Okay, Horry defenders . . .

[ShoogarBear]

What's the point of even having him on the team if he's not going to be out on the court when we need a three at the end of the game?

If Pop doesn't believe in him, why should we?

[SequSpur]

Barry is one of the league leaders and he was wiping up sweat under the basket between plays, during timeouts and after the game.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What's wrong with you Shoog? Don't you know the play for Bowen was brilliant?

[ShoogarBear]

I don't expect Brent Barry to necessarily be in at the end of the game.

But we've been hearing all year how Horry's around for the special moments in the special games. Well, this was one. And we got to see Fabricio Oberto and Bruce Bowen.

[VaSpursFan]

why didn't he take a fucking shot???

[ShoogarBear]

I don't have a problem with the play drawn up, but the personnel. Can anyone remember the last game winner Bruce Bowen hit?

It seems even Pop's given up on Horry.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

why didn't he take a fucking shot???

I'm glad he didn't shoot

he woudl've just gone 1-3 and helped give the game away with finley, barry, udrih, and bowen


How in god's name this team even hit 100 points once, let alone averaged that much is beyond me

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs move to the equivalent of running the ball and prevent D in the 2nd half.

[Man Mountain]

..
It seems even Pop's given up on Horry.

Yeah I thought that too. Lately he hasn't been around in critical moments.

But I'm just sick of small ball. Too many stretches of small ball again tonight.

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, yeah, and I thought this was supposed to be the dawn of the Matt Bonner era, too.

I think he might have been able to at least grab some of those 20,000 offensive rebounds the Mavs got in the second half.

[timvp]

What's the point of even having him on the team if he's not going to be out on the court when we need a three at the end of the game?

Oberto was in there to set a screen. The play was designed to get a wide open three in the opposite corner ... and the play worked.

You run a Horry/Manu pick-and-roll and the players can just switch because Horry can't set nearly as good of a pick as Oberto can. The Mavs had to send help, Duncan picked off the rotating defender and the play worked perfectly.

What would Horry being on the floor have changed for the better? :lol

Spurs fans are classic. They use Manu last year as a decoy and Barry luckily bounces in a three and Spurs fans praise the play. This time, they run almost the same play and Spurs fan get all whiney :madrun

[timvp]

Oh, yeah, and I thought this was supposed to be the dawn of the Matt Bonner era, too.

I think he might have been able to at least grab some of those 20,000 offensive rebounds the Mavs got in the second half.

Yeah, Bonner grabbed two rebounds in two minutes. That obviously was against the game plan. It just wouldn't be a Spurs vs. Mavs game if Dallas didn't dominate the boards.

This makes what like 11 or 12 straight games the Mavs have outrebounded the Spurs? I've lost count.

[MannyIsGod]

The play worked and was executed very well. I just wish we had someone else to put in that corner. But honestly, who? Horry hadn't hit shit all game. Barry hadn't hit shit all game. Finley hit a few things, but for the most part wasn't on. Bonner didn't even get any burn.

The Spurs need SOME outside shooting outside of Manu if they're going to compete.

[MannyIsGod]

I need to look up the 3rd Q rebounding stats, because I swear to god that Dallas had at least twice as many as the Spurs. Thats just sick.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I need to look up the 3rd Q rebounding stats, because I swear to god that Dallas had at least twice as many as the Spurs. Thats just sick.

Actually I believe they said on the broadcast it was 15-5.

[ShoogarBear]

a) Barry went 8/12 and 4/7 from 3 in the game against the Kings. Bowen is 2-17 and hasn't hit a 3 since the return of the leather ball. Running that play for someone who's hot is smart. Running it for someone who hasn't been throwing it in the ocean is not. (Unless said cold shooter is Robert Horry, or so we have been told.)

b) You still haven't answered the question: what do we have Horry around for?

[ShoogarBear]

The play worked and was executed very well. I just wish we had someone else to put in that corner. But honestly, who? Horry hadn't hit shit all game. Ah, but we keep hearing the beauty of Robert Horry is that he can be counted on to step up no matter how poorly he has been playing up to that point.

So is that true or not?

[MannyIsGod]

Heh, I called him out earlier in the year. I don't think he has much in the tank left. He stepped up his play for awhile, but he has the problem that virtually - no not virtually - EVERY bench player we have has. They all have no consistency. Outside of the big three, you can't count on anything on a nightly basis from this group.

[Rick Von Braun]

Oberto was in there to set a screen. The play was designed to get a wide open three in the opposite corner ... and the play worked.

You run a Horry/Manu pick-and-roll and the players can just switch because Horry can't set nearly as good of a pick as Oberto can. The Mavs had to send help, Duncan picked off the rotating defender and the play worked perfectly.

What would Horry being on the floor have changed for the better? :lol

Spurs fans are classic. They use Manu last year as a decoy and Barry luckily bounces in a three and Spurs fans praise the play. This time, they run almost the same play and Spurs fan get all whiney :madrun

Sorry, but I completely disagree with the choice of personnel... the play was great though.

For the last play I put Barry, Horry, Manu, Tim and Parker, with Parker driving to the basket and Manu open in the corner, with Tim and Horry screening for Manu and Barry at the top of the key for an alternate 3 point opportunity. Parker with penetration and two outlets for 3-pters in case Manu is not open in the corner.

Anyway, I think this is a bad loss. Is Tim a step or two slower lately? Is he with the flu? He played horrible both on offense and defense in the second half.

And yeah... fuck small ball... since last year I am tired of it. Finley playing PF is a horrible lineup statistically... I cannot believe Pop is so freaking stubborn to see it.

[timvp]

a) Barry went 8/12 and 4/7 from 3 in the game against the Kings. Bowen is 2-17 and hasn't hit a 3 since the return of the leather ball. Running that play for someone who's hot is smart. Running it for someone who hasn't been throwing it in the ocean is not. (Unless said cold shooter is Robert Horry, or so we have been told.)

Who did you want shooting the ball? I've already posted that I disagreed with the choice of Bowen. But Barry and Finley were bricking shots all day. Horry hadn't taken a shot.

And that play works because Manu is the one creating it. If Parker runs a pick-and-roll in that situation, they just go under the screen and force Parker to take the jumper. With Manu they have to run him off the three-pointer. And who else on the team (or the league for that matter) can make the cross court bounce pass under pressure to the shooter in the corner?

Bowen was a bad choice but out of Bowen, Finley and Barry ... Bowen was warm and showed more of a pulse than the other two.

[T Park]

That Pop, he should've had Ginobili run the play and shoot the shot.

Pop damn moron.

[1Parker1]

It's not even like Bruce missed the shot so badly either. He was wide open and got a chance to look at it for a good 5 seconds it seemed. Plus it was his shot, his spot. Manu made an incredible pass.

[ShoogarBear]

Who did you want shooting the ball? I've already posted that I disagreed with the choice of Bowen. But Barry and Finley were bricking shots all day. Horry hadn't taken a shot. Horry's rep is that he's supposed to hit that shot anway. Not having taken a shot prior would just be icing on the cake.

The best answer might have been Bonner, but only if Pop had given him 3rd quarter minutes in place of Barry like he should have anyway.

[ShoogarBear]

Look I love Bruce, but does anyone remember him hitting a last second game winner?

[timvp]

b) You still haven't answered the question: what do we have Horry around for?

WTF? You think Horry is around to set screens?

You think Horry was the one to go to in that situation? He hadn't taken a shot all night. If Pop had drawn up a play for Horry and he misses, the same fans would be in here crying about Horry getting the shot :madrun

Horry is around to hopefully do what he did in the 2005 run: play defense, get rebounds and make big plays during the course of the game. Not set a screen for Manu to force Dallas to send defenders and leave a player wide open in the other corner.

[ShoogarBear]

Okay, so no more Horry in last second 3 point situations, then.

timvp has spoken.

[timvp]

For the last play I put Barry, Horry, Manu, Tim and Parker, with Parker driving to the basket and Manu open in the corner, with Tim and Horry screening for Manu and Barry at the top of the key for an alternate 3 point opportunity. Parker with penetration and two outlets for 3-pters in case Manu is not open in the corner.

Um, all the Mavericks would have done is gone under the screen and the play would have been over.

[smeagol]

Shoog, Barry has been bricking threes for the last three of four games.

[MannyIsGod]

WTF? You think Horry is around to set screens?

You think Horry was the one to go to in that situation? He hadn't taken a shot all night. If Pop had drawn up a play for Horry and he misses, the same fans would be in here crying about Horry getting the shot :madrun

Horry is around to hopefully do what he did in the 2005 run: play defense, get rebounds and make big plays during the course of the game. Not set a screen for Manu to force Dallas to send defenders and leave a player wide open in the other corner.I don't think you HAVE to run the play that was run. If Horry is here to make big shots, Pop should be drawing up plays with that in mind. Of course that is if Horry is here to make big shots which as you just said is not the only thing thats expected of him.

Of course Shoog is just harping on this to show that Horry's uses to this team are on a much more limited basis than many fans care to realize.

Bonner is our best big outside of Tim Duncan right now, and god damn thats not a good thing. As much as I love Bonner's play and style, the Spurs need Elson or Horry to step up and provide more.

[timvp]

Look I love Bruce, but does anyone remember him hitting a last second game winner?

A) It would have tied the game.

B) There was this one game. I think it's referred to as Game 7 of the 2005 NBA Finals where Bowen hit a pretty huge three late.

C) Bowen is 23-44 from that spot this season. And rarely is he ever that wide open. I wouldn't have picked him to shoot it, but it's not exactly like he had Nazr spot up for three.

[1Parker1]

Look I love Bruce, but does anyone remember him hitting a last second game winner?


:lol Right now, I can't remember the last time anyone on the Spurs hit a last second game winner. Last years playoffs....

[timvp]

Okay, so no more Horry in last second 3 point situations, then.

timvp has spoken.

:dramaquee

[T Park]

:lol

[timvp]

I complain when Horry plays and I complain when he doesn't play. Don't try to figure it out.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

I love you guys.

[1Parker1]

:lol

[ShoogarBear]

A) It would have tied the game. I stand corrected but the point is the same.


B) There was this one game. I think it's referred to as Game 7 of the 2005 NBA Finals where Bowen hit a pretty huge three late.
Um, sorry but you'll have to grant there's a HUGE difference between hitting a shot when you're up and hitting one from behind. I can't ever recall Bruce doing the latter in the last seconds of a game.


C) Bowen is 23-44 from that spot this season. And rarely is he ever that wide open. I wouldn't have picked him to shoot it, but it's not exactly like he had Nazr spot up for three.Remind me again, was Bruce even on the court when Horry hit his Father's Day shot?

[ShoogarBear]

Um, no I just want to know from my betters when those clutch things Horry is going to do are supposed to happen.

Are we talking intrasquad games?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That Pop, he should've had Ginobili run the play and shoot the shot.

Pop damn moron.

You're dumb.

[supaphly119]

C) Bowen is 23-44 from that spot this season. And rarely is he ever that wide open. I wouldn't have picked him to shoot it, but it's not exactly like he had Nazr spot up for three.

rarely ever wide open? you must be joking. isn't that the entire point of bowen chilling on the wing...so he's wide open. bruce bowen isn't exactly the nba poster boy for clutch 3pt shooting. while i'm not totally against the call, he wasn't the best one for the shot...and it was even his shot.

[ShoogarBear]

It would have been a brilliant play to get Oberto the open look for the 3. The Mavs would never expect that.

[Kori Ellis]

Um, no I just want to know from my betters when those clutch things Horry is going to do are supposed to happen.

Are we talking intrasquad games?

Okay, Horry sucks. The next time he hits something big is going to be when he goes home with Paris Hilton.

Satisfied?

[1Parker1]

:lol Battle Blog!

[ShoogarBear]

You think Paris Hilton is big?

[T Park]

You're dumb.


Your reaction if that happens.

Notice the two word response.

Thank you.

[1Parker1]

Okay, Horry sucks. The next time he hits something big is going to be when he goes home with Paris Hilton.

:lmao :lmao That's sig worthy...

[Billy Cobham]

The Spurs should have gone to Ginobili on the last play. I laugh when I hear someone say he can't create his own shot. That's pretty much all he does! You gotta go with your horses down the stretch in a big game. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili are the Spurs' horses.

[Kori Ellis]

You think Paris Hilton is big?

I think her pussy is probably like the Grand Canyon.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Your reaction if that happens.

Notice the two word response.

Thank you.

Dude, you are. The last time I had this dumb of a conversation I was ordering fries at Mickey D's. You know the game of basketball about as well as you know the game of picking up a woman.

[Billy Cobham]

You think Paris Hilton is big?

Probably in some areas.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think her pussy is probably like the Grand Canyon.

:lol

[MannyIsGod]

Dude, you are. The last time I had this dumb of a conversation I was ordering fries at Mickey D's. You know the game of basketball about as well as you know the game of picking up a woman.Get your own material fuck twad. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I think her pussy is probably like the Grand Canyon.Horry may fall in and be gone forever.

[T Park]

Dude, you are. The last time I had this dumb of a conversation I was ordering fries at Mickey D's. You know the game of basketball about as well as you know the game of picking up a woman.

Insults, shocking.

Mr. Knowitall demands more bowing at his feet.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Get your own material fuck twad. :lol

Hey, I gave you credit, what more do you want? Sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade...

[Kori Ellis]

Insults, shocking.

Mr. Knowitall demands more bowing at his feet.
You told him you wished he die by a stingray or whatever in the other thread. I think you got some insults coming back your way.

[ShoogarBear]

I think her pussy is probably like the Grand Canyon.Maybe Horry should use her to practice his shot.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Insults, shocking.

Mr. Knowitall demands more bowing at his feet.


Look carny. When you say something like "isn't it time for you to go snorkeling and find a sting ray", which is completely classless and out of line, you can bet your fat ass I'm going to respond like I have.

If you can't take the heat, go break the ferris wheel or something.

[timvp]

Although some want to label him as a choker *cough*ShoogarBear*cough*, Bowen came into this game shooting 87.5% in the 4th quarter or overtime with less than 5 minutes left and neither team ahead by more than 5 points.

But where was Horry so I could complain about him being in there :madrun

[T Park]

Look carny. When you say something like "isn't it time for you to go snorkeling and find a sting ray", which is completely classless and out of line, you can bet your fat ass I'm going to respond like I have.




and youve never insulted me that bad before?


Whos the one that needs to butch up?

Fuck off.


You've insulted me, called me names, made fun of what i do 5000 times more, than what ive done to you.

Hell you think its funny, to quote other insults of me from other people.

Yeah, oh yeah, Im the one that started it all.

Take a look in the mirror dickwad, I had enough of your childish BS insulted me, and calling me names.


Guess turnabouts fair play now aint it dickweed.

[SequSpur]

and youve never insulted me that bad before?
Whos the one that needs to butch up?
Fuck off.
You've insulted me, called me names, made fun of what i do 5000 times more, than what ive done to you.
Hell you think its funny, to quote other insults of me from other people.
Yeah, oh yeah, Im the one that started it all.
Take a look in the mirror dickwad, I had enough of your childish BS insulted me, and calling me names.
Guess turnabouts fair play now aint it dickweed.

Wow.... you're awesome. :lmao

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

and youve never insulted me that bad before?


Whos the one that needs to butch up?

Fuck off.


You've insulted me, called me names, made fun of what i do 5000 times more, than what ive done to you.

Hell you think its funny, to quote other insults of me from other people.

Yeah, oh yeah, Im the one that started it all.

Take a look in the mirror dickwad, I had enough of your childish BS insulted me, and calling me names.


Guess turnabouts fair play now aint it dickweed.

Making fun of your fat ass <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< wishing someone was dead.

Shit man, everyone in this forum makes fun of your fat ass, do you wish everyone in the forum were dead?

The fact that you can't distinguish the difference between smack talk from death..... dude get some therapy. Or maybe another klondike bar. :lol

[Billy Cobham]

Although some want to label him as a choker *cough*ShoogarBear*cough*, Bowen came into this game shooting 87.5% in the 4th quarter or overtime with less than 5 minutes left and neither team ahead by more than 5 points.

But where was Horry so I could complain about him being in there :madrun

Weak argument. Bowen is 2-18 in the last 3 games and has made zero 3 point attempts. He has never been a player with an offensive game that opponents respected. You absolutely have to go to Ginobili in that situation.

[1Parker1]

Can AHF and TPark BOTH shut up now and go back to discussing the game?? You're ruining a perfectly entertaining thread... :)

[1Parker1]

Weak argument. Bowen is 2-18 in the last 3 games and has made zero 3 point attempts. He has never been a player with an offensive game that opponents respected. You absolutely have to go to Ginobili in that situation.

I think it comes down to: Do you want like the Spurs chances of taking a wide open 3 pointer or a highly contested 3 pointer?

[Billy Cobham]

I think it comes down to: Do you want like the Spurs chances of taking a wide open 3 pointer or a highly contested 3 pointer?

No, it comes down to : Do you want the ball in Ginobili's hands at the end of the game or do you want it in Bowen's hands? Easy question to answer.

[1Parker1]

No, it comes down to : Do you want the ball in Ginobili's hands at the end of the game or do you want it in Bowen's hands? Easy question to answer.


Well technically, it was in Ginobili's hands...he made a great pass cross court to Bruce. And you saw what happened as soon as Parker passed it to Ginobili when he was outside the 3 point line? About 3 Mavs flew towards him....hence the crazy cross court pass to a WIDE open Bruce.

[ShoogarBear]

Although some want to label him as a choker *cough*ShoogarBear*cough*, Link?



Bowen came into this game shooting 87.5% in the 4th quarter or overtime with less than 5 minutes left and neither team ahead by more than 5 points.
a) Link?
b) Nice stats, but of course they have nothing to do with the specific situation this discussion is about: last-possession (or, let's say, near-last possession) situations with the Spurs BEHIND.

So whatever argument you're trying to change this to, I'll give to you.

[timvp]

I think it comes down to: Do you want like the Spurs chances of taking a wide open 3 pointer or a highly contested 3 pointer?

You can't win with Spurs fans unless the shot goes down. It's almost impossible for them to see a well executed play unless it has a positive outcome.

Pop could draw up a play for Larry Bird to come out of the stands and be wide open for three and Spurs fans would find something to complain about. Bowen misses a wide, wide open shot that if he makes, Spurs fans are talking about what a great call it was.

He missed so it's "Where's Horry", "Tony should draw multiple defenders out to the three-point line and then create", "Bowen doesn't hit big shots", "I can't believe Pop drew up a play for a missed shot" and other sideline quarterbacking.

[nobodi_home]

Best way to defend Horry is when he’s back in L.A. where he belongs.

[Billy Cobham]

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Lakers? A = Kobe.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Suns? A = Nash.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Mavs? A = Dirk.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Pistons? A = Billups.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Cavs? A = LeBron.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Wiz? A = Arenas.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Bucks? A = Redd.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Spurs? A = ???

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No, it comes down to : Do you want the ball in Ginobili's hands at the end of the game or do you want it in Bowen's hands? Easy question to answer.

Ding ding ding.

[1Parker1]

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Lakers? A = Kobe.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Suns? A = Nash.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Mavs? A = Dirk.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Pistons? A = Billups.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Cavs? A = LeBron.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Wiz? A = Arenas.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Bucks? A = Redd.

Who has the ball at the end of a close game for the Spurs? A = ???


I love Manu. But when was the last time he made a buzzer beat shot (much less a 3 pointer) a la Gilbert Arenas two nights ago or like Billups or Lebron, etc.? :lol

[Kori Ellis]

Well obviously they thought Manu wasn't going to be able to get open outside the 3 point line, or they would have gone to it. For all you guys know, Manu could have turned it over, shot an air ball or not got the shot off. I know it seems like an easy answer (and I said that I would have put the ball in Tony's hands and then tried to get Manu an open shot too). But it wasn't a horrible call to get Bruce that wide open in the corner (despite him sucking with the new old ball).

[ShoogarBear]

You can't win with Spurs fans unless the shot goes down. It's almost impossible for them to see a well executed play unless it has a positive outcome.

Pop could draw up a play for Larry Bird to come out of the stands and be wide open for three and Spurs fans would find something to complain about. Bowen misses a wide, wide open shot that if he makes, Spurs fans are talking about what a great call it was.

He missed so it's "Where's Horry", "Tony should draw multiple defenders out to the three-point line and then create", "Bowen doesn't hit big shots", "I can't believe Pop drew up a play for a missed shot" and other sideline quarterbacking.:lmao :lmao :lmao

If Brent Barry had missed that shot, you'd be the one leading the charge.

[nobodi_home]

Oh me, some nasty comments in this thread. Piss on all that personal attack stuff. Aren't we all spurs fans here? Fighting each other ain't cool>....

[Billy Cobham]

I love Manu. But when was the last time he made a buzzer beat shot (much less a 3 pointer) a la Gilbert Arenas two nights ago or like Billups or Lebron, etc.? :lol

Hell if I know. I rarely watch the Spurs. I just know he's their best clutch player on the perimeter.

[SequSpur]

Well obviously they thought Manu wasn't going to be able to get open outside the 3 point line, or they would have gone to it. For all you guys know, Manu could have turned it over, shot an air ball or not got the shot off. I know it seems like an easy answer (and I said that I would have put the ball in Tony's hands and then tried to get Manu an open shot too). But it wasn't a horrible call to get Bruce that wide open in the corner (despite him sucking with the new old ball).

Kori, it was horrible.

[nobodi_home]

Yea, I bet Barry was glad to be sitting on the bench at the end of this one. Imagine the outrage if Barry had missed a game-winner?? Lord have mercy on his wretched soul..

[timvp]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

If Brent Barry had missed that shot, you'd be the one leading the charge.

Yeah, obviously seeing as timvp is the one who has defended the last two end of game calls.

Good catch. :dramaquee

[Billy Cobham]

Yeah, obviously seeing as timvp is the one who has defended the last two end of game calls.

Good catch. :dramaquee

Did you have steak or seafood?

[pseudofan]

Your mother's a WHORE!!!!! Oh, sorry... I thought this was the childish insults thread...

Look, I don't see what the big deal is. Bowen had a good look at the shot that would tie the game. He missed, not airball missed, he just didn't get the bounce like most of the spurs all night couldn't get. Sure it could've been a million other plays to call that might have worked, but you can't be upset about a wide open look that just doesn't get the bounce.... jeez!

I think the bigger issue (aside from hijacking perfectly good threads with childish rants) is how the spurs as a team played the entire night, not just this last shot...

The spurs collectively had their heads up their asses, possibly even up each other's asses....period.

[SenorSpur]

Pop is an asswipe who is only concerned with collecting an endless supply of old players.

I mean what coach in his right mind would've singed NVE last sumer?

What coach would dare to try his hand at "small ball" with so much age on the perimeter? It's not as though Pop was without warning last spring.