Qualcomm vs. The Superdome

[Yonivore]

Civility Reigns at San Diego Stadium (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071023/D8SETS4G0.html)


SAN DIEGO (AP) - Like Hurricane Katrina evacuees two years earlier in New Orleans, thousands of people rousted by natural disaster fled to the NFL stadium here, waiting out the calamity and worrying about their homes.

The similarities ended there, as an almost festive atmosphere reigned at Qualcomm Stadium.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Sounds like very good planning. Kudos to CA.

[101A]

Sounds like very good planning. Kudos to CA....because they could see those fires coming for weeks!

:rolleyes

[Oh, Gee!!]

...because they could see those fires coming for weeks!

:rolleyes

what's your beef? They did a good job and they deserve praise.

[101A]

Sounds like very good planning. Kudos to CA.Or we could also trY;

Republican vs. Democrat administrations.

[Yonivore]

what's your beef? They did a good job and they deserve praise.
All without the federal government having to be in control. Imagine that. a state, county, and city that takes responsibility for its citizens emergency needs and a citizenry that can roll with an emergency.

You're right Oh, Gee!!, they deserve props.

I just think it's important to point out that victimhood can weigh you down. Here's hoping Governor Jindal pulls Louisiana out of the morass of corruption and pandering to which its citizens have grown so accustomed.

[Oh, Gee!!]

All without the federal government having to be in control. Imagine that. a state, county, and city that takes responsibility for its citizens emergency needs and a citizenry that can roll with an emergency.

You're right Oh, Gee!!, they deserve props.

I just think it's important to point out that victimhood can weigh you down. Here's hoping Governor Jindal pulls Louisiana out of the morass of corruption and pandering to which its citizens have grown so accustomed.


if this is a good thing, why are you angry?

[101A]

what's your beef? They did a good job and they deserve praise.
Agreed.

But why does Bush get the majority of the blame for New Orleans?

Seems like the constant in this case is the White House - same one.

Differences?

Local government, AND the people who have been evacuated.

[Oh, Gee!!]

But why does Bush get the majority of the blame for New Orleans?

that would be because of the slow response by FEMA and his apparent lack of concern until several days had passed.



Local government, AND the people who have been evacuated.

some problems (like Katrina) are bigger than the local government, and deserve the prompt attention of the federal government

[clambake]

...because they could see those fires coming for weeks!

:rolleyes
what you don't know about california is alot.

[Oh, Gee!!]

what you don't know about california is alot.


he also apparently thinks that coordinating food, beds, water, security, etc. simply occurs without planning.

[Yonivore]

if this is a good thing, why are you angry?
I'm not angry.

[Yonivore]

that would be because of the slow response by FEMA and his apparent lack of concern until several days had passed.
The President pleaded with Blanco to give the evacuation order three days before she did.

FEMA was staged and ready to respond and then, the levees broke on a bunch of people the city of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana failed to evacuate.

At that point, it became a rescue operation and moving shelter supplies into a city that failed to plan took a back seat to rescuing people off the rooves of their houses and busting through rooves to pull them out of their attics.

How many people died in New Orleans due to FEMA's delay?

How many people died because they failed to evacuate or were abandoned by the city?


some problems (like Katrina) are bigger than the local government, and deserve the prompt attention of the federal government
These fires have onset as rapidly as Katrina and have the potential to completely obliterate a much larger city and infrastructure than did Hurricane Katrina.

The only difference is we can't yet put out a hurricane while we can fight like hell to stop a fire. So, in fact, the fires have a much more complex logistical scenario than just moving people out of the path of a hurricane. No?

[FromWayDowntown]

The unwritten part of this story involves the fact that in the hours before Katrina hit, things were fairly jovial in the Superdome as well.

Problems, as subsequent reporting has shown, arose when those who had taken refuge at the Superdome were beset with hideous conditions mostly caused by the impacts of the storm -- no sewage, no fresh water, no electricity, holes in the roof that allowed rain and wind in, and other such things. People couldn't leave the Superdome, even if they had wanted to, because there was no safe place to go. Coop thousands of people into any leaking structure, tell them they can't leave, and keep them there without fresh water or sewage and no police presence, and you have the recipe for a disaster.

With the situation in San Diego, there isn't any concern about such conditions developing (at least that I'm aware of) because the fires aren't threatening to impair things like the availability of fresh water or the use of the sewage system. People will have electricity available. And, presumably, those who've sought refuge at Qualcomm Stadium are coming and going as they please -- for the most part.

The two situations are similar only inasmuch as people who are affected by a disaster are being housed in a football stadium. The similarity ends there.

On top of that, most of the world learned a valuable lesson from what happened at the Superdome during Katrina. What isn't mentioned in the clip that Yonivore cited is the fact that things in Qualcomm aren't at all like they were at the Superdome:


Aggressive efforts by disaster-response officials to bring supplies helped ensure civility. A heavy police contingent and National Guard troops with automatic weapons stood by just in case.

The New Orleans evacuees had dragged themselves through floodwaters to get to the Louisiana Superdome in 2005, and once there endured horrific conditions without food, sanitation or law enforcement.

But these evacuees drove to the expansive parking lots in the San Diego suburbs. The worst that most endured in their exodus was heavy traffic and smoky haze.

Certainly, local government has responded well to this situation, but that is undoubtedly a priority in no small part because of the lessons learned during Katrina.

And this wouldn't seem to be entirely a matter of local government mobilization -- I'm not sure that either the Mayor of San Diego or the Governor of California has the authority to unilaterally activate and deploy the National Guard, for example.

But it's always a better course to blame the victims of Katrina for their stupidity, I guess.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Bands belted out rock 'n' roll, lavish buffets served gourmet entrees, and massage therapists helped relieve the stress for those forced to flee their homes because of wildfires.

[101A]

The unwritten part of this story involves the fact that in the hours before Katrina hit, things were fairly jovial in the Superdome as well.

Problems, as subsequent reporting has shown, arose when those who had taken refuge at the Superdome were beset with hideous conditions mostly caused by the impacts of the storm -- no sewage, no fresh water, no electricity, holes in the roof that allowed rain and wind in, and other such things. People couldn't leave the Superdome, even if they had wanted to, because there was no safe place to go. Coop thousands of people into any leaking structure, tell them they can't leave, and keep them there without fresh water or sewage and no police presence, and you have the recipe for a disaster.

With the situation in San Diego, there isn't any concern about such conditions developing (at least that I'm aware of) because the fires aren't threatening to impair things like the availability of fresh water or the use of the sewage system. People will have electricity available. And, presumably, those who've sought refuge at Qualcomm Stadium are coming and going as they please -- for the most part.

The two situations are similar only inasmuch as people who are affected by a disaster are being housed in a football stadium. The similarity ends there.

On top of that, most of the world learned a valuable lesson from what happened at the Superdome during Katrina. What isn't mentioned in the clip that Yonivore cited is the fact that things in Qualcomm aren't at all like they were at the Superdome:



Certainly, local government has responded well to this situation, but that is undoubtedly a priority in no small part because of the lessons learned during Katrina.

But it's always a better course to blame the victims of Katrina for their stupidity, I guess.
And this wouldn't seem to be entirely a matter of local government mobilization -- I'm not sure that either the Mayor of San Diego or the Governor of California has the authority to unilaterally activate and deploy the National Guard, for example.No water, sewage or a good roof?

For thousands of residents stranded in a COASTAL city?

I think bad planning pretty much sums the whole thing up, doesn't it?

Granted, the people involved in California would probably be little happier in the SuperDome environment; but those same people probably would have, and apparently HAVE, demanded more from their govt. (of the people, by the people) in being prepared for an inevitible event!

If it is the local government's fault; then it is the people's fault.

[Yonivore]

The unwritten part of this story involves the fact that in the hours before Katrina hit, things were fairly jovial in the Superdome as well.

Problems, as subsequent reporting has shown, arose when those who had taken refuge at the Superdome were beset with hideous conditions mostly caused by the impacts of the storm -- no sewage, no fresh water, no electricity, holes in the roof that allowed rain and wind in, and other such things. People couldn't leave the Superdome, even if they had wanted to, because there was no safe place to go. Coop thousands of people into any leaking structure, tell them they can't leave, and keep them there without fresh water or sewage and no police presence, and you have the recipe for a disaster.
Let's see...who was it that designated the Superdome a shelter and then failed to supply it as one?

Yep. Ray Nagin.


With the situation in San Diego, there isn't any concern about such conditions developing (at least that I'm aware of) because the fires aren't threatening to impair things like the availability of fresh water or the use of the sewage system. People will have electricity available. And, presumably, those who've sought refuge at Qualcomm Stadium are coming and going as they please -- for the most part.
Maybe you shouldn't designate a sports arena as a shelter with a Cat 3 hurricane bearing down...particularly if you're not going to plan for sanitation and power and food needs.


The two situations are similar only inasmuch as people who are affected by a disaster are being housed in a football stadium. The similarity ends there.
Not really. Qualcomm is prepared for the influx...The Superdome was not.


On top of that, most of the world learned a valuable lesson from what happened at the Superdome during Katrina. What isn't mentioned in the clip that Yonivore cited is the fact that things in Qualcomm aren't at all like they were at the Superdome. Certainly, local government has responded well to this situation, but that is undoubtedly a priority in no small part because of the lessons learned during Katrina.
Maybe. Maybe not.


But it's always a better course to blame the victims of Katrina for their stupidity, I guess.
I'm not blaming the victims. I'm blaming the Mayor and Govenor for failing to properly act on the victims behalves.


And this wouldn't seem to be entirely a matter of local government mobilization -- I'm not sure that either the Mayor of San Diego or the Governor of California has the authority to unilaterally activate and deploy the National Guard, for example.
The Govenor can mobilize the National Guard...unilaterally.

[clambake]

Hey, everyone is missing something important.

It's time to give our President a little credit here.

Obviously, someone told him it's a bad thing to go to a golf resort in Arizona during a major disaster. I know what you're thinking, it's a no-brainer for even the mentally challanged, but this is "W" we're talking about. So let's give 3 cheers to a guy that might be listening to his handlers.

[George Gervin's Afro]

well the situations are so similar this comaprison is valid one. :rolleyes

[Yonivore]

well the situations are so similar this comaprison is valid one. :rolleyes
Yes, it is.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yes, it is.


wildfires = broken levees

wildfires = worst national disaster in history

wildfire = flooding of an entire city..

I can see the comparisons :rolleyes

[Yonivore]

wildfires = broken levees
Yes.


wildfires = worst national disaster in history
The cost of the wildfires could equal -- or exceed -- that of Hurrican Katrina before they are extinguished. Yes.

In terms of human loss, Katrina isn't even close. Just over 1,800 people -- over the entire path of Katrina (not just in New Orleans) -- versus over 9,000 in the 1900 Hurricane. Yes, it was one of the five deadliest storms but, in terms of national disasters, September 11, eclipses it in terms of lives lost and economic damage on a national level.


wildfire = flooding of an entire city..
Burn it down, flood it out -- yes, equal.


I can see the comparisons :rolleyes
Yes, you can...it's the accidental :rolleyes emoticon that's throwing everyone off.

[ChumpDumper]

Yoni hates black people.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yoni hates black people.


he just may after comparing a wildfire to a flood.. that dude is losing it..

[Oh, Gee!!]

In terms of human loss, Katrina isn't even close. Just over 1,800 people

yeah GGA, it was just 1800 people. Don't be such a crybaby.


Yes, it was one of the five deadliest storms but, in terms of national disasters, September 11, eclipses it in terms of lives lost and economic damage on a national level.


Try to keep up, Yoni. We're comparing natural disasters here.

[Yonivore]

yeah GGA, it was just 1800 people. Don't be such a crybaby.
He called it the "worst national disaster in history."

It's not even close.


Try to keep up, Yoni. We're comparing natural disasters here.
He said "national," not "natural." You keep up...or, maybe we've reached your intellectual limit.

[Yonivore]

he just may after comparing a wildfire to a flood.. that dude is losing it..
This isn't a wildfire in the middle of Montana.

[Yonivore]

he just may after comparing a wildfire to a flood.. that dude is losing it..
I love black people.

[xrayzebra]

The unwritten part of this story involves the fact that in the hours before Katrina hit, things were fairly jovial in the Superdome as well.

Problems, as subsequent reporting has shown, arose when those who had taken refuge at the Superdome were beset with hideous conditions mostly caused by the impacts of the storm -- no sewage, no fresh water, no electricity, holes in the roof that allowed rain and wind in, and other such things. People couldn't leave the Superdome, even if they had wanted to, because there was no safe place to go. Coop thousands of people into any leaking structure, tell them they can't leave, and keep them there without fresh water or sewage and no police presence, and you have the recipe for a disaster.

With the situation in San Diego, there isn't any concern about such conditions developing (at least that I'm aware of) because the fires aren't threatening to impair things like the availability of fresh water or the use of the sewage system. People will have electricity available. And, presumably, those who've sought refuge at Qualcomm Stadium are coming and going as they please -- for the most part.

The two situations are similar only inasmuch as people who are affected by a disaster are being housed in a football stadium. The similarity ends there.

On top of that, most of the world learned a valuable lesson from what happened at the Superdome during Katrina. What isn't mentioned in the clip that Yonivore cited is the fact that things in Qualcomm aren't at all like they were at the Superdome:



Certainly, local government has responded well to this situation, but that is undoubtedly a priority in no small part because of the lessons learned during Katrina.

And this wouldn't seem to be entirely a matter of local government mobilization -- I'm not sure that either the Mayor of San Diego or the Governor of California has the authority to unilaterally activate and deploy the National Guard, for example.

But it's always a better course to blame the victims of Katrina for their stupidity, I guess.

Oh yes, victims of Katrina. You could almost include
Bush and his administration in that statement.

The mayor of a city and the governor of a state let
buses flood, put no food or water in a shelter, no medical
help for "victims" and refuse to let the Red Cross come
in with help and then blame the Feds for the locals
not doing their job.

I am sure they didn't want to declare emergency till
they got their plan all worked out: how to split the
loot from the U.S. Treasury.

I notice how all those folks from N.O. are beating the
doors down to get back down there and into their
great dimm-o-craptic society, where the milk and honey
flows.

You know the chocolate society.

Tell me more all you most wonderful defenders of
the dimms and haters of Bush.

[George Gervin's Afro]

This isn't a wildfire in the middle of Montana.


well there you have it. thanks for clearing that up.. :wtf

[Oh, Gee!!]

I love black people.

what he says.


I love black people, they make great target practice.


what he means.

[Yonivore]

well there you have it. thanks for clearing that up.. :wtf
Northern San Diego County is in danger of being completely wiped out by fire. I don't know the numbers but, I dare say there are as many homes and structures in the path of the fires as there are in the portions of New Orleans inundated by water.

So, yes, wildfires can equal hurricanes.

[Yonivore]

what he says.

what he means.
You're kind of obsessed with this, aren't you? Maybe a bit of projection.

I never raised the issue of race...you did.

[clambake]

I notice how all those folks from N.O. are beating the
doors down to get back down there and into their
great dimm-o-craptic society, where the milk and honey
flows.

You know the chocolate society.

Tell me more all you most wonderful defenders of
the dimms and haters of Bush.

Yep, that definitely sounds like some Rush brain washing.

[xrayzebra]

Yep, that definitely sounds like some Rush brain washing.

Really and what part of the statement is wrong? Oh, yeah,
I know. The taco stands in N.O. are thriving with the new
immigrants.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You're kind of obsessed with this, aren't you? Maybe a bit of projection.

I never raised the issue of race...you did.

actually, Chump raised the issue. I made a joke at your expense.

[ChumpDumper]

People in northern San Diego county have cars and money. And electricity. And water. And no armed gangs keeping them from crossing bridges.

[Yonivore]

actually, Chump raised the issue. I made a joke at your expense.
I've got chump on ignore so, in my browser, you raised it.

And, I don't feel any poorer so the expense must have been miniscule. But, whatever floats your Superdome.

[clambake]

People in northern San Diego county have cars and money. And electricity. And water. And no armed gangs keeping them from crossing bridges.
just as ray said, it's not a chocolate society

[George Gervin's Afro]

isn't california predominantly liberal? so would ray give the overwhelmingly liberal populace props for handling the tragedy in a good way? i hear ray all of the time blaming the dems for new orleans so to be consistent ray would have to praise the dems in california?

[Yonivore]

isn't california predominantly liberal? so would ray give the overwhelmingly liberal populace props for handling the tragedy in a good way? i hear ray all of the time blaming the dems for new orleans so to be consistent ray would have to praise the dems in california?
That part of San Diego County is very conservative and they have a Republican Governor.

http://beingornothingness.blogs.com/living/images/electioncountymap.gif

[ChumpDumper]

And cars.

[George Gervin's Afro]

That part of San Diego County is very conservative and they have a Republican Governor.

http://beingornothingness.blogs.com/living/images/electioncountymap.gif


what were the 2006 breakdowns?

[Oh, Gee!!]

And cars.

Katrina evacuees shoulda had boats then.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Katrina evacuees shoulda had boats then.


and should have predicted the levees would break.

[clambake]

let him play with his phony map, phoney pics, who cares.

looking at that map, it would indicate that there is a shitload of republicans that hate their man.

[xrayzebra]

People in northern San Diego county have cars and money. And electricity. And water. And no armed gangs keeping them from crossing bridges.

But N.O. was run by the dimm-o-craps before Bush
was elected. Is it his fault or his administrations fault
that all the circumstances you described were present?

[George Gervin's Afro]

let him play with his phony map, phoney pics, who cares.

looking at that map, it would indicate that there is a shitload of republicans that hate their man.


i know but i wanted to see if he could produce the more up to date voting trends.

[clambake]

But N.O. was run by the dimm-o-craps before Bush
was elected. Is it his fault or his administrations fault
that all the circumstances you described were present?
i don't know. I tried to ask him but he'd taken off to a golf resort in Arizona.

[Oh, Gee!!]

and should have predicted the levees would break.


and a better dome.

[xrayzebra]

isn't california predominantly liberal? so would ray give the overwhelmingly liberal populace props for handling the tragedy in a good way? i hear ray all of the time blaming the dems for new orleans so to be consistent ray would have to praise the dems in california?

Well you really don't know Northern San Diego. I do.
Believe me they are not what you would call Liberal
dimm-o-craps. They are strange tho. I hate driving
in one of the areas that has experienced the fires,
Racho Bernardo, you cant come out of a parking lot
and turn left. U-turns are a way of life in Ca. But
never mind. I have to go get another med.......lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

i don't know. I tried to ask him but he'd taken off to a golf resort in Arizona.


well i heard condi found a great deal on shoes.

[xrayzebra]

i don't know. I tried to ask him but he'd taken off to a golf resort in Arizona.

Lost again on what to say Clam. As always. Just hate
Bush. That's is all that is required of folks like you.

[clambake]

Well you really don't know Northern San Diego. I do.
Believe me they are not what you would call Liberal
dimm-o-craps.
camp pendleton area doesn't count

[clambake]

Lost again on what to say Clam. As always. Just hate
Bush. That's is all that is required of folks like you.
hay, i just thought it was sleezy for any president to play golf at a private resort while his people are dying.

[George Gervin's Afro]

hay, i just thought it was sleezy for any president to play golf at a private resort while his people are dying.


you evil man.. why do you hate the troops?

[xrayzebra]

camp pendleton area doesn't count

Does Miramar?

[JohnnyMarzetti]

If the fires were threatening black neighborhoods it would be a totally different story and even Yonivore needs to admit that.

[xrayzebra]

If the fires were threatening black neighborhoods it would be a totally different story and even Yonivore needs to admit that.


Holy smokes, they have blacks in California too. And
in the areas that are burning. And lets not forget the
"immigrants".

[Oh, Gee!!]

ray's soused

[Mike D.Brown]

You all have me to thank. And the comparison is mute since Katrina was a wake up call for FEMA. That is the difference and to spin it otherwise is pathetic. Even for yonivore.

[101A]

If the fires were threatening black neighborhoods it would be a totally different story and even Yonivore needs to admit that.Yeah, they'd blame Bush for the fires.

[xrayzebra]

ray's soused

I am? How did that happen? Hmmmmm, maybe I
need to go get an adult beverage.

I am just wondering what gave OG that impression.

[clambake]

ray's soused
you would be too if you spent the last years of your life trying to defend an idiot.

[Oh, Gee!!]

you've lost the use of your mental faculties for one.

[xrayzebra]

you would be too if you spent the last years of your life trying to defend an idiot.

Oh, come on clam. Be nice to old folks. I let you have
your dreams of you and Billary together.

[xrayzebra]

you've lost the use of your mental faculties for one.


Really, why do you say that? Because I support my
President. Or because I point out you hate him.

[clambake]

Oh, come on clam. Be nice to old folks. I let you have
your dreams of you and Billary together.
I was just kidding ray.

I hope you live long enough to realize.

[Nbadan]

cool fire pics..


http://www.fireworksland.com/misc/fires.jpg

[xrayzebra]

Witch creek area is where Rancho Bernado is located.

[clambake]

cool fire pics..


http://www.fireworksland.com/misc/fires.jpg
yeah, cool, thanks for reminding me that buckweed and ranch fires are closing in.

it's ok. we have cars, we're not black and it's full of rich white people.

[Nbadan]

So much for compassionate Conservatism.....


On the October 22 edition of his nationally syndicated radio program, host Glenn Beck stated, "I think there is a handful of people who hate America. Unfortunately for them, a lot of them are losing their homes in a forest fire today." Beck continued: "There are a few people that hate America. But I don't think the Democrats are those. I think there are those posing as Democrats that are like that." Beck's comment came as forest fires ravaged parts of Southern California, leaving one person dead, four firefighters wounded, and forcing about 1,500 people from their homes, according to The New York Times."

Media Matters (http://mediamatters.org/items/200710220003)

Ah, yes that liberal beacon CNN...

:rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

But N.O. was run by the dimm-o-craps before Bush
was elected. Is it his fault or his administrations fault
that all the circumstances you described were present?The failure of the levees is an ACoE issue. The failure of government on all levels belied a lack of imagination form all parties concerned similar to that surrounding 9/11. Nobody could even fathom a worst case scenarios so no one did anything about it.

[xrayzebra]

The failure of the levees is an ACoE issue. The failure of government on all levels belied a lack of imagination form all parties concerned similar to that surrounding 9/11. Nobody could even fathom a worst case scenarios so no one did anything about it.

But Chump is was fathomed and money was allocated to
LA for it. But somehow under a dimm-o-craptic administration it got diverted. Those are facts. Look
them up. Don't ask me for links. Do a little work yourself.

[ChumpDumper]

But Chump is was fathomed and money was allocated to
LA for it. But somehow under a dimm-o-craptic administration it got diverted. Those are facts. Look
them up. Don't ask me for links. Do a little work yourself.Sorry ray. The levee system is the responsibility of the ACoE. One section that failed was not built to spec, others were poorly designed.

[George Gervin's Afro]

White House: Katrina lessons applied to California fires

Oct 23 04:29 PM US/Eastern

The White House worked Tuesday to assure the US public that it had learned its lesson from the botched response to Hurricane Katrina, as it now grappled with devastating fires in California.
"I think that there were lessons learned from Katrina, especially in regards to early communication and coordination between the federal, state, and local governments," spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters at a daily briefing.

US President George W. Bush, who was very criticized for the sluggish response to Katrina from Washington two years ago, quickly reached out to California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, she said.

"Governor Schwarzenegger did tell the President he felt he was getting what he needed, but the president said, 'you've got an open line of communication, and if you need more, you just have to let us know,'" she said.

Overnight Monday into Tuesday, Bush declared that the state, where some 500,000 people have been ordered to leave their homes in the face of the advancing fires, was eligible for federal aid.

On Tuesday, Bush sent Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, David Paulison, to the devastated areas in the state.

"All of us across this nation are concerned for the families who have lost their homes, and the many families who have been evacuated from their homes. We send our prayers and thoughts with those who've been affected, and we send the help of the federal government, as well," Bush said.

"Today I have sent Secretary Chertoff and Director Paulison of the FEMA to go out to California to listen, develop an inventory of supplies and help that we can provide," he said in a speech.

Perino displayed slides showing the amount of federal aid sent so far -- including cots, blankets and 280,000 bottles of water -- "to alert people to what the federal government is doing in order to help."

"The state and local governments are working quite well together, as well, which is why we've had a good coordinated response. It's a very dangerous situation," she said.

Hey wait a minute. You mean we have learned from Katrina? The resident republicans on this board want to make it a dem vs republican issue.. So the resulting reaction is derived from the lessons from katrina... but,but,but i thought it was republicans being in charge..

[Yonivore]

Hey wait a minute. You mean we have learned from Katrina? The resident republicans on this board want to make it a dem vs republican issue.. So the resulting reaction is derived from the lessons from katrina... but,but,but i thought it was republicans being in charge..
Platitudes...

President Bush reached out to Governor Blanco several days before landfall and pleaded for her to order an evacution. She refused.

FEMA staged resources in Texas and Florida...days before landfall.

President Bush offered assistance before landfall.

The lessons learned -- but probably already well understood by the folks in San Diego county is that you don't bitch about government with the waters pouring in or the fire's breaching the break. You get off your ass and do something constructive.

[ChumpDumper]

You drive way in your Tahoe and get a room at the Wyndham.

[Yonivore]

Governor Blanco refused (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html) to hand over the evacuation to Federal authorities despite pleading from the Bush Administration.


Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight [last] Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state’s emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. “Quite frankly, if they’d been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals,” said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.
So the Governor and the Mayor were more concerned about who would be blamed in advance of the catastrophe rather than caring about using all resources available to save their citizens’ lives?


A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.
Further, it was President Bush… not Blanco or Nagin… who had to demand the evacuation of New Orleans on Sunday.

I’m sure that the President and FEMA assumed that New Orleans and state officials would follow their own evacuation plans, especially since they refused Federal help on Sunday. And that they would use the drowned buses to save lives that are normally used to make sure Democrats get to the polls on time every four years.

[clambake]

geez, if only they were as good at action as they are at spinning.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So the Governor and the Mayor were more concerned about who would be blamed in advance of the catastrophe rather than caring about using all resources available to save their citizens’ lives?

the request was made the Friday after landfall. you're making it seem as though the request was made the Friday before landfall.

[Yonivore]

the request was made the Friday after landfall. you're making it seem as though the request was made the Friday before landfall.
The Friday before landfall, there were no rescues to be performed. The White House was trying to get Blanco to order an evacuation that would have preclude the need for rescues.

[TheSuckUp]

The Friday before landfall, there were no rescues to be performed. The White House was trying to get Blanco to order an evacuation that would have preclude the need for rescues.

You are good....very good.

[exstatic]

The Bush admin evacuated SD and provided shelter? More like they jumped into their Lexuses and drove to the downtown Marriott for a "campout".

Poor N.O. peeps <> Rich Cali hill people.

[Hook Dem]

The Bush admin evacuated SD and provided shelter? More like they jumped into their Lexuses and drove to the downtown Marriott for a "campout".

Poor N.O. peeps <> Rich Cali hill people.
So rich cali hill people get no sympathy from you? Even if their home burns to the ground? WOW! :clap

[exstatic]

I guarantee you that within 2 years, the time that has passed since Katrina, all of those people will have their Lexus parked in a new garage on a different tinderbox SoCal hillside. Other than the unfortunate two people that died, why SHOULD I feel sorry for them? They lost some possessions and possibly their home, which insurance will cover, unlike the Gulf coasters, where the insurance companies are playing the flood card.

The only thing that I see that the people of N.O. have in common with the people of S.D. is that I think they are crazy to live where they do.

[Yonivore]

I guarantee you that within 2 years, the time that has passed since Katrina, all of those people will have their Lexus parked in a new garage on a different tinderbox SoCal hillside. Other than the unfortunate two people that died, why SHOULD I feel sorry for them? They lost some possessions and possibly their home, which insurance will cover, unlike the Gulf coasters, where the insurance companies are playing the flood card.

The only thing that I see that the people of N.O. have in common with the people of S.D. is that I think they are crazy to live where they do.
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Yes, there are millionaires and their mansions being affected...just as there were in New Orleans. But, most of those affected by the fires, just as there was in New Orleans, are the working class and immigrants of Northern San Diego County. Escondido isn't La Jolla.

[Yonivore]

Incidentally, I'm seeing on ABC, right now, that there are 2,000,000 illegal immigrants in the path of the fires that refuse to leave the fields because they're afraid they'll lose their jobs.

2,000,000...

I think we've found the victims the media was looking for...expect this to be an immigration issue before morning.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

what's your beef? They did a good job and they deserve praise.they actually evacuated when they were told to evacuate. you mean to tell me they listened? wow. i bet that helped alot.

[Yonivore]

they actually evacuated when they were told to evacuate. you mean to tell me they listened? wow. i bet that helped alot.
Well, now we've got the illegals refusing to leave their fields. So, should something happen to them, I'm sure it'll be Bush's fault.

[PixelPusher]

Well, now we've got the illegals refusing to leave their fields. So, should something happen to them, I'm sure it'll be Bush's fault.
That what they get for not having cars and enough spare cash to rent a hotel for a couple weeks.

[101A]

That what they get for not having cars and enough spare cash to rent a hotel for a couple weeks.What?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Governor Blanco refused (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html) to hand over the evacuation to Federal authorities despite pleading from the Bush Administration.


So the Governor and the Mayor were more concerned about who would be blamed in advance of the catastrophe rather than caring about using all resources available to save their citizens’ lives?


Further, it was President Bush… not Blanco or Nagin… who had to demand the evacuation of New Orleans on Sunday.

I’m sure that the President and FEMA assumed that New Orleans and state officials would follow their own evacuation plans, especially since they refused Federal help on Sunday. And that they would use the drowned buses to save lives that are normally used to make sure Democrats get to the polls on time every four years.

but they nagin/blanco managed to convince some 85% of the population to evacuate yoni?

oh lord the not the buses again.. i am surprised you haven't found a picture of a car lot and them blamed nagin for not getting the keys for every car and picking up the remaining folks by himself.. :rolleyes

I seem to recall you enjoy using the 'mistakes happen in wars' schtick yet mistakes can't happen during the worst natural disater in American history... but,but,but they had buses..

can mistakes happen during natural disasters? yes or no.

[101A]

but they nagin/blanco managed to convince some 85% of the population to evacuate yoni?

oh lord the not the buses again.. i am surprised you haven't found a picture of a car lot and them blamed nagin for not getting the keys for every car and picking up the remaining folks by himself.. :rolleyes

I seem to recall you enjoy using the 'mistakes happen in wars' schtick yet mistakes can't happen during the worst natural disater in American history... but,but,but they had buses..I haven't heard the national media call New Orleans "Mistakes". They place the blame SQUARELY at the feet of the President and suggest, in slightly veiled language, that the result is because Bush doesn't care about poor black people. Nagin et al. get very little blame from the M$M.

[ElNono]

I predict Insurance companies start declaring bankruptcy in the upcoming weeks/months... And no, I won't be blaming the administration for that.
However, once that happens, I will probably be blaming congress in general for passing a 'California Aid Act' bailing those companies out.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I haven't heard the national media call New Orleans "Mistakes". They place the blame SQUARELY at the feet of the President and suggest, in slightly veiled language, that the result is because Bush doesn't care about poor black people. Nagin et al. get very little blame from the M$M.


I have have personally never blamed bush. there are many things that could have happened differently but Bush was not the reason why everything was f*cked up. Enough with the media.. jesus.. if it's not bush's fault it's the media's fault.. :rolleyes

[Yonivore]

but they nagin/blanco managed to convince some 85% of the population to evacuate yoni?

oh lord the not the buses again.. i am surprised you haven't found a picture of a car lot and them blamed nagin for not getting the keys for every car and picking up the remaining folks by himself.. :rolleyes
Well, if the car lots were a part of of the city's evacuation plan -- as use of school buses were -- yeah, I'd fault him for not taking advantage of that resource as well.


I seem to recall you enjoy using the 'mistakes happen in wars' schtick yet mistakes can't happen during the worst natural disater in American history... but,but,but they had buses..
Human adversaries are quite unpredictable...no so with a natural disaster.

And, please, enough with this "worst natural disaster in American History" nonsense. Just off the top of my head, the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906; approximately 3,000 dead and a major city destroyed. And, the 1900 Galveston hurricane; 9,000+ dead and, again, a major city in ruins...covered by more water than inundated New Orleans.


can mistakes happen during natural disasters? yes or no.
I think that's pretty apparent. Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco are poster children for how political concerns can lead one to make mistakes during a natural disaster.

[Hook Dem]

"The only thing that I see that the people of N.O. have in common with the people of S.D. is that I think they are crazy to live where they do." I figured that would come up sooner or later. Unfortunately, these people did not have a say as to where their folks had sex. Same as the people of N.O., it has always been home. Some might say you are crazy for living in San Antonio because of floods, but they would be wrong!

[Oh, Gee!!]

The Friday before landfall, there were no rescues to be performed. The White House was trying to get Blanco to order an evacuation that would have preclude the need for rescues.

the Friday before landfall the governor declared a state of emergency, Bush didn't do anything at all until after landfall. you sure have a strange way of remembering things (meaning untrue and only in the best possible light for bush).

[Oh, Gee!!]

they actually evacuated when they were told to evacuate. you mean to tell me they listened? wow. i bet that helped alot.

I was referring to the response from the local agencies, you dope.

[Yonivore]

the Friday before landfall the governor declared a state of emergency, Bush didn't do anything at all until after landfall. you sure have a strange way of remembering things (meaning untrue and only in the best possible light for bush).
Nice diversion...

You're right Blanco declared a state of emergency on the 26th, well before landfall.

However, we're talking about the evacuation order and emergency declarations don't always include an evacuation order, though, in this case it probably should have. Both Max Mayfield, with the NOAA, and President Bush had to plead with Governor Blanco to order an evacuation before, finally, it was done.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Nice diversion...

You're right Blanco declared a state of emergency on the 26th, well before landfall.

However, we're talking about the evacuation order and emergency declarations don't always include an evacuation order, though, in this case it probably should have. Both Max Mayfield, with the NOAA, and President Bush had to plead with Governor Blanco to order an evacuation before, finally, it was done.


the majority of new orleans evacuated. why don continually ignore that? from all indications a vast majority of people evacuated... I guess 85-90% isn't good enough mr. 'mistakes happen'..

[Yonivore]

the majority of new orleans evacuated. why don continually ignore that? from all indications a vast majority of people evacuated... I guess 85-90% isn't good enough mr. 'mistakes happen'..
This isn't about the evacuation order. It's about how Nagin and Blanco were playing politics and, then, when their mistake became apparent -- started pushing blame onto the feds.

There's a whole lot more that was wrong with Louisiana that made Katrina a horrible disaster than just Nagin and Blanco.

Decades of Louisiana politicians diverting money, intended for upgrading the levee system, into pork projects is probably at the top of the heap. I don't know all their party affiliations but, being that Louisiana has been, in the past a largely Democratic stronghold, It's a safe bet they were Democrats.

Then you have the fact that unbridled growth in an area -- geographically below sea level -- is just plain stupid. Personally, I think trying to rebuild there is just as stupid.

[George Gervin's Afro]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/index.html


New Orleans braces for monster hurricane
Crescent City under evacuation; storm may overwhelm levees

Monday, August 29, 2005; Posted: 12:10 a.m. EDT (04:10 GMT)


Manage Alerts | What Is This? NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- New Orleans braced for a catastrophic blow from Hurricane Katrina overnight, as forecasters predicted the Category 5 storm could drive a wall of water over the city's levees.

The huge storm, packing 160 mph winds, is expected to hit the northern Gulf Coast in the next nine hours and make landfall as a Category 4 or 5 hurricane Monday morning.

The National Hurricane Center reports that conditions are already deteriorating along the central and northeastern coast. (Watch video to see the worst case scenario)

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declared a state of emergency Sunday and ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city. (Watch video of mayor's announcement)

"This is a threat that we've never faced before," Nagin said. "If we galvanize and gather around each other, I'm sure we will get through this."

He exempted essential federal, state, and local personnel; emergency and utility workers; transit workers; media; hotel workers; and patrons from the evacuation order.

About 1.3 million people live in New Orleans and its suburbs, and many began evacuating before sunrise. (Watch video to see who's staying and who's leaving)

Nagin estimated that nearly 1 million people had fled the city and its surrounding parishes by Sunday night. (Watch time lapse video of the evacuation)

Between 20,000 and 25,000 others who remained in the city lined up to take shelter in the Louisiana Superdome, lining up for what authorities warned would be an unpleasant day and a half at minimum.

City officials told stranded tourists to stay on third-floor levels or higher and away from windows. (See video from New Orleans, a city below sea level)

Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said that New Orleans could expect a complete loss of electricity and water services as well as intense flooding.

"We know we're going to have property damage," she told CNN's "Larry King Live." "We know we're going to have high wind damage. We're hoping we're not going to lose a lot of lives."

About 70 percent of New Orleans is below sea level, and is protected from the Mississippi River by a series of levees. (Full story)

Forecasters predicted the storm surge could reach 28 feet; the highest levees around New Orleans are 18 feet high.

Hurricane-force winds extend 105 miles from the center of the mammoth storm and tropical storm-force winds extend outward up to 230 miles. It is the most powerful storm to menace the central Gulf Coast in decades.

Isolated tornadoes are also possible Sunday across southern portions of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and the Florida Panhandle, forecasters said.

Federal Emergency Management Agency teams and other emergency teams were in place to move in as soon as the storm was over, FEMA Undersecretary Michael Brown said.

Katrina is blamed for at least seven deaths in Florida, where it made landfall Thursday as a Category 1 hurricane. As much as 18 inches of rain fell in some areas, flooding streets and homes. (See video of the damage floodwaters left in one family's new house)

At midnight ET, Katrina was centered about 90 miles south of the mouth of the Mississippi River. It was moving to the northwest at about 10 mph.

National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield said: "There's certainly a chance it can weaken a bit before it gets to the coast, but unfortunately this is so large and so powerful that it's a little bit like the difference between being run over by an 18-wheeler or a freight train. Neither prospect is good." (Watch Mayfield's assessment of Katrina)

Bush issues disaster declarations
President Bush announced Sunday that he had issued disaster declarations for Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of southern Florida. The declaration for Miami-Dade and Broward counties in Florida will allow residents there to apply for federal disaster aid.

"We'll do everything in our power to help the people and communities affected by this storm," he said.

The president urged anyone in the storm's path "to put their own safety and the safety of their families first by moving to safe ground."

Jesse St. Amant, the emergency management chief for Louisiana's southernmost Plaquemines Parish, said nearly 95 percent of the parish's 27,000-plus residents had fled by Sunday afternoon. Those who remained were being told that they are "gambling with their own lives."

"I think they just don't believe something of this nature can ever happen in their lifespan, and I think they're going to be wrong," he said.

As far east as Mobile, Alabama, 118 miles away from New Orleans, authorities warned of storm surges approaching 20 feet.

"I'm afraid most people look at the map and say, 'It's going to New Orleans, we're all right,'" said Mobile Mayor Mike Deal. "We're in harm's way with the current path of this storm."

Hurricane warnings are posted from Morgan City, Louisiana, eastward to the Alabama-Florida state line, including New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain. This means winds of at least 74 mph are expected in the warning area within the next 24 hours.

A tropical storm warning and a hurricane watch are in effect from the Alabama-Florida state line eastward to Destin, Florida, and from west of Morgan City to Intracoastal City, Louisiana. A tropical storm warning is also in effect from Intracoastal City, Louisiana, west to Cameron, Louisiana, and from Destin, Florida, eastward to Indian Pass, Florida.

A tropical storm warning means tropical storm conditions, including winds of at least 39 mph, are expected within 24 hours. A hurricane watch means hurricane conditions are possible, usually within 36 hours.

Category 5 is the most intense on the Saffir-Simpson scale. Only three Category 5 hurricanes have made landfall in the United States since records were kept. Those were the Labor Day hurricane of 1935, 1969's Hurricane Camille and Hurricane Andrew, which devastated the Miami area in 1992. Andrew remains the costliest U.S. hurricane on record, with $26.5 billion in losses.

Camille came ashore in Mississippi and killed 256 people

[Yonivore]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/index.html
Sunday. A full two days after federal authorities had started calling for the evacuation.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Sunday. A full two days after federal authorities had started calling for the evacuation.


as of the following monday nobody was sure where the storm was heading?

[George Gervin's Afro]

The Louisiana Superdome, normally home of professional football's Saints, became the shelter of last resort Sunday for thousands of the area's poor, homeless and frail. Among those who lined up for blocks as National Guardsmen searched them for guns, knives and drugs were residents who hobbled to safety on crutches, canes and stretchers.

"We just took the necessities," said Michael Skipper, who pulled a wagon loaded with bags of clothes and a radio. "The good stuff — the television and the furniture — you just have to hope something's there when you get back. If it's not, you just start over."



Terry Ebbert, New Orleans director of homeland security, said more than 4,000 National Guardsmen were mobilizing in Memphis and will help police New Orleans streets

so Nagin did have a back up plan for the city's poor folk... of course mistakes happen and no one knew that it would take 3 or 4 days to get basic supplies..

[Yonivore]

so Nagin did have a back up plan for the city's poor folk... of course mistakes happen and no one knew that it would take 3 or 4 days to get basic supplies..
Bottom line. Nagin and Blanco played politics while the citizens of New Orleans drifted with inadequate leadership.

[boutons_]

2 years later, Yoni continues the smoke&mirrors of trashing the mayor + governor while ignoring, hiding the disastrously incompetent and indefensible FEMA.

Exactly the same tactic as the Repugs blaming 9/11 on Clinton, while ignoring the total deafness of the dubya and dickhead to 9/11 warnings and Al Qaida, sniffed at as a "Clinton thing".

Doesn't work with intelligent people. Part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, Yoni's playing to the dumbfuck red-state sheeple and rabble.

you're doing a heckuva job, yoni

[JoeChalupa]

Yoni cracks me up.

[Yonivore]

Yoni cracks me up.
Happy to amuse.

[SRJ]

Decades of Louisiana politicians diverting money, intended for upgrading the levee system, into pork projects is probably at the top of the heap.

FTW. Blaming the ACoE while ignoring this is pretty damned funny.

[Wild Cobra]

Wow... I'm gone a few days, and this thread gets started and huge.

It's simple. The first responders and the local governments are competent in California, and a joke in Louisiana.

You lefties can blame president Bush all you want for the failures of Nagen and Blanco. You guys are so clear. So clear, you cannot see your hatred yourself.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Wow... I'm gone a few days, and this thread gets started and huge.

It's simple. The first responders and the local governments are competent in California, and a joke in Louisiana.

You lefties can blame president Bush all you want for the failures of Nagen and Blanco. You guys are so clear. So clear, you cannot see your hatred yourself.


It has nothing to do with the rest of the country learning from the mistakes of New Orleans... no couldn't be. Couldn't be that cities started to review their disaster planning and refining it.. No, no couldn't be. No one learns from others mistakes... doesn't happen. I mean after 9/11 not one city decided to organize and plan for a major terrorist attack... Your wrong again.

[xrayzebra]

No problem. Harry, the realtor, Reid has it all figured out.
Global warming caused it all. And Boxer has announced if they
had just had the troops from California back out of Iraq along
with their equipment everything would be okay.

How many troops do you have to throw into a fire to put it out.
I really thought you had to be able to put water or retardant on
it to put it out. But hell, a U.S. Senator knows best. Throw
those troops on the fire. Or we could just follow old Harry's
lead in Iraq. Obviously the fire is winning so re-deploy all those
firefighters and get them out of harms way. Even if they beat
it down this time, it will just blow up again. Obviously we are
losing the fight on the fire in California.

Me personally, I have to congratulate those folks in San Diego.
They took their own safety seriously and did something about
it and are taking care of each other. Just hope they get their
homes back in record time and get their elected officials on
the ball so they can keep the brush and dead wood out of
the burned areas.

[Yonivore]

It has nothing to do with the rest of the country learning from the mistakes of New Orleans... no couldn't be. Couldn't be that cities started to review their disaster planning and refining it.. No, no couldn't be. No one learns from others mistakes... doesn't happen. I mean after 9/11 not one city decided to organize and plan for a major terrorist attack... Your wrong again.
Well, let's review.

New Orleans, Louisiana is a coastal city, built below sea level, dependent upon a levee system to keep them from drowning. No reason to develop a plan BEFORE a fucking hurricane struck.

California, as the old joke goes (and I do mean old -- going back decades to before the global cooling era of science even), has four seasons; earthquake, fire, flood, and drought.

I suspect California's response had more to do with their previous experience with fires than with Louisiana's failure to properly formulate or execute their own disaster plan.

[Yonivore]

How many troops do you have to throw into a fire to put it out.
Ouch!

Oh, and Dingy immediately retracted his assinine statement when asked by a reporter if he really meant it.

Drudge is running a banner now that one of the bigger fires is an arson.

Terrorism?

[Wild Cobra]

Drudge is running a banner now that one of the bigger fires is an arson.

Terrorism?
I heard on the news today a report that a witness saw a motorcyclist making a getaway from a fire. I think that's the source of the arson theory. Coincidence or not? As for terrorism, I hear there was I think a 1993(?) account as a plan for such an attack. That too doesn't make it so. I think if it was terrorist related, they would have already taken responsibility.

Besides, it cannot be arson. That would prove Harry Reid wrong...


“One reason why we have the fires in California is global warming,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told reporters Tuesday, stressing the need to pass the Democrats’ comprehensive energy package.

Wildfires get personal for lawmakers (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/wildfires-get-personal-for-lawmakers-2007-10-24.html)

[George Gervin's Afro]

[QUOTE=Yonivore]Well, let's review.

New Orleans, Louisiana is a coastal city, built below sea level, dependent upon a levee system to keep them from drowning. No reason to develop a plan BEFORE a fucking hurricane struck.

California, as the old joke goes (and I do mean old -- going back decades to before the global cooling era of science even), has four seasons; earthquake, fire, flood, and drought.

I suspect California's response had more to do with their previous experience with fires than with Louisiana's failure to properly formulate or execute their own disaster plan.[/QUOTE


or katrina could have been a wake up call for the country..

[Nbadan]

It's sick that a arsonist would want more fires....

A suspected arsonist was shot and killed by San Bernardino police last night, authorities said.


The man was spotted in a remote, brushy area behind Cal State San Bernardino, said Lt. Scott Patterson of the San Bernardino Police Department.

University police called in San Bernardino officers. When officers approached the suspect, he jumped in a car and fled, Patterson said. The man drove north on Waterman Avenue, then up a dirt fire road into the foothills, he said. When officers tried to stop him, he rammed their vehicles with his car, Patterson said.

"The officers fired their weapons in self-defense, and the suspect was struck and died as a result of his injuries," Patterson said.

LA Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/breakingnews/2007/10/a-suspected-ars.html)

[Holt's Cat]

Well, let's review.

New Orleans, Louisiana is a coastal city, built below sea level, dependent upon a levee system to keep them from drowning. No reason to develop a plan BEFORE a fucking hurricane struck.

California, as the old joke goes (and I do mean old -- going back decades to before the global cooling era of science even), has four seasons; earthquake, fire, flood, and drought.

I suspect California's response had more to do with their previous experience with fires than with Louisiana's failure to properly formulate or execute their own disaster plan.


New Orleans, LA also has a per capita income level roughly half that of San Diego, CA. I'm guessing they had more resources at their disposal and are not as dependent on the Feds as the Big Easy.

[ChumpDumper]

It's easier to drive a Tahoe to Qualcomm than to walk to Baton Rouge.

Have their power, water and supplies and exits from the building been cut off yet?

[Nbadan]

They showed video of some of the Qualcomm 'victims' getting massages....are you kidding me?!?

[Yonivore]

New Orleans, LA also has a per capita income level roughly half that of San Diego, CA. I'm guessing they had more resources at their disposal and are not as dependent on the Feds as the Big Easy.
Actually, it's about $5,000.00 less per year.

And, you're right, dependency on the feds is a huge part of the problem.

[Wild Cobra]

Actually, it's about $5,000.00 less per year.

And, you're right, dependency on the feds is a huge part of the problem.
Yep, when you have a population waiting for someone to change your diapers, and it doesn't happen...

All shit breaks loose!

[exstatic]

It's easier to drive a Tahoe to Qualcomm than to walk to Baton Rouge.

Have their power, water and supplies and exits from the building been cut off yet?
Has anyone been doing gang rapes at the DoubleTree Inn? Call me when more than a handful of these people are anything but inconvenienced.

A cynical person might say that Bushco rushing about in SoCal is more about face time in a key '08 state than helping people who mostly don't need it, GOP voters from the hills to be exact.

[exstatic]

Yep, when you have a population waiting for someone to change your diapers, and it doesn't happen...

All shit breaks loose!
Like CD asked, were they supposed to walk to Baton Rouge? Those people didn't have fucking cars, WC.

[101A]

...Or we could just follow old Harry's
lead in Iraq. Obviously the fire is winning so re-deploy all those
firefighters and get them out of harms way. Even if they beat
it down this time, it will just blow up again. Obviously we are
losing the fight on the fire in California....
I liked that.

[Wild Cobra]

Like CD asked, were they supposed to walk to Baton Rouge? Those people didn't have fucking cars, WC.
Everything went wrong. They were told there would be no supplies at the Superdome, to bring their own food and water. They relied on the government and Nagen and Blanco failed them. There was all kinds of transportation that could have been utilized by the city. Remember the flooded busses? there is still some states rights, and Bush could not bring in aide until Blanco formally asked for it.

All the blame lies within New Orleans and Louisiana, except maybe some silly rules that can be relaxed. I don't think they ever allowed the trailers in the flood zones. FEMA could change those rules.

If I seem uncaring about the situation, it’s just that I am sick and tires of the blame being shifted from where it belongs.

The people are responsible for themselves first.

What they cannot manage is the responsibility of the city, then county, then state, and finally the federal government. When it came to the evacuation of the people, the first responders failed miserably.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Everything went wrong. They were told there would be no supplies at the Superdome, to bring their own food and water. They relied on the government and Nagen and Blanco failed them. There was all kinds of transportation that could have been utilized by the city. Remember the flooded busses? there is still some states rights, and Bush could not bring in aide until Blanco formally asked for it.

All the blame lies within New Orleans and Louisiana, except maybe some silly rules that can be relaxed. I don't think they ever allowed the trailers in the flood zones. FEMA could change those rules.

If I seem uncaring about the situation, it’s just that I am sick and tires of the blame being shifted from where it belongs.

The people are responsible for themselves first.

What they cannot manage is the responsibility of the city, then county, then state, and finally the federal government. When it came to the evacuation of the people, the first responders failed miserably.


All of the blame huh? You know something for the first 4 or 5 yrs all I heard from the bushbots is what a fine leader bush was. ' he never wavers', 'means what he says', 'taking the fight to the terrorists', 'doesn't care about polls'... after all hell broke loose what did bush do according to the apologists in this thread? He pleaded blanco to help... he didn't want to step on louisiana's toes.... , 'his hands were tied'.. Where I come from a real leader steps up front and says ' I am in control and this is how it's going to get done' I would have had a lot more respect for bush today if he would have taken the situation over. I will save the apologists the post because We are going to hear tha it was state vs fed issue, bush would have been blasted for his arrogance.. yada... yada..

yet the same people claim that bush doesn't care what people think.... he does what he thinks is right for the country and it's protection....he does what's best for our country even if it isn't polpular..

that is why bush is at fault as much as the local and state governements.. bush isn't a leader..

[JoeChalupa]

The lessons from Katrina have helped us all. CA deals with fires every damn year and they are very good at it and the Governator stepped up to the plate and got the job done. But Katrina and the CA fires are totally different and the situations different so to compare the two really doesn't mean much other than pushing ones own personal political agenda.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The lessons from Katrina have helped us all. CA deals with fires every damn year and they are very good at it and the Governator stepped up to the plate and got the job done. But Katrina and the CA fires are totally different and the situations different so to compare the two really doesn't mean much other than pushing ones own personal political agenda.


it absurd to deny that katrina woke the country up. this event made everyone else understandthat they needed plans, back up power, supplies for your police force, alternate communication systems for your agencies. Once the levees broke the feds needed to intervene... at that point with no electricity, no communications, no long term supplies, ... no one ever thought an entire city in this country would be devastated like new orleans was..


yet we actually have people 2 yrs after the fact claim it's a lib vs conservative issue..

[JoeChalupa]

it absurd to deny that katrina woke the country up. this event made everyone else understandthat they needed plans, back up power, supplies for your police force, alternate communication systems for your agencies. Once the levees broke the feds needed to intervene... at that point with no electricity, no communications, no long term supplies, ... no one ever thought an entire city in this country would be devastated like new orleans was..


yet we actually have people 2 yrs after the fact claim it's a lib vs conservative issue..

I concur and the "right" is always accusing the "left" of playing politics and that is exactly what Yonivore and many others are doing. Are we not ALL human..do we not all bleed?...do we not all suffer?

[Wild Cobra]

it absurd to deny that katrina woke the country up.
What good is that when people forget Galvestan?

Galveston Hurricane of 1900 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galveston_Hurricane_of_1900)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/47/Galveston_-_1900_wreckage.jpg/800px-Galveston_-_1900_wreckage.jpg


The most dramatic effort to protect the city was its raising. Dredged sand was used to raise the city of Galveston by as much as 17 feet (5.2 m) above its previous elevation. Over 2,100 buildings were raised in the process, including the 3,000-ton St. Patrick’s Church. The seawall and raising of the island were jointly named a National Historical Civil Engineering Landmark by the American Society of Civil Engineers in 2001.

In 1915, a storm similar in strength and track to the 1900 hurricane struck Galveston. The 1915 storm brought a 12-foot (4 m) storm surge which tested the new seawall. Although 275 people lost their lives in the 1915 storm, this was a great reduction from the thousands that died in 1900.

The people of New Orleans didn't learn from past disasters, why should Katrina be any different? The people of Galvestan did learn, and actually did something about it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

you are just a different kind of person wc..

[JoeChalupa]

I don't blame the people of New Orleans for what mother nature brings. But the fact is that nobody, and I mean nobody, was prepared for what happened and the blame game does nothing, and I mean nothing, to help.

[Hook Dem]

I don't blame the people of New Orleans for what mother nature brings. But the fact is that nobody, and I mean nobody, was prepared for what happened and the blame game does nothing, and I mean nothing, to help.
Try telling that to the liberals!

[JoeChalupa]

Try telling that to the liberals!

Try telling that to the conservatives.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't blame the people of New Orleans for what mother nature brings. But the fact is that nobody, and I mean nobody, was prepared for what happened and the blame game does nothing, and I mean nothing, to help.
Agreed, that's why I brought up the Galveston incident. They were at and below sea level, like New Orleans. Rather than let a disaster happen again, they filled the land, and built above sea level. New Orleans should have done the same thing rather than rely only on levies. It was always a disaster waiting to happen, and it will happen again sometime in the future. New Orleans has flooded before, yet they just don't get it.

Why cannot the people of Louisiana today be as smart as the people of 1900 Texas?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Agreed, that's why I brought up the Galveston incident. They were at and below sea level, like New Orleans. Rather than let a disaster happen again, they filled the land, and built above sea level. New Orleans should have done the same thing rather than rely only on levies. It was always a disaster waiting to happen, and it will happen again sometime in the future. New Orleans has flooded before, yet they just don't get it.

Why cannot the people of Louisiana today be as smart as the people of 1900 Texas?


so what does this have to do with the people who were stranded for 3 or 4 days without food or water?

[Wild Cobra]

so what does this have to do with the people who were stranded for 3 or 4 days without food or water?
I explained that. They were told that food and water would not be provided, to bring their own. They were told that by Ray Nagen's people.

Again, it is a failure of the first responders.

[JoeChalupa]

Even the Governator could not have stopped the disaster of Katrina.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I explained that. They were told that food and water would not be provided, to bring their own. They were told that by Ray Nagen's people.

Again, it is a failure of the first responders.


was this before or after it flooded? all of this happened after the flood. the plan was to allow people to go back home once the storm passed. the levees broke and we have americans stranded and dying on freeways for 3 days.. so it seems as though they planned for the storm but not the aftermath.. so I guess your implying that they should have had a plan for the city possibly being flooded, the city losing power and the ability to communicate, in-accessible roads and highways. they then should have had helicopters ready and massive food staging areas just in case the city flooded? you place direct blame on them but once the city lost communication and power it became a federal issue..

[Yonivore]

so what does this have to do with the people who were stranded for 3 or 4 days without food or water?
It's piss poor planning to use a facility as a shelter that could be made inaccessible by flood waters.

It's even worse planning to know this (New Orleans is below sea level and the Superdome is in New Orleans) and not try and mitigate the possibility you may be sending people to a shelter that will be inaccessible for 3 or 4 days.

[xrayzebra]

Even the Governator could not have stopped the disaster of Katrina.

I think you are more than likely right. If I remember
correctly the highway/roadway system leading into
N.O. was in such bad shape that they had a hard time
getting trucks in with supplies. N.O. is not in an ideal
situation regarding roads. I-10 crosses water to the
East and if I remember correctly it was really messed up
and the Roadway across the lake was almost totally
destroyed.

[Yonivore]

Even the Governator could not have stopped the disaster of Katrina.
I bet the Governator wouldn't have put people in the Superdome without haute cuisine and free massages.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

The Governator would have just told everyone to get in the choppah!!!

[Holt's Cat]

It's piss poor planning to use a facility as a shelter that could be made inaccessible by flood waters.

It's even worse planning to know this (New Orleans is below sea level and the Superdome is in New Orleans) and not try and mitigate the possibility you may be sending people to a shelter that will be inaccessible for 3 or 4 days.


Almost the entire city was inaccessible. :wtf

One could figure out that the cause of the disaster lay in a negligent Army Corps of Engineers as well as the corrupt Louisiana state Levee Boards, but it's hard to put a black or purely Democrat face on those two, apparently.

[Holt's Cat]

Bush doesn't give a shit about California as it relates to the GOP. That ship sailed 20 years ago.

However you would like to measure it, San Diego is a tad bit more affluent than New Orleans. It's a bit easier to manage a crisis when most have access to their own personal vehicle and don't have to wade through a cesspool of filthy water several feet deep.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Neither does Glen Beck.

"A handful of people who hate America
...are losing their homes in a forest fire today."
-- Glenn Beck

[ChumpDumper]

Agreed, that's why I brought up the Galveston incident. They were at and below sea level, like New Orleans. Rather than let a disaster happen again, they filled the land, and built above sea level. New Orleans should have done the same thing rather than rely only on levies. It was always a disaster waiting to happen, and it will happen again sometime in the future. New Orleans has flooded before, yet they just don't get it.

Why cannot the people of Louisiana today be as smart as the people of 1900 Texas?That's the dumbest argument ever. New Orleans is constantly sinking because of the flood control and navigations system built by the federal government. How is any city supposed to infill its entire land area to make up for sinking 1/4 inch to a full inch every year when the root cause is never addressed?

Using that logic, you are saying Californians should never build on a hill or in the woods -- or really anywhere considering earthquakes. Or Texans should never build any house on a 100-year river flood plain. Why don't they ever learn?

[Wild Cobra]

That's the dumbest argument ever. New Orleans is constantly sinking because of the flood control and navigations system built by the federal government.

To my knowledge, it is sinking primarily because it is reclaimed swamp land in those areas. Am I wrong? As the water slowly leaves the area, the earth does sink in those areas. At some point, the sinking will stop.



How is any city supposed to infill its entire land area to make up for sinking 1/4 inch to a full inch every year when the root cause is never addressed?

Root caue = below sea level! That is my point, it is never addressed in New Orleans, but was in Gaveston!



Using that logic, you are saying Californians should never build on a hill or in the woods -- or really anywhere considering earthquakes. Or Texans should never build any house on a 100-year river flood plain. Why don't they ever learn?

Not at all. Be aware of your surroundings and build appropriately.

Why are you always wrong when you assume my logic?

Nobody should build in a known flood plain. Houses can be anchored to the sides of cliffs and made earthquake resistant. Floods will happen in a flood plain, and without some serious spending like they do in the Netherlands, flood control is impossible when a big one comes. Even with as much experience they have over the years, they have serious problems. They have so much more land below sea level than New Orleans. New Orleans could be filled with soil.

Netherlands; Floods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands):


In years past, the Dutch coastline has changed considerably as a result of human intervention and natural disasters. Most notable in terms of land loss are the 1134 storm, which created the archipelago of Zeeland in the south west, and the 1287 storm, which killed 50,000 people and created the Zuiderzee (now dammed in and renamed the IJsselmeer — see below) in the northwest, giving Amsterdam direct access to the sea. The St. Elizabeth flood of 1421 and the mismanagement in its aftermath destroyed a newly reclaimed polder, replacing it with the 72 square kilometres (28 sq mi) Biesbosch tidal floodplains in the south-centre. The most recent parts of Zeeland were flooded during the North Sea Flood of 1953 and 1,836 people were killed, after which the Delta Plan was executed.

[Yonivore]

If they're going to rebuild New Orleans and hope this never happens again, they'd better invest in this type of construction:

http://www.22dollars.com/images/house_on_stilts.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

If they're going to rebuild New Orleans and hope this never happens again, they'd better invest in this type of construction:

http://www.22dollars.com/images/house_on_stilts.jpg
That's one way to do it.

[ChumpDumper]

To my knowledge, it is sinking primarily because it is reclaimed swamp land in those areas. Am I wrong? As the water slowly leaves the area, the earth does sink in those areas. At some point, the sinking will stop.Wrong. The natural sedimentation process has been stopped by fllood and navigation channeling.



Root caue = below sea level!NOLA didn't used to be below sea level, and Galveston was never below sea level.
That is my point, it is never addressed in New Orleans, but was in Galveston!They had to build one wall in Galveston and raised 2000 buildings, and they only had to do it once. If the cause of the sinking isn't addressed, any raising effort is for naught.



Not at all. Be aware of your surroundings and build appropriately.

Why are you always wrong when you assume my logic?I'm completely correct. You simply never think your half-baked ideas through.

[Wild Cobra]

Wrong. The natural sedimentation process has been stopped by fllood and navigation channeling.

The subsidence is continuing, and the claimed marshes are part of the problem. Some accounts have the issue of the lithosphere moving as not occuring for several thousand years. Different scientists disagree. The marsh land settling is not in disagreement.



NOLA didn't used to be below sea level, and Galveston was never below sea level.They had to build one wall in Galveston and raised 2000 buildings, and they only had to do it once. If the cause of the sinking isn't addressed, any raising effort is for naught.

My bad there. What they did was build Galvastan above flood levels. As for New Orleans, I suggest you look at an old map and see just how much is recovered from the marshes.



I'm completely correct. You simply never think your half-baked ideas through.

No you aren't.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Karte_New_Orleans_MKL1888.png

[ChumpDumper]

So you're saying we should go back in time and not build anything in the Mississippi floodplain. It's not all poor peoples houses you know.

[Hook Dem]

What good does it do to argue about any of this? Republicans are going to be Republicans and Democrats are going to be Democrats. Vote your concience and let it go at that!!!!!

[ChumpDumper]

What good does it do to argue about any of this? Republicans are going to be Republicans and Democrats are going to be Democrats. Vote your concience and let it go at that!!!!!It's not a partisan issue and it was stupid to compare the two situations in the first place.

[Wild Cobra]

So you're saying we should go back in time and not build anything in the Mississippi floodplain. It's not all poor peoples houses you know.
What is your problem? Glasses too dark? I specifically made a statement implying that people need to know what they are getting into:



Not at all. Be aware of your surroundings and build appropriately. Take responsibility if something happens.

Is that to silly of a concept? It isn't a stretch at all to use such a logic as to where you choose to live, and know what the ramifications are.

People need to be responsible for their own actions., Not cry about it being someone else’s fault.

Why do you always have to pick something to argue about that I already explained?

Are you in Troll Mode again?

[Hook Dem]

It's not a partisan issue and it was stupid to compare the two situations in the first place.
Coulda fooled me!

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Coulda fooled me!

Just look at the idiot who started this thread.

[ChumpDumper]

What is your problem? Glasses too dark? I specifically made a statement implying that people need to know what they are getting into:Right. Several generations after the fact.




Is that to silly of a concept? It isn't a stretch at all to use such a logic as to where you choose to live, and know what the ramifications are.

People need to be responsible for their own actions., Not cry about it being someone else’s fault.Yes, people are responsible for being born into New Orleans and not having cars to leave. You are also saying there should be no disaster relief ever for anybody -- they knew that fire/tornado/flood/hurricane/earthquake/drought might happen.


Why do you always have to pick something to argue about that I already explained?

Are you in Troll Mode again?It's not my fault you can't apply your tirade views to other situations.

[Wild Cobra]

It's not a partisan issue and it was stupid to compare the two situations in the first place.
You're right, it's not a partisan issue. It's about the quality of leadership at the first responder levels. The democrats blamed president Bush and FEMA, making it a partisan issue in Louisiana.

Lets' see. I haven't really followed much of this thread, but would I be correct to say that the city and county leaders in California did what they could to make Qualcom a place to stay? What did the leaders of New Orleans do? Nothing!

Now hindsight is 20/20, but didn't they know people would go there and not be responsible for bringing their own supplies? They could have gone to supermarkets and other stores and say we want these supplies, list in hand. We will pick them up and pay for them. The list could have been canned foods, fruits, vegetables, pots, pans, stoves, etc.

Even if that wasn't possible for some legal reason, the fact is, Mayor Nagan dropped the ball. So did the governor for not requesting federal help in a timely manner.

Sure, money has something to do with how well the individuals could help themselves, but in the face of imminent danger... What did Nagan do that was worth while?

Looks like most everything in California went right at the leadership levels.

[Nbadan]

Now hindsight is 20/20, but didn't they know people would go there and not be responsible for bringing their own supplies? They could have gone to supermarkets and other stores and say we want these supplies, list in hand. We will pick them up and pay for them. The list could have been canned foods, fruits, vegetables, pots, pans, stoves, etc.

:lol

The white folks took all the food and the gas....you remember the whole area was out of gas for weeks?

[Nbadan]

You're right, it's not a partisan issue. It's about the quality of leadership at the first responder levels. The democrats blamed president Bush and FEMA, making it a partisan issue in Louisiana.

Dubya wanted the feds to come in, but only on the precondition that Blanco took the full hit for FEMA's inability to be first-responders to this crisis....of course she wasn't gonna do that....

[Wild Cobra]

:lol

The white folks took all the food and the gas....you remember the whole area was out of gas for weeks?
Maybe the gas was gone, but not all the food. All I did was point out a simple plan that could have been done.

So tell me. What did Nagan do besides say leave?

You shouldn't bring the race thing into this. Look at the racial makeup of New Orleans first. According to the 2000 census, only 28.1% was white, 67.3% black. About a 12 to 5 ratio. The media loves telling us how much the blacks suffered, but whites were a minority, especially in the flood zones.

I wonder what the black/white ratio was in the flood areas? I heard it was more like 11 to 1, but I don't know. Anyone know for sure?

[Wild Cobra]

Dubya wanted the feds to come in, but only on the precondition that Blanco took the full hit for FEMA's inability to be first-responders to this crisis....of course she wasn't gonna do that....
Not true. He couldn't let them in by law until she authorized them to go in. Now FEMA did have some problems, but they were not *the* problem.

[Nbadan]

Maybe the gas was gone, but not all the food. All I did was point out a simple plan that could have been done.

So tell me. What did Nagan do besides say leave?

You shouldn't bring the race thing into this. Look at the racial makeup of New Orleans first. According to the 2000 census, only 28.1% was white, 67.3% black. About a 12 to 5 ratio. The media loves telling us how much the blacks suffered, but whites were a minority, especially in the flood zones.

I wonder what the black/white ratio was in the flood areas? I heard it was more like 11 to 1, but I don't know. Anyone know for sure?

What could Nagan do....it's not like he could go round up some school buses and say, 'let's ride'.....that would have required thousands of gallons of gas..and that kinda coordination should have come at the Governors office and from FEMA......FEMA's 'emergency plan' all along for this type of disaster was to stick people in the Superdome....I mean, those that couldn't leave on their own.....the real travesty is that the people who could leave loaded up cars with their possessions and left their fellow New Orleaners behind....now that's the real story behind this tragedy....

[Nbadan]

Not true. He couldn't let them in by law until she authorized them to go in. Now FEMA did have some problems, but they were not *the* problem.

Posse whateva....the Bush lawyers took care of that non-obstacle.....yeah sure, Blanco didn't want the FEDS coming in cause Dubya is a Republican....believe what you want....but I'm telling you that Dubya wanted to come riding in with the Army a few days later to save the day, just like it happened...now who's playing politics with tragedy?

[MannyIsGod]

Seriously? A Catagory Five Hurricane being compared to brush fires in the hills? Seriously?

[Yonivore]

Seriously? A Catagory Five Hurricane being compared to brush fires in the hills? Seriously?
It was a category 3 when it made landfall.

And, they are densely populated hills.

[MannyIsGod]

It was a category 3 when it made landfall.

And, they are densely populated hills.LOL @ you trying to compare a catagory 3 hurricane over a stadium (with cat 5 storm surge all around it) and fires in the hills away from a stadium.

[Yonivore]

LOL @ you trying to compare a catagory 3 hurricane over a stadium (with cat 5 storm surge all around it) and fires in the hills away from a stadium.
:lmao at you for not knowing the difference between a prepared population and an unprepared population.

[MannyIsGod]

This is why its impossible to debate with you. You're taking 2 entirely different scenarios and trying to use them as a comparison against each other. Whether or not either city was prepared is can't even be discussed because the basis for your argument is so poor. There are points you can make about the lack of preparation in New Orleans without pointing to this current situation that are completely valid. Thats not the point.

If you think you can use the San Diego situation as a comparison to the New Orleans situation then you either have no understanding of hurricanes (especially those of catagory 3 and above) or you're mildly retarded.

I suspect its a little of both in your case, Yoni. Have a nice day!

[Wild Cobra]

Come on Yoni, You know Manny is just one of those who should be ignored when he has nothing of value to say, which is most the time.

[xrayzebra]

This is why its impossible to debate with you. You're taking 2 entirely different scenarios and trying to use them as a comparison against each other. Whether or not either city was prepared is can't even be discussed because the basis for your argument is so poor. There are points you can make about the lack of preparation in New Orleans without pointing to this current situation that are completely valid. Thats not the point.

If you think you can use the San Diego situation as a comparison to the New Orleans situation then you either have no understanding of hurricanes (especially those of catagory 3 and above) or you're mildly retarded.

I suspect its a little of both in your case, Yoni. Have a nice day!

Hey Manny, if you think your argument is so great, then
how come the dimms couldn't wait to trot out the
N.O. situation and compare it to San Diego along with
throwing in a little Iraq in the old stew pot. How come?

The news media was trying to get Arnold to bitch about
something and he refused to. Even though his
Lt. Governor was trashing Bush from the git go. Along
with Boxer and a few other notables.

[Wild Cobra]

Anyone hear this clip with the president on the California fires:

10/25 Speech (http://www.whitehouse.gov//news/releases/2007/10/20071025-7.wm.v.html)

I'm sure he has already caught hell over this statement, but it is so dead on:


It makes a significant difference when you have -ah- somebody in the statehouse who's willing to take the lead.

Could that be a hit on Blanco at the same time it's a praise for Schwarzenegger? Could it be intentional?

Eather way... like I said, it's dead on...

It starts about 40 seconds in.

President Bush Discusses California Wildfires (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071025-7.html); part of official transcript:


I appreciate the leadership of Governor Schwarzenegger. I said earlier when we were at the neighborhood, there's no hill he's not willing to charge, no problem he's not willing to solve. And we've got a problem out here, and I appreciate his leadership. It makes a significant difference when you have somebody in the statehouse willing to take the lead. I've come to make sure that the federal government provides the help for people here at the local level.

[clambake]

Anyone hear this clip with the president on the California fires:

10/25 Speech (http://www.whitehouse.gov//news/releases/2007/10/20071025-7.wm.v.html)

I'm sure he has already caught hell over this statement, but it is so dead on:



Could that be a hit on Blanco at the same time it's a praise for Schwarzenegger? Could it be intentional?

Eather way... like I said, it's dead on...

It starts about 40 seconds in.

President Bush Discusses California Wildfires (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071025-7.html); part of official transcript:

i like the point you're making, in this situation. Cali is no rookie to these circumstances. but it's no surprise that bush would show up to take advantage of a situation where he didn't screw the pooch. you completely agree with him deflecting any deserved criticism. nice photo op.

[Walter Craparita]

It's simple. In Cali you have people who are successful (or at least rely on credit), have nice shit, and aren't stuck in a bowl of water

In LA you have many poor people, who rely on the government, many have no class, no appreciation, etc etc.

People getting massages vs. people shitting on the walls. Government's fault no doubt!

All this partisan crap, haha.

[Yonivore]

This is why its impossible to debate with you. You're taking 2 entirely different scenarios and trying to use them as a comparison against each other. Whether or not either city was prepared is can't even be discussed because the basis for your argument is so poor. There are points you can make about the lack of preparation in New Orleans without pointing to this current situation that are completely valid. Thats not the point.

If you think you can use the San Diego situation as a comparison to the New Orleans situation then you either have no understanding of hurricanes (especially those of catagory 3 and above) or you're mildly retarded.

I suspect its a little of both in your case, Yoni. Have a nice day!
I lived in Corpus Christi when Hurricane Celia (A Cat 4 or 5, I don't recall) destroyed the city. Our family lost everything but our lives. Not near the whining and belly-aching and finger-pointing and "when's the government gonna help my poor ass" that has gone on in New Orleans.

There is a fundamental difference between the population of New Orleans and the population of San Diego -- and their respective leaders.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Anyone hear this clip with the president on the California fires:

10/25 Speech (http://www.whitehouse.gov//news/releases/2007/10/20071025-7.wm.v.html)

I'm sure he has already caught hell over this statement, but it is so dead on:



Could that be a hit on Blanco at the same time it's a praise for Schwarzenegger? Could it be intentional?

Eather way... like I said, it's dead on...

It starts about 40 seconds in.

President Bush Discusses California Wildfires (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071025-7.html); part of official transcript:


this just shows bush leadership qualities. rather than show up and play president of the united states he takes a classless shot. he's a classless piece of shit.

[Wild Cobra]

this just shows bush leadership qualities. rather than show up and play president of the united states he takes a classless shot. he's a classless piece of shit.
Actually, it was very classy, the way he praised Arnold at the same time putting Blanco in her place. At least for someone who is a poor orator.

[MannyIsGod]

I lived in Corpus Christi when Hurricane Celia (A Cat 4 or 5, I don't recall) destroyed the city. Our family lost everything but our lives. Not near the whining and belly-aching and finger-pointing and "when's the government gonna help my poor ass" that has gone on in New Orleans.

There is a fundamental difference between the population of New Orleans and the population of San Diego -- and their respective leaders.Oh there are TONS of fundemenal differences beween he two populations. You can start with median income levels, people living under he povery lines, and education levels.

But you had no interests in starting a debae on he social issues involved in making New Orleans what it was. Instead you took two insanely different situations and tried to use them to porray your hopeless leader in a much beer light. You were spinning away, Yoni.

Then again, what more have we ever expected from you? FWDT dismantled you much earlier in this thread because we're all used to your games.

[Yonivore]

Oh there are TONS of fundemenal differences beween he two populations. You can start with median income levels, people living under he povery lines, and education levels.
Which should have absolutely no affect on a person's ability to exercise good judgement and personal responsibility.


But you had no interests in starting a debae on he social issues involved in making New Orleans what it was. Instead you took two insanely different situations and tried to use them to porray your hopeless leader in a much beer light. You were spinning away, Yoni.
Only in your nanny-state universe.


Then again, what more have we ever expected from you? FWDT dismantled you much earlier in this thread because we're all used to your games.
Cool for you...glad you're satisfied with the result.

[ChumpDumper]

Why are we comparing apples with Tahoes?

[MannyIsGod]

Which should have absolutely no affect on a person's ability to exercise good judgement and personal responsibility.
LOL

Right. Yoni Sociology 101 eh? Too bad you'd be hard pressed to find many socioligists that agree with you. WTF do they know anyway?

[Yonivore]

LOL

Right. Yoni Sociology 101 eh? Too bad you'd be hard pressed to find many socioligists that agree with you. WTF do they know anyway?
Apparently, not a gardamn thing. I think its fucking sociologists, psychiatrists, and therapists that have gotten this country so fucked up to begin with.

Well, them, lawyers, and Democrats.

[Nbadan]

So much for terra...


SANTA CLARITA, Calif. - A boy playing with matches started a fire in north Los Angeles County that consumed more than 38,000 acres and destroyed 21 homes last week, authorities said Tuesday.

The boy, whose name and age were not released, was interviewed a day after the Buckweed Fire was sparked Oct. 21, said sheriff's Sgt. Diane Hecht.

"He admitted to playing with matches and accidentally starting the fire," said Hecht said in a statement.

[ChumpDumper]

That kid's a sleeper agent just like Obama!

[George Gervin's Afro]

Apparently, not a gardamn thing. I think its fucking sociologists, psychiatrists, and therapists that have gotten this country so fucked up to begin with.

Well, them, lawyers, and Democrats.


:lol