Oberto guarding Dirk?

[SouthernFried]

I know Oberto could guard Dirk better than anyone else on our team. But, Pop would have to play him some serious minutes, so it prolly won't happen. Still, I'd love to see it.

[Pandaemonaeon]

Oberto? What the fuck?

[MI21]

No way that Oberto would be better at guarding Nowitzki than Bowen or Duncan.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Seriously, what the hell are you thinking??

[Chris]

Duncan will guard Dirk more than likely but an interesting matchup nonetheless. I'm interested to see how it pans out if it pans out at all considering Dirk will probably be resting if Duncan is on the bench.

[ShoogarBear]

Oberto on Dirk = 50-point game

[Solid D]

Oberto was surprisingly good defending Pau Gasol. He actually defended him better than did Timmy or the other bigs.

Dirk is a different story because Dirk can take guys out on the floor so much more. In the post, Oberto would be okay. Nowitzki likes fadeaways the closer he gets to the basket, though.

[LilMissSPURfect]

we gonna have to settle for Parker on Nowitski....(chess games) and Manu on Dampier and ;-)

[leemajors]

we gonna have to settle for Parker on Nowitski....(chess games) and Manu on Dampier and ;-)

maybe if nellie was our head coach. i think he tried nash on shaq.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

When Argentina played Germany twice in 2002 Oberto didn't guard Dirk, it was Wolkowisky, who is a defensive specialist (and by the way he did a great job on him). Oberto guarded Femerling, a 7'1'' center.

(My sig might suggest otherwise, but he wasn't guarding Dick most of the game).

[Solid D]

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5521/aobertodefiendevtop3mc.jpg

Wow, Oberto is owning Kiwi. :lol

[waly.mg]

No way that Oberto would be better at guarding Nowitzki than Bowen or Duncan.

Probably Duncan is too much better defender than Fabri, but Fabricio have 6 foul to give, and he can Fouled our without a problem

If TD guard Dirk and take some fouls, it can be a big problem

[gus]

When Argentina played Germany twice in 2002 Oberto didn't guard Dirk, it was Wolkowisky, who is a defensive specialist (and by the way he did a great job on him). Oberto guarded Femerling, a 7'1'' center.

(My sig might suggest otherwise, but he wasn't guarding Dick most of the game).

By the way Nowitzki went 0-13 on 3pt.

Gus

[G-Nob]

Expect Bruce to mirror Dirk, just like the last meeting in Dallas. Dirk struggled the whole game.

[Solid D]

The way Dallas likes to handle whoever defends Dirk one-on-one is to pair Dirk with a playmaker and run side or high screen/rolls. If Parker is defending the playmaker and the Spurs are forced to switch off the screen, that leaves TP on Dirk. Dirk has all the space he needs with that matchup to get his shot off.

In the 2nd game vs. the Mavs, the Spurs handled that strategy better with some extra doubling on the ball and not switching, as I remember,...but in the 1st game, Devin Harris and Dirk killed the Spurs.

[G-Nob]

Force Harris or Terry out of the paint to kick the ball out, but don't leave Stack in the corner and Tony must not let Terry get those wide open threes. If we don't allow second shots, we'll be fine.

[Solid D]

Provided the Spurs don't switch the screens without help, G-Nob, your strategy might be effective.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Or put Bowen on the ballhandler. If you switch, you have Bruce on Dirk, and even with the size difference Bruce can perfectly disrupt his shot.

[G-Nob]

Watching the Mavs up close every game, they struggle when their passes aren't fluid. Any interruption in their offensive flow then becomes a grind to which the spurs have the advantage. When they don't hit their shots, they try to penetrate the zone for a few easy ten footers. Howard is their go-to guy when this happens. Also, Dirk has been flying to the rim a lot more this year. As long as Nazr and Tim are jamming, that could also force Dirk to kick out.

[Solid D]

Or put Bowen on the ballhandler. If you switch, you have Bruce on Dirk, and even with the size difference Bruce can perfectly disrupt his shot.

Okay, now who is the other Spur defending Dirk if Bowen is on the ballhandler? Only inquiring as to the specifics...that's all.

[G-Nob]

Okay, now who is the other Spur defending Dirk if Bowen is on the ballhandler? Only inquiring as to the specifics...that's all.

Yeah, that wouldn't give Dallas a reason to screen if there is already a mismatch.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

This may sound as sacrilege to some...but man in zone!

If Dirk is in the low post, put Rasho on him. (Switch to Bruce if he goes to the permeter to set a screen).

If he is in the high post, put TD. (Switch to Bruce if he moves out for a screen)

If he is in the perimeter, Bruce. (Here is where it gets complicated in case of a screen without the ball, e.g. Howard/Terry set a screen on Bruce without the ball, the ball handler passes to Dirk, who is matched-up with Manu or Tony). The solution here would be Manu or Tony not switching and Bruce moving behind the screen (as he usally does).

Also, be extra careful when they fake the pick-and-roll, and it becomes a pick-and-pop.

[Solid D]

If Dirk is in the low post, put Rasho on him. (Switch to Bruce if he goes to the permeter to set a screen).

If he is in the high post, put TD. (Switch to Bruce if he moves out for a screen)

If he is in the perimeter, Bruce. (Here is where it gets complicated in case of a screen without the ball, e.g. Howard/Terry set a screen on Bruce without the ball, the ball handler passes to Dirk, who is matched-up with Manu or Tony). The solution here would be Manu or Tony not switching and Bruce moving behind the screen (as he usally does).

Also, be extra careful when they fake the pick-and-roll, and it becomes a pick-and-pop.


I'm not sure I've heard of that exact defense. :)

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I'm not sure I've heard of that exact defense. :)

Basically, it's man-to-man depending on the zone where the opposition best player is, and rotations. The objetive is to try to have your players placed where they play the best defense, rather than making them chase players all over the court. It's very important that the players have good basketball IQ to recognize what kind of play the opposition is running. In the NBA it's not common because of the limitations on zone defense and because coaches rely more on direct man-to-man half court defense.

Some stuff that may be of interest to you:

Pick and roll Defense (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//1782.pdf)

Defense against picks of players without the ball (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//915.pdf)

Defending the Pick and roll (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//1740.pdf)

Zone Defense 1 (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//1757.pdf)

Zone Defense 2 (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//982.pdf)

How to buld a 2-3 Zone Defense (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//124.pdf)

[drivanroca]

^ :tu

[mavsfan1000]

Basically, it's man-to-man depending on the zone where the opposition best player is, and rotations. The objetive is to try to have your players placed where they play the best defense, rather than making them chase players all over the court. It's very important that the players have good basketball IQ to recognize what kind of play the opposition is running. In the NBA it's not common because of the limitations on zone defense and because coaches rely more on direct man-to-man half court defense.

Some stuff that may be of interest to you:

Pick and roll Defense (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//1782.pdf)

Defense against picks of players without the ball (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//915.pdf)

Defending the Pick and roll (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//1740.pdf)

Zone Defense 1 (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//1757.pdf)

Zone Defense 2 (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//982.pdf)

How to buld a 2-3 Zone Defense (http://www.basketball.org.nz/uimages//124.pdf)
Pop? Is that you? :lol

[Solid D]

Thanks guys. Some of those FIBA articles have been posted/linked here in previous discussons. I'm fairly familiar with zone defenses. I also know a matchup zone when I see one and the Spurs have been using a matchup zone with more frequency this year whenever they decide to use a zone. The hybrid defense you were describing didn't look like anything I'd heard of or seen before. I still haven't.

[spur219]

Oberto really is an above average defender but he can't guard Dirk.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Thanks guys. Some of those FIBA articles have been posted/linked here in previous discussons. I'm fairly familiar with zone defenses. I also know a matchup zone when I see one and the Spurs have been using a matchup zone with more frequency this year whenever they decide to use a zone. The hybrid defense you were describing didn't look like anything I'd heard of or seen before. I still haven't.

Well, it's the way Argentina defended Dirk back in 2002. It's a constant switch between Box-And-One, Triangle-And-Two, 2-3 Zone, and Man-To-Man to disrupt the offense rhythm.

Usually Box-And-One is used to defend a team that has one strong scoring option, which was the case of Germany. This defense is better to mark Guards (it was used on Iverson when he played in College), but with some modifications and smart players, it can be used on a big man who has Dirk's shooting range.

When in Box-And-One, Triangle-And-Two and Man-To-Man, Wolkowisky was man-marking Dirk. Pepe Sanchez was the other player man-marking, (to the German point guard) when playing Triangle-And-Two, but Germany lacked a third perimetral shooter scoring option, something that Dallas has. That lack of a third scoring option allowed the other 3 players to play a zone covering the paint (and they were 3 very good defenders and rebounders for FIBA standards: Manu, Nocioni and Oberto).

In Man-To-Man, if Nowitzky was matched-up with a smaller defender after a screen, Wolkowisky would still follow Dirk even if that meant double-teaming him in the perimeter, leaving a German player open for a shoot or a penetration (if Dirk could pass off the double team). But just for a second because the defense would help and rotate, leaving the Germans with the only option of a risky skip pass to the weak side.

2-3 Zone was used briefly when Nowitzky was posting-up, with Nocioni or Oberto helping Wolkowisky on the weak side, or Manu going for the steal if Dirk was trying to back down. Again, the lack of shooting options prevented the kick out.

If you understood anything of what I just finished typing, I congratulate you, because I don't know if it made any sense! Do you speak Spanish? :lol

More related articles:

Switching From 2-3 Zone To Man-To-Man Defense (http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=236)

Attacking the Unorthodox Zone (http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=268)

The Triangle-And-Two Defense (http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=399)

[yavozerb]

Dirk is one of the best players in the world, no way oberto even slows him down..If oberto was to defend him, he would have 3 fouls by the end of the 1st quarter!!

[Solid D]

Well, it's the way Argentina defended Dirk back in 2002. It's a constant switch between Box-And-One, Triangle-And-Two, 2-3 Zone, and Man-To-Man to disrupt the offense rhythm.

Usually Box-And-One is used to defend a team that has one strong scoring option, which was the case of Germany. This defense is better to mark Guards (it was used on Iverson when he played in College), but with some modifications and smart players, it can be used on a big man who has Dirk's shooting range.

When in Box-And-One, Triangle-And-Two and Man-To-Man, Wolkowisky was man-marking Dirk. Pepe Sanchez was the other player man-marking, (to the German point guard) when playing Triangle-And-Two, but Germany lacked a third perimetral shooter scoring option, something that Dallas has. That lack of a third scoring option allowed the other 3 players to play a zone covering the paint (and they were 3 very good defenders and rebounders for FIBA standards: Manu, Nocioni and Oberto).

In Man-To-Man, if Nowitzky was matched-up with a smaller defender after a screen, Wolkowisky would still follow Dirk even if that meant double-teaming him in the perimeter, leaving a German player open for a shoot or a penetration (if Dirk could pass off the double team). But just for a second because the defense would help and rotate, leaving the Germans with the only option of a risky skip pass to the weak side.

2-3 Zone was used briefly when Nowitzky was posting-up, with Nocioni or Oberto helping Wolkowisky on the weak side, or Manu going for the steal if Dirk was trying to back down. Again, the lack of shooting options prevented the kick out.

If you understood anything of what I just finished typing, I congratulate you, because I don't know if it made any sense! Do you speak Spanish? :lol

More related articles:

Switching From 2-3 Zone To Man-To-Man Defense (http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=236)

Attacking the Unorthodox Zone (http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=268)

The Triangle-And-Two Defense (http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=399)

I understand what you are saying and I can normally recognize the various defenses being employed in-game, especially if the team runs them correctly. I was asking you to see if you had thought it through on the screen/roll defense. It sounded like, in your first description of a hybrid zone, like you were describing changing defenses mid possesion, depending where Dirk was on the floor at any particular moment. That's just not practical so let's move on.

Your second post discussing how Argentina changed their looks throughout the game made more sense, although not necessarily workable in the NBA.

Let's face it. Defenses like the Triangle and 2 or other combination zones are really junk defenses that are most effective in the NBA coming out of stopages, in small bursts using the surprise factor. Minnesota used to run the Triangle and 2, or that's what it looked like, mixed in with a 2-3 against the Spurs and Tony Parker could beat those tactics by being aggressive. Otherwise, the Spurs would end up being lazy and hoist up something like 25 3-pt. attempts.

I'll take your word for it on the Indy stategies by Magnano. All those looks take much more practice time to master than the NBA pros have time for.

[SequSpur]

I ain't even worried about it. Fuck Dirk.

[Solid D]

Good strategy.

[SequSpur]

Good strategy.

Gracias.

[mavsfan1000]

How about put Parker on Dirk.

[ShoogarBear]

How about put Parker on Dirk.

You must not have seen many previous Spurs-Mavs games.

[waly.mg]

How about put Parker on Dirk.

Nice Choice, but not Tony guarding Dirk

If Tony, TD or Manu can score the same points fo Dirk the game is Over

If Dirk scores 30 and Tony too, we win, and the same thing with the others

[1Parker1]

I'm telling you guys...Manu has this game in the bag. I see flashbacks to last seasons performances.

Book it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

can dirk stop sean marks, that is the x factor

[mavsfan1000]

I don't see how the mavs can stop Marks. :lol

[waly.mg]

Nice Choice, but not Tony guarding Dirk

If Tony, TD or Manu can score the same points fo Dirk the game is Over

If Dirk scores 30 and Tony too, we win, and the same thing with the others

Dirk 23 and Tony 23, and we won