Our Glory Days

[duncan2k5]

Tony is impressing me this season, and he is tied with timmy as my favorite player, but who thinks we should go back to our glory days of ball movement and running at every opportunity we have? i remember seeing all the nifty passes from ginobili and horry...and damn near the whole team. now its tony holding the ball more. it does make him better individually, but it bogs down the offense i think.

thats why i dont like players like stephon and steve francis. and i also think thats another reason timmy's offensive production is down (aside from the injury). and i miss the days of a more structured substitution pattern from Pop. nowadays i get baffled at his subs. i think he and avery are the best coaches currently (i know its his second season, but avery is impressing me with his playcalling and leadership as a coach), but he needs better substitutions. and he needs to play brent more.

anyway im just nostalgic. thinking about the days when manu and tony would breakneck down the court...when horry would receive a pass at the top of the key after three nifty passes around the perimeter...when tony would be cutting to the basket and gets a cross court pass from manu, horry, or TD.

OT: I am beginning to not like Finley. he had me going nuts in our first game when he was on fire, but now he sucks. i like what nicky brings to the table, but his floater aint falling, he needs to work o that. and barry needs to play more. he was BIG in last years playoffs

[HB22inSA]

I keep driving this point home, but no one gets it yet.

Spurs need to reload soon, as in getting rid of Duncan and Ginobili while they still have high trade value and getting some more youth in here.

It really sounds like this PF thing could bother Duncan for the rest of his career, and Ginobili is getting hurt all the time, the Spurs need more of a "full-time" employee.

The days of Duncan averaging 22 and 12 are coming to an end. It'll be more like 17 and 10 in a couple of years, a sort of Robinson-like decline, except that Duncan won't have a young prodigy to "teach."


I love the combo of Chris Bosh, Jason Terry and Parker to build another team around.

It sounds ridiculous now, but in a few years, all of you will see why...

[Solid D]

I keep driving this point home, but no one gets it yet.

Spurs need to reload soon, as in getting rid of Duncan and Ginobili while they still have high trade value and getting some more youth in here.

It really sounds like this PF thing could bother Duncan for the rest of his career, and Ginobili is getting hurt all the time, the Spurs need more of a "full-time" employee.


I love the combo of Chris Bosh, Jason Terry and Parker to build another team around.

It sounds ridiculous now, but in a few years, all of you will see why...


Worst post ever.

[HB22inSA]

Worst post ever.
Well, like I said, it may take more than a few years for some of us to get it...

[Solid D]

That may be, but I "get it" now.

I'm not eating what you're serving, though.

Using your logic Rasheed Wallace should have been traded when he was suffering from Plantar Faciitis a couple of years ago, when they could get something for him.

[FromWayDowntown]

Tim Duncan is not yet 30 years old. He's stayed true to this franchise and carried it to unprecedented heights. Now, when he's in a bit of a tough time, some want to just dump him and move along?

We're talking about this after Tim put up 19 and 15, albeit in a loss?

Give me a freakin' break.

[Kori Ellis]

It really sounds like this PF thing could bother Duncan for the rest of his career, and Ginobili is getting hurt all the time, the Spurs need more of a "full-time" employee.

What makes you think PF is something that lingers for years? It usually bothers people 4-6 months.

Tim is averaging virtually the same numbers as last season and has only missed one game all year.

[slayermin]

I keep driving this point home, but no one gets it yet.

Spurs need to reload soon, as in getting rid of Duncan and Ginobili while they still have high trade value and getting some more youth in here.


If in soon you mean 6-8 years down the road, I will listen to you. But if you mean within the next two or three years, that is idiotic. This team is going to win at least one maybe two more rings before it's over.

[Kori Ellis]

2004-05 Duncan 20.3/11.1
2005-06 Duncan 19.5/11.5

His defense isn't up to par because he's slower and can't jump as well. But he's got a couple more months before the postseason. I wouldn't be packaging him already.

As far as Manu goes, timvp and I were discussing last night how many more seasons Manu will play in the NBA. Do you all think he'll make it 2010 when his contract ends?

[hussker]

What makes you think PF is something that lingers for years? It usually bothers people 4-6 months.

Tim is averaging virtually the same numbers as last season and has only missed one game all year.

Agree on all parts, and some good news...

Just spoke with some med equipment reps the other day that are getting out the newest Tech in PF treatment. Based on the same tech as the ESWL for renal stones and the preliminary studies/results are VERY PROMISING. Less recovery time from invasive procedures and less risk than depot steroids, which have risks associated as well.

[Solid D]

As far as Manu goes, timvp and I were discussing last night how many more seasons Manu will play in the NBA. Do you all think he'll make it 2010 when his contract ends?

Yes, I think Manu can make it to 2010. He may have to adjust his game like Thunder Dan Majerle did...but Manu is almost like a gymnast he's so flexible. That may count for something,

[Kori Ellis]

Yes, I think Manu can make it to 2010. He may have to adjust his game like Thunder Dan Majerle did...but Manu is almost like a gymnast he's so flexible. That may count for something,

So, you think he will have to become primarily a 3 point shooter in his last couple seasons of his contract?

[1Parker1]

AI is still going strong at 30 and I think he's injured over 50% of his body at one point or another. So there's hope for Manu :)

[HB22inSA]

What makes you think PF is something that lingers for years? It usually bothers people 4-6 months.

Tim is averaging virtually the same numbers as last season and has only missed one game all year.
There are several cases where people have PF as a chronic condition, even after extended periods of rest (ie, 4-6 months), whether it's related to work, how their foot is actually structured, and plenty of other factors.

And the "full-time" comment was meant for Manu, not for Tim.

[Solid D]

So, you think he will have to become primarily a 3 point shooter in his last couple seasons of his contract?

Beyond his contract, moreso, but Manu is a more accomplished passer and playmaker than Dan ever was. He has more options.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I keep driving this point home, but no one gets it yet.

Spurs need to reload soon, as in getting rid of Duncan and Ginobili while they still have high trade value and getting some more youth in here.

I'm a big picture kind of guy. You're still a fucking idiot.

[Kori Ellis]

There are several cases where people have PF as a chronic condition, even after extended periods of rest (ie, 4-6 months), whether it's related to work, how their foot is actually structured, and plenty of other factors.

And the "full-time" comment was meant for Manu, not for Tim.

Name the several cases.

I know of the athletes that had it and it's lasted for four to six months and then they've never had it again.

Can you name an athlete that it was chronic?

[Kori Ellis]

Beyond his contract, moreso, but Manu is a more accomplished passer and playmaker than Dan ever was. He has more options.

I don't think Manu will play beyond this contract. And I think he'll have to make huge adjustments in his last few seasons.

[HB22inSA]

You see, my point is this, and pay attention now:

Let's deal them "now" while they still have great trade value so the Spurs can get great players.

There's no use trading Duncan when he's averaging 15 and 10 in 3 years. Who are the Spurs going to get for that?

Reload now, not later.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You see, my point is this, and pay attention now:

Let's deal them "now" while they still have great trade value so the Spurs can get great players.

There's no use trading Duncan when he's averaging 15 and 10 in 3 years. Who are the Spurs going to get for that?


Duncan will still be averaging about 20 and 12 in 3 years.

You see my point is this - you're a fucking idiot.

[HB22inSA]

Name the several cases.

I know of the athletes that had it and it's lasted for four to six months and then they've never had it again.

Can you name an athlete that it was chronic?
I'm not talking about athletes in general with that, and I don't know of any whose career was ended by that.

But, what concerns me is that Duncan got all this rest in the offseason, and then developed this in training camp.

So it's one of 2 things:

Duncan didn't "take care" of himself as well as he should have in the offseason -- or -- he may be predisposed to the condition based on leg and foot structure and things like that.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm not talking about athletes in general with that, and I don't know of any whose career was ended by that.


Fine, then why cry like a girl now?



But, what concerns me is that Duncan got all this rest in the offseason, and then developed this in training camp.


That's the nature of it. Fuck, he could have just as easily gone out and jumped up and come down on someone's foot the first game and tore up his ankle. Big deal.



So it's one of 2 things:

Duncan didn't "take care" of himself as well as he should have in the offseason -- or -- he may be predisposed to the condition based on leg and foot structure and things like that.

You can't take care of yourself for plantar fascitis. Injuries happen. I guess you've never played a sport in your life. I played three sports in high school and was training year round. I still got injured. Sometimes shit happens.

The two possibilities here for you:

1. Fucking
2. Idiot

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not talking about athletes in general with that, and I don't know of any whose career was ended by that.

But, what concerns me is that Duncan got all this rest in the offseason, and then developed this in training camp.

So it's one of 2 things:

Duncan didn't "take care" of himself as well as he should have in the offseason -- or -- he may be predisposed to the condition based on leg and foot structure and things like that.

:wtf

Are you just making up stuff now?

Those two things don't have anything to do with plantar fasciitis.

[HB22inSA]

You see my point is this - you're a fucking idiot.
You're right, I don't have enough internet time like you to be an "expert" on the Spurs.

This is the unfortunate thing about this board, when someone comes up with a view that is not the same as someone else's, name calling is the result.

It's really just very immature if you ask me.

And I really hope you don't act this way in "real" life, because you aren't "protected" by your computer screen.

[1Parker1]

Reload now, not later.

You're logic makes no sense. If you have the championship and proven players to help you win NOW, you do it. Why would you invest in the unknown...that'd be a gamble.

Duncan played through 3 ankle sprains last season and the Spurs still managed to win the trophy.

In the words of the famous timvp, "Simmer Down."

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not talking about athletes in general with that, and I don't know of any whose career was ended by that.

But, what concerns me is that Duncan got all this rest in the offseason, and then developed this in training camp.

So it's one of 2 things:

Duncan didn't "take care" of himself as well as he should have in the offseason -- or -- he may be predisposed to the condition based on leg and foot structure and things like that.

or he may have been injured during the season.


More importantly, it is impossible to get equal value for Tim Duncan. In making a deal to ship out Duncan, the Spurs would necessarily be taking a gigantic step backwards in the here and now.

Tim Duncan deserves better than "fans" who are willing to throw him under the bus and ship him off at the first sign of any adversity

[HB22inSA]

Nevermind, I'm going to go tell my Doctor what an idiot he is.

Hell, it works for you people.

[hussker]

There are several cases where people have PF as a chronic condition, even after extended periods of rest (ie, 4-6 months), whether it's related to work, how their foot is actually structured, and plenty of other factors.

And the "full-time" comment was meant for Manu, not for Tim.


Dear Doctor HB,

In reference to PF, I respectfully raise this to you!

http://webpages.charter.net/bullshit/desk_flag.bmp

[Peter]

Tim Duncan is the greatest player in the history of the San Antonio Spurs. As long as he wants to play, you don't ask any questions and then you thank him when he leaves.

Who the fuck cares about 2013? Let's win now and next season and the next season after that. This team as it stands still has a fairly open window to win multiple additional championships. You never blow that up.

In addition, it's not as if TD and Manu's salaries combined are killing the Spurs. That's still a far cry from what Shaq is getting a season and I'd say the Lakers erred in letting him and Kobe be split up.

[FromWayDowntown]

Nevermind, I'm going to go tell my Doctor what an idiot he is.

Hell, it works for you people.

If you have evidence, bring it. Just saying "well I've heard" isn't particularly convincing, particularly when no known athlete has had a career ended by the injury.

And don't take offense to people challenging your viewpoint, particularly this one. My goodness, you're asking that someone agree that the Spurs give up on title hopes now for a chance that they'll have title chances 5 years from now.

These ARE the Spurs glory days and they ARE the glory days because of Tim Duncan.

[zero signal]

So, you think he will have to become primarily a 3 point shooter in his last couple seasons of his contract?
There's no way he'll be able to keep taking beatings like he did from the Thuggets and Sonics. He'll have no choice but to adjust.

I do think he will transition well into the next Horry... he's wily, clutch, and brings the intangibles.

[zero signal]

Tim Duncan is the greatest player in the history of the San Antonio Spurs. As long as he wants to play, you don't ask any questions and then you thank him when he leaves.

Who the fuck cares about 2013? Let's win now and next season and the next season after that. This team as it stands still has a fairly open window to win multiple additional championships. You never blow that up.

In addition, it's not as if TD and Manu's salaries combined are killing the Spurs. That's still a far cry from what Shaq is getting a season and I'd say the Lakers erred in letting him and Kobe be split up.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7618/word6ge.gif

[Peter]

The one constant in the Spurs three championships has been Tim Duncan. If you move him then you are ripping out the heart of Spurs Basketball.

If you say the team needs more ballas then I'm gonna start having flashbacks.

[Mark in Austin]

There are several cases where people have PF as a chronic condition, even after extended periods of rest (ie, 4-6 months), whether it's related to work, how their foot is actually structured, and plenty of other factors.

Several cases in the history of medicine? In the NBA? In your circle of friends? Or are you talking about several sub-categories of PF that are chronic, and not a specific person or people? If that is the case, how do you know that Duncan has that type of PF? Especially since it hasn't ever surfaced in the NBA?

Please be more specific with what you are claiming.

Regardless, trading Duncan and Manu is just asinine. It's not about people having no tolerance for different takes. It's about people around here having little or no tolerance for incredibly stupid takes.

[Peter]

I guess we have confirmation that Mark Cuban reads this forum.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're right, I don't have enough internet time like you to be an "expert" on the Spurs.

This is the unfortunate thing about this board, when someone comes up with a view that is not the same as someone else's, name calling is the result.


What's unfortunate is your idiotic view that we should break up a team that is going to contend for the NBA Title (the only thing that matters) for the next 4-5 years, with three rings already in the pocket.

That's why I called you an idiot. My God, we could end up with anywhere from 3-8 rings in the Tim Duncan era, and you want to break it up to get some talent for the future. Like I said. *Fucking Idiot*.



It's really just very immature if you ask me.


Immature is quoting some back alley med school dropout about plantar fascitis.


And I really hope you don't act this way in "real" life, because you aren't "protected" by your computer screen.

Actually I don't act this way in "real life", because I don't engage in conversions with people with such limited mental capacities.

But hey man, you're brilliant. Break up a dynasty to try and get some talent for the future.

A-fucking-men.

[Kori Ellis]

HB22 looks like he wants the organization to operate as a cold-hearted business and just use each player in their prime and then ship them out.

In theory, that might be a good idea but it will never work. First of all, the prime time players of today are the veteran role players that are needed for Championships in the future.

Secondly, why would players want to sign with the Spurs if they knew the minute their stats slipped, they'd be shipped out?

The Spurs run their organization with a sense of loyalty and respect. They aren't going to trade away Tim Duncan in his prime and hope that the next guy they get will be better for longer.

How do you know if you trade him for Bosh that Bosh won't have a knee injury that ends his career tomorrow?

The Spurs build from within. They have a good crop of Euro prospects that they'll continue to add to with every draft class and by the time Tim/Manu bow out, they should still be in good shape.

These are the Glory Years. Don't try to mess with it. Most organizations don't have years like this. Our kids might never see a Championship in San Antonio again.

Like I said two other times today, Spurs fans are spoiled.

[Solid D]

Tim Duncan is the greatest player in the history of the San Antonio Spurs. As long as he wants to play, you don't ask any questions and then you thank him when he leaves.

Who the fuck cares about 2013? Let's win now and next season and the next season after that. This team as it stands still has a fairly open window to win multiple additional championships. You never blow that up.

In addition, it's not as if TD and Manu's salaries combined are killing the Spurs. That's still a far cry from what Shaq is getting a season and I'd say the Lakers erred in letting him and Kobe be split up.

Here, here.

You are making wayyyyy too much sense, though. Get refuel.

[Peter]

HB22 looks like he wants the organization to operate as a cold-hearted business and just use each player in their prime and then ship them out.

In theory, that might be a good idea but it will never work. First of all, the prime time players of today are the veteran role players that are needed for Championships in the future.

Secondly, why would players want to sign with the Spurs if they knew the minute their stats slipped, they'd be shipped out?

The Spurs run their organization with a sense of loyalty and respect. They aren't going to trade away Tim Duncan in his prime and hope that the next guy they get will be better for longer.

How do you know if you trade him for Bosh that Bosh won't have a knee injury that ends his career tomorrow?

The Spurs build from within. They have a good crop of Euro prospects that they'll continue to add to with every draft class and by the time Tim/Manu bow out, they should still be in good shape.

These are the Glory Years. Don't try to mess with it. Most organizations don't have years like this. Our kids might never see a Championship in San Antonio again.

Like I said two other times today, Spurs fans are spoiled.


Exactly. Look at how elusive NBA championships are. Think back to 1990 and how certain it seemed that the Spurs would win one within the next 5 seasons. Why kill the Golden Goose now in order to position yourself for 3 to 5 seasons from now? Again, none of the Spurs' Big 3 is more than 30 years old. Say each of them were 3 years older than they are now. You still do not blow that up.

It takes a long time to reach that mountaintop. Enjoy it. In the name of Sleepy Floyd, Donald Royal and Samaki Walker, amen.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I can't even believe this is being discussed.

I agree with the "fucking idiot" comment.

Tim Duncan deserves nothing less than to walk away from the game in the silver-and-black just as David Robinson did.

This team is good enough to win multiple championships in the next coming years. I hope that you remember this conversation years down the line if the Spurs should fall from grace and sit back and enjoy the ride now.

[Spurminator]

I don't know why you all are being so hard on HB22inSA. Trading your franchise player for up-and-comers is a time-tested, proven winning strategy that works almost every time.

Take for instance that time that team did it... And that other time. Remember? That worked out great.

Remember?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah, it worked out great for the Lakers now that you mentioned it :lol

[Brutalis]

I can't even believe this is being discussed.

I agree with the "fucking idiot" comment.

Tim Duncan deserves nothing less than to walk away from the game in the silver-and-black just as David Robinson did.

This team is good enough to win multiple championships in the next coming years. I hope that you remember this conversation years down the line if the Spurs should fall from grace and sit back and enjoy the ride now.
AMEN BRODA

[spursfaninla]

The Slamming may now cease. Mr. write has been shown his ass.

Over-reacting to duncan's injury, then SPECULATING (with no evidence AT ALL, mind you) that his injury could be chronic (with athletic history that we know of contradicting the possiblity, mind you).

Further, blowing up a championship-level team, mid-peak, to rebuild, to avoid a POSSIBLE celtics/bulls plummet/decline.

What did the Bulls learn? NEVER BLOW UP A CHAMPION. they did, and they were LUCKY to get into the playoffs last year, and will be luckier still to get in this year. 10 years later they are BAD, BAD, BAD.

I'm afraid you don't seem to understand its not just talent and youth, its also desire, will, competitiveness, cold-blooded cluchness and, yes, being lucky. Duncan and Manu have that, more than just a few others.

Unless you got guys like Lebron or wade for Manu, you lose ALOT, even if those other players put up numbers better than Manu, because of the intangibles that Manu brings; he is an excellent defender, is super-clutch, and right now is playing the best years of his life.

And NO ONE is going to give us one of the top 5 young swingmen for Manu. There ARE NO pf's that are close to equal compensation for Duncan, and the ones that are close (brand, garnett, gasol, dirk) will decline around the same time as Duncan anyway.

[nkdlunch]

WTF?? we still the current champions and someone is talking about dumping our stars??? wait till they lose the champions label first... damn!

[GoSpurs21]

well, I too miss the Spurs running more but it is hard to do when the coach is playing the AARP members of this team (NVE, Fin, Berry, Horry). They may be old but at least they can't remember how to run a fast break.

[mrpach]

this team is made for the playoffs
and about tpark disrupting the ball movement, i couldnt agree more, i think thats the reason for using nve and tp at the same time. if pop used brent instead of nick at pg the team would not give so much height on the defensive end

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I know Kori isn't into banning people, but I wish she would institute the "FM" (fvcking moron) banning rule for people like this HB guy.

[GoSpurs21]

this team is made for the playoffs
and about tpark disrupting the ball movement, i couldnt agree more, i think thats the reason for using nve and tp at the same time. if pop used brent instead of nick at pg the team would not give so much height on the defensive endI dont get how everyone around here thinks that NVE and Fin are just going to turn around their pathetic play and suddenly become playoff saviors. Neither has ever done so when they we at their peaks in thier careers so what magic bean is going to suddenly change them?
If the two cant even play well against non play off teams what the hell makes you think they will be able to play well in playoff games against younger, faster talent?

[cheguevara]

Barry will produce in the playoffs, some. Finley might be used as Big Dog was used last playoffs, which is as a benchwarmer. We still have a shot at it regardless.

[101A]

You see, my point is this, and pay attention now:

Let's deal them "now" while they still have great trade value so the Spurs can get great players.

There's no use trading Duncan when he's averaging 15 and 10 in 3 years. Who are the Spurs going to get for that?

Reload now, not later.


MENSA,

Teams don't reload while they are still in championship form; they reload after that time has passed - or when it's obvious they can't get over the hump (what Dallas will do after this season).

[Peter]

Duncan's probably going to be around for 5 more seasons, at least. In addition, Parker is all of 23 years old. I don't see Manu retiring anytime soon.

The Big 3 are in place for the next 5 seasons. Man, Spurs fans don't know when they've got it good. How did they cope when Duncan was on that plane to Orlando in 2000?

[SAGambler]

Tim Duncan deserves better than "fans" who are willing to throw him under the bus and ship him off at the first sign of any adversity

I agree. Tim Duncan is the reason this team owns those trophys...

Of course, I understand fans being fans... At the first sign of trouble.. Bail..

I mean geez, spend some time on the Piston board every time they lose a game.. You'll see what I mean..

[duncan2k5]

I dont know if its just me or now, but it seems like nowadays Pop is reluctant to bench people's ass. he seems more intent on distributing minutes than playing the players that mesh well with each other. like I said, Pop is the man, but i hope he goes back to dictator Pop when playoff time comes.

and HELL no we shouldn't trade Duncan and manu. if we can have one of the best records in the NBA and in Spurs history with an injured team that doesn't have 100% chemistry, just imagine...