Marion wants out of Phoenix?

[Xylus]

By Sean Deveney, Sporting News
Posted September 25, 2007

Shawn Marion, L.A. Laker? If he has his way, that will happen.

According to a league source, the Lakers and Suns have been in discussions about a deal -- a blockbuster deal -- that would send the four-time All-Star to Los Angeles to play alongside Kobe Bryant. The Suns would get forward Lamar Odom and perhaps some salary-cap filler in return. The main obstacle appears to be Lakers owner Jerry Buss, who needs to OK the deal. Asked to handicap the likelihood of the deal going through, the source said, "50-50."

Upon hearing this, I caught up with Marion this afternoon by phone. He confirmed that he spoke with Bryant over the weekend, but added, "I've been friends with Kobe for a while, so we talk here and there, anyway."

Still, Marion was enthusiastic about the potential trade. "Why wouldn't I be?" he said. "You have a great organization, great ownership there with the Lakers. I don't see no problems with playing there."

This, it appears, would be a good fit for everyone. It has been a rocky summer for Marion and the Suns, who drafted him out of UNLV in 1999 but have been unwilling to give him a contract extension. Marion is the highest-paid player on the team, and he can opt out of the final year of his deal and become a free agent next summer.

One sticking point with the Suns is that Marion was told that if he does opt out, he will not be re-signed. Another goes back to before the draft, when the Suns had a deal in place to send Marion to the Celtics -- Boston had agreed to extend his contract if the trade went through. "I didn't like that," Marion said. "It was like they were trying to force my hand by taking the Boston deal. I have been with this team my whole career. I was like, 'Wow.' "[/b]

I asked if the team's refusal to give him an extension played into his unhappiness with the team. "It was part of it," Marion said. "It's not like that was the last straw or anything. It was just part of everything that has gone on. People have made assumptions about me, but I don't think all those people know everything that has gone on."

For the most part, though, Marion declined to talk about his unhappiness with the organization. "There's been things that have been said in the media, but I don't want to get into all that," he said. "That's not going to accomplish anything. Most people don't know what goes on behind closed doors. The way I look at it is, I love Phoenix, I love the fans. I love my teammates. Don't let anybody tell you that I don't. Some of the stuff that has happened is messed up. But pointing fingers and all that, I am bigger than that."

As for the potential Lakers-Suns trade, Odom would fit well in Phoenix's up-tempo offense. He is an excellent rebounder who can run the floor and handle the ball, like a point-forward. With the addition of small forward Grant Hill, the Suns clearly are looking to add players with ballhandling skill to take pressure off point guard Steve Nash, especially in the postseason.

Marion is not a classic big-man fit for Phil Jackson's triangle offense, which might be the source of the Lakers' hesitation. But, in some ways, he offers Jackson more than Odom, who has played alongside Bryant for three seasons. Both Odom and Bryant have put up nice numbers in those years, but the two just don't seem to mesh. Odom operates best running the floor and with the ball in his hands. But when you play for the Lakers, the ball is going to be in Bryant's hands. Odom has been professional about that, but this is a guy who has averaged 4.6 assists per game in his career. He belongs in a ball-sharing system.

Marion is different. He can excel without having plays called for him, and he gets the bulk of his points off turnovers and offensive rebounds -- in other words, he can be productive even if Bryant dominates the ball. He also can make 3-pointers and is a strong finisher. But the biggest difference will be Marion's defense. He's among the best defenders in the league, and he and Bryant should give the Lakers a fearsome pair of defensive wings. As important as the triangle is to Jackson, the most frustrating part of the coach's return to the Lakers in the last two years has been the team's shoddy defense.

Some will point to the Phoenix run-and-gun system when it comes to Marion's gaudy numbers (18.8 points and 10.0 rebounds in his career). But he had some of his best years when the Suns were a halfcourt team and Stephon Marbury was the point guard. And there also is this to consider: Marion is among the league's most durable players, missing just 15 games in those eight seasons. Odom is coming off shoulder surgery and missed four weeks with a sprained MCL last season.

"I think I would fit right in," Marion said. "People talk about the triangle offense all the time, like it is impossible. But it's an offense. Wherever you play, you have to learn the offense. It's not that complicated. You pass, you cut, you slash. Offense is offense. And I would love to play with Kobe."

Still, a change would be tough for Marion. "I wanted to retire a Phoenix Sun," he said. "That would be nice. I think everyone would like to play their whole career for the team that drafted them. But sometimes it comes to the point where you just have to take that step and move on. It's like a bad marriage. It doesn't matter who's right or wrong, both people should just move on."

Of course, there's just one catch: The Lakers might turn down the deal. That would mean that when training camp opens next Monday, Marion would still be with the Suns. Would he show up? "I am a professional," he says. "I will be where I am supposed to be."


My question to Spurs fans: How does Odom generally perform against your team? In your opinion, would Odom + another Laker be a more challenging addition to the Suns than Shawn Marion?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

IIRC, Odom is a major league pain in the ass to the Spurs.

[SequSpur]

Odom blows. He is overrated. There is no hope for the Suns. Nash is done.

[mystargtr34]

Odom has smoked Marion the last two playoff series between the two teams.

[kskonn]

I think odom is a tougher matchup because he is a big man that is versatile. He does not rely on other people to create his shot near as much as marion. It has been proven time and time again that the spurs can pretty much eliminate Marion's effectiveness when he plays the spurs. I am not sure I could say the same about odom. However the Udoka signing is looking better and better for the spurs, another good defender to lock someone down.

[spursfan09]

Usually Bowen does a very good job at shutting Marion, Odom can give the Spurs probs because I always remember him as always give them probs. So If phoenix can get it done. Good. Still won't beat us though. :)

[barbacoataco]

Odom has had more success than Marion against the Spurs. But if this trade happens, the Suns will be a different team. The addition of Odom and Grant Hill, and loss of Marion, will slow this team down and change their character. Marion's game is a big part of the Suns run and gun style, and he is great at running the floor and leading the fast break. I don't know if that makes the Suns better or worse, but they would be different.

[timmy21_4rings]

Odom will make Suns better against Spurs. But rating for Suns will go down since Odom is not as athletic as Marion. He will not run as fast as Marion

[exstatic]

Odom isn't over rated, he's just under motivated. He's got the complete skill set of someone like KG, but the drive and motivation of someone like Rasheed. He always seems to cause us matchup problems, and I think he would be better for PHO, but I don't see how LA wants to do this trade. Marion is an over paid prima donna.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Odom isn't over rated, he's just under motivated. He's got the complete skill set of someone like KG, but the drive and motivation of someone like Rasheed. He always seems to cause us matchup problems, and I think he would be better for PHO, but I don't see how LA wants to do this trade. Marion is an over paid prima donna.
True. He seems like the type of guy to get content with a good game here or there. Dude has the ability though.

[Warlord23]

Odom has presented way more match-up difficulties for the Spurs than Marion ever has. Also if the Suns get Cook, he can very well flourish in their system. This makes the Suns better equipped IMO to battle San Antonio and Dallas.

[baseline bum]

I think Odom's a better player than Marion, but Phoenix is giving up one of their two defensive players if they make this move. It's like the team is saying 'to hell with trying to even try to play D' if they let go of Marion after dumping Kurt Thomas.

Odom gives Duncan lots of problems with his ability to face up and drive on him, but Odom guarding Duncan is a joke. I don't think Phoenix needs anymore offensive help, which is what makes the Hill signing + the Thomas salary dump so strange.

This trade would definitely benefit the hell out of LA. I don't think Phoenix needs what Odom brings to the table.

[Summers]

Odom isn't over rated, he's just under motivated. He's got the complete skill set of someone like KG, but the drive and motivation of someone like Rasheed. He always seems to cause us matchup problems, and I think he would be better for PHO, but I don't see how LA wants to do this trade. Marion is an over paid prima donna.

My thoughts exactly. Suns are getting the better end of the deal.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Marion is a gigantic baby. The Odom deal doesn't make as much sense to me as a Marion-AK47 deal. AK47 would be a motherfucker in Phoenix's system, other than he doesn't have great three point range.

[Oh, Gee!!]

If PHX gets KOBE, I'll be worried.

[ThomasGranger]

Odom tends to step up his game during the playoffs and Marion often disappears.

[timvp]

Odom is pretty damn good. He's talented and he's put a lot of his past trouble behind him. He'd also be an improvement chemistry-wise for the Suns.

Offensively, he'd fit pretty well with the Suns. He can shoot, and is a better one-on-one and post player than Marion. He's also better than Marion at passing and has a higher overall offensive basketball IQ.

The downgrade would be defensively. Marion for all of his whining was probably the best defensive player on the Suns (if it wasn't him it was probably Kurt Thomas). Marion can basically guard point guard through power forwards. With Odom, he's a player that can guard the small post players and the slower wings. And even then, he's not very good at it.

If the Suns have a lineup of:

PG Nash
SG Bell
SF Hill
PF Odom
C Stoudemire

That's a pretty porous defensive lineup. How exactly would the Suns try to guard the Spurs. Who is going to guard Duncan? Who is going to guard Parker?

It seriously looks like the Suns would be forced to have Nash guard Parker? Bell will guard Ginobili. Hill, Odom and Stoudemire can't guard Parker.

Duncan guarded by Odom or Stoudemire? :hungry:

Parker guarded by Nash? :hungry: :hungry:

[timvp]

To take it a step further, the Spurs would actually have an easier time defending this version of the Suns. Duncan couldn't really guard Marion but he at least can buy time against Odom. Bowen could be put on anyone on the Suns team other than Stoudemire. Ginobili could guard Bell or Hill. Parker could guard Nash or Bell until he had to switch over on Barbosa.

Bowen on Nash
Parker on Bell
Ginobili on Hill
Oberto on Odom
Duncan on Stoudemire

:hungry: @ the thought of Nash having to guard Parker but Parker not having to guard Nash.

[freemeat]

I think the Suns lost any chance of guarding Timmy and beating the Spurs in a 7-game series when they traded Kurt Thomas.

Odom may present some more problems, but I think their better option is for Kirilenko here...

[hater]

Odom has smoked Marion the last two playoff series between the two teams.

who hasn't smoked Marion in a playoff series?

[hater]

Duncan on Stoudemire


will never happen unless its late in the 4th an Duncan has 2 fouls

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Bowen on Nash
Parker on Bell
Ginobili on Hill
Oberto on Odom
Duncan on Stoudemire
Do you really want Fabricio guarding Odom from the top of the key? He wouldn't stand a chance of staying in front of him.

[MagnusKrauss]

if odom does come to phoenix, would elson have a decent chance of guarding odom?

i'm not sure if oberto could stay in front of odom.

if udoka does play a lot like bruce, would bowen guard odom?

what do you guys think?

udoka - nash
parker - bell
manu - hill
bowen - odom
duncan - amare

would it work?

i don't know...too many ifs and woulds.

-------------------

magnusdrakenkrauss

[Medvedenko]

Wow! Like I said in previous posts....I love Odom but I believe he needs to move on...he's too often injured, however he has a big heart and shows up in the playoffs. Still, it's time to move on...getting Marion another defensive player will help the Lakers for sure. Now we just need to trade for Jkidd and we'll be set :)

[MagnusKrauss]

i forgot something.

laker fans, how would you make that trade?

let's say phoenix agrees to a trade. marion has a 16+ M contract. who would you give to match that contract? suppose the la fo and odom agree he would fit better in phoenix, who else would you be willing to give up to match marion's contract?

with the loss of odom, would you be willing to play marion out of position once more in the 4? or would you make him a 3? if you do put him in the SF position, who would you put at 4?

------------------

magnusdrakenkrauss

[Fast Dunk]

When are Spurs fans going to understand that last season your team got lucky with Dallas playing a mismatch and Pheonix getting robbed?

When are you going to understand that your team isn't invincible and to the contrary are very, very beatable?

When are you going to learn not to underestimate your opponent?

When are you going to understand that your team is getting older by the minute?

When are you going to understand that either Dallas and Phoenix are probably better than your team and can beat you any time any day if playing fair and square?

[Fast Dunk]

Add Houston to the list as well

[ducks]

when are you going to stop talking smack
your team sucks and has won nothing

[Medvedenko]

If this trade goes down you must play Marion at the 3....for defensive purposes. This would move Walton to the bench....which will shore up the bench, which is what I like.
Fisher/Farmar/Critt
Kobe/Mo evans/Sasha
Marion/Walton
Kwame/Radman/Turiaf
Mihm/Bynum

That's my team....now getting rid of Kwame would be awesome....but beggers can't be choosers.

[RonMexico]

Odom is often not motivated because he feels like Kobe gets all the glory and all the touches. With Nash, he would get lots of looks, can pound the offensive glass and can possibly handle the ball when Nash is on the bench.

Those are all the positives - he could also start smoking a ton of pot again and be worthless.

[wildbill2u]

If they make this trade it is further proof that Phx will simply try and run and gun to a title without concern for defense.

The theory: If 110 PPG gets you the best record in the league, then surely averaging 125 will win you a championship

[LakeShow]

If this trade goes down you must play Marion at the 3....for defensive purposes. This would move Walton to the bench....which will shore up the bench, which is what I like.
Fisher/Farmar/Critt
Kobe/Mo evans/Sasha
Marion/Walton
Kwame/Radman/Turiaf
Mihm/Bynum

That's my team....now getting rid of Kwame would be awesome....but beggers can't be choosers.

Agreed. Marion at the 3 is the only option.

I'm not with the Marion wants 20 million a year talk. I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere. He's only stated over and over, its about the trade talk every year that concerns him. Phoenix has already made it clear that he is not in their future plans, so why would he want to stay there? He's closing in on the final year of his contract. Teams and players always want to renegoiate their contracts at this time, so he's not being unreasonable with his request. I believe it is just a means to request a trade. The suns said long time ago that they wanted to rid themselves of his contract. He is whinning, but he's telling the truth! He is unappreciated in Phoenix. No one likes for the credit to be given to others when they are just as much responsible for the success of that team. I wouldn't want others taking credit for something I was a big part of either.

The trade is a good one for both teams but better for the Lakers. Marion at the 3 would give the Lakers an excellent defense on the perimeter. Can you imagine Fisher/Kobe/Marion/Turiaf/ and either center on the court at the same time. The defense would be intense. Like I said, I like Odom and would hate to see him go but he is injury prone. I hate to say it but most LA fans I know all expect for that continue. Why shouldn't we, it always does!

Sign it off, Dr. Buss before they change their minds!

[Xylus]

I disagree that Marion is underappreciated in Phoenix. He's the highest paid player by like $4 mil., because the Suns have great respect for his skillset. His name comes up in trade talk often, but he's never actually been traded. Plus, D'Antoni loves the guy.

[LakeShow]

I disagree that Marion is underappreciated in Phoenix. He's the highest paid player by like $4 mil., because the Suns have great respect for his skillset. His name comes up in trade talk often, but he's never actually been traded. Plus, D'Antoni loves the guy.

Maybe so but he seems to feel that way.

Also, I see alot of fans saying he's not worth this or that, but Marion is worth 14 million a year, easy imo. The lakers may overpay in the beginning, but he is definitely worth Odom and Cooks contract. Hell, I'd give Cook away for a 3rd round draft pick in 2010.

[Scola Trade]

What about if Phoenix gets Kwame Brown (9 mil exp) + fillers instead of Odom? Doesn't it makes more sense for them? They'll get a big man that can guard Duncan plus cap relief next year.

[Reggie Miller]

What about if Phoenix gets Kwame Brown (9 mil exp) + fillers instead of Odom? Doesn't it makes more sense for them? They'll get a big man that can guard Duncan plus cap relief next year.


When the Suns brought in Kerr, I thought they might be preparing to blow up this team and start over. Considering the amount of money that Phoenix has tied up in guys they won't even play, a deal like this makes some sense. I would also want L.A. to take at least one of these bad contracts off of my hands, were I part of the Suns' F.O.

The problem is that Brown is a liability. A team would be doing this for monetary reasons alone. I wouldn't be shocked if "Cake" wasn't even in the league in two years. (With his height, I kind of doubt it, but it wouldn't surprise me.)

Not to rag on the guy, nor to garner sympathy for him, but Brown appears to have some issues. Seriously, if half of the stories out of Washington are true, then Brown must be developmentally disabled or environmentally retarded in some way. I recall one story in which a Wizards' teammate went to Brown's apartment or condominium and discovered that an entire room was full of wadded-up suits and designer clothes, worn once. Apparently, Brown did not know what to do with garments labelled "dry clean only" and had been too embarassed to ask someone. Like I said, I'm not trying to ridicule the guy*, just point out that you would want to do some major checking up on this situation.


* Although I believe that people need to take responsibility for their own education and enrichment as a human being, some people never really have a chance. If these stories are true, or even mostly true, a lot of adults really did this kid a disservice over the years.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Also, I see alot of fans saying he's not worth this or that, but Marion is worth 14 million a year, easy imo..
Yeah, but he makes $16 million this year, $17 million next year, and expects to be extended for $20+ million per after that. He's the 12th highest paid player in the league now, and the third best player on his own team. That is a dysfunctional salary situation.

[Medvedenko]

If we can rid of Kwame and Cook plus a pick for Marion, then I'd be all for that...hands down.

Fisher
Kobe
Marion
Odom
Bynum

But this won't happen...but yeah, Kwame plays decent D on Duncan...but can't catch so he would at least drop 3-4 passes from Nash per game.

[LakeShow]

Yeah, but he makes $16 million this year, $17 million next year, and expects to be extended for $20+ million per after that. He's the 12th highest paid player in the league now, and the third best player on his own team. That is a dysfunctional salary situation.

I don't believe he would expect that from the Lakers. He can more than make up what he loses in Salary with endorsements in LA. Even if he did say he wanted 20 million, (which has not been confirmed) the lakers would still be in basicly the same situation if they kept Odom and cook. 20 million would be out the question and the lakers would free up salary by not resigning him.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I don't believe he would expect that from the Lakers. He can more than make up what he loses in Salary with endorsements in LA. Even if he did say he wanted 20 million, (which has not been confirmed) the lakers would still be in basicly the same situation if they kept Odom and cook. 20 million would be out the question and the lakers would free up salary by not resigning him.How much money could Marion really expect to make in endorsements? More or less than Lamar Odom? Is he going to all of a sudden be some huge national celebrity? Shawn Marion is not Gary Payton or Karl Malone trying to gravy train a ring at the end of their careers. He's going to want an extension and he's going to want it at more than his current salary. Why do you think he's saying all those great things about the Lakers organization while bashing the Suns front office? He may not get that kind of cash on the free agent market, but he's sure as hell going to try to get as much money as he can on what will likely be the last big contract of his career. I agree though that the Lakers would be better off not extending him and going for the cap space. It would make sense for someone like LeBron (or Shaq back in the day) to go to LA to maximize their endorsement power, but I don't think that's true for a guy like Shawn Marion.

And why are you discussing Cook in this conversation? The two salaries are close enough that Cook doesn't have to be in the deal. Surely the Suns would want to save and additional $10 million in salary by not taking Cook.

[saporvida]

When are Spurs fans going to understand that last season your team got lucky with Dallas playing a mismatch and Pheonix getting robbed?

i love this stupid fuckin mismatch bs about the mavs & the warriors. when it comes down to it the warriors were just that, warriors, and the mavs did what they do best, choke, so don't come in here acting as if it's some fluke that the mavs lost to the 8th seed. in reality the mavs just flat out suck! if the mavs were anything they were hyped up to be they would had won that 7-game series but they are just that, hype. as for phx getting robbed, well you can't blame the spurs because phx has some dumbasses who can't follow the rules even though they get paid millions to play the game and you would had thought they would had read the freaking rule book by now. fuck them both!


When are you going to understand that your team isn't invincible and to the contrary are very, very beatable?

i don't remember anyone saying the SPURS are invincible. you're a dumbass. if we were invincible there would be no need for the league itself considering we would have won the finals every yr since our induction into the nba.


When are you going to learn not to underestimate your opponent?

what? you make no sense at all. the SPURS don't have to underestimate their opponents especially when it's the cavs. 4-0. when's the media gonna understand they don't have to overestimate the talent on your shitty squad?


When are you going to understand that your team is getting older by the minute?

really? yeah some of them, but if i'm not mistaken don't we have a bunch of 20+ yr olds on our team now? we even have a 20+ yr old finals mvp & all-star on our team. shit we have a another 20+ yr old all-star on our team.

plus it's such a cliche to call the SPURS old, but guess what? all these old farts kicked your teams ass in the finals straight 4 times, so where's your defense for that? oh wait defense.... i forgot cavs don't know how to play defense.


When are you going to understand that either Dallas and Phoenix are probably better than your team and can beat you any time any day if playing fair and square?

i love how you put this word in your question... "probably"! shit, so you agree they "can't" always beat us? yeah i agree they might win one here or there but does it really matter? no. and why? because we come off on top at the end of the day and end up making babies of both those teams mentioned. you gotta bring your "A" game not just your shit talking.

one last thing FastDunk... you don't care for the SPURS, you come here just to piss every SPURS fan off, you talk mad shit, and you add nothing of substance to any of the posts here on SpursTalk.com, so maybe you should go find a cavs forum instead and chat it up with your own kind. LOSERS!

[Medvedenko]

Now wouldn't it be crazy if this went down.....Lakers vs Suns Christmas day game is a lot more interesting....

[Xylus]

I have a feeling that if Marion gets traded to LA, both Amare and Marion are gonna go off on Christmas. 30-15 games for both.

[LakeShow]

How much money could Marion really expect to make in endorsements? More or less than Lamar Odom? Is he going to all of a sudden be some huge national celebrity? Shawn Marion is not Gary Payton or Karl Malone trying to gravy train a ring at the end of their careers. He's going to want an extension and he's going to want it at more than his current salary. Why do you think he's saying all those great things about the Lakers organization while bashing the Suns front office? He may not get that kind of cash on the free agent market, but he's sure as hell going to try to get as much money as he can on what will likely be the last big contract of his career. I agree though that the Lakers would be better off not extending him and going for the cap space. It would make sense for someone like LeBron (or Shaq back in the day) to go to LA to maximize their endorsement power, but I don't think that's true for a guy like Shawn Marion.

And why are you discussing Cook in this conversation? The two salaries are close enough that Cook doesn't have to be in the deal. Surely the Suns would want to save and additional $10 million in salary by not taking Cook.

Sure he would have bigger endorsements in LA. He is an all star afterall. I'm not saying that he would be a big celebrity or anything like that, but the fact is endorsements and appearances are big business in LA and NY. He woud definitely benefit monetarily playing in LA.

Cook was mentioned in earlier trade rumors. It would make sense to send him to Phoenix as well so the salaries will match perfectly. Part of it is wishful thinking as well. If the Suns do not want Cook, so be it!

[RussN]

where is dumb_suns_fans take?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Lakers if this be true Odoms and Cooks for Marion

PG Fisher/Farmar/Crittendon
SG Bryant/Evans/Vujacic
SF Marion/Walton
PF Kwame/Radman/Turiaf
C Bynum/Mihm

Then look me like Laker just need better backs up point guard and they have good chance be top team.

They needs much is better back up play maker though to Fisher. Or maybe Fisher move bench get better starts point guard.

[meta2007]

Will Phoenix be still in playoff? :wakeup

[Findog]

where is dumb_suns_fans take?

Ever since the news broke, he's been crying, balled up in a fetal position and repeating over and over again "THIS IS NOT HAPPENING. JACK MCCALLUM WROTE A BOOK ABOUT HOW WE'RE CHANGING THE NBA. THIS IS NOT HAPPENING. I WANT TO SMELL SHAWN MARION'S FARTS. THIS IS NOT HAPPENING..."


He's cheering himself up by rereading his favorite passages off 7 seconds or less and masturbating feverishly. He's got two copies, one to read, one to soil.

[curtismedellin]

When are Spurs fans going to understand that last season your team got lucky with Dallas playing a mismatch and Pheonix getting robbed?

When are you going to understand that your team isn't invincible and to the contrary are very, very beatable?

When are you going to learn not to underestimate your opponent?

When are you going to understand that your team is getting older by the minute?

When are you going to understand that either Dallas and Phoenix are probably better than your team and can beat you any time any day if playing fair and square?

troll

[MagnusKrauss]

with that kind of lineup, i don't think that la would survive another playoff meeting with phoenix.

the only way to win phoenix is to slow them down. you won't be able to that with that kind of lineup. phoenix would just blow past them in a heartbeat. that's why the spurs almost always wins over phoenix. slow phoenix down and you expose their weaknesses. but allow them leeway to make their fast plays and you'd end up losing.

sure, la would have marion, but what would he do once he's been left behind? would a front court consisting of kwame/turiaf bynum/mihm be able to stop penetrations?

------------------------------

the next issue i'd like to address is the gs-dallas matchup. from just two matchups (gs-dallas, dallas-miami) everybody has labeled the mavs as chokers.

in my opinion, yes, dirk did sort-of disappear on his team. from frustration, or lack of balls, or for whatever reason we will never comprehend, he did just that. but let's analyze the matchup instead of focusing on just one player.

gs-dallas (06-07)

there have been many things said about this matchup. even we, the spurs, got caught off-guard with this team (i remember that loss in the regular season....and the ass-whipping we unleashed the next time we met them). the warriors are truly a unique team.

at the pg, we have baron davis. a strong pg who can muscle his way in. could harris stop this guy? could terry? i don't even think dirk could stop him getting in. so we have diop/dampier or even howard to guard him.

at the 2 guard, they have monta ellis. a talented young guard who i think is going to be quite a problem this season. they also have pietrus, another good player. both would run their opponents down.

at the 3, we have stephen jackson and jason richardson. these two guys cannot be stopped with just stackhouse. josh howard, maybe?

at the 4, we have al harrington. this is nellie's gem of a player. put him on dirk, and dirk would have nightmares. a very athletic 4 (although undersized), he could seriously bother dirk at the outside.

and at center we have biedrins. or zarko, even. both would be good enough to play against dampier or diop.

so where does dallas have a chance?

dallas - miami (05-06)

shaq and wade.

dirk.

another matchup mismatch. dallas isn't capable of taking on a shaq and wade combo. detroit, yes. spurs, yes. but not dallas.

-------------------------------

magnusdrakenkrauss

[SequSpur]

ginobili and Beno for MArion. Do it!

[timmy21_4rings]

You may remove the question mark from the title of this thread. Marion has indeed talked and wants out of Phonix.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-suns-marion&prov=ap&type=lgns

[timmy21_4rings]

When are Spurs fans going to understand that last season your team got lucky with Dallas playing a mismatch and Pheonix getting robbed?



once robbery is proven.



When are you going to understand that your team isn't invincible and to the contrary are very, very beatable?


once our team is getting beaten.



When are you going to learn not to underestimate your opponent?


once other teams competes in our level.



When are you going to understand that your team is getting older by the minute?

In this world everyone is getting older. Last time I checked no one is getting younger by the minute.



When are you going to understand that either Dallas and Phoenix are probably better than your team and can beat you any time any day if playing fair and square?

Depends on your definition of fairness..Looks like you are wanting to eject Tim Duncan (remember Joey Crawford) every time he plays against Dallas and Phoenix!!!

[RonMexico]

They better get Odom and Cook for Marion.

Kwame Brown would be a terrible trade.

[Fast Dunk]

i love this stupid fuckin mismatch bs about the mavs & the warriors. when it comes down to it the warriors were just that, warriors, and the mavs did what they do best, choke, so don't come in here acting as if it's some fluke that the mavs lost to the 8th seed. in reality the mavs just flat out suck! if the mavs were anything they were hyped up to be they would had won that 7-game series but they are just that, hype. as for phx getting robbed, well you can't blame the spurs because phx has some dumbasses who can't follow the rules even though they get paid millions to play the game and you would had thought they would had read the freaking rule book by now. fuck them both!



i don't remember anyone saying the SPURS are invincible. you're a dumbass. if we were invincible there would be no need for the league itself considering we would have won the finals every yr since our induction into the nba.



what? you make no sense at all. the SPURS don't have to underestimate their opponents especially when it's the cavs. 4-0. when's the media gonna understand they don't have to overestimate the talent on your shitty squad?



really? yeah some of them, but if i'm not mistaken don't we have a bunch of 20+ yr olds on our team now? we even have a 20+ yr old finals mvp & all-star on our team. shit we have a another 20+ yr old all-star on our team.

plus it's such a cliche to call the SPURS old, but guess what? all these old farts kicked your teams ass in the finals straight 4 times, so where's your defense for that? oh wait defense.... i forgot cavs don't know how to play defense.



i love how you put this word in your question... "probably"! shit, so you agree they "can't" always beat us? yeah i agree they might win one here or there but does it really matter? no. and why? because we come off on top at the end of the day and end up making babies of both those teams mentioned. you gotta bring your "A" game not just your shit talking.

one last thing FastDunk... you don't care for the SPURS, you come here just to piss every SPURS fan off, you talk mad shit, and you add nothing of substance to any of the posts here on SpursTalk.com, so maybe you should go find a cavs forum instead and chat it up with your own kind. LOSERS!


The Truth hurts doesn't it!

Besides who want to talk about the damn suck ass Lakers anyways?

Even if Marion gets traded to Lala land, they will still suck big fat balls!

[Hemotivo]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=42~272~510&teams=21~21~24&te=&cash=24:21
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/792/tradetq0.jpg

[Scola Trade]

No f****g way we'll give Manu by Marion. But I'm OK giving if we do Beno and Bonner :D

[saporvida]

The Truth hurts doesn't it!

only if youre a cavs fan. remember this when you are trying to rag on all us SPURS fans.... your team sucks! 4-0 finals and vs cavs. and we're :hungry: for more!

[meta2007]

How about Shane Battier + Steve Francis for Manu?

For the sake of Manu, I want him to be a rocket.


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=42~272~510&teams=21~21~24&te=&cash=24:21
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/792/tradetq0.jpg

[saporvida]

how about manu aint going nowhere and whats with everyone wanting to ship his ass out of sa? i dont get it...

[meta2007]

For the sake of Manu, I believe the best team for him is Rockets. If Manu was a rocket, Rockets would win the title. And, Manu needn't to come off bench, they have Bonzi. And, Chinese fans would vote Manu in ASG. And, it is also possible for Manu to get a lots of business contracts from China.

[nkdlunch]

not to mention Manu would get mad asian punani

[Hemotivo]

how about manu aint going nowhere and whats with everyone wanting to ship his ass out of sa? i dont get it...
Manu wants to play with Nash, not with Tmac

[meta2007]

That's interesting to hear! Tmac is not a clutch player. Rockets deperately needs Manu.


Manu wants to play with Nash, not with Tmac

[Scola Trade]

Manu wants to play with Nash...
Yes... in the All-Star Game :lol

[Hemotivo]

Yes... in the All-Star Game :lol
Maybe, but he said he wants to play with Nash :wakeup

[baseline bum]

Marion is a very stupid person. Did anyone ever hear the interview he did on Rome's show right after he got drafted? He couldn't hold a conversation, and got run from the show like he was one of their idiot callers. Plus, there was the time he was about to shoot at the wrong basket until he heard all the fans yelling "NO!". :lol

[saporvida]

im sure manu is content where he is.

ps: are you sure manu didnt say he wanted to play "vs" nash instead of with nash? haha. all you gotta do to play vs nash is knock him on his ass and into the scorers table. down goes canada.

[saporvida]

Plus, there was the time he was about to shoot at the wrong basket until he heard all the fans yelling "NO!". :lol

i've done that before... hahaha. it was a pickup game so whatever but it was funny as hell. god i gotta get on a league cause im dying to play some ball.

[whottt]

Personally I think this trade strengthens the Suns and weakens the Lakers...


It's not like the Suns ever defend anyone anyway...


And the difference is...in Odom they will have a bigman they can run the offense through in a half court set...and Odom is damn good at that. They become much more deadly in a basket trading situation...instead of relying on volume shooting and up tempo scoring, they can slow the game down and score at a high PCT...inside, something they have struggled to do since day 1 with D'antoni...and that's the main reason the Spurs have been able to beat them....and Odom can pass as well...he's played point guard before when he was younger with the Clips. Odom is one of the few who can legit play any position on the court...he's bulked up quite a bit, but I think his offensive skill set is still intact...it's a natural thing with him, was never something he had to work at developing.


Odom was a beast when Kobe was out of the lineup last year...he might have been playing the best ball in the NBA.

He goes into a secondary role when Kobe returns and everyone rips his heart...people with weak hearts don't step up when the best player on the team goes down...they step down. Odom does not step down when his star gets injured...he steps up.

And he is one of the most versatile and multiskilled offensive bigmen in the league.



Marion disappears in big games, always has, always will...I'd love to see him on the Lakers for that reason...he's the guy that steps down when his star goes down.


It will be Phil Jackson's masterwork of psychology if he can turn Marion into a clutch performer.

[degenerate_gambler]

And he is one of the most versatile and multiskilled offensive bigmen in the league...



...when he's healthy.

[saporvida]

Manu wants to play with Nash, not with Tmac

and what does that have to do with anything i have said?

[Hemotivo]

and what does that have to do with anything i have said?
:p: wrong quote :dizzy

[Medvedenko]

Whott...I agree Odom when healthy and on his game can do so much on the court and has had good games when Kobe's out and even when Kobe in....however his injuries far outweight everything....he's missed more games last season than Marion has his entire careeer. If you have a health Lamar playing the same amount of games....well then we probably wouldn't be talking about a trade.

[Bruno]

I don't see why Lakers will trade Odom for Marion outside. I don't see Marion being good playing Jackson's triangle offense.
On the other hand, Suns won't be as good with Odom than with Marion.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

For the sake of Manu, I believe the best team for him is Rockets.
?

[meta2007]

Why not?


?

[WalterBenitez]

why don't Spurs go behind him?

[Xylus]

Whott...I agree Odom when healthy and on his game can do so much on the court and has had good games when Kobe's out and even when Kobe in....however his injuries far outweight everything....he's missed more games last season than Marion has his entire careeer. If you have a health Lamar playing the same amount of games....well then we probably wouldn't be talking about a trade.
Exactly. Marion's only missed 15 games in his last 6 seasons, while Odom rarely plays more than 60 games per season. If Odom was as durable as Marion, making that swap wouldn't be painful.

[exstatic]

Why not?
Because he has three rings in SA and Tim Duncan, fucktard. Why would he want to play with the injury ward that is TMac and Yao?

[meta2007]

He may or may not want to leave SA. He may have deep connection with SA and fans here. But it doesn't mean SA is the best place for him.

BTW, I think it is normal for players to get injured. I don't think Tmac and Yao will be injured every season.


Because he has three rings in SA and Tim Duncan, fucktard. Why would he want to play with the injury ward that is TMac and Yao?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

He may or may not want to leave SA. He may have deep connection with SA and fans here. But it doesn't mean SA is the best place for him.

BTW, I think it is normal for players to get injured. I don't think Tmac and Yao will be injured every season.
So you're supposedly a Spurs fan and you want him in Houston? This is definitely a Houston fan being a Spurs troll.

[meta2007]

I am a Manu fan, and always support his team.


So you're supposedly a Spurs fan and you want him in Houston? This is definitely a Houston fan being a Spurs troll.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Why is it exactly you are only a fan of Manu?

[meta2007]

I was only a fan of MJ. After he is retired, I become Manu's fan because they have same spirit and that is why I like bball.


Why is it exactly you are only a fan of Manu?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

So why do you refuse to root for a team?

[meta2007]

Actually, I root for Spurs now.


So why do you refuse to root for a team?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

So why do you want Manu in Houston?

[meta2007]

I believe Houston is better place for Manu.

But, we all know that Spurs won't trade Manu to Houston.

And, I always support his team.


So why do you want Manu in Houston?

[Hemotivo]

Teams for manu?

1) Spurs
2) Suns
3) Lakers

[anakha]

I believe Houston is better place for Manu.

But, we all know that Spurs won't trade Manu to Houston.

And, I always support his team.

Well, at least he's honest about being a Manu fan over being a Spurs fan. :lol

[whottt]

RE: Odom being injury prone


Agree..he has always been injury prone...

However...he never seems to be injured during the post season.

He can be injured all he wants with the Suns...they don't need him to win during the regular season...they need him to win in the post season.

Phoenix will roll to 58+ wins with or without him, the system is that good during the regular season....


Taking that into account...I still like this trade more for Phoenix than LA.


Marion's nickname ought to be the invisible man...he's just not a dominant player...to paraphrase Pop, he's a role player to the nth degree.


You never know...Phil may be able to coax more than that out of him...however, Marion seems to be a little on the sensitive side and I am not sure Phil's prodding is going to get the most out of him...

He plays extremely hard and he knows it...therefore any sort of impuning his game tends to get a negative reaction out of him...he's just not a dominant player and I don't think that can be changed. However....if anyone can change that, it will be Phil.

I still like the trade better for Phoenix...I don't see LA improving much at all.

[Xylus]

Marion is the ultimate role player, but I think it's unfair to say he disappears in the playoffs. His postseason statistics are pretty similar to his regular season statistics--I think his points go down slightly but his rebounds go up.

The only team who gives him problems is the Spurs, but he performs well against all other teams.