Offensive Goaltending

[GO SPurs Go]

I watched the replay and it was 103% ovbious that Bibby touched the net before the ball went in. Can't the Spurs appeal the call because don't the refs have to look at the replay if its a buzzer beater. If they would have looked at it, there's no doubt they would have called off the basket. I'm seriously dissapointed by Salvatore.....

[T Park]

I'm seriously dissapointed by Salvatore

You actually thought he was a decent ref?

The dude is notorious for being horrible.


or as my dad calls him Salv a torrie :lol

[samikeyp]

The Spurs should not have let it get to that point though. The Kings played their asses off and got the win and deserve the props for that. Now lets go get Game 4.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

I watched the replay and it was 103% ovbious that Bibby touched the net before the ball went in. Can't the Spurs appeal the call because don't the refs have to look at the replay if its a buzzer beater. If they would have looked at it, there's no doubt they would have called off the basket. I'm seriously dissapointed by Salvatore.....GET OVER IT.

[rayray2k8]

You actually thought he was a decent ref?

The dude is notorious for being horrible.


or as my dad calls him Salv a torrie :lol

I try not to pin the blame on the officals, but last night
he was atrocious. :madrun

[Ginofan]

GET OVER IT.

Perhaps it was a "gift"?

[rayray2k8]

GET OVER IT.

Yeah just let it go bro.
Im sure game 3 will be fresh in the spurs mind on sunday.
Moving on... :spin

[MannyIsGod]

Thats not offensive goaltending. Why do Spurs fans feel a need to reach for such BS when its obvious that the Spurs just didn't deserve to win last night?

[T Park]

Touching the net when the ball is on the cylindar is offensive goltending.

[LEONARD]

Wow... :lol

[samikeyp]

Thats not offensive goaltending. Why do Spurs fans feel a need to reach for such BS when its obvious that the Spurs just didn't deserve to win last night?

Some fans just look for excuses. The good ones don't.

[Ginofan]

Ehh I don't think he's making an excuse Mikey, I think he was just pointing it out and making another of the What If statements that have flooded us since the loss. No worries though Game 4 will be here soon enough.

[samikeyp]

Manny was the one implying the excuses being made. I was just saying that not all of us do.

[samikeyp]

I also didn't mean you personally GoSpurs.

[Ginofan]

My bad Mikey :)

[MannyIsGod]

No, Tpark, its not.

[samikeyp]

Its all good Mandy. :) I think we were all disappointed by the result. Its the playoffs so heartbreaks are part of it.

[GO SPurs Go]

Thats not offensive goaltending. Why do Spurs fans feel a need to reach for such BS when its obvious that the Spurs just didn't deserve to win last night?

[exstatic]

:lol Manny was like "He barely touched it!!!" last night, acknowledging that he DID in fact touch the net. They're not going to call that, violation or not.

[MannyIsGod]

Its not a violation to touch the net. If you pull on the net to where the rim moves, THEN it is a violation. But touching the net isn't illegal.

[v2freak]

The Spurs didn't deserve to win? Is that why the final score was so close? It could have been anyone's game.

[GO SPurs Go]

Look, I'm not giving an excuse for the shit play, nor am I stating all the obvious errors that the refs had. All I'm really interested to know how much money the Maloof Brothers paid the refs, because although ALL THREE refs were supposed to look at the shot and no one saw (or no one chose to see) the goaltend, they had (by NBA rules) to watch the replay. Fucking assholes they still didnt call it!!.
Did the Spurs deserve to win? NO
Should they have won? Yes

[ambchang]

Dude, this is pathetic. Bibby touched the net? Would it have mattered? The Spurs made a huge mental mistake at the end of the game, and the Kings played a great possession. The Kings deserved to win, the Spurs deserved to lose.
Bring on game 4.

[Kori Ellis]

Game 2: Duncan's screen was illegal, blah, blah, blah
Game 3: Bibby touched net, it was interference, blah, blah, blah

Either or both of these statements might be true, but fans need to get over the calls and non-calls. Somethings are subjective, somethings are just missed. That's just basketball.

[MannyIsGod]

Once again, touching the net is not goaltending.

[exstatic]

Agreed, Kori. They weren't going to call either of those situations. I just think Kings fans are funny for failing to aknowledge that what Bibby did (touching the net with the ball on the rim) is a violation, after SCREAMING at the tops of their lungs about a moving screen.

[exstatic]

Once again, touching the net is not goaltending.
With the ball on the rim? You bet your ASS it is.

[Kori Ellis]

Once again, touching the net is not goaltending.

Well I think it could be considered vibrating the rim or basket (or however that part of the interference rule goes).

[Winnipeg_Spur]

There's no way they would call that in a situation like that, ever. Frankly I'd be embarrassed for the nba if they did, you don't want to win like that.

[MannyIsGod]

No, merely touching the net is never interfernece. If you pull the net and it moves the rim, then it becomes interference, but nowhere in the NBA's rulebook does it even mention the net. The only thing mentioned is the rim and the backboard.

Incidental contact on the net while the shot is up is not interference. I leave open the possibility that I missed the rule, but someones going to have to link me to it and show me where it says that touching the net is a violation.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Agreed, Kori. They weren't going to call either of those situations. I just think Kings fans are funny for failing to aknowledge that what Bibby did (touching the net with the ball on the rim) is a violation, after SCREAMING at the tops of their lungs about a moving screen.
No Kings fan on this board were screaming about the moving screen. I simply brought it up to counter this so called goaltending. Both would have been ticky tack if called, and I'm glad they weren't called.

[Kori Ellis]

No, merely touching the net is never interfernece. If you pull the net and it moves the rim, then it becomes interference, but nowhere in the NBA's rulebook does it even mention the net. The only thing mentioned is the rim and the backboard.

Incidental contact on the net while the shot is up is not interference. I leave open the possibility that I missed the rule, but someones going to have to link me to it and show me where it says that touching the net is a violation.

No, you are right; touching it isn't an automatic violation. But touching it while the ball is on the rim could easily be ruled as the part about vibrating the rim or whatever. It's subjective.

[Kori Ellis]

There's no way they would call that in a situation like that, ever. Frankly I'd be embarrassed for the nba if they did, you don't want to win like that.

I agree, they would never call it in a situation like that.

[Tek_XX]

Pulling on the net is a violation, but i haven't seen a replay so i don't know if it really made a difference. But yeah the refs aren't going to make that call unless it's extremely obvious that it effected the shot.

[MannyIsGod]

No, you are right; touching it isn't an automatic violation. But touching it while the ball is on the rim could easily be ruled as the part about vibrating the rim or whatever. It's subjective.I agree with that. I also think that if you look at the replay, there is almost 100% certainty that the way Bibby touched the net was no where near enough to effect the rim which is why I hate to see so many fans reaching for something so weak.

I think its safe to say that we all hate seeing our team win on some technicality.

[samikeyp]

There's no way they would call that in a situation like that, ever. Frankly I'd be embarrassed for the nba if they did, you don't want to win like that

Agreed. The Spurs should have never let it get to that point to begin with. Sacto earned Game 3. The Spurs need to go get Game 4.

[SuperManu!!!]

I saw bibby breathing near the rim!!! THat must be offensive goaltending!
Get over it, Manu and Pop fucked up the last play, the only decent player of the night was duncan

[FreshPrince22]

If they called THAT, it would officially be the lamest call of all time.

[Kori Ellis]

If they called THAT, it would officially be the lamest call of all time.

I think everyone agrees (except maybe the thread starter).

[picnroll]

Weak.

But unlike Adelman and the pick what are the chances Pop would mention it? Less than zero?

[LEONARD]

Look, I'm not giving an excuse for the shit play, nor am I stating all the obvious errors that the refs had. All I'm really interested to know how much money the Maloof Brothers paid the refs, because although ALL THREE refs were supposed to look at the shot and no one saw (or no one chose to see) the goaltend, they had (by NBA rules) to watch the replay. Fucking assholes they still didnt call it!!.
Did the Spurs deserve to win? NO
Should they have won? Yes

Yea, they must've paid them...

24 fouls on the Spurs
24 fouls on the Kings

What an injustice... :smokin

[FreshPrince22]

Weak.

But unlike Adelman and the pick what are the chances Pop would mention it? Less than zero?

Well, the pick actually had an effect on the game. Still not something you should complain about considering there is no possible way to change the result, but it's a different situation.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

I like you guys. Some dumbshit starts a thread like this and you all call him on his bullshit. I only wish more King's fans were like this.

[Spurs Dynasty]

Whether he touched the net or tried to completely pull it down ... doesnt matter. Spurs played like crap (except for TD) and blew the game in the last 10 seconds. The Kings outplayed the Spurs and deserved the game.

Now, let it go and let the Spurs beat the crap out of them in Game 4.

[picnroll]

Well, the pick actually had an effect on the game. Still not something you should complain about considering there is no possible way to change the result, but it's a different situation.

Horse shit. Even if Duncan moved Bibby wouldn't have gotten close to Barry to effect the shot. Mavs and Pistons fans seem desperate making up fantasy reasons why the Spurs shouldn't advance.

[picnroll]

I like you guys. Some dumbshit starts a thread like this and you all call him on his bullshit. I only wish more King's fans were like this.
Not to mention the Kings' coach.

[exstatic]

Yea, they must've paid them...

24 fouls on the Spurs
24 fouls on the Kings

What an injustice... :smokin
Another dumbass who thinks all fouls are equal. The number you should be looking at is FTA: 33 Sacto 22 SA. There were at least two CLEAR cases of continuation for Duncan in the 4th where he was making his move and never put the ball down after the whistle, and that dumbfuck Salvatore called on the floor fouls. The disparity in regulation in game 2 (+8 ___ramento) was almost as large, evening out in OT. Copngratulations, ___ramento: if you get a double digit or near double digit disparity at the FT line, you can hang. Good job.

[v2freak]

I saw bibby breathing near the rim!!! THat must be offensive goaltending!
Get over it, Manu and Pop fucked up the last play, the only decent player of the night was duncan

Finley...


Yea, they must've paid them...

24 fouls on the Spurs
24 fouls on the Kings

What an injustice... :smokin

Let's say there is a game in which both teams get 20 fouls. Wouldn't you say there's a huge difference between 1 team picking up 5 fouls a quarter and the other team getting all 20 in one quarter? Obviously this is exaggerated, but hopefully you get my point. The Spurs were in the freaking penalty by the 8 minute mark of the FOURTH QUARTER.

And anyway, going by your logic, the Spurs got a lot less FTAs. In a game decided by 1 point, this makes a huge difference.

[Mixability]

Game 2: Duncan's screen was illegal, blah, blah, blah
Game 3: Bibby touched net, it was interference, blah, blah, blah

Either or both of these statements might be true, but fans need to get over the calls and non-calls. Somethings are subjective, somethings are just missed. That's just basketball.

:tu

some fans just need to realize, THE GAMES OVER, move on. Thats why its a 7 game series, the best team always prevails. What are we expected to do, submit a plea to the league to review a non-call on a offensive goaltending? :rolleyes

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Another dumbass who thinks all fouls are equal. The number you should be looking at is FTA: 33 Sacto 22 SA. There were at least two CLEAR cases of continuation for Duncan in the 4th where he was making his move and never put the ball down after the whistle, and that dumbfuck Salvatore called on the floor fouls. The disparity in regulation in game 2 (+8 ___ramento) was almost as large, evening out in OT. Copngratulations, ___ramento: if you get a double digit or near double digit disparity at the FT line, you can hang. Good job.
Why so much complaining?

Sacramento was taking it to the hoop in games 2 and 3. San Antonio was not. Simply look at the points in the paint those two games.

[exstatic]

Why so much complaining?

Sacramento was taking it to the hoop in games 2 and 3. San Antonio was not. Simply look at the points in the paint those two games.

Because I want to win every playoff game against obviously inferior competition. I hate losing to a crap team like ___ramento.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Because I want to win every playoff game against obviously inferior competition. I hate losing to a crap team like ___ramento. :madrun


You complain about SAC getting more FTA's. I tell you it is because they drove to the hoop more. You don't acknowledge that and come back with this shit? Next.

[exstatic]

Tim Duncan operates in the paint. Manu Ginobili operates in the paint. Fucking Bibby is the jumpshooting queen of all time and he has more FTA than Duncan does in the series. That's fucked up.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Tim Duncan operates in the paint. Manu Ginobili operates in the paint. Fucking Bibby is the jumpshooting queen of all time and he has more FTA than Duncan does in the series. That's fucked up.
Duncan hasn't been operating like he normally does. Ginobli is a flopper. Stop bitching. You are up 2-1 in the series.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

and memo to the league........when did traveling become legal.....lebron must have gotten a diferrent rule book when he joined the league
Oh please. Manu and Parker both travel their fair share and are never whistled.

[snowboarder]

No Kings fan on this board were screaming about the moving screen. I simply brought it up to counter this so called goaltending. Both would have been ticky tack if called, and I'm glad they weren't called.

On the kings forums they were

but seriously im tired of the complaining about losing, just STFU and get over it

[KingsFanWithoutName]

On the kings forums they were

but seriously im tired of the complaining about losing, just STFU and get over it
I know. I've been avoiding a certain board as of late.

[exstatic]

Duncan hasn't been operating like he normally does. Ginobli is a flopper. Stop bitching. You are up 2-1 in the series.
Duncan operated pretty normally in game 3. Bibby still got more FTAs.

Smells like a fish market.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Duncan operated pretty normally in game 3. Bibby still got more FTAs.

Smells like a fish market.Did it ever occur to you that maybe Duncan wasn't fouled?

Anyways, I will not have access to a computer on Sunday or Monday, got a college golf match to play in. Don't want people to think I disappeared if the Kings lose game 4.

[Kori Ellis]

if they wanted to extend a seires or let a home team win, or had an interest in letting a certain team win...........they would have called it...............they have done it before A LOT OF TIMES.


Name a time they called interference on a player touching the net on a play that meant something in a playoff game.

[v2freak]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe Duncan wasn't fouled?

Anyways, I will not have access to a computer on Sunday or Monday, got a college golf match to play in. Don't want people to think I disappeared if the Kings lose game 4.

Did it occur to you that maybe he was being fouled?

[samikeyp]

Flash....half the league travels and has for decades. Hell....even Jordan traveled. Its rarely called especially on stars and even less in the playoffs. The refs cannot call every single infraction that happens in an NBA game...they would go on for 4 hours.

[Spurs Dynasty]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe Duncan wasn't fouled?

Anyways, I will not have access to a computer on Sunday or Monday, got a college golf match to play in. Don't want people to think I disappeared if the Kings lose game 4.

IF !??? :lol

[GO SPurs Go]

Ok, all of you basically say that I should get over it, blah blah blah. Let me ask you this, flash back to game five Western Conference second round, Spurs vs. Lakers, 2004. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE in this forum said "get over it". Actually, if I remember correctly, Pop even pentitioned the call for some BS reason. Granted, the series was tied 2-2 and the teams were much more even than SA and SAC today, but still, no coach, or fan for that matter should ever back down from such an obvious error. Will Fucking Stern do something about this? NO. But at least the refs will publicly be humiliated. By the way, if you touch the net its goaltending, anyone can argue that it altered the shot, and yes, its in the rulebook, I checked.
Believe me, if Sacto wins the series (odds of about 1 to 1 million), all of you "get over it" people are gonna be crying your fucking pussies off about that noncall.

[Obstructed_View]

and yes, its in the rulebook, I checked.

Here's the entire entry on goaltending. If you can find the word "NET" in there, let alone anything that applies you win the dick-flavored cookie.


Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.
e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.
h. Touch the ball at any time with a hand which is through the basket ring.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.
PENALTY: If the violation is at the opponent's basket, the offended team is awarded two points, if the attempt is from the two point zone and three points if it is from the three point zone. The crediting of the score and subsequent procedure is the same as if the awarded score has resulted from the ball having gone through the basket, except that the official shall hand the ball to a player of the team entitled to the throw-in. If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.

[NCaliSpurs]

If there is any bitching, it shouldn't be that Bibby tugged on the net, it should be that he smacked the hell out of Manu on his way to the basket.

Whatever. It still took a lucky ass bounce, and a lucky ass shot over Tim "6 Blocks" Duncan.

This series was over when Duncan decided the Spurs were his team again.

[GO SPurs Go]

Actually you piece of dickshit, you happened to accidentally miss one...... How sad.. See rule No. i
RULE NO. 11
BASKET INTERFERENCE—
GOALTENDING
Section I—A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring
when the ball is using the basket ring as
its lower base or hang on the rim while
the ball is passing through.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own
basket has his hand legally in contact
with the ball, it is not a violation if his
contact with the ball continues after the
ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such
action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the
basket ring and within the imaginary
cylinder.
c. During a field goal attempt, touch a
ball after it has touched any part of the
backboard above ring level, whether the
ball is considered on its upward or
downward flight.
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a
ball after it has touched the backboard
below the ring level and while the ball is
on its upward flight.
e. Trap the ball against the face of the
backboard after it has been released.
(To be a trapped ball, three elements
must exist simultaneously.The hand, the
ball and the backboard must all occur at
the same time.A batted ball against the
backboard is not a trapped ball.)
f. Touch any live ball from within the
playing area that is on its downward
flight with an opportunity to score.This
is considered to be a “field goal
attempt” or trying for a goal.
g. Touch the ball at any time with a
hand which is through the basket ring.
h.Vibrate the rim, net or backboard so
as to cause the ball to make an
unnatural bounce.
i. Touch the rim, net or ball while the
ball is in the net preventing it from
clearing the basket.
PENALTY: If the violation is at the
opponent’s basket, the offended team is
awarded two points, if the attempt is
from the two point zone and three
points if it is from the three point zone.
The crediting of the score and subsequent
procedure is the same as if the
awarded score has resulted from the
ball having gone through the basket,
except that the official shall hand the
ball to a player of the team entitled to
the throw-in. If the violation is at a
team’s own basket, no points can be
scored and the ball is awarded to the
offended team at the free throw line
105
extended on either sideline. If there is a
violation by both teams, play shall be
resumed by a jump ball between any
two opponents at the center circle.
toward the hoop for the official to
discontinue his three second count. If he
attempts to back the defensive player
down, attempting to secure a better
position in relation to the basket,
119
offensive three seconds or an offensive
foul must be called. If he passes off and
immediately makes a move out of the
lane, there should be no whistle.

[LEONARD]

Another dumbass who thinks all fouls are equal. The number you should be looking at is FTA: 33 Sacto 22 SA. There were at least two CLEAR cases of continuation for Duncan in the 4th where he was making his move and never put the ball down after the whistle, and that dumbfuck Salvatore called on the floor fouls. The disparity in regulation in game 2 (+8 ___ramento) was almost as large, evening out in OT. Copngratulations, ___ramento: if you get a double digit or near double digit disparity at the FT line, you can hang. Good job.

Neither # of fouls nor # of FT's tells the story as far as the officials favoring either team (or appearing to favor either team). But # of FT's is MUCH more relevant than # of FT's. There's too many variables involved in getting from # of fouls to # of FT's...

What if one team is driving to the basket more?
What if one team is smarter about spreading their fouls out over 4 quarters and staying out of the bonus as much as possible?
What if one team is ahead at the end and gets multiple FT attempts during the last minute of the game?

Example (exaggerated)
Team A commits 16 fouls, all non-shooting fouls, 4 per quarter. Team B gets ZERO FT's.
Team B commits 10 fouls, all shooting fouls. Team A gets 20 FT's.

Looking at the box score YOU would think that Team B got jobbed by the officials, right??

Game 4:
Kings - called for 25 PF's
Spurs - called for 21 PF's
Both got 27 FT's, but the Spurs made 3 less.

Surely Spurs fans won't whine about officiating in this game too???

Good luck against ___ramento in Game 5!!

Sincerely,
"dumbass"

[KingsFanWithoutName]

IF !??? :lol :lol I'm back. And my team won the Southern California Regionals. :elephant