Neighbor charged with shooting teen who walked on his grass

[MaNuMaNiAc]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/20/boy.shot.ap/index.html


BATAVIA, Ohio (AP) -- A man who neighbors say was devoted to his meticulously kept lawn was charged with murder in the shooting of a 15-year-old boy who apparently walked across his yard.

Charles Martin called 911 on Sunday afternoon, saying calmly: "I just killed a kid."

Police, who released the call's contents, said Martin also told the dispatcher: "I've been harassed by him and his parents for five years. Today just blew it up."

Larry Mugrage, whose family lived next door, was shot in the chest with a shotgun. The high school freshman was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Martin, 66, allegedly told police he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn. He remained jailed without bond Monday. His jailers said no attorney was listed for him.

Neighbors said Martin lived alone quietly, often sitting in front of his one-story home with its neat lawn, well-trimmed shrubbery and flag pole with U.S. and Navy flags flying.

Joanne Ritchie, 46, said Mugrage was known as "a good kid." She said she always also considered Martin to be friendly.

Union Township is near Batavia, about 20 miles east of Cincinnati, Ohio.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_25.gif All I know is I'm never walking on someone else's lawn again!

[batman2883]

Thats legal so he shouldnt be in trouble, technically the kid was trespassing, however they might get him just for being a bit excessive

[Jimcs50]

Thats legal so he shouldnt be in trouble, technically the kid was trespassing, however they might get him just for being a bit excessive

It is not legal to shoot someone on your lawn.

The guy will be spending the rest of his life in prison, and rightly so.

[batman2883]

Its still technically tresspassing and you can shoot anyone trespassing on your property, especially if he was warned plenty of times before, but i might just be thinking Texas law

[midgetonadonkey]

The kid shouldn't have been walking on his grass.

[The Cougar]

Its still technically tresspassing and you can shoot anyone trespassing on your property, especially if he was warned plenty of times before, but i might just be thinking Texas law


I believe the law you are referring to, as we know it is only a Texas law. Secondly I believe he has to be in your house to shoot him, not on your property.

[midgetonadonkey]

If you have a fence, they just have to be inside of it. If you don't have a fence they have to be on your porch. Some shit like that.

[T-Pain]

hes gonna get the death penalty

[Mixability]

The kid shouldn't have been walking on his grass.

:lmao

:tu

[Vashner]

Its still technically tresspassing and you can shoot anyone trespassing on your property, especially if he was warned plenty of times before, but i might just be thinking Texas law

That's so wrong. Texas Law? That is not Texas law.

You can only use force for defense of others and yourself.

You can't use force to protect tresspass unless the tresspasser makes a move on you or won't drop weapon etc.

I suggest you learn some law before you look dumb on the forum.

When it comes to use of force don't give out lame advice.

[Mixability]

That's so wrong. Texas Law? That is not Texas law.

You can only use force for defense of others and yourself.

You can't use force to protect tresspass unless the tresspasser makes a move on you or won't drop weapon etc.

I suggest you learn some law before you look dumb on the forum.

When it comes to use of force don't give out lame advice.

Get this: He's studying to be an attorney!!!!!!!


NO, SERIOUSLY!

:lmao

[Trainwreck2100]

That's so wrong. Texas Law? That is not Texas law.

You can only use force for defense of others and yourself.

You can't use force to protect tresspass unless the tresspasser makes a move on you or won't drop weapon etc.

I suggest you learn some law before you look dumb on the forum.

When it comes to use of force don't give out lame advice.


Where the fuck you been, in Texas you can rape, burn, shoot, cut, and bite anyone tresspassing in your home.

[1Parker1]

Its still technically tresspassing and you can shoot anyone trespassing on your property, especially if he was warned plenty of times before, but i might just be thinking Texas law


:lmao You can't shooting somebody just for trespassing...unless maybe it's a burglar and you're doing it in self-defense. Clearly, the young boy wasn't threatening to harm the guy in any way...maybe just his precious grass. In no way was the man's life threatened so he can't claim self-defense as the reason he shot the poor boy. He could have just called the cops on the kid and gotten him in trouble for trespassing instead.

There are some real freaks in this world. Killing a kid over something like this. I heard the story on GMA this morning, the guy actually called 9-11 right after, and hearing the recording, he said very calmly, "I just shot my teenage neighbor because he was $#@ up my lawn." :rolleyes

[pache100]

Where the fuck you been, in Texas you can rape, burn, shoot, cut, and bite anyone tresspassing in your home.

And, apparently, the police can shoot anyone they want.

[Mixability]

hes gonna get the death penalty

Not according to our law student, batman.

:lmao

[midgetonadonkey]

The guy would have been better off just beating the shit out of the kid.

[Mixability]

The guy would have been better off just beating the shit out of the kid.

I wonder how much the parents and kid fucked with him. Not that it was a reason for the kid to die, but I just want both sides of the story.

[batman2883]

That's so wrong. Texas Law? That is not Texas law.

You can only use force for defense of others and yourself.

You can't use force to protect tresspass unless the tresspasser makes a move on you or won't drop weapon etc.

I suggest you learn some law before you look dumb on the forum.

When it comes to use of force don't give out lame advice.
sorry i just go off what i learn at school and they said tresspassing of any kind permits shots to be fired. Who knows though maybe my professor is wrong...maybe you know more than him

[SpursWoman]

I used to live next door to a man like that -- only, he didn't shoot (although he threatened a few times), he called the police. Constantly.

And if you happened to be playing ball and one went over his fence, if you got it back...it'd have a big hole punched into it.

Old bastard. :fro

[midgetonadonkey]

He must have had some really badass grass.

[Vashner]

Check out state code PC 9.02 for reference. In the end you would have to convince a jury or police review that the tresspasser was a threat.

If not you will face charges.

[Mixability]

sorry i just go off what i learn at school and they said tresspassing of any kind permits shots to be fired. Who knows though maybe my professor is wrong...maybe you know more than him

you really need to rethink your career choice. :lol

[batman2883]

why would i need to rethink my career choice?? Its not like im going into criminal law anyways, besides im just going off of what i learned in school.....so danyo what are you doing with your life again??/? thats right still living on the southside...go ahead and crack your jokes ill be sure to buy the oranges your future kids sell off military and commercial or whatever those streets are....so they can at least have something to eat

[Vashner]

Sorry I came off harsh. It's a thing that can change people's life in an instant.

If some perp is on your property and you say freeze mother BEEPer and they keep coming at you then by all means.. blow them away without hesitation with double taps like Jack Bauer...

But if they are just like there to steal a lawn mower you could get in trouble.

It also depends on perps and your record.

[batman2883]

Sorry I came off harsh. It's a thing that can change people's life in an instant.

If some perp is on your property and you say freeze mother BEEPer and they keep coming at you then by all means.. blow them away without hesitation with double taps like Jack Bauer...

But if they are just like there to steal a lawn mower you could get in trouble.

It also depends on perps and your record.
no problem its better to learn these things the hard way, that way it makes a lasting impression......

[Vashner]

I shit my pants in my first gunfight... (learning the hard way) hhehehe

[1Parker1]

sorry i just go off what i learn at school and they said tresspassing of any kind permits shots to be fired. Who knows though maybe my professor is wrong...maybe you know more than him


I think your professor may have just forgotten the "in self-defense" part. :)

[Mixability]

why would i need to rethink my career choice?? Its not like im going into criminal law anyways, besides im just going off of what i learned in school.....so danyo what are you doing with your life again??/? thats right still living on the southside...go ahead and crack your jokes ill be sure to buy the oranges your future kids sell off military and commercial or whatever those streets are....so they can at least have something to eat

You're supposed to learn in school, not just repeat what your teacher says. Yeah, you really know me. :rolleyes You have no idea what I do for a living. If being an authorization associate at Pacificare for more than a couple of years is THAT rewarding, maybe I need to change my career choice.

I live on the Southeast side, you're right, but because I want to, it's where I grew up. I'm not gonna move to another part of town and then bash my roots like you. Remember, you grew up on the Eastside, but all I hear from that hairy vagina on your face is Northside this and Huebner Area that.

[Vashner]

In another post I recommended Sammy Miller for the class. FBI certified instructor, Master Glock Armorer, Officer with DA's office downtown. Sammy's the shiznat.

[batman2883]

You're supposed to learn in school, not just repeat what your teacher says. Yeah, you really know me. :rolleyes You have no idea what I do for a living. If being an authorization associate at Pacificare for more than a couple of years is THAT rewarding, maybe I need to change my career choice.

I live on the Southeast side, you're right, but because I want to, it's where I grew up. I'm not gonna move to another part of town and then bash my roots like you. Remember, you grew up on the Eastside, but all I hear from that hairy vagina on your face is Northside this and Huebner Area that.
Yeah working at pacificare is working well cause they pay for my schooling too, so yeah its a great job in the meantime. As for career choice ha ha ha, why do you have to be jealous that im actually doing something with my life besides staying in San Antonio and living where you grew up.....at one point you have to grow up and cut your imbilical cord from you're "roots" i'm sorry you must be one of those people who are too afraid to leave what you know, you're too comfortable in your surroundings now.......thats so pathetic

[batman2883]

Oh and i've never bashed the eastside...i proudly represent where i come from.....it was a bad neighborhood but guess what i moved out of there as soon as i could....why, because i felt it to be an accomplishment, but i never bad mouthed the eastside.....i go there all the time my parents still live there...

[Trainwreck2100]

Check out state code PC 9.02 for reference. In the end you would have to convince a jury or police review that the tresspasser was a threat.

If not you will face charges.

It is a defense to
prosecution that the conduct in question is justified under this
chapter.

9.41 (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.


A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:


You don't need to convince the jury shit

[batman2883]

he was protecting his grass

[Mixability]

Yeah working at pacificare is working well cause they pay for my schooling too, so yeah its a great job in the meantime. As for career choice ha ha ha, why do you have to be jealous that im actually doing something with my life besides staying in San Antonio and living where you grew up.....at one point you have to grow up and cut your imbilical cord from you're "roots" i'm sorry you must be one of those people who are too afraid to leave what you know, you're too comfortable in your surroundings now.......thats so pathetic

Knocking up a psycho chick and paying child support out your ass for a kid that you never see is doing something with your life? Damn, I haven't been LIVING IT UP like you! :lol I love San Antonio, is there something wrong with that? I don't leave because I love it, I couldn't picture myself anywhere else. So let me guess, once you MAKE IT, you'll up and leave to some "bigtime" city and bash this "wetback" town like you're known to?

[Trainwreck2100]

he was protecting his grass


He was totally in the wrong, but this whole "in self defense" is just crap. Here are a list of three kinds of people Texas law screws over rentors, part timers, and tresspassers.

[Trainwreck2100]

I think your professor may have just forgotten the "in self-defense" part. :)


That's for your Pennsylvania "courts"

[batman2883]

oh man yeah i made a few mistakes in my life im a father at a young age, but guess what im not a dead beat father, i dont fit your stupid cliche's. I pay my child support and i do it proudly knowing that im still being a father, a full time student and a full time employee, as well as living on my own. Yeah you might have a better job than me at the moment but once i graduate what will you have?? nothing to clown on but the fact that you are the loser that stayed behind, and yeah i am planning on moving to a bigger city to better my chances at picking up a high end job.....will i knock on my city no cause i love this city too but i know there is still so much out there in the world to explore..so in the end the only person you should be laughing at is yourself...for being, ironically, a cliche yourself.....a stupid mexican from the southside who will end up being born, raised, and dying in san antonio, with the same job he had from when his youth.......hoping social security doesnt get cut....what a shame i kinda feel sorry for you

[Trainwreck2100]

^^you're getting the shaft on the CS though.

[midgetonadonkey]

You gotta respect him for paying it though.

[Mixability]

oh man yeah i made a few mistakes in my life im a father at a young age, but guess what im not a dead beat father, i dont fit your stupid cliche's. I pay my child support and i do it proudly knowing that im still being a father, a full time student and a full time employee, as well as living on my own. Yeah you might have a better job than me at the moment but once i graduate what will you have?? nothing to clown on but the fact that you are the loser that stayed behind, and yeah i am planning on moving to a bigger city to better my chances at picking up a high end job.....will i knock on my city no cause i love this city too but i know there is still so much out there in the world to explore..so in the end the only person you should be laughing at is yourself...for being, ironically, a cliche yourself.....a stupid mexican from the southside who will end up being born, raised, and dying in san antonio, with the same job he had from when his youth.......hoping social security doesnt get cut....what a shame i kinda feel sorry for you

You must really think I have a crappy job. :lol So you're gonna move and basically gonna be a post office Dad? Your kid will be better off knowing you only by your signature on the monthly check. :) I'm a Mexican, you're a Puerto Rican, your people swam further. Born Raised and Dying in San Antonio: Wouldn't have it any other way. I hope you graduate soon, seriously.

[Trainwreck2100]

Born Raised and Dying in San Antonio: Wouldn't have it any other way. I hope you graduate soon, seriously.


I want to move to Austin, there be some fine ass bitches over there, plus they get recycled every four years.

[Mixability]

with the same job he had from when his youth

I just re read this, you think I still work an hourly paying job? I'm already 26, that'd be lame. I've only had 3 jobs in my life, working at the Movies as an usher, for the Military in the Computer Security Department, and now as an Administrator at a Doctors office.

[Trainwreck2100]

I just re read this, you think I still work an hourly paying job? I'm already 26, that'd be lame. I've only had 3 jobs in my life, working at the Movies as an usher, for the Military in the Computer Security Department, and now as an Administrator at a Doctors office.

movie jobs suck. fuckin people and their bitching

[Mixability]

movie jobs suck. fuckin people and their bitching

Forget their bitching, fucking people and their fucking OUTSIDE food! :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

Forget their bitching, fucking people and their fucking OUTSIDE food! :lol


I didn't mind that, just that those fuckers wouldn't throw it away.

[Mixability]

I didn't mind that, just that those fuckers wouldn't throw it away.

I've seen piss in cups, pizza on the screen, and Church's Chicken boxes.

Seriously! Piss in a cup!?!?!? There is not a movie THAT good!

:lol

[midgetonadonkey]

I had the cops called on me because they caught me drinking beers in the movie theatre. They told me they were calling them and I fucking bolted.

[Mixability]

I had the cops called on me because they caught me drinking beers in the movie theatre. They told me they were calling them and I fucking bolted.

As long as you threw your shit away, I was cool. We'd even have our late night screenings of whatever we wanted to see on the screen on the nights we closed early. Nothing like a party in the theatre! I remember playing Madden 96 on a huge movie screen at about 4 in the morning. It was heaven.

[AlamoSpursFan]

I used to live next door to a man like that -- only, he didn't shoot (although he threatened a few times), he called the police. Constantly.

And if you happened to be playing ball and one went over his fence, if you got it back...it'd have a big hole punched into it.

Old bastard. :fro

:lmao

There was a guy on my street that we always thought was gonna shoot one of us. I swear he had laser beams protecting that damn grass because if you even THOUGHT about touching it, he'd come out screaming like Hillary Clinton.

If the ball went into his yard (his FRONT yard...we played street football) we just considered the game over because NO ONE wanted to chance going in to get it. Fucker parked his car in the garage so you couldn't even tell if he was home.

[Mixability]

:lmao

There was a guy on my street that we always thought was gonna shoot one of us. I swear he had laser beams protecting that damn grass because if you even THOUGHT about touching it, he'd come out screaming like Hillary Clinton.

If the ball went into his yard (his FRONT yard...we played street football) we just considered the game over because NO ONE wanted to chance going in to get it. Fucker parked his car in the garage so you couldn't even tell if he was home.

We lost a whole bunch of footballs, frisbees, etc. in our crazy neighbors yard. He always threatened to call the cops on us. So this one time, my older brother lost his "pot" plant in the dark corner of his yard. My brother pretended to climb the fence to "get it". The neighbor threatened us again, so my brother said, "Go ahead, call the cops!". He did and tried to blame his plant choice on us. Wha!?!!?!? Like 2 adolescent kids knew what weed was! He "moved" soon after. :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

I've seen piss in cups, pizza on the screen, and Church's Chicken boxes.

Seriously! Piss in a cup!?!?!? There is not a movie THAT good!

:lol


Endless amounts of spit, the "tobacco kind", a condom, wendey's bags, mcDs bags, and one time a diaper, I kid you not, amotherfuckin diaper, some jerk changed his kid in the theatre.

[PM5K]

If your grass is really that nice, then it should be able to withstand foot traffic better than anyone elses, I would have just planted a thorn bush in their walking path...

[1Parker1]

9.41 (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.




You don't need to convince the jury shit


No judge is going to believe that is it resonable to shoot a kid for trespassing on your lawn and that such a drastic force was immediately neccesary.

I'm not sure I understand your arguement. Are you justifying that it was ok for the guy to shoot the kid, under the reasoning that he was "trespassing?" Or are you arguing that he doesn't need a self-defense argument to defend himself? If that's the case, then what kind of defense do you think he has?

[Hook Dem]

Shoulda just used Scott's Bonus S..............Keeps out weeds and kids! :lol