Kobe's feat isnt shit if you ask me, and here is why...

[lebomb]

He took 29 shots and 16 FTs to hit 50. A total freaking ball hog. Chris Paul only took 15 shots.....the next most shots taken by any player in the game. Hell, if he would have taken 29 shots, he would have hit 60 or more.

:rolleyes

Im just not impressed when someone shoots THAT much to reach 50 or more.

I think lots of players could do it if they ball hogged.

IMHO............. :downspin:

[lebomb]

LMAO.........he took 37 shots the night before! Ball hog.

[JamStone]

Over the four game stretch, Kobe is shooting 53% from the field, 52% from three point range, 93% from the free throw line, and has only committed 8 total turnovers.

Ballhog maybe. But, any perimeter player that shoots 50% from the field is impressive. More so with Kobe because he's taking a lot of long jumpers, fade-aways, and most of his shots are contested, sometimes by multiple defenders.

[lebomb]

If most players took that many shots.........they would get 50-60pts every night. Just look at the box scores of all games, which I just did. There were lots of players shooting 50% from the field but only taking half as many shots as Kobe.

Its all bullshit......everyone just sees the scoring, but not how many shots he took. Hell, he took other peoples shots away from them.

[lebomb]

I want anyone to come in here and tell me that Tim Duncan, or Manu Ginobilli wouldnt have 50-60pts in a game if they shot the ball 30-40 times..........tell me they wouldnt.

Noone can........

Hell, if Lebron or Wade or Arenas shot the ball that many times, they would easily have 50-60pts.

[RonMexico]

I watched the game - he was hogging the ball, but he was hitting some incredible shots. Besides, is anyone surprised Kobe is shooting for such a record? I think he's realized that he'll never win a title without Shaq and now is trying to jack up his individual numbers.

Once you get past the fact that he won't pass the ball, it's kind of impressive to watch in action because he is nailing some difficult jumpers out there. Then you also realize that he has to pass the ball to Shammond Williams, Smush Parker, and Kwame Brown... haha.

Most impressive last night was Tyson Chandler's 20-20 game - he played incredible last night and it was really fun to watch a guy genuinely love the game and want his team to win - it was the complete opposite of Kobe's performance.

[ducks]

most players can not shoot over 50% what kobe is doing is amazing
for other players to get that they would have to shot more shots
I am impressed because he is hitting over 50% now if he did it and shot 30% then I would call him a ball hog

[ducks]

I want anyone to come in here and tell me that Tim Duncan, or Manu Ginobilli wouldnt have 50-60pts in a game if they shot the ball 30-40 times..........tell me they wouldnt.

Noone can........

Hell, if Lebron or Wade or Arenas shot the ball that many times, they would easily have 50-60pts.

most games lebron does not shot over 50%

[JamStone]

Ok, he took 29 shots last night to get 50. Let's look at some other players who have taken about 29 shots this season:

http://www.nba.com/games/20061228/SEADEN/boxscore.html

Allen Iverson, 29 shots, 44 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061118/PHILAC/boxscore.html

Allen Iverson, 31 shots, 29 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061125/PHICLE/boxscore.html

Allen Iverson, 28 shots, 31 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070321/DALCLE/boxscore.html

LeBron James, 28 shots, 31 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070222/CHICLE/boxscore.html

LeBron James, 28 shots, 29 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070111/CLEPHX/boxscore.html

LeBron James, 28 shots, 34 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070302/HOUDEN/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 28 shots, 30 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070126/DENUTA/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 28 shots, 37 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061216/DENNYK/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 29 shots, 34 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061128/MEMDEN/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 30 shots, 37 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061103/MINDEN/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 30 shots, 28 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070203/LALWAS/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 29 shots, 37 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070115/UTAWAS/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 29 shots, 51 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061218/WASDEN/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 30 shots, 23 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061217/WASLAL/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 32 shots, 60 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061209/HOUWAS/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 30 shots, 41 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070311/SEATOR/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 28 shots, 36 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070202/CHISEA/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 28 shots, 29 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070131/SEAHOU/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 28 shots, 36 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070112/UTASEA/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 32 shots, 54 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061111/SEAATL/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 30 shots, 33 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070305/HOUCLE/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 32 shots, 25 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070223/HOUATL/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 28 shots, 37 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070116/HOUDAL/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 29 shots, 45 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070108/HOUCHI/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 29 shots, 31 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070107/HOUMIN/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 29 shots, 31 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070105/UTAHOU/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 31 shots, 44 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061231/MEMHOU/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 30 shots, 38 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061207/MIASAC/boxscore.html

Dwyane Wade, 27 shots, 32 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061205/MIALAC/boxscore.html

Dwyane Wade, 27 shots, 33 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061222/LALNJN/boxscore.html

Vince Carter, 30 shots, 33 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061211/MEMNJN/boxscore.html

Vince Carter, 30 shots, 37 points



Out of those great scorers, only Gilbert Arenas and Ray Allen have been able to hit the 50 point mark with about 29 shots this season. It's not that easy. How many of them could have done it in four straight games? None.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Most impressive last night was Tyson Chandler's 20-20 game - he played incredible last night and it was really fun to watch a guy genuinely love the game and want his team to win - it was the complete opposite of Kobe's performance.

I agree, while the majority like the "glory" flash of it all. I'd still rather see an individual pull off a performance as an outcome of meshing WITH the team for the win. Kobe keeps it no secret he's just playing for himself, for the glory of it, for the sake of people playing up his individual records as something to gawk at--AND if the team ends up winning along the way. So be it.

He's got it all backwards! Records are more impressive, when they're a biproduct of their desire to WIN FOR THE TEAM. Not for yourself, and possibly the team.
The last two games he was hogging the ball. Now this is just speaking on personal preference. And others don't see it the same way. And that's fine. But for me, anyone who loves to watch a team effort starts to get sick of how full of himself he comes off towards the tail-end, despite the impressive array of super-talent. After a while, it gets repugnant.
Kobe's "achievements" are not the same type of achievements I'd appreciate like I would in Golf or Tennis. And Kobe seems to forget that.
I'd rather Kobe sacrifice 2 baskets for himself, and not making the record in order to make the more optimal play for the team. Than to keep that "individual glory" on the forefront of his mind. That said, it's just a matter of personal POV's.




"The thing that was frustrating for me was people were talking about, 'He's a dirty player,' which, for me, is pretty insulting," Bryant said. "To have people talking about something else besides that -- it's a much better feeling."

[JamStone]

I forgot Michael Redd. He's had a couple 50 point games.

Gilbert Arenas is the only other player in the league that I could see get 50+ points in 4 straight games, and I don't really think he could do it because he tends to have an off shooting night every once in a while. I don't think LeBron would make enough outside jumpers and free throws to consistently do it for 4 straight games. Dwyane Wade doesn't hit 3-pointers to do it in four straight games.

What is so amazing about Kobe's 4 game stretch is that he's doing it while shooting a lot of long jumpers and he's still shooting over 50% from the field. These aren't 20+ Wilt Chamberlain dunks for 50 points. They are long jumpers, fade-away jumpers, acrobatic reverse lay-ups, 3-pointers, and many if not most of them are contested shots. FOUR STRAIGHT GAMES. That's why it's amazing.

[RonMexico]

No one's discounting how amazing it is. It's just disappointing because it's all about the glory and all about Kobe. I was simply pointing out how the Hornets were working as a team last night to rally from 18 points down and make a game of it in the 4th quarter.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'll say, the stamina that Kobe has is impressive in itself. Taking that many shots and making them.

4 straight 50 point games while having to keep up that pace of 30 + shots (aka hogging the ball. :lol)

But seriously, there's a reason why the Arenas, AI's (and Kobe's some days) don't pull it off all the time--and moreso the record is rarely matched or broken, it wears off in a week, cuz they still get tired. I don't think Kobe will make 50 if he attempts it in the next game. Though I'm not sure if he'll try.

[lordswing]

To the people saying Kobe isn't playing "for the win" and "for the team" should note that before his impressive streak of 4 50+ games, the Lakers lost 7 games when he's averaged 30 pts (he sat out one game). Sometimes your team is crap, and sometimes you just have to shoulder the load. I'd jump all over the ballhog bandwagon if Kobe didn't help his team win, but Kobe's done it everytime to help his team win.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

As long as Kobe is shooting over 50% from the field, you don't have much room to talk smack.

[Fabbs]

^^^ Yeah but the *game winner* vs Portland that started it all was a pretty greasy no call where he pushed off then travelled before sinking the shot. :rolleyes

Likewise last night New Orl made a very good comeback to come within 6. Kobester got a long rebound and was going to shoot no matter what. He came barrelling into obviously set Hornet and clancked a brick -only to have Hornet rung up for foul.

Beyond that, his shooting percentages are very good, especially his treys and FTs.

Since he is only the second to do it, obviously it is a feat. A meism feat as is his narccissitic personality? Oh yeah, but still quite a feat.

[ata]

You may hate Kobe as much as you want, however any player droping 50+ points while his team wins deserves respect.

[DarrinS]

He's the best one-on-one player in the NBA, but that's not what a TEAM needs.

[JamStone]

No one's discounting how amazing it is.

Did you read the first post in this thread. Discounting how amazing it is is what lebomb is EXACTLY doing.



It's just disappointing because it's all about the glory and all about Kobe. I was simply pointing out how the Hornets were working as a team last night to rally from 18 points down and make a game of it in the 4th quarter.

How is it all about the glory of Kobe when his team is winning these games, and all of the games were decided by 7 points or less?

If Kobe scores 50 and his team loses by 10, then that's selfish. The Lakers had lost 7 straight games before Kobe went on his tear. He's taking it upon himself to will his team to win. Sure, he's getting a lot of pub and a lot of glory, but the main focus is still winning. It's less of a story if he's doing this and he's hurting the team and they're losing. He's not. He's helping the team win.

[DarrinS]

How is it all about the glory of Kobe when his team is winning these games, and all of the games were decided by 7 points or less?

If Kobe scores 50 and his team loses by 10, then that's selfish. The Lakers had lost 7 straight games before Kobe went on his tear. He's taking it upon himself to will his team to win. Sure, he's getting a lot of pub and a lot of glory, but the main focus is still winning. It's less of a story if he's doing this and he's hurting the team and they're losing. He's not. He's helping the team win.


They may be winning games, but I don't think its benefitting the team in the long run when they're all standing around watching Kobe make ESPN highlight reels.

[Leetonidas]

Dude you need to shut the fuck up and give Kobe his props. Who cares if he's ball hogging? The Lakers are winning, and Kobe is doing some straight up incredible stuff right now. Hater.

[DarrinS]

Dude you need to shut the fuck up and give Kobe his props. Who cares if he's ball hogging? The Lakers are winning, and Kobe is doing some straight up incredible stuff right now. Hater.


Not to take anything away from his INDIVIDUAL accolades, but the Lakers just plowed through four of the worst teams in the NBA.

I know the marketing people that sell jerseys and sneakers are really excited about this.

[lebomb]

I hear ya on a 4 game stretch.....but, I still say.....you give the green light on shooting to most players in the league and they can hit 50.


And that list from above???......that was just games here and there.......let these guys have 4-5 or 10 games like Kobe to do the same and I be you will see them pull off the 50+ games in a row. NOT very many player get the green light (TOTAL) green light from the coach. Usually the coach will say, "hey fool, share the ball a bit more"

But, like a previous poster said "Kobe ISNT going to win the ship, so Phil said JACK THAT BITCH UP" ..............hence 50pt games.

Sorry, but Im NOT impressed with this run. 30-40 shots a game will produce such numbers.


Also.......can someone tell me that TIM DUNCAN or GINOBILLI cant do the same with 30-40 shots a game.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

They may be winning games, but I don't think its benefitting the team in the long run when they're all standing around watching Kobe make ESPN highlight reels.

it may not benefit the other players but it benefits the team as a whole because they are winning. cant argue with that. according to your logic its all about the team.

[DarrinS]

I'd like to see hit 50 in games vs.


Dallas
San Antonio
Houston
Detroit


Now THAT would be impressive!


EDIT> I would have included Phoenix, but they don't seem to be concerned about other teams scoring on them.

[lebomb]

Dude you need to shut the fuck up and give Kobe his props. Who cares if he's ball hogging? The Lakers are winning, and Kobe is doing some straight up incredible stuff right now. Hater.


WHO GIVES TWO FUCK IF KOBE SCORES 100pts A GAME AND IT COUNTS FOR..................................."0"

DUMBASS......basketball is a team game and its to win ships.....its not about points you idiot.

Noone will give two shits about this come July when the Lakers are bounced in the first round.....IF they make the playoffs.

Hang on to your ball hoggin green light scoring........ :lol

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

Sorry, but Im NOT impressed with this run.


if 50 point games dont impress you, then you might as well stop watching the NBA

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

WHO GIVES TWO FUCK IF KOBE SCORES 100pts A GAME AND IT COUNTS FOR..................................."0"


actually they are winning games so it does count for something

[DarrinS]

if 50 point games dont impress you, then you might as well stop watching the NBA


Didn't Kobe have some similar streak of games last year? What eventually happened to the Lakers last year?

[TheNextGen]

I'd like to see hit 50 in games vs.


Dallas
San Antonio
Houston
Detroit


Now THAT would be impressive!


EDIT> I would have included Phoenix, but they don't seem to be concerned about other teams scoring on them.

Umm 62 points against Dallas in 3 quarters remember.

[DarrinS]

if 50 point games dont impress you, then you might as well stop watching the NBA


I'm sorry, but watching Kobe knock down 50 or 60 points against a team like Memphis (17-52) is like watching footage of Lebron from his high school days.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

Didn't Kobe have some similar streak of games last year? What eventually happened to the Lakers last year?

no he never had such streak

they got eliminated. why? cause he didnt take as many shots and relied too much on his teammates. so how is passing the ball to his teammates all of a sudden going to make them better now?

[TheNextGen]

LOL @ the people who say that others can hit 50-60 points if they took that many shots. I doubt Wade and Lebron and Arenas can do what Kobe did with that many attempts. Did you see thh Defense they give to this guy...do u see the insane shots he is making. Sorry...but if other players take that many shots..they'll brick more than half of them.

Also...When wade scores 40+...he has 25 FT's...kobe can score 60 with 20 FT.

Lets place some perspective and logic please.

[DarrinS]

LOL @ the people who say that others can hit 50-60 points if they took that many shots. I doubt Wade and Lebron and Arenas can do what Kobe did with that many attempts. Did you see thh Defense they give to this guy...do u see the insane shots he is making. Sorry...but if other players take that many shots..they'll brick more than half of them.

Also...When wae scores 40+...he has 25 FT's...kobe can score 60 with 20 FT.

Lets place some perspective and logic please.


My whole point is that, YES, Kobe is a really really good player, maybe the best individual player.

But, is this really news to anyone? He's been playing at a high level for a long time and it isn't ALWAYS to the team's benefit.

[TheNextGen]

:rolleyes
I'm sorry, but watching Kobe knock down 50 or 60 points against a team like Memphis (17-52) is like watching footage of Lebron from his high school days.

Then why dont Lebron score 50 or 60 on memphis?

[TheNextGen]

My whole point is that, YES, Kobe is a really really good player, maybe the best individual player.

But, is this really news to anyone? He's been playing at a high level for a long time and it isn't ALWAYS to the team's benefit.

I dunno man..last time i checked they were like losing 7 games in a row and also had a bad February and March. Who is to say that this is the only way fo the team to make the playoffs. As long as they are winning, i cant knock it.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

My whole point is that, YES, Kobe is a really really good player, maybe the best individual player.


then this argument is closed.

his team schmucks. we know they wont win a championship they arent good enough. but thats not the point of the thread. the argument was whether he was really that good by determining the number of his shot attempts, not how far his team will go. and since you admitted he is the best player then we are done here. :fro

[lebomb]

I guarantee you.....the other players on the Lakers team are like....."that ball hoggin mufacka" They just wont say anything because of Phil.

Shaq said fuck this......Kobe plays one on one.....

[TheNextGen]

then this argument is closed.

his team schmucks. we know they wont win a championship they arent good enough. but thats not the point of the thread. the argument was whether he was really good enough by looking at his shot attempts not how far his team will go. and since you admitted he is the best player then we are done here. :fro

I agree...we can say that this isnt good for the team...but what exactly is good for this crappy Lakers team. If kobe doesnt do this...they fall straight to the lottery. AND the very same people who is calling Kobe a BALLHOG will be the same people who says he cant carry his team to the playoffs.

[lebomb]

:rolleyes

Then why dont Lebron score 50 or 60 on memphis?


Because he is a TEAM player.....and tries to get the team involved.......not one on one......that SHIT does NOT work in the long run.

Ask Michael Jordan.....didnt win SHIT scoring 50-60 on his own.....needed a team with him.


Fuck 50-60pt games shooting 30-40 times a game.....thats BULLSHIT.

[TheNextGen]

Because he is a TEAM player.....and tries to get the team involved.......not one on one......that SHIT does NOT work in the long run.

Ask Michael Jordan.....didnt win SHIT scoring 50-60 on his own.....needed a team with him.


Fuck 50-60pt games shooting 30-40 times a game.....thats BULLSHIT.


Now what happens if MJ doesnt have a team with him? Give up and whine to the lottery?
BTW..fck the long run, the lakers need to win NOW!

[King]

People are going to discount Kobe's accomplishments because he's Kobe. You put the quality of talent around Manu or Tony that Kobe has around him, and that team is lucky to win 20 games. Kobe took a crap team to within a game of knocking Phoenix out of the playoffs last year. If a guy is hitting his shots at a 50%+ clip, going for 50+ a game, and winning these games, I'm pissed off if he's not shooting the ball all the time.

To play the flip side, say Manu did shoot 30 times a game and go for 50 - you're full of it if you say you wouldn't be riding his jock.

You can hate Kobe, but to say what he's doing isn't impressive is flat out asinine.

[Ignorant Spurs fan]

then this argument is closed.

his team schmucks. we know they wont win a championship they arent good enough. but thats not the point of the thread. the argument was whether he was really that good by determining the number of his shot attempts, not how far his team will go. and since you admitted he is the best player then we are done here. :fro

:dizzy

am i seeing things or did a Mavfan just own everyone in this thread by actually using mature conduct?????

i think the world must've stood still

[TheNextGen]

People are going to discount Kobe's accomplishments because he's Kobe. You put the quality of talent around Manu or Tony that Kobe has around him, and that team is lucky to win 20 games. Kobe took a crap team to within a game of knocking Phoenix out of the playoffs last year. If a guy is hitting his shots at a 50%+ clip, going for 50+ a game, and winning these games, I'm pissed off if he's not shooting the ball all the time.

To play the flip side, say Manu did shoot 30 times a game and go for 50 - you're full of it if you say you wouldn't be riding his jock.

You can hate Kobe, but to say what he's doing isn't impressive is flat out asinine.


:king :toast :downspin: :clap

[ShackO]

???? NAry a laker fan to be found in this thread????

Anytime you are up there w/ Wilt it is something spectacular IMO........... It will not get him a title or MVP...............

One question I think needs to be asked though. WHy in the playoffs against the Suns did he just hold the ball.............. Pass the ball etc & not shoot???

[lebomb]

This is my last comment........


Im just not impressed with a player scoring 50-60pts a games......shooting the ball 30-40 times and going to the freethrow everytime the wind blows.....its bullshit, and most top tier players could do it every game if given the green light (to shut out their teammates on shots).

Thats how I feel and thats my final thought on this bullshit. :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[DOMINATOR]

Because he is a TEAM player.....and tries to get the team involved.......not one on one......that SHIT does NOT work in the long run.

Ask Michael Jordan.....didnt win SHIT scoring 50-60 on his own.....needed a team with him.


Fuck 50-60pt games shooting 30-40 times a game.....thats BULLSHIT.
yeah team player on a team thats offense strategy is to seperate the floor so lebron can play one on one.
also the lebron that takes an alley-hoop away from his own teammate


lets see here... Phil says "Kobe score more earlier" kobe starts shooting ~30 shots a game scoring 50+pts with FG% over 50%.
funny how kobe gets crap for not winning when playing the team game and is called a dirty player but when he scores like hes told he gets crap. lose lose situation if you ask me.

[Leetonidas]

I'd like to see hit 50 in games vs.


Dallas
San Antonio
Houston
Detroit


Now THAT would be impressive!


EDIT> I would have included Phoenix, but they don't seem to be concerned about other teams scoring on them.
Kobe put up 62 points on Dallas through 3 quarters, IIRC.

If you really think what Kobe is doing isn't impressive, even against bad teams, you're fucking stupid. He's miles ahead of anyone on that team and he's the first, second, and third option. They lost 7 in a row with Kobe playing "team ball" and now they've won 4 in a row because Kobe is unstoppable.

Give him some respect. I'm sure if Tim Duncan was doing this, you wouldn't be ripping on him. And shit, I don't even like Kobe, but props are due when they're earned.

[Leetonidas]

WHO GIVES TWO FUCK IF KOBE SCORES 100pts A GAME AND IT COUNTS FOR..................................."0"

DUMBASS......basketball is a team game and its to win ships.....its not about points you idiot.

Noone will give two shits about this come July when the Lakers are bounced in the first round.....IF they make the playoffs.

Hang on to your ball hoggin green light scoring........ :lol
That's not what's in question here, dumbfuck. What he's doing is EXTREMELY impressive, as in I think he's made history by doing this. Kobe knows how to play a team game but right now his team needs to win and that's what they're doing. I suppose you don't think David's 71, Wilt's 100, or Kobe's 81 were impressive at all either? Moron.

[Leetonidas]

Ok, he took 29 shots last night to get 50. Let's look at some other players who have taken about 29 shots this season:

http://www.nba.com/games/20061228/SEADEN/boxscore.html

Allen Iverson, 29 shots, 44 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061118/PHILAC/boxscore.html

Allen Iverson, 31 shots, 29 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061125/PHICLE/boxscore.html

Allen Iverson, 28 shots, 31 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070321/DALCLE/boxscore.html

LeBron James, 28 shots, 31 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070222/CHICLE/boxscore.html

LeBron James, 28 shots, 29 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070111/CLEPHX/boxscore.html

LeBron James, 28 shots, 34 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070302/HOUDEN/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 28 shots, 30 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070126/DENUTA/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 28 shots, 37 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061216/DENNYK/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 29 shots, 34 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061128/MEMDEN/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 30 shots, 37 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061103/MINDEN/boxscore.html

Carmelo Anthony, 30 shots, 28 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070203/LALWAS/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 29 shots, 37 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070115/UTAWAS/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 29 shots, 51 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061218/WASDEN/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 30 shots, 23 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061217/WASLAL/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 32 shots, 60 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061209/HOUWAS/boxscore.html

Gilbert Arenas, 30 shots, 41 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070311/SEATOR/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 28 shots, 36 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070202/CHISEA/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 28 shots, 29 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070131/SEAHOU/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 28 shots, 36 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070112/UTASEA/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 32 shots, 54 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061111/SEAATL/boxscore.html

Ray Allen, 30 shots, 33 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070305/HOUCLE/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 32 shots, 25 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070223/HOUATL/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 28 shots, 37 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070116/HOUDAL/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 29 shots, 45 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070108/HOUCHI/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 29 shots, 31 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070107/HOUMIN/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 29 shots, 31 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20070105/UTAHOU/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 31 shots, 44 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061231/MEMHOU/boxscore.html

Tracy McGrady, 30 shots, 38 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061207/MIASAC/boxscore.html

Dwyane Wade, 27 shots, 32 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061205/MIALAC/boxscore.html

Dwyane Wade, 27 shots, 33 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061222/LALNJN/boxscore.html

Vince Carter, 30 shots, 33 points

http://www.nba.com/games/20061211/MEMNJN/boxscore.html

Vince Carter, 30 shots, 37 points



Out of those great scorers, only Gilbert Arenas and Ray Allen have been able to hit the 50 point mark with about 29 shots this season. It's not that easy. How many of them could have done it in four straight games? None.

And by the way, lebomb, this guy owned your ass. Why did your argument go from 29 shots and everyone getting 50 points, to 30-40 shots? :owned

[mavs>spurs2]

What a bunch of haters. If he's shooting over 50% it's not ball hogging. Whos he gonna pass to? Lamar Odom, a 46% shooter? And it only goes downhill from there.

[Fillmoe]

yall mad cuz kobe is the best player in the NBA...... stop making stupid ass threads to discredit him.......

[Leetonidas]

And one last thing, Tim Duncan, back in 2003, put up 34 shots and ended up with 41 (or was it 47?) points. Point is, he didn't get 50.

[resistanze]

The whole "The only thing that matters is championships" argument is so fucking played out and cliche. Can't you people think of your own catch lines rather than just regurgitating what some other clown you saw on TV said?

Championships are important. We get it. I'm sure most players have the dream to win a championship, but only one team wins a year. Winning championships aren't the only reason people like basketball -- people also like basketball because it's fun sport to play and watch. Spectacular team performances are fun to see. Witness individual accomplishments are fun to see as well. Watching an player so skilled at his sport is amazing, especially when that player's team is winning as well.

If this shit doesn't impress you, do yourself a favor and turn off your TV until June.

[Fillmoe]

The whole "The only thing that matters is championships" argument is so fucking played out and cliche. Can't you people think of your own catch lines rather than just regurgitating what some other clown you saw on TV said?

Championships are important. We get it. I'm sure most players have the dream to win a championship, but only one team wins a year. Winning championships aren't the only reason people like basketball -- people also like basketball because it's fun sport to play and watch. Spectacular team performances are fun to see. Witness individual accomplishments are fun to see as well. Watching an player so skilled at his sport is amazing, especially when that player's team is winning as well.

If this shit doesn't impress you, do yourself a favor and turn off your TV until June.


:clap :clap

[mardigan]

im am sorry, but lebomb, you are just being ignant for trying to pretend what he is doing isnt impressive. Only one other player has done what he has done and that was a guy who averaged 50 for a season. They are 4 and 0 during this streak, what else is there. You guys have no argument, and your just trying your hardest to be haters. I dont like Kobe that much myself, but as a basketball fan, realize that this historical accomplishment is something I will tell my kids about one day. Either you are just hardcore Spur homers, or dont know shit about basketball, but either way you are coming off like an idiot

[ponky]

I'd like to see hit 50 in games vs.


Dallas
San Antonio
Houston
Detroit


Now THAT would be impressive!


EDIT> I would have included Phoenix, but they don't seem to be concerned about other teams scoring on them.

Dallas 12/20/2005 - 62 points
Houston 12/15/06 - 53 points
Phoenix (I include them, they're one of the best teams) - 04/07/06 - 51 points

Anyway, Duncan has scored 50+ points before and the Spurs lost (to the Mavs)...Dirk has scored 50+ points before and the Mavs lost (to the Warriors). As long as Kobe's winning those games, go for it! Plus, it's not just the points, some of his angles on the shots are ridiculous.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's disappointing to me to hear (or read) anyone who purports to be a basketball fan blasting this sort of a performance by a player.

I thought the Jordan reference earlier in this thread was quite apt. When Jordan didn't have very good teammates, he had to score the ball for his team to win. It didn't really matter what Michael did, because his teammates just weren't very good -- when he made them better, that team still wasn't going anywhere. That wasn't a reflection on Michael; it was the truth. What was a reflection on Michael was his singular ability to lift those bad teams into the playoffs by playing the role of a single-minded scorer. He had to score for his teams to even have a chance, and opposing teams knew that, but Michael scored anyway. It's part of what made Michael Jordan great.

It's also part of what made Michael Jordan a champion. When the quality of his teammates improved, Michael remained the guy who was a threat to drop 50 on an opponent any night. That made opposing teams honor his ability with their defenses (e.g., the Jordan Rules) but as the quality of his teammates improved, Michael could exploit that by doing things to make his teammates better and having them actually succeed, which didn't happen sooner because of the lack of talent around him.

I'm not suggesting that the Lakers are on the cusp of the Bulls-like run, but I do think that Kobe is very much in a situation like Jordan was in the mid-80's. They were better earlier this year, but their injuries and the great attention that teams are playing to them now exploits just how thin that roster was at the beginning of the season. If the Lakers are going to win games, Kobe has to be the show. And he's shouldered that load in a way that has actually been beneficial to the team.

Should Kobe pass up shots just to be sure that some anonymous hater on the internets can't dispute that he's a team player? Absolutely not. The name of the game is winning and with Kobe's heroics, the Lakers are doing just that.

It's a wonderful performance to watch. Respect it. Don't hate him for it.

[Medvedenko]

This Lebomb character is pure venomous hate.....
No one in 40+ years have went on a scoring binge like Kobe....and he throws trash, like...oh if any player attempts 30 shots a game they all score 50+....what a tool. In the last 40 years with all of the games, different styles, players, coaches, and media attention...why hasn't anyone duplicated this feat. Look Wilt's records will stand the test of time, different league and different players...only Kobe has approached these records...no one else. Respect....or stop watching the NBA.

[Purple & Gold]

Kobe's feat isnt shit if you ask me, and here is why...
Nobody's asking you.

[mavsfan1000]

I agree with Lebomb. Basketball is meant to be a team game. Something Kobe can't seem to do. He has to resort to hogging to get wins. Dirk Nowitzki is the opposite of Kobe as he lets his teammates get their confidence up and if they need him to come up big late in games he'll be there. He's not a ball stopper though.

[Purple & Gold]

I agree, while the majority like the "glory" flash of it all. I'd still rather see an individual pull off a performance as an outcome of meshing WITH the team for the win. Kobe keeps it no secret he's just playing for himself, for the glory of it, for the sake of people playing up his individual records as something to gawk at--AND if the team ends up winning along the way. So be it.

He's got it all backwards! Records are more impressive, when they're a biproduct of their desire to WIN FOR THE TEAM. Not for yourself, and possibly the team.
The last two games he was hogging the ball. Now this is just speaking on personal preference. And others don't see it the same way. And that's fine. But for me, anyone who loves to watch a team effort starts to get sick of how full of himself he comes off towards the tail-end, despite the impressive array of super-talent. After a while, it gets repugnant.
Kobe's "achievements" are not the same type of achievements I'd appreciate like I would in Golf or Tennis. And Kobe seems to forget that.
I'd rather Kobe sacrifice 2 baskets for himself, and not making the record in order to make the more optimal play for the team. Than to keep that "individual glory" on the forefront of his mind. That said, it's just a matter of personal POV's.
:drunk You have no idea about what you are talking about.

[resistanze]

I agree with Lebomb. Basketball is meant to be a team game. Something Kobe can't seem to do. He has to resort to hogging to get wins. Dirk Nowitzki is the opposite of Kobe as he lets his teammates get their confidence up and if they need him to come up big late in games he'll be there. He's not a ball stopper though.

Did you watch the NBA Finals last year? 2005 WCSF?

I like Dirk and all and probably want him to win MVP, but what you're saying is crap.

[mardigan]

I agree with Lebomb. Basketball is meant to be a team game. Something Kobe can't seem to do. He has to resort to hogging to get wins. Dirk Nowitzki is the opposite of Kobe as he lets his teammates get their confidence up and if they need him to come up big late in games he'll be there. He's not a ball stopper though.
You trying to talk Kobes teamates up is like Spurs fans trying to talk Dirks team down, you havent seen any games. If Dirk was on this Lakers team he would be taking all the shots as well. Kobe doesnt have anyone on his team that can be a scorer, maybe Lamar but not even him. I watvhed the game last night, and when Kobe decided to start passing, his shit teamates kept missing wide open shots when he passed to them , and the Hornets got back in the game untill Kobe took over a game. I dont understand how people can hate on this guy when theyve won 4 straight, just going out of your way to hate

[FromWayDowntown]

He has to resort to hogging to get wins.

You're right. Kobe should share the ball and the Lakers should just accept the losses that come with that. Never mind doing whatever you can to win the game -- that's so passe.

[Purple & Gold]

I agree with Lebomb. Basketball is meant to be a team game. Something Kobe can't seem to do. He has to resort to hogging to get wins. Dirk Nowitzki is the opposite of Kobe as he lets his teammates get their confidence up and if they need him to come up big late in games he'll be there. He's not a ball stopper though.
So you missed when Kobe was passing the ball, getting assists, and they were still losing?

Yeah Dirk makes his teammates better, it's not like they have talent and work hard to improve their skills. It's all Dirks doing. Howard, Terry, Stackhouse, Harris, would all be bums without him. :drunk

[Medvedenko]

Kobe was involving his teammates all year round...it's lately that he's taken it upon (under direction of Phil) to get off early. The Lakers were falling behind in the standings and were at risk to slip to 9th. These last 4 games are historical scoring outbursts not seen in 40+ years. Give him his props....as long as they win, who cares. Also, it's no secret that since Odom and Walton returned this is the result....when they were out, he wasn't scoring like mad.

[resistanze]

It's a double edged sword. If you point to the fact Kobe has won 3 rings on a finely constructed team while coming up big in the playoffs, you'll attribute all the success to Shaq. If Kobe takes over a game and wins, he's not playing a team game.

[mardigan]

By the way, like Ive said, he is a SHOOTING GUARD, its his job to shoot. And by the way, he is still averaging 5 and a half assists and 6 rebounds a game this year.

[Medvedenko]

Like I said before...people see what they want to see. I have been pissed when kobe chucks 25 shots and makes 9 or 10...it pisses me off. But when the man hits 50% you feed the hot hand. Usually in a game the hot hand is fed until it's out...but it's been 4 games...no difference, his team is feeding the hot hand. They are still injured, they have no bench, Mo evans, radman and cook are all out right now.

[Purple & Gold]

I watched the game - he was hogging the ball, but he was hitting some incredible shots. Besides, is anyone surprised Kobe is shooting for such a record? I think he's realized that he'll never win a title without Shaq and now is trying to jack up his individual numbers.
Keep thinking that Suns fan. Lakers will win another one before the Suns win their first one.

Once you get past the fact that he won't pass the ball, it's kind of impressive to watch in action because he is nailing some difficult jumpers out there. Then you also realize that he has to pass the ball to Shammond Williams, Smush Parker, and Kwame Brown... haha.
Did you really watch the game? Yes he does hog the ball, but he does pass it. I know you hate anything Laker, but at least recognize that he does pass the ball, and sets up his teammates for scoring chances.

Most impressive last night was Tyson Chandler's 20-20 game - he played incredible last night and it was really fun to watch a guy genuinely love the game and want his team to win - it was the complete opposite of Kobe's performance.
Tyson's game was impressive, but it has more to do with the Lakers weak defense and rebounding than it was Tyson dominating.

As for knowing that Kobe doesn't "genuinely love the game and want his team to win", I would like to know how you know this. What great insight has lead you to this realization? Do you know Kobe personally? Are you some type of Shaman? I'm interested in knowing how you know so much about the inner workings and thoughts of basketball players. Share with us your great insight Ron.

[Purple & Gold]

No one's discounting how amazing it is. It's just disappointing because it's all about the glory and all about Kobe.
This is your opinion. Don't try to talk about it like it's a fact.

[mardigan]

Its no wonder other temas fans hate Spur fans when trash like this gets posted. By the way, one of the top 10 worst threads of the year

[Fillmoe]

mavsfan1000 do us all a favor.... take yourself, your dirk nowitzki blow up doll, your retarded down syndrome girlfriend ponky, your dallas mavericks 2006 western conference champs t shirt and learn something about basketball before you post again........

[Purple & Gold]

DarrinS avatar is perfect.

I honestly think it's Ron Burgundy talking whenever I read his posts.

[mardigan]

DarrinS avatar is perfect.

I honestly think it's Ron Burgundy talking whenever I read his posts.
"We're on? Right now? I dont believe you."

[Purple & Gold]

"We're on? Right now? I dont believe you."
:lol :lol

[mavsfan1000]

If Dirk started taking 30 shots a game it would hurt Dallas's flow. Sure Dirk will have some big point total games but it will be detrimental to other players on the team as they won't get as many touches which will lead to more losses. Terry will tell you that he is happy that Dirk isn't scoring more points.

[bdictjames]

The Lakers win when he makes shots thats for sure. If its possible Id give the ball to him almost all the time on offense.

[mardigan]

If Dirk started taking 30 shots a game it would hurt Dallas's flow. Sure Dirk will have some big point total games but it will be detrimental to other players on the team as they won't get as many touches which will lead to more losses. Terry will tell you that he is happy that Dirk isn't scoring more points.
Of fucking course it would hurt their flow, they have good players all over the court, if Kobe was on the Mavs and Dirk was on the Lakers, it would flip, Dirk would have to shoot more and Kobe would have to shoot less. Do you not understand the concept of having good teamates around you? They take the scoring pressure off of great players, like Scottie did with Mike

[mavsfan1000]

So you think Kobe would be as effective with less shots? I don't think so. He struggled when he doesn't get that many shots. That is his biggest flaw. He needs a lot of shots to get in a flow. Kobe with Shaq was of course successful because Shaq shot 60% from the field. Dirk would obviously be successful with Shaq as well with that type of percentage.

[mardigan]

Well lets see, last year he averaged 27 fg attempts per game, and averaged 35. This year he is averaging 22 attempts, and averaging 31. His fg% lat year was 45%, this year, 47%. So that argument doesnt hold up, plus his assists have gone up one this year from last. Dirk only takes 4 less shots a game on a great team, with multiple all stars, so to think that if he had lesser players he wouldnt take 4 more shots a game is stupid

[Medvedenko]

Who's talking about Shaq...oh don't look, but Kobe is less than a point off for effeciency just below Dirk. A successful team has more than 1 option. Early on the season wheh Kobe was hurt and they had a healthy team they were a top 5 team. What's your point....take off Devin, Howard and Damp off you team with no george, stack and your team nose dives just like the lakers.

[mavsfan1000]

Dirk's percentages are still better. Kobe scoring a lot on a bad team is not as impressive as him scoring a lot on a good team.

[ponky]

kobe's pimp

[mavsfan1000]

Who's talking about Shaq...oh don't look, but Kobe is less than a point off for effeciency just below Dirk. A successful team has more than 1 option. Early on the season wheh Kobe was hurt and they had a healthy team they were a top 5 team. What's your point....take off Devin, Howard and Damp off you team with no george, stack and your team nose dives just like the lakers.
Kobe's team isn't that bad off. You've heard of Odom and Walton? How about Turiaf.

[Medvedenko]

With every post you are looking completely baseless with your comments. I have heard of Turiaf...a rookie who has also been battling back spasms this year and has missed games. Kobe scored plenty on a good team...how about the 30 he dropped per game in the 02/03 season...dumbass...please look up stats if you're going to argue them. With your logic KG is a better player than dirk...and I agree with that.

[mardigan]

Dirk's percentages are still better. Kobe scoring a lot on a bad team is not as impressive as him scoring a lot on a good team.
Damn you are a mav homer
Dirk-50% from the field, 41% from 3, 90 from ft
Kobe-47% from the field, 37% from 3, 87% from ft
Kobe has taken twice as many 3s and 200 more fts.
So yes, Dorks % are better, but not by much, especially when your comparing to completely different positions at two completely different heights. And I dont understand your last statement, do you mean scoring against bad teams or because he is on a bad team?

[mavsfan1000]

With every post you are looking completely baseless with your comments. I have heard of Turiaf...a rookie who has also been battling back spasms this year and has missed games. Kobe scored plenty on a good team...how about the 30 he dropped per game in the 02/03 season...dumbass...please look up stats if you're going to argue them. With your logic KG is a better player than dirk...and I agree with that.
I'm not going to repeat myself. I've already proved you wrong. You already got owned and you resort to comments like dumbass. OWNED

[mardigan]

Kobe's team isn't that bad off. You've heard of Odom and Walton? How about Turiaf.
Your kidding right? Odom is pretty good, but on every team he has ever been on will completely dissapear. Walton has been hurt all year and is just now getting back in the swing of things. And the fact you brought up Turiaf assures me you havent watched any Lakers game or are just dumb, the guy averages 13 minutes a game

[Medvedenko]

How the hell did I get owned.....can anyone tell me.....Chandler has a better percentage than Dirk...big fucking deal. I still think you put KG on Dallas and take off Dirk...you handle would be kgfan1000 rather than the latter....bottom line, Dirk scores 4 50 point games in a row on a depleted Dallas team, he'd be a hero and get a key to the city....baseless...

[mardigan]

I'm not going to repeat myself. I've already proved you wrong. You already got owned and you resort to comments like dumbass. OWNED
No, youve proven you dont know shit about basketball, Kobe averaged 28, 25 and 30 on those championship teams, pretty good if you ask me. I think you just like to make statements without any backing to them

[mavsfan1000]

Damn you are a mav homer
Dirk-50% from the field, 41% from 3, 90 from ft
Kobe-47% from the field, 37% from 3, 87% from ft
Kobe has taken twice as many 3s and 200 more fts.
So yes, Dorks % are better, but not by much, especially when your comparing to completely different positions at two completely different heights. And I dont understand your last statement, do you mean scoring against bad teams or because he is on a bad team?
I know that doesn't seem like a lot to you but it's enough to make the difference between winning and losing occasionally. I guess in Kobe's case it is both. He scored a lot against bad teams and barely won and his team isn't that good. God Kobe fans are so annoying.

[mardigan]

I know that doesn't seem like a lot to you but it's enough to make the difference between winning and losing occasionally. I guess in Kobe's case it is both. He scored a lot against bad teams and barely won and his team isn't that good. God Kobe homers are so annoying.
So are Mav homers. I dont even like Kobe that much but to say that what he is doing isnt impressive, or that he isnt looking out for the best intrests of the team is dumb. You dont think it would be harder for Dirk to shoot a high percentage if he had shit around him? Kobe is that teams only real game changer, and teams key on him, and he still dominates. Dirk wouldnt be as good as he is without all the shooters around him to space the floor, you could double him every time he had the ball. So I guess you think that if he passed more his team would have won those last 4 right?

[Medvedenko]

Actually NBA fans....I love Kobe, but I also love the game and am a student of its history. What Dirk is doing is great...just like KG when he won his MVP on a solid team. A dallas fan arguing a laker fan about the virtues of winning and losing...well I can argue about winning...you my friend have more experience in losing. Please share me your wisdom.

[mavsfan1000]

How the hell did I get owned.....can anyone tell me.....Chandler has a better percentage than Dirk...big fucking deal. I still think you put KG on Dallas and take off Dirk...you handle would be kgfan1000 rather than the latter....bottom line, Dirk scores 4 50 point games in a row on a depleted Dallas team, he'd be a hero and get a key to the city....baseless...
I'm not saying scoring doesn't matter. Chandler is way behind Dirk in point total. Dirk has found a happy medium scoring 25 points a game while getting his teammates involved. Dirk also gets 10 rebounds a game and challenges shots around the rim because of his height. Kobe is no doubt the better scorer but Dirk is the better all around player. KG is no doubt a great player and about the same level as Kobe but he is not as much of a offensive threat as Dirk. Like I said Dirk has found a happy medium where ball bog/Lack of offensive threat is not questioned.

[Medvedenko]

Once again you pull the better overal player card....simply madness I say. How does Dirk make his teammates better...what amazing stat will you pull out your ass.....A 7 footer averaging 9 boards....amazing. Still, no arguement about winning and losing. Let's not put the last 7 years on the table.

[mardigan]

I'm not saying scoring doesn't matter. Chandler is way behind Dirk in point total. Dirk has found a happy medium scoring 25 points a game while getting his teammates involved. Dirk also gets 10 rebounds a game and challenges shots around the rim because of his height. Kobe is no doubt the better scorer but Dirk is the better all around player. KG is no doubt a great player and about the same level as Kobe but he is not as much of a offensive threat as Dirk. Like I said Dirk has found a happy medium where ball bog/Lack of offensive threat is not questioned.
You realize Dirk doesnt even average a block a game right? You realize he only averages 9.6 rebounds a game, less than 4 more than Kobe. Kobe is also a shutdown defender, something Dirk knows nothing about. And like I said, Kobe only shoots 4 more times a game than Dirk, so its not like thats a huge step up for a shooting guard, and he averages 2 more assists a game than Dirk, why dont you look at some stats before you make these great claims. Shit, Duncan averages 20, 11, 2 and a half blocks, just as many assists as Dirk, and shoots much higher from the field than Dirk, it doesnt mean I think Tim is better than Kobe

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Kobe is the best player in the league.

[Leetonidas]

Kobe is a pretty damn good defender in actuality. You really need to take off your homer goggles because he owned Dallas through 3 quarters. Kobe is the best player in the NBA, and yes that means better than Dirk, and if you were to put Dirk on the Lakers, they'd be lucky to amass 38 wins by the end of the season. Give him his damn props dude, shit.

[Medvedenko]

Just look at Dirk...a 7 footer who can't board more than 10 per game, as well as block 1 shot and is barely shooting 50% this year, let alone shooting 47% for his career. His team is great...well coached and put together, no doubt he's the centre piece...but you place any other forward allstar in that position and they do very well.

[mavsfan1000]

Watch mav games and you will see. Dirk spreads the court out for Josh Howard to get many easy shots that he normally would see a double team without Dirk. Terry would likely never see an open shot as Dallas would lack a go to player without Dirk. It goes on and on. Dirk gets used as a decoy a lot as other teams will focus a lot on him. Also the argument that Dirk doesn't play defense anymore doesn't work as the mavs are the 3rd best defensive team. To me Terry is Dallas's weakest defender while Dirk has been much improved defensively. Too bad he didn't put this much effort on the defensive end when Nash was here.

[Purple & Gold]

Kobe is no doubt the better scorer but Dirk is the better all around player.
:drunk

[Amuseddaysleeper]

kobe has been on all nba defensive team on several occasions


mavsfan, the hole you keep digging yourself into gets deeper and deeper

[mardigan]

Watch mav games and you will see. Dirk spreads the court out for Josh Howard to get many easy shots that he normally would see a double team without Dirk. Terry would likely never see an open shot as Dallas would lack a go to player without Dirk. It goes on and on. Dirk gets used as a decoy a lot as other teams will focus a lot on him. Also the argument that Dirk doesn't play defense anymore doesn't work as the mavs are the 3rd best defensive team. To me Terry is Dallas's weakest defender while Dirk has been much improved defensively. Too bad he didn't put this much effort on the defensive end when Nash was here.
Damn, well if that isnt the pot calling the kettle black. Pray tell, how many Lakers games have you watched this year?

[E20]

This thread should be closed.

[mavsfan1000]

Damn, well if that isnt the pot calling the kettle black. Pray tell, how many Lakers games have you watched this year?
Oh yeah the mighty lakers. They must be feared to win a championship. Oh wait they suck. lol

[Medvedenko]

I agree...the thread is useless without a fair arguement....
Mavsfan1000, I appluad you for sensless and complete homer-erotic claims that you weild at a moments notice. I've been battling you for over a week now regarding Kobe. I'm probaby done....another 50 point game tomorrow maybe....:)
Well, I'll let the other fans of the NBA take over....

[mardigan]

Oh yeah the might lakers. They must be feared to win a championship. Oh wait they suck. lol
So that means none. So that means you havent watched Kobe or his "great teamate according to you Turiaf play. SO that means that you officially dont know what you are talking about. And one more question, all around means defense to right? So how could a 7 footer who doesnt average 10 rebounds, a block, or a steal a game be better than a first team defender on defense?

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh yeah the mighty lakers. They must be feared to win a championship. Oh wait they suck. lol

But give Kobe teammates like Josh Howard or Jason Terry, and I doubt that he's having to shoot the ball 35-40 times a night for his team to have a chance to win. I doubt that his team wouldn't be in contention.

Your argument, at this point, seems to be that Dirk is a better player because Dirk has better teammates.

[mardigan]

But give Kobe teammates like Josh Howard or Jason Terry, and I doubt that he's having to shoot the ball 35-40 times a night for his team to have a chance to win. I doubt that his team wouldn't be in contention.

Your argument, at this point, seems to be that Dirk is a better player because Dirk has better teammates.
Served

[mardigan]

You still trying to think of something?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You still trying to think of something?


You mean there's more?

[leemajors]

http://www.impawards.com/2004/posters/you_got_served.jpg

[lebomb]

I agree with Lebomb. Basketball is meant to be a team game. Something Kobe can't seem to do. He has to resort to hogging to get wins. Dirk Nowitzki is the opposite of Kobe as he lets his teammates get their confidence up and if they need him to come up big late in games he'll be there. He's not a ball stopper though.


Thanks........someone gets it.

[resistanze]

^^^^:lmao

A whole thread of dozens of people tearing your arguments into pieces and you come back when Mavsfan agrees with you, someone who ALSO can't defend his stance. :lmao

[Medvedenko]

I agree basketball is a team game....people are passing, setting screens, running the offense, rebounding and communicating...the result 4 wins. Oh, and mavsfan1000 and lebomb are buddies....nuff said.

[mardigan]

Thanks........someone gets it.
Yea, glad you and the tard get it

[mavsfan1000]

I just looked at Kobe's games. He had 7 games in a row without shooting over 50%. No surprise they lost all 7 games. Stop defending this ball hog and all will be good.

[BUMP]

how could a 7 footer who doesnt average 10 rebounds, a block, or a steal a game be better than a first team defender on defense?

the "intangibles" he brings to the game. plus he's 7 foot so the opponent has a harder time seeing the basket. sometimes the impact Dirk has doesnt always show up in the box scores



































































































































































































































































































:drunk :drunk
:lmao :lmao :lmao

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

And Dirk just had a 4 game stretch where he shot 41% from the floor.

I must not get this point either.

[leemajors]

I just looked at Kobe's games. He had 7 games in a row without shooting over 50%. No surprise they lost all 7 games. Stop defending this ball hog and all will be good.

that's incredibly relevant to kobe's streak of 50+ point games.

[mavsfan1000]

that's incredibly relevant to kobe's streak of 50+ point games.
It just goes to show you how inconsistent Kobe is. Wow do Kobe fans like to stretch for reasons why Kobe is the best. I'm not convinced.

[mardigan]

Bump, Im not trying to say that Dirk isnt incredibly important to the Mavs record, he is the main reason for it. What I am saying is that Kobe defends the opponents best player most games, while putting up incredible numbers. I know Dirk is one of the best players in the league, Im just trying to figure out how some people on here think that his streak is unimpressive. And, no, I dont think Dirk, Tim, or Lebron are as good as Kobe. If you took Kobe off the Lakers they would be one of the worst teams in the NBA, if you took Dirk off the Mavs, they would probably still be in the playoffs

[Purple & Gold]

Wow do Kobe fans like to stretch for reasons why Kobe is the best. I'm not convinced.
I was about to say the same think for Dirk fans.

[mardigan]

It just goes to show you how inconsistent Kobe is. Wow do Kobe fans like to stretch for reasons why Kobe is the best. I'm not convinced.
What makes you think that Spur fans, Piston fans, Raptor fans, or any fan that thinks his streak is impressive are Kobe fans? Ive already said I really dont like the guy too much, but as a basketball fan that knows anything about basketball, you have to be impressed with this streak.

[leemajors]

It just goes to show you how inconsistent Kobe is. Wow do Kobe fans like to stretch for reasons why Kobe is the best. I'm not convinced.

he's shooting 46.7% for the season, and averaging over 30 ppg. how is that inconsistent? i'm no kobe lover, but you're going way overboard and sounding dumber than usual.

[mavsfan1000]

he's shooting 46.7% for the season, and averaging over 30 ppg. how is that inconsistent? i'm no kobe lover, but you're going way overboard and sounding dumber than usual.
It's not terrible but how many games Kobe has struggled and yet people act like he is Jordan. It is pathetic. It is respectable but wow do you people overreact to his latest achievements which are all about shooting a lot.

[Kori Ellis]

To try to diminish this stretch by Kobe is embarrassing. He's shooting upwards of 50%, so he's not just out there chucking away.

If you don't appreciate these last four games and how good Kobe has been, then you probably aren't a basketball fan - you're just a [insert team name here] homer.

[mavsfan1000]

I am not looking at 4 games and saying what Kobe is. I'm looking at his whole season including the 7 game stretch where he couldn't reach 50%. Call me a homer or whatever but if you are shooting that much during a season you are bound to get hot and look great with point totals. Jordan shot at 50% for most his career though so Kobe still has a ways to go.

[Purple & Gold]

It's not terrible but how many games Kobe has struggled and yet people act like he is Jordan. It is pathetic. It is respectable but wow do you people overreact to his latest achievements which are all about shooting a lot.
:lmao You've been smoking way too many rocks.

And BTW do you remember when Jordan played?

[mardigan]

Dirk took 24 shots against Clevland and had 23 points. Kobe took 29 shots against the Hornets and had 50. Hmmm, I guess Kobe does shoot to much. And by the way, his fg% the last 4 games, 59% against Portland, 49% against Minnisota, 54% against Memphis, and 55% against the Hornets. Yeah, he shoots WAY to much

[Fillmoe]

if you would like to see mavsfan1000 banned for excessive homerism please type 1

[_dirk4mvp]

1.



He's making real Mavs fans like myself look bad.

[mardigan]

I am not looking at 4 games and saying what Kobe is. I'm looking at his whole season including the 7 game stretch where he couldn't reach 50%. Call me a homer or whatever but if you are shooting that much during a season you are bound to get hot and look great with point totals. Jordan shot at 50% for most his career though so Kobe still has a ways to go.
1, not even Spursdynasty is this bad



Jordan shot 50% 6 years out of 15, I wouldnt call that most of a career, I would call that you making shit up again. I guess that you really dont get the fact that only one other player in history has done what Kobe has done. You really have no valid argument, and every one you bring up isnt true

[Borat Sagdiyev]

1.

I no like jews. Ban Mavsfan and all jews please

[mardigan]

What else ya got? Make up some more shit......

[mavsfan1000]

I'll put Kobe ahead of Nash because of his 4 game streak but Dirk is still on top imo. Maybe Kobe will outplay Dirk for the rest of the season. We'll see but I'm counting all 67 games in why I'm picking Dirk. Put Kobe on Dallas instead of Dirk and you think the mavs go 57-11? You gotta admit having a big man that can score a lot is really valuable because they also shoot high percentages and rebound a lot. Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, and Dirk have been the most valuable pieces to a championship team though Garnett has been on bad teams. I'm not trying to discredit what Kobe has done these last 4 games. I'm just looking at the overall picture of the season. Kobe>>>Dirk if we are talking about these last 4 games.

[mardigan]

I'll put Kobe ahead of Nash because of his 4 game streak but Dirk is still on top imo. Maybe Kobe will outplay Dirk for the rest of the season. We'll see but I'm counting all 67 games in why I'm picking Dirk. Put Kobe on Dallas instead of Dirk and you think the mavs go 57-11? You gotta admit having a big man that can score a lot is really valuable because they also shoot high percentages and rebound a lot. Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, and Dirk have been the most valuable pieces to a championship team though Garnett has been on bad teams. I'm not trying to discredit what Kobe has done these last 4 games. I'm just looking at the overall picture of the season. Kobe>>>Dirk if we are talking about these last 4 games.
Why dont you read the name of this thread, its not called Kobe>Dirk, it was made to discredit a feat that has only been done once before

[Fillmoe]

well if you're not trying to discredit kobe than what the fuck are you trying to do? acknowledge the fact the dudes been tearing it up for the last week and keep it moving..... but nope... instead your homer ass is in here trying to make people believe that dirk nowitzki is a better player than kobe bryant......

[mavsfan1000]

Ok at first I enjoyed joining the troll efforts from Lebomb but truthfully it is remarkable what Kobe is doing right now. Good enough?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Jordan shot at 50% for most his career though so Kobe still has a ways to go.


In the 80s, they were a ton of guys who shot the ball at/over 50%. Different era.

[mavsfan1000]

In the 80s, they were a ton of guys who shot the ball at/over 50%. Different era.
And? What's that have to do with anything? Jordan kept shooting at or near 50% most his career. He started falling of at the end for sure but in his prime he was a 50% shooter. Jordan is the greatest player of all-time. :king

[Leetonidas]

I'll put Kobe ahead of Nash because of his 4 game streak but Dirk is still on top imo.
And Dirk is still on top because YOU'RE A FUCKING HOMER!

Kobe is better than anyone in the NBA right now, and is the closest thing we have to a Jordan-incarnate. Take off your damn homer goggles.

[Fillmoe]

mavsfan you are one funny ass dude.... you will say anything to discredit kobe...... i cant wait til the mavs lose in the playoffs and you switch up teams again

[Leetonidas]

Ok at first I enjoyed joining the troll efforts from Lebomb but truthfully it is remarkable what Kobe is doing right now. Good enough?
This, my fellow posters, is called getting thoroughly...

http://bs.bungie.org/owned.gif

[Findog]

I say this as a Mavs fan that cut my teeth watching the Showtime Lakers chew up and spit out the Aguirre/Blackman Mavericks. Then I witnessed the nineties where the Lakers won something insane like 45 out of 50 against us, many of those Shaq and Kobe totally dominating Shawn Bradley and Cedric Ceballos. I HATE the purple and gold. And yet if you can't accept what Kobe is doing as amazing, then you're not a basketball fan, pure and simple. I hate to admit it, and I hate that it's true, but I actually kind of LIKE Kobe, and I can't say that about any other Lakers besides Magic, Derek Harper and Sam Perkins.

[mavsfan1000]

And Dirk is still on top because YOU'RE A FUCKING HOMER!

Kobe is better than anyone in the NBA right now, and is the closest thing we have to a Jordan-incarnate. Take off your damn homer goggles.
Dirk on court/off court +11.5/-2.7. Kobe on court/off court +1.9/-6.8. This is proof thanks to 82games.com on who is MVP worthy. No one has a better on court/off court than Dirk that plays as many minutes.

[Findog]

He took 29 shots and 16 FTs to hit 50. A total freaking ball hog. Chris Paul only took 15 shots.....the next most shots taken by any player in the game. Hell, if he would have taken 29 shots, he would have hit 60 or more.

:rolleyes

Im just not impressed when someone shoots THAT much to reach 50 or more.

I think lots of players could do it if they ball hogged.

IMHO............. :downspin:


With the injuries to Odom and Walton, the Lakers have been fielding a D-League team around him. It's incredibly difficult to score 50+ in an NBA game, let alone four games in a row. When it comes to the post-Shaq Lakers, they tend to win when he goes off like this. That's the best argument in Kobe's favor. Los Angeles has a better chance to win when Kobe is doing it himself instead of having Smush Parker and Brian Cook brick jumpers. Blame Kupchak for constructing a roster where this is the case.

[resistanze]

Dirk on court/off court +11.5/-2.7. Kobe on court/off court +1.9/-6.8. This is proof thanks to 82games.com on who is MVP worth. No one has a better on court/off court than Dirk that plays as many minutes.

Kobe: 3 rings
Dirk: 0 rings


...You might as well.

[mavsfan1000]

Kobe: 3 rings
Dirk: 0 rings


...You might as well.
Shaq 4 rings
Kobe 3 rings. lol

[mardigan]

Dirk on court/off court +11.5/-2.7. Kobe on court/off court +1.9/-6.8. This is proof thanks to 82games.com on who is MVP worthy. No one has a better on court/off court than Dirk that plays as many minutes.
Your making my point for me that Kobe has no team, look how much they get outscored by when he isnt on the court

[mardigan]

And? What's that have to do with anything? Jordan kept shooting at or near 50% most his career. He started falling of at the end for sure but in his prime he was a 50% shooter. Jordan is the greatest player of all-time. :king
HE ONLY SHOT OVER 50% 6 TIMES IN HIS CAREER OUT OF 15. THAT IS NOT MOST OF A CAREER

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

HE ONLY SHOT OVER 50% 6 TIMES IN HIS CAREER OUT OF 15. THAT IS NOT MOST OF A CAREER


It's actually 8 if you round up his two seasons at .495.

[resistanze]

Shaq 4 rings
Kobe 3 rings. lol

Then Shaq>Kobe>>>Dirk :lol

[mardigan]

It's actually 8 if you round up his two seasons at .495.
Well I didnt

[mavsfan1000]

Then Shaq>Kobe>>>Dirk :lol
Well considering they were on the SAME TEAM I think you can get why they were dominant. They should have 5 titles together though and possibly more if they could've gotten along.

[Purple & Gold]

Ok at first I enjoyed joining the troll efforts from Lebomb but truthfully it is remarkable what Kobe is doing right now. Good enough?
:oops :nutkick:

[Purple & Gold]

I say this as a Mavs fan that cut my teeth watching the Showtime Lakers chew up and spit out the Aguirre/Blackman Mavericks. Then I witnessed the nineties where the Lakers won something insane like 45 out of 50 against us, many of those Shaq and Kobe totally dominating Shawn Bradley and Cedric Ceballos. I HATE the purple and gold. And yet if you can't accept what Kobe is doing as amazing, then you're not a basketball fan, pure and simple. I hate to admit it, and I hate that it's true, but I actually kind of LIKE Kobe, and I can't say that about any other Lakers besides Magic, Derek Harper and Sam Perkins.
:clap :clap

[mavsfan1000]

HE ONLY SHOT OVER 50% 6 TIMES IN HIS CAREER OUT OF 15. THAT IS NOT MOST OF A CAREER
I said at or NEAR. He was very close to 50% a few years so than it is most of his career. I'm logging off as I've posted too much on this thread. I'm getting a headache. :p:

[mardigan]

I hated Kobe when he was with Shaq more than any player Ive hated for a long time. But you only hate the really good ones. I hated him because I knew that every shot that he took had a good chance to go in. As soon as Shaq left and the Lakers dropped off, I stopped hating Kobe and started appreciating how good he was. Now I hate Dirk more than any player since Malone and Stockton. You only hate the good ones

[mardigan]

Jordan shot at 50% for most his career though so Kobe still has a ways to go.
Go troll someplace else

[TheNextGen]

Dirk's percentages are still better. Kobe scoring a lot on a bad team is not as impressive as him scoring a lot on a good team.


:drunk :dramaquee

[TheNextGen]

Kobe's team isn't that bad off. You've heard of Odom and Walton? How about Turiaf.

HAHAH COMEDY at its best!!

[TheNextGen]

Shaq 4 rings
Kobe 3 rings. lol

this proves taht Shaq and Kobe has more rings then Dirk. is that your point?

[lebomb]

:hang Snickering at this thread.

I still say, give the green light to the top players in the league......30-40 shots a game and you will see a shit load of over 50pt games.

This is JMHO.....so hate on me if you must. :hang

[lebomb]

I just saw that V. Carter went 13-20 from the field and had 11-13 from the stripe tonight for 40pts......that is equally or more impressive than Kobes 29 and 37 shot attempts to hit 50 and 60 IMHO. If V Carter got to put up another 10 shots, he would have had 55 or 60pts......its all about touches. You get 30-40 shots in a game, you better hit 50.

[lebomb]

Im gone now........carry on.

[JamStone]

http://www.nba.com/games/20061222/LALNJN/boxscore.html

Funny ... the last time Vince Carter took 30 shots in a game, he scored 33 points.

[Mark Blount]

i think i scored 87 in a rec basketball league in 9th grade

[lebomb]

http://www.nba.com/games/20061222/LALNJN/boxscore.html

Funny ... the last time Vince Carter took 30 shots in a game, he scored 33 points.


OK dumbass......lets point out one game. I can find a BUNCH of Kobe ugly ass games.....it just everyone falls over when he scores 50, but took over 30 shots and didnt get but 2 assists......fuck that! That is green light city and any star player can do that shit if given the opportunity.

I know someone who was in the NBA for 10yrs and he said there is a handful of players that get the green light to shoot at will.

Kobe is one of them mufuckas.

[lebomb]

Ya know what I really dont care anymore........Kobe is #1



:rolleyes

[JamStone]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/game_by_game_stats.html

Kobe Bryant has taken 30 or more shots in six games this season. In five of those games, he scored 50 or more points. In the other game, he scored 40 points. In those six games, he shot 112-224 from the field, exactly 50% from the field, for a perimeter player.

I'm glad you finally can agree how great Kobe is.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this guys is nothin more than a stat padder

he has games where he scores alot and post no assists, then you see him in the next game where he scores jackshit, but padd up the reb + asst stats to bring it up to avg stats...

[Findog]

this guys is nothin more than a stat padder


No, you're wrong. Almost everytime Kobe goes off, the Lakers win. That validates his strategy, especially considering they got nothing outside of Odom and Walton. Bynum has shown some promise, but that's about it. Even Tex Winter, consummate team guy that he is, admits Kobe scoring at will represents their best chance to win.

Kobe is simply the most complete offensive player in the game today, and certainly among the best of alltime. I would say he's pretty much approaching Jordan territory if he hasn't caught up to him already. Kobe is the only guy routinely trapped and double-teamed 35 feet out. He can drive as well as Wade, AI or Vince, but his ability to hit a contested 35 footer means opposing defenses have to respect his perimeter shooting almost as soon as he crosses the midcourt line. All this "makes his teammates better" shit is just a mirage and overblown. The Lakers had no business being in a seventh game against Phoenix, but Kobe got them there by out-Nashing Nash. Kobe has shown he can be a creator, it's just a matter of whether or not his teammates are competent enough to execute. When they're not, Kobe has to take matters into his own hands. It's as simple as that.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that it's probably not easy for those guys to play with Kobe, and it's not easy for Kobe to play with guys that are significantly less talented than him. If you've ever watched a Jason Kidd team, one thing you'll notice is that Kidd could easily average 18-22 assists per game instead of the 11 that he gets if his teammates had the same kind of court vision that he does. He sees things way before they develop and sometimes his teammates aren't always in the right spot to receive a pass because they don't have that sixth sense on the court that Kidd does. I think it's kinda like that now for Kobe. It wasn't a problem when he had Shaq down low along with excellent role players.

[FlyHigh07]

this guys is nothin more than a stat padder

he has games where he scores alot and post no assists, then you see him in the next game where he scores jackshit, but padd up the reb + asst stats to bring it up to avg stats...

Shit son!!! Let's see you play like Kobe fUCKER! I fucking mothercuking thought SO!!!!!!!!! :madrun

[mavsfan1000]

this guys is nothin more than a stat padder

he has games where he scores alot and post no assists, then you see him in the next game where he scores jackshit, but padd up the reb + asst stats to bring it up to avg stats...
I wouldn't go that far. He's just not as great as advertised. I'm not going to change my opinion on this so it is pointless to continue arguing on this. Kobe had a series of his life against the spurs a few years ago. Shaq allowed him to his damage because of all the attention Shaq took. The same thing with Wade in the finals last year.

[SRJ]

I am not a Kobe Bryant fan. I think the Shaq-Kobe team could have lasted longer than it did, and in my view Kobe was the most responsible part of that breakup (but that's another thread entirely). Kobe has done some baffling things in the past, like the road loss to Sacramento in 2004 when he only shot twice in the entire game, and of course last year's game seven loss to Phoenix when he only shot twice in the second half. He is an egomaniac among egomaniacs, and I think that at times in his career he has demonstrated a contempt for the team concept and a casual attitude about winning basketball games.

That said, it would be incorrect of me not to acknowledge his amazing play of late. I don't know if a player in any sport has played a four game stretch like this.

When Chamberlain dominated the league in a similar way, he and Bill Russell were the only true athletes playing the center position. Judging by the footage I have seen and by the gaudy point totals of the decade, defenses were stiff, stagnant, reactive, doling out a lot less contact on the floor than in today's game.

During Jordan's best scoring days, the defense and athleticism around the league were improved compared with Wilt's era, but still not what we have seen today. At his position Jordan stood alone athletically. He was basically the prototype for the long leapers we have today - in the late eighties, only Clyde Drexler was comparable to Jordan. Most of the other great shooting guards of that time were perimeter players like Walter Davis, Alex English, Dale Ellis, and Jeff Malone - effective complementary players to be sure, but unable to take over games by getting to the rim. Also consider that the Chuck Daly-style defense - fewer possessions on offense (thus keeping the scores lower), lots of switching and other off the ball activity, emphasis on physical play - was pretty much only being used by Daly then - it wasn't until the mid-1990's when this style took hold around the majority of the league.

Kobe surpassing Jordan and Chamberlain, even for four games, under current conditions is nothing short of astonishing. In this stretch, he has managed to integrate his matchless scoring skill into the framework of the team when they need it badly.

If this isn't praiseworthy, you're not a critic of Kobe Bryant; critics are fair people. And it would be patently unfair to continue to bash Kobe for playing the best basketball of his or anyone else's life.

[JamStone]

I am not a Kobe Bryant fan. I think the Shaq-Kobe team could have lasted longer than it did, and in my view Kobe was the most responsible part of that breakup (but that's another thread entirely). Kobe has done some baffling things in the past, like the road loss to Sacramento in 2004 when he only shot twice in the entire game, and of course last year's game seven loss to Phoenix when he only shot twice in the second half. He is an egomaniac among egomaniacs, and I think that at times in his career he has demonstrated a contempt for the team concept and a casual attitude about winning basketball games.

That said, it would be incorrect of me not to acknowledge his amazing play of late. I don't know if a player in any sport has played a four game stretch like this.

When Chamberlain dominated the league in a similar way, he and Bill Russell were the only true athletes playing the center position. Judging by the footage I have seen and by the gaudy point totals of the decade, defenses were stiff, stagnant, reactive, doling out a lot less contact on the floor than in today's game.

During Jordan's best scoring days, the defense and athleticism around the league were improved compared with Wilt's era, but still not what we have seen today. At his position Jordan stood alone athletically. He was basically the prototype for the long leapers we have today - in the late eighties, only Clyde Drexler was comparable to Jordan. Most of the other great shooting guards of that time were perimeter players like Walter Davis, Alex English, Dale Ellis, and Jeff Malone - effective complementary players to be sure, but unable to take over games by getting to the rim. Also consider that the Chuck Daly-style defense - fewer possessions on offense (thus keeping the scores lower), lots of switching and other off the ball activity, emphasis on physical play - was pretty much only being used by Daly then - it wasn't until the mid-1990's when this style took hold around the majority of the league.

Kobe surpassing Jordan and Chamberlain, even for four games, under current conditions is nothing short of astonishing. In this stretch, he has managed to integrate his matchless scoring skill into the framework of the team when they need it badly.

If this isn't praiseworthy, you're not a critic of Kobe Bryant; critics are fair people. And it would be patently unfair to continue to bash Kobe for playing the best basketball of his or anyone else's life.


Extremely well written post. I enjoyed reading that.

[SRJ]

Extremely well written post. I enjoyed reading that.

Thanks! *bows*

[DOMINATOR]

Extremely well written post. I enjoyed reading that.
i agree

[bdictjames]

What pisses me off is that there are still trolls lurking around the Internet still convinced that Kobe is a ballhog.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

:drunk You have no idea about what you are talking about.
Read it again. I wasn't saying his performance wasn't great.

I'm not knocking Kobe and this specific performance, because he was definitely on a ROLL and you WANT to see players take advantage of that. For entertainment value. I was merely highlighting the fact that I thought Kobe should have kept his mouth shut about the stupid "suspension" criticisms.

So then I merely noted that HIS LAST TWO GAMES HE DID LOOK LIKE HE WAS PLAYING FOR HIS INDIVIDUAL GLORY in mind.

It has nothing to do with dissing his skills, and his new record in history.

Nowhere have I said he was "ballhogging for the sake of it." He was hogging the ball technically on Friday. But he's shooting over 50 percent and given the greenlight. So you can't really complain. I even said that 4 in a row was incredible for stamina's sake later on in the post. Nowhere did I say that the record in itself isn't valuable. It is because you don't see players doing it every day. But I don't think I"m wrong in my personal view, in disagreeing with Kobe's reasons. I don't think he should treat his amazing games as a priority, like you would in the sport of Golf, or Tennis.
Now this isn't to you, but just a general statement to some of the comments on here.
Apologists on here, say they haven't started winning until Kobe started going apeshit. But that's bogus, it helps, but it's certainly not REQUIRED of him to force the issue of hogging the offensive load. They just got Lamar and Walton back shortly before they started winning again. With that logic, you can say their record in the first half of the season when they were an over 50 team. 15-7 Required Kobe him to score, 35, 8, 7 because they were winning when he was doing that right?...

Come on, you know the reason for the losses wasn't because Kobe was averaging 30 points and making 10 assists a game. It had more to do with the fact that they were shorthanded. So don't try to use the card, "HE NEEDS TO BE SCORING 60 points because they were losing seven in a row!" I'll admit that these recent wins had much to do with Kobe going nuts. At the same time, don't say stupid things like Kobe HAS to do this or THEY LOSE.
If he did, then he would have done it when Lamar and Luke were out, it'd make a lot more sense.


Kobe didn't start scoring 60 because he felt he had to DO this, he just went NUTS and hit a good week because he decided to step up his play and some of his stronger teammates made it that much easier for him to get in teh zone! Don't try to justify his recent 60 point outbursts as justification for the Lakers being better off with Kobe taking more of the offensive load and being the only reason why they're winning again. Otherwise Kobe should have been shouldering Lamar and Waltons offensive output, to prevent them from that 7 game skid in the first place.

[jaespur21]

not a kobe fan but hes good.....putting 50 up is impressive. best i could do in high school was 25 and that was against southside

[sabar]

Kobe is the best player in this league.
Ball hogging is when you have say... Latrell Sprewell struggling to shoot 40% for a season chucking up shots.

[jacobdrj]

As long as Kobe is shooting over 50% from the field, you don't have much room to talk smack.
Word.

[RonMexico]

Purple & Gold is a little bitch. ManuTim_bestofFwiendz, you said it right. Kobe's feat is impressive, but let's put it in perspective: he can throw up 50+ against teams in the playoffs and the Lakers will still lose... book it.

[jaespur21]

probably but Kobe putting up 50 against playoff teams still gives them a punchers chance......PHX barely survived them in the playoffs last year and so far this year and even last season the lakers have played the spurs tough

[1Parker1]

If most players took that many shots.........they would get 50-60pts every night. Just look at the box scores of all games, which I just did. There were lots of players shooting 50% from the field but only taking half as many shots as Kobe.

Its all bullshit......everyone just sees the scoring, but not how many shots he took. Hell, he took other peoples shots away from them.


You guys are crazy. Do you see the kinds of shots Kobe takes? He has like triple defenders on him sometimes and still manages to shoot the ball into the basket with crazy fadaways or from about 3 feet beyond the 3 point line. Do any of you understand hte kind of physical and mental shape you have to be in to do that in a span of 48 minutes? And he barely gets any rest.

Shit, who's he going to pass the ball to instead? Smush Parker. You can't argue with a guy scoring over 200+ points in 4 games in 53% shooting.


Damn, maybe I should change my name it 1Kobe1. The more people who hate on his game, the more I like the guy! :lol

[1Parker1]

The whole "The only thing that matters is championships" argument is so fucking played out and cliche. Can't you people think of your own catch lines rather than just regurgitating what some other clown you saw on TV said?

Championships are important. We get it. I'm sure most players have the dream to win a championship, but only one team wins a year. Winning championships aren't the only reason people like basketball -- people also like basketball because it's fun sport to play and watch. Spectacular team performances are fun to see. Witness individual accomplishments are fun to see as well. Watching an player so skilled at his sport is amazing, especially when that player's team is winning as well.

If this shit doesn't impress you, do yourself a favor and turn off your TV until June.



:tu :tu I don't understand how a basketball fan cannot find it entertaining to watch this.

[Skip Bayless]

Im not convinced. this streak means nothing to me, because its all about the rings. he has yet to win one without Shaq so who should care about a meaningless streak like this? he is NOT the next Jordan, he is not a champion, and he will never be half the man MJ was both on and off the court

[1Parker1]

No, you're wrong. Almost everytime Kobe goes off, the Lakers win. That validates his strategy, especially considering they got nothing outside of Odom and Walton. Bynum has shown some promise, but that's about it. Even Tex Winter, consummate team guy that he is, admits Kobe scoring at will represents their best chance to win.

Kobe is simply the most complete offensive player in the game today, and certainly among the best of alltime. I would say he's pretty much approaching Jordan territory if he hasn't caught up to him already. Kobe is the only guy routinely trapped and double-teamed 35 feet out. He can drive as well as Wade, AI or Vince, but his ability to hit a contested 35 footer means opposing defenses have to respect his perimeter shooting almost as soon as he crosses the midcourt line. All this "makes his teammates better" shit is just a mirage and overblown. The Lakers had no business being in a seventh game against Phoenix, but Kobe got them there by out-Nashing Nash. Kobe has shown he can be a creator, it's just a matter of whether or not his teammates are competent enough to execute. When they're not, Kobe has to take matters into his own hands. It's as simple as that.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that it's probably not easy for those guys to play with Kobe, and it's not easy for Kobe to play with guys that are significantly less talented than him. If you've ever watched a Jason Kidd team, one thing you'll notice is that Kidd could easily average 18-22 assists per game instead of the 11 that he gets if his teammates had the same kind of court vision that he does. He sees things way before they develop and sometimes his teammates aren't always in the right spot to receive a pass because they don't have that sixth sense on the court that Kidd does. I think it's kinda like that now for Kobe. It wasn't a problem when he had Shaq down low along with excellent role players.


:wow Wow, a smart and logical post by a Mavericks fan? I truly applaud you! I wish we had more Mavs posters like you. :clap

[1Parker1]

Purple & Gold is a little bitch. ManuTim_bestofFwiendz, you said it right. Kobe's feat is impressive, but let's put it in perspective: he can throw up 50+ against teams in the playoffs and the Lakers will still lose... book it.

:rolleyes He may not have to in the playoffs. If you'd bother watching any basketball other than your "Favorite team's" you'd realize that the Lakers are currently hampered with injuries and are only now coming from from them. Odom, Walton, Kwame Brown...all three starters missed significant amounts of time this season. It take s a while for players to get back in rythmn. Lakers were on a 7 game losing streak and pretty much close to getting out of playoff contention. In that streak Kobe the "non-ball hog" (:rolleyes) was averaging a mere 30 points and 5.8 assists. In fact in their loss against the Nuggets.......Kobe had 30 points, 9 assists, and 6 rebounds...and that ended up being a blowout loss.

If his teammates get back to learning how to shoot the ball, he won't have to score 50+ points, but the fact that he can drop that many points on you in any given game...hell maybe in any given quarter, makes him dangerous. Kobe is probably the only player in the league that could probably win a game all by himself. So yea, if the Spurs are playing the Lakers...I'd be pretty scared of them for that simple fact alone.

[1Parker1]

Im not convinced. this streak means nothing to me, because its all about the rings. he has yet to win one without Shaq so who should care about a meaningless streak like this? he is NOT the next Jordan, he is not a champion, and he will never be half the man MJ was both on and off the court

With that logic, the Mavs current win streak means nothing to me because its all about the rings, and they have yet to win a single championship...period.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

Im not convinced. this streak means nothing to me, because its all about the rings. he has yet to win one without Shaq so who should care about a meaningless streak like this? he is NOT the next Jordan, he is not a champion, and he will never be half the man MJ was both on and off the court

:lol :lol

i have a feeling this really is Skip BAyless

[lebomb]

Ive come back in the NEXT day and noone has answered my question on this subject............

Noone thinks Mcgrady, Carter, Wade, Lebron, Arenas, Ginobilli, or Timmy D could put together a string of 4 games of over 50 in a row if they were to receive 30-40 touches in said games??? I think they could.

Everyone keeps pointing out a SINGLE 30-40 touch game and how many points the player had......BUT!!!! Kobe got to put up that many shots in 4 consecutive games!!!!

Hell, I think he is allowed to put up that many shots all season period.....GREEN LIGHT!!!

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Noone thinks Mcgrady, Carter, Wade, Lebron, Arenas, Ginobilli, or Timmy D could put together a string of 4 games of over 50 in a row if they were to receive 30-40 touches in said games??? I think they could.

Kobe got to put up that many shots in 4 consecutive games!!!!




No, and one thing you're forgetting is fatigue.

[lebomb]

No, and one thing you're forgetting is fatigue.

LOL, these guys are athletes.....best of the best.....fatigue??? :rolleyes

I looked at some of Kobes previous games before the unmitigated "green light" he was given........his numbers were the same as everyone elses for shot attempts......15-22 shot attempts produced around 25-30pt games......add another 15-20 attemps and you are in the 50pt range.

I just cant believe noone else sees this............... :depressed

[samikeyp]

Hey...let Kobe keep doing this....he's on my fantasy team. :)

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Why wasn't Carmelo in the 50 point range when he was averaging 27 shots/game in the 10 games prior to being suspended?

He cracked 40 one time(42).

Sorry about the fatigue crack, I forgot they all play 48 minutes/night and shooting the ball 30 times/game while being doubled is refreshing.

My bad.

[lebomb]

Why wasn't Carmelo in the 50 point range when he was averaging 27 shots/game in the 10 games prior to being suspended?

He cracked 40 one time(42).

Sorry about the fatigue crack, I forgot they all play 48 minutes/night and shooting the ball 30 times/game while being doubled is refreshing.

My bad.

Meh.....thats Melo. Let Arenas get that many touches or Ginobilli or Timmy.

:wakeup

[StylisticS]

Meh.....thats Melo. Let Arenas get that many touches or Ginobilli or Timmy.

:wakeup

What do you mean, that's Melo? He's just as good of a scorer as Arenas or Ginoboli. Also, they already have and they still couldn't do what Kobe is doing in consecutive games. Give the man props. It seems like there is no pleasing some people when it comes to Kobe. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. His scoring was down and his assists were up. He was being more of a team player than most people realize and all that got them was 32-32 record and a 7 game losing streak. He is putting tha team on his back and scoring 50 points per game. I guess people that really dislike Kobe can always find something negative against him.

[Extra Stout]

Anybody knocking Kobe's performance lately is nothing but a hater. Scoring at that level of efficiency with such a high volume of shots is very difficult. Shooting over 50% when consistently double- and triple-teamed on the perimeter is exceptional.

And he started doing it at a time when the Lakers were losing uncompetitively night in and night out, and now they are winning more or less singlehandedly because of him.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Meh.....thats Melo. Let Arenas get that many touches or Ginobilli or Timmy.

:wakeup


Arenas did get that many touches after he scored 60. The next night he scored 23 on 30 shot attempts. He's wildly inconsistent. Check his shooting percentages in the games after he drops 40+ for proof.

TMac? He averaged 30 shots per in 4 out of 5 nights around the New Year. He averaged 36 in those games. He doesn't get to the line enough.

TD? He isn't a good enough FT shooter to get 50 consistently and he doesn't have the luxury of the 3.

[Purple & Gold]

Read it again. I wasn't saying his performance wasn't great.

I'm not knocking Kobe and this specific performance, because he was definitely on a ROLL and you WANT to see players take advantage of that. For entertainment value. I was merely highlighting the fact that I thought Kobe should have kept his mouth shut about the stupid "suspension" criticisms.

So then I merely noted that HIS LAST TWO GAMES HE DID LOOK LIKE HE WAS PLAYING FOR HIS INDIVIDUAL GLORY in mind.

It has nothing to do with dissing his skills, and his new record in history.

Nowhere have I said he was "ballhogging for the sake of it." He was hogging the ball technically on Friday. But he's shooting over 50 percent and given the greenlight. So you can't really complain. I even said that 4 in a row was incredible for stamina's sake later on in the post. Nowhere did I say that the record in itself isn't valuable. It is because you don't see players doing it every day. But I don't think I"m wrong in my personal view, in disagreeing with Kobe's reasons. I don't think he should treat his amazing games as a priority, like you would in the sport of Golf, or Tennis.
Now this isn't to you, but just a general statement to some of the comments on here.
Apologists on here, say they haven't started winning until Kobe started going apeshit. But that's bogus, it helps, but it's certainly not REQUIRED of him to force the issue of hogging the offensive load. They just got Lamar and Walton back shortly before they started winning again. With that logic, you can say their record in the first half of the season when they were an over 50 team. 15-7 Required Kobe him to score, 35, 8, 7 because they were winning when he was doing that right?...

Come on, you know the reason for the losses wasn't because Kobe was averaging 30 points and making 10 assists a game. It had more to do with the fact that they were shorthanded. So don't try to use the card, "HE NEEDS TO BE SCORING 60 points because they were losing seven in a row!" I'll admit that these recent wins had much to do with Kobe going nuts. At the same time, don't say stupid things like Kobe HAS to do this or THEY LOSE.
If he did, then he would have done it when Lamar and Luke were out, it'd make a lot more sense.


Kobe didn't start scoring 60 because he felt he had to DO this, he just went NUTS and hit a good week because he decided to step up his play and some of his stronger teammates made it that much easier for him to get in teh zone! Don't try to justify his recent 60 point outbursts as justification for the Lakers being better off with Kobe taking more of the offensive load and being the only reason why they're winning again. Otherwise Kobe should have been shouldering Lamar and Waltons offensive output, to prevent them from that 7 game skid in the first place.
What makes me laugh is how you and your buddy Ron all know the inner workings of basketball players and what is the real motive behind their actions. It's like you guys have some sort of sixth sense. Maybe some type of Spidy Sense??

So let's see you're knocking Kobe because he is hogging the offensive load and not passing the ball more to Lamar and Luke. Well first off they are not really great scorers. Lamar could get 20 anytime he wants, but he is far less effective than Kobe when he does. Luke can score, but he's just not a scorer. They are both playmakers; they make the proper pass when they need to, they set up the offense, they allow Kobe to be in position to score. (Not to mention that Lamar is by far our best rebounder and that's one of the main things we need from him right now.) We all know players need time to get back from injuries, this is Kobe's way of letting them get back in the game slowly. We're getting W's it's working.

I laugh at how you consider him playing out of the context of a team game. Watch the Lakers play more often and you would understand that he is scoring within the context of the team. Does he hog the ball? Yes, he does. Is he not playing team basketball? No, he is playing team basketball. Watch them play more often.

Another thing that you fail to recognize is that with Lamar and Luke back they allow Kobe to score 50 and 60 points. Without them it's so much harder to score at that level. They make the proper passes to him and do all the dirty work so that he doesn't have to. He can now concentrate on scoring instead of passing and rebounding. It's a win win everybody is playing to their strengths.

[Purple & Gold]

Purple & Gold is a little bitch. ManuTim_bestofFwiendz, you said it right. Kobe's feat is impressive, but let's put it in perspective: he can throw up 50+ against teams in the playoffs and the Lakers will still lose... book it.
HaHa Ron are you still crying about the Lakers and Kobe. After your little meltdown, I thought you would take some time to look in the mirror and reflect on you thoughts about the Laker Franchise. Your posts about the mental makeup of the Lakers are classic. I'm still wondering how you get these great X-Men like powers. Born as a mutant?? Scientific experiment gone wrong?? A Magical Ring?? I'm dying to know...

And book this Ron the Lakers will win another ring before the Suns win their first one.

[DarrinS]

Out of curiosity, what's the record for elbows thrown in a single season?


Will Kobe join this elite list of

Karl Malone
Bill Lambier
Charles Oakley

:fro

[JamStone]

Randy Machoman Savage?

[RonMexico]

HaHa Ron are you still crying about the Lakers and Kobe. After your little meltdown, I thought you would take some time to look in the mirror and reflect on you thoughts about the Laker Franchise. Your posts about the mental makeup of the Lakers are classic. I'm still wondering how you get these great X-Men like powers. Born as a mutant?? Scientific experiment gone wrong?? A Magical Ring?? I'm dying to know...

And book this Ron the Lakers will win another ring before the Suns win their first one.

Nobody is crying here. I'm just going off years of experience... Suns have let Kobe put up a ton of points on them and killed the Lakers every time. It's when Kobe plays a more complete game and the other players like Odom, Walton, and Kwame Brown step up that the Suns have difficulty with the Lakers. Hmmmm... I wonder why Phil Jackson imposed this strategy during the playoff last year? Do you think he might have had some idea about the mental makeup of his own team?

Another idiotic post from the board's resident douche.

[Purple & Gold]

Nobody is crying here. I'm just going off years of experience... Suns have let Kobe put up a ton of points on them and killed the Lakers every time. It's when Kobe plays a more complete game and the other players like Odom, Walton, and Kwame Brown step up that the Suns have difficulty with the Lakers. Hmmmm... I wonder why Phil Jackson imposed this strategy during the playoff last year? Do you think he might have had some idea about the mental makeup of his own team?

Another idiotic post from the board's resident douche.
Once again I laugh at you Ron. You make it seem like you bring some sort of great insight to this board. Everybody knows that he can't win a title by himself, this is not some type of great revelation. You are stating nothing but the most obvious of things. But since I know how much you like to pat yourself on the back, I'm sure you think you're educating everybody here on SpursTalk and all the Laker fans in particular.

The fact is the Lakers can win in the playoffs if Kobe puts up 50+. But it's very unlikely and will probably not happen. It means Kobe has to play a perfect game and if he does have a bad shooting night they are sunk. The best way for the Lakers is to have a well balanced team. Everybody knows this Ron, you are not some type of soothsayer.

You better hope the Lakers don't meet the Suns in the playoffs because the Lakeshow will pound it inside every chance they get. You guys are soft in the middle and the Lakers will expose it again.

And once again Ron book this, the Lakers will win another title before the Suns win their first one. :elephant

[Purple & Gold]

And BTW Ron, I'm still wondering where you got your X-Men like powers??

[Purple & Gold]

Meh.....thats Melo. Let Arenas get that many touches or Ginobilli or Timmy.

:wakeup
It's a good thing there are other Spurs fans on this board that represent their team better and counter your stupidity.

[Purple & Gold]

Ive come back in the NEXT day and noone has answered my question on this subject............

Noone thinks Mcgrady, Carter, Wade, Lebron, Arenas, Ginobilli, or Timmy D could put together a string of 4 games of over 50 in a row if they were to receive 30-40 touches in said games???
No, nobody thinks they can.

[lebomb]

I bet all of Kobe's teammates are like......"fuckin ball hog"


They wont say it though for fear of being blackballed by Phil.......wait till anyone of them leaves to another team.

Also, WHO would want to go play along side Kobe with him teein off 30-40 shots a night? Fuck that........other players want to shoot too.

If multiple consecutive games of 30-40 shots by ONE player doesnt seem like ball hoggin to you......you are dumb. Thats all there is to it. Dumb.

[RonMexico]

Ok, I'll book it - the Lakers are gonna win a title this year. Thanks Purple & Gold... you've made my sports betting so much easier.

Purple & Gold: "Kobe can hog the ball and score 50+ and the Lakers will win all the time."

Ron: "Kobe can score all he wants, but the Lakers need a complete game from him and the team for them to advance in the playoffs."

Purple & Gold: "Jesus Christ, Ron, everyone knows the Lakers need a team effort out there... gosh!"

Ron: "You're a fucking retard - thanks for changing your argument."

[pussyface]

as an impartial observor, i'd tip purpleandgold as the winner of this here argument.
his argument is bolstered by the fact that he is not a blind partisan for his chosen team while ronnymex is a typical and obvious example of such a person.

[Purple & Gold]

Ok, I'll book it - the Lakers are gonna win a title this year. Thanks Purple & Gold... you've made my sports betting so much easier.

Purple & Gold: "Kobe can hog the ball and score 50+ and the Lakers will win all the time."

Ron: "Kobe can score all he wants, but the Lakers need a complete game from him and the team for them to advance in the playoffs."

Purple & Gold: "Jesus Christ, Ron, everyone knows the Lakers need a team effort out there... gosh!"

Ron: "You're a fucking retard - thanks for changing your argument."
Damn Ron how stupid are you? I said the Lakers will win another one before the Suns win their first one. Book that.

Then again Ron you were talking about what was happening during this week and then you're the one that changes it to the playoffs, not me. So I went from talking about this week to talking about the playoffs, because you changed the subject. I know you have a problem with reading comprehension, but WTF. :wtf

You might as well just keep your mouth shut because you look like a total fucking idiot.

Ohhh and I'm still wondering how you got your keen powers of insight into basketball players minds. I'm sure that's what makes your sports betting so easy. :drunk

[Purple & Gold]

as an impartial observor, i'd tip purpleandgold as the winner of this here argument.
his argument is bolstered by the fact that he is not a blind partisan for his chosen team while ronnymex is a typical and obvious example of such a person.
I call em like I see em, and Ron is about as stupid as they come. I would put him up there, either at the top or damn right near the top, with the other great idiots of this site.

[Purple & Gold]

I bet all of Kobe's teammates are like......"fuckin ball hog"


They wont say it though for fear of being blackballed by Phil.......wait till anyone of them leaves to another team.

Also, WHO would want to go play along side Kobe with him teein off 30-40 shots a night? Fuck that........other players want to shoot too.

If multiple consecutive games of 30-40 shots by ONE player doesnt seem like ball hoggin to you......you are dumb. Thats all there is to it. Dumb.
I'm beginning to think that you and Ron are the same person. I mean what are the odds of two people being so fucking stupid and on the internet at the same time. It can't be very high, so I'm guessing you're just a Ron troll.

[jbspurs]

If most players took that many shots.........they would get 50-60pts every night. Just look at the box scores of all games, which I just did. There were lots of players shooting 50% from the field but only taking half as many shots as Kobe.
Its all bullshit......everyone just sees the scoring, but not how many shots he took. Hell, he took other peoples shots away from them.


Tell me is 1 out of 1 shooting better than 9 out 10 shooting?

[lebomb]

Yall obviously dont know basketball..............No ONE player can win a team a championship period.......Jordan didnt even win one till he had some help and didnt have to score 50-60 fuckin ball hoggin points to do it.

Soooooo, get on Kobes nuttsack and feel wonderful about his weak ass feat of taking 40shots in a game. :rolleyes

Shaq got it right.......he left for a team where the star Wade scores alot of points, but gets his teammates involved in the game.

FUCK the Lakers.....they arent going to win shit. Kobe and his ballhoggin points is all they have to hang on to.

[TheNextGen]

Ive come back in the NEXT day and noone has answered my question on this subject............

Noone thinks Mcgrady, Carter, Wade, Lebron, Arenas, Ginobilli, or Timmy D could put together a string of 4 games of over 50 in a row if they were to receive 30-40 touches in said games??? I think they could.

Everyone keeps pointing out a SINGLE 30-40 touch game and how many points the player had......BUT!!!! Kobe got to put up that many shots in 4 consecutive games!!!!

Hell, I think he is allowed to put up that many shots all season period.....GREEN LIGHT!!!

Ill answer this question. I dont think any of them can do 4 games of 50+ in a row. You have to consider that they need to try to make these crazy shots with double teams and triple teams and also knowing that the opponent is trying to prevent them from scoring that much. Only Kobe can do this imo.

[lordswing]

Yall obviously dont know basketball..............No ONE player can win a team a championship period.......Jordan didnt even win one till he had some help and didnt have to score 50-60 fuckin ball hoggin points to do it.

Soooooo, get on Kobes nuttsack and feel wonderful about his weak ass feat of taking 40shots in a game. :rolleyes

Shaq got it right.......he left for a team where the star Wade scores alot of points, but gets his teammates involved in the game.

FUCK the Lakers.....they arent going to win shit. Kobe and his ballhoggin points is all they have to hang on to.

From what I've read, nobody's ever claimed Kobe will win a championship by himself. The furthest anyone has gone is to say that the Lakers will win one before the Suns, note the difference?? (there is one)

The discussion is on how impressive Kobe's recent streak is, and coincidentally it occurs when the Lakers have again begun to win. Now, before more assumptions are made, this does not mean Kobe has to score 50+ in order for the Lakers to win, but they have a better chance since the other players on the team still need to get in a groove.



I bet all of Kobe's teammates are like......"fuckin ball hog"


They wont say it though for fear of being blackballed by Phil.......wait till anyone of them leaves to another team.

Also, WHO would want to go play along side Kobe with him teein off 30-40 shots a night? Fuck that........other players want to shoot too.

If multiple consecutive games of 30-40 shots by ONE player doesnt seem like ball hoggin to you......you are dumb. Thats all there is to it. Dumb.

Again, the Lakers best chances at winning a game involve Kobe shouldering most of the scoring. I'd call it downright selfish for any of the Lakers to shoot a contest shot who's name isn't Kobe right now. When you're nailing 50% from the perimeter, you're doing something good, and you keep going to that guy till he cools off. The minute he starts chucking 30+shots while shooting at a 40% clip, I'll jump on the ball-hog bandwagon with you ok??

[Purple & Gold]

Yall obviously dont know basketball..............No ONE player can win a team a championship period.......Jordan didnt even win one till he had some help and didnt have to score 50-60 fuckin ball hoggin points to do it.

Soooooo, get on Kobes nuttsack and feel wonderful about his weak ass feat of taking 40shots in a game. :rolleyes

Shaq got it right.......he left for a team where the star Wade scores alot of points, but gets his teammates involved in the game.

FUCK the Lakers.....they arent going to win shit. Kobe and his ballhoggin points is all they have to hang on to.
I was right he is a Ron troll.

[TheNextGen]

Only 2 minutes into the game and Mr Bryant is already 4 for 4 with 9 points.

[cornbread]

2 and a half minutes left in the first quarter and he already has 17 points.

[TheNextGen]

sheesh...kobe shoots..they lead by 19. Kobe defers to teamates...lakers up by 4 in the half.

[itzsoweezee]

sheesh...kobe shoots..they lead by 19. Kobe defers to teams...lakers up by 4 in the half.
has nothing to do w/ the rest of the team shooting. the rest of teh team is actually shooting better than kobe. the reason the lakers' lead is down to four is because the lakers are just as bad on defense as the warriors are.

[mavsfan1000]

has nothing to do w/ the rest of the team shooting. the rest of teh team is actually shooting better than kobe. the reason the lakers' lead is down to four is because the lakers are just as bad on defense as the warriors are.
The warriors offense is ridiculous in a good way. They got so many athletes. They are like the Suns on that side of the floor. Maybe even quicker. Their defense is pathetic though as they play very small.

[mardigan]

Yall obviously dont know basketball..............No ONE player can win a team a championship period.......Jordan didnt even win one till he had some help and didnt have to score 50-60 fuckin ball hoggin points to do it.

Soooooo, get on Kobes nuttsack and feel wonderful about his weak ass feat of taking 40shots in a game. :rolleyes

Shaq got it right.......he left for a team where the star Wade scores alot of points, but gets his teammates involved in the game.

FUCK the Lakers.....they arent going to win shit. Kobe and his ballhoggin points is all they have to hang on to.

No, you obviously dont know anything about basketball. Kobe averages more assists than Dirk, Manu,Bibby, Terry , Ridnour, and the same amount as Tony, yet those guys all get their teamates involved and Kobe doesnt? You are truly the biggest, stupidest homer to ever grace this board. You are a disgrace to Spur fans, and to all basketball fans in general.

[RonMexico]

as an impartial observor, i'd tip purpleandgold as the winner of this here argument.
his argument is bolstered by the fact that he is not a blind partisan for his chosen team while ronnymex is a typical and obvious example of such a person.

Coming from the most partial observer on this board, I appreciate you letting me in your club.

Pussyface has never been and will never be impartial. Purple & Gold is as partial as they come... in fact, he's gone as far to admonish the front office of a team that is ahead of his in the Western Conference (Rockets), despite the fact that both of their best players have missed a substantial amount of time. I'm in no way a blind partisan to my team because (a) I'll go ahead and say they played like lazy shits today and thought they could coast out of Arco with a win, and (b) I defended Rockets fans and their front office from the ignorance of P&G who thinks Bynum and Brown are the next twin towers of the league, while ripping on a player (T-Mac) who is less selfish than his "superstar" and also tearing apart one of the best role players in the league (Battier). P&G also went so far to say that Rudy Gay would be an "all-star" (about a 25% chance of that happening right now... and I'm being generous) while Shane Battier will never amount to anything (except I do recall Shane is an Olympian, which is a little more venerable than an all-star in my mind).

Pussyface, if Battier played in Dallas, you would be fellating him as much as possible and calling for his all-star recognition in the same vein as Josh Howard's. Secondly, P&G still has completely misjudged this argument (again) by claiming that I brought playoffs into the picture without reason. I simply said that Kobe would go about 1-3 in the PO's to a good team if he scored 50+ each game because it's the supporting cast that makes the Lakers good.

Somehow, this turned him into a Suns-bashing maniac, even though the Suns took the season series 3-1 against LA last year by allowing Kobe to avg. almost 40+ against them. Why else would Phil Jackson change the strategy for the playoffs against the Suns, thus enabliing the Lakers jumped out to a 3-1 lead? Then, as soon as their backs were against the wall (Game 6), Kobe goes off for his highest scoring game of the series and the Lakers (*gasp*) lose. Are you saying your beloved coach is an idiot, because he and I basically said the same thing: Kobe can light up the Suns all he wants, but Phoenix will win the series if he does.

Either way, the Lakers will have to go through Phoenix to win their next title, so I look forward to those series as they come.

[RonMexico]

No, you obviously dont know anything about basketball. Kobe averages more assists than Dirk, Manu,Bibby, Terry , Ridnour, and the same amount as Tony, yet those guys all get their teamates involved and Kobe doesnt? You are truly the biggest, stupidest homer to ever grace this board. You are a disgrace to Spur fans, and to all basketball fans in general.

I agree with you on some points, Mardigan, but you have to realize that you're comparing Kobe to a lot of "me-first" players on that list and that's a little unfair (well, Ridnour does play that much anymore and the Sonics suck, so he's kind of irrelevant). Kobe probably averages more assists because he has the ball in his hands more often and he has tried to be a facilitator throughout the year. This past week, however, I doubt his assist totals reached his season average in any of those games.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

yeah agree, I think the Manu, Parker assist comparisons are a bit sketchy when trying to make a point that Kobe is "less" --actually, I don't know what the point is by that comparison..
. (By logic is that statement saying Parker and Manu are more selfish of players because they can't get up to 7 dimes a game?) because Spurs aren't exactly a high assist ratio team. If you're going to compare assists you have to do it with a team where the SG is the primary ballhandler with similar offenses, i.e. Wade and Lebron.

as for purple and gold's little arguments for Kobe scoring 50, 60 for the benefit of the team. bah!
I don't think either of us were being black and white about Kobe's individual smugness. And he's just not getting that.

And I don't think Pussyface has made much cred for himself as this "impartial" observer. :lol So whatever.

[jbspurs]

No, you obviously dont know anything about basketball. Kobe averages more assists than Dirk, Manu,Bibby, Terry , Ridnour, and the same amount as Tony, yet those guys all get their teamates involved and Kobe doesnt? You are truly the biggest, stupidest homer to ever grace this board. You are a disgrace to Spur fans, and to all basketball fans in general.

WELL SAID... THANK YOU!

[mardigan]

I agree with you on some points, Mardigan, but you have to realize that you're comparing Kobe to a lot of "me-first" players on that list and that's a little unfair (well, Ridnour does play that much anymore and the Sonics suck, so he's kind of irrelevant). Kobe probably averages more assists because he has the ball in his hands more often and he has tried to be a facilitator throughout the year. This past week, however, I doubt his assist totals reached his season average in any of those games.
It didnt, my only point was that you never here guys like Dirk or Terry or Tony described as ball hogs, but meanwhile a guy that averages more assists for the season is. Granted, he hasnt passed much during this streak, but the fact that they have won all 4 games (5 if you count tonight, 43 points) without him passing shouldnt be a slap against him. When he did have teamates he did pass, as his over 5 assists per game average showed though the championship seasons. But at what cost do you try to involve your teamates when they cant get the job done? Koobe is a smart player that will do what he thinks needs to be done to win the game, either by scoring, passing, or playing d. I am by no means a Kobe fan, but I cant take away from how good he is. And by being a basketball fan, he makes me like him more every game I see him play. All I know is, if he was on the team any of us rooted for, he would probably be our favorite player

[Purple & Gold]

:blah :blah :blah :blah :blah
:lmao You don't even know what you're saying anymore. Do you even look at what you type before you hit submit?? The conversation went from talking about this week to talking about the playoffs. I didn't realize that a team can't change a strategy in a playoff atmosphere and against better teams. :rolleyes I mean if the Lakers are allowed to adjust it would just kill your argument. :oops

You're such a fool, you have no clue of what's going on. You're ass is still hurt because I consider it a bad idea to build around Yao and T-Mac instead of just Yao. He's the second best player in the league and there is no reason why the Rockets should trade a lottery pick for a defensive roll player with only a mediocre offense. Especially when the team has multiple holes. There is injury questions with McGrady. Get it?? That's why I wouldn't build around him. I would build my Franchise thinking there is a good chance he will be injured again. Get it?? And you and your Shane Battier is an Olympian. :lmao Like if that means shit. He fits a role on that team. Get it??

As for the future of the Lakers. Kwame plays a very small role in it. Next year is his contract year, if he doesn't start showing anything else soon he's out or he gets signed at a discount price. Bynum and Kobe are the ones that will keep your precious Suns from doing anything. Not to mention what Lamar brings. You already know he completely owns Marion. You also better hope no star decides to opt out and sign with the Lakeshow. That will mean the death of your precious Suns.

Face it, you bring no insight to this board other than what you believe are the inner thoughts of basketball players. Something you have no clue about. Unless you know them personally or developed some type of super power, STFU. Stick to commenting on the Suns and how their style of basketball is the new Showtime and that they will win 5 titles in the next decade.

[Purple & Gold]

as for purple and gold's little arguments for Kobe scoring 50, 60 for the benefit of the team. bah!
I don't think either of us were being black and white about Kobe's individual smugness. And he's just not getting that.
So now the truth comes out. You don't like Kobe because he's smug. Not because he's a selfish, playing only for myself, could care less about the team player. I mean that's what you were saying before. You acted like you and Ron go to Kobe's house all the time and shoot the shit.

I for one find it very difficult to believe that Kobe is that selfish of a player. I mean he let Phil coach him again after he wrote a book about him, knowing that it's best for the team. That doesn't sound selfish at all. As for the whole deal with Shaq, let me also add that Shaq was the adult in the situation so IMO he deserves a lot of the blame. He was the adult he should have acted like an adult. So next time don't pretend like you really know what's going on with Kobe's true motives. You and Ron just sound like your run-of-the-mill Haters.

[Purple & Gold]

I hope all the Haters saw the Laker game and saw how Kobe adjusts when he knows he's not on and the defense starts keying on him. He passes the ball and stays within the offense. He also finds other things to bring to the game like rebounding and excellent defense on Baron Davis. Does he hog the ball? Oh yeah he does, like he rightfully should.

[RonMexico]

"It went from talking about this week to talking about the playoffs." You seem to forget how you've taken this week to mean the Lakers are about to win an incredible amount of titles and then I just put it in a little perspective for you. I guess this 5-game win streak means the Lakers are close to winning the Pacific Division right? Oh, wait... I forgot... now you're going to trot out your "so many of our [role] players were injured this year, so our record sucks" bullshit.

Make up your mind... is your team good because of Kobe or because of the other guys? (I've always said Lamar Odom is the most integral part of your team.) Funny how I'm called partisan when you only like "role players" if they're wearing Purple & Gold, but not if they're called Shane or have spots on the Olympic team. When Kobe joins the team, I hope you scoff at him representing his country, too. Be sure to call me when Rudy Gay gets an invite, as well.

[lebomb]

LMMFAO!!!!!! They were clowning Kobes 50pt game streak on the Mike and Mike show this morning......They said Kobe scored 270pts over the last 6 games, but had only 11 assists!!!! :(

They totally agreed with me on the ball hoggin........

[lebomb]

No, you obviously dont know anything about basketball. Kobe averages more assists than Dirk, Manu,Bibby, Terry , Ridnour, and the same amount as Tony, yet those guys all get their teamates involved and Kobe doesnt? You are truly the biggest, stupidest homer to ever grace this board. You are a disgrace to Spur fans, and to all basketball fans in general.

STFU!!!!!.......did you see my post above??? Even the sports analyst think what Kobe did was a joke. They said he hogged the ball. Alot of players can score that much if they only had 11assist in 6 games. Basically he took every fucking shot.

[ambchang]

I would like to see a player score 50 points on 12 shots too.
Everybody who scores over 50 points with more than 12 shots is a ballhog.
BTW, Duncan scored his career high 53 points on 28 shots in a loss to Dallas, freaking ballhog.

[Medvedenko]

I'm glad the streak is over....now they can get back to playing more team ball and Kobe can pick his spots. I felt he forced the issue a few times last night...regardless they won and it was due to his timely 3's in the 4th that helped get over the hump. Still, if he hit a few chippies and actually got a foul call on a few of his jump shots, we'd be at this again for another 100 posts.

[TheNextGen]

STFU!!!!!.......did you see my post above??? Even the sports analyst think what Kobe did was a joke. They said he hogged the ball. Alot of players can score that much if they only had 11assist in 6 games. Basically he took every fucking shot.

You actually think that other players can make those kind of shots with 2-3 defenders on them? :dramaquee

[lebomb]

You actually think that other players can make those kind of shots with 2-3 defenders on them? :dramaquee


I think ALL the top players could do it. Mcgrady, Arenas, Michael Redd, Dirk, Amare, Lebron........all of them. Especially if they only pass the ball 11 times in 6 games. Thats not even 2 passes a game!!!!!! :wtf

[Kori Ellis]

I think ALL the top players could do it. Mcgrady, Arenas, Michael Redd, Dirk, Amare, Lebron........all of them. Especially if they only pass the ball 11 times in 6 games. Thats not even 2 passes a game!!!!!! :wtf

It was 11 assists in five games. And 11 assists doesn't mean only 11 passes.

Are you this stupid?

[Medvedenko]

Lebomb...go back to where you came from. You're parroting Mike and Mike...damn....get your own opinion...or do you like being the contrarian. Regardless, like I said in my posts previously, in the last 40+ years he's the only one to do it...with all of the games and ballhogging and superstar plays in the 80's when high scores and possesions were plentiful, no one has done what Kobe has done...and you still hate. How many stats do you need to see regarding the other players if given a chance they could score 50...you've been owned this entire thread and now you start on his assists...damn you're weak sauce.

[lebomb]

Lebomb...go back to where you came from. You're parroting Mike and Mike...damn....get your own opinion...or do you like being the contrarian. Regardless, like I said in my posts previously, in the last 40+ years he's the only one to do it...with all of the games and ballhogging and superstar plays in the 80's when high scores and possesions were plentiful, no one has done what Kobe has done...and you still hate. How many stats do you need to see regarding the other players if given a chance they could score 50...you've been owned this entire thread and now you start on his assists...damn you're weak sauce.


Hey, whatever, I can voice my opinion. Its obvious Im not the only one that thinks Kobe played by himself to get those points. You havent seen it done before, because no other player kept the ball to himself for 6 straight games.

So KMA. :toast

[lebomb]

Noone can do what Kobe does...........

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/23/AR2006122300783.html

[Kori Ellis]

His TEAM had lost seven straight games. And he went on a personal mission (because of the losing streak and because he was pissed off at the league because of the suspensions) to get them winning.

He did that, by carrying the team on his back and shooting a lot and shooting well (50%+) in five games straight.

It's not the formula for success over a long season because eventually he'll have really off nights and because it doesn't breed team basketball which is necessary in a 7 game series in the postseason.

But his mission did what was right for the TEAM right now and that was get them back on the winning track.

So what you and some other people might see as him being a selfish ballhog, did in fact do something very good for his team.