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Context matters, and here the Spurs have decided that next year is another building one. Smart.
In my view then, it’s a clear A
Barring any trades, looks like our offseason is done. Here's a recap of what we did and our presumptive opening camp roster. Ignoring the two-way guys we lost like Duke and Gray.
OUT:
Dom Barlow
Devonte' Graham
Cedi Osman
2024 FRP (#8 overall)
2024 SRP (#35 overall)
2025 SRP (Originally belonging to NOP)
IN:
Chris Paul (FA)
Harrison Barnes (Trade)
2031 Unprotected FRP Swap from SAC (part of Barnes trade)
Stephon Castle (#4 Pick)
2030 Top-1 Protected Pick Swap from MIN
2031 Unprotected FRP from MIN
Juan Nunez (#36 overall pick, acquired from #35)
Cash
Harrison Ingram (#48 overall, 2-way contract)
Presumptive Training Camp Depth Chart (who is starting/positions not all that important for this purpose):
Paul/Jones/Wesley
Vassell/Castle/Branham
Barnes/Johnson/Champagnie/Cissoko
Sochan/Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama/Collins/Bassey
Last edited by scott; 07-17-2024 at 05:58 PM.
Context matters, and here the Spurs have decided that next year is another building one. Smart.
In my view then, it’s a clear A
Getting Castle is not bad but I would have preferrred if they had moved up somehow and gotten Sheppard. I grade Sheppard just a little bit higher just cause of the gravity of his potential curryesque shooting.
i would have much preferred if they drafted Matas at #8. I think he’s gonna be a star.
Wemby, Sheppard and Matas would have been a top three that maybe could have got them a championship eventually without needing to add a costly player like Lauri. I think Wemby, Castle and Matas might too and that was within their grasp.
I would have preferred if they didn’t pre trade their first second rounder and then they would have been able to draft Furphy.
Drafting Ingram with their last pick was fine.
So ideally I would have liked them to come out with Sheppard/Castle, Buzelas, Furphy and Ingram.
Then I would have liked them to trade Tre or Collins all or partially into a teams caps space to make up for the six million they gained from keeping #8. If it cost three or four seconds that would be fine.
Then still continue with the rest of their offseason, signing CP3 and trading for Barnes.
I would rank that an A offseason. This offseason was okay. I give it a B or B- assuming it’s completed. It could still go up to an A tho.
Last edited by sfernald; 07-17-2024 at 07:04 PM.
C
I can understand not wanting to pick at #8, but not taking a swing wth #35 is just unexplainable.
Could've moved Wesley to the Bulls if cap space was the issue. Nunez pick lowers the grade.
On the other hand, I love Barnes pickup and getting another unprotected FRP swap in the process is great.
I don't expect much else to happen, but I want Markkanen.
If he goes somewhere else in a reasonable trade, grade will go lower.
i'll give it a C. its a passing grade.
i think taking Castle at 4 was fair. to me, there was a tier drop between Sheppard and Castle, so it was frustrating the way the draft went, but the Castle pick is fine. i just really thought it made sense to make use of the #8 pick, even if they never wanted Dillingham who would have been my top choice there. i dont think our current pipeline of players is particularly great. getting an extra swing now vs 2031 would have been nice. i think that was a blunder. and then their handling of the 2nd round picks has been just really awful for the 2nd straight year.
i really like the addition of Paul. heck i wanted to trade for him last year at that bloated salary. i thought this year was probably a year too late for him, but getting him at 11mil instead of 30 makes up for that quite a bit.
it seems the harrison barnes trade was a fallback plan after some other stuff failed, like the alleged attempt to go after Paul George (something i am also a big fan of). as its been said by others, i think the Barnes trade was a very good salvage job as after plan A failed. seriously. go to the Sacto Kings subreddit, search for any post relating to harrison barnes or even the derozan trade, and just read how unanimously and effusively beloved Barnes is there. thats not by accident. i would have taken him for free. throw in a future unprotected swap and its just brilliant
and then i would have liked just a little more ambition at the bottom of the roster. i actually like bassey over barlow on the court, but that knee...
will be nice to see how the two way spots unfold. Ingram almost certainly will be one. would very much like to see Minix get a spot. and while they currently have Bouyea there and he has looked solid in summer league, tbh id like to get somebody like Duke there instead
Between a B and a C (call it a B- or C+). It was about what I expected in terms of tenor and it has a better chance than not of being a passable bridge to next off season . . . but a similar showing at that point won't cut it.
This is spot on. The only thing I would add that might move this to a C/C- is not taking Furphy at 35. The team badly needs shooting, he's having a good summer league, and would have, at the very least, provided some more compe ion for assholes like Branham who seem to have a roster spot by birthright rather than merit.
A solid B (although I am a Spurs homer).
They addressed the roster without creating any potential conflict, any trauma, by freaking out the young guys by bringing in other (but more established) young guys.
They brought in old guys who could not be seen as any long-term threats.
They hit the Spursy very conservative sweet spot.
They successfully focussed on long-term development.
I forgot about that swap from SAC! Added into the original post.
I pretty much agree with all of this. I'll add that I think of Castle as BPA at 4, and that I'd consider trading #8 as an "incomplete" until we see what they do with the return.
It's too early to grade. Keldon and Collins will be traded. Spurs wants to compete this season. There is no way they keep these two guys.
Realistically and ideally, they will be traded for Lauri. If this happens, I will give a A+ grade.
But in case this falls through, I believe Spurs already had plan B. Trade Keldon + 2 FRPS for Cam Johnson; Trade Collins + Cash + 1 FRP for Bucks's Lopez. This will still be a solid A.
I think there's two prongs to evaluating the offseason. Direction, and execution.
Direction:
Probably roughly 3 paths - what we did, mid point (take 2 picks in R1, take guys who'll play this year in round 2, one big FA swing), trade lots of assets for a guy (Seemingly, 4 picks + for Lauri).
Chose to essentially focus on another rebuilding season, with adding future draft capital, one top level rookie (rather than two) and competent vets. Likely to be a fringe playing team, depending largely on internal growth, ensuring that there's 48 minutes of competent PG play, didn't churn through the roster.
I think the direction is fine. I think the mid point of using both picks (or, in general a bit more of a refresh of deep bench) would've been a bit better, but I think the end of patience is better than being all in. Wemby had incredible moments last year, but he's approaching top 10 player, rather than top 1, and we didn't have a reasonable path to a roster around him that would compete.
Execution: Got competent vets who fit the leadership role very well (Don't think you could do much better than CP3). Extra assets are pretty good (complicated by already having the Dallas swap), clearly a focus on ensuring a pipeline for Victors prime. Moved into having competent NBA play for most minutes (though, unlikely to be above average at most positions).
Overall: B.
Clear understanding of where they are, a focus on the long term, and acknowledging that they needed more structure and player leadership. Decent asset play for upside, though Minnesota is unlikely to be worse than #8 in 2031 (are there 32 teams by then? Will an Ant led team in his prime be a bottom quarter team? Secondary swap option with Dallas already there is complicated). Banking on Sacramento being bad in 2031 is sensible (historically poorly run, not a clear A1 star or path to excellence).
Questions on direction (several years building to this): What is the point of all the second round picks if you're going to not use good ones (33 last year, 35 this year) on prospects? Both Leonard Miller and Furphy are good propsects who would have added to end of bench depth. If you can use them to dump future salary / as trade lubricant that's fine, but just adding a bunch to never use them is silly.
How is shooting valued: We seem to be getting to the early 2010s Thunder model of valuing long dribble pass defend players. Shooting is needed at some point.
2025 Offseason set up: We'll likely have limited cap space, few roster spots (2 picks in, Blake / etc out). Do we seek to move Collins / someone else at the deadline for an expiring (e.g, Collins and 2 seconds for Brook Lopez if Doc still doesn't play Brook) to boost up cap space?
I like Cam Johnson and think he's a good fit, but that's a wild overpay, especially since Barnes provides some of what would be expected of Cam (spacing, iq... defense, not so much).
if they took Furph there and came away from the draft with a viable 3&D wing prospect i would have probably gone up to a C+ or B- or somethin. Klintman would have been another good swing there instead of Nunez.
the 4 picks before we took Nunez were Filipowski, Tyler Smith, Kolek, and Furphy. all guys who were regularly mocked to go in the 20s
It's a B in my eyes. They added some good veterans that have a minimal impact on cap space next offseason and beyond. They even got a potentially good swap for it too. The Castle pick was good but simply a case of taking the obvious choice of the players who were left. History will judge trading the 8th pick. Also, this team still has too many younger players who might not see the floor in order to develop. If they consolidate the younger players at the deadline and/or the swap works out, it could be an A+ but too early to tell.
A.
Great stuff:
Veteran leadership. I'd side-eyed CP3, but never thought he'd sign with us. His addition with Harrison Barnes is going to really bend the learning curve for the whole squad.
Cap flexibility (now). However they came to the cap space, how they used it to scoot DeRozan over to the Kings, pulling a great vet and a future asset is exceptional. The FO continues to do magic tricks with cap space.
Cap flexibility (near term). At some point, I realized, or felt, the team didn't want any new salary beyond this coming year, with Barnes as an exception. Teams are still running from the exploding volcano of the new CBA and they have even more room to stock the cabinets next year.
The Draft. Stephon Castle is easily the right choice for the Spurs and one of the top players in this draft. He's going to fit tremendously for years to come.
Gimme them assets. We should remember how our championship runs were all but over before rabbits came out of the hat and revived things with George Hill, Gary Neal, Danny Green, etc. Those MN and SAC swaps and the MN pick are going to come at exactly the right time.
Uncertain stuff:
The Draft (#8 pick). I fully expected two high rookies to be on the squad this year, but as the draft approached the possibility of truly trading out appeared. I don't think there's been enough press on how truly unusual this was, but I think it was smart. Ditching the cap hold allowed the later move, and I really don't think we're going to miss Cody Williams, Buzelis, Knecht or Dillingham. Wemby will just be touching his prime when we'll get the swap and outright first.
The Draft (#35 pick). I think it would have taken another second round pick to dump Wesley or enough to take a real player at this pick. Ultimately, it worked out when we got Barnes. I'm a fan of Furphy, and I don't like punting on a good prospect, but I just don't think the team wanted any extra salary years this summer.
Verdict:
For an off-season where I was afraid they'd go for Trae Young to one where they picked up Paul and Barnes to provide on-court stability and training, picked one of the best players in the draft, and maintained tons of flexibility. Last year they said they weren't prepping for the next year or two, they were prepping for the next decade, and you see it.
OUT:
2024 FRP (#8 overall) F. Pathetic. Should have taken a flyer on Edey or another baller.
IN:
Head Coach Pop staying. F. Unless there is some hidden Wemby 2.0 in the 2025 draft.
Chris Paul (FA) Whatever. Highly overated whiner and cheapshot. But the PG postion could only be improved, so I'll take it. 1 year contract good.
Harrison Barnes (Trade) Meh above average.
2031 Unprotected FRP Swap from SAC (part of Barnes trade) WGAF
Stephon Castle (#4 Pick) B+ nice
2030 Top-1 Protected Pick Swap from MIN F. Stupid
2031 Unprotected FRP from MIN C ask us in 7 years. Ya I'm sure some potnetial trading team give a phuck now.
Juan Nunez (#36 overall pick, acquired from #35) Stupid.
Cash
Harrison Ingram (#48 overall, 2-way contract) Inc.
Presumptive Training Camp Depth Chart (who is starting/positions not all that important for this purpose):
Paul/Jones/Wesley Average at best.
Vassell/Castle/Branham Ok, potential, suckass
Barnes/Johnson/Champagnie/Cissoko Ok, trade bait, keep working hard, keep improving.
Sochan/Mamukelashvili Too much marijuana and fruitcake activities / good signing.
Wembanyama/Collins/Bassey A+++ / get off his ass he didn't choose this / whatever hope he gets back to at least 90%.
Unless they add Markkanen, this offseason has been an absolute F for me. From trading away the picks (imagine if we had Buzelis right now), to adding the type of players I thought were the absolute worse type of addition. So far they have made moves to win around 35 games, not good enough to compete, and not bad enough to get a high pick.
we are set guys, we have a great offseason
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Totally agree
Solid B
If we have offseasons like this every year, then we are going to be golden with cheat code wemby
I'd give it a B- at this point. A territory would be a Lauri or B. Ingram acquisition. The fallback is keeping most of the powder dry and getting a couple of vets to teach the young'ns short term. Fine for now
Building on what? Wesley, Branham, Sochan, Tre, Keldon, Collins...? Or Mamu, Bassey and Sidy? Or the corpses of Paul and Barnes?
It's impossible to grade them because it almost entirely depends on what happens in the future. thats what they build on, future and luck (like when they got Wemby) Do they grab a future star in next year's draft? what if not? Can they trade for one? What if not?
If yes, cool. If not, It's a mess.
Last edited by JPB; 07-18-2024 at 04:29 AM.
They’ve clearly decided they want to prioritize the 25 draft. Once they chosen that direction, all the other moves made a lot of sense.
Also, Wemby, as good as he is, is not a finished product by any means. Folks here already assume he’s a sure fire MVP next year, but he’s not. Just watch him in the post— still has a ways to go.
And last, yes, this is the year they make decisions on a lot of the guys you mention. I think Keldon and Tre are moved this year, and it’s or get off the pot with many of the others. Paul and Barnes are good value at the deadline too.
Pretty much echoing a lot of the sentiments already laid out but a B sounds about right.
Pros: Castle at 4, CP3 on a very reasonable 1-year deal, landing Barnes and a Kings FRP swap for helping facilitate the DDR trade. Ultimately maintained a lot of flexibility going forward into what projects to be a huge 2025 offseason (I know Barnes’s deal is 2 years but it would be very easy to flip if needed IMO).
Neutral: trading away #8…I get the logic, and yes, there’s absolutely a chance this ends up being a home run down the road. Just cant help but feel like there were at least 2-3 guys here that potentially would be a major upgrade over our current end of bench rotation. I know the salary aspect likely played into it.
Cons: Circling back to the point above - I just think we brought back too many deep bench guys and would’ve preferred to see some more turnover. Bringing back every one of Branham/Wesley/Champagnie/Bassey/Mamu is just meh to me. In a vacuum I can defend bringing back any single one of those guys, but bringing ALL of them back was just a little disappointing. It has been mentioned but at pick 35 there were several guys available that were projected FRPs…instead we added a guy who probably never sees an NBA court.
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