'94 - Houston trades Horry to Detroit for Sean Elliot

[Kindergarten Cop]

If not for a failed physical, our history would look a LOT different right now. Perhaps no '99 or '05 titles. :oops

http://www.dailybreeze.com/sports/articles/8795012.html

Horry benefited from failed trade

A deal that fell through gave "Big Shot Rob" the confidence to hoist more 3-pointers and he's since helped the Lakers, Spurs and Rockets win seven NBA titles.
By Ramona Shelburne
Staff writer

Sometimes the best trades are the ones that aren't made. That was the case for Robert Horry.

In 1994, the Houston Rockets traded Horry and Matt Bullard to the Detroit Pistons for veteran sharpshooter Sean Elliott. Horry was shocked, Bullard was angry and Elliott, well, he was about to flunk a physical because of kidney problems.

When that happened, the trade was rescinded. Everyone got back on a plane, flew home and tried to pretend it never happened.

Not Horry.

"It probably saved my career," he said. "I came back knowing that the reason they traded me was for not shooting the basketball enough.

"So once I came back, they were going to have to tell me to stop shooting."

The rest is NBA history. "Big Shot Rob" has won seven NBA titles, one of only nine players in league history to do so and the only one of the nine who wasn't a member of the Boston Celtics in the 1960s.

Three of those titles came with the Lakers. During that three-year championship run (2000-02), Horry made a clinching 3-pointer in four straight playoff series, beginning with the 2001 NBA Finals against Philadelphia.

Without that failed trade to Detroit, would Horry have had the guts to take the 3-pointer at the end of Game 4 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals to beat Sacramento, or the poise to drain the shot that gave the Lakers a four-point lead with 47seconds left in Game 3 of the 2001 Finals?

Without that failed trade to Detroit, would he have hit the 3-pointer at the end of overtime to give the Spurs a 96-95 victory over the Pistons in Game 6 of the 2005 NBA Finals?

Without that trade, would he have passed the ball to a Kobe Bryant or a Tim Duncan instead?

Would he have ended up as Big Shot Rob or just another Bob?

[spursparker9]

spurs should retire horry's jersey

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Elliott

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And yea we should retire his jersey.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Elliott

My bad. :oops

[exstatic]

..or maybe that trade changes Houston's chemistry and THEY don't win? Horry hit some big fucking shots for them. Subtract those...and????

[Obstructed_View]

Horry was a different player after that non-trade.

[missmyzte]

Without that failed trade to Detroit, would he have hit the 3-pointer at the end of overtime to give the Spurs a 96-95 victory over the Pistons in Game 6 of the 2005 NBA Finals?
I hate when writers don't take the time to check their facts, it was Game 5 of the Finals, not Game 6.

[jdaveah]

If this trade happened people would look back on Patrick Ewing's career very differently.

[whottt]

If Horry was in Detroit and Elliott was in Houston, the Spurs probably win the 95 NBA Championship.


Horry hit the game winner in game 1 of the 95 WCF(the only shot he made that game), Elliott choked the game winning FT's in game 1.


No way does the Orlando team beat the Spurs...they wouldn't have doubled Drob and would have tried to guard him with Shaq...Drob would have had Shaq spending a lot of time on the bench.

[whottt]

No way does the Orlando team beat the Spurs...they wouldn't have doubled Drob and would have tried to guard him with Shaq...Drob would have had Shaq spending a lot of time on the bench.



Just in case anyone wants to contest this...at that time Drob freaking owned Shaq...like 6-1 in HTH matchups...the Spurs lost to the Rockets 4-2...they lost the first game due to an Elliott choke and Horry clutch shot...Orlando got swept by the Rockets.

[timvp]

If Horry was in Detroit and Elliott was in Houston, the Spurs probably win the 95 NBA Championship.


Horry hit the game winner in game 1 of the 95 WCF(the only shot he made that game), Elliott choked the game winning FT's in game 1. Uh, who would've fill Elliott's spot on the Spurs? Bill Curley?

[whottt]

Uh, who would've fill Elliott's spot on the Spurs? Bill Curley?


How can you say it wouldn't have been Robert Horry?

Elliott was a much better statistical player at that point...



Get defensive all you want...but Elliott choked. He did that a lot prior to the MDM.

I know...I am a hater because I won't lie to myself.




Edit: The Spurs would not have traded Billy Curley for Robert Horry if timvp were the gm...

Since it is well documented that, according to timvp, any player who doesn't shoot enough is a gutless pussy choking wimp.



Link? Do a forum search for author: timvp, text/subject: Barry

[whottt]

Drob held AJ and Sean down[/timvp]

[whottt]

..

And shouldn't you be more worried about your fantasy baseball team than decade old trades that didn't go through? Would have been nice to have a halfway decent performance from your team this week instead of that laydown job they did.

[T Park]

whottt on his typical tear down everyone around DRob tirades.

[whottt]

Ok...Elliott didn't choke in game 1 of the 95 Finals....5 year veteran, 80%+ career FT%...misses both, only needed one to stave off a loss. Not a choke whatsoever.

Without him we would have never won a title. He's the key to it all.

Last second three he hit in game 2 of a series we were leading 1-0 and eventually swept is the key to everything the Spurs have done since.


Happy now?

[J.T.]

The real hero of the Spurs is Beno.

Without him, do we win '05 and '07?

I don't think so.

Beno for MVP.

[J.T.]

Elliott

I'm convinced the notorious "Elliot" typo is due to it being typoed that way in NBA Jam and NBA Hang Time.

And the increasing availability of the internet leading to the downfall of mankind's intelligence.

[Dreamshake]

If Horry was in Detroit and Elliott was in Houston, the Spurs probably win the 95 NBA Championship.


Horry hit the game winner in game 1 of the 95 WCF(the only shot he made that game), Elliott choked the game winning FT's in game 1.


No way does the Orlando team beat the Spurs...they wouldn't have doubled Drob and would have tried to guard him with Shaq...Drob would have had Shaq spending a lot of time on the bench.


Ha Ha Ha Ha.


MWHAAAA HAAAAA.


Ok for serious now. Hakeem, who's game absolutely dominated D Rob that year, didnt end up putting Shaq on the Bench. What makes you think Drobs Traditional back to the basket, facing up from 10 would of put Shaq in foul Trouble?

[SRJ]

I think it's a fair question - who is our small forward in 1995 if the Horry/Elliott trade in 1994 goes through?

The 1994 Spurs were Robinson, Rodman, a good shooter in Dale Ellis, and many, many holes; does adding Avery, Doc, and Person make them a WCF team? I don't think so.

Elliott choked on that FT, but I don't think we win 62 games and get to the WCF without him.

[whottt]

Ha Ha Ha Ha.


MWHAAAA HAAAAA.


Ok for serious now. Hakeem, who's game absolutely dominated D Rob that year, didnt end up putting Shaq on the Bench. What makes you think Drobs Traditional back to the basket, facing up from 10 would of put Shaq in foul Trouble?


In Drob's first 7 years in the NBA he only finished lower than second in FTA one time...that was the year he missed the last 3 weeks of the regular season....he finished fourth.

By contrast...in Hakeem's entire career he only finished higher than 7th in FTA one time...5th. His best ever.


In conclusion...you're an idiot, who never saw David Robinson or Hakeem play.


You didn't even watch the 2001 playoffs when the Spurs ran the offense through Drob, for the first time in 4 years in game 3...and he still had Shaq in foul trouble by half time.


Drob was one of the best in NBA history at getting to the FT line...like on of the 3 best ever...Hakeem wasn't.

That's why teams doubled Drob more than the other guys...because if you put a single defender on him the fouls were easier to see...and it wreaked havok on your bigman rotation.




And btw...Drob averaged about 16 FT per game against the Rockets in the 94-95 WC Finals...how many did Hakeem average?

Figure that out and you'll learn 2 things...#1. There was no way Hakeem was the primary defender on DRob...

And #2. Another reason we probably win the NBA title in 95 if Horry isn't on that Rockets team.

[whottt]

I think it's a fair question - who is our small forward in 1995 if the Horry/Elliott trade in 1994 goes through?

Let's see...in 92-93 the Spurs won 49 games with Elliott and AJ.


They subtracted both of them for the 93-94 season and replaced them with absolute fucking scrubs...and added Rodman.


The Spurs won 55 games...6 more after subtracting Elliott and AJ.


Now subtract David Robinson from AJ and Elliott and what do you get?


You get Tim Duncan, the worst record in team history, and the biggest negative single season turnaround in NBA history.


That's what you get.



OTOH...

Why wouldn't it be Horry? If the Pistons gave up Elliott for Curley why wouldn't they give up Horry?

Elliott was far and away a statistically superior player






Elliott choked on that FT, but I don't think we win 62 games and get to the WCF without him.


I think we do...unless of course we played Utah before getting to the WCF...

[whottt]

I don't know if we would have won...

I just know it would have been nice to be the team that had the guy hit a game winner with his only made shot of the game rather than the team that had an 80% career FT shooter give away game 1...

By missing 2 FT's...not 1, 2.


I like Elliott, he's a good human being and a Spur to the core, I supported his jersey for retirement....but he choked, and he wasn't anything close to clutch prior to the MDM.


Elliott was great numbers but no impact in big moments...Horry was crappy numbers but huge impact in big moments.


Horry went on to play a major role in countless other NBA Championship runs...

The only thing Elliott ever did away from the Spurs was beg to come back.


Let's not make Sean into something he's not...what he did stands on it's own merit and he deserves to have his jersery retired...he was a Spur to the core, and his story is an inspirational and courageous one, ...but he did choke in those finals...and he was seldom an impact player despite his talent and numbers.

[T Park]

Ok...Elliott didn't choke in game 1 of the 95 Finals....5 year veteran, 80%+ career FT%...misses both, only needed one to stave off a loss. Not a choke whatsoever.

Without him we would have never won a title. He's the key to it all.

Last second three he hit in game 2 of a series we were leading 1-0 and eventually swept is the key to everything the Spurs have done since.


Happy now?


I just don't get how you can suck the fucking rotting cock of Brent fuckass Barry

but don't like Sean Elliott and Michael "we wouldn't have made it out of the first round without him" Finley

[whottt]

I just don't get how you can suck the fucking rotting cock of Brent fuckass Barry

If we'd had Brent Barry instead of Vinny in 95 we probably beat the Rockets too...there definitely would have been fewer doubles on Drob.



And I haven't ever seen Brent choke game winning FT's....have you?




but don't like Sean Elliott and Michael "we wouldn't have made it out of the first round without him" Finley



And you just took a bigger piss on Elliott than I ever have by putting him in the same sentence with Finley.


Oh...and using that logic...we probably don't make it out of the first round in 06 without Barry.



You're a pathetic fuck because you thinking making it out of the first round is something the Spurs couldn't do without Finley. We fucking added him to a championship team and became chokers. And what did he do in the Finals? Scored 3ppg in about 20 mpg.

[whottt]

I just don't get how you can suck the fucking rotting cock of Brent fuckass Barry

but don't like Sean Elliott and Michael "we wouldn't have made it out of the first round without him" Finley


And BTW, you're another fucker that would do well to worry about his fantasy baseball team and not arguments about decade old failed trades...

Why don't you do something to help other than pick up Scott Rolen...like cut some fucking pitching.

[T Park]

fantasy baseball smack?

How intelligent.

[timvp]

How can you say it wouldn't have been Robert Horry?Because he would have been on the Pistons.

whottt is posting like he's in some crack induced basketball coma.

[timvp]

Drob held AJ and Sean down[/timvp]

Link?

You've lost your mind to the point that you think if the Rockets would have replaced Horry with Elliott and the Spurs would have replaced Elliott with nobody, that the Spurs would have faired better.

Be sure to tip your nurses.

[timvp]

And shouldn't you be more worried about your fantasy baseball team than decade old trades that didn't go through? Would have been nice to have a halfway decent performance from your team this week instead of that laydown job they did.

Yeah, I'm sure timvp is really taking that fantasy baseball league seriously considering that everyone he drafted was from the Dominican Republic and every free agent he's picked up has been from the Dominican Republic. Even given that, timvp can't accomplish the 20th out of 20 teams that whottt accomplished two years in a row in the fantasy basketball league. In fact, timvp stays in the playoff race with both arms tied behind his back.

Perhaps you can stick to baseball where you can at least be in the middle of the pack. 20th out of 20 teams two years in a row in fantasy basketball is a good sign that perhaps you don't know as much about basketball as you think you do.

[timvp]

Oh and don't make me lay down an ownage that has you retire from not only the thread, but the entire forum for five days like last time.

[Obstructed_View]

I could swear the Spurs drafted Curley for the Pistons, so he probably wouldn't have been the Spurs' pick. Elliott would have made the Rockets better than they were with the pre-trade Horry, but not much, because Sean was not aggressive enough and got the yips in big situations. With Rodman leaving his assignment all series long, somebody probably would have hit those threes.

[whottt]

Because he would have been on the Pistons.

whottt is posting like he's in some crack induced basketball coma.



And why wouldn't the Pisons have traded Horry for Curley?


Elliott was a better player statistically than Horry.

[ShoogarBear]

And why wouldn't the Pisons have traded Horry for Curley?


Elliott was a better player statistically than Horry.Maybe they would have been happier with Horry than Sean.

That trade aws made not because of stats, but because the Pistons didn't like Elliotts attitude/health/toughness what have you.

Not only that, but why would the Spurs ever have wanted to trade for Horry at that time? If Elliott hadn't been an ex-Spur they wouldn't have traded to get him back.

[whottt]

Big Ole Dominican EXCUSE.



What's classic is that you are the Mark Cuban of D-League One and still have the audacity to attempt to smack the teams of others...wake me when the Mr. Mavericks win something...winning 195 games and then choking in the finals isn't exactly bolstering your credibility to speak on the subject at hand in this thread.



At least the reason my team didn't win was because it sucked...what was your excuse?

[whottt]

Maybe they would have been happier with Horry than Sean.

That trade aws made not because of stats, but because the Pistons didn't like Elliotts attitude/health/toughness what have you.

Not only that, but why would the Spurs ever have wanted to trade for Horry at that time? If Elliott hadn't been an ex-Spur they wouldn't have traded to get him back.


Yeah but he was coming off an All Star Campaign when they traded for him IIRC....statistically he was way better than Horry. Even when he sucked that year his stats were comparable to Horry's....

Curley was a PF, they thought he was the second coming of Bill Lambeir or something...I don't see why they wouldn't have still done the trade.


If Elliott had torn it up that year they wouldn't have been trading him for Curley, I don't care how unhappy he was...yet the Rockets almost traded Horry for a sucking Elliott...

I think the Pistons would have still done the trade.


Plus...you act like Horry tolerates losing or something...a few towels in Daly's(*or whoever's) face and he'd have been on the outs as bad as Elliott was. That's why Rodman was traded to the Spurs in the first place.

[kingmalaki]

In Drob's first 7 years in the NBA he only finished lower than second in FTA one time...that was the year he missed the last 3 weeks of the regular season....he finished fourth.

By contrast...in Hakeem's entire career he only finished higher than 7th in FTA one time...5th. His best ever.


In conclusion...you're an idiot, who never saw David Robinson or Hakeem play.


You didn't even watch the 2001 playoffs when the Spurs ran the offense through Drob, for the first time in 4 years in game 3...and he still had Shaq in foul trouble by half time.


Drob was one of the best in NBA history at getting to the FT line...like on of the 3 best ever...Hakeem wasn't.

That's why teams doubled Drob more than the other guys...because if you put a single defender on him the fouls were easier to see...and it wreaked havok on your bigman rotation.




And btw...Drob averaged about 16 FT per game against the Rockets in the 94-95 WC Finals...how many did Hakeem average?

Figure that out and you'll learn 2 things...#1. There was no way Hakeem was the primary defender on DRob...

And #2. Another reason we probably win the NBA title in 95 if Horry isn't on that Rockets team.

Robinson got more calls than Hakeem because he had star power, and Hakeem didn't. The NBA is a stars league. Hakeem had a general lack of respect for the majority of his career until he destroyed the best centers in the game in the 94 and 95 title runs....so folks had no choice but to change their opinions on him.

And yes, Hakeem was the primary defender on D-Rob in 95. Who are you saying held him....Robert Horry? We traded away the only other reliable big for Drexler (Thorpe). Occassionaly we used old man Jones for fouls when Hakeem needed a breather.

[whottt]

Just STFU...if I had a dollar for stupid fuck homer Rocket fan sticking his fat fucking nose into SpursTalk posts to suck Hakeem's dick I'd be a rich man.


No one gives a fuck...about your shitty suck ass team, about the toilet you call a city...or about dumb fuck turd that is you...or about that lazy ass bitch that tanked away half his career...and even he didn't want to finish in Choke City.

No one cares RocketFan...take that shit to chokecity.net...go argue with people that give a shit...about your team, about Hakeem...

[Peter]

Robinson got more calls than Hakeem because he had star power, and Hakeem didn't. The NBA is a stars league. Hakeem had a general lack of respect for the majority of his career until he destroyed the best centers in the game in the 94 and 95 title runs....so folks had no choice but to change their opinions on him.

And yes, Hakeem was the primary defender on D-Rob in 95. Who are you saying held him....Robert Horry? We traded away the only other reliable big for Drexler (Thorpe). Occassionaly we used old man Jones for fouls when Hakeem needed a breather.

I've seen it all now.

[Dreamshake]

Just STFU...if I had a dollar for stupid fuck homer Rocket fan sticking his fat fucking nose into SpursTalk posts to suck Hakeem's dick I'd be a rich man.


No one gives a fuck...about your shitty suck ass team, about the toilet you call a city...or about dumb fuck turd that is you...or about that lazy ass bitch that tanked away half his career...and even he didn't want to finish in Choke City.

No one cares RocketFan...take that shit to chokecity.net...go argue with people that give a shit...about your team, about Hakeem...


First of all shit head, Robinson couldnt and didnt lead his team to any titles. Not till Tim came around did he ride the coattails to one.

Secondly, stupid. Hakeem Owned Robinson in their 95 "mvp" showdown. NO the Rox DID not double Robinson, and no Shaq never had to have a double team to "hold down" Robinson either.

Ive been watching Ball since you were a seed in your daddy's sack. Back When Moses was a Rocket and Gervin was the second smoothest MOFO from within five feet of the hoop next to Dr J.

You use NO facts to back your asininely idiotic claims. Like in 2001's playoff. Remind me of ho many times Shaq fouled out in that series? Remind me who got swept in that series. Moron. Let me help you out.

The Rox beat up the Best team in the League that year in the Spurs. Hakeem, pretty much single handidly crushed the Spurs that series. I mean unless you think averaging 36 PPG isnt getting it done.

DRob was handed Hakeems MVP that year, and then took the anal beating in that series. Sorry, two missed freethrows from Sean didnt make that series. Unless the three other games the Rox won were flukes too. Either way, until Tim came around DRob was know for NOTHING other than putting up good numbers and never delivering a championship. Good thing Tim came around when he did.

[timvp]

And why wouldn't the Pisons have traded Horry for Curley?


Elliott was a better player statistically than Horry.Did you just start watching basketball?

Here's a refresher course:

-Elliott gets traded to Detroit.

-Elliott's kidney problems hurt his effectiveness but yet go undiagnosed.

-Elliott is an outcast from the team, with his main adversary being Isiah Thomas.

-Elliott is diagnosed with his kidney ailment. He keeps it a secret. Detroit media floats a rumor that Elliott has AIDS.

-Ineffective season ends. Pistons want to trade Elliott but Elliott has a no trade clause in his contract. Elliott tells the Pistons he'd either except a trade to the Spurs or the Suns.

-Suns are not interested because their doctors won't clear him. The Spurs are bidding against themselves and get Elliott for Bill Curley.

You really think the same scenario would have played out for Robert Horry? Or is this all news to you because you were a Mav Fan at the time?

[timvp]

What's classic is that you are the Mark Cuban of D-League One and still have the audacity to attempt to smack the teams of others...wake me when the Mr. Mavericks win something...winning 195 games and then choking in the finals isn't exactly bolstering your credibility to speak on the subject at hand in this thread.

At least the reason my team didn't win was because it sucked...what was your excuse?

Um. I won the year before in the tougher league. In two years with two teams, I have a first, second, third and a sixth.

You have a 20th out of 20 and a 20th out of 20.

Still want to compare?

And what's funny in the baseball league is you pick up Dominican's just to block me from getting them ... yet, you still aren't going to win anything. :rollin

[jackseven]

First of all shit head, Robinson couldnt and didnt lead his team to any titles. Not till Tim came around did he ride the coattails to one.

Secondly, stupid. Hakeem Owned Robinson in their 95 "mvp" showdown. NO the Rox DID not double Robinson, and no Shaq never had to have a double team to "hold down" Robinson either.

Ive been watching Ball since you were a seed in your daddy's sack. Back When Moses was a Rocket and Gervin was the second smoothest MOFO from within five feet of the hoop next to Dr J.

You use NO facts to back your asininely idiotic claims. Like in 2001's playoff. Remind me of ho many times Shaq fouled out in that series? Remind me who got swept in that series. Moron. Let me help you out.

The Rox beat up the Best team in the League that year in the Spurs. Hakeem, pretty much single handidly crushed the Spurs that series. I mean unless you think averaging 36 PPG isnt getting it done.

DRob was handed Hakeems MVP that year, and then took the anal beating in that series. Sorry, two missed freethrows from Sean didnt make that series. Unless the three other games the Rox won were flukes too. Either way, until Tim came around DRob was know for NOTHING other than putting up good numbers and never delivering a championship. Good thing Tim came around when he did.


Look at the supporting casts. Hakeem has so much talent around him the Rockets didn't know who they wanted to score.

The Spurs had a lameduck coach and the likes of Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro getting major minutes.

The Spurs got one of the top 5 gifted players ever and let him waste away with nothing surrounding him.

JR Reid
old TC
Willie Chill Anderson
Charles Smith
post Pacers Chuck Person
Antonie Big Puppy Carr
Brad Lohaus
Lloyd Sweet Pea Daniels

Damn anyone try to lead a team to the titles with those players.

And I don't like to say it because I'm an Elliott fan but he's a little inflated because of the Memorial Day Miracle. He was ok, but nothing close to a big sidekick like Drexler, Penny, Kobe, Pippen.

[kingmalaki]

Look at the supporting casts. Hakeem has so much talent around him the Rockets didn't know who they wanted to score.

The Spurs had a lameduck coach and the likes of Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro getting major minutes.

The Spurs got one of the top 5 gifted players ever and let him waste away with nothing surrounding him.

JR Reid
old TC
Willie Chill Anderson
Charles Smith
post Pacers Chuck Person
Antonie Big Puppy Carr
Brad Lohaus
Lloyd Sweet Pea Daniels

Damn anyone try to lead a team to the titles with those players.

And I don't like to say it because I'm an Elliott fan but he's a little inflated because of the Memorial Day Miracle. He was ok, but nothing close to a big sidekick like Drexler, Penny, Kobe, Pippen.

Over the course of their careers I would say Robinson played with more help than Hakeem, up until 1995. Hakeem did have more help on the 95 team, mainly due to the addition of Drexler.

Elliott was a nice player. So was Rod Strickland. So was Rodman. So was Del Negro. Robinson had enough surrounding talent to have the best record in basketball in 95. The Spurs lost because Hakeem went NBA Live on him. The other players were getting open shots because Hakeem couldn't be contained.

I can also list the multiple scrubs that Hakeem played with after his original team was decimated by drugs and injuries.

[SRJ]

Over the course of their careers I would say Robinson played with more help than Hakeem, up until 1995. Hakeem did have more help on the 95 team, mainly due to the addition of Drexler.

Elliott was a nice player. So was Rod Strickland. So was Rodman. So was Del Negro. Robinson had enough surrounding talent to have the best record in basketball in 95. The Spurs lost because Hakeem went NBA Live on him. The other players were getting open shots because Hakeem couldn't be contained.

First of all, I think Hakeem was the better player, so I'm not trying to use this to boost Robinson ahead of him.

But you can't be serious about the talent around both guys. Let's look at the supporting casts, starting in the 1992-1993 season (players receiving significant minutes):

Olajuwon / Robinson (Rockets>)
Maxwell / Ellis (Spurs>)
K. Smith / A. Johnson (Rockets>)
Thorpe / Carr (Rockets>)
Horry (R) / Elliott (Spurs>)
Herrera / Reid (=)
Bullard / Daniels (Rockets>)
S. Brooks / Del Negro (Spurs>)

Unless I'm wrong (and this was based upon their performances that year, not for their careers), the Rockets cast was better in 1993. How about 1994?

Olajuwon / Robinson (=)
Thorpe / Rodman (=)
Maxwell / W. Anderson (=)
K. Smith / Del Negro (=)
Horry / Ellis (=)
Elie / N. Knight (Rockets>)
Herrera / Reid (=)

I could only compare the top seven directly - the Rockets had nine guys with 1000+ minutes, the Spurs eight; furthermore, the last two Rockets were guards (S. Brooks and Cassell (R)), while the Spurs eighth man was a forward (Cummings). Considering that these two teams finished three games apart, it shouldn't surprise that each pair of player's production was very similar, albeit in different ways: Rodman was a dominant defensive player, Thorpe was a very effective player as a scorer-rebounder. Ellis was a good scorer, Horry did everything else. Maxwell scored well, Willie Anderson did everything else. Surprisingly, at least to me, Del Negro and Kenny Smith's production were very similar; while I think Smith was the better player, he wasn't decisively better that season. Herrera and Reid played more or less the same role, but Mario Elie had a better season than Negele Knight did. Maybe that accounted for the three games.

I won't dispute that Robinson had better surrounding talent in 1990 through 1992 (1992 is somewhat arguable), but (especially) in 1993 and (slightly) in 1994 the Rockets had the better cast.

[sandman]

First of all shit head, Robinson couldnt and didnt lead his team to any titles. Not till Tim came around did he ride the coattails to one.

Secondly, stupid. Hakeem Owned Robinson in their 95 "mvp" showdown. NO the Rox DID not double Robinson, and no Shaq never had to have a double team to "hold down" Robinson either.

Ive been watching Ball since you were a seed in your daddy's sack. Back When Moses was a Rocket and Gervin was the second smoothest MOFO from within five feet of the hoop next to Dr J.

You use NO facts to back your asininely idiotic claims. Like in 2001's playoff. Remind me of ho many times Shaq fouled out in that series? Remind me who got swept in that series. Moron. Let me help you out.

The Rox beat up the Best team in the League that year in the Spurs. Hakeem, pretty much single handidly crushed the Spurs that series. I mean unless you think averaging 36 PPG isnt getting it done.

DRob was handed Hakeems MVP that year, and then took the anal beating in that series. Sorry, two missed freethrows from Sean didnt make that series. Unless the three other games the Rox won were flukes too. Either way, until Tim came around DRob was know for NOTHING other than putting up good numbers and never delivering a championship. Good thing Tim came around when he did.

Yawn...

"Back to Back Titles" and "Hakeem Schooled David" are soooo 1995...

Have you guys EVER thanked MJ for having a gambling problem?

[sandman]

Yawn...

"Back to Back Titles" and "Hakeem Schooled David" are soooo 1995...

Have you guys EVER thanked MJ for having a gambling problem?

I know I shouldn't quote myself, but just putting some facts behind the team dynamics of Hakeem's dominance and the Rocket's "dynasty":

1985: lost 1st round 3-2
1986: lost in NBA Finals 4-2
1987: lost in conf semis 4-2
1988: lost in first round 3-1
1989: lost in first round 3-1
1990: lost in first round 3-1
1991: lost in first round 3-0
1992: missed playoffs
1993: lost in conf semis 4-3
1994: NBA Champs 4-3
1995: NBA Champs 4-0
1996: lost in conf semis 4-0
1997: lost in conf finals 4-2
1998: lost in first round 3-2
1999: lost in first round 3-1
2000: missed playoffs
2001: missed playoffs

There are only 4 total seasons that Hakeem and the Rockets advanced past the second round, and three of those came in a four year span.

The Rockets were never relevant outside of those two Title years. But they were a dynasty because they repeated, and Hakeem schooled David... :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[Peter]

Ah yes, Houston Sports Fan Dementia.

[kingmalaki]

First of all, I think Hakeem was the better player, so I'm not trying to use this to boost Robinson ahead of him.

But you can't be serious about the talent around both guys. Let's look at the supporting casts, starting in the 1992-1993 season (players receiving significant minutes):

Olajuwon / Robinson (Rockets>)
Maxwell / Ellis (Spurs>)
K. Smith / A. Johnson (Rockets>)
Thorpe / Carr (Rockets>)
Horry (R) / Elliott (Spurs>)
Herrera / Reid (=)
Bullard / Daniels (Rockets>)
S. Brooks / Del Negro (Spurs>)

Unless I'm wrong (and this was based upon their performances that year, not for their careers), the Rockets cast was better in 1993. How about 1994?

Olajuwon / Robinson (=)
Thorpe / Rodman (=)
Maxwell / W. Anderson (=)
K. Smith / Del Negro (=)
Horry / Ellis (=)
Elie / N. Knight (Rockets>)
Herrera / Reid (=)

I could only compare the top seven directly - the Rockets had nine guys with 1000+ minutes, the Spurs eight; furthermore, the last two Rockets were guards (S. Brooks and Cassell (R)), while the Spurs eighth man was a forward (Cummings). Considering that these two teams finished three games apart, it shouldn't surprise that each pair of player's production was very similar, albeit in different ways: Rodman was a dominant defensive player, Thorpe was a very effective player as a scorer-rebounder. Ellis was a good scorer, Horry did everything else. Maxwell scored well, Willie Anderson did everything else. Surprisingly, at least to me, Del Negro and Kenny Smith's production were very similar; while I think Smith was the better player, he wasn't decisively better that season. Herrera and Reid played more or less the same role, but Mario Elie had a better season than Negele Knight did. Maybe that accounted for the three games.

I won't dispute that Robinson had better surrounding talent in 1990 through 1992 (1992 is somewhat arguable), but (especially) in 1993 and (slightly) in 1994 the Rockets had the better cast.

I honestly don't know if I can give you 92/93. Our main players were Hakeem, Thorpe, Maxwell, Smith and Horry (who was a rookie). The main bench players were Herrera, Bullard and Sleepy Floyd. The Spurs had Robinson, Elliott, Ellis and Carr. Your bench wasn't all that either, but those squads look pretty even to me.

93/94 you lost Elliott but got Rodman. We picked up a rookie Cassell and Elie. I would still say those were pretty even squads. Then again, I consider Rodman to be a HOF type player if you don't consider the off the court antics.

[Holt's Cat]

Houston had Hakeem, Drexler, Horry, and Cassell in '95, plus Elie. Spurs had DRob, Elliott, and Rodman.

The long and short of it was that the Spurs' perimeter game was lacking, and predictably, they were dropped before the Finals.

[ambchang]

I honestly don't know if I can give you 92/93. Our main players were Hakeem, Thorpe, Maxwell, Smith and Horry (who was a rookie). The main bench players were Herrera, Bullard and Sleepy Floyd. The Spurs had Robinson, Elliott, Ellis and Carr. Your bench wasn't all that either, but those squads look pretty even to me.

93/94 you lost Elliott but got Rodman. We picked up a rookie Cassell and Elie. I would still say those were pretty even squads. Then again, I consider Rodman to be a HOF type player if you don't consider the off the court antics.
Thorpe was an all-star, Elliott was an all-star. Outside of that, Maxwell, Smith and Horry were all better than anything the Spurs had at that point. All Ellis could do was shoot the 3 (terrible defender, awful rebouder), and he didn't even shot that well in the playoffs that year. Carr was big, and ..... what else is there? Did you also noticed that all the decent players were forwards? How about Avery Johnson (who was cut by Houston the year before)? Vinny Del Negro? Who could spread the floor? Who could bring the ball upcout and run the offense? Who can play defense outside of Robinson and Elliott? The other team's SG and SF blew past Del Negro and Ellis at will, and the PGs can post up AJ all day.
Lloyd Daniels as your saviour? Jerry Tarkanian as your coach? That was without question the worst Spurs team in the Robinson era, and it wasn't even close.
But guess what? Robinson took them to 49 wins, and still made the playoffs.

[J.T.]

I'm looking forward to watching whottt vs timvp on the next UFC ppv.

[Findog]

First of all shit head, Robinson couldnt and didnt lead his team to any titles. Not till Tim came around did he ride the coattails to one.

Secondly, stupid. Hakeem Owned Robinson in their 95 "mvp" showdown. NO the Rox DID not double Robinson, and no Shaq never had to have a double team to "hold down" Robinson either.

Ive been watching Ball since you were a seed in your daddy's sack. Back When Moses was a Rocket and Gervin was the second smoothest MOFO from within five feet of the hoop next to Dr J.

You use NO facts to back your asininely idiotic claims. Like in 2001's playoff. Remind me of ho many times Shaq fouled out in that series? Remind me who got swept in that series. Moron. Let me help you out.

The Rox beat up the Best team in the League that year in the Spurs. Hakeem, pretty much single handidly crushed the Spurs that series. I mean unless you think averaging 36 PPG isnt getting it done.

DRob was handed Hakeems MVP that year, and then took the anal beating in that series. Sorry, two missed freethrows from Sean didnt make that series. Unless the three other games the Rox won were flukes too. Either way, until Tim came around DRob was know for NOTHING other than putting up good numbers and never delivering a championship. Good thing Tim came around when he did.

Whott also thinks the Iraq War is a good idea. You're just wasting keystrokes on a retarded douche.