Summer League Grades: Spurs vs. Blazers - July 13, 2024

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-blazers-summer-league-grades-4/

[leo07251413]

I mean, I'm from Asia so it's not really my business, but isn't it like 4 or 5 AM in the US?

You don't sleep LJ?

[onechance87]

would like to see castle play faster.I know fans say thats not his game.But i think he can overwhelm defences and get
points for himself and make plays easier if he picks up the temple once he touches the ball.But the playmaking potential
is there for sure.

[JPB]

"If his jumper improves" is gonna be the story of Castle and most NBA players. 8/21 aint gonna do it for a career.

I mean,, that's what BB is mainly about, speciially for guards/wings today: shooting. If you can't shoot, you're useless or a weakness, even as a defensive specialist. So yeah, Castle better (realtively) quicky develop a reliable shoot, Wemby' not gonna wait 4 years before Castle becomes (maybe) a 32% 3 pt shooter...

But I do'nt believe spurs see Castle as a co-star for this team anyway, and I do'nt believe we should. This WAS a weak draft, and the pick doesn't make the player. Castle is probably borderline lottery next year.

[LeBowen]

I usually agree with your takes, but you're way off on this one.


"If his jumper improves" is gonna be the story of Castle and most NBA players. 8/21 aint gonna do it for a career.

Believe it or not, shooting is among the easier things to improve for guards. He'll obviously never be a lights out shooter, but with all the other skills he has, he doesn't need to.
There are numerous guards in the league who were poor or even non-shooters, but eventually became good shooters.
Castle is way ahead of rookie DJ for example.
He's way ahead of Jeremy, obviously.

On the other hand, if a guard comes into the league without natural primary playmaker instincts and the feel for making tough passes, he's never going to learn it.
Way more difficult to develop.
Positive defenders at guard positions are also at a premiuim. Not having to hide your lead guard would be a huge advantage.


I mean,, that's what BB is mainly about, speciially for guards/wings today: shooting. If you can't shoot, you're useless or a weakness, even as a defensive specialist. So yeah, Castle better (realtively) quicky develop a reliable shoot, Wemby' not gonna wait 4 years before Castle becomes (maybe) a 32% 3 pt shooter...

And yet we've seen more limited minutes or even DNPs for bad defenders in these playoffs than ever before.
Even for some of the best shooters in the league, like Buddy Hield.
If you can't defend, you're not playing.

You need to have two out of three skills on a good level to have playoff minutes as a perimeter player.
Plamyking, shooting, defense.
Castle already looks like a natural point guard and will be a parennial all-defense candidate, no doubt about it.

Shooting obviously determines his ceiling, but even as a 32% 3pt shooter he'd be a valuable starter.
You know who else was a career 32% shooter up until this year? De'Aaron Fox. While being a solid defender at best.

Castle first needs to develop that FT line pull up he'll always have due to Wemby's gravity, we don't need him jacking up threes early on.

[HankChinaski]

I was thinking the same thing with Castle. In regards what he should focus more on first the 3 ball and a go to mid-range shot. I was thinking the mid-range shot would really open up his game more.

[RC_Drunkford]

"If his jumper improves" is gonna be the story of Castle and most NBA players. 8/21 aint gonna do it for a career.

I mean,, that's what BB is mainly about, speciially for guards/wings today: shooting. If you can't shoot, you're useless or a weakness, even as a defensive specialist. So yeah, Castle better (realtively) quicky develop a reliable shoot, Wemby' not gonna wait 4 years before Castle becomes (maybe) a 32% 3 pt shooter...

But I do'nt believe spurs see Castle as a co-star for this team anyway, and I do'nt believe we should. This WAS a weak draft, and the pick doesn't make the player. Castle is probably borderline lottery next year.

well the thing is he can shoot. He just has to up his efficiency, which seems easily attainable giving his shooting stroke and ability to knock down shots off the dribble. He might need 2 seasons, but he'll get there eventually. Developing a midrange jumper from the FT line would go a long way, since he can get to his spot with ease.

[Raven]

he's exactly what i hoped he'd be, a poor man's mike conley. Def not a starter this year, but should be getting reps next year

[exstatic]

"If his jumper improves" is gonna be the story of Castle and most NBA players. 8/21 aint gonna do it for a career.

I mean,, that's what BB is mainly about, speciially for guards/wings today: shooting. If you can't shoot, you're useless or a weakness, even as a defensive specialist. So yeah, Castle better (realtively) quicky develop a reliable shoot, Wemby' not gonna wait 4 years before Castle becomes (maybe) a 32% 3 pt shooter...

But I do'nt believe spurs see Castle as a co-star for this team anyway, and I do'nt believe we should. This WAS a weak draft, and the pick doesn't make the player. Castle is probably borderline lottery next year.

You realize that 8/21 is 38%, and would do just fine as a career 3 point mark, right?

[spurraider21]

he's exactly what i hoped he'd be, a poor man's mike conley. Def not a starter this year, but should be getting reps next year
Have you ever watched Mike Conley play?

[spurraider21]

You realize that 8/21 is 38%, and would do just fine as a career 3 point mark, right?
8/21 was his numbers from the field yesterday

[exstatic]

8/21 was his numbers from the field yesterday

:tu The context was unclear, since we mostly seem interested in his 3 point shooting.

[spurraider21]

:tu The context was unclear, since we mostly seem interested in his 3 point shooting.
In his 3 summer league games he has shot 37% from the field and 25% from 3

[JPB]

I usually agree with your takes, but you're way off on this one.



Believe it or not, shooting is among the easier things to improve for guards. He'll obviously never be a lights out shooter, but with all the other skills he has, he doesn't need to.
There are numerous guards in the league who were poor or even non-shooters, but eventually became good shooters.
Castle is way ahead of rookie DJ for example.
He's way ahead of Jeremy, obviously.

On the other hand, if a guard comes into the league without natural primary playmaker instincts and the feel for making tough passes, he's never going to learn it.
Way more difficult to develop.
Positive defenders at guard positions are also at a premiuim. Not having to hide your lead guard would be a huge advantage.



And yet we've seen more limited minutes or even DNPs for bad defenders in these playoffs than ever before.
Even for some of the best shooters in the league, like Buddy Hield.
If you can't defend, you're not playing.

You need to have two out of three skills on a good level to have playoff minutes as a perimeter player.
Plamyking, shooting, defense.
Castle already looks like a natural point guard and will be a parennial all-defense candidate, no doubt about it.

Shooting obviously determines his ceiling, but even as a 32% 3pt shooter he'd be a valuable starter.
You know who else was a career 32% shooter up until this year? De'Aaron Fox. While being a solid defender at best.

Castle first needs to develop that FT line pull up he'll always have due to Wemby's gravity, we don't need him jacking up threes early on.

I'm also on the same line as you're usually are, almost word for word most of the time, but regarding that topic, I actually wanted to ask in my post what ACTUAL star/ difference maker is a non, or even average, shooter in this league... Since I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing here and all the names you bring are role players, including Dejounte who's shown he's not a real difference maker or that second star, let alone Sochan.

And yes, you can improve shooting but a few percents can go a long way and looking at the league, I'm not seeng many (real) stars who can help you ring who are average at shooting... All gifted that he is, Irving was a non factor with his bad shooting outings in the finals, while BOS had shooters all over the floor (OK, Tatum wasn't that great)

Then regarding other facets of Castle game (notably playmaking), let's cool down a bit too here. He didn't come as a natural PG, and it's not because he somehow hold his own and was OK against summer league no names that he suddently became a natural playmaker. He can become a decent one but that'll never be an elite, natural PG. That's not his niche or future in the NBA... If spurs get a Nolan type player next year, Castle will play 2/3 as a spur.

I mean, Sidy's playmaking and passing was also praised last summer league to such a point you could hear Boris comparisons. And now Castle is "Russell Westbrook, but with skills". Wow, easy guys, it's summer league and it's fortunate the kid can play basketball, that's why he was drafted. But Let's Castle show he can even be a starter before going bananas.

[exstatic]

I'm also on the same line as you're usually are, almost word for word most of the time, but regarding that topic, I actually wanted to ask in my post what ACTUAL star/ difference maker is a non, or even average, shooter in this league... Since I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing here and all the names you bring are role players, including Dejounte who's shown he's not a real difference maker or that second star, let alone Sochan.

And yes, you can improve shooting but a few percents can go a long way and looking at the league, I'm not seeng many (real) stars who can help you ring who are average at shooting... All gifted that he is, Irving was a non factor with his bad shooting outings in the finals, while BOS had shooters all over the floor (OK, Tatum wasn't that great)

Then regarding other facets of Castle game (notably playmaking), let's cool down a bit too here. He didn't come as a natural PG, and it's not because he somehow hold his own and was OK against summer league no names that he suddently became a natural playmaker. He can become a decent one but that'll never be an elite, natural PG. That's not his niche or future in the NBA... If spurs get a Nolan type player next year, Castle will play 2/3 as a spur.

I mean, Sidy's playmaking and passing was also praised last summer league to such a point you could hear Boris comparisons. And now Castle is "Russell Westbrook, but with skills". Wow, easy guys, it's summer league and it's fortunate the kid can play basketball, that's why he was drafted. But Let's Castle show he can even be a starter before going bananas.

Jimmy Butler. 12 seasons, and only one could be considered good percentage 3 point shooting with acceptable volume, his 6th year. Career 32.9% from 3. Six time All NBA selection.

[Darkwaters]

Castle wasn't shooting it very well at all yesterday. And not just from 3. I counted two air balls and a third shot that just barely glanced the front of the rim. And his first 3 ball wasn't especially close.

It was a strange night for him as he hasn't looked that poor with his inside the 3 pt line shooting before.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know how Cissoko can be a professional basketball player for years and still not know how to shoot. His knee is clearly feeling good because his movement is shocking on both ends. He set the tone for that blowout.

Castle's stats show how inefficient he is, but he passes the eye test in every way. Murray didn't look this good in SL. Leonard didn't look this good in SL. It isn't an indication of where he will end up but all the tools are there for him. The biggest problem he is going to have is likely our wanting to push him to develop faster and being disappointed if he isn't an all star by next season.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/tjonesonthenba/status/1812296391705895216?s=46
^Jazz Athletic writer

https://x.com/jcrossover/status/1812327791255580933?s=46

As Castle gets more exposure, the amount of props from players and media is going to continue to rise

[LeBowen]

ACTUAL star/ difference maker is a non, or even average, shooter in this league... Since I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing here and all the names you bring are role players, including Dejounte who's shown he's not a real difference maker or that second star, let alone Sochan.

As I mentioned before, De'Aaron Fox was a 32% career shooter up until this season.
Exstatic mentioned Jimmy.
Demar's issue isn't lack of 3pt shot, but being a traffic cone on defense.
Jrue was a career 34% shooter before he got to Milwaukee at the age of 30.


And yes, you can improve shooting but a few percents can go a long way and looking at the league, I'm not seeng many (real) stars who can help you ring who are average at shooting... All gifted that he is, Irving was a non factor with his bad shooting outings in the finals, while BOS had shooters all over the floor (OK, Tatum wasn't that great)

Kyrie was a non-factor because he's a 6'2 guard who's a negative on defense even on his best day.
Luka is 6'7 and his defense was just ugly to watch. He gave up most of the points he created on offense.

How many primary ballhandlers are all-defense level in today's league?
Celtics have two and guess what, they just won a ring.
Yeah, Derrick's shooting improvements are amazing to see, but they didn't trade for him because of his shooting.
Edwards isn't a lead guard, but we can add him to the list. And obviously SGA.
Castle already looks to be a better playmaker than Suggs and has 2 or 3 inches on him.


Then regarding other facets of Castle game (notably playmaking), let's cool down a bit too here. He didn't come as a natural PG

He absolutely did. He was a natural point guard all the way up to last year with UConn.


and it's not because he somehow hold his own and was OK against summer league no names that he suddently became a natural playmaker.

He was up against SL competition, but his teammates aren't any better.
When it comes to playmaking, the level of defense doesn't really matter if we're looking at someone's decision making, pass timing and accuracy.
He's just a natural. Full speed passes, shovel passes, bounce passes, cross-court skip passes, dump off, even a few lobs. All looked well-timed.

And while his shooting and offensive game needs work, he never looked like he's in a hurry. Has that snake dribble to easily get into the paint and at his size, there's not much defenders can do once he gets there.


He can become a decent one but that'll never be an elite, natural PG.

What's a natural PG? We don't need a heliocentric point guard to average 10 assists. We need Castle to become a Jrue type point guard and we're close to being unstoppable.


That's not his niche or future in the NBA... If spurs get a Nolan type player next year, Castle will play 2/3 as a spur.

Forget about Nolan, what we need are wings.
If we don't get Markkanen, we need someone similar.
6'8-6'10 shooters that aren't a negative on defense is all we need if Castle and Devin develop.


I mean, Sidy's playmaking and passing was also praised last summer league to such a point you could hear Boris comparisons.

ESPN are unserious and don't know shit.
Sidy's passing is good for a SRP wing, but nowhere near good enough for the big league.


And now Castle is "Russell Westbrook, but with skills".

Noone said that.

[spurraider21]

Is shooting was a known issue and wasn’t going to vanish between the draft and summer league. The other question was the point guard chops and through three games it’s hard to be anything but encouraged in that department.

[Uriel]

The way that Castle handles the ball, creates plays for himself and others, and is able to produce at a high level in summer league (despite still being a teenager!) makes it clear to me that he's a budding star. I know much has been said about his jumper, but the form looks fine to me. With enough reps, I'm confident it will improve.

[Mugen]

The old man buttering Sidy up during his interview makes me think his spot is secure heading into next year. But I'd cut him if he doesnt show anything in training camp tbh. Maybe it's the knee injury but I haven't see much improvement at all from Year 1 > Year 2.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/kevinoconnornba/status/1812505586581614925?s=46

[exstatic]

The old man buttering Sidy up during his interview makes me think his spot is secure heading into next year. But I'd cut him if he doesnt show anything in training camp tbh. Maybe it's the knee injury but I haven't see much improvement at all from Year 1 > Year 2.

He’s mostly guaranteed like 85-90%, so he’s probably not going anywhere. I see him as a cap and roster spot casualty next summer, though.

[Uriel]

The old man buttering Sidy up during his interview makes me think his spot is secure heading into next year. But I'd cut him if he doesnt show anything in training camp tbh. Maybe it's the knee injury but I haven't see much improvement at all from Year 1 > Year 2.
Sidy’s been more impressive to me than Ingram, at least. While I think Sidy can still develop into a worthwhile NBA player if he puts everything together, Ingram in my mind won’t be long for this league.

[Mr. Body]

Overall. Why isn't Scoot playing? Is Sharpe still hurt? Portland deciding they're just too good for this level?

Bouyea. I like what he has. Maybe not NBA material, but a deep bench player who does the right things all around the court. He's already 25 so the ship has probably sailed, but he's good. Dude needs to just shave it bald though.

Ingram. I like him overall, a smart player who will do better with more structure, but probably too limited physically for this level.

Cissoko. I see what Pop means about his physical gifts, but unless he can be effective in the halfcourt setting I don't see it for him. A decent swing, though.

Castle. Uncharacteristic sloppiness down the stretch. Two balls outright thrown away, not something I've seen from him, and bad shots. Still not worried about his shooting at all. Playing a new level and pace, sometimes players think about what they're doing on the floor rather than getting the shot right. I remember him being very good at midrange and fully expect him to be nailing those high paint touches before long.

Driving me crazy how close he is getting 8-second violations nearly every time getting to the timeline. Jesus Christ, dude. He also lacks the burst to manufacture offense from a standstill; he needs picks to activate. But once he gets going, though, his strength is really hard to handle for many of these guards. They bounce right off him. Playing with Wemby and Vassell will carve out space enough for him to be a menace. Active on the boards. Down low superb at spotting skip passes and placing them so far. A ton to like here.

[Mr. Body]

https://x.com/kevinoconnornba/status/1812505586581614925?s=46

Good stuff. That pass at :47 for example, he makes it because of sensing where everyone is stationed and focused. If the guy dropped in the lane isn't where he is and looking at the action, he can't make the pass. But he already has a superb knack of sensing what defenders are doing, where they are leaning, what they are attending to. Working with Paul will reap extraordinary rewards for a guy who already has a clear bbiq of many of the little things.

[TD 21]

Sidy’s been more impressive to me than Ingram, at least. While I think Sidy can still develop into a worthwhile NBA player if he puts everything together, Ingram in my mind won’t be long for this league.

Despite Pop claiming that he thinks Cissoko is going to be a "special" player, Ingram has a much clearer path to becoming a legit NBA player (poor man's Barnes?) because while both have the frame to defend power wings and will have to make it as off ball players, he's at least a theoretical shooter as opposed to a non one.

[John B]

Sidy should get a higher grade with his defense. At times I’ve seen him banging with Clingan. I’m not sure he lost weight coz he sure looks strong defending his post.

And those asking Castle to speed it up, he has the perfect tempo. He looks big out there and will only get stronger. Comp to Jimmy Butler is warranted with the better court vision.

And Mensah played great outplaying Clingan. Many thought it would be lopsided. But the Spurs are showing great defense, that includes Bouyea!! Way to start the Las Vegas Summer League.

[onechance87]

would like to see the same starting lineup today,Cause man they looked good defence wise and moving the ball.

[John B]

Despite Pop claiming that he thinks Cissoko is going to be a "special" player, Ingram has a much clearer path to becoming a legit NBA player (poor man's Barnes?) because while both have the frame to defend power wings and will have to make it as off ball players, he's at least a theoretical shooter as opposed to a non one.

Sidy has the better court vision and passing, and maybe stronger defender too and high motor.

[TD 21]

Sidy has the better court vision and passing, and maybe stronger defender too and high motor.

I'm aware. As I said though, for off ball players, it's going to come down to being able to space the floor and Cissoko is a lot further away from that from Ingram.

[onechance87]

sidy cisskko is pretty much wesley just a wing.Guy gotta make the open shots if hes on the court.

[RC_Drunkford]

the thing people miss is his ability to manipulate the defense. He's already elite at that. Looking the other way, then making one handed skip passes out of a live dribble to the corners. That's elite playmaking. Putting his defenders on his hip, navigating screens, finishing through contact. You don't expect a prospect of his age to be this advanced in that department.

[palangi]

They need to develop Sidy into a Bruce Bowen type role. Defensive savant that can kill it in the corner three. Sidy is more athletic than Bruce. He’s just got to spend hours and hours shooting corner 3’s.

[RC_Drunkford]

They need to develop Sidy into a Bruce Bowen type role. Defensive savant that can kill it in the corner three. Sidy is more athletic than Bruce. He’s just got to spend hours and hours shooting corner 3’s.

he first has to work on not hitting the backboard

[Mugen]

Castle's locker should be right next to CP0s. Rook should soak in as much as he can for however long Paul is here tbh. The playstyle, the pace, mentality, etc. is pretty damn similar except Castle is half a foot taller tbh.

[kobyz]

I hope Castle is not the next Evan Turner

[Pauleta14]

I'm also on the same line as you're usually are, almost word for word most of the time, but regarding that topic, I actually wanted to ask in my post what ACTUAL star/ difference maker is a non, or even average, shooter in this league... Since I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing here and all the names you bring are role players, including Dejounte who's shown he's not a real difference maker or that second star, let alone Sochan.

And yes, you can improve shooting but a few percents can go a long way and looking at the league, I'm not seeng many (real) stars who can help you ring who are average at shooting... All gifted that he is, Irving was a non factor with his bad shooting outings in the finals, while BOS had shooters all over the floor (OK, Tatum wasn't that great)

Then regarding other facets of Castle game (notably playmaking), let's cool down a bit too here. He didn't come as a natural PG, and it's not because he somehow hold his own and was OK against summer league no names that he suddently became a natural playmaker. He can become a decent one but that'll never be an elite, natural PG. That's not his niche or future in the NBA... If spurs get a Nolan type player next year, Castle will play 2/3 as a spur.

I mean, Sidy's playmaking and passing was also praised last summer league to such a point you could hear Boris comparisons. And now Castle is "Russell Westbrook, but with skills". Wow, easy guys, it's summer league and it's fortunate the kid can play basketball, that's why he was drafted. But Let's Castle show he can even be a starter before going bananas.

I agree with most your points but do we need Castle to become a star?

We have a non traditional star big man that doesn't requires to have a traditional PG, we need Castle to be a link on offense and take advantage of the many open looks he'll get, not to go 1vs1 all the time or be a floor general.

I see his ceiling as a very very good maybe elite role player and that would be an amazing outcome for the Spurs

+ We don't need anothe star, we need a lot of very good, high IQ, highly skilled role players (like Lauri). Wemby doesn't even act like a star, why bring one that could mess up eveything with ego trips?

[Pauleta14]

BTW it might have been said already but Pop's description of Sidy is hillarious and sums up PATFO's taste perfectly, he loves everything about him.... but he can't shoot the damn ball :lmao

[Ice009]

BTW it might have been said already but Pop's description of Sidy is hillarious and sums up PATFO's taste perfectly, he loves everything about him.... but he can't shoot the damn ball :lmao

lol. Very true.

I also agree with that you wrote in your previous post too.

[Mal]

Sidy is a bust, face the truth

[BackHome]

I agree with most your points but do we need Castle to become a star?

We have a non traditional star big man that doesn't requires to have a traditional PG, we need Castle to be a link on offense and take advantage of the many open looks he'll get, not to go 1vs1 all the time or be a floor general.

I see his ceiling as a very very good maybe elite role player and that would be an amazing outcome for the Spurs

+ We don't need anothe star, we need a lot of very good, high IQ, highly skilled role players (like Lauri). Wemby doesn't even act like a star, why bring one that could mess up eveything with ego trips?

We need better talent and that is probably only come through the draft ..........

[BackHome]

Sidy is a bust, face the truth

Yeah, he is not looking good but I always new he was a three year project so lets see how much progress he can make and see where he is at end of this upcoming season

[Pauleta14]

We need better talent and that is probably only come through the draft ..........

It's the safe and patient way indeed, but u can also get one via trade...

I keep thinking of the impact Lauri could have, just this move can change everthing.

[exstatic]

Yeah, he is not looking good but I always new he was a three year project so lets see how much progress he can make and see where he is at end of this upcoming season

His contract this season is mostly guaranteed, like 85%, but next year he’s non guaranteed. He’s got to show better shooting, a lot better, and better half court offense. If not,he’ll likely be a roster spot and cap casualty.