Have Ginobili and Parker played their way off the All-Star team?

[timvp]

A month ago, I thought both Ginobili and Parker had very good chances of make the All-Star team. Now I'm not sure either one will make it.

Personally, I think the Spurs' recent championship success should allow both of them to make it. If I had to pick one, I'd say Ginobili because he's played very well this year and has only one All-Star game on his resume, compared to Parker's two.

However, now if you look at stats for Ginobili and Parker, a voting coach could easily be underwhelmed with what they see. While Ginobili and Parker are both averaging career-highs in points and assists per game, the rest of their numbers aren't too spectacular.

Ginobili's field goal percentage field goal percentage is the lowest it's been in four seasons. His turnovers are higher than ever and his rebounding rate is a bit down from last season. While his points are up, so are his minutes and shot attempts.

Parker is much in the same boat. Like Ginobili, his points and assists are up. However, his field goal percentage is the lowest it's been in three years. His three-point percentage and his free throw percentage are also both down.

The problem for both players is they have struggled for the past month. Their shooting numbers are way down from the marks they posted earlier in the season. Both players can point to injuries as main reasons why they've struggled, but I don't know if that's enough garner a vote.

The West is packed full of guards who are having great seasons. With Kobe and TMac likely starting, Chris Paul, Allen Iverson, Deron Williams, Baron Davis and Brandon Roy are all having great seasons. With Ginobili and Parker cooling off of late, in addition to the Spurs also struggling as of late, it's no longer likely that they will both make it. In fact, it's not guaranteed that even one of the two will make it.

Have Ginobili and Parker played their way off the All-Star team? Or will coaches see past the stats and reward one of the two (or both) with All-Star berths?

[ploto]

Parker will never make it- too many good PG's who are making names for themselves right now- plus Nash.

[ChumpDumper]

I hope none of them make it. Including Duncan.

[2centsworth]

one or both of them will get in as a show of respect.

[FromWayDowntown]

I wondered the same thing last night. I don't think it's likely at this point that both Parker and Ginobili make the All-Star team. But I started to talk myself into believing that Manu has enough credibility with West coaches to make the squad.

If you start thinking about who might vote in which ways, I would think that Avery Johnson, George Karl, Jerry Sloan, Randy Whitman, and Mark Iavaroni would be likely to vote for Manu for a variety of reasons, mostly what he's done against their teams this year and in the past. I think Sloan and Karl both intensely respect Ginobili and I would think the way Manu played in carrying the Spurs past the Mavs without Duncan might sway AJ. Manu has been pretty good this season against both Minnesota and Memphis, too.

I'd think P.J. Carlesimo might be another who would be inclined to vote for Manu.

That would be 6 votes, which might be enough, given that the other guards are going to fracture the ballots.

[TMTTRIO]

I don't really care if they make it or not. I'd rather they stay home and get some rest and heal up during the AS weekend. Besides I don't know if they really care about it.

[mavs>spurs2]

At the beginning of the season Manu was looking like an all-star starter, but as of late now i'm not so sure he even makes the team

Like everyone else has already stated, the West is just too competitive

[Bruno]

Both don't deserve to be all star this year. It's not because they aren't playing well, it's because there are too much good guards in the west.

IMO, Nash will be the backup PG, Iverson the backup SG and Paul will get an utility spot.
And if there are injuries Brandon Roy and Baron Davis deserve to be picked before Ginobili or Parker.

[vander]

I hope none of them make it. Including Duncan.

+1

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

When the Spurs were dominating the West standings I would have said they'd both be in.



Now I'm leaning towards neither.




Sounds like a good V-bookie to me.

[peskypesky]

I stopped voting for both of them a few weeks ago. I've been voting for Chris Paul, Allen Iverson and Baron Davis when it comes to Western guards.

[m33p0]

we'll know after the lineup has been announced and there's a change in the way the 2 play. i wouldn't put it past manu to do something like that.

[Tippecanoe]

kobe
cp3
nash
ai
baron davis
deron williams
brandon roy

all more likely than parker or ginobili to make the AS team

ok, maybe not deron

[ShoogarBear]

When the Spurs were dominating the West standings I would have said they'd both be in.



Now I'm leaning towards neither.




Sounds like a good V-bookie to me.After reading this three times trying to find the punchline, I agree.

[greens]

It's really hard to say if both will make the All Stars, I'd say at least out of respect of the recent championship, one of them should make it. If I had to choose one, I think it should be Manu because Tony has 2 appearances and Manu has 1, just to even it out a bit...And also, due to the fact that Manu plays less minutes, plays for the bench, the unselfishness of that...etc...and his ability to come through in situations...the back to back 37 pts games vs Dallas/Utah(without TD), the fact that he started out so well....before the finger injury...

If it were up to me, I'd put Tim/Tony/Manu all in the All Stars, that's the Big Three that won championships, and I think it would be super fun for all of them to be in it together for the first time...I know it doesn't mean much, etc...but I just think it would be extra special for the three of them...VERY unlikely though...

However, as of right now, if two make it, I'd prefer Tim/Manu...nothing against Tony at all, he's one of my favorites...He's an amazing player...it's only because I think it's a shame that Manu only has one appearance...


However, the coaches might not vote for Manu, seeing as that finger splint thingy is still on his hand...they might not think he should play in the game due to his finger? Do they take stuff like that into consideration when they vote? I have no idea...I don't know too much about voting and stuff like that...

[barbacoataco]

In a different year they might be in. But now there other talents (Roy and CP3) that are in the mix, and the usual suspects (Kobe and Nash) ----- No Allstar for Ginobili and Parker in 2008. They might do better with the rest anyway.

[birdy219]

I don't believe either will get in. :depressed I vote for them everyday.
To me the locks are: amare, nash, ai, paul, dirk, roy. (next in line will be deron, boozer, baron, then tony and manu. Tony may get in if pop is forced to coach and because of his finals mvp and leading the team in points. In November, it looked as if all three were getting in. Now, I wish they all could use the time to rest and refocus including Timmay. But, I'm sorry Mr. Duncan you are a LOCK and you have to go play. :fro

[timmy21_4rings]

Parker has very long shot..Its upto Manu to keep the place..He is still in but if he plays like his previous few games, he will not be selected.

I do not think their previous all star (Parker 2 vs Manu 1) records matter for coaches.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I think Manu needs one more big game before the coaches pick, to still have a chance. I'm pretty sure his shooting percentage will start rounding out back to 45-46 later, as his hands continues to heal. He had that bad stretch of games during that first week he injured his hand, and December onward.

It sucks that we got the injury bug and started playing like ass lately where our record no longer provides Manu and Tony with some leverage, but oh well, just something extra on the side..

It would be nice to have Manu come back with Tim, since I'm sure Tony can get more AS appearances easier. And yeah, I agree with those about not ruling Manu out yet for this season.

[Manudona]

At least one writer at SI.COM puts Manu, and almost Parker too.

This is the excerpt of the article



Shooting Guard

Fans' Current Pick: Kobe Bryant

My Starter: Bryant. Nothing would be more fascinating than to see Kobe turn the Lakers' 22-11 start into a deep playoff run. Don't put it past him.

My Subs: Allen Iverson, Manu Ginobili. Amid talk that Iverson was losing a step, he's putting up 27.1 points, 6.8 assists and 2.2 steals for the 21-13 Nuggets. As for Tracy McGrady, the underperformance of his team combined with his injuries leave him behind the inspiringly ingenious Ginobili.

On the Cusp: McGrady, Brandon Roy

Point Guard

Fans' Current Pick: McGrady

My Starter: Nash. The NBA balloting doesn't distinguish point guards from shooting guards, but this is my All-Star team. I'm the decider. I almost decided to start Chris Paul in recognition of his spectacular leadership, but the reigning champ prevails in a close decision: Nash remains in MVP contention for contributing 16.9 points and 12.2 assists to the West-leading Suns.

My Subs: Paul, Baron Davis. If Paul were to average a triple-double in New Orleans, would it make a sound? Davis has been sensational, making it a photo finish between him and Tony Parker.

On the Cusp: Parker, Deron Williams

[greens]

I think Manu needs one more big game before the coaches pick, to still have a chance. I'm pretty sure his shooting percentage will start rounding out back to 45-46 later, as his hands continues to heal. He had that bad stretch of games during that first week he injured his hand, and December onward.

It sucks that we got the injury bug and started playing like ass lately where our record no longer provides Manu and Tony with some leverage, but oh well, just something extra on the side..

It would be nice to have Manu come back with Tim, since I'm sure Tony can get more AS appearances easier. And yeah, I agree with those about not ruling Manu out yet for this season.



I agree...Tony is indeed still very young, and I'm sure he'll have many more opportunities...Manu is 30 already, and I think he should get a spot this year...

Then again, it might be that Tim is the only one who'll make it...

Anyway, the bright side is that if both Manu/Tony won't make it, then they'll get the extra rest...

[itzsoweezee]

brandon roy does not deserve to be an all star. that is all. neither does deron. and baron is on the bubble with tp and manu.

[remingtonbo2001]

:hungry: V-BOOKIE

[timvp]

If you start thinking about who might vote in which ways, I would think that Avery Johnson, George Karl, Jerry Sloan, Randy Whitman, and Mark Iavaroni would be likely to vote for Manu for a variety of reasons, mostly what he's done against their teams this year and in the past. I think Sloan and Karl both intensely respect Ginobili and I would think the way Manu played in carrying the Spurs past the Mavs without Duncan might sway AJ. Manu has been pretty good this season against both Minnesota and Memphis, too. Good points.

However, Tony Parker is the player who opposing coaches gameplan to stop first when going against the Spurs. If you are a coach and you play the Spurs, the first thing you have to do is figure out how to slow down Parker. Even though it sounds ridiculous to say, Parker is a higher priority than even Duncan for most teams.

So while Parker is sometimes underrated by the media and fans at times (even Spurs fans), every coach in the league is well aware of what Parker can do. That's why if you read comments, Parker can at times be a bit overrated going by what coaches say. :lol

For example, Sam Mitchell gave Parker some pretty decent praise recently:



Raptors coach Sam Mitchell, though, thinks the fans ought to be permanently disqualified as judges of talent if Spurs point guard Tony Parker actually finishes ninth in voting among Western Conference guards.

Parker trailed Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Manu Ginobili, Jason Terry, Baron Davis and Chris Paul in the most recently released tabulation of All-Star votes.

"Don't go by the fans," Mitchell said before his Raptors made the fans look a lot smarter by limiting Parker in Toronto's undressing of the Spurs at the AT&T Center on Friday night. "Really. Come on. Ask the coaches right now: the top three (point) guards in the NBA. You might be shocked.

"Steve (Nash) would probably be No. 1, but Tony Parker would probably be two. And in some instances, when you look at the age and what he does, some coaches would probably say Tony Parker, because Tony Parker plays better defense.

"So I'm sure Steve would win, but it wouldn't be 90 percent to 10 percent. I can tell you that much. Tony's a key part of what (the Spurs) do. He gets in the paint, man. If he's the ninth guard in the NBA, then something's wrong. They've won three championships (with him), and if you look at 2007, who was the (Finals) MVP? Tony Parker.

"But he's the ninth-best guard in the West? Come on."

And Sam Mitchell is far from alone in his thoughts. Coaches have nightmares about Tony Parker. I don't think Parker is a top two point guard in the NBA, but I do think that there's a chance he might be a top two point guard that opposing coaches have to scheme against. Which naturally would make them vote for Parker even if Parker is arguably the third best player on the team.

With Duncan and Ginobili, you figure out which defenders to put on him and whether or not you want to send a double-team. With Parker, you have to alter your defense or else he'll just have a layup drill all night.

In conclusion, I think that while Ginobili deserves it more, coaches around the league spend so much time gamplanning for Parker that they might lean his way even though Ginobili is likely having the better year.

[timvp]

At least one writer at SI.COM puts Manu, and almost Parker too.

This is the excerpt of the articleThe problem is that McGrady looks like he'll get a starting guard spot due to the fan vote. You add McGrady to his equation and it looks like Ginobili could be bumped out.

Ginobili and/or Parker's best chance is if McGrady loses his starting spot to either Allen Iverson or Steve Nash. That'd open up another spot and increase their chances substantially.

[Kori Ellis]

If you are a coach and you play the Spurs, the first thing you have to do is figure out how to slow down Parker. Even though it sounds ridiculous to say, Parker is a higher priority than even Duncan for most

That's what I have been saying (this year and last) why Parker has an advantage in the coach vote. Before every game when they interview the opponent's coach, they almost always say that they key to victory is stopping/slowing down Tony Parker's penetration.

Agree with it or not, that's what most coaches say/believe.

Anyway, I don't think either one of them will be chosen. The guards in the West are excellent. They have both been banged up all year, so let them have some days off from basketball and heal up. Besides.. since we aren't going to the A-S game this year and we are going to Vegas instead, I don't care if the Spurs go either :lol

[TMTTRIO]

Plus Manu's a bench player so that may affect him and how coaches vote

[roycrikside]

The problem is that McGrady looks like he'll get a starting guard spot due to the fan vote. You add McGrady to his equation and it looks like Ginobili could be bumped out.

Ginobili and/or Parker's best chance is if McGrady loses his starting spot to either Allen Iverson or Steve Nash. That'd open up another spot and increase their chances substantially.

If McGrady has any self respect, he'd bow out and open up a spot. He's missed too many games and he doesn't deserve to play in the game. I'd honestly rather see Roy out there than T-Mac.

My twelve in the West would be Yao, Amare, Duncan, Nowitzki, Boozer, Anthony, Bryant, Nash, Paul, Iverson, Davis, and Ginobili.

[SAGambler]

I stopped voting for both of them a few weeks ago. I've been voting for Chris Paul, Allen Iverson and Baron Davis when it comes to Western guards.

Doesn't matter who you or anyone else "votes" for. It's obvious the "fan voting" will not put either one of them in.

However, I think Manu probably gets the coaches votes. Although it's a bit telling that every coach says their primary goal in playing the Spurs is to "Stop Tony Parker from driving the lane". Not stop Duncan, not stop Manu, but stop Parker. At least from a coaching standpoint, Tony is the engine that drives the Spurs.

But with that being said, I hope they both get the week off to R & R. If either is selected, I hope they see less than 5 minutes on the court.

What we don't need right now is any of the Big 3 getting injured in a meaningless AS game.

[Cherry]

Plus Manu's a bench player so that may affect him and how coaches vote

Pop told that to Manu...
...and Manu just say: "i don't care"

[1Parker1]

Neither will make it, though I think people are appreciately Ginobili a lot more this season and would give him the edge.

There are simply too many good guards in the West.

[cherylsteele]

Parker will never make it- too many good PG's who are making names for themselves right now- plus Nash.
Never??
He already has made it.
NBA All-Star - 2006, 2007

Try again.

[cherylsteele]

He may have, it is just the way Pluto posted it I guess.

If that is the case, then this year he may be right, although you never know. I would not be that disappointed if no one made the all-star team really, with all the little nagging injuries, bumps, and bruises so far this year it would be a good time to rest and try to get rid of those nagging injuries and such for the stretch run and try to repeat....which at this point is more important than the all-star game. The All-Star game is kind of a joke anyways.

[T Park]

ploto i think is a woman cheryl

if not

the rasho love just got abit stranger.

[duncan228]

ploto i think is a woman cheryl

if not

the rasho love just got abit stranger.

:lmao

My Duncan love doesn't keep people from calling me a "he."

[phxspurfan]

cute

[DazedAndConfused]

Duncan is the only Spur that is All-Star worthy this season. The WC is just too crowded, and TP and Manu have not been the best at their respective positions due to injuries.

[JamStone]

Didn't read all the comments, but here's mine ...

I don't think they played their way off the AS team because I don't think either had secured a spot at any point this season. Not because they weren't good enough or didn't play very well to start the season, but because of the deep competition at guard in the WC. Duncan appears to be a starter. If it's only one other Spur that makes it, I think it actually would be Parker, and not because he's been better than Manu but because I think it's probably pretty rare the Finals MVP doesn't make the all star team the following year ... although it did happen to Billups in the 2004-05 ASG.

[barbacoataco]

Have the people who don't think Brandon Roy should be an All-Star watched him play this season?

[FromWayDowntown]

Good points.

However, Tony Parker is the player who opposing coaches gameplan to stop first when going against the Spurs. If you are a coach and you play the Spurs, the first thing you have to do is figure out how to slow down Parker. Even though it sounds ridiculous to say, Parker is a higher priority than even Duncan for most teams.

So while Parker is sometimes underrated by the media and fans at times (even Spurs fans), every coach in the league is well aware of what Parker can do. That's why if you read comments, Parker can at times be a bit overrated going by what coaches say. :lol

For example, Sam Mitchell gave Parker some pretty decent praise recently:



And Sam Mitchell is far from alone in his thoughts. Coaches have nightmares about Tony Parker. I don't think Parker is a top two point guard in the NBA, but I do think that there's a chance he might be a top two point guard that opposing coaches have to scheme against. Which naturally would make them vote for Parker even if Parker is arguably the third best player on the team.

With Duncan and Ginobili, you figure out which defenders to put on him and whether or not you want to send a double-team. With Parker, you have to alter your defense or else he'll just have a layup drill all night.

In conclusion, I think that while Ginobili deserves it more, coaches around the league spend so much time gamplanning for Parker that they might lean his way even though Ginobili is likely having the better year.

I have no doubt that Parker is more of a focus for opposing coaches and that, in some sense, Parker is a more talented player than Ginobili. And this is not my effort to jump into the Manu v. Tony argument -- I think the Spurs success clearly depends on both.

Still, with All-Star voting, I think there's some pressure on coaches to vote against "intangibles" and base votes on performance. Parker has certainly performed well at times this season, but Manu has been an absolute monster at a number of points this season. The fact that Manu had some huge games against West teams is really the tiebreaker in my mind.

I suppose my point was just to say that I could see how Manu's performances this season might build up a lot more support than Parker's, despite the fact that Tony is, in some ways, the Spurs player who draws more attention from an x's and o's standpoint.

Frankly, I don't expect either of them to make the All-Star team this year (absent a need to replace a West guard) for precisely the reason you suggested in your original post.

[Spurminator]

It would be no great crime if neither made the All Star Team, but I agree they were looking like pretty safe bets a month ago. I've always liked the idea of spreading it out so you include as many teams as possible anyway. I think guys like Baron Davis should be on the team. That's better for the game, IMO, than having three players from one team, even if that team is the defending Champs.

[vanvannen]

There is no way Manu is going to the ASG. Tony, on the other hand could make it, being reigning finals MVP and all.

[greens]

In conclusion, I think that while Ginobili deserves it more, coaches around the league spend so much time gamplanning for Parker that they might lean his way even though Ginobili is likely having the better year.


Also, I think Tony has the advantage in that he was the MVP of the Finals last year...Coaches might think it would be strange not to have the MVP of the last championship in the All Stars...I agree that Tony might get a higher chance of being chosen than Manu, although I also personally feel that Manu is having the better year all around, and all of his points are coming from the bench, that's what makes it even more admirable...

[cherylsteele]

ploto i think is a woman cheryl

if not

the rasho love just got abit stranger.
You right, I forgot that. I do remember seeing that somewhere before.

I am sorry if I offended you, because of that ploto.

[genomefreak13]

I think both of them will make the all star team These guys are international players remenber? All star voting is made to depend largely on fan voting. Parker (a french) will likely to get the french vote plus those in the US. Why?

first, he's the only french superstar in the NBA. So the french will definitely want him there.

Second , he is the finals MVP last year , I think that's enought to make people in the US think twice about not voting him.

Third, his numbers isn't that bad. Partially lower than the other years but not slump down. Not to mention, he makes the game faster and more exciting!

Fourth, his team is still in the winning bracket despite their problems with injuries.

Same thing apply to ginobili...Only argentinian superstar, number ins't that bad, still on a winning team... but the most important is...

He plays wicked! Have ever seen a white guy made so many highlight reels?? come on.... Why doubt?

[romain.star]

All star voting is made to depend largely on fan voting.

First, France and Argentina are no China.
Second, go on nba.com and look at the latest results, none of them will be selected by the fans.
It's all about the coachs now... IMO TP has 25% chances to get selected and Manu only 10 % (see Timvp post)

[Budkin]

Parker has been pretty average for the last month or so. There's no way he's making the All-Star team this season. I think Manu has a much better shot.

[MmP]

I merge this thread cause Kenny Smith exposed his All Star candidates for this year and Manu and Tony are in for him.

I may be wrong, but in every article about the ASG Manu has been mentioned as a backup SG.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I think at this point that they probably have, and that's fine with me. Take a rest.

I'd be more than happy to see: Kobe, Paul, Nash, Baron, Roy, Williams at the AS game.

[manufor3]

I think at this point that they probably have, and that's fine with me. Take a rest.

I'd be more than happy to see: Kobe, Paul, Nash, Baron, Roy, Williams at the AS game.
:tu

[rascal]

Forget about Ginobili. He won't make it. Parker has a chance.

[ploto]

McGrady may try to see if the NBA will let him sit out.



With his left knee giving him more problems in his second game back than Saturday in his first, Rockets guard Tracy McGrady said again that he thought he would like to sit out the All-Star Game next month.

"Right now, I think I might have to pass on that," McGrady said. "I'll attend, but I don't think I can play."

McGrady was second among Western Conference guards in the most recent update.

The voting ended Sunday. Starters will be announced Thursday.

McGrady said he has not spoken with anyone from the NBA about not playing in the All-Star Game on Feb. 17 in New Orleans.

"Not yet," he said. "Let me give it until the end of the month or the next couple weeks."

The NBA has not permitted players who are healthy enough to play for their teams to skip the game.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/5473237.html

[da_suns_fan]

Ginobili deserves it. Parker does not.

[SenorSpur]

Like any other Spurs fan, I'd like to see the Big Three recognized. However, it aint likely to happen - two would be a stretch and, of course, Duncan is a lock.

All that said, I'd rather see both Manu and TP get some well-deserved rest.