Will a revote in Michigan and Florida happen?

[peewee's lovechild]

Hillary want's it to happen, someone else doesn't:




(CNN) – A top Michigan Democrat reports that negotiators working to pass an 11th-hour plan for a re-vote in the state are increasingly frustrated with Barack Obama’s failure to either embrace the plan currently being considered, or propose an alternative.

Lawmakers are facing mounting pressure this evening to come up with an agreement before the legislature adjourns Thursday for a two-week recess.

“The Obama people are blocking it in the legislature,” the Democratic source tells CNN, who says that the group has repeatedly and unsuccessfully reached out to the campaign for input and cooperation.

The source says that Obama’s campaign has been asked to craft an alternative or to meet with the Clinton campaign to work out an acceptable compromise, but that those requests have been met with silence.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton disputes this account, though the campaign offers no specifics.

The Clinton campaign has been increasing its criticism of Obama for his failure to back a new primary that would meet national party requirements and allow a full Michigan delegation to be seated at the Democratic convention this summer.

Wednesday, Hillary Clinton made her first campaign appearance in Michigan this year, challenging Obama directly to back the seating of a full Michigan delegation.

Clinton won the January Michigan contest with 55 percent of the vote, but was awarded no delegates. She was the only major Democratic candidate to appear on the ballot; 40 percent of the party’s primary voters chose the “uncommitted” option instead.

Michigan Sen. Carl Levin, who has been a major proponent of a new primary vote, told CNN Wednesday that his group of four unaligned Michigan politicians was hopeful that legislators would vote on the plan this evening or Thursday, which would allow the delegation to be seated “without a floor fight and without a credentials fight.”

[Doc Jerome]

It is premature and disingenuous to blame Sen. Obama for Sen. Clinton's apparent desperation and her campaign's shortcomings.

[peewee's lovechild]

It is premature and disingenuous to blame Sen. Obama for Sen. Clinton's apparent desperation and her campaign's shortcomings.

He's the one whose keeping the revote from happening.

That's not a lie.

What is he afraid of?

[some_user86]

He's the one whose keeping the revote from happening.

That's not a lie.

What is he afraid of?

Just as she's the one trying to bankroll the new Michigan primaries to gain an advantage for herself... it's all political posturing. They're both playing the same game.

[101A]

It is premature and disingenuous to blame Sen. Obama for Sen. Clinton's apparent desperation and her campaign's shortcomings.Trying to get a primary vote to occur when she thinks she has some momentum is desperation while condoning (desiring) disenfranchisement isn't?

Nice take.

[peewee's lovechild]

Just as she's the one trying to bankroll the new Michigan primaries to gain an advantage for herself... it's all political posturing. They're both playing the same game.

But, one of them doesn't want to disenfranchise the voters.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

these idiots need to take responsibility for what THEY did and what they said would happen. if a brokered convention needs to happen then oh well. like it or lump it.

[LakerMagic]

Florida and Michigan should happen, but probably wont.

Hillary would end up winning the nomination between those two and Penn.

Our party is a mess right now.

[peewee's lovechild]

Florida and Michigan should happen, but probably wont.

Hillary would end up winning the nomination between those two and Penn.



Aaaaaaaand, that's why the Obama campaign is trying to block the revote.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not going to argue over who is playing politics here based on some crappy article that uses an unnamed sources that can neither be confirmed or denied.

But I would love, is a breakdown of delegates from the remaining states and how a plausible scenario in these 2 states would give Hilary the win. I just want some numbers here from the remaining pledged and super delegates showing me how Hilary can win.

[Nbadan]

But I would love, is a breakdown of delegates from the remaining states and how a plausible scenario in these 2 states would give Hilary the win

There is none - even if they included the FL primary - Obama still wins the popular vote and delegate count - no way they can count Michigan because Obama wasn't on the ballot - per DNC instructions

[peewee's lovechild]

There is none - even if they included the FL primary - Obama still wins the popular vote and delegate count - no way they can count Michigan because Obama wasn't on the ballot - per DNC instructions

Aaaaaaand, that's why everyone but Obama wants a revote.

[Nbadan]

Aaaaaaand, that's why everyone but Obama wants a revote.

If it were up to Obama then maybe your argument would make sense, but it's not - there are many reasons why a revote won't likely happen - none of which have even the slightest to do with either of the primary candidates....

[peewee's lovechild]

If it were up to Obama then maybe your argument would make sense, but it's not - there are many reasons why a revote won't likely happen - none of which have even the slightest to do with either of the primary candidates....

Read the damn article.

He's the one holding it up!!
Everyone else has already agreed to move on with it.

[Jamtas#2]

But, one of them doesn't want to disenfranchise the voters.

Correction, one of them didn't want to disenfranchise voters until she was behind.

Hilary saying the MI primary won't count (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg)

She is only playing this card now because she needs the delegates. Don't give into the thought that she is standing up for voters right to be heard. She wants to get elected. If their roles were reversed it would probably be the other way around.
This situation isn't Hilary or Obama's fault, it is the elected officials of MI and FL. I understand they didn't think it was fair to let some states have their primaries first, but they knew the risk involved with moving their primaries up. It is ridiculous to take a gamble and then cry foul when it doens't pay off in your favor.
I don't get to bet you $50 that I can make a shot from half court and then try and get out of it after I miss because it wasn't a fair bet.
They do have a point about the primaries that I agree with, but they knew that they would be causing their states their delegates seats before they did it and they did it anyway. A revote just makes a mockery of the rules.

[Wild Cobra]

Read the damn article.

He's the one holding it up!!
Everyone else has already agreed to move on with it.
How do you figure? Any thing he proposes will then be turned against him. Nothing proposed is fair to him. Any proposal he makes will then be spun as him trying to get the upper hand. His best move is not to play.

The only fair way to award the delegates is to revote, or use a time machine and put the state in play.

Did you know one proposal was to award half the delegates by the percentages, then split the other half evenly? Hillary wins on all proposals. The only fair way I see is to assume half the other candidate supported didn't vote. Therefore, double the uncommitted voter numbers and award Obama a similar split he had verses the other candidates.

However, how many people agree that would be fair.

Without a complete revote with these two on the ballot, and time for them BOTH to campaign, there is no fair way that will not be disputed.

[peewee's lovechild]

How do you figure? Any thing he proposes will then be turned against him. Nothing proposed is fair to him. Any proposal he makes will then be spun as him trying to get the upper hand. His best move is not to play.

The only fair way to award the delegates is to revote, or use a time machine and put the state in play.

Did you know one proposal was to award half the delegates by the percentages, then split the other half evenly? Hillary wins on all proposals. The only fair way I see is to assume half the other candidate supported didn't vote. Therefore, double the uncommitted voter numbers and award Obama a similar split he had verses the other candidates.

However, how many people agree that would be fair.

Without a complete revote with these two on the ballot, and time for them BOTH to campaign, there is no fair way that will not be disputed.

They have offered him a revote, even including those Democrats that voted in the Republican Primary.

But, he won't budge.

[clambake]

They have offered him a revote, even including those Democrats that voted in the Republican Primary.

But, he won't budge.
so it's all up to him? nope.

[peewee's lovechild]

so it's all up to him? nope.

All he has to do is say "yes".

Do you want me to draw it out for you?

[smeagol]

Obama supporters: Hillary is the devil

Hillary supporters: No! Obama is the devil.

In the meantime, McCain is up on the polls big time.

Pathetic!

[peewee's lovechild]

Obama supporters: Hillary is the devil

Hillary supporters: No! Obama is the devil.

In the meantime, McCain is up on the polls big time.

Pathetic!

So?

Vote for McCain.

What the hell do you care?

[Wild Cobra]

They have offered him a revote, even including those Democrats that voted in the Republican Primary.

But, he won't budge.
Why is it up to him? I see it as being between the DNC and the state.

Now there is that point to consider. Without all the same candidates running, the vote will be skewed. Then there is the after fact of new problems for Obama that were not there before.

I just love it. The democrats always complain about disenfranchised voters, but it is them who are always doing it.

Considering it is a party election process, after all consideration, I see Obama as being right. There should be no revote, and no delegates from the two states seated.

They agreed to those terms at the start and must abide by them.

[MannyIsGod]

Obama supporters: Hillary is the devil

Hillary supporters: No! Obama is the devil.

In the meantime, McCain is up on the polls big time.

Pathetic!Its not nearly that simple, but what would you have Obama do? Give up the contest that he literally has wrapped up?

The question for pee wee still stands, play out numericaly through delegates exactly how Clinton could win this race and include a Michigan primary if you'd like.

[peewee's lovechild]

Why is it up to him? I see it as being between the DNC and the state.

Now there is that point to consider. Without all the same candidates running, the vote will be skewed. Then there is the after fact of new problems for Obama that were not there before.

I just love it. The democrats always complain about disenfranchised voters, but it is them who are always doing it.

Considering it is a party election process, after all consideration, I see Obama as being right. There should be no revote, and no delegates from the two states seated.

They agreed to those terms at the start and must abide by them.


You're not getting it.

The DNC and the state have already agreed on a revote.

Obama is blocking it.

This race is between himself and Hillary.
Those are the choices for the revote.

What's the problem here?

[peewee's lovechild]

Its not nearly that simple, but what would you have Obama do? Give up the contest that he literally has wrapped up?

The question for pee wee still stands, play out numericaly through delegates exactly how Clinton could win this race and include a Michigan primary if you'd like.

I don't have those numbers.

If you have them, share with us.

However, niether candidate will have enough elected delegates to win the nomination.

It's still up to the Super Delegates, as I've stated over and over before.

[MannyIsGod]

Why is it up to him? I see it as being between the DNC and the state.

Now there is that point to consider. Without all the same candidates running, the vote will be skewed. Then there is the after fact of new problems for Obama that were not there before.

I just love it. The democrats always complain about disenfranchised voters, but it is them who are always doing it.

Considering it is a party election process, after all consideration, I see Obama as being right. There should be no revote, and no delegates from the two states seated.

They agreed to those terms at the start and must abide by them.Pretty sure the Republicans in Florida re the ones responsible for the situatoin there, not the democrats.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't have those numbers.

If you have them, share with us.

However, niether candidate will have enough elected delegates to win the nomination.

It's still up to the Super Delegates, as I've stated over and over before.So you can't lay out a plausible scenario by which Hillary would win the nomination?

[MannyIsGod]

You're not getting it.

The DNC and the state have already agreed on a revote.


Obama is blocking it.

This race is between himself and Hillary.
Those are the choices for the revote.

What's the problem here?LOL no they haven't. If they had the primary would be on. Obama CAN'T block it.

[peewee's lovechild]

So you can't lay out a plausible scenario by which Hillary would win the nomination?

Neither candidate can win the nomination with pledged delegates.

I thought I've stated this before.

I know you've read several posts where I've said this very same thing.

[peewee's lovechild]

LOL no they haven't. If they had the primary would be on. Obama CAN'T block it.

He has a team of lawyers blocking it from happening!!!

It's really not all that hard to understand.

[Wild Cobra]

What's the problem here?
The problem is that the rules are being changed in the middle of the game.



However, niether candidate will have enough elected delegates to win the nomination.
This part is simple. You reduce the number of delegates needed by the numbers not there when Florida and Michigan are removed. Right now, it is 2025 needed to win if I remember right. That means there are 4048 or 4049 delegates. After removing whatever the two states offer, the winner needs half (+1/2 to 1) to win.


It's still up to the Super Delegates, as I've stated over and over before.
Yes. This is going to be fun to watch. If they change the balance of the pledged delegates, the democrat party will likely crumble.

[MannyIsGod]

Neither candidate can win the nomination with pledged delegates.

I thought I've stated this before.

I know you've read several posts where I've said this very same thing.DId I say only use pledged delegates?

[MannyIsGod]

He has a team of lawyers blocking it from happening!!!

It's really not all that hard to understand.Links confirming this other than what you posted? Whys the democratic source unnamed? This is hardly somethign that should be secret, right?

[peewee's lovechild]

DId I say only use pledged delegates?

Well, in that case either candidate can win the nomination.

Hillary can win with Super Delegates.

We've had this conversation before.

[peewee's lovechild]

Links confirming this other than what you posted? Whys the democratic source unnamed? This is hardly somethign that should be secret, right?

Oh, I see.

CNN is suddenly not credible.

I'm pretty sure when they air something pro-Obama, their credibility will suddenly, magically reappear.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, in that case either candidate can win the nomination.

Hillary can win with Super Delegates.

We've had this conversation before.THEN LAY IT OUT NUMERICALY! Show me a plausible scenario where what you say can happen CAN.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

PeeWee you need to wake up and think fourth dimensionally.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, I see.

CNN is suddenly not credible.

I'm pretty sure when they air something pro-Obama, their credibility will suddenly, magically reappear.I never said anything about CNN. I'm making a very simple point here. CNN is not reporting this as fact, they are reporting it as something an UNNAMED source is saying. I question the legitmacy of an unnamed source, not CNN.

[Mr. Peabody]

It's all Obama's fault... :rolleyes


Michigan Redo Plan Collapses

WASHINGTON — The drive for a second Michigan presidential primary collapsed Thursday, and a fresh dispute broke out between Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton over the fate of the state's 156 national convention delegates.

Obama's campaign said a fair resolution would be to split them evenly with Clinton. Aides to the former first lady instantly rejected the idea and said they would consider a mail-in primary _ even though Obama has raised concerns about the security of a vote by mail organized so quickly.

Obama leads the overall competition for convention delegates, and Clinton has been leading the effort to hold a revote in Michigan, eager for a chance to close the gap on her rival.

The state held a primary in January, so early in the year that it violated party rules. As a result, it was stripped of its delegates. Obama and several other Democratic candidates removed their name from the Michigan ballot and all Democratic candidates agreed not to campaign there.

Michigan Democratic leaders had proposed a do-over primary, to be conducted by the state on June 3 with funding by private donors. But lawmakers showed a lack of enthusiasm for a bill authorizing the vote, and state Senate adjourned Thursday without taking it up.

Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who has endorsed Clinton, said in a statement that she was deeply disappointed the June 3 do-over was no longer a possibility.

"We will turn our attention to other options," she said. "There is no road to the White House that does not go through Michigan"

In a joint statement before adjourning for two weeks Michigan Democratic House Speaker Andy Dillon and House floor leader Rep. Steve Tobocman said, "Regardless of candidate preference, members had concerns over the estimated 100,000 Michigan Democrats who would have been unable to participate in a do-over election, as well as logistical and legal difficulties faced by local clerks." They said they would help try to find a solution that would seat Michigan delegates.

Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut, an Obama supporter and former presidential candidate, promoted the idea of evenly splitting the delegates between Obama and Clinton. "The best outcome is to come to an arrangement where the delegates are apportioned fairly between Senators Obama and Clinton, so the Michigan delegation can participate fully in the Denver convention," he said in a statement.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Dodd spoke to campaign leaders about the idea, and they agreed it would be an equitable way of handling Michigan. "Senator Obama looks forward to building a winning campaign in Michigan in the fall as our Democratic nominee," Burton said.

But Clinton told reporters while campaigning in Terre Haute, Ind., that Obama's nomination could be tainted if he achieves it without a second Michigan contest.

"I do not see how two of our largest and most significant states can be disenfranchised and left out of the process of picking our nominee without raising serious questions about the legitimacy of that nominee," Clinton told reporters, referring to Michigan and Florida.

Florida also had its 210 delegates stripped for voting in January. A proposal for a mail-in vote in the state collapsed earlier this month without support from the party's congressional delegation.

Harold Ickes, who is leading the Clinton campaign's efforts to secure delegates, said the campaign would look at a mail-in option in Michigan with the failure of the primary bill.

"Assuming there is not a legislatively required rerun primary, we would seriously entertain the possibility of a party run, mail-in ballot," he said in an interview before the Senate adjourned.

Ickes said there had been no communication between the Obama and Clinton campaigns about how to settle the matter.

As the Michigan plan died, Obama met Michigan resident Jeff Lynch during a campaign stop at a sports bar in Charleston, W.Va., Thursday.

"When am I going to get to vote for you in Michigan?" asked Lynch, of Mount Pleasant, Mich.

"Probably in the general election," Obama replied. "A redo vote is very complicated."

___

Associated Press writers Kathy Barks Hoffman in Lansing, Mich., Charles Babington in Terre Haute, Ind., Beth Fouhy in New York and Matt Apuzzo in Charleston, W.Va., contributed to this report.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Hillary can be named nominee if she wins 20 point victory in Pennsylvania, all unpledged superdelegates go to Hillary and 25% of Obama's superdelegates switch sides due to a popular outcry fabricated by the media.

[clambake]

Obama is the most powerful democrat ever. He put's Dick Cheney to shame

come on peewee, you know he's not the reason.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

PeeWee is reaching Clandestino lows.

[boutons_]

It's not Obama's fault. It the fault of FL and MI for not playing by the DNC rules, which were intensively and clearly negotiated in 2007 and then broken by FL and MI.

Obama's afraid of nothing. He knows he's way ahead. His playing by rules, allied with the DNC, is quite a change from 7 years of dubya's law-ignoring "signing statements".

It's Hillary who is panicking, squirming, clawing and scratching, afraid her earlier inevitability is slipping through her hands. In fact, it's ova and Hillary should quit and help Obama and the party.

You know if the situation were reversed, Hillary would have at least the same position as Obama, while smearing and dirty-tricking to maintain it. There is a real difference between Obama and Hillary personally.

[MannyIsGod]

Here's a tool for you to use to come up with your scenario Pee Wee

http://www.slate.com/id/2185278/

[Don Quixote]

I thought the Democratic mantra, one of them anyway, was "every vote should count." (As often as possible).

That's what they've said in the past, anyway.

[some_user86]

I think the Republicans did it best. Penalize the states that went early by halving their delegates, but still count the primary results. The DNC fucked up.

[Nbadan]

Wouldn't of mattered anyway because Republicans aren't proportional like Democrats...every vote should count, but when you vote for a candidate because you think she's beatable in Nov., thats voter fraud...

[Nbadan]

Here Pee Wee.....

Party Statement on Primary Situation
Dear Florida Democrats,


For a year now, the Florida Democratic Party has tried to comply with the Delegate Selection Rules of the Democratic National Committee.

We researched every potential alternative process - from caucuses to county conventions to mail-in elections - but no plan could come anywhere close to being viable in Florida.

We made a detailed case to the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, but we were denied.

Our Democratic legislators in Tallahassee tried to set the Florida primary on Feb. 5, instead of Jan. 29, but of course, their proposed amendment to House Bill 537 was greeted with laughter and derision from the Republicans who control the state government.

Does '537' ring a bell? It should. It's the number of votes that separated Texas Gov. George W. Bush and Vice President Al Gore in Florida in 2000.

It's the number that sent this country and this world in a terrible direction.

We can't let 537 - or the Republicans - determine our future again.

President Bush plans to stop in Florida tomorrow to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Republican National Committee's efforts to elect his successor in November.

The last thing America needs is a third Bush term. Despite the widespread anxiety that working families feel, not to mention the broad agreement among economists that we are in a recession, President Bush and John McCain blindly believe that the economy is strong.

And let me remind you that John McCain endorsed President Bush's decision to deny health care to thousands of Florida children by vetoing an expansion of the successful SCHIP program. McCain also promises to jeopardize the financial security of Florida seniors by privatizing Social Security. He continually threatens to push Florida's military families to the brink by keeping American troops in Iraq for "100 years" or more.

This is why we are Democrats, and this is why we must stick together, no matter where this ongoing delegate debate takes us.

Last week, the Florida Democratic Party laid out the only existing way that we can comply with DNC Rules - a statewide revote run by the Party - and asked for input.

Thousands of people responded. We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again.

So we won't.

A party-run primary or caucus has been ruled out, and it's simply not possible for the state to hold another election, even if the Party were to pay for it. Republican Speaker of the Florida House Marco Rubio refuses to even consider that option. Florida is finally moving to paper ballots, which is a good thing, but it means that at least 15 counties do not have the capacity to handle a major election before the June 10th DNC primary deadline.

This doesn't mean that Democrats are giving up on Florida voters. It means that a solution will have to come from the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, which is scheduled to meet again in April.

When this committee stripped us of 100% of our delegates last year, some members summed up their reasoning by saying, "The rules are the rules." Unfortunately, the rules did not apply to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina when they, too, violated the DNC calendar by moving from their assigned dates.

As the late great Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, "We must adjust our ideas to the facts of today... Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are."

The Florida Democratic Party has stuck to its principles throughout this debate. We've remained open-minded while never wavering from our commitment to an open and fair election that would allow all Florida Democrats to participate, whether serving in Iraq, retiring in Boca, studying abroad or entertaining at a theme park.

Another late great President -Abraham Lincoln, a Republican - said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

If Democrats heed this wisdom, we will win in November.

America needs a great president again, but a President McCain will settle for the status quo and carry on the disastrous Bush tradition.

President Clinton or President Obama will make history and lead this nation in a new direction.

Let's remember this as the delegate debate continues. We must stick together as Democrats. The stakes are too high and the opportunities too great.

I will keep you posted on any major developments. Thank you for your concern and your commitment.

Sincerely,

Congresswoman Karen L. Thurman
Chair, Florida Democratic Party
Link (http://www.fladems.com/)

...there you have it - straight from the horses mouth...

[Wild Cobra]

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here Dan, but the amendment putting the early primary was introduced by a democrat, voted in the bill, and the bill was passed 115 to 1!

Don't blame anyone here but the democrats. Were the republicans suppose to stop the legislation?

[Nbadan]

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here Dan, but the amendment putting the early primary was introduced by a democrat, voted in the bill, and the bill was passed 115 to 1!

Don't take my word for it, take the Florida Democratic Party Chair's word....the democrats tried to push the date back to a DNC acceptable date, but the GOP legislature laughed....

[Wild Cobra]

Don't take my word for it, take the Florida Democratic Party Chair's word....the democrats tried to push the date back to a DNC acceptable date, but the GOP legislature laughed....
I'm not saying that part isn't true. I question your sincerity of the term "laugh" but that's it. They already voted for the January date, then wanted to change it? I can make a guess that the republican leadership felt "you guys fucked with us long enough, why should we help you."

But...

Maybe there was no retribution. Consider this:

1) How many other issues were on the table?

2) How much time left before recess?

3) How much planning was already in play that would cost ANY more money to change the date? If so, who should pay for it?

3a) Were ballots already printed?

3b) Were voters pamphlets already printed and mailed?

3c) Were voting locations already starting to be staged?

If you can answer all those questions, I still have more. Any unanswered valid question, or if any answer that would cost more money or waste time allotted for other legislation and I will say the GOP was right to laugh.

As for the link. Why didn't you provide the right link:

HERE IS THE RIGHT LINK! (http://www.fladems.com/content/w/party_statement_on_primary_situation)

I have a few thoughts from what I heard:

Now if you listen to the exchange, it is funny... deserved laughter... The democrats are asking for the republicans to help keep the DNC from punishing them!

The democrats have to audacity to blame the republicans, then ask them to change the date? They expect help after pissing on the republicans?

They requested the January date, the republicans help them, then they blame the republicans and expect help?

Audio link:

Exchange on Florida house floor (http://www.dangelber.com/audio/RepGelberexchangewithRepRivera3May2007.wma)

[peewee's lovechild]

come on peewee, you know he's not the reason.

When the hell did I write that?

If you want to continue this as a serious discussion, we can.
But, if you want to bullshit . . . let's do that.

I'm up for it either way.

[peewee's lovechild]

Here's a tool for you to use to come up with your scenario Pee Wee

http://www.slate.com/id/2185278/


That's assuming that the revote in Michigan and Florida won't happen.

That article is dated 03/19/08, the article I posted was dated 03/20/08.

According to the AP and CNN, the DNC and Michigan have reached an agreement for a revote but Barack Obama is blocking it.

A revote is going to happen.
Whether you like it or not.

Then we can talk about delegates and what not.

And, if Hillary loses, she loses.
But, as I've already said many times, it's not over yet.

[peewee's lovechild]

It's not Obama's fault. It the fault of FL and MI for not playing by the DNC rules, which were intensively and clearly negotiated in 2007 and then broken by FL and MI.

Obama's afraid of nothing. He knows he's way ahead. His playing by rules, allied with the DNC, is quite a change from 7 years of dubya's law-ignoring "signing statements".

It's Hillary who is panicking, squirming, clawing and scratching, afraid her earlier inevitability is slipping through her hands. In fact, it's ova and Hillary should quit and help Obama and the party.

You know if the situation were reversed, Hillary would have at least the same position as Obama, while smearing and dirty-tricking to maintain it. There is a real difference between Obama and Hillary personally.


Republicans in Florida are to blame.
And, if you don't know about it . . . you don't need to be posting here anymore.

If Obama's not afraid of anything, why block a revote in Michigan?


As for the situation being reversed, you're damn right Hillary would take the same position as Obama. But, Obama would be doing the exact same thing Hillary is doing.

They're both politicians.

[peewee's lovechild]

...there you have it - straight from the horses mouth...


Hey idiot, that's Florida.
We're talking about Michigan.

Florida is a completely different monster.

[MannyIsGod]

That's assuming that the revote in Michigan and Florida won't happen.

That article is dated 03/19/08, the article I posted was dated 03/20/08.

According to the AP and CNN, the DNC and Michigan have reached an agreement for a revote but Barack Obama is blocking it.

A revote is going to happen.
Whether you like it or not.

Then we can talk about delegates and what not.

And, if Hillary loses, she loses.
But, as I've already said many times, it's not over yet.Look dude, I'm not sure why I waste so much time on you but reread what I posted. I said "here is a tool for you to use". Did you even bother to look at what it was? The article is dated? That assumes? Uh, WTF?

It isn't an article. It is a link to a calculator. They update the top portion like a blog at times, but that is not the reason I sent you to the page. Use the calculator at the bottom with the remaining states to see what kind of margains Hilary needs to win each state by in order to close the gap in pledged delegates. Then once you are done with that and you have a delegate total, breakdown how she needs to win the remaining supers to win the nomination. I'm having to explain this to you time and time again and when I get you a damn calculator to use to do this you don't even bother reading the page and actually taking a look at it but you assume its some kind of article and spew the same bullshit you've spewed throughout this thread.

You work for a library? Then take the time to fucking read what I link.

[MannyIsGod]

That's assuming that the revote in Michigan and Florida won't happen.

That article is dated 03/19/08, the article I posted was dated 03/20/08.

According to the AP and CNN, the DNC and Michigan have reached an agreement for a revote but Barack Obama is blocking it.

A revote is going to happen.
Whether you like it or not.

Then we can talk about delegates and what not.

And, if Hillary loses, she loses.
But, as I've already said many times, it's not over yet.Also read your own articles content as well. It states when the deadline was. Michigan is about as dead as Florida. I dare you to blame this on Obama. Tell me its his fault. I dare you.

[peewee's lovechild]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/20/AR2008032003526.html

Washigton Post article that came out today.

The Michigan revote porposal is dead as of late yesterday.
Obama's campaign wanted an even split of delegates.

[MannyIsGod]

bump

[DarkReign]

You're not getting it.

The DNC and the state have already agreed on a revote.

Obama is blocking it.

This race is between himself and Hillary.
Those are the choices for the revote.

What's the problem here?

No they havent. The Michigan Senate has already stated "it isnt happening". The majority leader wont even allow the proposal to be voted on.

Its dead in Michigan, regardless of what either candidate wants at this point.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080321/POLITICS01/803210386

[peewee's lovechild]

No they havent. The Michigan Senate has already stated "it isnt happening". The majority leader wont even allow the proposal to be voted on.

Its dead in Michigan, regardless of what either candidate wants at this point.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080321/POLITICS01/803210386

Yea, I saw that.
It happened late yesterday.

[DarkReign]

Obama is the not blocking anything in Michigan.

Nor is Hillary. Maybe Hillary wants it more than Obama, I wouldnt argue that.

But it doesnt mean fuck-all. Its dead in Michigan due to the Michigan Senate..

REPEAT

Dead in Michigan due to the Michigan Senate.