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IIRC, Odom is a major league pain in the ass to the Spurs.
My question to Spurs fans: How does Odom generally perform against your team? In your opinion, would Odom + another Laker be a more challenging addition to the Suns than Shawn Marion?By Sean Deveney, Sporting News
Posted September 25, 2007
Shawn Marion, L.A. Laker? If he has his way, that will happen.
According to a league source, the Lakers and Suns have been in discussions about a deal -- a blockbuster deal -- that would send the four-time All-Star to Los Angeles to play alongside Kobe Bryant. The Suns would get forward Lamar Odom and perhaps some salary-cap filler in return. The main obstacle appears to be Lakers owner Jerry Buss, who needs to OK the deal. Asked to handicap the likelihood of the deal going through, the source said, "50-50."
Upon hearing this, I caught up with Marion this afternoon by phone. He confirmed that he spoke with Bryant over the weekend, but added, "I've been friends with Kobe for a while, so we talk here and there, anyway."
Still, Marion was enthusiastic about the potential trade. "Why wouldn't I be?" he said. "You have a great organization, great ownership there with the Lakers. I don't see no problems with playing there."
This, it appears, would be a good fit for everyone. It has been a rocky summer for Marion and the Suns, who drafted him out of UNLV in 1999 but have been unwilling to give him a contract extension. Marion is the highest-paid player on the team, and he can opt out of the final year of his deal and become a free agent next summer.
One sticking point with the Suns is that Marion was told that if he does opt out, he will not be re-signed. Another goes back to before the draft, when the Suns had a deal in place to send Marion to the Celtics -- Boston had agreed to extend his contract if the trade went through. "I didn't like that," Marion said. "It was like they were trying to force my hand by taking the Boston deal. I have been with this team my whole career. I was like, 'Wow.' "[/b]
I asked if the team's refusal to give him an extension played into his unhappiness with the team. "It was part of it," Marion said. "It's not like that was the last straw or anything. It was just part of everything that has gone on. People have made assumptions about me, but I don't think all those people know everything that has gone on."
For the most part, though, Marion declined to talk about his unhappiness with the organization. "There's been things that have been said in the media, but I don't want to get into all that," he said. "That's not going to accomplish anything. Most people don't know what goes on behind closed doors. The way I look at it is, I love Phoenix, I love the fans. I love my teammates. Don't let anybody tell you that I don't. Some of the stuff that has happened is messed up. But pointing fingers and all that, I am bigger than that."
As for the potential Lakers-Suns trade, Odom would fit well in Phoenix's up-tempo offense. He is an excellent rebounder who can run the floor and handle the ball, like a point-forward. With the addition of small forward Grant Hill, the Suns clearly are looking to add players with ballhandling skill to take pressure off point guard Steve Nash, especially in the postseason.
Marion is not a classic big-man fit for Phil Jackson's triangle offense, which might be the source of the Lakers' hesitation. But, in some ways, he offers Jackson more than Odom, who has played alongside Bryant for three seasons. Both Odom and Bryant have put up nice numbers in those years, but the two just don't seem to mesh. Odom operates best running the floor and with the ball in his hands. But when you play for the Lakers, the ball is going to be in Bryant's hands. Odom has been professional about that, but this is a guy who has averaged 4.6 assists per game in his career. He belongs in a ball-sharing system.
Marion is different. He can excel without having plays called for him, and he gets the bulk of his points off turnovers and offensive rebounds -- in other words, he can be productive even if Bryant dominates the ball. He also can make 3-pointers and is a strong finisher. But the biggest difference will be Marion's defense. He's among the best defenders in the league, and he and Bryant should give the Lakers a fearsome pair of defensive wings. As important as the triangle is to Jackson, the most frustrating part of the coach's return to the Lakers in the last two years has been the team's shoddy defense.
Some will point to the Phoenix run-and-gun system when it comes to Marion's gaudy numbers (18.8 points and 10.0 rebounds in his career). But he had some of his best years when the Suns were a halfcourt team and Stephon Marbury was the point guard. And there also is this to consider: Marion is among the league's most durable players, missing just 15 games in those eight seasons. Odom is coming off shoulder surgery and missed four weeks with a sprained MCL last season.
"I think I would fit right in," Marion said. "People talk about the triangle offense all the time, like it is impossible. But it's an offense. Wherever you play, you have to learn the offense. It's not that complicated. You pass, you cut, you slash. Offense is offense. And I would love to play with Kobe."
Still, a change would be tough for Marion. "I wanted to retire a Phoenix Sun," he said. "That would be nice. I think everyone would like to play their whole career for the team that drafted them. But sometimes it comes to the point where you just have to take that step and move on. It's like a bad marriage. It doesn't matter who's right or wrong, both people should just move on."
Of course, there's just one catch: The Lakers might turn down the deal. That would mean that when training camp opens next Monday, Marion would still be with the Suns. Would he show up? "I am a professional," he says. "I will be where I am supposed to be."
IIRC, Odom is a major league pain in the ass to the Spurs.
Odom blows. He is overrated. There is no hope for the Suns. Nash is done.
Odom has smoked Marion the last two playoff series between the two teams.
I think odom is a tougher matchup because he is a big man that is versatile. He does not rely on other people to create his shot near as much as marion. It has been proven time and time again that the spurs can pretty much eliminate Marion's effectiveness when he plays the spurs. I am not sure I could say the same about odom. However the Udoka signing is looking better and better for the spurs, another good defender to lock someone down.
Usually Bowen does a very good job at shutting Marion, Odom can give the Spurs probs because I always remember him as always give them probs. So If phoenix can get it done. Good. Still won't beat us though.
Odom has had more success than Marion against the Spurs. But if this trade happens, the Suns will be a different team. The addition of Odom and Grant Hill, and loss of Marion, will slow this team down and change their character. Marion's game is a big part of the Suns run and gun style, and he is great at running the floor and leading the fast break. I don't know if that makes the Suns better or worse, but they would be different.
Odom will make Suns better against Spurs. But rating for Suns will go down since Odom is not as athletic as Marion. He will not run as fast as Marion
Odom isn't over rated, he's just under motivated. He's got the complete skill set of someone like KG, but the drive and motivation of someone like Rasheed. He always seems to cause us matchup problems, and I think he would be better for PHO, but I don't see how LA wants to do this trade. Marion is an over paid prima donna.
True. He seems like the type of guy to get content with a good game here or there. Dude has the ability though.
Odom has presented way more match-up difficulties for the Spurs than Marion ever has. Also if the Suns get Cook, he can very well flourish in their system. This makes the Suns better equipped IMO to battle San Antonio and Dallas.
I think Odom's a better player than Marion, but Phoenix is giving up one of their two defensive players if they make this move. It's like the team is saying 'to with trying to even try to play D' if they let go of Marion after dumping Kurt Thomas.
Odom gives Duncan lots of problems with his ability to face up and drive on him, but Odom guarding Duncan is a joke. I don't think Phoenix needs anymore offensive help, which is what makes the Hill signing + the Thomas salary dump so strange.
This trade would definitely benefit the out of LA. I don't think Phoenix needs what Odom brings to the table.
My thoughts exactly. Suns are getting the better end of the deal.
Marion is a gigantic baby. The Odom deal doesn't make as much sense to me as a Marion-AK47 deal. AK47 would be a mother er in Phoenix's system, other than he doesn't have great three point range.
If PHX gets KOBE, I'll be worried.
Odom tends to step up his game during the playoffs and Marion often disappears.
Odom is pretty damn good. He's talented and he's put a lot of his past trouble behind him. He'd also be an improvement chemistry-wise for the Suns.
Offensively, he'd fit pretty well with the Suns. He can shoot, and is a better one-on-one and post player than Marion. He's also better than Marion at passing and has a higher overall offensive basketball IQ.
The downgrade would be defensively. Marion for all of his whining was probably the best defensive player on the Suns (if it wasn't him it was probably Kurt Thomas). Marion can basically guard point guard through power forwards. With Odom, he's a player that can guard the small post players and the slower wings. And even then, he's not very good at it.
If the Suns have a lineup of:
PG Nash
SG Bell
SF Hill
PF Odom
C Stoudemire
That's a pretty porous defensive lineup. How exactly would the Suns try to guard the Spurs. Who is going to guard Duncan? Who is going to guard Parker?
It seriously looks like the Suns would be forced to have Nash guard Parker? Bell will guard Ginobili. Hill, Odom and Stoudemire can't guard Parker.
Duncan guarded by Odom or Stoudemire?
Parker guarded by Nash?
To take it a step further, the Spurs would actually have an easier time defending this version of the Suns. Duncan couldn't really guard Marion but he at least can buy time against Odom. Bowen could be put on anyone on the Suns team other than Stoudemire. Ginobili could guard Bell or Hill. Parker could guard Nash or Bell until he had to switch over on Barbosa.
Bowen on Nash
Parker on Bell
Ginobili on Hill
Oberto on Odom
Duncan on Stoudemire
I think the Suns lost any chance of guarding Timmy and beating the Spurs in a 7-game series when they traded Kurt Thomas.
Odom may present some more problems, but I think their better option is for Kirilenko here...
who hasn't smoked Marion in a playoff series?
will never happen unless its late in the 4th an Duncan has 2 fouls
Do you really want Fabricio guarding Odom from the top of the key? He wouldn't stand a chance of staying in front of him.
if odom does come to phoenix, would elson have a decent chance of guarding odom?
i'm not sure if oberto could stay in front of odom.
if udoka does play a lot like bruce, would bowen guard odom?
what do you guys think?
udoka - nash
parker - bell
manu - hill
bowen - odom
duncan - amare
would it work?
i don't know...too many ifs and woulds.
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magnusdrakenkrauss
Wow! Like I said in previous posts....I love Odom but I believe he needs to move on...he's too often injured, however he has a big heart and shows up in the playoffs. Still, it's time to move on...getting Marion another defensive player will help the Lakers for sure. Now we just need to trade for Jkidd and we'll be set
i forgot something.
laker fans, how would you make that trade?
let's say phoenix agrees to a trade. marion has a 16+ M contract. who would you give to match that contract? suppose the la fo and odom agree he would fit better in phoenix, who else would you be willing to give up to match marion's contract?
with the loss of odom, would you be willing to play marion out of position once more in the 4? or would you make him a 3? if you do put him in the SF position, who would you put at 4?
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magnusdrakenkrauss
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