Knicks decline to match Spurs' offer to Butler [Archive] - Page 2

mardigan

07-19-2006, 04:43 PM

Nevermind, I just read on the Rocky Mountain Review that the Smith deal could be finalized by today or tommorrow and that the Elson decision could come down to the last hour.

ELSON WAITS: The agent for restricted free agent center Francisco Elson said he plans to talk with Warkentien today about the future of his client.

Calvin Andrews, who also represents Anthony, is hoping to learn more about whether the Nuggets intend to match a two-year, $6 million offer sheet Elson received from San Antonio.

It is doubtful Andrews or Elson will learn much.

Warkentien reiterated Tuesday a decision about Elson likely will come at the "11th hour." The Nuggets have until Thursday to decide whether to retain Elson or let him sign with the Spurs.

Das Texan

07-19-2006, 04:45 PM

I'm already counting down the days until Elson loses his starting job. If Elson is still starting in the playoffs it's going to be ugly.

Oh hell...

Just start Oberto at center.

Mr.Bottomtooth

07-19-2006, 04:45 PM

Hopefully another addition to the Killer B's.

SenorSpur

07-19-2006, 04:46 PM

u guys can go by stats but ive seen Elson play and he is a great backup and even a worthy starter if need be. He does what you need him to, be a presence inside and be physical. The Nuggets already have a defending and rebounding machine but Camby was soft and Elson added a physical presence inside that was great.

Pop would be doing the right thing if he started Elson over Butler.

Although noone really has much idea yet about Elson getting matched.

I, for one, appreciate input from an avid Nuggets fan. The fact is the Spurs have not had a physical presence patroling the paint for some time. In fact, they've greatly missed the shotblocking and rebounding prowess of the Admiral. While Rasho was a good shotblocker, it wouldn't take much for a player to be considered more physical than either he or Nazr.

If we can get some of these things from Elson and on a consistent basis, perhaps it won't be as bad as originally thought.

However, I still believe Wright would be a better option.

Winnipeg_Spur

07-19-2006, 04:47 PM

Fucking awesome! I wasn't obsesively checking the board cause I wasn't expecting a decision till tommorrow, but this was a nice surprise! :)

mardigan

07-19-2006, 04:48 PM

Is Elson really worth 3 mill a year though?

Spurologist

07-19-2006, 04:50 PM

Isiah Thomas' new motto:

"Molding championship centers to the spurs"

http://www.theathletesagency.com/Data/Uploads/Admin/SportPersonalities/234/CatalogImages/234/Isiah%20Thomas.jpg

Thanks Isiah.

Phenomanul

07-19-2006, 04:50 PM

Does Butler keep #45??

spurs_fan_in_exile

07-19-2006, 04:53 PM

Isiah Thomas' new motto:

"Molding championship centers to the spurs"

http://www.theathletesagency.com/Data/Uploads/Admin/SportPersonalities/234/CatalogImages/234/Isiah%20Thomas.jpg

Thanks Isiah.

I'm afraid that if we win another championship with a Knicks castaway that the FO is going to believe we can win with anything the Knicks are willing to deal. Mark my words, in 2012 you will hear Stan Kelly announce, "And the starting center....Nate Robinson!"

mardigan

07-19-2006, 04:57 PM

Does Butler keep #45??

Whos gonna take it?

Budkin

07-19-2006, 04:59 PM

Mike Budenholzer (Spurs assistant coach) is coming on the Ticket 760 in a few. He's going to talk about summer league and I think Butler.

NuGGeTs-FaN

07-19-2006, 05:04 PM

Is Elson really worth 3 mill a year though?

To me he is. Look at what big men who can play center get paid, its ridiculous. Jerome James, Chandler, Dalembert, Nene. Im not saying he is as good as them (well maybe Jerome James :lol ) but $3mil isnt much for a serviceable big man.

Other serviceable big men are getting the MLE and even more.

Id like to see the Nuggets pay him that coz he has played for them for cheap and now he deserves to get paid :fro

mardigan

07-19-2006, 05:06 PM

I suppose you are right, I guess 3 mill just sounds like a bunch of money to me

mardigan

07-19-2006, 05:07 PM

Budenholdzer is on now

NuGGeTs-FaN

07-19-2006, 05:09 PM

I suppose you are right, I guess 3 mill just sounds like a bunch of money to me

:lol the minimum sounds like a bunch of money to me :fro

especially considering im moving to Africa next year

Spurologist

07-19-2006, 05:12 PM

I'm afraid that if we win another championship with a Knicks castaway that the FO is going to believe we can win with anything the Knicks are willing to deal. Mark my words, in 2012 you will hear Stan Kelly announce, "And the starting center....Nate Robinson!"

Well at least the spurs dunk % at the center position would reach extremely high levels. Say Rasho for example

mardigan

07-19-2006, 05:13 PM

:lol the minimum sounds like a bunch of money to me :fro

especially considering im moving to Africa next year

Shit, make sure you bring some off

TMSKILZ

07-19-2006, 05:20 PM

Elson & Butler are the scrapheep of the FA Bigmen, but oh well, the Spurs made their decisions & moves, we can only hope these pan out.

furry_spurry

07-19-2006, 05:29 PM

Hopefully it works out- but I don't know if the Spurs have the luxury of the time he might need to develop. Depending on what else happens, he may have trouble getting onto the court. But as the fourth or fifth big man, he's fine. I think, though, that people will soon learn, that a lot of what they saw from the other centers was actually the product of the way the Spurs used them and not necessarily their own lack of abilities.

Lowered expectations. Now fans are thrilled with Butler!

ChumpDumper

07-19-2006, 05:31 PM

Well Nazr and Rasho couldn't have set those expectations much lower.

5 and 5 from these guys will be considered a success.

jman3000

07-19-2006, 05:32 PM

Well Nazr and Rasho couldn't have set those expectations much lower.

5 and 5 from these guys will be considered a success.

That's half a double double...

I'll take it
:spin

furry_spurry

07-19-2006, 05:33 PM

Well Nazr and Rasho couldn't have set those expectations much lower.

5 and 5 from these guys will be considered a success.
I'm talking the front office lowering expectations as to who they could get. Now people are excited because they got anyone!

SenorSpur

07-19-2006, 05:35 PM

Personally, I'd be much more excited if they bolster the Butler signing with a veteran center and a young, wing player.

ChumpDumper

07-19-2006, 05:37 PM

Honestly Jackie excites me more than Przybilla. The Spurs have been more successful training folks to play defense than trying to make scorers out of nonscorers.

We'll have to see how it pans out, but like LJ said it's like getting a mid first rounder.

SenorSpur

07-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Honestly Jackie excites me more than Przybilla. The Spurs have been more successful training folks to play defense than trying to make scorers out of nonscorers.

I'm curious as to why are you more excited about Butler than Pryzbilla?

Obviously, Pryzbilla is the more polished player today. He is a better shotblocker and post defender. His offense aint bad either and he is a seasoned veteran starter in this league.

Time will tell if Butler turns into a better player.

furry_spurry

07-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Honestly Jackie excites me more than Przybilla. The Spurs have been more successful training folks to play defense than trying to make scorers out of nonscorers.

In Rasho's case they trained him to play Spurs defense and turned a scorer into a non-scorer. :lol

ChumpDumper

07-19-2006, 05:44 PM

ChumpDumper

07-19-2006, 05:45 PM

In Rasho's case they trained him to play Spurs defense and turned a scorer into a non-scorer. :lolIf he ends up defending like Rasho and still dunks like Butler, mission accomplished.

SenorSpur

07-19-2006, 05:59 PM

I will never call anything about Joel polished. His post defense is pretty undisciplined. Maybe he could be taught that, but so could Butler.

And Joel's offense is bad.

This is about upside. By this time Joel has very little. Butler seems to have alot.

Like a draft pick.

I tend to agree. Besides, Pryz has probably peaked as a player. Butler is just getting started. I'm glad to finally have an infusion of young, raw, draft-pick-like talent on the roster.

I view this signing the same as having a 1st round draft pick, without the hoopla. Plus this guy already has some NBA experience and can develop without the glare of the NY media. Because his salary is manageable, this is clearly a win-win for both the Spurs and for him.

koopa

07-19-2006, 06:01 PM

I'm curious as to why are you more excited about Butler than Pryzbilla?

Obviously, Pryzbilla is the more polished player today. He is a better shotblocker and post defender. His offense aint bad either and he is a seasoned veteran starter in this league.

Time will tell if Butler turns into a better player.

pryzbilla is hot garbage with no potential to speak of, he is what he is...butler on the other hand has a lot of upside. and he has an easier last name to say.

i'm glad we got butler, now i'm not so worried about elson coming here

and why do ppl use that 40 min or 48 min stat crap??? that is probably the most useless way to look at stats. no one on the spurs plays 40 mins, and no body in the nba avg. 48 mins

angel_luv

07-19-2006, 06:06 PM

Welcome to the team Jackie Butler. :)

I have decided to trust all of you all about this being a great deal since I am not familiar yet with Butler or his game.

Consider this my here's hoping :elephant

:)

picnroll

07-19-2006, 06:07 PM

Just think, trading Malik and his contract with lux tax money and a spot taken up on the Knicks' roster may have gotten the Spurs Butler.

tlongII

07-19-2006, 06:08 PM

LMAO at those that would rather have Butler than Przybilla! Butler is 6' 8.5", Przybilla is 7' 1". Just a slight difference. Joel plays excellent P&R on offense as well. Butler can shoot FT's better though.

PM5K

07-19-2006, 06:09 PM

ChumpDumper

07-19-2006, 06:10 PM

It's all about upside, although I think Joel will love Seattle.

I'm sure I'm hoping Butler improves much faster than he actually will though.

Budkin

07-19-2006, 06:15 PM

I'm just glad we accomplished several goals with this signing. We got some more youth (finally), we got what looks to be a guy with a lot of potential for growth, and we got him cheap. Thank god the cheap part didn't bite us in the ass.

loveforthegame

07-19-2006, 06:16 PM

Finally some good news. Although I liked the Vaughn signing too. Welcome Butler.

I'm on the fence with Elson so I won't be pissed if we get him or not.

Taking it to the Hole

07-19-2006, 06:20 PM

WOO HOO!!! Finally, we have a promising young big! Butler is the guy I had wanted when I knew we couldn't get Pryzbilla. SWEET!!!!!! :elephant

tlongII

07-19-2006, 06:22 PM

It's all about upside, although I think Joel will love Seattle.

I'm sure I'm hoping Butler improves much faster than he actually will though.

You better zip it about Seattle or I will start posting YouTube links! :nope

Cant_Be_Faded

07-19-2006, 06:24 PM

I wont believe it until timvp starts saying i told you so

exstatic

07-19-2006, 06:26 PM

Elson & Butler are the scrapheep of the FA Bigmen, but oh well, the Spurs made their decisions & moves, we can only hope these pan out.
Elson, yeah, but how the fuck can you be "scrapheap" when you're 21?

ChumpDumper

07-19-2006, 06:29 PM

You better zip it about Seattle or I will start posting YouTube links! :nopeLike this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zf6xapTdczM&search=space%20needle) ?

strangeweather

07-19-2006, 06:31 PM

That's exaggerated I said he was a little overweight maybe I said it too much. I do like him I was very excited when the Knicks declined to match. Anyway I'll shut up about it.
Just face it -- two years from now, you'll still be the guy who thinks Butler is fat. :spin

Buddy Holly

07-19-2006, 06:40 PM

Actually, they'd probably be the Bellevue Blazers or the Pugot Sound Blazers.

exstatic

07-19-2006, 06:54 PM

Players you can compare Jackie Butler to:
Kedrick Perkins and Al Jefferson. Both were first round picks acquired by Boston, and both are rumored to be asked about any time Boston is in trade discussions, to no avail. If you consider last year Jackie's rookie season, since he played 3 games and 5 minutes in his actual rookie season, Jackie's stacks up well against Jefferson's and beats Perkins' hands down. He's younger than both of them.

DieMrBond

07-19-2006, 07:07 PM

According to Dime Smack over at Foxsports

Due to a clerical error, the Knicks now have until tomorrow to match San Antonio’s offer sheet for Jackie Butler. The New York Post said the team hasn’t even contacted Butler or his agent since the Spurs made the offer, so it looks like Tim Duncan and Co. finally have a center. The Spurs also signed Francisco Elson to an offer sheet, which Denver has until tomorrow to match.

http://blogs.foxsports.com/DimeMagazine/2006/07/19/A_Sonic_Move

Interesting if true. The Knicks sure are well run.

exstatic

07-19-2006, 07:11 PM

According to Dime Smack over at Foxsports

http://blogs.foxsports.com/DimeMagazine/2006/07/19/A_Sonic_Move

Interesting if true. The Knicks sure are well run.
That's news from days ago. A source in the Knick's FO has stated that they WON'T match.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

07-19-2006, 07:12 PM

Fantastic news if it's true, but I don't put too much faith in "a source in the Kinicks".

I won't believe anything until it becomes official.

Fingers crossed it's correct.

picnroll

07-19-2006, 07:33 PM

Isiah Thomas

07-19-2006, 08:02 PM

I didn't need that rugrat

bigdog

07-19-2006, 08:57 PM

wooo.....we got butler (if this is true), but im not convinced that we are getting elson. theres more of a chance that he will end up with denver again next year. so if that happens, look for lorenzen wright to pop into the picture, or a trade for Magloire.

DieMrBond

07-19-2006, 08:57 PM

That's news from days ago. A source in the Knick's FO has stated that they WON'T match.

Oh! Serves me right for being sick in bed... :depressed

timvp

07-19-2006, 09:13 PM

I think, though, that people will soon learn, that a lot of what they saw from the other centers was actually the product of the way the Spurs used them and not necessarily their own lack of abilities.

Lowered expectations. Now fans are thrilled with Butler!

I think your love of Rasho is getting in the way of your analysis of this transaction.

:smokin

timvp

07-19-2006, 09:17 PM

Al Jefferson
w/o shoes – 6’8.25”; w/shoes 6’ 9.75”; weight 263; wingspan 7’ 2.5”; standing reach 9’2”

Jackie Butler
w/o shoes – 6’8”; w/shoes 6’ 9.5”; weight 263; wingspan 7’ 1.5”; standing reach 9’1”

They are similar players. Jefferson is an even better low post scorer, a little bit better rebounder and a little bit better shotblocker. Butler has a more center-like body style while Jefferson will end up a power forward.

Jefferson has 20 and 12 like potential while Butler has 15 and 10 potential.

But yeah, as far as size, good hands and a soft touch, it's a good comparison.

ro_50

07-19-2006, 09:19 PM

Congrats to the San Antonio Spurs for landing their first restricted free agent in franchise history.

Got a little lucky but the Spurs were in line for luck at some point this summer.

:smokin

Much better than the ill-fated attempt to nab Tyrone Nesby from the Clipps in the summer of 1999. Remember that one.

clubalien

07-19-2006, 09:21 PM

K cato the one that played with yoa is who i would want as a starting center
I belive he was part of the blokbuter trade involving tmac

SA210

07-19-2006, 09:23 PM

I'm afraid that if we win another championship with a Knicks castaway that the FO is going to believe we can win with anything the Knicks are willing to deal. Mark my words, in 2012 you will hear Stan Kelly announce, "And the starting center....Nate Robinson!"
You would still have that sorry excuse for an announcer Stan Kelly here in 2012?

:pctoss

bigdog

07-19-2006, 09:27 PM

haha i hate stan kelly. no offense but that guys voice is so shaky, i mean u guys have heard him say "tonyyyy parRRrRRRker." haha. dude soudns like he wants to cry. we should replace him with Crazy Lou! that guy is cool

T Park

07-19-2006, 09:31 PM

we should replace him with Crazy Lou! that guy is cool

Yeah replace him with a guy that has less brainmatter than an amoeba.

No thank you.

Crazy Lou aint half what Chris Duel was, and the stooge shouldn't even enter the damn arena.

bigdog

07-19-2006, 09:33 PM

Yeah replace him with a guy that has less brainmatter than an amoeba.

No thank you.

Crazy Lou aint half what Chris Duel was, and the stooge shouldn't even enter the damn arena.

well replace him with somebody, ANYBODY.

THE SIXTH MAN

07-19-2006, 09:41 PM

well replace him with somebody, ANYBODY.
Does anybody know if that guy will ever be replaced?

Mr.Bottomtooth

07-19-2006, 09:44 PM

http://www.broadbandnewsnet.com/newsmanager/articlefiles/3293-butlerblockkobe.jpg
Our Kobe-stopper! :lol

Extra Stout

07-19-2006, 09:51 PM

Stan Kelly always sounds like he might just keel over dead during player introductions.

Somebody a little less nasal, please. White Urkel has had his run.

T Park

07-19-2006, 09:55 PM

:yawn

Buddy Holly

07-19-2006, 10:00 PM

Stan Kelly does suck major ass.

We need someone whose voice doesn't crack like a 12 year old.

exstatic

07-19-2006, 10:06 PM

who the fuck is this guy again?
Not a dumbass like you.

Extra Stout

07-19-2006, 10:07 PM

Any chance Bucky is one of the Arkansas contingent?

marcus

07-19-2006, 10:36 PM

Isiah didn't match Butler's offer because it was very cheap, lol. Maybe if the spurs made a 14 millons 3 years offer then Butler would still be a knick, ha.

Brutalis

07-19-2006, 10:39 PM

Is Butler a Spur for sure ?

Kori Ellis

07-19-2006, 10:40 PM

Is Butler a Spur for sure ?

Yes. His agent said that Isiah called him at 1:30 today and officially told him NY isn't matching.

Brutalis

07-19-2006, 10:40 PM

And I thought this offseason was going to suck.

NCaliSpurs

07-19-2006, 10:57 PM

Sorry if this was already posted. The last time I checked in the thread was less than page 8.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/basketball/20knicks.html

NCaliSpurs

07-19-2006, 10:59 PM

In a rare show of fiscal prudence, the Knicks have decided to part with the reserve center Jackie Butler rather than match an offer made by the San Antonio Spurs.

The Spurs last week signed Butler, a restricted free agent, to a three-year, $7 million deal. The Knicks announced yesterday that they would not match the offer. The team did not elaborate on its decision.

So the Knicks’ first roster move of the summer was a subtraction, not an addition — an indication of a new, conservative approach.

Butler would have been among the lowest-paid players on the roster, with a starting salary of $2.3 million. The Knicks have invested nearly $90 million in their top two centers — Eddy Curry and Jerome James — and several others who can play center, including Channing Frye.

Butler, 21, averaged 5.3 points and 3.3 rebounds in 55 games last season, his first full season in the National Basketball Association.

“They do have a lot of money in that position, and I think they feel like they’re stocked enough with the roster they have now,” said Butler’s agent, Keith Glass.

Had Butler not signed an offer sheet, the Knicks could have re-signed him for less money. In that case, Glass said: “I think Jackie would have been back. The offer sheet was obviously a problem.”

Because of their high payroll, the Knicks would have paid an additional $7 million in luxury-tax penalties on Butler’s contract, making him a $14 million investment.

Isiah Thomas, the Knicks’ president and coach, has said that he is satisfied with the team’s roster and does not intend to make a major move this summer. But letting Butler go gives Thomas more flexibility if he changes his mind. The Knicks already have 14 guaranteed contracts, one shy of the maximum; the vacancy could allow them to make a multiplayer trade without having to waive a player.

Butler was a favorite of Coach Larry Brown, who often played him over Curry and James during fourth quarters late in the season.

The Knicks’ new fiscal conservatism “doesn’t surprise me,” Glass added.

“At some point,” he said, “I think they’re looking at the results, and I think they’re realizing that money alone doesn’t guarantee you much.”

Beer is Good

07-19-2006, 11:22 PM

14 pages in a matter of a few hours. Is this the next DROB?

Nice signing, but there is still more work to be done to fill out the roster. Basically, we have not upgraded the position quite yet except for the fact that we dumped big money contracts for a nice low one. It is in that that the Spurs have won today.

ducks

07-19-2006, 11:25 PM

it is called the offseason
who cares
this place rocks
better then a bumch of dead forums this time of year

Beer is Good

07-19-2006, 11:32 PM

it is called the offseason
who cares
this place rocks
better then a bumch of dead forums this time of year
I know. I was joking. But seriously,

do you really think that Butler is an upgrade over Rasho/Nazr? To me - not right now. He may be in the future, he may not. So I don't think the Spurs have upgraded much on the court, but they have dumped bad contracts for this nice one on a nice player. I think the freed up money for next year or later is the real reason to be celebrating here.

ducks

07-19-2006, 11:34 PM

if he sets a pick and stays out of tony's and manu's way on the o
he is a upgrade over nazr

Mr. Body

07-19-2006, 11:37 PM

do you really think that Butler is an upgrade over Rasho/Nazr? To me - not right now. He may be in the future, he may not. So I don't think the Spurs have upgraded much on the court, but they have dumped bad contracts for this nice one on a nice player. I think the freed up money for next year or later is the real reason to be celebrating here.

With good hands, he's better than Nazr, in aggressiveness, he's better than Rasho. In offense, he's better than both.

In defense, he's worse. To take advantage of him, we might need to run plays for him on the block, a no-no in the Duncan era.

I expect him to become a sound defensive player.

Beer is Good

07-19-2006, 11:38 PM

if he sets a pick and stays out of tony's and manu's way on the o
he is a upgrade over nazr
Maybe. I still think that the Spurs could use a solid offensive game from the center for one very simple reason - it would not allow teams like Dallas or Phoenix to play two small guards and kill the Spurs in the paint like what happened this post-season. A center who has a nice offensive game can take doubles away from Timmy (at least center doubles) and would force teams like the Mavs to keep another big in to guard him. You know Dirk won't guard a center who can score, and won't guard Timmy. That means leaving Dirk on the bench in favor of a low post guy or putting Dirk at the 3 and dumping Howard to the bench. Force Dallas to match up big and they will be in trouble.

ducks

07-19-2006, 11:39 PM

that is why they are going to need to get murphy!

Beer is Good

07-19-2006, 11:39 PM

With good hands, he's better than Nazr, in aggressiveness, he's better than Rasho. In offense, he's better than both.

In defense, he's worse. To take advantage of him, we might need to run plays for him on the block, a no-no in the Duncan era.

I expect him to become a sound defensive player.

If he can develop that kind of offensive game that allows us to do that, that will force teams to matchup big to avoid being slaughtered on the block.

Mr. Body

07-19-2006, 11:40 PM

BiG-- good philosophy, and I hope it works in practice. Butler seems like a guy who can cause big problems down low, especially against defenders who struggle at times, like Dampier and Diop. I can see them picking up fouls trying to keep him out.

Whether the Spurs run plays for him is another matter.

Beer is Good

07-19-2006, 11:46 PM

Slinkyman

07-20-2006, 01:36 AM

I know. I was joking. But seriously,

do you really think that Butler is an upgrade over Rasho/Nazr? To me - not right now. He may be in the future, he may not. So I don't think the Spurs have upgraded much on the court, but they have dumped bad contracts for this nice one on a nice player. I think the freed up money for next year or later is the real reason to be celebrating here.

Is he an upgrade over Rasho/Nazr? they didn't give us squat so the bar is very low, Butler doesn't have to do much to equal what those two stiffs gave us. Search Jackie Butler at Youtube.com and you'll find a single clip where Butler does something nazr could never do(catch a pass), then something Rasho could never do(dunk).