Bear Hug defense

[whottt]

No...there are a bunch of us that understand the game of basketball. And our numbers grow every time AJ opens his mouth. Keep the faith! The major issue is that AJ fans control all the media outlets in SA....Don Harris' lips are so attatched to AJ's butt it isn't even funny....

[A-Train]

Clearly AJ sucked so bad in SA. He didn't know a thing about leading a team. That 'coach on the floor' line that Pop often used was just to make him feel good. The Mavs, the Dallas Mavericks are a top 10 NBA defensive unit and you guys still want to pretend that AJ meant nothing to this team's first championship run. Stick to football or whatever sport you really know.

[mabber]

Clearly AJ sucked so bad in SA. He didn't know a thing about leading a team. That 'coach on the floor' line that Pop often used was just to make him feel good. The Mavs, the Dallas Mavericks are a top 10 NBA defensive unit and you guys still want to pretend that AJ meant nothing to this team's first championship run. Stick to football or whatever sport you really know.

Well said!

[whottt]

You know what I just realized? If the NBA had never introduced the three-point line, AJ would be whottt's favorite player of all time.



False, not being 6, or living in a place where they didn't show Spurs games, when he played for the Spurs, and actually getting to see that J in action...I'd still feel the same way.

But the 3 point stat, crystalizes exactly why he hurt this team, well that and the repeated bleeding ass he was given defensively by any PG he was matched up against...and the fact that he couldn't hit FT's, or get to the FT line...

[whottt]

Clearly AJ sucked so bad in SA. He didn't know a thing about leading a team.


Damn even I won't be that harsh on AJ...he lead us to the worst record in Team History and Tim Duncan, the only year the Spurs were truly his team. Don't be a hater.





That 'coach on the floor' line that Pop often used was just to make him feel good.

No, I think calling him a coach on the floor is a pretty accurate description of his play...


Pop also said he couldn't stop anyone 1 on 1...and that is also true. Don't let the smile fool you.




The Mavs, the Dallas Mavericks are a top 10 NBA defensive unit and you guys still want to pretend that AJ meant nothing to this team's first championship run.

He was the weakest link.



Stick to football or whatever sport you really know.


My my, for such a level headed fan who lectures on what people should and shouldn't take personally and finds himself qualified to judge their sanity...you sure do seem full of shit right about now.


Lame points all the way around...Pop coached us to the #1 defense, that doesn't mean I wanted to see his ass on the court.

[BigD1]

I think that AJ was saying it to bitch about the officiating without directly bitching (otherwise he'd get fined).I think it was a smart tactical move on AJ's part. These new set of refs tonight will be looking out for Bowen's defense and I bet some how Dirk gets more than 20 pts tonight. I really don't think that AJ was trying to deliberately disrespect Bowen. He was apolegetic in later comments and basically blamed himself for poor play calling.

[BigD1]

Better watch out, you'll get called a fucking ingrate like I did. And your point about the so-called game-winner in '99 is something that has always rankled with me as well. If Avery hadn't hit that shot, the odds are mighty high that someone else would have in the minute that was left, or that we would have beaten them the next game, or the next. I just don't buy it that the shot was anything special. But then, I'm not an AJ-worshipper. If the Spurs retire his jersey, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.AJ did more than just hit that "shot". He was the leader on and off the court for that team. Yes, even more so than David. His vocal display of motivation, confidence and reassurance after losses should never be overlooked.

[foodie2]

AJ did more than just hit that "shot". He was the leader on and off the court for that team. Yes, even more so than David. His vocal display of motivation, confidence and reassurance after losses should never be overlooked.

Aren't you a Mavericks fan? What in-depth knowledge do you have of AJ's so-called leadership abilities?

[Obstructed_View]

AJ did more than just hit that "shot". He was the leader on and off the court for that team. Yes, even more so than David. His vocal display of motivation, confidence and reassurance after losses should never be overlooked.
Actually, you just described Mario Elie.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think it was a smart tactical move on AJ's part. These new set of refs tonight will be looking out for Bowen's defense and I bet some how Dirk gets more than 20 pts tonight. I really don't think that AJ was trying to deliberately disrespect Bowen. He was apolegetic in later comments and basically blamed himself for poor play calling.

Of course it's a smart tactical move -- but it's also complete garbage that everyone seems to believe that NBA officials can be so easily influenced. Rather than asking officials to bail out your star, why not find ways to help your star make plays.

Of course, when you can appear to do both, I guess it ups that genius quotient a bit more.

[mabber]

Of course it's a smart tactical move -- but it's also complete garbage that everyone seems to believe that NBA officials can be so easily influenced. Rather than asking officials to bail out your star, why not find ways to help your star make plays.

Of course, when you can appear to do both, I guess it ups that genius quotient a bit more.

Like him or not, Phil Jackson has done this his entire coaching career. He seems to think it can influence officials to some degree.

[whottt]

And Phil Jackson is universally despised...

[FromWayDowntown]

Like him or not, Phil Jackson has done this his entire coaching career. He seems to think it can influence officials to some degree.

Of course I'm aware of that; I've seen it first-hand in 4 different series.

And, of course, that doesn't mean I don't despise the tactic; it only furthers my appreciation for the fact that Gregg Popovich doesn't resort to using it.

[SpursWoman]

I agree that AJ is now in the same boat as Ray Allen & George Karl. The whining little bitch was supposed to have more class than this. Guess you can only hang around with Cuban for so long till you act just like him. Fuck AJ & Cuban!!! :flipoff.




Well, you know what they say. "Lay with dogs and you'll get fleas". :spin :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

The utility of tactics like that, I suspect, is part of the reason that so many seem to think that NBA officials are corrupt.

I don't buy it, but then again, I think it's always weak to complain about officiating.

[A-Train]

Actually, you just described Mario Elie.


Revisionist history at its finest.

Spurs fans are a rare breed. Once a player leaves the team, regardless of how, then he is shit. He contributed nothing when he was a Spur. He was overrated. Our current Spurs are so much better, etc. SA is such a homerific orgy sometimes.

[LEONARD]

.

Well, you know what they say. "Lay with dogs and you'll get fleas". :spin :lol

I'll ask again...someone direct me to Avery's whining...

I've heard one statement about the "bearhug defense" and it didn't sound like whining to me...maybe I missed something that would've caused this bourd to turn on AJ???

[timvp]

I'll let whottt spew his hatred during this series.

F AJ.

:smokin

[A-Train]

Man, so fucking what if AJ is trying to draw attention to Bowen's D to influence the refs? You know AJ would kill to have a Bruce Bowen on his team, much like George Karl wouldn't have had a problem if Manu was suiting up for his Nuggets. It's a part of the game, deal with it.

[ShoogarBear]

Spurs fans are a rare breed. Once a player leaves the team, regardless of how, then he is shit. He contributed nothing when he was a Spur. He was overrated. Our current Spurs are so much better, etc. SA is such a homerific orgy sometimes.
Yeah, just think what would have happend if we had signed C-Webb and Robinson had gone to the Knicks.

DRob would have been that backstabbing traitor whose greed drove him to NYC.

[SpursWoman]

I'll ask again...someone direct me to Avery's whining...

I've heard one statement about the "bearhug defense" and it didn't sound like whining to me...maybe I missed something that would've caused this bourd to turn on AJ???


Are you talking to me, or just in general (no pun intended)? Because I don't hate AJ ... was just being a smartass. :lol

[LEONARD]

Are you talking to me, or just in general (no pun intended). Because I don't hate AJ ... was just being a smartass. :lol

In general...I've seen and heard this...

"It's what you call bear-hug defense," Johnson said. "That's the new NBA rule. I've got to try to simulate a drill to help him in what you call that bear-hug defense."

Is that ALL that has caused all the talk about AJ whining???

[SpursWoman]

No, a lot of that runs waaaay more deeply than what has happened recently. This is a pretty old (yet still entertaining) argument. :lol

[ShoogarBear]

Is that ALL that has caused all the talk about AJ whining???

No, this is about the fact that if we had had Damon Stoudemire instead of AJ at the point, David Robinson would have six more championships.

[timvp]

Yeah, just think what would have happend if we had signed C-Webb and Robinson had gone to the Knicks.

DRob would have been that backstabbing traitor whose greed drove him to NYC.

Must ... not ... laugh ... at .... whottt ... getting .... owned.

[whottt]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/playoffs/news/1999/06/18/fcp_elie/


Posted: Friday June 18, 1999

Elie became a free-agent this off-season, Johnson suggested to the Spurs that they go after his friend.

They did -- and the Spurs got off to a 6-8 start.

That's when Elie stepped in.

"I challenged our big guys. I told them 'As they go, we go,'" Elie said. "I said 'You guys are not playing up to your capabilities.' I said what I said. And it was the truth."

At one point, center David Robinson asked Johnson why Elie was so mad. He even wondered whether Elie was really happy in San Antonio.

Johnson told Robinson that Elie was hacked off because Robinson wasn't playing well.

"Avery told him, just like that," Elie said. "But we turned it around because of them [Robinson and Tim Duncan]. Tim took it to another level, and Dave stepped back and became the second man behind Tim."

Since the slow start, the Spurs have won 43 of their last 49 -- including 11 straight in the playoffs. MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THE TEAM, ELIE IS CREDITED WITH TURNING THE PREVIOUSLY "SOFT" SPURS INTO THE POWER THAT THEY ARE.


There are those that actually followed the team back then...and then are those that believe Don Harris and NBA ass kissing er...fluff pieces.


True Spur fan remembers it happening...True Spur remember just about everybody in SA and on the Spurs coming down on Elie when he called the team soft at 6-8...It was in the Express News and Elie took all the Heat...Then he went out and started playing tough azz D and nailing daggers any time the team started to lose confidence.

The transformation of the Spurs from perennial nice guys to mentally tough happened the year Elie came here...and more importantly, the demarcation point coincides exactly with Elie blasting the team at the 6-8 point of the season.

And Pop still uses Elies speech once per season to this day.

Mario Elie will never get the credit he deserves for his role in the Spurs transformation...but make no mistake about it, he was the guy that taught the Spurs what it took to win a championship...and how to back it up. Exactly where was AJ supposed to have gotten that experience from? Getting his head stomped in by Sam Cassell?

[whottt]

No, this is about the fact that if we had had Damon Stoudemire instead of AJ at the point, David Robinson would have six more championships.

True. He would.

[A-Train]

Elie merely reinforced what AJ had been saying. BFD.

[timvp]

We get it.

Coyote > Mario Elie > DRob > Sean Michaels > > Elliott > AJ

[timvp]

True. He would.

And that, ladies and gentleman, should tell you how much haterade whottt consumes on a daily basis.

[ShoogarBear]

I haven't seen anyone ever try to take props away from Mario Elie.

Of course, you ignore the fact that Elie was pissed because Robinson was playing too soft.

[whottt]

Yeah, just think what would have happend if we had signed C-Webb and Robinson had gone to the Knicks.

DRob would have been that backstabbing traitor whose greed drove him to NYC.


Um false...that would probably have been the only thing that could get me to stop being a Spur fan...

But I wonder how many of you were thinking it would be a good idea to replace the Admiral with CWebb....GhostWriter...are you here?

[A-Train]

AJ needed someone to back him up since the team's two most talented players shunned the team leadership role. This is why AJ was so important. On most title teams the franchise player is also the team leader. Lakers w/Magic, Bulls w/MJ, Celtics w/Bird. Not so with the Spurs.

[ShoogarBear]

Um false...that would probably have been the only thing that could get me to stop being a Spur fan...


In all honesty, I recognized that before I posted it. But it was much more fun to go for the one-liner.

EDIT: However, what I said is probably accurate for quite a few other posters here.

[whottt]

I haven't seen anyone ever try to take props away from Mario Elie.


Well I can show you it being done about 30 times in this thread...every time someone claims it was Avery Johnson that lead us to that title.




Of course, you ignore the fact that Elie was pissed because Robinson was playing too soft.


Oh I don't ignore it...Difference between Mario Elie and Avery Johnson is that Mario Ele went out and backed it up and hit his fucking open shots, again and again and again, the bigger the shot, the truer it flew. He may not have made another shot for an entire game...but he hit those daggers.


And furthermore...Mario Elie defends David Robinson more than any Spur player, including Elliott and Avery, ever has.

[A-Train]

Well I can show you it being done about 30 times in this thread...every time someone claims it was Avery Johnson that lead us to that title.

No you fucking tard, people claim that AJ had a siginficant role in winning that title and assmunches like you who couldn't play, coach or scout their way out of a wet paper bag are unable to grasp that.





Oh I don't ignore it...Difference between Mario Elie and Avery Johnson is that Mario Ele went out and backed it up and hit his fucking open shots, again and again and again, the bigger the shot, the truer it flew. He may not have made another shot for an entire game...but he hit those daggers.


And furthermore...Mario Elie defends David Robinson more than any Spur player, including Elliott and Avery, ever has.


Funny, especially considering that ME had a hand in the two most serious playoff punkings that David Robinson's soft ass play led to.

[whottt]

Geez Atrain...don't take it so seriously man. What are you? Insane.

Go have nice cup of AJ's jizz and put on your Mav's shirt...you'll feel better.

[whottt]

Whew, the nutcases are getting a little rowdy around here...

Ok Shoogar where were we...


Notice...I don't hate Mario Elie...even though he didn't finish his career here, left us for another team as an assistant coach and has a rather abrasive personality...and was on the wrong end of a Spurs ass kicking.

Point disproved.

[A-Train]

Funny, I take it seriously in one thread. You take it seriously for years. You are the King of Grudges. I bet you're still pissed off at Santa Ana, Mr. Puro San Antonio.

[ShoogarBear]

Notice...I don't hate Mario Elie...even though he didn't finish his career here, left us for another team as an assistant coach and has a rather abrasive personality...and was on the wrong end of a Spurs ass kicking.

Point disproved.

That's because Elie came and DRob got off the schnod. so you associate him only with the championship.

If Elie had suffered here for 6-7 years of futility prior to Duncan's arriving, he'd be in the same hatebin for you along with AJ.

[whottt]

That's because Elie came and DRob got off the schnod. so you associate him only with the championship.

If Elie had suffered here for 6-7 years of futility prior to Duncan's arriving, he'd be in the same hatebin for you along with AJ.

IF my aunt was my uncle she wouldn't bump her ass when she jumps...or some shit like that.

If Hedo had hadn't been a choker I wouldn't hate his worthless azz either.

Touch it...I dare you.


And furthermore...

If Manu was a choker I wouldn't like him near as much as I do.


Congrats, you found me out...I don't like players that suck and I like ones that don't. Scuse me while I hide my head in shame.

[A-Train]

IF my aunt was my uncle she wouldn't bump her ass when she jumps...or some shit like that.

If Hedo had hadn't been a choker I wouldn't hate his worthless azz either.

Touch it...I dare you.


And furthermore...

If Manu was a choker I wouldn't like him near as much as I do.


Congrats, you found me out...I don't like players that suck and I like ones that don't. Scuse me while I hide my head in shame.


When did AJ "choke" in that playoff run? What a stupid fucking argument. Sniff freon much?

[Obstructed_View]

Revisionist history at its finest.

Spurs fans are a rare breed. Once a player leaves the team, regardless of how, then he is shit. He contributed nothing when he was a Spur. He was overrated. Our current Spurs are so much better, etc. SA is such a homerific orgy sometimes.
Strangely, you just described yourself. If you think Mario Elie wasn't all a bigger factor, if nothing else, in the leadership and toughness categories to the '99 title than AJ, you are way beyond help. I never said any of the things you ascribe above. I like AJ. I'm not going to publicly suck his dick on the message boards as any shred of my credibility dissolves. You are welcome to do what you like.

[ShoogarBear]

IF my aunt was my uncle she wouldn't bump her ass when she jumps...or some shit like that.

If Hedo had hadn't been a choker I wouldn't hate his worthless azz either.

Touch it...I dare you.


And furthermore...

If Manu was a choker I wouldn't like him near as much as I do.


Congrats, you found me out...I don't like players that suck and I like ones that don't. Scuse me while I hide my head in shame.

You miss my point, which was that if Elie had been here before TD the Spurs still wouldn't have had any championships. Does that make him a choker?

[A-Train]

Elie put AJ's way over the top on that team. That team had way too few hardasses like AJ and Elie and too many great talent/soft bitch types.

[whottt]

Del Negro>Elie


Depends on if he(Elie) had hit the shots AJ didn't while Drob was being double teamed.

[whottt]

On second thought scratch that...Mario could defend. He gets a free pass because he could actually do sometrhing on the court to contribute to the win, other than nutride and run his mouth.

Ironically...Elie wasn't a very good 3 shooter until Rudy T told him to work on it...Amzing what a little effort can do towards producing a championship.

[A-Train]

Depends on if he(Elie) had hit the shots AJ didn't while Drob was being double teamed.


Who do you think was setting up DRob and his weak post game with scoring opportunities every night? Maybe if DRob had worked a little harder on a low post move...

[A-Train]

On second thought scratch that...Mario could defend. He gets a free pass because he could actually do sometrhing on the court to contribute to the win, other than nutride and run his mouth.

Ironically...Elie wasn't a very good 3 shooter until Rudy T told him to work on it...Amzing what a little effort can do towards producing a championship.


...or a #1 pick with a post game and other players willing to be vocal leaders.

[whottt]

Elie put AJ's way over the top on that team. That team had way too few hardasses like AJ and Elie and too many great talent/soft bitch types.


Mario backed it up, AJ didn't. AJ...didn't.

AJ talked tough, but was softer and got busted on his defensive asignment more than any guy on the team, and he was always the one being dared to shoot...

I mean you aren't gojng to now try and argue that AJ's shot feared are you?

Watch the playoffs sometime...watch how teams defend in the playoffs...




Anyone can get out there and run their mouth without actually nutting up when they are left wide open for their entire career...That doesn't make them hard, that doesn't make them a leader...that makes them a mouth.

But hey, you and Pop already said it better than I ever could...

AJ was a coach on the court. Describes his play to a T.

[A-Train]

Mario backed it up, AJ didn't. AJ...didn't.

AJ talked tough, but was softer and got busted on his defensive asignment more than any guy on the team,

Softer? AJ didn't take shit from anyone.




and he was always the one being dared to shoot...


...I seem to recall him making his shots.




I mean you aren't gojng to now try and argue that AJ's shot feared are you?

Watch the playoffs sometime...watch how teams defend in the playoffs...


How did AJ shoot in that 15-2 playoff run?




Anyone can get out there and run their mouth without actually nutting up when they are left wide open for their entire career...That doesn't make them hard, that doesn't make them a leader...that makes them a mouth.


Yeah, AJ never nutted up and knocked down shots.




But hey, you and Pop already said it better than I ever could...

AJ was a coach on the court. Describes his play to a T.


Yeah, he knew the game better than any other player on the team. Which, of course, is rather important at the 1 spot. That's not a liability, except in your world.

[timvp]

Ironically...Elie wasn't a very good 3 shooter until Rudy T told him to work on it

You mean Chris Mullin?

You'd think whottt would have read up a little on Elie, wouldn't you?

[whottt]

Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro > Manu and Tony


Um no...


Tell you what...you go get all the guys in NBA history that could run their mouths but couldn't hit a J...hell you can get all the PG's who started on NBA champions that only hit one playoff 3 pointer in their 20 year career(It's a short list of one by the way)...

And I'll take every bigman that ever was ever stuck with the soft label because he had shitty guards. Including Wilt.....well play them...then we'll see who knows what the hell they are talking about.

[A-Train]

Funny you mention Tony Parker and then laud the importance of the three-point shot.

[whottt]

Softer? AJ didn't take shit from anyone.

You mean other than Sam Cassell, John Stockton, Derek Fisher and every other Daddy he ever had in the post season.





I seem to recall him making his shots.

You recall incorrectly.





How did AJ shoot in that 15-2 playoff run?

From 3? Not all...as per usual.

At last...he made one 13 foot shot when he had two MVP bigmen teamed up in the paint and some guys bombing clutch threes.

What a man.





Yeah, AJ never nutted up and knocked down shots.

You are right...it was alwasy AJ that was drawing the double teams while Drob choked wide open 13 footers.

AJ's jizz is toxic.






Yeah, he knew the game better than any other player on the team. Which, of course, is rather important at the 1 spot. That's not a liability, except in your world.

Um...John Wooden knows the game too...that doesn't mean I want to see his ass out there running the point. And if he was and he was out there calling everyone els soft I think he was nothing but mouth too...I'd think he needs to be a coach and get off th fucking court.

[whottt]

Funny you mention Tony Parker and then laud the importance of the three-point shot.


Um...I can mention Nazr Mohammed and own AJ's ass when it comes to playoff 3 point shooting.

[A-Train]

You mean other than Sam Cassell, John Stockton, Derek Fisher and every other Daddy he ever had in the post season.

By that logic, Fisher was TP's daddy in '04. Stockton's a hall of famer and I seem to recall a certain '95 MVP whose ass was kicked regularly by Stockton's teammate.

Anyways, I never said AJ was a Hall of Famer or an All-Star.




You recall incorrectly.


Nope.




From 3? Not all...as per usual.

At last...he made one 13 foot shot when he had two MVP bigmen teamed up in the paint and some guys bombing clutch threes.

What a man.

What the fuck does it matter if the J was from 20 or 23 feet?





You are right...it was alwasy AJ that was drawing the double teams while Drob choked wide open 13 footers.

AJ's jizz is toxic.

Nah, AJ was knocking down the shots off TD's double teams.





Um...John Wooden knows the game too...that doesn't mean I want to see his ass out there running the point. And if he was and he was out there calling everyone els soft I think he was nothing but mouth too...I'd think he needs to be a coach and get off th fucking court.

Lame. AJ was one of the best point guards in the game when it came to running an offense and setting guys up and a hell of an athlete.

Fans like you don't deserve the Spurs.

[A-Train]

Um...I can mention Nazr Mohammed and own AJ's ass when it comes to playoff 3 point shooting.


That's how important that stat is.

Anyways, TP just had his best season by playing the game within 18 feet. I guess he should've been jacking up 3s instead of driving and attacking or dishing.

Only a cracksmoker would worry about the 3 point shot at the 1 spot.

[whottt]

By that logic, Fisher was TP's daddy in '04.

You are kidding right? Based on what?



Stockton's a hall of famer and I seem to recall a certain '95 MVP who's ass was kicked regularly by Stockton's teammate.

Pssst Ace...how has Duncan faired against Malone in the playoffs?


Hint...he needs outside shooting too.





Anyways, I never said AJ was a Hall of Famer or an All-Star.

No, what you said was worse...You said he lead us to our first title.










What the fuck does it matter if the J was from 20 or 23 feet?

And you tell me I don't understand playoff ball...








Lame. AJ was one of the best point guards in the game when it came to running an offense and setting guys up and a hell of an athlete.

um what AJ was, when he wasn't being waived, was a 2nd or 3rd stringer any time he wasn't on a team with David Robinson or Tim Duncan, ...and sometimes even when he was.


Fans like you don't deserve the Spurs.

Fans like you don't deserve David Robinson...

You deserve...Avery Johnson as your best player...for all eternity and OT.

You deserve.....the 96-97 Spurs in all their tough, best in the league, know the game, glory.

[whottt]

That's how important that stat is.



Anyways, TP just had his best season by playing the game within 18 feet. I guess he should've been jacking up 3s instead of driving and attacking or dishing.

TP doubled AJ's career 3 point total like 2 games ago...in like one half...beating the buzzer. And yes, it was important.


Only a cracksmoker would worry about the 3 point shot at the 1 spot.

And only a newbie would think AJ had a respectable jumpshot during his career, from any range, or that he took it veryh often even wehn left open...Stop embarrasing yourself and stick to the know the game argument...

[timvp]

You mean Chris Mullin?

You'd think whottt would have read up a little on Elie, wouldn't you?

Bump

[whottt]

Bump


And you'd think TimVP would have seen the irony when he spent all of last season ripping Brent Barry for not taking(what TimVP felt) were wide open shots.

He didn't.

[A-Train]

TP doubled AJ's career 3 point total like 2 games ago...in like one half...beating the buzzer. And yes, it was important.



It's not a necessity. TP's proven so this season.




And only a newbie would think AJ had a respectable jumpshot during his career, from any range, or that he took it veryh often even wehn left open...Stop embarrasing yourself and stick to the know the game argument...

He did in '99. If you don't believe so, you have a bizarre vendetta against AJ.

[timvp]

And you'd think TimVP would have seen the irony when he spent all of last season ripping Brent Barry for not taking(what TimVP felt) were wide open shots.

He didn't.

Huh?

And talking about Brent Barry, your 3-point loving azz was saying that Spurs fans were wrong to expect more out of him and how Barry was playing like he always did. Now that Barry is playing like he should've played last year, he just shat on all 5,000 posts you made about him last year.

This is how Barry should play. Not that passive Barry last year who was afraid to shoot.

OWNED.

[A-Train]

So when AJ played the game within 20 feet and fed the bigs and 3 point shooters that was bad, but when TP does it, it's great.

AJ was also a better distributor than TP, but I guess we shouldn't focus on point guard responsibilities when assessing talent and instead stick to whether or not a player has 3 point range.

Fans like whottt are the worst.

[whottt]

It's not a necessity. TP's proven so this season.

Um...in the playoffs on a team with a dominant big it is a necessity. And TP is being dared to shoot...and he's a hell of a lot better shooter than AJ was on his best day...he was the first day he stepped on the court. Just imagine...





He did in '99. If you don't believe so, you have a bizarre vendetta against AJ.

He really didn't, not even in 99...I guess comparitively you could say he did. About fucking time...and all it took was having two MVP bigs in the paint.

[A-Train]

Um...in the playoffs on a team with a dominant big it is a necessity. And TP is being dared to shoot...and he's a hell of a lot better shooter than AJ was on his best day...he was the first day he stepped on the court. Just imagine...

Most, if not all, of TP's jumpers in the postseason have come between the free throw line and the top of the key. Pay attention.





He really didn't, not even in 99...I guess comparitively you could say he did. About fucking time...and all it took was having two MVP bigs in the paint.

Actually, he did. Whatever AJ did to you, I hope it still hurts.

[whottt]

Huh?

And talking about Brent Barry, your 3-point loving azz was saying that Spurs fans were wrong to expect more out of him and how Barry was playing like he always did. Now that Barry is playing like he should've played last year, he just shat on all 5,000 posts you made about him last year.

That's funny...it looks to me like Brent Barry took and made more 3 pointers last year, scored more PPG...and generally had better production this year.


Todays trivia question especially for TimVP:

How many 3PA PG per 48 minutes did Barry avg last season? And how many this season?

Shat indeed.



This is how Barry should play. Not that passive Barry last year who was afraid to shoot.

OWNED.


Not owned...back it up with facts.


You can't.

[A-Train]

Barry? The bitch so good he's beaten out for a spot in the rotation again and again? And you dog people for sticking up for AJ...? You are truly the worst Spurs fan ever.

[whottt]

Most, if not all, of TP's jumpers in the postseason have come between the free throw line and the top of the key. Pay attention.


When you get old enough...go buy some tapes of Spurs Playoff games featuring the shooting wizardy of Avery Johnson...

You notice, you are the only guy in this thread claiming Avery Johnson had a good jumper...







Actually, he did. Whatever AJ did to you, I hope it still hurts.


LOL...You little Maverick you.

[zeleni]

Can anybody tell me what is wrong with bear hugs?
Bearhug defense is suffocating defense. Why is that something offensive?

AJ is a nice fellow and i think he meant no harm.

[A-Train]

AJ's jumper was solid in that postseason. If you could actually recall that or had tape you would know. But, hey, all that matters from a point guard is whether he can hit the 3, not if he can run an offense, distribute and set guys up well.

Learn the game first before you type another stroke you bitter clueless clown.

[timvp]

:lmao

Only whottt would try to argue that pre-trade Barry > post-trade Barry.

Classic.

[ShoogarBear]

That's funny...it looks to me like Brent Barry took and made more 3 pointers last year, scored more PPG...and generally had better production this year.


Sorry, but the only valid comparison is Barry post-trade deadline vs. Barry last year.

I don't have those numbers, and don't know what they would actually show, but my gestalt is that they would show a more aggressive and better shooter.

[Obstructed_View]

Sorry, but the only valid comparison is Barry post-trade deadline vs. Barry last year.

I don't have those numbers, and don't know what they would actually show, but my gestalt is that they would show a more aggressive and better shooter.
More aggressive is everything. I think I've said this before: I'm sure nobody has ever gotten on to Brent for taking too many shots. It just took his nearly being traded for him to figure that out.

[whottt]

AJ's jumper was solid in that postseason.
AJ's jumper was never solid...



If you could actually recall that or had tape you would know. But, hey, all that matters from a point guard is whether he can hit the 3, not if he can run an offense, distribute and set guys up well.

Oh yeah it takes a lot of skill to toss it into Duncan and Robinson.


Learn the game first before you type another stroke you bitter clueless clown.

DId I mention AJ sucks ass, was a scrub who couldn't hold down a second string PG on the Clippers outside of SA and is by far the shittiest PG to ever start for an NBA champion?

Bitter? What's to be bitter about? Watching AJ get dumped by the Spurs and wind up on a lottery team the next season? Watching my team bounce his ass from the playoffs? What is to be bitter about...

I'll be embarassed and sad when the Spurs retire his jersey...that's about it.


If metaphor's became true to life and Tony took a crap on AJ's head the turd would burn up in the atmosphere 2 hours before actually hitting AJ...this is how much higher up the PG Ladder Tony is than AJ.

[whottt]

:lmao

Only whottt would try to argue that pre-trade Barry > post-trade Barry.

Classic.


Check yourself...you are changing in midargument...while is the usual...I mean last year it was about heart etc...point being that if passing open J''s= no heart then AJ should be dead.


What you said here and now...
You said Barry was afraid to shoot last season and isn't now, more agressive whatever you want to call it...I asked you to back that up. You can't.

[whottt]

Sorry, but the only valid comparison is Barry post-trade deadline vs. Barry last year.

I don't have those numbers, and don't know what they would actually show, but my gestalt is that they would show a more aggressive and better shooter.


No no no...you can't do that...I can do the same thing last season...I can say look at his agressiveness early in the season before Pop started yanking him....I can say look at what he did when Duncan was injured. You can't chop it up like that...all players play better at times than other during the course of a season.




The only thing that can be proved is that Barry is shooting 3's at a better PCT...this is offset by the fact that his FT shooting now sucks and his 2 PCT isn't as good...He also doesn't average as many assists or rebounds...

But he is being used as more than just a spot up shooter now...and that's the way we started out using him last season as well....when he was shooting 60% from 3 or so...

but the bottom line is that you guys claimed he had no heart, was scared, and was a choker etc...

He wasn't.

[Obstructed_View]

You said Barry was afraid to shoot last season and isn't now, more agressive whatever you want to call it...I asked you to back that up. You can't.

Just out of curiosity, what do you want for proof if watching the games isn't enough? It's completely obvious that he passed shots up last year that he started taking after the trade deadline.

[ShoogarBear]

So wait, you're going to seriously argue that Brent Barry hasn't been a better player since the trade deadline?

[Jules]

Every time Bruce reduces star players from achieving star performances, he is criticized for his defense tactics. The reality is Nowitzki was unable to create any opportunities due to Bruce’s meticulous defense.

[sa_butta]

I hope we will use the bear trap defense tonight.

[whottt]

So wait, you're going to seriously argue that Brent Barry hasn't been a better player since the trade deadline?.

Which is it...splitting this season at the trade dead line...or last season vs this season?


I said last season VS this season...

If you want to split it up to suit your argument I can do the same thing last season...I can show you that before Pop started yanking him for Beno and Devin he was tearing it up last season.

Which way do you guys want to do it?

What I said...

This season vs last season...

He's not getting to the FT line as much per 48, he's taking the same number of 3's per 48....


Last season he made 100 3 pointers, took the most attempts on the team, and was second on makes only to Bowen, a starter, the guy he is backing up, by 3's 3's.


He sucks when they try to use him as spot up shooter...it's just that simple. You could argue that he's playing better being the second guard off the bench than he did last season...

But the bottom line is that he isn't shooting more, and he isn't getting to the line more. He's just hitting more...but he's also being used as true guard more...instead of a 3 point specialist.


I knew he was good last season...I was right. I backed it up with fact too...

You guys based your arguments on opinion last year, and you are doing the same thing now. The only thing that is better is his PCT's...par for the course for a second year shooter with the Spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

Okay, show me how to figure the stats for "gets a pass at the three point line, pump fakes and passes the ball or dribbles instead of shooting" and I'll be happy to show you numbers to back up my position. If you are unwilling to accept what you see (because it's completely fucking obvious), then there's no way to have a discussion with you.

[timvp]

whottt is amazing. I think somewhere in these posts he's trying to say that Brent Barry was better last season.

By the way, we're still waiting for you in the 22 Billion thread.

[ShoogarBear]

Well, now you're just drawing up a random strawman to suit your argument.

I never said (and I doubt anyone else did either) that Brent's season prior to the trade deadline was better than last year. So duh, yeah, if you want to include the first part of this year, he is overall having a worse year than last year. I'm sure you can always make up something that has nothing to do with what I said where you win.

My contention is that Brent since the trade deadline has played his best basketball as a Spur. I think that's a reasonable point of discussion. You can either say or agree or disagree or dodge the question entirely. It appears you've chosen the last.

[whottt]

Okay, show me how to figure the stats for "gets a pass at the three point line, pump fakes and passes the ball or dribbles instead of shooting" and I'll be happy to show you numbers to back up my position. If you are unwilling to accept what you see (because it's completely fucking obvious), then there's no way to have a discussion with you.



LMAO...you actually think having foundation for an argument called, "it's fucking obvious" is a good basis to begin with?


Here's the deal...it's fucking obvious that Tim Duncan scores more points in the paint than Tony Parker...but guess what?


It's fucking obvious that the Spurs are a boring team that struggles to score points...but guess what?

[timvp]

Wow.

The one human who doesn't think Barry is currently playing his best basketball as a Spur.

[whottt]

whottt is amazing. I think somewhere in these posts he's trying to say that Brent Barry was better last season.

By the way, we're still waiting for you in the 22 Billion thread.


Yawn...

Last year:
More PPG
More APG
More 3pm
More 3pa
More FTM
More FTA
More FTA per 48
3pm per 48 = same


This year:
Better fg%
Better 3fg%.


Anything else?

Can you even begin to justify your stance?

I know I know...it's fucking obvious is pretty much the ball all end all to arguments...but hey...you ought to be able to find something.

I think you and Obstructed are trying to say that we had a better bench last season...equally ludicrous...that has to be what you are saying if you think he got more open looks last season.

[timvp]

Since the trade, Brent Barry has played the best basketball of his time as a Spur.

True or False.

Man up and answer the question. Quit dancing.

[Obstructed_View]

LMAO...you actually think having foundation for an argument called, "it's fucking obvious" is a good basis to begin with?


Here's the deal...it's fucking obvious that Tim Duncan scores more points in the paint than Tony Parker...but guess what?


It's fucking obvious that the Spurs are a boring team that struggles to score points...but guess what?
It's fucking obvious that you are a retard. Barry's pulling the trigger now, which is the only difference in what he does for this team. You are welcome to believe whatever you want. I was just wondering why you were requesting that someone "back it up" with something that shows up on a box score, when it is clearly something that isn't recorded on a box score. I wasn't aware until now that you don't actually watch the games, or if you do, you don't understand what's going on.

[whottt]

Wow.

The one human who doesn't think Barry is currently playing his best basketball as a Spur.


Ahhh...that's not the argument between you and I....



The argument is if he is now taking more open shots, go back and read where it started..........to my thinking, he definitely got more open looks this year, because Parker is a flat out stud and Finley came off the bench too.

Yet he hasn't taken more shots per 48...he hasn't gotten to the line more per 48.


There's no argument on whether or not he's shooting at a better PCT...especially in the playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

The argument is if he is now taking more open shots, go back and read where it started..........to my thinking, he definitely got more open looks this year, because Parker is a flat out stud and Finley came off the bench too.

Yet he hasn't taken more shots per 48...he hasn't gotten to the line more per 48.


There's no argument on whether or not he's shooting at a better PCT...especially in the playoffs.
Okay, I understand now. We all agree that Barry is shooting threes at a much higher percentage since the trade deadline, and has come out of what I can assume we all agree was a shooting slump. Those of us that noticed that he was hesitant during the slump pointed it out, and have noticed that habit stopped coincidentally the same time Barry came out of his slump. I don't suppose there's anything else do to but agree to disagree on the reasons he is shooting better. I think it's the fact that he finally decided "fuck it" and started pulling the trigger, but you are under no obligation to agree with me, as I am unable to give you any statistic other than his .459 three point percentage since the trade deadline.

[whottt]

Since the trade, Brent Barry has played the best basketball of his time as a Spur.

True or False.

Man up and answer the question. Quit dancing.



Genesis of this arument:

whottt wrote:

And you'd think TimVP would have seen the irony when he spent all of last season ripping Brent Barry for not taking(what TimVP felt) were wide open shots.

He didn't.


TimVP responded:


Huh?

And talking about Brent Barry, your 3-point loving azz was saying that Spurs fans were wrong to expect more out of him and how Barry was playing like he always did. Now that Barry is playing like he should've played last year, he just shat on all 5,000 posts you made about him last year.

This is how Barry should play. Not that passive Barry last year who was afraid to shoot.

OWNED.


The dude is shooting 50% from 3....I'd say that alone qualifies as an improvement...the arguemtn between you and I is about whether or not he was a pussy who passed up open shots last year....You were wrong last year, you are wrong now.

Otherwise give me something anything...to back your point up.

I don't expect it...because you couldn't do it last year.

[whottt]

Oh and to answer your question...I'd say it's fair to say he is playing the best basketball of his Spurs career.


That's not what the argument was ever about with you and I though...

[whottt]

Okay, I understand now. We all agree that Barry is shooting threes at a much higher percentage since the trade deadline, and has come out of what I can assume we all agree was a shooting slump. Those of us that noticed that he was hesitant during the slump pointed it out, and have noticed that habit stopped coincidentally the same time Barry came out of his slump. I don't suppose there's anything else do to but agree to disagree on the reasons he is shooting better. I think it's the fact that he finally decided "fuck it" and started pulling the trigger, but you are under no obligation to agree with me, as I am unable to give you any statistic other than his .459 three point percentage since the trade deadline.


He was overly maligned last year...

Brent Barry lead the team in 2P% and Adjusted FG% last season...he was third in assists, second in 3pms, 1st in assist to TO ratio, fewest TO per 48(Bowen might have had that one)...Shot 83% from the FT line...

And what no seems to remember is he hit some huge game winning and tying shots last season.

He was the best shooter on the team in clutch situation according to 82 games.com.

And he started out red hot last season.

[Obstructed_View]

He was overly maligned last year...

Brent Barry lead the team in 2P% and Adjusted FG% last season...he was third in assists, second in 3pms, 1st in assist to TO ratio, fewest TO per 48(Bowen might have had that one)...Shot 83% from the FT line...

And what no seems to remember is he hit some huge game winning and tying shots last season.

He was the best shooter on the team in clutch situation according to 82 games.com.

And he started out red hot last season.
I agree with every single thing you just said. I personally thought he did everything well except shoot threes, and he did that very well when they were really needed. He was huge in the playoffs and was a great energy guy off the bench. I just thought he hesitated on some of his threes which would cause him to miss or not shoot at all, which hurt his percentage. Knowing he's capable of shooting 45-48 percent or better was maddening, especially in this system. I'm glad for him that he figured it out. I could swear he as much as admitted that he just decided to let it fly after nearly being traded, but maybe I imagined it. I'm on record as saying even without the consistency from the perimeter, that he earned his contract in the playoffs last year.

[timvp]

And he started out red hot last season.

Do you mean November when he shot 43% from the field and 33% on threes? Or do you mean December when he shot 36% from the field and 21% on threes?

:lol

Just quit while you are behind.

[mookie2001]

woah timvp scoffed whottt harder than lamarcus bryant

[Obstructed_View]

Do you mean November when he shot 43% from the field and 33% on threes? Or do you mean December when he shot 36% from the field and 21% on threes?

Okay, I agree with all but one thing... :lol

[ShoogarBear]

He means that hot preseason that everyone remembers.

[whottt]

Do you mean November when he shot 43% from the field and 33% on threes? Or do you mean December when he shot 36% from the field and 21% on threes?

:lol

Just quit while you are behind.

Start meaning start...as in second best start in team history, encompassing those games before Pop started the Beno and Devin choke show....Sorry for giving you too much credit....



By the way statboy....still waiting.

Right now I figure I have answered three of your questions directly and with factually provable material...it's time for you to put up.

Still waiting for you to provide a shred of proof Barry is passing up fewer open 3 shots and being more agressive than last year. Now that you have shown you can look up stats you should have no problem backing up your opinion. Mine has already been backed up.

I await your answer...or at least your next diversionary nitpick.