is there a reason why most of the latest NBA´s MVPs are not American?

[ArgSpursFan]

just wondering though.
If we take TD as a NON American also,the count gets even Bigger.
you think FIBA is a better BB schooll to form Basketball players tham NCAA??

[Sec24Row7]

Considering Nash and Nowinzki learned how to play basketball after they got to the NBA (yes that does make sense) I have a hard time supporting that statement...

[Obstructed_View]

Considering that Duncan is one of the worst basketball players in FIBA history...

[Spurminator]

The reason they're not American is that they were not born in America.

[ArgSpursFan]

The reason they're not American is that they were not born in America.

Really?,well that makes Duncan a Non American also.(But he played NCAA Basketaball )

[bdictjames]

Almost anyone can make it big in the U.S., but in Europe it must take some special skill for you to be recognized by foreign scouts. Plus non-Americans probably have better fundamentals

[hater]

I blame it on white ppl, they want to see the brother down

[gaKNOW!blee]

Steve Nash played in the ncaa as well, so really your point is just dirk?

[Obstructed_View]

Almost anyone can make it big in the U.S., but in Europe it must take some special skill for you to be recognized by foreign scouts. Plus non-Americans probably have better fundamentals
I bet the non-Americans are smarter and culturally more sophisticated, too.

[ArgSpursFan]

Almost anyone can make it big in the U.S., but in Europe it must take some special skill for you to be recognized by foreign scouts. Plus non-Americans probably have better fundamentals

That´s exacly where i was coming from with this thread.
Now,what´s the reason for that?does it start in US college or before that?
cause there is a Big diference on fundamentals on NON AMERCANS vs Americans players.The only thing that help African Americans is the athletysism.But (black)Brazilians got Fundamentals +Athletysism,and they played and learned BB under FIBA rules.

[ArgSpursFan]

Steve Nash played in the ncaa as well, so really your point is just dirk?

not really.Nash LEARNED BB under FIBA rules.He played FIBA for the Canadian Nat.team for many years.

[hater]

I bet the non-Americans are smarter and culturally more sophisticated, too.

they are cleaner too and less fat

[Obstructed_View]

not really.Nash LEARNED BB under FIBA rules.He played FIBA for the Canadian Nat.team for many years.
:lol

[Obstructed_View]

they are cleaner too and less fat
I might concede on the less fat argument because there isn't as much food to go around, but we dominate the world in the hygiene department!

Maybe international basketball players have better fundamentals becuase they'd rather stay away from each other?

[ShoogarBear]

Dumb thread.

Nash and Duncan learned how to play basketball in the US. Without US coaching they'd be nothing.

And Dirk would have been another Rik Smits without Don Nelson and AJ.

Just wait, eventually this will morph into why Ginobili should be the #1 Spur of all time.

[bdictjames]

Hey I think I got a semi-answer for that one. Probably because of the extra sports they play.

Nash plays soccer and I think Dirk does too, so that helps them gain a somehow special skill in basketball. Nash can dribble circles around anyone, runs fast, and has excellent court vision. Dirk is much more agile than most big men.

And Duncan's early swimming career must have helped with his post moves and fundamentals around the basket.

[Obstructed_View]

Hey I think I got a semi-answer for that one. Probably because of the extra sports they play.

Nash plays soccer and I think Dirk does too, so that helps them gain a somehow special skill in basketball. Nash can dribble circles around anyone, runs fast, and has excellent court vision. Dirk is much more agile than most big men.

And Duncan's early swimming career must have helped with his post moves and fundamentals around the basket.
Hey, yeah. Americans only play basketball. That must be it!

[Solid D]

MVP = Showering less

:smokin

[ArgSpursFan]

Dumb thread.

Nash and Duncan learned how to play basketball in the US. Without US coaching they'd be nothing.

And Dirk would have been another Rik Smits without Don Nelson and AJ.

Just wait, eventually this will morph into why Ginobili should be the #1 Spur of all time.

yeah,right.And also on why the spurs don´t draft NCAA players no more.Nice try sugar,but keep on trying though

[romain.star]

talking about the Foreigners in the league, is there any reason why they all play in the West?
Stojakovic in New Orleans, TP and Manu in SA, Nash in Phoenix, Dirk in Dallas, Gasol in Memphis, Yao Ming in Houston...

[ArgSpursFan]

talking about the Foreigners in the league, is there any reason why they all play in the West?
Stojakovic in New Orleans, TP and Manu in SA, Nash in Phoenix, Dirk in Dallas, Gasol in Memphis, Yao Ming in Houston...

not really.
look:nocioni in chicago,Big Z in Cleveland,milicic in Orlando,barbajoza in Toronto.and it gets bigger.
they are all over the NBA.

[GrandeDavid]

The VI is a U.S. territory. Duncan is a U.S. Citizen. He's an American. He's even got the accent to boot.

[romain.star]

not really.
look:nocioni in chicago,Big Z in Cleveland,milicic in Orlando,barbajoza in Toronto.and it gets bigger.
they are all over the NBA.

still: the main Foreign forces are in the West... (i forgot about Diaw and Barbosa in Phoenix, Pietrus in GSW, Nene in Denver, Kirilenko and Okur in Utah...)... but yeah i don't see any reason for that...

[whottt]

Just wait till all the International players stop playing FIBA and you guys have to put a team together in 3 weeks, like we do. The illusions will end then.

Anyway, props to the International players...but you're not there yet. Get serious.

And how do Americans do overseas anyway? Pretty good eh? Even ones that can barely get on the court here...

[ArgSpursFan]

Just wait till all the International players stop playing FIBA and you guys have to put a team together in 3 weeks, like we do. The illusions will end then.

Anyway, props to the International players...but you're not there yet. Get serious.

maybe so,i dont think its the Arg case,cause most of their players play in the NBA or Europe,as USA team players.

but the NBA MVPs keep on been the NON Americans though.why is the reason for that?

[temujin]

The only foreign player that has really "learnt" to play in the US is Beno Udrih.

[Obstructed_View]

How many years did Elson play overseas?

[temujin]

Just wait till all the International players stop playing FIBA and you guys have to put a team together in 3 weeks, like we do. The illusions will end then.

Anyway, props to the International players...but you're not there yet. Get serious.

And how do Americans do overseas anyway? Pretty good eh? Even ones that can barely get on the court here...

Great idea.

Send us back the Ginobilis, Parkers, Stojakovics, Nowitskis, Kirilenkos and we promise to send you home the Joneses, Johnsons, Whites and others chaps running up and down the floor back here.

[ArgSpursFan]

ohh,I get it now,so the Nashes Nowiskys and all the Non Americans learned the game in the US?
So,who can explain me why the spurs draft only non Americans.
I dont think its a conicidence that They´re always on the playoffs and won 3 of the last 8 NBA championships.

[ducks]

ohh,I get it now,so the Nashes Nowiskys and all the Non Americans learned the game in the US?
So,who can explain me why the spurs draft only non Americans.
I dont think its a conicidence that They´re always on the playoffs and won 3 of the last 8 NBA championships.
because agrentines players are so much better :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[Bob Lanier]

So,who can explain me why the spurs draft only non Americans.
Because nobody in their target market cares when Holt's minions don't sign them to contracts.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I'm certain it's Bruce Bowen's fault.

[ArgSpursFan]

I'm certain it's Bruce Bowen's fault.

yeah,he sure learned the game overseas.cause cameback to the NBA and made a huge impact.

[whottt]

maybe so,i dont think its the Arg case,cause most of their players play in the NBA or Europe,as USA team players.

Now they do...but last time they didn't. Manu had just broken into the NBA in 04.

Argentina still is kind of lucky because two of their starters play together in Manu and Oberto...


but the NBA MVPs keep on been the NON Americans though.why is the reason for that?


Dirk is a freak no matter where he is from...


Stick Jason Kidd on the Suns(with Amare and D'Antoni) and his numbers will look a lot better...Nash isn't that much better than a guy like Jason Kidd.

Right situation, right coach, right team.

Dirk is a 7 foot two guard and there aren't many of those, but since he just got humiliated in the first round, I'm not sure I understand why you want to claim him....


Plus...if you are going to make it a USA VS the rest of the World thing...the Rest of the World should be winning the MVP, 250 Million Americans VS 6.4 Billion other people.

[whottt]

And saying Duncan is a foreign player is a huge load of crap...US Citizen, child of US Citizens, Husband of US Citizen, Father of US Citizen, Went to School in the USA, plays for Team USA in the Olympics...Duncan is a hell of a lot closer to being an American than he is an International Player...get serious.

You hear Duncan talking about fucking Soccer? No, he talks about the Chicago Bears.

[ArgSpursFan]

Now they do...but last time they didn't. Manu had just broken into the NBA in 04.

Argentina still is kind of lucky because two of their starters play together in Manu and Oberto...




Dirk is a freak no matter where he is from...


Stick Jason Kidd on the Suns(with Amare and D'Antoni) and his numbers will look a lot better...Nash isn't that much better than a guy like Jason Kidd.

Right situation, right coach, right team.

Dirk is a 7 foot two guard and there aren't many of those, but since he just got humiliated in the first round, I'm not sure I understand why you want to claim him....


Plus...if you are going to make it a USA VS the rest of the World thing...the Rest of the World should be winning the MVP, 250 Million Americans VS 6.4 Billion other people.

Not really.but there must be a reason why the USA team dont make an inpact in international competiotions no more,while the rest of the top countries have all their players in the NBA or in Europe playing 2 championships at the same time(euroleague +domestics leagues)and are in the same position to put a team together tham the USA,and If you add that to the fact that the last 3 MVPs were not Americans,there must be something going on,with the Americans players formation or something.

[romain.star]

You hear Duncan talking about fucking Soccer? No, he talks about the Chicago Bears.

is that an argument?

[Ghost Writer]

I bet David Stern could not be more pleased that the past three (3) MVPs went to a couple white boys with all the bad press the NBA ballas have been bringing to the game both on and off the court.

Yeah, I said it.






:cooldevil

[whottt]

Not really.but there must be a reason why the USA team dont make an inpact in international competiotions no more,

How'd Argentina do in the last international competition?

NBA success kicks the crap out of National Teams.



while the rest of the top countries have all their players in the NBA or in Europe playing 2 championships at the same time(euroleague +domestics leagues)and are in the same position to put a team together tham the

You aren't seriously comparing the EuroSchedule to the NBA schedule are you? Hell you ever listen to interviews of your own players? The NBA schedule is much more brutal.



USA,and If you add that to the fact that the last 3 MVPs were not Americans,there must be something going on,with the Americans players formation or something.

Mainly because clearly the best players on the best teams the last few years have been international players, that doesn't mean they are the best player in the league...

Most GM's would have taken Shaq over any other player in the NBA just about every year of his career...he won, 1 , MVP in his career.

Right now if you offer a GM any player in the World, about 90% of them will take LeBron James even though he hasn't won anything...




I mean the international style of play has improved and there are a lot of great players coming internationally now, and they are usually fundamentally strong offensively, and good team players, but they aren't particularly great defensively with the exception of AK47....

I see the point you are making, but I don't really believe the rest of the World has surpassed the USA as the King of Basketball...

And the thing is...the rest of the World combined, should be better than the US at basketball...it should be.

But claiming we are done or surpassed because of 1 Olympics and a couple of MVP's...that'd be like America claiming it is the King of Soccer after winning 1 World Cup or the best player being an American...would you buy it? Or would you need more convincing?

It'd mean something, but it wouldn't exactly mean we lead the World in Soccer and are the greatest Soccer country in the World...

[ArgSpursFan]

How'd Argentina do in the last international competition?

NBA success kicks the crap out of National Teams.




You aren't seriously comparing the EuroSchedule to the NBA schedule are you? Hell you ever listen to interviews of your own players? The NBA schedule is much more brutal.




Mainly because clearly the best players on the best teams the last few years have been international players, that doesn't mean they are the best player in the league...

Most GM's would have taken Shaq over any other player in the NBA just about every year of his career...he won, 1 , MVP in his career.

Right now if you offer a GM any player in the World, about 90% of them will take LeBron James even though he hasn't won anything...




I mean the international style of play has improved and there are a lot of great players coming internationally now, and they are usually fundamentally strong offensively, and good team players, but they aren't particularly great defensively with the exception of AK47....

I see the point you are making, but I don't really believe the rest of the World has surpassed the USA as the King of Basketball...

And the thing is...the rest of the World combined, should be better than the US at basketball...it should be.

But claiming we are done or surpassed because of 1 Olympics and a couple of MVP's...that'd be like America claiming it is the King of Soccer after winning 1 World Cup or the best player being an American...would you buy it? Or would you need more convincing?

It'd mean something, but it wouldn't exactly mean we lead the World in Soccer and are the greatest Soccer country in the World...
I see your point wott,and respect it,but you have to agree with me that,right now its not enough for the african american players to just be athletics in order to win a championship or the MVP,like it was in the past.
would you agree with me,if I say that the USA should at least think about making KIDS learn the game a diferent way tham right now?with this street ball kind of thing going on in the US right now,Kids only think on how to Dunk the ball or make a fansy pass,reather tham learning the game true basics and fundamentals.
I don´t know if I´m wrong or not,but street ball aint forming real BB players,only fansy/physical players.

[whottt]

Sure, but that's what happens when these kids start bypassing college for NBA Millions, they are bypassing the phase of their careers that was typically devoted to polishing and refining their game, whereas a lot of the International players are coming after polishing. There aren't any 20 year old Euros dominating the NBA, and it's taken Dirk and Nash years to reach the level they play at now.

Plus.. I think International Ball is already influencing the NBA and American players...so is Duncan. I mean there is a desire to see our players improve their fundamentals, including by the players themselves...but the obstacle is teams wanting to lock them up when they can, based on talent before the development of fudamentals at the pro level.


Long term I think what will happen is the NBA teams will start snagging International players before they learn fundamentals more than likely...


There are a lot socio politico economic factors involved in sports excellence as well...

The American players weren't great merely because they were African American...if that were true, Africa would kick the shit out of everyone in basketball. And last I checked, they haven't...in Soccer either. In America, they had something to prove here, and as opressed segments of socities have done since time began...ahtletics was a great way to make that point...that point has been made and I think you are seeing a decline in African American dominance in American athletics as a result of that...the hunger just isn't there like it used to be.



And now it just so happens that a lot of these International players, are coming from social, political, and economic backgrounds similar to those that were producing so many African American Basketball players...I mean it's not like Germany is flooding the NBA with players....or Canada, the bulk of these International players are coming from former Eastern Bloc Countries and South America...

Anyway...in this area I see that the Internationals will probably become less and less sound as NBA teams attempt to be the ones to get to them first...that'll really happen if the NBA expands again.

BUt keep in mind...requiring 1 year out of highschool is an attempt by the NBA to improve the fundamentals of the American players coming into the NBA.

[ShoogarBear]

yeah,right.And also on why the spurs don´t draft NCAA players no more.Nice try sugar,but keep on trying thoughYou are really cementing your reputation.

[dav4463]

I blame it on white ppl, they want to see the brother down

I'm sorry! :lol

[Jelly]

Really?,well that makes Duncan a Non American also.(But he played NCAA Basketaball )

uhhh......NO. Duncan was born in America. Does it shock you to know that The United States Virgin Islands is part of the United States?
:shootme

[Jelly]

and by the way ArgSpursFan, the whole premise of your question and your subsequent comments make you come across as one arrogant, cocky, conceited foreign jackass.
And to think I just posted in another thread how nice it was to have an international fan base. Fortunately, most of them are nice enough.

[ArgSpursFan]

The American players weren't great merely because they were African American...if that were true, Africa would kick the shit out of everyone in basketball. And last I checked, they haven't...in Soccer either.

It´s deferent the socio/ economic situation in Africa tham In America,that´s why they haven´t won anything in the international level in Africa,remember that while in America any kid can buy a BB or soccer Ball,in Africa they need to walk probably 10/15 miles to get to a place where there´s a court and hopefully somebody will have a ball to play with.
that´s why Africans are so good at long distance athletism races like marathons.




[/QUOTE] In America, they had something to prove here, and as opressed segments of socities have done since time began...ahtletics was a great way to make that point...that point has been made and I think you are seeing a decline in African American dominance in American athletics as a result of that...the hunger just isn't there like it used to be..[/QUOTE]



I agree on that.People is way too confortable right now in the US.No need to sacrifice themself no more.





[/QUOTE]And now it just so happens that a lot of these International players, are coming from social, political, and economic backgrounds similar to those that were producing so many African American Basketball players...I mean it's not like Germany is flooding the NBA with players....or Canada, the bulk of these International players are coming from former Eastern Bloc Countries and South America....[/QUOTE]



True.It might be a socio/economic thing behind the performance or desire on International players,they seem to be hungry for success.

But at the same time the best international players are not from South America or eastern Europe,they are from Germany and Canada,so It have to have something to do with the formation of players(when kids or teenagers)in the US tham in the rest of the world I belive.It could be too much Play Station 2,It could also be Kids joinin gangs instead of go play with other kids,or It could be that kids aren´t learning BB fundamentals no more.Just street ball..




.[/QUOTE]BUt keep in mind...requiring 1 year out of highschool is an attempt by the NBA to improve the fundamentals of the American players coming into the NBA.[/QUOTE]


Disagree on that.I think that´s killing the US guy´s fundamentals too.They get rich before they learned the game´s fundamentals.

[ArgSpursFan]

and by the way ArgSpursFan, the whole premise of your question and your subsequent comments make you come across as one arrogant, cocky, conceited foreign jackass.
And to think I just posted in another thread how nice it was to have an international fan base. Fortunately, most of them are nice enough.

I am nice,I just happen to think diferent tham you jelly.
BTW,nice to meet you.

[Jelly]

I am nice,I just happen to think diferent tham you jelly.
BTW,nice to meet you.

Well, then I'll humour you with this little factoid I just heard on ESPN, since you are so obsessed with the "huge" number of non-American MVPs.

According to ESPN: Among international MVPs, Dirk Nowitzki is THE ONLY who did not play high school and/or College Basketball in the United States.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, then I'll humour you with this little factoid I just heard on ESPN, since you are so obsessed with the "huge" number of non-American MVPs.

According to ESPN: Among international MVPs, Dirk Nowitzki is THE ONLY who did not play high school and/or College Basketball in the United States.
Yeah, but FIBA taught Steve Nash how to play. He's white so he doesn't have any athletic ability so FIBA's grooming is the only logical explanation. I think FIBA taught John Stockton, too.

[lefty]

Considering Nash and Nowinzki learned how to play basketball after they got to the NBA (yes that does make sense) I have a hard time supporting that statement...

Nash and Nowitzki are who they are now because of their work ethic ; Dirk dominated american players in a youngsters tournament held in San Antonio, before Don Nelson drafted him.

Therefore, your argument is stupid

[ArgSpursFan]

I can give you all tons of examples of NCAA players who sucked in the NBA,went to Europe and came back better tham when they left.
lets see:Hudonis Haslem,Bruce Bowen,Pepe Sanchez(temple)ect ect ect

but the fundamentals that a player carry for the rest of his carrer,it has to be learned before NCAA or FIBA .you learn that as a kid or teenager. and that´s the argument of this thread.

I guess F. Elson is the only MF who just gets worst and worst.

[temujin]

Interesting thread.

Last year a friend of mine here received a formal offer, a written contract, to go to the US as an assistant coach to an NBA team.
Specific mission: teach some of his players -a couple in particular- that "basketball isn't ALL just about leaping and jumping." (exact words of the head coach, translated in english from another language).

He turned it down.
Too wealthy and busy with his own business and golf to waste his time in a desperate effort.

It isn't actually such a bad team: second best record, MVP point guard (the guy would have not dealt with this one, one that KNOWS what basketball is all about) and a serious shot at eliminating an excellent team that many here care about.

I think there should be plenty such jobs available.

[temujin]

Now they do...but last time they didn't. Manu had just broken into the NBA in 04.

Argentina still is kind of lucky because two of their starters play together in Manu and Oberto...




Dirk is a freak no matter where he is from...


Stick Jason Kidd on the Suns(with Amare and D'Antoni) and his numbers will look a lot better...Nash isn't that much better than a guy like Jason Kidd.

Right situation, right coach, right team.

Dirk is a 7 foot two guard and there aren't many of those, but since he just got humiliated in the first round, I'm not sure I understand why you want to claim him....


Plus...if you are going to make it a USA VS the rest of the World thing...the Rest of the World should be winning the MVP, 250 Million Americans VS 6.4 Billion other people.

Nah it's Germany (90 millions) vs the rest of the world.

[temujin]

and by the way ArgSpursFan, the whole premise of your question and your subsequent comments make you come across as one arrogant, cocky, conceited foreign jackass.
And to think I just posted in another thread how nice it was to have an international fan base. Fortunately, most of them are nice enough.

I am not sure whether I am nice, but there is a great deal of truth in what Argfans writes.

The Spurs FO have lead the way in intelligence by realizing what a difference could make drafting excellent TEAM players from outside the US.

At the other end of the spectrum stand the NY Knicks, a living legend in world professional sports in drafting stubborn home-made circus-belonging loosers.

[ArgSpursFan]

It´s just a matter of Learning the game the right way from ground zero I belive.In argentina is not a coincidence that Players like Manu or many others are having such a world wide impact,and the National team is leading most of the internationals competitions.
Basketball it been teached in every other comunity/state in the country and you can eather go to a FREE basketball school/club or soccer schooll/club,or whatever sport you like,or you can go to a private sports school.
Most of the Popular soccer and Basketball player have attended to a basketball or soccer club/schooll since a very short age(around 6/7 yrs old)and THERE they learn the sport BASICS/FUNDAMENTALS and most important they teach you how to be a team player,and tell you that basketball is a team´s sport not like tennis or swimming,just to give an example.

[romain.star]

Nah it's Germany (90 millions) vs the rest of the world.

with all my respect, it's 80 millions inhabitants

[Obstructed_View]

Somebody needs a math lesson.

[whottt]

ArgSpursfan...

#1. What makes you think fundamental basketball isn't taught at the highschool and lower level in America?

That's a huge assumption on your part.


#2. Dirk winning the MVP has about jack shit to do with his fundamentals...

Where's the other German Dirk? Where's the other Dirk?

Ooops.

Nash and Dirk weren't very good when they got to the NBA, fundamentally or otherwise, and neither wanted to play a lick of defense...

And they routinely got their asses kicked by the powerhouse teams of the NBA when they played on the same team.


Don Nelson coached them longer than any other coach they had did...and you know, he just whipped their ass with a bunch of American players...playing the same style.


#3. Ask Tony Parker and Manu who their favorite player is...it's not some guy known for his fundamentals and team play credo...it's Michael Jordan, the grandaddy of all selfish ballhogs...


#4. If there is something the rest of the world is doing to make them fundamentally superior jumpshooters...it'd be fucking nice if Manu showed it sometime before this series is over...you know, like Nash and Dirk AKA the rest of the world.

#5. Argentina won't be winning the gold medal in 08...surely you see this already?

Neither will Germany, or Canada...France might, but more than likely it will be the US.


See to me...it's like we've lost 3 times in Olympic history...one time was a sham, the other two were by teams with extensive experience playing together, and ill concieved US teams...

But to me, the 47 times we won it means more than the 3 times we didn't...I don't see a whole lot of room to crow...

At least wait until we lose another Olympics, for the first time...ever.




And the International players coming from the countries that are producing the most of them, will take the money over spending 5 years in Europe, just like Americans take it instead of going to college...and really, you'd be kind of stupid not too...in most cases.


As for the socio aspect we got into earlier...

Huge difference between being poor and in the menial segment of society vs starvation and famine...

If the living conditions are too bad, they won't be producing athletes.

[Extra Stout]

just wondering though.
If we take TD as a NON American also,the count gets even Bigger.
you think FIBA is a better BB schooll to form Basketball players tham NCAA??
I think you're on to something here, what with Duncan and Nash matriculating on FIBA teams like Wake Forest and Santa Clara.

[Extra Stout]

not really.Nash LEARNED BB under FIBA rules.He played FIBA for the Canadian Nat.team for many years.
Does chronological order go backwards in the Southern Hemisphere?

[Extra Stout]

If that ignorant, rude, bigoted Argentine fellow needs to know, the problem in the U.S. is not the NCAA system. The problem is that players out of high school bypass all or part of their NCAA careers and go straight to the NBA. The youth system in the USA is called the AAU. It is corrupt, filled with leeches who exploit the talent of young players for their own personal gain, without allowing the kids ever actually to learn the game.

[ArgSpursFan]

If that ignorant, rude, bigoted Argentine fellow needs to know, the problem in the U.S. is not the NCAA system. The problem is that players out of high school bypass all or part of their NCAA careers and go straight to the NBA. The youth system in the USA is called the AAU. It is corrupt, filled with leeches who exploit the talent of young players for their own personal gain, without allowing the kids ever actually to learn the game.

thanks for the complements,I would like to see who is more ignorant here though,but like you said,the problem is the corrupt system that makes the young guys bypass the NCAA or even big part of high schooll,to start making money in the NBA.So now,why isnt the NCAA a profetional league anyways?with standard sallaries for young kids who want to help their families,I know most of them get paid under the table,but I don´t think Its gonna hurt the system to make the NCAA a Pro league,that way kids wont be desperate to be drafted at the age of 19.
I´m not saying big sallaries tho,just a regular sallary to somebody who is playing for a team who SELLS TICKETS AND TV RIGHTS for the games these kids are playing.

[ArgSpursFan]

ArgSpursfan...

#1. What makes you think fundamental basketball isn't taught at the highschool and lower level in America?
That's a huge assumption on your part.


#2. Dirk winning the MVP has about jack shit to do with his fundamentals...

Where's the other German Dirk? Where's the other Dirk?

Ooops.

Nash and Dirk weren't very good when they got to the NBA, fundamentally or otherwise, and neither wanted to play a lick of defense...

And they routinely got their asses kicked by the powerhouse teams of the NBA when they played on the same team.


Don Nelson coached them longer than any other coach they had did...and you know, he just whipped their ass with a bunch of American players...playing the same style.


#3. Ask Tony Parker and Manu who their favorite player is...it's not some guy known for his fundamentals and team play credo...it's Michael Jordan, the grandaddy of all selfish ballhogs...


#4. If there is something the rest of the world is doing to make them fundamentally superior jumpshooters...it'd be fucking nice if Manu showed it sometime before this series is over...you know, like Nash and Dirk AKA the rest of the world.

#5. Argentina won't be winning the gold medal in 08...surely you see this already?

Neither will Germany, or Canada...France might, but more than likely it will be the US.


See to me...it's like we've lost 3 times in Olympic history...one time was a sham, the other two were by teams with extensive experience playing together, and ill concieved US teams...

But to me, the 47 times we won it means more than the 3 times we didn't...I don't see a whole lot of room to crow...
At least wait until we lose another Olympics, for the first time...ever.




And the International players coming from the countries that are producing the most of them, will take the money over spending 5 years in Europe, just like Americans take it instead of going to college...and really, you'd be kind of stupid not too...in most cases.


As for the socio aspect we got into earlier...

Huge difference between being poor and in the menial segment of society vs starvation and famine...

If the living conditions are too bad, they won't be producing athletes.


1 st of all,I´m not saying that US isn´t the bigger and best producer of BB players.I love the NBA and my fab players ever are Americans.(read MJ,Magic,Larry,Stockton,etc)but that´s the PAST whott,the tittle of this thread is:is the a reazon why MOST OF THE LATEST........and I´m talking about the last 6 to 8 yrs,not the American BB players History.
There´s a reazon why the NBA is spanding now more tham ever in the history of NBA.

secondly,I refuse to belive that Nash and Dirk learned DIFFENSE with Don Nelson,come on!!!

3-If I was you,I wouldn´t buy no champagne to celebrate a world championship or Olympics gold medal,until the US is in the Final game up by at least 10,no disrespect,but BB aint like in the mid 90´s or before that no more,and I´m not sure if Arg can or can´t repet it ,but I know our guys play as a team though.

and finally...I live 6 months in the US and 6 months in Arg every year,and when I´m in the US,I have a hard time trying to find a BB schooll or club for my 10 yrs old son,So I know for a fact what goes on with kids who wanna learn or play BB,there are some communities teams,coached mostly by fathers,but not many BB schools or clinics for kids.At least in the Orlando Area.

[ArgSpursFan]

I am not sure whether I am nice, but there is a great deal of truth in what Argfans writes.

The Spurs FO have lead the way in intelligence by realizing what a difference could make drafting excellent TEAM players from outside the US.

At the other end of the spectrum stand the NY Knicks, a living legend in world professional sports in drafting stubborn home-made circus-belonging loosers.

:reading

[ArgSpursFan]

Bump-!

[ShoogarBear]

I think FIBA taught John Stockton, too.:rollin

[WalterBenitez]

just wondering though.
If we take TD as a NON American also,the count gets even Bigger.
you think FIBA is a better BB schooll to form Basketball players tham NCAA??

YES!

[Extra Stout]

USA Population: 300 million
Non-USA Population: nearly 6 billion

I wonder which pool is deeper?

[ArgSpursFan]

USA Population: 300 million
Non-USA Population: nearly 6 billion

I wonder which pool is deeper?

yeah buddy,but in the Olympics and world championships US don´t play vs the rest of the world,and still don´t get to the finals like they used to in the past every tournament.
see my point now?
why before there was such a US dominance and now no more?

[Extra Stout]

yeah buddy,but in the Olympics and world championships US don´t play vs the rest of the world,and still don´t get to the finals like they used to in the past every tournament.
see my point now?
why before there was such a US dominance and now no more?
Because fifteen years ago, the athletes around the world who love to play basketball, loved to play futbol instead.

The FIBA game is much more team-oriented than the American game, which has many more one- and two-man sets, and so a bunch of guys who have played together for years and are experienced in the FIBA rules have an advantage over guys who don't play together so much, and who aren't used to FIBA rules. Cohesive teams can beat superior talent.

It used to be the USA talent was so superior it could overcome this, but the world is catching up.

[ArgSpursFan]

So,there is no coincidence that Dirk is the MVP though.That was my argument to start this thread.