Our Spurs should trade the farm for Giannis!

[djohn2oo8]

Interesting. He said "San Antonio and Houston" several times in a row, it doesn't get much more emphatic than that.

A three-team deal with the Pelicans to get the Bucks their own picks back would be very difficult, though. The team acquiring Giannis would have to give the Pelicans enough assets to pry those picks loose, and those picks alone might not be enough of a return for the Bucks which means the acquiring team has to give up even more. Perhaps that's why Windhorst keeps talking about the Spurs and Rockets because they're the two teams with enough assets to get this done if they want and are looking to upgrade their rosters.

Houston has much more of an incentive to deal with Phoenix, though.
Rockets don’t have any incentive to deal with Phoenix with those picks. They can use them to get Giannis while the Bucks benefit from the Suns being shit.

[djohn2oo8]

1921918270199701882


Any deal with Phoenix is going to be for scraps

[LeBowen]

Imo, trading for Giannis is about if we can construct a top5 roster in the league after the trade.
Trading for him only to have awful 4th-8th player on the roster wouldn't be worth it, but if there's a bigger plan how to get a couple more elite role players, you go for it.
If Giannis even asks out, that is.

He surely has 3 MVP level seasons in him and a couple more all-star level ones after that. We saw what happened with Wemby, we can't take anything for granted and expect he'll have Duncan's longetivity.
Obviously he can get injured after trade for Giannis, but let's be honest, if Wemby suffers any kind of career altering injury, this franchise is fucked and some extra FRPs wouldn't change that situation.

As for the trade, it would surely be Castle (the only valuable young piece), Jeremy (cheap, some potential, doesn't fit with Giannis) and Keldon. Then either Barnes or Devin, depending on how they see Devin and would they rather have him or Barnes' expiring.
Then 4 or 5 FRPs on top of that.

[BatManu20]

1921937136216891459

[Dejounte]

Giannis is the perfect archetype next to Wemby tbh

of this archetype, there are lower level tiers

tier 4: Kevin Looney
tier 3: Onyeka Okongwu
tier 2: Bam Adebayao
tier 1: Giannis

[CGD]

1921929982915338476

The basic framework for the 3 way deal is there:

SAS: Giannis
MIL: Zion; NOP returns MIL (swaps)
NOP: Spurs Players & picks

Obviously need to Christmas tree up this thing with draft pick ornaments, but the framework is there.

[Kevin]

Still think there's no way the Spurs get him without giving up Castle. For a player like Giannis guys like Amen Thompson/Jalen Green/Jabari Smith and Chet Holmgren will be on the table.

If you're Wemby do you really want Giannis? He'll cast a big shadow over the first half of his career like Shaq did to Kobe.

[Joseph Kony]

I like Castle and all but he should not be a deal breaker in a potential Giannis deal

[itzsoweezee]

Giannis wants to win. He has a better shot with San Antonio. Houston will only have one of Amen or Sengun left, Brooklyn will still be trash. New Orleans without Zion wouldn’t be competitive. I like the Spurs’ chances better than any other team. Let’s hope for a top 4 pick and get this done.

[djohn2oo8]

Giannis wants to win. He has a better shot with San Antonio. Houston will only have one of Amen or Sengun left, Brooklyn will still be trash. New Orleans without Zion wouldn’t be competitive. I like the Spurs’ chances better than any other team. Let’s hope for a top 4 pick and get this done.
Victor’s future is still a question. Also if you give up Castle what else is left?

[Brazil]

Giannis wants to win. He has a better shot with San Antonio. Houston will only have one of Amen or Sengun left, Brooklyn will still be trash. New Orleans without Zion wouldn’t be competitive. I like the Spurs’ chances better than any other team. Let’s hope for a top 4 pick and get this done.

if he wants to win he will stay in the East, West is a dog fight

[LeBowen]

Giannis wants to win. He has a better shot with San Antonio. Houston will only have one of Amen or Sengun left, Brooklyn will still be trash. New Orleans without Zion wouldn’t be competitive. I like the Spurs’ chances better than any other team. Let’s hope for a top 4 pick and get this done.

Nets have a lot of assets and empty payroll, if Giannis has friends he wants to team up with, Nets would be the perfect destination.
I agree about the Rockets, they'd need a major revamp, not having any legit shooters was their downfall even before that hypothetical trade.
Pelicans won't even be considered.

[djohn2oo8]

Tonight’s lottery will determine a lot

[couchman]

If we get 1 or 2 we keep them and pick.
If we get 3 or 4 I’m in favor of trading them.
Not sure what happens if we stay at 8 & 14 or drop.

[itzsoweezee]

if he wants to win he will stay in the East, West is a dog fight

Have you been watching the playoffs? None of these teams, especially in the west, look particularly impressive. The championship is up for the taking.

[R. DeMurre]

If Utah wins the draft, I wonder if that makes a Markkanen deal more or less likely? The timeline for Markkanen/Flagg would still make sense, but rebuilding completely around Flagg is a move I could see Ainge going for too.

[Brazil]

Have you been watching the playoffs? None of these teams, especially in the west, look particularly impressive. The championship is up for the taking.

What team exactly looks impressive in the East tbh... ?

You need 36 wins in the East to be in the play in :lol If you are a future star and wants to get the best odd to win a title go to East, easier RS, easier path to the finals.. not even close

[CGD]

Still think there's no way the Spurs get him without giving up Castle. For a player like Giannis guys like Amen Thompson/Jalen Green/Jabari Smith and Chet Holmgren will be on the table.

If you're Wemby do you really want Giannis? He'll cast a big shadow over the first half of his career like Shaq did to Kobe.

Maybe you’re right in the end re Castle, but if you look under the hood at Houston’s potential offer it’s not that clear cut for them either. MIL will “demand” Amen Thompson from Houston. That’s a hard no apparently for them. Shangun isn’t everyone’s cup of tea given serious defensive and shooting limitations, so not sure if MIL would see that as the big prize either. So then it comes down to how they value Jalen Green….

[CGD]

If Utah wins the draft, I wonder if that makes a Markkanen deal more or less likely? The timeline for Markkanen/Flagg would still make sense, but rebuilding completely around Flagg is a move I could see Ainge going for too.

Markkanen looked alike ass this year. And that’s before you factor in his insane new deal. Hard pass.

[exstatic]

If you trade for Giannis, you are setting up Wemby to be in the exact situation that Giannis and Jokic are in now, the mid/late career doldrums. There would be no way to improve the team at that point with all of the good picks/swaps gone, and we’d likely have to cash him out at 27-28 years old and start over.

Trust the process. Keep the picks and swaps and use them. There is an enormous chance that from opening day last year to opening day next season that our roster could churn 40% with the 3 spots already gone in the Fox trade, plus all of the ending contracts we have. Let it play out.

[CGD]

Nets have a lot of assets and empty payroll, if Giannis has friends he wants to team up with, Nets would be the perfect destination.
I agree about the Rockets, they'd need a major revamp, not having any legit shooters was their downfall even before that hypothetical trade.
Pelicans won't even be considered.

They also have a huge gap at PG they would need to solve if they bring in Giannis. Fred is past his expiration date.

[bigzak25]

Giannis is the perfect archetype next to Wemby tbh

of this archetype, there are lower level tiers

tier 4: Kevin Looney
tier 3: Onyeka Okongwu
tier 2: Bam Adebayao
tier 1: Giannis

I'd take Okongwu in a heartbeat.

[exstatic]

They also have a huge gap at PG they would need to solve if they bring in Giannis. Fred is past his expiration date.

Fred would also likely have to be the bulk of the salary going out to match KD.

[djohn2oo8]

Maybe you’re right in the end re Castle, but if you look under the hood at Houston’s potential offer it’s not that clear cut for them either. MIL will “demand” Amen Thompson from Houston. That’s a hard no apparently for them. Shangun isn’t everyone’s cup of tea given serious defensive and shooting limitations, so not sure if MIL would see that as the big prize either. So then it comes down to how they value Jalen Green….
Rockets have the players and picks to get it done. Amen wouldn’t be going though Sengun would. And it’s easier to sell that you are technically giving them an all star back.

[CGD]

1921937136216891459

I totally get why the teams would like this, but what's the vision being sold to the player? Maybe it doesn't matter to him since he's banked a championship already, and his priority is being in NYC and seeding the next stage of his career/business opportunities.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Maybe you’re right in the end re Castle, but if you look under the hood at Houston’s potential offer it’s not that clear cut for them either. MIL will “demand” Amen Thompson from Houston. That’s a hard no apparently for them. Shangun isn’t everyone’s cup of tea given serious defensive and shooting limitations, so not sure if MIL would see that as the big prize either. So then it comes down to how they value Jalen Green….

There's a very logical framework for the trade:

Houston get Giannis
NO get Sengun
Milwaukee get a couple of young players and picks from Houston and their own picks from NO.

Hope Giannis stays in the east though.

[BatManu20]

Spurs or Rockets confirmed. (It's Amico, I know)

1921983682941784521

[CGD]

Rockets have the players and picks to get it done. Amen wouldn’t be going though Sengun would. And it’s easier to sell that you are technically giving them an all star back.

I'm not convinced they'd want Sengun, but we'll see. He's more Sabonis than Jokic, tbh.

[CGD]

Spurs or Rockets confirmed.

1921983682941784521

Watch Miami, again, pull a rabbit out of their asses.

[exstatic]

There's a very logical framework for the trade:

Houston get Giannis
NO get Sengun
Milwaukee get a couple of young players and picks from Houston and their own picks from NO.

Hope Giannis stays in the east though.

New Orleans isn’t returning Milwaukee’s picks for Sengün.

[Dex]

Spurs or Rockets confirmed. (It's Amico, I know)

1921983682941784521

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3P0oEX5oTmrkY/200.gif?cid=6c09b9521qcoljxyg5bwryiw5n9f6tnr8ztr8h 8bmtd95ps6&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.gif&ct=g

[spurraider21]

Victor’s future is still a question. Also if you give up Castle what else is left?
i dont think the spurs emptying the cupboard for giannis is the winning play, but i think the conversation only begins to make sense if we jump to #2 in the draft because that pick would carry a ton of value in trade talks

[thOOdee]

Giannis for castle and a three first, unless we get flagg, spurs have to pull the trigger. If we get a top 4 pick other tan flagg, include in trade along with three firsts, keeping castle.

[exstatic]

i dont think the spurs emptying the cupboard for giannis is the winning play, but i think the conversation only begins to make sense if we jump to #2 in the draft because that pick would carry a ton of value in trade talks

I think any pick 2-4 would get their attention. The reason most teams want the full spread of picks is so that maybe one of them becomes a 1-4 pick. Having that might make them less pick hungry, a bird in the hand, so to speak.

[spurraider21]

I think any pick 2-4 would get their attention. The reason most teams want the full spread of picks is so that maybe one of them becomes a 1-4 pick. Having that might make them less pick hungry, a bird in the hand, so to speak.
attention, sure. but Harper is a tier above the others and you could project him as a #1 option for a team, which you cant really do for other guys in this draft right now

[LeBowen]

If you trade for Giannis, you are setting up Wemby to be in the exact situation that Giannis and Jokic are in now, the mid/late career doldrums. There would be no way to improve the team at that point with all of the good picks/swaps gone, and we’d likely have to cash him out at 27-28 years old and start over.

Can't be compared.
Jokic never had an all-NBA teammate and Giannis had a 2 year contending window.

Wemby was arguably a top5 player for those couple of months before his conditioning issues started.
Giannis is the second best player in the league and will surely be a top5 player for at least 3 more years.
The last time two top5 players played together a lot of fans gave up on the league because it was straight up broken. And that was with was less forgiving CBA when it comes to building superteams.
We also happen to have an all-star point guard on the roster who's prime just started.

Spurs have 9 tradeable picks, 5 have swaps attached.
There would still be a lot of assets left after the trade. I'd personally do it with 5 FRPs in 2025-28 period and we'd still stay flexible in post-Giannis era.

I'm not saying we should 100% do it, but if there's an opportunity to trade for the second best player in the league, you have to consider it.
It can go wrong, but we can also go with the slow process and fail. Giannis guarantees a lot of wins.

The reason why I don't think it happens is coaching situation. I feel like Wright would've hired someone experienced if we went the Giannis route because that would mean instant contention and no margin for error.

[SupremeGuy]

No fucking way do we give up Castle. Holy fuck that'd be dumb.

If Giannis is really making a push to leave then the Bucks are in the passenger seat tbh.

I would much rather ride with a young team growing together.

If the lakers try something stupid then we send them every player not named Wemby, Castle, or Fox; and whatever draft picks they want.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

New Orleans isn’t returning Milwaukee’s picks for Sengün.

I think they might. Maybe give them another asset like Sheppard, whatever.

They're a small market team in a bad state, starved for some success, and Sengun is an All Star player signed long term. A player they could never attract otherwise. He also fits them very nicely and allows them to trade Zion, then build around Sengun, Murphy III, Jones, this year's pick and whatever they get from Zion. This isn't bad at all. Certainly better than waiting for Milwaukee's picks, which might realistically be in the 7-10 range. Also, you have to consider that one of the picks is a swap in 2026 and NO themselves don't project to be too much ahead of a non-tanking Milwaukee.

[Kevin]

Sengun plus picks for Giannis makes a lot of sense for the Bucks. As does Holmgren plus picks or Castle plus picks. Bucks aren't settling for picks and matching salary and nor should they since Giannis is open to several different destinations.

Sengun still only turns 23 next month although he feels much older for some reason.

[itzsoweezee]

What team exactly looks impressive in the East tbh... ?

You need 36 wins in the East to be in the play in :lol If you are a future star and wants to get the best odd to win a title go to East, easier RS, easier path to the finals.. not even close

Not true. The top of the eat is just as good, if not better than the top of the west. The only scary team in the west is OKC, and they have flaws. Just ask Giannis how easy the east is.

The west has the bigger stars, but a lot of those guys are close to the end of their careers.

[BatManu20]

Watch Miami, again, pull a rabbit out of their asses.

I posted about this earlier in this thread, but I don't see Miami as a legitimate option if Giannis wants to compete because it would almost certainly cost them Bam and/or Herro + draft picks (projected late in the First Round) to obtain him. Then Giannis would be surrounded by shit in Miami. That wouldn't be a competitive team. I seriously doubt he's interested in that. So we'll see what happens, but I'd be surprised if it's the Heat tbh. Rockets still make the most sense, followed by the Spurs. OKC and Brooklyn are the other dark horse contenders imo.

[scott]

Giannis is obviously awesome... no arguing that.

But I cannot for the life of me reconcile the concept of the Spurs acquiring Giannis while going the cheap, easy route with Mitch as HC. The two concepts are just so diametrically opposed that they are incoherent when viewed together.

I also don't think the Spurs have the desire or the testicular fortitude to play in a high stakes competitive trade scenario. The Spurs like value in their trades. The were gifted value in the Fox trade by De'Aaron and Klutch narrowing their list of destinations to one. Unless Giannis does the same, I don't think Brian Wright will want to pay a competitive price (and Brian is probably right... since Giannis is definitely going to cost the farm).

[BatManu20]

Twin Towers 2.0 tbh.

1922005389324816431

[exstatic]

Can't be compared.
Jokic never had an all-NBA teammate and Giannis had a 2 year contending window.

Wemby was arguably a top5 player for those couple of months before his conditioning issues started.
Giannis is the second best player in the league and will surely be a top5 player for at least 3 more years.
The last time two top5 players played together a lot of fans gave up on the league because it was straight up broken. And that was with was less forgiving CBA when it comes to building superteams.
We also happen to have an all-star point guard on the roster who's prime just started.

Spurs have 9 tradeable picks, 5 have swaps attached.
There would still be a lot of assets left after the trade. I'd personally do it with 5 FRPs in 2025-28 period and we'd still stay flexible in post-Giannis era.

I'm not saying we should 100% do it, but if there's an opportunity to trade for the second best player in the league, you have to consider it.
It can go wrong, but we can also go with the slow process and fail. Giannis guarantees a lot of wins.

The reason why I don't think it happens is coaching situation. I feel like Wright would've hired someone experienced if we went the Giannis route because that would mean instant contention and no margin for error.

You completely missed my point. Yes, such a trade would improve us short term, giving Wemby an All NBA teammate, but by the time Wemby is late 20s early 30s, our cupboard will be just as bare as Denver’s/Milwaukees, and it’ll be the same situation: no way to improve,no way out other than to blow it up and trade Wemby. We’ll be on the Denver/Milwaukee track if we make this trade.

[Kevin]

Giannis is obviously awesome... no arguing that.

But I cannot for the life of me reconcile the concept of the Spurs acquiring Giannis while going the cheap, easy route with Mitch as HC. The two concepts are just so diametrically opposed that they are incoherent when viewed together.

I also don't think the Spurs have the desire or the testicular fortitude to play in a high stakes competitive trade scenario. The Spurs like value in their trades. The were gifted value in the Fox trade by De'Aaron and Klutch narrowing their list of destinations to one. Unless Giannis does the same, I don't think Brian Wright will want to pay a competitive price (and Brian is probably right... since Giannis is definitely going to cost the farm).

You're probably right. Wright seems like an asset hoarder unless he can get guys for pennies on the dollar like Fox.

Mitch got the job without other coaching interviews in a stacked coaching free agent class. Objectively poor conduct if we're being honest. This is why I have no doubt that Sochan is getting a nice deal next summer no matter how useless he is on offense. Fully prepared for a 5/100M deal

[LeBowen]

You completely missed my point. Yes, such a trade would improve us short term, giving Wemby an All NBA teammate, but by the time Wemby is late 20s early 30s, our cupboard will be just as bare as Denver’s/Milwaukees, and it’ll be the same situation: no way to improve,no way out other than to blow it up and trade Wemby. We’ll be on the Denver/Milwaukee track if we make this trade.

Again, Nuggets/Bucks never had picks from other teams, they were always the buyers.
Castle, Devin (if they want him), salary filler and 5 FRPs would be the fair asking price, imo.
Spurs would still have 4 picks left and then all the picks from 2032 onward. That's why I said I'd trade the near future picks, not the 20131 ones. Hawks picks are still the most valuable assets we have, especially if we get lucky again.

The key question here is do you think we could get more value from Castle staying and Hawks picks than from Giannis?
I'd say that Nuggets and Bucks got stuck in no man's land not because they failed big trades, but because they wasted too many assets on smaller trades and missed with most of their late FRPs.

Then there's the Wemby question. Are you really banking on a 7'4 player being healthy in his late 20s?
The goal is to win championships and having rookie contract Wemby and Giannis would be the best way to do it, especially with the parity in the league right now.

Again, I'm not 100% sold on this, but the line between blowing your load too early and being left with your dick in your hand is very thin and there isn't an obvious answer in this situation.

Giannis' contract situation kind of fits the timeline because he's got a player option for 27-28 season, the same summer Wemby's extension kicks in.
Another thing is that Spurs would have a huge advantage in free agency because every veteran's first choice would be playing with Giannis and Wemby.

[rjv]

Giannis is tempting for all the obvious reasons but I think a more careful analysis would show that we would be better off not pulling the trigger on such a trade.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

There i no way we trade Castle!

Castle has 15 years of stardom left; Giannis has about 3.

The only way to get Giannis is to pray Spurs get a top 2 pick tonight and trade it plus fillers for Giannis.

[Joseph Kony]

Milwaukee fans are in complete fucking denial of what is about to happen to them. :lol feel bad for them honestly, can't be easy realizing your star player is not going to be content to get bounced in the first round for the rest of his career

[CGD]

Twin Towers 2.0 tbh.

1922005389324816431

Read: GTFO Brooklyn!

[KobesAchilles]

There i no way we trade Castle!

Castle has 15 years of stardom left; Giannis has about 3.

The only way to get Giannis is to pray Spurs get a top 2 pick tonight and trade it plus fillers for Giannis.
Stardom? So you are putting Giannis and Castle in the same stratosphere when it comes to stardom. Giannis is a top 5 player in the NBA. Castle will never be that. So Giannis has 3 MVP years and Castle has 15? What are you even saying. Like Giannis is going to suck when he is 34? Bc he will still be better than Castle.

Castle has 0 years of stardom and 15 years of being a solid player in the NBA.

[exstatic]

Again, Nuggets/Bucks never had picks from other teams, they were always the buyers.
Castle, Devin (if they want him), salary filler and 5 FRPs would be the fair asking price, imo.
Spurs would still have 4 picks left and then all the picks from 2032 onward. That's why I said I'd trade the near future picks, not the 20131 ones. Hawks picks are still the most valuable assets we have, especially if we get lucky again.

The key question here is do you think we could get more value from Castle staying and Hawks picks than from Giannis?
I'd say that Nuggets and Bucks got stuck in no man's land not because they failed big trades, but because they wasted too many assets on smaller trades and missed with most of their late FRPs.

Then there's the Wemby question. Are you really banking on a 7'4 player being healthy in his late 20s?
The goal is to win championships and having rookie contract Wemby and Giannis would be the best way to do it, especially with the parity in the league right now.

Again, I'm not 100% sold on this, but the line between blowing your load too early and being left with your dick in your hand is very thin and there isn't an obvious answer in this situation.

Giannis' contract situation kind of fits the timeline because he's got a player option for 27-28 season, the same summer Wemby's extension kicks in.
Another thing is that Spurs would have a huge advantage in free agency because every veteran's first choice would be playing with Giannis and Wemby.

That’s not the question. The actual question is will we get more value from Giannis or Castle/26 pick with swap/28 pick with swap/30 pick with 2 swaps. Milwaukee is going to want ALL of that, cleaning out our cupboard of everything except the 27 ATL, which effectively locks the 26 and 28 picks which is why it is not included. We traded our own 27 pick to Sacto, so that’s our only 27 pick.

[LeBowen]

That’s not the question. The actual question is will we get more value from Giannis or Castle/26 pick with swap/28 pick with swap/30 pick with 2 swaps. Milwaukee is going to want ALL of that, cleaning out our cupboard of everything except the 27 ATL, which effectively locks the 26 and 28 picks which is why it is not included. We traded our own 27 pick to Sacto, so that’s our only 27 pick.

We have two '25 picks, '26 with ATL swap, '27 ATL and '28 with BOS swap. That's 5 picks.
I also think Bucks want near-future picks because they want to go back up asap since they don't own any of their picks and tanking is pointless.

If we're talking trade details, our offer obviously falls short of potential OKC offer with Williams/Chet or even both.
I don't think Rockets trade happens because Bucks won't accept any offer than doesn't include Amen and Rockets don't want to trade him.

It's pretty much down to if OKC wants Giannis. If not, then Spurs can haggle with the Bucks that won't get a better offer.

[Seventyniner]

We have two '25 picks, '26 with ATL swap, '27 ATL and '28 with BOS swap. That's 5 picks.

Trading all 5 of those would violate the Stepien Rule, which says you can't make a trade that could potentially leave you two consecutive future drafts without a first. The Spurs can trade 5 firsts, but they would have to be SA25/ATL25/ATL27/SA29/SA31.

Or they could trade 6: on draft night, the 2025 picks are no longer "future" so I think instead the Spurs could trade SA25/ATL25/SA26/SA28/SA30/SA32, with all the swaps on the 26/28/30 picks.

[Jordan Jackson]

The only safe players are Wemby and Fox. Anyone claiming otherwise is going to be disappointed.

And yes, they will pull the trigger on a Giannis trade if it lines up
for them.

Shams leaking this before the lottery is not a coincidence either. Feel bad for Bucks fans. Next few months are going to be rough.

[LeBowen]

Trading all 5 of those would violate the Stepien Rule, which says you can't make a trade that could potentially leave you two consecutive future drafts without a first. The Spurs can trade 5 firsts, but they would have to be SA25/ATL25/ATL27/SA29/SA31.

Or they could trade 6: on draft night, the 2025 picks are no longer "future" so I think instead the Spurs could trade SA25/ATL25/SA26/SA28/SA30/SA32, with all the swaps on the 26/28/30 picks.

Yeah, I was thinking about a post-draft trade with Spurs picking the players Bucks want.
I completely forgot we traded '27 for Fox since it was such a fleece. :lol

[exstatic]

We have two '25 picks, '26 with ATL swap, '27 ATL and '28 with BOS swap. That's 5 picks.
I also think Bucks want near-future picks because they want to go back up asap since they don't own any of their picks and tanking is pointless.

If we're talking trade details, our offer obviously falls short of potential OKC offer with Williams/Chet or even both.
I don't think Rockets trade happens because Bucks won't accept any offer than doesn't include Amen and Rockets don't want to trade him.

It's pretty much down to if OKC wants Giannis. If not, then Spurs can haggle with the Bucks that won't get a better offer.

You can trade either the 27 ATL, or the 26 and 28 picks with swaps, not all of them. Having trade our own 27 to Sacto, we own only one pick in each 26,27,28 year, and sending any two consecutive future first round picks is a Stephen violation.

[mo7888]

Personally, I'm not holding Castle out if going for Giannis, but if he's in i think Castle + 4 frp + Sochan + filler is my best offer.

[Brazil]

Not true. The top of the eat is just as good, if not better than the top of the west. The only scary team in the west is OKC, and they have flaws. Just ask Giannis how easy the east is.

The west has the bigger stars, but a lot of those guys are close to the end of their careers.

Even if the top East is as good as and it is highly arguable, the rest is weaker... so you have easier RS and easier path to at least semi conference finals. Also your argument about end of their careers is quite doubtful to say the least, OKC is the youngest team in the league and the new generation is coming in teams like Timberwolves, Rockets, the Spurs have freaking Victor etc.. Bucks team is dysfunctional for years, not sure how this is a reference of anything

[benefactor]

Personally, I'm not holding Castle out if going for Giannis, but if he's in i think Castle + 4 frp + Sochan + filler is my best offer.
Agreed. The desire to hang on to Castle is just typical emotionally overattached spurs fan. I mean you are talking about pairing Giannis with Wemby. Jesus

[itzsoweezee]

Even if the top East is as good as and it is highly arguable, the rest is weaker... so you have easier RS and easier path to at least semi conference finals. Also your argument about end of their careers is quite doubtful to say the least, OKC is the youngest team in the league and the new generation is coming in teams like Timberwolves, Rockets, the Spurs have freaking Victor etc.. Bucks team is dysfunctional for years, not sure how this is a reference of anything

Wolves, Rockets, and Spurs? You think Giannis is scared of those teams? The west has a lot of parity. So what? No superstar seeking a championship is going to give a shit about that.

[itzsoweezee]

Time to get it done B Wright

[benefactor]

And now we're talking. Make the trade.

[djohn2oo8]

It's going to cost #2, and Castle at minimum.

[benefactor]

It's going to cost #2, and Castle at minimum.
They might work a way out to keep him but if they don't it's fine. I make that trade without even thinking about it.

[Dejounte]

Giannis is the most humble superstar and would be the perfect mentor for Wemby. Absolutely trade this pick for him.

[Trainwreck2100]

They might work a way out to keep him but if they don't it's fine. I make that trade without even thinking about it.
I prefer they play hard ball, harper is the best they are going to get back, Spurs should recognize that. I'd still make it contingent on draft night cause who knows what the fuck Nico is gonna do.

[Kevin]

Yeah Castle, the 2nd pick plus the Spurs 2031 first round pick with the Kings swapped attached should get it done for Giannis.

[spurraider21]

i dont think the spurs emptying the cupboard for giannis is the winning play, but i think the conversation only begins to make sense if we jump to #2 in the draft because that pick would carry a ton of value in trade talks
https://media.tenor.com/7StUizI8ktUAAAAM/awkward-awkward-silence.gif

[djohn2oo8]

I prefer they play hard ball, harper is the best they are going to get back, Spurs should recognize that. I'd still make it contingent on draft night cause who knows what the fuck Nico is gonna do.
Dallas could also just decide to trade for Giannis.....

[vy65]

I really don’t like this trade. He’s 31. Do we think we have enough between Fox Giannis and Wemby for title contention. I also don’t like making Wemby not be our center piece.

[vy65]

Dallas could also just decide to trade for Giannis.....

Why?

[djohn2oo8]

Why?
Because Nico is stupid. He had Luka and traded him. They want to win now. Giannis/AD/Kyrie

[dn0774]

It's going to cost #2, and Castle at minimum.

One or the other, not both.

[benefactor]

I really don’t like this trade. He’s 31. Do we think we have enough between Fox Giannis and Wemby for title contention. I also don’t like making Wemby not be our center piece.
Giannis has said he wants to play with another star to take the pressure off of him. Wemby will be number one and Giannis will be number two.

[Trainwreck2100]

Dallas could also just decide to trade for Giannis.....
Yeah, your owner ain't agreeing to trade a corn fed white boy for a foreigner.

[024]

Didn't think this was feasible but now that the Spurs have the 2nd pick, they could have a better package over OKC and HOU.

Don't mind trading Castle to get Giannis but that won't put the Spurs in title contention just yet IMO. They still need a total retool of their role players and giving up too many assets in the trade may leave no picks remaining to get that.

Wondering if Dallas is also looking into this. For their roster, I would give up Flagg for Giannis. Just no idea how the salary works out.

[HankChinaski]

We don't want Giannis for what it will cost.

Look at New Orleans, Utah, Toronto as examples for trade options. You can get value with out trading the farm and retain future financial and trade flexibility.

[rankingtear]

We don't want Giannis for what it will cost.

Look at New Orleans, Utah, Toronto as examples for trade options. You can get value with out trading the farm and retain future financial and trade flexibility.

What would it cost? In terms unprotected picks and swaps how many years of pick control do you think Giannis is worth now?

[HankChinaski]

What would it cost?

I'm not going to play armchsir GM.

It's simple draft best player available at #2 try to squeeze teams for the best fit and assets for them to trade up, or you just keep the player and look at free agency and see abouting moving off players currently on the roster thst needs to be cut off

[rankingtear]

I'm not going to play armchsir GM.

It's simple draft best player available at #2 try to squeeze teams for the best fit and assets for them to trade up, or you just keep the player and look at free agency and see abouting moving off players currently on the roster thst needs to be cut off

You are though. There is a number in your head what is it? 7 years of pick control? 10 years?

[Pauleta14]

Haven't read the last 14 (!!! smh) pages but I don't get how a Spurs fan would even want him tbh

At best it looks like a desperate move to satisfy a franchise player to resign, which isn't the Spurs's present.

He can't shoot, he's injury prone, he doesn't have a game to last long... it's insane to me :lol

[LeBowen]

For me the game just changed.
I'm not including both Harper and Castle in the trade. One obviously has to go, but not both.
We were all including Castle, Devin and 5 FRPs under the assumption we don't move up, but #2 is exponentially more valuable than any future pick.

[thOOdee]

People wanting to trade our rookie of the year, and what would be a first pick in any other year for a 5 year rental are crazy. You trade one of the two and two firsts (one of which is the spurs).

honestly love hankchinaski’s idea and get multiple solid pieces. Sochan, devin, and keldon are not the ones.

[LeBowen]

5 year rental

This might be the greatest thing anyone has even written in here. :lol

[ambchang]

Again, due to the cap, Giannis or fox will have to be traded by the time Wembys extension kicks in, otherwise the spurs will have 90-95% of the cap tied to 3 players, with castle due for an extension the year after. Vassell must be unloaded to free up $25m immediately without taking on any long term salary, which is hard to do as Vassell isn’t exactly a hot commodity right now and not many teams are willing to give up 12-13% of their cap for him, unless the spurs are willing to compensate with draft assets.

Trading fox is probably the better basketball move, but optically it would be terrible for the spurs. No one will ever force their way to the spurs ever again.

[thOOdee]

This might be the greatest thing anyone has even written in here. :lol

lol im assuming sarcasm, but honestly while curious to see a wemby giannis pairing, unless you find niche pieces to surround them, i just dont see immediate dynasty.

[LeBowen]

lol im assuming sarcasm, but honestly while curious to see a wemby giannis pairing, unless you find niche pieces to surround them, i just dont see immediate dynasty.

I just find saying something like 5 year rental hillarious. Oxymoron.

[HankChinaski]

Again, due to the cap, Giannis or fox will have to be traded by the time Wembys extension kicks in, otherwise the spurs will have 90-95% of the cap tied to 3 players, with castle due for an extension the year after. Vassell must be unloaded to free up $25m immediately without taking on any long term salary, which is hard to do as Vassell isn’t exactly a hot commodity right now and not many teams are willing to give up 12-13% of their cap for him, unless the spurs are willing to compensate with draft assets.

Trading fox is probably the better basketball move, but optically it would be terrible for the spurs. No one will ever force their way to the spurs ever again.

This is what I am seeing with going after Giannis you end up in scenarios just like the Bucks, Suns, Celtics. They are either dealing with cap / salary issues (Boston, Suns) or have no assets to work with (Bucks and Suns).

Celtics have to find someone to take on Holidays old ass and expensive contract. They are not going to want to trade White but might have to because they have too much money on their starting five with Taintyums and Brown who are not worth their salary but are good players

Spurs go after Giannis and still have fox castle and Wemby. After Wemby extension and Castle lives up to his potential you have to make moves to get under cap apron to get his extension in and no more picks to work with filling out the roster.

[thOOdee]

I just find saying something like 5 year rental hillarious. Oxymoron.


ok then, lease to own.

[HankChinaski]

Having said that. You really want Giannis you could see about an offer for either Castle or Fox plus 2 future firsts and that would be it. Trading fox wouldn't look good with working with agents in the future and Losing castle would suck but if you keep the#2 and bring in Harper you hope his shot % increases then you could be live with that.

[LeBowen]

ok then, lease to own.

It's not about the term rental, but 5 year rental.
Rental is one or two seasons, 5 years is as much as you can expect for a player you traded for and haven't drafted.

[Ice009]

Having said that. You really want Giannis you could see about an offer for either Castle or Fox plus 2 future firsts and that would be it. Trading fox wouldn't look good with working with agents in the future and Losing castle would suck but if you keep the#2 and bring in Harper you hope his shot % increases then you could be live with that.

The Spurs will not be trading Fox after he asked to be traded to the Spurs. They just don't operate like that, so no, you can't get Giannis if you have to trade Fox, simply because, the Spurs won't do that to him.

[HankChinaski]

The Spurs will not be trading Fox after he asked to be traded to the Spurs. They just don't operate like that, so no, you can't get Giannis if you have to trade Fox, simply because, the Spurs won't do that to him.

I agree they won't but people were asking what it would cost. Realistically it would have to be between those two options.

Castle +2 firsts for Giannis. Spurs keep 2025 #2 draft Harper.

As good as it gets with keeping Roster the same.

Harper appears to have a similar trajectory as Castle.

[benefactor]

Castle and two firsts.....:lol

Maybe if I put 4 new tires on my Mustang GT and and give it a nice fresh detail they will give me a Ferrari for it.

[HankChinaski]

Castle and two firsts.....:lol

Maybe if I put 4 new tires on my Mustang GT and and give it a nice fresh detail they will give me a Ferrari for it.

I don't see any teams willing to offer 4+ future firsts + filler that would. I think that is the best offer they receive from teams something equating that.

3 years ago I think most front offices laugh out loud laughing at an offer like that.

He should cost 4+ picks. Nobody wants to pay that anymore after the last several years and how those trades fared

[LeBowen]

Castle or Harper, Devin, salary filler and 4 to 5 FRPs is the fair price for Giannis.
Would the Spurs pay it? I'm not sure. Would I pay it? I'm also not sure.
But even if Giannis leaves, he won't be one of those guys who tanks his value and leaves Bucks with nothing in return.
He's the second best player in the league and has 3 more years on this level. Odds of anything Bucks get in return ever being better than Giannis are almost non-existant.

[Seventyniner]

How many future firsts is guaranteed #2 overall worth? Gotta be at least 3, right?

[thOOdee]

Two future allstars, and 5/4 frp for giannis is the definition of mortgaging ur future. Definitely not worth it. Hell giannis was the 15th pick. Spurs would be gifting a get out of jail card and subsidizing bucks dumb ass decisions they got themselves into.

[Raven]

this is getting interesting

[Atl Spur]

Having the #2 pick is huge; Harper , vassell, johnson, Sochan, 2 future first. Fox, castle, Barnes ( expiring ), freak, Vic. Add #14 pick + santi aldama

[BatManu20]

Giannis will be a Houston Rocket tbh.

[thOOdee]

tXbGfHBRx_8


man giannis makes these kids look like middle schoolers

[RC_Drunkford]

trading #2 + fillers for Giannis should be considered, but I'm not sending the Bucks #2 plus 4 more picks for him. Spurs need to stay flexible and hope one of those swaps hits. Really just depends on the price tbh.

[Robz4000]

I'd do #2, MIL's choice of pick swap year, and filler for Giannis. Otherwise move on.

[spursistan]

I'd do #2, MIL's choice of pick swap year, and filler for Giannis. Otherwise move on.
Think if Pop was still Head Coach and going strong health-wise, Spurs go all in for Giannis on draft night. But this feels like too much on Mitch Johnson's plate in his first season. After the Fox trade, this is way too seismic change in a short period of time for a traditionally gun-shy and methodical franchise.

My prediction: Spurs roll with Harper and maybe sniff around KD/Cam Johnson/Collins fortifying the big/wing positions via trade and/or FA.

[spursparker9]

I will keep Castle and offer Fox

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I will keep Castle and offer Fox

Fox has no value to Milwaukee because he won’t re-sign there so he’d be just an expiring.

Not to mention Spurs won’t do him dirty after he demanded a trade to SA specifically.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/sam_amick/status/1922306735194161486

[John B]

tXbGfHBRx_8


man giannis makes these kids look like middle schoolers

Not Dylan. Giannis even thinks he’s 6’7 and pleasantly surprised learning Dylan plays guard.

Bailey looks 2 inches shorter next to Giannis. But Giannis has grown from 6’9 to 6’11 after his rookie year, taller and is probably closer to 7 than 6’11. But Gianni’s shoulders are much higher, higher standing reach 9’6 while Bailey at 8’11 which is not bad but not a freak.

[CGD]

tXbGfHBRx_8


man giannis makes these kids look like middle schoolers

Gotta say, i was more impressed with Giannis' work regime and teaching. Pretty damn impressive.

[BatManu20]

1922234216248492473

[spurraider21]

I'd do #2, MIL's choice of pick swap year, and filler for Giannis. Otherwise move on.
is vassell considered filler?

[BatManu20]

1922234216248492473

[mo7888]

is vassell considered filler?

Frim our perspective yes....from the perspective of a team trading for him he's more than filler.

[itzsoweezee]

#2, 2027 first, Vassell, Sochan, and whatever filler needed. That’s one lottery pick with star potential, and two former lottery picks, and Atlanta’s 2027 pick could become anything. The rockets could beat that, but I don’t think they’re trading Amen anywhere.

[Seventyniner]

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of trading for Giannis. The price will be steep and the Spurs only have one excess first now (this year's #14 pick).

I get that guys like Vassell and Keldon are mostly dead salary weight, but trading for Giannis would be an attempt to mortgage the future and move the contention window to right now, while the future looks much brighter with the #2 pick in hand and most of a decade of the Castle/Harper duo on the horizon in addition to a first every year, a few potentially juicy swap rights, and being a prime FA destination for role-playing forwards.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

We will not trade for Giannis, even if it costs only Harper + filler.

With Giannis, we would only have 3-year championship window. We may not even win a championship in these 3 years.

Then, both Fox and Giannis get old and we need to start over again.

With Harper, castle, Wemby, we have 10+ year window and will win at least 3 titles.

[ginobilized]

The Spurs are building a home-grown behemoth. I don't think Giannis is part of their vision for the future. I can roll with that.
My hope is to be a 3rd or 4th team in one of these trades and grab a PJ Washington or Jabari Smith type while unloading KJ, Vassell, Branham or Wesley.

[itzsoweezee]

We will not trade for Giannis, even if it costs only Harper + filler.

With Giannis, we would only have 3-year championship window. We may not even win a championship in these 3 years.

Then, both Fox and Giannis get old and we need to start over again.

With Harper, castle, Wemby, we have 10+ year window and will win at least 3 titles.

You’re out of your minds if you think Harper, Castle, and Wemby are winning a championship anytime soon. Young players don’t win championships.

[mo7888]

We will not trade for Giannis, even if it costs only Harper + filler.

With Giannis, we would only have 3-year championship window. We may not even win a championship in these 3 years.

Then, both Fox and Giannis get old and we need to start over again.

With Harper, castle, Wemby, we have 10+ year window and will win at least 3 titles.

If it were only Harper + Filler we'd make that trade 10 times out of 10. That said, they'd laugh us out of the building with that paltry offer.

[John B]

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of trading for Giannis. The price will be steep and the Spurs only have one excess first now (this year's #14 pick).

I get that guys like Vassell and Keldon are mostly dead salary weight, but trading for Giannis would be an attempt to mortgage the future and move the contention window to right now, while the future looks much brighter with the #2 pick in hand and most of a decade of the Castle/Harper duo on the horizon in addition to a first every year, a few potentially juicy swap rights, and being a prime FA destination for role-playing forwards.

This is the Spurs-y way I agree. A steady pool of 1st picks and swaps to surround Castle/Wemby/Dylan. This team will be good for a very long time. It’s great to be the Holts right now and the city of San Antonio. Before it’s through the Spurs will again be the envy of all, on how they are meticulous on making their decisions. The more I don’t see selling the farm for Giannis to get rich quick.

[montgod]

Fox has no value to Milwaukee because he won’t re-sign there so he’d be just an expiring.

Not to mention Spurs won’t do him dirty after he demanded a trade to SA specifically.

True, plus their focus would be draft picks and young players since they don't have any of their own to rebuild.

[John B]

The Spurs are building a home-grown behemoth. I don't think Giannis is part of their vision for the future. I can roll with that.
My hope is to be a 3rd or 4th team in one of these trades and grab a PJ Washington or Jabari Smith type while unloading KJ, Vassell, Branham or Wesley.

Sneaky but yeah. Jabari will be awesome and a perfect compliment for Wemby at only 22. If somehow Spurs can help shore off those future FRP’s to help Rockets get Giannis. We get Jabari without losing Dylan. Fox/Castle/Dylan/Jabari/Wemby. That Castle/Dylan/Wemby/Jabari core for years. I’m in!

[ducks]

We will not trade for Giannis, even if it costs only Harper + filler.

With Giannis, we would only have 3-year championship window. We may not even win a championship in these 3 years.

Then, both Fox and Giannis get old and we need to start over again.

With Harper, castle, Wemby, we have 10+ year window and will win at least 3 titles.
Wemby you are not guaranteed he play more then 5-10 years
His body could break down
Heck he only had a health scare and was shut down half a year. Win now !

[rascal]

You’re out of your minds if you think Harper, Castle, and Wemby are winning a championship anytime soon. Young players don’t win championships.

This core will win more future championships then trying to get a quick title now by breaking this up along with trading future draft picks.

[itzsoweezee]

This core will win more future championships then trying to get a quick title now by breaking this up along with trading future draft picks.

That is an unserious statement. There is nothing to “break up”. The Spurs are Wemby, a very good role player (Fox), a young decent role player (Castle), and nothing else worth mentioning. Suggesting that adding a 20 year old Dylan Harper to that mix will yield championships is beyond stupid.

[Ice009]

I don't know about this. I am normally highly for the Spurs' team building approach when getting a superstar via the draft and building around him, but Giannis is one of THE guys I'd consider strongly to go the trade/FA route. He's a magnificent player, so if the option was there and he wanted to come, this would be a super tough decision if I were the one having to make the decision/s.
He's the only player in NBA history with these numbers 30pts+, 10rbs+, 5ast+, 60%+ shooting from the field. He's done in the past two seasons and no-one else has done it in NBA history. He's not really slowing down. Sure, he's had some injuries, but yeah, tough, tough call. I'm still 60/40 on going the build it up homegrown Spurs' way, but man, just a tough call.

[LeBowen]

I don't know about this. I am normally highly for the Spurs' team building approach when getting a superstar via the draft and building around him, but Giannis is one of THE guys I'd consider strongly to go the trade/FA route. He's a magnificent player, so if the option was there and he wanted to come, this would be a super tough decision if I were the one having to make the decision/s.
He's the only player in NBA history with these numbers 30pts+, 10rbs+, 5ast+, 60%+ shooting from the field. He's done in the past two seasons and no-one else has done it in NBA history. He's not really slowing down. Sure, he's had some injuries, but yeah, tough, tough call. I'm still 60/40 on going the build it up homegrown Spurs' way, but man, just a tough call.

The biggest issue with Giannis trade is that we'd have to make a few other trades for high end role players.
If you go for Giannis who's turning 31 in December, you go all out and contend right away, no adjustment seasons or whatever.

Getting Giannis only for whoever's left from the current roster to be the 4th/5th/6th best player would probably end with a disappointing playoff elimination.

[skin27]

We dont need this trade tbh. Wemby is entering his prime couple of years from now. Wemby just need to get good role palyers around him (fox,castle and harper are enough)and hopefully he becomes mature and start playing smart basketball.

[tbdog]

If Bucks say, we want to match salary, so Keldon and Barnes plus Sochan or something to make it work. Plus ALT picks and two more from Spurs. But they want either Harper or Castle.

3 options.
No trade
Trade Castle
Trade Harper

[mo7888]

If Bucks say, we want to match salary, so Keldon and Barnes plus Sochan or something to make it work. Plus ALT picks and two more from Spurs. But they want either Harper or Castle.

3 options.
No trade
Trade Castle
Trade Harper

I'd trade Castle in that scenario, but I wouldn't give the 4 firsts on top of that. 3 would be my max. I don't think the market would really beat that.

[Mal]

If Bucks say, we want to match salary, so Keldon and Barnes plus Sochan or something to make it work. Plus ALT picks and two more from Spurs. But they want either Harper or Castle.

3 options.
No trade
Trade Castle
Trade Harper

You need to trade Vassell, he has the biggest cap hit, and is expendable

[spurraider21]

I'd trade Castle in that scenario, but I wouldn't give the 4 firsts on top of that. 3 would be my max. I don't think the market would really beat that.
Castle, 2 ATL picks, and our 2029 (our one pick without swap rights built in)

[KobesAchilles]

My random thoughts

Here’s the thing. It’s a gamble either way. You’re gambling that Harper is going to ascend into stardom and help Wemby ring or you’re gambling that Giannis will ring here within 3 years. Can a Fox, Wemby, Giannis combo win the west next year if all healthy? I think they could. I think they’d match up with anybody in the West very well. And theirs nobody next year in the East that scares me.

Second question: Is there a way to get Giannis with just Castle or just Harper? Idk we’d have to call Mil and see that their asking price for him is. But if there is a way to do it then I think you’re doing a disservice not bringing Giannis in. Also why do people assume that Giannis is going to fall off the map at 34? He’s in the best shape I’ve ever seen a human being. He works incredibly hard at his craft. He takes the game about as serious as I’ve seen a player and he always gives 100% on the court when he plays. Oh and he’s still ridiculously tall and strong. Those types of players don’t fall off the map. I actually feel confident in saying that in the next 8 seasons, Giannis will be better than Castle in all 8 and better than Harper in 6.

Can Fox, Castle, and Harper all coincide with each other harmoniously while playing high level basketball? I would say that they could. Wemby is obviously our 1st option. Fox our second. Then Castle and Harper are going to battle each other for the 3rd option. But that 4th option is only going to get like 10 shots a game. Is that enough for these young ball dominant guards?

What if both Harper and Castle don’t play point guard for their time playing here? Like what if Castle never develops into a PG and same with Harper? What do we do then? Do we extend Fox after his contract runs out? Do we draft a point guard? What if both of these players never really develop a consistent jumper? Now how do we play them together? There’s just as many questions for me with keeping them all as there is with trading them.

Either option is a gamble but to say that one side is 100% a good and the other 100% doomsday is just disingenuous

[TekXX]

If we can get Giannis for the #2 pick and change then of course you go for it. Harper ain't going to be a Giannis

[cd98]

If we can get Giannis for the #2 pick and change then of course you go for it. Harper ain't going to be a Giannis

First, you don't know if Harper is going to be better than Giannis. Second, he is much cheaper and easier to build around than Giannis at this point. Third, if Giannis has a season ending injury, like Tatum, you are more screwed than if something were to happen with Harper. Fourth, you can always trade Harper at any point or wait and see if he is better than Castle, and then trade Castle. Fifth, if Wemby can't finish a season (so far not looking like he can), then the Spurs aren't competing for a title with Giannis and they lose all their draft capital.

If Giannis wasn't on a supermax deal, then it would be more palpable. But the Spurs would be acquiring the most expensive version of Giannis on the wrong side of 30. I mean, ultimately, if they work out Harper and don't see him as a future star, then they can trade down or trade for Giannis, but no reason to rush into anything. Even if Harper is never as good as Giannis, if he is the next Hardin or Cunningham, then he will be better for more years on the Spurs than a trade for 30 year old Giannis. Hindsight is 20/20, but I'm more for drafting Harper at this point.

[LeBowen]

Here’s the thing. It’s a gamble either way. You’re gambling that Harper is going to ascend into stardom and help Wemby ring or you’re gambling that Giannis will ring here within 3 years. Can a Fox, Wemby, Giannis combo win the west next year if all healthy? I think they could. I think they’d match up with anybody in the West very well. And theirs nobody next year in the East that scares me.

I'd change it to gambling that Harper will ascend into stardom and that our other assets will become valuable since most picks have swaps attached.
They could win the West, but as we're seeing experience means a lot. Fox has 7 playoff games under his belt, noone else did shit. Barnes is the only proven veteran and he could be on his way out in a potential Giannis trade.


Second question: Is there a way to get Giannis with just Castle or just Harper? Idk we’d have to call Mil and see that their asking price for him is. But if there is a way to do it then I think you’re doing a disservice not bringing Giannis in. Also why do people assume that Giannis is going to fall off the map at 34? He’s in the best shape I’ve ever seen a human being. He works incredibly hard at his craft. He takes the game about as serious as I’ve seen a player and he always gives 100% on the court when he plays. Oh and he’s still ridiculously tall and strong. Those types of players don’t fall off the map. I actually feel confident in saying that in the next 8 seasons, Giannis will be better than Castle in all 8 and better than Harper in 6.

No way I'd give both of them up with a lot of picks on top of it.
I think if we're talking just pure ability, Giannis easily has a top10 of all time case and that his age/conditioning won't ever be in question. At least not until he's like 36 or something.
My issue is that we'd have to make more trades and we'd have only one real chance to assemble a championship roster. If any of those trades fail, we'd be stuck with a flawed roster.
Then there's the coaching question which is the most telling for me. If they were serious about Giannis, they wouldn't have hired a rookie coach who's never even been an assistant on a playoff team.


Can Fox, Castle, and Harper all coincide with each other harmoniously while playing high level basketball? I would say that they could. Wemby is obviously our 1st option. Fox our second. Then Castle and Harper are going to battle each other for the 3rd option. But that 4th option is only going to get like 10 shots a game. Is that enough for these young ball dominant guards?

Wemby will be the best player in the league in no time. If someone is unhappy with their role, they can go and play hero ball somewhere else.
Worst case scenario we get a Fox/Haliburton situation with Castle/Harper and get a lot of assets or a more fitting player in return for one of them.


What if both Harper and Castle don’t play point guard for their time playing here? Like what if Castle never develops into a PG and same with Harper? What do we do then? Do we extend Fox after his contract runs out? Do we draft a point guard? What if both of these players never really develop a consistent jumper? Now how do we play them together? There’s just as many questions for me with keeping them all as there is with trading them.

Do we even need Castle to develop into a full time point guard? After we fired up the tank he got the green light to put up numbers, but is that even his ideal role? Because he can be an elite connecting piece and a secondary playmaker.
Harper is a natural point guard, no question about it.
I think most of your questions are good questions to have.

Look at it this way. We were expected to get #5 and #8 picks, instead we got #4 and #2.
Most players don't reach their full potential. If we keep both and one busts (no chance, tbh), with the other one becoming just a borderline all-star, we still got great value.
Imo, Harper's floor is elite 6th man and Castle's floor is elite glue guy. Both can reach stardom, but nothing is a guarantee.
Will they ever be better than Giannis? No chance. But how many MVP trades that required a massive haul worked out?

[KobesAchilles]

I'd change it to gambling that Harper will ascend into stardom and that our other assets will become valuable since most picks have swaps attached.
They could win the West, but as we're seeing experience means a lot. Fox has 7 playoff games under his belt, noone else did shit. Barnes is the only proven veteran and he could be on his way out in a potential Giannis trade.



No way I'd give both of them up with a lot of picks on top of it.
I think if we're talking just pure ability, Giannis easily has a top10 of all time case and that his age/conditioning won't ever be in question. At least not until he's like 36 or something.
My issue is that we'd have to make more trades and we'd have only one real chance to assemble a championship roster. If any of those trades fail, we'd be stuck with a flawed roster.
Then there's the coaching question which is the most telling for me. If they were serious about Giannis, they wouldn't have hired a rookie coach who's never even been an assistant on a playoff team.



Wemby will be the best player in the league in no time. If someone is unhappy with their role, they can go and play hero ball somewhere else.
Worst case scenario we get a Fox/Haliburton situation with Castle/Harper and get a lot of assets or a more fitting player in return for one of them.



Do we even need Castle to develop into a full time point guard? After we fired up the tank he got the green light to put up numbers, but is that even his ideal role? Because he can be an elite connecting piece and a secondary playmaker.
Harper is a natural point guard, no question about it.
I think most of your questions are good questions to have.

Look at it this way. We were expected to get #5 and #8 picks, instead we got #4 and #2.
Most players don't reach their full potential. If we keep both and one busts (no chance, tbh), with the other one becoming just a borderline all-star, we still got great value.
Imo, Harper's floor is elite 6th man and Castle's floor is elite glue guy. Both can reach stardom, but nothing is a guarantee.
Will they ever be better than Giannis? No chance. But how many MVP trades that required a massive haul worked out?
These are all good points and tbh I’m fine with either option. I would lean towards a Giannis trade and personally I would pull the trigger. But you make some interesting points about the organization as a whole that I 100% agree with. The Spurs did not take the next three years as seriously as they should’ve. They instead went with the well Wemby is young approach. And I’m not even saying that’s the wrong approach to have. But the way they went about it imo was the wrong way.

Let’s say the Spurs are thinking solely about the future and having these 3 young players in Castle Wemby and Harper playing together for the next decade plus. And Wemby will be the best player in the planet and either Harper or Castle will or both are his all star teammates. That’s a fine thought. Now where in this thought process does hiring Mitch help this process. A rookie coach who has never really been the actual coach before where the buck ends with him. But okay let’s say that well since Pop did it in 97 than that means anyone can do it since it has happened before. So now we are saying that Wemby is going to be the best player in the world (he’s not yet) Castle’s range is at worst a super 6 man to an all star (he’s not there currently) and Harper has the same floor as Castle with his ceiling being Harden (again he hasn’t shown that yet obviously). So we have three pretty big supposes. AND we add our 4th suppose that Mitch is going to be a great coach that will grow with Wemby. All four of those are pretty big supposes.

Now I assume that the Spurs plan going forward is for Mitch to be a high end coach. Well then where is the actual plan in place to ensure that? Where are his veteran assistants? Where is his strong second and third man that can give him advice and offer solutions or viewpoints that either differ from Mitch or just were something he had never thought of before bc he is a rookie head coach. You want Wemby to be the best player in the world? And Harper to be Hardin and Castle to be an all-star. Well where are the top tiered player development coaches? Bc I’m pretty sure that Cleveland, Boston, Detroit, Orlando, Indy, OKC, Hou are all teams making the playoffs with young players on their roster. Youth can’t be the excuse every damn time. Other teams are winning with their youth. You want Castle and Harper to learn how to shoot? Where is our top tiered shooting coach? Why haven’t we poached back Chip from OKC? Like the Spurs claim to have all these lofty goals as an organization and instead of implementing actual steps to achieve them, they’re just putting it all on the shoulders of a 21 year old kid. It’s a bad way to run a franchise and it almost never works.

Now what does adding Giannis to the team mean for the Spurs? It means getting an actual MVP level player. It means that our 21 year old franchise player who Chinook has correctly identified as not ready yet to carry a franchise doesn’t have to immediately carry a franchise. It means you can’t double team Wemby. It means that Wemby gets to see the best conditioned player in the world train and practice and for a player that struggles with conditioning that might be helpful. It also shortens the time needed to identify whether or not Mitch is the guy going forward. It also brings a seriousness to the team that I believe the whole culture needs. There’s too much playing in the locker room full of kids. Giannis brings an intensity and maturity that the whole team will follow and develop. Wemby himself has let us know that players on our team don’t have the correct mindset. And it could mean a title. I’d say that we would have a damn good shot at winning a title in the next three years even with a flawed team. To me, Giannis being a Robinson to Wemby is very much needed and it puts the whole damn organization on notice. Bc Wemby is too polite to do that shit but Giannis isn’t playing. He is serious and he will demand the organization to be serious for top to bottom.

[LeBowen]

Great post.
Imo, Spurs hoped to get another player after Wemby and got lucky with Castle.
Waited for the right opportunity to get a proven all-star, but then Wemby went down. We would've surely made the play-in if he stayed healthy.


Now where in this thought process does hiring Mitch help this process.

I'll actually blame Pop.
If you look at other young teams with in house coaches, they all took over when those teams were at the bottom.
Mitch should've taken over when we blew it up, before we even got Wemby, but the old man had other plans.
Instead he'll be under way more pressure than any of those other coaches because he'll have to make the playoffs right away.
This season was a good experience for him, though.

As for the development staff and assistants, I agree.


Now what does adding Giannis to the team mean for the Spurs? It means getting an actual MVP level player. It means that our 21 year old franchise player who Chinook has correctly identified as not ready yet to carry a franchise doesn’t have to immediately carry a franchise. It means you can’t double team Wemby. It means that Wemby gets to see the best conditioned player in the world train and practice and for a player that struggles with conditioning that might be helpful. It also shortens the time needed to identify whether or not Mitch is the guy going forward. It also brings a seriousness to the team that I believe the whole culture needs. There’s too much playing in the locker room full of kids. Giannis brings an intensity and maturity that the whole team will follow and develop. Wemby himself has let us know that players on our team don’t have the correct mindset. And it could mean a title. I’d say that we would have a damn good shot at winning a title in the next three years even with a flawed team. To me, Giannis being a Robinson to Wemby is very much needed and it puts the whole damn organization on notice. Bc Wemby is too polite to do that shit but Giannis isn’t playing. He is serious and he will demand the organization to be serious for top to bottom.

The problem with all of this is that Giannis isn't Robinson.
He's not a past his prime superstar who's content with competing, if he gets traded it'll be because he wants to win again.
What happens if we get Giannis, fail at building a roster around him and Wemby, Mitch proves to be inadequate? How's family atmosphere franchise going to deal with that? Or is that exactly what we need? Maybe it is, but then it would be over, we'd have nothing to surround Wemby and Giannis with, the environment would become toxic and we'd become the Rockets, tbh.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Giannis, his contract and his age, are not worth it.

PASS!

[ducks]

You are gambling with wemby health
He only lost a half season to a health scare
You make a call and unless it guts the team you do the trade.

Spurs better try to win now imo prove to the world pop does not have to coach for spurs to win a title imo !

You are also gambling if you do get a supper star the picks and the kids will improve to win titles later.
Spurs have maybe 3 players that are untouchable imo
Spur fans always think their players are better than they are imo !

[ducks]

Giannis, his contract and his age, are not worth it.

PASS!

Played more games imo then Wemby last year

[ducks]

Great post.
Imo, Spurs hoped to get another player after Wemby and got lucky with Castle.
Waited for the right opportunity to get a proven all-star, but then Wemby went down. We would've surely made the play-in if he stayed healthy.



I'll actually blame Pop.
If you look at other young teams with in house coaches, they all took over when those teams were at the bottom.
Mitch should've taken over when we blew it up, before we even got Wemby, but the old man had other plans.
Instead he'll be under way more pressure than any of those other coaches because he'll have to make the playoffs right away.
This season was a good experience for him, though.

As for the development staff and assistants, I agree.



The problem with all of this is that Giannis isn't Robinson.
He's not a past his prime superstar who's content with competing, if he gets traded it'll be because he wants to win again.
What happens if we get Giannis, fail at building a roster around him and Wemby, Mitch proves to be inadequate? How's family atmosphere franchise going to deal with that? Or is that exactly what we need? Maybe it is, but then it would be over, we'd have nothing to surround Wemby and Giannis with, the environment would become toxic and we'd become the Rockets, tbh.
What happens if Harper gets picked and he sucks and Wemby mad and demands out


If he does not work out you trade h

[Trill Clinton]

What happens if Harper gets picked and he sucks and Wemby mad and demands out


If he does not work out you trade h


Kawhi really did a number on Spurs fans.

[scott]

Kawhi really did a number on Spurs fans.

I know we all harbor feelings about Kawhi... but it's really not fair to blame him for ducks... he's always been this way.

[scottspurs]

Team Draft Harper here! The Bucks would do the trade that is best for them moving forward so you would be competing with OKC, Houston, Miami (Pat Riley knows how to get a deal done), maybe even the Mavericks if Nico is still off his rocker. Basically you would have to give up alot to compete with other offers. So at bare minimum I think a Giannis trade looks like this:

Devin Vassell or Jeremy Sochan
Keldon Johnson or Harrison Barnes
Blake Wesley
Malaki Branham

6 1st rounds picks of Bucks choosing
5 pick swaps
so:

#2 pick this year
#14 pick this year
2027 hawks 1st
2029 Spurs 1st
2031 spurs 1st
2033 spurs 1st

2026 hawks pick swap
2028 Celtics pick swap
2030 mavericks pick swap
2030 Timberwolves pick swap
2031 kings pick swap

so spurs roster would be

Fox - CP3 - Vet min
Castle - vet min - vet min
Sochan - Champagnie - Harrison Ingram
Giannis - Riley Minix - vet min
Wemby - 2nd Rnd pick - Bassey

You are not passing up OKC or Houston in the west year one of Giannis/Wemby with this roster. So year 2 maybe you find the shooters and vets to finally compete. Will still be in a dogfight with OKC and Houston.

People forget Wemby will only turn 22 next year and won’t reach his prime for another 3-4 seasons. The exact time Giannis will be leaving his prime. Historically players primes in the NBA are from age 28-32. For truly great players age 26-34. For an Alien like Wemby maybe he enters his prime at age 24-25.

In my opinion your window would be 2 years from now and be about 3 seasons. So let’s say best case scenario you 3-peat. Awesome, worth it. We would all feel like it was worth it. But then what. It would be similar to like Shaq leaving Kobe. It would take the Spurs 4-5 years to rebuild with the lack of assets and it would have to be done via free agency lol. The Spurs building through free agency. Lmao! Free agency. Let’s say they some how pull that off haha. You maybe win 1-3 more championships. Awesome, totally worth it. Wemby Era results in 4-6 championships. I think we all agree that would be worth it but…

The alternative timeline:

Draft Harper, Draft Pick 14

Not winning a championship the next 2 years as Harper and Castle Develop. Got it

Spurs make the right moves to build a roster and 3 years down the line Wemby hits his prime. Best player in the NBA. Fox would only be 30. Harper realizes his potential and becomes James Harden. Stephon Castle reaches his potential and becomes Jimmy Butler. Not quite in their primed yet but really good.

Fox - Shooter - Shooter
Harper (young Harden) - 3/D - 3/D
Castle (young Butler) - 3/d - 3/D
3/D - 3/D - 3/D
Wemby - Big Body rebounder - Big body rebounder

You 3-peat with Fox. It becomes to expensive. So you let him walk as he hits free agency at age 32. Right when Harper/Castle extension kick in and you have to pay Wemby a billion. You win 2-3 more championships. Then you have some choices to make with current CBA. Probably have to trade Castle or Harper. Oh no only 5-6 championships dammit. lol. But wait the 2031 Kings win the draft lottery!!! The Spurs with the lottery luck again as they swap picks with them.

Current 7th grader - Harper - Wemby go through a tough period but eventually pull out two more titles as 7th grader hits his prime. 7-8 championships. 13 total championships. Wemby/Harper retire. Time for the team to be led by 7th grader

I know I’m telling stories here and using my crazy imagination but this is what great organizations do. It’s really silly to try to predict the future but Forward thinking is a great approach. How big do you want the window to be? Do you want it to be off and on? Or sustained success?

Also look at the worse case scenarios. An aging Giannis gets injured. Lots of wear and tear carrying the bucks for the last decade. Achilles and ACL injuries are becoming more and more common. Modern athletes don’t rest properly leading to higher frequency for injuries. Then you are in the exact same situation as the Bucks. Possibly with no championships to show for it. Forced to trade a generational talent in Wemby to start over. An even worse case scenario would be Wemby not having a healthy career. Going more of the Porzingis route being on/off again. Wouldn’t you want two potential future stars in Harper and Castle for cover for that?

Team Draft and Develop All Aboard

[Spurs9]

Not sure if its already posted but pretty cool workout with Giannis and Harper/Ace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXbGfHBRx_8

[HankChinaski]

6 1st and 5 pick swaps that is crazy.

Devin, Barnes + #2 in this year's draft and Three additional future 1sts.
I think realistically that works and should get you close to within salary for the trade.

I don't like it personally. It's a big gamble. Giannis is at his peak but the salary implications and what you have to trade and pay to bring in vet role players to win now.

I don't think it is worth it in the long run, short term you field a playoff ready team that strives to compete for a championship but that window is short

It's a tough call for the front office with a young head coach and this roster.

[daslicer]

My random thoughts

Here’s the thing. It’s a gamble either way. You’re gambling that Harper is going to ascend into stardom and help Wemby ring or you’re gambling that Giannis will ring here within 3 years. Can a Fox, Wemby, Giannis combo win the west next year if all healthy? I think they could. I think they’d match up with anybody in the West very well. And theirs nobody next year in the East that scares me.

Second question: Is there a way to get Giannis with just Castle or just Harper? Idk we’d have to call Mil and see that their asking price for him is. But if there is a way to do it then I think you’re doing a disservice not bringing Giannis in. Also why do people assume that Giannis is going to fall off the map at 34? He’s in the best shape I’ve ever seen a human being. He works incredibly hard at his craft. He takes the game about as serious as I’ve seen a player and he always gives 100% on the court when he plays. Oh and he’s still ridiculously tall and strong. Those types of players don’t fall off the map. I actually feel confident in saying that in the next 8 seasons, Giannis will be better than Castle in all 8 and better than Harper in 6.

Can Fox, Castle, and Harper all coincide with each other harmoniously while playing high level basketball? I would say that they could. Wemby is obviously our 1st option. Fox our second. Then Castle and Harper are going to battle each other for the 3rd option. But that 4th option is only going to get like 10 shots a game. Is that enough for these young ball dominant guards?

What if both Harper and Castle don’t play point guard for their time playing here? Like what if Castle never develops into a PG and same with Harper? What do we do then? Do we extend Fox after his contract runs out? Do we draft a point guard? What if both of these players never really develop a consistent jumper? Now how do we play them together? There’s just as many questions for me with keeping them all as there is with trading them.

Either option is a gamble but to say that one side is 100% a good and the other 100% doomsday is just disingenuous

That's exactly how I feel that either scenario is not that cut and dry. It can go either way which is why I'm glad I'm not in the hot seat to make that decision. It's a tough decision to make on whether to keep the pick or trade it for Giannis.

[cd98]

Giannis is a great player, but the last several all-in buys that I can remember have not worked out well. The Suns all-in was a catastrophic failure and the Nets all-in wasn't far behind. Same could be said of Clippers trade considering they single-handed gave the Thunder and incredible future and the George trade never got them past the second round and the Thunder are primed to win the title if they win one more game against the Nuggets. Hell, the Bucks went all-in on Lillard and see what happened. We'll see about the Timberwolves all-in moves.

If Giannis tears an achilles, the Spurs are screwed for years having given up all their assets and you know Wemby leaves after that. Even if Harper turns out to suck, the Spurs can still have other avenues to compete, but if they trade for Giannis and he gets injured, they are toast.

[exstatic]

If we can get Giannis for the #2 pick and change then of course you go for it. Harper ain't going to be a Giannis

No, he won’t be Giannis, but he could well be a baggage free version of Harden.

You can almost always count on Legacy draftees hitting a higher outcome than draftees without a father who played in the league.

[exstatic]

Kawhi really did a number on Spurs fans.

Actually, Drumpf did a number on ducks.

[Guru of Nothing]

This is really simple, y'all. Just look at the roster construction of Denver and OKC. Which do you think is superior? I'm firmly aboard Team Harper.

[KobesAchilles]

This is really simple, y'all. Just look at the roster construction of Denver and OKC. Which do you think is superior? I'm firmly aboard Team Harper.
Neither has 2 of the top 5 players in the nba on the same team…

[LeBowen]

Neither has 2 of the top 5 players in the nba on the same team…

Counterpoint: both play 3 guard lineups in the playoffs and OKC has 0 rotation players in 6'7-6'11 range. 8 guards and 2 bigs.

Also:
https://i.imgur.com/tQf2gsc.png

[Atl Spur]

No, he won’t be Giannis, but he could well be a baggage free version of Harden.

You can almost always count on Legacy draftees hitting a higher outcome than draftees without a father who played in the league.

Hmmmmm….. Giannis wasn’t supposed to be giannis in nba evaluators minds! You can’t convince me on what he won’t be but you can make a case for who/what he currently is.

[Atl Spur]

Counterpoint: both play 3 guard lineups in the playoffs and OKC has 0 rotation players in 6'7-6'11 range. 8 guards and 2 bigs.

Also:
https://i.imgur.com/tQf2gsc.png

Damn I forgot about that lineup of ours! Good find….. history/information is a mf’er!!!! None of them were considered shooters either!

[daslicer]

Giannis is a great player, but the last several all-in buys that I can remember have not worked out well. The Suns all-in was a catastrophic failure and the Nets all-in wasn't far behind. Same could be said of Clippers trade considering they single-handed gave the Thunder and incredible future and the George trade never got them past the second round and the Thunder are primed to win the title if they win one more game against the Nuggets. Hell, the Bucks went all-in on Lillard and see what happened. We'll see about the Timberwolves all-in moves.

If Giannis tears an achilles, the Spurs are screwed for years having given up all their assets and you know Wemby leaves after that. Even if Harper turns out to suck, the Spurs can still have other avenues to compete, but if they trade for Giannis and he gets injured, they are toast.

That is my concern that Giannis is due to for an ACL tear or Achilles tear due to his style of play and his age. If he was 27 instead of 30 going on to 31 I would do this trade in a heartbeat.

[cd98]

The problem is that this is not just Harper v. Giannis. This is Harper and all of our draft capital for the next five years v. Giannis. The Bucks want a king's ransom and will probably get it. If it was just a straight up No. 2 pick v. Giannis, the argument for Giannis would be much stronger. But trading for Giannis is a franchise bet that if the Spurs lose, they will also lose Wemby and will be back to a rebuild.

Cautionary Tales: Suns, Nets, Bucks (they are forced to trade Giannis b/c of Lillard injury).

Also, remember that Lakers got Luka on a discount. They don't have to pay him the supermax. The Spurs would be on the hook for the Giannis supermax if they trade for him. A supermaxed player over 30? Not too excited about that.

[Dex]

Damn I forgot about that lineup of ours! Good find….. history/information is a mf’er!!!! None of them were considered shooters either!

Worth noting the Spurs didn't exactly excel with that lineup. There is a reason we let Georgie go for the rights to Kawhi.

[cd98]

Harper, Castle, and Fox are not quite comparable to the three guard rotation on the Thunder since the Thunder have better shooters on that team. But those three are quite the playmakers and Fox is not a terrible shooter and if Harper and Castle can develop three point accuracy, then our three guard lineup would be better than OKC's. Also, we can get away with a 3 guard lineup because Castle and Harper are tall guards with length and strength. No question Castle can guard most 3s. And if Sochan ever develops a three, he can guard the best player on any team except the elite centers.

[LeBowen]

Harper, Castle, and Fox are not quite comparable to the three guard rotation on the Thunder since the Thunder have better shooters on that team.

SGA: 24% 3PT in these playoffs, 37% regular season.
Williams: 26%, 36%.
Dort: 28%, 41%.
Caruso: 42%, 35%.
Chet: 35%, 38%.
Harteinstein: non-shooter.

Obviously they're shooting below their regular season level, but they're on the verge of WCF even with poor shooting.
Those are their 6 main players.
Wallace, Wiggins and Joe are shooting great, 7th-9th mpg.

[SpursGenius]

Most players slowly improve 3 point percentages over 3-5 year stretch until in their prime around 24. Won’t be surprised to see Castle and Harper around 35-38 percentage or higher in 5 years. Fox hasn’t improved as much as he needed to still around 33-34. Difference is dude makes the clutch threes. Dude has to be 40 plus percentage in crunch time.

[KobesAchilles]

Counterpoint: both play 3 guard lineups in the playoffs and OKC has 0 rotation players in 6'7-6'11 range. 8 guards and 2 bigs.

Also:
https://i.imgur.com/tQf2gsc.png
I mean I’m not too concerned with OKC tbh. Everyone is saying how great their roster is and it might be the best roster in the league but it isn’t some unbeatable roster. I think Boston would’ve beaten them with a healthy Tatum. I think if MPJ could just make literally any shot then Denver would’ve beaten beat them and it’s going to be interesting to see if they can beat Minn.

I’m not against a 3 guard line up, however finding a 3 guard line up that has won a championship is very hard to do. I can’t really think of a team that did so.

[Atl Spur]

I mean I’m not too concerned with OKC tbh. Everyone is saying how great their roster is and it might be the best roster in the league but it isn’t some unbeatable roster. I think Boston would’ve beaten them with a healthy Tatum. I think if MPJ could just make literally any shot then Denver would’ve beaten beat them and it’s going to be interesting to see if they can beat Minn.

I’m not against a 3 guard line up, however finding a 3 guard line up that has won a championship is very hard to do. I can’t really think of a team that did so.

Boston runs a 3 guard roster; white, brown, Holliday

[KobesAchilles]

Boston runs a 3 guard roster; white, brown, Holliday
I’m not sure why I thought Al was their starter last year. I stand corrected. One team in NBA history

[scott]

I've noticed a strong overlapping in the Venn Diagram of folks who want Yanni and those who think Sochan is a high end core piece.

I really like Giannis, one of my favorite non-Spurs, but I'll pass on the enormous price tag to acquire him.

TEAM HARPER

[Trueblood]

The problem is that this is not just Harper v. Giannis. This is Harper and all of our draft capital for the next five years v. Giannis. The Bucks want a king's ransom and will probably get it. If it was just a straight up No. 2 pick v. Giannis, the argument for Giannis would be much stronger. But trading for Giannis is a franchise bet that if the Spurs lose, they will also lose Wemby and will be back to a rebuild.

Cautionary Tales: Suns, Nets, Bucks (they are forced to trade Giannis b/c of Lillard injury).

Also, remember that Lakers got Luka on a discount. They don't have to pay him the supermax. The Spurs would be on the hook for the Giannis supermax if they trade for him. A supermaxed player over 30? Not too excited about that.

This! Let Houston sell their farm for the next three years. With Irving's age and AD's health Dallas is soon going to be Cooper Flagg and the scrubs, Houston will have mortgaged their future for a few years of Giannis (who will probably get injured), we know what a joke the Pelicans are, and the Grizzles are one more finger gun away from irrelevancy. If we play our cards right we can run our division for the next decade plus.

[thiste]

Damn I forgot about that lineup of ours! Good find….. history/information is a mf’er!!!! None of them were considered shooters either!

Totally different era tho

[pookenstein]

I've thought long and hard if I would trade for Giannis and I think I'd do it, if it doesn't cost us Castle. I recognize that Harper has the potential to surpass Stephon, maybe it's even (very) like he will, but in my mind a core of Wemby, Giannis, Fox, Castle could be enough to win a title relatively early in Wemby's career, which might be crucial in a later decision if or if not Vic will sign an extension with the Spurs. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but this is where I'm at.

[LeBowen]

I'm probably 75-25% in favor of picking and keeping Harper.
I'd like some of the Giannis fans to make an in-depth post about how would they build the roster around him and Wemby.

My best offer would be:
Castle or Harper, not both. Including both would be too crippling for our roster.
Devin
Keldon
Jeremy
'25 #14
'27 ATL
'29 SAS
And a bunch of SRPs because Bucks have just 2 between now and 2032.

Post-trade rotation:
Fox/?
Castle/?
Barnes/Champagnie
Giannis/?
Wemby/?

Around $8M cap space left and MLE available.
Wesley, Branham still on the roster, $9.6M combined.

Leftover FRPs:
'26 SAS/ATL
'28 SAS/BOS
'30 SAS/DAL/MIN
'31 SAS/SAC
With '31 being the only tradeable FRP outright since '25, '27, '29 would be gone.

With backup PG, backup C and one more 3-D perimeter player needed.

[ginobilized]

I sincerely hope that we do not mortgage our future picks and flexibility for the Greek Freak. Sure, he's a tremendous talent, etc.
There's no scenario that I can imagine that the Spurs want to hand the keys to someone other than Wemby. Giannis would make things awkward in that regard.
Also, that praying post-game crap drives me nuts. Giannis seems like a culture unto himself. Spurs have the most curated culture in the league. I just don't see it.

[Seventyniner]

What about possibly trading Fox/Castle/Keldon (plus a couple picks, say 2025 #14 + SA28 w/BOS swap) to the Bucks for Giannis? Since the Bucks don't control their own draft picks for the next 7 years they wouldn't be interested in tearing everything down. This would allow the Spurs to field a Harper/Vassell/Barnes/Giannis/Wemby lineup, which should have sufficient shooting and allows Harper to play to his strengths.

I would be shocked if this actually happened because it would totally be against the Spurs MO, giving up on Fox and Castle so soon after acquiring them, but when a top 3 player becomes available strange things can happen. It's at least an interesting idea.

[mo7888]

I'm probably 75-25% in favor of picking and keeping Harper.
I'd like some of the Giannis fans to make an in-depth post about how would they build the roster around him and Wemby.

My best offer would be:
Castle or Harper, not both. Including both would be too crippling for our roster.
Devin
Keldon
Jeremy
'25 #14
'27 ATL
'29 SAS
And a bunch of SRPs because Bucks have just 2 between now and 2032.

Post-trade rotation:
Fox/?
Castle/?
Barnes/Champagnie
Giannis/?
Wemby/?

Around $8M cap space left and MLE available.
Wesley, Branham still on the roster, $9.6M combined.

Leftover FRPs:
'26 SAS/ATL
'28 SAS/BOS
'30 SAS/DAL/MIN
'31 SAS/SAC
With '31 being the only tradeable FRP outright since '25, '27, '29 would be gone.

With backup PG, backup C and one more 3-D perimeter player needed.

I know how we view Devin/Keldon here, but most of the league would look at that as a strong offer for Giannis. I also probably prefer to stand pat, but this trade puts us in champion competing mode next year.

[LeBowen]

What about possibly trading Fox/Castle/Keldon (plus a couple picks, say 2025 #14 + SA28 w/BOS swap) to the Bucks for Giannis? Since the Bucks don't control their own draft picks for the next 7 years they wouldn't be interested in tearing everything down. This would allow the Spurs to field a Harper/Vassell/Barnes/Giannis/Wemby lineup, which should have sufficient shooting and allows Harper to play to his strengths.

I would be shocked if this actually happened because it would totally be against the Spurs MO, giving up on Fox and Castle so soon after acquiring them, but when a top 3 player becomes available strange things can happen. It's at least an interesting idea.

Fox would be worthless in that trade since he'll be on an expiring contract and wouldn't extend.
The only way Fox gets traded is if he ends up on a legit contender, which won't happen.

[RC_Drunkford]

the problem with a Giannis trade is that our roster would be 6 players deep. The rest we add is a bunch of scrubs. We'd have that for 2 seasons and then by 2027 we'd be in cap hell with 3 max contracts on the books and Castle due for extension the season after. At that point we'd then have to trade Fox. Furthermore we would not have any picks to trade until 2030. So yeah, I'm not doing that. Too big of a chance to shoot yourself in the foot and end up in the same situation the Bucks are in right now.

I'd much rather add Harper, have him, Fox, Castle and Wemby on the team. Am able to add high level forwards around them and can trade Fox once Harper is due for an extension for new role players while I still have all my picks with swaps attached. If one of them gets you another prospect who can develop into an All-Star you have a decade long title window.

Playing the long game should get us a lot more chips. Adding Giannis would give us 2 back to back championships max, if we even get there and then we'd flame out and would look like the Lakers right now.

[LeBowen]

The only win now offseason that would be feasible without ruining our future is getting Murphy+Herb from the Pelicans.

#2, #14, 3 NOP SRPs returned, Devin, Jeremy, Branham for #7, Trey Murphy III, Herb Jones
#7, Keldon, Barnes for John Collins, Walker Kessler
Bring back CP3 on a minimum deal or get another veteran PG.
Bring back Mamu or a similar bench PF on a minimum deal.

Fox/CP3
Castle/Herb
Murphy/Champagnie
Collins/Mamu
Wemby/Kessler

Castle to run the second unit with CP3 as emergency backup.
Wemby/Collins/Kessler 3 man big rotation, any pairing works.
Three wing shooters, one can slide to PF against benches with no size.

Castle would be the second worst shooter after Kessler in that rotation.

[pookenstein]

the problem with a Giannis trade is that our roster would be 6 players deep. The rest we add is a bunch of scrubs. We'd have that for 2 seasons and then by 2027 we'd be in cap hell with 3 max contracts on the books and Castle due for extension the season after. At that point we'd then have to trade Fox. Furthermore we would not have any picks to trade until 2030. So yeah, I'm not doing that. Too big of a chance to shoot yourself in the foot and end up in the same situation the Bucks are in right now.

I'd much rather add Harper, have him, Fox, Castle and Wemby on the team. Am able to add high level forwards around them and can trade Fox once Harper is due for an extension for new role players while I still have all my picks with swaps attached. If one of them gets you another prospect who can develop into an All-Star you have a decade long title window.

Playing the long game should get us a lot more chips. Adding Giannis would give us 2 back to back championships max, if we even get there and then we'd flame out and would look like the Lakers right now.

But don't you think winning one or two chips with Giannis would be very benefcial in securing/keeping Wemby in SA long term? And let's say we get two titles out of a Giannis/Wemby pairing, after Giannis leaves/retires we'd have Wemby who knows how to win. Don't you think (star)players would want to come to the Spurs and chase rings? Also, maybe Wemby might grow in Giannias shadow, by not having to carry the franchise by himself.

[CGD]

Let’s take a different approach to this: what do we think Houston’s best offer is assuming they won’t add Amen.

[scottspurs]

Let’s take a different approach to this: what do we think Houston’s best offer is assuming they won’t add Amen.

The Rockets offer will be Sengun, Jalen Green, Cam Whitmore, Reid Sheppard

5 1st round picks
4/5 pick swaps.

This is why I’m out on any Giannis Trade. Once the bidding begins it’s going to be something unlike we have ever seen. Otherwise the Bucks would just keep him. Now next offseason or the trade deadline? The price goes down. That’s when it could get interesting.

[CGD]

The Rockets offer will be Sengun, Jalen Green, Cam Whitmore, Reid Sheppard

5 1st round picks
4/5 pick swaps.

This is why I’m out on any Giannis Trade. Once the bidding begins it’s going to be something unlike we have ever seen. Otherwise the Bucks would just keep him. Now next offseason or the trade deadline? The price goes down. That’s when it could get interesting.

Hmm, if im Milwaukee I’m not sure I really want Green. Im also not sure how they view Sengun tbh — is he really a foundational piece? And then, how do they make the salaries work without also sending out their only point guard?

Basically, Houston only really has to beat us out. I do think us getting #2 forces a conundrum for them re Amen. If he’s on the table after all, I also want nothing of that trade war.

[RC_Drunkford]

But don't you think winning one or two chips with Giannis would be very benefcial in securing/keeping Wemby in SA long term? And let's say we get two titles out of a Giannis/Wemby pairing, after Giannis leaves/retires we'd have Wemby who knows how to win. Don't you think (star)players would want to come to the Spurs and chase rings? Also, maybe Wemby might grow in Giannias shadow, by not having to carry the franchise by himself.

or Wemby is in the same spot Giannis is right now and knows he can't win with a Spurs team that has no cap space and next to no draft picks to trade?

Star players can want to come here, but if we don't have draft picks nor contracts to match salaries, nobody will come to the Spurs, because we won't be able to trade for them. And if we do, we'd be in the same spot we were when we traded for Giannis, if not worse. Where we have Wemby and 1 All-Star with a bunch of scrubs on minimum deals.

[scott]

I'm probably 75-25% in favor of picking and keeping Harper.
I'd like some of the Giannis fans to make an in-depth post about how would they build the roster around him and Wemby.

My best offer would be:
Castle or Harper, not both. Including both would be too crippling for our roster.
Devin
Keldon
Jeremy
'25 #14
'27 ATL
'29 SAS
And a bunch of SRPs because Bucks have just 2 between now and 2032.

Post-trade rotation:
Fox/?
Castle/?
Barnes/Champagnie
Giannis/?
Wemby/?

Around $8M cap space left and MLE available.
Wesley, Branham still on the roster, $9.6M combined.

Leftover FRPs:
'26 SAS/ATL
'28 SAS/BOS
'30 SAS/DAL/MIN
'31 SAS/SAC
With '31 being the only tradeable FRP outright since '25, '27, '29 would be gone.

With backup PG, backup C and one more 3-D perimeter player needed.

I like how you called this out.

The Vecenie article laying out how a Fox/Wemby/Giannis would look makes a very compelling case... but as you point out here we would have zero depth and a depleted set of assets to which to add depth over time.

I don't like it... we've seen these strong core lineups with no depth really struggle.

[scott]

The only win now offseason that would be feasible without ruining our future is getting Murphy+Herb from the Pelicans.

#2, #14, 3 NOP SRPs returned, Devin, Jeremy, Branham for #7, Trey Murphy III, Herb Jones
#7, Keldon, Barnes for John Collins, Walker Kessler
Bring back CP3 on a minimum deal or get another veteran PG.
Bring back Mamu or a similar bench PF on a minimum deal.

Fox/CP3
Castle/Herb
Murphy/Champagnie
Collins/Mamu
Wemby/Kessler

Castle to run the second unit with CP3 as emergency backup.
Wemby/Collins/Kessler 3 man big rotation, any pairing works.
Three wing shooters, one can slide to PF against benches with no size.

Castle would be the second worst shooter after Kessler in that rotation.

I've thought about this a little more and I don't think you need to be quite as aggressive to get TMIII/Herb and I wouldn't do the Utah trade.

Deal with NOP would have to be dependent on Tre or Kon being there at 7 (so it happens after pick 7, not before the draft).

Spurs send: Harper, Vassell, Keldon
NOP sends: Kon (let's say Kon because Tre seems unlikely), TMIII, Herb

Say the Spurs take Yaxel or Fleming at 14.

Bring back CP3 like you said. Sign Adams or Kornet. Resign Mamu.

Fox/CP3
Castle/Kon
TMIII/Champ
Herb/Barnes/Yaxel
Wemby/Adams/Mamu

It's a smaller lineup than yours with Collins, but TMIII and Herb have the size to play the modern 3/4.

Your lineup and mine are very different but I like them both for different reasons.

[scott]

The Rockets offer will be Sengun, Jalen Green, Cam Whitmore, Reid Sheppard

5 1st round picks
4/5 pick swaps.

This is why I’m out on any Giannis Trade. Once the bidding begins it’s going to be something unlike we have ever seen. Otherwise the Bucks would just keep him. Now next offseason or the trade deadline? The price goes down. That’s when it could get interesting.

The good news, in my opinion, for those of us who don't want to pay a hefty price for Giannis is that someone like HOU can and likely will easily up the price to this level and this isn't the stakes of poker Brian Wright likes to play at and he'll quickly peace out from the negotiations.

This isn't even a criticism, but our FO isn't the one who is going to play this kind of high stakes poker. And I think that conservative approach has largely served them well and will continue to do so.

[Atl Spur]

Let’s not forget we still have the big joker ( Wemby )! If Houston does that, it will be perfect!

[mo7888]

The good news, in my opinion, for those of us who don't want to pay a hefty price for Giannis is that someone like HOU can and likely will easily up the price to this level and this isn't the stakes of poker Brian Wright likes to play at and he'll quickly peace out from the negotiations.

This isn't even a criticism, but our FO isn't the one who is going to play this kind of high stakes poker. And I think that conservative approach has largely served them well and will continue to do so.

Agreed, but our FO should put out a good offer so Milwaukee has leverage to fleece Houston.

[exstatic]

Hmm, if im Milwaukee I’m not sure I really want Green. Im also not sure how they view Sengun tbh — is he really a foundational piece? And then, how do they make the salaries work without also sending out their only point guard?

Basically, Houston only really has to beat us out. I do think us getting #2 forces a conundrum for them re Amen. If he’s on the table after all, I also want nothing of that trade war.

The players are for salary purposes. The picks and swaps are why they make the deal.

[Davidicus]

the problem with a Giannis trade is that our roster would be 6 players deep. The rest we add is a bunch of scrubs. We'd have that for 2 seasons and then by 2027 we'd be in cap hell with 3 max contracts on the books and Castle due for extension the season after. At that point we'd then have to trade Fox. Furthermore we would not have any picks to trade until 2030. So yeah, I'm not doing that. Too big of a chance to shoot yourself in the foot and end up in the same situation the Bucks are in right now.

I'd much rather add Harper, have him, Fox, Castle and Wemby on the team. Am able to add high level forwards around them and can trade Fox once Harper is due for an extension for new role players while I still have all my picks with swaps attached. If one of them gets you another prospect who can develop into an All-Star you have a decade long title window.

Playing the long game should get us a lot more chips. Adding Giannis would give us 2 back to back championships max, if we even get there and then we'd flame out and would look like the Lakers right now.

This. There’s a cost to acquire Giannis, and then there’s a cost to have Giannis on the team. The internet and ESPN are all talking about cost to acquire, but not diving into the cost to keep him on the team. Cap-wise, gameplan wise, and what happens in a few years when he’s past his prime.

Only way I’m pro Giannis is if the market for him bottoms out and no other teams line up for him, and he still wants out of MIL. So the cost to acquire is extremely low. I’m talking we still keep #2 pick and Castle. Which of course isn’t going to happen.

[rankingtear]

I've thought about this a little more and I don't think you need to be quite as aggressive to get TMIII/Herb and I wouldn't do the Utah trade.

Deal with NOP would have to be dependent on Tre or Kon being there at 7 (so it happens after pick 7, not before the draft).

Spurs send: Harper, Vassell, Keldon
NOP sends: Kon (let's say Kon because Tre seems unlikely), TMIII, Herb

Say the Spurs take Yaxel or Fleming at 14.

Bring back CP3 like you said. Sign Adams or Kornet. Resign Mamu.

Fox/CP3
Castle/Kon
TMIII/Champ
Herb/Barnes/Yaxel
Wemby/Adams/Mamu

It's a smaller lineup than yours with Collins, but TMIII and Herb have the size to play the modern 3/4.

Your lineup and mine are very different but I like them both for different reasons.

That is easily the skinniest starting lineup in the league for the last 20 years.

[Pauleta14]

Checking if the hype went down a it, but it's the opposite I see... :lol

Trading for Giannis this summer is STUPID AF

Not only we're not in a win now mode with the pressure and expectations that comes with it, Wemby has to come back from a long hiatus, cp3 will prob retire, we don't have a starting 3 or 4 and Castle will discover the full time PG job in a usually difficult sophomore season and don't forget who's our coach...

Then you have Giannis who's going to be 30 with a game based on his athleticism and not finesse that would help him save his body and last longer, meaning we'd pay an insane price for a very short term production and very high risk of injury.

Oh... also the guy can't shoot so forget the in/out game with Wemby, meaning Victor will become a full time perimeter player smh

nd lmao at those ready to give up Castle in a heart beat...

[spurraider21]

i dont like sending 2 for murphy/herb. if it was 3/4 id be all for that. if we really see harper as a cade-tier prospect it would be really bad to let that go for good not great players.

edit: brainfarted and kind of forgot about geting 7 back as well while keeping 14

thats a tough one tbh, which probably means its fair. Trey just plays the game so well. he's able to put up points in bunches without pounding the air out of the ball like devin. he knows how to play that off-ball demon role while actually having legit forward size/length. vassel is a good sized SG who can masquerade as a 3 but it somewhat miscast. but more importantly, he just doesnt have the same off-ball play.

[scott]

i dont like sending 2 for murphy/herb. if it was 3/4 id be all for that. if we really see harper as a cade-tier prospect it would be really bad to let that go for good not great players.

edit: brainfarted and kind of forgot about geting 7 back as well while keeping 14

thats a tough one tbh, which probably means its fair. Trey just plays the game so well. he's able to put up points in bunches without pounding the air out of the ball like devin. he knows how to play that off-ball demon role while actually having legit forward size/length. vassel is a good sized SG who can masquerade as a 3 but it somewhat miscast. but more importantly, he just doesnt have the same off-ball play.

Yeah, 2 for 7 and Trey/Herb is what makes it a tough call for me... NOP might actually say no anyway... I think it's pretty close value wise but I think I just stick with Harper for the reasons you outlined.

[Chillen]

The Rockets offer will be Sengun, Jalen Green, Cam Whitmore, Reid Sheppard

5 1st round picks
4/5 pick swaps.

This is why I’m out on any Giannis Trade. Once the bidding begins it’s going to be something unlike we have ever seen. Otherwise the Bucks would just keep him. Now next offseason or the trade deadline? The price goes down. That’s when it could get interesting.

If the Rockets are crazy enough to offer that I don't think they will get a better deal than that for Giannis. Than the Bucks can look to move Lillard. Spurs would have to up their offer.

[ismael-robert]

The Spurs already made clear they want to form another dynasty, not win now or just win for a couple years. Can't believe yall have fluffed bigsacks thread for 17pgs n he ain't even here anymore keeping his own dumb thread going

[tbdog]

Durant is still a good option at a cheaper price, and a cleaner fit.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm probably 75-25% in favor of picking and keeping Harper.
I'd like some of the Giannis fans to make an in-depth post about how would they build the roster around him and Wemby.

My best offer would be:
Castle or Harper, not both. Including both would be too crippling for our roster.
Devin
Keldon
Jeremy
'25 #14
'27 ATL
'29 SAS
And a bunch of SRPs because Bucks have just 2 between now and 2032.

Post-trade rotation:
Fox/?
Castle/?
Barnes/Champagnie
Giannis/?
Wemby/?

Around $8M cap space left and MLE available.
Wesley, Branham still on the roster, $9.6M combined.

Leftover FRPs:
'26 SAS/ATL
'28 SAS/BOS
'30 SAS/DAL/MIN
'31 SAS/SAC
With '31 being the only tradeable FRP outright since '25, '27, '29 would be gone.

With backup PG, backup C and one more 3-D perimeter player needed.

I'm going to have a go. Not because I'm all in on Giannis but for exercise's sake. If the Spurs can get Giannis for only one of Harper/Castle + future picks + contracts then you can argue this is the smart way to go, so let's see what they'd have.

So after your proposed trade the Spurs would have 8 players on the books - Wemby, Giannis, Fox, Barnes, Castle, Branham, Wesley, Champ. I'll assume they're going to operate over the cap, they can't use cap space and the MLE, it's either or. So what they'll have are the non-taxpayer MLE ($14.1) and BAE ($5.1), plus vet mins and non-bird rights on Chris Paul.

After this trade the Spurs will be hard capped at the first apron (~$196 mil) and they'll have plenty of room to operate below it. Spurs give NAW the MLE, Brook Lopez gets the BAE and Chris Paul is re-signed using non-bird. Then they'll have to make some smart vet min signings and possibly work on the margins with Wesley's and Branham's contracts.

Fox/Paul(non-bird)
Castle/Burks(vet min)
NAW(MLE)/Champ
Giannis/Barnes
Wemby/Lopez(BAE)

Not great, not terrible.

This team would be below the luxury tax line as well, so they'll have some flexibility left. Shooting will be a big issue, to be sure.

I'm on the fence on going all in vs building organically around Wemby, Castle and Harper. I certainly wouldn't do #2 and Castle for Giannis, unless they have another major move with future draft picks, but at the end of the day the NBA is a superstar's league and 3 good players don't equal a star, so I can be convinced either way. Just want this team to be good and I fully expect that, with the way the CBA is, roster construction will be different compared to the past, contending windows will be shorter and there'll be more player movement. I'd expect 3 separate 3 year windows in Wemby's time vs one 10 year window, so the timeline talk is sort of useless. However, this approach means they can't exhaust all of their future picks at a time and be left with nothing to open championship windows in the future. Tough job, the GM one.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1923938645712699539

[mystargtr34]

Giannis is asking for a trade imo.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sam Amick: You know what I mean? Like, they want every scenario to gut the other team. And Jon Horst is going to go for blood here, I’m telling you. He just got a new extension. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1hd7lahPRA) He has the organization’s backing. Jon is not going to just try to be on good terms with Giannis—he’s trying to do right by the Bucks. And that means that if every scenario in play leaves the other team so gutted that Giannis might not actually be in that much better of a situation, then maybe that’s where he looks at the room and says, “All right, let me stay put.”

[dbestpro]

Castle should be non touchable. Trading for Giannis looks good for ESPN but not so good for the Spurs future. Thankfully, that is not how the Spurs do things.

[CGD]

Giannis…. Welcome to the Brooklyn Nets!

I’m not desperate to engage right out the gate if I’m the Spurs. It’s not ripe yet. Let the player-team drama sour, and wait to be approached.

Dylan Harper will still be Dylan Harper, while whatever the Nets and Rockets choose at their natural picks wont have anywhere near the appeal.

[Guru of Nothing]

I'm 100% aboard Keep Dylan, but for those entertaining a Giannis deal, has there even been any discussion what Harper is worth in terms of draft capital? In a world where the Bucks might expect four 1st's for Giannis, I think Harper is worth three, minimum. Hard pass at this point on trading.

[mo7888]

I'm 100% aboard Keep Dylan, but for those entertaining a Giannis deal, has there even been any discussion what Harper is worth in terms of draft capital? In a world where the Bucks might expect four 1st's for Giannis, I think Harper is worth three, minimum. Hard pass at this point on trading.

It really depends on what kind of firsts were talking about. Firsts from good teams or bad teams historically?

[John B]

It’s not the “Spurs way” to make cataclysmic changes. And that’s what trading for Giannis would be without even giving the 3-guard offense a chance. IF ever the Spurs decide to make changes, it would be by trade deadline. But even then, I expect minor tweakings, bringing in Vets off waivers, etc. People need to know what to expect by now, it’s the “Spurs way.”

[Guru of Nothing]

It really depends on what kind of firsts were talking about. Firsts from good teams or bad teams historically?

I think Harper is worth three solid firsts, minimum. As a for instance, I would not trade Harper for three 6th overalls (the 666 Solution) in this year's draft; and as Washington and Utah will attest, it's unwise to expect better results with any given first round pick. If there's a way for Milwaukee to get Harper, it will begin with their assumption that Harper is the foundation for their path forward, and they will overpay. ...says me, guy who knows nothing.

[mo7888]

I think Harper is worth three solid firsts. As a for instance, I would not trade Harper for three 6th overalls (the 666 Solution) in this year's draft; and as Washington and Utah will attest, it's unwise to expect better results with any given first round pick. If there's a way for Milwaukee to get Harper, it will begin with their assumption that Harper is the foundation for their path forward, and they will overpay. ...says me, guy who knows nothing.

I mean, I see the argument for moving Harper for Giannis if we only had to add salary + 1 other first, but I also see the argument for simply standing pat (which is a more likely outcome too). The only way I'd trade Harper outside of a Giannis/ Joker/Luka type deal is trading up for Flagg (which Dallas won't do) or trading back a few picks if the FO genuinely doesn't believe in Harper for some reason.

[Guru of Nothing]

To be sure, I'm 100% aboard keeping Harper. The future is so bright, I'm gonna go buy some shades. Just hate seeing the internet GMs that think we should throw everythig at Giannis. A big NOPE here.

[John B]

If we’re the Fakers, yes they would sell the farm for a ready-made trophy and worry about next year when it comes. But the Spurs are not the Fakers. They like to grow organically without skipping steps. Keep pounding the rock!

[DAF86]

Vassel and Keldon for Giannis straight up works. Just saying. :wakeup

[OldMan88]

Well, ok….

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.fineartamerica.com%2Fimage s%2Fartworkimages%2Fmediumlarge%2F2%2Fabandoned-farms-during-the-dust-bowl-bettmann.jpg&f=1&ipt=7959f4b9869aba4097be10d2cb83b5e86fd4014c24ed39 84eef260df8b75ef2b

[bigzak25]

Vassel and Keldon for Giannis straight up works. Just saying. :wakeup

Sounds good to me...

[bigzak25]

https://airalamo.com/bucks-asking-price-should-have-spurs-prepared-challenging-path-giannis





Harper is also off the table now as he'd be a valuable 6th man...

[John B]

The only player that I would give up #2 (Harper) if Spurs get Flagg in return. Mavs could get Giannis and Harper for their win-now, Spurs gets Flagg, Bucks gets Vassell, maybe Lively and multiple FRP’s.

[rankingtear]

Would FO pass up a Fox-Castle-Cam-Giannis-Wemby lineup for Scoot 2.0.

[CGD]

Supposedly mutual interest between Raptors and Giannis.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/doug-smiths-sports-blog/raptors-mailbag-shai-gilgeous-alexander-vs-steve-nash-and-the-case-to-trade-for-giannis/article_9d14661b-c351-443e-ad2e-c8e22723ecea.html

[DAF86]

Would FO pass up a Fox-Castle-Cam-Giannis-Wemby lineup for Scoot 2.0.

If you get into the whole Giannis thing, might as well go all in and get KD too.

Fox, Castle, Durant, Giannis, Wemby.

Never going to happen, but do yall think that lineup goes all the way? Probably not, imho. The length of that lineup would be insane, though.

[SpursGenius]

The only player that I would give up #2 (Harper) if Spurs get Flagg in return. Mavs could get Giannis and Harper for their win-now, Spurs gets Flagg, Bucks gets Vassell, maybe Lively and multiple FRP’s.
you are dumb as a rock if you think Spurs and Bucks would give Mavs both Harper and Giannis for Flagg lol.

[SpursGenius]

The Spurs already made clear they want to form another dynasty, not win now or just win for a couple years. Can't believe yall have fluffed bigsacks thread for 17pgs n he ain't even here anymore keeping his own dumb thread going
this

[T Park]

the new CBA prevents dynasties from ever happening again. so that "want to build a dynasty" nonsense, needs to die.

[tbdog]

Realistically, can the spurs get Giannis and not include Harper?

[rascal]

Realistically, can the spurs get Giannis and not include Harper?

Only with Wemby

[mo7888]

Realistically, can the spurs get Giannis and not include Harper?

I think they can as long as they include Castle.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/GeryWoelfel/status/1931021319308517715

[Ice009]

Darn, Kidd should really consider going over to the Knicks. The Mavericks screwed him over by trading Luka (I doubt Kidd gave his permission for them to do it), so he should consider taking that Knicks job. If the Knicks can somehow get Giannis (do the Knicks even have the assets needed?), he should just bolt immediately. Dallas never showed him any loyalty if they didn't even ask him about trading Luka. If Kidd was in on it, though, disregard what I said.

[tonight...you]

Darn, Kidd should really consider going over to the Knicks. The Mavericks screwed him over by trading Luka (I doubt Kidd gave his permission for them to do it), so he should consider taking that Knicks job. If the Knicks can somehow get Giannis (do the Knicks even have the assets needed?), he should just bolt immediately. Dallas never showed him any loyalty if they didn't even ask him about trading Luka. If Kidd was in on it, though, disregard what I said.
I think Kidd said afterwards he had no idea of the trade till after it happened.

[Ice009]

I think Kidd said afterwards he had no idea of the trade till after it happened.

That's what I remember him saying. Not sure how true it is, but if it is then I feel he can leave without any backlash. Question is, does he want the Knicks job if they can't get Giannis?

[Kevin]

Still think he ends up in Houston. Since the Bucks don't control a lot of their picks they need a fast track rebuild so a Sengun package makes sense since he's only 23 next season instead say 30 like KAT.

Sengun, Whitmore, the 10 and and a lightly protected future first should get it done.

Sengun has equal value of three unprotected firsts given his age (23 next season), five year contract and production.

As we saw from the Spurs/T-Wolves deal last draft the 10 in this years draft has equal value of one unprotected first.

Whitmore's been very promising in limited minutes. I'll give him the value of a top 10 protected first plus the future first will be top 5 protected in 2031.

Bucks add Sengun, Whitmore plus whoever they take at 10. Fast track rebuild.

[rjv]

^ whitmore is trash.

[OldMan88]

Oh Hell No!

[mo7888]

Still think he ends up in Houston. Since the Bucks don't control a lot of their picks they need a fast track rebuild so a Sengun package makes sense since he's only 23 next season instead say 30 like KAT.

Sengun, Whitmore, the 10 and and a lightly protected future first should get it done.

Sengun has equal value of three unprotected firsts given his age (23 next season), five year contract and production.

As we saw from the Spurs/T-Wolves deal last draft the 10 in this years draft has equal value of one unprotected first.

Whitmore's been very promising in limited minutes. I'll give him the value of a top 10 protected first plus the future first will be top 5 protected in 2031.

Bucks add Sengun, Whitmore plus whoever they take at 10. Fast track rebuild.

Sengun is not worth 3 unprotected picks (points for a nice troll though).. there's no way the Bucks would take that.

[Kevin]

Sengun is not worth 3 unprotected picks (points for a nice troll though).. there's no way the Bucks would take that.

He’ll be 23 next season. He’s a 20/10 big man shooting 50% for his career with very good defensive metrics and a five year contract. Yes he’s worth three firsts all unprotected.

[mo7888]

He’ll be 23 next season. He’s a 20/10 big man shooting 50% for his career with very good defensive metrics and a five year contract. Yes he’s worth three firsts all unprotected.

:lmao

[Seventyniner]

No way Sengun is worth three unprotected firsts. If the Rockets could get that kind of haul for him he would have been out the door already.

The Bucks will have to find some way to get control of their drafts back from the Pelicans or Blazers. Good luck.

[Ignazzz]

He is worth. Easy.

[exstatic]

The two things you really want from a big are floor spacing and rim protection. Sengün provides neither. He’s a pudgy, slightly taller Diaw, a connecting big.

[Kevin]

22 year old Sengun advanced stats.

WS Per 48: 166
Total Win Share: 8.3
BPM: 4.4
VORP: 3.9
ORtg:116
DRtg: 108
On/Off: +23 (not a typo, Rockets were -20 points worse on defense with Sengun off the floor.)

[cd98]

Still think he ends up in Houston. Since the Bucks don't control a lot of their picks they need a fast track rebuild so a Sengun package makes sense since he's only 23 next season instead say 30 like KAT.

Sengun, Whitmore, the 10 and and a lightly protected future first should get it done.

Sengun has equal value of three unprotected firsts given his age (23 next season), five year contract and production.

As we saw from the Spurs/T-Wolves deal last draft the 10 in this years draft has equal value of one unprotected first.

Whitmore's been very promising in limited minutes. I'll give him the value of a top 10 protected first plus the future first will be top 5 protected in 2031.

Bucks add Sengun, Whitmore plus whoever they take at 10. Fast track rebuild.

Bucks would just say no to that offer and keep Giannis. They are going to get at least 2 young players, like Sheppard and Jabari and they are going to get multiple unprotected draft picks. Unlike the Suns and Durant, the Bucks don't absolutely need to trade Giannis. So they will only do it for a haul. Suns are in the second apron and they won't have a prayer of making the playoffs. They have to trade Durant and get under the second apron. They are over a barrel.

[Kevin]

Bucks would just say no to that offer and keep Giannis. They are going to get at least 2 young players, like Sheppard and Jabari and they are going to get multiple unprotected draft picks. Unlike the Suns and Durant, the Bucks don't absolutely need to trade Giannis. So they will only do it for a haul. Suns are in the second apron and they won't have a prayer of making the playoffs. They have to trade Durant and get under the second apron. They are over a barrel.

No way do you favor Sheppard or Smith over Sengun. Sheppard looked over matched in his rookie season and Smith is 43% career shooter entering his fourth year. Sengun is the big ticket thats movable since him and Giannis are both big men.

[cd98]

No way do you favor Sheppard or Smith over Sengun. Sheppard looked over matched in his rookie season and Smith is 43% career shooter entering his fourth year. Sengun is the big ticket thats movable since him and Giannis are both big men.

Well, they would need to send more players than Sheppard and Jabari, if only for salary, but they are getting at least two young players and probably Segun and someone else. But they will get draft picks galore or they'll just keep Giannis. They have no pressure to trade Giannis other than if the wait too long they may not get the haul they want. But it's probably worth it to make the playoffs in the east every year and lose in the first round over taking a bad deal and sucking and still not having your own picks.

[LeBowen]

This is Giannis with 3 years left on his contract we're talking about.
There's absolutely no chance he gets traded without other team's best young player going Bucks way.
Rockets can't get the trade done without Amen and they obviously won't trade him.

[Kevin]

Well, they would need to send more players than Sheppard and Jabari, if only for salary, but they are getting at least two young players and probably Segun and someone else. But they will get draft picks galore or they'll just keep Giannis. They have no pressure to trade Giannis other than if the wait too long they may not get the haul they want. But it's probably worth it to make the playoffs in the east every year and lose in the first round over taking a bad deal and sucking and still not having your own picks.

The Bucks regaining control over their picks is a pipe dream. They need a fast tracked rebuild like Sengun, the 10 and the Bucks pick of Whitemore/Smith/Sheppard.

If Houston gets Giannis Spurs fans want the price to be back breaking for the Rockets either now or later. Problem is that Sengun is very valuable and plays the same position as Giannis which makes him movable.

Like it or not the Bucks and Rockets are a match made asset heaven.

[LeBowen]

Like it or not the Bucks and Rockets are a match made asset heaven.

They're absolutely not, even if Sengun is moved.
As I said, Rockets are not getting Giannis without giving up Amen, but even if we go with that assumption, how would you play two of them together?
Wouldn't work. Even if they tried, they'd need 3 elite shooters around them.
This season Brooks was the best 3pt shooter on the Rockets, enough said.
They'd have to get a point guard who's a great shooter, an an elite stretch big.
And then some more shooters for the bench.

Booker is the player that fits this Rockets roster perfectly, but they're not dumb to give Suns their picks back.

[Kevin]

They're absolutely not, even if Sengun is moved.
As I said, Rockets are not getting Giannis without giving up Amen, but even if we go with that assumption, how would you play two of them together?
Wouldn't work. Even if they tried, they'd need 3 elite shooters around them.
This season Brooks was the best 3pt shooter on the Rockets, enough said.
They'd have to get a point guard who's a great shooter, an an elite stretch big.
And then some more shooters for the bench.

Booker is the player that fits this Rockets roster perfectly, but they're not dumb to give Suns their picks back.

Again you want the price for Houston to be back breaking now or later but Sengun and the 10 makes a Giannis deal very palatable for Houston.

[LeBowen]

Sengun and the 10 makes a Giannis deal very palatable for Houston.

It absolutely does not, it's Giannis we're talking about.
That deal probably doesn't even get them Booker.

[cd98]

They're absolutely not, even if Sengun is moved.
As I said, Rockets are not getting Giannis without giving up Amen, but even if we go with that assumption, how would you play two of them together?
Wouldn't work. Even if they tried, they'd need 3 elite shooters around them.
This season Brooks was the best 3pt shooter on the Rockets, enough said.
They'd have to get a point guard who's a great shooter, an an elite stretch big.
And then some more shooters for the bench.

Booker is the player that fits this Rockets roster perfectly, but they're not dumb to give Suns their picks back.

No, I disagree. Bucks have Giannis for what 3 years. They don't need to trade him and they can wait until someone comes with a king's ransom offer. No way are they getting less than a superstar haul for their superstar player.

[LeBowen]

No, I disagree. Bucks have Giannis for what 3 years. They don't need to trade him and they can wait until someone comes with a king's ransom offer. No way are they getting less than a superstar haul for their superstar player.

Why would you quote my post and say you disagree when I was the one saying Rockets aren't getting Giannis without Amen going the other way. :lol

[Kevin]

It absolutely does not, it's Giannis we're talking about.
That deal probably doesn't even get them Booker.

Crazy at how much people are under valuing a 22 year old big man who averaged 20/10 on 50% who made big strides on defense over the past two years with five years left on his current deal.

Sengun, 10th pick, Bucks choice of Shep/Whitmore/Smith plus a lightly protected or unprotected first should be very close.


Double posting these stats because 22 year olds with these kinda numbers dont grow on trees.

22 year old Sengun advanced stats.

WS Per 48: 166
Total Win Share: 8.3
BPM: 4.4
VORP: 3.9
ORtg:116
DRtg: 108
On/Off: +23 (not a typo, Rockets were -20 points worse on defense with Sengun off the floor.)

[LeBowen]

Crazy at how much people are under valuing a 22 year old big man who averaged 20/10 on 50% who made big strides on defense over the past two years with five years left on his current deal.

The most important trait for modern bigs is rim protection. Sengun offers none.
He also can't shoot.

Sabonis has been averaging 19/13/6 on great efficency for 6 years now and he's useless in the playoffs.

Giannis is the second best player in the league, Sengun won't ever be even close to him.


10th pick

Nothing special in this draft.


Bucks choice of Shep/Whitmore/Smith

We 're looking at 2 players who can't make the rotation and a 20mpg bench player on a first round exit team as great assets?


plus a lightly protected or unprotected first should be very close

:lmao :lmao

Giannis would be the best player who got traded in 50 years, you're not getting him for an average all-star player package.
It's either Amen or no deal.