What it will take for the Spurs to make a trade??

[yavozerb]

What do you think must happen to open the eyes of the front office that changes are needed for this team to compete THIS YEAR!!

[LEONARD]

Spurs fans love to rip on Cuban, but I know deep down they wished they had an aggressive owner like him (without the wacky antics) that will do trades and spend money. I don't expect most to admit that though ;)

If the Spurs did anything before the deadline it would surprise me...

[objective]

What will keep the Spurs from signing old, marginal players this offseason is another good question?

[degenerate_gambler]

If the Spurs did anything before the deadline it would surprise me...


Agreed...Like it or loathe it, the FO isn't gonna do a thing.

[yavozerb]

I would feel much less value in winning a championship if I had to spend over 90 million dollars in doing so..The Spurs earn respect around the league cause they have already achieved this goal while not overspending in the process. It is funny to watch teams like the mavs and knicks try and buy championships and keep failing!!

[Extra Stout]

What do you think must happen to open the eyes of the front office that changes are needed for this team to compete THIS YEAR!!
They would have to see evidence that inaction would cause financial loss.

[Mr. Body]

You go to war with the army you've got, not the army you'd like to have.

There's not a trade they can make that will improve them right now without giving up the meager assets they need to improve the team in the future. Those, for example, wishing to drop a first rounder on Chucky Atkins are crazy.

[yavozerb]

There are ways to improve a team now and in the process improve for the future as well..That is the beauty of the contract, it is only binding for so long.

[LEONARD]

I would feel much less value in winning a championship if I had to spend over 90 million dollars in doing so..The Spurs earn respect around the league cause they have already achieved this goal while not overspending in the process. It is funny to watch teams like the mavs and knicks try and buy championships and keep failing!!

Comparing the Mavs and the Knicks is a BIT extreme considering the Mavs don't spend anywhere close to them, and they have the best record this year and went to the finals last year while the Knicks are horrible...

Remove the bad contracts that the Mavs are still paying on (ie, players not on the team) and their payroll is $66M...

[Budkin]

Spurs fans love to rip on Cuban, but I know deep down they wished they had an aggressive owner like him (without the wacky antics) that will do trades and spend money. I don't expect most to admit that though ;)

If the Spurs did anything before the deadline it would surprise me...

Agreed Leonard. I love what Cuban does as an owner for the Mavs and their fans and wish we wouldn't worry so much about staying on the cheap. It's really only his whining, huddle invading, and smarmyness I can't stand.

[Sobe_Kucks]

If Pop watched Pros Vs. Joes he'd see that Kevin Willis is still a beast. Even at 60 he's gotta be better than "Oberlson." :spin

[Budkin]

You go to war with the army you've got, not the army you'd like to have.

There's not a trade they can make that will improve them right now without giving up the meager assets they need to improve the team in the future. Those, for example, wishing to drop a first rounder on Chucky Atkins are crazy.

Ok Rumsfeld. That attitude worked real well for our troops didn't it? Just one trade could improve our chances greatly. We have no bench and we are still right in these games we are losing.

[Mr. Body]

Remove the bad contracts that the Mavs are still paying on (ie, players not on the team) and their payroll is $66M...

Similar issue with the Knicks, who are still paying Allan Houston this year, who comes off the books next.

[wildbill2u]

If you go to the 'reasonable trades' forum, you'll find a bunch of faux Gen. Mgrs. whipping themselves into a frenzy trying out every trade they can imagine.

The proposals range from the bizarre (14 players with 4 teams and the Spurs wind up with a great player) to the ungodly (Spurs trade for another over-the-hill, injured or mentally deficient player who doesn't fill the bill) to the absolute worst (Spurs trade one of Big Three for non-All star quality player).

In between these extremes are some folks who are actually trying to come up with a reasonable trade--but guess what. There hasn't been one proposed trade where everyone says, "Yeah, that'll work (money/mechanics), it's possible (both teams would want to trade that player) and would be a great move for both teams."

The reason most proposed trades break down on inspection is because they don't meet all of these parameters. The Spurs are simply in a weak position to make any 'reasonable' trade to help the team this year.

[yavozerb]

Comparing the Mavs and the Knicks is a BIT extreme considering the Mavs don't spend anywhere close to them, and they have the best record this year and went to the finals last year while the Knicks are horrible...

Remove the bad contracts that the Mavs are still paying on (ie, players not on the team) and their payroll is $66M...What do you mean remove the bad contracts??If every team could remove their bad contracts their would be no cap on spending..It would be nice to keep spending until you get it right but that is not reality. Most teams are an actual business not a hobby or toy. The Spurs approach it like a business while the mavs would spend near the knick level if it meant a champioship..

[Mr. Body]

If to the absolute worst (Spurs trade one of Big Three for non-All star quality player).


These are my favorites. I love the Jamal Crawford+David Lee for Manu Ginobili trades.

[T Park]

WHat will it take?

Another participating team.

Cause it takes two you guys know right?

[T Park]

I love the Jamal Crawford+David Lee for Manu Ginobili trades

Id actually do that trade.

[Mr. Body]

Id actually do that trade.

You're an idiot. But you make me laugh.

[T Park]

Yeah cause trading one 16 point a game guy for a starting center and starting 2 guard wouldn't work.

Whatever floats your Boat mrs javtokas.

[AFBlue]

Similar issue with the Knicks, who are still paying Allan Houston this year, who comes off the books next.

The Mavs have a bad contract (Dampier @ $10M), but the Knicks have a ton (James @ $5M+, Crawford @ $9M, Q @ $7M+, Jeffries @ $5M+, Francis @ $15M....).

It is a bit of a reach...

[T Park]

Tariq ABdul Wahad is also still on the records for multiple millions.

The guy they wouldn't trade for Rasho :lol

[LEONARD]

Similar issue with the Knicks, who are still paying Allan Houston this year, who comes off the books next.

That knocks them down to $118M or so...
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

I don't know their roster well enough to remove other crap salaries...


Agreed Leonard. I love what Cuban does as an owner for the Mavs and their fans and wish we wouldn't worry so much about staying on the cheap. It's really only his whining, huddle invading, and smarmyness I can't stand.

He's been ok this year. He's said a couple things and wore the t-shirt at the last game in SA but otherwise has been pretty quiet...

[yavozerb]

Mavs: salary #'s
still owe dampier 50 million thru 2011
still owe bradley 10 million thru 2008
still owe finley 35 million thru 2008
Not far from knick status!!

[regio]

These are my favorites. I love the Jamal Crawford+David Lee for Manu Ginobili trades.
I actually think it's a trade that benefits both the Nicks and the Spurs

[Mr. Body]

The Mavs have a bad contract (Dampier @ $10M), but the Knicks have a ton (James @ $5M+, Crawford @ $9M, Q @ $7M+, Jeffries @ $5M+, Francis @ $15M....).

It is a bit of a reach...

They shed a lot of salary after this year. Not a reach at all. James is a bad contract, but not a killer. Crawford, Q, Jeffries are all overpaid, but not terribly. Francis was a mistake, so you're right there. Dampier-level.

Knicks shed $50 million dollars worth of salary this summer.

[Sobe_Kucks]

He's been ok this year. He's said a couple things and wore the t-shirt at the last game in SA but otherwise has been pretty quiet...

Yeah but he still looks like Lerch from the Adam's family. With all that money why can't he hire somenone that can give him more than the "Herman Munster" look. :downspin:

[Mr. Body]

I actually think it's a trade that benefits both the Nicks and the Spurs

Fairly often Manu Ginobili is the best player the Spurs have. He is simply a game-changing talent.

From time to time, Jamal Crawford gets hot and can shoot a team to victory. But he's an extremely streaky player who doesn't do much else. Extremely streaky. His and Manu's clutch capabilities are about the same. David Lee is a nice piece, a very good rebounder and hustle guy. I root for the Knicks and like both of these players and absolutely hope the Spurs could get Lee.

But be serious. Are these two guys together worth Manu Ginobili? Absolutely not.

[LEONARD]

Yeah but he still looks like Lerch from the Adam's family. With all that money why can't he hire somenone that can give him more than the "Herman Munster" look. :downspin:

The fact that he is goofy looking is just another reason to like him...his goofiness is another thing that drives other teams' fans crazy :lol

[AFBlue]

They shed a lot of salary after this year. Not a reach at all. James is a bad contract, but not a killer. Crawford, Q, Jeffries are all overpaid, but not terribly. Francis was a mistake, so you're right there. Dampier-level.

Knicks shed $50 million dollars worth of salary this summer.

I'd call James a bad contract considering he counts $10M per year against the cap and doesn't play. It's the same for Malik. Neither of their contracts are outrageously huge, but they are horribly unjustified for what they give the Knicks.

Agree on Crawford and Q.

On Francis, it could be a Dampier-level mistake if he actually plays for them (Damp doesn't justify that salary, but at least he's a regular rotation member), but if he doesn't, I'd say it's bigger than a Dampier-level mistake. I see your point though.

[AFBlue]

Fairly often Manu Ginobili is the best player the Spurs have. He is simply a game-changing talent.

From time to time, Jamal Crawford gets hot and can shoot a team to victory. But he's an extremely streaky player who doesn't do much else. Extremely streaky. His and Manu's clutch capabilities are about the same. David Lee is a nice piece, a very good rebounder and hustle guy. I root for the Knicks and like both of these players and absolutely hope the Spurs could get Lee.

But be serious. Are these two guys together worth Manu Ginobili? Absolutely not.

Depends on Crawford actually. Crawford can be a good "scorer" and not just a shooter, but he would have to be seriously reigned in. If he's out-of-control, it's not a risk I'd personally be willing to take.

[yavozerb]

Mavs: salary #'s
still owe dampier 50 million thru 2011
still owe bradley 10 million thru 2008
still owe finley 35 million thru 2008
Not far from knick status!!
Again, its not just dampier that kills the mavs salary #s

[Marcus Bryant]

Wait, why are Spurs fans trading Manu?

[BeerIsGood!]

The Spurs don't need to trade Ginobili or Parker or TD. They need to re-evaluate everyone besides these three and see where they stand. Barry is still serviceable and contributes fairly well. Elson is inconsistent but coming along and needs more playing time with Oberto getting spot minute duty. Finley is flat out not performing at all, but makes peanuts from SA and could still be useful in spot duty as well. Bonner looked decent before the injury and could still be useful once he returns. Everyone else is unreliable or not NBA caliber and plans need to start being made now as to what to do in the offseason. There aren't any good options for this year left, so unless we are going to go after some released players or D-Leaguers this is going to be the lineup this year.

[AFBlue]

Wait, why are Spurs fans trading Manu?

Mr. Body felt that it was one of the many rediculous trade scenarios floating around, and then a couple posters (myself included) entertained the idea as improbable, but not insane...

[MoSpur]

I think the Spurs want to trade, but don't have anyone that others teams want. Maybe expiring contracts, but the Spurs aren't going to get exactly what they want by trading someone like Eric Williams. They need to add a backup point and someone who can score off the bench.

[Mr. Body]

Mr. Body felt that it was one of the many rediculous trade scenarios floating around, and then a couple posters (myself included) entertained the idea as improbable, but not insane...

They would feel it out, but Manu's the heart and soul of this team as much as Duncan. The guy I'd most likely trade of the 3 is Parker, but it'd have to be a significant deal and we'd have to have a PG replacement, which we don't have. I'd rather just blunder on until the 2008 Plan before trading anybody.

[AFBlue]

I'd rather just blunder on until the 2008 Plan before trading anybody.

You mean any of the big 3 right?

[Holt's Cat]

I think the Spurs want to trade, but don't have anyone that others teams want. Maybe expiring contracts, but the Spurs aren't going to get exactly what they want by trading someone like Eric Williams. They need to add a backup point and someone who can score off the bench.

The only way Williams has value is if you are willing to take back a long term contract in return.

[Mr. Body]

You mean any of the big 3 right?

Yeah.

[AFBlue]

The only way Williams has value is if you are willing to take back a long term contract in return.

If your definition of "long-term" is "longer than this year" then you are correct, but it doesn't have to be a Marcus Banks/Earl Watson-type contract. Arroyo/Duhon make $3-4M for the next two years. To be honest, I think I might actually prefer a 2yr contract for a backup PG...it would let me know that the Spurs don't absolutely HAVE to address the backup situation in the Summer and it would help out for the title run this year.

[Holt's Cat]

The Spurs are missing 3 guys:

1. Rebounding big man (avg 9+ a game) with a good outside shot. Ability to defend inside and outside a plus. DRob circa '03 comes to mind.
2. Athletic scoring swing with a solid 3 point stroke and good rebounding skills. (Jack from '03 or Posey)
3. Solid backup point guard (Claxton in '03).

The problem right now is the Spurs have a great top 3 and then a bunch of good 7-12 guys. The weakness in their 4-6 rotation spots is killing them.

[Holt's Cat]

Basically, any scenario that has the Spurs solving any of their weaknesses would involve taking back a long term contract. At least TD, Manu, and TP will have more time in the offseason to recover....

[AFBlue]

The Spurs are missing 3 guys:

1. Rebounding big man (avg 9+ a game) with a good outside shot. Ability to defend inside and outside a plus. DRob circa '03 comes to mind.
2. Athletic scoring swing with a solid 3 point stroke and good rebounding skills. (Jack from '03 or Posey)
3. Solid backup point guard (Claxton in '03).

The problem right now is the Spurs have a great top 3 and then a bunch of good 7-12 guys. The weakness in their 4-6 rotation spots is killing them.

Agree with you completely, but the Spurs also don't have the trade assets to fill all of those requirements, so they'll have to pick which one is most important and plausible.

IMO that is backup PG.

GMs usually don't like giving up size for nothing (see: Bobcats ask NJ for #1 pick for Ely), and no wing player seems available (Posey isn't a "scoring" wing, he's a spot-up shooter and not an improvement in that category), so the natural thought proceeds to using Williams' expiring contract to pick up an available player with 2 or so years left on it....and PG are the most available it would seem.

[AFBlue]

Basically, any scenario that has the Spurs solving any of their weaknesses would involve taking back a long term contract. At least TD, Manu, and TP will have more time in the offseason to recover....

There are a few players that don't violate the "08 Plan" and still satisfy a need (Arroyo, Duhon, Knight), but you and I agree on one thing...if they do nothing the Big 3 will be well rested for the 07-08 season.

[Maddog]

Spurs fans love to rip on Cuban, but I know deep down they wished they had an aggressive owner like him (without the wacky antics) that will do trades and spend money. I don't expect most to admit that though ;)

If the Spurs did anything before the deadline it would surprise me...

Not sure about Holts personal wealth but it is substantialy lower than Cubans
Per Forbes Cuban is 2.3 Billion, while Holt is not listed in the top 400 least amount 1 Billion).
Dallas operating Income last year per FOrbes -24 million, Spurs +11.

Holt doesn't have the huge pockets to absorb- or potentialy absorb spending that kind of money. I would like an owner a little less concerned about bottom line, but it's what we have.

http://www.forbes.com/home/free_forbes/2007/0212/084.html

[ArgSpursFan]

It´s just about getting a better support cast.that´s all.the big three is just fine.

[sabar]

The huge problem: Beno/Horry/Finley are MUCH worse than they were last year. Their trade value is non-existant as a result. Our backup PG spot is essentially non-existant. Our centers are, gasp, also worse, although cheaper I guess. I don't have a clue how Beno dropped 10% in his FG% or how the rest of our bench died in the offseason. I guess they just got one year too much older. Now we are stuck with them as they have no value. Only option is to hold out to 2008 or trade a big 3.

[objective]

Spurs would be better off with Barry at the point.

[bulletedge]

I would feel much less value in winning a championship if I had to spend over 90 million dollars in doing so..The Spurs earn respect around the league cause they have already achieved this goal while not overspending in the process. It is funny to watch teams like the mavs and knicks try and buy championships and keep failing!!

Who are you kidding? You'd take another championship under any circumstances. Pretend to take the high road if it makes you feel better- while you watch the Spurs dynasty recede into the past. The Spurs have been a great team but times change, the way the game is played evolves and those who adjust will win while those who don't will be left to reflect on their past glories.

[yavozerb]

Who are you kidding? You'd take another championship under any circumstances. Pretend to take the high road if it makes you feel better- while you watch the Spurs dynasty recede into the past. The Spurs have been a great team but times change, the way the game is played evolves and those who adjust will win while those who don't will be left to reflect on their past glories.
What does the game changing have to do with overpaying your players?

[bulletedge]

What does the game changing have to do with overpaying your players?

It relates inasmuch as ownership must be willing to spend on the acquisition of new bench talent more suited to the way the game is evolving. Repeated posts stating "Fuck Small Ball!!!" will not make small ball go away.

And, BTW, Dallas didn't overspend last offseason while adding a few players who have improved their team from last year. I.E.- George, Buckner, Croshere, Johnson.

And I still stand by my statement that virtually any Spurs fan would take a championship regardless of the payroll. (Make that any fan of any team in the league- myself included!)

[yavozerb]

Do you realize the mavs still over 50 million to dampier and over 30 million to finley..I will say that the howard deal was good and the terry deal was good in dollars but to long of a contract I think (2012)..

[Holt's Cat]

I'm going home and pouring me some Sambuca.

[bulletedge]

Do you realize the mavs still over 50 million to dampier and over 30 million to finley..I will say that the howard deal was good and the terry deal was good in dollars but to long of a contract I think (2012)..

I realize that. But, I have yet to see any listing of past NBA champs that also lists the total payroll. What's your point? You are happy with the Spurs payroll? Fine. Be proud of it. Just don't complain that your team is getting old- or that it is lacking in a few areas.

All we fans want is trophies...period. The Mavs may never win a championship but at least right now Mavs fans are not sitting around bitching because our owner won't spend any money- or because we have the two worst backup point guards in the league- or because we don't have a passably competent center, etc. etc. (Although I must say that Dampier has one of the worst pairs of hands I have ever seen in the NBA...he can't catch a cold)

[nkdlunch]

Spurs fans, there comes a time when we should give up the idea that a miraculous trade will change our team 180 degrees. The chance of this happening is less than 1%, especially since we have shit for tradeable assets. give it up.

[Holt's Cat]

Spurs fans, there comes a time when we should give up the idea that a miraculous trade will change our team 180 degrees. The chance of this happening is less than 1%, especially since we have shit for tradeable assets. give it up.

The problem is, they won't. So we won't at least see them try to develop some young rotational players.

[yavozerb]

NK I might agree with you if we were needing a #2 or 3 option to help elevate this team..What we are looking for is depth for this team esp. back up pg. I do agree with you that it will not make us all of a sudden champioship contenders (because we already that) but what it may give us is some consistency through the season.. A back up pg and rebounding big is what the spurs should be looking for, please let go of the long 3 idea!!