at his current level & sometimes 22y/o get better, esp on non-tanking teams. Dude has actual value on the K & age alone

Champ may have a relatively low ceiling, but his floor isn't that bad. In fact, I'd venture to say that even today his floor is above Sochan's floor, but Sochan's ceiling is much higher.

CGD

07-07-2024, 12:58 PM

1809802287809716648

Brutal

WaywardTexan

07-07-2024, 01:09 PM

Brutal

Especially when you add:

”Not out: Zack Levine’s contract”

TD 21

07-07-2024, 03:29 PM

I really don't know the waive-and-clear rules. If they can pull the players back, then there's no real issue here. Champ and Bassey are great bench guys.

I do think the team remains positive on Branham, certainly more than general thought here.

Osman will find more PT elsewhere.

This article claims they can: Where the Spurs stand after the Harrison Barnes trade - Pounding The Rock (https://www.poundingtherock.com/2024/7/7/24193666/where-the-san-antonio-spurs-stand-after-the-harrison-barnes-trade-sacramento-kings-chicago-bulls)

Whatever the machinations, I feel confident in saying Champagnie and Branham will ultimately be on the team. Hopefully Bassey will be too.

sfernald

07-07-2024, 03:34 PM

This would just be dumb, and I legit don't understand this attitude. He was really good in 2022-2023 and clearly was thrown off last year and his confidence suffered. It's just a nonsense take. He's not making that much and is the only backup we have at that position.

Is he a longterm solution? No. Is there any factual or basketball basis to wanting to get rid of him? No, it's just kneejerk nonsense.

‘There’s nothing wrong with wanting to upgrade a position of need, backup center, if we can. We should be trying to upgrade any of our weak points that we can every off season and trade deadline at this point. There’s no rookies coming that will save us, but there’s a lot of vets in FA and available in trade this offseason that could still help us eke out a few more wins and maybe grab a play in spot.

Mr. Body

07-07-2024, 03:59 PM

‘There’s nothing wrong with wanting to upgrade a position of need, backup center, if we can. We should be trying to upgrade any of our weak points that we can every off season and trade deadline at this point. There’s no rookies coming that will save us, but there’s a lot of vets in FA and available in trade this offseason that could still help us eke out a few more wins and maybe grab a play in spot.

Oh, definitely agree about upgrading Collins. Totally disagree with the "he sucks always sucks worst player evah" takes, which are just straight up ahistorical. It's the sort of dumb hysteria that infects this fanbase for some stupid reason. Zach Collins was really good at the end of 2022-2023. That's a fact. He was not good last season. This doesn't dissolve the fact that he was really strong. Maybe, just maybe, his confidence was shot and never settled into constantly changing roles.

None of that is great, but it doesn't mean he cannot become good again. Regardless, the takes that he we need to get rid of him yesterday or use picks to get rid of him are just the grade Z takes that we should be better about. His contract isn't bad and we have no other options right now. People need to settle down.

Seventyniner

07-07-2024, 04:10 PM

Do we know yet that the Spurs really are absorbing Barnes into cap space, or is there some way they can structure things to stay over the cap?

MannyIsGod

07-07-2024, 04:25 PM

Do we know yet that the Spurs really are absorbing Barnes into cap space, or is there some way they can structure things to stay over the cap?

They just renounced all their cap holds so they're definitely taking him into space.

timvp

07-07-2024, 04:32 PM

I'm with Chinook in thinking the Spurs gave the Bulls back their 2025 second round pick. The other second in the trade could be from the Spurs too.

sfernald

07-07-2024, 04:42 PM

objective

07-07-2024, 04:42 PM

So the Spurs might have spent 3 seconds, including a likely 31-40 Chicago pick plus $40 million in cap to get a just a first round swap?

Weak

mystargtr34

07-07-2024, 06:06 PM

So the Spurs might have spent 3 seconds, including a likely 31-40 Chicago pick plus $40 million in cap to get a just a first round swap?

Weak

Yes the Spurs traded away the next Juan Nunez, Siddy Cissoko or Harrison Ingram for Harrison Barnes and an unprotected FRP swap.

scott

07-07-2024, 06:13 PM

Yes the Spurs traded away the next Juan Nunez, Siddy Cissoko or Harrison Ingram for Harrison Barnes and an unprotected FRP swap.

Yeah, given the way the Spurs are treating the second round, I kind of want them to be more aggressive at using them for purposes other than taking bums or selling for cash.

Arguendo

07-07-2024, 06:13 PM

Champ may have a relatively low ceiling, but his floor isn't that bad. In fact, I'd venture to say that even today his floor is above Sochan's floor, but Sochan's ceiling is much higher.
💯

Trill Clinton

07-07-2024, 06:15 PM

Another great move from Brian Wright.

Robz4000

07-07-2024, 06:43 PM

I'm with Chinook in thinking the Spurs gave the Bulls back their 2025 second round pick. The other second in the trade could be from the Spurs too.

Changes the grade from an A+ to a B+ in that case. That Bulls '25 2nd is great value tbh.

Mugen

07-07-2024, 06:50 PM

The Spurs have wasted 2nds for the last several years since Tre (including this year's in a good player like Furphy). I don't trust them to find value outside of the lottery (frankly outside of the top 5) anymore so turning those 2nds into actual guys that can help the roster is fine by me tbh.

tonight...you

07-07-2024, 06:54 PM

Changes the grade from an A+ to a B+ in that case. That Bulls '25 2nd is great value tbh.
Probably not.

Cabrito

07-07-2024, 06:57 PM

Furphy might be a fine prospect but so have many Kansas products over the years. Embid has been great. A few role players and a lot of duds that transitioned into the pros Kansas. I will be surprised if he turns out to be anything special.

Cabrito

07-07-2024, 07:03 PM

Besides, I can’t stop hearing the voice of Dave Chappelle in his Rick James character saying the name “Johnny Furphy” like he would for the name “Charlie Murphy.”

Obstructed_View

07-07-2024, 08:46 PM

Besides, I can’t stop hearing the voice of Dave Chappelle in his Rick James character saying the name “Johnny Furphy” like he would for the name “Charlie Murphy.”

Lol I was yelling that during the draft. :lol

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 08:33 AM

Interesting: Im wondering if it’s just mechanics or if SA has another deal lined up which will clear the requisite cap space before execution of the Barnes deal?

1810295234699366812

Mr. Body

07-08-2024, 08:38 AM

Interesting: Im wondering if it’s just mechanics or if SA has another deal lined up which will clear the requisite cap space before execution of the Barnes deal?

1810295234699366812

I've seen message board numbercrunchers indicate that they're actually in good shape and don't need to move anybody. Situation's confusing.

Mr. Body

07-08-2024, 08:40 AM

I believe they waive those players and resign them when they clear waivers, which would be likely.

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 08:42 AM

I believe they waive those players and resign them when they clear waivers, which would be likely.

Sure - but why not go ahead and just do that if you have to do it anyways when you did Cedi + Barlow? Unless you have something lined up to where you do not need to rescind their QO’s?

exstatic

07-08-2024, 08:47 AM

My gut says that Mamu will be back based on nothing but the way he and Vic vibe. That’s enough for me tbh.

You know who else was really good at the end of a trash season? Zach Collins.

Mr. Body

07-08-2024, 08:56 AM

Sure - but why not go ahead and just do that if you have to do it anyways when you did Cedi + Barlow? Unless you have something lined up to where you do not need to rescind their QO’s?

I can only guess they want the market to burn itself out in case someone might grab them?

LeBowen

07-08-2024, 08:59 AM

ace3g

07-08-2024, 09:09 AM

Sure - but why not go ahead and just do that if you have to do it anyways when you did Cedi + Barlow? Unless you have something lined up to where you do not need to rescind their QO’s?

Yeah, frustrating when it comes to CBA order of operations; having to sign certain players before others can be signed and trying to read the tea leaves about what certain moves (renouncing rights, etc) mean.

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 09:46 AM

You know who else was really good at the end of a trash season? Zach Collins.
Almost like having actual PG play, actual rotations, actual roles helps in a team sport?
FWIW, everyone but Sochan & Bran was much improved after the AS break. Prolly also helps that your 19 y/o stud turned 20 & had 50 games to learn NBA style & speed.
Zach isn’t good, but I’d be surprised if he doesn’t play closer to his mean, think the PG Sochan/Bran & early failure to live up to his K crushed his confidence & production.

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 09:51 AM

If there are no plans to trade any wings, Cedi probably has no interest in staying and collecting DNPs.

Jeremy, Keldon, Barnes will get most wing minutes.
Castle/Devin will also take some wing minutes, if Champagnie stays there are none left.
Yeah, the fit isn’t good for Cedi or Spurs with Barnes on board, at least if Cedi wants to play. I’d love to have him as depth, but he’d rack up DNPs

MannyIsGod

07-08-2024, 10:36 AM

There's plenty of minutes for Cedi. We need more than 3 forwards y'all.

LeBowen

07-08-2024, 10:45 AM

There's plenty of minutes for Cedi. We need more than 3 forwards y'all.

He played 17mpg this season, we added Barnes and Castle.
I see the rotation as somewhat of a 1-3-1 situation.
If everyone's healthy, CP3/Tre for point guard position, Wemby/Collins for center.
Other 3 positions are interchangeable between 5 or 6 players.

Devin, Castle, Keldon, Jeremy, Barnes are all way ahead of Cedi.
Branham will surely get some more chances, Champagnie might stay, there's just not enough minutes for Cedi unless CP3 is resting and Castle moves to point guard.

ace3g

07-08-2024, 10:52 AM

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
5m
The San Antonio Spurs have renounced the free agent rights for the following players:

Dominick Barlow
David Duke Jr.
Sandro Mamukelashvili
Cedi Osman

Degoat

07-08-2024, 10:54 AM

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
5m
The San Antonio Spurs have renounced the free agent rights for the following players:

Dominick Barlow
David Duke Jr.
Sandro Mamukelashvili
Cedi Osman

so is that all that had to be done to make room?

Mugen

07-08-2024, 11:06 AM

So Champs is safe?

Mr. Body

07-08-2024, 11:15 AM

So Champs is safe?

I think and Bassey have to be waived. That's a separate move, and the question is why the wait. My amateur guess is they don't want anyone to pick them up, as they're really cheap and good rotation guys, so are waiting as long as they can.

SpursFan86

07-08-2024, 11:20 AM

CP3/Castle/Tre
Vassell/Branham/Wesley
Sochan/Champagnie
Barnes/Keldon
Wemby/Collins/Bassey

Would seem to imply this is our minimum 13-man roster, yeah? Don’t get hung up on order or positional spot, just quickly threw it on paper. If so I like it…Champagnie was frustrating as a starter getting 20 mpg but as a guy getting spot minutes as a wing he’s much more appealing.

If Bassey can get healthy and show some of the flashes we’ve seen then he’s a good bench big to give us sorely needed rebounding/rim protection. Or was he officially renounced earlier already?

LeBowen

07-08-2024, 11:21 AM

I guess they're looking for someone to take a flyer on Wesley since we can't cut him to free up cap space. Branham would be in the same boat if I was in charge.
Nice use of two FRPs.

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 11:24 AM

So Champs is safe?
1810344860110528618

timvp

07-08-2024, 11:32 AM

timvp

07-08-2024, 11:42 AM

1810344860110528618

Waiving Bassey would be fine because I doubt anyone picks him up. He could be re-signed to a minimum deal if they want to keep him.

Losing Champagnie would be somewhat unfortunate. He basically has a three-year, $9 million contract left with all years non-guaranteed. That's a lot of cheap years for a decent player.

pad300

07-08-2024, 11:43 AM

Not too big of a deal because the Spurs can sign any of those players with their ~$8 million exception.

Can they split the exception? Also, for how many years can they sign them? (ie Could we pull a couple of Champagnie deals?)

Mugen

07-08-2024, 11:44 AM

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 11:45 AM

Would be pretty annoying to lose Champ and Bassey just to bring in Barnes and a potential pick swap.

Good contracts with control for the next few years and serviceable end of bench players tbh. Mamu and Barlow never got a fair shake from the old man as well.
im not in love with him like some others here are, but im baffled at pop's refusal to play mamu until the end of the season. was it really that important to give Cedi run at PF knowing he's not coming back?

exstatic

07-08-2024, 11:49 AM

I guess they're looking for someone to take a flyer on Wesley since we can't cut him to free up cap space. Branham would be in the same boat if I was in charge.
Nice use of two FRPs.

They were #20 and #26. Pretty much the normal outcome for those positions. They were asked to be rotation players as rookies and second years, and weren’t up to the task.

Mugen

07-08-2024, 11:51 AM

im not in love with him like some others here are, but im baffled at pop's refusal to play mamu until the end of the season. was it really that important to give Cedi run at PF knowing he's not coming back?

Graham/Mamu both got shafted last season tbh. Graham less so since he was already getting paid. But Mamu would have been a top 3 passer on the team last season :lol

Wouldn't be surprised if he left for a coach that could get him 5-10mins a game to infuse some energy tbh.

timvp

07-08-2024, 11:53 AM

Can they split the exception? Also, for how many years can they sign them? (ie Could we pull a couple of Champagnie deals?)

IIRC, the room exception can be for up to three years and can be split between multiple players, so yeah could do a couple Champagnie-like deals. It'd be easy to keep any of Osman, Mamu, Barlow, Bassey or Duke if the Spurs want to. It doesn't look like any of them are in line to get much over a minimum deal in this market.

Mugen

07-08-2024, 11:53 AM

I get it if Bassey's knees are cooked but seems like a good body to keep around considering how thin they are at backup C.

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 11:55 AM

Graham/Mamu both got shafted last season tbh. Graham less so since he was already getting paid. But Mamu would have been a top 3 passer on the team last season :lol

Wouldn't be surprised if he left for a coach that could get him 5-10mins a game to infuse some energy tbh.
if they played graham and he did well, theres a chance he could have been flipped at the deadline to some team needing bench shooting (and a nice contract situation as well)

Mr. Body

07-08-2024, 11:57 AM

if they played graham and he did well, theres a chance he could have been flipped at the deadline to some team needing bench shooting (and a nice contract situation as well)

Everyone in the league knows who Devonte Graham is. It's not like they're run by AI computers who aren't aware and get stunned by 'new information' if a player suddenly starts playing again. The "play a guy to trick teams into thinking they're suddenly different" is not an actual thing.

timvp

07-08-2024, 12:00 PM

I get it if Bassey's knees are cooked but seems like a good body to keep around considering how thin they are at backup C.

I mean, you could cut Bassey and get him back even cheaper. I doubt there's a market out there for a traditional backup center whose knees have exploded two years in a row and three times in his career.

Mr. Body

07-08-2024, 12:02 PM

exstatic

07-08-2024, 12:03 PM

if they played graham and he did well, theres a chance he could have been flipped at the deadline to some team needing bench shooting (and a nice contract situation as well)

He played really well between acquisition and the end of last year. Teams didn’t seem to be beating down our door for him.

LeBowen

07-08-2024, 12:04 PM

They were #20 and #26. Pretty much the normal outcome for those positions. They were asked to be rotation players as rookies and second years, and weren’t up to the task.

Normal outcome for an average development franchise.
I guess we're at that point now.

It's a bad look considering Braun, Kessler, Jovic, Watson and Nembhard were picked in #20-31 range and developed way better.

I can understand Branham pick, guard with size and great wingspan, good stats, didn't work out.
But Wesley was another atrocious shot in the dark.

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 12:07 PM

He played really well between acquisition and the end of last year. Teams didn’t seem to be beating down our door for him.
and yet you still made that bet :lol

exstatic

07-08-2024, 12:09 PM

Normal outcome for an average development franchise.
I guess we're at that point now.

It's a bad look considering Braun, Kessler, Jovic, Watson and Nembhard were picked in #20-31 range and developed way better.

I can understand Branham pick, guard with size and great wingspan, good stats, didn't work out.
But Wesley was another atrocious shot in the dark.

When we were hitting on late 20s draft picks, they were selected, and sent to Austin for a year. Then, when they played, it was with 3 HOF players to draw the attention. That was the trick. That was how it was done.

exstatic

07-08-2024, 12:11 PM

and yet you still made that bet :lol

Shifting assets for a player is not the same thing as writing a salary check.

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 12:12 PM

Shifting assets for a player is not the same thing as writing a salary check.
i think theres a heavy correlation there. if you are willing to pay a guy 15 mil as a free agent, think youd be willing to provide SOME asset for him as well, even if its a SRP

if you're willing to pay a guy 30mil, youd probably be willing to give more than a first rounder to land him, etc

Mugen

07-08-2024, 12:15 PM

Christian Braun, Kessler, Jovic, Peyton Watson, Nembhard, Jaylin Williams, Hardy, and Vince Williams Jr

All guys I'd take over Branham or Wesley tbh.

It's okay to admit that they're average at best at drafting and development tbh :lol

timvp

07-08-2024, 12:23 PM

1810344860110528618

It's tough to figure out what the Spurs should do because we don't even know what they need to do. We don't know CP3's contract details and we don't know if Barnes waived or partially waived his trade kicker.

I'm guessing the options are:

1) Waive Champagnie and Bassey. This isn't a terrible option. The Spurs could bring back Bassey if they want him. They need another center so Bassey or Barlow could still fit that need. (I'd probably pick Barlow but it's close.) They may be able to bring back Champagnie if he clears waivers. If not, they could use the $8 million room exception to replace him with Osman or even free agents like Trent, Kennard or Highsmith. Pop obviously sees Mamu as like a combo forward so he could be brought back as a replacement.

2) Salary dump Branham or Wesley. Using a second round pick to salary dump a first round pick feels pretty wasteful but that's probably what it would cost. I'm not sure which one I'd want to keep. With so many future first round picks in the pipeline, it'll be important for the Spurs to have a quick trigger to dump players that don't hit. Between Branham and Wesley, you probably keep the one who has a better work ethic. Both are about equally far away from being in a rotation on a good team. (Maybe there's a chance that it would only take a salary dumping of Cissoko. That'd be an easy choice if that's an option.)

LeBowen

07-08-2024, 12:27 PM

When we were hitting on late 20s draft picks, they were selected, and sent to Austin for a year. Then, when they played, it was with 3 HOF players to draw the attention. That was the trick. That was how it was done.

Sorry, but teammate quality has nothing to do with Wesley having zero NBA-level skills.

Can we insert Wesley and one more FRP into that Barnes trade? I guess Bulls wouldn't mind.
Bassey's knees are done, but Champagnie is a reliable end of the bench wing, we have so many SRPs it doesn't even matter.

exstatic

07-08-2024, 12:31 PM

Sorry, but teammate quality has nothing to do with Wesley having zero NBA-level skills.

Can we insert Wesley and one more FRP into that Barnes trade? I guess Bulls wouldn't mind.
Bassey's knees are done, but Champagnie is a reliable end of the bench wing, we have so many SRPs it doesn't even matter.

Your opinion, and that’s fine, but you can’t convince me that a full year in Austin, followed by practicing with/against Tony Parker every time and playing with the Big Three wouldn’t produce a better outcome.

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 12:31 PM

Spurs doing a bigger trade where they actually get some value makes more sense to me. Execute a trade where you get a player you like using the salaries of guys you dont if you are going to use picks anyways.

Go ahead and consolidate some of the money/spots into Cam Johnson or whatever.

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 12:33 PM

id be pretty surprised if champagnie doesnt get claimed off waivers

Bruno

07-08-2024, 12:38 PM

Spurs must lower by $5.02M their team salary to to the trade. That's assuming Paul has sign for $11M and Barnes trade bonus will be paid.

My guess would be Bassey and Wesley gone.

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 12:38 PM

Waiving Bassey would be fine because I doubt anyone picks him up. He could be re-signed to a minimum deal if they want to keep him.

Losing Champagnie would be somewhat unfortunate. He basically has a three-year, $9 million contract left with all years non-guaranteed. That's a lot of cheap years for a decent player.
With the last yr only 22K over the project min-a longer PO this yr means he’ll likely be near min in 25-26 & revised up to min in 26-27’.
Wouldnt b huge big loss, but I can see him being a solid+ 9th/10th man his 24 & 25y/o seasons basically making min with the bonus of a non-guaranteed cap flexibility.
Seemingly would make more sense to trade him than cut him & lose that K. There have got to be apron teams that would value the flexibility alone, much less a 22y/o, durable, long, avg shooter locked in below market.

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 12:50 PM

I truly invite people to stop bitching and whining about made up scenarios and what they think is happening, this glorious cloud-world of all these great prospects that were missed, and look at the 2022 and tell us who exactly was still available instead of Branham and Wesley.

The only one I can find is Andrew Nembhard, and the Spurs already had Tre Jones and, at that point, Dejounte Murray. You could claim Nicola Jovic and that's a maybe. He looks okay. Taking swings at Branham and Wesley was not bad considering what was available.

This is why it's hard to take a lot of Spurs fans seriously. They'd rather bitch and complain than actually look at what was going on and circumstances available.
Yeah, really hate the captain hindsight schtick, the lacking of understanding of variance (each pick is a lotto ticket, can’t expect all or even most to hit), there will always be All-stars picked later, but it’s almost always luck/them following to you (Luka to Mavs, Tatum to Celts, almost everyone ever draft past lottery). We got incredibly spoiled bc the FO identified TP, Kawhi, maybe Manu but he was prolly luck. There’s always mistakes, but Keldon & Vassel & Tre were very good picks, outside the Top 5 there aren’t busts it’s just lotto ticks that hit or didn’t.

Mugen

07-08-2024, 12:54 PM

I'm pretty high on Castle. If he hits then I'll give them credit for finding a good player in a shitty draft tbh.

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 01:16 PM

Spurs must lower by $5.02M their team salary to to the trade. That's assuming Paul has sign for $11M and Barnes trade bonus will be paid.

My guess would be Bassey and Wesley gone.
Thanks Bruno. No clue where Sportrac gets their numbers, but they’re crediting Barnes for the full kicker, $850k this yr & next fwiw

MannyIsGod

07-08-2024, 01:20 PM

The Branham and Wesley picks - especially Wesley - were fine. We knew that both were longshots to begin with but we wanted them to aim high. I have more hope for Wesley tbh because it takes point guards a long time to put it together so he might very well still get there but drafting based on his athletic potential at the end of the first was a good gamble. The Spurs weren't trying to get a Kyle Anderson with these picks.

z0sa

07-08-2024, 01:27 PM

Bassey seems gone - or at least cut and resigned? - for sure. I hope it's Wesley out of BranHam/Wesley who stays, if that's the choice after cutting Bassey. Wesley's defensive upside is still ahead of Branham's offensive potential. If defense is going to be our calling card, then I don't see how we keep Branham. That said, spacing on the 2nd unit already is terrible. Wesley does nothing to help that. Tough choice but since this is looking like another development year, I'd personally give the nod to Wesley

scott

07-08-2024, 01:32 PM

If there Spurs were a better team, the Wesley and Branham picks would be a lot worse (Braun, Kessler, Jovic, Watson, Nembhard, Jaylin Williams, Max Christie, Vince Williams Jr would have all be more useful picks for a good team) - but we were a bottom dwelling team with plans on purposely getting worse to tank for Wemby. Makes perfect sense that we'd take big swings with an above average likelihood of not hitting.

The key at this point is not to hold onto those missed swings longer than we have to. Just move on.

slick'81

07-08-2024, 01:32 PM

Branham v wesley who is kept?

Chinook

07-08-2024, 01:32 PM

Should be noted that if Paul reduces his salary far enough, he falls into room exception territory and renders this hand-wringing moot. Of course, if that's an option, it would've been better to lock that in prior to renouncing Mamu

onechance87

07-08-2024, 01:33 PM

Degoat

07-08-2024, 01:36 PM

The Truth #6

07-08-2024, 01:39 PM

Wesley and Branham were fine picks. The issue could be our average or below average development staff and coaches didn't maximize their potential.

exstatic

07-08-2024, 01:39 PM

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 01:40 PM

Branham v wesley who is kept?
between those two you'd probably keep branham (but no way you would exercise his 4th year option)

he's been a dogshit and low iq defender, but at least branham has had glimpses of useful scoring ability. with his 6'10 wingspan there is a world where his defense can become adequate. he's a solid ballhandler for a 2 who has been miscast as a combo guard. post ASB he also shot close to 40% from 3. he was a good outside shooter in college. yes his release is low and that causes some problems. he's probably never going to be a shooting specialist, but he should be at least good enough from 3

wesley is so inept offensively that im not really sure what you can do with him. i love his defensive intensity, but the effectiveness of his defense waned as the year went by. he had some awesome defensive moments, but being as useless as he is on offense despite his speed... i dont see it.

besides, we just drafted castle to be the next "big, defensive specialist point guard with questions about his outside shot" prospect. no room for both alongside paul and tre. we have a decent enough PG room for now. dont have a 2 other than vassell (castle can, but i imagine they want him to eventually pivot to point full time)

exstatic

07-08-2024, 01:42 PM

bro wesley is bad.Guy cant shoot or pass,Hes is no pg.He will be out of the nba unless he steps it up.

That’s usually what happens with #26 picks is the point.

LeBowen

07-08-2024, 01:48 PM

It was apparently really hard to pick at least one useful player from this bunch.

https://i.imgur.com/iVXDMX1.png

scott

07-08-2024, 01:48 PM

between those two you'd probably keep branham (but no way you would exercise his 4th year option)

he's been a dogshit and low iq defender, but at least branham has had glimpses of useful scoring ability. with his 6'10 wingspan there is a world where his defense can become adequate. he's a solid ballhandler for a 2 who has been miscast as a combo guard.

wesley is so inept offensively that im not really sure what you can do with him. i love his defensive intensity, but the effectiveness of his defense waned as the year went by. he had some awesome defensive moments, but being as useless as he is on offense despite his speed... i dont see it.

besides, we just drafted castle to be the next "big, defensive specialist point guard with questions about his outside shot" prospect. no room for both alongside paul and tre. we have a decent enough PG room for now. dont have a 2 other than vassell (castle can, but i imagine they want him to eventually pivot to point full time)

Yeah, Bran at least offers some value as deep bench microwave scorer type for those games you fall behind early and need someone to soak up those minutes, or your other top scorers have an off night, or depth for injuries. Wesley offers none of that. He'd be worth continuing as a project if we were still in hard tank mode searching for our star. Landing Wemby might be the worst thing to happen for Blake Wesley.

scott

07-08-2024, 01:50 PM

It was apparently really hard to pick at least one useful player from this bunch.

https://i.imgur.com/iVXDMX1.png

Managing to pick the two worst is just as impressive as finding the best! Not easy to do! :lol

Killakobe81

07-08-2024, 01:59 PM

Not surprised and it’s a net win for Sa. Give a 2nd rounder and get back an unprotected swap for facilitating the deal. Def more upside than the 2nd they gave up especially considering they have extra and Barnes is also useful. Smart GMing

I think in spots this is a better move than CP3 …
If they keep him and spurs are in the playoff hunt having an experienced 3 and d wing with some post up game
With legit playoff experience seems like a positive all around
Plus you could flip him if spurs are not in the hunt or God forbid Wemby gets hurt and you switch to tank mode …
Solid move

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 02:05 PM

I think in spots this is a better move than CP3 …
If they keep him and spurs are in the playoff hunt having an experienced 3 and d wing with some post up game
With legit playoff experience seems like a positive all around
Plus you could flip him if spurs are not in the hunt or God forbid Wemby gets hurt and you switch to tank mode …
Solid move

What’s up Killa! Long time - hope you are doing great.

Mr. Body

07-08-2024, 02:12 PM

I must be in the minority but I still really like Branham as a prospect still lol he’s gonna learn tricks from CP3 on getting his shot off. He’s not a starter but I see no reason why he can’t be a barbosa type off the bench.

Wesley has shown no growth whatsoever, he plays defense because he can’t do anything else.

Branham has a future in the league, maybe not with the Spurs, but has one.

I don't think people remember how Wesley was constantly driving into traffic and getting swatted time and again. Much discussion last summer about if he could ever improve on this. And he did. By the end of the year he was locating shooters and using the paint better.

Branham had two big things I wanted to see from him, 1) launch whenever open from three, and 2) stay engaged and work harder on defense. He improved on both things.

It's a SpursTalk thing, but I see it among some of the worst Reddit members. Nobody has any memory. Nobody knows enough about basketball to see development. Hell, nobody really remembers the good players this franchise has developed over the years.

It's kind of pathetic, and the reason why I get so charged about people here. There are good commentators, but then there are too many who should be supporters of the worst franchises, like the Hornets, because they barely understand anything about this team or its history.

Not saying Branham or Wesley will turn into anything, but seriously a lot of people here have the brains of earthworms. Just complete nonsense and pointless.

jjspur

07-08-2024, 02:38 PM

id be pretty surprised if champagnie doesnt get claimed off waivers

My guess an over the cap playoff team like Phoenix or the clippers pick him up as an end of the bench player.

exstatic

07-08-2024, 02:41 PM

My guess an over the cap playoff team like Phoenix or the clippers pick him up as an end of the bench player.

I think you need cap room to make a waiver claim.

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 02:50 PM

I think you need cap room to make a waiver claim.
if they still have the MLE/BAE open, they could make use of that. champ's salary fits under the BAE or even the TPMLE

i dont know if there is or isnt a certain rule about waiver claims and whether you can use exceptions for those. you may be right

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 02:59 PM

I must be in the minority but I still really like Branham as a prospect still lol he’s gonna learn tricks from CP3 on getting his shot off. He’s not a starter but I see no reason why he can’t be a barbosa type off the bench.

Wesley has shown no growth whatsoever, he plays defense because he can’t do anything else.
Same, I haven’t seen anything but tools from Wesley, Brans better but some big flaws. But they’re both so young & spent 2 seasons on tanking teams w/o structure. Think they both still have potential for NBA careers, but esp Wesley seems like a good reclamation project on another team (or another league). I don’t see how Wesley gets any meaningful minutes in SA if CP3/Devin/Steph/Tre all play 60+ games not to mention Bran. Even with playing Steph & Bran at 3 there’s a number crunch & at this point I’d rather get minutes to Champ, much lower ceiling but much higher floor, can only develop so many guys (also being generous with develop, Vessel may have developed himself, PATFO needs to prove they have the ability to develop anyone or any one damn skill)

Chinook

07-08-2024, 03:05 PM

if they still have the MLE/BAE open, they could make use of that. champ's salary fits under the BAE or even the TPMLE

i dont know if there is or isnt a certain rule about waiver claims and whether you can use exceptions for those. you may be right

I know they changed the CBA to allow the MLEs to be used for trades, but I hadn't heard they're allowing them to be used on waiver claims. Historically it's only been TEs and cap space that could do that

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 03:09 PM

I know they changed the CBA to allow the MLEs to be used for trades, but I hadn't heard they're allowing them to be used on waiver claims. Historically it's only been TEs and cap space that could do that
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/how-nba-teams-become-hard-capped.html

looks like MLE and BAE can be used on waiver claims, but not the TPMLE

MannyIsGod

07-08-2024, 04:01 PM

Yeah, Bran at least offers some value as deep bench microwave scorer type for those games you fall behind early and need someone to soak up those minutes, or your other top scorers have an off night, or depth for injuries. Wesley offers none of that. He'd be worth continuing as a project if we were still in hard tank mode searching for our star. Landing Wemby might be the worst thing to happen for Blake Wesley.

IMO Wesley still has a far higher ceiling than Branham as a player so I'd keep him. Guys who can score if given the ball are a dime a dozen in the NBA. If we let Lonnie walk we should let Branham walk but as you said earlier we should do it sooner. I'm not even advocating for keeping Wesley around either, but I do think he has the bigger chance to turn into a good NBA player.

objective

07-08-2024, 04:02 PM

Is Bassey even going to be healthy enough to start the season?

dbestpro

07-08-2024, 04:09 PM

I want to see if one year of Paul improves the play of our young guards before shipping them off.

Ice009

07-08-2024, 04:12 PM

I want to see if one year of Paul improves the play of our young guards before shipping them off.

That's a good point - giving them a chance to work with CP before shipping any of them off.

exstatic

07-08-2024, 04:14 PM

I want to see if one year of Paul improves the play of our young guards before shipping them off.

Way too reasonable and measured of a take for Spursralk.

scott

07-08-2024, 04:20 PM

IMO Wesley still has a far higher ceiling than Branham as a player so I'd keep him. Guys who can score if given the ball are a dime a dozen in the NBA. If we let Lonnie walk we should let Branham walk but as you said earlier we should do it sooner. I'm not even advocating for keeping Wesley around either, but I do think he has the bigger chance to turn into a good NBA player.

Don't disagree with you, but I see it this way: Wesley may have a higher ceiling than Bran, but Bran's floor is higher and Bran's floor is actually useful at the end of the bench and Wesley isn't going to have much opportunity to achieve his ceiling.

At the end of the day, my real feeling is who fucking cares lol :lol

DR_Admiral

07-08-2024, 04:28 PM

By 2030, the Spurs will be a top 5 team and the Kings will be back to the lottery. Barnes is a shell of his former self, but his veteran intangibles will help elevate the maturity of this young Spurs team.

Bruno

07-08-2024, 04:36 PM

J_Paco

07-08-2024, 04:56 PM

Way too reasonable and measured of a take for Spursralk.

Not just a reasonable take, but exactly why you bring in a veteran like CP3. Branham was so-so last season (mostly inconsistent and his confidence wavered), but Wesley was much improved over his horrendous rookie season. Both need to make a major leap to stay long-term, but with Paul's + Vassell's injury history, plus Castle being a rookie (who can theoretically play 1 - 3, the Spurs need depth.

J_Paco

07-08-2024, 05:03 PM

Branham has a future in the league, maybe not with the Spurs, but has one.

I don't think people remember how Wesley was constantly driving into traffic and getting swatted time and again. Much discussion last summer about if he could ever improve on this. And he did. By the end of the year he was locating shooters and using the paint better.

Branham had two big things I wanted to see from him, 1) launch whenever open from three, and 2) stay engaged and work harder on defense. He improved on both things.

It's a SpursTalk thing, but I see it among some of the worst Reddit members. Nobody has any memory. Nobody knows enough about basketball to see development. Hell, nobody really remembers the good players this franchise has developed over the years.

It's kind of pathetic, and the reason why I get so charged about people here. There are good commentators, but then there are too many who should be supporters of the worst franchises, like the Hornets, because they barely understand anything about this team or its history.

Not saying Branham or Wesley will turn into anything, but seriously a lot of people here have the brains of earthworms. Just complete nonsense and pointless.

Preach.

This forum - as much as I enjoy talking Spurs basketball - is full of numerous numbskulls & trolls that just parrot each other.

"Blake Wesley can"t pass," yet he had a good assist-to-turnover ratio & the second best assist percentage (25.3%) on the team.

Chinook

07-08-2024, 05:13 PM

After checking the CBA, Spurs team salary is allowed to be $250K over the cap after the trade.

By looking at Realgm trade machine (they have access to the NBA salary database), it seems that Paul salary is around $10.5M.

So:
- If Barnes waive his trade bonus, waiving Bassey should be enough to do the trade.
- If Barnes keep his trade bonus, waiving Bassey and salary dumping Cissoko will work.
.

If the Spurs are allowed to aggregate Barnes immediately if they're over the cap but still used cap space to acquire Barnes? The common framing tends to be below or above the cap, but I think the actual splitting point is using an exception or not.

scott

07-08-2024, 05:33 PM

1810441730543796406

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

timtonymanu

07-08-2024, 05:35 PM

Expected, tbh. Sucks he got injured cause I wanted to see him get playing time last year.

Bruno

07-08-2024, 05:36 PM

If the Spurs are allowed to aggregate Barnes immediately if they're over the cap but still used cap space to acquire Barnes? The common framing tends to be below or above the cap, but I think the actual splitting point is using an exception or not.

I'm quite sure they are. The $250K leeway exist to make the cap space as good as TPE (that have a $250K leeway).

scott

07-08-2024, 05:36 PM

1810441621894242703

Spurs social media team got the old 2008 Macbook to fire up this time to do a photoshop of Barnes jersey

ace3g

07-08-2024, 05:37 PM

https://x.com/nateryansports/status/1810442383068397750

ace3g

07-08-2024, 05:39 PM

https://x.com/spurs/status/1810443209731924239

Chinook

07-08-2024, 05:41 PM

I guess two-ways count as touches. Seems SA kept their second-rounders then, making this off-season even weirder.

scott

07-08-2024, 05:42 PM

https://x.com/nateryansports/status/1810442383068397750

Glad to hear we plan on bringing Bassey back. So long as that happens, I'll go ahead and give this offseason an A :lol

scott

07-08-2024, 05:43 PM

I guess two-ways count as touches. Seems SA kept their second-rounders then, making this off-season even weirder.

Wright and co. deeply studying the Applebee's menu, knowing that they've got more SRPs to sell

Chinook

07-08-2024, 05:43 PM

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 05:44 PM

I guess two-ways count as touches. Seems SA kept their second-rounders then, making this off-season even weirder.

Incredible job by SA navigating this. NO additional seconds sent out and they keep Champs. Just job well done man.

Bruno

07-08-2024, 05:45 PM

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 05:46 PM

Robz4000

07-08-2024, 05:47 PM

Chinook

07-08-2024, 05:48 PM

exstatic

07-08-2024, 05:49 PM

PATFO suuuuucks! They didn’t do exactly what I waaaaanted!

-ST

Top notch transaction.

BatManu20

07-08-2024, 05:49 PM

scott

07-08-2024, 05:51 PM

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 05:52 PM

So 2 open roster spots full time in addition to the open 2-ways. Im guessing Mamu + Bassey for those spots is most likely? Really happy SA got to keep Julian.

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 05:53 PM

I think it speaks very highly of the Spurs' standing with players thay Graham extended his guarantee date for free, Paul took less money and Barnes waived his kicker. It's nice to see that "doing right by the player" attitude reciprocated

Damn straight. I felt for a while SA was not getting anything in return; we were getting our coaches poached, FA weren’t choosing SA etc…these are small items you mentioned but overall its really great to see.

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 05:54 PM

Yep, good trade for the Spurs. Still think it is weird they sacrificed the 2025 cap space they allegedly were trying to preserve, but I didn't think it was worth preserving anyway... so I'm all for an upgrade like Barnes to the roster. A+ trade. Offseason is just one specific move away from an A+ overall for the offseason (right now I'd say it's a C+/B-)

And while you are technically right on the 25 cap space since Barnes is a guarantee there, I dont think it functionally blocks much since even outside of them maybe not even needing the space, I believe they could cheaply pivot of that money if needed even if it cost a 2nd or 2 to dump him.

scott

07-08-2024, 05:56 PM

And while you are technically right on the 25 cap space since Barnes is a guarantee there, I dont think it functionally blocks much since even outside of them maybe not even needing the space, I believe they could cheaply pivot of that money if needed even if it cost a 2nd or 2 to dump him.

I agree and I believe cap space is generally overrated, so I don't care about it... I just think it's odd that it was reported that the Spurs cared but then they did this deal anyway. Makes me think the Spurs know better than to overrate cap space, but it's a handy excuse when they want to prep the fanbase for disappointment :lol

LeBowen

07-08-2024, 05:57 PM

Eaglenole2002

07-08-2024, 06:04 PM

As somewhat of a hater, it was obvious Wright is a great salesman, he got us a lot of assets.
The thing that remains to be seen is how good of a buyer he'll be.

This is a great trade, now it's time to outsmart Ainge.

Im far from a hater, but the asset accumulation and s the easiest part for f the rebuild once you admit it’s time. We’re getting closer to nut-cutting time. That’s the hard part.

objective

07-08-2024, 06:08 PM

Gray counting as a touch when a top 55 protected pick doesn't seems like a ridiculous loophole

objective

07-08-2024, 06:13 PM

So if that's everything, then good for Wright in not having to cut or asset attach trade Champagnie, Wesley or Branham.

MannyIsGod

07-08-2024, 06:15 PM

PATFO suuuuucks! They didn’t do exactly what I waaaaanted!

-ST

Top notch transaction.

This shit is so tired man. Very few people have disliked this deal. You guys have to stop assigning an opinion to the hundreds of people here just because you don't like it. Its beyond fucking annoying and only you weird homers who never want to say anything bad about the Spurs do it.

MannyIsGod

07-08-2024, 06:17 PM

So if that's everything, then good for Wright in not having to cut or asset attach trade Champagnie, Wesley or Branham.

Oh I would have loved for them to be able to attach Wesley or Branham but I suspect they didn't want them. It really doubt it was because the Spurs were dying to keep them.

Keeping Champ is good though. I'm hopeful he can hit some 3s in a better offense.

EDIT: N/M I think I misread your point. You meant its good taht they didn't have to send off a pick to dump Wesley or Branham right? If so then yeah, agreed.

Truckules

07-08-2024, 06:19 PM

The issue with Bassey coming back is the team needs center depth and he should still be out with his injury. I guess with Gray gone, there's a two-way spot they can use. But it'll have to be on an actual third-dtring center.

The injury happened December 10, 2023 so I'd expect him to be back before November, outside of complications. As long as Bassey is back, I'm pretty happy with this trade. Bassey is a really good backup C that is also a good complement to Wemby.

Mr. Body

07-08-2024, 06:19 PM

Wow, they protected Champ. He was very likely to get nabbed given his contract.

It's very likely Bassey is not picked up and they can sign him again.

exstatic

07-08-2024, 06:21 PM

This shit is so tired man. Very few people have disliked this deal. You guys have to stop assigning an opinion to the hundreds of people here just because you don't like it. Its beyond fucking annoying and only you weird homers who never want to say anything bad about the Spurs do it.

I didn’t assign it to just this trade. There's a loud 50% Manny who hate PATFO.

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 06:21 PM

https://x.com/nateryansports/status/1810442383068397750
Excellent, this means they didn’t have to send out another 2nd either?? Fantastic trade, Graham, Bassey (w/ability to resign) & NOLA 25-2 for Barnes & an unprotected swap.

slick'81

07-08-2024, 06:22 PM

No way spurs are dumping champ on a friendly deal

Spurs Brazil

07-08-2024, 06:23 PM

https://twitter.com/DonHarris4/status/1810453321620332683

ace3g

07-08-2024, 06:24 PM

https://x.com/Casey_Viera/status/1810453077427888519

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 06:28 PM

So:
- Paul took less than $11M to make the deal work.
- Barnes renounced to his trade bonus to make the deal work.
- Second round picks Chicago is getting are coming from Sacramento.
- Using Gray to make the touch rule work is damn smart.

What a great trade...
One thing about the Spurs culture respected by every agent is they try very hard to accommodate their guys. It sometimes hurts them short-term, but can reap big benefits. This offseason Graham, CP3, Barnes all did them a solid, the agents know the Spurs will pay it back when called upon. Also, state income tax is a nice fringe benefit here.

Does anyone know if Spurs can reinstate Barnes kicker if they end up moving him down the road??

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 06:30 PM

So 2 open roster spots full time in addition to the open 2-ways. Im guessing Mamu + Bassey for those spots is most likely? Really happy SA got to keep Julian.
I would really like to see Mamu in a beautiful game O with Vic-Paul-Castle for 12-18mpg

RC_Drunkford

07-08-2024, 06:33 PM

great trade by Brian Wright. He's great when it comes to flipping contracts and cap space into assets.

TD 21

07-08-2024, 06:35 PM

- So much for the big purge.

- In terms of third center, presuming Bassey clears waivers and based on a typical ACL recovery timeline, opening night is probably pushing it, but it's close enough to not have to utilize a standard contract on one (especially if an emergency option like Mamukelasvhili is re-signed).

- Barlow has always come across as something of a malcontent (plus he lacks the girth/rebounding they need), so I get the sense it won't be him in the unlikely event Bassey is claimed.

- If necessary, Yurtseven and Biyombo seem the most likely alternatives.

Pauleta14

07-08-2024, 06:36 PM

https://x.com/YossiGozlan/status/1810455525672534037

timtonymanu

07-08-2024, 06:36 PM

Waiving champ would have been messed up. I don’t like him as a starter but he earned his chance to be here.

timtonymanu

07-08-2024, 06:38 PM

https://x.com/YossiGozlan/status/1810455525672534037

Guy put down the wrong champenny. Ours is better, tbh.

scott

07-08-2024, 06:42 PM

Assuming he keeps number 40, Barnes will be the 16th Spur to wear that number.

Willie Anderson certainly the most accomplished of the bunch, but here are others who have donned the 4-0

Gary Bradds 1971
Len Chappell 1972
Ansley Truitt 1973
Jerry Chambers 1974
Collis Temple 1975
Sylvester Norris 1980
Dave Corzine 1981-1982
Mike Brittain 1986-1987
Kurt Nimphius 1988
Willie Anderson 1989-1995
Joe Courtney 1997
Sean Marks 2006
Kurt Thomas 2008-2009
Boban Marjanović 2016
Tyler Zeller 2020

MannyIsGod

07-08-2024, 06:43 PM

Robz4000

07-08-2024, 06:43 PM

NASpurs

07-08-2024, 06:45 PM

Can't wait to see the new additions in the Summer League team.

TD 21

07-08-2024, 06:46 PM

They added 3 new rotation players and could possibly add more with the room exception. I don't know how much more of a change y'all expected but that is pretty much what anyone should have expected.

I clearly meant in relation to this transaction. Champagnie, Bassey, Branham, Wesley and Cissoko were all rumored to be possible collateral damage. In the end, only Bassey was maybe sacrificed.

Darkwaters

07-08-2024, 06:50 PM

I guess two-ways count as touches. Seems SA kept their second-rounders then, making this off-season even weirder.

Maybe that's why he hasn't played the Summer League yet?

exstatic

07-08-2024, 06:50 PM

Branham, Wesley, and Cissoko are all guaranteed, and would not help with increasing cap room if waived.

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 06:52 PM

So:
- Paul took less than $11M to make the deal work.
- Barnes renounced to his trade bonus to make the deal work.
- Second round picks Chicago is getting are coming from Sacramento.
- Using Gray to make the touch rule work is damn smart.

What a great trade...
thats awesome

if barnes waived the bonus, did cp3 still need to take less than 11 mil to allow us to skirt by without cutting champ?

Darkwaters

07-08-2024, 06:57 PM

Branham, Wesley, and Cissoko are all guaranteed, and would not help with increasing cap room if waived.

I could have sworn Sidy was partially guaranteed. Dang, he actually got a really decent contract for a rookie. I mean, not Bronny James good. But then again, I have no idea who Sidy's dad is.

scott

07-08-2024, 07:00 PM

spurraider21

07-08-2024, 07:01 PM

I could have sworn Sidy was partially guaranteed. Dang, he actually got a really decent contract for a rookie. I mean, not Bronny James good. But then again, I have no idea who Sidy's dad is.
yeah this second season is nearly fully guaranteed. his 3rd year is entirely non-guaranteed. he has some partial guarantee kick in during the summer and then the majority of it guarantees at the start of the season

exstatic

07-08-2024, 07:03 PM

I could have sworn Sidy was partially guaranteed. Dang, he actually got a really decent contract for a rookie. I mean, not Bronny James good. But then again, I have no idea who Sidy's dad is.

It is a partial, but this year is guaranteed like $1.3M out of 1.8M, so not much cap relief.

Pauleta14

07-08-2024, 07:18 PM

https://x.com/YossiGozlan/status/1810458352398553121

Mugen

07-08-2024, 07:22 PM

I wonder if NOLA puts in a waiver claim on Bassey? Hurting at C tbh.

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 07:24 PM

I could have sworn Sidy was partially guaranteed. Dang, he actually got a really decent contract for a rookie. I mean, not Bronny James good. But then again, I have no idea who Sidy's dad is.
:clap Not fair, as the Lakers told us, Bronny earned his way, every 55 pick get multi-years guaranteed nothing to see here

Arguendo

07-08-2024, 07:25 PM

Somehow, Sidy might actually be a worse basketball player than Bronny
PoSiTiOnLeSs BaSkEtBaLl!!

Mugen

07-08-2024, 07:27 PM

CGD

07-08-2024, 07:49 PM

So:

CP3/Tre/Wesley
Vasell/Branham/Champ
Barnes/Castle/Cissoko
Sochan/Keldon
Wemby/Collins

Bring Mamu and Bassey back to complete the 3rd unit?

Not bad, i'd say somewhere between about 35-40 wins depending on CP0's health and development of Devin/Sochan/Wemby tbh

Im still not convinced Barnes automatically starts. That will depend on Castle’s work this summer. Could still see:

CP3/Tre/Blake
Dev/Champ/Malaki
Steph/Keldon/Sidy
Sochan/Harrison
Wemby/Collins

Could be nice to pick up one more Center if Bassey gets away.

DPG21920

07-08-2024, 08:06 PM

It should be a 10 man rotation (Wemby, Sochan, Dev, Castle, CP3, Tre, Barnes, Julian, Collins, Keldon) with Mamu + Branham + Blake + Bassey on the fringes.

jjspur

07-08-2024, 08:37 PM

I think you need cap room to make a waiver claim.

My comment was more about Champ and less about teams with or without exemptions or space to sign a player. Champ is a decent player who played a certain role for this team, certainly not the best but also not the worst on the team. He's shown enough in the last two years that I'd hate for the spurs to lose him because of salary constraints. If they did, I'm sure some team would pick him up.

Darkwaters

07-08-2024, 08:44 PM

Somehow, Sidy might actually be a worse basketball player than Bronny

Ugghh, no kidding.

Again, Sidy has so much stuff going for him. I just don't understand how a player can aspire to be a professional basketball player and somehow forget to learn how to shoot the ball.

TD 21

07-08-2024, 11:06 PM

Starters: Sochan, Barnes, Wembanyama, Vassell, Paul

Rotation: Johnson, Castle, Jones, Collins

Spot minutes: Champagnie, Branham, Bassey?

Deep bench/G-League: Wesley, Cissoko, Ingram (TW)

I wonder if NOLA puts in a waiver claim on Bassey? Hurting at C tbh.

Unlikely. They've got Theis and Missi as backups. They need a starter.

Seventyniner

07-08-2024, 11:55 PM

Boban GOAT #40 tbh

I will never forget the fans in Philly cheering on Boban as the Spurs buried The Process Sixers by 50.

aDwNPTWUAcs

exstatic

07-09-2024, 06:26 AM

I will never forget the fans in Philly cheering on Boban as the Spurs buried The Process Sixers by 50.

aDwNPTWUAcs

Or this one. He’s genuinely known as one of the nicest players in the league.

cMgqDVXw1wY

Obstructed_View

07-09-2024, 07:34 AM

Preach.

This forum - as much as I enjoy talking Spurs basketball - is full of numerous numbskulls & trolls that just parrot each other.

"Blake Wesley can"t pass," yet he had a good assist-to-turnover ratio & the second best assist percentage (25.3%).
I looked it up, and Blake Wesley is nowhere to be found on the assist percentage leaders list, because he hasn't played enough to qualify.

His assist to turnover ratio is pretty good because getting rejected in the paint just counts as a shot attempt and not a turnover.

Bruno

07-09-2024, 08:23 AM

https://x.com/KCJHoop/status/1810462580156104877

djohn2oo8

07-09-2024, 08:54 AM

exstatic

07-09-2024, 09:03 AM

25-30. Paul is not making it a full season or even half as a starter.

They’re not going to play him 35 minutes, more like 20-25. If he wants to catch on with a contender, depending on a team’s schedule, it’s 50-55 games to the trade deadline, and maybe 60 to the buyout date, I can see him playing 45ish if traded or 50ish if bought out.

Seventyniner

07-09-2024, 09:11 AM

They’re not going to play him 35 minutes, more like 20-25. If he wants to catch on with a contender, depending on a team’s schedule, it’s 50-55 games to the trade deadline, and maybe 60 to the buyout date, I can see him playing 45ish if traded or 50ish if bought out.

I think he meant the Spurs will only win 25-30 games on the season, at least partially due to Paul not making it through the whole season as a starter for the Spurs.

Dejounte

07-09-2024, 09:14 AM

Mugen

07-09-2024, 09:24 AM

25-30. Paul is not making it a full season or even half as a starter.

They'll win more than 30 barring a Wemby injury tbh

Even if CP0 only plays half the year, all of these starting lineup combos are significant upgrades over the Point Sochan/Keldon/Champ/Collins experiment for 20 games last year:
-CP3 + Barnes/Castle
-Tre/Castle + Barnes/Castle

djohn2oo8

07-09-2024, 09:27 AM

They'll win more than 30 barring a Wemby injury tbh

Even if CP0 only plays half the year, all of these starting lineup combos are significant upgrades over the Point Sochan/Keldon/Champ/Collins experiment for 20 games last year:
-CP3 + Barnes/Castle
-Tre/Castle + Barnes/Castle
Yes, however players don’t improve by themselves alone. If Pop isn’t committed to teaching and developing these guys, lineups won’t matter as much. Any bad habits developed last season, Pop and his staff need to correct them this season. Barnes is a good acquisition. Definitely not sold on Paul at this stage of his career. He can’t beat his man, no explosiveness. Gonna need to run a lot of motion for him to get Victor open looks.

Seventyniner

07-09-2024, 09:30 AM

exstatic

07-09-2024, 09:49 AM

People think Paul being bought out or traded is a given, I don’t. I think he’s exhausted from the ring chasing tbh. He will find more meaning passing the torch to young guys here as he ends his career, IMO.

Not a given, but based on the actual one year contract, it seems like it may have been discussed. That one year deal gives him absolute trade veto power. It also seems like if he were going to stay, they would have structured it as a 1+1 with a sweetener for next year if he stayed all year, or even an option to return.

SpursFan86

07-09-2024, 09:50 AM

Yes, however players don’t improve by themselves alone. If Pop isn’t committed to teaching and developing these guys, lineups won’t matter as much. Any bad habits developed last season, Pop and his staff need to correct them this season. Barnes is a good acquisition. Definitely not sold on Paul at this stage of his career. He can’t beat his man, no explosiveness. Gonna need to run a lot of motion for him to get Victor open looks.

I really think a lot of it is addition by subtraction. Just going to blurt out a bunch of things hurting us last year:

- We spent a chunk of the season having Sochan play PG which was obviously a terrible fit
- Branham and Wesley were combining to average 35 mpg and were statistically two of the worst players in the league
- Champagnie is a solid guy for spot minutes, but was being asked to start and play 20+ mpg
- For the first half of the year, the team clearly had no idea how to play alongside Wemby (+ he was at his rawest)
- Kinda goes with the point above, but for the first part of the season they were playing Wemby at PF a bunch (not ideal)

So when we’re talking about CP3/Barnes/Castle, it’s really important to consider the context. CP3 and Castle don’t need to be all-stars to be a major upgrade over Branham and Wesley. Barnes doesn’t need to be amazing to be an upgrade over being forced to play Champagnie 20+ mpg.

I truly think that even if Wemby/Vassell/Sochan/Branham don’t improve at all + CP3/Barnes are around the level they were at last year + Castle is a non-factor as a rookie then the Spurs will still be knocking on the door of 30 wins. That’s close to the worst case scenario ignoring injuries IMO.

Start to throw in a couple of those guys improving, or Wemby taking a massive leap, or CP3/Barnes having a revival in a new situation…35-40 wins absolutely becomes possible. As you get into that 38-40 win territory it becomes less likely because that that point you need lots of those things I just mentioned to happen. But if only one or 2 of those things becomes true they’re still a 32-35 win team IMO.

Arguendo

07-09-2024, 09:55 AM

https://x.com/KCJHoop/status/1810462580156104877
Yeah they’re gonna close that loophole, a top55 projected has more chance to hit than that guy had to stick.
great touch!!

exstatic

07-09-2024, 10:03 AM

I really think a lot of it is addition by subtraction. Just going to blurt out a bunch of things hurting us last year:

- We spent a chunk of the season having Sochan play PG which was obviously a terrible fit
- Branham and Wesley were combining to average 35 mpg and were statistically two of the worst players in the league
- Champagnie is a solid guy for spot minutes, but was being asked to start and play 20+ mpg
- For the first half of the year, the team clearly had no idea how to play alongside Wemby (+ he was at his rawest)
- Kinda goes with the point above, but for the first part of the season they were playing Wemby at PF a bunch (not ideal)

So when we’re talking about CP3/Barnes/Castle, it’s really important to consider the context. CP3 and Castle don’t need to be all-stars to be a major upgrade over Branham and Wesley. Barnes doesn’t need to be amazing to be an upgrade over being forced to play Champagnie 20+ mpg.

I truly think that even if Wemby/Vassell/Sochan/Branham don’t improve at all + CP3/Barnes are around the level they were at last year + Castle is a non-factor as a rookie then the Spurs will still be knocking on the door of 30 wins. That’s close to the worst case scenario ignoring injuries IMO.

Start to throw in a couple of those guys improving, or Wemby taking a massive leap, or CP3/Barnes having a revival in a new situation…35-40 wins absolutely becomes possible. As you get into that 38-40 win territory it becomes less likely because that that point you need lots of those things I just mentioned to happen. But if only one or 2 of those things becomes true they’re still a 32-35 win team IMO.

There have been arguments here about whether we were tanking last year, but if you were on the YES side of that, just taking the proverbial foot off the brake ought to be good enough for 30 wins. We should also pick up some cheap wins from the armada of tanking teams.

exstatic

07-09-2024, 10:05 AM

Yeah they’re gonna close that loophole, a top55 projected has more chance to hit than that guy had to stick.
great touch!!

They always do that after the Spurs leverage something. The trade/cut/return thing went on for YEARS, but when we did it with Brent Barry, they closed the loop the next year.

Arguendo

07-09-2024, 10:10 AM

imo the playing for Pop angle also matters, though not as much.
I think Paul wants to be a coach, I think he views Pop as one of the best ever & this as a coaching internship under a great. Also think Pop has lost almost all his fire, but Paul has it & will get onto guys the way Pop did in the 00’s.

Arguendo

07-09-2024, 10:19 AM

I think Paul wants to be a coach, I think he views Pop as one of the best ever & this as a coaching internship under a great. Also think Pop has lost almost all his fire, but Paul has it & will get onto guys the way Pop did in the 00’s.
If this is true & Paul is done ring chasing as a player, he may have just made the best possible move to set himself up to ring as a coach. Learn from the best, go play with the best youngster/foundational piece in league, move to bench as assistant & position yourself to take over when Pop retires in 3 yrs as Wemby approaches his prime.

J_Paco

07-09-2024, 11:51 AM

I looked it up, and Blake Wesley is nowhere to be found on the assist percentage leaders list, because he hasn't played enough to qualify.

His assist to turnover ratio is pretty good because getting rejected in the paint just counts as a shot attempt and not a turnover.

I meant he's second place on the team, not league wide that was my bad.

Your second point is completely untrue, he raised his fielding goal percentage in the paint (62.4% last season compared to the ghastly 51.2% his rookie season) and became adapt at the 'drop-off' pass inside. Blake was only blocked 15 times in 61 games last season. Which ranked 10th on the team, while Sochan was blocked the most.

He still has a long ways to go as an offensive player (self-creation and perimeter scoring need to take big leaps for him to stick around long-term), but his playmaking and defense improved last season.

Some of y'all just get a kick out of dogging out anyone not named [insert best player here], which is fine but a weird way to root for a team.

LeBowen

07-09-2024, 11:54 AM

If this is true & Paul is done ring chasing as a player, he may have just made the best possible move to set himself up to ring as a coach. Learn from the best, go play with the best youngster/foundational piece in league, move to bench as assistant & position yourself to take over when Pop retires in 3 yrs as Wemby approaches his prime.

Or he can pull a Kevin Willis and play until he's way past it.
I know it sounds unrealistic, but I can see CP3 staying here for longer.

24-25: Starter.
25-26: Castle's backup.
26-27: Third stringer and player/coach, hoping Wemby carries him to a ring.

Looking around, obviously things change during the season, but not many actual contenders will need a backup point guard, even if his name is Chris Paul.
If we assume that 8 teams are legit contenders (Denver, OKC, Minny, Mavs, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, NYK), I'd say that only Denver needs a legit backup point guard, others have different needs when it comes to ring chasing veterans.

scott

07-09-2024, 01:29 PM

I wonder what SpursTalk would have been saying after we signed Dominique Wilkins.

bluebellmaniac

07-09-2024, 01:57 PM

I wonder what SpursTalk would have been saying after we signed Dominique Wilkins.

They'd be brutal. He's 64 yrs old. Don't think he's gonna get us many wins, but would be good for the tank.

scott

07-09-2024, 02:59 PM

They'd be brutal. He's 64 yrs old. Don't think he's gonna get us many wins, but would be good for the tank.

I honestly don't ever remember how I felt about it at the time. While we did end up "tanking" that year, that wasn't the plan going into the season, as we didn't know those injuries would happen. Kind of goes to show how stupid our FO was back then. We were coming off a 2nd round playoff loss, only two years removed from the best record in franchise history and a WCF appearance, and our "big move" was signing 37-year old Dominique Wilkins. Honestly it was amazing 'Nique still averaged 18.2 ppg that year.

K...

07-09-2024, 03:11 PM

I honestly don't ever remember how I felt about it at the time. While we did end up "tanking" that year, that wasn't the plan going into the season, as we didn't know those injuries would happen. Kind of goes to show how stupid our FO was back then. We were coming off a 2nd round playoff loss, only two years removed from the best record in franchise history and a WCF appearance, and our "big move" was signing 37-year old Dominique Wilkins. Honestly it was amazing 'Nique still averaged 18.2 ppg that year.

Wtf are you talking about? Wilkins was signed as an injury replaCement for wells everything that went wrong that year. It was less about winning then putting buts into seats. Everyone knew he was washed, do you think he was available for free bc of mass amnesia? .

scott

07-09-2024, 03:17 PM

Wtf are you talking about? Wilkins was signed as an injury replaCement for wells everything that went wrong that year. It was less about winning then putting buts into seats. Everyone knew he was washed, do you think he was available for free bc of mass amnesia? .

Is that what happened? I honestly don't remember - appreciate you correcting the record.

Looks like he was signed on Oct 4, 1996. The first game of the year was on Nov 1. I remember David entering with the season with a back injury that caused him to miss the first 20 or so games, and then he game back for a handful of games and broke his foot. What was the story behind Nique being signed?

He did finish 7th in 6MOY voting that year!

Obstructed_View

07-09-2024, 03:18 PM

I meant he's second place on the team, not league wide that was my bad.

Your second point is completely untrue, he raised his fielding goal percentage in the paint (62.4% last season compared to the ghastly 51.2% his rookie season) and became adapt at the 'drop-off' pass inside. Blake was only blocked 15 times in 61 games last season. Which ranked 10th on the team, while Sochan was blocked the most.

He still has a long ways to go as an offensive player (self-creation and perimeter scoring need to take big leaps for him to stick around long-term), but his playmaking and defense improved last season.

Some of y'all just get a kick out of dogging out anyone not named [insert best player here], which is fine but a weird way to root for a team.

He's second on the team only because they calculate it on the team page. He's not on the league leaders list because the sample size is unreliable. In other words, you can't judge anything off the stat.

He got better as the season wore on but he has not returned to the level he was at prior to his knee injury, which is highly disappointing for those of us who are rooting for his game to catch up to his physical gifts. Thus far, they have not. He needs to come to camp vastly improved as a three point threat, and he needs to have learned a floater and how to draw fouls. His passing, even if it's as good as you think it is, ain't enough to keep him out of China.

scott

07-09-2024, 03:19 PM

I did find this article from the NYT when we signed him. Mentions that we signed him to backup Elliott, but no mention of injuries. https://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/04/sports/dominique-wilkins-joins-the-spurs.html

It was a league min deal, of course.

Arguendo

07-09-2024, 03:38 PM

Or he can pull a Kevin Willis and play until he's way past it.
I know it sounds unrealistic, but I can see CP3 staying here for longer.
…
Looking around, obviously things change during the season, but not many actual contenders will need a backup point guard, even if his name is Chris Paul.
If we assume that 8 teams are legit contenders (Denver, OKC, Minny, Mavs, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, NYK), I'd say that only Denver needs a legit backup point guard, others have different needs when it comes to ring chasing veterans.
Good point & (depending how fast his schtick gets old) that may not be bad. CP3 has declined most everywhere, but he is still & will remain a great passer largely based on vision/understanding. He was 12th in NBA Ass/game, 28th overall sharing with Curry. His teammates will have to make the right moves cuz Paul can’t simply create those angles anymore, but he can put the ball in the right spot.

Re:PG, that’s definitely a who knows, but I think 37 Conley is the only true NBA PG rostered right now. They lost KA who did a lot of that, & maybe Dilly proves an NBA PG, but a champ contender relying on an old Conley & maybe a PG/untested 20y/o Dilly is scary. 2nd apron, so it has to be a min guy or a salary dump (and can’t aggregate outgoing players). I don’t want to help them, but Tre would b a great fit there. Dependable backstop, his D can be covered, expiring K. Prob is they’re $17M over the 2nd apron, so basically have to move McDaniels, KAT, or Gobert which prob drops them from contention. Very tough spot for them, unless I’m missing someone Conley can’t go down or decline, Dilly basically has to work out as a Rook PG, a 28y/o who played in Serbia last yr shocks or Ants playing a lot of PG.

TD 21

07-09-2024, 04:11 PM

Or he can pull a Kevin Willis and play until he's way past it.
I know it sounds unrealistic, but I can see CP3 staying here for longer.

24-25: Starter.
25-26: Castle's backup.
26-27: Third stringer and player/coach, hoping Wemby carries him to a ring.

Looking around, obviously things change during the season, but not many actual contenders will need a backup point guard, even if his name is Chris Paul.
If we assume that 8 teams are legit contenders (Denver, OKC, Minny, Mavs, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, NYK), I'd say that only Denver needs a legit backup point guard, others have different needs when it comes to ring chasing veterans.

Good point.

The Nuggets are supposedly the only team (inexplicably) interested in Westbrook, so he'll probably eventually be traded to them. If Lowry re-signs with the 76ers (Suns also in the mix), that takes them out.

The Thunder could make sense, but probably only for non Gilgeous-Alexander minutes and he's not interested in a bit part.

For someone who's done a lot of bouncing around in recent years, fleeing to an L.A. team, who aren't guaranteed to be markedly better than the Spurs at this point, doesn't make much sense.

J_Paco

07-09-2024, 05:59 PM

He's second on the team only because they calculate it on the team page. He's not on the league leaders list because the sample size is unreliable. In other words, you can't judge anything off the stat.

The one argument against his improvement is can it carry over and be something he utilizes permanently. That we might not see unless he beats out Branham as the backup SG, or injuries put Paul, Jones and/or Castle on the shelf.

He got better as the season wore on but he has not returned to the level he was at prior to his knee injury, which is highly disappointing for those of us who are rooting for his game to catch up to his physical gifts. Thus far, they have not. He needs to come to camp vastly improved as a three point threat, and he needs to have learned a floater and how to draw fouls. His passing, even if it's as good as you think it is, ain't enough to keep him out of China.

He appeared in 61 games and tallied nearly 900 minutes (876), and he was still second on the team when adjust on a per 36 minutes (6.8) and 100 possessions (9.0), so his numbers still hold up.

I agree that he needs to improve with his perimeter jumper and self-creation, so not sure why you brought that up. And that he'll need to show a lot more on offense (as scorer) to have a long-term role.

Obstructed_View

07-09-2024, 06:12 PM

He appeared in 61 games and tallied nearly 900 minutes (876), and he was still second on the team when adjust on a per 36 minutes (6.8) and 100 possessions (9.0), so his numbers still hold up.

I agree that he needs to improve with his perimeter jumper and self-creation, so not sure why you brought that up. And that he'll need to show a lot more on offense (as scorer) to have a long-term role.
Well, he can't fucking pass. Being second on a team that is famous for freezing Victor out isn't proof that he's useful.

spurraider21

07-09-2024, 07:01 PM

After checking the CBA, Spurs team salary is allowed to be $250K over the cap after the trade.

By looking at Realgm trade machine (they have access to the NBA salary database), it seems that Paul salary is around $10.5M.

So:
- If Barnes waive his trade bonus, waiving Bassey should be enough to do the trade.
- If Barnes keep his trade bonus, waiving Bassey and salary dumping Cissoko will work.
.
:lol tbh

1810823298265080042

shoulda given CP0 another 6k imo

J_Paco

07-09-2024, 11:52 PM

Well, he can't fucking pass. Being second on a team that is famous for freezing Victor out isn't proof that he's useful.

Lord, can't argue against the facts and statistics that validate my opinion so go with the 'Victor didn't get the ball/was frozen out" cliche.

I can't find the official numbers, but I'm pretty certain that Wesley played a majority of his minutes with Collins at center. We agree on his deficiencies, but I think he made solid improvements in playmaking and his overall decision making, but want to harp on this false perception that he's not a good playmaker.

Anyway, have a good Summer and hopefully either Malaki or Blake improve enough to be the long-term "ish" SG.