Josh childress

[silk]

Don't you think he would be an ideal small forward can defend block rebound and take good shots in a small ball line-up would be great but also in SF with manu SG vs the mavs it coul make terry a defensive liability and force the mavs to adapt their line-up to ours for once...lol

I read somewhere spurs are exploring this option among others but what could it take to get him? if i'm the hawks i keep him no matter what but GM can often make some strange things..

[spurtime]

And the Hawks would demand one of the big 3 for him, which makes it a non-starter, unfortunately.

[Mr. Body]

Chilly would be awesome but right now IMO he's their second best player behind Joe Johnson. They have a glut of SFs but Childress is too expensive for us.

[50 cent]

Maybe the Cavs will send us Lebron for Beno and a 2nd rounder. That would be sweet too.

Dream on.

[silk]

Stop being sarcastic i just wrote a thought i didn't write he will come here for our crap as you put it just how sweet it would be


Some of you guys need to really try to read the whole thoughts and understand it in his specificity before reacting harschly and not always reduce it to the dreamers that need to be bashed by the realist ( frustrate?) It's just a kind of respect for yourself and the other that ups the level of a board i think..

[Mr. Body]

some of you guys need to learn how to speak with a little respect even on a board

Don't worry about it. You'll grow some thick skin, especially around here. Childress is one of my favorite players (and own him in fantasy league), but he's out of our range. If Beno and Butler showed any promise at all to become full-time starters, I could see a package because the Hawks need a PG and size. But we don't have those good prospects.

[silk]

I prefer to begin by saying i absolutely Don't mean to say beno will get us lebron or kg or oden....

But here we really see beno as a very poor player ( me the first) But is it the case of other GM? this summer and one month ago beno seem to be viewed as a solid back_up some teams called for him and clippers doesn'( seem to despise him now his last outing didn't helped his cause but yet maybe they see some potential that us ceases to see

I mean we often underestimate ( or overestimate) the values of our players and other teams often has trouble to esteem the true values of a plyer ( see isiah thomas) It is one of the reason why it is so difficul to predict the trades i think

Too bad Butler will certainly not play this year with hollinger on espn we could have maximized his trade value

[AFBlue]

As much as the Hawks FO and especially Woodson love J-Child, the ownership situation makes nearly anything possible. If the ownership battle in court brings control back to Belkin, then Knight, Woodson, and every player are in jeopardy of being shipped out of town.

If the ownership situation stabilizes though, the Hawks will do their best to make Childress, Smith, and Marvin Williams work.

My thought is that none of them will go anywhere soon.

[SenorSpur]

Would love to get a hold of Chilly. He would be a very good player in this system for a long time to come. Don't think it's possible though.

[ChumpDumper]

I read somewhere spurs are exploring this optionIt was probably here in some fantasy trade post.

[silk]

Possible but it could also be on a french article some times ago But that's not really the main question lol

[timvp]

I honestly can't think of a way the Spurs could get Childress unless they packaged something like Beno, Scola and two first round picks.

[Mr. Body]

It was probably here in some fantasy trade post.

Yeah, it was probably me.

[silk]

I would do that trade but still not if i'm the hawks lol

[MarCowMar]

Well, the Hawks did give up on Diaw awfully early. With their glut of small forwards who will eventually be demanding contracts, something could happen down the line, maybe in a sign and trade.

I think some posters here underestimate what we can offer. We do have some solid young talent to offer (Scola, Udrih, Mahinmi) in combination with veterans with expiring contracts (Williams, Horry, Barry, Finley). Look at what Philly took back for Iverson and you gotta think anything could happen in the right situation.

[exstatic]

Josh Smith would be a better pickup. The dunk contest isn't everything, in fact, it's basically nothing. Smith is a defensive minded combo forward shot blocker.

Smith and Childress are both FA's this next summer, and the owner is a fucking tightwad, which means he will make them shitty extension offers, and they will play year 4, and be RFAs again in 2008. He's the fucker that didn't want to do the Joe Johnson deal, and he's back in the saddle again. He won't pay them both, and Childress is the better draw.

[bigdog]

i hate his fro. haha.

[Das Texan]

I honestly can't think of a way the Spurs could get Childress unless they packaged something like Beno, Scola and two first round picks.



if thats all it took...


make that shit happen.

[T Park]

No kidding. Unfortunately, he must be using sarcasm.

[AFBlue]

Well, the Hawks did give up on Diaw awfully early. With their glut of small forwards who will eventually be demanding contracts, something could happen down the line, maybe in a sign and trade.

I think some posters here underestimate what we can offer. We do have some solid young talent to offer (Scola, Udrih, Mahinmi) in combination with veterans with expiring contracts (Williams, Horry, Barry, Finley). Look at what Philly took back for Iverson and you gotta think anything could happen in the right situation.

Billy Knight, Hawks GM, is in love with every pick he's made and unless those individuals show little to no return (Diaw in his first two years), he's going to stick with them. Down the line, 2 or 3 years, the ownership and/or GM situation may have changed, so you might be right about giving one up.

I will tell you that the one SF Hawks fans and FO are least enamored with of the three is their "should've been chris paul" pick, Marvin Williams. They love J-Child for his scrappy play, shooting and :fro . And they love Smith because of his shot-blocking and highlight reel plays. Don't get me wrong, they still love Williams, but I think if push came to shove, they'd trade him to get back a legit PG.

As far as the prospects, you overvalue more than this forum undervalues them. I've said it a couple times before, but other GM's don't seem to pay attention to other teams' overseas talent, especially during the regular season. Scola has been a top 5 player in Europe for a while, but the Spurs have been unsuccessful in even using his rights to trade up a few spots. Until the Spurs bring their prospects from overseas, they won't have high value because the other GM's won't see them on a nightly basis.

[mountainballer]

I will tell you that the one SF Hawks fans and FO are least enamored with of the three is their "should've been chris paul" pick, Marvin Williams. They love J-Child for his scrappy play, shooting and :fro . And they love Smith because of his shot-blocking and highlight reel plays. Don't get me wrong, they still love Williams, but I think if push came to shove, they'd trade him to get back a legit PG.


you are right. so many people just look at the Hawks roster and say: "oh they have stockpiled SFs, they will be happy to get rid of one or two of them, even if they get less value in return". that is completly wrong.

first of all:
Hawks are not in a hurry. they are not a PO team and they won't be one next season, no matter waht move they do. (unless they somehow get KG or a compareable player, which I don't call realstic right now)
they can wait at least till deadline 2008 to decide who one of the three mentioned SFs they want to keep. they likely won't resign all three, but as lang as all three are on rookie contracts, they can be patient.
summer 2008 is their crucial moment.
then they will have tons of cap-space and maybe even a Greg Oden to build around.
they also won't trade away for example Marvin (who shows nice improvement this year and still is only 20) this year and risk, that he breaks out somewhere else and maybe finally even ends up as the best player of the 2005 class. (not likely, but also not impossible).

or who knows, maybe they get the no.2 pick 2007 and pick Kevin Durant, even if he would be another player with the same qualities they already have. but even a team with already 15 SF/PFs wouldn't pass on Durant. they would pick him and THEN they would trade away Williams or Smith or Childress.

overall: as long as the Hornets don't offer Paul straight for Marvin Williams or Smith or Childress, the Haws will not trade any player out of their young core (this also includes Pachulia, Sheldon Williams)
time is on their side and they have the advatage, that the pressure on the franchise isn't as big as in LA or NY.

[picnroll]

He's the fucker that didn't want to do the Joe Johnson deal, and he's back in the saddle again. He won't pay them both, and Childress is the better draw.
More likely he's the fucker who knew if the Hawks held out they could have gotten Smith without giving up Diaw plus two lottery picks. btw that second lottery pick is likley to parlay the Suns into a top five draft pick in an extremely strong draft.

[exstatic]

I can't stand the way he shoots, not that it matters but it would annoy me. Side note: Salem Stoudimire is on the block, I like his game.
SS does one thing, and one thing only. He shoots the long ball. Last time I checked, his .330 would place him 8th on the Spurs. His .372 FG% is nothing to write home about, either, and his rebounds and assists are negligable. There's a reason he's on the block.

[TDMVPDPOY]

sheldon williams and childress make it happen

[exstatic]

More likely he's the fucker who knew if the Hawks held out they could have gotten Smith without giving up Diaw plus two lottery picks. btw that second lottery pick is likley to parlay the Suns into a top five draft pick in an extremely strong draft.
Diaw wasn't shit at the time, and Phoenix held matching rights, so they were dictating terms. Even a top 5 player may not turn out to be the quality of JJ, so it hasn't turned out to be too bad for ATL.

[picnroll]

Suns were sitting on a bunch of fat contracts, current and upcoming, and were not about to drop a load on Joe Johnson. Colangelo bluffed and picked the Hawks' pockets. When Kevin Durant or Noah is in a Suns uni next year instead of a Hawks' get back to me.

[exstatic]

They weren't going to let JJ walk for nothing. Worst case is they re-sign him, and either deal Marion (they were shopping him that summer) or deal JJ in December. I'd say it was a pretty safe bluff, and it worked.


When Kevin Durant or Noah is in a Suns uni next year instead of a Hawks' get back to me.
When either of those players develops into a 25/4/4/ player, and ATL has had 4-6 GREAT years of JJ in the mean time, get back to me. Diaw is the only coup or value add in that trade, and almost no one saw that coming. Short of Oden, there is no one that is going to be BETTER than Joe Johnson, and PHO would have to wait for them to develop. They have that luxury. ATL didn't, and they needed help immediately.

[mountainballer]

Suns were sitting on a bunch of fat contracts, current and upcoming, and were not about to drop a load on Joe Johnson. Colangelo bluffed and picked the Hawks' pockets. When Kevin Durant or Noah is in a Suns uni next year instead of a Hawks' get back to me.

no way Kevin Durant slips to no.4 in the draft. he will be no.2 when Oden declares and no.1 when Oden decides to stay in College.

[TDMVPDPOY]

JJ is overrated, look at how many times ginoboli has schooled him....

[picnroll]

Joe Johnson, coming off a year where he goes for 17 ppg in 40 mpg shooting .461 gets a max offer. Payroll in 2006-7 is now. Johnson $12, Marion $15, Stoudemire $12, Nash $10, Thomas $ 7. That's what, $56 million plus add a Barbosa's deal and a few scrubs salaries, start with Bell if you wanted him. I guess you could look for a buyer for Marion and subtract his 19 ppg on .515 shooting and 10 rebounds. God knows the Suns don't need the rebounding.

When Duran is better than Johnson? Kevin Durant will very likely be better than J Johnson. J Johnson is a good player but will NEVER be a franchise player. He's a Manu-type at best and Manu would nver whiff a title without a superstar or helluva supporting cast alongside him. Neither will Johnson. Durant has a reasonably good shot to be that superstar.

[exstatic]

RIF. I've already said that one of Johnson/Marion would have been moved. They probably wouldn't have acquired Kurt Thomas, either, if they were payroll crunched.

[mountainballer]

sorry guys, maybe I get you wrong, but way are you discussing this either Johnson or Durant or whoever?

the pick 2007 is top 3 protected. Durant will be a top 3 pick, no way he could ever slip out of this group.
so Durant will for sure NOT be a Sun, the chance that he ends up with the Hawks is there.

and I agree that Durant can not be compared to JJ.
Durant would have been the no.1 pick in any of the drafts since 2003 and he will be no.1 2007, if Oden stays in College.
sure there isn't a guarrantee that he will be a superstar, but since Lebron no other player has shown that much potential at this age.
JJ was a good but not outstanding college player and he developed into a good NBA player, but isn't and will never be a superstar like Durant could become.

[picnroll]

You are right. Suns won't get their hands on Durant short of himn staying at Texas and Hawks totally sucking in "08. Thank God for that. Nevertheless Hawks got taken to the woodshed on that deal. To get JJ on a max deal is questionable. To give up a shitload in exchange on top of that is totally dumbass.

[mountainballer]

Nevertheless Hawks got taken to the woodshed on that deal. To get JJ on a max deal is questionable. To give up a shitload in exchange on top of that is totally dumbass.

JJ is somehow overpayed, but this doesn't have anything to do with the trade it self.
I agree, that the Suns likely got the much better part, especially because they added 2 future first rounders.
but the end of the story will be told 2008 or later.
imagine the following scenario: Hawks win one of the first 3 picks 2007. they pick Oden, Durant or Noah (I guess they would pick him, if he is there).
the picked player is the big hit, he helps the Hawks to improve significantly (along with the improving young core). Hawks finish with 35 wins and the 2008 pick the Suns get is a no 10-15 pick. (in a likely not so good draft) the Hawks get 2008 a big name FA (they have tons of cap-space and might have an upcomming superstar to attract FAs). the next season they are back in the PO, so the second pick the suns get isn't that high.
what I want to say, there is still a chance than at the end of the day the trade doesn't look as bad as it looked 2006, when Diaw turned into the MIP.

[picnroll]

So the argument is that they might not have done so bad afterall because they were able to sign a guy for a max contract and still suck bad enough two years later as to not get burned by giving away draft picks, having qualified for a top two or three pick in the draft. Damn I wish the Spurs' FO was that skilled.

Maybe if Hawks FO was competent enough to draft Paul they wouldn't be this lucky. They've sucked from the JJ deal to present. Given the first pick next year they might draft Larry, Curly or Moe.

[mountainballer]

So the argument is that they might not have done so bad afterall because they were able to sign a guy for a max contract and still suck bad enough two years later as to not get burned by giving away draft picks, having qualified for a top two or three pick in the draft. Damn I wish the Spurs' FO was that skilled.


no. the trade was a very bad job by the FO. I just wanted to display a scenario, how they could get away with it.

(but I wouldn't want to revaluate all the moves of Spurs FO since 2002. they wouldn't look very well in such a ranking. they still live from the brilliant work after the TD draft, from 1997 to 2002. after this, or in other words, since RC is GM, they are just NBA average, or even below, IMO)

[picnroll]

(but I wouldn't want to revaluate all the moves of Spurs FO since 2002. they wouldn't look very well in such a ranking. they still live from the brilliant work after the TD draft, from 1997 to 2002. after this, or in other words, since RC is GM, they are just NBA average, or even below, IMO)
True. In my opinion since the SL showing of Mahinmi the Spurs' FO is now solidly in the category of disappointing and living on the fading memories of drafting Parker and Ginobili. Many FOs have past them by in recent years. Their plummet in the brains rankings began with the Kidd fiasco, passing up talent like Arenas and Howard.

[mountainballer]

Many FOs have past them by in recent years. Their plummet in the brains rankings began with the Kidd fiasco, passing up talent like Arenas and Howard.

I was thinking of starting a thread about such a question.

In my opinon this series of bad decisions began in 2002, with a move most no longer remember, or even talk about.
the trade of the rights to Gordan Giricek for just a 2nd round pick 2004 to the Grizzlies.
it was a brilliant move in 1999, when the Spurs aquired the rights for Giricek + a 2nd round pick for Leon Smith and a stupid move to almost give away the rights again.(beside the fact that the Spurs blew the pick on Romain Sato anyhow)
to me this is somehow symbolic for the difference in the quality of moves of the 1997-2002 period and 2002-today.

I don't want to talk about the player Giricek became in the NBA, I want to talk about his value 2002.
2001-2002 Giricek had his breakout season in the Euroleague, he was the leagues topscorer. his quality status was compareable to the one of Manu.
so he had increased his value for a lot since the draft 1999.
it is understandable, that the Spurs didn't want to bring in Manu and Giricek in the same year (beside, Gordan was traded away, before Manu had signed), but they handled this absolutly stupid.
Giricek signed a LLE 2 year contract with Grizzlies, so money wasn't the issue (like in case of Scola)
Spurs should have traded him for much more, or sign him and trade him during the season.

again, this move didn't hurt the Spurs chances overall, I tell all this just because IMO it was the start of many very bad moves.
(moves that might cost 2 more possible rings of the Duncan era)

[exstatic]

2001-2002 Giricek had his breakout season in the Euroleague, he was the leagues topscorer. his quality status was compareable to the one of Manu.
They were lucky to get a second round pick for him. Euros had almost NO value in the league at that point. Tony had just finished his rookie year, Dirk was a soft jumpshooter, and Manu had yet to make his presence known in the NBA.

[mountainballer]

They were lucky to get a second round pick for him. Euros had almost NO value in the league at that point. Tony had just finished his rookie year, Dirk was a soft jumpshooter, and Manu had yet to make his presence known in the NBA.

sorry, but what you say is totally wrong.
just do some research.
2002 the value of Euros was probably on a all-time high!!

Skita was picked at no.5
Nachbar at no. 15
Welch at no. 16

noone of them had the status in Europe Giricek had at this time! not even close. and it also wasn't about age and upside. Welch and Nachbar were already 22 when they were drafted. (only Skita was really young at 19, so that scouts could think he had that much upside left)

may I just remind you that Spurs had Krstic as their target, but he was "stolen" by the Nets two picks before. Spurs could have traded up by adding the rights of Giricek to their pick and get Krstic. just as a possibility.

[picnroll]

Undoubtedly Giricek was shopped and that was probably the best offer the Spurs could get.

[exstatic]

Undoubtedly Giricek was shopped and that was probably the best offer the Spurs could get.
That's what I'm sayin'. He was also basically forcing a trade by threatening to sign a long term deal in Europe if he wasn't on an NBA roster that year.

I can't believe that people are still carping about Giricek and bitching about second round picks that don't pan out. Folks, 50% of first round picks aren't in the league after their rookie contracts.