Dean on OAI: "Idea We're Going To Win 'Iraq' War...Just Plain Wrong"

[Nbadan]

Dean: US Won't Win in Iraq
LAST UPDATE: 12/6/2005 9:54:29 PM
Posted By: Jim Forsyth


(SAN ANTONIO) -- Saying the "idea that we're going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong," Democratic National Chairman Howard Dean predicted today that the Democratic Party will come together on a proposal to withdraw National Guard and Reserve troops immediately, and all US forces within two years.

Dean made his comments in an interview on WOAI Radio in San Antonio.

"I've seen this before in my life. This is the same situation we had in Vietnam. Everybody then kept saying, 'just another year, just stay the course, we'll have a victory.' Well, we didn't have a victory, and this policy cost the lives of an additional 25,000 troops because we were too stubborn to recognize what was happening."

Dean says the Democrat position on the war is 'coalescing,' and is likely to include several proposals.

"I think we need a strategic redeployment over a period of two years," Dean said. "Bring the 80,000 National Guard and Reserve troops home immediately. They don't belong in a conflict like this anyway. We ought to have a redeployment to Afghanistan of 20,000 troops, we don't have enough troops to do the job there and its a place where we are welcome. And we need a force in the Middle East, not in Iraq but in a friendly neighboring country to fight (terrorist leader Musab) Zarqawi, who came to Iraq after this invasion. We've got to get the target off the backs of American troops.

Dean didn't specify which country the US forces would deploy to, but he said he would like to see the entire process completed within two years. He said the Democrat proposal is not a 'withdrawal,' but rather a 'strategic redeployment' of U.S. forces.

"The White House wants us to have a permanent commitment to Iraq. This is an Iraqi problem. President Bush got rid of Saddam Hussein and that was a great thing, but that could have been done in a very different way. But now that we're there we need to figure out how to leave. 80% of Iraqis want us to leave, and it's their country."

Dean also compared the controversy over pre-war intelligence to the Watergate scandal which brought down Richard Nixon's presidency in 1974.

"What we see today is very much like what was going in Watergate," Dean said. "It turns out there is a lot of good evidence that President Bush did not tell the truth when he was asking Congress for the power to go to war. The President said last week that Congress saw the same intelligence that he did in making the decision to go to war, and that is flat out wrong. The President withheld some intelligence from the Senate Intelligence Committee. He withheld the report from the CIA that in fact there was no evidence of weapons of mass destruction (in Iraq), that they did not have a nuclear program. They (the White House) selectively gave intelligence to the United States Senate and the United States Congress and got them to give the go ahead to attack these people."

WOAI (http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=C36A87B9-63A0-4CDE-AA91-B41571AFD3AF)

According to some polls, most San Antonioians still disagreed with Dean:


PAGS POLL: Howard Dean claims we can't win the war in Iraq. What do you think?
He's right...42.9%
He's wrong...52.1%
I don't know...5.0%

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It actually all depends on what winning is for the American people. Personally, I don't think there is any scenario with good outcomes, for either side, American or Iraqui. Right now, "winning" (for America) would be to cut your loses and withdraw, which is, needless to say, not fair for the Iraqui people, who are stuck with the mess.

The ideal thing would be for the US to rebuild Iraq, and that a democracy be established, but I think its safe to say that scenario is out of the question, no matter how many people have deluded themselves into thinking it can be done.

As it stands right now, Iraq will probably end up being more of a terrorist hotbed than it has ever been. Then again, I don't suppose this is news to anyone.

[JoeChalupa]

We can and must win this war.

[xrayzebra]

According to his own party he is wrong. See story in this mornings E-N. Those running for office in the dimm-0-craptic party are not too happy with him or
Pelosi. Seems as tho they may have a little problem in their own party.

[boutons]

I think the war won't be won or lost in any clear-cut, definitive manner, neither sooner nor later. That's why dubya speaks in sloganistic nebulosities like "stay the course" without defining exactly what the "course" is.

There's no game clock and final score that will say GAMEOVER, when the US occupiers can get up and go home. There won't be any "VI day", Victory Iraq, when the insurgents formally sign an armistice and hand over their weapons.

With the parliamentary elections next week, the horizon will be empty of definitve road signs that mark progress. The Iraqis will have a constitution and representative parliament, but also festering insurgency stretching to the horizon that will pre-occupy Iraqis daily much more than the niceties of "democracy and freedom".

So, you right-wing idealogues who think "my country, right or wrong", WTF do you think a W in Iraq will look like?

The ONLY positive view for the Repubs is that it looks like the Dems aren't capable of really exploiting electrorally the horrendous and growing anti-Repub sentiment. However, the US voters may just decide, after seeing the Repubs fuck up the US fiscal position, fix or improve absolutely nothing in 5+ years, start a bogus war they can't finish, build/re-organize DHS/FEMA that can't manage emergencies, etc, etc to vote anti-Repub (rather than pro-Dem) on the hope that the Dems might make some progress in the incredible messes the Repubs have created. The Repubs obviously don't give a shit about anything but cutting taxes for the rich+corps.

[xrayzebra]

I think the war won't be won or lost in any clear-cut, definitive manner, neither sooner nor later. That's why dubya speaks in sloganistic nebulosities like "stay the course" without defining exactly what the "course" is.

There's no game clock and final score that will say GAMEOVER, when the US occupiers can get up and go home. There won't be any "VI day", Victory Iraq, when the insurgents formally sign an armistice and hand over their weapons.

With the parliamentary elections next week, the horizon will be empty of definitve road signs that mark progress. The Iraqis will have a constitution and representative parliament, but also festering insurgency stretching to the horizon that will pre-occupy Iraqis daily much more than the niceties of "democracy and freedom".

So, you right-wing idealogues who think "my country, right or wrong", WTF do you think a W in Iraq will look like?

The ONLY positive view for the Repubs is that it looks like the Dems aren't capable of really exploiting electrorally the horrendous and growing anti-Repub sentiment. However, the US voters may just decide, after seeing the Repubs fuck up the US fiscal position, fix or improve absolutely nothing in 5+ years, start a bogus war they can't finish, build/re-organize DHS/FEMA that can't manage emergencies, etc, etc to vote anti-Repub (rather than pro-Dem) on the hope that the Dems might make some progress in the incredible messes the Repubs have created. The Repubs obviously don't give a shit about anything but cutting taxes for the rich+corps.

Well boutons for once you are right. There wont be a big victory parade
when we win in Iraq. Iraq is only one phase of this war. Whether people
like it or not we are in a world wide war. Fighting is going on in many
countries that are not visible to the people. We are fighting on many
fronts and in many ways and will be for many, I repeat, many years to come.
Bush warned all of America of this in the beginning, but since many of
you seemed to have no memory of what transpired in the recent past you
keep repeating your hate filled words. You really are a bunch of losers.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Well boutons for once you are right. There wont be a big victory parade
when we win in Iraq. Iraq is only one phase of this war. Whether people
like it or not we are in a world wide war. Fighting is going on in many
countries that are not visible to the people. We are fighting on many
fronts and in many ways and will be for many, I repeat, many years to come.
Bush warned all of America of this in the beginning, but since many of
you seemed to have no memory of what transpired in the recent past you
keep repeating your hate filled words. You really are a bunch of losers.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif You actually still believe that Bush is a bright man, that is just laughable

[Hook Dem]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif You actually still believe that Bush is a bright man, that is just laughable
That is funny coming from you!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

That is funny coming from you!
why is that? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif

[Hook Dem]

why is that? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif
It's not like you're an expert on American affairs!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It's not like you're an expert on American affairs!
you think I have to be en expert on American affairs to tell that Bush is not very bright? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[boutons]

Saddam/Iraq were not involved in jihad against the USA/Western culture, nor in 9/11.
That was, and has proven to be, just one of dickhead's numerous lies.

Iraq was falsely made into a battleground only because dubya/dickhead wanted it to be for still mysterious reaasons, not because the jihadis were there.

Iraq has been/will be a huge, wasteful, counter-productive distraction from the real war on the real terrorists.

"Fighting is going on in many countries that are not visible to the people"

bullshit, until we hear it from somebody else.

[Oh, Gee!!]

We've already won, I thought. Remember the Mission Accomplished sign and Dubya in a flight suit?

[xrayzebra]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif You actually still believe that Bush is a bright man, that is just laughable

He's bright enough to have whuped your ass twice. And continues to do so
day in and day out. :lol

[SA210]

We've already won, I thought. Remember the Mission Accomplished sign and Dubya in a flight suit?
This admistration sure is good with pictures aren't they?

[JoeChalupa]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

He's bright enough to have whuped your ass twice. And continues to do so
day in and day out. :lol I think Bush's victory has more to do with the gulibility of the American people, rather than Bush's brightness. However, at this point, and with all the evidence against Bush's government, its getting to the point where its no longer gulibility, and rather more like stupidity. Either way, give it time http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[xrayzebra]

I think Bush's victory has more to do with the gulibility of the American people, rather than Bush's brightness. However, at this point, and with all the evidence against Bush's government, its getting to the point where its no longer gulibility, and rather more like stupidity. Either way, give it time http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

Just goes to show you. You think most Americans are stupid and you are the bright one. Goes to show you what a "superior" attitude you libs have
of yourself. Bye the way "smart one" Gullibility is spelled with two "l's" not
one. sheesh.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Bye the way "smart one" Gullibility is spelled with two "l's" not
one. sheesh.

Bye the way? Are you going somewhere?

[xrayzebra]

Bye the way? Are you going somewhere?


No where soon. Just want to stay around to "make you angry". Someone
has to remind you of how wrong you are. :lol

[Oh, Gee!!]

No where soon. Just want to stay around to "make you angry". Someone has to remind you of how wrong you are. :lol

someone didn't get the joke.

[Vashner]

Howard Dean is the best thing the Democrats could of ever done in there history. They are gonna pay BIG TIME in 08 for putting in a "I hate everything Republicans stand for"...

Can't win back the seat without swing vote.. no one wants a dick fuck like Dean telling them stupid fucking shit like this. We will win this fucking war.. Despite ass fucks like NBADan and howard dean trying to bring down our military's accomplishments.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Just goes to show you. You think most Americans are stupid and you are the bright one. Goes to show you what a "superior" attitude you libs have
of yourself. Bye the way "smart one" Gullibility is spelled with two "l's" not
one. sheesh. First of all, I didn't say most Americans, I think it is clear that I was talking about people who still believe what Bush says despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

oh and "bye" the way http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif, English is my second language Einstein, what is your excuse?

[xrayzebra]

First of all, I didn't say most Americans, I think it is clear that I was talking about people who still believe what Bush says despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

oh and "bye" the way http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif, English is my second language Einstein, what is your excuse?

Then use a spell check if you are going to make comments about
people who support their President and Country and tell them how
dumb they are for showing such support.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Then use a spell check if you are going to make comments about
people who support their President and Country and tell them how
dumb they are for showing such support.
dude, you just used "bye" on your past post when you should have used "by", what the hell are you complaining about? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

Fine, I'll tell you what. I take what I said back. I don't think Bush's supporters are stupid. I think people who follow a leader blindly without question despite all the evidence of his deceit are mentally deficient. Ofcourse this applies to everyone, including us Argentinians, happy?

[gtownspur]

dude, you just used "bye" on your past post when you should have used "by", what the hell are you complaining about? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

Fine, I'll tell you what. I take what I said back. I don't think Bush's supporters are stupid. I think people who follow a leader blindly without question despite all the evidence of his deceit are mentally deficient. Ofcourse this applies to everyone, including us Argentinians, happy?


I'm sorry, but you'd wish you'd have deficient minded americans in argentina, maybe you'd accomplish something.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm sorry, but you'd wish you'd have deficient minded americans in argentina, maybe you'd accomplish something. no no, I would love to have forward thinking Americans in Argentina, because they are the ones that accomplish things. In fact, we've had incompetent administrations over here aswell, you don't have a monopoly on that. Anyway, lets drop the subject, because I can see where this is going. I guess time will show Bush for what he really is, and then perhaps you'll admit then.

P.S. I sure as hell wouldn't want your gullible ass over here running things

[xrayzebra]

dude, you just used "bye" on your past post when you should have used "by", what the hell are you complaining about? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

Fine, I'll tell you what. I take what I said back. I don't think Bush's supporters are stupid. I think people who follow a leader blindly without question despite all the evidence of his deceit are mentally deficient. Ofcourse this applies to everyone, including us Argentinians, happy?

Well dude, let me explain something to you. I and most Americans do not
follow their "leaders" blindly. Most Americans have and will support their
President during wartime. That is just plain good common sense. What you
folks in Argentina do is your business. We do, as you do I'm sure, have a
free press and freedom to express ourselves, as witnessed here on this
forum. Why we don't even exclude people for other lands from commenting
on our President or government. Like you. I may not agree with our
President, or Congress for that matter, on all their decisions. When I don't
I contact them through the mail or email. Believe it or not, but I do
receive replies to these comments, even from the White House. Supporting
our President for protecting this country is not stupid. It may be in
Argentina, I don't know. You would be more qualified to answer that question
than I would. Supporting a President for having oral sex with a young
female employee is stupid, but you will find those who did here on this
forum. Maybe those are the ones you are talking about.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I think XrayZebra is gtown's long, lost father

[xrayzebra]

I think XrayZebra is gtown's long, last father

Heck I may even be yours. Now there is a thought :lol

[Oh, Gee!!]

Heck I may even be yours. Now there is a thought :lol

Where's my child support?

[SA210]

ManuMania, you'll also find ppl in this forum that actually support a President who lies, which led to thousands of deaths and many more on the way.

[Mr. Peabody]

Supporting a President for having oral sex with a young
female employee is stupid, but you will find those who did here on this
forum.

I am sure there were many who supported Clinton solely because he had sex with an intern. :rolleyes

[SA210]

the oral sex thing really gets them doesn't it?

[xrayzebra]

the oral sex thing really gets them doesn't it?

Not so much that it occurred. It is the fact he lied to the American people:
"i did not have sex with that woman". He also lied to a grand jury. It also
showed his true character. As for killing people. He caused many deaths
through his inaction as President and his stupid decision in Somalia. The
first WTC happened on his watch. Embassies were bomb during his watch
and the Cole happened on his watch. He lied to the American people about
all those incidents. He did nothing to stop OBL and his crew. He was offered his head on platter and he refused. Yeah, his oral sex really gets to
us "people".

[Oh, Gee!!]

The first WTC happened on his watch. Embassies were bomb during his watch and the Cole happened on his watch.

Must be some watch. What brand?


"people".

are you implying that repugs aren't actually people?

[SA210]

Nah, admit it, he was naughty in the oval office and it gets to you. Maybe Dumbya ought to try it.

Says what about Clintons true character? oh yea, cuz he lied about the oral sex. right?
W wouldn't lie about sex.
Bush has true character. Besides , he's got other lies to worry about, like getting us into war. :rolleyes

Clintons character > Gov. Bush

[Mr. Peabody]

Must be some watch. What brand?



Damn. All my watch does is play "It's a Small World"

[xrayzebra]

Nah, admit it, he was naughty in the oval office and it gets to you. Maybe Dumbya ought to try it.

Says what about Clintons true character? oh yea, cuz he lied about the oral sex. right?
W wouldn't lie about sex.
Bush has true character. Besides , he's got other lies to worry about, like getting us into war. :rolleyes

Clintons character > Gov. Bush

You keep calling President Bush a liar: Did all these people lie, before Bush
was in office?


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

my-o-my, what short memories some of you have. Seems the dimm-o-craps
thought he had all these capabilities before Bush was even President.

[SA210]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah

Bush got us in a mess over lies.

[xrayzebra]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah

Bush got us in a mess over lies.


About the response I expected. Keep that old head in the sand of
ignorance.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

About the response I expected. Keep that old head in the sand of
ignorance.

Well, I can see you've got your head planted up the ass of ignorance....Dumbya!!

[SA210]

no, actually, i'm just keeping it real, instead of all these subtopics trying to justify why Bush is ok for lying. That's all. You do understand.

[Mr. Peabody]

Seems the dimm-o-craps
thought he had all these capabilities before Bush was even President.

"Dimm-o-craps" :lol :lol

[xrayzebra]

"Dimm-o-craps" :lol :lol

Yep, that what they be, enjoy! :lol
:elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant