Official 2024 Men's Olympic Basketball Tournament Thread

[Limguogolo]

”Condescending" is to assume I don't know the surface level answer to a question. There's a solid French representation on this forum. A lot of you are great posters, but you guys aren't the sole source I have for FNT team news to leak in. RGM also has a large population of posters from France and who follow FIBA more consistently. They were pretty active talking about it when it happened.

I know about the FNT shit. Otherwise I would've been utterly confused by the boos rather than criticizing the imperialist bent that they have. I admit that comes from an American perspective where we have citizens play for other national teams all the time. (And we DEFINITELY have guys commit and then back out.) Becky played for Russia. Do you know who's mad about that? Certain assholes and that's it. Embiid has lived a colorful life, but his personal views on identity and citizenship may be more complicated than the average American or French person has experienced. I wouldn't presume to say he lied on his quest for French citizenship even though he obviously could have.

"But when decided to play for the USANT, who didn't need him." Like the FNT doesn't also have a ton of talent, especially at center. I bristle at the idea trying to force him to consider Cameroon his home. I don't think he should've played for them if he didn't want to. It doesn't seem like the FNT is therefore any more of a "noble" decision than the USANT would've been. If Teeds likens signing up with the USANT as starting on the two-yard line, the FNT is starting at the 10-yard line. Most would've expected the USA to make the gold medal match without him, and France did make it without him. Neither side was the "do it the hard way" option.



I think this is more the heart of the cringe for me. Embiid is not "francophone" because he's French. He's not "francophone" because he moved to France and got infused with the culture. He's not "francophone" because Cameroon and France are sister nations with cultural exchange. He's "francophone" because his nation was colonized by France and is still forced into an exploitative economic relationship with France under penalty of military intervention. No, I don't hold average French people responsible for that. I have no issue with French people and actually like a lot of the music and media coming out of the country nowadays. But in terms of what the government and state department did and continues to do in the "francophone" world, it's just a down-low version of what the US does all around the world. It's just as heinous and self-serving, and the feelings of the people getting exploited toward the dominant cultures are just as complicated and varied.

I don't know how every French person or French STer feels about their country's imperialist actions throughout the world. Doubtless they have insights and nuances into it that I don't. I have to believe a lot of folks in that crowd booing are aware of the situation and even sympathetic. But dogging guy from a neo-colonized region for waffling about his French culture before deciding to play for the country he's lived in since he was a teenager is peak. Feeling betrayed because a guy decided to join the other stacked team in the tournament is cringe. Booing a person constantly in the Olympics is peak cringe. It's all cringe shit, and I'm glad Embiid was able to shake it off and play well the last couple of games.

Sorry to say it, but you say a lot of nonsense regarding the perception of “Francophones” in the world or regarding so-called French imperialism. French state colonialism in reality only concerns Caledonia which is a French territory but where there are still hints of colonialism (talking about “imperialism” for France does not make much sense, it is no longer an empire for a long time).

The relationship with African countries is specific to each one. Historically, there are territories (which have become countries since their independence) which were exploited for their resources and there is a territory (Algeria) which was a colonial land. If certain colonial relations persist between France and certain African countries, it is mainly economic where corruption allows large French companies to exploit the countries' resources. The French state has long participated in this, but fortunately, the situation is tending to improve. But this is the economic situation which partly explains why certain former colonized countries have never known or been able to develop democratic systems.

Alongside these political problems, there are cultural relations. And at this level, in the same way as Quebec or Lebanon, it is not a colonial relationship, but a cultural relationship linked to the French-speaking. Speaking the same language creates proximity. This does not make French speakers French: have we ever seen Quebecers claiming French nationality? No. We just love our language, like others love the diversity in English languages ​​or in languages.

No one in France has ever claimed that Embiid was more likely to play for the FNT because he was French-speaking. He is Cameroonian, his first vocation would have been to play for Cameroon. He left the country when he was a teenager and plays for the country that welcomed him, it's natural that he decides to play for it and asks to play for the USA. If he is whistled, it is not because he refused to play for France or because he disappointed us, he is whistled because he is ridiculous. The public laughs at him. He doesn't ask for anything from her. He would be Cameroonian-French, he would know this French taste for making fun of clowns, for a form of teasing. I remember that he was even mocked by his own Team USA teammates by asking him to “give back his passport”, proof that teasing clowns is not specific to French culture.

Another possible proximity is the African roots of many French people. There are many of us in this case, and it is above all a form of pride when it is not in everyday life a scandalous reason for racism. Because, as the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games proved, the French spirit is diversity. The best-selling French-speaking singer in the world is African and sang with the Republican Guard in front of the Académie Française, a centuries-old institution dedicated to the preservation of the French language. This is a diversity symbol. Embiid has nothing to do with this because he is not Franco-Cameroonian (except through his passport), but American-Cameroonian. He does not have this shared culture that some members of his family living in France have, certainly.

Parker was French because he grew up in France. Tarpey arrived in France as a minor American player and took a liking to reconnecting with his French roots. Kenny Atkinson played and coached in France, he is a Francophile and French-speaking American, and that largely explains his choice to assist Vincent Collet. Gabby Williams has French grandparents and speaks French perfectly, and has always wished for the French team. Embiid is far from these “international” profiles, choosing to play for France. He is an opportunist, an individualist, and in this, we can say that he is fundamentally American, and the USA should be proud that he carries US values ​​so well. USA like wall; France prefers bridges to cultures.

There is something quite tasty about seeing yourself given lessons in imperialism by an American. Stop believing that all nations are destined to develop an empire like the USA. France has not had an empire for a long time, on the other hand, it is a culture, and a language, of which we are all proud because it conveys ideas of diversity. Ultimately the complete opposite of imperialism.

[TheBallsbreakers]

"Condescending" is to assume I don't know the surface level answer to a question. There's a solid French representation on this forum. A lot of you are great posters, but you guys aren't the sole source I have for FNT team news to leak in. RGM also has a large population of posters from France and who follow FIBA more consistently. They were pretty active talking about it when it happened.

I know about the FNT shit. Otherwise I would've been utterly confused by the boos rather than criticizing the imperialist bent that they have. I admit that comes from an American perspective where we have citizens play for other national teams all the time. (And we DEFINITELY have guys commit and then back out.) Becky played for Russia. Do you know who's mad about that? Certain assholes and that's it. Embiid has lived a colorful life, but his personal views on identity and citizenship may be more complicated than the average American or French person has experienced. I wouldn't presume to say he lied on his quest for French citizenship even though he obviously could have.

"But when decided to play for the USANT, who didn't need him." Like the FNT doesn't also have a ton of talent, especially at center. I bristle at the idea trying to force him to consider Cameroon his home. I don't think he should've played for them if he didn't want to. It doesn't seem like the FNT is therefore any more of a "noble" decision than the USANT would've been. If Teeds likens signing up with the USANT as starting on the two-yard line, the FNT is starting at the 10-yard line. Most would've expected the USA to make the gold medal match without him, and France did make it without him. Neither side was the "do it the hard way" option.



I think this is more the heart of the cringe for me. Embiid is not "francophone" because he's French. He's not "francophone" because he moved to France and got infused with the culture. He's not "francophone" because Cameroon and France are sister nations with cultural exchange. He's "francophone" because his nation was colonized by France and is still forced into an exploitative economic relationship with France under penalty of military intervention. No, I don't hold average French people responsible for that. I have no issue with French people and actually like a lot of the music and media coming out of the country nowadays. But in terms of what the government and state department did and continues to do in the "francophone" world, it's just a down-low version of what the US does all around the world. It's just as heinous and self-serving, and the feelings of the people getting exploited toward the dominant cultures are just as complicated and varied.

I don't know how every French person or French STer feels about their country's imperialist actions throughout the world. Doubtless they have insights and nuances into it that I don't. I have to believe a lot of folks in that crowd booing are aware of the situation and even sympathetic. But dogging guy from a neo-colonized region for waffling about his French culture before deciding to play for the country he's lived in since he was a teenager is peak. Feeling betrayed because a guy decided to join the other stacked team in the tournament is cringe. Booing a person constantly in the Olympics is peak cringe. It's all cringe shit, and I'm glad Embiid was able to shake it off and play well the last couple of games.

You're one self-righteous chap, aren't you.

[Ice009]

So where did Joel grow up when he was young? Did he spend some time in France as a youth?

Also, what time are the Gold and Bronze medal games?

[Splits]

Sorry to say it, but you say a lot of nonsense regarding the perception of “Francophones” in the world or regarding so-called French imperialism. French state colonialism in reality only concerns Caledonia which is a French territory but where there are still hints of colonialism (talking about “imperialism” for France does not make much sense, it is no longer an empire for a long time).

The relationship with African countries is specific to each one. Historically, there are territories (which have become countries since their independence) which were exploited for their resources and there is a territory (Algeria) which was a colonial land. If certain colonial relations persist between France and certain African countries, it is mainly economic where corruption allows large French companies to exploit the countries' resources. The French state has long participated in this, but fortunately, the situation is tending to improve. But this is the economic situation which partly explains why certain former colonized countries have never known or been able to develop democratic systems.

Alongside these political problems, there are cultural relations. And at this level, in the same way as Quebec or Lebanon, it is not a colonial relationship, but a cultural relationship linked to the French-speaking. Speaking the same language creates proximity. This does not make French speakers French: have we ever seen Quebecers claiming French nationality? No. We just love our language, like others love the diversity in English languages ​​or in languages.

No one in France has ever claimed that Embiid was more likely to play for the FNT because he was French-speaking. He is Cameroonian, his first vocation would have been to play for Cameroon. He left the country when he was a teenager and plays for the country that welcomed him, it's natural that he decides to play for it and asks to play for the USA. If he is whistled, it is not because he refused to play for France or because he disappointed us, he is whistled because he is ridiculous. The public laughs at him. He doesn't ask for anything from her. He would be Cameroonian-French, he would know this French taste for making fun of clowns, for a form of teasing. I remember that he was even mocked by his own Team USA teammates by asking him to “give back his passport”, proof that teasing clowns is not specific to French culture.

Another possible proximity is the African roots of many French people. There are many of us in this case, and it is above all a form of pride when it is not in everyday life a scandalous reason for racism. Because, as the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games proved, the French spirit is diversity. The best-selling French-speaking singer in the world is African and sang with the Republican Guard in front of the Académie Française, a centuries-old institution dedicated to the preservation of the French language. This is a diversity symbol. Embiid has nothing to do with this because he is not Franco-Cameroonian (except through his passport), but American-Cameroonian. He does not have this shared culture that some members of his family living in France have, certainly.

Parker was French because he grew up in France. Tarpey arrived in France as a minor American player and took a liking to reconnecting with his French roots. Kenny Atkinson played and coached in France, he is a Francophile and French-speaking American, and that largely explains his choice to assist Vincent Collet. Gabby Williams has French grandparents and speaks French perfectly, and has always wished for the French team. Embiid is far from these “international” profiles, choosing to play for France. He is an opportunist, an individualist, and in this, we can say that he is fundamentally American, and the USA should be proud that he carries US values ​​so well. USA like wall; France prefers bridges to cultures.

There is something quite tasty about seeing yourself given lessons in imperialism by an American. Stop believing that all nations are destined to develop an empire like the USA. France has not had an empire for a long time, on the other hand, it is a culture, and a language, of which we are all proud because it conveys ideas of diversity. Ultimately the complete opposite of imperialism.

And this is why nobody likes Frenchies. Your screed and history re-write is obnoxious at best. Now tell us why there is no such thing as "African-French" like there is "African-American". Hint: because French people hate blacks even though they occupied their countries for decades

[Splits]

France has not had an empire for a long time, on the other hand, it is a culture, and a language, of which we are all proud because it conveys ideas of diversity.

:lmao this has to be the stupidest thing I ever read on this board. French people are some of the most racist people on this planet, it's not even really a debate.

[Chinook]

Sorry to say it, but you say a lot of nonsense regarding the perception of “Francophones” in the world or regarding so-called French imperialism. French state colonialism in reality only concerns Caledonia which is a French territory but where there are still hints of colonialism (talking about “imperialism” for France does not make much sense, it is no longer an empire for a long time)

...

There is something quite tasty about seeing yourself given lessons in imperialism by an American. Stop believing that all nations are destined to develop an empire like the USA. France has not had an empire for a long time, on the other hand, it is a culture, and a language, of which we are all proud because it conveys ideas of diversity. Ultimately the complete opposite of imperialism.

Oh wow, so you DON'T know what your country does overseas. You really do think France is just "friends" with all these poor third-world countries and that their shared language is a sign of brotherhood and not the mark of their oppression. Why is French the educated language of these nations? Why is English the lingua franca of the world? The answer is not that those languages are so great that everyone wants to preserve them.

And yes, the US also has black people in high-culture positions. Hell, a person of South-Asian/African descent might be the next president. The current UK PM is of Afro-Indian descent. None of that means those countries don't do imperialist shit or that the fact that so much talent from other nations flocks to them is a happy accident.

If you seriously believe the things you wrote, it's a sign that France is far more successful in selling the US's beard status to its people to cover up its own issues than I realized. France is a top-five most imperialist nation on the planet. Not in the past. Literally right now. I'm not even getting into their habit of claiming far-off territories as being part of their country. That's old imperialism and only some nations like Russia are playing that game at the moment. I'm talking about neo-colonialism, the type of military adventurism, exploitative trade deals and "masters of the universe" shit the US uses to control the world. If you don't know that your country is one of the biggest players of that game, you haven't looked into French foreign policy very deeply.

[TD 21]

In a way, I get it. If you think of ST as basically co-workers shooting the shit in a breakroom, then someone sliding in there tossing out long-ass responses for why your opinion is wrong, it can come across as that person "doing the most" as some would say. A lot of people don't give their opinions with the intention to defend it. They kind of want to just say their piece and go back to work. And if someone is handing them a book report challenging what they consider to be an intuitive or consensus stance, it feels condescending or obnoxious. Of course there are some of us who want to put a bit more effort in and don't mind getting into the weeds or fending off multiple posters at the same time. I think ST has space for both, but it can be jarring for those high-engagement and low-engagement posters to disagree.

I think there's something said about butting heads with someone so frequently and intensely that you get a sense of each other's lines and views and can sort of appreciate where you agree and disagree. Despite Teeds' comments, I would 100-percent put him in that category, along with DAFfy. I think you and I gas each other up so much that folks might forget the debates we had during last season. But it's fun, man. What's the point of having folks hang around a message board for a decade or two if we aren't going to get into it every once in a while?

This is all well and good, but whether you mean to or not, you absolutely come off that way . . . and so do I.

I'll let you in on a little secret: It wasn't really intentional at first and oftentimes sarcasm either getting lost in translation or going bad, but at a certain point I decided I'd play into the perception because of how easy/fun it was to get a rise out of so many with something as harmless as an emoji (which I never use outside of here), repeating something that's proven to have them fly off the handle, dismissing their take or utilizing obscure words.

Despite the perception, I don't take any of this nonsense seriously in terms of getting mad or being sensitive. If I didn't enjoy these debates, I wouldn't bother.



I do feel like Spurs fans more than most fanbases should be able to appreciate this version of the USANT. The idea of three old guys showing they still had what it takes to reach the mountaintop. It gives me 2014 vibes. No, they don't have that "Beautiful Game" chemistry, but there's a level of poignancy in seeing old masters at work one last time. I've talked before about how there's a wound in the NBA from the 2010-2015 drafts being so shitty. We're seeing that now with the 2028 version of this team projecting to be so much more limited. Perhaps there will be some surprise members that fix those issues. But the NBA's upcoming lack of domestic superstars has never been more apparent.

Personally, I'm really glad to see these guys get to the gold medal match. I would've been happy to see Kawhi get there with them, though I'm elated that Derrick White gets a chance to compete after putting in his time with the USANT during less important off-seasons. I'm not the biggest Embiid fan, but I'm glad he got to give the middle finger to a French crowd that felt entitled to his services just because their nation had colonized his nation. I'm glad to see how elated everyone was after the final buzzer. I'm happy to see a dude with a gray beard go out there and be the consensus best player in the tournament at basically 40 years old.

It's just cool, man. We're not going to see another Olympics like this for a long time.

Sure they do, when they're surrounded by 9 other top (at worst) 40 players in the world, against teams who usually have 0-2 players capable of receiving consideration/making the U.S. team.

I'm generally for the "one last ride" storyline, but these guys are the antithesis of the biggest three in terms of likability.

I don't get the Scumbag line and was going to excoriate you for the Embiid one, but I see Pauleta14 beat me to the punch and you're now knee deep with some of the French posters, so I'll leave you to it. :lmao

[MultiTroll]

If you had to point towards one thing...

Serbia was 15/30 from three to finish the 3rd quarter.

They finished the game 15/39.

Couple that with an Embiid 7-0 run in the 4th, and Curry/KD/LeBron all going HAM down the stretch...that was basically the game.
Saw it.
Concur.

[Pauleta14]

Bro, all the matchups have been unfavorable for three games.^^ Being smart, that sounds too Collet for my taste. They must remain “racailles” and play with more intensity than the USA team.

Sur un malentendu, everything's possible.

I agree we have to make it dirty af :lol

but realitically I see the US press our guards all the time and go early at Wemby to put him in foul trouble

1 unrealistic scenario that would be hillarious would be Gobert having the game of his life

[Splits]

Oh wow, so you DON'T know what your country does overseas. You really do think France is just "friends" with all these poor third-world countries and that their shared language is a sign of brotherhood and not the mark of their oppression. Why is French the educated language of these nations? Why is English the lingua franca of the world? The answer is not that those languages are so great that everyone wants to preserve them.

And yes, the US also has black people in high-culture positions. Hell, a person of South-Asian/African descent might be the next president. The current UK PM is of Afro-Indian descent. None of that means those countries don't do imperialist shit or that the fact that so much talent from other nations flocks to them is a happy accident.

If you seriously believe the things you wrote, it's a sign that France is far more successful in selling the US's beard status to its people to cover up its own issues than I realized. France is a top-five most imperialist nation on the planet. Not in the past. Literally right now. I'm not even getting into their habit of claiming far-off territories as being part of their country. That's old imperialism and only some nations like Russia are playing that game at the moment. I'm talking about neo-colonialism, the type of military adventurism, exploitative trade deals and "masters of the universe" shit the US uses to control the world. If you don't know that your country is one of the biggest players of that game, you haven't looked into French foreign policy very deeply.

Smartest thing I've read in quite some time

[Pauleta14]

:cry but Cameroon is not qualified :cry so instead of helping my birth country I prefer go to Paris in a 5 stars hotel :cry

He's such an idiot tbh

He'd have been an African hero beyond Cameroon

+ Imagine his association with Siakam...

[mikec]

Incredible two semi final games. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. that USA-Serbia game delivered and more. On to the gold medal game.

[Chinook]

This is all well and good, but whether you mean to or not, you absolutely come off that way . . . and so do I.

Eh, what's condescending to a person depends on how they interpret what's being said. If I break something down to first principles and build the argument back up from there, sure, you can take that to mean I'm assuming you're stupid. Or you can take that to mean I'm putting in the effort to show the whole of my reasoning so you can determine where you disagree. Trying to dismiss a person's argument as condescending is a red herring. Of course if someone doesn't want to get into the weeds, I can understand their annoyance. That doesn't mean there's an issue that needs to be fixed. The Wemby shit rose to the point of being a genuine conspiracy theory. No, I don't feel the need to pull back on my firm dismissal of some of the lazier and weaker aspects of that conspiracy just because those pushing them didn't want to defend themselves.

That doesn't mean that I don't care about when my posting style is criticized in good faith. That's happened, and I have adjusted. But being "condescending" or writing too long of posts are way too subjective.

[Pauleta14]

"Condescending" is to assume I don't know the surface level answer to a question. There's a solid French representation on this forum. A lot of you are great posters, but you guys aren't the sole source I have for FNT team news to leak in. RGM also has a large population of posters from France and who follow FIBA more consistently. They were pretty active talking about it when it happened.

I know about the FNT shit. Otherwise I would've been utterly confused by the boos rather than criticizing the imperialist bent that they have. I admit that comes from an American perspective where we have citizens play for other national teams all the time. (And we DEFINITELY have guys commit and then back out.) Becky played for Russia. Do you know who's mad about that? Certain assholes and that's it. Embiid has lived a colorful life, but his personal views on identity and citizenship may be more complicated than the average American or French person has experienced. I wouldn't presume to say he lied on his quest for French citizenship even though he obviously could have.

"But when decided to play for the USANT, who didn't need him." Like the FNT doesn't also have a ton of talent, especially at center. I bristle at the idea trying to force him to consider Cameroon his home. I don't think he should've played for them if he didn't want to. It doesn't seem like the FNT is therefore any more of a "noble" decision than the USANT would've been. If Teeds likens signing up with the USANT as starting on the two-yard line, the FNT is starting at the 10-yard line. Most would've expected the USA to make the gold medal match without him, and France did make it without him. Neither side was the "do it the hard way" option.



I think this is more the heart of the cringe for me. Embiid is not "francophone" because he's French. He's not "francophone" because he moved to France and got infused with the culture. He's not "francophone" because Cameroon and France are sister nations with cultural exchange. He's "francophone" because his nation was colonized by France and is still forced into an exploitative economic relationship with France under penalty of military intervention. No, I don't hold average French people responsible for that. I have no issue with French people and actually like a lot of the music and media coming out of the country nowadays. But in terms of what the government and state department did and continues to do in the "francophone" world, it's just a down-low version of what the US does all around the world. It's just as heinous and self-serving, and the feelings of the people getting exploited toward the dominant cultures are just as complicated and varied.

I don't know how every French person or French STer feels about their country's imperialist actions throughout the world. Doubtless they have insights and nuances into it that I don't. I have to believe a lot of folks in that crowd booing are aware of the situation and even sympathetic. But dogging guy from a neo-colonized region for waffling about his French culture before deciding to play for the country he's lived in since he was a teenager is peak. Feeling betrayed because a guy decided to join the other stacked team in the tournament is cringe. Booing a person constantly in the Olympics is peak cringe. It's all cringe shit, and I'm glad Embiid was able to shake it off and play well the last couple of games.

You whole post is a collection of cliches and lack of knowledge of the situation and France's history. You should stick to NBA'S cba and contracts situations...

By itself it speaks volume of the condescendance I've been talking about (thx for illustrating my point tbh :lol)

You clearly aren't aware of the letter Embiid sent to the president nor that France didn't ask him anything contrary to US who ACTIVELY recruited him. (France, as everyone can see didn't need him to start with)

You don't seem to know much about the French ppl nor about its diversity or that France had former champions with both french and cameroon origins like Yannick Noah (father of Joakim and winner of Rolland Garros) or plenty of connections that lead hisorically to popular support for african francophone teams (maghreb or sub-saharian countries)

You bring colonialist cliches when we're in 2024 (ffs just find an update) and the topic has nothing to do with politicians but with the people and specifically the Parisians

FYI there's a world between the top and the bottom of the pyramid in France. Politicians don't represent the people much, it's a networking class that usually come from the same social background. So acting like the french ppl have a colonialistic culture is insanely stupid and sign of lack of knowledge on the topic

I'm assuming you're american, aren't u? It's makes your post even more ironic considering the cliches you refer about France's past are litterally your country's present REALITY. That doesn't mean one should consider any US citizen or American culture or people as imperialists or war crimes appologists.

You probably know the Hisory of your country well enough to understand how complex and nunace an analysis needs to be, don't you? Try apply that to the other countries and people then.

As for the initial topic of discussion, whether you accept/understand it or not, there's litterally zero emotion feeding the french boos, zero hate, it's a massive collective troll job that comes from the football stadium culture (that clearly is stranger to u in the US) and more importantly A RESPONSE to Embiid's ridiculous behaviour.

In french we say "when u want to kill your dog, you say it has rabies" = When u want to defend Embiid, you'll find any BS scenario that fits your goal

[Chinook]

You whole post is a collection of cliches and lack of knowledge of the situation and France's history. You should stick to NBA'S cba and contracts situations...

That you think this is just a matter of history and not current actions is a sign that you lack knowledge. I seriously thought American people were sheltered, but the posters here makes me think that their country might even be worse off in that regard.

And yes, I'm American. My whole point is that France IS playing the same game the US is playing, just with fewer pieces. There's no gotcha on this. I'm saying they're both bad, right now, as in they're both currently doing imperialist shit right now. You seem to not know that, and it's concerning.


In french we say "when u want to kill your dog, you say it has rabies" = When u want to defend Embiid, you'll find any BS scenario that fits your goal

And no, I don't really like Embiid. He ended Danny Green's career with his stupid flopping. That crime would cut through any country or jersey. If the crowd was booing him for that, I'd be all for it.

[Pauleta14]

So where did Joel grow up when he was young? Did he spend some time in France as a youth?

Also, what time are the Gold and Bronze medal games?

Just holidays and familly visits at best

He has some of his (extended?) familly living in Paris's subburd

He took a business decision and he has the right to but anyone witnessing can only laugh about the lack of authenticity

[Brazil]

Smartest thing I've read in quite some time

:lol you aren't reading too much lately then :lol

Chinook explaining French geopolitics and culture to French people is quite hilarious... he must be an expert in international relations and have a doctorat in political science for sure

[Pauleta14]

That you think this is just a matter of history and not current actions is a sign that you lack knowledge. I seriously thought American people were sheltered, but the posters here makes me think that their country might even be worse off in that regard.

And yes, I'm American. My whole point is that France IS playing the same the US is playing. There's no gotcha on this. I'm saying they're both bad, right now, as in they're both currently doing imperialist shit right now. You seem to not know that, and it's concerning.

That's just factually not true and I with others detailled you multiple times WHY...

You can't see that on one side France never initiated anything and on the other the US recruited him...? Same thing for u?

You can't understand the ppl's reaction when they had the opportunity to read the letter Embiid sent? (you need to read that, u clearly havent and it's a massive reason bc the form of the letter is either hillarious or pathetic)

For someone who like to write looooonnng posts, one would think you appreciate nuance, but it's actually an illusion, you're over simplistic and fine enough with the little knowlwdge u have to speak on a topic with certainty.

Not a sign of intelligence. Your lack of humility and overall condescending attitude makes you miss so many things, you'll always be stuck with an average IQ and wrong perception of the world

Try read Descartes or maybe google "cogito ergo sum" :lol

[Brazil]

:lmao this has to be the stupidest thing I ever read on this board. French people are some of the most racist people on this planet, it's not even really a debate.

:lol not sure where this is coming from... a French fucked your wife or something ?

You have racists everywhere and certainly a good amount in France but some of the most racist people in this planet ? :lol no

[Chinook]

:lol you aren't reading too much lately then :lol

Chinook explaining French geopolitics and culture to French people is quite hilarious... he must be an expert in international relations and have a doctorat in political science for sure

It's funny, because I think you would probably find it perfectly viable for non-Americans to explain US foreign policy to Americans or Russian foreign policy to Russians. You know, because other nations have to deal with the foreign policy while the domestic population doesn't. I have to imagine there a ton of memes floating around about how little 'Muricans know about the world. That idea is out there despite the US government being all over the world in everyone's business. So do you think there's something unique to the US that makes their citizens prone to ignorance of what their government does abroad?

[Pauleta14]

:lol you aren't reading too much lately then :lol

Chinook explaining French geopolitics and culture to French people is quite hilarious... he must be an expert in international relations and have a doctorat in political science for sure

He doesn't know much, but that's not the worst part, he's too condescending to better himself.

My guess is that he "educates" himself with opinionated pieces/articles/podcasts etc

[TD 21]

Eh, what's condescending to a person depends on how they interpret what's being said.

But being "condescending" or writing too long of posts are way too subjective.

Sure, but I'm talking more so about the perception and it's easy to see why.

For example, if we created a poll asking whether you (or I) came off that way, I'm confident it'd be well above 50% for you and let's just say even higher for me. :lmao

[Chinook]

That's just factually not true and I with others detailled you multiple times WHY...

No, you didn't. You can some extremely fluffy answer about French culture. It would be like an American saying the US only spreads freedom and going on about the melting pot. It's cringe shit.


You can't understand the ppl's reaction when they had the opportunity to read the letter Embiid sent?

No, I can't understand why people would boo him repeatedly. I wouldn't care if I were them. The dude could've dressed himself in stars and stripes and made out with Biden during a press conference only to have decided to play for Canada. I wouldn't care at all.

[Chinook]

He doesn't know much, but that's not the worst part, he's too condescending to better himself.

My guess is that he "educates" himself with opinionated pieces/articles/podcasts etc

I'm sure that "condescending" card is going to get tons of use. It's even nicer when you can use it to avoid having to examine anything you say.

[Frenchfred]

And this is why nobody likes Frenchies. Your screed and history re-write is obnoxious at best. Now tell us why there is no such thing as "African-French" like there is "African-American". Hint: because French people hate blacks even though they occupied their countries for decades

This has to be the most stupid thing I ever read on this board. :lol You think that Americans like black people more because they call them African-Americans? What a dumb argument

[exstatic]

Might have been close if Pop didn't go retard with Point Sochan and Point Bran Ham.

…and selling the cap room.

[Pauleta14]

And no, I don't really like Embiid. He ended Danny Green's career with his stupid flopping. That crime would cut through any country or jersey. If the crowd was booing him for that, I'd be all for it.

Whatever ur pov of Embiid being needed or not is irrelevant to the topic

Embiid has been heavily recruited by the US and France never initiated anything

Those are facts. Not opinions

[Frenchfred]

Oh wow, so you DON'T know what your country does overseas. You really do think France is just "friends" with all these poor third-world countries and that their shared language is a sign of brotherhood and not the mark of their oppression. Why is French the educated language of these nations? Why is English the lingua franca of the world? The answer is not that those languages are so great that everyone wants to preserve them.

And yes, the US also has black people in high-culture positions. Hell, a person of South-Asian/African descent might be the next president. The current UK PM is of Afro-Indian descent. None of that means those countries don't do imperialist shit or that the fact that so much talent from other nations flocks to them is a happy accident.

If you seriously believe the things you wrote, it's a sign that France is far more successful in selling the US's beard status to its people to cover up its own issues than I realized. France is a top-five most imperialist nation on the planet. Not in the past. Literally right now. I'm not even getting into their habit of claiming far-off territories as being part of their country. That's old imperialism and only some nations like Russia are playing that game at the moment. I'm talking about neo-colonialism, the type of military adventurism, exploitative trade deals and "masters of the universe" shit the US uses to control the world. If you don't know that your country is one of the biggest players of that game, you haven't looked into French foreign policy very deeply.

agreed, France is largely involved in its old colonies to make sure that French companies get contracts. We don't have the military might to invade countries based on lies like the US did in Irak to go and steal natural resources but we for sure do it in other ways.

[Pauleta14]

Eh, what's condescending to a person depends on how they interpret what's being said. If I break something down to first principles and build the argument back up from there, sure, you can take that to mean I'm assuming you're stupid. Or you can take that to mean I'm putting in the effort to show the whole of my reasoning so you can determine where you disagree. Trying to dismiss a person's argument as condescending is a red herring. Of course if someone doesn't want to get into the weeds, I can understand their annoyance. That doesn't mean there's an issue that needs to be fixed. The Wemby shit rose to the point of being a genuine conspiracy theory. No, I don't feel the need to pull back on my firm dismissal of some of the lazier and weaker aspects of that conspiracy just because those pushing them didn't want to defend themselves.

That doesn't mean that I don't care about when my posting style is criticized in good faith. That's happened, and I have adjusted. But being "condescending" or writing too long of posts are way too subjective.

The most important word was "UNNECESSARILY", not "condescending"

My guess is you've heard this critic quite often by your entourage

Never too late mate :)

[Pauleta14]

No, you didn't. You can some extremely fluffy answer about French culture. It would be like an American saying the US only spreads freedom and going on about the melting pot. It's cringe shit.



No, I can't understand why people would boo him repeatedly. I wouldn't care if I were them. The dude could've dressed himself in stars and stripes and made out with Biden during a press conference only to have decided to play for Canada. I wouldn't care at all.

You're mixing the 2 parts of my answer (conveniently?)

I indeed was quite short in the political part bc it's so complex I don't want to disgress into that and it's not the original point of the discussion. My point was just to highlight your stereotypes on France and its people that clearly you don't know much about. (and it's fine, I wouldn't pretend knowing US's history more than u if you started educating me on a specific aspect)

On the boos, I gave u points you clearly didn't know about (have you read said letter or not? just be honest) and that changes the whole perspective/view on those boos.

I (tried to ) explain you that there's a football troll culture that there was zero hate (mostly a familly atmosphere in the stand btw) but you keep acting as if those boos were a hatefull colonialist inspired behavior... :lol

[Chinook]

This has to be the most stupid thing I ever read on this board. :lol You think that Americans like black people more because they call them African-Americans? What a dumb argument

To be clear, I haven't been talking about the attitude of the average French person so far. As I said at the top, I don't have any beef with French people and enjoy the language and culture. Splits seems to have a different take on it, and I'm not endorsing that.

But at the same time, yes, it is becoming increasingly concerning how much the posters here seem to not know is going on. In the US, the willingness to discuss the imperialist shit this country does aligns mostly with the political spectrum. If you're a staunch warhawk conservative, the US did nothing wrong and spread freedom while holding back the enemies of freedom. If you're moderate, the US did some bad things but is ultimately a force for good. If you're a tankie, the US is main force for evil in the world, and anyone who opposes them is a hero. So while we might be more or less willing to criticize the nation's imperialist designs, we at least know they're doing it.

Do French folks really not know what their military and government are currently doing around the world? Like is there no left-wing party harping on it? Is there no far-right party glorifying it? Does everyone just literally never talk about it? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I 100-percent agree I shouldn't be the person having to introduce this shit. I'm just a random dude who looks at the news every once in a while. What the hell that the news look like over there?

[Pauleta14]

I'm sure that "condescending" card is going to get tons of use. It's even nicer when you can use it to avoid having to examine anything you say.

You're missing the point mate

One can only remain intelligent and increase it if he stays humble regarding his certainties. It's an essential ingredient

The day you lose that is the day you start getting stupider

Looking down on ppl as you do all the time makes you miss tons of knowledge and diff perspectives of situations/problems and prevents you from admitting and coecting your mistakes.

+ it makes u a dick

[Chinook]

You're missing the point mate

One can only remain intelligent and increase it if he stays humble regarding his certainties. It's an essential ingredient

The day you lose that is the day you start getting stupider

Looking down on ppl as you do all the time makes you miss tons of knowledge and diff perspectives of situations/problems and prevents you from admitting and coecting your mistakes.

+ it makes u a dick

I think constantly trying to sum up a person's point with a personality trait is more likely to limit your ability to understand points. Again, you're calling me condescending because I didn't buy your bullshit about the Spurs players resenting Wemby doesn't bother me. I also admit mistakes constantly, probably more than most other posters. I post a lot, and I'm wrong on a fair bit of those. I don't keep scores against people and don't bring up when they're wrong in an attempt to get a sense of superiority over them.

Again, you've found a way to respond that requires even less effort than before. Congrats on that.

[Pauleta14]

To be clear, I haven't been talking about the attitude of the average French person so far. As I said at the top, I don't have any beef with French people and enjoy the language and culture. Splits seems to have a different take on it, and I'm not endorsing that.

But at the same time, yes, it is becoming increasingly concerning how much the posters here seem to not know is going on. In the US, the willingness to discuss the imperialist shit this country does aligns mostly with the political spectrum. If you're a staunch warhawk conservative, the US did nothing wrong and spread freedom while holding back the enemies of freedom. If you're moderate, the US did some bad things but is ultimately a force for good. If you're a tankie, the US is main force for evil in the world, and anyone who opposes them is a hero. So while we might be more or less willing to criticize the nation's imperialist designs, we at least know they're doing it.

Do French folks really not know what their military and government are currently doing around the world? Like is there no left-wing party harping on it? Is there no far-right party glorifying it? Does everyone just literally never talk about it? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I 100-percent agree I shouldn't be the person having to introduce this shit. I'm just a random dude who looks at the news every once in a while. What the hell that the news look like over there?

Do you think we're uneducated idiots or what? :lol

Of course we know the horrors our country has done and still does...

It just has nothing to do with Embiid and the original topic!

I criticise my country, its networking culture (at the detriment of merit), it's constant judgmental attitude on any topic etc Don't even get me started on the parisians and I'm Parisian!! (Living in London in part bc I'm tired of Fench's behaviour and lack of civilism etc)

AGAIN, NOT THE TOPIC

Now if u want on another thread talk about it, don't worry, the french love to criticise anything, their country included)

[MultiTroll]

https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/13/6c/6a/11/exterior.jpg?w=900&h=-1&s=1

[Chinook]

You're mixing the 2 parts of my answer (conveniently?)

I indeed was quite short in the political part bc it's so complex I don't want to disgress into that and it's not the original point of the discussion. My point was just to highlight your stereotypes on France and its people that clearly you don't know much about. (and it's fine, I wouldn't pretend knowing US's history more than u if you started educating me on a specific aspect)

On the boos, I gave u points you clearly didn't know about (have you read said letter or not? just be honest) and that changes the whole perspective/view on those boos.

I (tried to ) explain you that there's a football troll culture that there was zero hate (mostly a familly atmosphere in the stand btw) but you keep acting as if those boos were a hatefull colonialist inspired behavior... :lol

We're all talking about multiple things. No, I don't think it makes sense to boo him because of a fucking letter. No, likening it to soccer culture doesn't change that. Suggesting that soccer culture would make something okay despite how many issues soccer culture has around the world (very much including in Europe) definitely doesn't change it.

But, like, I don't care about it now. Because I don't care about Embiid. I am happy that he had a couple of good games despite the booing as like the 100th reason why I like this Olympic run. So forgive me for focusing on the more prevalent points rather than carving out a special time to debate whether European soccer fans ever maliciously "troll" players.


I indeed was quite short in the political part bc it's so complex I don't want to disgress into that and it's not the original point of the discussion. My point was just to highlight your stereotypes on France and its people that clearly you don't know much about. (and it's fine, I wouldn't pretend knowing US's history more than u if you started educating me on a specific aspect)

But still, you aren't wrong that if YOU are only talking about it this way, it's not fair for me to reply to you as if you're one of the other posters who is talking about that. Just as I don't want to have to talk about soccer culture, you don't want to talk about geopolitics. I don't think there's any letter to Macron or any speculation about the FNT without that geopolitical situation, mind you. But I will admit that I might just be out of tune with that type of fan response. I'm a person who never saw the need to boo Kawhi and saw the Spurs beating him in 2019 as the end to it. There are Spurs fans, I assume of multiple cultural backgrounds, who have different ideas. I don't mind the insight into soccer culture you provided, even if I wouldn't paint the same picture you did.

[Frenchfred]

To be clear, I haven't been talking about the attitude of the average French person so far. As I said at the top, I don't have any beef with French people and enjoy the language and culture. Splits seems to have a different take on it, and I'm not endorsing that.

But at the same time, yes, it is becoming increasingly concerning how much the posters here seem to not know is going on. In the US, the willingness to discuss the imperialist shit this country does aligns mostly with the political spectrum. If you're a staunch warhawk conservative, the US did nothing wrong and spread freedom while holding back the enemies of freedom. If you're moderate, the US did some bad things but is ultimately a force for good. If you're a tankie, the US is main force for evil in the world, and anyone who opposes them is a hero. So while we might be more or less willing to criticize the nation's imperialist designs, we at least know they're doing it.

Do French folks really not know what their military and government are currently doing around the world? Like is there no left-wing party harping on it? Is there no far-right party glorifying it? Does everyone just literally never talk about it? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I 100-percent agree I shouldn't be the person having to introduce this shit. I'm just a random dude who looks at the news every once in a while. What the hell that the news look like over there?

For countries, there are economic interests and that's it. The US invaded Irak not to bring democracy, not to remove a dictator but solely to have access to Irak's natural resources through contracts for US companies. The US have been involved in most of Central and South Americas removing governments and putting puppets in power to serve its economic interests. France has probably not gone as far as invading other countries or assassinating head of state lately but for sure it is supporting the candidates that serve its economic interests. They are discussions about it in France especially lately as several African countries cut ties with France. I think that France has to remove its troops from all the countries and let those countries decide their fate. That will also help put stringent immigration policies in place, hard to tell people to stay home when you are involved in their affairs.

[Pauleta14]

I think constantly trying to sum up a person's point with a personality trait is more likely to limit your ability to understand points. Again, you're calling me condescending because I didn't buy your bullshit about the Spurs players resenting Wemby doesn't bother me. I also admit mistakes constantly, probably more than most other posters. I post a lot, and I'm wrong on a fair bit of those. I don't keep scores against people and don't bring up when they're wrong in an attempt to get a sense of superiority over them.

Again, you've found a way to respond that requires even less effort than before. Congrats on that.

????

Are you refering to months old exchange?

I'm fine being wrong, I'm probably more wrong than right even, especailly at the start of last season when I was coming back after a long NBA break.

The problem I have is that before you even make ur point you have a reflex to go ad hominem ALL THE FUCKING TIME (:lol). You might not realise it but it does impact a lot the way we read the end of your post or the tone we'll use to answer.

Hence the "unnecessarily".

You clearly have a lot more knowledge than me on many NBA topics and appreciate learning from any of you, it just sucks that you waste it all by attacking one's IQ or emotional stability before you even make your point.

I come here to chill and share my passion for the Spurs, not be be insulted at any stupid (not always ^^ most of ST ended up agreing with me on Sochan or Vassell :) take or dismissed as a fanboy at my age.

Anyways, never too late as I said, I know I can be even worst than you (as I probably am currently^^) but it's only as a response bc I just don't like being walked on, I'm sure u can get that.

cheers

[TD 21]

You're missing the point mate

One can only remain intelligent and increase it if he stays humble regarding his certainties. It's an essential ingredient

The day you lose that is the day you start getting stupider

Looking down on ppl as you do all the time makes you miss tons of knowledge and diff perspectives of situations/problems and prevents you from admitting and coecting your mistakes.

+ it makes u a dick

Well said.

This is not directed at Chinook because I haven't bothered to read enough to have an opinion on this back and forth, but it's why you'll never catch me wading into something I know little or nothing of . . . I know what I know, but I know even more what I don't know.

[Pauleta14]

https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/13/6c/6a/11/exterior.jpg?w=900&h=-1&s=1

:lol

There's no game today + it's actually the kind of constructive useful exchanges I like

[Pauleta14]

We're all talking about multiple things. No, I don't think it makes sense to boo him because of a fucking letter. No, likening it to soccer culture doesn't change that. Suggesting that soccer culture would make something okay despite how many issues soccer culture has around the world (very much including in Europe) definitely doesn't change it.

But, like, I don't care about it now. Because I don't care about Embiid. I am happy that he had a couple of good games despite the booing as like the 100th reason why I like this Olympic run. So forgive me for focusing on the more prevalent points rather than carving out a special time to debate whether European soccer fans ever maliciously "troll" players.



But still, you aren't wrong that if YOU are only talking about it this way, it's not fair for me to reply to you as if you're one of the other posters who is talking about that. Just as I don't want to have to talk about soccer culture, you don't want to talk about geopolitics. I don't think there's any letter to Macron or any speculation about the FNT without that geopolitical situation, mind you. But I will admit that I might just be out of tune with that type of fan response. I'm a person who never saw the need to boo Kawhi and saw the Spurs beating him in 2019 as the end to it. There are Spurs fans, I assume of multiple cultural backgrounds, who have different ideas. I don't mind the insight into soccer culture you provided, even if I wouldn't paint the same picture you did.

- Have you read that letter? If you haven't (most probably) you are ok having an opinion based on selected and missing facts? That's not very rational, is it? It can't hurt you knwing more, can it?

- I'm not trrying to educate u about soccer, I was just givin u some context to have a better picture of the situation. It's kinda useful. isn't it?

- Try find any hatefull attitude or body language in all those clips of Embiid being booed. If you can't, don't u agree it's very diff than for the genuine hate some players can receive like Nephew in SA last season? You seriously can't put both at the same level. Those are sooo different

- Lastly I'm not a fan of the troll culture either and if I was in the stands I wouldn't boo Embiid nor would I have booed Nephew. But it's just me. I can have empthy and put things in perspective. I wouldn't defend it if it was rooted in hate. It just really isn't

[MultiTroll]

:lol

There's no game today + it's actually the kind of constructive useful exchanges I like
No problem and no objection.

Just thought y'all might be more comfortable.

[Pauleta14]

Well said.

This is not directed at Chinook because I haven't bothered to read enough to have an opinion on this back and forth, but it's why you'll never catch me wading into something I know little or nothing of . . . I know what I know, but I know even more what I don't know.

Cogito Ergo Sum

[Splits]

:lol not sure where this is coming from... a French fucked your wife or something ?

You have racists everywhere and certainly a good amount in France but some of the most racist people in this planet ? :lol no

Aren't you black and French? You should know better than anyone.

I'm no Francophobe, je parle, I live in Switzerland. It is well known and commonly accepted French people hate immigrants, that there is no such concept of "African French", their policies of allowing free immigration from colonized states seriously pisses off "white French". This isn't even controversial, it's just true.

[Splits]

This has to be the most stupid thing I ever read on this board. :lol You think that Americans like black people more because they call them African-Americans? What a dumb argument

Americans are racist as fuck. They own racism. That doesn't mean the French aren't racist as well. It is literally true there is no such category of people in France as "African-French". You're either French (white) or you're not.

[Chinook]

For countries, there are economic interests and that's it. The US invaded Irak not to bring democracy, not to remove a dictator but solely to have access to Irak's natural resources through contracts for US companies. The US have been involved in most of Central and South Americas removing governments and putting puppets in power to serve its economic interests. France has probably not gone as far as invading other countries or assassinating head of state lately but for sure it is supporting the candidates that serve its economic interests. They are discussions about it in France especially lately as several African countries cut ties with France. I think that France has to remove its troops from all the countries and let those countries decide their fate. That will also help put stringent immigration policies in place, hard to tell people to stay home when you are involved in their affairs.

I think how the non-metropolitan areas of France vote is also an interesting factor to monitor when considering the nation's influence on the world. That's something I've only looked at in passing the last few elections. But it seemed interesting to me how uninterested many of the areas have been in supporting the ruling party. They'll go from far-left to far-right in the same election cycle.

[Splits]

I think how the non-metropolitan areas of France vote is also an interesting factor to monitor when considering the nation's influence on the world. That's something I've only looked at in passing the last few elections. But it seemed interesting to me how uninterested many of the areas have been in supporting the ruling party. They'll go from far-left to far-right in the same election cycle.

No, they don't. Marine Le Pen has lost over and over and over, never winning despite polls showing she will. She is a loser and loses and loses. She's a loser and the far right never wins in any elections. Never

[Brazil]

It's funny, because I think you would probably find it perfectly viable for non-Americans to explain US foreign policy to Americans or Russian foreign policy to Russians. You know, because other nations have to deal with the foreign policy while the domestic population doesn't. I have to imagine there a ton of memes floating around about how little 'Muricans know about the world. That idea is out there despite the US government being all over the world in everyone's business. So do you think there's something unique to the US that makes their citizens prone to ignorance of what their government does abroad?

Point is you have no clue other than what you are reading in english in the press through american outlets. Your vision about the Embiid case and the French so called neo colonialism is, at best, superficial.

I, for one, lived in the US and read and speak English and even with that I am aware that I don't know deeply motivations behind american foreign policies or the subtilities of American culture. I comment on US or Russian policies when it is impacting me or my country or to make fun of the usual dumbasses of this forum (and you are not one of them). Saying that if we had to answer a quizz me on american politics and you on French politics... I would win by a mile unless you have studied French politics somewhere which I doubt.



You statements are caricatural and baseless.

[MultiTroll]

Durbetta still be showin he a gangsta offs da kourt.

Kevin Durant beat Serbia, then stayed up all night getting into Twitter beef (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/kevin-durant-beat-serbia-then-stayed-up-all-night-getting-into-twitter-beef/ar-AA1owQ6P?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=5a3230fc357a4b33b5d7a570783eaefb&ei=33#)

[rjv]

i wake up to see this thread has changed to a debate on which country hates blacks more and/or is more imperialistic: France or the US. it's like comparing McDonalds to Burger King, or Taco Bell to Taco Bueno.

[Chinook]

No, they don't. Marine Le Pen has lost over and over and over, never winning despite polls showing she will. She is a loser and loses and loses. She's a loser and the far right never wins in any elections. Never

Non-metropolian means the territories that France has that aren't continental France. Le Pen was actually the winner in those areas during the run-off, but Melenchon won in the first ballot:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/2022_French_Presidential_Election_Second_Round_Map .svg/1024px-2022_French_Presidential_Election_Second_Round_Map .svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/France_presidential_election%2C_1st_round_by_const ituency.svg/1024px-France_presidential_election%2C_1st_round_by_const ituency.svg.png

If it were purely a political expression, you'd expect Macron to pick up the areas Melenchon won in the first ballot. Lesser of two evils, as it were. That they flipped to Le Pen suggests they were more anti-Macron than anything else. Seeing Macron's foreign policy, I am not surprised.

But yes, Le Pen sucks and is a loser. I don't disagree there at all.

(While I didn't post a pic here, the outer areas mostly didn't vote for Macron's coalition in this most recent election. That could mean Macron's party didn't want to pick them up or that the voters there didn't want to support any coalition he was endorsing. But it's not a one-time thing.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_French_presidential_election#/media/File:2022_French_Presidential_Election_Second_Roun d_Map.svg

[Frenchfred]

Americans are racist as fuck. They own racism. That doesn't mean the French aren't racist as well. It is literally true there is no such category of people in France as "African-French". You're either French (white) or you're not.

I never said that French were not racist. But saying that we don't have a category called African-French makes us more racists is stupid, sorry. If you are born in France, you are not born in Africa; so what's the point of reminding a person of its origins in calling him African-French. I find the African-American term stupid as well. Saying that somebody is black or white is not derogatory, it is simply the color of their skin.

Of course, the free immigration is pissing people up and there is no problem with it. Discussing immigration should not lead to calling people racist or fascist, countries have the right to decide who comes and who doesn't. Living in Switzerland, you should be really be aware of it as it is one of the toughest country to emigrate to. I can tell you that if France was applying Swiss immigration policies in place, it would be much better but somehow if France does it, we are racist.

[rjv]

Cogito Ergo Sum

that's really more of the Cartesian "I think, therefore i am" premise. TD was really going for more of a Socratic "all I know is I know nothing" vibe with a sprinkle of iykyk thrown in. (oh shit, i just pulled a chinook!)

[Brazil]

Aren't you black and French? You should know better than anyone.

I'm no Francophobe, je parle, I live in Switzerland. It is well known and commonly accepted French people hate immigrants, that there is no such concept of "African French", their policies of allowing free immigration from colonized states seriously pisses off "white French". This isn't even controversial, it's just true.

not sure what you are saying here, give me one example of a country where a good portion of the people is not pissed off by immigration ? Even Canada is starting to have issues with that, Switzerland is also a good example of a country who has difficulties with immigration, also well known that German Swiss "hate" italian Swiss and so on...

I'm sorry to tell you that but no, French people don't hate immigrants, that's too large of a generalization... We could dig into the no concept of African French that is mostly linked to a model of integration by assimilation rather than the English communitarism, and as you have seen this model is showing its limits.

I can play the game of who I find more racist... everybody has his list bro... as crazy as it sounds Brazilian are for instance contrary to the appearances extremely racist but this is a diferent form than in Europe, Argentina, Korea are also examples worth to dig into... but that's not really the place here.

[Chinook]

i wake up to see this thread has changed to a debate on which country hates blacks more and/or is more imperialistic: France or the US. it's like comparing McDonalds to Burger King, or Taco Bell to Taco Bueno.

I wish we were talking about which one is more imperialist. Only one French poster has been willing to admit that France is imperialist at all (excluding P14 who has made it clear they aren't getting into that topic).

[Chinook]

that's really more of the Cartesian "I think, therefore i am" premise. TD was really going for more of a Socratic "all I know is I know nothing" vibe with a sprinkle of iykyk thrown in. (oh shit, i just pulled a chinook!)

Dude, could you condescend a little less next time plz?

[rjv]

Dude, could you condescend a little less next time plz?

i was shooting for irony.

[Dex]

Do we need to move this thread to the Political Forum?

[Chinook]

To the French posters in this thread:


I do think there is a nuanced discussion to be had about Embiid, his letter, the factors that could have led to the letter being written, the response and the geopolitical context of that response. Those elements are all intertwined, and I do resist the attempts to assert they can be separated.

However, I do think it's going to derail this thread if I/we keep harping on it. So I can take the L here in the sense that the folks booing Embiid might be doing it with clean hearts and in good fun solely due to reading a letter, and that I should not have accused them of any consideration of the geopolitical context in which their responses exists. I can also admit that I do not watch soccer despite living in Austin where they keep trying to make Austin FC a thing.

[Chinook]

i was shooting for irony.

I was shooting for tongue-in-cheek.

To me, the Cogito was taught more as the core axiom of epistemology (with the associated phrase of "I am a thinking thing"). It's basically the idea that pulls Descartes out of his spiral of doubting every thing. He set being able to think and doubt as what it meant to exist, and because he could think, he could take it as a truth that he existed. In other words, I think; therefore I am.

But I don't know if they teach it differently in France, so I didn't question it.

[TD 21]

^ If Embiid had never shown interest and cited the initial reason you stated, then I'd agree with the crux of the argument I think (again, haven't read much and don't have the time nor interest) you're making.

The problem is, Embiid led the French on by showing interest and going through a process, only to do what he was clearly always going to, which was play cool kids and start on the two-yard line.

We know it's his prerogative and he'd have still received backlash either way, but it'd be with less vitriol.

As far as booing in general, it's not my style (no, not even Scumbag). But as long as it's warranted, I don't have a problem with it either.

[Limguogolo]

Oh wow, so you DON'T know what your country does overseas. You really do think France is just “friends” with all these poor third-world countries and that their shared language is a sign of brotherhood and not the mark of their oppression. Why is French the educated language of these nations? Why is English the lingua franca of the world? The answer is not that those languages are so great that everyone wants to preserve them.

And yes, the US also has black people in high-culture positions. Hell, a person of South-Asian/African descent might be the next president. The current UK PM is of Afro-Indian descent. None of that means those countries don't do imperialist shit or that the fact that so much talent from other nations flocks to them is a happy accident.

If you seriously believe the things you wrote, it's a sign that France is far more successful in selling the US's beard status to its people to cover up its own issues than I realized. France is a top-five most imperialist nation on the planet. Not in the past. Literally right now. I'm not even getting into their habit of claiming far-off territories as being part of their country. That's old imperialism and only some nations like Russia are playing that game at the moment. I'm talking about neo-colonialism, the type of military adventurism, exploitative trade deals and "masters of the universe" shit the US uses to control the world. If you don't know that your country is one of the biggest players of that game, you haven't looked into French foreign policy very deeply.

A Texan (or whatever) is giving me a lesson on French history and culture, that's funny.

Yes, you are right, I suppose that the white flag must be the cutting-edge weapon used by French imperialism to impose its views in the world. Maybe the creation of the Olympics is still imperialism. Perhaps the desire to keep the UN bodies viable to perpetuate the multilateralist spirit inspired, in part, by the USA, but which many American presidents for twenty years have sought to deny, is still imperialism. Perhaps making intimate verbal films without special effects should be proof of French imperialism in the world. Perhaps our fascination with all the cultures of the world, and first and foremost American cultures (basketball, for instance), is an unacknowledged tendency of our arrogant imperialism. Perhaps our desire to create a society based on multiculturalism in which everyone can live together and nourish themselves from each other's culture, marveling at the diversity of our society instead of asking each individual to the same community to stay among themselves in order to hope for social peace, that this too is still a form of imperialism. Perhaps, moreover, we are trying to impose our “secularism” on the world, a principle rarely understood…

Where you are right is that all these values ​​tend to be lost.

Racism does exist in France. It used to be only racism linked to poor people, to ghettos, that the country allowed to develop. With already terrible consequences: on average, people were not very racist (also a result of the colonialist past, and the past of collaboration with an anti-Semitic and genocidal occupying regime), but it was not direct: blacks or Arabs did not have of the same level of education, they were then victims of racism when they were looking for a job or housing (which is already a big problem, yes, but it doesn't affect other aspects of the society, for instance, mixed couples are not rare). But now, because of social networks, because of far-right media, because of far-right populists, more frontal racism is reappearing. But despite these excesses, I persist in thinking that there is no better country than France to live in when you are different from the historical norm. This country will have to work to ensure that racists do not come to power and that old issues are finally resolved.

Where you might still be right is that Macron's policy is perhaps the closest thing to a form of “imperialism”. But that’s part of the character’s package that tends toward autocracy.

But if there remains imperialism, we must above all speak of “Westernism”. And France takes part, yes. The last resolutely and openly colonial territory is Israel. Israel is an invention of the West. And for several months now, the West has been guilty of complicity in the genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank. This is the last imperialism, the only one that really matters, the only one of which we in the West are all complicit and guilty.

[rjv]

I was shooting for tongue-in-cheek.

To me, the Cogito was taught more as the core axiom of epistemology (with the associated phrase of "I am a thinking thing"). It's basically the idea that pulls Descartes out of his spiral of doubting every thing. He set being able to think and doubt as what it meant to exist, and because he could think, he could take it as a truth that he existed. In other words, I think; therefore I am.

But I don't know if they teach it differently in France, so I didn't question it.

i know of a German who questioned it (the cogito), but i Kant remember his name.

[Limguogolo]

No, I can't understand why people would boo him repeatedly. I wouldn't care if I were them. The dude could've dressed himself in stars and stripes and made out with Biden during a press conference only to have decided to play for Canada. I wouldn't care at all.
If you can't understand why people would boo Embiid repeatedly, why are you trying to explain to us… our own culture?


— Boo!!!!
— Why are you whistling?
— We're trolling him. It's not very intelligent, but it's not bad. There is no hatred behind it.
— Okay. It's imperialism.
— Uh, what?
— I don't understand your culture, so I'm going to explain to you in a roundabout way that I'm still right talking about your own culture.

[Sugus]

not sure what you are saying here, give me one example of a country where a good portion of the people is not pissed off by immigration ? Even Canada is starting to have issues with that, Switzerland is also a good example of a country who has difficulties with immigration, also well known that German Swiss "hate" italian Swiss and so on...

I'm sorry to tell you that but no, French people don't hate immigrants, that's too large of a generalization... We could dig into the no concept of African French that is mostly linked to a model of integration by assimilation rather than the English communitarism, and as you have seen this model is showing its limits.

I can play the game of who I find more racist... everybody has his list bro... as crazy as it sounds Brazilian are for instance contrary to the appearances extremely racist but this is a diferent form than in Europe, Argentina, Korea are also examples worth to dig into... but that's not really the place here.

It's funny you name-dropped Argentina later in the comment, because it was going to be my exact reply to your first question; Argies largely have no issue with immigration and have historically been an extremely welcoming nation, both as known in "meme culture" (the alleged Nazis in the South), and less known but equally as valid (the incredible Jewish migration, so much so that it almost made them create Israel there).

Your claim on Brazilians is not crazy and quite well-known to anyone who knows anything about LATAM, tbh. Korea and Europe aren't a secret, either. But I somehow doubt Argentina has anywhere near as strong a history to be placed amongst them. Care to enlighten me?

Honestly, French people shouldn't really be talking about any other countries' racism without checking their own first....

(Also :lol at the sheer amount of French colonialism denial in this thread, surprising and disgusting, as it always is).

[Limguogolo]

I think how the non-metropolitan areas of France vote is also an interesting factor to monitor when considering the nation's influence on the world. That's something I've only looked at in passing the last few elections. But it seemed interesting to me how uninterested many of the areas have been in supporting the ruling party. They'll go from far-left to far-right in the same election cycle.
Thank you for illustrating once again that you know nothing about the situation in France. French society and domestic and foreign policy are complex (like all societies). Don't try to draw ready-made conclusions from the bits and pieces you've learned here and there, it's embarrassing.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/spurs_muse/status/1821954596622799091

[Brazil]

It's funny you name-dropped Argentina later in the comment, because it was going to be my exact reply to your first question; Argies largely have no issue with immigration and have historically been an extremely welcoming nation, both as known in "meme culture" (the alleged Nazis in the South), and less known but equally as valid (the incredible Jewish migration, so much so that it almost made them create Israel there).

Your claim on Brazilians is not crazy and quite well-known to anyone who knows anything about LATAM, tbh. Korea and Europe aren't a secret, either. But I somehow doubt Argentina has anywhere near as strong a history to be placed amongst them. Care to enlighten me?

Honestly, French people shouldn't really be talking about any other countries' racism without checking their own first....

(Also :lol at the sheer amount of French colonialism denial in this thread, surprising and disgusting, as it always is).

:lol I'm gonna try to be as neutral as I can but if you ask to a Brazilian who are the most racists people in the world they will start their list with Argentina... Now I managed plants in Argentina, I went there very frequently I never noticed any particular racism BUT if you go to a football arena, that's crazy... argentinean soccer fans are the most racist bunch I've seen in my life. Must be a football thing I guess.

Also easier to see the issues in the others rather looking into our own

I don't think any French would contest French colonialism history but the so called actual neo colonialism is more complex than it seems. And again compared to china, russia, us or even uk.. france is a toddler

[Chinook]

Point is you have no clue other than what you are reading in english in the press through american outlets. Your vision about the Embiid case and the French so called neo colonialism is, at best, superficial.

...

You statements are caricatural and baseless.


Also easier to see the issues in the others rather looking into our own

[Pauleta14]

that's really more of the Cartesian "I think, therefore i am" premise. TD was really going for more of a Socratic "all I know is I know nothing" vibe with a sprinkle of iykyk thrown in. (oh shit, i just pulled a chinook!)

The conclusion is the same

Only thing I know for sure is that I am.

There are plenty of philosophical instances, like Plato's allegory of the cave as well

[Chinook]

A Texan (or whatever) is giving me a lesson on French history and culture, that's funny.

See, this is why I was telling Teeds that "condescending" is too loose of a term.

It's not condescending for me to point out easy-to-find facts about French foreign policy. It is condescending for folks to believe their demographics mean their opinions are unassailable by folks who don't share that demographic. Like seriously, bro, just google it. Unless the Internet is being censored in France, you should be able to find sources about it in multiple languages, from outlets all over the world. It's not a secret.

And so we can separate things: I haven't talked about French culture other than to say I enjoy a number of exports from it and that I can concede a lack of familiarity with soccer culture. I am not trying to "explain" that to you. I am going to challenge your perception of France's reputation in the wider Francophonie. That's no more "your culture" than the US's rep around the Anglosphere is American culture. I personally think you should examine your views on people who contribute to the "appreciated cultural diversity". It's not going to all be one way.


Thank you for illustrating once again that you know nothing about the situation in France. French society and domestic and foreign policy are complex (like all societies). Don't try to draw ready-made conclusions from the bits and pieces you've learned here and there, it's embarrassing.

You can actually draw a lot of evidence about a nation's foreign policy by looking its citizens in outer territories. Native Americans. indigenous Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans -- they don't have same view of the US as folks in Nebraska.

Of course, I showed the maps to indicate what I was talking about. You pulled a conclusion out of thin air and just assumed because you're French it had to be more correct.

[Splits]

not sure what you are saying here, give me one example of a country where a good portion of the people is not pissed off by immigration ? Even Canada is starting to have issues with that, Switzerland is also a good example of a country who has difficulties with immigration, also well known that German Swiss "hate" italian Swiss and so on...

I'm sorry to tell you that but no, French people don't hate immigrants, that's too large of a generalization... We could dig into the no concept of African French that is mostly linked to a model of integration by assimilation rather than the English communitarism, and as you have seen this model is showing its limits.

I can play the game of who I find more racist... everybody has his list bro... as crazy as it sounds Brazilian are for instance contrary to the appearances extremely racist but this is a diferent form than in Europe, Argentina, Korea are also examples worth to dig into... but that's not really the place here.

Swiss Germans hate Swiss French. But everyone hates the Italians. They are a dirty group, they are nasty and disgusting no matter which region they hail from, Ticino or Italy proper.

[spurraider21]

Swiss Germans hate Swiss French. But everyone hates the Italians. They are a dirty group, they are nasty and disgusting no matter which region they hail from, Ticino or Italy proper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtTPVcP5WLQ

[Limguogolo]

See, this is why I was telling Teeds that “condescending” is too loose of a term.

It's not condescending for me to point out easy-to-find facts about French foreign policy. It is condescending for folks to believe their demographics mean their opinions are unassailable by folks who don't share that demographic. Like seriously, bro, just google it. Unless the Internet is being censored in France, you should be able to find sources about it in multiple languages, from outlets all over the world. It's not a secret.

And so we can separate things: I haven't talked about French culture other than to say I enjoy a number of exports from it and that I can concede a lack of familiarity with soccer culture. I am not trying to “explain” that to you. I am going to challenge your perception of France's reputation in the wider Francophonie. That's no more “your culture” than the US's rep around the Anglosphere is American culture. I personally think you should examine your views on people who contribute to the “appreciated cultural diversity”. It's not going to all be one way.



You can actually draw a lot of evidence about a nation's foreign policy by looking its citizens in outer territories. Native Americans. indigenous Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans -- they don't have same view of the US as folks in Nebraska.

Of course, I showed the maps to indicate what I was talking about. You pulled a conclusion out of thin air and just assumed because you're French it had to be more correct.
(He is advising me to “do my own research” on the political and cultural situation in… my own country.)


Let's leave it there. Politics is a subject that is the true national sport in France. You put points on the table that may be real, but you perfectly illustrate that you are incapable of interpreting or understanding them. A bit like a child who learns a new word and tries to use it in a sentence in a strange or counter-meaning. And we're off-topic (it would be simpler if a moderator could cut and link all of this on another topic, but that's not done here I think^^).

[Pauleta14]

Aren't you black and French? You should know better than anyone.

I'm no Francophobe, je parle, I live in Switzerland. It is well known and commonly accepted French people hate immigrants, that there is no such concept of "African French", their policies of allowing free immigration from colonized states seriously pisses off "white French". This isn't even controversial, it's just true.

French ppl have less problem with immigrants than most countries, you, like many are just full of cliches and should educate yourself.

France was built on centuries on immigration, more than any other european country, I myself have a father immigrant.

You are confusing the top of society and the people as well as correlations and causations.

The real causation of the lack of representation of immigrant population isn't even racism but the networking culture and over centalisation of the country where it's more important to know the right ppl, be in the right circles than having the right competency.

FYI (just in case you're willing to learn) France is one of the most diverse countries in the world, probabaly the closest the the USA in that regard, you can find whatever you want and inflate it easily.

Quite ironic that a Swiss dare judge another country on moral basis tho (see what I just did with some stupid cliches about Switzerland?:lol )

[Splits]

:lmao

[Chinook]

(He is advising me to “do my own research” on the political and cultural situation in… my own country.)

^ You thinking living in a country means you don't have to do research about that country

[Pauleta14]

Americans are racist as fuck. They own racism. That doesn't mean the French aren't racist as well. It is literally true there is no such category of people in France as "African-French". You're either French (white) or you're not.

Again a flase statement. They also created the wokeness era we live in. You're selecting whatever fits u

I wonder what type of generalities you can have on arabs or jews lmao

You are something :lol

[Pauleta14]

i wake up to see this thread has changed to a debate on which country hates blacks more and/or is more imperialistic: France or the US. it's like comparing McDonalds to Burger King, or Taco Bell to Taco Bueno.

You're not helping bro ... :lol

[rjv]

The conclusion is the same

Only thing I know for sure is that I am.

There are plenty of philosophical instances, like Plato's allegory of the cave as well


oh believe me i know, i have a masters in philosophy. western and continental philosophers spend a lot of time on back and forth discourse concerning the ontology of the self and reality, with the exception of the postmodernists, who just spend a lot of time questioning the nature of western european structures. (versus focusing on the self and our place within reality-this would be labeled as self-help or new age thought here in the states). i don't really know what nietzsche or heidegger would have had to say about their loss to france though.

[Splits]

(see what I just did with some stupid cliches about Switzerland?:lol )

No I don't. Please explain

[Dex]

https://x.com/spurs_muse/status/1821954596622799091

Meanwhile, DPOY Rudy Gobert is getting benched in the semi-finals

[Splits]

I wonder what type of generalities you can have on arabs or jews lmao


They are 1 level above Italians

[Pauleta14]

Non-metropolian means the territories that France has that aren't continental France. Le Pen was actually the winner in those areas during the run-off, but Melenchon won in the first ballot:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/2022_French_Presidential_Election_Second_Round_Map .svg/1024px-2022_French_Presidential_Election_Second_Round_Map .svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/France_presidential_election%2C_1st_round_by_const ituency.svg/1024px-France_presidential_election%2C_1st_round_by_const ituency.svg.png

If it were purely a political expression, you'd expect Macron to pick up the areas Melenchon won in the first ballot. Lesser of two evils, as it were. That they flipped to Le Pen suggests they were more anti-Macron than anything else. Seeing Macron's foreign policy, I am not surprised.

But yes, Le Pen sucks and is a loser. I don't disagree there at all.

(While I didn't post a pic here, the outer areas mostly didn't vote for Macron's coalition in this most recent election. That could mean Macron's party didn't want to pick them up or that the voters there didn't want to support any coalition he was endorsing. But it's not a one-time thing.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_French_presidential_election#/media/File:2022_French_Presidential_Election_Second_Roun d_Map.svg

To analyse another country's political landscape you need to understand its social ones, the context and the candidates, it's far from the Democrats/Republican US model.

You also need to understand that the vast majority of ppl alwasy vote AGAINST and BY DEFAULT. only en extrem minority (usually left&right extrems) are voting FOR a candidate by idiology.

You also need to understand that this whole generation of politician disgust the ppl more than any prioviouses and that the main factor in people choosing their camp is who their fear the most would take control of the country.

That's the only reason Macron reached power, bc ultimately the French will alwasy chose the least extrem. Melanchon the communist or Lepen the fascist had and have ZERO chance of ever being elected.

You also need to educate yourself on the election system and the 2 turns. Historically the people have used to 1st round to say "fuck you" and the 2nd for the real(listic) choice.

I'm sure you're smart enough to ealise at some point that if so many french ppl tell you that you are wrong it could be worth take a step back and wondering if we could be right. It's A LOT MORE complex than you seem to think.

France is a weird country, very hard to put its people in a box bc of its diversity and complex History

[Pauleta14]

To the French posters in this thread:


I do think there is a nuanced discussion to be had about Embiid, his letter, the factors that could have led to the letter being written, the response and the geopolitical context of that response. Those elements are all intertwined, and I do resist the attempts to assert they can be separated.

However, I do think it's going to derail this thread if I/we keep harping on it. So I can take the L here in the sense that the folks booing Embiid might be doing it with clean hearts and in good fun solely due to reading a letter, and that I should not have accused them of any consideration of the geopolitical context in which their responses exists. I can also admit that I do not watch soccer despite living in Austin where they keep trying to make Austin FC a thing.

It's all good and fun exchange mate. No need to take any L

It's actually a W if you learned even a little :)

[Pauleta14]

oh believe me i know, i have a masters in philosophy. western and continental philosophers spend a lot of time on back and forth discourse concerning the ontology of the self and reality, with the exception of the postmodernists, who just spend a lot of time questioning the nature of western european structures. (versus focusing on the self and our place within reality-this would be labeled as self-help or new age thought here in the states). i don't really know what nietzsche or heidegger would have had to say about their loss to france though.

Not doubting ur knowledge that is prob bigger than mine if u have a master

My point was just that we all have diff references that can be linked to the same idea. I just like Descartes a lot

[Pauleta14]

A Texan (or whatever) is giving me a lesson on French history and culture, that's funny.

Yes, you are right, I suppose that the white flag must be the cutting-edge weapon used by French imperialism to impose its views in the world. Maybe the creation of the Olympics is still imperialism. Perhaps the desire to keep the UN bodies viable to perpetuate the multilateralist spirit inspired, in part, by the USA, but which many American presidents for twenty years have sought to deny, is still imperialism. Perhaps making intimate verbal films without special effects should be proof of French imperialism in the world. Perhaps our fascination with all the cultures of the world, and first and foremost American cultures (basketball, for instance), is an unacknowledged tendency of our arrogant imperialism. Perhaps our desire to create a society based on multiculturalism in which everyone can live together and nourish themselves from each other's culture, marveling at the diversity of our society instead of asking each individual to the same community to stay among themselves in order to hope for social peace, that this too is still a form of imperialism. Perhaps, moreover, we are trying to impose our “secularism” on the world, a principle rarely understood…

Where you are right is that all these values ​​tend to be lost.

Racism does exist in France. It used to be only racism linked to poor people, to ghettos, that the country allowed to develop. With already terrible consequences: on average, people were not very racist (also a result of the colonialist past, and the past of collaboration with an anti-Semitic and genocidal occupying regime), but it was not direct: blacks or Arabs did not have of the same level of education, they were then victims of racism when they were looking for a job or housing (which is already a big problem, yes, but it doesn't affect other aspects of the society, for instance, mixed couples are not rare). But now, because of social networks, because of far-right media, because of far-right populists, more frontal racism is reappearing. But despite these excesses, I persist in thinking that there is no better country than France to live in when you are different from the historical norm. This country will have to work to ensure that racists do not come to power and that old issues are finally resolved.

Where you might still be right is that Macron's policy is perhaps the closest thing to a form of “imperialism”. But that’s part of the character’s package that tends toward autocracy.

But if there remains imperialism, we must above all speak of “Westernism”. And France takes part, yes. The last resolutely and openly colonial territory is Israel. Israel is an invention of the West. And for several months now, the West has been guilty of complicity in the genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank. This is the last imperialism, the only one that really matters, the only one of which we in the West are all complicit and guilty.


Go get them Limguogolo!!! :bobo:ihit:lol

[Brazil]

Swiss Germans hate Swiss French. But everyone hates the Italians. They are a dirty group, they are nasty and disgusting no matter which region they hail from, Ticino or Italy proper.

:lol well that escalated quickly

[Brazil]

your capitulation is duly noted Chinook

[Chinook]

To analyse another country's political landscape you need to understand its social ones, the context and the candidates, it's far from the Democrats/Republican US model.

You also need to understand that the vast majority of ppl alwasy vote AGAINST and BY DEFAULT. only en extrem minority (usually left&right extrems) are voting FOR a candidate by idiology.

You also need to understand that this whole generation of politician disgust the ppl more than any prioviouses and that the main factor in people choosing their camp is who their fear the most would take control of the country.

That's the only reason Macron reached power, bc ultimately the French will alwasy chose the least extrem. Melanchon the communist or Lepen the fascist had and have ZERO chance of ever being elected.

You also need to educate yourself on the election system and the 2 turns. Historically the people have used to 1st round to say "fuck you" and the 2nd for the real(listic) choice.

I'm sure you're smart enough to ealise at some point that if so many french ppl tell you that you are wrong it could be worth take a step back and wondering if we could be right. It's A LOT MORE complex than you seem to think.

France is a weird country, very hard to put its people in a box bc of its diversity and complex History

This explanation doesn't make sense. First, I'm not talking about Metropolitan France. That did go for Macron after looking more split. I'm talking about the non-Metropolian areas, and those places went from Melenchon to Le Pen, otherwise known as "from one extreme to the other". I'm very inclined to believe that was a "fuck you" to Macron, but it never got "realistic" as you say. They just said, "fuck you" twice. That they gave Macron the finger twice and then didn't vote for his coalition in 2024 makes me think their opinion of their nation's government is pretty clear.

If four out of five people deny an easy-to-find fact, it doesn't make me doubt that fact. It makes me wonder what they're looking at that prevents them from recognizing that easy-to-find fact. If we took a poll about the cause of the Iraq war, and the vast majority of Americans voted for "It was about spreading freedom to the people", would you then just start believing that's what happened? Or would you think, "Wow, Americans don't understand their own war, I guess"? I would guess the latter. Because we know why it happened, and some shit Donald Rumsfeld said doesn't change that, no matter how many Americans believe it.

[Chinook]

your capitulation is duly noted Chinook

That's one way to put you admitting that French people are probably less able to recognize their nation's imperialism than non-French people.

[Pauleta14]

This explanation doesn't make sense. First, I'm not talking about Metropolitan France. That did go for Macron after looking more split. I'm talking about the non-Metropolian areas, and those places went from Melenchon to Le Pen, otherwise known as "from one extreme to the other". I'm very inclined to believe that was a "fuck you" to Macron, but it never got "realistic" as you say. They just said, "fuck you" twice. That they gave Macron the finger twice and then didn't vote for his coalition in 2024 makes me think their opinion of their nation's government is pretty clear.

If four out of five people deny an easy-to-find fact, it doesn't make me doubt that fact. It makes me wonder what they're looking at that prevents them from recognizing that easy-to-find fact. If we took a poll about the cause of the Iraq war, and the vast majority of Americans voted for "It was about spreading freedom to the people", would you then just start believing that's what happened? Or would you think, "Wow, Americans don't understand their own war, I guess"? I would guess the latter. Because we know why it happened, and some shit Donald Rumsfeld said doesn't change that, no matter how many Americans believe it.

It's an illusion to think you can understand a poeple's view by the results of an election to start with.

Whether that election happens 6months sooner or later of sometimes if the weather is nice on the Sunday (election day on only day of rest) you know the participation % is going to be super low ( and even less representative of the ppl's opinion) you can get complete opposite results

When u have a 51-49 result, you can falsly act as if the winner represents the country's opinion, or u can keep in mind that almost 50% thinks differently.

My point is you need to not only improve your knowledge to get a better picture and more impotantly, even if it's alot more cofortable, I get it, must stop over simplifying a subject that by its essence is uber complex and constantly moving.

As someone told you, it's a national tradition in France to talk politic, as smart as you are you can't compete with our years of added knowledge, the same way even if I have decent knowledge on US politics and history I would take a step back if you tried (respectfully) to explain me how wrong and full of cliches I am.

As for the DOM TOM (oveseas Departements and Territories) France doesn't gain as much as it's added social issues and the people living there not only wanted to remain attached to the metropole but are often more french than many cocasians immigrants.

I don't get your point about the iraq war tbh, we all know the main factor was emotional and the trauma of 9/11 that blinded even the most decent individuals (the representant of France in the UN at that time Dominique De Villepin read an AMAZING letter, full of love and reminding the history of our nations, the fact that France is USA's first histoical ally etc ... just to have a Boycott France and french products campain for weeks...
That should tell you how emotions are a bigger factor than any dogma or political or economical views from the people.

Today FEAR drives every elections all around the world, in part bc every medias have to live off of that fear to make a living just bc it's the most efficient reaction trigger.

[Pauleta14]

That's one way to put you admitting that French people are probably less able to recognize their nation's imperialism than non-French people.

You need to find a bette come bck than that IF you actually read me...

We're still Top10 bad guys in the world

It's never been the point nor have we denied Fance's influence and policy (in Africa in particular but Sarkosy or Macron bent over when NATO asked as well)

[DAF86]

not sure what you are saying here, give me one example of a country where a good portion of the people is not pissed off by immigration ? Even Canada is starting to have issues with that, Switzerland is also a good example of a country who has difficulties with immigration, also well known that German Swiss "hate" italian Swiss and so on...

I'm sorry to tell you that but no, French people don't hate immigrants, that's too large of a generalization... We could dig into the no concept of African French that is mostly linked to a model of integration by assimilation rather than the English communitarism, and as you have seen this model is showing its limits.

I can play the game of who I find more racist... everybody has his list bro... as crazy as it sounds Brazilian are for instance contrary to the appearances extremely racist but this is a diferent form than in Europe, Argentina, Korea are also examples worth to dig into... but that's not really the place here.

This is fun, tbh. Let's keep on it. How is Brazilian racism different from the racism in Argentina, Korea and Europe, tbh? :lol

[Chinook]

You need to find a bette come bck than that IF you actually read me...

We're still Top10 bad guys in the world

It's never been the point nor have we denied Fance's influence and policy (in Africa in particular but Sarkosy or Macron bent over when NATO asked as well)

I didn't reply to you. Brazil in consecutive posts accused me of not being able to call out French imperialism because I am not French and told Sugus that he could recognize Argentine racism because people outside the nation do a better job at recognizing that nation's issues than those inside the nation.

Now if you endorse that contradiction, then yes, that comeback applies to you as well.


It's never been the point nor have we denied Fance's influence and policy (in Africa in particular but Sarkosy or Macron bent over when NATO asked as well)

This may have never been a view you endorsed, but it is one that has been pushed in this thread. Again, if you want me to keep your own personal takes separate, responding to my posts quoting others as if I was quoting you isn't helping.

[DAF86]

Bros, it is simple, countries are all pretty much the same: they all have their racist people and their non-racist ones, their right-wingers and their left-wingers. If you think any country is inherently more racist than another, you are an ignorant fuck, tbh.

[spurraider21]

To the French posters in this thread:


I do think there is a nuanced discussion to be had about Embiid, his letter, the factors that could have led to the letter being written, the response and the geopolitical context of that response. Those elements are all intertwined, and I do resist the attempts to assert they can be separated.

However, I do think it's going to derail this thread if I/we keep harping on it. So I can take the L here in the sense that the folks booing Embiid might be doing it with clean hearts and in good fun solely due to reading a letter, and that I should not have accused them of any consideration of the geopolitical context in which their responses exists. I can also admit that I do not watch soccer despite living in Austin where they keep trying to make Austin FC a thing.
so much for that

[Pauleta14]

I didn't reply to you. Brazil in consecutive posts accused me of not being able to call out French imperialism because I am not French and told Sugus that he could recognize Argentine racism because people outside the nation do a better job at recognizing that nation's issues than those inside the nation.

Now if you endorse that contradiction, then yes, that comeback applies to you as well.



This may have never been a view you endorsed, but it is one that has been pushed in this thread. Again, if you want me to keep your own personal takes separate, responding to my posts quoting others as if I was quoting you isn't helping.

Brazil reacted on your inacuracies and overall simplification of a complex subject along with a form that again seems condescending rather than logically humble on a topic you don't master as much as people who have practiced it all their lives.

You keep using for ex the word Imperialism when it's not adapted to our era at all neither to the way France's foreign policy works. It's always a 2 way road and mostly dodgy businesses that every countries in the world do and we'll never know enough about to have a solid opinion on.

The world isn't the same as 20-30 years ago, thei are lots of new economical and political powerfull places that keep growing, France like most the old europe only chance to survive remains Europe (unfortunately) and most decisions are heavily influenced by Bruxelles as much as Paris

[Pauleta14]

Bros, it is simple, countries are all pretty much the same: they all have their racist people and their non-racist ones, their right-wingers and their left-wingers. If you think any country is inherently more racist than another, you are an ignorant fuck, tbh.

The same applies for everything and especially diff communities, gays, jews, muslims, whatever... Anytime u start your sentence with a generalisation you're doomed to say something stupid.

[Chinook]

so much for that

I tried, and we did stop talking about soccer and shit like that.

[ace3g]

First time in Olympic history Men's and Women's Gold Medal Match is the same countries.

[Chinook]

Brazil reacted on your inacuracies and overall simplification of a complex subject along with a form that again seems condescending rather than logically humble on a topic you don't master as much as people who have practiced it all their lives.

French people are not innately more aware of French imperialism than non-French people. To believe that they are is extremely condescending. Denying imperialism accusations by saying, "*scoff* I think we would know if we were imperialist" is ridiculous. It's not an actual point. It's multiple logical fallacies wrapped into one lazy take. Because you guys believe it's beyond debate, you don't try to defend it. You just think it's self-evidently true, even though Brazil admitted that doesn't make sense in the next post he made.

No. Foreign policy is usually not a part of domestic political discussions in imperialist nations. That's not how politics work. Not in the US, not in France, not in Russia, not in the UK and not in China. There are million upon millions of Americans who don't know how US foreign policy works. Trump was one of those Americans, and he was the president. UK voters not understanding how the EU was helping their economy. Putin doing all kinds of gymnastics to prevent the nation's core from feeling the effects of the war in Ukraine. It's bizarre that French people think they wouldn't have the same situation.

Unless you're a French diplomat, you've never practiced French foreign policy before. Until you guys understand being "I'm French" isn't an argument, there's no headway to be made. But I'm not the one refusing to take in new information. You guys are. You don't believe you have to take in new information, because you assume you already know more.


You keep using for ex the word Imperialism when it's not adapted to our era at all neither to the way France's foreign policy works. It's always a 2 way road and mostly dodgy businesses that every countries in the world do and we'll never know enough about to have a solid opinion on.

The world isn't the same as 20-30 years ago, thei are lots of new economical and political powerfull places that keep growing, France like most the old europe only chance to survive remains Europe (unfortunately) and most decisions are heavily influenced by Bruxelles as much as Paris

The word "imperialism" has changed too. There have always been multiple types of empire. The US's current empire is hegemonic. Rather than acquiring land, we acquire influence over other nations to serve our interests. That's why we never want to annex any of the nations we take and why Trump trying to buy Greenland and invade Mexico were met with shock and outrage. Favorable trade deals? Sure. Your best and brightest? Yessir. Your land? No thanks, we have plenty. That's why words like neocolonial and "spheres of influence" exist.

Not every European nation behaves the same. France as France and not as a member of the EU continues to have its own relationships around the word, and Macron more than most is trying to make that distinction. France is getting weaker, in large part because Putin is squeezing them out of their sphere of influence in Africa. But them getting kicked out of Africa isn't the same thing as them having given up their imperialist ambitions or stance. France's heart isn't changed. Its hands are just tied.

[Chinook]

First time in Olympic history Men's and Women's Gold Medal Match is the same countries.

I was going to wonder if it's the first time a non-US host has had teams in both gold-medal matches, but that's almost the same thing.

[heyheymymy]

USA Women's team is NASTY

Loaded roster and dominant play.

[heyheymymy]

I'm going for France in the Men's game and USA in Women's lol is that weird

Would love to see Wemby get some gold but guaranteed a medal and no less than silver is going to be a good start for Wemby. So glad they got past CAN and GER so Wemby could get some deep playoff experience. This is huge for him to develop and something I feel will definitely translate to the NBA Spurs.

Crazy how nervous he seemed, especially in the Germany game. And then when they advanced to the gold medal game he was so furiously emotional you can tell this is a super formative experience for Wemby.

[DAF86]

2028 Olympics.

Wemby, Traore, Coulibaly, Risacher, Sarr vs the Jason Tatum lead US. Who's winning?

[Robz4000]

2028 Olympics.

Wemby, Traore, Coulibaly, Risacher, Sarr vs the Jason Tatum lead US. Who's winning?

:lol I don't think Tatum ever suits up for the Olympics again after this

[spurraider21]

Tatum was much better in 2021 olympics than 2024. very different roles. in 2021, durant was basically carrying the offensive load and Tatum would fill that role when Durant was resting. he was the most consistent performer for the good guys aside from durant, averaged over 15ppg on 49% shooting. on a team with lebron and durant, there isn't really room for a tatum type player who is a good not great shooter and isnt really a connector type either

the weird part to me has been Booker being completely ineffective and invisible in international play

[spurraider21]

2028 Olympics.

Wemby, Traore, Coulibaly, Risacher, Sarr vs the Jason Tatum lead US. Who's winning?
we can assume wemby will be a monster, but nobody really knows how the rest of those guys will look

by 2028 i would assume Edwards is the lead dog for the US team. there arent going to be a lot of great ~30 year old in their peaks for US, but there will be some up and comers like Holmgren, Banchero, Flagg as well

[heyheymymy]

by 2028 i would assume Edwards is the lead dog for the US team

Not Bronny???

[Sugus]

:lol I'm gonna try to be as neutral as I can but if you ask to a Brazilian who are the most racists people in the world they will start their list with Argentina... Now I managed plants in Argentina, I went there very frequently I never noticed any particular racism BUT if you go to a football arena, that's crazy... argentinean soccer fans are the most racist bunch I've seen in my life. Must be a football thing I guess.

Also easier to see the issues in the others rather looking into our own

I don't think any French would contest French colonialism history but the so called actual neo colonialism is more complex than it seems. And again compared to china, russia, us or even uk.. france is a toddler

Yeah, Brazil vs Arg is a damn old rivalry, and football brings out the worst of it, including xenophobia, sadly. It's one of the reasons I never followed the sport much, a terrible ambient to it - but I argue it's a prevalent thing of football worldwide (hooligans are notorious in many places). Besides football, I've actually had and seen plenty of positive interactions between peoples of both countries, and (I know it's nothing in the grand scheme but) I have friends in Brazil and have learned basic Portuguese myself. Great country.

Otherwise, I'm glad your personal experience confirms what I also think to be true, that Argentinians are remarkably un-racist in a normal setting and everyday life. Especially for a South-American country. I wasn't trying to come at you earlier, just genuinely surprised at Arg being compared to places like Korea, where racism and discrimination are on another level, as is the case in most of Asia.

I've lived in Argentina for close to 30 years, and now having lived less than 3 in Spain, I've seen more direct instances of racism and discrimination from both Spanish and French people, than I ever saw back home. Your point about being easier to see "outside" is true, but the sheer degree of weight on race and "other"ness that you see here is palpably different. I've seen people referrered to as scum, in broad daylight, for their skin color. Just shocking tbh.

Or that shit where French people pretend like they can't understand you if you have the slightest foreign accent, I have a friend who gets mad about that every time :lol

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1822028661148844415

[Chinook]

It's a nice send-off for a guy who almost single-handedly kept the team's streak alive by agreeing to play in Tokyo. Seems like it'll Curry, Booker, Durant, James, Embiid. You'd think Holiday would be better for balancing purposes, but the FNT doesn't exactly have guards to focus on defending. That's an all-offense lineup. Seems like they'll try to jump on France early and coast to a victory.

[The Truth #6]

2028 roster is fascinating to consider. Less superstars could work if there are great role players that buy in to a team concept, but that's sort of antithetical to the American way, reeks of socialism et cetera, so, yes, the future will be interesting.

[Limguogolo]

The next time a crowd chants “air ball” during a missed shot should we call them imperialist? (It's to know.)




Not every European nation behaves the same. France as France and not as a member of the EU continues to have its own relationships around the word, and Macron more than most is trying to make that distinction. France is getting weaker, in large part because Putin is squeezing them out of their sphere of influence in Africa. But them getting kicked out of Africa isn't the same thing as them having given up their imperialist ambitions or stance. France's heart isn't changed. Its hands are just tied.

I will try to summarize your thoughts (excuse me, you like to summarize things that you already don't understand, and I hope that this way you will understand better).

(I'm going to continue talking about “colonialism” because the term you use “imperialism” does not apply to a former great power like France which currently has only minor weight in the world. For talk about the conflictual relationship between France, its institutions, its companies, we then more readily speak of “neocolonialism”.)

The French whistle Embiid nicely because he is an opportunistic and individualistic weathervane. And you find that inappropriate from a former colonizing country towards a person born in one of these former colonies.

And now you tell us about the competition with Putin. So okay, we're starting to see where the mistake lies. You are talking about the presence in the Sahel of the (tiny) French army. Just a few geopolitical details: I have already said that the neocolonial question in Africa today mainly concerns French multinationals working and exploiting resources in Africa. On the purely geopolitical question, apart from Libya (which is not a former French colony), you will find no serious source to assert that France is seeking to impose its views in Africa. France defends its interests in the world like all nations, and sometimes there are scandals, like with other Occidental countries, but this is not part of a general “imperialist” or even neocolonial logic. These are often scandals linked to money, to elites and corruption. France therefore defended its interests in the Sahel because it sought to prevent what had happened in Syria and Iraq: the establishment of an Islamic State on the ruins of a deficient State. Hence, the presence also of Europeans and Americans in the Sahel. This was done with the collaboration of the Nations of the region, precisely because the terrorists operating there seek to shake up the pre-existing nations. Sorry to say it, the French, like the Europeans or the Americans, in the region sought not to impose their views to sell Hamburgers or croissants to Africans, but to prevent the collapse of weak nations and defend international law. They had a UN mandate in the region, so what, the UN is imperialist too?

Westerners failed to dislodge terrorist groups (sorry, we're not Superman), and rightly or wrongly, this destabilized the powers in place who fell to new leaders who came to power after coups and who intends to stay there thanks to the support of Russian militias and a lot of francophobia. I find it damn ironic to be called an imperialist when precisely the West was asserting international law in these countries.

What does this have to do with Embiid? Well actually none. You force the “imperialist” accusation to actually mask a Francophobic criticism, actually suggesting the idea that the French are racist. With the logic itself being racist: Embiid is African, the French are involved in the Sahel, therefore the French do not like Embiid because he reminds them of their failure in the Sahel for the benefit of Putin (a great democrat as everyone knows).

Now, let's talk a little about Embiid since it's his pride hurt by the evil White French imperialist that we're talking about.

Racism in France, we agree to point out that there is indeed racism in France (no more, no less than elsewhere, it is specific and complicated). Would this have concerned Embiid if he had grown up in France? No. Why? Because Embiid is not the cliché of the African who arrived in Europe after a miserable and dangerous journey. Embiid is the son of an army general from Cameroon. He's a sort of son of privileged people and dictators. Before talking about imperialism regarding France, you should have looked at Cameroon's international rankings for human rights. Embiid is not a poor African, he is a privileged one. He first played volleyball. Volleyball for Cameroon must be polo in Argentina or golf in Scotland: it's not really a street sport.

French (and Swiss, and American) universities are full of children of dictators. They are not to be pitied and if France, through its companies, still practices a certain form of neocolonialism, this is also done with the complicity of local elites who then send their offspring to Europe to study or to feast in their embassies. I doubt that Embiid's family who lives in France are in the ghettos, but rather in the chic neighborhoods of western Paris.

He can get whistled at Bercy because he's a clown, he has absolutely no connection with colonization, nor with racism (when you're rich and powerful, racists know how to keep their mouths shut), nor with a so-saying imperialism. He is not a victim, and he does not alone represent all the victims of colonization or racism. There is no point in trying to defend his poor persecuted honor. If you want to preserve the violated dignity of people truly persecuted by malicious powers (even French ones), you have a big choice. But Embiid isn't quite the victim you think he might be. He's a privileged clown, as they say in France, “the king is naked”, so we laugh. Like an air ball. Embiid should recover without too much problem.

[Pauleta14]

French people are not innately more aware of French imperialism than non-French people. To believe that they are is extremely condescending. Denying imperialism accusations by saying, "*scoff* I think we would know if we were imperialist" is ridiculous. It's not an actual point. It's multiple logical fallacies wrapped into one lazy take. Because you guys believe it's beyond debate, you don't try to defend it. You just think it's self-evidently true, even though Brazil admitted that doesn't make sense in the next post he made.

No. Foreign policy is usually not a part of domestic political discussions in imperialist nations. That's not how politics work. Not in the US, not in France, not in Russia, not in the UK and not in China. There are million upon millions of Americans who don't know how US foreign policy works. Trump was one of those Americans, and he was the president. UK voters not understanding how the EU was helping their economy. Putin doing all kinds of gymnastics to prevent the nation's core from feeling the effects of the war in Ukraine. It's bizarre that French people think they wouldn't have the same situation.

Unless you're a French diplomat, you've never practiced French foreign policy before. Until you guys understand being "I'm French" isn't an argument, there's no headway to be made. But I'm not the one refusing to take in new information. You guys are. You don't believe you have to take in new information, because you assume you already know more.



The word "imperialism" has changed too. There have always been multiple types of empire. The US's current empire is hegemonic. Rather than acquiring land, we acquire influence over other nations to serve our interests. That's why we never want to annex any of the nations we take and why Trump trying to buy Greenland and invade Mexico were met with shock and outrage. Favorable trade deals? Sure. Your best and brightest? Yessir. Your land? No thanks, we have plenty. That's why words like neocolonial and "spheres of influence" exist.

Not every European nation behaves the same. France as France and not as a member of the EU continues to have its own relationships around the word, and Macron more than most is trying to make that distinction. France is getting weaker, in large part because Putin is squeezing them out of their sphere of influence in Africa. But them getting kicked out of Africa isn't the same thing as them having given up their imperialist ambitions or stance. France's heart isn't changed. Its hands are just tied.

Just passing by, I'll try to answer later in more detail but... I mean come on... :lol

You can't seriously think invading Mexico has at any point been a serious poject, can you???

[Pauleta14]

2028 Olympics.

Wemby, Traore, Coulibaly, Risacher, Sarr vs the Jason Tatum lead US. Who's winning?

Sarr will suck imo (I don't see the heart in his game) but others will come up

I know it wasn't ur question, but it the only thing I had ^^

[Ice009]

I'm going for France in the Men's game and USA in Women's lol is that weird

Would love to see Wemby get some gold but guaranteed a medal and no less than silver is going to be a good start for Wemby. So glad they got past CAN and GER so Wemby could get some deep playoff experience. This is huge for him to develop and something I feel will definitely translate to the NBA Spurs.

Crazy how nervous he seemed, especially in the Germany game. And then when they advanced to the gold medal game he was so furiously emotional you can tell this is a super formative experience for Wemby.

You think it was nerves and not frustration that he was playing poorly (I should say shooting poorly, as he's played well/great in other areas). I also wonder if he's tired and a bit banged up? I think he is a big game player, so I'm surprised at the way he's shot. Maybe he's trying too hard playing for France on top of everything else? It's been great that he's gotten experience with this deep run. It's what I really wanted for him (I've enjoyed staying up watching all the games [even the pre-olympic warmup games]), but now that they're there in the gold medal game, I believe he can and will play his best game.

Does anyone have any translated news or quotes from any of the French players or coaches on the gold medal game? What their approach is, and what do they think of the challenge ahead? I assume most of it would be in French, so I wouldn't be able to read it myself.

[JPB]

I'm going for France in the Men's game and USA in Women's lol is that weird

Would love to see Wemby get some gold but guaranteed a medal and no less than silver is going to be a good start for Wemby. So glad they got past CAN and GER so Wemby could get some deep playoff experience. This is huge for him to develop and something I feel will definitely translate to the NBA Spurs.

Crazy how nervous he seemed, especially in the Germany game. And then when they advanced to the gold medal game he was so furiously emotional you can tell this is a super formative experience for Wemby.

It is. Just like the experience Chet is getting very early is extremely valuable for him. You improve much faster and better in a competitive environment, not matter your age, because you're lifted up, and understand and get impregnated of what it takes on all aspects.

It's never good to stay and play too long on a losing, dysfunctional environment, which can pull you down.

[JPB]

Does anyone have any translated news or quotes from any of the French players or coaches on the gold medal game? What their approach is, and what do they think of the challenge ahead? I assume most of it would be in French, so I wouldn't be able to read it myself.

(Too lazy to translate myself, so I Google translated, which is pretty accurate).

Victor Wembanyama (centre for the Blues, after the 73-69 victory over Germany ) :

“We have the opportunity to make history. It’s the opportunity of a lifetime. Emotion? It was incredible. An incredible moment. The fans... It’s hard not to want to cry. Changes? We found a way to use our tools, avoiding mistakes, it’s normal for a team to go through this kind of difficulty. Clumsiness? I keep shooting. In a tournament like this, we don’t have much time to train. But my shot is always there in the big moments. Defense and effort? The national team gets that out of everyone. We see how intense we were in the last few matches. It’s something we all feel. We love our jersey, our country. We want to give it our all. The intentions were there, but maybe we weren’t doing it the right way. I’m sure losing to Germany in the group stage helped us win.” (...) They imposed the physical duel in the 7 minutes, then we imposed ours and that was the key. They scored 8 points in the second quarter. If we put these teams at 8 points per quarter, we win everything."

[JPB]

Rudy Gobert (French team pivot) :

“It’s a dream. I remember when I was 13-14, in my bedroom, I started playing basketball and I dreamed of that moment, of playing in an Olympic final, doing it at home and here we are. All the work of the group, of the staff, having been able to overcome the storms, learning from these storms, it leads us to where we are today. The semi-final? They made a great start to the match, it took us a few minutes to get into it and then, our defense brought us back into the score, and when the defense was in place, it stayed there. And we were able to take control of the match little by little. They’re a team of champions so they didn’t give up. They came back at the end but we hung on. Buried too early? All the adversity we have been through in recent weeks, culminating in the defeat against Germany, has brought us face to face with ourselves. When that happens, there are two choices: you crumble or you come together and use it to become stronger."

[JPB]

Evan Fournier (France team fullback) :

“We started badly but we adapted to what they offered and little by little, it widened the gap. Heart? This group was born in 2019. It was our trademark. The number of big matches we played with this team... Since we arrived in Paris, something happened, and we showed our balls. Isaïa? He's gaining confidence. I admit, I've never seen him play like that. He's a guy who works. I'm proud of him, really happy, he's a great guy. He deserves everything he gets. Atmosphere? The free seats (in VIP), it's shameful, but the French who are here are doing an exceptional job, thank you to them. (...) What's important is that it shows that last year, it was a mistake, we made a mistake. The fact of responding is proof that what we were saying was not crap. Collet? His role is preponderant. He has been giving us masterclasses for two matches. (...) We were so euphoric, we wanted to enjoy ourselves with the fans."

[JPB]

Isaïa Cordinier (French team guard) :

“Olympic final? It’s unique! Honestly, not many people believed in us, after the preparation and the group stage, but we stayed confident, we knew who we were, we found ourselves in the quarter-finals, we pressed on the same thing in the semi-finals and damn, we did it! We’re not finished, there’s one more match, a final, at home, in front of our families and the French fans. We’re going to give it our all until the end. The tournament of a lifetime? In truth, it’s my first real tournament, where I was taken from the start. Last year, I replaced an injured player. It’s special for me to take over from my father who did the Olympics in Atlanta. It was always a goal to do the Olympics in Paris, I stay true to myself and it’s paying off today. But above all, it’s still a team victory. A mountain in the final? We don't care. If we stay the thugs that we are, only we can stop ourselves. Public? Incredible, unique... We'll never experience that again in our lives, I think. That's one more reason to tear everything apart on Saturday. The changes? After the group stage, we talked to each other, we told each other things, with the players, the staff, we gave ourselves a common direction. We remembered who we were and it's paying off."

[John B]

2028 Olympics.

Wemby, Traore, Coulibaly, Risacher, Sarr vs the Jason Tatum lead US. Who's winning?

You’re forgetting Sidy :nope

[heyheymymy]

Aside from a clear strategy from some teams to focus on Wemby and deny him the ball... and I still say looks like some nerves are affecting him but agree with what others have said about Wemby playing near year round and fatigue becoming a factor. There was a play in I think the GER game where Wemby needed to recover his position defensively and he went to move his body and it just wasn't following with him. Like Wemby got stuck in quicksand. I get that way sometimes even on my amateur workouts. Like my arms and legs are noodles lol

Not sure when he is going to get some recovery time too with summer camp coming up. Wonder if Spurs build in a little break for him early next season? Nothing extreme but a little mins management for the first month to let him heal up some?

[Ice009]

I just read all those quotes JPB. Thanks for posting them. Gives me a little insight into what is going on.

I see Isaïa Cordinier mentioned his dad was in Atlanta Olympics. Did he also play basketball or a different sport?


It’s special for me to take over from my father who did the Olympics in Atlanta.



Aside from a clear strategy from some teams to focus on Wemby and deny him the ball... and I still say looks like some nerves are affecting him but agree with what others have said about Wemby playing near year round and fatigue becoming a factor. There was a play in I think the GER game where Wemby needed to recover his position defensively and he went to move his body and it just wasn't following with him. Like Wemby got stuck in quicksand. I get that way sometimes even on my amateur workouts. Like my arms and legs are noodles lol

Not sure when he is going to get some recovery time too with summer camp coming up. Wonder if Spurs build in a little break for him early next season? Nothing extreme but a little mins management for the first month to let him heal up some?

I saw that something similar in the last game, and thinking more about what you said (fatigue factor), I think you're right. Those are signs of being tired.

Yeah, I don't know what the Spurs would want him to do as the off-season is the time to work on skills. Maybe they give him a bit of a rest during preseason or something? Not sure how much rest would be optimal and what is the best time to do it?

[JPB]

I just read all those quotes JPB. Thanks for posting them. Gives me a little insight into what is going on.

I see Isaïa Cordinier mentioned his dad was in Atlanta Olympics. Did he also play basketball or a different sport?

Handball player (France finshed 4th in Atlanta).

[Brazil]

That's one way to put you admitting that French people are probably less able to recognize their nation's imperialism than non-French people.

the fact you recognize that all in all you know very little about French culture, history and colonialism or neo colonialism is duly noted. I btw never said that France is not imperialist, just saying there are nuances that you are missing because you don’t know much about it and you take all you know from what American media is feeding you as showed by the embiid story that you missed entirely.

Being condescending when you know what you’re talking about is one thing, being condescending and trying to explain to French people their own country when you know Jack shit is another thing… that is called being a douche to stay polite.

im for one don’t try to lecture you about CBA rules or us bb college prospects, I will nevertheless call you out about on topics like French prospects or French culture because guess what I know better

[Brazil]

This is fun, tbh. Let's keep on it. How is Brazilian racism different from the racism in Argentina, Korea and Europe, tbh? :lol

for Argentina as I said I’m talking only about football fans that I experienced many times, ever experienced anything particularly racist on day to day, Argentineans outside football areas are pretty chill. Brazilian for instance are racist in a condescending way, there is no “hate” per se, they just consider lower class in particularly black are inferior human being… in Europe stuff is more violent and hateful, they consider other races as inferior but also that those Arabs or blacks have a secret plan to wipe out white culture, that they rape the white and steal white jobs… in Brazil or in Korea they consider they are too dumb for that.

[ismael-robert]

All this bs back n forth and no one actually discussing the games n that serbia beat Germany for bronze

[Pauleta14]

You think it was nerves and not frustration that he was playing poorly (I should say shooting poorly, as he's played well/great in other areas). I also wonder if he's tired and a bit banged up? I think he is a big game player, so I'm surprised at the way he's shot. Maybe he's trying too hard playing for France on top of everything else? It's been great that he's gotten experience with this deep run. It's what I really wanted for him (I've enjoyed staying up watching all the games [even the pre-olympic warmup games]), but now that they're there in the gold medal game, I believe he can and will play his best game.

Does anyone have any translated news or quotes from any of the French players or coaches on the gold medal game? What their approach is, and what do they think of the challenge ahead? I assume most of it would be in French, so I wouldn't be able to read it myself.

I think it's 100% nerves, not frustration.

Only shot at a close game vs the US is if he's the poised Wemby we've seen all year. He needs to be more stoic.

[Pauleta14]

All this bs back n forth and no one actually discussing the games n that serbia beat Germany for bronze

Completely forgot about this... 11AM(!!) game tbh

Did u watch it? Quick sump up? thx

[TD 21]

See, this is why I was telling Teeds that "condescending" is too loose of a term.

It's not condescending for me to point out easy-to-find facts about French foreign policy. It is condescending for folks to believe their demographics mean their opinions are unassailable by folks who don't share that demographic.

It's not so much what you say, but how say it (again, though I've explained my reasoning, myself included).

On the flip side, you've somehow gotten away with kicking off and perpetuating this firestorm (from those not involved in it) unscathed. :lmao

[Spurs Homer]

I clicked on a basketball thread - and a bigots convention broke out...

[Ice009]

Completely forgot about this... 11AM(!!) game tbh

Did u watch it? Quick sump up? thx

Crap, I completely forgot too. Not sure if I want to watch now that I got a spoiler :(. I was too focused on France and the gold medal game to remember to watch it. I did want to watch it, but not if I know the result beforehand.

[Ice009]

I think it's 100% nerves, not frustration.

Only shot at a close game vs the US is if he's the poised Wemby we've seen all year. He needs to be more stoic.

I think he can do it and play more poised tonight. Not sure if it's because there wasn't really any pressure in the SA/NBA games, or if it's simply playing in front of the home crowd playing for his country that has gotten him way more emotional in the previous games during these Olympics.

[spurraider21]

your capitulation is duly noted Chinook


That's one way to put you admitting that French people are probably less able to recognize their nation's imperialism than non-French people.
Tbh ima have to side with Brazil on this one

the French are the recognized authority on the subject of capitulation

[Chinook]

It's not so much what you say, but how say it (again, though I've explained my reasoning, myself included).

On the flip side, you've somehow gotten away with kicking off and perpetuating this firestorm (from those not involved in it) unscathed. :lmao

I legit haven't posted in this thread since yesterday because I wanted it to be back on track by the time the games happen.

I guess it needs to run a bit more before folks have their fill.

[heyheymymy]

Bronze medal game replay is on USA channel right now at halftime if you want to catch Germany Serbia

[ace3g]

https://x.com/mikefinger/status/1822340270513373686

https://x.com/FRABasketball/status/1822344032313376946

[Chomag]

Of course I want USA to get the gold but I'm rooting for Wemby to come out and make it very difficult for us and I honestly would be all that mad if he won the gold.

[Chomag]

All in all I'm just hoping for a good competitive gold medal game

[hater]

USA by 45

But still. It's a great thing for Wemby and France to play this game and get the Silver on home soil :tu


Great experience for Wemby :tu

[hater]

Of course I want USA to get the gold but I'm rooting for Wemby to come out and make it very difficult for us and I honestly would be all that mad if he won the gold.

He won't

USA is a lock.

USA by 45

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUoYGqYW4AAZiWP?format=jpg&name=large

[Dex]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/x-FL-l7ERS4AAAAC/and-here-we-go-joker.gif

[ace3g]

Wemby hit his first 3!!!

[MultiTroll]

Great early start for Wama.

USA get Bookerdashian out and put in Tatum.

[LeBowen]

Finally a good start for Wemby.

Hopefully France can make it competitive.

[Ice009]

What an intense start from both teams!

[ace3g]

France like all teams vs USA, has to limit turnovers and transition buckets.

[Ice009]

What a dish from Victor!

[ace3g]

Wemby!!!!

[Ice009]

Holy shit Victor

[ace3g]

What kind of pass was that Batum...

[ace3g]

Oh no Gobert minutes.

[Ice009]

What kind of pass was that Batum...

You can't make those kind of mistakes. Unforced.

[itzsoweezee]

Vic is on fire. Not so much for the rest of the French team. Not sure how they’re going to score on the US

[ace3g]

Don't throw lobs to Gobert around 3 other USA players...

[Ice009]

Man, Victor needs to play the whole game.

[MultiTroll]

Curry is sucking. I would take him out.

[Barfunk]

Won't be mad if USA Golds, but gotta root for our Wemby here

[LeBowen]

Fournier shouldn't handle the ball.

[MultiTroll]

France like all teams vs USA, has to limit turnovers and transition buckets.
Which France is not doing.

[ace3g]

Turnovers costing France...

[Ice009]

Man, Gobert is a stiff. Didn't even try and get that loose ball.

[itzsoweezee]

Fournier has no business dribbling the ball

[hater]

USA by 55 actually

France is toast

[Robz4000]

Wemby has to play the whole game for France to even have a chance tbh.

[baseline bum]

Fournier is terrible. Should dump him right now for Nolan Traore.

[KDKSpurs24]

US can be up 10 or more right now but they’re slacking. So many easy attempts being missed out on. This is bad basketball right now

[ace3g]

Get Gobert out of the game...

[MultiTroll]

Tatum guarding Goober?

Bad strategy by Steffi Kerr.

[hater]

Frenchies choking like it's 1940 tbqh

[Ice009]

Darn, France had plenty of chances. Victor with a long three that would have been huge. He's a lot more decisive tonight. Playing hard. Needs his teammates to come with him. The rest of the guys struggling out there. Why play Rudy now when you haven't played him the last games?

And also, from team USAs side, why start playing Tatum now?

[Pauleta14]

US keep swiching and Wemby as PLENTY of favorable matchups his teammates just ignoring smh

[hater]

Courniers balls shrivelled to the size of Escargots


Smdh

[ace3g]

France needs to keep this within 4-5 points at halftime.

[ace3g]

Bank is open for 3!!!!

[ace3g]

Bilal!!!

[Ice009]

Great shot Yabusele. Victor needs help. Lucky shot there from stazzel, but we'll take it. Let's GO! coulibaly! Sorry if I'm spelling people's names wrong.

[MultiTroll]

USA Meball and missing shots.

France takes the lead!

I'd pull Durbeta.

[Ice009]

Victor on Lebron. Great defense Victor.

[spurs1990]

Wembanyama being ignored in the paint by his teammates. He can take the U.S. everytime just feed him

[Ice009]

Man, Lebron bodied up Victor on that drive. Can't leave their shooters open. Keep the pressure on.

[itzsoweezee]

This commentator is so annoying

[Ice009]

Darn, cannot give Lebron an open run like that.

[hater]

:lmao this France lineup

:lmao


That fucking french fry of a coach :lmao

[Ice009]

Lessort had an easy two but Lebron took it from him.

[ace3g]

France can't help on defense in the paint if their man is Booker, Durant, or Curry.

[Barfunk]

Bad call?

[heyheymymy]

Dude LeBron is the biggest douchebag ever holy shit how unfucking likeable is this guy

[ace3g]

Yuebesele!!!

[LeBowen]

Dude LeBron is the biggest douchebag ever holy shit how unfucking likeable is this guy

He just got destroyed lmao.

[Ice009]

How the FUCK YOU LIKE THAT LEBRON. LEBRON WAS TRYING TO BODY HIM EARLIER IN THE GAME.

[itzsoweezee]

Gotdamn postered lebron

[Pauleta14]

I just witnessed a murder :lmao

WTF Yabu!!!!!!

[spurs1990]

James welcome to your Olympic moment

[Pauleta14]

Fournier is awful at the worst time

[ace3g]

France has to concede 2 pointers and never leave 3 point shooters...

[LeBowen]

France just doesn't have enough firepower.

This won't be close unless Wemby has one of the best games ever.

[Ice009]

Can't make these mistakes. Sloppy play won't get it done. Gotta be sharper.

[itzsoweezee]

Has Fournier done anything positive this game? Just terrible

[Chinook]

I assume that's an unsportsmanlike foul on Fournier?

[Ice009]

Lebron had no respect for Yabu at the start of the game. Hopefully he has some now.

[Ice009]

Victor and Yabusele playing well. Need their teammates to come along.

[SpurPadre]

Weird to see De Culo playing with a Spur again lol.

[spurs1990]

2nd half Wembanyama should take half of their shots. Ride that guy

[Ice009]

Great pass, Victor.

Exstatic, you still don't think Yabusele can play in the NBA?

[hater]

Frenchies sucking tbqh

Yabusele the only Man in the house

Without my man Yabisele France losing by 30+

[widowmaker]

Dude sign the dancing bear wtf.

[Pauleta14]

I assume that's an unsportsmanlike foul on Fournier?

should be

[Ice009]

I think the US is playing better than they did against Serbia, but France I think has played decent on defense, just don't know where the offense can come from? Victor needs to maybe just ride with him and take most of the shots, run the offense through him.

[SpurPadre]

2nd half Wembanyama should take half of their shots. Ride that guy

With Yabusele taking the other half.

[SpurSpike]

Can we trade collins for yabusele?

[Pauleta14]

Great pass, Victor.

Exstatic, you still don't think Yabusele can play in the NBA?

That was the summer to be a free agent

[TD 21]

France obviously has virtually no chance, but the best possible chance is to hopefully keep it close enough entering crunch time to where the U.S. starts feeling the pressure and the 3 geriatrics pretend it's the 10s again and they "got this" and get away from their true strength, which is utilizing their depth.

[LittleCriminal]

I'm going to say it.. The French National team head coach is either brain dead or mentally challenged.. Wtf??

[SpurPadre]

France obviously has virtually no chance, but the best possible chance is to hopefully keep it close enough entering crunch time to where the U.S. starts feeling the pressure and the 3 geriatrics pretend it's the 10s again and they "got this" and get away from their true strength, which is utilizing their depth.

They’re down by 8 not 80.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUpZYHcXgAIeVMJ?format=png&name=900x900

[Degoat]

The Celtics have the rights to Yabusele right?

[ace3g]

Having to deal with a wasted roster spot in Gobert, recently hot players like Cordinier not playing well, + typical transition defensive errors vs USA going to make this tough. Going to have to find 1-2 guards to play well to help Wemby and Yabusele.

[baseline bum]

Would like to know Fournier's plus/minus, dude looks like Point Branham out there

[Ice009]

The Celtics have the rights to Yabusele right?

I think they didn't pick up his option. He last played in the NBA 2019. It'd be more his contract status in Europe, or whatever team he's playing for now?

Ex mentioned that they didn't pick up his option, but that was 4 years ago. My point was, it looks like he's improved since then. If Daniel Theis can play in the NBA (who plays for Germany), then IMO, Yabusele can too. I'd rather have Yabu than Sidy any day of the week. I don't think Lebron had any respect from him at the start of the game, but I would think he at least has a little bit now.

[hater]

I'm going to say it.. The French National team head coach is either brain dead or mentally challenged.. Wtf??

He's just a typical white flag bearing french cuck tbqh

[Ice009]

What a loser Joel Embiid is. Riding the coattails of the other team USA players to a gold medal.

[Ice009]

That was a foul. Lebron didn't need to reach.

[hater]

Lmao Micron and his ape wife :lmao

[ace3g]

Nando 3

[Pauleta14]

I'm going to say it.. The French National team head coach is either brain dead or mentally challenged.. Wtf??

We've all been saying it for years and now bc of the Silver medal he'll be extended for life smh

[Ice009]

Good defense, better offense from KD.

[ace3g]

Another unnecessary turnover.

[heyheymymy]

Embiid drunk out there or something? Keeps getting tangled up w French players

[ace3g]

Gobert, tragic...

[ace3g]

Wemby 3!!!

[szkorhetz]

Wemby is amazing in this game.

[Mal]

Wemby is going path every high end prospect could imagine

[Ice009]

What a stupid play from Coulibaly.

[Rosewood]

Embiid drunk out there or something? Keeps getting tangled up w French players Piece of shit is trying to hurt people. Hopefully we see him writhing in pain on the ground by the end of the game.

[Ice009]

I said Victor would bring it tonight.

[DAF86]

lol taking out Wemby now. Pop type change.

[ace3g]

Stop throwing lobs to Gobert.

[Dex]

Gobert is such trash

[Robz4000]

:lol benching Wemby

[Ice009]

Piece of shit is trying to hurt people. Hopefully we see him writhing in pain on the ground by the end of the game.

Joel is coattailing his way.

[Chomag]

Man with all the cocky antics like dancing after every shot, thumping their chest after every shot they make and crying on every foul call its really making me hate rooting for this USA team.

[heyheymymy]

France with some momentum

[Ice009]

Why would you bench Victor now?

Fuck, big shot Lebron.

[MultiTroll]

Lot of lazy turnovers by both teams this game.

Dissapointing.

[ace3g]

Cordinier can't even make FTs...