The Spurs are 10-5 without Sochan in the lineup; 8-12 with him playing.

[spursistan]

This is the biggest elephant in the room right now and that's going back to last season, tbh. As much as we harp on Vassell's uneven play, Sochan and his skillset have proved to be more replaceable for this team. The last 24 hours was Exihibit A of how our offense gets clunky with him and how that triggers a cascading effect on an already flawed roster.

Good guy, but I am just not ready to commit big money to him for his coming extension short of a miraculous shooting transformation. Players of his archetype get schemed out of the rotation entirely in the playoffs. Spurs have a really tricky choice..

[KingKev]

He is more likely to get a KJ type deal versus a DV like overpay.

[KobesAchilles]

I told yall Sochan should be off the bench but everyone said I was a hater. The Spurs have the best bench unit in the league. The problem is that we are starting them.

Starters need to be Wemby, Champ, Barnes, Castle, CP3

[rascal]

He is more likely to get a KJ type deal versus a DV like overpay.

Don't count on that.

The spurs hold on to their draft picks and it looks like they have him locked in as the future starting PF and they have been known to over pay to keep players on board.

We would still be told how great Primo is going to be had he not sabotaged his career.

[Jordan Jackson]

Should they pay him? No. Will they pay him? Yes.

Not being able to shoot should be the end of the road for him in this era of basketball. But he is a nice guy. Casual fans love him “green hair”’. He brings vibes/culture of whatever cliche we’re using. At some point you’d hope the talent level on the team gets better to the point he’s not really needed.

[onechance87]

20 million a year or under.Stop giving charity contracts.First keldon then collins,Now vassell.Its gotta stop.
Hes also got worst at shooting,Which is bad news for his growth in the future.

[John B]

I told yall Sochan should be off the bench but everyone said I was a hater. The Spurs have the best bench unit in the league. The problem is that we are starting them.

Starters need to be Wemby, Champ, Barnes, Castle, CP3

Agree. Mitch needs to grow cajones to start Castle and Champ over Devin and Sochan. And maybe play some Mamu too. If they’re going to let Porter score 28, then try to score at the other side. Mamu I’m sure could’ve grabbed the same amount of rebounds plus scoring inside and out instead of Sochan’s 5 pts in 4 field goal attempts.

I’m beginning to think Mitch is a very limited coach and cannot see outside the box.

[SpursBills]

Playing Tre-Vassell-Keldon-Sochan is a reasonable bench lineup. In the thread about net ratings of different lineups, the Tre-Vassell-Keldon-Sochan-Wemby closing lineup last year had one of the highest net ratings in the league last season. Those four have experience playing together, substituting Collins/Bassey for Wemby obviously makes a huge difference but it's still reasonable to play a group that has had historical success together.

[LeBowen]

This is still a flawed roster and noone except Wemby and I guess CP3 should have guaranteed starting spot or heavy minutes.

Nuggets didn't have Gordon and there was absolutely no need for Mitch to start Jeremy. We need Jeremy against big, physical teams. We'll need Jeremy against Bucks and Lakers because everyone else would get killed by Giannis/Lebron. It's not like Jeremy will stop them, but he's got a better chance to slow them down than anyone else.
Against teams with no such wings, we don't need him because he's too much of a negative on offense.

To me it really feels like we have too many useful, but not enough legit players. Mitch doesn't have the authority to make tough decisions and we need some trades to consolidate power.
I understand that Keldon has some strengths, he's a good offensive rebounder and gets to the rim better than anyone else, but him bringing the ball up and initiating offense is just garbage.
We don't need him, despite his strengths.
Much like we don't need this version of Vassell, despite his fancy dunks.

What also gets me is that our non-Wemby lineups are so horrible. Even if Vassell's development was ideal, he should be playing with the bench because noone else can score reliably.
He needs to be out there with them and lead that unit, even if he starts.

[John B]

I don’t how an organization who retired Manu, a Hofer and one of the Big 3, cannot see Devin at 6th man role. Champ was freaking thriving scoring career-highs and a perfect compliment to Wemby with his quick-release, rebounding and much improved defense. Castle likewise can minimize his mistakes playing along CP3, on top of arguably the best POA defender of the team. Dude can disrupt the flow of opponents offense with his on-your-face defense.

CP3, Champ, Castle, Barnes, Wemby
Tre, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, Collins/Bassey.

That’s a very balanced rotation. And a much better 2nd squad. I would even play Wesley and Mamu here and there to give different looks as both are high motor guys. Sadly, Mitch is too much of a green-horn and couldn’t make big-boy decisions

[KingKev]

I don’t how an organization who retired Manu, a Hofer and one of the Big 3, cannot see Devin at 6th man role. Champ was freaking thriving scoring career-highs and a perfect compliment to Wemby with his quick-release, rebounding and much improved defense. Castle likewise can minimize his mistakes playing along CP3, on top of arguably the best POA defender of the team. Dude can disrupt the flow of opponents offense with his on-your-face defense.

CP3, Champ, Castle, Barnes, Wemby
Tre, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, Collins/Bassey.

That’s a very balanced rotation. And a much better 2nd squad. I would even play Wesley and Mamu here and there to give different looks as both are high motor guys. Sadly, Mitch is too much of a green-horn and couldn’t make big-boy decisions

I don’t know where the DV Manu comparison comes from. They have virtually nothing in common. Manu could give you a little bit and sometimes alot of wahtever you needed on any given night. Vassell just can’t. He can't handle the ball, is a poor distributor, terrible defender and needs consistent touches to be an offensive threat. He is anti Manu.

[Pauleta14]

Clearly a taboo topic for a lot of Spurs fans, who automatically counter this by "you're a hater" or "you don't know bb" or "look at his improved stats" ... smh

The poorness of this roster has lead to give roles/PT undeservedly and prevent some players to work on their limitations and have to win their starting spot.

Sochan's issue is far from only his shooting, it's his overall lack of BBIQ, lack of feeling, touch or ability to pass that kills all ambition of "beautiful game" of just fluid as we can see when he's absent.

He manages to have decent stats bc he's spoon-fed with easy buckets most of the time. He can't create a shot by himself or shoot when wide open...

Yesterday again he missed Wemby wide open multiple times and it ended costing the momentum (among other issues of course)

[Tyronn Lue]

Plus he just looks stupid. Couple looking stupid with having a low basketball IQ and that's bad.

[objective]

This is still a flawed roster and noone except Wemby and I guess CP3 should have guaranteed starting spot or heavy minutes.

Nuggets didn't have Gordon and there was absolutely no need for Mitch to start Jeremy. We need Jeremy against big, physical teams. We'll need Jeremy against Bucks and Lakers because everyone else would get killed by Giannis/Lebron. It's not like Jeremy will stop them, but he's got a better chance to slow them down than anyone else.
Against teams with no such wings, we don't need him because he's too much of a negative on offense..

I don't think they need Sochan against big teams because they always have him defending guards. Barnes is better against bigs.

Sochan spends his time guarding Murray, guarding Luka, guarding Brunson, Anthony Edwards etc

Sochan is too small and plays too weak to check real bigs. That's why Castle blends in so smoothly in his place, he guards the same players.

[LeBowen]

I don't think they need Sochan against big teams because they always have him defending guards.

They have him or Castle on opposition's best player, I think Castle should start in games like last night's with no physical wings.


Barnes is better against bigs.

Barnes has no chance to stay in front of downhill wings like Lebron or Giannis.

[RC_Drunkford]

This is the biggest elephant in the room right now and that's going back to last season, tbh. As much as we harp on Vassell's uneven play, Sochan and his skillset have proved to be more replaceable for this team. The last 24 hours was Exihibit A of how our offense gets clunky with him and how that triggers a cascading effect on an already flawed roster.

Good guy, but I am just not ready to commit big money to him for his coming extension short of a miraculous shooting transformation. Players of his archetype get schemed out of the rotation entirely in the playoffs. Spurs have a really tricky choice..

Mike Jimenez is at it again

[baseline bum]

Tough call if I'd rather the Spurs use a Fox trade to clean up the mistake they already made with Vassell or instead pre-emptively clean up the mistake they're going to make with Sochan.

[scott]

Tough call if I'd rather the Spurs use a Fox trade to clean up the mistake they already made with Vassell or instead pre-emptively clean up the mistake they're going to make with Sochan.

https://i.imgflip.com/v6ljk.jpg

Expand the trade. Send them Sochan, they can send us back Murray. Someone go block the internet in Sacramento so their team can't look up how stupid of them it would be for them to do this.

[eric365]

Most of the loss are from the beginning of the season when Wemby was not playing well coming from a busy summer

But yes Sochan’s shooting is hurting the team and I’d rather have Castle starting.

[Uriel]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

[Kevin]

Sochan is a 2&D forward. Dont mind him when he's only getting paid 5-6M but the moment he starting getting 20M he becomes another KJ/Zollins/Dev player.

I'd shop Sochan over the summer and look to draft his replacement and hit the reset button at PF. Jarace Walker/Sochan/Salaun types are in every draft. Heck you could even throw in guys like Alex Sarr, Matas and Cody Williams in this category more broadly.

If Fox never hits the trade market and Zion does I'd love to offer Sochan to the Pels as a part of a Zion package.

[3&D_TBH]

Starting lineup with Castle seems to pass the eye test for me. I know that’s vague tbh lol

[John B]

I don’t know where the DV Manu comparison comes from. They have virtually nothing in common. Manu could give you a little bit and sometimes alot of wahtever you needed on any given night. Vassell just can’t. He can't handle the ball, is a poor distributor, terrible defender and needs consistent touches to be an offensive threat. He is anti Manu.

You missed my point. I wasn’t comparing Manu and Devin per se, but the 6th man role. This coaching staff seems to be in that too common perception that if you’re the highest paid player, you should be starting, or if you’re the 2nd or 3rd option, you should be in the starting line-up. And that’s from the organization that arguably had the best 6th man ever. Grow some cajones and start Champ, because he compliments Wemby’s game better. I shouldn’t be spelling this out for you :toast

[KingKev]

What do ppl see a Sochan extension like when he becomes eligible this summer?

My ceiling for Sochan has always been that of a high energy role player who’s value comes from the defensive end of the floor, rebounding and getting garbage points around the rim. He still isn’t where I hoped he would get to defensively and will always have situational limitations depending on roster construction. I’d start at 3yrs/36mm and would go as high as 4yr/60mm if he really puts it together the second half of the year in a playoff push. I could see the PATFO rewarding him closer to 4yr/80mm however and that worries me.

[100%duncan]

Sochan is obviously part of the future in the FO’s eyes especially with the 3rd year leap he’s having. The problem is the way his minutes are being utilized. I agree with the others here that he and Dev can be very good bench players. Devin can be a 6th man on a contender and Sochan can be a glue-guy defensive specialist.

[KingKev]

You missed my point. I wasn’t comparing Manu and Devin per se, but the 6th man role. This coaching staff seems to be in that too common perception that if you’re the highest paid player, you should be starting, or if you’re the 2nd or 3rd option, you should be in the starting line-up. And that’s from the organization that arguably had the best 6th man ever. Grow some cajones and start Champ, because he compliments Wemby’s game better. I shouldn’t be spelling this out for you :toast

No problem switching Champ and Dev but he still be overpaid even if he found success as the 6th man. Guys like Jordan Clarkson and D-Lo can provide better scoring options off the bench way cheaper.

[The Truth #6]

Devin isn't going anywhere I assume. Hopefully whoever coaches next year can find his proper role. A tangent, but I think if Wemby actually had some go to moves Devin wouldn't be trying to take over like he does.

[Dex]

Devin isn't going anywhere I assume. Hopefully whoever coaches next year can find his proper role. A tangent, but I think if Wemby actually had some go to moves Devin wouldn't be trying to take over like he does.

The whole team still plays undisciplined basketball tbh.

The tanking years were filled with just "run fast, throw the ball around, and hope for easy buckets" which works sometimes but also...well, piles up a lot of losses.

They've gotten better this year, but those habits are hard to break. And we still have a LOT of players on the team from those tanking years. That seems to be where Sochan "thrives" but it's not sustainable.

It definitely shows up in crunch time when you need to play smart basketball. And yes, Wemby is guilty of this too.

[z0sa]

Sochan should definitely come off the bench and Castle should be starting. Lots of us have wanted Castle starting every game since pre-season tbh

[poopbox]

Clearly a taboo topic for a lot of Spurs fans, who automatically counter this by "you're a hater" or "you don't know bb" or "look at his improved stats" ... smh

The poorness of this roster has lead to give roles/PT undeservedly and prevent some players to work on their limitations and have to win their starting spot.

Sochan's issue is far from only his shooting, it's his overall lack of BBIQ, lack of feeling, touch or ability to pass that kills all ambition of "beautiful game" of just fluid as we can see when he's absent.

He manages to have decent stats bc he's spoon-fed with easy buckets most of the time. He can't create a shot by himself or shoot when wide open...

Yesterday again he missed Wemby wide open multiple times and it ended costing the momentum (among other issues of course)

And we played this dude at fucking point guard for a year and a half :lmao

[baseline bum]

Sochan should definitely come off the bench and Castle should be starting. Lots of us have wanted Castle starting every game since pre-season tbh


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwmsSAvkzGE

[rascal]

And we played this dude at fucking point guard for a year and a half :lmao

No, it was only 18 games.

[Pauleta14]

And we played this dude at fucking point guard for a year and a half :lmao

The experiment was over the 3rd of Dec, barely lasted a month and still used as an excuse by the sniffers to his slow development.

[dn0774]

Feel like with Sochan having a prominent role on the team it effectively hard caps our team's potential offense into being avg or even sub par at best. Castle isn't a better shooter right now but teams at least somewhat treat him as if he is (granted that will change as they play more games). The hope is that Castle can develop his shooting because Sochan sure isn't going to.

Having capable to elite shooters at every position is the recipe for a top 5 offense. The hardest piece to find is a legit rim protecting big that can hit 3s and we have that, why do we have to settle for non-shooters at other positions?

[itzsoweezee]

The spurs obviously know Sochan and Castle can’t both start. Sochan is starting now, but I’m sure if castle was not a rookie, the roles would be reversed.

But Sochan is not the reason the spurs lost those 12 games. Playing one-way guys like Keldon, Collins, and Vassell a ton of minutes is the biggest cause of this team’s problems

[dn0774]

The spurs obviously know Sochan and Castle can’t both start. Sochan is starting now, but I’m sure if castle was not a rookie, the roles would be reversed.

But Sochan is not the reason the spurs lost those 12 games. Playing one-way guys like Keldon, Collins, and Vassell a ton of minutes is the biggest cause of this team’s problems

Yea I get Sochan starting. The Spurs are giving Jeremy every opportunity to prove himself/earn the extension he deserves (good or bad). Drastically reducing his role this season after giving him so many minutes his first 2 seasons would seem like a blatant attempt to suppress his value. I just *hope* the front office isn't enamored with his improved counting stats (pts/rebounds) and realizes how difficult building a potential top 5 offense will be if Sochan is a main cog. That being said, after his fast start his stats have been on a downward trajectory right back towards his career averages so perhaps his extension won't be too inflated.

I agree that Keldon and Collins are lost causes and far bigger issues than Sochan when it comes to winning basketball games right now, but the record with and without Sochan is not just a statistical anomaly imo. I would be curious to see offensive ratings compared between the games with and without him. I am still holding out hope that Vassell is trying to find his rhythm and acclimate to Wemby's ascension as well as Chris Paul, but that may be too optimistic. Offensively he is probably better suited to being a 3rd option who can get hot, problem is that role is ideally filled by someone who is stronger defensively/more complete offensively. Maybe 6th man is something he should be open to in the not too distant future.

[rankingtear]

Feel like with Sochan having a prominent role on the team it effectively hard caps our team's potential offense into being avg or even sub par at best. Castle isn't a better shooter right now but teams at least somewhat treat him as if he is (granted that will change as they play more games). The hope is that Castle can develop his shooting because Sochan sure isn't going to.

Having capable to elite shooters at every position is the recipe for a top 5 offense. The hardest piece to find is a legit rim protecting big that can hit 3s and we have that, why do we have to settle for non-shooters at other positions?

They have top 3 defense with him starting non garbage time though. Can they really be a top 5 offense without a top 5 perimeter player. I feel like chasing an offensive juggernaut build for this team is futile.

[rankingtear]

OKC has the best defense in the league but it is more a stream of good to great perimeter defenders. SAS top 2-3 defense is just Wemby-Sochan completely shutting down primary actions.

[RC_Drunkford]

What do ppl see a Sochan extension like when he becomes eligible this summer?

My ceiling for Sochan has always been that of a high energy role player who’s value comes from the defensive end of the floor, rebounding and getting garbage points around the rim. He still isn’t where I hoped he would get to defensively and will always have situational limitations depending on roster construction. I’d start at 3yrs/36mm and would go as high as 4yr/60mm if he really puts it together the second half of the year in a playoff push. I could see the PATFO rewarding him closer to 4yr/80mm however and that worries me.

lol he'll get 120/5

[SouthernFried]

It's really not Sochan or the other players.

It's who put all these players on the same team that's the problem. Wright?

Sochan, KD, Champagnie Collins, etc...we should only have one of these types. Personally, I like KD. Only one of these guys that can actually drive to the bucket. No D, but only Sochan has D. Which is the real problem. But having them all on the same team...wtf are the SPURS thinking? No way you're gonna have a great team with so many below average/mediocre players. This is more reflective of a bad front office.

[LeBowen]

It's really not Sochan or the other players.

It's who put all these players on the same team that's the problem. Wright?

Sochan, KD, Champagnie Collins, etc...we should only have one of these types. Personally, I like KD. Only one of these guys that can actually drive to the bucket. No D, but none of them have D. Which is the real problem. But having them all on the same team...wtf are the SPURS thinking? No way you're gonna have a great team with so many below average/mediocre players. This is more reflective of a bad front office.

Arguably one of the worst posts I've seen on this forum.
Are you trolling? Sochan is a deeply flawed player, but he's most definitely a positive defender.
Champagnie is the only role player we have who's a positive on both ends of the floor. Our only textbook shooter.

Keldon (I assume KD is Keldon) and Collins are garbage, but to say Champagnie is bad means you're not even watching the games.

[SouthernFried]

Hyperbole much? lol

Champagnie is a horrible defender. Maybe the worst on a team of bad defenders. Devon obviously being the worst. But, yeah, not a horrible 3 point shooter. And you're right. Sochan is actually a good defender and I amended my post to say so. But, he's also a serious problem on offense. Worst hands on the team. Running around getting a lotta garbage shots, but getting in everyone else way doing it. Below NBA average players, both of them.

[LeBowen]

Champagnie is a horrible defender.

Lmao.

https://i.imgur.com/mzWlpkQ.png

Obviously point guards have inflated metric in here, but Champagnie has the best net rating out of any SG/SF/PF on our roster.
He's our best and most important role player this season because he's a solid enough defender and most importantly he can shoot.

[Strategic]

What do ppl see a Sochan extension like when he becomes eligible this summer?

My ceiling for Sochan has always been that of a high energy role player whose value comes from the defensive end of the floor, rebounding and getting garbage points around the rim. He still isn’t where I hoped he would get to defensively and will always have situational limitations depending on roster construction. I’d start at 3yrs/36mm and would go as high as 4yr/60mm if he really puts it together the second half of the year in a playoff push. I could see the PATFO rewarding him closer to 4yr/80mm however and that worries me.These are some worrisome figures for sure. I do appreciate his abilities to clean up some of the garbage on the offensive end, but how many of those opportunities come from him being there in the first place. If he’s on the perimeter then his guard is allowed to sag off and double team the ball. This scenario creates garbage shots and difficult passes, and the guy(Jeremy) not getting guarded has the easiest path to clean up the mess. May be why his numbers sometimes look good. No need to go into his being in the way at the end of quarters, which I blame on the coaches having him on the court. That said, I’d be ok with him in a rotation role. Just need a smaller contract.

[Obstructed_View]

Hyperbole much? lol

Champagnie is a horrible defender. Maybe the worst on a team of bad defenders. Devon obviously being the worst. But, yeah, not a horrible 3 point shooter. And you're right. Sochan is actually a good defender and I amended my post to say so. But, he's also a serious problem on offense. Worst hands on the team. Running around getting a lotta garbage shots, but getting in everyone else way doing it. Below NBA average players, both of them.
This post...has so much stupid in it I can hardly believe the poster watches the games.

[Kawhi Duncan]

When I said it, ppl were on my ass... We are better without him... He should be traded while he has value... At the very least he should come off the bench

[TimDunkem]

He's still not very good. I can't believe he hasn't already been benched.

[onechance87]

lol he'll get 120/5

hell nah...Something around what patrick williams got with the bulls this past summer.5 years 90 million.
Hes got worst at shooting and seems to be getting injured more often.And his fit next to wemby is still a big question mark.

[ginobilized]

I fear that Sochan remains on the team when we are in the playoffs. His low-IQ, no-shooting ways could seriously hamper the team's chances.
He's kind of an X-factor type, and he might excel in that position. I wouldn't bet the farm on that, though. I personally don't see a spot for him in the SL of a team with championship aspirations.
He could be a great energy guy, defensive agitator behind a much stronger all-around player.

I could see Castle being a reliable starter on a playoff team in 3 years.

[Raven]

he has a tendency to want to do less and play a role, he needs to be helped to become a true scorer, which he absolutely can be.

[scott]

For all the posts of people concerned we might "blow our load" on a trade that doesn't work out... there should be a similar amount of concern for the loads being blown on these contract extensions for mediocre players.

[Seventyniner]

For all the posts of people concerned we might "blow our load" on a trade that doesn't work out... there should be a similar amount of concern for the loads being blown on these contract extensions for mediocre players.

The new stricter salary floor can catch teams in a loop of mediocrity, where they end up having to overpay players to meet the floor which in turn hampers their flexibility down the road.

[dn0774]

Overpaying Sochan just feels like a forgone conclusion at this point, Collins making $17 and $18 million this and next season is criminal...imagine what the front office is going to throw to Sochan. Hopefully a sane person will be in the room to talk everyone down and remind everyone how crippling it is to overpay guys in the new CBA. Especially a guy who will never be able to shoot and is totally reliant on his teammates to table set any offense for him. I do believe a role exists for Sochan, just not one that dictates starting and/or playing 30 mpg. I cant say the same for Keldon or Collins, they both need to be gone asap.

Sochan seems cool and is probably a fun hang, but this needs to be entirely a business decision from the Spurs perspective. Make an offer in line with a 6th or 7th man role and if he balks you let him hit FA. I doubt any teams are throwing a bag at a guy with his offensive profile just like no teams would've signed Collins for anything close to $17 million a season.

[LeBowen]

Overpaying Sochan just feels like a forgone conclusion at this point, Collins making $17 and $18 million this and next season is criminal...imagine what the front office is going to throw to Sochan. Hopefully a sane person will be in the room to talk everyone down and remind everyone how crippling it is to overpay guys in the new CBA. Especially a guy who will never be able to shoot and is totally reliant on his teammates to table set any offense for him. I do believe a role exists for Sochan, just not one that dictates starting and/or playing 30 mpg. I cant say the same for Keldon or Collins, they both need to be gone asap.

Sochan seems cool and is probably a fun hang, but this needs to be entirely a business decision from the Spurs perspective. Make an offer in line with a 6th or 7th man role and if he balks you let him hit FA. I doubt any teams are throwing a bag at a guy with his offensive profile just like no teams would've signed Collins for anything close to $17 million a season.

Tbh, 15 to 20 million a year would be fine due to rising cap.
Extension would kick in 2026-27 season and the projected cap for those 5 years is 170/187/205/226/249 million.
He can't get anything close to what they gave Vassell, though.

[rjv]

this is the sort of sample size that leads me to think; maybe you're on to something or maybe this is crappy reasoning.

[scott]

The new stricter salary floor can catch teams in a loop of mediocrity, where they end up having to overpay players to meet the floor which in turn hampers their flexibility down the road.

Loosely translated: tanking has reverberating consequences that you can't just flip a switch and be done with

[dn0774]

Tbh, 15 to 20 million a year would be fine due to rising cap.
Extension would kick in 2026-27 season and the projected cap for those 5 years is 170/187/205/226/249 million.
He can't get anything close to what they gave Vassell, though.

Yea the raw number will be higher than Collins and will look scarier than it actually is due to the rising cap, guess only % of cap is relevant. The Kuminga situation this coming off season might help Sochan see the light and sign a fair extension (for team and player) and lock in generational wealth even if it is less overall than what he would've expected it to be a couple of years ago. Kuminga is a better overall talent and was expecting a max extension from the GSW, needless to say that didn't happen so now we all get to see the new CBA in action this summer.

[scott]

Tbh, 15 to 20 million a year would be fine due to rising cap.
Extension would kick in 2026-27 season and the projected cap for those 5 years is 170/187/205/226/249 million.
He can't get anything close to what they gave Vassell, though.

I agree. I'm at the place where 4/60 seems like a bargain and 4/80 sounds like the top end of the acceptable range. I'm expecting 5/150 though :lol

[LeBowen]

Yea the raw number will be higher than Collins and will look scarier than it actually is due to the rising cap, guess only % of cap is relevant. The Kuminga situation this coming off season might help Sochan see the light and sign a fair extension (for team and player) and lock in generational wealth even if it is less overall than what he would've expected it to be a couple of years ago. Kuminga is a better overall talent and was expecting a max extension from the GSW, needless to say that didn't happen so now we all get to see the new CBA in action this summer.

There's also the Wemby factor.
Do you want a few more millions to be the tank commander or you want to play with the best player in the league?

I'd offer him big bonuses for shooting improvements.

[rjv]

i would love to see kuminga wind up a Spur but i'd also be happy with naz reid or even myles turner.

[RC_Drunkford]

They need to frontload his deal and add heavy 3-point shooting incentives

[dn0774]

i would love to see kuminga wind up a Spur but i'd also be happy with naz reid or even myles turner.

Please for the love of god no more projects that we pray learn how to shoot lol

[Knoxxx]

Let’s not write off Sochan too easily he was going for 17 and 9 before the first injury.

[ambchang]

$20 to $23M a year is what I’d expect for sochan. Like someone said earlier there should be clauses for shooting in the contract.

What I don’t get is the oft repeated comment about sochan being low IQ, why is that? He anticipated on defence very well, knows his place on offence, sets good screens and is a decent passer for his size, all indicating his IQ is at least decent. What is that about?

[scott]

$20 to $23M a year is what I’d expect for sochan. Like someone said earlier there should be clauses for shooting in the contract.

What I don’t get is the oft repeated comment about sochan being low IQ, why is that? He anticipated on defence very well, knows his place on offence, sets good screens and is a decent passer for his size, all indicating his IQ is at least decent. What is that about?

He does make stupid decisions from time to time and has a slower processing speed on the offensive end (from my uneducated fan perspective), but I agree with you I wouldn't call him low IQ. I think more than anything he's just young (except I don't think processing speed usually sees a dramatic jump)

[KingKev]

Spurs should have some good comps come extension time in Walker Kessler, Mark Williams, Tari Eason and Jalen Duren.

Tough to argue he is worth more than what any of these guys get outside of Williams mainly due to injuries.

[spursistan]

Watch them pay this borderline scrub 2nd/3rd banana money :lmao

[poopbox]

No, it was only 18 games.

He played point guard some during the tank year that got us Victor

[Manu-of-steel]

It's the coaches decision to play him in crunch time. Sochan is a nice player, defends well, rebounds, energy guy. Just dont put him in crunch time, that will be a disaster

[vy65]

$20 to $23M a year is what I’d expect for sochan. Like someone said earlier there should be clauses for shooting in the contract.

What I don’t get is the oft repeated comment about sochan being low IQ, why is that? He anticipated on defence very well, knows his place on offence, sets good screens and is a decent passer for his size, all indicating his IQ is at least decent. What is that about?

Tonight was a solid example of why people make that criticism. No situational awareness, out of position on key plays, etc. Winning players have an “it” factor, and as much as I love this guy, he is not a winning player.

[poopbox]

i would love to see kuminga wind up a Spur but i'd also be happy with naz reid or even myles turner.

Kuminga has...what does Scott call it... "main character syndrome" even more than Devin does. I'd like Turner or Reid though.

[Pauleta14]

20m-23M for Sochan ...:lmao

[dn0774]

Spurs should have some good comps come extension time in Walker Kessler, Mark Williams, Tari Eason and Jalen Duren.

Tough to argue he is worth more than what any of these guys get outside of Williams mainly due to injuries.

Based on some Rockets chatter i've seen the last few days sounds like Tari is considered damaged goods (leg pain that keeps flaring up ala Kawhi) and his extension offer will be priced accordingly. Eason is listed as day-to-day on the injury report but hasn't played in 3 weeks.

[Pauleta14]

Where are all the sniffers explaining us how important Sochan is for the future of the organization?

We miss you guys...

[Bill_Brasky]

Sochan shouldnt play in crunch time tbh

[spursistan]

they're seriously going to pay this guy and trot him out in the crunch time because he is supposedly a "core piece"?

https://x.com/house_of_spurs/status/1876535443862569362
https://x.com/house_of_spurs/status/1876538172886413581

[LeBowen]

^
Remember when Pop was talking how he can't run a lot of sets because players aren't good enough to do it?
To me this looks like more of the same. As in everything is simplified, players just take 1 through 5 roles and then they run it the same way regardless of who's on the floor.
Jeremy is standing in the same position a shooter would've been standing in and Devin will make that pass in the corner regardless of how good of a shooter is the receiver.
The worst thing of all is that it would work if our coach wasn't handicapping his already questionable roster with awful lineups.

[baseline bum]

A couple of weeks ago Sochan had a borderline star PER of 20, which was inflated because of a lot of the easy looks he got being spoonfed layups by Victor, but at least he was a guy finishing at the rim. But now his PER has dropped to 16.6, I mean damn it tanked fast.

[Pauleta14]

they're seriously going to pay this guy and trot him out in the crunch time because he is supposedly a "core piece"?


Yes, of course they will (Pop on record said Sochan is the closest to Manu he's ever seen) and most on ST will call you a hater because you dare question the logic and will play the stats contortionists to explain how great he is :lol

[rascal]

why did sochan shift to the left wing, he was wide open there, defender was off him but he decides to shift and… get closer to the defender???

Because he had missed an earlier shot a couple of minutes earlier and wasn't confident he could hit a shot from the corner/side.

[onechance87]

why did sochan shift to the left wing, he was wide open there, defender was off him but he decides to shift and… get closer to the defender???

Because he had missed an earlier shot a couple of minutes earlier and wasn't confident he could hit a shot from the corner/side.

Yup the bulls were ok with sochan taking that corner shot.This is the reason why he cant start with wemby.Good teams will exploit
that weakness.Bulls arent that good and still still easily figured it out.This team needs a lineup change with sochan and vassell.
They just completely ruined the momentum since they got forced back into the starting lineup.

[Pauleta14]

why did sochan shift to the left wing, he was wide open there, defender was off him but he decides to shift and… get closer to the defender???

Because he had missed an earlier shot a couple of minutes earlier and wasn't confident he could hit a shot from the corner/side.

Low IQ

Lack of situational awareness

[rjv]

I'm not sure what happened in that play where Sochan is in the corner. It would be hard for me to think that Mitch would draw up a play that would have Sochan occupying the corner since that would give the Bulls the opportunity to leave him and double on someone else. But, tbh, I don't know whey Champagnie wasn't in there instead of Sochan.

[Tyronn Lue]

Spurs didn't need a 3 at that time. Driving and the jump pass started the problem. Don't jump pass, that's a fundamental NBA lesson. You don't have an alternative except traveling once you're up there. I'd preferred Devin take the shot. Jeremy moving while Devin wasn't even seeing him was another problem. Victor was between his defender and Jeremy and could have easily screened that closeout.

Just either low basketball IQ or not enough time together to know what and what not to do. Everyone seems primed for a fast break or alley oop, but those 4th quarters have been shaky, since that's when other teams start to crank it up on D and take more risky shots, protect the ball more.

[spurraider21]

why did sochan shift to the left wing, he was wide open there, defender was off him but he decides to shift and… get closer to the defender???

Because he had missed an earlier shot a couple of minutes earlier and wasn't confident he could hit a shot from the corner/side.
guy realizes he needs some bounces off the rim/backboard to get his shots to fall, and from the corner you dont get that :lol

[spurraider21]

they're seriously going to pay this guy and trot him out in the crunch time because he is supposedly a "core piece"?

https://x.com/house_of_spurs/status/1876535443862569362
in these situations, he's had his success cutting as soon as the defender turns his back to him. could have had a layup/dunk here if he just did what's been working for him. or at the very least a quick give and go back to victor if the defenders try to deny the rim attempt

[TheChillFactor]

He'll be fucking up for a while. He's either going to learn or we're going to give him a million chances before we ship him out.

Richard Jefferson 2.0 in my opinion, I don't think he can help us win a title. But I don't get a vote.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/mikecwright/status/1876763007201546574

[spursistan]

https://x.com/mikecwright/status/1876763007201546574
boy if we beat the Bucks without him, the conversation will get way too uncomfortable for some :lol It is already getting traction on twitter.

[LeBowen]

Bucks and Lakers are rare matchups where Jeremy would be really useful.

[spursistan]

Bucks and Lakers are rare matchups where Jeremy would be really useful.
I think The Spurs offensive challenges with Sochan present a bigger issue and outweigh his contribution to defending POA guards/wings. Giannis will get his anyway and Lebron isn't the force he used to be...

[scott]

boy if we beat the Bucks without him, the conversation will get way too uncomfortable for some :lol It is already getting traction on twitter.

Yeah, I see that YouTuber "ClanTheSpursFan" is out in force white knighting for Sochan. This is the same dude who over the summer basically said that Sochan was the deal breaker for him in a potential Lauri trade

[tbdog]

Non shooters can play through clutch time. Draymond is obviously the perfect example of that. Herb Jones, Giddey, Mobley, Ben Simmons, Hachimura off the top of my head.

[100%duncan]

The sequences in the clutch last night....

1. Vic gets an entry into the paint, when he couldve easily forced things up, get fouled or get a dunk. Instead he passes of to Sochan to the corner which expectedly shot a short 3. This is more on Vic passing to Sochan tbh and more on Mitch playing Sochan here :lol

2. The next possession or so, Dev drives into the paint, draws Sochan's defender from the corner, and then passes to Sochan. But Sochan has already moved away from the spot because he didnt want to be taking that 3. Again this is more on Dev and Mitch.


From these 2 scenarios taken in isolation, Sochan isn't really the one at fault. But, his lack of shooting led to these 2 possessions being disasters. This really brings into question how they can play Sochan in the clutch or if he's really part of the core for the future. He's a good garbage man type of player who can give you a solid 30+ mins but there should be just very SPECIFIC scenarios for any team to be playing him in the clutch.

[spurraider21]

The sequences in the clutch last night....

1. Vic gets an entry into the paint, when he couldve easily forced things up, get fouled or get a dunk. Instead he passes of to Sochan to the corner which expectedly shot a short 3. This is more on Vic passing to Sochan tbh and more on Mitch playing Sochan here :lol

2. The next possession or so, Dev drives into the paint, draws Sochan's defender from the corner, and then passes to Sochan. But Sochan has already moved away from the spot because he didnt want to be taking that 3. Again this is more on Dev and Mitch.


From these 2 scenarios taken in isolation, Sochan isn't really the one at fault. But, his lack of shooting led to these 2 possessions being disasters. This really brings into question how they can play Sochan in the clutch or if he's really part of the core for the future. He's a good garbage man type of player who can give you a solid 30+ mins but there should be just very SPECIFIC scenarios for any team to be playing him in the clutch.
sochan's at fault for both

he's had a lot of success this year cutting when wemby gets doubled. on the first play, once the defender turned his back to sochan, he should have cut to the rim. wemby loves throwing him lobs. or if the defense somehow recovered and tried to challenge sochan's shot at the rim, could have just done a quick give and go and passed it right back to wemby for a quick shot

on the second play, there was no reason for him to vacate the corner. if he doesnt want to take the 3, whatever. pump and drive and see what happens. but leaving the corner that way as vassell is going downhill makes no sense

[100%duncan]

sochan's at fault for both

he's had a lot of success this year cutting when wemby gets doubled. on the first play, once the defender turned his back to sochan, he should have cut to the rim. wemby loves throwing him lobs. or if the defense somehow recovered and tried to challenge sochan's shot at the rim, could have just done a quick give and go and passed it right back to wemby for a quick shot

on the second play, there was no reason for him to vacate the corner. if he doesnt want to take the 3, whatever. pump and drive and see what happens. but leaving the corner that way as vassell is going downhill makes no sense

An average NBA player would and should take that three from Vic. The three wasn't the wrong shot, it was just the wrong player taking it.

On the Dev play, I see the argument. But again, he did that because there was no way in hell he would have wanted to take another corner 3 again.

Mitch playing Sochan over Champ and/or Castle (more so Champ) is really the ultimate problem here if we're just talking about winning these games for a better standing. Now talking about the future, hopefully there are considerations happening behind the scenes already. I doubt though.

[spurraider21]

An average NBA player would and should take that three from Vic. The three wasn't the wrong shot, it was just the wrong player taking it.
thats why he should prioritize cutting instead of waiting behind the 3 point line. its something he's done well this season. he didnt do it then, that's on him.


On the Dev play, I see the argument. But again, he did that because there was no way in hell he would have wanted to take another corner 3 again.
this isnt an excuse. if you dont want to take the corner 3, dont position yourself in the corner. but you have to make yourself a reliable passing outlet for a driving player. even if you fully intend to put the ball on the floor instead of shooting once you receive the ball... the first thing you have to do is receive the ball

[dbestpro]

I would love to see Cedi Osman back on this team tbh.

[100%duncan]

thats why he should prioritize cutting instead of waiting behind the 3 point line. its something he's done well this season. he didnt do it then, that's on him.


this isnt an excuse. if you dont want to take the corner 3, dont position yourself in the corner. but you have to make yourself a reliable passing outlet for a driving player. even if you fully intend to put the ball on the floor instead of shooting once you receive the ball... the first thing you have to do is receive the ball

Yes it's not an excuse, that's why shouldn't have been on the court. It's not like he was locking down Lavine anyway.

[ambchang]

Tonight was a solid example of why people make that criticism. No situational awareness, out of position on key plays, etc. Winning players have an “it” factor, and as much as I love this guy, he is not a winning player.

That would include everyone on the team, even wemby. I wouldn’t call wemby low iq.

[ambchang]

That Vassell play sochan should have either stayed there or charged hard at the basket for an offensive rebound or a dump off from Vassell instead of standing in no mans land.

The missed three is the right shot, just the wrong player. He could also have drove baseline then either finish or lob to wemby.

Both plays could’ve been better but he wasn’t the primary culprit. He shouldn’t even have been on the floor at that time.

However, the lead largely evaporated when he was on the bench. The issue is how the lineups work, sochan without at least two, preferably three shooters on the court doesn’t work, but the spurs really only have one.

[Pauleta14]

We're not winning this game with Sochan playing in the 4th