Who Is The Second Option On The Spurs?

[timvp]

When games are close in the fourth quarter, who do you give the ball to if Duncan is being double/triple teamed? I think this is a key decision for the Spurs. Either Manu or Tony is going to have to step it out and become a game in, game out offensive force. Second option by committee rarely works in the NBA.

Tony Parker
Lightning quick, can get to the basket at will and finish at the rim. Streaky shooter, but seems to hit shots when it matters. Can get out on the break and create for himself and others.

Manu Ginobili
Very crafty around the basket. He figures out angles to drive and can make a circus shot finish look routine. A hot-cold type of shooter, it's hard to know how he'll shoot from game to game. Olympic Gold has made him a star.

[AFE7FATMAN]

Voted Manu but I would have picked Barry for the game winner.

[travis2]

4th quarter? Tim locked down? Isn't that what we got Barry for in the first place?

[xcoriate]

When games are close in the fourth quarter

This for me is an important factor, Parker has not shown to be clutch as yet, manu on the other hand always seems to be having a huge 4th quarter, and that buzzer beeter at the olympics rivaled....










0.4

[MI21]

I choose Parker.

Parker has shown he can deliver at times in big moments and can create a higher % shot for himself than Manu can. If I need a score, and Timmy isn't a viable option due to foul trouble or he is facing incredible defensive pressure, I want the ball in Tony's hands to create something for himself, or somebody else. Getting into the lane at important moments is the way to go, and nobody on the Spurs does it better than Parker.

[jcrod]

I also chose Parker.

Even though I think we'll see both of them in this role. The reason I chose Parker, I see him wanting the ball in his hands. He wants that high pick and roll and to either drive, shoot or pass it. He's the second leading scorer on the team.

[bigzak25]

sheeyyyit. will Tony even be on the floor? Manu, no question. Barry will always be covered, unless the other team has an idiot for a coach....and the lane will no doubt be clogged....

who takes the final Outside shot....it's manu right now....i want devin to be that type of player as well...

[TwoHandJam]

Manu is by far the more clutch. He is the guy whose hands I'd want the ball in for the last seconds. Although Tony averages more points per game, Pop has shown a tendency to trust Manu more for end of game possessions.

[Ginofan]

I'd pick Tony for qaurters 1-3 but you HAVE to choose Manu for the 4th. He IS Mr. 4th Quarter.

[picnroll]

Parker. He's better able to get a shot off, half the time Duncan and Manu when they are pressured with the shot clock going down dump the ball to Parker who can at least get a decent look. Also Manu is better than Parker at lurking and getting put backs off missed shots.

[MI21]

He IS Mr. 4th Quarter.

Sure, he is a great 4th quarter player. But thats including all aspects of the game. If I want a clutch steal, rebound or loose ball get then Manu is the man. But when it comes to making the clutch shots for the Spurs, I have seen Tony make more and trust him more.

[TMTTRIO]

I would give the ball to Manu. Not only can he get the clutch steal, rebound, block, but he will do anything to get to the basket and I remember a couple of games last season where he took over the game when we were down and led us to a win.

[genghisrex]

Also Manu is better than Parker at lurking and getting put backs off missed shots.
Your last reason is why I found it hard to choose Manu, but I have more confidence in him to knock down the big shot than I do in Tony. In a last second option, there might not be an opportunity for a tip so I have to go with the guy who I think is going to hit the first shot. Tony's made some clutch baskets for this team, but if the defense closes off the lane I'm not all that confident that he'll be able to step back and drill the jumper in someone's face as time expires. With Manu on the other hand, I believe he can (and often will) hit the shot, even if he's off balance with no apparent view of the basket (in fact, he might be more likely to hit then than if he's wide open ;)). At the same time, if there is a little more time left on the clock, I have greater faith in Manu to hit an open teammate for the winning basket.

I think Tony is and will continue to be our second best player, but Manu's more valuable in the clutch.

[Useruser666]

I think both are the second option. Isn't that better than having just one person be designated for that role? Wouldn't that keep opponents guessing? This can also make the offense more dynamic depending on match ups and what defender is rotated on the offensive player. Hopefully both TP and Gino can shoot at least a decent percentage from the floor to make either of them doubly dangerous.

[ducks]

I think you go with the guy that is hot that night
both have been cold or hot

[jcrod]

Parker. He's better able to get a shot off, half the time Duncan and Manu when they are pressured with the shot clock going down dump the ball to Parker who can at least get a decent look. Also Manu is better than Parker at lurking and getting put backs off missed shots.



Sure, he is a great 4th quarter player. But thats including all aspects of the game. If I want a clutch steal, rebound or loose ball get then Manu is the man. But when it comes to making the clutch shots for the Spurs, I have seen Tony make more and trust him more.

Couple of other reasons why I chose Parker. But again, I think they both will be in that position.



Tony's made some clutch baskets for this team, but if the defense closes off the lane I'm not all that confident that he'll be able to step back and drill the jumper in someone's face as time expires. With Manu on the other hand, I believe he can (and often will) hit the shot, even if he's off balance with no apparent view of the basket (in fact, he might be more likely to hit then than if he's wide open ). At the same time, if there is a little more time left on the clock, I have greater faith in Manu to hit an open teammate for the winning basket.

That's why he stayed in S.A this summer. That's why I like Tony so much, every yr he's trying to correct his game to where defenses can't stop him. That's one of the reasons he created that floater in the lane. He's been working on his outside shooting and driving and finishing with his left hand. I'm sorry but in the half court, Tony finds his teammates more often. Manu is better on the fast break.

[Nikos]

If Manu has been feeling it for much of the game I wouldn't mind going to him.

But in general I would take Parker to go for a late game shot or basket. He has more of a speed advantage at his position than Manu has at his. Manu usually makes a difference with his rebounds, hustle, steals and drive/passes. So if Parker can concentrate on scoring when the team needs it consistently, I would feel comfortable that they can both make key plays in the 4th.

I just think Parker has more of a scorers mentality.

[MI21]

This would be as a rule though, there will be exceptions. If Manu has been piping hot the whole game, then go to him by all means. Same with Barry, he has some history with hitting clutch shot in the regular season.

All this should only really apply if Tim isn't able to get a decent shot.. ie: Not the catch turn and shoot 20 footer on the buzzer he always seems to take when his number gets called for a late game play. It never works. (0.4 was different :) )

[genghisrex]

That's why he stayed in S.A this summer. That's why I like Tony so much, every yr he's trying to correct his game to where defenses can't stop him. That's one of the reasons he created that floater in the lane. He's been working on his outside shooting and driving and finishing with his left hand. I'm sorry but in the half court, Tony finds his teammates more often. Manu is better on the fast break.
I too am very glad TP's been working hard on his game this summer, but I'll wait to judge his improvements until I see them on the court. Don't take that the wrong way -- I think Tony's already shown clutch ability, but I stick by my assertion that Manu's shown more in that regard.

As for finding his teammates in the half court, I agree that Tony usually does a good job and at times an outstanding one. However, I think Manu is better at making the spectacular pass, and I'm not referring to passes between Kobe's legs on the break. I think Manu has an uncanny ability to find openings and hit his teammates for easy buckets and that can be a valuable ability when you need a bucket late in the game.

[wildbill2u]

sheeyyyit. will Tony even be on the floor? Manu, no question. Barry will always be covered, unless the other team has an idiot for a coach....and the lane will no doubt be clogged....

who takes the final Outside shot....it's manu right now....i want devin to be that type of player as well...

The question got changed from who is the second option to "who do you want to take the last shot?" IMHO there is a difference.

If we're down to the last shot in the closing seconds, you put your best offense players on the court. I want these guys on the court: Tim, Manu, Parker, Barry, Brown.

Then let the opponent decide if can afford to double Duncan. Whoever is open should take the shot. :makemyday

[genghisrex]

The question got changed from who is the second option to "who do you want to take the last shot?" IMHO there is a difference.
There is a difference, but timvp clarified the question in his first sentence with "When games are close in the fourth quarter, who do you give the ball to if Duncan is being double/triple teamed?"

That's why people are talking about who they'd go to in the clutch, although the fourth quarter certainly includes more than the last shot.

[duncan2k5]

I voted for manu because parker is younger and more liable to choke (even though he is my boy5) but manu is crafty and will find ways to score. buh lets not forget the game winning floater parker had over nowitski at the buzzer last season. dude got a lil clutch in him

[RobinsontoDuncan]

well i think if you think back to the playoffs tp was very much the better player, hell if you saw what he did to mephis.......

[HollywoodKobe]

Tony Parker everyday of the week. You guys have no idea how good he is going to be this season. It will be clear that he's the best point guard in the league when the season is over.

[blackbucket]

HWood Kobe, are you feeling ok??? The best pg in the league by the end??? And from a Laker fan no less. I'll be happy if he cracks the top 5 this year.

[ducks]

I think he could be right?
steve nash past prime
marbarry= good but maybe past prime
sam cassel= age will catch up this year
baron davis= going against west this year and unhappy
kidd= will he even play this year?

[timvp]

I think this player for the Spurs has to be Parker. Put him in a pick-and-roll late in games and he'll deliver. He can get to the basket and create his shots just as well as Manu can. Manu makes it look more flashy, but Parker shoots a higher percentage close to the rim.

And as far as Manu being "much clutcher", I don't buy that. Other than his Olympic shot, I don't remember many times that he had huge fourth quarter shots. Parker, on the other hand, has a number of game winners under his belt already.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

agreed timvp also the fact is that Tony Parker is just the fastest player in the league period. That means that he could make something out of nothing when everyhting is on the line. Manu Ginobilli might have the better three point shot but hell, we all know that neither are particularly known for their perimiter shooting... give the ball to Berry when we need a three, but otherwise TP is our man.

[Phenomanul]

I would give the ball to Manu. Not only can he get the clutch steal, rebound, block, but he will do anything to get to the basket and I remember a couple of games last season where he took over the game when we were down and led us to a win.


The game last year at Chicago comes to mind.... 4 back to back treys with two amazing layups in the span of about 3 minutes (game time tics)....

[Ginofan]

well i think if you think back to the playoffs tp was very much the better player, hell if you saw what he did to mephis.......

And then he choked against the Lakers? Manu may have not been big but at least he was consistant.


And as far as Manu being "much clutcher", I don't buy that. Other than his Olympic shot, I don't remember many times that he had huge fourth quarter shots. Parker, on the other hand, has a number of game winners under his belt already.

not game winners but definitely clutchness...
Nov.6 2003 vs Lakers
Feb. 9 2004 vs Houston (remember this one where he went over Yao TWICE)
March 31 2004 vs Sactown
April 9 2004 vs Portland
May 2 2004 vs Lakers

[Nikos]

The two games I remember Manu making some big late game shots were against Houston (against Yao in the last two minutes), and also against the Lakers in Game 2 I beleive, where he made the jumper on the right side.

Other games he has made shots to help put games away early, but I don't remember any last second shots like the one Tony made over Bradley and Dirk in 2003, or the one against Phoenix in 2004.

[whottt]

Manu is the second superstar option. Tony is the second scoring option.

In the final seconds, if forced to choose between the 2, I want the ball in Manu's hands to create, and if we are running a set play to get off a shot I want Tony taking that shot(I'm still comfortable with Horry though, and I'll probably be really comfortable with Barry by seasons end).


Manu's not clutch when we try to use him as a spot up shooter, I've never seen him make one yet...He doesn't like wide open easy shots.

Manu is clutch when all hell breaks loose and he is freelancing and he has to throw up some form of junk no chance shot. I have seen him make those kinds of shots at least twice for the Spurs, once in the NBA finals and I saw him do it in the Olympics. Really he makes them all the time like that, they just aren't always with the game on the line. Don't expect Manu to make an easy shot, he doesn't seem to like that kind.

When Tony is on, he is just flat out the man, I don't think he's unclutch, he just doesn't have a 100% grip on his game and his confidence yet. I expect that to change this season...

While a lot of people remember Parker being shut down in the final games against LA...I'm willing to bet that Tony remembers, what I remember, that he was the best player on the court in games 1 and 2 and almost looked to be in a class of his own against the other HOF'ers on the floor with him, even Duncan, and Parker impressed me in game 5 as well when he finally seemed to figure out how to handle a double team.

I'll never forget that play where he just goofed Shaq, made him look bad in game 2...kinda like he did to Kidd in the early games of the finals. If Tony has his game and his confidence, he is clutch. I have seen him make tough shots under pressure.

I still rather the ball be in Manu's hands to set up the play though, if we can't use Duncan.

[Phenomanul]

The game last year at Chicago comes to mind.... 4 back to back treys with two amazing layups in the span of about 3 minutes (game time tics)....


What, no one remember's this??? If anything Manu's performance saved face for the Spurs, because how in the world could we lose to an underachieving Bulls team...???

Manu prevented that from happenning. 16 points in a 3 minute span in the fourth is pretty clutch to me considering we were down by 9 and sinking faster than an anvil.

I agree with Whott's post above... Manu is a clutch creator... and Parker is the clutch shooter (just lacking in consistency)... And Duncan... well he's Duncan... the Dunk that was 0.2 seconds too late against the Bucks last year would have been a great addition to his own repertoire of game winners. Last year just wasn't our year though... I feel we needed at least a year of adjustment (from not having Robinson). And that can be explained by the divine intervention that allowed Fisher's shot to go in and in the process nullified Duncan's greatest shot ever.....

[timvp]

Nice point, Whottt. Parker has hit tons of clutch shots ... Manu has made a lot of clutch plays.

Combined ... they are a pretty damn clutch backcourt.

[slayermin]

Gotta go with Ginobili.

If I recall, Manu hit at least one clutch three in each of the 4th Qtrs during the series clinching playoff games in 2003.

His shot against Serbia and Montenegro was a legit 0.4 shot. Fisher was not in 0.4.

[xcoriate]

In light of the discussion I change my opinion...

Either one of them can take the shot as far as I'm concerned. I'm quite content with either taking it and I'd be prepared to have Horry take the shot as well, I mean the man's pedigree. "Big Shot Rob" -- nuff said.

Barry has a made a few game winners in his time too.

[2pac]

Parker's job is to set up Manu or Tim. If TPs man lags and he can have an easy drive or shot, he can take it - easy drive is always the first option. On that drive, if the defense collapses, first option is Timmay.

Parker sets up, but the plays should be for Tim/Manu/Brent/TP/Rasho. However, plays for Tim could work for TP - like the PnR. Basketball is all about good decision making - finding the open man, finding the easy lane, finding the right pass.