Trade Idea: Barry and Elson for Kurt Thomas

[Holt's Cat]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_kurt_thomas.jpghttp://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/sonics_logo.gif

Kurt Thomas | PF/C
Born: Oct 4, 1972
Height: 6-9 / 2,06
Weight: 235 lbs. / 106,6 kg.
College: Texas Christian
Years Pro: 12

Info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kurt_thomas/index.html)

Would allow Seattle to shed some payroll with Thomas' salary in the vicinity of $9 million for 2008-09, the last year of his contract. Barry was a popular player during his time in Seattle. Thomas makes sense for the Spurs as he gives them a better rebounding big up front with TD and someone who can knock down the 18 foot jumper.

[T Park]

YES YES YES

:elephant :elephant :elephant

[phyzik]

1 1/2 towers is better than what we currently got.... pull the trigger on this trade!

[Extra Stout]

He 35... this matches the Shaq and (stillborn) Kidd moves.

[Holt's Cat]

He 35... this matches the Shaq and (stillborn) Kidd moves.


Though without moving any significant rotation players. Plus this would be a clear net positive for the Spurs for this season.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

He's also a pretty good post defender who did a good job 1 on 1 against Tim last year. If nothing else a trade like this would keep him out of enemy hands, but he'd be an upgrade on defense over Oberto or Elson if we have to play LA and/or Phoenix.

Although if this were to happen I'm sure we'd be swamped with Lakers fans calling making a deal with Presti collusion.

[Joe Schmoogins]

I do not want Tim Thomas here... I just don't like the guy. Just my opinion. Never liked him, don't want him in the silver and black... however, I'd love to see wilcox here instead. He's got a significantly smaller contract as well.

[Holt's Cat]

Wilcox wouldn't be available for Barry+Elson.

[Mr. Body]

I'd go for that. My wife, the Knicks fan, would love it. She calls him and his crazy eyes "Psycho Killer".

[T Park]

I do not want Tim Thomas here... I just don't like the guy. Just my opinion. Never liked him, don't want him in the silver and black... however, I'd love to see wilcox here instead. He's got a significantly smaller contract as well.


So don't bring in someone that improves the team just because "you don't like him"

Come on.

[tav1]

Short term, this would be a positive trade, no doubt. Long term, I would prefer Haslam or Tyrus Thomas. But if we could land Kurt Thomas, then fine.

I wonder if Thomas would resign with us at vet minumum, or inexpensively, next season. If that were the case I think the Spurs would jump at this. I'm actually surprised that Thomas hasn't been moved yet--Presti must be holding out until the last minute to see what he can get.

Also, if the Spurs can find a taker for Bonner then I think they should move him too, even if only for an expiring deal. In theory, Bonner should be a good fit with the Spurs. But he simply hasn't worked on the court and Pop has straight Benoed him the last month. That's a bad sign. I'm rooting for Bonner (BYC) to NY for Balkman, but I know we're not playing fantasy sports here. Still, it makes some sense for both teams.

[Joe Schmoogins]

So don't bring in someone that improves the team just because "you don't like him"

Come on.


I don't like him, but I also don't think he improves us.

[remingtonbo2001]

Unless we can get a piece with potential and semi-youth (mid-late 20's), I don't see much value in packaging Barry. I think he's still of some value to the diversity of this team. If this is the best trade we can materalize, I'd rather stand pat.

[Holt's Cat]

Short term, this would be a positive trade, no doubt. Long term, I would prefer Haslam or Tyrus Thomas. But if we could land Kurt Thomas, then fine.

I wonder if Thomas would resign with us at vet minumum, or inexpensively, next season. If that were the case I think the Spurs would jump at this. I'm actually surprised that Thomas hasn't been moved yet--Presti must be holding out until the last minute to see what he can get.

Some sites say Thomas is a free agent this summer, others say he has a year remaining. If he is a free agent this summer, all the more better. Spurs would probably have to include a pick in the deal then.



Also, if the Spurs can find a taker for Bonner then I think they should move him too, even if only for an expiring deal. In theory, Bonner should be a good fit with the Spurs. But he simply hasn't worked on the court and Pop has straight Benoed him the last month. That's a bad sign. I'm rooting for Bonner (BYC) to NY for Balkman, but I know we're not playing fantasy sports here. Still, it makes some sense for both teams.

Yeah, it is worrisome that Bonner is riding the bench as of late. Sure, Horry's back, but you would think he could beat out someone for PT.

[Holt's Cat]

Unless we can get a piece with potential and semi-youth (mid-late 20's), I don't see much value in packaging Barry. I think he's still of some value to the diversity of this team. If this is the best trade we can materalize, I'd rather stand pat.

You have to address needs. The Spurs' bigman rotation is weaker than their swingman rotation. The value of having a solid 4th big is greater than having a solid 4th 2 or 3.

[T Park]

I don't like him, but I also don't think he improves us.


I agree.

The Spurs don't need a good defensive bigman that can rebound and knock down the open jumper.

They are LOADED with em!!

[Mr. Body]

Also, if the Spurs can find a taker for Bonner then I think they should move him too, even if only for an expiring deal. In theory, Bonner should be a good fit with the Spurs. But he simply hasn't worked on the court and Pop has straight Benoed him the last month. That's a bad sign. I'm rooting for Bonner (BYC) to NY for Balkman, but I know we're not playing fantasy sports here. Still, it makes some sense for both teams.

I still hit my forehead over that Bonner resigning. Way too much money, waaay too many years. He's a nice guy but just not good. Strictly end-of-the-bench material (which is where he is right now).

New York won't trade for him. Isiah doesn't like white guys. Seriously. Just David Lee, he tolerates, but barely.

No one else will trade for Bonner, except in a trade for another asset.

Boy, did we screw up that one. Traded Nesterovic for expiring contracts in Eric Williams and Matt Bonner AND THEN WE RESIGNED ONE OF THEM. What a boneheaded move.

[Holt's Cat]

Well, they resigned one at $2 mil per. Not a major travesty. With Horry back it's inevitable that Bonner's minutes would be cut.

The larger issue is the Scola move, but that's been exhausted on here.

[Mr. Body]

Not a major travesty, but who's signing John Crotty for $2 million for three seasons? Besides, it's over $2.6 this season, practically $3 million next, and then one more after that.

[Holt's Cat]

A young big who can shoot the rock for $2 mil is not John Crotty.

[Mr. Body]

A 12th man who cannot play is John Crotty.

[The Truth #6]

This looks to be Barry's last season, but if he's healthy enough to come back I think we should keep him unless we get youth in exchange, yes, even taking a chance again on that dumbass in Denver or someone else with big potential.

If we're talking about trading Bonner then I'm all for it (sadly) because as history has shown (Malik, Beno) once a player goes in the doghouse this bad it rarely ends well. We have to trade him before his value drops anymore. We need to make some sort of move to improve and with Horry getting better with more minutes we just aren't going to see Bonner again unless there's an injury. But if there's another significant injury on the team our chances or the title this year are probably screwed anyway so there's no point in playing it safe. I still have confidence in Bonner's ability, I just don't have hope for him getting a chance again under Pop or for his confidence to somehow improve under these circumstances.

[Holt's Cat]

Besides, it's over $2.6 this season, practically $3 million next, and then one more after that.


What moves is that going to prevent? Plus, it's a bit too early to be writing his epitaph.

[Holt's Cat]

A 12th man who cannot play is John Crotty.


He can play, he has Horry in front of him.

[Mr. Body]

We got Udoka for $1 million and he's quite good. Nose for the ball. Heady defender. Does little things.

How did we not overpay for Bonner? Who was gonna spend anywhere near what we spent on him?

[Holt's Cat]

Wings are a dime a dozen in this league and Udoka is still a bit raw. It's still a big man's league and big men who can walk and drink Gatorade at the same time get $30 mil contracts. There's nothing wrong with Bonner's contract and up until a month ago he was in the rotation. I'm not exactly seeing the reason for the drama here.

[Joe Schmoogins]

given the choice between thomas or jeff foster, I guess I'd rather have kurt thomas...

[remingtonbo2001]

You have to address needs. The Spurs' bigman rotation is weaker than their swingman rotation. The value of having a solid 4th big is greater than having a solid 4th 2 or 3.

I agree with you in spirit, but more or less, I just don't feel this trade really improves our chances signficantly. I like what Brent brings to the table.

Maybe Elson just needs to get laid. Who knows?

[T Park]

Or maybe ELson is a bad player.

It is what it is.

[mexicanjunior]

I would jump on this trade. Kurt Thomas would give the Spurs something they sorely need, someone to help Duncan on the glass. Oberto is inconsisten and the Elson/Bonner/Horry combo seems to have all kinds of problems keeping young athletic bigmen off the glass (especially the offensive glass). Poor Tim cannot block out the entire team by himself. Also, Thomas's 15-18 footer is more reliable than any of our bigs at the moment, which would really help our pick and roll offense.

[Ghost Writer]

Making this deal would preclude the Spurs from signing anyone decent this summer.

And it makes us older.

Not worth it.

[T Park]

The Spurs don't have cap room to sign anyone anyways.

[Holt's Cat]

I agree with you in spirit, but more or less, I just don't feel this trade really improves our chances signficantly. I like what Brent brings to the table.

Maybe Elson just needs to get laid. Who knows?


You do have Oberto and Horry who have shown themselves quite capable in big game situations, but I think having a 4th big like Thomas would be a significant improvement. Don't get me wrong, having Barry on the bench to throw in is a nice luxury. But the Spurs have been worked on the glass before and Thomas' combination of rebounding and his offensive game would fit in really well.

[Holt's Cat]

Making this deal would preclude the Spurs from signing anyone decent this summer.

How so? They aren't going under the cap this summer anyways. They'll still have their MLE regardless.




And it makes us older.


So what? Elson is younger and he sucks.

[Ghost Writer]

You mean even though Thomas wouldn't be off the books until '08-'09, that would not affect us this summer?

[Holt's Cat]

You mean even though Thomas wouldn't be off the books until '08-'09, that would not affect us this summer?


Correct. If his contract even lasts that long.

Horry's contract is coming off the books this summer, a fact that makes having another capable big around and available to sign/step into his role all the more important.

[T Park]

Not one bit.

The SPurs only have the LLE and the MLE.

Adding Kurt Thomas wouldn't do a thing.

[T Park]

Also this is pretty much would it would do for next year.

Duncan, Splitter, Thomas, Oberto, Bonner, Mahinmi.

The Spurs would have 6 bigs, and IMO 4 of them very good, with two wild cards.

[Ghost Writer]

I guess I admittedly don't get one aspect here.

Barry is attractive, because his contract comes off the books this summer.

Wouldn't we be better served to use that flexibility this summer to fill holes if we can't get a no-brainer upgrade in a trade now?

I must be missing something.

[pad300]

Making this deal would preclude the Spurs from signing anyone decent this summer.

And it makes us older.

Not worth it.

Why does this preclude us signing anyone decent in the summer. Thomas, Elson, and Barry all share one common factor. They are all expiring contracts this year...

[Ghost Writer]

Why does this preclude us signing anyone decent in the summer. Thomas, Elson, and Barry all share one common factor. They are all expiring contracts this year...
Um, because those guys would be traded to get Thomas and his contract is not up until 2008-09, right?

[T Park]

Wouldn't we be better served to use that flexibility this summer

With the raises in Parkers, Duncans, Manu's, and others contracts, its pretty much whiped out.

[Holt's Cat]

I guess I admittedly don't get one aspect here.

Barry is attractive, because his contract comes off the books this summer.

Wouldn't we be better served to use that flexibility this summer to fill holes if we can't get a no-brainer upgrade in a trade now?

I must be missing something.


The Spurs won't go under the cap with Barry, Horry, Elson, and Finley's contracts coming off the books.

That does reduce payroll significantly though.

Barry's contract is appealing to other teams because it would allow them to extricate themselves from contracts with year(s) left on them past this season, but, of course, the Spurs would have to be willing to take on those contracts.

[Ghost Writer]

Somebody needs to help me clear this confusion.

The idea is to trade Barry/Elson for Thomas with Thomas' contract being up in '09, right?

Question.

[Holt's Cat]

Somebody needs to help me clear this confusion.

The idea is to trade Barry/Elson for Thomas with Thomas' contract being up in '09, right?

Question.

See Cap, Salary.

[T Park]

The idea is to trade Barry/Elson for Thomas with Thomas' contract being up in '09, right?


I think the next time they would have significant cap room or a shot at it is 2010.

I more than likely am wrong at that, but this trade would be for improving the bigman situation significantly, giving you someone to guard Bynum and Shaq, and making the defense and rebounding better.

[Ghost Writer]

The Spurs won't go under the cap with Barry, Horry, Elson, and Finley's contracts coming off the books.

That does reduce payroll significantly though.

Barry's contract is appealing to other teams because it would allow them to extricate themselves from contracts with year(s) left on them past this season, but, of course, the Spurs would have to be willing to take on those contracts.
Oh, man.

So if I am hearing you right, then Barry coming off the books this summer won't give us enough flexibility to sign someone good, but it just may help another team either avoid the luxury tax or make a play at a star free agent.

If this is the case and the Spurs can't make a splashier trade for a shotblocking, younger PF or an athletic, young SF, then make the trade.

K. Thomas was always known as a hardworking, classy competitor and can rebound and defend the post quite well. He's not a bad scorer and won't kill us at the line, either.

Maybe most importantly is that he will make the "right" play... he's seasoned.

[Holt's Cat]

That's the idea.

[T Park]

K. Thomas was always known as a hardworking, classy competitor and can rebound and defend the post quite well. He's not a bad scorer and won't kill us at the line, either.

Maybe most importantly is that he will make the "right" play... he's seasoned.


Now your signin my tune Ghost.

I've been wanting to trade for Kurt Thomas for a while now.


If this trade was offered, the Spurs would be nuts to turn it down.

[Holt's Cat]

Maybe the Spurs will be able to find a better deal with some combination of Elson and Barry, I just don't see it. I think you look at vets with a year or two remaining on their contract who would be of use to the Spurs now. Maybe a team is out there who wants to get rid of a contract so bad that they will throw in a young talent, or even a pick.

The Gasol trade, if one can make sense of it, was based on the fact that Brown's contract is expiring, thereby relieving the Grizzlies of the remaining salary on Gasol's contract. Again, the Spurs could luck out and find themselves able to land better talent than what they are sending out.

[T Park]

Again, the Spurs could luck out and find themselves able to land better talent than what they are sending out

Barry and Udrih for Maggette was that type of trade and they turned it down.

So I really don't know anymore.

[Holt's Cat]

Barry and Udrih for Maggette was that type of trade and they turned it down.

So I really don't know anymore.


The only way the Spurs get themselves into that kind of situation is if they are willing to take back a really bad contract, so bad that a team is willing to give up a really good player for the cap flexibility (or lux tax reduction) that trade would create for them. Maybe that's available.

Shit, there's always the Knicks.

[T Park]

Yeah shame Zeke couldn't trade Lee and Balkman.

[Holt's Cat]

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4505433

:smokin

[Ghost Writer]

Barry and Udrih for Maggette was that type of trade and they turned it down.

So I really don't know anymore.
K. Thomas is borderline for me. I can rationalize it, because we'll be locked into him for just next year and can always dangle him in a trade as an expiring contract.

I was really hoping for a more impact player in a deal.

That said, if we don't make a trade, who's to say that the front office can get any decent this summer anyway?

Cap manuevarbility doesn't guarantee anything.

[Holt's Cat]

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4505450

Barry and Elson for Rose and Lee.

3 reasons:
1. Zeke's the GM.
2. It does reduce payroll.
3. Zeke's the GM.

[Ghost Writer]

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4505450

Barry and Elson for Rose and Lee.

3 reasons:
1. Zeke's the GM.
2. It does reduce payroll.
3. Zeke's the GM.
You told me long ago that NY Knicks don't care about the cap.

D. Lee is the lone hustler (not hustla) on that Popforsaken team.


I'll take K. Thomas. Who the Spurs gonna woo in the summer with exception? Nobody.

F' it.

[Holt's Cat]

You told me long ago that NY Knicks don't care about the cap.

D. Lee is the lone hustler (not hustla) on that Popforsaken team.


I'll take K. Thomas. Who the Spurs gonna woo in the summer with exception? Nobody.

F' it.


Maybe they care about payroll now. Hey, it's the Knicks. This would be a classic Isaiah move.

[T Park]

Barry and Elson for Malik and David Lee?

I'll personally drive Barry and Elson to the damn airport.


I was really hoping for a more impact player in a deal.


No one is gonna give the Spurs an impact player after the Spurs have won 3 in 5 years.


Kurt Thomas would make a HUGE impact on this team just from his defense, rebounding, and offense he can bring to the table.

[T Park]

Who the Spurs gonna woo in the summer with exception? Nobody

Corey Maggette, James Jones.

I don't have the list in front of me, but theres some interesting names.

[Holt's Cat]

The Spurs are in a position to be "Popportunistic" before the trade deadline. The Spurs have on the order of $15 million in expiring contracts (Elson+Barry = approx $9 million themselves). Teams seem to be willing to give up talent that is tied to bad contracts. The Spurs aren't set to be under the cap anytime soon. Plus, the championship window is now.

[T Park]

The Spurs have shown a resistance to accepting bad contracts before unfortunately.

[Ghost Writer]

Barry and Elson for Malik and David Lee?

I'll personally drive Barry and Elson to the damn airport.



No one is gonna give the Spurs an impact player after the Spurs have won 3 in 5 years.


Kurt Thomas would make a HUGE impact on this team just from his defense, rebounding, and offense he can bring to the table.
I don't think teams respect the Spurs that much or give a d@mn anymore.

It's a number game.

[Holt's Cat]

I don't think teams respect the Spurs that much or give a d@mn anymore.

It's a number game.


What? The Spurs are the defending champs and Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili aren't retiring anytime soon.

[Ghost Writer]

Corey Maggette, James Jones.

I don't have the list in front of me, but theres some interesting names.
Well, interest me then.

J. Jones hasn't distinguished himself in this League and Maggette is nice... when he plays.

Why does he remind me of D. Anderson and Q. Richardson before him?

[Holt's Cat]

Well, interest me then.

J. Jones hasn't distinguished himself in this League and Maggette is nice... when he plays.

Why does he remind me of D. Anderson and Q. Richardson before him?


Who's going to give the Spurs an All-Star for Francisco Elson?

[ss1986v2]

im not sure where everyone is getting their info, but from everything that i can gather, KT is an expiring contract. shamsports, storytellers, espn, even hoopshype lists him as an expiring contract. the only online source i can find that lists his contract as expiring next year is patricia benders site. and while she is usually pretty reliable, the overwhelming amount of evidence in the contrary is enough to sway me. seattle fans themselves believe/know KT to be a free agent this summer.

[Ghost Writer]

Who's going to give the Spurs an All-Star for Francisco Elson?
No one.

I am scoffing at holding out for the free agents mentioned so far.

I would trade for immediate veteran help with 2 or less years remaining

or

Wait until the summer and bring in a mix of potential and a veteran hole-filler.

[Holt's Cat]

No one.

I am scoffing at holding out for the free agents mentioned so far.

I would trade for immediate veteran help with 2 or less years remaining

or

Wait until the summer and bring in a mix of potential and a veteran hole-filler.


They will have the MLE and the LLE in the summer, so you're basically looking at a solid vet ala Barry back in 2004 at the MLE level and a younger guy like a Udoka at the LLE level.

[Ghost Writer]

They will have the MLE and the LLE in the summer, so you're basically looking at a solid vet ala Barry back in 2004 at the MLE level and a younger guy like a Udoka at the LLE level.
Like I said, if you trade and can't get an impact player, you better make it an established veteran that can help in the playoffs and who doesn't have a deal that goes past '09.

Otherwise, don't deal and get a young dude with potential and the typical veteran minimum hole-fillers this summer.

[Holt's Cat]

The main way to get potential is to draft it. Perhaps you can find someone like Jack available again, but that's somewhat rare.

[T Park]

J. Jones hasn't distinguished himself in this League

yeah hes only leading the league in 3 point %.

[Holt's Cat]

What the Spurs ought to do is find a situation in which they can find a team ready to move a contract for earlier cap relief and are willing to pay a 1st round pick to do it. That's what the Knicks did in the Rose-Mohammed trade a few years back and it worked out for them.

[Streakyshooter08]

Well, I would also do this trade. It would give the Spurs a solid low post defender who can knock down a jumpshot. He would help against LA, that is for sure.

If Splitter comes over this summer the Spurs would have a great frontline with:

Splitter/Thomas/ Oberto
TD/ Bonner/ Mahinmi

That is a lot of depth with experience and youth (and Duncan in between) :)

Add this with TP/ Manu/ Udoka/Bowen/Vaughn and you play to win it all again. There would be a little hole at the SG spot but they would have the MLE and LLE to close that gap. Well see what happens with the trading deadline only a week away...

[T Park]

It would be nice with the first rounder to find a good SG to get in the draft, but the Spurs knack of drafting is unfortunately not what it once was.

[Ghost Writer]

yeah hes only leading the league in 3 point %.
So what?

Didn't Bowen once?

[Ghost Writer]

What? The Spurs are the defending champs and Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili aren't retiring anytime soon.
I mean, I don't think GMs shy away from trading talent to anyone if the price is right.

Look at the trades this season to contenders!

[Streakyshooter08]

It would be nice with the first rounder to find a good SG to get in the draft, but the Spurs knack of drafting is unfortunately not what it once was.

That would great if it happens. It would be even better if the Spurs manage to trade up for the draft. I would really love to know what trade talks are going on right now...

[Holt's Cat]

So what?

Didn't Bowen once?


What is it that you have against Bowen?

[Ghost Writer]

What is it that you have against Bowen?
His age, his inability to hit FTs, his overrated defense, his lack of offensive skill set other than the baseline 3.

Let's stay on topic.

I'd do that Barry and Elson for Thomas trade.

We can trade Thomas next season if need-be.

[Ghost Writer]

It would be nice with the first rounder to find a good SG to get in the draft, but the Spurs knack of drafting is unfortunately not what it once was.
Bold talk for a homer.

The Spurs draft picks have resulted in terrific talent...


... for other teams.

[Holt's Cat]

Overrated D? Did you watch the Finals last year?

Unreal.

[T Park]

BUT LEBRON SCORED 25

Even though it took more shots than points scored to do it.

[ss1986v2]

We can trade Thomas next season if need-be.
except that hes a free agent this summer...

[T Park]

So what?

Didn't Bowen once?

Yeah, and thats a good thing.

[Streakyshooter08]

.

We can trade Thomas next season if need-be.

That would be another positive thing. He helps against the big men in the west this year and if he would really decline that fast you can ship him out next year when he has an expireing contract.

[yavozerb]

I really do not want a 1/2 year rental (like Thomas) who will take a while to even get into the rotation. What about a guy like Biedrens (warriors), guys like Bonner or Elson would do well in that system also with some draft picks. I just hate late season pick-ups of guys who are about to retire..

[Ghost Writer]

BUT LEBRON SCORED 25

Even though it took more shots than points scored to do it.
Who did you expect to shoot for the Cavs.

Or the Lakers pre-Gasol for that matter.

[Ghost Writer]

except that hes a free agent this summer...
I thought Thomas was up in '09?

[ss1986v2]

im not sure where everyone is getting their info, but from everything that i can gather, KT is an expiring contract. shamsports, storytellers, espn, even hoopshype lists him as an expiring contract. the only online source i can find that lists his contract as expiring next year is patricia benders site. and while she is usually pretty reliable, the overwhelming amount of evidence in the contrary is enough to sway me. seattle fans themselves believe/know KT to be a free agent this summer.

[yavozerb]

expiring contract 08...

[Ghost Writer]

expiring contract 08...
That changes everything.

[Holt's Cat]

That changes everything.


Not really, other than the Spurs would probably have to throw in a 2nd rounder.

[Streakyshooter08]

At the realgm board there is already speculation that KT might get tradet...

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?topic=761746

[MaNu4Tres]

I've never heard this trade proposal before.

[MaNu4Tres]

Who were the crazy idiots who were wanting the spurs to make this move a month ago? I remember a thread can someone refresh my memory. Tpark ? anybody?

[mikejones99]

fuck you and hell no

[Ghost Writer]

Not really, other than the Spurs would probably have to throw in a 2nd rounder.
Yeah and that Seattle would have no real motivation to bring back B. Barry, dumb@ss.

[bdictjames]

How about Bonner and Elson.

I think Barry is still a key for this team.

[Ghost Writer]

Why would SEA trade an expiring contract for expiring contracts, especially when they have more use for K. Thomas than the sh1t we'd be sending them?

Question.

[sabar]

Why would SEA trade an expiring contract for expiring contracts, especially when they have more use for K. Thomas than the sh1t we'd be sending them?

Question.And that's why this deal is a pipedream. No reason for Seattle to pull the trigger. Also, why would they want to make our team better?

[Holt's Cat]

So you send them a 2nd round pick for the remaining 30 games of Kurt Thomas' regular season. Plus why do the Sonics need Thomas now? If anything, they will want to suck worse heading into the lottery.

[Holt's Cat]

Since when are the Sonics gearing up for the playoffs? :wtf

[T Park]

Who were the crazy idiots who were wanting the spurs to make this move a month ago? I remember a thread can someone refresh my memory. Tpark ? anybody?


Crazy like a Fox.

Kurt Thomas would make this spurs team unbeatable.

[Holt's Cat]

So the Sonics end up with a 2nd round pick for Thomas and Elson to replace him in the frontcourt so they can suck worse. What is bad about this for them?

[T Park]

Yeah Elson would just ride the pine the rest of the season for them. He wouldn't see minute one behind Petro, Wilcox, and Swift.

[Ghost Writer]

So the Sonics end up with a 2nd round pick for Thomas and Elson to replace him in the frontcourt so they can suck worse. What is bad about this for them?
What's good about it for them?

A 2nd round pick?

[T Park]

Salary cap space, and the second round pick yes.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm reasonably convinced Thomas is signed through '09, so the trade makes sense for the Sonics.

[Ghost Writer]

Salary cap space, and the second round pick yes.
They'll have cap space by keeping Thomas until the summer.

So you wanna sell them on sh1t for a 2nd rounder.

And you have the nerve to get mad at me for grasping at straws.

[Ghost Writer]

I'm reasonably convinced Thomas is signed through '09, so the trade makes sense for the Sonics.
Can we get a definitive answer on this?

[T Park]

all the more reason for the Spurs do it.

Mahinmi Splitter come in replacing Elson and Horry

Thomas is added, Spurs get a good defensive minded good shooting big man and can leave Mahinmi in Austin for another year to develop or use him as trade bait.

[T Park]

They'll have cap space by keeping Thomas until the summer.

So you wanna sell them on sh1t for a 2nd rounder.

And you have the nerve to get mad at me for grasping at straws.


So getting nothing for Thomas > 2nd rounder?

Genius.

[Ghost Writer]

It's unlikely the Sonics will want to part with Kurt Thomas because they likely would receive young talent or draft picks in return, and Seattle already has six picks in this year's draft. Seattle needs veteran pieces to build a nucleus for a playoff contender, and as the starting center, Thomas has provided a much-needed inside presence defensively and on the boards.
"It's part of the business," Thomas said of the trade rumors. "I know you hear it all the time. But I've been around for a while, so it doesn't bother me.

"I haven't been a free agent for a while. It's just something I'll look to when this summer comes up and see what's best for Kurt and his family." -- Tacoma News Tribune

Just as I suspected.

Next.

[T Park]

It's unlikely the Sonics will want to part with Kurt Thomas because they likely would receive young talent or draft picks in return, and Seattle already has six picks in this year's draft. Seattle needs veteran pieces to build a nucleus for a playoff contender, and as the starting center, Thomas has provided a much-needed inside presence defensively and on the boards.


So Seattle is willing to let him walk for nothing when he signs with someone else and not have anyone to show for it?

I don't think Presti is this stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

Can we get a definitive answer on this?Not really.

I suppose throwing cash in the deal would pay for some moving trucks, though.

[Spurminator]

I'd give them a 1st rounder. Why not?

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, he refers to himself in the third person.

Now we have to trade for him.

[T Park]

:lol I just now caught that. He sounds like the dude from Seinfeld in the gym.

"Kurt likes that"

[T Park]

I'd give them a 1st rounder. Why not?

in 09? Sure.

This year? ehhhhhh, ok yeah.

[Holt's Cat]

:lol When Seattle makes the playoffs again Kurt Thomas will be dead. Stupid fucking Ghost falling for that quote.

[td4mvp21]

It's unlikely the Sonics will want to part with Kurt Thomas because they likely would receive young talent or draft picks in return, and Seattle already has six picks in this year's draft. Seattle needs veteran pieces to build a nucleus for a playoff contender, and as the starting center, Thomas has provided a much-needed inside presence defensively and on the boards.
"It's part of the business," Thomas said of the trade rumors. "I know you hear it all the time. But I've been around for a while, so it doesn't bother me.

"I haven't been a free agent for a while. It's just something I'll look to when this summer comes up and see what's best for Kurt and his family." -- Tacoma News Tribune

Just as I suspected.

Next.

On to Antoine Walker!

[Xylus]

If the Spurs get Kurt Thomas, I'm going to kill myself. Seriously, I'll put a knife to my throat and end it.

[LEN BIAS 4EVER]

if they throw in a couple trucks full of free Starbucks coupons for Spurs fans than I say give them a first rounder.

[T Park]

If the Spurs get Kurt Thomas, I'm going to kill myself. Seriously, I'll put a knife to my throat and end it.

Don't do that.

Other Suns fans that threaten the lives of players like the guy that had the fake bomb threat, they can go ahead and do that.

[Xylus]

Don't do that.

Other Suns fans that threaten the lives of players like the guy that had the fake bomb threat, they can go ahead and do that.
I won't do it, but it would be the sickest of all irony if you guys managed to get him.

[T Park]

Honestly it would be :lol

[m33p0]

couldn't we go after someone a bit.... ya know... younger?

also, splitter and ian coming in next season would make thomas redundant.

[T Park]

M33 find someone younger that a team is willing to trade a younger as good version of Kurt THomas, and listen to them laugh.

Kurt THomas is perfect for this team right now, and he would be just as good next year.

Splitter isn't gonna get heavy minutes, and Mahinmi isn't as good.

[SScarrJ]

Kurt is gone at the end of this year. Like TPark said why Wouldn't the Sonics trade his expiring salary for other expiring salaries plus a 2nd round pick. Throw in some cash and I'm pretty sure that deal would be easy to get done with Presti as the GM.

[genomefreak13]

Barry + Elson for Thomas...Spurs version of a block buster ruin the franchise trade. This will surely rock the league

[Ghost Writer]

It's unlikely the Sonics will want to part with Kurt Thomas because they likely would receive young talent or draft picks in return, and Seattle already has six picks in this year's draft. Seattle needs veteran pieces to build a nucleus for a playoff contender, and as the starting center, Thomas has provided a much-needed inside presence defensively and on the boards.
"It's part of the business," Thomas said of the trade rumors. "I know you hear it all the time. But I've been around for a while, so it doesn't bother me.

"I haven't been a free agent for a while. It's just something I'll look to when this summer comes up and see what's best for Kurt and his family." -- Tacoma News Tribune

Just as I suspected.

Next.

And then there's that.

A second rounder and cash is not what SEA is looking for.

[Holt's Cat]

Well, that's the most they can hope for. On the open market this summer maybe someone gives Kurt Thomas 2 years, $10 mil. Maybe.

[Bruno]

I'm really split on Kurt Thomas.
There are certain matchups where he will help us but there are other matchups where Barry will be damn useful. At the end, I'm not sure Thomas will help Spurs more than Barry.

If Spurs had to give up a first round pick or Mahinmi or Splitter to get Thomas, it would be a bad trade.

[Holt's Cat]

I'm really split on Kurt Thomas.
There are certain matchups where he will help us but there are other matchups where Barry will be damn useful. At the end, I'm not sure Thomas will help Spurs more than Barry.

If Spurs had to give up a first round pick or Mahinmi or Splitter to get Thomas, it would be a bad trade.


Right, but a 2nd rounder makes sense. Plus they would be able to re-sign Thomas in the summer without using their MLE.

[Bruno]

Right, but a 2nd rounder makes sense. Plus they would be able to re-sign Thomas in the summer without using their MLE.

I doubt Sonics are interested for a second round pick. They have 2 first round picks and 4 second round picks in the 2008 draft.

I see them being more interested in getting money or getting better picks.

Elson + Barry + $3M for Thomas + 1 or 2 second round picks
or
Elson + Barry + 1st round pick for Thomas + 1 or 2 second round picks
are trades that makes some sense for Seattle.

I wouldn't do these deals if I were Spurs GM. I'm not even sure that I would do Barry + Elson for Thomas.

[Holt's Cat]

I doubt Sonics are interested for a second round pick. They have 2 first round picks and 4 second round picks in the 2008 draft.

I see them being more interested in getting money or getting better picks.

Elson + Barry + $3M for Thomas + 1 or 2 second round picks
or
Elson + Barry + 1st round pick for Thomas + 1 or 2 second round picks
are trades that makes some sense for Seattle.

I wouldn't do these deals if I were Spurs GM. I'm not even sure that I would do Barry + Elson for Thomas.


A 2nd round pick is better than nothing. The Spurs have two in '09 at their disposal as well. Presti can appreciate draft and stash as much as any other GM.

I think they need frontcourt help more than they need Barry to return. They need depth and quality in the frontcourt beyond the top 3 bigs in the rotation.

[Bruno]

First, I don't find Thomas that good.

Second, Thomas won't avoid Spurs to play small ball against teams like Dallas and when Spurs plays small, Spurs really need Barry.

In a general way, I'm not that hot on giving up Barry if Spurs don't get a swingman in return or a quick PF.

[Ghost Writer]

The Sonics need another draft pick like they need a hole in the head.

Read and snap back into reality.

[Holt's Cat]

Barry, Elson, and a pick for Thomas and Damien Wilkins. I think the trade exception from the Udrih trade would make that work. Wilkins could be a useful role player in SA. He does a little of everything and plays hard. Seems like a good teammate. Seattle seems to want to move Wilkins as his contract lasts past this year (ends in 2010).

[Que Gee]

According to a "SportsCenter breaking news" Thomas to the Spurs trade call is happening right now.

[phyzik]

Good call Holt Cat.... be sure to rub this shit all in Ghost Writers face.

[Taco]

nice move

sorry to see barry go :(

[hater]

If the Spurs get Kurt Thomas, I'm going to kill myself. Seriously, I'll put a knife to my throat and end it.


:lmao

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lmao
You're such a dick. :lol

[phyzik]

If the Spurs get Kurt Thomas, I'm going to kill myself. Seriously, I'll put a knife to my throat and end it.

:ttiwwp:


:elephant

[picnroll]

Duncan, Thomas, Udoka, Manu lineup would be one of the best rebounding teams in the league.

[BonnerDynasty]

:lmao

[spurster]

What a call!

I guess Holt's cat has pretty good ears.

[MajorMike]

I do not want Tim Thomas here... I just don't like the guy. Just my opinion. Never liked him, don't want him in the silver and black... however, I'd love to see wilcox here instead. He's got a significantly smaller contract as well.

Well, good for you.

By the way, its Kurt Thomas, not Tim.

[Ghost Writer]

Nice job, Holt's Cat.

You got your man!

I feel better about the front office and the Spurs chances this season.

We just need to get healthy now.

[bigfundamental21]

Way to call it, Holt's Cat.

Any predictions on what will become of the empty roster spot?

[Ghost Writer]

Good call Holt Cat.... be sure to rub this shit all in Ghost Writers face.
Fvck you, dude.

I gave Holt's Cat his due!

I was going by what Seattle's local paper said.

And I knew it would take more than a second rounder!

Please show me where I didn't approve of such a deal.

Just because I wanted Artest does not mean I was not in favor of Thomas as an alternative.

Kudos to Holt's for suggesting Thomas before anyone else.

[Holt's Cat]

Well, I think some may have postulated this exact trade before this thread. Certainly Kurt Thomas was identified as a logical Spurs trade target on this forum a month ago at least.

Anyways, solid trade. Good not great. Should the Sonics waive Barry and he returns when he's eligible it will look even better. I'm not that concerned about moving the 1st rounder. Yes, the Spurs have lost out on some opportunities in the draft when they've made moves to win now. But then, they've drafted Beno Udrih when they kept their pick. Assuming they put the appropriate protections on the pick, no worries. Given the Spurs track record with picks the likelihood is not that they would find a NBA ready player with the pick but rather some international talent who's a few years away from the NBA due to his game and/or contractual commitments abroad. So someone drafted in 2009 might be ready to contribute in 2011. And it's not like the Spurs don't have Mahinmi, Splitter, and their 1st rounder and two 2nd rounders this year. You typically have to give to get in the NBA.

The Spurs' frontcourt was untenable as it stood before this trade. You had 3 guys you could trust in the postseason. In the swingman rotation you had 4. This is a big man's league. Looking at the other likely Western Conference playoff teams it was clear this was an area of concern. If Barry doesn't come back the trade still looks good because of this.

All teams have weaknesses. The key is to have strengths that overwhelm your opponent's ability to exploit your weaknesses. Right now the Spurs are two deep at the 2 and 3. Having Barry was a luxury. It'd be nice to get that luxury back, if he's not done physically.

[MoSpur]

We can still trade Finley and Horry for Artest. LOL

[Holt's Cat]

We can still trade Finley and Horry for Artest. LOL

How about Horry for Artest?

:stirpot:

[MoSpur]

How about Horry for Artest?

:stirpot:

Even better!

[Holt's Cat]

Even better!


This is purely hypothetical unless the Kings decide they want to move Artest, the Spurs decide that Horry is expendable, and that they would want to give up whatever young talent and/or picks that could possibly get the deal done. My thought is the Spurs have held Horry back and just now is he being worked back into the rotation. Obviously with Thomas coming on board Horry would be needed somewhat less and Artest, if sane, would give the Spurs more flexibility in their lineup.

I don't think Horry is done and now he's in a spot in which he won't be expected to play heavy minutes in the postseason. And hey, it's February. He'll be ready come April.

[MoSpur]

Well, I doubt the Spurs have any chance of getting Artest, but the Spurs offered the Kings Elson, Barry, and the pick for Artest and it didn't get done. I doubt they take Horry. The Spurs would have to give up more than Horry to even make the salaries match. It would take Horry, Bonner, and probably Finley.

[Holt's Cat]

.

[Holt's Cat]

Horry and Bonner would match (http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4533120) the salary.

Obviously the reason the trade would get done is whatever else the Spurs wanted to include. Again, this is just kicking the ball around.

[Ghost Writer]

Well, I think some may have postulated this exact trade before this thread. Certainly Kurt Thomas was identified as a logical Spurs trade target on this forum a month ago at least.

Anyways, solid trade. Good not great. Should the Sonics waive Barry and he returns when he's eligible it will look even better. I'm not that concerned about moving the 1st rounder. Yes, the Spurs have lost out on some opportunities in the draft when they've made moves to win now. But then, they've drafted Beno Udrih when they kept their pick. Assuming they put the appropriate protections on the pick, no worries. Given the Spurs track record with picks the likelihood is not that they would find a NBA ready player with the pick but rather some international talent who's a few years away from the NBA due to his game and/or contractual commitments abroad. So someone drafted in 2009 might be ready to contribute in 2011. And it's not like the Spurs don't have Mahinmi, Splitter, and their 1st rounder and two 2nd rounders this year. You typically have to give to get in the NBA.

The Spurs' frontcourt was untenable as it stood before this trade. You had 3 guys you could trust in the postseason. In the swingman rotation you had 4. This is a big man's league. Looking at the other likely Western Conference playoff teams it was clear this was an area of concern. If Barry doesn't come back the trade still looks good because of this.

All teams have weaknesses. The key is to have strengths that overwhelm your opponent's ability to exploit your weaknesses. Right now the Spurs are two deep at the 2 and 3. Having Barry was a luxury. It'd be nice to get that luxury back, if he's not done physically.
Dude, could an unmentioned by-product of this trade be NOT having to pay a first rounder next year?

Question.

[Holt's Cat]

Dude, could an unmentioned by-product of this trade be NOT having to pay a first rounder next year?

Question.


Well, that's probably part of it. Of course, the Spurs could always draft an international player and let him play abroad for years without him hitting the cap.

Don't get me wrong, 1st round picks do have value. But at some point you have to go with the bird in hand. If the Spurs didn't have Mahinmi, Splitter, and their #1 this year I might feel a little differently about this deal. They have prospects. Likely they will be able to find some swingman this summer with their MLE (Wells comes to mind). Again, they had 3 bigs they could count on and 4 swingmen they could count on in the postseason. The need was clear.

[Ghost Writer]

Exactly.

I argued all along that the Spurs have a core in place and enough youth ready to join the rotation next year.

When would that first rounder actually make an impact with the Spurs, if ever?

Spurs are built to win now.


P.S.

What are you stirring with Artest?

Sacramento remembers what Horry can do...

Tempt me.

[reborning]

his defense will absolutely benefit us a lot^^