Suns and Heat in Talks of Marion/Shaq Trade

[ducks]

Playoffs aren't fast paced.










suns games can be

[T Park]

Except mortgaging Marion isn't that much. Marion sucks

Only one that could guard Parker in the playoffs last year.

[T Park]

Playoffs aren't fast paced.


Am I missing something?

Did D'Antoni get fired?

[whottt]

So, is this like what the Heat did? Mortgage everything for the future for the shot at a Championship now?


That's exactly what they are doing...


They are putting it all on the line for now...and by now, I mean this season.


And it's a smart move...Nash is pretty old himself.



I think this makes the Suns a huge bitch for us...


Steve Nash and Amare by themselves are a huge bitch for us...


Shawn Marion isn't...and he never has been.


Shaq OTOH....



The good news about all this...is that it's the defacto end of the Suns as perennial title contenders...it's this year or never.,...maybe they could stretch it out one more season...but that's it.

But I'd say with Nash's age that was going to be the case anyway.




The bottom line is that, Shaq is only the third best player on this team...hell, he might even be the fourth best.


That should scare the hell out of anyone.



I know Marion's sick stats tend to hypnotize...but he really does everything between the cracks...he does not take over games. And he's go no inside presence...on either side of the ball really.






Oh one other thing about Shaq's defense...


Shaq will just knock the shit out of Manu, Parker, or Duncan.....he's a big dude...I want you guys to tell me you'd laugh at catching one of his elbows to your face. And no one can move him...


Believe it or not, a lot of Duncan's game now relies on him being stronger than the guy defending him...that's not going to be the case with Shaq. He's definitely going to have to go to his speed game against Shaq.

[timvp]

:lol

Even if everything wich TIMVP says is true.

Mr "Come on come on come on lets go" is still the coach.

That in its self is still a huge plus for the Spurs.D'Antoni will be coach in name only. This will be Shaq's team. He knows he has one last run. Nash and everyone else will hop on Shaq's shoulders and Shaq will give it his final push.

I don't want the Spurs to play a desperate Shaq playing with desperate players like Nash and Grant Hill. That's three players who are all about winning championships.

Spurs fans can laugh and make fun of the Suns now but they just got the one player who the Spurs just can't guard. Sure, he might get injured or he might be too broken, but if he's not?

Not good.

[tmtcsc]

When I first heard about this trade, I was pissed. They get Steve Nash and Grant Hill as FA's to team up with Amare. Now Shaq is coming on board ? Holy friggin crap.

I then hopped back in my Time Machine and fast forwarded from 2004 to 2008 where I laughed my ass off. Nice one Kerr...

Come to think of it....Perhaps this was Phoenix's way of seeing what a Championship Ring looked like. God knows its as close as they will ever get to one.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know what people aren't getting.

Marion was killing their chemistry and causing a lot of problems for that team internally. They have been dangling him in trades for 2 years. They didn't want him there.

[BonnerDynasty]

Its already happened, his back and ankle have forced him to miss games.

He's been in 38 out of 40 games and avgs 14 4 3. Not quite what Spurs fan was predicting when Old Man Glass Hill signed with the Suns.

[T Park]

Spurs fans can laugh and make fun of the Suns now but they just got the one player who the Spurs just can't guard. Sure, he might get injured or he might be too broken, but if he's not?



Yeah those overweight centers who play every other game and throw up weak 8 foot hook shots are a bear.

[ducks]

D'Antoni will be coach in name only. This will be Shaq's team. He knows he has one last run. Nash and everyone else will hop on Shaq's shoulders and Shaq will give it his final push.

I don't want the Spurs to play a desperate Shaq playing with desperate players like Nash and Grant Hill. That's three players who are all about winning championships.

Spurs fans can laugh and make fun of the Suns now but they just got the one player who the Spurs just can't guard. Sure, he might get injured or he might be too broken, but if he's not?

Not good.
:rolleyes :rolleyes
I would be amazed if he passed the physical or wait their doctors can not even patch up nash so they might be able to pass shaq with his physical

[ducks]

I would love a sun vs lakers playoff series

[Kori Ellis]

He's been in 38 out of 40 games and avgs 14 4 3. Not quite what Spurs fan was predicting when Old Man Glass Hill signed with the Suns.

And shooting upwards of 50%.

[T Park]

He's been in 38 out of 40 games and avgs 14 4 3. Not quite what Spurs fan was predicting when Old Man Glass Hill signed with the Suns

Ok fine hes fuckin AC Green.

[slayermin]

This is bad.

[sabar]

This is bad.

The very reason the Suns have sucked and lost in the postseason is because of their run-and-gun offense and small ball.

They just took that away.
They just slowed down their game.
They just switched to a style that can actually win something.

It was obvious that run-and-gun was going nowhere. I'd prefer if they didn't pull the trigger because we know how to play them. Now we gotta relearn it.

[T Park]

Whatever we need to do to avoid playing both LA and Phoenix, I'm for it

:lmao

Oh for christ sake.

[Kori Ellis]

Ok fine hes fuckin AC Green.

No one is saying that. But you said that he's been missing games (implying that he was broken down). Young Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and Tim Duncan have all missed more games.

[T Park]

Now wait.

The Lakers get bigger and slower and thats good for the Spurs.

The Suns do the same thing, but OLDER, and thats bad?

:lol

Ok.

[ducks]

D'Antoni will be coach in name only. This will be Shaq's team. He knows he has one last run. Nash and everyone else will hop on Shaq's shoulders and Shaq will give it his final push.

I don't want the Spurs to play a desperate Shaq playing with desperate players like Nash and Grant Hill. That's three players who are all about winning championships.

Spurs fans can laugh and make fun of the Suns now but they just got the one player who the Spurs just can't guard. Sure, he might get injured or he might be too broken, but if he's not?

Not good.





so nash is just going to let mr shaq came to suns and let him be the man
but he was not willing to let "marion the cancer" pretend to be the man

[slayermin]

:lmao

Oh for christ sake.

You got me. I edited my post. I don't want to give up homecourt.

[T Park]

Young Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and Tim Duncan have all missed more games.

Parker thanks to his stupid ass French team and screwing off in the offseason.

Duncan's was a freak thing as was Ginobili's.

Hill's CURRENT problems the ankle and back are the same old same old.

[whottt]

Spurs fans can laugh and make fun of the Suns now but they just got the one player who the Spurs just can't guard. Sure, he might get injured or he might be too broken, but if he's not?

Not good.


Seriously...how many people in this thread have made fun of the Suns for being locked into an uptempo game and their inability to play half court...and now they're laughing about them getting arguably the most dominant half court player in NBA history(albeit at the end).


I give you props for not being contradictory...

[SenorSpur]

This potential trade makes great sense - for the Spurs, Mavs and Fakers. :lol

Sure this is a desparate move for the Suns, but it's also an indictment as to the current style they've been playing. I don't see any way Shaq can adapt to the run-n-gun style of the Suns. Neither will Phoenix be able to suddenly "slow down" its game pace to accomodate Shaq.

The Suns have a half a season to figure it out. However, history shows how difficult it can be to rebuild chemistry on the fly. History also shows that teams who make such drastic, mid-season lineup changes rarely reap immediate benefit - if at all.

That salary will be an albatross for the Suns for the next 3 seasons. If Shaq had anything left, it would have been evident this season. If he does have anything left, how is he going to suddenly get into shape to help them.

This is obviously a reactionary response to the Gasol-to-the-Fakers trade. However it makes for wonderful theater.

[T Park]

The chemistry will get better.

True.

So D'Antoni is just gonna say "Im not the coach anymore Shaq, you go ahead and run things?"

Not that friggen guy's ego.

No way no how.

[peskypesky]

People thought D'Antoni would play GHill 40 mpg too. He plays 32.

This is the regular season, not the playoffs. In the playoffs, your best players have to play more minutes, simply because you're playing against better teams than in the regular season.

[whottt]

This potential trade makes great sense - for the Spurs, Mavs and Fakers.



Um...Shawn Marion has been our shank ass bitch in the post season, arguably more than any other player on any other team, well, ok maybe K-Mart tops him.....but me? I'm sorry to see him leaving the Suns.

[T Park]

History also shows that any team making such drastic, mid-season lineup changes rarely reap immediate benefit - if at all.




I would be shittin bricks if this was 2004 Shaq.

Hell 2006 shaq.

But Shaq is a shell of the shell he was 2 years ago.

[Pistons < Spurs]

D'Antoni will be coach in name only. This will be Shaq's team. He knows he has one last run. Nash and everyone else will hop on Shaq's shoulders and Shaq will give it his final push.

I don't want the Spurs to play a desperate Shaq playing with desperate players like Nash and Grant Hill. That's three players who are all about winning championships.

Spurs fans can laugh and make fun of the Suns now but they just got the one player who the Spurs just can't guard. Sure, he might get injured or he might be too broken, but if he's not?

Not good.
+1

[T Park]

Um...Shawn Marion has been our shank ass bitch in the post season, arguably more than any other player on any other team,

Offense yes. Bowen owns him more than prob Ray Allen.

Defense though, he shut down Parker.

Now Parker will be blowing by them and doing tear drops all night.

[ducks]

bowen now will not have to shut down marion in the playoffs
bowen and tp will no be able to switch off to guard nash!

[slayermin]

As Timvp eluded to, our team isn't built to stop Shaq anymore. That's what worries me the most.

[T Park]

Boy I guess I better sell my playoff tickets then.

[T Park]

As Timvp eluded to, our team isn't built to stop Shaq anymore. That's what worries me the most.

You come down hack him, he misses 75% of his FTs.

Wow thats just tough as shit.

[timvp]

The bottomline for me as a Spurs fan was the Suns were not going to beat the Spurs in the playoffs. They might win a game or two but the Spurs were just too much of a team and were too cohesive to lose a series to the Suns.

Now? I'm not nearly as confident. I can picture a team with Shaq, Nash, Stoudemire, Hill, Bell, Barbosa, etc. beating the Spurs. The Suns chemistry went from being horrible to being great if this trade becomes official. D'Antoni went from being one of the most influential people on the Suns to being a figurehead who will be ignored. Nash went from a guy trying to lead a bunch of guys who didn't believe in him to a guy who can just play basketball.

It's a huge ass risk (no pun intended) but I would have made the same move if I was Kerr. Nash has one or two years left. Same with Shaq. It's win now or never for Phoenix. You want a win now, you take a desperate Shaq on your team without giving up anything of note.

What's ironic is I think that game against the Suns where the Spurs sucked but still beat them ... that was the straw the broke the camel's back. The Spurs were at like 50% of their playoff level and they still beat the Suns. That was the final dagger in the run and gun Suns.

[whottt]

I would be shittin bricks if this was 2004 Shaq.

Hell 2006 shaq.

But Shaq is a shell of the shell he was 2 years ago.


Steve Nash...


There will be no transition period...because Steve Nash is going to weaponize Shaq the second he steps on the court. Ever watch the guy play?

[whottt]

You come down hack him, he misses 75% of his FTs.

Wow thats just tough as shit.


That's false...

I've seen Shaq hit 9 FT's in a row to close out a playoff game before.


Sometimes it works...and sometimes it doesn't.


And any fan of a team with Tim Duncan should know that doesn't keep you from winning championships.

[T Park]

Steve Nash...


There will be no transition period...because Steve Nash is going to weaponize Shaq the second he steps on the court. Ever watch the guy play

No whottt never.

I know you saw him up close and personal in dallas so keep bragging.

How does Nash improve Shaq's FT shooting.

[ducks]

you can say steve fucking nash all you want
BOWEN AND TP WILL NOW BE ABLE TO TRADE OFF AND GUARD HIS ASS

[slayermin]

What's ironic is I think that game against the Suns where the Spurs sucked but still beat them ... that was the straw the broke the camel's back. The Spurs were at like 50% of their playoff level and they still beat the Suns. That was the final dagger in the run and gun Suns.

Great point. That was creeping into my head. I wish we won in Seattle and lost in Phoenix.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

:lol what a trade

For every 1 or 2pts shaq gets on offense, he is going to give up twice as much when the other team gets out on a break. I like this move coz Marion scared me heck of alot more than Shaq does

[T Park]

GUess the Spurs oughtta be sellers at the trading deadline then.

[Kori Ellis]

you can say steve fucking nash all you want
BOWEN AND TP WILL NOW BE ABLE TO TRADE OFF AND GUARD HIS ASS

Bowen would be guarding Nash, Tony would be guarding Raja Bell and Manu would be guarding Grant Hill.

[whottt]

What's ironic is I think that game against the Suns where the Spurs sucked but still beat them ... that was the straw the broke the camel's back. The Spurs were at like 50% of their playoff level and they still beat the Suns. That was the final dagger in the run and gun Suns.


It was....I think it definitely was. I mean it's not like Steve Kerr doesn't understand what it takes to win championships....or beat the Spurs.

[slayermin]

GUess the Spurs oughtta be sellers at the trading deadline then.

We need a Kevin Willis or Tony Massenburg type player and quick.

[ducks]

and if hill gets hot you put bowen on him for a few mintues

[T Park]

We need a Kevin Willis or Tony Massenburg type player and quick.

Yeah that worked in 04.

K Will was stellar.


What the hell Call David Robinson up.

So let me get this straight.

Shaq.

Is not only gonna push this team to a ring.

hes gonna get in shape, get healthy, and take this team over all in 4 months?

[ducks]

We need a Kevin Willis or Tony Massenburg type player and quick.
we might get on :smokin

[T Park]

Bowen would be guarding Nash, Tony would be guarding Raja Bell and Manu would be guarding Grant Hill.

Sounds fine to me.

[timvp]

Defense though, he shut down Parker.In what universe did Marion ever shut down Parker.


Now Parker will be blowing by them and doing tear drops all night.Tear drops against Shaq? I've never seen that. In fact, I'm sure Shaq has blocked more shots from Manu and Tony than any other bigman in the league.

I'm not saying the Suns are now better than the Spurs. But only a ultimate Spurs homer could say this move isn't potentially disastrous for the Spurs. With Marion, the chances the Suns beat the Spurs in the playoffs was probably like .01%. Without Marion and with Shaq, even if you want to bump that up to just 10%, this move still gives them a whole hell of a lot better chance of beating the Spurs.

The Spurs always beat the Suns because they were bigger, stronger and had better chemistry. Now the Suns will be bigger, stronger and could potentially match the Spurs' chemistry. Sure the Spurs can still beat them because the Spurs are damn good .... but if this Suns team catches on and all their players are playing good at the same time, that will be scary for any team in the NBA.

[peskypesky]

We need a Kevin Willis or Tony Massenburg type player and quick.

Nene?

[tmtcsc]

Shaq is INJURED, old, out of shape and slow. The Suns hate playing the Spurs because we actually play excellent transition defense. Now, they will have to slow up their offense with Shaq on the court.
This means other teams will be better suited to D them up.

Bad move IMO. Oh well.

[T Park]

In what universe did Marion ever shut down Parker.

Seems to me in game 2 he was switched onto him and Parker didn't have any 30 point games after that.

It took Ginobili finally waking up to get them over the hump.


Tear drops against Shaq? I've never seen that

You haven't watched your 03 DVD very well.


but if this Suns team catches on and all their players are playing good at the same time, that will be scary for any team in the NBA


If Shaq was 3 years younger and healthy I would agree.

[T Park]

Nene?

He has testicular cancer and is out for the year.

GWS.

[timvp]

The Mavs could go out tomorrow and trade Devean George and sign-and-traded Tariq Abdul-Wahad for Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen and there'd be Spurs fans saying that the trade hurt the Mavs.

That's just how Spurs fans roll :lol

[slayermin]

Yeah that worked in 04.

K Will was stellar.


What the hell Call David Robinson up.

So let me get this straight.

Shaq.

Is not only gonna push this team to a ring.

hes gonna get in shape, get healthy, and take this team over all in 4 months?

I was thinking '03 Kevin Willis or '05 Tony Massenburg. I have seen Shaq play this season and in stretches, he's looked good. He's slowed down but he isn't Chris Webber.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs always beat the Suns because they were bigger, stronger and had better chemistry. Now the Suns will be bigger, stronger and could potentially match the Spurs' chemistry. Sure the Spurs can still beat them because the Spurs are damn good .... but if this Suns team catches on and all their players are playing good at the same time, that will be scary for any team in the NBA.

I agree with most of this, but let's tap the brakes before we designate this team having the type of chemistry needed to make a deep run into the playoffs. I don't see how Amare and Shaq play together since both occupy considerable space in the paint. And Amare is not going to suddenly move out and start shooting elbow jumpers (a la Chris Webber).

Really and truly, the matchup for the Spurs just got harder, but I don't see this new version of the Suns getting by the Fakers.

[T Park]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Mavs could go out tomorrow and trade Devean George and sign-and-traded Tariq Abdul-Wahad for Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen and there'd be Spurs fans saying that the trade hurt the Mavs.

That's just how Spurs fans roll

Yeah as evidenced by the freaking out in the Gasol Laker thread.



I have seen Shaq play this season and in stretches, he's looked good. He's slowed down but he isn't Chris Webber.

Hes good?

Is this the same guy that I saw guarded easily by Scott Freaking Pollard!?!??!

[whottt]

GUess the Spurs oughtta be sellers at the trading deadline then.


You're acting like this trade is stupid on the part of Phoenix...big difference.

[T Park]

don't see how Amare and Shaq play together since both occupy considerable space in the paint


Agreed.

Stoudamire is gonna be the high post man feeding Shaq and bagging outside jumpers consistently?

Okiedoke.

[peskypesky]

... if this Suns team catches on and all their players are playing good at the same time, that will be scary for any team in the NBA.

this huge a change in chemistry and strategy? in the middle of the season? and you're adding a guy whose out with a persistent hip injury?

i think it'll be a fiasco.

[BonnerDynasty]

In what universe did Marion ever shut down Parker.

Tear drops against Shaq? I've never seen that. In fact, I'm sure Shaq has blocked more shots from Manu and Tony than any other bigman in the league.

I'm not saying the Suns are now better than the Spurs. But only a ultimate Spurs homer could say this move isn't potentially disastrous for the Spurs. With Marion, the chances the Suns beat the Spurs in the playoffs was probably like .01%. Without Marion and with Shaq, even if you want to bump that up to just 10%, this move still gives them a whole hell of a lot better chance of beating the Spurs.

The Spurs always beat the Suns because they were bigger, stronger and had better chemistry. Now the Suns will be bigger, stronger and could potentially match the Spurs' chemistry. Sure the Spurs can still beat them because the Spurs are damn good .... but if this Suns team catches on and all their players are playing good at the same time, that will be scary for any team in the NBA.

Chemistry....maybe.

But Spurs have played together for a long time and forged in the fires of gutty playoff wins/losses. That's what it comes down to in those last 2 minutes. Can the Suns really throw these guys together for the second half and reach their pinnacle during the playoffs? With that much talent, they probably can. But I hope not :(

[timvp]

I agree with most of this, but let's tap the brakes before we designate this team having the type of chemistry needed to make a deep run into the playoffs. I don't see how Amare and Shaq play together since both occupy considerable space in the paint. And Amare is not going to suddenly move out and start shooting elbow jumpers (a la Chris Webber).

Really and truly, the matchup for the Spurs just got harder, but I don't see this new version of the Suns getting by the Fakers.Amare might have the best mid-range jumper out of any big in the league outside of Dirk. I don't see the problem of Shaq and Amare. Amare already proved over and over again he's not a center on either end of the court. This season any bigman with a pulse was dominating him.

Now he has the ultimate center next to him and can go back to shooting jumpers or running pick and rolls with Nash. It's not like Amare has a refined postup game that he'll have to give up.

[T Park]

You're acting like this trade is stupid on the part of Phoenix...big difference

Not stupid.

Just not enough.

If they had gotten a more healthy low post presence I would be worried.

Had they acquired Al Jefferson, I would REALLY be worried.

Shaq who the last time played against Elson got out rebounded by him and guarded well?

Suuuree.

[whottt]

In what universe did Marion ever shut down Parker.

Tear drops against Shaq? I've never seen that.


To be fair...Parker schooled Shaq in the first 2 games of the 04 playoffs. Lots of spectacular tear drops over Shaq's dome in games one and two.


Then Phil started doubling him and Shaq started knocking the crap out of him every time he went into the paint.

[baseline bum]

Chemistry....maybe.

But Spurs have played together for a long time. That's what it comes down to in those last 2 minutes. Can the Suns really throw these guys together for the second half and reach their pinnacle during the playoffs?

Well, I've always wanted one last go at Shaq in the playoffs after the team blew the '04 series, and that sure as hell wasn't happening in Miami.

[T Park]

So Duncan won't get shaq in foul trouble and kill all this?

Got it.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

People 4get how easy it is to get Shaq into foul trouble.

[T Park]

To be fair...Parker schooled Shaq in the first 2 games of the 04 playoffs. Lots of spectacular tear drops over Shaq's dome in games one and two.



Exactly.

D'Antoni aint Phil Jackson either so he aint gonna figure shit out.

[slayermin]

Hes good?

Is this the same guy that I saw guarded easily by Scott Freaking Pollard!?!??!

That was probably a bad stretch. The Heat are horrible this year and you know Shaq isn't exactly the epitome of giving his best effort, night in and night out. Especially if they are getting blown out.

But I have watched about five or six Heat games and when he's feeling good, you can tell he has a little left in the tank.

[T Park]

People 4get how easy it is to get Shaq into foul trouble.

He was getting in foul trouble in damn near every game with the Heat.

One of Pat Riley's biggest peeves with him.

[E20]

So this shit is going into full steam, Yahoo sports reports that this trade is going down, all that is in the way is a physical which Shaq will fail.

[whottt]

So Duncan won't get shaq in foul trouble and kill all this?

Got it.



Game 6 of the 03 playoffs was really the only time Duncan took him to school. But the truth is, they haven't been matched up against each other that often...

And Duncan has never done a good job of defending Shaq...ever.

[BonnerDynasty]

D'Antoni aint Phil Jackson either so he aint gonna figure shit out.


:lol :lol

Didn't you just hear?


Phil Jackson was traded to the Suns for D'Antonio and a second round pick.

[T Park]

Yeah the trade is a done deal.

He'll be wearing 32 in Phoenix.

Knowing Phoenix's yuppies they are freaking out so hard they can't stand it.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

i say good riddance Marion. Watch Melo drop 40+ on the suns :smokin

[T Park]

Bonner Dynasty,

Im no basketball expert, im just a stooge that watches games.
But the Lakers got screwed on that trade

:lmao

[SenorSpur]

Amare might have the best mid-range jumper out of any big in the league outside of Dirk. I don't see the problem of Shaq and Amare. Amare already proved over and over again he's not a center on either end of the court. This season any bigman with a pulse was dominating him.

Now he has the ultimate center next to him and can go back to shooting jumpers or running pick and rolls with Nash. It's not like Amare has a refined postup game that he'll have to give up.

At Shaq's age and declining condition, he's also proved that he's no longer a center either. :lol

Ok that was a cheap shot. Suns did well in getting the last dominant center on the landscape I guess I just need to see how this plays out. For the Suns to suddenly change their style in midseason will be harder than it seems.

[E20]

Damn,

Nash
Amare
Shaq

that would be GOLD if Shaq were a couple years younger.

[T Park]

Whottt,

Shaq was hard to guard when he was agressive for dunks all the time.

he thinks hes a shooter now and settles for that one handed shot wayyyy too much now.

[whottt]

Exactly.

D'Antoni aint Phil Jackson either so he aint gonna figure shit out.


Watch Shaq play much lately?


Shaq just knocks the crap out of guys now...in fact that series was probably when he started doing it.

[timvp]

Then Phil started doubling him and Shaq started knocking the crap out of him every time he went into the paint.That's how most team's guard Parker in the playoffs now. I'd expect that's how the Suns will guard him .... especially without Marion to put on Parker. They'll probably put Nash or Hill on Parker and then tell Shaq to be ready whenever Parker has the ball to come over and help.

What's going to be odd now is teams will be going small against the Suns. The tables will have turned. The one weakness in these new Suns is neither Shaq nor Amare can step out and guard a shooter. For example, if Horry could guard Amare on one end, he'd be wide azz open on the other end.

Then again, this year with Horry hitting 20% it doesn't really matter if he's guarded or not.

[T Park]

At Shaq's age and declining condition, he's also proved that he's no longer a center either. :lol

Ok that was a cheap shot. Suns did well in getting the last dominant center on the landscape I guess I just need to see how this plays out. For the Suns to suddenly change their style in midseason will be harder than it seems.


For the egomaniac D'Antoni to all of a sudden hand the reigns of the team over to Shaq too is hard to believe.

Shaq will be saying "If Steve Kerr was coaching this team, I would've been playing"

[Joe Schmoogins]

The Spurs always beat the Suns because they were bigger, stronger and had better chemistry. Now the Suns will be bigger, stronger and could potentially match the Spurs' chemistry.

Bigger... true
Stronger... possibly, depending on Shaq's health.
Spur like Chemistry... I highly doubt it.


I'd have to see the chemistry before I believe it. Sure their chemistry might improve, but no way in hell do they have chemistry comparable to the 4 time champs... I agree with pretty much everything you are saying, infact I was arguing similar points... but I am not nearly as convinced as you are about their chemistry. That point of your argument seems like a bit of a reach.

[T Park]

That's how most team's guard Parker in the playoffs now. I'd expect that's how the Suns will guard him .... especially without Marion to put on Parker. They'll probably put Nash or Hill on Parker and then tell Shaq to be ready whenever Parker has the ball to come over and help.

What's going to be odd now is teams will be going small against the Suns. The tables will have turned. The one weakness in these new Suns is neither Shaq nor Amare can step out and guard a shooter. For example, if Horry could guard Amare on one end, he'd be wide azz open on the other end.

Then again, this year with Horry hitting 20% it doesn't really matter if he's guarded or not.


So you play Udoka, and have Udoka guard Stoudamire.

Udoka has shown a penchant for guarding bigger players well.

I predict elson's last show will be given in the next Spurs Suns game.

[whottt]

Whottt,

Shaq was hard to guard when he was agressive for dunks all the time.

he thinks hes a shooter now and settles for that one handed shot wayyyy too much now.


Shaq doesn't get the ball anymore now...and that baby hook is effective.



Just out of curiosity...what's Shaq's FG% this season?


Answer that then you'll know how much of the decline in his scoring is due to him not getting the ball.


The Heat are pretty much the DWade Show now.


And Shaq will sit there and tell you straight up that he's not going to bust his butt defending and rebounding if he's not getting the ball. Guys never complain about not getting the ball when they play with Nash.

[T Park]

Watch Shaq play much lately?


Shaq just knocks the crap out of guys now...in fact that series was probably when he started doing it.


Yeah I've watched him lately, hence why I'm not freaking out over this trade.

[whottt]

Shaq's FG% this season: 581%




Yeap...that sucks. He obviously doesn't have anything left.

[T Park]

Shaq doesn't get the ball anymore now...and that baby hook is effective.



Just out of curiosity...what's Shaq's FG% this season?


Answer that then you'll know how much of the decline in his scoring is due to him not getting the ball.


The Heat are pretty much the DWade Show now.


And Shaq will sit there and tell you straight up that he's not going to bust his butt defending and rebounding if he's not getting the ball. Guys never complain about not getting the ball when they play with Nash.



So Stoudamire is gonna willingly take less shots?

Right.

[T Park]

Shaq's FG% this season: 581%




Yeap...that sucks. He obviously doesn't have anything left.

TWo words.

Eastern.

Conference.

[Pablo Escobar]

done deal just heard on espn

[E20]

581%

Damn....For every basket he makes, he is actually making 5.81 baskets per shot.

[timvp]

Bigger... true
Stronger... possibly, depending on Shaq's health.
Spur like Chemistry... I highly doubt it.


I'd have to see the chemistry before I believe it. Sure their chemistry might improve, but no way in hell do they have chemistry comparable to the 4 time champs... I agree with pretty much everything you are saying, infact I was arguing similar points... but I am not nearly as convinced as you are about their chemistry. That point of your argument seems like a bit of a reach.I just don't think players like Amare or even Grant Hill could fully rally behind a team led by Nash and D'Antoni. But I can believe that Amare and Hill could rally around a team led by Shaq. Everyone has always rallied around Shaq outside of Kobe.

It's rare to find a player who has played with Shaq who doesn't have the utmost respect for Shaq. Like I said, he's unorthodox in that he can say stupid things to the media and can be selfish at times ... but players have always rallied around him. The Suns didn't have anyone or anything to rally around before.

[timvp]

So you play Udoka, and have Udoka guard Stoudamire.

Udoka has shown a penchant for guarding bigger players well.

I predict elson's last show will be given in the next Spurs Suns game.Udoka on Stoudemire? Yeah, the Spurs should become the Suns while the Suns become the Spurs.

Good plan :tu

[T Park]

Gotta say one thing.

The NBA hasn't had this much movement, of its stars in I don't know if ever.

Garnett.
Gasol.
O'Neal
Allen

Unreal

[ChumpDumper]

This will be the first time we actually try to force the pace on the Suns.

[T Park]

I just don't think players like Amare or even Grant Hill could fully rally behind a team led by Nash and D'Antoni. But I can believe that Amare and Hill could rally around a team led by Shaq. Everyone has always rallied around Shaq outside of Kobe.

It's rare to find a player who has played with Shaq who doesn't have the utmost respect for Shaq. Like I said, he's unorthodox in that he can say stupid things to the media and can be selfish at times ... but players have always rallied around him. The Suns didn't have anyone or anything to rally around before.



So Amare.

Mr penned himself the name STAT.

Is gonna give up shots, and defer to Mr O'Neal without a peep.

[T Park]

This will be the first time we actually try to force the pace on the Suns.


You do it in stretches.

Thats the reason Oberto is good for this team.

he can hack on shaq and flop and draw calls, while being able to keep going up and down without looking like the fat guy you see at the YMCA.

No not me i dont play at the YMCA.

[timvp]

What sucks for the Spurs is they are built to beat small ball teams. Now the Suns are no longer small ball and the Lakers are no longer small ball. It's kinda like 2006 when the Spurs were still built to beat Shaq teams and the NBA changed on them.

It happened again. It looks like small ball is officially dead. It's back to just being Don Nelson again ... just like it's always been :lol

[Kori Ellis]

So Amare.

Mr penned himself the name STAT.

Is gonna give up shots, and defer to Mr O'Neal without a peep.

:lol STAT isn't about Stats.

[whottt]

So Stoudamire is gonna willingly take less shots?

Right.


Defer to Shaq?


You bet....


And Timvp already mentioned why....6 Finals, 4 championships and 3 Finals MVPs...


Plus...Nash controls the ball for Phoenix.




You guys got to realize...this is not just trading Shaq to any team, this is trading him to a team with a guy who makes other players better arguably better than any guy in the NBA.


It's like taking an old rusty nuclear warhead and sticking some fresh uranium in it....it may be old and rusty, but it's still a freaking nuke.

[E20]

Shaq maybe good in the locker room to make a team cohesive and mesh together with his confidence and no-lose attitude, but I doubt he will provide results on teh court like he used to. Unless if Nash takes extra measures to give Shaq the ball, then everybody elses numbers on the Suns will go down.

[T Park]

Udoka on Stoudemire? Yeah, the Spurs should become the Suns while the Suns become the Spurs.

Good plan :tu


Ok who do you have guard Stoudamire?

Duncan?

Sure, but then all of a sudden 2004 Shaq is gonna be guarded by Elson and Oberto and OMG, HE CANT BE FOULED!!!

[T Park]

What sucks for the Spurs is they are built to beat small ball teams. Now the Suns are no longer small ball and the Lakers are no longer small ball. It's kinda like 2006 when the Spurs were still built to beat Shaq teams and the NBA changed on them.

It happened again. It looks like small ball is officially dead. It's back to just being Don Nelson again ... just like it's always been :lol

Much to David Stern's shagrin.

Although Nelson can run out Biedrins, maybe O'Bryant.

[peskypesky]

This will be the first time we actually try to force the pace on the Suns.
lol

you're right about that! we'll run & gun and small-ball them to death! :spin

[T Park]

Defer to Shaq?


You bet....


And Timvp already mentioned why....6 Finals, 4 championships and 3 Finals MVPs...


Plus...Nash controls the ball for Phoenix.




You guys got to realize...this is not just trading Shaq to any team, this is trading him to a team with a guy who makes other players better arguably better than any guy in the NBA.


It's like taking an old rusty nuclear warhead and sticking some fresh uranium in it....it may be old and rusty, but it's still a freaking nuke.


Yeah cause Amare is a smart level headed fellow.

[dg7md]

Suns without Marion will take a definite hit to their game, I think the Heat would greatly benefit from this deal... Marion is easily one of the most versatile players in the league. Wade, Marion and Haslem are quite a nice system to work around.

[duncan228]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3232862

Sources: Suns a 'yes' away from acquiring Shaq for Marion
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

The seemingly improbable pairing of an aging Shaquille O'Neal and the run-and-gun Phoenix Suns is just a final "yes" from the Suns away from happening, according to NBA front-office sources.

Sources told ESPN.com on Tuesday night thaat the Miami Heat have already agreed to send O'Neal to the Suns in exchange for All-Star forward Shawn Marion and out-of-favor guard Marcus Banks. Miami is simply waiting for Phoenix management to complete a medical examination of O'Neal and formally accept what would rank as one of most unexpected trades in league history.

"It looks like it's going to happen," said one source close to the situation. "We should know for sure by tomorrow."

ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher reported Tuesday night on SportsCenter that O'Neal is scheduled to arrive in Phoenix on Wednesday to undergo a physical. A source close to Marion told ESPN.com early Wednesday that the Suns have informed the 29-year-old that the deal will go through, with the forward eager now to move on after playing with the Suns for his whole career.

The Arizona Republic, also reported that a deal could be imminent and that O'Neal had contacted some Suns players Tuesday night.

The Miami Herald first reported on its Web site Tuesday night that the Heat have informed O'Neal that they are shopping him and that talks with the Suns were serious.

That apparently surprised O'Neal ... but also pleased him. Sources told ESPN.com that the 35-year-old -- in the midst of his least productive season and with the Heat cratering from a championship in 2006 to a 9-37 record less than two years later -- is eager to leave Miami and his deteriorating relationship with Heat coach Pat Riley.

Making a move for O'Neal appears on the surface to make little basketball or financial sense for the Suns. O'Neal's arrival in Phoenix would undoubtedly prompt widespread skepticism about his ability to keep up in the Suns' high-octane system. The two years and $40 million remaining on O'Neal's contract after this season also clashes with the Suns' recent pattern of trading away players (such as Kurt Thomas) and draft picks in attempt to reduce payroll and eventually drag themselves away from the NBA luxury-tax line of $67.875 million.

The Suns, though, have been plagued by well-chronicled concerns about their chemistry for nearly two years, generally focusing on the occasional dissatisfaction voiced behind the scenes by either Marion or Amare Stoudemire. In the locker room as well as the front office, sources say, there are factions that have believed for some time that one of them would eventually have to be traded for the Suns to reach their full potential.

Those in-house doubts about this group's ability to break through and win the first championship in team history have only grown this season, sources say, even though Phoenix currently holds the best record in the West at 34-14.

But owner Robert Sarver and team president Steve Kerr, according to sources with knowledge of the Suns' thinking, have ruled out trading Stoudemire, despite season-long speculation suggesting that his defensive deficiencies would ultimately lead to his exit before Marion's. Sarver and Kerr have deemed Stoudemire too valuable to part with, given that he's only 25 and continues to play at an All-Star level after three surgeries, ranking as perhaps the NBA's most successful comeback patient from the dreaded microfracture knee procedure.

Marion asked to be traded before the season but has rarely mentioned that declaration since, with many Suns insiders believing that he went public with that request mostly as a protest response to being mentioned in trade rumors for years. If he leaves now, it's likely more because Phoenix believes a) that Boris Diaw can assume some of Marion's old duties, b) that Stoudemire will relish playing alongside Shaq as a power forward as opposed to masquerading as a center and c) that team chemistry will improve immediately with this change.

Acquiring O'Neal would also address the size issues Phoenix has faced since two-time MVP Steve Nash was reacquired as a free agent in the summer of 2004 to orchestrate coach Mike D'Antoni's free-wheeling system.

The Suns are said to be confident that Nash can find a way to get Shaq involved offensively. And it's undeniably true that the West is still filled with plenty of big men for Shaq to match up with. Just to name five: San Antonio's Tim Duncan, Houston's Yao Ming, New Orleans' Tyson Chandler, Portland's Greg Oden (next season) and Andrew Bynum of the Los Angeles Lakers.

Of course, O'Neal turns 36 in March and has been plagued by a persistent hip problem that has cost him 14 games this season. He refused to speak with Miami reporters after Tuesday's practice, while Riley insisted that O'Neal would soon undergo an MRI after missing the Heat's past six games.

And when he has been healthy, O'Neal is averaging a career-worst 14.2 points and 7.8 rebounds, while the Heat's demise has deepened after they followed their historic comeback from 2-0 down against Dallas in the 2006 NBA Finals by absorbing a first-round sweep by Chicago last season.

So if the deal does go through as widely expected now, Phoenix would be banking on the idea that O'Neal will be rejuvenated health-wise and reinvigorated mentally by the prospect of fresh start, after a half-season in which his remaining effectiveness and durability have been doubted louder than ever.

Miami's motivation, meanwhile, is clear. The Heat's need to revamp their entire roster around Dwyane Wade grows more apparent by the day in what ranks as an unprecedented collapse for a championship team that didn't lose its star players. Marion has the ability to opt out of his contract at season's end if he's willing to forfeit next season's $17.2 million salary, potentially giving the Heat substantial salary-cap space as early as this summer.

It remains to be seen if the Heat want Marion more for the financial flexibility or because they see him as a long-term complement to Wade. It also remains to be seen how much Phoenix will miss Marion's athleticism and versatility, since his ability to guard all five positions and tireless running made him a one-of-a-kind fit alongside Nash in D'Antoni's system.

Sarver said earlier this month that Marion was one of the Suns' cornerstone players who "flat-out was not getting traded," but that changed once Miami started shopping O'Neal. Although Riley later denied it, Bucher reported on ESPN2's "NBA Coast to Coast" last week that Miami had been begun to gauge trade interest in the hulking center with four championship rings from his time with the Lakers and Heat.

Although attempts to reach officials from both teams proved unsuccessful, D'Antoni did acknowledge the possibility of O'Neal's arrival on his weekly radio show Tuesday night, saying: "It would mean a lot. [But] that's a big question that's got to be thought over and pondered."

[Joe Schmoogins]

I just don't think players like Amare or even Grant Hill could fully rally behind a team led by Nash and D'Antoni. But I can believe that Amare and Hill could rally around a team led by Shaq. Everyone has always rallied around Shaq outside of Kobe.

It's rare to find a player who has played with Shaq who doesn't have the utmost respect for Shaq. Like I said, he's unorthodox in that he can say stupid things to the media and can be selfish at times ... but players have always rallied around him. The Suns didn't have anyone or anything to rally around before.

true... I don't think the ego's of Marion or Amare could fully rally behind Nash and D'Antoni like you mentioned. there's a good chance for an improvement there... but I'm a long ways away from saying that their chemistry (after playing together for 3 months) will be similar to the Spurs who have a core of proven character guys... and they've won multiple championships together.

[timvp]

So Amare.

Mr penned himself the name STAT.

Is gonna give up shots, and defer to Mr O'Neal without a peep.Amare will probably get even more shots. Teams still have to double Shaq and that will mean wide open perimeter jumpers for Amare ... which he can knock down. And then when the Suns run a pick and roll with Nash and Amare, you can't leave Shaq or else Nash will just pass it to Shaq for a dunk.

The players that will be hurt by this move are the players who depended on the fast pace to score ... like Barbosa and even Bell. Nash, Stoudemire, Hill and Shaq can all be effective in the half court.

[whottt]

I'll predict that the Spur whose PT is going to benefit the most by this move is Bonner...

[timvp]

You do it in stretches.

Thats the reason Oberto is good for this team.

he can hack on shaq and flop and draw callsThe last time Oberto tried to guard Shaq, Shaq flattened Oberto and Oberto was out for two weeks.

[duncan228]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=ShaqSuns080206&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dholling er_john%26page%3dShaqSuns080206

Shaq trade just wouldn't add up for Suns
By John Hollinger
ESPN Insider

The Phoenix Suns have the best record in the Western Conference, a game and a half ahead of their closest rival. They have the best scoring margin in the conference. They're 8-2 in their past 10 games (while outscoring opponents by nine points per game). And the Suns have a slew of home games coming up because their early schedule was so road-heavy.

In other words, after 48 games they're in as good a position as they've ever been in to win their first conference title since Sir Charles and KJ did it 15 years ago.

And their solution? Blow it up!

The Suns are reportedly in negotiations to trade Shawn Marion -- a man everyone agrees is a vital cog in their attack because of his ability to run opponents into submission from the power forward spot -- for Shaquille O'Neal. (The Suns would include Marcus Banks.)

Good call. Clearly this Nash-Marion-Stoudamire nucleus isn't working out; they've won only 62 and 61 games the two years they were together. This year they were on pace for a meager 58, so I guess they thought it had run its course.

My first reaction to hearing reports about this deal was that I was being Punk'd. After that, I checked the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1, and verified that the voice on the other end of the phone didn't belong to Orson Welles.

But there was no Ashton Kutcher, no Orson Welles, and the calendar says it's February.

Believe it or not, this is a real, live trade discussion that might actually happen. I'm not sure I've adequately conveyed my shock at this development, but suffice it to say nobody I've talked to finds it even remotely sensible.

Shaq may be the one player who is least capable of thriving in the Suns' system. Run the break? No, thank you. Set a high screen and dive to the cup? Maybe 10 years ago. Space the floor for 3s? Please.

He's 35 and out of shape; at the moment he's also hurt. Even when healthy, he's had difficulty staying out of foul trouble long enough to make an impact. While I'll grant that Shaq can still be an offensive force -- even with his struggles this year his PER is a very solid 18.17 -- he's toasted regularly on defense. And if you thought Marion complained about not getting shots, you ain't heard nothing yet.

Even if you subscribe to the idea that Marion had to go -- there have been mutterings about his attitude for quite a while -- you can't seriously tell me this was the best deal on the table.

While matching his $17 million contract is difficult, the fact that there's only a year and a half left on it means there are partners out there. Just thinking out loud, for instance, you'd think New Jersey would have taken Marion in a heartbeat for Vince Carter or Richard Jefferson, and the Andrei Kirilenko deal that was so heavily discussed before the season also would seem preferable.

Marion, by the way, hadn't let his dissatisfaction and his own offseason trade demand affect his play. His 20.25 PER nearly matches last year's 20.87, and he's made up for a reduction in shots by cutting his turnovers and increasing his assists.

But despite his performance they're trading him for an older, less effective player, and one who could not be more of a square peg in a round hole in their system.

And get this -- the deal will worsen their cap situation, too. Shaq is on the books for two years after this one at $20 million a pop, whereas Marion only has one year left at less money, and may opt out after this season. So in addition to messing up their own team, the Suns will be basically handing Pat Riley a big fat Get Out of Jail Free card.

In short, this deal feels like one of these movie scenes where the lead character has a plan and says, "It's crazy ... but it just might work!"

I'm not sure about the working part, but it's definitely crazy. I'm praying this trade doesn't really happen, because the Suns have been too entertaining for too long to screw up their title chances like this.

[whottt]

The bottom line about all of this is that Shawn Marion freaking sucked against the Spurs...if his absence won't be noticed against any team...it's us.


And somehow I don't think sticking Bruce on Shaq is going to be as effective as sticking him on Marion was. Call it a hunch.

[whottt]

Yeah cause Amare is a smart level headed fellow.


More like Amare probably grew up idolizing Shaq...in fact I'm pretty sure I've heard him say that before.

[timvp]

Let me edit my previous take. With the Warriors signing Webber and promising him to start every game, even Don Nelson has given up on small ball. Amazing.

The Spurs are built to beat teams that don't exist anymore. Doesn't mean the Spurs can't win the championship or anything like that but it just sucks that half the West gave up on small ball in the middle of the season right when the Spurs actually got good at small ball :lol

[E20]

Amare will probably get even more shots. Teams still have to double Shaq and that will mean wide open perimeter jumpers for Amare ... which he can knock down. And then when the Suns run a pick and roll with Nash and Amare, you can't leave Shaq or else Nash will just pass it to Shaq for a dunk.

The players that will be hurt by this move are the players who depended on the fast pace to score ... like Barbosa and even Bell. Nash, Stoudemire, Hill and Shaq can all be effective in the half court.
I haven't seen Shaq doubled in a while. I doubt we will for another month. How long is he still out for? There have been many/numerous instances during the times he's played that he has been effectively contained with 1 on 1 D.

[sabar]

Well Hollinger said it won't work, so it's bound to work.

[T Park]

nd somehow I don't think sticking Bruce on Shaq is going to be as effective as sticking him on Marion was

No kidding.


Amare will probably get even more shots. Teams still have to double Shaq and that will mean wide open perimeter jumpers for Amare ... which he can knock down. And then when the Suns run a pick and roll with Nash and Amare, you can't leave Shaq or else Nash will just pass it to Shaq for a dunk.

The players that will be hurt by this move are the players who depended on the fast pace to score ... like Barbosa and even Bell. Nash, Stoudemire, Hill and Shaq can all be effective in the half court.


Ok the Spurs are fucked.

[T Park]

Well Hollinger said it won't work, so it's bound to work.


Yeah, thats the last person I wanted to see on my side.

[timvp]

I haven't seen Shaq doubled in a while. I doubt we will for another month. How long is he still out for? There have been many/numerous instances during the times he's played that he has been effectively contained with 1 on 1 D.Shaq would demand double-teams five years from now.

[T Park]

Udoka's worthyness just got less worthy.

Honestly, now if your the Spurs, you look to package up Barry or Finley and make a deal.

Pryzbilla might be someone to look out.

Doubtfull hes moved though in the west.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Well Hollinger said it won't work, so it's bound to work.

PER! PER!

He sits only behind Simmons as ESPN's worst writer, but he's gaining.

I don't get how anyone would think that Amare wouldn't welcome this trade. He'll become a better player playing next to Diesel and he knows it.

Title chances of the Suns just got better, IMO.

[Kori Ellis]

Ehh.. If the Spurs get healthy, they can beat anyone in a 7 game series. Let the rest of the league scramble to pick up players. If the Spurs can get younger by dangling Elson/Finley/Barry or whoever else, fine. But the Spurs will be in good shape come playoff time if everyone gets healthy and they find some cohesiveness.

[timvp]

I'll predict that the Spur whose PT is going to benefit the most by this move is Bonner...I thought about saying that but then I imagined Bonner trying to guard Stoudemire or Shaq.

[ChumpDumper]

So whom do we trade to get Rasho back?

[J.T.]

Lol Suns giving up at small ball. They already can't beat us at our own game, how's getting Shaq going to help?

[T Park]

Bonner guarding anyone makes me shiver.

TIMVP, you've convinced me this is a bad trade for the Spurs.

If your the Spurs, what is your counter strike.


Question

[T Park]

So whom do we trade to get Rasho back?

K Will is still a FA....

[slayermin]

Udoka's worthyness just got less worthy.

Honestly, now if your the Spurs, you look to package up Barry or Finley and make a deal.

Pryzbilla might be someone to look out.

Doubtfull hes moved though in the west.

I'm not sure how everyone else feels but we need Barry and Finley. I don't want to go into the playoffs without proven 3pt shooters. I have confidence in them.

[timvp]

Ehh.. If the Spurs get healthy, they can beat anyone in a 7 game series. Let the rest of the league scramble to pick up players. If the Spurs can get younger by dangling Elson/Finley/Barry or whoever else, fine. But the Spurs will be in good shape come playoff time if everyone gets healthy and they find some cohesiveness.Yeah, out of all the West contenders, the Spurs are least effected by the Shaq and Gasol trades. The Spurs play best when they don't have to go small.

However, it's kinda scary to think the Spurs' championship hopes ride on Horry. If Horry can defend Gasol and Stoudemire and then hit threes on the other end, the Spurs will have no problem with the Lakers or Suns. If he can't? It'd be a lot harder for the Spurs.

Just in case the Spurs might try to go out and get a bigger, thicker big to be able to throw at Shaq and Bynum. Even if it's just PJ Brown or Dale Davis, the Spurs need a big with some strength. The West went from small ball back to 2003 overnight.

[T Park]

I'm not sure how everyone else feels but we need Barry and Finley. I don't want to go into the playoffs without proven 3pt shooters. I have confidence in them.

Gotta trade someone :lol

[E20]

Shaq would demand double-teams five years from now.
So it must be the year 2014 then.

[T Park]

Even if it's just PJ Brown or Dale Davis, the Spurs need a big with some strength. The West went from small ball back to 2003 overnight.

How about Kurt Thomas?

Would he qualify as perfect right now?


Get presti on the phone :hungry

[timvp]

So whom do we trade to get Rasho back?:lol

I just thought about trading for Rasho -- as long as he turned his player option into a team option. That actually might not be the worst idea . . .

[slayermin]

And fucking DJ Mbenga was out there. Man, hindsight sucks.

[sabar]

This is pretty CIA by Phoenix. Shaq is still injured so teams, including us, can't get a look at how this team will play before the trade deadline comes, so they have to ride on theory or gut instinct.

[T Park]

If Horry can defend Gasol and Stoudemire and then hit threes on the other end, the Spurs will have no problem with the Lakers or Suns

Im confident in that.

Im confident after tonight that his shot is also coming around.

[baseline bum]

Game 6 of the 03 playoffs was really the only time Duncan took him to school.

4-0 in 1999 ring a bell? Shaq's loud proclamation that he was going to guard Duncan and shut him down in game 3? The game where Duncan came out and scored like 17 points on him in the first quarter, and forced Shaq to go back and guard David?

[T Park]

I just thought about trading for Rasho -- as long as he turned his player option into a team option. That actually might not be the worst idea


Christ on a popsicle stick :lmao

[T Park]

And fucking DJ Mbenga was out there. Man, hindsight sucks.

:lol

[whottt]

I thought about saying that but then I imagined Bonner trying to guard Stoudemire or Shaq.

Bonner might actually do a good job against Shaq...Bonner's pretty stout.



It's either that or Duncan's on Shaq and Finley's on Amare...since Finley is still the only guy on this team that comes remotely close to doing a good job against him defensively.

[duncan228]

Ehh.. If the Spurs get healthy, they can beat anyone in a 7 game series. Let the rest of the league scramble to pick up players. If the Spurs can get younger by dangling Elson/Finley/Barry or whoever else, fine. But the Spurs will be in good shape come playoff time if everyone gets healthy and they find some cohesiveness.

I'm with you.

[timvp]

Bonner guarding anyone makes me shiver.

TIMVP, you've convinced me this is a bad trade for the Spurs.

If your the Spurs, what is your counter strike.


QuestionOther than praying Horry has another year and maybe getting a cheap, old big with some muscle ... I don't think the Spurs can or should do anything too drastic.

They can still beat these teams but the West just got a whole lot tougher ... and a whole lot different. The Mavs are the only thing close to small ball left and they aren't really small ball.

[whottt]

So whom do we trade to get Nazr back?


Fixed...Narz actually does a good job against Shaq.

Rasho...well Rasho doesn't.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I wish we got Shaq to be our center, just have him play the first three quarters.

[whottt]

Other than praying Horry has another year and maybe getting a cheap, old big with some muscle ... I don't think the Spurs can or should do anything to drastic.

They can still beat these teams but the West just got a whole lot tougher ... and a whole lot different. The Mavs are the only thing close to small ball left and they aren't really small ball.


Horry seems to underperform when going up against Shaq. And Horry cannot guard him...see the 04 playoffs for a reminder of this.

Honestly...Bonner might do a good job against Shaq.

[T Park]

Other than praying Horry has another year and maybe getting a cheap, old big with some muscle ... I don't think the Spurs can or should do anything to drastic.


Kurt Thomas, PJ Brown, or leave the team alone IMO.

[T Park]

Fixed...Narz actually does a good job against Shaq.

Rasho...well Rasho doesn't

Nazr played Stoudamire damn well too.

[T Park]

orry seems to underperform when going up against Shaq. And Horry cannot guard him...see the 04 playoffs for a reminder of this.


I think he means Horry would guard Stoudamire.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Im confident in that.

Im confident after tonight that his shot is also coming around.
Yeah, I'll never count Horry out, with his three ball.

[timvp]

Horry seems to underperform when going up against Shaq. And Horry cannot guard him...see the 04 playoffs for a reminder of this.

Honestly...Bonner might do a good job against Shaq.What world did I step into where the Suns are bigger and stronger than the Spurs and whottt is advocating Bonner over Horry?

This Shaq trade just missed up the universe's equalibrium.

:dizzy

[whottt]

Actually...I think this move makes keeping Barry a smart option.


We won't be able to outrun the Suns...the difference is that they just became scary in the half court...


Well...Tim Duncan alone can pretty much hang with anyone in a half court game...provided he has shooters. And Barry is the best shooter on this team.


Time to start thinking like it's 02 again...complete with the return of Ghost Writer.

[T Park]

Honestly, now that Im thinking about it.

If the Spurs were to only win 1 more ring, this is the year.

The Lakers get flashier and more famous.

The Suns get O'Neal a player whos flummoxed the Spurs time and time again.

The Media now adores Phoenix and LA alot, but now even more, espcially with Diesel back in the west.



If the Spurs won this year, not only would it cement the dynasty, it would also leave teams shaking their head saying

"We can't think of anything else to do"

[timvp]

I hope the Suns get off to a decent start with Shaq. Otherwise Kerr might fire D'Antoni and name himself as coach.

Now that would suck.

[T Park]

Actually...I think this move makes keeping Barry a smart option.


We won't be able to outrun the Suns...the difference is that they just became scary in the half court...


Well...Tim Duncan alone can pretty much hang with anyone in a half court game...provided he has shooters. And Barry is the best shooter on this team.


All I can say, is the fucker better not choke like he did in 06 vs the damn Mavericks.

[SenorSpur]

Yeah, out of all the West contenders, the Spurs are least effected by the Shaq and Gasol trades. The Spurs play best when they don't have to go small.

However, it's kinda scary to think the Spurs' championship hopes ride on Horry. If Horry can defend Gasol and Stoudemire and then hit threes on the other end, the Spurs will have no problem with the Lakers or Suns. If he can't? It'd be a lot harder for the Spurs.

Just in case the Spurs might try to go out and get a bigger, thicker big to be able to throw at Shaq and Bynum. Even if it's just PJ Brown or Dale Davis, the Spurs need a big with some strength. The West went from small ball back to 2003 overnight.

Spurs DO need another big because they usually get nothing from the Elson/Oberto combination. Funny how the Spurs migrated to these two because they wanted to have more lineup flexibility in a small-ball scenario. Now the size and strength they got rid of is now what they need again.

[T Park]

I hope the Suns get off to a decent start with Shaq. Otherwise Kerr might fire D'Antoni and name himself as coach.

Now that would suck.


Or


try and get Larry Brown.


if either one happened I'd prob just wave the white flag :lol

[T Park]

Spurs DO need another big because they usually get nothing from the Elson/Oberto combination. Funny how the Spurs migrated to these two because they wanted to have more lineup flexibility in a small-ball scenario. Now the size and strength they got rid of is now what they need again.


Like TIMVP said, it became 2003 overnight

[whottt]

What world did I step into where the Suns are bigger and stronger than the Spurs and whottt is advocating Bonner over Horry?

This Shaq trade just missed up the universe's equalibrium.

:dizzy

I don't like Horry against Shaq or the Lakers...he's proven to be unHorry like against them.

[hsxvvd]

Udoka can take Stoudamire.

Ok, he's smaller, but he's a shitload smarter!

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

More like Amare probably grew up idolizing Shaq...in fact I'm pretty sure I've heard him say that before.
And Shaq acknowledged that Amare reminds him of a mini-version of himself.

[whottt]

All I can say, is the fucker better not choke like he did in 06 vs the damn Mavericks.


Doesn't matter if he takes no shots or makes no shots...he doesn't get doubled off of, especially by Mike D'Antoni, that alone makes Duncan's job easier.


Unlike Hedo.



See a different game.

[timvp]

Spurs DO need another big because they usually get nothing from the Elson/Oberto combination. Funny how the Spurs migrated to these two because they wanted to have more lineup flexibility in a small-ball scenario. Now the size and strength they got rid of is now what they need again.Yeah, the Spurs evolved to handle small ball. Now unless Webber or Shaq go down injured, small ball is dead. Time to evolve back into real basketball again.

[T Park]

I guarantee you after this news, Pop is not sleeping well.

[marini martini]

I don't like Horry against Shaq or the Lakers...he's proven to be unHorry like against them.


Hi Whott! :toast

[E20]

Everyone is being too pessimistic. Shaq will be a bust and not pan out and everybody look back and laugh at this thread. As far as making the Suns more tight knit, then :tu. Marion was the only one on the Suns team with inside turmoil of trade talks.

[T Park]

Yeah, the Spurs evolved to handle small ball. Now unless Webber or Shaq go down injured, small ball is dead. Time to evolve back into real basketball again.

Is Pop doing this?

:elephant


WTF does this mean for Udoka?

No more small ball. They pretty much got him for the reason of small ball did they not?

[hsxvvd]

Shaq and Stoudamire = Curry and Randolph

Not enough room for them both.

[E20]

Are Spurs fans seriously worried about Old man Shaq and the artist formely known as choke this time with bad knees? :lol The Warriors and Suns are good teams nonetheless, but these acquistions don't put them over the top against the Spurs. (healthy that is)

[J.T.]

Everyone is being too pessimistic. Shaq will be a bust and not pan out and everybody look back and laugh at this thread. As far as making the Suns more tight knit, then :tu. Marion was the only one on the Suns team with inside turmoil of trade talks.

Quit thinking of Shaq in terms of Apollo Creed in Rocky IV.

It's called the Randy Moss effect. Trade a guy from a team that sucks to a team that's good and suddenly he wants to play again.

[hsxvvd]

I've hated small ball, I've wanted Pop to play real basketball again, but he is clearly a genius... it's the perfect remedy!

Dallas is still my only real concern.

[whottt]

Everyone is being too pessimistic. Shaq will be a bust and not pan out and everybody look back and laugh at this thread. As far as making the Suns more tight knit, then :tu. Marion was the only one on the Suns team with inside turmoil of trade talks.


It's not a case of pessimism...it's a case of a bunch of asshats laughing about the Suns aquiring Shaq fucking O'neal...like it's a fucking joke or something.


Just the fact that the Suns fans think it was a stupid trade should tell you that it was a good one.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Are Spurs fans seriously worried about Old man Shaq and the artist formely known as choke this time with bad knees? :lol The Warriors and Suns are good teams nonetheless, but these acquistions don't put them over the top against the Spurs.
Well his presence alone is something to account for, just because he's so big...even if he's ailing and gimpy, or doesn't take the same amount of shots.

But yeah, I don't know why it bothers some Spurs fans, we've beaten Shaq who's had a good squad around before.
Shaq and Amare get into foul trouble enough as it is, more free throws for us. :hungry:

[T Park]

Just the fact that the Suns fans think it was a stupid trade should tell you that it was a good one.

Hollinger thinking it was bad was what flipped me.

[T Park]

Shaq and Stoudamire = Curry and Randolph

Not enough room for them both.


Only problem is neither Randolph or Curry want to win.

Shaq is dying to win again.

[sabar]

If Udoka was a couple inches taller we could counter with small ball (ironic seeing how it's now going extinct). I mean, if we got no defensive big man.

[timvp]

Is Pop doing this?

:elephant


WTF does this mean for Udoka?

No more small ball. They pretty much got him for the reason of small ball did they not?There are still some small ball remnants out there but overall I'd say the ability to be able to guard against small ball just get a whole lot less important over the last week. The Lakers version of small ball with Odom at PF was hard for the Spurs to guard, as well.

I just hope Pop doesn't think the Spurs should become the small ball team . . .

[E20]

Quit thinking of Shaq in terms of Apollo Creed in Rocky IV.

It's called the Randy Moss effect. Trade a guy from a team that sucks to a team that's good and suddenly he wants to play again.
:lol

Nash would have to feed Shaq the ball with a baby bottle for him to be effective. Then everyone elses game goes down. Does Shaq honestly demand a constant double team every possesion any more? No. If you've seen Heat games players are not afraid of guarding him 1 on 1 anymore. Also, wasn't Shaq motivated in Miami too? As I said, people are overthinking this and Shaq will not pan out and be a bust. BOOK IT.

[T Park]

This really really plays into Shaq being motivated due to 1 thing.

Ego.

If he takes the Suns to the Finals and wins, this would put him over in people's minds over Wilt and Russel due to taking 3 different teams to rings, 1 obscure new one, and 1 who was sitting dead and never had a chance.

Another reason for Shaq to be motivated. Stroke the ego...

[baseline bum]

I'm against this trade only because the Spurs completely owned the Suns, and Phoenix couldn't have possibly been an easier matchup.

Still, O'Neal's 36, fat, lazy, and done. This last year and a half has been such a downward spiral for Shaq that I'm not that concerned with this deal. If Parker is healthy, he'll murder O'Neal on the pick and roll. If Tony's not healthy, it doesn't matter because the Spurs aren't getting through Dallas, Detroit, or Boston without him.

I want to see Duncan send Shaq's fat ass off into retirement, and I've been wanting a rematch for 4 years now.

[T Park]

I just hope Pop doesn't think the Spurs should become the small ball team

You don't think Pop is excited to going back to bruiser big man basketball again? :lol

[T Park]

I'm against this trade only because the Spurs completely owned the Suns, and Phoenix couldn't have possibly been an easier matchup.

Still, O'Neal's 36, fat, lazy, and done. This last year and a half has been such a downward spiral for Shaq that I'm not that concerned with this deal. If Parker is healthy, he'll murder O'Neal on the pick and roll. If Tony's not healthy, it doesn't matter because the Spurs aren't getting through Dallas, Detroit, or Boston without him.

I want to see Duncan send Shaq's fat ass off into retirement, and I've been wanting a rematch for 4 years now.


RABID!!


Errr

Right on :lol

[whottt]

This really really plays into Shaq being motivated due to 1 thing.

Ego.

If he takes the Suns to the Finals and wins, this would put him over in people's minds over Wilt and Russel due to taking 3 different teams to rings, 1 obscure new one, and 1 who was sitting dead and never had a chance.

Another reason for Shaq to be motivated. Stroke the ego...


I think Shaq clearly sees Tim Duncan as his main career rival(and I'm sure Duncan feels the same)...I don't think there's any doubt about it that he wants to break the tie with Duncan.



What pisses me off is that I could have used the Heat missing the playoffs this season in Drob VS Shaq arguments for evermore....

[baseline bum]

Hollinger thinking it was bad was what flipped me.

Hollinger also had the Spurs pegged as the champs last year when everyone was fellating Dallas and Phoenix for their dominant regular season win totals.

[timvp]

Just the fact that the Suns fans think it was a stupid trade should tell you that it was a good one.:lmao

And yeah, with Hollinger against this trade, that is another reason to be worried.

I can guarantee you that Pop is somewhere getting drunk off his azz and pissed off that Shaq became relevant again. Going against Shaq is a nightmare for everyone involved. Even this version of Shaq.

Fans can laugh at this trade but no one else in the Western Conference will think it's very funny.

[RashoFan]

Busy thread tonight! Just saw the news on Yahoo, sounds like a done deal...

[T Park]

An[QUOTE]d yeah, with Hollinger against this trade, that is another reason to be worried

You being concerned made me pase.

Hollinger being against it made me throw up in my mouth a little.

[T Park]

Hollinger also had the Spurs pegged as the champs last year when everyone was fellating Dallas and Phoenix for their dominant regular season win totals.

Yeah he got lucky.

[whottt]

I hope you guys are right and that Shaq is truly done...

I see him being unmotivated during the regular season(and he was this way even with the LakerS)...

I see him not getting the ball as much.


I see him getting older...


What I don't see, is him being a joke, especially when added to a team that has Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire on it.

[Kori Ellis]

“If we don’t see anything we think will help us, we won’t do it,” Popovich said, “But I’m not prepared to say, like I did last year at this point, there will be no trade.”

[T Park]

I can guarantee you that Pop is somewhere getting drunk off his azz and pissed off that Shaq became relevant again

Google 24 whine bars in DC and get a webcam for that place and you'll see a trenchcoated sunglassed gray haired man barking out "MORE SHIRAZ YOU BASTARDS"

[T Park]

“If we don’t see anything we think will help us, we won’t do it,” Popovich said, “But I’m not prepared to say, like I did last year at this point, there will be no trade.”



Shit Pop might make a trade.

Or he might not.

Fuckin pop...

[E20]

I bet Pop is happy, the Soviet Union is back up and running.

[timvp]

I hope you guys are right and that Shaq is truly done...

I see him being unmotivated during the regular season(and he was this way even with the LakerS)...

I see him not getting the ball as much.


I see him getting older...


What I don't see, is him being a joke, especially when added to a team that has Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire on it.Yeah, it's hard for me to call a bigman done when he had Jason Williams and Dr. Quinn as his point guards.

Shaq is going to get more easy looks in his first week with Nash than he had gotten in the last year with the Heat.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'm against this trade only because the Spurs completely owned the Suns, and Phoenix couldn't have possibly been an easier matchup.

Still, O'Neal's 36, fat, lazy, and done. This last year and a half has been such a downward spiral for Shaq that I'm not that concerned with this deal. If Parker is healthy, he'll murder O'Neal on the pick and roll. If Tony's not healthy, it doesn't matter because the Spurs aren't getting through Dallas, Detroit, or Boston without him.

I want to see Duncan send Shaq's fat ass off into retirement, and I've been wanting a rematch for 4 years now.
I like that the teams are adjusting to account for Duncan's Spurs. In 2007, some of the wins and matches were very underwhelming. Even the Suns, as much as they gave a hard fight, we still had the edge even in that series...Too bad that fact got lost amongst the Horry controversy...which gave the Suns fans (And Suns themselves) an excuse for their denial that they can't beat us without a post-presence.

Hopefully, we'll have a little luck in our favor, mixed in with Spurs Basketball, to really earn a repeat...I really don't know how this season will pan out.

[timvp]

Shit Pop might make a trade.

Or he might not.

Fuckin pop...:lol Exactly. Pop saying he might make a trade might mean he has sent RC to Europe to scout for the draft and disconnected the phone line.

[SoSoSharp]

No offense, guys, but the Spurs were the beneficiaries of some questionable officiating throughout the Phoenix series. Are the Spurs a better team? Probably. But I don't necessarily think they beat the Suns, on a legitimately even playing field.

For the Western playoff teams, I wouldn't be that worried though. Shaq cannot turn his game on when playoff time comes, anymore. He's injured, half the time, anyway.

[E20]

If the Spurs meet the Suns in the PO's, Spurs will sweep them. I'm willing to bet pink status on this for 3 months.

But one thing is for sure PO Shaq > PO Marion, because a PO Marion is a cardboard cut out.

[baseline bum]

Shaq has no lift whatsoever anymore. He's a shell of his former self. I get that Phoenix had to do something with Marion's sorry ass, but I don't see where this guy's going to help. O'Neal has never played defense, and now he couldn't even if he wanted to. The motivation may be there, but he's shot physically. He's at best 1/5 of the player he was when he was winning titles in LA.

This reminds me of the Rockets getting Barkley back in the day, once he was way past his prime and could only shoot threes and hold the ball for 10-15 seconds in the post.

The sick athleticism that made Shaq such a force from 93-04 is gone, and it ain't coming back.

[T Park]

No offense, guys, but the Spurs were the beneficiaries of some questionable officiating throughout the Phoenix series. Are the Spurs a better team? Probably. But I don't necessarily think they beat the Suns, on a legitimately even playing field.


WTF?!?!!?


haq has no lift whatsoever anymore. He's a shell of his former self. I get that Phoenix had to do something with Marion's sorry ass, but I don't see where this guy's going to help. O'Neal has never played defense, and now he couldn't even if he wanted to. The motivation may be there, but he's shot physically. He's at best 1/4 of the player he was when he was winning titles in LA.


Yeah that makes sense.

Unfortunately, like they said, he might have looked like that due to non motivation and might look better now revived with the Suns.

[SoSoSharp]

I don't expect to get a good reception for my opinions on a Spurs board, I'm just stating the general consensus outside of San Antonio. Just consider that Tim Donaghy was associated with that game.

[timvp]

I like that the teams are adjusting to account for Duncan's Spurs. I truly think Kerr saw the Spurs suck and still beat the Suns and that was the end of the small ball era in the NBA. He knew that the Suns weren't beating the Spurs in the playoffs ... so he went out and got the one player who has single-handedly beaten the Spurs in the Duncan era.

Adding Shaq and getting rid of Marion was a great idea. It might not pan out but I just gained a lot of respect for Kerr. He could have easily lived with status quo and gone out in the WCF like usual. But he instead decided to swing for the fences.

[T Park]

I don't expect to get a good reception for my opinions on a Spurs board, I'm just stating the general consensus outside of San Antonio. Just consider that Tim Donaghy was associated with that game.


Your opinions arent whats not liked.

Thinking your opinions are fact and them being full of shit is what will get you laughed out of here.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't expect to get a good reception for my opinions on a Spurs board, I'm just stating the general consensus outside of San Antonio. Just consider that Tim Donaghy was associated with that game.

What was the point of listing your favorite team as the Spurs? :lol

[T Park]

Adding Shaq and getting rid of Marion was a great idea. It might not pan out but I just gained a lot of respect for Kerr. He could have easily lived with status quo and gone out in the WCF like usual. But he instead decided to swing for the fences.


Exactly, and if it don't work, he can say "Well Shaq isn't healthy and we had to move Shawn for chemistry sake"

Kerr either way comes out smelling like a rose.

[Don Quixote]

Let's not overreact here. Seriously.

Phoenix, who was a pretender to the title, traded a very good player ... for Shaq. A washed-up, out-of-shape, injured Shaq. How's that going to help Phoenix? Not much.

The last thing the Spurs need to do is try to match up with those clowns in Phoenix. This talk of going out and getting centers who can guard Shaq is ridiculous. It's not 2000 anymore. We'll take em with who we've got. We've beaten Phoenix before, and you can be sure we'll beat them again.

I repeat: Phoenix will never, and I mean never, win a title as long as the Spurs are good. It doesn't matter who they trot out at center.

[Manudona]

What was the point of listing your favorite team as the Spurs? :lol

He is so-so sharp

[SoSoSharp]

I never said they were fact, I said that that is what people generally think outside of San Antonio. I am neither a San Antonio fan, nor a Phoenix fan, here. You can't respectfully disagree with me, that's fine, but don't tell me that I'm "full of shit," because I cast a dissenting opinion.

[timvp]

Shaq has no lift whatsoever anymore. He's a shell of his former self. I get that Phoenix had to do something with Marion's sorry ass, but I don't see where this guy's going to help. O'Neal has never played defense, and now he couldn't even if he wanted to. The motivation may be there, but he's shot physically. He's at best 1/5 of the player he was when he was winning titles in LA.

This reminds me of the Rockets getting Barkley back in the day, once he was way past his prime and could only shoot threes and hold the ball for 10-15 seconds in the post.

The sick athleticism that made Shaq such a force from 93-04 is gone, and it ain't coming back.I hope you're right. But a desperate and motivated Shaq still worries me. I've never seen him play desperate before.

[T Park]

Don Quixote, that thinking is what killed the Spurs in 06 I'm afraid....

[SoSoSharp]

What was the point of listing your favorite team as the Spurs? :lol

Maybe I don't have a favorite team? Maybe I just happen to be a basketball fan, and "Spurs" was the default option?

[T Park]

I never said they were fact, I said that that is what people generally think outside of San Antonio. I am neither a San Antonio fan, nor a Phoenix fan, here. You can't respectfully disagree with me, that's fine, but don't tell me that I'm "full of shit," because I cast a dissenting opinion.

HOnestly,

what anyone thinks OUTSIDE of San Antonio?

Doesn't friggen matter.


You didn't cast a dissenting opinion.

You said the SPurs won due to partial officiating.

Thats not giving an opinion, thats acting like it was a fact.

[Kori Ellis]

Maybe I don't have a favorite team? Maybe I just happen to be a basketball fan, and "Spurs" was the default option?

Or maybe you are just an obvious troll.

Maybe.

[baseline bum]

WTF?!?!!?



Yeah that makes sense.

Unfortunately, like they said, he might have looked like that due to non motivation and might look better now revived with the Suns.

Motivation doesn't affect how high you can jump or how quick your moves are. What made Shaq great in the day was how quickly he could spin on someone; how fast he'd get up and throw it down; how he was always a threat on the alley-oop because no one could recover in time from his spin and his ability to outjump any other bigman by a ridiculous margin.

None of that is there anymore. His agility. His speed. His quick jump. His height on his jump... all gone. Even his mouth is gone.

[T Park]

Maybe I don't have a favorite team? Maybe I just happen to be a basketball fan, and "Spurs" was the default option?

Or your living in your mother's basement bored and looking for attention.

[T Park]

Motivation doesn't affect how high you can jump or how quick your moves are. What made Shaq great in the day was how quickly he could spin on someone; how fast he'd get up and throw it down; how he was always a threat on the alley-oop because no one could recover in time from his spin and his ability to outjump any other bigman by a ridiculous margin.

None of that is there anymore. His agility. His speed. His quick jump. His height on his jump... all gone.


He can still muscle and shove Oberto and Elson out of the way and get a layup.

[SoSoSharp]

I said they benefited, don't twist my words.

Amare has ALWAYS given Tim Duncan trouble. He is the greatest power forward to ever play, he is one of the greatest low post defenders to ever play, but Amare is very fast, and very athletic, two things that aren't necessarily strengths for Timmy at this stage in his career.

[E20]

I hope you're right. But a desperate and motivated Shaq still worries me. I've never seen him play desperate before.
Whoever said he was desperate/motivated? This is the same jargon that has came out every year for the past 3-4 seasons and in the end is proven to be just talk. As of now Shaq has played the complete opposite, even with this newly found desperation/motivation that he has found for the umpteenth time, Shaq is GREATLY hindered by injuries and age, as well as 400lbs of unneccassary weight on him, Baseline_Bum said it best when he said that Shaq is 1/20th of the player he is.

[T Park]

I said they benefited, don't twist my words.

Amare has ALWAYS given Tim Duncan trouble. He is the greatest power forward to ever play, he is one of the greatest low post defenders to ever play, but Amare is very fast, and very athletic, two things that aren't necessarily strengths for Timmy at this stage in his career.


Benefited means helped :lol

You think the refs were biased twords the Spurs, wich if you watched games 2 and 4 you would say otherwise.

So Amare is a tough matchup on offense.

So what.

[SoSoSharp]

Or your living in your mother's basement bored and looking for attention.

Jeeeeesus Christ, okay okay, sorry sorry. I'm not trying to diss your favorite team, I'm just saying, this is what I've seen. Take it for what it is, disagree with it, or whatever, but there's really no need to thrash me for not agreeing with the status quo on this board. I'm not insulting any of you guys.

[T Park]

Whoever said he was desperate/motivated.

Going to Phoenix and being dubbed the savior is motivation.

[duncan228]

But a desperate and motivated Shaq still worries me. I've never seen him play desperate before.

That's a scary thought.

I don't think he has much left, but if he can rise up just enough it could get scary.

[T Park]

Jeeeeesus Christ, okay okay, sorry sorry. I'm not trying to diss your favorite team, I'm just saying, this is what I've seen. Take it for what it is, disagree with it, or whatever, but there's really no need to thrash me for not agreeing with the status quo on this board. I'm not insulting any of you guys.


There is no status quo.

Your coming in here trying to act like some know it all by spouting BS.

Your insulting our intelligence by saying that the refs had a hand in the series.

[T Park]

TIMVP, quick thought.

If there WAS, wich I don't think there was. A deal on the table for Tyrus Thomas.

Does it get made now to where Thomas can guard Stoudamire, Duncan Shaq.

Quick Question

[baseline bum]

Enough with arguing with the dumbass troll. Nothing worse than a good thread being hijacked by some jerk-off whining about the Suns losing.

[T Park]

Baseline, how would you defend the Suns now.

Oberto or Elson on Shaq?

Or Finley on Stoudamire and Duncan on Shaq?

[E20]

Baseline, how would you defend the Suns now.

Oberto or Elson on Shaq?

Or Finley on Stoudamire and Duncan on Shaq?
:lol

Amare would have a field day.

[SoSoSharp]

Alright, I should clarify, the entire Spurs/Suns series last year was poorly officiated, including games 2 and 4, which favored the Suns. However, it is my personal opinion, and the opinion of many others, that the Suns could very well have won that series. The Spurs being the best team is far from being a cut and dried issue.

As for my point about Amare...he is the focal point of the Suns' offense. If they play their cards right, they can use him to beat the Spurs, regardless of their very small lineup. Steve Nash is possibly the most annoying player to deal with in terms of team defense, as much because of his crafty scoring as his passing. These things can help the Suns overcome a small lineup, though I feel that they lack the tools to deal with a Spurs team that is playing up to their standard.

[z0sa]

Or your living in your mother's basement bored and looking for attention.

don't you consider that a little low?

and I'm happy shaq's in phoenix. Whatever's left in the tank will be gone by halftime of the first game he plays in.

[SoSoSharp]

My god, what is wrong with you people *sigh*. This is why you don't join fan boards, I guess.

[T Park]

Amare would have a field day.

For some reason Finley guards him well.

No one knows why.

[baseline bum]

Oberto on O'Neal, Duncan on Stoudemire.

[T Park]

look at me

[E20]

Suns line up:
Nash = defended by Bowen
Bell = defended by Parker
Hill = defended by Fin/whoever is starting SG
Amare = defended by Elson/Oberto
Shaq = defended by Duncan

Amare is quicker than Duncan, Shaq OTOH is slower than a bumble of hay, Duncan would have no trouble staying in front and if he needs help on the post, then Duncan needs to hit the weights, because he should be able to hold his own on Grandpa Snack.

[DazedAndConfused]

Some interesting facts about the deal..........

1.) It's not a straight up Shaq for Marion trade. It's Marion+Banks for Shaq+Miami's 1st this year
2.) PHX actually saves money by offloading Marion's 17 million and Bank's 4.1 million dollar contracts.

If Miami keeps tanking at the rate they that pick could be VERY valuable and PHX could wind up with a good piece to add to their team.

[timvp]

TIMVP, quick thought.

If there WAS, wich I don't think there was. A deal on the table for Tyrus Thomas.

Does it get made now to where Thomas can guard Stoudamire, Duncan Shaq.

Quick QuestionAs the West continues to get bigger and bigger, the need for a player like Thomas diminishes. Yeah, I'd like him still but he's starting to look like a further off prospect. With Shaq in the West, expect everyone to again get bigger. Even if Shaq is as done as Baseline Bum says, teams aren't going to take that chance.

[T Park]

Oberto on O'Neal, Duncan on Stoudemire.

Thats what I said.

TIMVP countered saying the last time Oberto guarded him, Oberto got sat out for two weeks.

[T Park]

1.) It's not a straight up Shaq for Marion trade. It's Marion+Banks for Shaq+Miami's 1st this year


Whoa whoa whoa whoa hold the phone.

The Suns could have the possibility of having the first pick in the draft?


The fuckin Heat got assraped.

[T Park]

The drafting of Splitter looks genius now.

He will fit in perfectly in the new west.

Shame they could've have brought him over this year.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I truly think Kerr saw the Spurs suck and still beat the Suns and that was the end of the small ball era in the NBA. He knew that the Suns weren't beating the Spurs in the playoffs ... so he went out and got the one player who has single-handedly beaten the Spurs in the Duncan era.

Adding Shaq and getting rid of Marion was a great idea. It might not pan out but I just gained a lot of respect for Kerr. He could have easily lived with status quo and gone out in the WCF like usual. But he instead decided to swing for the fences.
Oh I know, gotta respect Kerr for not standing pat. I don't think this was a dumb move at all, just a bit unpredictable, but I'm sure the Suns lockerroom is a little happier to have Marion's whining ass out. It's already enough to screw with chemistry, knowing one guy's unhappy with trivial things like praise.

[timvp]

Thats what I said.

TIMVP countered saying the last time Oberto guarded him, Oberto got sat out for two weeks.Oberto can't guard Shaq. Oberto can't guard Shaq three years from now. I've seen Oberto try to guard Shaq three times. Twice Oberto go hurt, the other time Shaq scored every time he touched the ball against him.

[baseline bum]

Thats what I said.

TIMVP countered saying the last time Oberto guarded him, Oberto got sat out for two weeks.

You're going to lose that matchup, but now the Spurs get their defense set a lot more often with the Suns being much weaker on the break. I'd like to get another bigman for the bench at the deadline, but I've wanted that all along.

[timvp]

Some interesting facts about the deal..........

1.) It's not a straight up Shaq for Marion trade. It's Marion+Banks for Shaq+Miami's 1st this yearLink? If that's the case the Suns just made their best trade in franchise history.

[sabar]

That pick has to be protected I'd imagine.

[E20]

Let's see:

Nash = No defense
Bell = Defense
Hill = No defense
Amare = No defense
Shaq = no defense

Even if Shaq poses a nightmare threat on the O, the Spurs should put up 1000 points a night against a 1 on 5 man D.

[T Park]

Agreed with Sabar, that pick HAS to be, if there is one, lottery protected.

If its not, I would fire Riley immediately.

[T Park]

Shaq = no defense

Even if Shaq is poses a nightmare threat, the Spurs should put up 1000 points a nigh


The days of high scoring in Phoenix are over.

Shaq can play defense.

[baseline bum]

Some interesting facts about the deal..........

1.) It's not a straight up Shaq for Marion trade. It's Marion+Banks for Shaq+Miami's 1st this year
2.) PHX actually saves money by offloading Marion's 17 million and Bank's 4.1 million dollar contracts.

If Miami keeps tanking at the rate they that pick could be VERY valuable and PHX could wind up with a good piece to add to their team.

You have a link? That would be insanely stupid for Miami to give up a shot at Derrick Rose for a 30 year-old ingrate like Marion.

[E20]

You mean give Riley a raise. Booting an aging Shaq and saving 60 mil, all while getting a decent PG and Marion.

[timvp]

The best option against Shaq on the Spurs is probably *gulp* Francisco Elson. Elson wouldn't be able to stop Shaq very often but he'd at least make him run.

Horry and Oberto seem to be scared of Shaq. Seriously.