Mahinmi and Scola to meet

[JPB]

The draw of second phase of the euroleague (the top 16) has been announced yesterday.

Scolas' team (Vitoria) and Mahinmi's one (Pau-Horthez) are in the same group (4 groups of four), which means they gonna meet twice.
I suppose it's gonna be more simple for the spurs FO to follow them...

It's a good thing for Mahinmi that Pau is qualified for the top 16, which was not sure at the beginning of the season, cos he's gonna experience the high level in euroleague and will certainly learn in the process.

We'll see if he can continue to progress and play well like he is playing since the beginning of the year and what he can do against Europe top bigs, like Scola, at his still young age.

[ArgSpursFan]

The draw of second phase of the euroleague (the top 16) has been announced yesterday.

Scolas' team (Vitoria) and Mahinmi's one (Pau-Horthez) are in the same group (4 groups of four), which means they gonna meet twice.
I suppose it's gonna be more simple for the spurs FO to follow them...

It's a good thing for Mahinmi that Pau is qualified for the top 16, which was not sure at the beginning of the season, cos he's gonna experience the high level in euroleague and will certainly learn in the process.

We'll see if he can continue to progress and play well like he is playing since the beginning of the year and what he can do against Europe top bigs, like Scola, at his still young age.

it´ll be nice to watch,but at the same time aint to hard to realize who´s playing better out of the two guys right now.Scola was the Dec.MVP of Euroleague;and most likely will be the MVP of the year too.

[JPB]

it´ll be nice to watch,but at the same time aint to hard to realize who´s playing better out of the two guys right now.Scola was the Dec.MVP of Euroleague;and most likely will be the MVP of the year too.

No way I would compare them right now. Mahinmi is still a prospect, Scola, as you said, a possible MVP.
Still, that will be interesting to see how Mahinmi is doing against the cream of euroleague.

[cheguevara]

in Spurs Scola would be doing way better than Elson, Oberto, Finley, Horry. He's an instant decent bench player at worst.

[ArgSpursFan]

in Spurs Scola would be doing way better than Elson, Oberto, Finley, Horry. He's an instant decent bench player at worst.

No doubt,and that tells you how cheap Holt is,cause the spurs wouldn´t pay Scola´s actual team the reminding of his contract to bring him to the NBA.Stupids

[JPB]

I agree.
I was not thinking at the beginning that he would fit in SA cos of Duncan presence.
But I've seen him play recently and he looked very agressive, defending, rebounding...
He's also a nice touch and he's offensively light year ahead of SA bigs.
With this small ball thing, maybe he could coexist with duncan, with TD playing C.

[JPB]

correction

I agree.
I was not thinking at the beginning that he wouldn't fit in SA cos of Duncan presence.
But I've seen him play recently and he looked very agressive, defending, rebounding...
He's also a nice touch and he's offensively light year ahead of SA bigs.
With this small ball thing, maybe he could coexist with duncan, with TD playing C.

[Kori Ellis]

No doubt,and that tells you how cheap Holt is,cause the spurs wouldn´t pay Scola´s actual team the reminding of his contract to bring him to the NBA.Stupids

NBA teams can only pay $500K toward the buyout of a player's contract. So the Spurs couldn't pay Scola's actual team the remainder of his contract.

[MoSpur]

I know there were some words from either Scola or his agent. Maybe both, but do any of you think that the Spurs, Scola, and his agent can look pass that and have Scola playing for the Spurs next season???

[JPB]

No doubt,and that tells you how cheap Holt is,cause the spurs wouldn´t pay Scola´s actual team the reminding of his contract to bring him to the NBA.Stupids


Maybe it's because Spurs didn't need Holt not to be cheap since they were successfull.
With their recent problems, he might change his mind. :drunk

[ArgSpursFan]

NBA teams can only pay $500K toward the buyout of a player's contract. So the Spurs couldn't pay Scola's actual team the remainder of his contract.

so,is the reminding of his contract gonna be low enough to buy it out this off season,or they are gonna have to wait another year?

[AFBlue]

He's starting at PF by opening night of 07-08 season...book it!

[ChumpDumper]

so,is the reminding of his contract gonna be low enough to buy it out this off season,or they are gonna have to wait another year?His remaining contract <> the buyout amount.

[Kori Ellis]

so,is the reminding of his contract gonna be low enough to buy it out this off season,or they are gonna have to wait another year?


The buyout is between Scola and his team. I don't have any idea how much that buyout actually is.

I know the Spurs won't offer him a huge contract, but if he can take a reasonable contract from the Spurs and afford to pay his buyout from Tau, then I guess they'd bring him over.

[ArgSpursFan]

I know there were some words from either Scola or his agent. Maybe both, but do any of you think that the Spurs, Scola, and his agent can look pass that and have Scola playing for the Spurs next season???

Scola may give up some money but the spurs are gonna have to make it up to him and sign him with a better contract.

[JPB]

I know there were some words from either Scola or his agent. Maybe both, but do any of you think that the Spurs, Scola, and his agent can look pass that and have Scola playing for the Spurs next season???

Luis is willing to play in NBA, that's for sure. I don't know if there are issues but the presence of Manu and Fabio could certainly help here.

[ArgSpursFan]

The buyout is between Scola and his team. I don't have any idea how much that buyout actually is.

I know the Spurs won't offer him a huge contract, but if he can take a reasonable contract from the Spurs and afford to pay his buyout from Tau, then I guess they'd bring him over.

$3,5 M p/year is a decent contract I guess for Scola,considering that He would have to give up some money for the buy out.

[cheguevara]

I know there were some words from either Scola or his agent. Maybe both, but do any of you think that the Spurs, Scola, and his agent can look pass that and have Scola playing for the Spurs next season???

yes they can.

Screw this season, Spurs office needs to do the following over the summer:
- get Scola
- sign Nocioni
- sign a backup PG.
- Send Oberto and Beno back to Europe, send Finley to Acapulco

[SequSpur]

NBA teams can only pay $500K toward the buyout of a player's contract. So the Spurs couldn't pay Scola's actual team the remainder of his contract.


can you just post that at the top so these knuckleheads will quit challenging this issue...?????

Shit.

[MoSpur]

$3,5 M p/year is a decent contract I guess for Scola,considering that He would have to give up some money for the buy out.

I seriously doubt that the Spurs are willing to give him $3.5 million a season.

[JPB]

so,is the reminding of his contract gonna be low enough to buy it out this off season,or they are gonna have to wait another year?

I don't exactly know what his buyout would be but I know Vitoria has kind of locked him when they sign him with a enormous "exit" clause.

It could depend on how Vitoria is doing this year. If they win the euroleague, maybe they will let "gladier" Scola go and realize his dream and ask a bit less money.

[ArgSpursFan]

yes they can.

Screw this season, Spurs office needs to do the following - sign a backup PG.
- Send Oberto and Beno back to Europe, send Finley to Acapulco

hahahahahahah
:lmao

[cheguevara]

can you just post that at the top so these knuckleheads will quit challenging this issue...?????

Shit.

yeah, threads like get SJAX for Manu are way more intelligent :lol

[MoSpur]

If the Spurs were to sign Scola and somehow get Nocioni to come that would be too weird. The Spurs would be San Antonio Spurs/Argentina International Team.

[JPB]

can you just post that at the top so these knuckleheads will quit challenging this issue...?????

Shit.

Scola can pay a part, of the totality of the buyout.

[ArgSpursFan]

can you just post that at the top so these knuckleheads will quit challenging this issue...?????

Shit.
looks like the Jackon´s thread still hurts ,huh????

[ArgSpursFan]

correction

I agree.
I was not thinking at the beginning that he wouldn't fit in SA cos of Duncan presence.


I think you said it right the first time JPB.
I don´t know,I may be wrong.

[JPB]

If the Spurs were to sign Scola and somehow get Nocioni to come that would be too weird. The Spurs would be San Antonio Spurs/Argentina International Team.

Then, they should sign Argentina's coach as an assistant :)

[MoSpur]

MoSpur, MarCowMar, ArgSpursFan, whottt, JPB, MmP, SilverPlayer, Big Shot Rob, ChumpDumper, SequSpur, zocool16, steppy, baseline bum, DFW Spurs

are in this thread. Wow.

[ArgSpursFan]

Then, they should sign Argentina's coach as an assistant :)
Actually ,Pop met the old Argentinian coach(who coached in indianapolis 2002 and got the gold medal in Athens)but I think they just talked about manu´s game and Scola´s game as well.

[JPB]

I think you said it right the first time JPB.
I don´t know,I may be wrong.

:dizzy

No, you're right.

[MoSpur]

I think he would have fit in okay with the Spurs this season, but that's just my opinion. The Spurs bigs have been a disappointment thus far. Especially Oberto. He has been with the Spurs for more than one year. I love his hustle, but lately it hasn't been there. He is too inconsistent. Elson's athletic ability is awesome, but he needs to produce off of it and it simply hasn't happened.

[ArgSpursFan]

:dizzy

No, you're right.

hahahaha :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

yes they can.

Screw this season, Spurs office needs to do the following over the summer:
- get Scola
- sign Nocioni
- sign a backup PGWith what money?

[JPB]

Actually ,Pop met the old Argentinian coach(who coached in indianapolis 2002 and got the gold medal in Athens)but I think they just talk about manu´s game and Scola´s game as well.

Pop CIA.

He should have asked him : "how do you say in spanish" : "don't foul" :devil

[cheguevara]

With what money?

trade/dump everyone except TD,Manu,Parker,Bowen,Elson? guess thats not enough

[Mr. Body]

Spurs will have the MLE this year. That's it.

[ChumpDumper]

trade/dump everyone except TD,Manu,Parker,Bowen,Elson? guess thats not enoughDump them where?

[ArgSpursFan]

Pop CIA.

He should have asked him : "how do you say in spanish" : "don't foul" :devil

Hehehe,I know,That´s just manu man,love him or hate him.Thats the way he is.
he will try and try and try,he may fuck up sometimes,but at the end of the day, bottonline is ,that the guy is a team player and a winner

[ChumpDumper]

BTW, dumping everyone is pretty much what they are doing for 2008.

[cheguevara]

Dump them where?

riverwalk?

[MoSpur]

I think Beno will be traded. Hopefully before the dealine. If not, he'll be gone during the Summer. What is the deal with Finley's contract? Does he have an option after this season or do the Spurs have the option? Is there any option? LOL

[ChumpDumper]

riverwalk?If you can show me that provision in the CBA, you'll get a cookie.

[ArgSpursFan]

BTW, dumping everyone is pretty much what they are doing for 2008.

Spurs can´t wait that long.Something needs to be done seriusly this offseason

[cheguevara]

BTW, dumping everyone is pretty much what they are doing for 2008.

right. 100% sure we will have a new backup PG. likely to get Scola. The only unlikely part is Nocioni, but it would be great, especially if Scola and Manu can talk to him.

[JPB]

I think he would have fit in okay with the Spurs this season, but that's just my opinion. The Spurs bigs have been a disappointment thus far. Especially Oberto. He has been with the Spurs for more than one year. I love his hustle, but lately it hasn't been there. He is too inconsistent. Elson's athletic ability is awesome, but he needs to produce off of it and it simply hasn't happened.

sincerely, with the recent success of guys like Garbojosa or Okur, I also think that Luis would have bring something really valuable to this team. He hustles just as much as Oberto and rebounds better and would be really usefull to catch Tony's or Manu pass on the drive to hit the midrange or make the easy layup under the basket. The guy has really good hands and a nice touch.

[AFBlue]

yes they can.

Screw this season, Spurs office needs to do the following over the summer:
- get Scola
- sign Nocioni
- sign a backup PG.
- Send Oberto and Beno back to Europe, send Finley to Acapulco

Spurs have the MLE...likely to be no more than $5.5M and Nocioni would be AT LEAST that much if not more all by himself.

The likelihood of the Spurs signing Scola depends more on their other needs than Scola's worth to this team. If the Spurs need more than $2M to shore up the backup PG situation (Knight, Atkins, etc.) it is likely they'll try to trade Scola.

Bottom Line: Too many needs, too little money! If the Spurs want to improve this off-season they need to draft contributors and/or make trades with current assets (Barry, Scola rights, Butler, Mahinmi rights)

[ArgSpursFan]

right. 100% sure we will have a new backup PG. likely to get Scola. The only unlikely part is Nocioni, but it would be great, especially if Scola and Manu can talk to him.

Hey,half of the population speaks spanish overthere in S.A
Am I wrong?

[JPB]

Hehehe,I know,That´s just manu man,love him or hate him.Thats the way he is.
he will try and try and try,he may fuck up sometimes,but at the end of the day, bottonline is ,that the guy is a team player and a winner

Hey,
don't misread me, I love Manu just as much as you do.
How can you possibly dont love him, anyway ?

[ploto]

Reportedly, Scola was interested in 3 years and $9 to $10 M- which is equivalent to the contracts signed by Anthony Parker and Jorge Garbajosa- but the Spurs would not give him that.

I continue to believe that Scola will never be a Spur. Too much water under the bridge.All summer the Spurs were claiming that Tim would play more center- but then they went after Elson and Butler- when they had the best PF outside the NBA available.

[ChumpDumper]

There should be an over/under vBookie on the number of minutes it will take Ian to foul out.

[ChumpDumper]

Reportedly, Scola was interested in 3 years and $9 to $10 M- which is equivalent to the contracts signed by Anthony Parker and Jorge Garbajosa- but the Spurs would not give him that.Link?

[ArgSpursFan]

Link?

it is true,it´s been all over the news this offseason

[dbestpro]

can you just post that at the top so these knuckleheads will quit challenging this issue...?????

Shit.
The issue is not about the buy out. Every team knows they get around the buy out by offering a bigger contract to compensate for the buy out. The Spurs were not willing to do this and instead have probalby5-7 slugs that will not even be on the team next year.

[ChumpDumper]

it is true,it´s been all over the news this offseasonThen it'll be easy to find a link. I honestly didn't see it.

[objective]

Link?

I can't believe this still isn't common knoweledge, the Spurs easily could have afforded him but don't want him no matter what.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA070706.1D.BKNspurs.scola.1300a8f.html


Scola is seeking a three-year contract worth between $9 million and $10 million, about a third of which would go to paying the $3.5 million buyout he has with Tau.

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks. I don't know why you guys got your panties in a wad.

[JPB]

There should be an over/under vBookie on the number of minutes it will take Ian to foul out.

specially against Scola who's got superstar treatment from the refs.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't believe this still isn't common knoweledge, the Spurs easily could have afforded him but don't want him no matter what.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA070706.1D.BKNspurs.scola.1300a8f.html

I'm sure once the 2008 plan became a possibility, Scola was judged as not being worth scuttling it.

[timvp]

I'm undecided on Scola because the power forward position in Europe can't be compared to the power forward position in the NBA. Malik Rose could go to Europe right now and average 30 and 15.

That said, the biggest plus for Scola in my book is that he's always played well against the US NT. In the game this summer, he was the best player on the court in the first quarter.

Might not mean much but it's a good sign that he comes up big in big games.

[timvp]

P.S.

I think that's the first time in recorded SpursTalk history that ChumpDumper asked for a link and was given one. :rollin

[dbestpro]

Dump them where?

07-08
Eric Williams 4.3 mil off the books
Matt Bonner 2 mil off the books
Jaques Vaughn 1 mil off the books

highly sought after expiring contracts
Brent Barry 5.5 mil
Bruce Bowen 4.1 mil
Robert Horry 3.6 mil
Francisco Elson 3 mil
Michale Finley 3.1 mil
Fabrico Oberto 2.5 mil

Tradeable youth
Beno Udrih 1.7 mil
Jackie Butler 2.3 mil

total tradable assets = 33.1 mil

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

I will always be thankful.

[ploto]

Also in that article:


Moving Duncan to center and signing Scola isn't being considered.

Will it be considered this summer?

[JPB]

I'm undecided on Scola because the power forward position in Europe can't be compared to the power forward position in the NBA. Malik Rose could go to Europe right now and average 30 and 15.

That said, the biggest plus for Scola in my book is that he's always played well against the US NT. In the game this summer, he was the best player on the court in the first quarter.

Might not mean much but it's a good sign that he comes up big in big games.

I was thinking the same way, since recently, but again with the success of some euro bigs in NBA and the small ball thing, I finally think Scola could be just fine.
And, dont' know if you're joking with Malik but no way Malik would dominate in Europe. PF all have very goods hands here and have, at worse, a decent shoot, or better can shoot three (even if the 3 range is a bit closer)

[ChumpDumper]

07-08
Eric Williams 4.3 mil off the books
Matt Bonner 2 mil off the books
Jaques Vaughn 1 mil off the books

highly sought after expiring contracts
Brent Barry 5.5 mil
Bruce Bowen 4.1 mil
Robert Horry 3.6 mil
Francisco Elson 3 mil
Michale Finley 3.1 mil
Fabrico Oberto 2.5 mil

Tradeable youth
Beno Udrih 1.7 mil
Jackie Butler 2.3 mil

total tradable assets = 33.1 mil
Highly sought after?

By whom?

By teams that want them in exchange for longer contracts.

[objective]

Malik Rose could go to Europe right now and average 30 and 15.


lol, talk about an exaggeration.

[Cherry]

yes they can.

Screw this season, Spurs office needs to do the following over the summer:
- get Scola
- sign Nocioni*
- sign a backup PG.
- Send Oberto and Beno back to Europe, send Finley to Acapulco










* I believe in miracles :angel

[MoSpur]

Could the Spurs do a sign and trade with the Bulls this Summer for Nocioni?

[ArgSpursFan]

I'm undecided on Scola because the power forward position in Europe can't be compared to the power forward position in the NBA. Malik Rose could go to Europe right now and average 30 and 15.

That said, the biggest plus for Scola in my book is that he's always played well against the US NT. In the game this summer, he was the best player on the court in the first quarter.

Might not mean much but it's a good sign that he comes up big in big games.
basketball has change singnificaly in the last 10 years all over the world.
to give you a perfert example about it,Argentina beated USA team in Athens,And Scola had to guard guys like Tim Duncan,and still got his 20 pts and 10 boards.
The gap between NBA and rest of the world has gotten shorter.

[objective]

Regardless of whether Scola could have the same success in the NBA as he's had in Europe, it's not like he'd be any worse than the current Spur bigs excluding Duncan.

[JPB]

Regardless of whether Scola could have the same success in the NBA as he's had in Europe, it's not like he'd be any worse than the current Spur bigs excluding Duncan.

Now, that's objective.

[objective]

Now, that's objective.

precisely.

What's Scola going to do, block less shots than Oberto? Rotate worse than Elson? Half-ass more than Horry? Brick more than Finley (big for smallball purposes)? Get fewer defensive rebounds than Oberto or Elson? Be slower than Jackie Butler?

[ChumpDumper]

Here's a question.

Which stat line is better?

16.3 points and 6.9 rebounds in 29 minutes

18 points and 6.6 rebounds in 30 minutes.

How much better and why?

[Kori Ellis]

Here's a question.

Which stat line is better?

16.3 points and 6.9 rebounds in 29 minutes

18 points and 6.6 rebounds in 30 minutes.

How much better and why?

Give me field goal percentages and then I'll decide :lol

[ArgSpursFan]

Here's a question.

Which stat line is better?

16.3 points and 6.9 rebounds in 29 minutes

18 points and 6.6 rebounds in 30 minutes.

How much better and why?

they´re about the same.i´d take the second one,but I´d look at the fg % , apg% and spg also ,to get to see the whole picture

[ChumpDumper]

The first is 61% -- all two pointers.

The second is 53% two ponters and 28% three pointers.

[ArgSpursFan]

The first is 61% -- all two pointers.

The second is 53% two ponters and 28% three pointers.
I take the second one.but give me the apg and spg averages

[TDMVPDPOY]

is his buyout still above 10mill?

[Bruno]

Here's a question.

Which stat line is better?

16.3 points and 6.9 rebounds in 29 minutes

18 points and 6.6 rebounds in 30 minutes.

How much better and why?

Marcus stat line is better.

[ChumpDumper]

Here is the player with the first stat line:

http://www.basquetcapital.org.ar/notasynoticias/_img/luis-scola.jpg

This is the player with the second stat line in the same league:

http://www.feb.es/images/pictures/FotoNoticia_9299_Big.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Damn you Bruno! :lol

[Dartherus]

I seriously doubt that the Spurs are willing to give him $3.5 million a season.
If guys like Elson (who was waaaaay below Scola in Europe), Garbajosa and Oberto (both less athletic and slower than Scola, with Scola having a CLEAR edge on the offensive end) or even Nocioni (who, despite being a year older than Scola, was behind Scola in performance, when they were teammates in Tau Ceramica)...have had different level of success....

What would make you think that a guy with so much talent and proven leadership (captain and MVP of Tau Ceramica, one of the best teams of Euroleague year after year, practically co-MVP of the 2004 olympics side by side with manu, second best argentinian player despite being injured in the last world cup, behind Manu and ahead Nocioni) wouldn't be a SURE BET for ANY NBA franchise?

For succesful FIBA players, sometimes lack of athleticism is a handicap, but, as I said, Scola, 6'9" 240 lbs, is faster and more athletic than Oberto and Garbajosa, for instance, just more talented and fundamentally skilled.

His buyout was the HUGE barrier, it was 14.5 million euro until the end of this season, once this 06/07 season in over, his contract (a 10-year contract signed when he was 17) says that the buyout will be only 800 K euros, and then it would be quite possible for him to come into NBA.

[ArgSpursFan]

If guys like Elson (who was waaaaay below Scola in Europe), Garbajosa and Oberto (both less athletic and slower than Scola, with Scola having a CLEAR edge on the offensive end) or even Nocioni (who, despite being a year older than Scola, was behind Scola in performance, when they were teammates in Tau Ceramica)...have had different level of success....

What would make you think that a guy with so much talent and proven leadership (captain and MVP of Tau Ceramica, one of the best teams of Euroleague year after year, practically co-MVP of the 2004 olympics side by side with manu, second best argentinian player despite being injured in the last world cup, behind Manu and ahead Nocioni) wouldn't be a SURE BET for ANY NBA franchise?

For succesful FIBA players, sometimes lack of athleticism is a handicap, but, as I said, Scola, 6'9" 240 lbs, is faster and more athletic than Oberto and Garbajosa, for instance, just more talented and fundamentally skilled.

His buyout was the HUGE barrier, it was 14.5 million euro until the end of this season, once this 06/07 season in over, his contract (a 10-year contract signed when he was 17) says that the buyout will be only 800 K euros, and then it would be quite possible for him to come into NBA.
800 k euros is like 1600 k Dollars,Scola is gonna have to give up like 1100k dollars to come to the NBA ,in order pay 500k dollars on the spurs part.

[Bruno]

Having great stats in another league than nba (like in europe, Dleague or NCAA) doens't mean that you will be a good player in nba.

Saying that a player like Scola will be a good nba player because he has great stats and a lot of success in europe isn't a solid argument. People too should ask themselves how his game will translate in nba and with Spurs.

BTW, I can put too euro stats from another PF (it wasn't in Spain but in another great european league with a crappy team) : 19.2 pts (54.3 FG%), 9.3 rbds, 2.3 stls in 36.8min.

[ArgSpursFan]

Having great stats in another league than nba (like in europe, Dleague or NCAA) doens't mean that you will be a good player in nba.

Saying that a player like Scola will be a good nba player because he has great stats and a lot of success in europe isn't a solid argument. People too should ask themselves how his game will translate in nba and with Spurs.

BTW, I can put too euro stats from another PF (it wasn't in Spain but in another great european league with a crappy team) : 19.2 pts (54.3 FG%), 9.3 rbds, 2.3 stls in 36.8min.
sure thing,there´s a bunch of guys with good stats in europe playing for good leagues,but If you wanna have a good idea of how their performance is gonna be playing against NBA players just go to the world championships and Olympics Stats.
There you´ll see that Scola guarded players like Duncan,Dirk,Raho,Milicic, etc,and he won most of the times, and got about 16 to 20 pts and 9 to 12 rebounds.
Not bud for a Non american Euroleague player,huh?

[AFBlue]

Having great stats in another league than nba (like in europe, Dleague or NCAA) doens't mean that you will be a good player in nba.

Saying that a player like Scola will be a good nba player because he has great stats and a lot of success in europe isn't a solid argument. People too should ask themselves how his game will translate in nba and with Spurs.

BTW, I can put too euro stats from another PF (it wasn't in Spain but in another great european league with a crappy team) : 19.2 pts (54.3 FG%), 9.3 rbds, 2.3 stls in 36.8min.

Good point. But from what I read, Scola is a smart low-post player (doesn't just bully his way to the basket) and he is capable of hitting the 15-18ft shot. Both qualities translate well to the NBA. Is that an accurate statement of his play, or am I totally off-base? Is he a "banger" that won't be able to bang in the NBA due to his lack of size?

[ChumpDumper]

So Duncan would suck in the NBA because he did badly in the Olympics.

[ArgSpursFan]

So Duncan would suck in the NBA because he did badly in the Olympics.
Duncan did good,so did Scola
That´s all

[AFBlue]

To piggyback on my earlier statement...

I also read that he's a very aggressive, active player. Does he draw alot of fouls and have a decent FT %?

[ChumpDumper]

Duncan did good,so did Scola
That´s allYou call what Duncan did good?

[ArgSpursFan]

Good point. But from what I read, Scola is a smart low-post player (doesn't just bully his way to the basket) and he is capable of hitting the 15-18ft shot. Both qualities translate well to the NBA. Is that an accurate statement of his play, or am I totally off-base? Is he a "banger" that won't be able to bang in the NBA due to his lack of size?

He aint too tall,that´s true.So isn´t Malik Rose
And i still remember a guy called Charles barkley.

[ArgSpursFan]

You call what Duncan did good?

In the Olympics?yes
In the NBA,he made history

[ChumpDumper]

I just don't have enough proof that Scola is going to be all that in the NBA. I've said before that I think at best he would be Corliss Williamson in his prime with some Argentinian intangible mojo -- that might be good for the Spurs. What's the going rate for that?

[ArgSpursFan]

To piggyback on my earlier statement...

I also read that he's a very aggressive, active player. Does he draw alot of fouls and have a decent FT %?

61%

[ChumpDumper]

In the Olympics?yes
In the NBA,he made historySo Scola will be better than Duncan in the NBA.

[Bruno]

Good point. But from what I read, Scola is a smart low-post player (doesn't just bully his way to the basket) and he is capable of hitting the 15-18ft shot. Both qualities translate well to the NBA. Is that an accurate statement of his play, or am I totally off-base? Is he a "banger" that won't be able to bang in the NBA due to his lack of size?

I son't think that Scola will be able to score in the post against nba players who are bigger and/or more athletic than european players. Being smart and versatile is what can save him in nba.

My POV about Scola and the nba is that I don't know if he can succeed. On the on hand he will have to change a lot of things to succeed in nba but on the other hand he is smart, versatile and plays with a lot of heart so the translation can work.

[ArgSpursFan]

So Scola will be better than Duncan in the NBA.

Not even close.But he always did ok guarding Duncan or DIRK, and many other NBA players.
And right now the spurs need another option to get to hold DIRK not to play out of his mind all the time

[AFBlue]

I son't think that Scola will be able to score in the post against nba players who are bigger and/or more athletic than european players. Being smart and versatile is what can save him in nba.

My POV about Scola and the nba is that I don't know if he can succeed. On the on hand he will have to change a lot of things to succeed in nba but on the other hand he is smart, versatile and plays with a lot of heart so the translation can work.


He seems to have that heart/determination from what I've seen. That has to be encouraging.

[Bruno]

BTW, I can put too euro stats from another PF (it wasn't in Spain but in another great european league with a crappy team) : 19.2 pts (54.3 FG%), 9.3 rbds, 2.3 stls in 36.8min.

And this PF is Matt Bonner. :smokin

[ChumpDumper]

:lol And that was with no hot water in his apartment and salmonella poisoning.

[WalterBenitez]

in Spurs Scola would be doing way better than Elson, Oberto, Finley, Horry. He's an instant decent bench player at worst.
POP will have him as towel boy ...

[Bruno]

:lol And that was with no hot water in his apartment and salmonella poisoning.

And no electricity and no salary. :spin

[ArgSpursFan]

And this PF is Matt Bonner. :smokin

I can´t belive you Dare to compare Scola with Bonner.
i thought you were smarter.
I like Bonner don´t get me wrong,but to campare Scola with Bonner is like compare a Nice Little Buick Skylark with a Maceratti.

[Bruno]

I can´t belive you Dare to compare Scola with Bonner.
i thought you were smarter.


RIF.
I've never compared Scola with Bonner.

[Mark in Austin]

I'm undecided on Scola because the power forward position in Europe can't be compared to the power forward position in the NBA. Malik Rose could go to Europe right now and average 30 and 15.

That said, the biggest plus for Scola in my book is that he's always played well against the US NT. In the game this summer, he was the best player on the court in the first quarter.

Might not mean much but it's a good sign that he comes up big in big games.


I've been wondering if the continued evolution of the NBA rules to favor offense would improve Scola's chances for success here or not. I honestly haven't seen enough of him to get a feel for his game.

I agree with timvp on the biggest plus - dude plays with heart and brings it against the US when they play. You can't teach that.


The comment about how could Scola be worse than Elson, Oberto, Horry, etc. got me curious about if the team's current lack of depth has reflected negatively on golden boy Presti. I'm of the opinion that it's still too early to tell if Elson/Butler worked out or not, but surely he's sweating a little right now.

[ChumpDumper]

I can´t belive you Dare to compare Scola with Bonner.
i thought you were smarter.
Yeah, how dare you.

Scola doesn't have that kind of range.

[ArgSpursFan]

Yeah, how dare you.

Scola doesn't have that kind of range.

It´s just pointless in this thread.
They actually play together moving bonner to the 3 spot.
But It has nothing to do what Bonner is capable to do or not with what we are talking about.
Sometimes you guys need to relize that not all the good things(or people)are or live in America.

[ChumpDumper]

Moving Bonner to the 3 spot would be pointless.
Sometimes you guys need to relize that not all the good things(or people)are or live in America.That's the funniest thing I've read today. Well, second funniest after the Bonner at the three spot thing.

[Bruno]

BTW, about the fact that having great stats in europe doesn't translate for sure in being good nba stats : a player in Spain averages 16.4 pts (.55 FG%), 10.5rbds, 1.8 blocks in 33 mpg....



























... His name is Curtis Borchardt :lol

[T Park]

That said, the biggest plus for Scola in my book is that he's always played well against the US NT. In the game this summer, he was the best player on the court in the first quarter.



said the same thing about Oberto didn't we?

[Dartherus]

why some guys keep ignoring, that, unlike some euro stars who failed in the NBA, Scola isn't soft, neither slow, weak or with a severe lack of athleticism?

Scola has a high basketball IQ, solid fundamentals, pretty mid-range jumper, and state-of-the-art low post moves, with the difference that he is QUITE FASTER AND MORE ATHLETIC than other euro players that somehow got minutes in the NBA, like Oberto o Garbajosa.

If they got minutes in NBA, why are you so sure that Scola would do worse than them, given that he's proven over an over better than them, and in NBA characteristics (strenght, speed, athleticism) is better than those players?

[T Park]

My only problem with him, is he doesn't rebound for shit.

[ChumpDumper]

His speed, strength and athleticism would be pretty average in the NBA.

[ducks]

$3,5 M p/year is a decent contract I guess for Scola,considering that He would have to give up some money for the buy out.
way more other rookies even rookies that get selected first in the draft get paid less then that

[Maddog]

I've been wondering if the continued evolution of the NBA rules to favor offense would improve Scola's chances for success here or not. I honestly haven't seen enough of him to get a feel for his game.

I agree with timvp on the biggest plus - dude plays with heart and brings it against the US when they play. You can't teach that.


The comment about how could Scola be worse than Elson, Oberto, Horry, etc. got me curious about if the team's current lack of depth has reflected negatively on golden boy Presti. I'm of the opinion that it's still too early to tell if Elson/Butler worked out or not, but surely he's sweating a little right now.

not sure how much Elson and Butler where a result of Presti. The Spurs offered contracts (alledgedly) to several before arriving at Elson, Butler.
I think they roled the dice- saying Nazr and Rasho where so-so and would cost a lot to keep. The hope was the cap flexibility (expiring short contracts )would allow potential moves if needed but so far zip.
I think they have also miscalculated how much Horry had in the tank.
I haven't completely written off Elson- Butler I'm close too.
I'd like to see Elson get extended minutes despite his defecits just to see if his D improves with familiarity. Oberto is what he is- a hard working guy with limited physical attributes.

[objective]

I am less concerned about stats than what I can see a player do. Stats aren't meaningess in the NBA where they're more relatable to the NBA game (like Elson having 33 of 55 starts last season without a block), but even then they don't tell the whole story.

Oberto had okay stats in Europe but in the games I saw before he was a Spur I noticed he might end up with the worst vertical in the league and that he wouldn't be a shotblocking threat, in spite of his getting a gift block on Duncan in 04 because Duncan was falling and shooting so Oberto didn't have to leave the ground. I saw that he was slow.

It wasn't rocket science to apply these to the NBA game, and seeing that he wouldn't be a shotblocker, would have trouble finishing strong, and would have at best average speed, at worst have poor speed.

That's why I didn't see the need for him. Getting a back-up center with those qualities didn't make sense to me, all the more glaring when he is forced to be the starter.

Scola I view also through this prism.

I don't expect Scola to be a 16-20 point average scorer. I would expect him to be a hustler who scores around the block like Malik Rose did (which occasionally was quite effectively, other times not) and to be able to stick a modest jumper. To be someone the Spurs can go to in the post to at least threaten with when Duncan is out of the game to add some variety to their offense without TD, like they did with a prime Rose.

To be a hustler who can be effective in a delayed fast break and even a fast break. To be a guy who can actually finish strong with a dunk. Maybe not in Dwight Howard's face, but a dunk in a game. To bring a lot of emotion off the bench. To bring passion, energy.

To give up some rebounds, but not be a total disaster rebounding either. To have trouble in one-on-one post defense situations but to play well with his hands and staying active. To make selfish turnovers.

He has blocked the shots of Jermaine O'Neal and Elton Brand. He's not a pure shotblocker by any means, but he'll do more to get after it than Oberto.

So if all Scola would ever be is a prime Corliss Williamson or a prime Malik Rose (whose best year was 10 points a game), then to me that's easily worth 3-3.5 million a year. The Spurs could use a prime Williamson or Rose right now.

Too bad the Spurs will never sign him.

[SequSpur]

Scola ain't shit. If he wanted to play here, he would've take the prove yourself contract and bring his ass over here.

[Mr. Body]

They didn't offer him a 'prove yourself' contract.

[SequSpur]

They didn't offer him a 'prove yourself' contract.

yes they did. he's the one that set his market value. uh hello.

[Mr. Body]

It was never offered. The Spurs didn't want him here. They were looking to trade his rights instead.

[ducks]

they were shopping his rights after they found out what he wanted

[Mr. Body]

I see. Segu was doing the infantile "he should have played for the vet minimum" song and dance. Tiresome.

[ducks]

all rookies do...
then they get their big payday.............

tiresome you do notget that

[objective]

I hope the reason they didn't sign Scola wasn't that 08 myth of a plan.

The 08 plan is presuming the Spurs don't sign anyone to a deal longer than 1 year with the MLE in summer 07, which likely means another wasted year of championship opportunity.

[Mr. Body]

Nope. I've argued this before, but that's just lame shit. Scola deserves something close to market value. Otherwise he'll be content to play in Europe forever, failing to improve the Spurs in any way. Nice going.

[ducks]

right now it might have been better to pay scola then elson or butler
but who knows what scola can do
other posters posted players that played good in euro and not so good in nba for that kind of money

[ducks]

when spurs shopped him they must not have found a team and a owner even MARK CUBAN to pay his demands...................................

[ducks]

Nope. I've argued this before, but that's just lame shit. Scola deserves something close to market value. Otherwise he'll be content to play in Europe forever, failing to improve the Spurs in any way. Nice going.

his loss and the spurs loss of a second round pick

could be spurs big loss if they pay him 3.5 million and he sits own the bench as a scrub

[Mr. Body]

Not a second round pick; the best power forward in Europe.

[ducks]

Not a second round pick; the best power forward in Europe.

second round pick

[SequSpur]

Scola isn't worth the minimum.

[Kori Ellis]

Nope. I've argued this before, but that's just lame shit. Scola deserves something close to market value. Otherwise he'll be content to play in Europe forever, failing to improve the Spurs in any way. Nice going.

What's close to market value to you for him? 3years/$9M? Would offering him that last summer been enough for him to cover his buyout? Or was the buyout still $5M+ then?

[ducks]

would scola be willing to come off the bench and play the postion duncan does?

[objective]

right now it might have been better to pay scola then elson or butler
but who knows what scola can do
other posters posted players that played good in euro and not so good in nba for that kind of money

Both statements have merit. Jasikevicius for has been a disappointment, but not surprising to those who had doubts that his game would translate, with him not being a pure point guard, a streaky shooter, and whose age (30+) and athleticism would be problems with playing NBA defense. Plus the fact that he as a starter overseas and a back-up here. I don't think that would be as big an issue for Scola as he's come off the bench for the national team.

Scola is no guarantee of anything in the NBA, but it's hard for him to be worse than what the Spurs have right now.

[objective]

would scola be willing to come off the bench and play the postion duncan does?

I don't see why not, he's been come off the bench for the national team.

[ducks]

if scola thinks he is as good as he is sign a 2 year deal(insurance incase he sucks to cover his buyout) with the spurs and then opt out(if he is all that) and test the market and flea and hit his big pay day
or is he to much of a chicken.......................

[objective]

What's close to market value to you for him? 3years/$9M? Would offering him that last summer been enough for him to cover his buyout? Or was the buyout still $5M+ then?

I don't know about market value, but the Express News reported that 3/9 was enough for him to cover his buyout as it had dropped to 3.5 million and he was willing to pay it off.

Sounds like barely more than half of the league average is a modest figure for market value.

[Mr. Body]

What's close to market value to you for him? 3years/$9M? Would offering him that last summer been enough for him to cover his buyout? Or was the buyout still $5M+ then?

I think Garbajosa set the market value last summer and Scola can expect around the same. He'd definitely be worth 3yrs/$9M. I have no idea what his buyout is. We need a mole in the Spanish front office.

[SequSpur]

yeah, someone tell me the market value for a second round pick that hasn't done shit in the NBA?

[objective]

I think Garbajosa set the market value last summer and Scola can expect around the same. He'd definitely be worth 3yrs/$9M. I have no idea what his buyout is. We need a mole in the Spanish front office.

from the Express News this offseason:



Scola is seeking a three-year contract worth between $9 million and $10 million, about a third of which would go to paying the $3.5 million buyout he has with Tau.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know about market value, but the Express News reported that 3/9 was enough for him to cover his buyout as it had dropped to 3.5 million and he was willing to pay it off.

Sounds like barely more than half of the league average is a modest figure for market value.

Yeah I'm not sure about that $3.5M figure, the summer before it was reported as everything from $1.5M to $14.5M. I'm not sure anyone really ever knows. I never hear Scola's camp say how much it is each year.

[ChumpDumper]

You think it would be easy to pin down a number each summer, but there's always 5-10 different reports.

I blame Holt for each and every one of them.

[SequSpur]

Dude is not worth a 3 year deal. I can't blame the Spurs for not signing him. Dude is out of control just like his cousin Ginobilly.

[objective]

Yeah I'm not sure about that $3.5M figure, the summer before it was reported as everything from $1.5M to $14.5M. I'm not sure anyone really ever knows. I never hear Scola's camp say how much it is each year.

I think it had dropped from the year before, which was reported in the Express as 12+. Scola had argued the summer before IIRC in Argentine papers that the reported number wasn't hard and true and it was all part of negotiating with Tau which the Spurs backed out of because they didn't want to miss out on signing Oberto with a portion of the MLE before Memphis did and they couldn't wait on Scola because there was no guarantee the buyout would come down.

Whether the 3.5 figure is accurate or it's really 1.5 or 5.0, is less important the Express reporting on what he would accept, the 3/9-10. If Scola was looking for that kind of deal than the buyout is no issue since he would be the one paying most of it off anyway

[Mr. Body]

What seems clear is that the Spurs could have had Scola last summer if they wanted him. But they didn't.

Sure, his lack of rebounding would hurt, but our defense wouldn't be any worse and we'd have a fourth valuable scorer, plus some youth and energy off the bench.

Mark another misfire by our once brilliant front office.

[SequSpur]

Memo to Argentina Fans.

Scola was a second round pick. Second round picks get minimum wage and all the peanuts you can eat during your first year. End of conversation.

[ChumpDumper]

Would he really score that much ?

[Mr. Body]

Would he really score that much ?

One thing for sure, he could get his own shot. Finley, Bowen, Horry, usually Barry, usually Udrih, and Oberto... none of them can get their own shots.

[ChumpDumper]

What numbers do you think Scola would be putting up right now as a Spur?

[Mr. Body]

Garbs gets 8 and 5. I think he could do that.

[SequSpur]

Scola would be getting used by 80% of the NBA just like Elson and Oberto are.

[ChumpDumper]

Garbs gets 8 and 5. I think he could do that.Pretty pricey for 8 and 5. He only gets 5.6 boards in Euroleague.

[Mr. Body]

Pretty pricey for 8 and 5. He only gets 5.6 boards in Euroleague.

Same production we get from our centers and we don't mind their cost. More touches, more points from Scola, and the next year he'd do better. The cost isn't that bad, either. $3M? Not bad. No one is doubting Garbajosa.

I think Scola could get 4-5 boards.

[ChumpDumper]

Same production we get from our centers and we don't mind their cost.You don't mind?

[Mr. Body]

Not the cost. They're cheap.

[ChumpDumper]

But they suck.

[Mr. Body]

Eh. They're not great. The point, anyway, is that $3 million for a guy with Scola's projected value in this league is not bad at all. And as far as rebounds go, if Oberto culls 5 per game, I'd have to think Scola gets the same.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd rather not bother with more suck.

[mountainballer]

again I wonder about all those claims about how a EURO player will do in the NBA.
there should have been enough combined careers (NBA and Euro) that it is fair to state, that you never know.
some were stars in Europe (like for example Manu and Nocioni) and became also stars in the NBA.
some were stars there and didn't succeed in the NBA (Maciauskas, Jasikevicious)
some were stars, but not in the Euroleague MVP or 1st team category (like Manu, Scola and Saras were) and became quite decent NBA players (Garbajosa, Calderon)

so what does this tell regarding Scola?
well, it tells, that any scenario is possible. a team just has to take the risk.
and compared to the risk teams often take when signing ridiculous contracts, the risk of a 3years/9 million contract for a player like Scola doesn't look that bad, considering that a good chance to get a player in the decent starter/ quality back-up category is there.

btw. just for thoses of you, who were talking about stats in Spain.
Elson averaged 6 pts 5 rebounds in his 4 seasons in Spain and wasn't even close to becomming a star player there.

[JPB]

there ae some clues that can help figuring how a player would do in the NBA.
Character is one of them. Scola is a perennial, consistent top player in Europe who is in the same club for several years and who showed engagment and dvotion every year.
He is a smart, non egocentric guy (well not more than every other player.
Players you named were not proven top players on several years and were known as ballas. Guys from ex-yougoslavia are really gifted but also known sometimes for their hot temper and emotional instability. Scola has his head on his shoulders and sincerely when you have natural skills and good BBIQ, you can always find a way to express yourself whatever the place.

[JPB]

For those who would be interested :

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?clubcode=bas&pcode=AJG

[ArgSpursFan]

would scola be willing to come off the bench and play the postion duncan does?

Of course He will.he is a grown guy who knows he needs sometime to get used to NBA rules and Living in a deferent country with a deferent lenguaje.The same thing happened to manu when he first came to the spurs,He knew he had to get used to deferent type of game and living in the USA.
Scola is not a College player.He is already a Pro.

[ArgSpursFan]

yes they did. he's the one that set his market value. uh hello.
well, They signed him for a $14 M Euros contract in Spain

[AFBlue]

BTW, about the fact that having great stats in europe doesn't translate for sure in being good nba stats : a player in Spain averages 16.4 pts (.55 FG%), 10.5rbds, 1.8 blocks in 33 mpg....

... His name is Curtis Borchardt :lol

Half a percentage point! That's got to be the worst average ever.... :lol

[ArgSpursFan]

right now it might have been better to pay scola then elson or butler
but who knows what scola can do
other posters posted players that played good in euro and not so good in nba for that kind of money

and what about Manu,Parker,Dirk,Peya,Vlade,Kukoc ect etc etc??????
Come on man,let´s get serius

[ArgSpursFan]

ohhhhhh ,i almost forgot,The 2 times MVP of NBA was a FIBA player at one time too.!!!
End of this thread I guess

[ArgSpursFan]

Memo to Argentina Fans.

Scola was a second round pick. Second round picks get minimum wage and all the peanuts you can eat during your first year. End of conversation.

So was manu,And them what happened Ainstein???

[AFBlue]

from the Express News this offseason:
Scola is seeking a three-year contract worth between $9 million and $10 million, about a third of which would go to paying the $3.5 million buyout he has with Tau.


Did anyone catch the last part of that statement. I'm not sure about it's reliability, but that statement says a third of the $ would go towards buyout....meaning he'd only be making about $6M over three years, similar to Jackie Butler. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

Another aggressive scorer is what this team needs and even if he's not as dominant, he's probably well worth $2M+ a year.

[ArgSpursFan]

Did anyone catch the last part of that statement. I'm not sure about it's reliability, but that statement says a third of the $ would go towards buyout....meaning he'd only be making about $6M over three years, similar to Jackie Butler. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

Another aggressive scorer is what this team needs and even if he's not as dominant, he's probably well worth $2M+ a year.

that´s what I have been trying to tell averybody here,most of the money from his contract will go towars his Buy out,he´ll be playing for Free almost.
And He is gonna have a work permition,I thought they just did that to the iligal aliens. :ihit

[diego]

I am less concerned about stats than what I can see a player do. Stats aren't meaningess in the NBA where they're more relatable to the NBA game (like Elson having 33 of 55 starts last season without a block), but even then they don't tell the whole story.

Oberto had okay stats in Europe but in the games I saw before he was a Spur I noticed he might end up with the worst vertical in the league and that he wouldn't be a shotblocking threat, in spite of his getting a gift block on Duncan in 04 because Duncan was falling and shooting so Oberto didn't have to leave the ground. I saw that he was slow.

It wasn't rocket science to apply these to the NBA game, and seeing that he wouldn't be a shotblocker, would have trouble finishing strong, and would have at best average speed, at worst have poor speed.

That's why I didn't see the need for him. Getting a back-up center with those qualities didn't make sense to me, all the more glaring when he is forced to be the starter.

Scola I view also through this prism.

I don't expect Scola to be a 16-20 point average scorer. I would expect him to be a hustler who scores around the block like Malik Rose did (which occasionally was quite effectively, other times not) and to be able to stick a modest jumper. To be someone the Spurs can go to in the post to at least threaten with when Duncan is out of the game to add some variety to their offense without TD, like they did with a prime Rose.

To be a hustler who can be effective in a delayed fast break and even a fast break. To be a guy who can actually finish strong with a dunk. Maybe not in Dwight Howard's face, but a dunk in a game. To bring a lot of emotion off the bench. To bring passion, energy.

To give up some rebounds, but not be a total disaster rebounding either. To have trouble in one-on-one post defense situations but to play well with his hands and staying active. To make selfish turnovers.

He has blocked the shots of Jermaine O'Neal and Elton Brand. He's not a pure shotblocker by any means, but he'll do more to get after it than Oberto.

So if all Scola would ever be is a prime Corliss Williamson or a prime Malik Rose (whose best year was 10 points a game), then to me that's easily worth 3-3.5 million a year. The Spurs could use a prime Williamson or Rose right now.

Too bad the Spurs will never sign him.


co-sign.
plus he makes us younger, but still has big game experience.

[ploto]

Spurs gave $3M per year to Elson, but it was too much for Scola. :lol

[Mr. Body]

Passing on Scola was idiotic. It'll rank high in reasons why the Spurs failed to win a 4th championship.

[MoSpur]

I wouldn't have minded and still don't mind having the Spurs sign Scola. I don't think they'll give him 3.5 million per though. Maybe 2.5, but 3.5.

[Maddog]

Passing on Scola was idiotic. It'll rank high in reasons why the Spurs failed to win a 4th championship.

Maybe, maybe not,
I think they should have brought him over, but it's really hard to predict his impact. On one hand he has had great success in Europe. However, despite this- being a proven star- consistently listed as one of the best players in europe etc., the SPurs couldn't find anybody willing to trade a 1st round pick for him.
The impression I get is (and I'm definitely reading between the lines) is there is a lot of doubts as to his NBA potential among executives- be they right or wrong. THis based on articles and even an interview with RC Buford I heard last year.
I think the Elson signing was part desperation- here was somebody who had started in the NBA (last year with Denver), take a short term contract, and had some positives-speed etc.

[Mr. Body]

He'd have far more impact than any other player on the Spurs' bench right now. With a bench we might be able to compete with Dallas.

[RC's Boss]

No doubt,and that tells you how cheap Holt is,cause the spurs wouldn´t pay Scola´s actual team the reminding of his contract to bring him to the NBA.Stupids
They can't pay his buyout. i forgot the amount, but it's a limit. Teams wanting to buy him out of his contract would have to allow him to pay it buy giving him a HUGE contract, which I wouldn't do if I were Holt or Cuban, cheap or a big spender.

[RC's Boss]

The draw of second phase of the euroleague (the top 16) has been announced yesterday.

Scolas' team (Vitoria) and Mahinmi's one (Pau-Horthez) are in the same group (4 groups of four), which means they gonna meet twice.
I suppose it's gonna be more simple for the spurs FO to follow them...

It's a good thing for Mahinmi that Pau is qualified for the top 16, which was not sure at the beginning of the season, cos he's gonna experience the high level in euroleague and will certainly learn in the process.

We'll see if he can continue to progress and play well like he is playing since the beginning of the year and what he can do against Europe top bigs, like Scola, at his still young age.
Wow, I'm pissing my britches to watch that :sleep

[mountainballer]

They can't pay his buyout. i forgot the amount, but it's a limit. Teams wanting to buy him out of his contract would have to allow him to pay it buy giving him a HUGE contract, which I wouldn't do if I were Holt or Cuban, cheap or a big spender.

just read some of the posts and you learn what the limit is (500K), what the buy-out was last year (3.5 M) and how this "HUGE" contract would have looked (9-10 millions over 3 years). if you call a contract, that happens to be just half of the average NBA salary "HUGE", how do you call a MLE contract or even a max contract?
and btw. Cuban would have payed this kind of money. and noone would call him big spender for this.

[RC's Boss]

Spending your entire MLE on one unproven player is HUGE! Even though he has personal issues, Bonzi Wells got the full MLE (I think or close to it), but he's a proven NBA player. i didn't mean they'd throw a max contract to the guy. Giving him enough money to pay his own buyout would be too expensive. If I'm not mistaken, Scola wanted more than 3 mil per year.

[Mr. Body]

Spending your entire MLE on one unproven player is HUGE! Even though he has personal issues, Bonzi Wells got the full MLE (I think or close to it), but he's a proven NBA player. i didn't mean they'd throw a max contract to the guy. Giving him enough money to pay his own buyout would be too expensive. If I'm not mistaken, Scola wanted more than 3 mil per year.

I'm not sure you read a single post in this thread.

[objective]

Spending your entire MLE on one unproven player is HUGE! Even though he has personal issues, Bonzi Wells got the full MLE (I think or close to it), but he's a proven NBA player. i didn't mean they'd throw a max contract to the guy. Giving him enough money to pay his own buyout would be too expensive. If I'm not mistaken, Scola wanted more than 3 mil per year.

lol

1. Scola wasn't asking for the full MLE, just more than half of it.

2. Wells signed for 2.1 million this season, with a player option for next year, and that's less than half the MLE.

------------

It doesn't matter what Scola's buyout is, though I trust the Express News' numbers. His buyout could be $100 million, that doesn't matter because that's Scola's responsibility to pay off loans to whatever bank loans him the money. What matters is what Scola will accept. If he accepts a contract for 3/9-10, then who cares how much of it he has to pay towards a buyout, that's his responsibility. It doesn't matter if it puts him in debt for the rest of his life, what matters is the NBA team's end of the deal (not the Spurs because they refuse to sign him). What matters is getting playing under an NBA deal. What he does to pay off a loan is his business.

[mountainballer]

Spending your entire MLE on one unproven player is HUGE! Even though he has personal issues, Bonzi Wells got the full MLE (I think or close to it), but he's a proven NBA player. i didn't mean they'd throw a max contract to the guy. Giving him enough money to pay his own buyout would be too expensive. If I'm not mistaken, Scola wanted more than 3 mil per year.

jeeezz, just go back some posts, before claiming things that are wrong and stupid.
the MLE is about 5 million! the Scola contract would have started slightly above half of this number.
Wells didn't get the MLE, not even half of it, but this is another story. Wells was just ill-adviced, he refused to sign a 5 years contract with a average salary of 7 million per year with the Kings and then waited to long till no other team had cap space left.
and you are mistaken. Scola wanted just a contract that payed him 3 million per year.

[Josepatches]

some were stars in Europe (like for example Manu and Nocioni) and became also stars in the NBA.
some were stars there and didn't succeed in the NBA (Maciauskas, Jasikevicious)
some were stars, but not in the Euroleague MVP or 1st team category (like Manu, Scola and Saras were) and became quite decent NBA players (Garbajosa, Calderon)


Garbajosa was a star in Europe (he was a star in Treviso when he played in Italy)and he was the MVP of the spanish league's finals.Calderon played with Scola in Tau Victoria,a 1st team category in Europe and he was the point guard of the team that won the World Championship in Japan.

About Saras Jasikevicius and Macce..well,they are great shooters(Saras was a great leader to his teammates in Europe too) but they were coached by Byron Scott and Carlisle so if you are not pretty good at defend......Now Saras is in Golden State and he has to fight with Baron Davis,Monta Ellis,Robertson,Richardson...He is old and he never could be as important as he was in Europe.

The problem is when you choose a player from Europe that never was important in his team here (I'm from Spain),like Korolev,Milicic,Lampe....

Scola is a really good player,of course he is better than Oberto and Elson.I can't understand why Spurs choose Oberto when Scola was waiting to play with us 2 years ago.I didn't understand then and I can't understand now.IMO he is small to the NBA but he has amazing moves in the post and he scores easily against bigger players.He doesn't have a decent shoot from more than 5 metres (about 18 foot) but I think that he has talent to be better.He is not good at rebound too (Oberto and Elson are better).Basically he is a great inside scorer but his defend is not as great and maybe that's not good if you are coached by Pop.
If you think in Nocioni or Calderon they never were as important as Scola in Victoria when they played together.
So Scola will be a great player to the Spurs 2 or 3 seasons (he is not young).

About Mahinmi.Well he is not Pau Gasol.It's better that he stays in Europe until he will be a star here (if he can be a star) because he is not going to play enought time in the NBA right now and that's not good for the young players.They are a lot of examples.

This weekend in Spain the best 8 teams in the league will play the COPA tournament (like a Final four but with 8),the 2nd important tournament behind the league.A lot of NBA scouters will be here and they could see Scola in action.

[RC's Boss]

lol

1. Scola wasn't asking for the full MLE, just more than half of it.

2. Wells signed for 2.1 million this season, with a player option for next year, and that's less than half the MLE.

------------

It doesn't matter what Scola's buyout is, though I trust the Express News' numbers. His buyout could be $100 million, that doesn't matter because that's Scola's responsibility to pay off loans to whatever bank loans him the money. What matters is what Scola will accept. If he accepts a contract for 3/9-10, then who cares how much of it he has to pay towards a buyout, that's his responsibility. It doesn't matter if it puts him in debt for the rest of his life, what matters is the NBA team's end of the deal (not the Spurs because they refuse to sign him). What matters is getting playing under an NBA deal. What he does to pay off a loan is his business.
Hey I'm no fucking accountant or statistician. Whatever the amount was he was asking for, the fo didn't want to pay it. IMO I think it was the smart thing to do. His rebounding numbers would possibly go down further than they are now if he were playing in the NBA. He's not known for his D (like we need another big like that). And while I have no link, there was an article where I read he was looking for a contract that would allow him to pay for his buyout.

[mountainballer]

And while I have no link, there was an article where I read he was looking for a contract that would allow him to pay for his buyout.

LINK?

[timvp]

Garbajosa was a star in Europe (he was a star in Treviso when he played in Italy)and he was the MVP of the spanish league's finals.

Exactly. And that's why Scola is a risk. George Garbage was a star in Europe, but in the NBA he's a no defense playing big man chucker who doesn't hit shots or rebound.

Undersized power forwards like Marcus Fizer and Michael Wright can dominate in Europe because European post defense is softer and shorter than NBA post defense. Unless you really suck, any NBDL level bigman or above can put up stats in Europe. Especially small power forwards.

That's what Scola is. And that's why the Spurs aren't going to throw away money on a guy who could very well end up being Malik Allen with less size.

[Mr. Body]

You tell 'em. They'd much rather throw money away on Scola's less impressive teammate 'Fabulous' Fabricio Oberto.

[ArgSpursFan]

Spending your entire MLE on one unproven player is HUGE! .

Unproven????
the guy is not a 21 yrs old kid.He´s got an Olympic gold medal in his chest and a 2nd. Place in a world Championship.
Unproven would be a roockie who just got off college and was playing against ¨Other Kids¨on the NCAA.the year before.

[ArgSpursFan]

Exactly. And that's why Scola is a risk. George Garbage was a star in Europe, but in the NBA he's a no defense playing big man chucker who doesn't hit shots or rebound.

Undersized power forwards like Marcus Fizer and Michael Wright can dominate in Europe because European post defense is softer and shorter than NBA post defense. Unless you really suck, any NBDL level bigman or above can put up stats in Europe. Especially small power forwards.

That's what Scola is. And that's why the Spurs aren't going to throw away money on a guy who could very well end up being Malik Allen with less size.

So, you still think that Malik Rose could grab 15 to 20 boards in any league in the rest of the world???
you are so wrong my friend.Like I told you before The GAB between the NBA and rest of the world has gotten shortter tham 15 or 20 years ago.I guess you still think that USA team has the DREAM TEAM and the other countries could do shit against them.
You are so wrong.
malik Rose wouldn´t been able to play even as a STARTER right now on any team on euroleague.May be on his prime years but not right now.
so,wake up!!

[RC's Boss]

Unproven????
the guy is not a 21 yrs old kid.He´s got an Olympic gold medal in his chest and a 2nd. Place in a world Championship.
Unproven would be a roockie who just got off college and was playing against ¨Other Kids¨on the NCAA.the year before.
Unproven is anyone that has never played NBA ball. It's not to disrespect international leagues either (especially in the olympics). They seem to have a better team concept, but in the NBA guys are like Lee majors in the Bionic Man... quicker, stronger, faster. His offense would not be the same. Manu is a very good player in the NBA, but he could go overseas now and kill all comp.

[Kori Ellis]

How does the Round of 16 work? Is it round-robin? Double-elimination?

Thanks in advance.

[Mr. Body]

Last I looked Toronto was pretty happy with Garbs. He shoots too many threes, so his percentages isn't as high as it should be. Without 3s he's shooting .46. Not bad. He'll be even better next year. But whatever, timvp doesn't like Scola. Not a big deal.

[timvp]

So, you still think that Malik Rose could grab 15 to 20 boards in any league in the rest of the world???
you are so wrong my friend.Like I told you before The GAB between the NBA and rest of the world has gotten shortter tham 15 or 20 years ago.I guess you still think that USA team has the DREAM TEAM and the other countries could do shit against them.
You are so wrong.
malik Rose wouldn´t been able to play even as a STARTER right now on any team on euroleague.May be on his prime years but not right now.
so,wake up!!

Yeah, Malik Rose isn't as good as Michael Wright or Marcus Fizer. :rolleyes

Name me one smallish power forward who came to the US from Europe and played well.

[velik_m]

How does the Round of 16 work? Is it round-robin? Double-elimination?

Thanks in advance.

4 groups of 4, round-robin home and away, top 2 from each group advance.

then it's "playoffs", winners of groups play the second placed on 2 wins ( home, away, home).

then it's final four.

[Kori Ellis]

4 groups of 4, round-robin home and away, top 2 from each group advance.

then it's "playoffs", winners of groups play the second placed on 2 wins ( home, away, home).

then it's final four.

Thanks very much.

[RC's Boss]

0

[Kori Ellis]

Last I looked Toronto was pretty happy with Garbs. He shoots too many threes, so his percentages isn't as high as it should be. Without 3s he's shooting .46. Not bad. He'll be even better next year. But whatever, timvp doesn't like Scola. Not a big deal.

I don't think he likes or dislikes him.


I'm undecided on Scola because the power forward position in Europe can't be compared to the power forward position in the NBA. Malik Rose could go to Europe right now and average 30 and 15.

That said, the biggest plus for Scola in my book is that he's always played well against the US NT. In the game this summer, he was the best player on the court in the first quarter.

Might not mean much but it's a good sign that he comes up big in big games.

[timvp]

Last I looked Toronto was pretty happy with Garbs. He shoots too many threes, so his percentages isn't as high as it should be. Without 3s he's shooting .46. Not bad. He'll be even better next year. But whatever, timvp doesn't like Scola. Not a big deal.

Garbajosa not only shoots under 30% on threes, he averages 7 boards per 40 minutes. That's the worst rate for any bigman in the NBA who averages at least 25 minutes.

Yeah, I'm sure the Raptors are thrilled with a $12M bigman three-point shooter who is shooting at a Beno level from beyond the arc and is the worst rebounding big in the league.

I don't understand how you think failures such as Garbajosa and Oberto somehow help Scola's chances of signing for big money.

Bottomline is Scola is looking to be the highest paid second round draft pick in NBA history before he steps foot onto an NBA court. Arvydas freakin' Sabonis took a three-year, $7M deal to come into the league.

Not only is Scola a risky prospect, he wants to be the richest second rounder in league history. What don't you understand?

[RC's Boss]

I don't think he likes or dislikes him.
If he were to come at the time for the money Oberto got then yeah, I'm for it. I think Fabio makes too much money. Look at Hermann (think it's spelled correctly) in Washington, oh wait you can't look at him, he's not playing :smokin

[RC's Boss]

Garbajosa not only shoots under 30% on threes, he averages 7 boards per 40 minutes. That's the worst rate for any bigman in the NBA who averages at least 25 minutes.

Yeah, I'm sure the Raptors are thrilled with a $12M bigman three-point shooter who is shooting at a Beno level from beyond the arc and is the worst rebounding big in the league.

I don't understand how you think failures such as Garbajosa and Oberto somehow help Scola's chances of signing for big money.

Bottomline is Scola is looking to be the highest paid second round draft pick in NBA history before he steps foot onto an NBA court. Arvydas freakin' Sabonis took a three-year, $7M deal to come into the league.

Not only is Scola a risky prospect, he wants to be the richest second rounder in league history. What don't you understand? I don't think they realize Dirk, Manu, and others took some time developing their games once they came here. Even Yao took a couple years to become dominant and he's like what? 8'9 or something?!?!?! We need a role player that can get it done now. We can't wait for Scola to come around while getting paid like he's getting it done. Then he leaves after that contract is up for even more money.

[MmP]

Exactly. And that's why Scola is a risk. George Garbage was a star in Europe, but in the NBA he's a no defense playing big man chucker who doesn't hit shots or rebound.

Undersized power forwards like Marcus Fizer and Michael Wright can dominate in Europe because European post defense is softer and shorter than NBA post defense. Unless you really suck, any NBDL level bigman or above can put up stats in Europe. Especially small power forwards.

That's what Scola is. And that's why the Spurs aren't going to throw away money on a guy who could very well end up being Malik Allen with less size.
You can't just predict Scola's future in the NBA only becouse another player, from another country and another style of play sucks in his team. Basketball is no math.

[Mr. Body]

Bottomline is Scola is looking to be the highest paid second round draft pick in NBA history before he steps foot onto an NBA court. Arvydas freakin' Sabonis took a three-year, $7M deal to come into the league.

Not only is Scola a risky prospect, he wants to be the richest second rounder in league history. What don't you understand?

So you'd say he deserves more if he went undrafted? It seems you'd have no problem then. Your arguments as to what kind of salary he should get are pretty lame. The market value for a player of his caliber has already been set, partially by the Spurs in their Oberto deal. Whether he was drafted in the second round is immaterial. Is he currently worth a second round pick? No, of course not. Stop this nonsense.

And when did Sabonis come into the league for that deal? Tell me the year. Now think of what that entails. What was going on then? Where was the international game at that point? What were salaries in the NBA like in general? Pretty shoddy work there.

[ArgSpursFan]

Yeah, Malik Rose isn't as good as Michael Wright or Marcus Fizer. :rolleyes

Name me one smallish power forward who came to the US from Europe and played well.
garbajoza is doing real good ,better tham what I spected
and to tell you the truth Gasol is more a PF tham a Center.
Another PF is Diaw,he may not be the shit right now but he is smart and athletic.
And Dirk is a Pf,who happens to play all positions but center.I think Dirk could be a good example.
oh,and to be honest,every time Argentina played Germany,Scola guarded Dirk better tham many NBA PFs. and SFs.

[Kori Ellis]

If Scola would take a Oberto-like contract this summer and there's no other proven PF available, then I'd take him.

He can't be worse than Oberto/Elson. *shrug*

[ArgSpursFan]

If Scola would take a Oberto-like contract this summer and there's no other proven PF available, then I'd take him.

He can't be worse than Oberto/Elson. *shrug*

to be honest in Argentina everybody who knows basketball knows that Scola is 100 times better tham Oberto
Oberto has good BBIQ but he got to the NBA too old and he never worked out real hard to get heavier in order to push and block real big guys like Yao, or Shaq or most of the NBA starting centers.
But Scola man,he can be even more popular in SA tham what Manu is Right now.
he is all about hard work ,A team oriented player with a big heart and BIG BALLS too.

[timvp]

So you'd say he deserves more if he went undrafted? It seems you'd have no problem then. Your arguments as to what kind of salary he should get are pretty lame. The market value for a player of his caliber has already been set, partially by the Spurs in their Oberto deal. Whether he was drafted in the second round is immaterial. Is he currently worth a second round pick? No, of course not. Stop this nonsense.

How many times does this have to be explained to you? I've explained it dozens of times and I've seen others try to educate you. It never works.

A player like Oberto, and even your boy George Garbage, could get more money on the open market because they were free agents. A second round pick isn't a free agent. It doesn't matter what Scola can get on the open market because the open market doesn't apply.

For example, look at Vassilis Spanoulis. This is a guy who was a star in Europe, led Greece to a World Championship and would have commanded big money on an open market. But he was a second round pick and property of the Houston Rockets. He signed a three-year, $5M contract with a team option on the third year.

That is Scola's market value. Spanoulis is younger, more athletic, plays a position which is transferable to the NBA and has just as much international success as Scola with much worse teammates. On the open market, Spanoulis could have gotten $10M+ ... but he didn't because he wasn't on the open market.

I don't know what is so hard for you to grasp. Then again you are the one who wanted to spend the MLE on Robertas Javtokas but nowadays you never even mention his name. So I don't think you are one to go to when judging the contract that international bigman should get.


And when did Sabonis come into the league for that deal? Tell me the year. Now think of what that entails. What was going on then? Where was the international game at that point? What were salaries in the NBA like in general? Pretty shoddy work there.

So you seriously think Sabonis would have gotten less money on the open market than he ended up getting with the Blazers.

Please tell me you don't think that :lmao

[AFBlue]

If Scola would take a Oberto-like contract this summer and there's no other proven PF available, then I'd take him.

He can't be worse than Oberto/Elson. *shrug*

I don't see a PF of equal value being available this summer for what he should cost (about half MLE). I know there are overtures about his rights being traded, but I don't see how the Spurs can get real value in return until Scola comes overseas and does what some on this forum doubt he can do.

[timvp]

garbajoza is doing real good ,better tham what I spected
and to tell you the truth Gasol is more a PF tham a Center.
Another PF is Diaw,he may not be the shit right now but he is smart and athletic.
And Dirk is a Pf,who happens to play all positions but center.I think Dirk could be a good example.
oh,and to be honest,every time Argentina played Germany,Scola guarded Dirk better tham many NBA PFs. and SFs.

Did you miss the part where I said smallish power forwards?

Garbajosa is taller than Scola and is a perimter player. Yet he can't shoot and is the worst rebounding big in the NBA. That's doing "really good"? I'd hate to see bad. Oh and this stud won MVP in the same league that Scola is in.

Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol are not smallish power forwards.

[MmP]

I really don't understand why you think that just because Garbajosa is doing bad so far in the NBA, Scola has to have the same future.

[ArgSpursFan]

So you seriously think Sabonis would have gotten less money on the open market than he ended up getting with the Blazers.

Please tell me you don't think that :lmao

Sabonis was (i belive)one of the first BIG GUYS to come to the NBA along with Vlade Divac.
at that time most of the NBA team´s GM and coaches didn´t know exacly how was it gonna work out for them.
But now,with all the guys who came after them all GMs know that they can muchup with big guys in the NBA.
And I think thats why Sabonis took a not to spensive contract when he first came in.+I think he was hurt in one of his knees also before he entered to the NBA.

[timvp]

I really don't understand why you think that just because Garbajosa is doing bad so far in the NBA, Scola has to have the same future.

I never said that. I'm just point out to Mr. Body and ArgSpursFan that Garbajosa sucks. They are pointing to him as a reason why Scola is a success and the reason why Scola is worth $10M+.

If they would realize he's doing bad, I wouldn't have to hold their hand and lead them to the light.

[timvp]

Sabonis was (i belive)one of the first BIG GUYS to come to the NBA along with Vlade Divac.
at that time most of the NBA team´s GM and coaches didn´t know exacly how was it gonna work out for them.
But now,with all the guys who came after them all GMs know that they can muchup with big guys in the NBA.
And I think thats why Sabonis took a not to spensive contract when he first came in.+I think he was hurt in one of his knees also before he entered to the NBA.

He took a "not to spensive contract" because that's what second round picks do.

[ArgSpursFan]

Did you miss the part where I said smallish power forwards?

Garbajosa is taller than Scola and is a perimter player. Yet he can't shoot and is the worst rebounding big in the NBA. That's doing "really good"? I'd hate to see bad. Oh and this stud won MVP in the same league that Scola is in.

Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol are not smallish power forwards.

garbaza is a PF,if they play him as SF in toronto is another thing,but he really is a PF.
Nocioni played most of his carreer in the Argentinian league as a PF,and he played PF since he was a kid.but they play him SF cause he can shoot and also cause they have another guy but the PF and center who can rebound the ball.
Nice try though.

[AFBlue]

Did you miss the part where I said smallish power forwards?

Garbajosa is taller than Scola and is a perimter player. Yet he can't shoot and is the worst rebounding big in the NBA. That's doing "really good"? I'd hate to see bad. Oh and this stud won MVP in the same league that Scola is in.

Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol are not smallish power forwards.

I understand your reluctance, but I'm a "solution" kind of person? If not Scola for half the MLE, then who and at what cost?

I'm skeptical that the Spurs can pick someone up of similar talent with the money they will be given. My philosophy is that he's an asset to the Spurs that has yet to be used, so let's see what the Spurs have in Scola and give this kid a shot.

I personally find it hard to believe that he will do worse than Oberto or Elson.

[timvp]

garbaza is a PF,if they play it as SF in toronto is another thing.
Nocioni played most of his carreer in the Argentinian league as a PF,and he played PF since he was a kid.but they play him SF cause he can shoot and also cause they have another guy but the PF and center who can rebound the ball.
Nice try though.

Huh?

I said name a small (little, pequeno) power forward who has done well in the NBA. Garbajosa isn't small and isn't doing well. Nocioni isn't a power forward. Dirk and Gasol are like 7-foot-2.

[ArgSpursFan]

He took a "not to spensive contract" because that's what second round picks do.

he was hurt,that´s why.otherwise he could´ve been one of the greatest centers in NBA history.

[Bruno]

Name me one smallish power forward who came to the US from Europe and played well.

Udonis Haslem but he is not at all the same kind of player than Scola.

My concern about Scola is : can a 6'8" player who isn't really strong, athletic or quick be an efficient low post scorer in nba ?

[Dartherus]

Dude is not worth a 3 year deal. I can't blame the Spurs for not signing him. Dude is out of control just like his cousin Ginobilly.

Udonis Haslem but he is not at all the same kind of player than Scola.

My concern about Scola is : can a 6'8" player who isn't really strong, athletic or quick be an efficient low post scorer in nba ?

First, Scola is a legit 6'9", Ben Wallace, who's listed 6'9" in NBA seemed at least one inch shorter in the games they faced each other. ¿Why people keep stating that' he's 6'8" why they don't say anything about small NBA players listed taller than they really are?

Garbajosa was signed in a 3 year deal, with a 2 mill euros buyout (so it would have needed some bucks in the contract)...

Scola is faster and more athletic than Garbajosa, despite being a FAR more fundamentally skilled and more dangerous player....perennial MVP candiate....If Garbajosa, a player of his size, less strong, less athletic, slower, can do well in NBA (or Oberto, for taking another example of a non-atheltic player getting minutes in NBA)......why do you keep thinking that he's just an average joe coming from Europe?

Scola buyout was 14 mill euros, after the end of this season, it will be down to 800 k euros, THAT and not another, was the reaosn of Scola not coming before, not because coach and scouts think he is an average Joe and an doubtful bet for NBA.

[Testing]

Huh?

I said name a small (little, pequeno) power forward who has done well in the NBA. Garbajosa isn't small and isn't doing well. Nocioni isn't a power forward. Dirk and Gasol are like 7-foot-2.

Boris Diaw.

[Kori Ellis]

...

Scola buyout was 14 mill euros, after the end of this season, it will be down to 800 k euros, THAT and not another, was the reaosn of Scola not coming before, not because coach and scouts think he is an average Joe and an doubtful bet for NBA.

Where do you get the 800K info? Not that I don't believe you, I've just never seen it in print.

[Bruno]

BTW, Garbajosa isn't bigger than Scola. I even think that Scola is maybe 1" taller than Garbajosa.

[ArgSpursFan]

My concern about Scola is : can a 6'8" player who isn't really strong, athletic or quick be an efficient low post scorer in nba ?

Ask Dirk Nowinstky,Scola guarded him better tham Bowen when they faced each other.

[timvp]

Udonis Haslem but he is not at all the same kind of player than Scola.

Udonis Haslem the Euro :rollin


My concern about Scola is : can a 6'8" player who isn't really strong, athletic or quick be an efficient low post scorer in nba ?

Exactly. I think he could. But the chances are about 50/50.

Is that worth making Scola the highest paid second round draft pick in NBA history?

[Bruno]

Ask Dirk Nowinstky,Scola guarded him better tham Bowen when they faced each other.

When was the last time Scola played agaisnt Dirk ?

[Kori Ellis]

BTW, Garbajosa isn't bigger than Scola. I even think that Scola is maybe 1" taller than Garbajosa.

Even if that's true, Garbajosa hasn't done well.

[AFBlue]

Udonis Haslem but he is not at all the same kind of player than Scola.

My concern about Scola is : can a 6'8" player who isn't really strong, athletic or quick be an efficient low post scorer in nba ?

Why do people insist that Scola is a statue? While he lacks superior athleticism, strength, or speed, he is at least average in those categories. Yes, there are some interior defenders that will have their way with Scola athletically, but I doubt he's offensively inept against all PF/C in this league.

Also consider this. With most teams running "small-ball" lineups for longer periods on the floor, Scola shouldn't have as huge a disadvantage on size/strength as some people seem to think. It's not like every team has two crazy-athletic 7 footers on their front line....

Am I wrong?

[MmP]

In a FIBA court ArgSpursFan, a smaller court. Can't compare to NBA court.

[timvp]

Boris Diaw.

Small forward. If you want to list him as a power forward, he'd pass Garbajosa as the worst rebounding big in the league.

[ArgSpursFan]

The thing with smallers european PFs is that you never get to see them playing the PF position on NBA.
they got so good dribling and out side shooting that their NBA coaches move them to the 3 spot TIMVP.
examples:Nocioni,Dirk,Diaw,etc etc

[timvp]

The thing with smallers european PFs is that you never get to see them playing the PF position on NBA.
they got so good dribling and out side shooting that their NBA coaches move them to the 3 spot TIMVP.
examples:Nocioni,Dirk,Diaw,etc etc

So can Scola play small forward in the NBA?

[AFBlue]

Even if that's true, Garbajosa hasn't done well.

Because he doesn't know his limitations (equals "not smart"). From what I hear, Scola is an intelligent player and though he may go through an adjustment period, I think the Spurs could use his scoring ability.

[Bruno]

Udonis Haslem the Euro :rollin


Like Michael Wright.

[Dartherus]

Where do you get the 800K info? Not that I don't believe you, I've just never seen it in print.
it was info posted in the former Baskonia (Tau Ceramica's original name) forum, and in www.acb.com at his moment.

Anyway, Even if the 800 K number can't be confirmed, just think about it, after the end of this season , there will only be ONE SEASON of contract(that is confirmed) , if Tau doen't take any offer, Scola would go for free the next year.

Check this new, Tau offered an extension of his current contract until 2011, with a lot more salary, and HE REFUSED, in the new below doesn't say it, but I'll try to find the exact day it was in the spanish newspaper about the explanation of the abrupt decrease of the buyout.

http://www.deportistadigital.com/baloncesto/acb/06/07/2006/scola-renovacion-findecontrato.html

As soon as I find more info, I'll post it.

[Bruno]

Even if that's true, Garbajosa hasn't done well.

I have never said that Garbajosa was good in nba (in fact I agree with timvp that he has been quite bad in nba). I just say that you can't put Scola in the "small" category if you don't consider Garbajosa small.

[timvp]

Because he doesn't know his limitations (equals "not smart"). From what I hear, Scola is an intelligent player and though he may go through an adjustment period, I think the Spurs could use his scoring ability.

When Garbajosa was signed, his number one talent was supposedly being a "smart bigman who knows how to play the game".

[timvp]

Like Michael Wright.
I brought up Michael Wright as an example of a guy who isn't even good enough to do much in the NBDL, yet can go to Europe and flourish because that's what short power forwards do in Europe.

[AFBlue]

When Garbajosa was signed, his number one talent was supposedly being a "smart bigman who knows how to play the game".

Ouch...

But I still haven't heard about an alternative?

Or a response to teams going more "smallball" and not trotting out 7'0 260lb frontlines....what say you?

[Bruno]

First, Scola is a legit 6'9", Ben Wallace, who's listed 6'9" in NBA seemed at least one inch shorter in the games they faced each other. ¿Why people keep stating that' he's 6'8" why they don't say anything about small NBA players listed taller than they really are?


So we should consider Scola as a legit 6'9" player because some heights in nba aren't accurate. Wallace is far from being 6'9" and everybody know it.


Why do people insist that Scola is a statue? While he lacks superior athleticism, strength, or speed, he is at least average in those categories. Yes, there are some interior defenders that will have their way with Scola athletically, but I doubt he's offensively inept against all PF/C in this league.


I have never said he is a statue. Scola needs to be a good scorer in nba to be successfull and I don't know if he can be one without dominating in the post like he does in europe.

[Dartherus]

Huh?

I said name a small (little, pequeno) power forward who has done well in the NBA. Garbajosa isn't small and isn't doing well. Nocioni isn't a power forward. Dirk and Gasol are like 7-foot-2.
Garbajosa and Scola were in the same team in different times of their career, and their heights were meassured in the same place (Tau Ceramica's camp), Garbajosa was 2.05 and Scola was 2.06, 1 cm of edge in favor of Scola. ¿where do you get the 'fact' that Garbajosa is taller?

About the 'mvp' he got, he got because his team won the playoff in spanish league, but year after year, Scola's performance was celarly above Garbajosa, last season he was injured, and the perimeters player sof Tau were awful in the finals.

Ask Tim how hard it can be, even for the most dominant inside players, when a zone defense won't let the ball get into your hands while your perimeter won't get even the most open shots.

Anyway, despite not being his best season at all, he was in the starting five of both Spanish League and Euroleague (Garbajosa dind't make it to the Euroleague starting 5, not even at the second team).

BTW, not saying Garbajosa is doing great, saying how HE GET MINUTES ABOVE THE TOP PICK OF THE NBA DRAFT, he's a starter. Same with Oberto.
Scola has similar height, is faster, stronger and more athletic than those 2.

What I'm saying that IT'S IMPOSSIBLE that Scola would 2 worse than those 2, I'm just showing THE WORST PERFORMANCE POSSIBLE for Scola playing in the NBA.

[ArgSpursFan]

When was the last time Scola played agaisnt Dirk ?

2 years ago,I recall
But I think they played last year a friendly game before the world cup

[Maddog]

2 years ago,I recall
But I think they played last year a friendly game before the world cup
Dirk has improved significantly the last two years- but enough of this
When are the games?

[Mr. Body]

Timvp has irrational hate against Scola. It doesn't matter what you say to him.

[AFBlue]

I have never said he is a statue. Scola needs to be a good scorer in nba to be successfull and I don't know if he can be one without dominating in the post like he does in europe.

I just sense some exaggeration on his lack of size/athleticism.

[ArgSpursFan]

So can Scola play small forward in the NBA?


He could,but he won´t be as efective as being a PF,in my opinion.

[AFBlue]

He could,but he won´t be as efective as being a PF,in my opinion.

Sorry, but he couldn't. He's not quick enough to guard 3's but not big enough to guard 5's. He's a PF, but that's what the Spurs are looking for, right?

[ploto]

Garbajosa not only shoots under 30% on threes, he averages 7 boards per 40 minutes. That's the worst rate for any bigman in the NBA who averages at least 25 minutes.

Yeah, I'm sure the Raptors are thrilled with a $12M bigman three-point shooter who is shooting at a Beno level from beyond the arc and is the worst rebounding big in the league.

Garbo plays the 3, even though it isn't his best position, because the team needs him to. His rebounding numbers look a lot better than the Spurs starting SF (who averages 4 per 48). And I would say his selection as Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month in December indicates that some appreciate what he does. He also was rather sick for a while and lost about 10 or 15 pounds. He is just now getting back to full strength.

[AFBlue]

Garbo plays the 3, even though it isn't his best position, because the team needs him to. His rebounding numbers look a lot better than the Spurs starting SF (who averages 4 per 48). And I would say his selection as Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month in December indicates that some appreciate what he does. He also was rather sick for a while and lost about 10 or 15 pounds. He is just now getting back to full strength.

He also spends the majority of his time out on the perimeter...tough to rack up boards unless you're underneath.

I know this is not one of Scola's strengths though, so I won't harp on the issue...

[ArgSpursFan]

Garbo plays the 3, even though it isn't his best position, because the team needs him to. His rebounding numbers look a lot better than the Spurs starting SF (who averages 4 per 48). And I would say his selection as Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month in December indicates that some appreciate what he does. He also was rather sick for a while and lost about 10 or 15 pounds. He is just now getting back to full strength.

And its gonna take him some time to get used to it.That´s why i said before that many europeans PF come to the NBA and their coaches move them to the 3 spot.

[Dartherus]

He also spends the majority of his time out on the perimeter...tough to rack up boards unless you're underneath.

I know this is not one of Scola's strengths though, so I won't harp on the issue...
What I'd add is, if some GM issued a 12 mill/3year contract on Garbajosa, why some Spurs fans say a player better suited for NBA like Scola (better scorer, faster, stronger and more athletic, and 3 years younger) is not worth of a 10 mill/3year contract....or how Scola is a more risky option than Garbajosa , a player able to get the rookie of the month as soon as he was at full shape ...¿could somebody explain?