Grading the Off-Season (as of Mid July)

[scott]

Barring any trades, looks like our offseason is done. Here's a recap of what we did and our presumptive opening camp roster. Ignoring the two-way guys we lost like Duke and Gray.

OUT:

Dom Barlow
Devonte' Graham
Cedi Osman
2024 FRP (#8 overall)
2024 SRP (#35 overall)
2025 SRP (Originally belonging to NOP)

IN:

Chris Paul (FA)
Harrison Barnes (Trade)
2031 Unprotected FRP Swap from SAC (part of Barnes trade)
Stephon Castle (#4 Pick)
2030 Top-1 Protected Pick Swap from MIN
2031 Unprotected FRP from MIN
Juan Nunez (#36 overall pick, acquired from #35)
Cash
Harrison Ingram (#48 overall, 2-way contract)

Presumptive Training Camp Depth Chart (who is starting/positions not all that important for this purpose):

Paul/Jones/Wesley
Vassell/Castle/Branham
Barnes/Johnson/Champagnie/Cissoko
Sochan/Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama/Collins/Bassey

[CGD]

Context matters, and here the Spurs have decided that next year is another building one. Smart.

In my view then, it’s a clear A

[sfernald]

Getting Castle is not bad but I would have preferrred if they had moved up somehow and gotten Sheppard. I grade Sheppard just a little bit higher just cause of the gravity of his potential curryesque shooting.

i would have much preferred if they drafted Matas at #8. I think he’s gonna be a star.
Wemby, Sheppard and Matas would have been a top three that maybe could have got them a championship eventually without needing to add a costly player like Lauri. I think Wemby, Castle and Matas might too and that was within their grasp.

I would have preferred if they didn’t pre trade their first second rounder and then they would have been able to draft Furphy.

Drafting Ingram with their last pick was fine.

So ideally I would have liked them to come out with Sheppard/Castle, Buzelas, Furphy and Ingram.

Then I would have liked them to trade Tre or Collins all or partially into a teams caps space to make up for the six million they gained from keeping #8. If it cost three or four seconds that would be fine.

Then still continue with the rest of their offseason, signing CP3 and trading for Barnes.

I would rank that an A offseason. This offseason was okay. I give it a B or B- assuming it’s completed. It could still go up to an A tho.

[LeBowen]

C

I can understand not wanting to pick at #8, but not taking a swing wth #35 is just unexplainable.
Could've moved Wesley to the Bulls if cap space was the issue. Nunez pick lowers the grade.

On the other hand, I love Barnes pickup and getting another unprotected FRP swap in the process is great.

I don't expect much else to happen, but I want Markkanen.
If he goes somewhere else in a reasonable trade, grade will go lower.

[spurraider21]

i'll give it a C. its a passing grade.

i think taking Castle at 4 was fair. to me, there was a tier drop between Sheppard and Castle, so it was frustrating the way the draft went, but the Castle pick is fine. i just really thought it made sense to make use of the #8 pick, even if they never wanted Dillingham who would have been my top choice there. i dont think our current pipeline of players is particularly great. getting an extra swing now vs 2031 would have been nice. i think that was a blunder. and then their handling of the 2nd round picks has been just really awful for the 2nd straight year.

i really like the addition of Paul. heck i wanted to trade for him last year at that bloated salary. i thought this year was probably a year too late for him, but getting him at 11mil instead of 30 makes up for that quite a bit.

it seems the harrison barnes trade was a fallback plan after some other stuff failed, like the alleged attempt to go after Paul George (something i am also a big fan of). as its been said by others, i think the Barnes trade was a very good salvage job as after plan A failed. seriously. go to the Sacto Kings subreddit, search for any post relating to harrison barnes or even the derozan trade, and just read how unanimously and effusively beloved Barnes is there. thats not by accident. i would have taken him for free. throw in a future unprotected swap and its just brilliant

and then i would have liked just a little more ambition at the bottom of the roster. i actually like bassey over barlow on the court, but that knee...

will be nice to see how the two way spots unfold. Ingram almost certainly will be one. would very much like to see Minix get a spot. and while they currently have Bouyea there and he has looked solid in summer league, tbh id like to get somebody like Duke there instead

[TD 21]

Between a B and a C (call it a B- or C+). It was about what I expected in terms of tenor and it has a better chance than not of being a passable bridge to next off season . . . but a similar showing at that point won't cut it.

[vy65]

i'll give it a C. its a passing grade.

i think taking Castle at 4 was fair. to me, there was a tier drop between Sheppard and Castle, so it was frustrating the way the draft went, but the Castle pick is fine. i just really thought it made sense to make use of the #8 pick, even if they never wanted Dillingham who would have been my top choice there. i dont think our current pipeline of players is particularly great. getting an extra swing now vs 2031 would have been nice. i think that was a blunder. and then their handling of the 2nd round picks has been just really awful for the 2nd straight year.

i really like the addition of Paul. heck i wanted to trade for him last year at that bloated salary. i thought this year was probably a year too late for him, but getting him at 11mil instead of 30 makes up for that quite a bit.

it seems the harrison barnes trade was a fallback plan after some other stuff failed, like the alleged attempt to go after Paul George (something i am also a big fan of). as its been said by others, i think the Barnes trade was a very good salvage job as after plan A failed. seriously. go to the Sacto Kings subreddit, search for any post relating to harrison barnes or even the derozan trade, and just read how unanimously and effusively beloved Barnes is there. thats not by accident. i would have taken him for free. throw in a future unprotected swap and its just brilliant

and then i would have liked just a little more ambition at the bottom of the roster. i actually like bassey over barlow on the court, but that knee...

will be nice to see how the two way spots unfold. Ingram almost certainly will be one. would very much like to see Minix get a spot. and while they currently have Bouyea there and he has looked solid in summer league, tbh id like to get somebody like Duke there instead

This is spot on. The only thing I would add that might move this to a C/C- is not taking Furphy at 35. The team badly needs shooting, he's having a good summer league, and would have, at the very least, provided some more competition for assholes like Branham who seem to have a roster spot by birthright rather than merit.

[Russ]

A solid B (although I am a Spurs homer).

They addressed the roster without creating any potential conflict, any trauma, by freaking out the young guys by bringing in other (but more established) young guys.

They brought in old guys who could not be seen as any long-term threats.

They hit the Spursy very conservative sweet spot.

They successfully focussed on long-term development.

[scott]

i'll give it a C. its a passing grade.

i think taking Castle at 4 was fair. to me, there was a tier drop between Sheppard and Castle, so it was frustrating the way the draft went, but the Castle pick is fine. i just really thought it made sense to make use of the #8 pick, even if they never wanted Dillingham who would have been my top choice there. i dont think our current pipeline of players is particularly great. getting an extra swing now vs 2031 would have been nice. i think that was a blunder. and then their handling of the 2nd round picks has been just really awful for the 2nd straight year.

i really like the addition of Paul. heck i wanted to trade for him last year at that bloated salary. i thought this year was probably a year too late for him, but getting him at 11mil instead of 30 makes up for that quite a bit.

it seems the harrison barnes trade was a fallback plan after some other stuff failed, like the alleged attempt to go after Paul George (something i am also a big fan of). as its been said by others, i think the Barnes trade was a very good salvage job as after plan A failed. seriously. go to the Sacto Kings subreddit, search for any post relating to harrison barnes or even the derozan trade, and just read how unanimously and effusively beloved Barnes is there. thats not by accident. i would have taken him for free. throw in a future unprotected swap and its just brilliant

and then i would have liked just a little more ambition at the bottom of the roster. i actually like bassey over barlow on the court, but that knee...

will be nice to see how the two way spots unfold. Ingram almost certainly will be one. would very much like to see Minix get a spot. and while they currently have Bouyea there and he has looked solid in summer league, tbh id like to get somebody like Duke there instead

I forgot about that swap from SAC! Added into the original post.

[Ariel]

C

I can understand not wanting to pick at #8, but not taking a swing wth #35 is just unexplainable.
Could've moved Wesley to the Bulls if cap space was the issue. Nunez pick lowers the grade.

On the other hand, I love Barnes pickup and getting another unprotected FRP swap in the process is great.

I don't expect much else to happen, but I want Markkanen.
If he goes somewhere else in a reasonable trade, grade will go lower.
I pretty much agree with all of this. I'll add that I think of Castle as BPA at 4, and that I'd consider trading #8 as an "incomplete" until we see what they do with the return.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

It's too early to grade. Keldon and Collins will be traded. Spurs wants to compete this season. There is no way they keep these two guys.

Realistically and ideally, they will be traded for Lauri. If this happens, I will give a A+ grade.

But in case this falls through, I believe Spurs already had plan B. Trade Keldon + 2 FRPS for Cam Johnson; Trade Collins + Cash + 1 FRP for Bucks's Lopez. This will still be a solid A.

[jesterbobman]

I think there's two prongs to evaluating the offseason. Direction, and execution.

Direction:
Probably roughly 3 paths - what we did, mid point (take 2 picks in R1, take guys who'll play this year in round 2, one big FA swing), trade lots of assets for a guy (Seemingly, 4 picks + for Lauri).

Chose to essentially focus on another rebuilding season, with adding future draft capital, one top level rookie (rather than two) and competent vets. Likely to be a fringe playing team, depending largely on internal growth, ensuring that there's 48 minutes of competent PG play, didn't churn through the roster.

I think the direction is fine. I think the mid point of using both picks (or, in general a bit more of a refresh of deep bench) would've been a bit better, but I think the end of patience is better than being all in. Wemby had incredible moments last year, but he's approaching top 10 player, rather than top 1, and we didn't have a reasonable path to a roster around him that would compete.

Execution: Got competent vets who fit the leadership role very well (Don't think you could do much better than CP3). Extra assets are pretty good (complicated by already having the Dallas swap), clearly a focus on ensuring a pipeline for Victors prime. Moved into having competent NBA play for most minutes (though, unlikely to be above average at most positions).

Overall: B.

Clear understanding of where they are, a focus on the long term, and acknowledging that they needed more structure and player leadership. Decent asset play for upside, though Minnesota is unlikely to be worse than #8 in 2031 (are there 32 teams by then? Will an Ant led team in his prime be a bottom quarter team? Secondary swap option with Dallas already there is complicated). Banking on Sacramento being bad in 2031 is sensible (historically poorly run, not a clear A1 star or path to excellence).

Questions on direction (several years building to this): What is the point of all the second round picks if you're going to not use good ones (33 last year, 35 this year) on prospects? Both Leonard Miller and Furphy are good propsects who would have added to end of bench depth. If you can use them to dump future salary / as trade lubricant that's fine, but just adding a bunch to never use them is silly.
How is shooting valued: We seem to be getting to the early 2010s Thunder model of valuing long dribble pass defend players. Shooting is needed at some point.

2025 Offseason set up: We'll likely have limited cap space, few roster spots (2 picks in, Blake / etc out). Do we seek to move Collins / someone else at the deadline for an expiring (e.g, Collins and 2 seconds for Brook Lopez if Doc still doesn't play Brook) to boost up cap space?

[Ariel]

But in case this falls through, I believe Spurs already had plan B. Trade Keldon + 2 FRPS for Cam Johnson
I like Cam Johnson and think he's a good fit, but that's a wild overpay, especially since Barnes provides some of what would be expected of Cam (spacing, iq... defense, not so much).

[spurraider21]

This is spot on. The only thing I would add that might move this to a C/C- is not taking Furphy at 35. The team badly needs shooting, he's having a good summer league, and would have, at the very least, provided some more competition for assholes like Branham who seem to have a roster spot by birthright rather than merit.
if they took Furph there and came away from the draft with a viable 3&D wing prospect i would have probably gone up to a C+ or B- or somethin. Klintman would have been another good swing there instead of Nunez.

the 4 picks before we took Nunez were Filipowski, Tyler Smith, Kolek, and Furphy. all guys who were regularly mocked to go in the 20s

[Truckules]

It's a B in my eyes. They added some good veterans that have a minimal impact on cap space next offseason and beyond. They even got a potentially good swap for it too. The Castle pick was good but simply a case of taking the obvious choice of the players who were left. History will judge trading the 8th pick. Also, this team still has too many younger players who might not see the floor in order to develop. If they consolidate the younger players at the deadline and/or the swap works out, it could be an A+ but too early to tell.

[Mr. Body]

A.

Great stuff:

Veteran leadership. I'd side-eyed CP3, but never thought he'd sign with us. His addition with Harrison Barnes is going to really bend the learning curve for the whole squad.

Cap flexibility (now). However they came to the cap space, how they used it to scoot DeRozan over to the Kings, pulling a great vet and a future asset is exceptional. The FO continues to do magic tricks with cap space.

Cap flexibility (near term). At some point, I realized, or felt, the team didn't want any new salary beyond this coming year, with Barnes as an exception. Teams are still running from the exploding volcano of the new CBA and they have even more room to stock the cabinets next year.

The Draft. Stephon Castle is easily the right choice for the Spurs and one of the top players in this draft. He's going to fit tremendously for years to come.

Gimme them assets. We should remember how our championship runs were all but over before rabbits came out of the hat and revived things with George Hill, Gary Neal, Danny Green, etc. Those MN and SAC swaps and the MN pick are going to come at exactly the right time.

Uncertain stuff:

The Draft (#8 pick). I fully expected two high rookies to be on the squad this year, but as the draft approached the possibility of truly trading out appeared. I don't think there's been enough press on how truly unusual this was, but I think it was smart. Ditching the cap hold allowed the later move, and I really don't think we're going to miss Cody Williams, Buzelis, Knecht or Dillingham. Wemby will just be touching his prime when we'll get the swap and outright first.

The Draft (#35 pick). I think it would have taken another second round pick to dump Wesley or enough to take a real player at this pick. Ultimately, it worked out when we got Barnes. I'm a fan of Furphy, and I don't like punting on a good prospect, but I just don't think the team wanted any extra salary years this summer.

Verdict:

For an off-season where I was afraid they'd go for Trae Young to one where they picked up Paul and Barnes to provide on-court stability and training, picked one of the best players in the draft, and maintained tons of flexibility. Last year they said they weren't prepping for the next year or two, they were prepping for the next decade, and you see it.

[MultiTroll]

Barring any trades, looks like our offseason is done. Here's a recap of what we did and our presumptive opening camp roster. Ignoring the two-way guys we lost like Duke and Gray.

OUT:

2024 FRP (#8 overall) F. Pathetic. Should have taken a flyer on Edey or another baller.


IN:

Head Coach Pop staying. F. Unless there is some hidden Wemby 2.0 in the 2025 draft.

Chris Paul (FA) Whatever. Highly overated whiner and cheapshot. But the PG postion could only be improved, so I'll take it. 1 year contract good.
Harrison Barnes (Trade) Meh above average.
2031 Unprotected FRP Swap from SAC (part of Barnes trade) WGAF
Stephon Castle (#4 Pick) B+ nice
2030 Top-1 Protected Pick Swap from MIN F. Stupid
2031 Unprotected FRP from MIN C ask us in 7 years. Ya I'm sure some potnetial trading team give a phuck now.
Juan Nunez (#36 overall pick, acquired from #35) Stupid.
Cash
Harrison Ingram (#48 overall, 2-way contract) Inc.

Presumptive Training Camp Depth Chart (who is starting/positions not all that important for this purpose):

Paul/Jones/Wesley Average at best.
Vassell/Castle/Branham Ok, potential, suckass
Barnes/Johnson/Champagnie/Cissoko Ok, trade bait, keep working hard, keep improving.
Sochan/Mamukelashvili Too much marijuana and fruitcake activities / good signing.
Wembanyama/Collins/Bassey A+++ / get off his ass he didn't choose this / whatever hope he gets back to at least 90%.

[DAF86]

Unless they add Markkanen, this offseason has been an absolute F for me. From trading away the picks (imagine if we had Buzelis right now), to adding the type of players I thought were the absolute worse type of addition. So far they have made moves to win around 35 games, not good enough to compete, and not bad enough to get a high pick.

[cutewizard]

we are set guys, we have a great offseason

[cutewizard]

A.

Great stuff:

Veteran leadership. I'd side-eyed CP3, but never thought he'd sign with us. His addition with Harrison Barnes is going to really bend the learning curve for the whole squad.

Cap flexibility (now). However they came to the cap space, how they used it to scoot DeRozan over to the Kings, pulling a great vet and a future asset is exceptional. The FO continues to do magic tricks with cap space.

Cap flexibility (near term). At some point, I realized, or felt, the team didn't want any new salary beyond this coming year, with Barnes as an exception. Teams are still running from the exploding volcano of the new CBA and they have even more room to stock the cabinets next year.

The Draft. Stephon Castle is easily the right choice for the Spurs and one of the top players in this draft. He's going to fit tremendously for years to come.

Gimme them assets. We should remember how our championship runs were all but over before rabbits came out of the hat and revived things with George Hill, Gary Neal, Danny Green, etc. Those MN and SAC swaps and the MN pick are going to come at exactly the right time.

Uncertain stuff:

The Draft (#8 pick). I fully expected two high rookies to be on the squad this year, but as the draft approached the possibility of truly trading out appeared. I don't think there's been enough press on how truly unusual this was, but I think it was smart. Ditching the cap hold allowed the later move, and I really don't think we're going to miss Cody Williams, Buzelis, Knecht or Dillingham. Wemby will just be touching his prime when we'll get the swap and outright first.

The Draft (#35 pick). I think it would have taken another second round pick to dump Wesley or enough to take a real player at this pick. Ultimately, it worked out when we got Barnes. I'm a fan of Furphy, and I don't like punting on a good prospect, but I just don't think the team wanted any extra salary years this summer.

Verdict:

For an off-season where I was afraid they'd go for Trae Young to one where they picked up Paul and Barnes to provide on-court stability and training, picked one of the best players in the draft, and maintained tons of flexibility. Last year they said they weren't prepping for the next year or two, they were prepping for the next decade, and you see it.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Totally agree

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Solid B

If we have offseasons like this every year, then we are going to be golden with cheat code wemby

[ChumpDumper]

I'd give it a B- at this point. A territory would be a Lauri or B. Ingram acquisition. The fallback is keeping most of the powder dry and getting a couple of vets to teach the young'ns short term. Fine for now

[JPB]

Context matters, and here the Spurs have decided that next year is another building one. Smart.

In my view then, it’s a clear A

Building on what? Wesley, Branham, Sochan, Tre, Keldon, Collins...? Or Mamu, Bassey and Sidy? Or the corpses of Paul and Barnes?

It's impossible to grade them because it almost entirely depends on what happens in the future. thats what they build on, future and luck (like when they got Wemby) Do they grab a future star in next year's draft? what if not? Can they trade for one? What if not?

If yes, cool. If not, It's a mess.

[CGD]

Building on what? Wesley, Branham, Sochan, Tre, Keldon, Collins...? Or Mamu, Bassey and Sidy? Or the corpses of Paul and Barnes?

It's impossible to grade them because it almost entirely depends on what happens in the future. thats what they build on, future and luck (like when they got Wemby) Do they grab a future star in next year's draft? what if not? Can they trade for one? What if not?

If yes, cool. If not, It's a mess.

They’ve clearly decided they want to prioritize the 25 draft. Once they chosen that direction, all the other moves made a lot of sense.

Also, Wemby, as good as he is, is not a finished product by any means. Folks here already assume he’s a sure fire MVP next year, but he’s not. Just watch him in the post— still has a ways to go.

And last, yes, this is the year they make decisions on a lot of the guys you mention. I think Keldon and Tre are moved this year, and it’s shit or get off the pot with many of the others. Paul and Barnes are good value at the deadline too.

[SpursFan86]

Pretty much echoing a lot of the sentiments already laid out but a B sounds about right.

Pros: Castle at 4, CP3 on a very reasonable 1-year deal, landing Barnes and a Kings FRP swap for helping facilitate the DDR trade. Ultimately maintained a lot of flexibility going forward into what projects to be a huge 2025 offseason (I know Barnes’s deal is 2 years but it would be very easy to flip if needed IMO).

Neutral: trading away #8…I get the logic, and yes, there’s absolutely a chance this ends up being a home run down the road. Just cant help but feel like there were at least 2-3 guys here that potentially would be a major upgrade over our current end of bench rotation. I know the salary aspect likely played into it.

Cons: Circling back to the point above - I just think we brought back too many deep bench guys and would’ve preferred to see some more turnover. Bringing back every one of Branham/Wesley/Champagnie/Bassey/Mamu is just meh to me. In a vacuum I can defend bringing back any single one of those guys, but bringing ALL of them back was just a little disappointing. It has been mentioned but at pick 35 there were several guys available that were projected FRPs…instead we added a guy who probably never sees an NBA court.

[rascal]

C

The Good Castle, still not a playoff team so will get a 25 lottery pick

The Bad the typical conservative moves bringing back most of the team and not bringing in huge difference makers if you really wanted to make the playoffs this year

[baseline bum]

It's too early to grade. Keldon and Collins will be traded. Spurs wants to compete this season. There is no way they keep these two guys.

Realistically and ideally, they will be traded for Lauri. If this happens, I will give a A+ grade.

But in case this falls through, I believe Spurs already had plan B. Trade Keldon + 2 FRPS for Cam Johnson; Trade Collins + Cash + 1 FRP for Bucks's Lopez. This will still be a solid A.

In what world is Cam Johnson worth 2FRP?

[Mr. Body]

Lol, damn, I'd rather get Harrison Barnes on a free than pay two FRPs for Cam Johnson, or any picks for Cam Johnson.

[ambchang]

I like the castle pick, still not a fan of not picking Cody Williams at 8 or trading Furphy away.

Sort of happy with the Paul trade and thought the Barnes “trade” was highway robbery for us, simply ingenious.

Would’ve liked a young shooter, a starting SF or a backup centre. Not trading Zollins away for assets was a downer (maybe couldn’t have been done), glad keldon is still on board.

[widowmaker]

Hows dillinghams summer league going by the way?

[widowmaker]

Hows furphy”s summer league going by the way? I haven’t bothered to look.

[spurraider21]

Hows dillinghams summer league going by the way?
his shot hasnt been falling, but his passing/creation is as good if not better than advertised

defense has been quite the ride as expected... but he did quite well man to man against jared mccain last game. forced a lot of tough shots

[Ariel]

Hows furphy”s summer league going by the way? I haven’t bothered to look.
Didn't watch Minnesota, but he's been inefficient. Read somewhere that he's been playing through some sort of injury, ankle if I'm not mistaken, and that has affected his speed. But like just about every prospect, we can't read too much into summer league, a couple of months into the season we'll have a much more clear picture.

[widowmaker]

his shot hasnt been falling, but his passing/creation is as good if not better than advertised

defense has been quite the ride as expected... but he did quite well man to man against jared mccain last game. forced a lot of tough shots


Not bad I guess I will be left to wonder if maybe he would have worked out over here.

[widowmaker]

Didn't watch Minnesota, but he's been inefficient. Read somewhere that he's been playing through some sort of injury, ankle if I'm not mistaken, and that has affected his speed. But like just about every prospect, we can't read too much into summer league, a couple of months into the season we'll have a much more clear picture.

Let me see if I can find some highlights. Yeah summer league is summer league but it’s still basketball.

[offset formation]

Matas is gonna be a beast. He was #4 on my board.

[spurraider21]

Not bad I guess I will be left to wonder if maybe he would have worked out over here.
with castle passing the eye test in a point guard role, not sure he would have been their natural 2nd pick anyway. the spurs only "drafted dillingham" at the request of the Wolves to facilitate the trade. while possible he would have been their guy at 8 anyway, may not be the case if theyve thought of castle as a PG all along. cody williams was probably being considered imo

[widowmaker]

with castle passing the eye test in a point guard role, not sure he would have been their natural 2nd pick anyway. the spurs only "drafted dillingham" at the request of the Wolves to facilitate the trade. while possible he would have been their guy at 8 anyway, may not be the case if theyve thought of castle as a PG all along. cody williams was probably being considered imo


They should have just kept the pick instead of panicking and taking draft picks that most likely won’t pan out in 2030, 2031.

[rjv]

i'll cast my vote in april '25.

[spurraider21]

They should have just kept the pick instead of panicking and taking draft picks that most likely won’t pan out in 2030, 2031.
look man we're just going to have to agree to agree on this one

[TimmyBuckets]

LMAO ST will find any reason to hate on this team.

We didn't trade 5 picks, Vassell, KJ, Sochan, The Alamo for Markannen or Trae and and we didn't want Demar, Klay. We gave up #8 pick in a terrible draft for a top-1 unprotected and a pick swap which is amazing. Nothing less than an A. We got CP3 for cheap and we got Barnes and a pick swap for nothing. What else exactly should they have done?

[K...]

Matas is gonna be a beast. He was #4 on my board.

i honestly think boozy was the secret number 8 pick before they traded it away.

[Mugen]

Probably a C+ / B- ....need to see what ends up happening with the Dilly trade assets

The Good:
-Liked the Castle pick though it seemed like a no brainer with who was left on the board
-Reed might end up being the best player of the draft but I wasn't in favor of them trading up to #2 to get him tbh. Can't fault them much if at all if he ends up being really good
-Liked the CP3 pickup but his main contribution will be mentoring Castle
-Like the Barnes deal (but would have preferred Huerter). Im not too annoyed that they ate into next year's cap space.
-Happy that Mamu/Bassey are back and that they kept Champ

The Bad:
-Annoyed that they couldn't find a way to keep Barlow who I think will be the best out of him, Mamu, and Bassey
-Just really hated what they did in the draft after the Castle pick. I liked Dilly but would have been fine if they went with a guy like Carter/Knecht/etc. Not convinced that a team with prime Anthony Edwards is gonna be that bad to make those 2030/2031 assets that appealing.
-Absolutely hated what they did in the 2nd round tbh. Reeks of laziness/cheapness.

[Frenchfred]

i'll cast my vote in april '25.

exactly, the Spurs are tanking again in 2024-2025 and hope to have a top pick.

[Ignazzz]

Weak A

[exstatic]

Not bad I guess I will be left to wonder if maybe he would have worked out over here.

They weren’t ever drafting and keeping Dillingham.

[timtonymanu]

F. Pop is still the coach.

[widowmaker]

They weren’t ever drafting and keeping Dillingham.


Weak. They could have found a spot for him if they are that good at developing.

[K...]

Weak. They could have found a spot for him if they are that good at developing.

Spoiler they aren't and you can't teach size

[Arguendo]

Building on what? Wesley, Branham, Sochan, Tre, Keldon, Collins...? Or Mamu, Bassey and Sidy? Or the corpses of Paul and Barnes?
This poll is really refreshing to see the myopic, impatient, cliff jumpers are WAY fewer than they appear on this board.
Building on what? How about the fucking best defensive player in the league entering his second yr. How about a guy who looks prime to be both the best on O & D. Who else has done that in the modern era? Jordan (maybe DR & Hakeem have an argument in 94/95 but only bc Jordan’s gambling suspension.)

How many fucking teams wouldn't trade positions (Roster + picks + cap situation) with the Spurs?
Bos, OKC, NY, Dal, Min- they all think/hope they can win multi titles in the next 5 yrs. Note all have a young Top6 guy + Brunson/Nova Knicks.
Den, Phi, Orl, Ind- they’re maybes bc they think they can win one more or get to that 1st lvl.
Many of these teams won’t win & will start blowing it up in 2yrs (& the Spurs will have the cap space & the pieces to get into any of those blow-up trades)

Everyone else would absolutely change position with the Spurs. Mil swaps in a heartbeat. Hou has a great War chest & a nice collection of young role players with maybe star potential but they are missing the hardest thing to get, a top #5 player. Spurs have that, the next face of the NBA.

Spurs are in amazing shape, even if you conveniently leave out Vassel & Castle. Good to see so clearly you are nothing but a clown or a troll.

[JPB]

This poll is really refreshing to see the myopic, impatient, cliff jumpers are WAY fewer than they appear on this board.
Building on what? How about the fucking best defensive player in the league entering his second yr. How about a guy who looks prime to be both the best on O & D. Who else has done that in the modern era? Jordan (maybe DR & Hakeem have an argument in 94/95 but only bc Jordan’s gambling suspension.)

How many fucking teams wouldn't trade positions (Roster + picks + cap situation) with the Spurs?
Bos, OKC, NY, Dal, Min- they all think/hope they can win multi titles in the next 5 yrs. Note all have a young Top6 guy + Brunson/Nova Knicks.
Den, Phi, Orl, Ind- they’re maybes bc they think they can win one more or get to that 1st lvl.
Many of these teams won’t win & will start blowing it up in 2yrs (& the Spurs will have the cap space & the pieces to get into any of those blow-up trades)

Everyone else would absolutely change position with the Spurs. Mil swaps in a heartbeat. Hou has a great War chest & a nice collection of young role players with maybe star potential but they are missing the hardest thing to get, a top #5 player. Spurs have that, the next face of the NBA.

Spurs are in amazing shape, even if you conveniently leave out Vassel & Castle. Good to see so clearly you are nothing but a clown or a troll.

Learn to read before getting on you patronizing high horses. And not just this thread. what you're talking about there have been discussed ad nauseam, and in a much more educated, moderate way. You're off topic.

What I was answering to if the idea this year could be used to develop the current roster, as if it was some kind of core, while most of these guys will be gone before 2 years. If it's just to yell: "duh, we have fucking Wemby, fucking picks and fucking cap!" Be patient! Were gonna kick some ass soon!!" Well, thanks, noboby noticed...

And as far as the best postion in the league is concerned, picks and cap are nothing if you don't use them correctly. Not like spurs drafted well these past few years (Wemby is off discussion obviously) and there will be plenty of available stars in the next few years. Luck and opportunities are also big factors (like when we got Vic) it doesn't just depend on you.

We'lll see what happens, how Castle develop and who they can/will pick next year ad/or trade for, but the path to success is not as obvious as you want it to be, specially with an outdated coach ( Sochan at PG, for real?) just because we got Wemby, picks and cap. There's a lot of work anyway, and to my original point, right now there's not much you can build around on this roster. Next year will just be another tanking one.

[drpill]

As it stands, it's a B from me. It certainly falls short of whatever a "perfect" offseason might look like. But the organization has kept its eye on the target -- long term sustained success building around a once in a lifetime player. It's easy to second guess any of these moves but it's not as though there isn't a consistent logic and vision here.

The outcome of the draft was a shock to the system, a reminder that this team is going to zig when you expect them to zag, but in hindsight the vision is pretty obvious -- their focus is on the 2025 draft and they didn't see the need to invest in a second rookie this year when they didn't love the prospects available. I think time will show there were more than a couple of players they could have selected who would have helped considerably, but there is logic behind gambling on future assets in a long term strategy, with so many picks in the next few years in presumably superior drafts. Castle is looking like a very solid choice and I think he will bring some on-court discipline and decisiveness to the team, along with raising the defensive ceiling considerably. No complaints from me there. I wish they could have got a quality shooter with such a high pick, but there were hardly any of those at the top of the draft. The second round was just as mystifying as the first at the time, and it's still challenging to see the logic behind their choices there. Maybe they really love Núñez; he looks like he has a certain offensive creativity that I think they need to place a lot of value on when building around Wemby. What a surprise, though, that he is yet another player who can't shoot. We also seem over-invested at point guard already... Maybe he was a hedge against Castle not working out as a primary ballhandler. Furphy would have made more sense to me considering the roster. Ingram looks like a good guy and he can sort of shoot, so fine, I guess? I don't expect much from him but you never know.

As for other offseason moves, I'm happy about the Paul and Barnes acquisitions. I never thought I'd say that about adding Chris Paul to be honest, but after watching this team's struggles last season it feels like the perfect prescription. It's short-term, development focused, and it's the kind of move that should leave a positive impact on the team throughout the Wembanyama era. Barnes is another steadying hand for a team still learning to play under control. I hope both guys are here all season. Beyond the starters, the rest of the roster is still generally not great, but everything makes more sense with the three new additions and restructured hierarchy. It should give guys a chance to play a more natural role, which may help clear up who belongs and who doesn't.

Overall, could be worse! I think the best case and most likely outcome is still a 2025 lottery selection with the Spurs' natural pick, with plenty of growth along the way. Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle and end up in the playoffs, which is also a nice outcome with plenty of benefits. Should be a very fun season in any event.

[scott]

I've really enjoyed reading everyone else's grades and evaluations - there is certainly a wide range of opinions and rationales, even of similar grades.

I really like how jesterbobman approached his evaluation looking at Direction and Execution, and I'm going to do something similar.

Direction Grade: C

I think the Spurs are taking the most conservative, obvious, safe route that most teams with the luxury of time would take: slow, steady, patient. Essentially, they're trotting down the path of "common sense". That might sound like a good thing, but excellence is not common, and uncommon ends are often not achieved via common means.

Through the various discusses we have on this website, most folks seem to acknowledge how value contracts are valuable assets. In that vein, I submit the Spurs conservative approach is depleting one of the most valuable assets the team has: Victor Wembanama's rookie contract. I strongly believe Wemby will be a Top-10 player this year, probably a Top-5 player next year, and perhaps the hands down best player in the league by Year 4. For 3 more seasons, we'll have this player on the equivalent of an MLE deal before he justifiably costs a Rookie Supermax. To not take advantage of this, in my mind, is a wasted opportunity. Yes, Year 2 Wemby will only be a fraction of his ultimate form, but that is irrelevant. He's that good now, the fact that he'll be even better down the road shouldn't stop us from taking advantage of his greatness today. This doesn't mean "go all in", but it should mean doing more than treating him like you would any other rookie with a slow, developmental approach.

Alas, the slow, development approach is the one we are taking. The team wants to slowly add the pieces around Wemby. Like I said, this is the approach most teams would take - the "common sense" approach. To me, it borders right on the line between conservatism and cowardice. Our FO enjoys an unprecedented level of job security, but they do not leverage that security to empower bold moves. Perhaps this is how one achieves said level of job security, and there is an argument to be made about that. With that said I believe we are one of the leauge's 3 Great Franchises. The Spurs, Celtics and Lakers. Those are the Royal Houses of the NBA - the franchises with the highest all-time winning records and with a bevy of titles (and, most importantly, modern era titles) to go with it. These are franchises that should not tolerate long-term stretches of losing (though the Celtics and Lakers each have in their history a single 6-year stretch of missing the playoffs, which looks like we're on track to match this upcoming season), but the Spurs currently seem quite contented with it.

The Spurs have long-enjoyed a record that should be the source of much pride: the highest winning percentage of all time in ANY of the 3 major American Sporting leagues (NBA, MLB, NFL). However, this is a record we have enjoyed since the 1990s, will likely be relinquished this upcoming season to the Celtics. If Boston wins 55 games this year, we will have to win 47 to maintain that record (spoiler alert, probably not going to happen).

I'd like to see our team act like one of the Great Royal Franchises that it is. Yes, we are a small market team, but so are the Green Bay Packers, one of the NFL's Royal Franchises. Being Small Market doesn't mean we need to operate on the borderline between conservatism and cowardice. Our team should hold itself to the high standard it has set throughout its history.

Execution Grade: B+

With the slow, conservative approach as the Direction, the Spurs are doing an above average, almost excellent job. They are adding high quality long-term pieces (Castle) while taking advantage of their position as a team not really looking to contend to accumulate valuable long-term assets (like getting that 20131 SAC swap for nothing). They're adding relatively low-cost (both in terms of actual dollars and opportunity cost) veterans to help with the continued development of our youth (CP3, Barnes).

What holds this back from being an A is the the decision to punt on pick #8 (and to a lesser extent, #35), and I don't think it can be called anything other than a punt. The notion that we got some amazing return for that pick is pure and uncut copium in its most unadulterated form. Turning the #8 pick into a 6-year out swap and a 7-year out unprotected FRP is an objectively poor return on value. You may want to convince yourself that this is some master stroke and those picks may turn out better, and they may, but if you quantitatively value these picks in an objective manner, you'll quickly see the Spurs got a dimes-on-the-dollar return. The concept of not taking another prospect at #8 is fine (though debatable), but the return is objectively bad and the FO deserves criticism for that.

I won't go into the team's handling of SRPs in recent years, because it's been addressed and discussed ad nauseum, but I'll just echo that it is questionable at best.

Aside from the draft, I can't criticize the FO's execution within the context of their Direction very much. It solidly achieves the direction they are taking.

Overall Grade: C

An excellent execution of a middling plan is still a middling result, and that's what I think we have here. To me, the best short summation of what the Spurs are doing is: it's fine. I don't think it's a D or an F, it's a firm C... a textbook encapsulation of average. No "costly mistakes" were made, because the Spurs don't take the risks that could lead to those costly mistakes. But without risks, the rewards are muted.

[TD 21]

Not convinced that a team with prime Anthony Edwards is gonna be that bad to make those 2030/2031 assets that appealing.

That's an eternity in the NBA. Whose to say Edwards won't suffer a career altering injury? Or won't have forced his way out by then? Or that the Spurs won't re-route those assets before then?

[spurraider21]

and you can make a case for why the wolves wont be good. but lets grant that prime edwards is there.

they wont be able to add much talent in the draft. they outright owe their 2025, 2027, 2029 picks, and their 2026 pick may be swapped.

they also are going to be in a rough spot cap wise. they're already a second apron team now, and they'll have to make adjustments to get out of that next year. its possible if gobert declines his player option and agrees to a longer term deal on a lower APY. but then you are committing to a mutliyear deal with a 33yo gobert, who will be 38 in 2030 when they start owing us picks.

they may end up being forced to part with KAT. and minnesota doesnt have any FA allure.

a team strapped for picks, a poor cap situation, and not a desirable FA destination isn't likely to give edwards great infrastructure to work with

so by the time 2030 rolls around, they may end up giving us a good pick and hopefully get swapped near the end of the first round. that also prevents them from improving before handing over the 2031 pick

[Seventyniner]

and you can make a case for why the wolves wont be good. but lets grant that prime edwards is there.

they wont be able to add much talent in the draft. they outright owe their 2025, 2027, 2029 picks, and their 2026 pick may be swapped.

they also are going to be in a rough spot cap wise. they're already a second apron team now, and they'll have to make adjustments to get out of that next year. its possible if gobert declines his player option and agrees to a longer term deal on a lower APY. but then you are committing to a mutliyear deal with a 33yo gobert, who will be 38 in 2030 when they start owing us picks.

they may end up being forced to part with KAT. and minnesota doesnt have any FA allure.

a team strapped for picks, a poor cap situation, and not a desirable FA destination isn't likely to give edwards great infrastructure to work with

so by the time 2030 rolls around, they may end up giving us a good pick and hopefully get swapped near the end of the first round. that also prevents them from improving before handing over the 2031 pick

If I could get an almost unprotected 2030 swap and a totally unprotected 20131 pick from any team in the league, not many teams would rank clearly above Minnesota.

Maybe chronically bad teams like the DET/CHA/WAS, but even they can improve. None of them are anywhere near the second apron, and a team records from one season to five seasons later have almost no correlation. The Wolves, on the other hand, have a clear path to bottoming out since so many of their future draft picks are already owed and they are in second apron hell already.

How about the Kings? Oh wait...

[offset formation]

I graded them a C