Knicks decline to match Spurs' offer to Butler

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071906.203c608.html

Knicks decline to match Spurs' offer to Butler

Web Posted: 07/19/2006 01:55 PM CDT

SALT LAKE CITY – The New York Knicks have decided not to match the Spurs’ three-year, $7 million offer to restricted free agent Jackie Butler, a Knicks’ spokesman said Wednesday.

The Spurs have yet to officially hear from the Knicks or the NBA.

The Spurs also have not heard from the Denver Nuggets, who have until Thursday to match an offer for restricted free agent Francisco Elson.

Both Butler and Elson are centers.

[ChumpDumper]

A day early?

[Kori Ellis]

I took out the question marks on your thread title. If E-N says it, then I think it's true!

[timvp]

:elephant :elephant :elephant

[ChumpDumper]

Great news.

Things are sure looking better now.

[infinite styles]

If its true then thats some of the best news so far this offseason. But I'm waiting till its on the Spurs website cause the Knicks office says a lot.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

oh boy, Knicks fans will be cussing bad right now :lol :smokin

[picnroll]

Just landed the best center since DRob retired. :smokin

[z0sa]

yes!

[timvp]

3-years, $7M for Jackie Butler is the best Spurs free agent signing since they got Bruce Bowen for the minimum back in the summer of 2001.

[Supergirl]

Yay!

[yavozerb]

Will hopefully this is true and the spurs will finally add some youth to the team. I still think butler is back-up center at this point and if the nuggets sign elson (which I hope they will not) we can possible persue Magloire. This def. helps the spirit of spurs fans during a rough off-season!!

[Mr. Body]

:elephant

my first dancing elephant

[Dingle Barry]

3-years, $7M for Jackie Butler is the best Spurs free agent signing since they got Bruce Bowen for the minimum back in the summer of 2001.

I'd say since Finley for what, 2.5 per?

[mardigan]

Now I can finally get over No hands departure. Fuck yeah Spurs!

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

very good news, now let's hope he's not a bust

[NorCal510]

e-40 is a good center

[SpursWoman]

Nice. :elephant

[JamStone]

I like the signing for the Spurs. Congrats, Spurs fans. I think he'll work hard and do well.

[JamStone]

very good news, now let's hope he's not a bust


At the price the Spurs got him, he could pretty much suck and still not be a bust.

[FromWayDowntown]

Hopefully, this proves to be a coup for the recently-maligned front office.

Youth, size, and some offensive skill at the center spot. Nice.

[SpursWoman]

At the price the Spurs got him, he could pretty much suck and still not be a bust.

No doubt. :lol

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

At the price the Spurs got him, he could pretty much suck and still not be a bust.

yeh but you know that some people would still cuss him out if he sucks even at just $5 a year , its the NBA fans way :lol

[mcornelio]

Come Back Radoslav!!

[T Park]

YES!!!

THANK YOU ISAIH!!!



Now cue all the FO is grand talk again :lmao

[Mr. Body]

The only guy happier than we are right now is Jackie Butler.

[dimsah]

About damn time we got some news. Any news. I was getting bored.

[MannyIsGod]

Come Back Radoslav!!Man, if he didnt' have that contract I'd personally love a frnotcourt of Butler/Duncan/Horry/Rasho.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

I'm glad we are getting younger in the starting 5

[picnroll]

A center with hands. Add one assist to Parker's average.

[timvp]

Congrats to the San Antonio Spurs for landing their first restricted free agent in franchise history.

Got a little lucky but the Spurs were in line for luck at some point this summer.

:smokin

[Mr. Body]

Now, ship him out to the Summer Leagues!

[cheguevara]

Isaiah Thomas comes through for the opposing teams again!

[T Park]

My only problem witht his signing, is he isn't that great a rebounder.


Other than that, the jury is out.

[mardigan]

My only problem witht his signing, is he isn't that great a rebounder.


Other than that, the jury is out.
Have to disagree with you again my man, he averaged 3 and a half in thirteen minutes a game, that translates well with more minutes

[DFW Spurs]

Good signing and didn't have to break the bank. Spurs can develop a young player like him. Is it just me, he Sort of reminds me of Malik Rose? :oops

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.nba.com/media/knicks/itpgal_butler_4.jpg

Welcome, enormous manchild. Welcome.

[MannyIsGod]

timvp never wanted Elson. :lol

I don't care at this point. Not like anyone out there is any better.

[timvp]

My only problem witht his signing, is he isn't that great a rebounder.


Other than that, the jury is out.

Uh yeah he is. At 20 he averaged 10 boards per 40 minutes. That's pretty impressive and the highest rebounding rate for any free agent other than Reggie Evans.

I'm glad you are not hyping him like you did the last three centers (Rasho, Nazr, Francisco) :)

[Melmart1]

Does this mean that some of the posters on this board will put away the razors?

[ducks]

I think spurs should now bring in ian
pop and company can work with both at the same time

[dimsah]

and he shoots over 70% on his FT's!
We'll fix that real quick.

[Budkin]

HELL YES!!! WOOOOOO!

:elephant

[SpursWoman]

Have to disagree with you again my man, he averaged 3 and a half in thirteen minutes a game, that translates well with more minutes


Roughly 11 per 48 minutes. :tu

[picnroll]

Now go out and snag Woods.

[timvp]

I can barely live with Elson just because the Spurs got Butler. Elson is about five steps back but Butler is six steps forward.

But I'd rather Elson got matched and the Spurs go out and get someone better. Spending more than half the MLE on Francisco Freakin' Elson is a joke.

[mardigan]

Uh yeah he is. At 20 he averaged 10 boards per 40 minutes. That's pretty impressive and the highest rebounding rate for any free agent other than Reggie Evans.

I'm glad you are not hyping him like you did the last three centers (Rasho, Nazr, Francisco) :)
Fuck yeah, 3.5 boards a game with only 13 minutes a game is fan-fucking-tastic

[T Park]

I'm glad you are not hyping him like you did the last three centers

When in the hell did I ever hype Francisco Elson?



At 20 he averaged 10 boards per 40 minutes. That's pretty impressive and the highest rebounding rate for any free agent other than Reggie Evans.



I was just told by a reliable source :smokin


That his rebounding numbers were similar to Rasho at 3.3 a game.

[mardigan]

and he shoots over 70% on his FT's!
We'll fix that real quick.
75 last year to be exact

[mardigan]

When in the hell did I ever hype Francisco Elson?





I was just told by a reliable source :smokin


That his rebounding numbers were similar to Rasho at 3.3 a game.
You cant get many boards without many minutes

[timvp]

When in the hell did I ever hype Francisco Elson?

Check your sig.


was just told by a reliable source :smokin


That his rebounding numbers were similar to Rasho at 3.3 a game.

Check minutes played.

[Kori Ellis]

Uh yeah he is. At 20 he averaged 10 boards per 40 minutes. That's pretty impressive and the highest rebounding rate for any free agent other than Reggie Evans.

I'm glad you are not hyping him like you did the last three centers (Rasho, Nazr, Francisco) :)

Butler's rebounding rate is about the between Rasho and Nazr. You don't think either one of them are good rebounders, so you can't tout Butler as being a good rebounder.

Just say that he's young and has a lot of potential.

[T Park]

Now

Let Elson get matched.

Sign Ian.


Take the rest of the MLE and sign up a Ariza or whoever else, call it a summer, make room for trophy number 4 :smokin :sombrero:

[boutons_]

ok, I trust you guys that this guy is ok.

I hope Pop's Director of whatever tells this guy to come to camp with 15% body fat, max.

[Kori Ellis]

So everyone is cool with Butler as a starter? Or just relieved to have anyone sign with the Spurs at this point?

[MoSpur]

Great news. I am glad NY decided not to match. We actually have someone under 21.

[T Park]

Check your sig.



:lmao


All it says is


"The next Spurs center?"


lmao

how is that HYPING someone?


BTW Elson looks like he can push your Evans guy around not too bad in that pic too.



We will see if he is a good rebounder, like Kori said, his numbers are between Rasho and Nazr, and they weren't good.

[waly.mg]

The Only Q for me is:

Why we sign a 21 years old Center for 7 millions/3 years and not sign Ian Mahinmi for 2,5 millions and 19 years

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Y'all better be right about this guy. I don't know why but I keep having doubts.

[ChumpDumper]

ok, I trust you guys that this guy is ok.

I hope Pop's Director of whatever tells this guy to come to camp with 15% body fat, max.Just send him to workout with JR Smith's father.

[Kori Ellis]

The Only Q for me is:

Why we sign a 21 years old Center for 7 millions/3 years and not sign Ian Mahinmi for 2,5 millions and 19 years

I'm guessing because they don't think Ian is ready for the NBA.

[mardigan]

Butler's rebounding rate is about the between Rasho and Nazr. You don't think either one of them are good rebounders, so you can't tout Butler as being a good rebounder.

Just say that he's young and has a lot of potential.
Rasho and Nazr had more minutes a game than Butler, and he still averaged around the same, or a little less, so I would say he is a better rebounder

Butler= 5.3 points, 3.5 boards, half a block, 54% fg, 75% free throw, 13 minutes a game

[ducks]

ian gets a 3-4 year deal because he is a first rounder

[phxspurfan]

http://www.nba.com/media/knicks/itpgal_butler_4.jpg

Welcome, enormous manchild. Welcome.

haha

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

i thought people would have liked a Butler/Elson combo at the 5. It would be a good mix

[ducks]

the offer was made to butler before the spurs saw ian in summer games also

[Mr. Body]

We can say he's an average to above average rebounder at this point. But some of rebounding is a skill you can learn.

We have to see if Duncan winds up taking rebounds away from him or, more likely, team % rebounds go up in general.

[Kori Ellis]

Rasho and Nazr had more minutes a game than Butler, and he still averaged around the same, or a little less, so I would say he is a better rebounder

Butler= 5.3 points, 3.5 boards, half a block, 54% fg, 75% free throw, 13 minutes a game


I know. I did rebounders per 40 min. Butler is much less than Nazr. He's above Rasho's stats for this past season (but not his career stats or anything).

[timvp]

Butler's rebounding rate is about the between Rasho and Nazr. You don't think either one of them are good rebounders, so you can't tout Butler as being a good rebounder.

Just say that he's young and has a lot of potential.

I said last year that Nazr wasn't a good defensive rebounder. The second half of the year he stopped getting d-boards. But overall, Nazr is and has always been one of the better rebounders in the league.

As far as centers in the league, Butler is an above average rebounder. For 20 year old centers, he was damn good last year.

:smokin

[wildbill2u]

I think it's disgraceful that CIA Pop uses those pictures of Isaiah and Magic in the showers to make him do whatever he wants on trades.

And he must be selling copies of the pics cheap to every GM in the League.

[mardigan]

Rasho, 19 min a game, 4 rebounds a game, Nazr, 19 min a game, 5 boards, butler isnt between that he is better than that

[T Park]

I think it's disgraceful that CIA Pop uses those pictures of Isaiah and Magic in the showers to make him do whatever he wants on trades.

And he must be selling copies of the pics cheap to every GM in the League


:lmao

Gross picture but hilarious.

[ObiwanGinobili]

woooot! :princess













(has it been said that this offseason sucks?)

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I think it's disgraceful that CIA Pop uses those pictures of Isaiah and Magic in the showers to make him do whatever he wants on trades.

And he must be selling copies of the pics cheap to every GM in the League.

I think every NBA GM has the same exact pictures of Isiah

[Kori Ellis]

Rasho, 19 min a game, 4 rebounds a game, Nazr, 19 min a game, 5 boards, butler isnt between that he is better than that

Umm.. yes he is between them. Figure out the stats per 40 or per min or whatever you want to do. Nazr is much better than Jackie Butler. Rasho is worse.

[mardigan]

I know. I did rebounders per 40 min. Butler is much less than Nazr. He's above Rasho's stats for this past season (but not his career stats or anything).
How can he be worse than Nazr when Nazr only averaged 1 and a half boards more with 6 more min a game?

[ObiwanGinobili]

I think it's disgraceful that CIA Pop uses those pictures of Isaiah and Magic in the showers to make him do whatever he wants on trades.

And he must be selling copies of the pics cheap to every GM in the League.


:lmao priceless.
sig worthy.

[picnroll]

So everyone is cool with Butler as a starter? Or just relieved to have anyone sign with the Spurs at this point?
Most Knicks' fans are pretty high on Butler, The one critique you'll see some make is his commitment to D. If he puts in the effort and can pick up the Spurs defensive system fairly quickly he should be as good/better than Rasho or Nazr. I think he already brings more on the offensive end.

[spurster]

Can Butler guard Dirk?

[timvp]

Can Butler guard Dirk?

Maybe in a video game.

[mardigan]

Maybe in a video game.

I dont even think then

[ObiwanGinobili]

Can Butler guard Dirk?

since our defensive stategy hardly ever calls for our center to chase his player all over the 3 pt line..... I'm guessing no.


but straight up - most likely not. Dirk's a monster.

[Mr. Body]

Most Knicks' fans are pretty high on Butler, The one critique you'll see some make is his commitment to D. If he puts in the effort and can pick up the Spurs defensive system fairly quickly he should be as good/better than Rasho or Nazr. I think he already brings more on the offensive end.

This is a hard one to call. We've only seen him on the Knicks. Who weren't quite 'dedicated' to defense.

[T Park]

We do need to find a Dirk slower.

[Mr. Body]

We do need to find a Dirk slower.

Elson fouls the crap out of people. It's a specialty.

[Kori Ellis]

How can he be worse than Nazr when Nazr only averaged 1 and a half boards more with 6 more min a game?

Divide it yourself. Butler average 3.3 rebounds in 13.5 min. Nazr averaged 5.2 rebounds in 17.4 minutes.

Nazr = .299 rebounds per min
Rasho = .206 rpm
Butler = .244 rpm

Like I said... he's between Nazr and Rasho.

I like Butler and think he has a lot of potential. But don't think he should be touted as an above average rebounder. Lorenzen Wright rebounds better (per).

[waly.mg]

The Fact is:

Oberto someones sayed is an "undersized" center with 6´10" and Butler is 6´10" too

[ChumpDumper]

Can Dirk guard Butler?

:nutkick:

[timvp]

The Fact is:

Oberto someones sayed is an "undersized" center with 6´10" and Butler is 6´10" too

Problem is Oberto is really like 6'7. Plus Butler's wingspan is probably a foot longer.

[MoSpur]

Oberto is more like 6'7" or 6'8"

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Elson fouls the crap out of people. It's a specialty.

:smokin and he will foul them hard enough to make them think twice about going inside again :lol

[T Park]

Oberto is 6'10 like im Asian.

[mardigan]

Yeah, my minutos per game on Nazr was wrong, my bad. But at least hes got hands and shoots a relatively same free throw % as Nazr. There is a sweet highlight dunk of his on youtube, even though its short

[ShoogarBear]

So everyone is cool with Butler as a starter? Or just relieved to have anyone sign with the Spurs at this point?
I think the jury is still out.

If they do start him, I don't expect a lot at the beginning. What I do expect to see is significant strides over the course of the year. I would especially like to see him become a better rebounder, or really he won't be much help.

Pop will like this, though. He hates to have things settled at the beginning of the year.

[Leetonidas]

As I predicted. Now, let the rejoice commence. :smokin

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah, my minutos per game on Nazr was wrong, my bad. But at least hes got hands and shoots a relatively same free throw % as Nazr. There is a sweet highlight dunk of his on youtube, even though its short

I have seen him enough to know that I like him a lot. But I just think he's good for other reasons, other than being a "great" rebounder.

[MoSpur]

He doesn't have to do much scoring. All he has to do is focus on defensive and rebounding. That being said, he will do just fine.

[mardigan]

I think if we sign Elson as well, he will probably start in the early part of the season, then Butler will take over

[pache100]

:nutkick:

Won't Dirk get Dampier or Terry to do that?

[ducks]

elson and butler will be in shape for training camp fighting for the starting job if elson is not matched

[Mr. Body]

Butler an early candidate for Most Improved Player. David West with Chris Paul level.

[picnroll]

Can Dirk guard Butler?

:nutkick:
Nope.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm relieved, but we could still use a starter -- temporary (Elson) or permanent (insert fantasy trade here).

[mardigan]

I have seen him enough to know that I like him a lot. But I just think he's good for other reasons, other than being a "great" rebounder.

I agree, we havent had a young center with talent in a long time, big strong and tough

[timvp]

Butler won't start to begin the year. Pop will put Elson (or some other veteran stiff if Elson is matched) in the starting lineup to begin the year. If Butler proves himself in training camp and in his backup minutes, he could earn the starting spot by the All-Star break.

Butler is at the age that he should be going into his junior year of college. No way Pop lets him start right off the bat.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm still hoping a starting quality bigman (PF or C) emerges somehow through trade. I think the Butler signing is awesome but I don't think Elson/Butler improves the Spurs that much other than being cheaper and Butler's potential.

[tlongII]

Jackie Butler has never scored a single point against the Portland Trail Blazers. You guys are hosed.

[yavozerb]

So everyone is cool with Butler as a starter? Or just relieved to have anyone sign with the Spurs at this point?

Butler should not be a starter for a championship contender like the spurs!! They really need to go out and pick up a quality starter, say like maglore from the bucks. This give butler a year under his belt to pick up the defense and possibly the starter for next year..Butler will still be getting 15-20 minutes per game this year which is much more than he got with the knicks

[MoSpur]

I am not saying he is going to be another Jermaine O'Neal, but this signing reminds of when O'Neal went from Portland to Indiana. Again, not saying he is as good or going to be as good, but O'Neal did not blossom until he left Portland.

[picnroll]

Butler is a heady low post player with good footwork. Going against and watching TD every day in practice is going to make him a damn good offensive player. He's already a good one. Spurs went against the grain in giving him a three year deal and I think that's because they wanted to get those full Bird rights just in case.

[ChumpDumper]

Jackie Butler has never scored a single point against the Portland Trail Blazers. You guys are hosed.You mean Seattle....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Holy crap. Great news.

Thanks again Isiah :lmao

[Mr. Body]

I agree, we havent had a young center with talent in a long time, big strong and tough

The guy is massive. We haven't had a massive guy willing to use his weight in a while. Rasho was too timid.

Good times.

[mardigan]

We cant put links up if its NBA related right?

[Bruno]

FYI, Butler measurements :
Height without shoes : 6'8"
Height with shoes : 6'9.5"
Wingspan : 7'1.5"
Standing reach : 9'1"
Weight : 263

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

This is the guy Hollinger rated as the most underrated center in the NBA using PER and pro-rating it to full games. Let's see if he was right.

[timvp]

Next step is for Elson to get matched. Heck, I'd rather the Spurs got Scot Pollard. Even Jake Voskuhl has shown to be a player who won't play his worst basketball in the playoffs.

Use the Elson money to get a Long Three.

[Kori Ellis]

We cant put links up if its NBA related right?

Correct. No links or telling people where to find the link.

[tlongII]

You mean Seattle....

:flipoff

[ChumpDumper]

why everyone say 6'10 and 6'11Because he's 6'10"
in NBAspeak.

[mardigan]

Well it wasnt that great of a dunk anyway

[usckk]

I'm still hoping a starting quality bigman (PF or C) emerges somehow through trade. I think the Butler signing is awesome but I don't think Elson/Butler improves the Spurs that much other than being cheaper and Butler's potential.

I wonder how we're going to guard Dallas next year?

[T Park]

:lmao @ Mardigan

[sa_butta]

This is great I think we got a big body for cheap and this will prove dividends for us.

[Mr. Body]

Well it wasnt that great of a dunk anyway

You won't get great dunks out of this guy. Just powerful ones nobody blocks.

[DFW Spurs]

I call it. This is blasphemous but Butler will be the next "Malik Rose" and that’s not a bad thing. Just wait and see everyone..

[tlongII]

Butler is too small to play the 5. However, with Duncan he should be fine.

[Kori Ellis]

WOAI should be having some quotes from Butler soon.

[Kori Ellis]

Butler is too small to play the 5. However, with Duncan he should be fine.

That's all he plays .. the 5.

[Mr. Body]

Are we allowed to even mention video somewhere else?

There's another play on there involving a Nate Robinson-to-Butler-to-David Lee pass that's on there.

[Kori Ellis]

Everyone knows where to find video if they want it. There's no reason to always talk about it.

[weebo]

I wouldn't get my hopes up to high with this one. Butler is still an unknown. Some of you were at one point touting Rasho claiming how he would flourish playing alongside Duncan in a Spurs full proof system. Well, where's the stiff now? Same with Nazr. FAct is the Spurs FO dropped the ball on this one and had nowhere else to turn so they signed this stiff. Welcome aboard JButler sorry you had to come here.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

The summer is saved!!! :lol

It's certainly a step in the right direction, but I hope the FO is far from done.

[phxspurfan]

jarred jeffries

[Kori Ellis]

What was butler drafted?

I'm not sure what number, but it was in the 2005 AAPBL Draft

[JUUOT]

Butler won't start to begin the year. Pop will put Elson (or some other veteran stiff if Elson is matched) in the starting lineup to begin the year. If Butler proves himself in training camp and in his backup minutes, he could earn the starting spot by the All-Star break.

Butler is at the age that he should be going into his junior year of college. No way Pop lets him start right off the bat.

tony parker anyone?

[Mr. Body]

I can only hope the Spurs run some plays on the block for this guy. His offensive game is too good to leave undeveloped only getting dump-off passes.

[T Park]

FAct is the Spurs FO dropped the ball on this one and had nowhere else to turn so they signed this stiff

Who should they have gotten? :rolleyes

[strangeweather]

:elephant :elephant :elephant


I'm relieved, but we could still use a starter -- temporary (Elson) or permanent (insert fantasy trade here).
Agreed. As basically unimpressive as Elson is, I'm still hoping we get him just so we have that spot filled. $3M a year isn't that expensive, and 2 years is nothing.

But more importantly, did I mention
:elephant :elephant :elephant

[tlongII]

That's all he plays .. the 5.

Understood. He's still too small though. He can get away with it in San Antonio since Duncan will guard the bigger centers.

[SenorSpur]

So everyone is cool with Butler as a starter? Or just relieved to have anyone sign with the Spurs at this point?

A lil' bit of both. I'm relieved to finally see someone, not named Jacque Vaughn, finally want to come here. It's good to have Butler in the fold. I also like the fact that he is a young, developing, relatively inexpensive, frontline presence.

Though I doubt that he would or should start, he was obviously the better choice of the two FAs targeted. We'll now see what happens with Elson. If the Nuggets match, the Spurs need to target another prospective starter at the 5 spot.

I still hope the Spurs focus their attention toward acquiiring that much-needed, athleticially-gifted 3-man (Ariza or Woods). Another trip to the pool of NY Knicks FAs would be in order.

[Kori Ellis]

parker must have done something right.

No way horry starts, no way duncan moves over, no way other center is available (as of now) bulter's chances of starting are pretty big.

hopefully he can play a few games in the summer league.
Summer league ends Friday and I don't think his deal will go through until tomorrow. So I doubt it.

[degenerate_gambler]

Nice.

A young guy with skills learning from the master of footwork and fundamentals everyday in practice.

[infinite styles]

I wouldn't get my hopes up to high with this one. Butler is still an unknown. Some of you were at one point touting Rasho claiming how he would flourish playing alongside Duncan in a Spurs full proof system. Well, where's the stiff now? Same with Nazr. FAct is the Spurs FO dropped the ball on this one and had nowhere else to turn so they signed this stiff. Welcome aboard JButler sorry you had to come here.

Now aren't you just a bundle of joy.

[tlongII]

I'm not sure what number, but it was in the 2005 AAPBL Draft

He was undrafted, but signed by the Knicks as a free agent from the CBA.

[spur219]

Well we will see what happens. Butler is young and has a good upside. As of now he is not a starting caliber center and is still very raw offensively and is usually a step slow on defense. As potenital I like Butler but as of skills now he will not be consistent. He will have a couple of good games and have streaks where is a no show. Hopefully Pop will mold him to a good consistent contributing center. Now I just hope the Nuggets do match Elson's sheet. Cuz him as a Spurs will be a waste of a roster spot.

[Kori Ellis]

He was undrafted, but signed by the Knicks as a free agent from the CBA.

I know he was undrafted in the NBA and played in the CBA. He was drafted in the 2005 AAPBL Draft but then the league went bankrupt.

[cheguevara]

jarred jeffries

what? get him? I'm down for that

[sa_butta]

He was undrafted, but signed by the Knicks as a free agent from the CBA.
NEW YORK -- Jackie Butler, a 19-year-old center from the CBA, signed with the New York Knicks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nyk) on Sunday to fill their active roster.

Butler, 6-foot-10 and 250 pounds, signed as a free agent for the rest of the season. He was averaging 18.1 points, 10.7 rebounds and 1.45 blocks this season for the Great Lakes Storm. Butler finished high school in Virginia Beach, Va., and was not selected as an early entry candidate in the 2004 draft.

His addition is another move for a Knicks team that is 23-33 and last in the Atlantic Division. New York beat Indiana on Saturday night to win consecutive games for the first time since late December.

Before the trade deadline, New York acquired two first-round draft picks and forward Malik Rose (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3134) from San Antonio and forward Maurice Taylor (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3184) from Houston. The Knicks sent Nazr Mohammed (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3272) and Jamison Brewer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3550) to San Antonio and Vin Baker (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=1279), Moochie Norris (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3129) and a No. 2 pick to the Rockets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=2001376

[timvp]

Spurs fans holding out for a better big will be disappointed. The Spurs don't have the players to go out and get a big. We can pretend that Barry or Eric Williams will be enough, but the truth is the Spurs would have to be willing to take back a bad contract to get a decent big. And we all know they won't do that.

Elson (or Wright/Pollard/Voskuhl/Stiff) and Butler are going to have to be good enough and give the Spurs at least what Rasho and Nazr did.

Now the question is whether the Spurs can go out and find a Derrick McKey type player to help against the quicker teams in the league.

[yavozerb]

I think it says alot about the kid also that he survived his stay in the big apple with no negative issues and was one of the few who upped their stock playing on that crappy team!!

[Mr. Body]

Maybe he can live with Duncan for a while. Ask Amy if she minds. He can copy Tim's every move. Holding his cereal spoon exactly the same way, rolling the D&D dice exactly the same way, etc.

[SenorSpur]

Now the question is whether the Spurs can go out and find a Derrick McKey type player to help against the quicker teams in the league.

Viva Woods or Ariza

[tlongII]

I know he was undrafted in the NBA and played in the CBA. He was drafted in the 2005 AAPBL Draft but then the league went bankrupt.


Early entry candidate out of high school in 2004 NBA Draft, but went undrafted. . .Signed by Knicks as a free agent on Feb 27, 2005

Not my words...

[Supergirl]

Umm.. yes he is between them. Figure out the stats per 40 or per min or whatever you want to do. Nazr is much better than Jackie Butler. Rasho is worse.

How do you figure Nazr is better? You mean just at rebounding?
Because anyone who makes everyone cringe when he touches the ball, because he's so prone to turnovers can't really be "better" can he?

[Spurologist]

Game. Set. Match.

or unmatch :lol

some good news

[Kori Ellis]

Not my words...

I don't understand what you are arguing with me.

[boutons_]

now, nuggs have to match, and we can go forward.

[sa_butta]

Maybe he can live with Duncan for a while. Ask Amy if she minds. He can copy Tim's every move. Holding his cereal spoon exactly the same way, rolling the D&D dice exactly the same way, etc.They could meet up at HEB when he gets here for some fully cooked chicken.

[timvp]

Viva Woods or Ariza

I'd take Woods in a second.

Their only chance at Ariza would be if Elson is matched and the Spurs throw $3M/year at him for at least four years.

[weebo]

Who should they have gotten? :rolleyes

Well there is where the problem lies. They get rid of their two centers without having signed any beforehand. That's how they fucked this one up. I don't necessarily disagree with this signing but some of you are acting like his the next savior. Get over it. He is here because there was nothing else the FO could do. At best he is plan D.

[Kori Ellis]

How do you figure Nazr is better? You mean just at rebounding?
Because anyone who makes everyone cringe when he touches the ball, because he's so prone to turnovers can't really be "better" can he?

We were only talking about rebounding. I guess you didn't read the whole conversation.

[sa_butta]

Well there is where the problem lies. They get rid of their two centers without having signed any beforehand. That's how they fucked this one up. I don't necessarily disagree with this signing but some of you are acting like his the next savior. Get over it. He is here because there was nothing else the FO could do. At best he is plan D.Plan D is going to be a 250+lb body clogging the lane and grabbing some boards for us. He is not by any means a superstar, but I think everyone agrees he along with another big body can fill the gap where Nazr and Rasho were.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Now Elson needs to get matched, and we can go tender an offer to Ariza. Sign Lo Wright for the LLE, and call it an offseason.

[DaSpurs#1]

i may be late to read this thread but this still deserves a
WOOT!!!

[tlongII]

I don't understand what you are arguing with me.

Never mind.

[texasqb2]

Two things........

1) I don't think I have ever seen more of Elson than the highlights lately, but I think he may be a candidate to throw out on Dirk....I think that is why we are so high on him, but who knows
2) The Knicks are just a joke. I just keep remembering them justifying the Nazr for Malik trade by saying Nazr wasn't a true 5. Malik has to be one of their biggest mistakes and that's saying something lately.

[strangeweather]

Now Elson needs to get matched, and we can go tender an offer to Ariza. Sign Lo Wright for the LLE, and call it an offseason.
That would be brilliant, if it worked. Would Wright really sign for the LLE?

[Kori Ellis]

Now Elson needs to get matched, and we can go tender an offer to Ariza. Sign Lo Wright for the LLE, and call it an offseason.

I don't think they plan on using the LLE, but maybe he'll come for the minimum if they use the rest of the MLE on something else.

[beirmeistr]

Next step is for Elson to get matched. Heck, I'd rather the Spurs got Scot Pollard. Even Jake Voskuhl has shown to be a player who won't play his worst basketball in the playoffs.

Use the Elson money to get a Long Three.
Yea, let's go after that old hippie, Scot Pollard. He can run the floor pretty good and pretend to guard the paint.

[juncan]

good news ^ ^

btw. how about this guy's wingspan?

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/051116/051116_lakers_knicks_vmed10p.widec.jpg

[phxspurfan]

Agent: Songaila signs five-year, $23M deal with Wizards


jarred jeffries

[spursmode]

Well there is where the problem lies. They get rid of their two centers without having signed any beforehand. That's how they fucked this one up. I don't necessarily disagree with this signing but some of you are acting like his the next savior. Get over it. He is here because there was nothing else the FO could do. At best he is plan D.

I totally agree. Can he help? Maybe, but let's stop acting like he is some badass player. I've read posts stating that he has "massive upside" or that he is a really good player. I've yet to have anyone come back and state what they are basing this on. Fact: Undrafted, NBA numbers pretty unimpressive, slow, not that tall for his position. Fact: We were desperate because of the situation we put ourselves in.

[sprrs]

We were only talking about rebounding. I guess you didn't read the whole conversation.

How many of those .299 rpm were offensive rebounds? Nazr was much better at pulling offensive rebounds than defensive rebounds. Defensive rebounds were one of our major problems.

[timvp]

The way to think about Butler is to think of him as a lottery pick center. He's not going to be the answer right away but there is hope he could take over sooner rather than later.

Talking about the draft, if Butler were eligible for this draft, I would imagine he would have gone in the 5 to 9 range. I don't see him going after O'Bryant or before Shelden Williams.

:smokin

[alamo50]

So everyone is cool with Butler as a starter? Or just relieved to have anyone sign with the Spurs at this point?

:lol

No offcourse not!
I am laughing my ass off to all who were cussing about the worst offseason ever and now are jumping up and down because Jackie Butler is coming our way.

Butler is a BACKUP at most for the next few years.
Where is Magloire damned.....or Mihm or Wright?

:pctoss


If Denver will decline than Butler will be Elson's backup.
That's where we are right now.

AND THAT'S PATHETIC!!!

[timvp]

:lol

No offcourse not!
I am laughing my ass off to all who were cussing about the worst offseason ever and now are jumping up and down because Jackie Butler is coming our way.

Butler is a BACKUP at most for the next few years.
Where is Magloire damned.....or Mihm or Wright?

:pctoss


If Denver will decline than Butler will be Elson's backup.
That's where we are right now.

AND THAT'S PATHETIC!!!


You are closer to Elson than any of us.

Tell him San Antonio doesn't want him.

:smokin

[beirmeistr]

At the very least, Butler should be able to handle a pass under the basket from Manu or Tony better than Venus de Milo Mohammed.

[Ballcox]

Hell, I like this signing. Butler was definitely the guy I was hoping for, more so than Elson. From what I've seen of him he definitely has better hands than Nazr does and should be able to get some easy baskets when Tony/Manu drive and dish. If he can also provide some consistent rebounding I'll be really happy. All in all a good signing, doesn't necessarily address some of the defensive worries I have-particularly against teams like Dallas and Phoenix, but it's a start.

[alamo50]

The way to think about Butler is to think of him as a lottery pick center. He's not going to be the answer right away but there is hope he could take over sooner rather than later.

Talking about the draft, if Butler were eligible for this draft, I would imagine he would have gone in the 5 to 9 range. I don't see him going after O'Bryant or before Shelden Williams.

:smokin


Are you freakin' kidding me?

[velik_m]

Butler at 82games:
http://www.82games.com/0506/05NYK17D.HTM

he seems to play inside more than Rasho (less jumpers), has the same % of dunks, gets bloked more, doesn't draw fouls a whole lot (but more than Rasho :lol).
can't figure out what "hands rating" is, but it's lower than Nazr's or Rasho's.

[Mr. Body]

Jackie Butler is comparable or better than these big men drafted in the 2004 NBA Draft:

1st round: Rafael Araujo, Andris Biedrins, Robert Swift, Kris Humphries, Pavel Podkolzine; 2nd round: Peter John Ramos, Albert Miralles, Ha Seung-Jin, Pape Sow, Sergei Lishouk, Marcus Douthit, Sergi Karaulov.

These are comparable or a bit better:

Al Jefferson, David Harrison, Anderson Varejao.

These are without a doubt better:

Emeka Okafor, Dwight Howard.

[timvp]

Are you freakin' kidding me?


I don't see him going after O'Bryant or before Shelden Williams.

[ChumpDumper]

I was going to change my sig.

Are we still doomed?

[weebo]

Plan D is going to be a 250+lb body clogging the lane and grabbing some boards for us. He is not by any means a superstar, but I think everyone agrees he along with another big body can fill the gap where Nazr and Rasho were.
250lbs to help board and defend? Next you all will be hyping this guy up as the second coming of Charles Barkely. :rolleyes

[Kori Ellis]

I was going to change my sig.

Are we still doomed?

Still doomed for now :)

[Spurologist]

I was going to change my sig.

Are we still doomed?

loomed could fit better.

As in: verb: appear very large or occupy a commanding position

[Solid D]

Good news! :tu

[ChumpDumper]

loomed could fit betterI thought that meant we were woven.

[phxspurfan]

but when we get jeffries, watch out. only team that will compete with us is maybe phoenix

[waly.mg]

I found 1 stat

Ofensive Rebounds record: 7 @ San Antonio 02/27/06

In this game Butler was: 11 Points and 9 rebounds (7 OR) in 17:12 Minutes
Nazr 5 and 5 in 12 Minutes, without a OR in 12 minutes
Rasho 7 Points and 4 Rebounds in 20 Minutes
Oberto 7 Points and 4 Rb in 22 Minutes

[MoSpur]

I would like Wright to start for the Spurs next season and the Spurs go after Woods or Jeffries. I think he will accept the qualifying offer with the Wizzards and become an unrestricted free-agent next season.

[usckk]

Ric's analysis of the signing...
SportsNation Ric Bucher: (4:47 PM ET ) With Nazr and Rasho gone, they needed some size. Butler is the right price and athletic. I would expect you'll see the
Spurs go to a smaller lineup, though, that has Duncan playing center. It's the way of the league and it's the lineup they used for most of the playoffs.

[Mr. Body]

Why do people have a hard on for Jared Jeffries?

[timvp]

but when we get jeffries, watch out. only team that will compete with us is maybe phoenix

The Spurs' chance of getting Jeffries is about the same as the Suns getting Tim Duncan.

[Shank]

Welcome to the West, fatboy. I hope you like to run.

[phxspurfan]

Agent: Songaila signs five-year, $23M deal with Wizards

espn.com

[SenorSpur]

As good a news as this is, some questions still abound. Can this guy defend? Can he learn how to protect the rim? Can he provide solid rebounding? Can he develop into a true force in the paint on both ends?

Obviously these questions won't be answered for a while. Therefore, the Spurs still need another center who is a starting-caliber-type. (Wright, Mihm)

[ChumpDumper]

As good a news as this is, some questions still abound. Can this guy defend? Can he learn how to protect the rim? Can he provide solid rebounding? Can he develop into a true force in the paint on both ends?Wright and Mihm can do all these things?

[Kori Ellis]

Agent: Songaila signs five-year, $23M deal with Wizards

espn.com

Why do you keep repeating this post? Everyone knows. It's been known for days.

[Mr. Body]

As good a news as this is, some questions still abound. Can this guy defend? Can he learn how to protect the rim? Can he provide solid rebounding? Can he develop into a true force in the paint on both ends?

Obviously these questions won't be answered for a while. Therefore, the Spurs still need another center who is a starting-caliber-type. (Wright, Mihm)

I think he can do all those things, or else Larry Brown wouldn't have been so high on him. Defense was a hard sell on the Knicks, so it was hard to see Butler do well in that circumstance. Lots of guards blowing by Marbury and Crawford, breaking defenses immediately.

Butler should be good for 'suppressive' rebounding, i.e. corralling some of the offensive rebounds that were killing us, especially versus Dallas. We still need a good rebounding back-up SF (praying).

I'd be fine with Wright. Mihm would probably take Barry, and at this point I'd rather use Barry off the bench or, better, trade him somehow for that SF.

[Spurologist]

I thought that meant we were woven.

:lol

that is the other definition, I guess

[phxspurfan]

1. trying to get my post count up to 40,000

2. answering some bloke's question

[benjirh]

Duncan and Bonner start at least for the first part of the season. Butler, Horry, and Oberto split the time off the bench. If Elson is signed then Butler and Oberto will lose minutes.

[Mr. Body]

Bonner starting reads disaster to me. Talk about no rebounding. You simply can't play him and Bowen at the same time, IMO.

[Kori Ellis]

1. trying to get my post count up to 40,000

2. answering some bloke's question

Well stop.

[velik_m]

1. trying to get my post count up to 40,000


there are plenty of threads much more suited for that task.

[mardigan]

Who gives a shit about Songaila anyway. And Bonner wont star, no way. Either we sign Elson and he starts, are we sign someone out of left field who starts. Either way Bonner wont start, and Butler wont either unless he shows huge strides early in the season

[ashbeeigh]

1. trying to get my post count up to 40,000


You should try the trolls. They'd enjoy it.

And on topic, and way late. Yah for having a center. :elephant

[Buddy Holly]

Knick fans are pissed.

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5689

[benjirh]

I would rather start Bonner than Elson. I like Elson, but I see him as 15 mins off the bench. Who are we signing yet? I don't see it. I know everyone wants a big trade, but I think we rounded out our bench and we are planning on finley, barry, and williams covering the 2&3. We look for a small forward next year when we are looking for a guy who will need to fill in bigger minutes. Just my thoughts and I feel real good about it.

[Kori Ellis]

I wouldn't want to start Bonner because of lack of rebounding. I guess we'd start Elson (if he signs).

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Knick fans are pissed.

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5689

Maybe the Spurs would have taken James of the Knicks hands? :lmao

[phxspurfan]

knicks still have anthony mason? hes huge

[timvp]

I'm already counting down the days until Elson loses his starting job. If Elson is still starting in the playoffs it's going to be ugly.

[Mr. Body]

I'm already counting down the days until Elson loses his starting job. If Elson is still starting in the playoffs it's going to be ugly.

How long did it take Antonio Daniels to lose his job?

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I'm already counting down the days until Elson loses his starting job. If Elson is still starting in the playoffs it's going to be ugly.

Hey, If Elson scores 0 pts and grabs 0 rebounds, but knocks Nowitzki on his ass a few times, I will consider it an improvement over last year.

[Spurologist]

I wouldn't want to start Bonner because of lack of rebounding. I guess we'd start Elson (if he signs).

You don't think Butler is starting material??

Elson is a 7 footer but I'd hate to have a marshmellow for an inside presence.

[MoSpur]

Hey, If Elson scores 0 pts and grabs 0 rebounds, but knocks Nowitzki on his ass a few times, I will consider it an improvement over last year.

This is why I would like Elson on this team. He might not be that skilled or talented, but at least he makes his fouls count. I would have loved to have seen Dirk on his butt a few times during that series.

[tempest186]

While I don't think Elson is a great player, the one thing I wouldn't call him is a marshmallow. He plays very hard and physical.

[timvp]

You don't think Butler is starting material??


Butler is not going to start off the bat. Pop would never go with a 21-year-old center as his starter to begin the season. Perhaps Butler can win the job by the All-Star break but Pop will put some type of placeholder to start with.

[Mr. Body]

This is why I would like Elson on this team. He might not be that skilled or talented, but at least he makes his fouls count. I would have loved to have seen Dirk on his butt a few times during that series.

For what it's worth, I'm convinced this is a major reason they went for Elson in the first place.

[benjirh]

Part of going smaller is clearing out the other teams bigs on offense, thus giving timmy a stronger shot at a rb while at the same time hopefully having shooters cutting to the basket to get loose balls or long rebounds. On defense the plan doesn't work the same, but I really think that Bonner can hold his own compared to others. I am not sold on it, but I would be willing to try it for awhile.

[timvp]

You mean drive down his value so we won't re-sign him for less money.

:lol

Good one.

[Spurologist]

While I don't think Elson is a great player, the one thing I wouldn't call him is a marshmallow. He plays very hard and physical.

I was exagerrating a bit. I remembering him playing well in the playoffs hitting shot after shot and playing very hard. He was even the best player on the court during that time, but I'd like Butler to start @ C.

We'll C

[mardigan]

You don't think Butler is starting material??

Elson is a 7 footer but I'd hate to have a marshmellow for an inside presence.
I know he kind of sucks, but at least he will be the kind of big, knock you on your ass kind of player kind of like Kevin Willis was.

[MoSpur]

I totally forgot about Bonner.

[Spurologist]

Butler is not going to start off the bat. Pop would never go with a 21-year-old center as his starter to begin the season. Perhaps Butler can win the job by the All-Star break but Pop will put some type of placeholder to start with.

Did you think the same thing when pop started a 19 year old point guard

[MoSpur]

For what it's worth, I'm convinced this is a major reason they went for Elson in the first place.

It could be. It was a shame that neither Rasho, Horry, and even Duncan didn't lay Dirk out for a few seconds.

[timvp]

I was exagerrating a bit. I remembering him playing well in the playoffs hitting shot after shot and playing very hard. He was even the best player on the court during that time, but I'd like Butler to start @ C.

We'll C

Elson sucked in the playoffs worse than any player in any sport in any year ever sucked last season. Three points per 48 minutes. Barely any rebounds. No blocks in a five game series. And +/- that would make any other player in the league consider suicide.

[ducks]

going against brand is not easy though

still he should have done better

[timvp]

this thread hits 10 pages

Looks like we have a modern day timvp on our hands. :rolleyes

[Quadzilla99]

Butler should be able to beat out Elson pretty soon if he works hard. I could not imagine Elson being the starter wire to wire under any circumstance in my mind.

[mardigan]

Elson sucked in the playoffs worse than any player in any sport in any year ever sucked last season. Three points per 48 minutes. Barely any rebounds. No blocks in a five game series. And +/- that would make any other player in the league consider suicide.

Damn man, I just looked up his playoff stats from last year, and yikes, you were totally right, and now I dont know about ol' Elson.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

dont bring up the playoffs when your talking about Elson. Who on the Nuggets played good during the playoffs? Noone :lol

[wildbill2u]

Butler is not going to start off the bat. Pop would never go with a 21-year-old center as his starter to begin the season. Perhaps Butler can win the job by the All-Star break but Pop will put some type of placeholder to start with.

Yeah, Pop's not so foolish as to play a young guy in an important starting role--but I remember a certain young rookie who started at PG for the Spurs a few years ago--and PG is more important in making the team go than the center in our system.

Don't want to compare Tony and Butler, but Pop's not as hidebound about young players as Larry Brown.

[Spurologist]

Elson sucked in the playoffs worse than any player in any sport in any year ever sucked last season. Three points per 48 minutes. Barely any rebounds. No blocks in a five game series. And +/- that would make any other player in the league consider suicide.

It was one game and it was during only one stretch of that game.

And yes he consistently sucked in the playofffs.

For what it's worth, he has a decent outside shot.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

u guys can go by stats but ive seen Elson play and he is a great backup and even a worthy starter if need be. He does what you need him to, be a presence inside and be physical. The Nuggets already have a defending and rebounding machine but Camby was soft and Elson added a physical presence inside that was great.

Pop would be doing the right thing if he started Elson over Butler.

Although noone really has much idea yet about Elson getting matched.

[Buddy Holly]

Kori, does WOAI have the Butler quotes?

[mardigan]

dont bring up the playoffs when your talking about Elson. Who on the Nuggets played good during the playoffs? Noone :lol

No way man, Najera was a beast, modern day Barkley

[Spurologist]

diff times diff positions.

care to elaborate? So you're saying pop is more willing to take a risk on a rookie 19 year old euro than on a center who has some nba experience?

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, does WOAI have the Butler quotes?

I think they will be the time the 5pm news comes on. We'll see.

[Quadzilla99]

I just hopes he works hard and buys into the teams defensive concepts. Pop doesn't put up with people not being where they are supposed to be on defense. He'll bench you in a heartbeat if you miss a rotation or fall asleep on defense. Other than that I agree with everybody who says he will definitely beat out Elson before the year is over.

[timvp]

I just hope he doesn't get even fatter and buys into the teams defensive concepts. Pop doesn't put up with people not being where they are supposed to be on defense. He'll bench you in a heartbeat if you miss a rotation or fall asleep on defense. Other than that I agree with everybody who says he will definitely beat out Elson before the year is over.

Just say it.

:smokin

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

No way man, Najera was a beast, modern day Barkley

interesting you say that coz i heard Najera is one of the most wanted players in terms of a trade with Denver.

He is great and was a steal but he is expendable now we have LK (Linas Kleiza), very similar players except that Linas has more offense

[Quadzilla99]

Just say it.

:smokin
That's exaggerated I said he was a little overweight maybe I said it too much. I do like him I was very excited when the Knicks declined to match. Anyway I'll shut up about it.

[mardigan]

interesting you say that coz i heard Najera is one of the most wanted players in terms of a trade with Denver.

He is great and was a steal but he is expendable now we have LK (Linas Kleiza), very similar players except that Linas has more offense

Najera would be awesome on the Spurs, and he played high school ball here. And whats the deal with Smith, have yall gotten him yet or what?

[Drive Like Jehu]

Butler is not going to start off the bat. Pop would never go with a 21-year-old center as his starter to begin the season. Perhaps Butler can win the job by the All-Star break but Pop will put some type of placeholder to start with.


You are probably right about Butler not starting. However, I thought someting similar about Tony Parker starting at point guard when he first arrived. Of course it is equally valid to say Tony is a special player and an exception to the rule and it would be wrong to assume Butler is the same.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Najera would be awesome on the Spurs, and he played high school ball here. And whats the deal with Smith, have yall gotten him yet or what?

to be announced tomorrow :smokin