One more reason the Suns will never overtake the Spurs

[SenorSpur]

Lost in all the offseason whining about Robert Horry, Tim Donahgy and other league conspiracy theories that have seemingly kept the Suns from winning the NBA championship, the one overlooked aspect that has likely contributed to their shortcoming is team chemistry - or the lack thereof.

It seems that Shawn Marion is again at the center of it.

Here's an article that explains it in more detail.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/48033/20070913/are_the_suns_growing_tired_of_marion/

Are The Suns Growing Tired Of Marion?
September 13, 2007 - 11:06 am
East Valley Tribune -

The Suns aren’t thrilled with Shawn Marion, the businessman, and that’s why the Marion for Andrei Kirilenko trade rumor can’t be summarily dismissed.

The Suns don’t want to trade Marion. They know their best chance to win a championship this season is to keep the Marion-Steve Nash-Amaré Stoudemire triumvirate together.

But Marion’s constant whining about being third in the pecking order is wearing on the Suns. They’re tired of hearing how he’s not respected when he’ll make the most money on the team this season ($16.4 million), he led Phoenix in minutes played last year and took 100 more shots than Nash and 16 more than Stoudemire.

Not to mention the three straight All-Star appearances, the invitation to play for the Olympic team, the Nike Air Force 25 commercial in which he gets equal billing with Kobe Bryant and LeBron James, and the cover of ESPN The Magazine.

We should all be so disrespected.

It’s been suggested that the Suns want to trade Marion because they think he’ll opt out of his contract after this season and become a free agent, leaving them empty-handed. Actually, Phoenix isn’t worried about that at all. As good as Marion is, no team is going to give him a contract that starts at $17.8 million (his salary for the 2007-08 season). That kind of money is reserved for superstars. And for all of Marion’s talents, he’s a complementary player, not someone who can lead a team.

But there is concern among the Suns coaching staff and front office that Marion’s grousing will become even louder if Grant Hill gets some of his shots and publicity.

Already, Marion’s jealousy of Stoudemire threatens the chemistry in the locker room. A Slam magazine reporter recently asked Marion if he was watching Stoudemire in the FIBA Americas tournament in Las Vegas. “Nope,” Marion said. Then he sat there, silent, until the next question was asked.

Memo to Suns fans: Denial is not just a river in Egypt. It's been proven over time. It's very difficult to achieve team success when the components are not "on the same page." If I were a Suns fan, I wouldn't take these chemistry issues lightly.

[duncan228]

Conversation here:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77592

[Shred]

Obsession upon obsession. Already posted in another forum. Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

*

[FromWayDowntown]

Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

Say what you want, but the series ended with the Spurs owning 2 more wins than the Suns.

Oh yeah -- I nearly forgot that the season ended with the Spurs owning 4 more titles than the Suns.

[raspsa]

Obsession upon obsession. Already posted in another forum. Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

*
Refusal to accept reality, the biggest reason the Suns will only go so far... :elephant

[J.T.]

Obsession upon obsession. Already posted in another forum. Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

*

This isn't the NFL, still takes 4 to win.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The suns chances dies the moment they got rid of Kurt Thomas. They have no chance unless Duncan gets hurt.

[Mister Sinister]

Obsession upon obsession. Already posted in another forum. Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

*
Lame troll is laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

[Shred]

Next scheduled Suns thread started by an obsessed Spur fan: Tuesday, 9/18/07 at 1600 hours.

[Shred]

The suns chances dies the moment they got rid of Kurt Thomas. They have no chance unless Duncan gets hurt.

Uh, gee, ya think?

[ChumpDumper]

Next scheduled visit to spurboard by obsessed sunfan: oh, you're early.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Obsession upon obsession. Already posted in another forum. Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

*

No. The series was lost because a few impulsive and stupid players on your team couldn't follow simple rules. This is a fact.

[IceColdBrewski]

Obsession upon obsession.


Um...pot, meet kettle. You're a Suns fan who spends practically 24 hours a day here just waiting to pounce on anyone who even farts in the direction of Phoenix.

Glass houses.

[MrChug]

Obsession upon obsession. Already posted in another forum. Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

*

SCOREBOARD you whiny little vagina.

...by the way, it's your Dad (if your Mom even knows who he is) that should have been "fixed".

[Strike]

Obsession upon obsession. Already posted in another forum. Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

*
:cry

http://www.sallyminker.com/art/2-d/images/grapes-print.jpg
Sour grapes, Suns fan.

[lefty]

The suns chances dies the moment they got rid of Kurt Thomas. They have no chance unless Duncan gets hurt.

What's the diff ?

Duncan schooled Thomas

[Switchman]

Reason #2434343 Spurs>Suns

because the Spurs are TOO GOOD for a whiney little bitch like Marion.

[remingtonbo2001]

Um...pot, meet kettle. You're a Suns fan who spends practically 24 hours a day here just waiting to pounce on anyone who even farts in the direction of Phoenix.

Glass houses.


:lol :lol :lol It's funny cause it's true

[Johnny RIngo]

Look's like the Phoenix S0ns are imploding a year earlier than I thought. These gimmick teams never do last long(80s Nuggets, Kings,etc).

[Solid D]

I remember the Suns glory years when Westphall called that time out they didn't have so that they could get the ball back after the Tech FTs. Then Gar Heard hit that rainbow shot at the buzzer. That wasn't so long ago was it? It's something to hold on to, right?

[barbacoataco]

The Suns best chance to win a championship is if they get a new coach. D'Antoni plays his stars too many minutes and too hard. By the time the playoffs come they have peaked. Even if the Suns beat the Spurs last year, I'm not sure they would have won against Utah. The Jazz gave them problems last year in the regular season. I don't think Nash has the endurance to win 16 games in the playoffs, especially since his coach plays him too much.

[mavs>spurs2]

Sun fan still won't give it up?

[Capt Bringdown]

Is it true Marion's the highest paid Sun? There's a chemistry destroyer right there. Look up "playoff non-entity," and you'll find a picture of Marion's ugly mug.

[samikeyp]

Obsession upon obsession. Already posted in another forum. Say what you want, but the series was fixed.

Dance monkey, dance.

[timmy21_4rings]

The Suns best chance to win a championship is if they get a new coach. D'Antoni plays his stars too many minutes and too hard. By the time the playoffs come they have peaked. Even if the Suns beat the Spurs last year, I'm not sure they would have won against Utah. The Jazz gave them problems last year in the regular season. I don't think Nash has the endurance to win 16 games in the playoffs, especially since his coach plays him too much.

100% correct

[da_suns_fan__]

The Suns best chance to win a championship is if they get a new coach. D'Antoni plays his stars too many minutes and too hard.
By the time the playoffs come they have peaked.

Yeah..they should go with the Avery Johnson method....OH WAIT!!!!!!

[Mister Sinister]

Yeah..they should go with the Avery Johnson method....OH WAIT!!!!!!
As opposed to the D'Antoni method, which ended in the same result. No title. STFU. GTFO. kthxbye.

[da_suns_fan__]

So what are you saying?

D'Antoni doesn't play his starters as much and this prevents them from being suspended?

Please tell me youre joking.

[Mister Sinister]

No, I'm saying you have no place calling out another team's coach's method, when yours is equally title-less.

[da_suns_fan__]

No, I'm saying you have no place calling out another team's coach's method, when yours is equally title-less.

Why not? Im not Mike D'Antoni.

D'Antoni has his own faults. Maybe a more disciplined team would have stayed on the bench, but the minutes disbursement had nothing to do with the Suns' misfortunes.

Avery sitting his players during the end of the season is one of the reasons they had such a collosal meltdown.

Anyone else remember Ponky, Monos1labk and FinDog LAUGHING at D'Antoni playing his guys for in meaningless games?

Oh!!! THE IRONY!

[Mister Sinister]

One person's reason for a colossal meltdown is another's example of minutes-managing. Shwatev.

[SenorSpur]

Is it true Marion's the highest paid Sun? There's a chemistry destroyer right there. Look up "playoff non-entity," and you'll find a picture of Marion's ugly mug.

Yes, it's true. Even though he gets the biggest check (and is grossly overpaid), Marion still doesn't feel like he's loved and respected. Go figure.

[JMarkJohns]

I wanna die that the effin' Mercury have a Title and the Suns don't. I mean, to be a butch girl right now!!! :dramaquee

[YODA]

I have a wild comment. The problem with the Suns is their coach. Forget that they have one of the most athletic and talented teams in the NBA, their coach just doesnt learn. year after year he still tries win with more offence. each year, a defensive team takes them out of the hunt. He burns out one of his best players (nash) and doesnt give just due for an unappreciated Shawn marion. The Coach creates the team chemistry and this team obviously does not have it. i actually like the players on this team. There are some quality people and athletes. In my opinion though, their coach does not have a feel of the pulse of this team and lets things get out of hand. I wonder if he just doesnt know or if he just doesnt have the expereince to deal with these personalities. Heck, even pop took along time learning how to deal with players, but the suns coach seems stuck on doing things his way only. Will this ever change?
Time will only tell, but their window of oppertunity is closing fast.

Yoda

[ShoogarBear]

Why not? Im not Mike D'Antoni.Could've fooled us.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

dumb_suns_fan,
shouldn't you be reveling in the glory of your Phoenix Mercury being victorious in the WNBA Finals?
At least in that sense you can say that your city holds a title that San Antonio does not, right?

[Cry Havoc]

Why not? Im not Mike D'Antoni.

D'Antoni has his own faults. Maybe a more disciplined team would have stayed on the bench, but the minutes disbursement had nothing to do with the Suns' misfortunes.

Avery sitting his players during the end of the season is one of the reasons they had such a collosal meltdown.

Anyone else remember Ponky, Monos1labk and FinDog LAUGHING at D'Antoni playing his guys for in meaningless games?

Oh!!! THE IRONY!

I think it's obvious from the effort the Mavs put forth in that series that they were going nowhere this year in the playoffs anyway. They had no intensity.

The Spurs would have swept them. Even the Suns would probably have taken them apart.

[hater]

looking forward to another Suns drama-queen meltdown next season.

[da_suns_fan__]

dumb_suns_fan,
shouldn't you be reveling in the glory of your Phoenix Mercury being victorious in the WNBA Finals?
At least in that sense you can say that your city holds a title that San Antonio does not, right?

Diamondbacks won the world series in 2001.

What's sad though is that Spurs fans are JEALOUS of a WNBA title? Are things that boring in San Antonio? The Mercury's title was a distant second to the Cardinals victory over the Seahawks yesterday (which I went to) in the local media. San Antonians seem to care a lot more than we do! :lol

[Findog]

Why not? Im not Mike D'Antoni.

D'Antoni has his own faults. Maybe a more disciplined team would have stayed on the bench, but the minutes disbursement had nothing to do with the Suns' misfortunes.

Avery sitting his players during the end of the season is one of the reasons they had such a collosal meltdown.

Anyone else remember Ponky, Monos1labk and FinDog LAUGHING at D'Antoni playing his guys for in meaningless games?

Oh!!! THE IRONY!


What did Phoenix do in the playoffs last year that was so impressive? Beat Kobe and 10 D-Leaguers? Wow, that's awe-inspiring. Phoenix and Dallas are 2 of 29 teams that came up short, at least the Mavericks don't whine about "unfair rules" and the Spurs "being mean" when they don't win. I'm surprised you're able to type with such a tender vagina.

[leemajors]

What did Phoenix do in the playoffs last year that was so impressive? Beat Kobe and 10 D-Leaguers? Wow, that's awe-inspiring. Phoenix and Dallas are 2 of 29 teams that came up short, at least the Mavericks don't whine about "unfair rules" and the Spurs "being mean" when they don't win. I'm surprised you're able to type with such a tender vagina.
they also repeatedly let the spurs get out to big leads, leaving themselves to play from behind. but they should have won the series.

[41times]

The main reason the Suns will never win a title.......3 first names i.e. Mike Dan Toni.

He is a bush league coach with a lot of talent but can't figure out how to make it all work in the playoffs.

If Pop or Riley or Phil were the coach of the Suns over the last 3 years they would have at least 2 Titles

[polandprzem]

Black star is way better then the Sun

[da_suns_fan__]

What did Phoenix do in the playoffs last year that was so impressive? Beat Kobe and 10 D-Leaguers? Wow, that's awe-inspiring. Phoenix and Dallas are 2 of 29 teams that came up short, at least the Mavericks don't whine about "unfair rules" and the Spurs "being mean" when they don't win. I'm surprised you're able to type with such a tender vagina.


FinDog is on a quest this summer to put all teams who didn't win the title in the same boat as the Mavs.

Sorry FinDog, there's losing, and then there's what happened to the Mavs!

He's also come to terms with the fact that Dirk was an embarrassing MVP, but he always follows it up with "so is Nash".

Sorry FinDog, Nash's post-season performances have never embarrassed anyone. Spurs fans can attest that Barbosa and Marion played crappy against the Spurs, but Nash brought his A game night in and night out. You can bust his nose open and he'll still be outstanding.

Spurs fans agree?

[Findog]

Sorry FinDog, there's losing, and then there's what happened to the Mavs!

07 Warriors > 07 Lakers. Sorry, but Phoenix didn't accomplish anything Dallas didn't: 60+ regular season wins and an early exit. Dress it up all you want, but both teams had a disappointing end to their season. At least the Mavs and their fans took it without complaining incessantly about crooked refs and conspiracies.




Sorry FinDog, Nash's post-season performances have never embarrassed anyone.

Dirk's playoff resume is better than Nash's. Nash can't beat the Spurs and Nash can't get his team to a Finals. I would love to play the LA teams every time out.

[Scola Trade]

Suns should buy out Marion... then we can sign him cheap :D

[da_suns_fan__]

07 Warriors > 07 Lakers. Sorry, but Phoenix didn't accomplish anything Dallas didn't: 60+ regular season wins and an early exit. Dress it up all you want, but both teams had a disappointing end to their season. At least the Mavs and their fans took it without complaining incessantly about crooked refs and conspiracies.





Dirk's playoff resume is better than Nash's. Nash can't beat the Spurs and Nash can't get his team to a Finals. I would love to play the LA teams every time out.

They hypocracy of FinDog CONTINUES.

In one statement, he says the Suns didn't accomplish anything the Mavs didn't since they didn't win the championship.

In the next, he says Dirk's playoff resume is greater than Nash's because Dirk has made it to a Finals.

So the only parameter to be used when judging two teams is whether they won the title, but you can use whatever you want when judging the careers of two players?

:lol

Here comes the SPIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Findog]

In one statement, he says the Suns didn't accomplish anything the Mavs didn't since they didn't win the championship.

We were talking about the 06-07 season, correct? Neither team made a deep playoff run.


In the next, he says Dirk's playoff resume is greater than Nash's because Dirk has made it to a Finals.

Can't dispute that either, can you, chump?


So the only parameter to be used when judging two teams is whether they won the title,

You use team success to judge teams. How is that hard to understand?


but you can use whatever you want when judging the careers of two players?


If we're comparing who has accomplished more in the playoffs, and those two players happen to be Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash, Dirk has accomplished more. Those are just facts. Put your own spin on it if you want, but I'm just making an observation.

By the same token, Tim Duncan and Shaquille O'Neal have pretty much everybody beat.

[baseline bum]

Avery sitting his players during the end of the season is one of the reasons they had such a collosal meltdown.

Anyone else remember Ponky, Monos1labk and FinDog LAUGHING at D'Antoni playing his guys for in meaningless games?

Oh!!! THE IRONY!

Pop did the exact same thing this season and in 2005. What killed the Mavs was that they weren't nearly as sharp of a team after the all-star break as they were before (just like the 06 Pistons), and Dirk wouldn't play on the block.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's the diff ?

Duncan schooled Thomas

Duncan schools most everyone. The point is that Thomas was really there only decent post defender. amare is undisciplined and gets in foul trouble very easily and other than Marks who we know first hand isnt a post defender who else do the have? Diaw? Marion?

Thomas was doing a pretty decent job that series of keeping Duncan away from the basket nad holding his position. noone else on the Suns roster even has a chance.

The lack of post defenders is going to effect them moreso than just the Spurs as well. They are going to have to outscore people more than ever becasue their defense took a major hit.