Don't fall for it!

[Zig]

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.

Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble! :rolleyes

[Hook Dem]

Amen!!!!!

[fatsack]

at least their fans haven't thrown crap at the players during/after the game.

[CubanMustGo]

Any NBA player would be expected to have a discussion with the ref after a play like that. Lebron didn't go ballistic or pull a Rasheed Wallace, so I don't know where anyone but a hater would get off calling what he did a "spectacle."

[AFBlue]

He was just CLEARLY fouled at the end of a crucial game on a play that would've sent him to the line to tie it up and give his team a chance to win....wouldn't YOU be pissed if you were in his shoes?

And I completely disagree that he was "blowing up" at Delaney....he was animated, but not disrespectful...and he had reason to be.

I'm not going to bash LeBron for his initial reaction and I'm not going to assume that he had to be pulled aside to be reminded to issue the standard "it didn't decide the game" speech. Notice he also didn't throw his teammates (Varajao with that rediculous 4th qtr play, and Boobie with his 1-10 night) under the bus as well.

Bottom Line: He DID show some class and maturity.

[Zig]

Any NBA player would be expected to have a discussion with the ref after a play like that. Lebron didn't go ballistic or pull a Rasheed Wallace, so I don't know where anyone but a hater would get off calling what he did a "spectacle."You are kidding me right? His ranting was on every sports station across the nation. When a Spurs player gets fouled, you don't see him staying on the court for 5 minutes after the game crying to a ref.

Maybe I am just a hater. I hate cocky, whiny players. Play with some class.

[samikeyp]

I have no problem with him going to the ref right after the play. Heat of the moment and he just lost a Finals game. I get that.

What others have done, and he didn't do, is go bitch to the media.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

He was scared of missing any of his 3 FTs.

[Zig]

He was just CLEARLY fouled at the end of a crucial game on a play that would've sent him to the line to tie it up and give his team a chance to win....wouldn't YOU be pissed if you were in his shoes?

And I completely disagree that he was "blowing up" at Delaney....he was animated, but not disrespectful...and he had reason to be.

I'm not going to bash LeBron for his initial reaction and I'm not going to assume that he had to be pulled aside to be reminded to issue the standard "it didn't decide the game" speech. Notice he also didn't throw his teammates (Varajao with that rediculous 4th qtr play, and Boobie with his 1-10 night) under the bus as well.

Bottom Line: He DID show some class and maturity.He was starting to get out of control until Delaney told him to STFU! - Watch the replay of his whining. He is getting quite upset and Delaney says something to him. LeDouche calms down because he doesn't want to pull a Stoudamire and get booted for the next game.

[Spurminator]

Man, you must really hate Tim Duncan.

[L.I.T]

And Bruce Bowen...and Manu Ginobili...oh and Pop.

Idiot.

[Obstructed_View]

There's nothing wrong with complaining during the game. Just don't carry it around as the single reason your team lost the game just because it was the one thing out of your control. James deserves credit for manning up. Period.

[Zig]

And Bruce Bowen...and Manu Ginobili...oh and Pop.

Idiot.LOL Pop - It is a coaches job to have his players back and bitch about calls. NOT the players! Play the game and don't whine. Pop has his players back. I wouldn't be bitching if Brown was calling out the refs.

Last time I checked - Bruce and Manu didn't have Chosen 1 and Witness tatooed all over them.

Idiot!

[LilMissSPURfect]

leprince was on the court doing the complaining & whinning i see that as part of the game...he growd up big from the court to the press table! deserves his props!

[Zig]

leprince was on the court doing the complaining & whinning i see that as part of the game...he growd up big from the court to the press table! deserves his props!Why is it so hard to see LeBUNG was coached after the games in the Finals. Here is a quote from an article....


general manager Danny Ferry and his assistant Lance Blanks took control of the situation, demanding from everyone that no excuses would be made. Hence, the quote from both Mike Brown and LeBron James: "We're a no-excuses team.

[twentyone]

leprince was on the court doing the complaining & whinning i see that as part of the game...he growd up big from the court to the press table! deserves his props!

I fell he was being a smart ass. He got the no call he deserved, the ref's did him a favor giving him the chance to tie the game. Who says that if the ball went in they wouldn't call the late whistle for the chance to win on a FT?

[L.I.T]

LOL Pop - It is a coaches job to have his players back and bitch about calls. NOT the players! Play the game and don't whine. Pop has his players back. I wouldn't be bitching if Brown was calling out the refs.

Last time I checked - Bruce and Manu didn't have Chosen 1 and Witness tatooed all over them.

Idiot!

Basically, you're using his tattoos as an avenue to criticize him. Moronic. I saw nothing in his post-game reaction on the court warrants non-homer criticism. He told the ref I was fouled, that's it. He didn't show them up, he didn't curse or pitch a fit a'la Nash in Game 6 (during the course of the game).

He comported himself well in the post-game conferences, and deserves props for that. Unlike other stars we've seen this post-season, he didn't use that isolated (non)call as a crutch for them losing.

That was a classy move.

[Obstructed_View]

LOL Pop - It is a coaches job to have his players back and bitch about calls. NOT the players! Play the game and don't whine. Pop has his players back. I wouldn't be bitching if Brown was calling out the refs.

Last time I checked - Bruce and Manu didn't have Chosen 1 and Witness tatooed all over them.

Idiot!
You checked all over them for tattoos?

[ambchang]

Duncan bitch about calls all the time, Finley discusses it with officials, players are SUPPOSED to do that.
When people talked about Duncan's whining, us Spurs fans usually go "But that stays on the court, which is acceptable, he never does it to the press." So now Lebron does the same thing, and he's a hypocrite? Seems like you need to look in the mirror.

[Spurminator]

I suggest you start over with a new screen name, this was not a good debut.

[nkdlunch]

Lebronze was chosen to suck

[Zig]

Basically, you're using his tattoos as an avenue to criticize him. Moronic. I saw nothing in his post-game reaction on the court warrants non-homer criticism. He told the ref I was fouled, that's it. He didn't show them up, he didn't curse or pitch a fit a'la Nash in Game 6 (during the course of the game).

He comported himself well in the post-game conferences, and deserves props for that. Unlike other stars we've seen this post-season, he didn't use that isolated (non)call as a crutch for them losing.

That was a classy move.Ummm...No - I am using his tatoos to show how full of himself he is. What kind of a person tatoos Chosen 1 on his back. ummmm..... Maybe one who thinks he is God's gift to basketball. Give me a break. The dude is young and cocky. I'm sure he is starting his growing process and having his ass kicked all over the court is helping. His is is learning how to deal with the media from his coaches and management.

I would be just a critical of Duncan if he got a tatoo similar to LeBUNG's. But Tim is humble and classy. He is the best PF to ever play the game. LeBUNG has a long way to go to even be spoken with the best guards of all time and he is donning that tattoo. GMAFB!

[MadDog73]

Lame thread.

Lebron is a great player, and I respect him and his class. I don't get why we have to hate good players just because they are on the opposing team...

especially when we are beating said team 3-0.

Have some class and give Lebron some props.

[CubanMustGo]

Ummm...No - I am using his tatoos to show how full of himself he is. What kind of a person tatoos Chosen 1 on his back. ummmm..... Maybe one who thinks he is God's gift to basketball. Give me a break. The dude is young and cocky.

No, you're judging someone based on his past (and youthful mistakes) rather than his current behaviour. Lebron has given the Spurs more props than any other star they have played this postseason.

[Zig]

players are SUPPOSED to do that.
Is that part of practice during the season? Do scouts look for good bitchers when the kids are in high school and college?

LOL :rolleyes

[Zig]

Lame thread.

Lebron is a great player, and I respect him and his class. I don't get why we have to hate good players just because they are on the opposing team...

especially when we are beating said team 3-0.

Have some class and give Lebron some props.I missed the part where I said he wasn't a good player.

[MadDog73]

I missed the part where I said he wasn't a good player.

:rolleyes

I just think it's classless to jump all over a player because of his tattoos and he gets upset at refs.

If you're gonna do that, there are a lot more players for you to hate more than LeBron.

[Obstructed_View]

I missed the part where I said he wasn't a good player.
Good, then shut up.

[Zig]

Good, then shut up.This thread was about how LeBUNG was not sincere at the PC - not his game play.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Whether he was coached or just manned up on his own doesn't matter to me. It's a hell of a lot better than the bitchfest that was the first two rounds.

[Obstructed_View]

This thread was about how LeBUNG was not sincere at the PC - not his game play.
What incredible powers of observation you have. Of course he wasn't sincere!!!! It was right after the goddamn game, and he was probably still fuming about it. But he came in, sat down, made no excuses about it, didn't feed the media frenzy and gave tons of credit to his opponent. And you won't give him credit because you know he didn't believe it? Fucking please.

[Zig]

What incredible powers of observation you have. Of course he wasn't sincere!!!! Good, then shut up.

[JustSpurs]

Mouse Mouse Mouse

[ambchang]

Is that part of practice during the season? Do scouts look for good bitchers when the kids are in high school and college?

LOL :rolleyes
You are also supposed to read the whole thread, but it's apparent you never practiced that.
BTW, did you practice breathing when you were in college or high school? Because if you didn't, stop doing breathing. According to you, people are only supposed to do things they practiced.

LOL :rolleyes.

[Zig]

You are also supposed to read the whole thread, but it's apparent you never practiced that.
BTW, did you practice breathing when you were in college or high school? Because if you didn't, stop doing breathing. According to you, people are only supposed to do things they practiced.

LOL :rolleyes.The bottom line is players are not SUPPOSED to bitch at the refs. Coaches are SUPPOSED to stick up for the players. They are SUPPOSED to bring things to the refs attention.

[Obstructed_View]

Good, then shut up.
You said he wasn't humble or mature, when he handled the game humbly and maturely. You are a douche.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Zig,

who cares?

[Zig]

You said he wasn't humble or mature, when he handled the game humbly and maturely. You are a douche.Ummm....no he didn't - He was obviously sarcastic in the PC and spent 5 min crying to the refs after the game. I wouldn't call that mature - and I wouldn't call Chosen 1 and Witness on the body humble.

[ambchang]

The bottom line is players are not SUPPOSED to bitch at the refs. Coaches are SUPPOSED to stick up for the players. They are SUPPOSED to bring things to the refs attention.
Captains AND Coaches are supposed to bring the attention to the refs, and that is what James did. So how else can he "bring things to the refs attention"?
And players SHOULD talk to the refs on blown calls, refs should know about them.
Anytime you show us your diploma for breathing? Or how it's OK for Duncan to complain and not James?

[Zig]

Zig,

who cares?Obviously many people - I made my statement - others chose to comment.

[Zig]

Captains AND Coaches are supposed to bring the attention to the refs, and that is what James did. So how else can he "bring things to the refs attention"?
And players SHOULD talk to the refs on blown calls, refs should know about them.
Anytime you show us your diploma for breathing? Or how it's OK for Duncan to complain and not James?Please show me where I said it is ok for Duncan to complain??? Captains are supposed to lead, and motivate their team. Crying about a call is NOT a captain's job.

Based on the grammer in your post, I challenge you to just show me your college diploma. :lol

[td4mvp3]

i do agree with the spirit of the thread, that too many people are fawning over how mature and humble lebron was in not saying he got fouled. to me, that's the point. he was fouled, he knows it, everyone knows it. he doesn't have to whine about it (and he wouldn't be since, quite obviously, bowen grabbed him and meant to grab him) but he should acknowledge it. saying it was incidental contact was just dismissing the defensive strategy, essentially saying that bowen wasn't a cause or factor when bowen quite clearly was. it was kobe-esque hubris. and no, none of it means he's a whiner or a bad player but it does go to the heart of the problem, the media spin and hype of lebron at this stage in his career. he's a cocky, talented young man, let's not pretend otherwise.

[703 Spurz]

Of course LeBron was told after the game to STFU and not make any excuses. Hell ESPNEWS kept showing him in slow motion mouthing that he was fouled.

[td4mvp3]

Of course LeBron was told after the game to STFU and not make any excuses. Hell ESPNEWS kept showing him in slow motion mouthing that he was fouled.
i think the issue is why act like he's more mature/classy than he is simply because he's following orders and keeping to a script? and it wasn't all that classy to lie about an obvious blown call instead of owning up to it.

[Zig]

i do agree with the spirit of the thread, that too many people are fawning over how mature and humble lebron was in not saying he got fouled. to me, that's the point. he was fouled, he knows it, everyone knows it. he doesn't have to whine about it (and he wouldn't be since, quite obviously, bowen grabbed him and meant to grab him) but he should acknowledge it. saying it was incidental contact was just dismissing the defensive strategy, essentially saying that bowen wasn't a cause or factor when bowen quite clearly was. it was kobe-esque hubris. and no, none of it means he's a whiner or a bad player but it does go to the heart of the problem, the media spin and hype of lebron at this stage in his career. he's a cocky, talented young man, let's not pretend otherwise.
Of course LeBron was told after the game to STFU and not make any excuses. Hell ESPNEWS kept showing him in slow motion mouthing that he was fouled.
Thank you! Thats all this thread was about. People need to stop swinging from LeBUNG's nuts and see that he is young and cocky.

[ambchang]

Please show me where I said it is ok for Duncan to complain??? Captains are supposed to lead, and motivate their team. Crying about a call is NOT a captain's job.

Based on the grammer in your post, I challenge you to just show me your college diploma. :lol

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap So based on what you just said, Duncan is immature?
And talking to the referees IS a captain's job.
And I don't have a diploma.

[Zig]

And I don't have a diploma.Not even one from IWHS or Providence? :lol

[MadDog73]

Zig, you're calling LeBron "LeDouche" and "LeBUNG"(?).

Doesn't really lend credibility to your opinions of what is "mature."

:rolleyes

[ambchang]

Not even one from IWHS or Providence? :lol
I don't know what those are.
So is Duncan immature and insincere? It would be quite a shame an intellect like you can't even use logic against a guy without a college diploma.

[Zig]

I don't know what those are.
So is Duncan immature and insincere? It would be quite a shame an intellect like you can't even use logic against a guy without a college diploma.Duncan is a master at smirking and staring at the refs to get his point across. Rarely does he get into a heated discussion with the refs like (this is for you MadDog) LeBron. In this series (MadDog)LeBron has been seen mouthing words about bad calls. I can't recall one occasion in this series where Tim had words with an official like (again MadDog) LeBron did. Tim also does not come off as being sarcastic in the PC after the games.

[ambchang]

Duncan is a master at smirking and staring at the refs to get his point across. Rarely does he get into a heated discussion with the refs like (this is for you MadDog) LeBron. In this series LeBron has been seen mouthing words about bad calls. I can recall one occasion in this series where Tim had words with an official like (again MadDod) LeBron did. Tim also does not come off as being sarcastic in the PC after the games.
Rarely? But he wasn't supposed to do it at all? Wasn't that your original point? And what makes Lebron's ONE instance in complaining to the ref as evidence that he was doing it continuously? You should have brought that up in your original argument if that was your intent, and you never did. You simply pointed to this one instance and that he was not supposed to have done it. But given that you don't have any formal education in debate, I guess you were not supposed to do it correctly.
So you are now the ultimate judge of what is sarcastic and what is not? How? Did you get a formal education in that college boy?
Finally, did Duncan go to school and get a diploma on smirking and staring? He is not supposed to do things he didn't have formal practice in. Is that part of practice during the season? Do scouts look for good smirkers and starers when the kids are in high school and college?

LOL :rolleyes

[byrontx]

Educate me a bit here. The foul by Bowen took place before LeBron set up to shoot so if a foul was called would it have been for three FTA's? If only two then it was a damn smart foul and allowing LeBron to go ahead and shoot was a gift from the ref.

[Zig]

Rarely? But he wasn't supposed to do it at all? Wasn't that your original point? And what makes Lebron's ONE instance in complaining to the ref as evidence that he was doing it continuously? You should have brought that up in your original argument if that was your intent, and you never did. You simply pointed to this one instance and that he was not supposed to have done it. But given that you don't have any formal education in debate, I guess you were not supposed to do it correctly.
So you are now the ultimate judge of what is sarcastic and what is not? How? Did you get a formal education in that college boy?
Finally, did Duncan go to school and get a diploma on smirking and staring? He is not supposed to do things he didn't have formal practice in. Is that part of practice during the season? Do scouts look for good smirkers and starers when the kids are in high school and college?

LOL :rolleyesWow getting a little touchy when we are losing a debate huh? I didn't know this was a court of law and had to submit a discovery ahead of time to include it in my arguments.

LeBron was shown

Whining about his 2nd foul in the last game when he went to the bench.
Whining about the push off last night when Bowen flopped
and at the end of last night's game.
I could go on, but I really don't need to.

[Zig]

Educate me a bit here. The foul by Bowen took place before LeBron set up to shoot so if a foul was called would it have been for three FTA's? If only two then it was a damn smart foul and allowing LeBron to go ahead and shoot was a gift from the ref.If the call had been made, it would have been debatable whether it was 3 or 2 shots. LeBron(MadDog) needs to realize that at that point in the game refs are rarely going to call that kind of contact. They are going to let the players play the game. Just part of LeBron(MadDog) being a young player.

[T Park]

Nah, I think Ill just go ahead and respect Lebron for being mature and man enough to say "the refs had nothing to do with it"


Christ ease up on him and lose the hate.

[MadDog73]

LeBron was shown

Whining about his 2nd foul in the last game when he went to the bench.
Whining about the push off last night when Bowen flopped
and at the end of last night's game.
I could go on, but I really don't need to.


No, please go on. I'm curious what exactly LeBron has done to inspire such scrutiny.

It's not like he's winning any games.

[ambchang]

Wow getting a little touchy when we are losing a debate huh? I didn't know this was a court of law and had to submit a discovery ahead of time to include it in my arguments.

LeBron was shown

Whining about his 2nd foul in the last game when he went to the bench.
Whining about the push off last night when Bowen flopped
and at the end of last night's game.
I could go on, but I really don't need to.
Anywhere I mentioned the court of law? It would be common sense to present your main point and argument in your first post, no?
Tim Duncan was shown
Whining on his 3rd foul.
Whining when he was hacked close to the end of the game, with about 1:30 left.
And these are not unusual because that is what is expected out of all players, especially the captain.
And losing a debate? Puhleeze (oops, wrote spelling, must be showing my lack of education), YOU are the one who failed to explain how James' action was different from Duncan's action, YOU are the one who failed to explain how practice is needed to do anything that was supposed to be done, and YOU are the one who claimed James was "sarcastic" with no way of backing it up.
So did scouts look for starers and glarers in high school and college?

[Zig]

Anywhere I mentioned the court of law? It would be common sense to present your main point and argument in your first post, no?
Tim Duncan was shown


Whining on his 3rd foul.
Whining when he was hacked close to the end of the game, with about 1:30 left.
And these are no unusual because that is what is expected out of all players, especially the captain.
And losing a debate? Puhleeze (oops, wrote spelling, must be showing my lack of education), YOU are the one who failed to explain how James' action was different from Duncan's action, YOU are the one who failed to explain, and YOU are the one who claimed James was "sarcastic" with no way of backing it up.
So did scouts look for starers and glarers in high school and college?

When you take a break from swinging from Lebron's(MadDog) purple head then maybe you will be able to see the difference.


Please show me the footage of Duncan getting in the official's face last night. I'm sure I can show you the footage of an irate LeBron James(MadDog) doing just that. It has been all over the news.

[ambchang]

When you take a break from swinging from Lebron's(MadDog) purple head then maybe you will be able to see the difference.


Please show me the footage of Duncan getting in the official's face last night. I'm sure I can show you the footage of an irate LeBron James(MadDog) doing just that. It has been all over the news.
Wow getting a little touchy when we are losing a debate huh?
And given that if it wasn't on any footage, it must not have happened huh? Show me Spurs 15th possession in the game, since it's not on footage, it must never have happened, right? It must have skipped directly from the 14th possession to the 16th possession.
And please go on and tell me how scouts do their work in rating players' abilities to smirk and stare. Please do.

[Zig]

Wow getting a little touchy when we are losing a debate huh?
And given that if it wasn't on any footage, it must not have happened huh? Show me Spurs 15th possession in the game, since it's not on footage, it must never have happened, right? It must have skipped directly from the 14th possession to the 16th possession.
And please go on and tell me how scouts do their work in rating players' abilities to smirk and stare. Please do.Wow - I am at a loss. You sir have crushed me with sound logic. My initial thread stating that Lebron(MadDog) did not show maturity and that he was coached before his PC comments has completely been blown out of the water. I now see that LeBron(MadDog) is a humble, classy, mature player. I bow to your superior debate skills and logic. :downspin:

[MadDog73]

Please show me the footage of Duncan getting in the official's face last night. I'm sure I can show you the footage of an irate LeBron James(MadDog) doing just that. It has been all over the news.

I like that my name is now synomonous with LeBron. If only I could get some money out of it...

But you and I have totally different views of LeBron and his actions.

I saw a young man debating a controversial call in a Must Win game at home. "In his face"? No. Whining? Perhaps, but, again, what NBA player doesn't.

Hell, Bruce throws his arms in the air with a "why me?" look.

Do you hate Bruce?

LeBron is mature for his age, and has class. More mature and classy than you, in any case.

[Zig]

And please go on and tell me how scouts do their work in rating players' abilities to smirk and stare. Please do.BTW please show me where I said players are SUPPOSED to smirk and stare? Or maybe I said it is THEIR JOB to smirk and stare? If you are going to use my lines against me, then please do it right.

[MadDog73]

BTW please show me where I said players are SUPPOSED to smirk and stare? Or maybe I said it is THEIR JOB to smirk and stare? If you are going to use my lines against me, then please do it right.


"Their job" is worse. Sounds like they are being paid to smirk and stare.

[Zig]

LeBron is mature for his age, and has class. More mature and classy than you, in any case.I enjoyed your post until you had to take a personal shot. I haven't taken a personal shot at you at all. I just put your name next to LeBron's(MadDog) to show to you how I can mature over a thread and not call him LeBung.

We can agree to disagree on this subject; and that is fine. My opinion is my opinion. I was just expressing it on the board. Does attacking my character make you a better person?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Obviously many people - I made my statement - others chose to comment.

Again, who cares?

The top of that franchise comes from the Spurs organization.

Much like Pop and the players here don't cry about officiating in obvious hose jobs, what's the big deal about Cleveland showing similar restraint?

People say the Spurs are classy for never going down that whiner's path that seems to be popular in Arizona these days, why shouldn't 'Bron get the same kudos for being mentored in the same fashion as the Spurs are here?

[Zig]

Maybe he isn't the most humble guy in the world...but if I'm that fucking good at 22 years old I won't be that humble either...but at least he comes off humble!Chosen1 and Witness tatoos are coming off humble? Do you feel that Shaq is humble too with his S tatoo.

[MadDog73]

I enjoyed your post until you had to take a personal shot. I haven't taken a personal shot at you at all. I just put your name next to LeBron's(MadDog) to show to you how I can mature over a thread and not call him LeBung.

Oh, that's why you did that. I thought it was you being a smartass. Silly me.



We can agree to disagree on this subject; and that is fine. My opinion is my opinion. I was just expressing it on the board. Does attacking my character make you a better person?

Did I hurt your feelings? You can dish it out "what college did you go to?", but can't take it.

Sorry I hurt your feelings. Now go home.

[Zig]

Oh, that's why you did that. I thought it was you being a smartass. Silly me.



Did I hurt your feelings? You can dish it out "what college did you go to?", but can't take it.

Sorry I hurt your feelings. Now go home.Actually - I don't believe I asked you what college you went to. I am not bragging about my education and my feelings are not hurt.

[ambchang]

Wow - I am at a loss. You sir have crushed me with sound logic. My initial thread stating that Lebron(MadDog) did not show maturity and that he was coached before his PC comments has completely been blown out of the water. I now see that LeBron(MadDog) is a humble, classy, mature player. I bow to your superior debate skills and logic. :downspin:
And my initial comeback of how a mature, humble, classy player like Duncan does the same thing game after game has absolutely shown no bearing to disprove your original claims. You must be the master of comprehension.

[MadDog73]

Actually - I don;t believe I asked you what college you went to. I am not bragging about my education and my feelings are not hurt.

No, you asked it about somebody else. Doesn't change anything.

Glad your feelings are not hurt.

Back to topic:

Basically, you're saying that NBA stars with an "S", or "Witness" or "Black Jesus" or any other strange shit are egomaniacs with no humility.

Fair enough. But that has nothing to do with LeBron James' class or maturity. (Unless you're going to argue that tatoos are a sign of lack of class and maturity... which I urge you to do. Then we can move this discussion away from LeBron James, and onto the more pressing concern of how tattoos are a sign of the ending of our civilization).

[ambchang]

BTW please show me where I said players are SUPPOSED to smirk and stare? Or maybe I said it is THEIR JOB to smirk and stare? If you are going to use my lines against me, then please do it right.
Then you have just stated Duncan is an immature, classless player, which I would disagree.

[ambchang]

I enjoyed your post until you had to take a personal shot. I haven't taken a personal shot at you at all. I just put your name next to LeBron's(MadDog) to show to you how I can mature over a thread and not call him LeBung.

We can agree to disagree on this subject; and that is fine. My opinion is my opinion. I was just expressing it on the board. Does attacking my character make you a better person?


When you take a break from swinging from Lebron's(MadDog) purple head then maybe you will be able to see the difference.

I present to all the master of hypocrisy.

[Zig]

This was my initial quote.



Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble!
Referring to yourself as the chosen1 is not a muture or humble thing to do. Why is that so hard to understand? The dude is 22. He has a lot of growing up to do. If he really thinks that he is the chosen one, then he really has some therapy to do. LeBron(MadDog) is a good player for his age, that is not in dispute. His maturity and humility is what this thread was about.

[Zig]

I present to all the master of hypocrisy.ambchang......are you even reading the posts? One of those was directed at you and the other was directed at MadDog. Please keep up if you are going to flame me.

[Zig]

It's a tatoo, so what? It's his body he can put anything he wants on it. I said he might not be humble but he comes off as being humble....Next time read my whole post! Lebron could be the most arrogant dick in the world but he doesn't seem like it!
I did read the whole posts and am still baffled how you can say a man with Chosen1 and Witness written across his back does not come off as arrogant?

[MadDog73]

ambchang......are you even reading the posts? One of those was directed at you and the other was directed at MadDog. Please keep up if you are going to flame me.


Zig, you may not get this, but we both read your posts. This isn't a PM.

You're not talking in a vacuum. This is a message board. We can comment on all your posts, not just the ones directed at us. :rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

Why do people argue with retards?

[Zig]

Zig, you may not get this, but we both read your posts. This isn't a PM.

You're not talking in a vacuum. This is a message board. We're going to comment on all you're posts, not just the ones directed at us. :rolleyesAgain - I am aware, but then there is also netiquette. There can be side conversations in a thread. I have been very reasonable with you and our posts. I have been a little more condescending with Mr. Ambchang. That should not give you the right to fire at me and take personal shots.

[Zig]

Because of the way he talks...Arrogant people: Kobe, Amare!!!! Shaq, Mark Cuban...

So he does have a tattoo that says that, but he doesn't go around saying to the media I'm the choosen one....Witness me! Nike does that and the kid has been so hyped his entire life, I don't blame him for having a those tattoos...he still is only a kid!Exactly my point! Thank you! He is young and immature. That was the initial thrust of this thread if you read it.

[MadDog73]

Why do people argue with retards?


Boredom? Slow work day? Bah, you're right, he's just bringing me down to his level.

I'll leave with this:

LeBron has class. You can see it in the way he carries himself, the way he talks. His tatoos, his arguing with the refs, doesn't take away from that.


So stick with arguing LeBron is not humble. With that, I'll agree.

But beating him up over his reaction to a foul, especially when he handled it very well, is just stupid and warrantless.

[Zig]

YOu can't say he is immature because of a tattoo: that is your personal opinion you have absolutely not facts to back it up other than a tattoo, which he could have gotten years ago!The Witness tatoo was recent and so was the Chosen1 - Cocky = immature.
Confident = mature!

[The Truth #6]

You are kidding me right? His ranting was on every sports station across the nation. When a Spurs player gets fouled, you don't see him staying on the court for 5 minutes after the game crying to a ref.

Maybe I am just a hater. I hate cocky, whiny players. Play with some class.

Horry was crying about getting fouled on a 3 pointer at the end of the first half and it was less contact than what Lebron received. This argument isn't huge in my opinion. It was a big play. It ended the series for the Cavs. If anything Lebron is known for not caring enough. This doesn't bother me.

[Zig]

I've read all your posts and all you seem to do is call Lebron names...why? because he is cocky and immature in your opinion? Well my friend that's 99 percent of sport athletes!Again - I refer you to my initial post. I was just pointing out that he is cocky and immature. After 4 pages of posts, it looks like we agree on that.

[ambchang]

ambchang......are you even reading the posts? One of those was directed at you and the other was directed at MadDog. Please keep up if you are going to flame me.
So when you are having personal attacks to me, and then lecturing somebody else on personal attacks, this does not translate into hypocrisy?
See, with my lack of a college diploma, I had to look up dictionary.com to make sure that I got the words right, but then:

hyp·o·crite
–noun 1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
sorts of fits to you a "T", doesn't it?

[TampaDude]

LeBron took the weight for the loss last night. He get props from me for that alone. :toast

[ambchang]

This was my initial quote.

Referring to yourself as the chosen1 is not a muture or humble thing to do. Why is that so hard to understand? The dude is 22. He has a lot of growing up to do. If he really thinks that he is the chosen one, then he really has some therapy to do. LeBron(MadDog) is a good player for his age, that is not in dispute. His maturity and humility is what this thread was about.

and yet THIS quote:

Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.
was left out of you quoting yourself.
So what was the relevance of that above paragraph when the sole intent was so show how immature LeBron is with all those tattoes?

[ambchang]

Why do people argue with retards?
To show that we don't need college diplomas.

[ambchang]

Boredom? Slow work day? Bah, you're right, he's just bringing me down to his level.

I'll leave with this:

LeBron has class. You can see it in the way he carries himself, the way he talks. His tatoos, his arguing with the refs, doesn't take away from that.


So stick with arguing LeBron is not humble. With that, I'll agree.

But beating him up over his reaction to a foul, especially when he handled it very well, is just stupid and warrantless.
See, you got it all wrong! It was his tats that was the problem! Him arguing with the refs have nothing to do with it, or so I am told.

[Zig]

So when you are having personal attacks to me, and then lecturing somebody else on personal attacks, this does not translate into hypocrisy?
See, with my lack of a college diploma, I had to look up dictionary.com to make sure that I got the words right, but then:

sorts of fits to you a "T", doesn't it?Wow - Didn't know I had to put on my professors hat...Well in your case HS Teacher's hat.

Netiquette is a catch-all term for the conventions of politeness and respect recognized on Usenet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet), in mailing lists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mailing_list), in live chat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_chat) systems, and on other electronic forums such as Internet message boards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum).

On message boards, in the same threads, you can have several conversations going on. In this particular thread many people were giving me their opinions of what I posted to start this thread. Now by using the "quote" button, it implys that you are sending a message directed to the person that you are quoting. By doing this, you create side conversations. Now let me remind you that ALL conversations can be read, but it is good netiquette to not interfere with others side conversations. This is something that you need to work on. Like LeBron(MadDog), you are young. It will come with maturity.

[Zig]

and yet THIS quote:

was left out of you quoting yourself.
So what was the relevance of that above paragraph when the sole intent was so show how immature LeBron is with all those tattoes?Well no, no that is not the case. A mature player would come off as being sincere in the PC. LeBron(MadDog) was anything but.

[Sasha]

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.

Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble! :rolleyes


Absolutely. I thought I was watching a real split personality at the press conference...

[ambchang]

Wow - Didn't know I had to put on my professors hat...Well in your case HS Teacher's hat.

Netiquette is a catch-all term for the conventions of politeness and respect recognized on Usenet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet), in mailing lists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mailing_list), in live chat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_chat) systems, and on other electronic forums such as Internet message boards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum).

On message boards, in the same threads, you can have several conversations going on. In this particular thread many people were giving me their opinions of what I posted to start this thread. Now by using the "quote" button, it implys that you are sending a message directed to the person that you are quoting. By doing this, you create side conversations. Now let me remind you that ALL conversations can be read, but it is good netiquette to not interfere with others side conversations. This is something that you need to work on. Like LeBron(MadDog), you are young. It will come with maturity.
What does that have to do with not being a hypocrite? So when a priest starts going around molestering children, that does not make him a hypocrite as long as he didn't tell the victim not to molester children?
I doubt you have a HS teacher hat, because a HS teacher needs a post grad degree, and your inability to understand simple definitions of words sends severe doubts as to whether you have one.

[Sasha]

I have no problem with him going to the ref right after the play. Heat of the moment and he just lost a Finals game. I get that.

What others have done, and he didn't do, is go bitch to the media.


Who was the commentator that said he should go bitch to the media so that the next game would be called more favorably? Someone said that.

[Zig]

What does that have to do with not being a hypocrite? So when a priest starts going around molestering children, that does not make him a hypocrite as long as he didn't tell the victim not to molester children?
I doubt you have a HS teacher hat, because a HS teacher needs a post grad degree, and your inability to understand simple definitions of words sends severe doubts as to whether you have one.Please explain how I am a hypocrite? Because I attacked your education and not MadDogs??

[ambchang]

Well no, no that is not the case. A mature player would come off as being sincere in the PC. LeBron(MadDog) was anything but.
So you are now a psychologist as well?
Let me see you train of logic, if a person sounds insincere to you, it would be a FACT that said person is immature, classless and cocky, and that anyone who disagrees with you are "lambs" and "on crack".
I happen to think that you are immature, classless and cocky because you happen to sound insincere to me on this board, and if you disagree, then you must a lamb on crack.

[Zig]

So you are now a psychologist as well?
Let me see you train of logic, if a person sounds insincere to you, it would be a FACT that said person is immature, classless and cocky, and that anyone who disagrees with you are "lambs" and "on crack".
I happen to think that you are immature, classless and cocky because you happen to sound insincere to me on this board, and if you disagree, then you must a lamb on crack.Wow :wtf where do I begin? The lack of grammar? Twisting of words?

[ambchang]

Please explain how I am a hypocrite? Because I attacked your education and not MadDogs??

And it seems like you neither have a Cerebral Cortex nor an ability to view page 3 of this thread.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1782944&postcount=74


I enjoyed your post until you had to take a personal shot. I haven't taken a personal shot at you at all. I just put your name next to LeBron's(MadDog) to show to you how I can mature over a thread and not call him LeBung.

We can agree to disagree on this subject; and that is fine. My opinion is my opinion. I was just expressing it on the board. Does attacking my character make you a better person?


When you take a break from swinging from Lebron's(MadDog) purple head then maybe you will be able to see the difference.

[ambchang]

Wow :wtf where do I begin? The lack of grammar? Twisting of words?
Start any where you prefer. In fact, I would love for you to point out my grammatical errors for I would enjoy learning about grammar on a basketball forum. :rolleyes
And how did I twist your words? How did the following quote not show that you have directly called people "lambs" for not agreeing with your statement that Lebron is immature? How does it not say that you said people are on crack if they didn't believe Brown and Ferry did not instruct James' behaviour in front of the press?

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.

Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble!

Tell me, for I would like to know how the mind of a genius works.

[Zig]

And it seems like you neither have a Cerebral Cortex nor an ability to view page 3 of this thread.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1782944&postcount=74Ok Again, and this is the last time I will post this for you. The first quote you posted there is a reply directed to MadDog. The second quote is directed to you.

This is not a case of hipocrisy. I direct you to the netiquette post I directed toward you several posts ago. In there I explain how you can have side conversations with people in a single thread.

Now if I made fun of your lack of a diploma and then was upset that YOU personally attacked me, that would be hipocrisy. See the difference?

[td4mvp3]

zig just seems too caught up in hammering his point than recognizing his argument. this has nothing to do with how classy/mature lebron is, there's no way to tell precisely because he was going through a rehearsed response in the postgame interview and his behavior on the court was typical of any ballplayer, not an iota more mature or immature than daniel gibson or tim duncan in the situation. the point, though, is how the media has crafted this "oh, what a gracious and classy answer" response to the question of bowen's foul, which doesn't withstand the light of day.

[Zig]

Start any where you prefer. In fact, I would love for you to point out my grammatical errors for I would enjoy learning about grammar on a basketball forum. :rolleyes
And how did I twist your words? How did the following quote not show that you have directly called people "lambs" for not agreeing with your statement that Lebron is immature? How does it not say that you said people are on crack if they didn't believe Brown and Ferry did not instruct James' behaviour in front of the press?


Tell me, for I would like to know how the mind of a genius works.You sir are the one referring to me as a genius. I have not made that claim at all.

My "lamb" reference was for the people that were jumping on the "LeBron(MadDog) grew up and showed his maturity" bandwagon. I referred to them as lambs because lambs are led to the slaughter without knowing what is happening. I was using that metaphor to show that these people were also being duped by LeBron's(MadDog) comments at the end of the game. IT IS MY OPINION that LeBron(MadDog) was not being sincere.

[td4mvp3]

and this stuff matters from the same point of view of why it always strikes a nerve when the media calls the spurs boring, bowen dirty, manu a flopper, tim a whiner and this team's accomplishment this year lucky. it's a sign of continued disrespect of a truly class organization and the shaping of public perception regardless of actual fact. the same reason espn analysts debate how this team is boring despite an espn poll showing 60 percent of the respondents think just the opposite is the reason lebron is being cheered as a class act for his response. it's spin and annoying and helps in keeping the spurs from being appreciated.

[Zig]

zig just seems too caught up in hammering his point than recognizing his argument. this has nothing to do with how classy/mature lebron is, there's no way to tell precisely because he was going through a rehearsed response in the postgame interview and his behavior on the court was typical of any ballplayer, not an iota more mature or immature than daniel gibson or tim duncan in the situation. the point, though, is how the media has crafted this "oh, what a gracious and classy answer" response to the question of bowen's foul, which doesn't withstand the light of day.Thank you TD for helping me out. It is hard to flush things out when you have someone who is twisting my words and not seeing my original argument.

[ambchang]

Ok Again, and this is the last time I will post this for you. The first quote you posted there is a reply directed to MadDog. The second quote is directed to you.

This is not a case of hipocrisy. I direct you to the netiquette post I directed toward you several posts ago. In there I explain how you can have side conversations with people in a single thread.

Now if I made fun of your lack of a diploma and then was upset that YOU personally attacked me, that would be hipocrisy. See the difference?

I just looked up hipocrasy, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hipocrisy, and there is no such word.
OMG, college boy can't spell! This must be the end of the world!
So you would agree that it is not hypocrisy for a priest to molester a child as long as he does not say to the child it is wrong to molester children?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite
Try reading again.
So not only have you shown that you are a hypocrite, you have shown that you do not have the mental capacity to understand OR spell hypocrite. I am starting to have doubts about my offer to have you correct my grammar.
Hypocrisy is NOT flipping out of shame.
If you cannot understand what

[ambchang]

You sir are the one referring to me as a genius. I have not made that claim at all.

My "lamb" reference was for the people that were jumping on the "LeBron(MadDog) grew up and showed his maturity" bandwagon. I referred to them as lambs because lambs are led to the slaughter without knowing what is happening. I was using that metaphor to show that these people were also being duped by LeBron's(MadDog) comments at the end of the game. IT IS MY OPINION that LeBron(MadDog) was not being sincere.
well duh!

[MadDog73]

the same reason espn analysts debate how this team is boring, despite an espn poll showing 60 percent of the respondents think just the opposite, is the reason lebron is being cheered as a class act for his response. it's spin and annoying and helps in keeping the spurs from being appreciated.

OK, I lied. I have to respond to this.

Are you saying that respect for LeBron is actually hurting the Spurs?

Complete and utter bullshit. One has nothing to do with the other.

To bring this argument full circle:

Are we to blame LeBron for the media blitz? Is it his fault that ratings are low? Last time I checked, he never promised to be the savior of the NBA. He just promised to play hard and try to win games.

So far, he's kept his promises.

[ambchang]

Thank you TD for helping me out. It is hard to flush things out when you have someone who is twisting my words and not seeing my original argument.

ANd yet not once was the media mentioned in the original quote.


Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.

Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble!

BTW, this is called bailing out, not hypocrisy.

[Zig]

OK, I lied. I have to respond to this.

Are you saying that respect for LeBron is actually hurting the Spurs?

Complete and utter bullshit. One has nothing to do with the other.

To bring this argument full circle:

Are we to blame LeBron for the media blitz? Is it his fault that ratings are low? Last time I checked, he never promised to be the savior of the NBA. He just promised to play hard and try to win games.

So far, he's kept his promises.See ambchang...This was directed toward TD - I will not be responding to this post. Netiquette!

[td4mvp3]

OK, I lied. I have to respond to this.

Are you saying that respect for LeBron is actually hurting the Spurs?

Complete and utter bullshit. One has nothing to do with the other.

To bring this argument full circle:

Are we to blame LeBron for the media blitz? Is it his fault that ratings are low? Last time I checked, he never promised to be the savior of the NBA. He just promised to play hard and try to win games.

So far, he's kept his promises.
no, respect for lebron is fine, but misguided respect based on some molded perception is not. had the guy just said "yeah, i got fouled but it didn't get called, them's the breaks. it's a good learning experience and sometimes you just don't get calls" then fine, he's a mature classy guy. but that nonsense about incidental contact required you to disbelieve your own eyes. it was not incidental, it was a foul. but that response was once carefully constructed before lebron stepped out on the stage, crafted to provide the least bit of acknowledgement to bowen. the fact that no one has called lebron on that points to the media facilitating that message and enabling the spin. that exact habit of enabling such scripted messages (lebron's classy for not calling a foul a foul, the spurs are boring for not doing alley oops all the time but still being phoenix in uptempo games, gino's a flopper despite getting hammered going to the rim) continues to keep the limelight off the spurs and their accomplishments. this is less about lebron and more about the media image of lebron.

[td4mvp3]

OK, I lied. I have to respond to this.

Are you saying that respect for LeBron is actually hurting the Spurs?

Complete and utter bullshit. One has nothing to do with the other.

To bring this argument full circle:

Are we to blame LeBron for the media blitz? Is it his fault that ratings are low? Last time I checked, he never promised to be the savior of the NBA. He just promised to play hard and try to win games.

So far, he's kept his promises.
and this is exactly my point. you have analysts saying people shouldn't expect lebron to be michael jordan ... while ignoring the fact that the only people comparing lebron to jordan are fellow analysts. believing lebron's postgame response as anything other than well-crafted one-upmanship meant to damn with faint praise is akin to thinking lebron is all-hype because he didn't deliver on promises he never made.

[ambchang]

See ambchang...This was directed toward TD - I will not be responding to this post. Netiquette!
Oh no, I am responding to his post even though you are quoting MadDog73, but addressing me.
If I were to tell you that responding to posts with quotes of someone else is wrong, then proceed to do that, then it would be hypocrisy, but then I didn't.
Also, by your logic, there would be no possibility of more than one person in the same conversation after a person replied. For example
A starts thread
B replied.
A replied B (At this point, you have ruled out C joining the conversation)
so on and so forth.
This is about the stupidest thing I have heard to day, anybody who doesn't agree with me is on crack.

[MadDog73]

this is less about lebron and more about the media image of lebron.


I'll agree with you there.

The media sucks, I guess, whether you're LeBron or the Spurs.


(oh, and Zig please don't take my ignoring you as some sign of "netiquette". I just don't see the point in responding. But, for the record, anyone can comment on anything.)

[Zig]

(oh, and Zig please don't take my ignoring you some sign of "netiquette". I just don't see the point in responding. But, for the record, anyone can comment on anything.)Anyone can also take a shit in a flowerbed....That doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[Zig]

Oh no, I am responding to his post even though you are quoting MadDog73, but addressing me.
If I were to tell you that responding to posts with quotes of someone else is wrong, then proceed to do that, then it would be hypocrisy, but then I didn't.
Also, by your logic, there would be no possibility of more than one person in the same conversation after a person replied. For example
A starts thread
B replied.
A replied B (At this point, you have ruled out C joining the conversation)
so on and so forth.
This is about the stupidest thing I have heard to day, anybody who doesn't agree with me is on crack.Utter Babble.

[MadDog73]

Anyone can also take a shit in a flowerbed....That doesn't make it the right thing to do.
:rolleyes

Like that's even close to the same thing. Boy, are you stupid.

Just admit your orginal post is wrong, and move on. This hole your digging is getting deeper and deeper...


(damn. I broke my promise)
:madrun

[ambchang]

Anyone can also take a shit in a flowerbed....That doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Anyone can take a leisure walk on the street, so if anything has any shred of commonality, it must make them equal. The next time I see someone strolling down the street, I will tell them this is equivalent to taking a shit in a flowerbed because anyone can do either. Another brilliant take by the genius.
BTW, I responded to a message you have to MadDog73, these are your rules, not mine.

[MadDog73]

Oh no, I am responding to his post even though you are quoting MadDog73, but addressing me.
If I were to tell you that responding to posts with quotes of someone else is wrong, then proceed to do that, then it would be hypocrisy, but then I didn't.
Also, by your logic, there would be no possibility of more than one person in the same conversation after a person replied. For example
A starts thread
B replied.
A replied B (At this point, you have ruled out C joining the conversation)
so on and so forth.
This is about the stupidest thing I have heard to day, anybody who doesn't agree with me is on crack.

ambchang is right on. If "netiquette" existed as Zig implies, then there would be no point in message boards.

We might as well be PMing.

[Zig]

:rolleyes

Like that's even close to the same thing. Boy, are you stupid.

Just admit your orginal post is wrong, and move on. This hole your digging is getting deeper and deeper...


(damn. I broke my promise)
:madrunMy initial quote is MY OPINION. I stand by MY OPINION. You and ambWANG have YOUR opinions.

[MadDog73]

My initial quote is MY OPINION. I stand by MY OPINION. You and ambWANG have YOUR opinions.

:wtf And IMO, your opinion is wrong.

Boy, this is fun. I can do this all day.

[ambchang]

Utter Babble.
Would you think simply posting SOMETHING to a post without addressing any of the points make you look smart?
By saying "Utter Babble" without explaining how it makes sense to have your so-called "netiquette" and not destroy the flow of open ideas in a public forum, you just admitted that you ran out of points.
As a reminder, you can't even win an argument from a guy without a college diploma.

[Zig]

:wtf And IMO, your opinion is wrong.

Boy, this is fun. I can do this all day.Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Please prove mine wrong and yours correct with positive knowledge or proof. If you can do that sucessfully (which you will not be able to do), I will agree that my opinion is wrong. Even though opinions cant be wrong by definition.

[ambchang]

My initial quote is MY OPINION. I stand by MY OPINION. You and ambWANG have YOUR opinions.
Wow! After 5 pages, we finally agreed that your first post is your opinion, and not some facts because it spew out of your keyboard.
Now can we take the next step and rehabilitate you so that you can admit to errors, such as the spelling and meaning of hypocrisy/hypocrite, or that Lebron James' postgame actions did not show immaturity or classlessness?

[Zig]

Would you think simply posting SOMETHING to a post without addressing any of the points make you look smart?
By saying "Utter Babble" without explaining how it makes sense to have your so-called "netiquette" and not destroy the flow of open ideas in a public forum, you just admitted that you ran out of points.
As a reminder, you can't even win an argument from a guy without a college diploma.Not at all - you just grew tiresome. There are plenty of people who have posted in this thread that agree that LeBron(MadDog) was not sincere and is not humble. You will not change my opinion and you will not come down from LeBron's(MadDog) sack. TD said it correctly. It was a well crafted response that LeBron(MadDog) gave. End of story.

[ambchang]

Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Please prove mine wrong and yours correct with positive knowledge or proof. If you can do that sucessfully (which you will not be able to do), I will agree that my opinion is wrong. Even though opinions cant be wrong by definition.
It is my opinion that you are a dumbass.
Please prove mine wrong with positive knowledge or proof. If you can do that sucessfully (which you will not be able to do), I will agree that my opinion is wrong. Even though opinions cant be wrong by definition

[MadDog73]

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself.

This is demonstrable false. Talking to an official is not "making a spectacle." The game was over, so there is no delay of game or any other nonsense. Players can plead their case to refs on the court and do it all the time.



Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble! :rolleyes

My real issue. Class and maturity have nothing to do with tatoos.

You have not proven that LeBron has no class or maturity. Therefore, your argument fails.

(I never argued that LeBron is humble, and in fact have recommended you make that your sole argument. At least then, you have a chance of proving something).

[RandomGuy]

I thought Lebron just got tagged for doing something he has been doing the whole series.

Anyone else notice how often his elbows just "happened" to smack a Spur in the face?

I don't think it was much of a coinicidence.

[ambchang]

Not at all - you just grew tiresome. There are plenty of people who have posted in this thread that agree that LeBron(MadDog) was not sincere and is not humble. You will not change my opinion and you will not come down from LeBron's(MadDog) sack. TD said it correctly. It was a well crafted response that LeBron(MadDog) gave. End of story.
So go ahead and explain to me your netiquette and how it makes sense on a public forum, or what hypocrisy means.
There are also plenty of people in this forum that disagreed with you, how does what other people think make something right and others wrong. Many people in the Suns board also agree that Bowen is dirty and Amare and Diaw should not have been suspended, does it make it right?
TD only said something that makes sense to all and you try to bail out on his well thought-out post, which is something you are incapable of.

[Zig]

Wow! After 5 pages, we finally agreed that your first post is your opinion, and not some facts because it spew out of your keyboard.
Now can we take the next step and rehabilitate you so that you can admit to errors, such as the spelling and meaning of hypocrisy/hypocrite, or that Lebron James' postgame actions did not show immaturity or classlessness?It is a fact that Danny Ferry put the skids on any whining.

MY OPINION is that the way LeBron(MadDog) spoke those words in the PC was sarcastic.
It is MY OPINION that having a tatoo of chosen1 is immature and cocky
It is MY OPINION that he blew up at Delaney
It is MY OPINION that it was a spectacle - as well as it appears the media feels the same way because they continue to show it over and over.
It is MY OPINION that mature, classy players do not need tatoos stating that they are the chosen1 if they really are the chosen1

[MadDog73]

It is a fact that Danny Ferry put the skids on any whining.

MY OPINION is that the way LeBron(MadDog) spoke those words in the PC was sarcastic.
It is MY OPINION that having a tatoo of chosen1 is immature and cocky
It is MY OPINION that he blew up at Delaney
It is MY OPINION that it was a spectacle - as well as it appears the media feels the same way because they continue to show it over and over.
It is MY OPINION that mature, classy players do not need tatoos stating that they are the chosen1 if they really are the chosen1



So, IYO, LeBron is classless, immature and prideful.

What does that have anything to do with his PC?

And, who exactly are the "lambs" that dare challenge your opinion?

[coopdogg3]

It is a fact that Danny Ferry put the skids on any whining.

MY OPINION is that the way LeBron(MadDog) spoke those words in the PC was sarcastic.
It is MY OPINION that having a tatoo of chosen1 is immature and cocky
It is MY OPINION that he blew up at Delaney
It is MY OPINION that it was a spectacle - as well as it appears the media feels the same way because they continue to show it over and over.
It is MY OPINION that mature, classy players do not need tatoos stating that they are the chosen1 if they really are the chosen1


It is REPORTED (not fact) that Ferry put the skids on the whining, the 2 can be different. It also shows maturity to listen to your coaches. Even if Ferry and Brown told the team "no excuses", LeBron still chose to listen to them, still chose to call it "incidental contact" (I doubt anyone told Lebron to say that), and he has chosen to give a lot of credit to the Spurs (in a way that Phoenix never did.)

For making those CHOICES I find Lebron to be a class act, showing maturity.

How in God's name you're finding his discussion with Delaney a "spectacle" is completely beyond me. He had an OBVIOUS grief - he was fouled. He was very composed, said his piece - watch it again, I don't think his discussion lasted longer than 30 seconds. And this is the NBA Finals for crying out loud. Not some regular season game (compared to Charles Barkley when Phoenix lost to New York, Charles lept over the table and kept on screaming at the refs as they were trying to leave - he got suspended for that of course). How he handled himself so well is beyond me. I guarantee if the roles were reversed Ginobli, Pop, or Duncan would not be nearly so composed.

So I give Lebron his props.

This is seriously one of the lamest threads I've ever seen. I can't believe it has so many pages, and I can't believe I'm adding to it. But life is irony I suppose.

[Zig]

So, IYO, LeBron is classless, immature and prideful.

What does that have anything to do with his PC?

And, who exactly are the "lambs" that dare challenge your opinion?Here is my initial post -

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.

Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble! :rolleyesIt is really quite simple. It is MY OPINION that having a well crafted response given to you by Danny Ferry does not show maturity and humility after you have just made (IN MY OPINION) a spectacle with Delaney.

[coopdogg3]

So now it's fact that Lebron was given a well-crafted reply from Danny Ferry?? That fact keeps on growing.

[Zig]

I It also shows maturity to listen to your coaches.
My son is 6 and listens to his coach's every word. He is far from mature.

[Zig]

So now it's fact that Lebron was given a well-crafted reply from Danny Ferry?? That fact keeps on growing.

general manager Danny Ferry and his assistant Lance Blanks took control of the situation, demanding from everyone that no excuses would be made. Hence, the quote from both Mike Brown and LeBron James: "We're a no-excuses team.
Sounds like a fact to me.

[MadDog73]

This is seriously one of the lamest threads I've ever seen. I can't believe it has so many pages, and I can't believe I'm adding to it. But life is irony I suppose.


It's like a car wreck. I can't look away...

Then again, this is about as sensible as arguing with a brick. :drunk

[coopdogg3]

My son is 6 and listens to his coach's every word. He is far from mature.

But that demonstrates that your child is on his way to becoming mature. It's mature to listen to your elders, even if you disagree. If your son is 26, and still listening to his coaches - that's a sign of maturity.

Anybody can boss around a 6 year-old (I have 10 nieces and nephews, all under the age of 10), but you can't do that to most 22-year olds. Choice, free will, all that. Lebron's choice (as an adult) to listen to his coaches demonstrates maturity in a way that your 6-year old can't match.

[MadDog73]

My son is 6 and listens to his coach's every word. He is far from mature.


You have a son?

Jesus, now you have me scared. Please teach him that this is not how to present an argument.

[Zig]

But that demonstrates that your child is on his way to becoming mature. It's mature to listen to your elders, even if you disagree. If your son is 26, and still listening to his coaches - that's a sign of maturity.

Anybody can boss around a 6 year-old (I have 10 nieces and nephews, all under the age of 10), but you can't do that to most 22-year olds. Choice, free will, all that. Lebron's choice (as an adult) to listen to his coaches demonstrates maturity in a way that your 6-year old can't match.I dont know that I agree. I listen to my boss because I don't want to lose my job. I see that as a sign of intelligence not maturity.

[MadDog73]

BTW, is it a fact that Ferry presented the speech to LeBron?

Was it typed up or on posterboard?

[coopdogg3]

Sounds like a fact to me.


That is a REPORTED fact. If there was videotape showing Ferry and Brown doing this, as well as giving Lebron is "well-crafted reply" - than that becomes fact. Still, even if it were true, Lebron didn't have to listen, but he chose to. That speaks well of him.

[MadDog73]

I dont know that I agree. I listen to my boss because I don't want to lose my job. I see that as a sign of intelligence not maturity.

It's a sign of both.

Unless you have another job lined up, it would be immature to lose your job, especially with a 6 year old to care for.

[Zig]

That is a REPORTED fact. If there was videotape showing Ferry and Brown doing this, as well as giving Lebron is "well-crafted reply" - than that becomes fact. Still, even if it were true, Lebron didn't have to listen, but he chose to. That speaks well of him.I never said he wasn't intelligent.

[MadDog73]

Zig, can you define "maturity" for me?

I can't help but think it doesn't mean what you think it means.

[coopdogg3]

I dont know that I agree. I listen to my boss because I don't want to lose my job. I see that as a sign of intelligence not maturity.


Ummm, nope. Sorry, wrong again. Because Lebron is the Cavaliers. If he didn't want to listen there is 0% chance of him losing his job. He has the power, and there's no mistake about that. The Cavs will do whatever it takes to keep Lebron happy. The fact that he chose to listen to his coaches, chose to give all the credit to the Spurs speaks well of him. Because Lebron does not have to listen to anybody on that team. Kinda like Duncan, Duncan can do whatever he wants (with no chance of losing his job or his guaranteed contract) but he chooses to listen to Pop. That speaks well of Duncan. There's a lot of players in the NBA that are not coachable. Lebron is. Or at least he appears to be so far.

[coopdogg3]

I never said he wasn't intelligent.


I never said you said he was dumb. What the heck are you even talking about now? I never even mentioned intelligence.

[coopdogg3]

Zig, can you define "maturity" for me?

I can't help but think it doesn't mean what you think it means.


Zig not know what "maturity" means?? That's inconceivable!!

[T Park]

I don't get this hate for Lebron.

I don't get the hate at all....

[Zig]

Zig, can you define "maturity" for me?

I can't help but think it doesn't mean what you think it means.Maturity - state of being mature; full development
Mature - fully developed in body or mind, as a person

Strike 1 and 2 - LeBron(MadDog) is neither. Is he on the right track...maybe..

[Zig]

I don't get this hate for Lebron.

I don't get the hate at all....Leaving now...but there is no hate for LeBron(MadDog). I am just pointing out that I feel he is not humble and not mature yet.

He is a good player that needs many more years to grow up and be the best player/person he can be.

ZIG OUT!

[MadDog73]

Maturity - state of being mature; full development

LeBron is fully mature physically.



Mature - fully developed in body or mind, as a person

This is more subjective. I think his responses show a maturity in mind. Obviously, you don't.

I guess all these people are the "lambs" you refer to?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1783515&posted=1#post1783515

[cole]

lebron is a little cocky. you really have to have that kind of swagger to deal with the pressure he's under.

i still don't see what he did wrong.

[td4mvp3]

lebron is a little cocky. you really have to have that kind of swagger to deal with the pressure he's under.

i still don't see what he did wrong.
it wasn't what he did wrong but what the media is turning it into. this is from espn's truehoop:


Cavaliers: Still No Excuses

June 13, 2007 1:16 AM


You have seen the replay in slow motion. Unless my eyes are lying to me, Bruce Bowen not only fouled LeBron James on the final play of the game. He intentionally fouled him, which makes sense, with the Spurs up three and eager to give up two free throws to a poor free throw shooting team. (The trick was to foul him before he was shooting -- which is debatable, in this case. Not worth going there right now. Especially as, among journalists, the story is that even if he got three free throws, James likely would have missed at least one of them.)

But when it's a three-point game, with the clock running out, and there's a big foul on the big star, that's supposed to be called. Right?

And if history is any guide, this series is essentially over. So, surely, this is the time when the Cleveland Cavaliers will ring up some fines from the league and let loose on the referees, right?

Wrong.

LeBron James met the media after the game, and this is what happened:

How did you feel about what happened on the final play?
On the three pointer? We had to go for a three, we were down three points. You know, it went in and it came out.

To follow up, what about the push in the back from Bruce?
No, incidental contact.

Excuse me?
Incidental contact. It didn't affect my shot. I had a good look at it and I missed.

Is he lying? I suspect he is, in an honorable way.
there is no honorable way to lie and there is an honest way to answer the question without whining about it. the media allows the lie and perpetuates the myth of the cavs giving "no excuses." excuses carries a negative connotation, as though offering some weak defense for boneheaded action. but having "no excuses" shouldn't be twisted into being classy or heroic when it omits the truth. the omission points to the continued perception being formed of lebron as a non-whiner, a guy the refs shouldn't be too quick to dismiss. maybe next time the calls go more his way because everyone knows lebron doesn't whine about any old thing. we have proof in this postgame interview ... don't we?

[ambchang]

It is a fact that Danny Ferry put the skids on any whining.

MY OPINION is that the way LeBron(MadDog) spoke those words in the PC was sarcastic.
It is MY OPINION that having a tatoo of chosen1 is immature and cocky
It is MY OPINION that he blew up at Delaney
It is MY OPINION that it was a spectacle - as well as it appears the media feels the same way because they continue to show it over and over.
It is MY OPINION that mature, classy players do not need tatoos stating that they are the chosen1 if they really are the chosen1


So it being your opinion leads to what? That there is no way to argue your points?

MY OPINION is that the way LeBron(MadDog) spoke those words in the PC was NOT sarcastic.
It is MY OPINION that having a tatoo of chosen1 is NOT immature and cocky
It is MY OPINION that he DID NOT blew up at Delaney
It is MY OPINION that it was NOT a spectacle.
It is MY OPINION that you CANNOT judge a person's maturity and class based on tattoos


Lastly, you jumping on me about netiquette, while totally ignoring TD4MVP jumping into the conversation because his point of view helps bail you out is the very definition of hypocrisy, Mr. can't-spell-to-save-his-life-grammar-picking-hypocritical-college-boy.

[ambchang]

It is REPORTED (not fact) that Ferry put the skids on the whining, the 2 can be different. It also shows maturity to listen to your coaches. Even if Ferry and Brown told the team "no excuses", LeBron still chose to listen to them, still chose to call it "incidental contact" (I doubt anyone told Lebron to say that), and he has chosen to give a lot of credit to the Spurs (in a way that Phoenix never did.)

For making those CHOICES I find Lebron to be a class act, showing maturity.

How in God's name you're finding his discussion with Delaney a "spectacle" is completely beyond me. He had an OBVIOUS grief - he was fouled. He was very composed, said his piece - watch it again, I don't think his discussion lasted longer than 30 seconds. And this is the NBA Finals for crying out loud. Not some regular season game (compared to Charles Barkley when Phoenix lost to New York, Charles lept over the table and kept on screaming at the refs as they were trying to leave - he got suspended for that of course). How he handled himself so well is beyond me. I guarantee if the roles were reversed Ginobli, Pop, or Duncan would not be nearly so composed.

So I give Lebron his props.

This is seriously one of the lamest threads I've ever seen. I can't believe it has so many pages, and I can't believe I'm adding to it. But life is irony I suppose.
Don't do this, he will accuse you of breaking netiquette.

[ambchang]

I dont know that I agree. I listen to my boss because I don't want to lose my job. I see that as a sign of intelligence not maturity.
Is that what kind of job a college education gets you these days?
My boss listens to my concerns and suggestions even when I challenge his thoughts, because that is how you get good work done, but what do I know? I don't even have a college diploma.

[UV Ray]

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.

Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble! :rolleyes

The manlove fest with LBJ's post game conference is nothing more that an indirect attack on Suns fans whom they perceive as having no right to complain about the league's interpretation of a rule that made San Antonio's path to the NBA Championship the easiest in NBA history and in effect creating the asterisk that, no matter what a Spurs fan will tell you, cheapens their accomplishment and ultimately lessens their enjoyment of a fourth* championship.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao @ sunfan thinking it's all about him.

I'll make a direct attack on you if it will make you feel better.

You're a whiny bitch. No matter what you say.

[UV Ray]

:lmao @ sunfan thinking it's all about him.

I'll make a direct attack on you if it will make you feel better.

You're a whiny bitch. No matter what you say.


:lmao

The truth hurts!

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

What hurts? I feel great. The truth is the Spurs are going to win the championship. That must hurt you.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The manlove fest with LBJ's post game conference is nothing more that an indirect attack on Suns fans whom they perceive as having no right to complain about the league's interpretation of a rule that made San Anotonio's path to the NBA Championsip the easiest in NBA history and in effect creating the asterisk that, no matter what a Spurs fan will tell you, cheapens their accomplishment and ultimately lessens their enjoyment of a fourth* championship.

How cute, the * talk.

Spurs win 2007 NBA Championship *

* I found something stupid to bitch about after they handed my team its ass.

[UV Ray]

The truth is the Spurs are going to win the championship.

The truth is the Spurs are going to win the championship*.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol They say tears are salty, but sunfan's taste so sweet.



:cry

[UV Ray]

:lol They say tears are salty, but sunfan's taste so sweet.



:cry

Tears? :lol

I can't wait for the Spurs fourth win and the 2007 championship*. :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

So sweet. I have to brush my teeth after reading sunfan posts.

[T Park]

hilarious how suns fan can't move on.

So who does Suns fan blame game 1 on?

Stern Also?

[Johnny RIngo]

The manlove fest with LBJ's post game conference is nothing more that an indirect attack on Suns fans whom they perceive as having no right to complain about the league's interpretation of a rule that made San Anotonio's path to the NBA Championsip the easiest in NBA history and in effect creating the asterisk that, no matter what a Spurs fan will tell you, cheapens their accomplishment and ultimately lessens their enjoyment of a fourth* championship.

There's nothing that's shown the Suns can play championship level basketball. They've received the easiest first round opponent in back to back years with the Lakers...a team that's surprisingly worse defensively than the Suns. Had they received Denver, Houston, Utah, etc in the first round the Suns would be eliminated in 6 or 7 games and all the homers on Arizonafagfans.com would be busy bitching about those teams instead of the Spurs.

The Cavs players seem to have class which is why they don't bother making excuses like Steve Trash and Amare Stoudewhiner. If Ewing and the Knicks got burned by the same rule in 1997 there's no reason why Dumb(Diaw) and Dumber(Amare) shouldn't be penalized as well.

I could understand Steve Trash's frustration though. He knows deep down that he didn't deserve those two MVPs and he wants some validation for 'em by reaching the Finals. Shaq already called him out on it and most NBA fans are already labeling Nash the worst MVP winner in the last few decades. Stevie Boy also knows that the Suns window is closing fast with the Western Conference getting better and better every year with team's focusing more on defense:

-The Mavs can't choke every year.
-The Jazz are a young core with a PG and PF that can burn Trash and Stoudewhiner with ease. Not to mention a great coach in Sloan.
-The Nuggets are one or two pieces away from being a contender. AI is too fast and skilled for Nash's weakass defense and Carmelo will burn Raja everytime. Amare gets abused by the Nene/Camby/KMart frontcourt. I see the Nuggets eliminating the Suns in 5 games if they meet in the playoffs next year.
-Lakers: Kobe+JO=nightmare for the Suns. Raja Bell's clotheslines and dirty tactics won't save em from this combo. PJ coaches circles around that used car salesman D'Antoni.
-Not to mention the arrival of Oden/Durant in the West plus the salary cap hell that will force the eventual implosion of the Suns.

[UV Ray]

There's nothing that's shown the Suns can play championship level basketball. They've received the easiest first round opponent in back to back years with the Lakers...a team that's surprisingly worse defensively than the Suns. Had they received Denver, Houston, Utah, etc in the first round the Suns would be eliminated in 6 or 7 games and all the homers on Arizonafagfans.com would be busy bitching about those teams instead of the Spurs.

The Cavs players seem to have class which is why they don't bother making excuses like Steve Trash and Amare Stoudewhiner. If Ewing and the Knicks got burned by the same rule in 1997 there's no reason why Dumb(Diaw) and Dumber(Amare) shouldn't be penalized as well.

I could understand Steve Trash's frustration though. He knows deep down that he didn't deserve those two MVPs and he wants some validation for 'em by reaching the Finals. Shaq already called him out on it and most NBA fans are already labeling Nash the worst MVP winner in the last few decades. Stevie Boy also knows that the Suns window is closing fast with the Western Conference getting better and better every year with team's focusing more on defense:

-The Mavs can't choke every year.
-The Jazz are a young core with a PG and PF that can burn Trash and Stoudewhiner with ease. Not to mention a great coach in Sloan.
-The Nuggets are one or two pieces away from being a contender. AI is too fast and skilled for Nash's weakass defense and Carmelo will burn Raja everytime. Amare gets abused by the Nene/Camby/KMart frontcourt. I see the Nuggets eliminating the Suns in 5 games if they meet in the playoffs next year.
-Lakers: Kobe+JO=nightmare for the Suns. Raja Bell's clotheslines and dirty tactics won't save em from this combo. PJ coaches circles around that used car salesman D'Antoni.
-Not to mention the arrival of Oden/Durant in the West plus the salary cap hell that will force the eventual implosion of the Suns.

I appreciate the time and effort you put into your post, but you neither agreed with or refuted anything that was stated.

[Extra Stout]

The truth is the Spurs are going to win the championship*.
Is Phoenix going to have a pretend parade for the Suns?

[ChumpDumper]

sunfan has no right to bitch about the proper interpretation of the bench rule.

Consider yourself refuted.

[Johnny RIngo]

I appreciate the time and effort you put into your post, but you neither agreed with or refuted anything that was stated.

I already stated that Ewing and the Knicks were burned by the same rule in '97. It would be biased and unfair to the Knicks if the Suns were given a free pass on the rules just because they're the flavor of the month. If you fuck up you have to face the consequences. That seems to be something Steve Trash, Amare Stoudewhiner, and the Suns fanbase have trouble comprehending.

[UV Ray]

sunfan has no right to bitch about the proper interpretation of the bench rule.

Consider yourself refuted.

I have the right (moderator willing) to protest in a public format the proper interpretation of the bench rule.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa179/xuy675/Bench-03.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Except you haven't done anything to supprt your "case."

Your entire argument is that the rule should not apply to your team.

That's not a protest. That's a whine.

And you have no rights in someone else's forum.

[Johnny RIngo]

Is Phoenix going to have a pretend parade for the Suns?

Might as well. It's not like their team's ever going to win it for them.

[UV Ray]

Except you haven't done anything to supprt your "case."

Your entire argument is that the rule should not apply to your team.

That's not a protest. That's a whine.

And you have no rights in someone else's forum.

Whine, protest? Semantics determined by which side of the issue you're on.

Also, it was qualified with "moderator willing".

[ChumpDumper]

http://web.knoxnews.com/slideshows/0326bristol/01.jpg
sunfan finds the perfect seat to witness the 2007 "Real NBA Championship" victory parade.

[danger]

Zig,

Go get a chosen1 tattoo, it will make you feel better.

[UV Ray]

http://web.knoxnews.com/slideshows/0326bristol/01.jpg
sunfan finds the perfect seat to witness the 2007 "Real NBA Championship" victory parade.
:rolleyes You can't make it* go away by attacking the messenger.

[ChumpDumper]

If you can convince me why the NBA rules shouldn't apply to your team just to make up for the stupidity of two of its players.... :rolleyes

[UV Ray]

If you can convince me why the NBA rules shouldn't apply to your team just to make up for the stupidity of two of its players.... :rolleyes
You have already convinced me that you will not be convinced.

[Extra Stout]

:rolleyes You can't make it* go away by attacking the messenger.
Sun fan can't have any credibility on the issue. Knick fans swore that the Bulls' titles were tainted as well.

[ChumpDumper]

You have already convinced me that you will not be convinced.You haven't even tried because you know how ridiculous your argument is.

[UV Ray]

Sun fan can't have any credibility on the issue. Knick fans swore that the Bulls' titles were tainted as well.
If that is true then we must also dismiss your statement for lack of credibility.

[UV Ray]

You haven't even tried because you know how ridiculous your argument is.
We already had this argument and you arbitrarily decided that you won.
:lol

[ChumpDumper]

No, you never gave a valid reason why the NBA rules shouldn't apply to your team to make up for the stupidity of two of its players.

We're all here now. Why are you holding back your mod-given right to protest?

[UV Ray]

No, you never gave a valid reason why the NBA rules shouldn't apply to your team to make up for the stupidity of two of its players.
My position was that the rule was and is subject to interpretation based on precedent and that its interpretation was to some degree arbitrary and not in the interest of the spirit of the rule.

[ChumpDumper]

Could you be more specific and tell us why the rule should not apply to your team to make up for the stupidity of two of its players?

[UV Ray]

Could you be more specific and tell us why the rule should not apply to your team to make up for the stupidity of two of its players?

No because the rule was never meant to make up for the stupidity of players.

[Spurminator]

My position was that the rule was and is subject to interpretation based on precedent


Based on what precedent?

[ChumpDumper]

No because the rule was never meant to make up for the stupidity of players.But your team's players were stupid and you don't want the rule to apply to them to make up for their stupidity.

[UV Ray]

Based on what precedent?
Suspensions have been reduced or not forthcoming in situations where violations have occurred.

[Spurs16212]

He was just CLEARLY fouled at the end of a crucial game on a play that would've sent him to the line to tie it up and give his team a chance to win....wouldn't YOU be pissed if you were in his shoes?

And I completely disagree that he was "blowing up" at Delaney....he was animated, but not disrespectful...and he had reason to be.

I'm not going to bash LeBron for his initial reaction and I'm not going to assume that he had to be pulled aside to be reminded to issue the standard "it didn't decide the game" speech. Notice he also didn't throw his teammates (Varajao with that rediculous 4th qtr play, and Boobie with his 1-10 night) under the bus as well.

Bottom Line: He DID show some class and maturity.




I do not think he would have shot three free throws on that Bruce Bowen foul. If Delaney would have called the foul, it would have been on the floor and LeBron would have gotten two shots. They did not catch the break and LeBron missed his opportunity to tie the game with a three point shot. It was a good look that did not go in which explains the story of their night (3-19 from three point range...)

They have no one to blame but themselves. The National Media was on Mike Brown to give additional minutes or the starting spot to Daniel Gibson for his performance against Detroit and the first two games against San Antonio and how did he respond when he got the opportunity.... 1 for 10 shooting and only 2 points. He made Mike Brown look bad in making that decision.

Cleveland needs to make some tweaks in their offseason by maybe adding a proven shooter on the team.....

As for LeBrons press conference.... I believe the other individuals in that he was covering up his true feelings..... They are down 2-0 and on the verge of going down 3-0 and you are fouled in a tight ball game and the call was not made, that is going to piss off a player.... He went off on Delaney about the foul and then to be calm in the press conference and say incidental contact.... There was nothing incidental in what Bruce was trying to do.... LeBron knew that and I believe the official knew that but failed to call it. LeBron was wanting to avoid a fine from the league for a botched call....

[Spurminator]

Suspensions have been reduced or not forthcoming in situations where violations have occurred.


Can you be more specific?

[ChumpDumper]

Can you be more specific?Some other Sun should have beat up Horry in the tunnel.

[Spurminator]

I'm legitimately interested to hear of a specific incident where a player left the bench during an altercation in the last 10 years and it was determined no suspension was warranted.

Surely Sun Fan has an entire list of links compiled during weeks of winning online debates on the subject.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm legitimately interested in hearing why all this whining couldn't have been avoided just by those two players' staying near the bench.

[UV Ray]

Can you be more specific?

Duncan in the same game (subject to interpretation) and a pre-season game that I do not have a link for but I'm sure someone does. Fines and suspensions have been reduced numerous times in regular season games for much more. I do not argue that the Spurs fans don't have the right to feel that the rule should be interpreted as it was. My point is that the satisfaction gained by such an easy path to a championship* can't be as satisfying as if there had been no suspensions.

[ChumpDumper]

Duncan in the same game (subject to interpretation):lmao When the Sun player was running up the court and Elson was complaining to the official? Other than that, you can't be more specific at all. Some protest. Rosa Parks would be proud.
My point is that the satisfaction gained by such an easy path to a championship* can't be as satisfying as if there had been no suspensions.It's actually more satisfying to be able to win and watch other fans whine.

[ZStomp]

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.

Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble! :rolleyes


I think he showed his maturity. Of course he was 'blowing' up at Delaney at the end of the game...it's called emotion.

he could have pulled a Stoudemire but he didn't.

Good job.

[UV Ray]

I think he showed his maturity. Of course he was 'blowing' up at Delaney at the end of the game...it's called emotion.

he could have pulled a Stoudemire but he didn't.

Good job.

LeBron had better handlers.

[Spurminator]

Duncan in the same game (subject to interpretation)

Um, the only thing that was subject to interpretation there was the "altercation." Are you suggesting there was no altercation after the Horry foul?


and a pre-season game that I do not have a link for but I'm sure someone does.


Then why mention it?


Fines and suspensions have been reduced numerous times in regular season games for much more.

When has a one game suspension ever been reduced?



Where is this precedent you promised us??? I can't believe you're this unprepared!!

[UV Ray]

:lmao When the Sun player was running up the court and Elson was complaining to the official? Other than that, you can't be more specific at all. Some protest. Rosa Parks would be proud.It's actually more satisfying to be able to win and watch other fans whine.


The only whine I'm hearing is from needy Spurs fans not getting enough love. :baby

[ChumpDumper]

The only whine I'm hearing is from needy Spurs fans not getting enough love. :babyYou aren't listening to yourself then. :cry

Seriously, why are you here?

[UV Ray]

Um, the only thing that was subject to interpretation there was the "altercation." Are you suggesting there was no altercation after the Horry foul?




Then why mention it?



When has a one game suspension ever been reduced?



Where is this precedent you promised us??? I can't believe you're this unprepared!!




Christie suspended two games for fight
ESPN.com news services

Rick Fox

Fox

Doug Christie

Christie

NEW YORK -- Rick Fox was suspended for six games and Doug Christie got a two-game ban for their roles in a bench-clearing fight during a Lakers-Kings exhibition game.

In Monday's surprise ruling, the NBA did not suspend any members of the Kings for leaving the bench during the brawl



Let the rationalizations and excuses begin!

[ChumpDumper]

Their reasoning for the nonsuspensions in that preseason game: the altercation was in the tunnel and not on the floor.

Were Horry, et.al., in the tunnel so that exception could be invoked to make up for the stupidity of Amare and Boris?

If they were all in the tunnel fighting, then they should have expected to not be suspeneded.

[UV Ray]

Their reasoning for the nonsuspensions in that preseason game: the altercation was in the tunnel and not on the floor.

Were Horry, et.al., in the tunnel so that exception could be invoked to make up for the stupidity of Amare and Boris?

Be honest with yourself. The ruling was an interpretation.

[ChumpDumper]

Be honest with yourself. The ruling was an interpretation.Be honest with yourself. The players weren't fighting in the tunnel.

[UV Ray]

Be honest with yourself. The players weren't fighting in the tunnel.
I thought the term was altercation.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you say players were altercating?

Fox was fighting. I don't know if Doug was fighting or his wife was fighting for him.

[UV Ray]

Be honest with yourself. The players weren't fighting in the tunnel.

I guess they weren't "altercating". Yeah that's the ticket. Horseshit. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

That was a fight. Fights are altercations. Altercations are not necessarily fights. I know big words are tough for you, just like the concept that rules should apply to your team.

If you use "altercating" in a sentence, that's your issue.

[UV Ray]

That was a fight. Fights are altercations. Altercations are not necessarily fights. I know big words are tough for you, just like the concept that rules should apply to your team.

If you use "altercating" in a sentence, that's your issue.

The rule was subject to interpretation. You can agree or disagree that the interpretation was favorable or unfavorable. I could care less. The bottom line is as follows:

The manlove fest with LBJ's post game conference is nothing more that an indirect attack on Suns fans whom they perceive as having no right to complain about the league's interpretation of a rule that made San Antonio's path to the NBA Championship the easiest in NBA history and in effect creating the asterisk that, no matter what a Spurs fan will tell you, cheapens their accomplishment and ultimately lessens their enjoyment of a fourth* championship.

[Spurminator]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980CE5DA153FF93AA15753C1A9649C8B 63


PLUS: PRO BASKETBALL; Fox's Suspension Is For Six Games

Published: October 29, 2002

Rick Fox was suspended for six games, Doug Christie was banished for two, and every member of the Sacramento Kings who left the bench during a fight with the Los Angeles Lakers got off scot-free.

In a surprising ruling yesterday by the N.B.A. vice president Stu Jackson, the Sacramento Kings were not punished as much as they might have expected for their part in a bench-clearing brawl during the first quarter of an exhibition game at Los Angeles last Friday.

Jackson ruled that because the players left the bench to join a fracas in a hallway underneath the stands, rather than on the court, they would not receive the customary one-game suspension for that offense. He noted that when the fight first broke out on the court, none of the Kings players left the bench.

Fox and Christie will miss their season openers tonight. Fox is not eligible to return until the Lakers' game at Washington on Nov. 8. ''Six seemed excessive,'' Lakers Coach Phil Jackson said, ''but they wanted to send a message that this is action they can't have happen.''

[Spurminator]

But it was a nice try.

The rule applies to bench players coming onto the court. There is no precedent for any player coming onto the court during an altercation having no suspension handed down on him.


I think you guys should just try to get that rule re-examined this offseason.



Oh wait.

[UV Ray]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980CE5DA153FF93AA15753C1A9649C8B 63

All subject to interpretation.

[ambchang]

The rule was subject to interpretation. You can agree or disagree that the interpretation was favorable or unfavorable. I could care less. The bottom line is as follows:

The manlove fest with LBJ's post game conference is nothing more that an indirect attack on Suns fans whom they perceive as having no right to complain about the league's interpretation of a rule that made San Antonio's path to the NBA Championship the easiest in NBA history and in effect creating the asterisk that, no matter what a Spurs fan will tell you, cheapens their accomplishment and ultimately lessens their enjoyment of a fourth* championship.
I guess this finally helps me explain why the Suns fan wouldn't quit about the suspensions. Get over your team, they are not that important, people praise James for his class because he took the high road, not because it had something to do with the Suns.
The Spurs would have beaten the Suns regardless, anybody who say the games knew that the Spurs were controlling he tempo throughout the series except Game 2 and 4th quarter Game 4. The Spurs were 2-2 when two teams were full strength, and 2-0 when either one or the other team had players suspended.
Nobody remembers the Suns anymore, it is all but a footnote, asterisk if you will.
Get this in your head, the Suns are not so important that other teams obsess over them like you obsess over the Spurs, the Spurs do not revolve around the Suns, the league doesn't revolve around the Suns, they are but another 2nd round loser.

[Spurminator]

Yeah, the tunnel incident was, because there was no rule for mandatory suspensions on altercations away from the court.

[ChumpDumper]

The manlove fest with LBJ's post game conference is nothing more that an indirect attack on blah, blah, blahHe was lying just like Amare was about checking into the game.

I don't like either lie. Just whine like Nash does. I repsect that more, relatively speaking.

[Spurminator]

And it still makes me laugh that you keep calling the ruling "arbitrary." A by-the-book ruling is, by definition, not arbitrary.

[UV Ray]

I guess this finally helps me explain why the Suns fan wouldn't quit about the suspensions. Get over your team, they are not that important, people praise James for his class because he took the high road, not because it had something to do with the Suns.
The Spurs would have beaten the Suns regardless, anybody who say the games knew that the Spurs were controlling he tempo throughout the series except Game 2 and 4th quarter Game 4. The Spurs were 2-2 when two teams were full strength, and 2-0 when either one or the other team had players suspended.
Nobody remembers the Suns anymore, it is all but a footnote, asterisk if you will.
Get this in your head, the Suns are not so important that other teams obsess over them like you obsess over the Spurs, the Spurs do not revolve around the Suns, the league doesn't revolve around the Suns, they are but another 2nd round loser.


To steal a phrase from a previous Suns fan in this forum:

The power of the Asterisk is strong in this one!

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa179/xuy675/max_von_sydow_the_exorcist_3.jpg

[UV Ray]

And it still makes me laugh that you keep calling the ruling "arbitrary." A by-the-book ruling is, by definition, not arbitrary.

The interpretation was arbitrary, in my opinion.

[ChumpDumper]

The interpretation was arbitrary, in my opinion.Could the interpretation have been avoided had Amare and Boris stayed on or next to the bench?

Yes or no.

[Spurminator]

Does 2+2=5 in your opinion as well?

[UV Ray]

He was lying just like Amare was about checking into the game.

I don't like either lie. Just whine like Nash does. I repsect that more, relatively speaking.

The lying was sickening.

[Spurminator]

Sometimes I arbitrarily drive on the correct side of the road, and sometimes I arbitrarily pronounce words correctly.

[Spurminator]

I built a DVD cabinet the other day and I arbitrarily followed the directions on how to construct it.

[UV Ray]

Could the interpretation have been avoided had Amare and Boris stayed on or next to the bench?

Yes or no.

Nice try :lol

We'll never know :lol

[UV Ray]

Sometimes I arbitrarily drive on the correct side of the road, and sometimes I arbitrarily pronounce words correctly.

Interpret this:

Speed not reasonable and prudent.

(Smartass does not become you)

[ChumpDumper]

Nice try :lol

We'll never know :lolWhy not?

If a player stays on or next to the bench, is he subject to the bench rule's being enforced?

Yes or no.

Do you have an precedent for a player being suspended for breaking the most recent bench rule when he stayed on the bench?

Yes or no.

[UV Ray]

On: Doubtful

Next or near: Subject to interpretation.

[UV Ray]

On: Doubtful

Next or near: Subject to interpretation.

gotta go

[ChumpDumper]

Yes or no.

[Zig]

Many of you lambs are buying into this "LeBron showed his maturity after the game" crap. That he really grew up by referring to the final play as "incidental contact." Give me a break! He was blowing up at Delaney at the end of the game and making a spectacle of himself. You are on crack if you don't think Danny Ferry and Mike Brown got a hold of him after the game and told him to stop crying and to not make excuses in the press conference. He didn't look sincere for a moment during that press conference. Sure you want a player with fire and emotion, but please stop making LeDouche out to be humble.

Those of you who think he is humble and mature...You are speaking of a guy who has "Chosen 1" tatooed all over his back. Real classy,real mature, and real humble! :rolleyesWell since yesterday's conversation, LeBron(MadDog) has now emphasized that there was contact.....in his words - "There was some contact"....."We all know there was some contact.." This is a little different than him just shrugging off the last play like it wasn't anything citing.."incidental contact."

...and he has had a baby...out of wedlock. While stepping up and taking responsibility is a mature thing to do, he should have never gotten himself in that situation. Maturing in some ways...but so young in others.

[BlackFlagg]

Yeah, the tunnel incident was, because there was no rule for mandatory suspensions on altercations away from the court.

They just don't get it, do they? You can talk 'til you're blue in the face and they'll still argue. How can people be so fucking DUMB? :lol :lol

[ATXSPUR]

I actually dont think lebron is that classless and arrogant. While I do think he can be in over his head at times. I think the original poster is being too extreme and making Spurs look bad.

However I do think the media is making up too much out of what he said about the bowen foul at the press conerence...they will use any excuse to pimp lebron.

[ambchang]

Well since yesterday's conversation, LeBron(MadDog) has now emphasized that there was contact.....in his words - "There was some contact"....."We all know there was some contact.." This is a little different than him just shrugging off the last play like it wasn't anything citing.."incidental contact."

...and he has had a baby...out of wedlock. While stepping up and taking responsibility is a mature thing to do, he should have never gotten himself in that situation. Maturing in some ways...but so young in others.
For those who have the IQ of an eggplant, incidental contact is a form of contact.

[Zig]

For those who have the IQ of an eggplant, incidental contact is a form of contact.Thanks for clearing that up ambWANG - however, where he didn't even want to discuss it after the game and said that it was nothing but a little "incidental contact and didn't affect his shot;" now he is coming back a day later and announcing that we "all knew there was contact." Highlighting the fact that there was contact. He isn't contradicting himself, just showing more of an emphasis on the contact. Kinda shows that maybe he wasn't too sincere at his PC like I suggested in the initial post??? Maybe??? Hmmmmmm???

[ambchang]

Thanks for clearing that up ambWANG - however, where he didn't even want to discuss it after the game and said that it was nothing but a little "incidental contact and didn't affect his shot;" now he is coming back a day later and announcing that we "all knew there was contact." Highlighting the fact that there was contact. He isn't contradicting himself, just showing more of an emphasis on the contact. Kinda shows that maybe he wasn't too sincere at his PC like I suggested in the initial post??? Maybe??? Hmmmmmm???
Unlike you, I don't have this phenomenal ability to read into somebody's mind through 3rd hand quotes from the media, and short clips of videos with no context before or after the quote. But I suppose that is what a fantastic college diploma bring these days, I probably should go get one so that I can read people's mind and gauge their intent.
And neither do I have the ability to use conjectures to "win" an argument, but I am glad you are showing me the techniques.
BTW, didn't you know there was contact before the Chosen 1 told you that?

[MadDog73]

gotta go


LOL.

How the hell did this thread turn into another "should Amare have been suspended thread?"

That was so 2007...

Bring on 2008. Spurs need a repeat to cement their legacy.

[MadDog73]

...and he has had a baby...out of wedlock. While stepping up and taking responsibility is a mature thing to do, he should have never gotten himself in that situation. Maturing in some ways...but so young in others.

Uh, you don't have to be married to have children. I'm married, and that's my choice, but I respect those who choose not to get married.

Again, it has nothing to do with maturity and class.

[Zig]

Uh, you don't have to be married to have children. I'm married, and that's my choice, but I respect those who choose not to get married.

Again, it has nothing to do with maturity and class.Sure it does. Not thinking of the long-term affect on the children shows a lack of maturity.

[MadDog73]

Sure it does. Not thinking of the long-term affect on the children shows a lack of maturity.

:wtf Dude, only LeBron knows what is best for him and his child.

You have no right to sit there and pass judgment on him.

Do you think people should not get divorced just because they have kids?

I bet you think gay couples shouldn't be able to adopt kids either...

Zig, can I ask how old you are? I'm 33.

[Zig]

:wtf Dude, only LeBron knows what is best for him and his child.

You have no right to sit there and pass judgment on him.

Do you think people should not get divorced just because they have kids?

I bet you think gay couples shouldn't be able to adopt kids either...

Zig, can I ask how old you are? I'm 33.Im 34 and going through a divorce and have a 6yr old diabetic child. It is ripping my heart out not being able to be with my son everyday. I'm sure LeBron(MadDog) will be there for his child, just as I will continue to be, but young people need to think before having sex. If this was a planned pregnancy for them, maybe they should have thought about how it will affect the child in the long run. I am a very liberal person and I am also an educator. I see children from amicable broken homes that have long-term issues. I am doing everything I can with my son to make him grow up normal, but he wasn;t getting anything close to normal when his mother and I lived together. LeBron(MadDog), just do the right thing, whatever that may be.

[MadDog73]

Im 34 and going through a divorce and have a 6yr old diabetic child. It is ripping my heart out not being able to be with my son everyday. I'm sure LeBron(MadDog) will be there for his child, just as I will continue to be, but young people need to think before having sex. If this was a planned pregnancy for them, maybe they should have thought about how it will affect the child in the long run. I am a very liberal person and I am also an educator. I see children from amicable broken homes that have long-term issues. I am doing everything I can with my son to make him grow up normal, but he wasn;t getting anything close to normal when his mother and I lived together. LeBron(MadDog), just do the right thing, whatever that may be.


:oops Eh, sorry man. My wife is diabetic, hope my son will not be.

Good post and best of luck to you. I'd also like to apologize for some of my more personal comments.

Peace.