Manu snub... from greatest SG of all time ESPN

[hsxvvd]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-GreatestSGs

Ok, so Jordan was a given, but check the fine print. How does Manu get 4 votes... and Dwayne "11-51" Wade gets 23! Are you kidding me?

[whottt]

It's awesome that Ice finished fourth....he should be second, but fourth isn't too bad considering how badly overhyped Laker players tend to be(with the exception of Magic Johnson who is badly underhyped).


As for Manu...well he hasn't been in the league as long as most of those guys and the one guy on the list that's been around the same length of time put on an all time great performance in the finals and won the finals MVP.


I don't see Manu as being overly dissed here...he's had an abbreviated career compared to most of those guys and his international career isn't being paid much attention to by the voters. I'll be diappointed if he still doesn't get mentioned when he's done playing.

[whottt]

After looking at that list...even the honorable mentions, Manu's had the shortest NBA career of anyone on that list except for Wade....that's pretty impressive actually. Yeah Wade is overhyped...but that finals performance was pretty impressive.

[samikeyp]

It's awesome that Ice finished fourth....he should be second, but fourth isn't too bad considering how badly overhyped Laker players tend to be(with the exception of Magic Johnson who is badly underhyped).


As for Manu...well he hasn't been in the league as long as most of those guys and the one guy on the list that's been around the same length of time put on an all time great performance in the finals and won the finals MVP.


I don't see Manu as being overly dissed here...he's had an abbreviated career compared to most of those guys and his international career isn't being paid much attention to by the voters. I'll be diappointed if he still doesn't get mentioned when he's done playing.


I would agree. Manu still has plenty of good basketball left so I don't see it as a snub. I think the list is still pretty good.

Now if it were a list of active shooting guards and Manu was left off, that would be a major diss.

[Allanon]

Dwayne Wade has been consistently better than Manu before this year. Manu has been playing extremely well but that is more of just this year.

Truth is Pop is probably to be blamed for Manu's lack of Stardom....coming off the bench, you'll never be mentioned among the Greatest. If he was a starter for the last few years, I don't doubt he'd be much higher ranked than Wade.

Ice was an excellent player but I think Kobe is still the better because he's the best scorer and one of the best defenders. Kobe also has a farther shooting range than Iceman had.

Jerry West I have no idea about, never saw him play.

[Bruno]

Snub ? :lol

Ginobili is even too high on that list.

[xcoriate]

exactly. Interesting how there were two voters that didn't think Gervin qualified for the top 10 though. That is ridiculous.

Hmmm, and two more who didn't think Iverson was worthy, I mean love or hate him he is easy a top 10 SG all time.

[romain.star]

Snub ? :lol

Ginobili is even too high on that list.


+1

[Rummpd]

Manu can play with anyone on that list anytime. Not top 5 but in mix for next group. His talents and overall basketball c.v. (worldwide) so underappreciated. Much more of a winner and competitor than Drexer and a lot above him.

I still say Oscar Robertson should be on list, played shooting guard many years and was as good as Jordan and Kobe and many have argued he was in the very top tier of guards and players ever in NBA.

[hater]

DWade is in that??? :lmao


that poll just lost all credibility

[George Gervin's Afro]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-GreatestSGs

Ok, so Jordan was a given, but check the fine print. How does Manu get 4 votes... and Dwayne "11-51" Wade gets 23! Are you kidding me?


I love Manu but he MAY make the top 20 shooting guards of all time.

[honestfool84]

Ice was an excellent player but I think Kobe is still the better because he's the best scorer and one of the best defenders.


i don't think kobe is that amazing of a defensive player..


:lol

[DarrinS]

There is some serious Manu homerism going on these days.


Don't get me wrong, Manu is a great player, but did you see that list?

[rAm]

Wade is a star, but not a super-star. He relies on his athletic ability to score (and get whistles to pad his stats).

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

any votes for Manu is a compliment.

That said, his statistical individual NBA career severely underrates him, he's just as competitive as the greats, etc. a truly unique player, that only comes around every so often with that inherent will to win.

[m33p0]

No no no no. ESPN got it backwards. The list didn't snub Manu... Manu snubbed the list.

[Supreme_Being]

Snub ? :lol

Ginobili is even too high on that list.


You should go to the Church of Manu.

[san antonio spurs]

Wade is a star, but not a super-star. He relies on his athletic ability to score (and get whistles to pad his stats).
:wtf
This is the most retarded post I've seen in a while.

Regarding people dissing Wade for this season, the guy was injured, his worthy teamates were injured, his coach screwed him over and got rid of some major parts in their title run. (The guy by himself won multiple heat series in the playoffs)

Should we stop mentioning DR50 in the greatest centers of all time discussion because of 96? :rolleyes

[rAm]

:wtf
This is the most retarded post I've seen in a while.

Regarding people dissing Wade for this season, the guy was injured, his worthy teamates were injured, his coach screwed him over and got rid of some major parts in their title run. (The guy by himself won multiple heat series in the playoffs)

Should we stop mentioning DR50 in the greatest centers of all time discussion because of 96? :rolleyes

how was that post retarded? Do you actually think Wade deserves to be called a superstar? Would you put him in the same category as Kobe/Lebron/Duncan/KG/AI etc. ? In my opinon, he is not a superstar.

You say "DR50" or whatever you want to call him. His name is David Robinson, and yes if he only had one great season I would not call him a Superstar.

96? DRob played 6 games that season, D-Wade has played 51. How are you even making this comparison? D-Wade hasn't proven shit to me, besides the fact that he beat Dallas in the finals because of Free-Throw Attempts.

[spursfan09]

Gee I wonder who Carlos Morales voted for.

[san antonio spurs]

how was that post retarded? Do you actually think Wade deserves to be called a superstar? Would you put him in the same category as Kobe/Lebron/Duncan/KG/AI etc. ? In my opinon, he is not a superstar..

That's key right there, in your opinion what makes a superstar and lets see if Wade fails to qualify. Thanks.


You say "DR50" or whatever you want to call him. His name is David Robinson, and yes if he only had one great season I would not call him a Superstar. .

First of all I have the most respect for David Robinson and excuse my laziness on the www. :rolleyes

Secondly, Wade didn't have only one great season. If you watched the NBA you'd realise how clutch and dominant he was as a rook in the playoffs (against BD, oh excuse me Byron Davis). And if it wasn't for his style of play and injuries he'd be dominating now. Watch some games sometimes.


96? DRob played 6 games that season, D-Wade has played 51. How are you even making this comparison? D-Wade hasn't proven shit to me, besides the fact that he beat Dallas in the finals because of Free-Throw Attempts.
Really? he had a smart coach, and just about now Pat Riley is catching up.

And to me, Dirk hasn't proven shit to me, he won the spurs series at FT line :rolleyes

[rAm]

That's key right there, in your opinion what makes a superstar and lets see if Wade fails to qualify. Thanks.



First of all I have the most respect for David Robinson and excuse my laziness on the www. :rolleyes

Secondly, Wade didn't have only one great season. If you watched the NBA you'd realise how clutch and dominant he was as a rook in the playoffs (against BD, oh excuse me Byron Davis). And if it wasn't for his style of play and injuries he'd be dominating now. Watch some games sometimes.


Really? he had a smart coach, and just about now Pat Riley is catching up.

And to me, Dirk hasn't proven shit to me, he won the spurs series at FT line :rolleyes


You still haven't answered my original question, you are avoiding it. Do you think Dwayne Wade is a superstar? Just because he has been in 4 different commercial series, we shouldn't assume he is a superstar. I did in fact watch parts of that series, even though the East is usually boring to me until the later rounds. He played great in that series, but the Hornets still took them to 7 games, and then they got knocked out in 6. He played "great" in the finals as well. Do 2 playoff series make him a superstar? Does it make him eligible to be considered with the likes of the AMAZING SG's that have ever played the game?

In my opinion (yes MY opinion), he does not deserve it, nor do I consider him a Superstar. You have said nothing to backup your "opinion" except to compare him to David Robinson, which in itself is the most retarded post I have seen in a while. Pat Riley not a smart coach? Why don't you count all the rings on his fingers and compare them to SVG and tell me who wins.

Only thing I agree with you is that Dirk won his series also. Those 2 series were horrible to watch because of the foul calls, it wasn't even basketball. But once again, that has nothing to do with this discussion.

Why don't you think twice before you go calling someone's post retarded just because you don't agree with it.

[hater]

Wade is a superstar if you're talking about cellphone commercials.

if you're talking about basketball, he is a has been. Even Shaq left him

shit, he had 1 great season in his entire life :rolleyes

Manu >>>> Wade

[san antonio spurs]

You still haven't answered my original question, you are avoiding it. Do you think Dwayne Wade is a superstar? Just because he has been in 4 different commercial series, we shouldn't assume he is a superstar. I did in fact watch parts of that series, even though the East is usually boring to me until the later rounds. He played great in that series, but the Hornets still took them to 7 games, and then they got knocked out in 6. He played "great" in the finals as well. Do 2 playoff series make him a superstar?.

Yes he's a superstar, you listed AI, KG and Lebron, and by those mesures he qualifies as he's lead his team further and got the grand prize.


In my opinion (yes MY opinion), he does not deserve it, nor do I consider him a Superstar. You have said nothing to backup your "opinion" except to compare him to David Robinson, which in itself is the most retarded post I have seen in a while. Pat Riley not a smart coach? Why don't you count all the rings on his fingers and compare them to SVG and tell me who wins..
Your logic just hit a new low.
You failed again to enonciate what makes a superstar and why Wade doesn't qalify.
And your comprehension skills need to be updated. Pat Riley is a good coach, but playing you franchise player on a bum knee in a lost season isn't that smart. That's what I was refering too, not his resume.


Only thing I agree with you is that Dirk won his series also. Those 2 series were horrible to watch because of the foul calls, it wasn't even basketball. But once again, that has nothing to do with this discussion..

Considering your previous rebuttals I'm not surprised that you failed to make the connection. A quick wrap up however to give you a hint, Dirk is a superstar who won a series at the FT line jusk like wade. Unless you don't consider Dirk a superstar


Why don't you think twice before you go calling someone's post retarded just because you don't agree with it.
I stand corrected :rolleyes

[rAm]

You still have not made any valid points to back up your argument. Comparing his coach/how far he has advanced in the playoffs is focusing on the team as a whole. KG/AI/Lebron have never had as good of a supporting cast as the Heat did when they won the finals (and even that is a stretch). He wasn't able to make a REAL impact on the East (yes the EAST) until Shaq was on his team. This allowed him to use his athletic skill (the only real thing going for him) to get easy baskets and go to the foul line.





Your logic just hit a new low.
You failed again to enonciate what makes a superstar and why Wade doesn't qalify.
And your comprehension skills need to be updated. Pat Riley is a good coach, but playing you franchise player on a bum knee in a lost season isn't that smart. That's what I was refering too, not his resume.

You are just proving my point. Riley played Wade on a Bum knee, the same bum knee that has been (according to you) seriously affecting his performance. That right there is what I am trying to get through your think skull. Wade having a bum knee severely hinders his athleticism, which is his main attribute. He runs very fast and dives into the lane looking for contact (why he is always on his ass), and now that he has a bum knee he can't do that shit anymore. Now look what happens: 11-51 record in the Eastern Fucking Conference. They are still elgible to make the playoffs for christ sakes.




Considering your previous rebuttals I'm not surprised that you failed to make the connection. A quick wrap up however to give you a hint, Dirk is a superstar who won a series at the FT line jusk like wade. Unless you don't consider Dirk a superstar

If you re-read what I typed you would see that I was talking about Foul Calls as well, I made a typo. Did you not read the "Only thing I agree with you is". Considering my previous rebuttals? You have not even rebutted anything except for comparing Wade to DRob, and saying "NU-UH HE IS A SUPERSTAR HE WON TITLE, KG HASNT".

Rebuttal that.

[The Franchise]

how was that post retarded? Do you actually think Wade deserves to be called a superstar? Would you put him in the same category as Kobe/Lebron/Duncan/KG/AI etc. ? In my opinon, he is not a superstar.

You say "DR50" or whatever you want to call him. His name is David Robinson, and yes if he only had one great season I would not call him a Superstar.

96? DRob played 6 games that season, D-Wade has played 51. How are you even making this comparison? D-Wade hasn't proven shit to me, besides the fact that he beat Dallas in the finals because of Free-Throw Attempts. Look, I am a Spurs fan (second only to the Rockets) and I think Manu is a great competitor, but if I were starting a team I would not pick Manu over Wade. Put a healthy Wade in SA and the Spurs aren't a better team? Love Manu, but be real for a second.

[san antonio spurs]

You still have not made any valid points to back up your argument. Comparing his coach/how far he has advanced in the playoffs is focusing on the team as a whole. KG/AI/Lebron have never had as good of a supporting cast as the Heat did when they won the finals (and even that is a stretch). He wasn't able to make a REAL impact on the East (yes the EAST) until Shaq was on his team. This allowed him to use his athletic skill (the only real thing going for him) to get easy baskets and go to the foul line.






You are just proving my point. Riley played Wade on a Bum knee, the same bum knee that has been (according to you) seriously affecting his performance. That right there is what I am trying to get through your think skull. Wade having a bum knee severely hinders his athleticism, which is his main attribute. He runs very fast and dives into the lane looking for contact (why he is always on his ass), and now that he has a bum knee he can't do that shit anymore. Now look what happens: 11-51 record in the Eastern Fucking Conference. They are still elgible to make the playoffs for christ sakes.





If you re-read what I typed you would see that I was talking about Foul Calls as well, I made a typo. Did you not read the "Only thing I agree with you is". Considering my previous rebuttals? You have not even rebutted anything except for comparing Wade to DRob, and saying "NU-UH HE IS A SUPERSTAR HE WON TITLE, KG HASNT".

Rebuttal that.
Can't waste my time with a kid that prides himself in not making sense.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Only thing you could argue is Manu's a better shooter.

I think Wade could go either way right now, he might become a Penny Hardaway, or just might be back next year. If he has a long career, his losing season will just be a blip used against him in Lebron vs. whatever debates, nothing more....but Wade has definitely been up to this point, a super-star caliber player.

[ShoogarBear]

At 6-foot-8, Gervin revolutionized the position, won four scoring titles (one in the ABA, three in the NBA)
:lol Ice never won a scoring title in the ABA. All four were in the NBA (78, 79, 80, 82).

[rAm]

Look, I am a Spurs fan (second only to the Rockets) and I think Manu is a great competitor, but if I were starting a team I would not pick Manu over Wade. Put a healthy Wade in SA and the Spurs aren't a better team? Love Manu, but be real for a second.

im not even comparing Wade to Manu, I am saying Wade is not a super-star.


Can't waste my time with a kid that prides himself in not making sense.

Please explain to me where in the past 3 replies have I not made sense. You have avoided every point I have made.

Calling me Kid and giving up on an argument? You lose my friend, you lose. Pretty pathetic Spurs fan on top of all that if you are comparing D-Wade to D-Rob.

[rep]

I never saw Reggie play until the latter part of his career. Does he deserve to be ranked at 7? I never saw Joe D play at all, but I'd say the only thing Reggie has over Joe is his jump shot and it's not like Joe D was a bad jump shooter.

Anyone agree?

As for Manu. I don't know as flashy and as fun as he can be to watch, he's not selfish or a ball hog and oh yea he plays for the Spurs. Of course ESPN is gonna go for the cat down in Miami. You're not fun to watch Spurs fans so you're gonna get short changed as far as things like this.

Just for the record, nationally yea you're not fun to watch but in Detroit, we're not stupid. We respect you guys and the way you play and as great as Ginobili is I wouldn't put him on that list or even mention him. When it's all said and done tho, IDK how he's not a top 10 SG especially of this era...

[jag]

Not a bad list actually...If you dont think that MJ and Kobe are 1 and 2 then i have nothing to say to you.

[jag]

:lol Ice never won a scoring title in the ABA. All four were in the NBA (78, 79, 80, 82).

Also, I'm pretty sure Gervin was barely 6'7".

[Martin R]

There is NONE, (read loud) NO PLAYER has ever achieved what Manu has so far. NONE.

This before saying he is too high in that list, use your brain and think 2 seconds before posting.

Manu : 3 NBA rings and counting, Olympic Champion, European Champion.
Reggie Miller? give me a brake.

[ClingingMars]

Iceman >>> Manu. sorry Church of Manu.

-Mars

[JamStone]

Don't see why some people are getting bent. In Michael Jordan's honors, it doesn't speak about his two gold medals or his NCAA championship. While not explicit, it's pretty obvious that the list is comprised based on achievements in the NBA, not Olympic or international play. As such, mentioning Manu's achievements outside the NBA carries little merit to the discussion, at least how those ESPN people made their votes.

[mathbzh]

Don't see why some people are getting bent. In Michael Jordan's honors, it doesn't speak about his two gold medals or his NCAA championship. While not explicit, it's pretty obvious that the list is comprised based on achievements in the NBA, not Olympic or international play. As such, mentioning Manu's achievements outside the NBA carries little merit to the discussion, at least how those ESPN people made their votes.

Come on... you can't compare the 92 dream team to Manu's Argentina.
From 1992 to 2000 USA was supposed to win gold.

[JamStone]

Who's comparing? I just said there's no mention of it therefore the voters didn't take into consideration play outside the NBA. It has nothing to do with comparing those two teams.

[mathbzh]

Who's comparing? I just said there's no mention of it therefore the voters didn't take into consideration play outside the NBA. It has nothing to do with comparing those two teams.

Given Jordan NBA career there is not much needs to speak about gold medal.
But if he was barely in the HOF you would probably have references to his international and NCAA career. Just check pistol pete HOF resume.

[TheTruth]

How can you NOT call Wade a superstar? What do YOU define a superstar as???

Championship? Check. All-star? Check. 20+ points a game? Check. And he's popular as all get out.

Jesus H. Christ, what's with the haterade?

-Ginofan

[JamStone]

Given Jordan NBA career there is not much needs to speak about gold medal.
But if he was barely in the HOF you would probably have references to his international and NCAA career. Just check pistol pete HOF resume.

The list isn't associated with the Hall of Fame. The Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame recognizes collegiate and international basketball. This list obviously didn't.

[oboymeetsogirl]

I respect guys like Miller and Dumars, but if Manu continues to grow the way he has over the next two, three, four years -- along with another two or three rings -- he'll easily surpass a Dumars and Miller (not to mention Wade) just by sheer weight of accomplishments. After all, most of these old guys on this top ten list are in there for their career-long achievements, and Manu is only half-way there (God willing). After a while it becomes obvious to everyone that no way guys like Miller (with his zero rings) and Dumars (with his two rings) can be rated higher than Manu, should he end up with four, five or six.

Number of championships, after all, ultimately carries greater weight than individual statistics when careers are finished, analyzed and rated.

[rAm]

How can you NOT call Wade a superstar? What do YOU define a superstar as???

Championship? Check. All-star? Check. 20+ points a game? Check. And he's popular as all get out.

Jesus H. Christ, what's with the haterade?

-Ginofan


IMO Wade does not play super-star basketball. He has super-star hype and commercial appeal, but he does not deserve to be mentioned on this list.

[Bruno]

The truth is that Ginobili is a borderline all star SG. Considering him as one of the greatest SG of the NBA history is just delusional.
His main edge is that he has 3 NBA rings but truth it's mainly because he plays with Tim Duncan.

[WalterBenitez]

+1 -1
:lol

[kingmalaki]

Honest question for Spurs fans that had a chance to watch Gervin play. Why do you think he is better than Drexler? I recall it being #1 and #2 between Mike and Clyde until they met up in the Finals.

[JamStone]

I respect guys like Miller and Dumars, but if Manu continues to grow the way he has over the next two, three, four years -- along with another two or three rings -- he'll easily surpass a Dumars and Miller (not to mention Wade) just by sheer weight of accomplishments. After all, most of these old guys on this top ten list are in there for their career-long achievements, and Manu is only half-way there (God willing). After a while it becomes obvious to everyone that no way guys like Miller (with his zero rings) and Dumars (with his two rings) can be rated higher than Manu, should he end up with four, five or six.

Number of championships, after all, ultimately carries greater weight than individual statistics when careers are finished, analyzed and rated.


I'm a Piston fan and I don't even think Joe Dumars should be a top ten SG on the list, although I think it's nice praise for Dumars the player. But, just to counter-point, not necessarily a real disagreement, realize that Joe Dumars has international success although not Olympic, and he is a former NBA Finals MVP.

A Finals MVP carries a lot of weight.

[ShoogarBear]

There is NONE, (read loud) NO PLAYER has ever achieved what Manu has so far. NONE.

This before saying he is too high in that list, use your brain and think 2 seconds before posting.

Manu : 3 NBA rings and counting, Olympic Champion, European Champion.
Reggie Miller? give me a brake.:rolleyes

You might take your own advice. That first paragraph might be in the all-time top ten most incorrect statements ever made about basketball.

Bill Russell. Michael Jordan.

And before you say it, NCAA Champion >>> European Champion when they played.

[Nikos]

Comparing Manu to other SG's who had to carry the load on their teams for several years is difficult.

Manu objectively looks like a very good SG when you compare him with Dumars and Reggie Miller -- breaking it down he looks he is arguably as good or better when at his best. But Miller and Dumars never played with a Tim Duncan so its difficult to compare.

But Manu is not a superstar that is for sure. He wouldn't make the hall of fame as a NBA player, and neither should have Dumars made it. Nor should Reggie Miller.

[Admiral]

Manu can play with anyone on that list anytime. Not top 5 but in mix for next group. His talents and overall basketball c.v. (worldwide) so underappreciated. Much more of a winner and competitor than Drexer and a lot above him.

Manu > Drexler? Surely you're joking! :lol

[Martin R]

And before you say it, NCAA Champion >>> European Champion when they played.
:donkey
NCAA 2001/2 Champion >>>> than Kinder Bologna??? you have to be joking big time or never seen a Eurogame ever. You'd surprise how close are and were core Euro teams to an NBA avg team.

By the way, the fact that Manu has achieved his titles playing in different teams (Spurs, Kinder, Argentina NT), makes my point even stronger.

So please, give me a brake. Reggie Miller over Manu?? oh come on.
I concede MJ but no way Bill Russell. Manu is going to be bigger than Billat the end of his career.

[timvp]

I concede MJ but no way Bill Russell. Manu is going to be bigger than Bill at the end of his career.Wow. Just wow.

What time is service this week?

[Phantom]

I'm worried for Manu's health they way he crashes into people in the paint. :depressed

[Brutalis]

What a joke. ESPN does it again congrats.

[Martin R]

Wow. Just wow.

What time is service this week?

It's easy to speak sat on history.

[timvp]

It's easy to speak sat on history.Saturday? Thanks.

[MB20]

It's truly an honor for Manu to be considered on that list. Congrats Manu!!!
Those guys on ESPN obviously voted based on NBA career only. Manu's international achievements mean nothing in this particular poll.
And to be named among all those great players, having played 2nd banana to Tim Duncan for 6 seasons, coming off the bench...wow, just wow.

[ShoogarBear]

:donkey
NCAA 2001/2 Champion >>>> than Kinder Bologna??? you have to be joking big time or never seen a Eurogame ever. You'd surprise how close are and were core Euro teams to an NBA avg team. I'm going to give you a break since English isn't your first language. Otherwise you would get flamed back into the stone age.

I said:

And before you say it, NCAA Champion >>> European Champion when they played.
That means 1956 for Russell and 1984 for Jordan. Because in both those years what amounted to a college all-star team kicked the assess of the Europeans.



So please, give me a brake. Reggie Miller over Manu?? oh come on.
I concede MJ but no way Bill Russell. Manu is going to be bigger than Billat the end of his career.I take that back. You're a complete idiot.

[ShoogarBear]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[ShoogarBear]

Manu bigger than Russell.

[Killakobe81]

Manu is great but at this time not an all-timer ...

[mathbzh]

Manu bigger than Russel :lol

Manu is great. In his best moments he worth any other SG, he is having a great season, his 2005 playoffs were amazing, his international career proves he is a winner. But seriously his NBA career is not that great.
He came in the league being almost in his prime and still have "only" 14/4/4 career stats... OK this is not only about stats but we are comparing him to the best SG ever.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Manu bigger than Russel :lol

Manu is great. In his best moments he worth any other SG, he is having a great season, his 2005 playoffs were amazing, his international career proves he is a winner. But seriously his NBA career is not that great.
He came in the league being almost in his prime and still have "only" 14/4/4 career stats...

True his 14/4/4 stats look bad. But they're kind of irrelevant to his play.

I really don't think the Tim Duncan argument applies to Manu. Sometimes players are just great on their own.
It's that kind of circle logic that is annoying in Sports debates. It's the same kind of crap that was heaped on Timmy. "he can't win a championship without D-Rob" "he can't win without Tony and Manu" it's a lot of bullshit but that's how it goes.

Tim Duncan was one Horry clanker away from a depreciated legacy. Luckily, we won 2005, and it was set in stone. Now he's untouchable.

Manu right now shouldn't be considered among those other SG, but he has time to prove himself.
I think even some of Manu's own fans underestimate him, for fear of being "homerish" This guy has it to be an "all-time" player. He just needs more time. Just be grateful, Manu's contributions are a result of him trying to win for the team, and not the other way around by other NBA players who buy into the individual "glory/Hall of Fame" bullshit, and have it reversed.

Same thing with Timmy, he's as great as he is because he does what it takes to win. All his awards are just secondary to him.

[mathbzh]

True his 14/4/4 stats look bad. But they're kind of irrelevant to his play.

I really don't think the Tim Duncan argument applies to Manu. Sometimes players are just great on their own.
It's that kind of circle logic that is annoying in Sports debates. It's the same kind of crap that was heaped on Timmy. "he can't win a championship without D-Rob" "he can't win without Tony and Manu" it's a lot of bullshit but that's how it goes.

Tim Duncan was one Horry clanker away from a depreciated legacy. Luckily, we won 2005, and it was set in stone. Now he's untouchable.

Manu right now shouldn't be considered among those other SG, but he has time to prove himself.
I think even some of Manu's own fans underestimate him, for fear of being "homerish" This guy has it to be an "all-time" player. He just needs more time. Just be grateful, Manu's contributions are a result of him trying to win for the team, and not the other way around by other NBA players who buy into the individual "glory/Hall of Fame" bullshit, and have it reversed.

Same thing with Timmy, he's as great as he is because he does what it takes to win. All his awards are just secondary to him.

I agree with you. Should Manu play 2 or 3 more season like he is doing right now, he would be ranked much higher. But we should not be surprised if he is not yet ranked very high on that list.