Jokes Over: Brent Barry Needs To Step Up

[timvp]

I know everyone says that Brent Barry will get better and start hitting his shots ... but what's his excuse for missing shots now? Yeah, he's on a new team but so is Beno Udrih. Udrih is shooting lights out and not only is he new to the team, it's his first time playing against any of these players. Honestly, Barry is playing like a chicken.

The Spurs got Barry to be a big time shooter in the playoffs. Now I have my doubts. If he doesn't have the courage to knock down a couple shots in November and December, what is going to happen when he's under the bright lights of the playoffs? That is going to be scary.

And for as much as we all bag on Hedo, that wuss was a much better defender and rebounder. And at least Hedo hit some shots during the regular season.

If the Spurs' brass thought that Devin Brown's playoff performance was a fluke, they should start to understand that this kids for real. He has a sweet stroke, good handles, good court vision, attacks the basket and is a superb defender. He obviously doesn't have the big name or the big contract, but this guy can play. He wasn't scared in the playoffs against the Lakers and now that he's getting a fair amount of playing time, he's showing what he can do.

I say it's time for Barry to put up or shut up. The jokes aren't funny anymore. I know the Spurs are doing well but that's no excuse for Barry to stink up the joint. If he's not going to hit shots, he has to at least play defense. Barry's best attribute is passing so far this season and while that is a great asset, the Spurs have an abundance of good passers on this team. They can do without one who can't shoot and can't defend.

Another scary thing to look at is how well Seattle is doing without him. With basically the same team minus Barry, they are now off to an incredible start. They are defending better than ever and now are able to run an up tempo game with Barry not running the point. Everyone said the Sonics would die with Barry leaving ... but the opposite has happened.

My final thought on this matter is Barry has done this before. Check out his 1998-99 stats when he was a member of the Bulls. He was under a lot of pressure (he was replacing MJ) and he folded like a cheap tent. Interestingly enough, the numbers are almost exactly the same as this year. That year he shot 39.6% from the field and 30.2% from beyond the arc. This year he's shooting 39.4% from the field and 29.9% from three-point land. He didn't snap out of it that season when the pressure was on ... why should we all be so confident that he will snap out of it this season?

Bottomline is if Barry doesn't come around, forget about him and use Brown. Brown is a dynamic player who is shooting as well as Barry ever could. Forget the name, eat the contract and make Barry watch tapes of Steve Kerr.

The Spurs have a lot of winning to do this season. No time to hold hands and coddle players who are too frightened to perform.

[ducks]

I would not mind a trade with him

devin brown proved he can hit shots in fourth

beno is better then I thought

give barry tell trading deadline then ship his but out of town
spurs get a expiring contract spurs then could keep brown,rose, and get scola

[whottt]

Um...Barry shot like 50% from the field tonight, got a big steal and hit a big 3 when the Bulls were making a run on us...I didn't see the game but listening to the radio it sounded like Barry had a good game...not as good as Devin...but...better than his other games of late.

[Guru of Nothing]

Maybe Pop should insert Barry into the starting lineup .. you know, to build his confidence. Manu will understand.

Seriously, the Spurs are 16-3; I'm here to preach patience.

[Kori Ellis]

He played an average offensive game tonight.

And he also played crap defense against Piatkowski.

[timvp]

Big picture, whottt. His defense tonight was worse than ever. He let Piatkowski drain a three over him when he had him in one-on-one coverage on the perimeter. Pop couldn't get Brown into the game fast enough when he saw that BS.

[whottt]

You guys are insane.

Cut Heal
Waive Mercer

What happened? We couldn't shoot. Even with the forum Goldenboy starting.

You don't trade depth and you don't screw up chemistry.

I mean trade him for what? Shaq?

And you also don't piss on a guy that took a paycut to come here.

Classless.

[Uncle Donnie]

Wow....can't argue with much of what timvp said but it is still early. Barry's got a different role on this team, and he's clearly not quick to adjust. I'm not worried though. He played pretty well tonight and we can afford to give him more time.

I totally agree Devin deserves his minutes if this is how he's gonna play. I don't see Pop taking such a hardline stance though. After all, he friggin started Hedo to try to get him out of a slump.

[ducks]

barry has 4 years left

spurs can not afford to have him suck with rose's contract especially later

spurs should pull the trigger on a good deal involving barry

[Kori Ellis]

You guys are insane.

Cut Heal
Waive Mercer

What happened? We couldn't shoot. Even with the forum Goldenboy starting.

You don't trade depth and you don't screw up chemistry.

I mean trade him for what? Shaq?

And you also don't piss on a guy that took a paycut to come here.

Classless.

I would not consider trading him at all. But with the way Devin is flourishing, it's hard to consider Barry the first swingman off the bench anymore.

[Guru of Nothing]

And yet, LJ traded Julius Jones for Deuce McAllister.

Inconsistent!

[Kori Ellis]

LJ isn't talking about trading Brent Barry -- that's ducks.

[timvp]

You guys are insane.

Cut Heal
Waive Mercer

What happened?

Um ... they cut Heal and waived Mercer.


And you also don't piss on a guy that took a paycut to come here.

Classless.

Devin gave up guaranteed money from Denver to come tryout with the Spurs a couple years ago. Barry decided between $24M with state income tax and $21M without state income tax. Brown gambled on $800,000 or $0.

What's the bigger risk?

[ducks]

so if he keeps this up tell feb you just keep him
and let devin walk?

[Kori Ellis]

Why would Devin need to walk?

[baseline bum]

Speaking of Devin Brown, what's up with Pop rescuing careers from the shitter? Under Pop's watch Malik went from 12th man to a top reserve, Jack from cancer to playoff assassin, and now Devin Brown from NBDL scrub to important bench player on a contender. Damn, Kevin O'Keefe must be pissed.

[ducks]

spurs have played 20 games almost

almost 1/4 of the season
barry needs to go OFF on sonics

he needs to do what q richardson did for suns nail 8 three's

[ducks]

spurs can not afford barry,devin brown,scola and rose

they have brown's bird rights but still will holt pay that pay roll?

[baseline bum]

I want a quadruple double from Barry. Actually, make it quintuple double because I want 10 threes too.

[Kori Ellis]

they have brown's bird rights but still will holt pay that pay roll?

If there's no luxury tax, then I think that Holt will easily pay Brown and they'll bring over Scola. Devin isn't going to demand $5M a year or anything.

[ShoogarBear]

Maybe Barry is not this year's Hedo, he's this year's Charlie Ward.

Seriously, I think fans (and maybe Pop) are willing to give Barry even more time than than they gave Hedo. But it's also true that when Barry's shot isn't falling, the only other thing he can give you is passing, which, as was previously mentioned, is rather plentiful around the Spurs these days.

Pop's team defense philosophy is apparently not easy to learn, and Barry ain't the second coming of Scottie Pippen, so there has to be some patience there.

But the fact remains, if he's not hitting his shots, then there's nothing he gives us that we don't already get from the Devin-Beno combination.

[E20]

Trade Barry for Hedo. :elephant

[ducks]

kori unless the new cba changes alot I see no way if spurs keep rose,barry and get scola brown will be back

rose will make money, barry still be a spur which sucked all season and can not play d
but holt will not pay anyone more because he is cheap

sorry did not see you kori post about luxury tax

[Kori Ellis]

One thing I don't get about Barry's shooting, even for the shots he made tonight, why is he fading away and running back down the court right after he releases? He is in such a hurry.

Though I'm not as passionate about this subject as timvp is in his rant, I do worry about his ability to handle pressure. But I'll reserve final judgement for another 15 games or so.

[SequSpur]

LMAO.

What are you pissed that spurs don't average 40 pt blowouts?

I bagged on Hedo all fucking year last year from the day he was signed and was ran out of town.

Just because Barry is missing a few 3 pointers? Give me a break. Dude is not Stephen Jackson. Dude is not even Derrick Anderson. Dude is a legitimate shooter, slasher, passer and according to you, he is also a backup point guard.

Dude doesn't need to average 20, he just needs to be a threat. There are Spurs open all over the court because of the defense he draws. Lower the expectations for him a little, give him a chance to settle. He is only here to bring 7-8 ppg anyway.

Geeze.

[Manu20]

Barry always fades on his shot right?

[timvp]

Brown is shooting 48.5% from the floor and 52.4% from beyond the arc. Over his last six games, he's averaging 14.3 points while shooting 58.5% from the floor and is 10-for-15 on threes. How do you not play him?

You play the guys who earn minutes. Not the guys who have big contracts.

[SequSpur]

Bro, the Spurs are winning. Are you saying Brown should play over Manu, Bowen, and Barry? Dude is better than all of them.

[ducks]

timvp I am glad you posted that when rose sucked last year
pop went with horry
not big contract

when spurs had steve smith they benched him (big contract)

with spurs current payroll and lockdown deals spurs are in trouble if barry sucks 4 years and they have to keep him that long

[Kori Ellis]

He's just saying Devin is playing well enough to be the first swingman off the bench.

[SequSpur]

I think this is a good problem. The Spurs actually have depth and tradeable assets. Damn. Imagine somebody else wanting our scrubs. That's a first.

Spurs are a center away from going undefeated.

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs are a center away from going undefeated. :lol

[baseline bum]

Spurs are a center away from going undefeated.

:lol

Just like the Lakers were a Gary Payton and a Karl Malone away from it last year?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

One thing I don't get about Barry's shooting, even for the shots he made tonight, why is he fading away and running back down the court right after he releases? He is in such a hurry.

Though I'm not as passionate about this subject as timvp is in his rant, I do worry about his ability to handle pressure. But I'll reserve final judgement for another 15 games or so.


I totally notice that as well, he seems to release the ball way to quickly, like he's releasing the shot before he's even at the peak of his jump. I dont know if thats just the way he shoots but he definitely needs to take a little bit more time with his shot, like you said he seems to be in a "hurry" when he shoots

[IcemanCometh]

hmmmmm

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Come on timvp, it's a bit different in the playoffs vs. an early December game against a two win Chicago team two nights before going up against co-league leading Seattle...

After that early lead, the Spurs played some very sloppy basketball up until about the midpoint of the third quarter.

If I was going to panic over tonight, there'd be a lot more to worry about than Barry's ho hum outing.

It sounds like Barry is still struggling with some of the Spurs defensive concepts. And if he's having problems at that end, no matter what, human nature dictates that when he's down at the other end he's at least thinking about defensive responsibilities while spotted up on the weakside.

Give the guy some room, it's supposed to be around All-Star game time when everyone starts to "get it."

In the meantime, Devin's filling the nets up, let him carry the load until Barry hits his stride.

[Kori Ellis]

If I was going to panic over tonight, there'd be a lot more to worry about than Barry's ho hum outing.

How about Barry's 0-for-17 before tonight?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

One thing I don't get about Barry's shooting, even for the shots he made tonight, why is he fading away and running back down the court right after he releases? He is in such a hurry.


I noticed this too. Just a hunch, but he's probably having it ground into his brain about getting back on D. Earlier this season he would follow through on his shots and he was hitting (back in preseason), but it's like he's trying to get back on D before he even gets rid of the ball nowadays.

[Kori Ellis]

In the meantime, Devin's filling the nets up, let him carry the load until Barry hits his stride.

So, should Devin come in the game before Barry?

[ducks]

I give him tell feb then he can get traded at trading deadline

but brown should come in first tell brown proves barry should go in first

[timvp]

Earlier this season he would follow through on his shots and he was hitting (back in preseason)

I call BS. You must not have watched preseason. Barry shot like 10%, bro.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So, should Devin come in the game before Barry?

I don't think that necessarily has to be the case. I'd like to see Barry come in for Manu when he leaves about the six minute mark in the first. That way he gets 2-3 minutes of run with Tim.

Also, instead of sticking Barry on the other side of the play, I'd like to see them have Barry making the entry pass and staying on Tim's side when he's working down low.

[SequSpur]

Brent Barry will be fine, that's what you requested, that's what you got. I wanted Jackson back, however, I hope he falls off a cliff now for what he did in Detroit.

The Spurs built this team for the playoffs, Barry will be one of the x factors, however, we still need a center.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

LJ, there was a 2-3 game stretch where he settled down and was hitting, that was what I was referring to.

I think it was Dallas and New Orleans, or maybe Houston? Something like that. Right near the end of preseason.

[T Park]

call BS. You must not have watched preseason. Barry shot like 10%, bro.

early on yeah, but didnt the game against New Olreans and the first game against Sacramento he had good games??



Geez, 16-3 and we sound like 3-16.

Unreal.



IMO, he was pretty clutch nailing the two free throws against Detroit.

But I guess thats the wrong kind of clutch.

[Manu20]

I'm not worry about Barry's shot what I'm worry about is his defense, seems like he gets scored upon the most of any perimeter defender. Also, I would like to see more assist out of him maybe 4/game.

[ducks]

if spurs will 10-9
most spur fans would want barry gone

barry can not play d

why keep him 4 years

[Guru of Nothing]

And yet, LJ traded Julius Jones for Deuce McAllister.

Inconsistent!

BUMP!!

[whottt]

Someone explain something to me....

Why is it Malik VS Horry?

Why is it Devin VS Barry?

#1.We need Barry on this team just to hit fucking free throws...who else is going to shoot them that you trust? Malik? Manu? Parker? Duncan? I don't trust those guys FT shooting.

#2.This is a championship contender...you don't think about 4 years from now in a season you can win a title.

#3.In case you guys haven't noticed...Barry is still shooting better from 3 than Parker, and Manu's numbers are dropping...

Why wouldn't you want additional shooters backing them up? I'd want as many as I can get my hands on.

What happens if Manu, TP and Bruce go cold? It happened to us last season, Devin wasn't enough.

#4.I saw you guys ideal roster of a team of weak shooting d players last season...those teams suck ass and they choke...keep some freaking shooters please, even if they don't play D...it takes more than D to win a title and we have enough D...and if we don't then who does?

#5. It's the regular season.

#6. I realize Barry may have given up a score tonight...who gave up the other 73 points? Do they suck too?

#7. What happens if someone gets hurt?...Say Beno, Manu, Bruce or Parker? How many guys in the NBA are as capable of filling in that many different spots as Barry?

#8. He was hurt the year he was in Chicago and it's not easy to replace MJ.

#9. In his career, Seattle has a losing record without him and winning record with him...I think their improvment has a lot more to do with Ray Allen's re-emergence and Fortson's rebounding...it wasn't a lack of Brent Barry that kicked our ass when we played Seattle, it was Allen and Fortson.


#10. Chill

#11. You guys got to drive this last bus season...I bitched, you guys talked shit...we got fucking Ward, we waived Heal, we kept AC, we dumped Mercer... I was fucking right, we went into the post season with no credible back ups to Parker and Manu. Hedo tanked, and it cost us.. I'm driving this mother fucker this season...we'll be allright...we are gonna win a title and we are gonna have fun season.

#12. Barry still plays better D than AJ and you guys wanted him this year...hell even AJ knows he's done now.

#13. Chill again, it's going to be ok...

#14. I really hate being the positive and uplifting voice so let's try and look on the bright side of life.

[Kori Ellis]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru of Nothing




And yet, LJ traded Julius Jones for Deuce McAllister.

Inconsistent!




BUMP!!

For the second time, LJ isn't talking about trading Brent Barry.

[T Park]

Great post whottt.

^5

[timvp]

What is your point, GoN? I have more points than you in both leagues we are in. You picked McAllister in the first round ... I picked up Julius Jones off the waiver wire a couple weeks ago before he was healthy. I have Tomlinson and Droughns, so JJones wasn't a need for me. I'd rather go with McAllister in a pinch instead of JJones ... despite what the Seahawks excuse for a run defense would tell you.

[T Park]

someone seems in a bad mood.

[Kori Ellis]

No, just sick of GoN's condescending attitude.

[Guru of Nothing]

Maybe my point IS that I would prefer Barry over Brown - in a pinch, you know.

I lose.

Bye.

[Guru of Nothing]

No, just sick of GoN's condescending attitude.

That's not fair. I'm condescending to TPark, Duff, and a few others, but not you and LJ.

[Kori Ellis]

Well you don't have to make the choice. Both of them are Spurs and the only person who wants to trade Barry is ducks.

BTW, Blaze's points need corrected in XPert. It's going to cause him a loss, but that's the breaks.

[timvp]

I don't get it. Was that a good trade or a bad trade?

Don't drink and drive. Or talk hoops and FF.

:drunk









P.S.

With your win in xpertleagues, you knocked me out of the playoffs.

:depressed

[T Park]

welcome to my world lol....

[timvp]

To get back on subject, if Devin Brown was struggling as much as Brent Barry is struggling, how much time would he get?

[Guru of Nothing]

Well you don't have to make the choice. Both of them are Spurs and the only person who wants to trade Barry is ducks.

BTW, Blaze's points need corrected in XPert. It's going to cause him a loss, but that's the breaks.

Regarding Blaze's points, I have already noted that in XPL.

Regarding Barry vs. Brown, I must go back and reread the thread. I thought LJ had framed it as a Barry vs. Brown situation.

[timvp]

To get back on subject, if Devin Brown was struggling as much as Brent Barry is struggling, how much time would he get?

None. He'd be waived.

[whottt]

ducks is officially off my genius list until he gets his act together on this trade crap. Talking about trading Malik and Barry in the same post. And I notice his Vbuck total is declining as well...get it together ducks, Barry's 3 PCT is better than your winning % on bets lately.

[T Park]

To get back on subject, if Devin Brown was struggling as much as Brent Barry is struggling, how much time would he get?

Not much.

But the other side of that, is Devin a proven veteran? No hes not.


Quit bagging on Barry so much.

He didnt look like he did as bad as like Ginobili or some others tonight.

7 points, 1 of 3 three points.

Thats decent. better than he has been.

Lets just take a deeeep breath.

[Kori Ellis]

Ducks lost $3K on the Vikings game.

[timvp]

I'm not bagging on him. I'm telling him to step up.

There's no hand holding in the NBA, T Park.





P.S.

You ripped me for months for supporting Devin ... and now you are on my case when all I'm saying is Barry needs to play better?

Doesn't make sense.

[Kori Ellis]

What I think people are misunderstanding in this thread is people think that timvp is talking about Barry because of tonight's game. He's not. He's talking about the season that he's had so far.

Almost 1/4 of the season is gone and he's shooting 30% from 3. He brings a lot of other things to the table, but he's got to knock down his shots. Maybe he's just slumping, but perhaps he's just not going to be clutch.

The Spurs have the luxury of depth. And that's a good thing.

I think this thread is bringing out that question, how long would you keep bringing Barry off the bench as the first swingman if he's not knocking down shots and isn't adjusting to Spurs D?

Devin's performances of late are proving that he deserves to get some playing time. So should he come off the bench first? Or should the Spurs keep waiting for Barry to come around?

I'm not sure, but I'd probably give Barry another 15 games or so.

[whottt]

If Barry sucks play Devin, if Horry sucks play Malik...when the situations reverse themselves...as they surely will at some point...you reverse it and roll on...it's called depth. And it's why we will win the NBA title this year.

What I know is that...no way do Barry, Horry, Manu, Bruce, Devin, Parker and Beno all go cold on the perimeter at the same time in the playoffs, for 2 games in a row, even Wilks has got perimeter game...and Duncan doesn't need much more than that to dominate...if he's got two guys hitting on the perimeter and Manu breaking down the D...it'll be business as usual for Mr.Duncan and no stifling double teams and the TO's that ensue....

This team is a machine, just like tonight, they really didn't play that well on O...and they still blew the Bulls out by 15 points...and it wasn't that good of an offensive game...this team will roll and roll and roll, the only thing that stops it is inury...and having a guy like Barry increases the chances that even injury won't stop it.

[Kori Ellis]

One good thing about Devin is that we already know his balls don't shrink come playoff time. He really laid it on the line in the Lakers series last season. That's why I hope that the Spurs find minutes for him throughout the season, because I know he can be a difference maker in the post season.

And, the Spurs definitely need Barry too.

[milkyway21]

..what if Parker gets injured? Beno is injury risk. Keep Barry!

[Kori Ellis]

No one is saying to get rid of Barry (except ducks).

[whottt]

Devin's performances of late are proving that he deserves to get some playing time. So should he come off the bench first? Or should the Spurs keep waiting for Barry to come around?

I'm not sure, but I'd probably give Barry another 15 games or so.

I say that you make sure all these guys are getting minutes, naturally the guys who are and have been playing better get more minutes until they give you a reason to do otherwise...You go with the deep rotation ala Hubie...and you go with the hot hand...I hope that with this kind of depth Pop will be more flexible in his rotation, because he can be, this is a smart, smart team..and they know what they are supposed to do......and the deeper rotaion'll save the burden on Bruce, as well as ease the heavy load Manu and Duncan have been carrying throughout the summer....

It does no good to have depth unless you use it.

It doesn't matter to me who is getting the most minutes and it shouldn't matter to the guys on the Spurs, I don't think minutes are a big deal to a guys like Horry or Barry..I mean if he was that worried about his minutes he'd be chucking up shots like crazy when he got in the game, but he's not, he's sharing the ball.....the ring is the thing...

[Guru of Nothing]

One good thing about Devin is that we already know his balls don't shrink come playoff time.

He could be the second coming of Jaren Jackson.

On that note, I'm going to sleep before the severe storms roll in.

Good night.

[Kori Ellis]

He could be the second coming of Jaren Jackson.

No, because he didn't get fat this summer. :)

[T Park]

Devin Brown is twice as talented, and twice the player Jaren Jackson was.

All Jaren Jackson was was a lucky ass shooter who got hot against the Lakers.

After that, fat dumb happy and didnt care after the big contract.

[SPARKY]

To think the Spurs could have had Stephen Jackson back instead. The Spurs could have avoided the potential free agent bust and Jackson would've avoided being out two million dollars.

Think about this lineup Spurs fans:

Jackson/Duncan/Nesterovic/Ginobili/Parker

Oldest one would have been Duncan at age 28. Good job, Peter McCombs.

[IcemanCometh]

ok

[T Park]

Sparky,

youd have sacraficed Ginobili and Barry to get Jackson?

You sign jackson?? NO money for Ginobili.

FACT!

[toosmallshoes]

Barry seems rushed on everything he does this season, like he's trying to prove too much too fast. Udrih is scoring more because he's a good shooter who's willing to take crazy shots. Barry is a bit anal with his shot selection. he's a perfectionist on an almost perfect team. He is defintely putting too much pressure on himself, and this may very well be a bad sign for the playoffs. If he's the worst player on the team though, then we're not doing too darn bad. But he's not the worst player. I still hold hope that he will improve.

[Slomo]

Barry seems rushed on everything he does this season, like he's trying to prove too much too fast. Udrih is scoring more because he's a good shooter who's willing to take crazy shots. Barry is a bit anal with his shot selection. he's a perfectionist on an almost perfect team. He is defintely putting too much pressure on himself, and this may very well be a bad sign for the playoffs. If he's the worst player on the team though, then we're not doing too darn bad. But he's not the worst player. I still hold hope that he will improve. In the few games I've seen Beno's shot decisions were pretty good and he did shoot in bad positions only when the shot clock was winding down. But I haven't seen enough games to really dispute this. Anybody else agrees with that?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Devin gave up guaranteed money from Denver to come tryout with the Spurs a couple years ago. Barry decided between $24M with state income tax and $21M without state income tax. Brown gambled on $800,000 or $0.
What's the bigger risk?


The bigger risk is jumping to conclusions before you know what your talking about, and until barry plays in the playoffs, none of us do. Its funny, why weren't people saying these things when Barry was averaging 15 points a game and parker was stinking up the joint? Basketball players are streaky, especially early in the year guys, the thing is after Christmas and the all-star break we will start to see the Barry that we have, not the slumping shooter.

ALL GREAT SHOOTERS HAVE THEIR SLUMPS, JUST LIKE GOOD HITTERS AND BIG GOAL SCORERS!

[SPARKY]

TPark that is not a fact only Barry would have not been signed.

[ducks]

Ducks lost $3K on the Vikings game.


thanks kori

I was trying to forget that game :lol

[whottt]

TPark that is not a fact only Barry would have not been signed.

We did not have the cap space to pay Jack what he wanted, with or without Barry. It's not hard to figure out since Jack makes more money than Barry and the Spurs were over the cap even before we resigned Parker. Deduct Barry and Parker's contracts from the Spurs payroll, we're over the cap.

Jack priced himself out of our range...if you want to blame someone for this, blame Jack...he's the main reason he is no longer on this team.


Sincerely, a Jack fan

[ducks]

I wanted barry over jack because barry could play backup one
I am not sure anymore though
his d is terrible
spurs have passers
barry's job is to hit the three like steve kerr
and play d

if he does not do that he deserves to be benched tell he shows signs he is coming out of it

and if someone calls about barry you have to consider it. barry can not play d now
what will hsi d like be in 3 years? when he is slower

[whottt]

Who cares about 3 years from now? I care about this season...it takes a while get the Spurs defensive system...it even took Manu a full season to get it.

And the Spurs passers aren't that good...I'd still say that Barry is the best on the team at it...maybe tied with Manu but Barry doesn't make the insane passes...you need at least 1 guy making sane passes. I think Barry is a big reason the Spurs are such a good passing team this year.

Stop the Barry hate just because Barry is shooting 30% from 3 point range....

If you doubt he can shoot just look at the fact that he is in a slump and he is still shooting 30%. Better than Parker.

[ducks]

if barry can not bring anything this year

would it not be better if spurs could trade him for someone who could help spurs this season to win a title?


or does barry play have nothing to do with a title

barry is not a rookie or a young guy like manu and tp
he is a vet
he has almost 20 games, preason, and training camp to get it.

one think about young players and rookies they make mistakes but they have hardly no bad habits. Spurs staff is not great at correcting shots. steve smith had to correct tp's shot and tell him to use his legs. spurs have no vets to go up to barry and tell him to quit rushing your shot? who on this team could. duncan could but I am not sure he knows barry is rushing his shot.

[SPARKY]

We did not have the cap space to pay Jack what he wanted, with or without Barry. It's not hard to figure out since Jack makes more money than Barry and the Spurs were over the cap even before we resigned Parker. Deduct Barry and Parker's contracts from the Spurs payroll, we're over the cap.

how were the Spurs able to sign Barry? The salary cap wasn't an issue ownership didnt want to commit to Jack on a multiyear big money deal.

[whottt]

how were the Spurs able to sign Barry? The salary cap wasn't an issue ownership didnt want to commit to Jack on a multiyear big money deal.


The Spurs were like 300k under the cap....Jax makes about 500k more than Barry this season...We went over this on the forum at the time it was happening...I might be wrong but I am pretty sure Jax wanted more than the Spurs had available after signing Manu...that's why I finally shut up about it.

And I think they used the difference to sign Sato...

Barry took what the Spurs could offer within their cap structure...was they that knew their cap...

[SPARKY]

If the Spurs were under the cap by only 300k how did they manage to sign Barry?

Stephen's contract started at a salary that is roughly 300k more than Barry's. It was never a salary cap matter.

[whottt]

If the Spurs were under the cap by only 300k how did they manage to sign Barry?

After they signed Barry.



Stephen's contract started at a salary that is roughly 300k more than Barry's. It was never a salary cap matter.

Well the Spurs tried to get Jack before they tried to get Barry...so you figure out why it didn't happen then...Why did the Spurs offer Barry what they offered?

[SPARKY]

Sure, after signing Barry they had little left.

I am telling you why it didn't happen and it had nothing to do with the salary cap.

[whottt]

Sure, after signing Barry they had little left.

I am telling you why it didn't happen and it had nothing to do with the salary cap.

:rolleyes

[SPARKY]

Barry only got 3 years guaranteed with a team option for a fourth year. The Spurs were certainly able to give him or anyone else a 6 year deal like Stephen got

[SPARKY]

Why the :rolleyes? I am arguing that they should have signed Jackson instead of Barry.

[whottt]

Barry only got 3 years guaranteed with a team option for a fourth year. The Spurs were certainly able to give him or anyone else a 6 year deal like Stephen got


Not at the price Jax wanted...and Jax makes 500k more than Barry this season, at least according to the numbers I just saw.

[whottt]

Why the :rolleyes? I am arguing that they should have signed Jackson instead of Barry.

Because I raised hell about it at the time and every capologist on the board was saying Jax was beyond the cap space.

[SPARKY]

The price Jackson wanted was a 6 year deal and you yourself just said that that the Spurs had 300k left over after signing Barry so that brings your difference down to 200k. Factor in taxes, cost of living, playing where you enjoyed your greatest professional glory and it's not much of a difference.

What was the difference was that the Spurs would not give him a 6 year deal.

[SPARKY]

You put too much stock in what those capologists had to say.

[SPARKY]

I really hope you do not find this surprising in light of Peter Holt's reluctance to lock up Tony Parker for a reasonable NBA price a month ago.

[whottt]

The price Jackson wanted was a 6 year deal and you yourself just said that that the Spurs had 300k left over after signing Barry so that brings your difference down to 200k. Factor in taxes, cost of living, playing where you enjoyed your greatest professional glory and it's not much of a difference.

What was the difference was that the Spurs would not give him a 6 year deal.

Taxes and cost of living have nothing to do with cap space...Jaxk makes more money than Barry on an annual basis...

What you are saying is that Jack would have taken less to come here...prove it. And I know what Jack said in the past...but obviously he has different idea of less than other people.

The Spurs cap was very tight after signing Manu for the purposes of still being able to pick up a mid level FA.....I mean you didn't even see them try to sign Hedo, and they wanted Hedo back...the difference between he and Jack's salary is less than the difference between Jack and Barry's salaries...

[whottt]

You put too much stock in what those capologists had to say.

I do when these capologists were for the most part in favor of signing Jack.

[SPARKY]

Taxes and cost of living have nothing to do with cap space...Jaxk makes more money than Barry on an annual basis...

That's part of my point.



What you are saying is that Jack would have taken less to come here...prove it.

Taxes, cost of living, playing back where he won his ring, etc. The money difference is practically nonexistent. Jack makes more in salary because of those factors.



And I know what Jack said in the past...but obviously he has different idea of less than other people.

The Spurs cap was very tight after signing Manu and still being able to pick up a mid level FA.....I mean you didn't even see them try to sign Hedo, and they wanted Hedo back...the difference between he and Jack's salary is less than the difference between Jack and Barry's salaries...

The difference was negligible. It wasn't about the cap it was about the Spurs willing to commit to Stephen Jackson for six years.

[SPARKY]

You need to find some new capologists.

[SPARKY]

I also hope you realize that Barry took less money to play in San Antonio too. Part of the reason was that he wanted to win and part of it was definitely cost of living issues.

[whottt]

Well for all you know what Jack is making now is his idea of less....he was a part of an S&T fairly late in the FA period...

[whottt]

I also hope you realize that Barry took less money to play in San Antonio too. Part of the reason was that he wanted to win and part of it was definitely cost of living issues.

I do know he took less....he took the offer the Spurs could give him and still do what they wanted to do within their cap space...Their cap space was tight...

He makes 500 K less this season than Jack...they only had like 300 K left over after signing Barry...that tells me that they didn't have enough to offer Jack what he wanted...and what Jack is making is what he was left with as his options disappeared.

You say the Spurs didn't want Jax on a 6 year deal...why? They signed Rasho to a 6 year deal..and they didn't have a clue how he was going to fit in our system.

It wasn't the number of years they had a problem with on Parker's contract it was the annual ammount.

They signed Barry to a 3 year deal because he is 33 years old...I don't blame them for not giving Barry a 6 year deal...who wants to pay a 40 year old 10 million a season.

I say to you that if Jack had wanted to be here...he'd be here. Barry did...Jax wanted to get paid. That offer he got from Indy was the top offer he got from any team.

[SPARKY]

There you go. Had the Spurs come with a six year deal when they were talking to him they would have stood a good chance of signing him. The Spurs better pull off another foreign surprise to fill their small forward position

[ducks]

sparky his agent di dnot return spurs phone calls when he left sa
spurs offered him the most

his agent is known for being an idiot
had he wanted to come to sa he would have fired hsi agent
spurs then would have called

[SPARKY]

I do know he took less....he took the offer the Spurs could give him still do what they wanted to do within their cap space...

Which was?

Why can we count on Barry to play for nominally less yet cannot do the same for Jackson?



He makes 500 K less this season than Jack


So you say.



...they only had like 300 K left over after signing Barry...that tells me that they didn't have enough to offer Jack what he wanted...and what Jack is making is what he was left with as his options disappeared.


Again, when you factor in the stuff which Barry apparently did then it's not an issue. A 200k difference in a six year deal, 40 million dollar deal is roughly 1.2 million. Barry took 3 million less than the 24 million dollar deal he was offered to stay in Seattle.




You say the Spurs didn't want Jax on a 6 year deal...why? They signed Rasho to a 6 year deal..and they didn't have a clue how he was going to fit in our system.


Because it's harder to find a decent center in the NBA. Also I would argue because the Spurs didn't want to commit such a large deal to Jackson. Remember what their offer to him in the summer after winning the championship was?




It wasn't the number of years they had a problem with on Parker's contract it was the annual ammount.

No. The Spurs clearly did not want to give him that deal until The Franchise and Pop spoke up.



They signed Barry to a 3 year deal because he is 33 years old...I don't blame them for not giving Barry a 6 year deal...who wants to pay a 40 year old 10 million a season.

That isn't really relevant here. Why not sign the 26 year old who has proven himself of being a clutch playoff player and fits in your system instead of the guy who's 7 years older and who never had?



I say to you that if Jack had wanted to be here...he'd be here. Barry didi...Jax wanted to get paid.

And Jack could easily have gotten paid in San Antonio, had ownership been willing to pony up.

[bigzak25]

barry won't break out of his slump riding the pine....and devin is getting his share of minutes. i don't see what the problem is. we need them both to win the title, and if your gonna slump, do it early in the season with the team on cruise control.


looking at the season stats, barry is getting 23 mpg and devin is at 15.

LAST Night however, Barry got 18 and Dev 22. So it looks like Pop agrees with you.

Bottomline, you play the hot hand, but otherwise, we all know Pop is gonna let defensive matchups dictate minutes.

[whottt]

Which was?

Why can we count on Barry to play for nominally less yet cannot do the same for Jackson?

Ask fucking Jack...he is the one making more annually, and has 6 year deal, elsehwhere....not me.

Jack makes more money annually, and he's got a longer contract. How hard is this to figure out? It's not even up to debate.







So you say.Jack (http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm)

Barry (http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm)



Again, when you factor in the stuff which Barry apparently did then it's not an issue. A 200k difference in a six year deal, 40 million dollar deal is roughly 1.2 million. Barry took 3 million less than the 24 million dollar deal he was offered to stay in Seattle.

You need to tell Jack this, not me....he's the one making more money...and on a longer contract.





Because it's harder to find a decent center in the NBA. Also I would argue because the Spurs didn't want to commit such a large deal to Jackson. Remember what their offer to him in the summer after winning the championship was?

Yeah? And did you want Manu signed or not?





No. The Spurs clearly did not want to give him that deal until The Franchise and Pop spoke up.

Parker? Yeah but they weren't arguing over the length of the contract...the difference was 2 million in the first year...and with interest over the length...they got tight with Parker...but you are saying they let Jack get away over an amount of 500k....I don't think they did that, willingly.

[SPARKY]

First off going by the links you just provided the difference in first year salary is $400k. Assuming you are correct about the $300k left over in cap room now we are talking about a $100k annual difference in salary, or a $600k difference in a contract in the $40 mil range.

[kskonn]

I think it should say something that the Franchise and Pop did not speak up.they have shown in the past that if they really want a player they will step to the plate to get him. I agree with sparky that ultimately it was not a money issue, the spurs would have taken Jack for what they offered him, but they were not going to make a huge effort to persuade him back to the spurs. Lets not forget that Jax was the Turnover king when he was in SA. Didn't he average six a game in the Finals? I think their are a lot of good and Bad that Both Barry and Jax bring. However Barry will turn it around at some point. some one who has played as well as he has for as long as he has will turn it around.


P.S. I think the deal they offered him after the championship year was 12 mil for 3 years with an optional 4th. His agent turned them down and then had to take less money with the Hawks. His agent is known for making making horrible decisions.

[SPARKY]

Ask fucking Jack...he is the one making more annually, and has 6 year deal, elsehwhere....not me.

Jack makes more money annually, and he's got a longer contract. How hard is this to figure out? It's not even up to debate.

Apparently it is rather hard for you to figure out. At this point you are simply being obstinate as a matter of pride.

[SPARKY]

Parker? Yeah but they weren't arguing over the length of the contract...the difference was 2 million in the first year...and with interest over the length...they got tight with Parker...but you are saying they let Jack get away over an amount of 500k....I don't think they did that, willingly.

The difference was 2 million over the entire deal. Also it wasn't a 500k difference it was ultimately a 100k difference going by the numbers you have stated and cited.

[SPARKY]

Yeah? And did you want Manu signed or not?

It wasn't about Manu it was about their manic obsession to be used by Kobe Bryant.

[spurster]

Well, so far this season, the Spurs have the fortune to have Beno and Devin start producing off the bench. Swingman off the bench and/or backup PG was supposed to be Barry's job, now the second one is gone, and the 1st one is going.

But it's a long season and since the Spurs are playing something like 20 games in 10 nights, its good to keep your starters' minutes down. I'd say Manu 30, Bowen 30, Brown 20, Barry 16 for minutes. The Spurs can wait for Barry to find himself. Sometimes that works (SJax) and sometimes that doesn't (Hedo).

[SPARKY]

Good points. Thankfully Devin and Beno have produced or Barry's struggles would really be hurting the team.

[whottt]

First off going by the links you just provided the difference in first year salary is $400k. Assuming you are correct about the $300k left over in cap room now we are talking about a $100k annual difference in salary, or a $600k difference in a contract in the $40 mil range.

What part of salary cap don't you understand?

It's only a soft cap in certain situations....and signing outside FA when you don't have the MLE is not one of them in which it is soft.

And I'm not 100% certain I am right about how much capspace they had left...it might have been more, it might have been less...but it wasn't much...I know that.

And Jack's numbers are what Jack ultimately signed for....you can't prove that's what he was asking for from the Spurs...and if you can give me the link.

[SPARKY]

I think it should say something that the Franchise and Pop did not speak up.they have shown in the past that if they really want a player they will step to the plate to get him. I agree with sparky that ultimately it was not a money issue, the spurs would have taken Jack for what they offered him, but they were not going to make a huge effort to persuade him back to the spurs. Lets not forget that Jax was the Turnover king when he was in SA. Didn't he average six a game in the Finals? I think their are a lot of good and Bad that Both Barry and Jax bring. However Barry will turn it around at some point. some one who has played as well as he has for as long as he has will turn it around.


P.S. I think the deal they offered him after the championship year was 12 mil for 3 years with an optional 4th. His agent turned them down and then had to take less money with the Hawks. His agent is known for making making horrible decisions.


Good points though sound fundamentals aren't always the best. Hedo was technically superior to Jackson though whose nuts shrank in the playoffs and who's didn't?

I will say this about Hedo, at least his nuts didn't shrink in November.

[whottt]

It wasn't about Manu it was about their manic obsession to be used by Kobe Bryant.

Wrong 100% wrong and on this I know you are wrong.

They had no idea what type of contract Manu was going to get offered in FA and if they had signed Jack to the contract he asked for they would have only been able to match up to the MLE for Manu....If we'd signed Jack that first year there is no gurantee we would have been able to resign Manu.

It had nothing to do with Kobe...

This I am 100% certain of.

[kskonn]

Hopefully with the experience that Barry has he will not need the minutes to find himself. At some point this season the spurs are going to need him, whether it is to hit a big three or to hit clutch free throws(detroit pistons game). Barry knows it is about the team, the best thing for the team is to get Devin in there while he is playing well in order to develop consistency. Same with Beno. I honestly think that down the road all the guys getting playing time are going to have a defining moment. Just like Kerr in 03 in the Mavericks game. It is going to be exciting.

[whottt]

The difference was 2 million over the entire deal. Also it wasn't a 500k difference it was ultimately a 100k difference going by the numbers you have stated and cited.

You are right on this...I mis-stated it...but you still have to prove Jack was willing to sign here for less..and that he only wanted the amount he took from Indy....Indy was his last option to still get a decent contract and be able to play for a winning team...

I'm not being obstinate...you are talking shit and you haven't backed up a single thing you have said with any kind of link...

100% out of your ass.

Gimme a link and I might agree with you...I might get more pissed about then you are.

I think if Jack had wanted to be here...he'd be here.

[SPARKY]

What part of salary cap don't you understand?


Oh, I understand it. Apparently you are having some difficulty.



It's only a soft cap in certain situations....and outside FA when you don't have the MLE are not one of them in which it is soft.


That's not the issue here.



And I'm not 100% certain I am right about how much capspace they had left...it might have been more, it might have been less...but it wasn't much...I know that.

You weren't even sure what the salary difference was between Jackson and Barry and you posted the links which contained that information.




And that's what Jack ultimately signed for....you can't prove that's what he was asking for from the Spurs...and if you can give me the link.

Go to Patricia's site.

Jack signed for something more which was tantamount to a rounding error over the life of the contract than what the Spurs could have nominally offered. The salary cap room left over was a little more than 300k but I decided to be generous and use your numbers.

You make out the $600k difference that Jack signed for versus what the Spurs could have offered (using your numbers) as some insurmountable amount, yet Barry himself signed for $3 million less than what he was offered elsewhere.

You've yet to explain any of this.

[SPARKY]

Wrong 100% wrong and on this I know you are wrong.

They had no idea what type of contract Manu was going to get offered in FA and if they had signed Jack to the contract he asked for they would have only been able to match up to the MLE for Manu....If we'd signed Jack that first year there is no gurantee we would have been able to resign Manu.

It had nothing to do with Kobe...

This I am 100% certain of.


Then why'd they make a run at him last summer?

[kskonn]

Sparky, oh trust me after Hedo's playoff performance I did not want him back, and yes Jackson could hit the big shot in the playoffs.






can anyone tell me how to quote other posts in my replies?

[SPARKY]

You are right on this...I mis-stated it...but you still have to prove Jack was willing to sign here for less..and that he only wanted the amount he took from Indy....Indy was his last option to still get a decent contract and be able to play for a winning team...

The difference was nothing once you factor in cost of living. In fact if the Spurs had offered what they were fully able to under the cap rules then Jackson would have come out ahead all things considered. So it wasn't about taking more money it was about ownership not being willing to commit to Jackson.



I'm not being obstinate...you are talking shit and you haven't backed up a single thing you have said with any kind of link...

That's because most of this should be obvious, especially to someone with such a knowledge of the league, its rules, and its players like yourself. Also when you have posted a link you managed to contradict yourself. The information you have posted has been full of inaccuracies as well.




100% out of your ass.


Look in the mirror.



Gimme a link and I might agree with you...I might get more pissed about then you are.


Here's a link. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7299&page=4) Read it and learn.



I think if Jack had wanted to be here...he'd be here.

Assuming that he'd get a 6 year deal here.

[SPARKY]

Actually I can think of one argument you should be making which would expand the difference in the first year salaries a little more. But I'll leave it up to you, the league expert, to figure it out.

[whottt]

Oh, I understand it. Apparently you are having some difficulty.



That's not the issue here.

Yes it is, because you're making the assumption that Jack had the same feeling concering the tax arguments ...You are making those statements as if they are a reason Jack would be willing to accept less to play here...IE the same amount as Barry signed for...he didn't sign for the same amount Barry signed for...annually or any other way.




You weren't even sure what the salary difference was between Jackson and Barry and you posted the links which contained that information.

It's more than you've posted...





Go to Patricia's site.

Jack signed for something more which was tantamount to a rounding error over the life of the contract than what the Spurs could have nominally offered. The salary cap room left over was a little more than 300k but I decided to be generous and use your numbers.


Jack signed late in FA....





You make out the $600k difference that Jack signed for versus what the Spurs could have offered (using your numbers) as some insurmountable amount, yet Barry himself signed for $3 million less than what he was offered elsewhere.

You've yet to explain any of this.

It is an insurmountable amount if Jack wasn't willing to budge...under the salary cap. It's a hard cap in that situation.

He wasn't willing to budge the previous offseason, what makes you think he changed?

You assume this whole thing was over nothing more than length of contract...

But I ask how you know that...

What you advocate doing is waiting for Jack to field the best offers at his leisure while all the other decent players get signed...giving Jack the option to be a horses ass and sign elsewhere for more money if he chooses...

Guess what? Didn't you notice that we did that the previous season and got fucked by Jack?

It was only some slick manuevering by the Spurs that enabled us to come out of that offseason with Hedo...

[whottt]

Actually I can think of one argument you should be making which would expand the difference in the first year salaries a little more. But I'll leave it up to you, the league expert, to figure it out.

LOL I am weak when it comes to the cap...and I will be the first to admit it...

But that doesn't change the fact that you haven't proved shit. If you know it, prove it...

Prove that Jack was willing to sign with us for the same he is getting from Indy...

Prove that had we waited on Jack until we lost out on other guys, that Jack would have come here...

Prove the Spurs had the mount of cap space to sign him for what he is making now or what he was asking then...I honestly don't know that for sure...but that is what the board capologists said at the time.

[SPARKY]

Yes it is, because you're making the assumption that Jack had the same feeling concering the tax arguments and assuming Jack felt that way...You are making those statements as if they are a reason Jack would be willing to accept less to play here...IE the same amount as Barry signed for...he didn't sign for the same amount Barry signed for...annually or any other way.

If it's about money for Jack then how do you not factor in taxes? Barry is quite relevant because he took less as a % of a contract offer (nominally) than I am saying Jackson would have. Even before the cost of living issues and other factors we are looking at a $600k difference over the life of a $40 million contract. And that's not even $600k in today's dollars.

Jack was never presented with a 6 year contract offer from the Spurs so you cannot say he would not have taken it. Again and again I have pointed out why the difference between what he signed for and what the Spurs could have offered under the cap rules is minor, at best. You have chosen to simply argue that Jackson signed for nominally more. That is simplistic and naive, to say the least.

Face it, your argument is weak as hell. I don't have nor really care to spend more time here chopping it into finer bits today.

So long, expert.

[whottt]

If it's about money for Jack then how do you not factor in taxes? Barry is quite relevant because he took less as a % of a contract offer (nominally) than I am saying Jackson would have. Even before the cost of living issues and other factors we are looking at a $600k difference over the life of a $40 million contract. And that's not even $600k in today's dollars.

Why do you keep using what Barry did as an example of what Jack was willing to do, would have done, or an example of negotiations that the Spurs could have pursued with him?

Barry isn't Jack...Barry doesn't get suspended for 30 games, and Barry doesn't fuck himself into being forced to play for a lottery team for 1 million.

Did you see Barry arguing with us over the amound like Jack did?

Don't use Barry as an example....because you don't know that lack of state income tax was a factor in Barry's decision...you can't prove Barry wouldn't have made the same decision even if Texas did have a state income tax.

You are talking out of your ass and you have substantiated nothing while making sweeping asumptions.






Jack was never presented with a 6 year contract offer from the Spurs so you cannot say he would not have taken it.

And you don't know that he would have....And how do you know what was discussed? Link?



Again and again I have pointed out why the difference between what he signed for and what the Spurs could have offered under the cap rules is minor, at best. You have chosen to simply argue that Jackson signed for nominally more. That is simplistic and naive, to say the least.

Again you make the assumption that Jax was asking for the same amount from the Spurs that he eventually signed with the Pacers for...

You also make the assumption that Jack is a normal rational human being.

You keep using the fact that Brent Barry took 3 million less, and no state Inc Tax, as some type of justification for why Jax would have also been willing to do so...Jack is a horses ass, so is his agent...he didn't budge the previous season...






Face it, your argument is weak as hell. I don't have nor really care to spend more time here chopping it into finer bits today.

So long, expert.

Ahh...it might not be the strongest argument I have ever had, and if a cap argument was I would be amazed......but it's weak because of the information I don't have...and yours is equally weak for the same reason.

[polandprzem]

Hmm that discusion would make a sens if the Spurs were loosing

[Dario]

Based on his experiance and his role in his previous teams and also on his role in this team so far (not his game, but his contribution as a player) i think barry will step out and save some games if he will be needed, u guys are just to lucky to win them all with 10+. You are getting spoiled imo :)

[boutons]

"that discusion would make a sens if the Spurs were loosing"

Exactly. The Spurs got their "shooter" that so many said was missing when THE SPURS TEAM/COACHING totally fucked up against the Lakers and quit playing that ball they that the had played through a March/April 17-game winining streak.

But the Spurs' "shooter" can't score, but THE SPURS TEAMS/COACHING is off to the best start in franchise history. Even if Brent were hitting his career avg's, what would be different today? We would have beaten TOR?, MEM?, SEA? I'm sure Brent alone would have made no difference in the 4th qtrs @SEA and @TOR, when the entire Spurs team D couldn't stop the other team getting hot.

If Brent starts hitting, fantastic. But the Spurs, "it's all about the TEAM", can win 60 games without his scoring and with the ball handling, playmaking, and break-running that Brent has been doing well.

[whottt]

Good take boutons but we don't know if we have our "shooter" yet, see Danny Ferry, Steve Smith and Hedo.....we'll find out in the playoffs and not before then.

It will take more than Devin...

[T Park]

I hope Barry shoots as well as Ferry did in the playoffs in 01.

He was one of the few that actually gave a shit that year.

[whottt]

LOL, the funny thing is...we just don't realize how bad the Lakers owned our shooters...

The truth is...none of these guys...not Porter, not Ferry, not Hedo,...none of them shot that bad until the opposing jersey was purple and gold. If we took out the LA series in those years we'd probably think those guys shot well in the playoffs.

Guess what? LOL, the purple and gold doesn't look quite like it used too.... :smokin

It's fucking beautiful man.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

First off going by the links you just provided the difference in first year salary is $400k. Assuming you are correct about the $300k left over in cap room now we are talking about a $100k annual difference in salary, or a $600k difference in a contract in the $40 mil range.

Jesus Christ Sparky. 100K over the damn cap is still 100K over the damn cap. It's not like we can write Stern a letter that says



Dear David,

We just need another 100K, it's not a big deal. Who cares if there's a salary cap? It's only 100K.

Signed,

Friends of Jack


Look, what it boils down to is that the amount of money that Jax and his asshole agent were asking for was greater than the difference we had between our committed salaries and the NBA salary cap.

I don't know what's so hard to grasp about that. State income tax, glory, good memories with the franchise...

None of it matters one bit when a player is asking for more money than you have left under the cap.

There is only one person to blame for Stephen Jackson not being a Spur - Stephen Jackson. He let his asshole agent hijack talks with the Spurs, and didn't step in when his agent was cockblocking Pop from talking to Jax.

If Jax would have told his agent to take what the Spurs could offer, he would have been here. His agent felt he could hold out for more elsewhere, and it looks like it paid off.

But throwing the Spurs franchise under the bus on this one is misguided and speaks of an agenda that you have Sparky, and frankly your agenda just doesn't jive with the language of the collective bargaining agreement or the agent of one Stephen Jackson.

Let's end this discussion now, because it's a good two pages of nonsense.

[violentkitten]

poor aggie dont know what he talking about

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

violentkitten
This message is hidden because violentkitten is on your ignore list.

:hat

[violentkitten]

just like an aggie to talk a lot of shit and run

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What's that?


violentkitten
This message is hidden because violentkitten is on your ignore list.

own3d.

[violentkitten]

you ran away like a little bitch yes you are property of violentkitten.

[Dario]

This ignore list thing is getting kinda stupid and most of all boring

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If there wasn't idiots like violentkitten running around who contribute nothing to the forum, the ignore button wouldn't need use.

[wildbill2u]

barry has 4 years left

spurs can not afford to have him suck with rose's contract especially later

spurs should pull the trigger on a good deal involving barry

Assuming that Barry is washed up after 20 games and has no stats--just exactly who do you think is going to trade for his contract with 4 years remaining?

Even the LA Clippers aren't that dumb...er...wait a minute, do they have anyone we'd like?

[bigzak25]

Hopefully with the experience that Barry has he will not need the minutes to find himself. At some point this season the spurs are going to need him, whether it is to hit a big three or to hit clutch free throws(detroit pistons game). Barry knows it is about the team, the best thing for the team is to get Devin in there while he is playing well in order to develop consistency. Same with Beno. I honestly think that down the road all the guys getting playing time are going to have a defining moment. Just like Kerr in 03 in the Mavericks game. It is going to be exciting.


click the quote button on the lower right of desired post, edit as needed.

agree with your post kskonn. also hope the bold holds true. :smokin

[Ghost Writer]

Barry is still getting acclimated to his new team, timvp.

Do not get him confused with Hedo Turkoglu.

Barry will be there when it matters, because he actually gives a d@mn and signed with the Spurs on his own volition.

[ALVAREZ6]

Trade Barry for Hedo. :elephant


Hell No...

:elephant :fro :smokin :drunk :hat

[RobinsontoDuncan]

see thats why your on crack, hedo was such a punk

[Emeyin]

Barry will be fine. Spurs don't need him right now with a couple players playing really well, but they will need him in the future. He still brings alot to the team regardless of his bad shooting and his bad defense.

[Marcus Bryant]

Just think: the Spurs could have had Jack but instead they went with Barry. It's enough to make a balla holla.

:cooldevil

[Im Here Huckleberry]

LOL... All this and it's LESS than 20 games into the season. Yet we have the BEST record in the league.
He may be struggling now but I'm glad he's on the team because he brings more than the average fan can physically see. I think pop also realizes that he's not so young anymore and wouldn't want to wear him out anyway. He's here for the playoffs more so than the regular season.

[ducks]

time to package him and trade him

he faced his former team twice and sucked
steve smith went off on portland

[whottt]

How the hell can you say he sucked when he only played 6 minutes?

You saying that the 6 minutes Barry was in this game impacted the other 42? Bullshit.

We cut the lead to two....who do you blame for us not being able outscore them at a 2 point deficit?

[whottt]

If you want to blame someone blame Pop...he's the one that got outcoached by McMillian the entire first half and then pulled Duncan like we were playing the Bulls or something, so we went right back into the hole again at the beginning of the 4th...had we trapped the in the first half, like we did in the second, we might not have had to come back from 19 down.

Pop got outcoached....it was like the Sonics knew the Spurs defense better than the Spurs did and Pop did nothing about it until halftime.

[ducks]

yes barry played great that is why the great pop never played him in the second half

[whottt]

Then why didn't we win? C'mon ducky we cut it to two in the second half...why didn't we win? Blame Barry for that.

Pop's not immune to stupidity...he traded Steve Kerr away remember?

And the only reason Kerr got playing time in 03 was because Duncan started calling for him.

[ducks]

dude pop got the spurs to come and play in second half
he got it down at halftime
nate got his team to get a big head at half time

[whottt]

Who do you blame for us not being able to take the lead when we were only down by 2 in the second half?

Whose fault is that?

And why didn't Pop have them playing hard the first half?

They were playing hard int he first half...Seattle was slicing our d apart. We started trapping in the second half...but then the stupid subsitutions killed us.

This is on Pop...you don't see the Spurs looking confused very often but it happend for the entire first half of this game...and any D that keeps getting Parker isolated on Lewis needs to be adjusted.

[ducks]

yes benching tp in the 3 quarter was STUPID

[SequSpur]

The Spurs didn't fucking showup. That's not Pop's fault. The Spurs were still at the zoo at 730

[whottt]

And what's Bowen's excuse? That's his whole fucking game is D...and he got buttfucked by Ray Allen the entire first half...How come no one raises hell about his D while he is shooting 1-7 and blowing layups? Yeah he D'ed up in the third...but for a guy whose total role is his D I don't think he justified his minutes or his shots tonight.

[SequSpur]

I hear ya. I am not happy either, however, since I was on the road during most of that first half, I can't break it down for you.

60 = No defense.

[whottt]

It is on Pop....if the entire team comes out flat in a big game...that's got a lot to do with the coaching...and Seattle picked our D apart the entire first half. Spurs kept getting caught out of position time and time again, I don't how many times Parker wound up guarding Lewis...it's obvious Seattle was tricking the D...If we had started trapping in the first half when it was obvious Seattle has our D figured out..we might not have had to come back from 19 down.

In any case...you want to blame Barry for not being good then do so...but don't blame him for this loss...guys who only play 6 minutes don't get blamed for losses.

[SequSpur]

Seattle does create matchup problems. Pop has to put a call into Larry Brown tonight, so he can get this figured out.

[Kori Ellis]

And what's Bowen's excuse? That's his whole fucking game is D...and he got buttfucked by Ray Allen the entire first half

And then he shut him down like a mofo in the 3rd quarter -- which pissed me off even more because I was like WTF could he do that in the first half!?

I'll give Bowen credit for making adjustments at the half. But the defensive effort in the first half was embarrassing.

Btw, props to Pop for benching Rasho.

[whottt]

And then he shut him down like a mofo in the 3rd quarter -- which pissed me off even more because I was like WTF could he do that in the first half!?

I'll give Bowen credit for making adjustments at the half. But the defensive effort in the first half was embarrassing.

Btw, props to Pop for benching Rasho.


I don't hold Bowen responsible for the first half. I hold Pop responsible...I don't know if you guys could see it live as well as we could see it on TV, but the Spurs played basically a new type of D in the second half...they trapped Ridnour and Allen. The first half is on Pop...he just let that wound bleed until half time. My point on Bowen is that I'm trying to make a point about a double standard.

That first half is on Pop...Bowen's D, the whole teams's D, improved when we started trapping Ray Allen and Ridnour at the beginning of the second half. Seattle hated that trap...and we definitely need to utilize it from the get go the next time we face Seattle. They can beat our standard man D...they own it, I don't know how they own it...

Maybe Barry is faxing them the Spurs playbook...but what ever...they own it. They make the Spurs base D look like the Mavs....and it's not a fluke, they did it in game 1, they did it in this game, and I know the Spurs were playing hard when they were down by 19, they could not do anything until they started trapping.


The entire first half of the game I was bitching that Seattle had our D figured out and we needed to do something different...I give Pop credit for coming out with a better game plan...but I give him total blame for not doing it before half time...